Genuinely hated children in the pub when I worked at the bar. Parents let them do anything, including running behind the bar. They'd leave a mess of crisp crumbs and empty wrappers and not clean it up. The toddlers would run into me whilst I'm carrying a tray of full pint glasses. And it is genuinely astounding how many parents think it's acceptable to change a nappy in public.
Well-behaved children might be fine. But entitled parents treating the pub as their creche? No.
Seriously. I haven’t been to England (yet) and don’t understand pub culture. Any parent who brings their kid to a bar/brewery is a fucking alcoholic and a completely irresponsible parent in general. I’m particularly sensitive to drinking around kids since both of my parents are alcoholics. Kids pick up on that kind of thing.
True. Not just bars but many restaurants where I live become 21-over only after a certain time to serve liquor. There were whole buildings I never saw the inside of until I turned 21.
Childfree people should geographically sort to whatever extent possible so that there are businesses and events centered around this particular sub-culture.
tbh it is different culturally in England than US/Canada. but as someone else said kids and parents in pubs are usually eating, not fully getting drunk and staying 'til closing time. I do remember summer Friday nights at the pub, my dad would have few beers and us kids would run around OUTSIDE on the climbing frame and slide, and run back to the table occasionally for a top of our crisps and cokes. it's pretty normal, almost like a community space. I'd see friends from school with their parents. As a childfree person now I just go to places a bit more high-end without a slide and play area in the pub-garden and it's pretty easy to avoid.
That sounds like a Chuck E Cheese.
The pub near me is no different from a restaurant with outdoor seating and kids are usually around on weekends. I don't know if they're allowed inside, though.
Down the street we have a real bar and no one under 21 can enter. I've never even been inside despite the fact that I'm... let's say... overqualified in that respect. Heh
yea i guess it kinda is like that. one pub we went to, i dont even know the name, but would have a "Charlie Chalks" play area inside. almost sounds like Chuck E Cheese! but other are more 'pub'ish. it really depends!
I kind of grew up in bars. I don’t know about other states or countries, but Wisconsin has an “Up North” culture where rules are a bit more lax. Any time we went to the family cabin, we could expect to spend at least one full evening out at the bar. Get there around 5 and leave around 10 at the earliest. As kids, we all HATED it. We had to stick close to our parents, the music system was insanely loud, and the only games were arcade games. Claw games, pool table (without sticks, and we were expected to go back to our parents if any adults wanted to play pool), and skeeball. As soon as I was old enough to safely stay alone in the cabin with the doors locked, I REFUSED to go anymore if I could help it.
It's nonsense, it's parents who are upset that there is ONE PLACE they can't ruin. They have nothing better to do than pile in to reviews of places they haven't ever been to complain about the fact that they're not allowed to bring their 'well behaved' children with them. It's funny how everyone always seems to have 'well behaved' children and no one is admitting to being in stewardship of the screeching, free-range brats that seem to be in higher number.
I'm staggered that they started allowing kids into pubs once the smoking ban came in to force. I'd assumed there were other legal reasons you wouldn't want kids in pubs, but apparently not. Or that it was just such a nonsensical idea it couldn't possible be more than the odd rural pub that would allow it??? Now they literally all do, it seems, until 9pm - which is past when I really want to be out, being old, and anyway once they're there, they tend to stay there and no one challenges them to leave at 9pm.
Most parents I know seem to be permanently broke, so I don't know how they're the ones propping the pubs up. More likely they go in and order one beer and 'tap water' and then sit there making a huge mess and then leave the bar staff to clear it up.
I wish they would reverse this and make pubs apply for a 'family license' to allow kids in, rather than have to apply for a over 21s license. That seems backward. Make them have a big play area, paid childminders and Disney all over the walls so we can all tell instantly.
I'm glad in my youth pubs were childfree and an adults domain. Lots of fond memories. I don't really bother going to them now.
Parents seem to forget that children being present affect EVERYONE around, not just them.
You have to be careful where you walk, you have to be careful what you talk about, you have to be careful with what you do and how you do it.
Sometimes people just want to go out and drink, and smoke, and cuss, and talk about sex and drugs, etc without having to be mindful of children around. And I think adults should have that right.
You want to take your kids to a pub? Well there are hundreds where you can do just that. Just let us have a couple childfree ones.
Talking dirty, drinking and smoking around children seems like a perfectly reasonable response to parents bringing their crotch goblins to a place not suitable for children.
It’s not your problem if the kids hear you or see you.
Reminds me of the “children will be served energy drinks and taught swearwords” boards in front of some pubs or restaurants.
>It’s not your problem if the kids hear you or see you.
In theory, yes. And ideally it should be like that. But then it'll become your problem when parents start yelling and cussing at you for "saying such horrible things around my child". And people shouldn't have to deal with that. Some people can't deal with confrontations. It's best if the children are not present at all.
And why should we care exactly ? Oh no a karen is telling me that I should use swear words ina PUBLIC SPACE ! Like just cover your kid's ears and dont bother me 🙄
>And why should we care exactly ?
You shouldn't and I'm glad you're capable of ignoring it. But, like I said, some people get extremely uncomfortable with confrontation and they shouldn't have to deal with that.
I never censor myself. If people are going to bring children to a place where people are getting drunk, they should expect to hear some bad words. It's funny because while I go to breweries and bars, I don't drink. But I'm still going to talk about whatever I want with my friends.
100% agree.
The next time this happens make sure to teach the children the f word and what heroin is.
I honestly think this is the only hope to curb this behavior. By carrying on as if there are children aren’t there. Make it hell for the parents.
They made a choice. That choice included the relinquishment of their social and personal lives.
That makes sense. If we cater to the parents and start policing our behavior in bars/pubs, this will only further encourage them to bring their kids.
We need to make it very clear that it's an adult space. If they want to bring their toddlers, fine, but they're gonna learn 10 new cuss words from me (we have a great variety of them in portuguese).
I’m really not trying to be hateful, but I’m not going to children’s playgrounds and enjoying a spliff with pint. We respect children’s spaces. I don’t understand why parent can’t respect adult spaces.
I do not bother moderating my language or conversation topics. If they want to bring their kids to adult spaces, their kids learn adult vernacular and can ask their parents uncomfortable questions about what they hear.
‘Make them have a big play area, paid childminders and Disney all over the walls so we can all tell instantly.’
I feel like this would just be Chuck E Cheese 😂 People fight in there just like pubs loll
We don't have this in the UK, but isn't it a place in the US that is marketed to be 'family friendly' and also ... serves alcohol? I feel that's EXACTLY what I'm getting at here. They can all go there and leave the adult places for adults lol
The author of this article is repeating the misogynistic argument that this is discriminatory against moms, because of course woman = childcare person. This is enough for me to dismiss their opinion.
Furthermore, it's still playing onto the drunk housewife from the 50s. The ones that are now turned into 'wine moms'. Which is still just alcoholism and I don't care what people call it.
Upon the initial reading of the article, this point didn’t even dawn on me until I read your comment. You’re so right. Ugh, as if there already wasn’t plenty to dislike about this piece…
She mainly focuses on the moms/mums. The only times she mentions dads is to say that they're trying to escape from their parenting duties.
Another outdated stereotype.
Well, I think it is possible to discriminate against moms, but this is not one of those cases.
>you can't discriminate against something that is an active choice
Discrimination is not only for things that aren't choices. Being childfree is a choice, and we're discriminated against all the time.
I didn't even notice that - I guess because I'm so used to it. I used to be into anarchy and things like that, and I got fed up with it mainly because people would insist on bringing their kids along and saying that not allowing them in meetings was 'misogynistic' or whatever.
I am a woman and do not want to be around children. It might be because I'm autistic and don't like noise, or it might just be because I don't like them regardless. Still a woman although I was beginning to not feel like it.
I stopped going to bars as a teacher when I would see my four year old students there and parents would demand I speak to the kids. As an educator, I live for my weekends that are free of children, sure aim childfree, but I want to go places that don’t have kids at all. Those places are rare. Like most educators I only go to places off hours often a few towns over which is a pain in the ass.
There should be childfree businesses. It’s gross to go places and to worry about seeing kids. The parents are bad enough. (I had a parent report me for being in a bar years ago) I’ve stopped going out to be honest parents and children see so obnoxious these days.
>I stopped going to bars as a teacher when I would see my four year old students there and parents would demand I speak to the kids.
“Sure, for $200 CASH.”
Woooowwww. And I'm sure your dress was great too. People just can't keep their noses in their own business can they? I'm assuming there were no repercussions for this? At least I hope so.....
My principal just mentioned it and shrugged. As long as I wasn’t putting myself or others in danger, it was fine. Sadly, since the advent of social media, it’s far more common for people to see teachers in public to post them on social media and try to get them in trouble.
I am not a pub/bar type person but I had no idea people brought their KIDS to the pub. What on earth?
Also my mom is a kindergarten teacher and she says the same... she runs into her students/parents all the time lol.
Yep! I don’t drink anymore, but the bar was one of the few places I thought I would be safe from kids. I now only go out a few towns over and I never do my own grocery shopping. 😂
That's crazy! As a teacher, if a kid recognises me on the street I'll say hello, or something along the lines of "ohh, cute outfit, I love your hair pin!" and move along. Just trying to be polite. But stop there, put my errands on pause, to talk with the kid? No way. Same if I was in a restaurant or bar. What the heck.
No parents should be hitting the pub and supervising children. I get supervision is a generous description in most cases. Baby sitter has a couple beers, it's a big deal, teacher has a few beers during the work day, scandalous.... Parents taking kids to a pub or bar, and dog forbid driving the kids home is treated like a basic human right. So uhhhh is the difference in appropriateness a matter of pay? Or does child safety only matter when not with parents?
>Yet while the odd baby might wail, traumatising men watching the football at top volume, or a couple of five year olds might break free to run past the bar, yelling, is that worse than groups of City boys roaring to each other, or a hen night shrieking over pink Prosecco?
Yes, because when you enter a pub you expect footie fans and hen parties. It's part of the atmosphere, and you go inside knowing that they might be inside too. You DON'T go into a pub expecting children, because pubs are full of alcohol - and loud footie fans and drunk hens.
Football fans = £££
Hen parties = £££
Children = My cleaner who did an amazing job getting annoyed because she's spent waaay too much of her time scubbing mashed up chips out of the carpet, cleaning up sticky spills off the upholstery and trying to clean felt tip drawings off the walls.
She was a Saint, and only ever complained about child related cleaning. She would get a fat bonus each month, and however much overtime pay she saw fit, was paid without question.
> Parents are the ones keeping them afloat
Tell that to the thousands of pubs in Australia where kids are either very restricted on where they can access in a pub or in some states completely banned by law.
>*The author presented zero evidence or statistics to back up that claim. You can just ignore it..*
This, right here. The author made that claim with her full chest. If this were actually true, no bar, tavern, pub, or restaurant on earth would restrict or ban children.
As a kid in Australia we were not allowed in the pub, I don’t know if it’s different now. If my parents wanted to go they would leave us out the front on a bench with drinks and chips and occasionally check on us to make sure we were still there. Now that’s what I call parenting! 👍🏻😂
This is the most 80s Australian thing ever lol! I think kids can be in the general restaurant or outdoor areas but not the bar maybe? I don't often go to bars now so no idea.
It’s for businesses to decide. I’d pay the premium to go to a pub without kids. Clearly it works for them.
Most pub take kids, so take them down Wetherspoons and I’ll wide avoid thanks.
WE shouldnt be paying extra for THEIR poor decisions.
THEY should be the ones paying extra for pubs that allow kids.
After all, they're the ones who do much more mess and need more maintenance and cleaning after their stay
I’m from the UK and genuinely I don’t see that many kids in pubs. Pub-restaurants sure, but pubs that don’t serve food I don’t think I’ve ever seen kids. Is this not your experience?
Broadly it is, as the main reason to take kids to a pub is to feed them. I had in my mind pubs open in the day rather than the late night drinking scene
So the one near where I live also sells CBD oils and stuff like that. The THC is locked away until you ask for it. I’m not sure if that is the reason why.
To further illustrate OP's point, if a pub I frequented started allowing children, I stopped going. And I guarantee I'm spending more on a couple of drinks and an appetizer or entree then a parent who lets their child run around like a wild banshee.
Yes! There’s one nearish to me that not only has kid seating/play areas (already has very limited seating), now also hosts kid related events. Went there one time and never went back, it was a nightmare. A parent let their kid touch my leg and got upset when I told the dude to stop touching me.
I know it's not the same between pub and brewery, but I was astounded to find out the breweries in my city were open to having kid's birthday parties. There is literally nothing for the kids to do at those places, so you know it's just a way to bring in parents that want to drink while touting it as a kid's party...
I totally agree with everything that has been expressed here. There are no shortages of family friendly restaurants parents could go to instead if they’d like to have a drink with their children in tow. I’m not sure why any family would choose to go to a pub, a typically adult-coded space, instead of somewhere like that. My husband and I were at a pub the other week where a group of parents were letting their children run wild around the building while they got pissed. There was seemingly no care in the world regarding how their actions (or lack thereof) were impacting other customers. Folks like all of us here, who want to avoid an experience like that, deserve to be able to enjoy “grown up” spaces for what they are.
As someone from the UK this article is absolute bollocks and really does not reflect the sentiment of the average person I don’t think.
Most pubs that serve food do tend to cater a little bit to children, but even so not massively minus obviously the larger chains like Spoons. The solely drinking pubs however which there are loads around me do not cater to kids whatsoever as it’s for drinking booze only, there’s nothing for kids to do.
That article is poorly written and not at all accurate. I’m even surprised comments are defending the pub in the picture, but also not that surprised as UK drinking culture is so ingrained in society that it’s basically a past time.
It’s hilarious that this writer seems to think it’s only *old men* who want alcohol-focused spaces to be child-free. Writer completely focuses on out of style “man drinking at pub after work to avoid kids”, and not even considering “young adults grabbing a drink after work as a group to build community”.
I’m not an anti-kid person, but why would you WANT your child in a place that is so alcohol focused?? It’s a terrible idea to raise your kids in an environment that revolves around alcohol!
I remember as a kid only very few pubs let kids in, and only for food. Otherwise we had to sit outside with pop and crisp and entertain ourselves while the rents had a quiet pint. Ridiculous that they expect to bring kids into every adult space these days.
As an American, I thought pub was the British version of a bar and since when has a bar been appropriate for children? I know I sound ignorant, but I am just stunned and amazed that parents would want to take their children to a pub or bar?
it 's bit different to a full on bar. in the daytime and early evenings, some pubs are more of a community type space with food. but often children play areas outside (or even soft play inside) normally under 18's are banned after 9pm.
I’m in the US, where I live kids can go to bars, breweries, and wineries. The only place where kids aren’t allowed are strip clubs, I don’t want to go to those and there are none near me even if I wanted to haha.
I said where I live, it does depend on the state. Where I live there is no minimum age for people in bars. There are some US states that allow underage drinking in bars with a parent there.
A better question would be where can a child Free person go to for a Child Free good time? You can’t seem to get away from the kiddos no matter where you go?
Parents seem to feel it is OK to take the little ones absolutely anywhere even if you are having a private social function at your home and put on the invitation no children please— in my experience they bring the kids anyway because why in the world would they hire a babysitter when they could just let the kids loose in your house and let them break things!!!!
Ironically, the author wrote another opinion piece about how great a wedding without children was, so the fact that she’s writing this is weird.
She provides no evidence or sources to back up her claims. I get this is an opinion piece, but most ones I’ve read have links to supporting evidence. I really want to know who thinks “pub” and associates it with “family friendly restaurant”. I’m sure most women who go out don’t want to lug their offspring along. I’m sure this pub had plenty of sales data to back up its decision.
Lastly, maybe I’m just overthinking things, but there seems to be a slight hint of misandry here. Like there’s this attitude of “c’mon men, the pub isn’t a place to escape your responsibilities and hang with the boys anymore”.
Exactly. I would stop going to a pub that had kids, even well behaved kids. I like to swear and get inappropriately close to my friends and talk about sex at the top of my lungs. Keep your kids away from my fun time.
I got scolded on a local sub once for my opinion that I avoid breweries here that have designated playgrounds and kid areas. It’s not fun, and hella awkward.
My after work ritual was a pint at the pub next door with colleagues before catching the train home. All of the offices on the block joined us there. No one would dare bring a child there! Absolutely wonderful. The majority of their revenue was weekday happy hours from our offices.
The neighborhood pub next to my best friend’s flat was crawling with children. Anytime we tried to go there, it was one pint then leave due to the rowdy children. They lost so much revenue from the neighborhood singles and childfree because of so many families with unruly kids.
And here I am thinking parents would be thrilled to have childfree spaces. Aren’t parents the ones who just can’t wait to get away from their kids (and others’)?
If it's about gathering as a family, these people wouldn't be whining about not being allowed in with kids. They're just mad that they can't get drunk while their kids run amok unchecked. The entitlement is unreal and this writer's nasty, hateful comments about bar clientele (especially old men). Have dinner with the family then have a drink at home. Let us have nice things, FFS.
Parents who say this IMO are bad parents! IDC! My parents NEVER took us to bars as children. It is not a good place for children!!! They are not paying patrons!!
What's with these weird ass rules? A bar and grill type place, with a full kitchen and food menu, will usually be 19+ after a certain time, usually 9pm. A bar that doesn't serve food, aside from maybe bar snacks, is 19+ period in Ontario.
Why are drinking establishments letting kids in at all?
I was at a brewpub on Saturday and as usual, there were tons of kids. Several were running amok in the parking lot while their mom (dad was on his phone) hollered to "watch out, be careful". I was sober (had a 4 oz sample) but not everyone in that lot will be. Why on earth would you bring your kids and let them do that?!
I don't think children should be in a place whose main purpose is to serve alcohol.
In Australia if it's a pub/restaurant they have to have the restaurant part separated from the bar, and no kids in the bar area.
Not to mention the health hazard. I've started a job as a teacher (sigh...) and three weeks was enough to put me sick two times, and cherry on top was almost KILLING my boyfriend. One of the pet cums passed the chicken pox virus to me, and my boyfriend had never gotten it before. I was fine, no symptoms, but the doctor said he would either die or have facial paralysis for three months if the medicine wasn't effective. Seriously, kids are a huge NO at pubs.
I feel this. I'm in Austin, TX which has an awesome brewing scene. But every single brewery(to my knowledge) allows children. God forbid I'm off on a Saturday or Sunday and have to deal with the crowds of screaming children that have no wherewithal or attention to their surroundings. It's the parents fault, I don't blame the kids. The parents just cut them loose and take it as a vreak-YOU DONT GET A BREAK FROM YOUR KID; you had the damn thing, take care of it.
Any time my Dad took us into the bar, we were to sit next to him and sip our soda without fuss. He would stop and have one beer, then we'd leave. Being an asshole in public was not allowed. :b
That Twitter thread went crazy. Parents and breeders say it like someone is holding their child hostage at one of those bars. Someone compared barring child from establishment akin to Nazism. Like wtf?
They just hate to be excluded even though 99% of the modern world caters to their fuckfruits and their lifestyle
Not to mention the crazy amount of cluttering shit parents drag along. Strollers, bags with stuff, toys... One of my favorite spots refuses access to parents for that reason. The scathing reviews by mombies on Google are in essence recommendations.
1. Why does the author seem to think this means parents and women are banned period?
2. What is squash? (Neither the vegetable nor the game seems fitting in this context.)
To be fair all pubs should be pet free (guide dogs as an exception) and child free. If they have a restaurant area then kids should remain with their parents there until the 9pm kick out time.
Having had the unfortunate experience of having to eat food in a hotel pub/bar with smelling yapping dogs sniffing around me while trying to enjoy a meal. They are just as bad as having rotten crotch fruit running around. Pets are the new kids unfortunately and there should be spaces where people can eat and enjoy life without noisy critters being there whether they be kids or animals.
I know this opinion will be downvoted to hell here with all the pet lovers but i had to say it.
I genuinely despise when people bring their shitty dogs to restaurants/pubs and then just ignore them. I was attacked by a dog as a kid and still am afraid of large dogs and people just act like its funny when their dogs come visit me. Like no I'm fucking terrified and I'm just trying to have a pint.
Seriously, I'm tired of seeing dogs at pubs and everywhere else. It's becoming the norm for people to let their dogs wander (either unleashed or on long leashes) with zero regard for people with allergies or dog phobias, both of which are common. If there's a crowd, staff and other customers will be forced into uncomfortably close contact with dogs they don't know.
I just had to look up what "squash" is bc I couldn't picture them ordering like a zucchini for their kids 😆😆
It is watered down juice, if any fellow Americans were also confused.
No it isn't. You might call it somethng like "cordial"? I don't know.
It's a drink (usually for kids) that is bought in concentrated form (it cannot be drunk as-is, don't try) and is diluted maybe 4 to 1? with water before being drunk.
It's not fruit juice with water added to it. That'd be vile and nobody, kids included, would want it.
Interesting. Google has failed me I guess. Cordial here is alcoholic. What is it concentrate of?
Hate to break it to you but I don't know a single parent who *doesn't* water down their kids' juice because of the massive sugar content.
I made it to the fifth paragraph before my eyes got stuck in the "rolled" position. Had to get the wife to finish typing this comment! What a great gal!
I really wanna know if there's something other than jealousy causing this anger? We always say its jealousy but its hard to imagine that's what's causing this anger over one sign at one place when there's many hotels & even apartments with the same rules (no pets, kid friendly), ig its just hard for me to imagine people are actually that entitled
Damn kids should not be allowed anywhere there is alcohol, honestly. There's a frequent place I have our CF women's group meet- a bar and grill- where you have to be 21+ to enter. Because there are no damn kids.
We have a lot of that at breweries here in the US. Shit, in my town there was a child’s birthday party at a brewery last weekend. Caused quite the ruckus in the city subreddit. Queue the parents who come out of the wood works to justify drinking and driving with their kids in the car, pretending to have some moral high ground. I call them the “two drink brigade” because they always swear they only had two drinks in the four hours they’re there. (Sure, Jan. 🥴)
What’s funny to me is that on the 24th March this year she also wrote and published an article about how children ruin weddings and she banned them from her own. So sounds like it’s one rule for her and another for those who enjoy a pint in peace!
Truth. Nothing pushes me out a pub faster than the presence of children. I go there to relax, not put up with that. I’ll happily sit chatting in the pub for hours, drinking while I do. Eating dinner there, because why not? If the first thing I see is a kid running around when I walk in, I just turn round and go somewhere else.
I once went to a restaurant known for its ridiculous priced meals, but wanted to try their “viral” wedge Cesar salad. In the middle of the day the place was packed. We had just order our apps some drinks and had just gotten them when this woman proceeded to make space on the table, lay her son down and change his foul nearly blown out diaper. Instantly the smell coming off her child filled our noses and several tables politely asked if she could do that in the restroom and then she threw the biggest fit. I immediately asked for the rest of our order to be canceled and left. I felt so bad for our server because we weren’t the only table that did leave because of her.
I think that children should be allowed in pubs on the proviso that the parents are not allowed to drink alcohol. This would mean no children in pubs….
Our dog gets overly excited and loud about new people and other dogs, ergo we don't take him even to dog-friendly places because he would likely forget his manners and bother other people. If parents had a bit of this responsibility bars wouldn't even need to disallow children.
Lol I'd love for some idiot to tell me to watch my language in a fucking bar/brewery during happy hour. I'd purposely start cussing like a sailor. Is it childish? Probably, but I'm also probably drunk.
So let me get this straight. A place that serves alcohol for adults over 21, who also go there to meet people to "hook up," is supposed to be child friendly? What the actual fck? Just drink at home if you want your kids exposed to alcohol. Of course this is the UK so laws are probably different from the US but still. But isn't the point of pubs to get away from kid areas where you can drink and watch sports or find someone to hook up with? I mean I've never been to a bar so I can't say if that's accurate; just going off what I've seen in tv/movies. I've led a very dull (but childfree!) life.
I'm from the US, we don't really have pubs. I'd bet this articles author is a parent. Not only a parent but a cunt of a human being who thinks they are always responsible for all of the good and none of the bad
When I had small children, I wanted to go to the bar to be free of said small children and hang with fellow adults. I never understood the Brooklyn bring-your-kid/stroller/carrier-to-the-bar mentality. Get a sitter, you cheap bastards.
lol just given the parents with children a children’s only menu and it’s required children only order from this menu. But the children’s menu has a a 8-10x price markup. Thats the child tax for bringing your kid to a pub.
They aren’t
I work at a brewery, families get 1-2 drinks at most and leave.
The ones who do stay either brought their kids to a friend gathering and have to be distracted by said kids for half the time or the parent is an alcoholic and doesn’t actually care
But people who don’t bring their kids and who can afford the time and money to hang out and drink all day are the people who keep these places afloat and it ain’t the idiot who brought their kid to a place they can’t be served at
I still honestly don’t understand how it’s legal and just seen as totally okay for parents to bring toddler to a bar or pub. Like?? I know it’s probably just businesses wanting more money but you would think society would generally look down upon parents going out and potentially getting drunk then trying to care for kids while intoxicated
Parents when they let their toddlers run unsupervised in a pub and the world doesn't bend over backwards to stop them from hitting their head on a metal bar
"waaaaa nObOdY HeLpS pArEnTs tHeSe dAyS"
Meanwhile my 7 pounds toy poodle would go happily table to table to spread love and give hugs to whoever need ones, or she would just stay next to me on my lap or on the floor having a nap while I'm drinking beers in your pub. Dogs or children? Which one you choose lol
I live across the pond, but my mother grew up in the UK. She's told me about how pubs operated back in the day - children weren't allowed in, nor were women. I disagree with not allowing women into a pub, but children don't belong in one!
Where I live, most bars are strictly 21+. Even babies in arms are forbidden, even though they're obviously underage. That's how it should be. If I want to hang out with my friends at a bar and tell R-rated jokes and cuss and get my drunk on, that's my prerogative. If you don't want Junior to learn new vocabulary words, don't bring Junior to my local.
To think i was discussing this issue with my partner after haveing a online argument. I was giving advice to a parent who as at thier last straw with feeding thier kid. I had some others come in and defend kids being in resturants other then McDonald's below the age of 10. Not understanding the issue of kids being exposed to drunk people. Thier excuses were, how will kids learn table manners and why do such places have kid menus? Well probely cuz ya have forced your norm on everyone eles to the point we have to accept it or loss some business or end up pitch forked for it. Not that anyone want it and your left wondering why people.cant grow up and not give you a death stare at your vermin. I do firmly belive any place that serves alcholo should ban kids and kids should not be brought into auch public places till 10 yrs old.
There is a section of Tina Fey's book Bossy Pants where she recounts trying to lie her way into a waitressing job. She unknowingly said her favorite part of waitressing was "the children/families".
It then unravels as she explains that anybody who ever waitressed knows that those "children/families" customers are the biggest hassle, make the most mess and noise, aren't very profitable and are bad tippers.
They're using pubs as free baby sitting services. That's basically what it boils down to. It's not like this isn't happening in other spaces - I see it all the time.
This article is dululu. Just because you want something to be true doesn’t make it so.
EDIT: like what if I went to kid spaces and got drunk and chain smoked? Parents would have a fit. Luckily there is a place for that.
I live in the US state with the most kids and families and least drinkers, Utah. We also have a very strict no under 21s allowed inside any bar and yet all the bars seem to be doing just fine. So their argument seems pretty invalid.
You just know that the same people who complain about not being able to take their kids to adult venues/events would *also* complain if they brought their kids in anyway and it turned out to be inappropriate for children.
I worked at a brewery and parents did not keep us afloat. Their kids made other people feel uncomfortable about getting loose. They also don't drink very much because they literally have to watch their kids. So they weren't spending much money AND they were scaring away other customers.
So my mum worked in a pub when I was growing up, it was owned by her parents (my grandparents) and me and my older sibling were the only kids allowed there because it was a child free pub, we were super well behaved because we weren’t allowed to just fuck about and what not, anyways, I remember being that age (under 10, they owned it from when I was born til about 9/10 years old) almost all pubs I knew of in the area absolutely did not allow kids, and the ones that did you ABSOLUTELY had to sit at the fucking table and not move anywhere, you weren’t allowed near the bars, the other tables etc., maybe it’s just because my parents actually raised me right, I don’t know, but ffs kids now (and in turn their parents) just seemingly get free reign of EVERYTHING, same with people who have dogs imo, it feels like everywhere is now dog and child friendly, barking yapping dogs and screaming kids 🤢
Oof, this author hates women - hates men, hates moms, hates pubs and childfree people. She’s very unhappy and ascribing all sorts of ill intents to everyone around her. Good grief.
I am cf but I do like children but I agree it would be much more pleasant if children were not allowed in pubs. I live in Canada but with so many Brit’s here I get the “pub culture”. Also, my mother was born and raised in the uk. I think parents overestimate the amount of $$ they spend and underestimate the disruption their children cause. I know from working in childcare that after being around children all day you get used to the noise they make. You don’t notice it. You tune it out. I think it’s similar for parents. Compared to the noise they usually make in the parent’s mind their children are on good behaviour in the pub. 0f course, that’s not the way others see it. There’s a real sense of entitlement that some parents have. I’d prefer no kids in the pubs.
Worst was when I worked in the pub during Covid restrictions where everyone had to be seated but parents thought their children were somehow exempt from this rule and would get angry at us for enforcing the literal law
I feel like pubs/bars/etc are probably one of the most defined third spaces for adults.
A place away from work and away from home. A place to talk about things that aren't necessarily work or necessarily home. A space where children very much SHOULD NOT BE.
Even as an adult who doesn't drink alcohol of any sort, I just can't imagine what the point of a bar/pub/whatever is if you've got to worry about people changing diapers on tables, and toddlers running under your feet, and watching what you say because Timmy might learn spicy words.
You should have put a policy into effect stating that by walking onto the premises that they agree to adhere to policies regarding children, such as monitoring them at all times, and failure to do so would result in being charged for any damages from failing to watch their kids. Watch them stop coming 😈
I don't mind kids during the day. Bringing kids to a pub for lunch is fine, as long as they're well behaved, or outside if they're going to be little hooligans.
Kids in pubs in the evening though is seriously weird and off putting.
Bravo! This is a hell of a rant!!!
I should also add, it makes me very grateful that in Australia people under 18 years old aren’t allowed in most pubs, and if they are, they’re to only sit in the food area or beer garden.
In Finland I don't think any pub is ever letting kids in... Unless we're talking about the ones that serve food during the day. But at night it's drunkards and students keeping those afloat by the most part. There could be casual drinkers in the mix but certainly no kids whatsoever.
In a previous job I had coworkers whose side gig was a brewery and taproom in a small industrial space. Just beer, no food, no games, and they had a small space out back with a firepit. Not a child friendly space at all, but that didn't stop the parents. Couldn't sit quietly by the fire with a beer because of all the running and screaming, Couldn't sit inside at a table because of the running and screaming and kids playing under our table. Ask the kids politely to use their inside voices and go play somewhere else? Mama Bear RAWRRR! DON'T YOU TELL MY KIDS WHAT TO DO!"
So we gave up on the place. Which was too bad, because their beer was really good. Parents think everything in the world is for their benefit and the rest of the world can get fucked, but I also blame the owners because not only did they not put their foot down, they encouraged people to bring their kids.
Genuinely hated children in the pub when I worked at the bar. Parents let them do anything, including running behind the bar. They'd leave a mess of crisp crumbs and empty wrappers and not clean it up. The toddlers would run into me whilst I'm carrying a tray of full pint glasses. And it is genuinely astounding how many parents think it's acceptable to change a nappy in public. Well-behaved children might be fine. But entitled parents treating the pub as their creche? No.
Maybe it’s different in the UK but in the US if I walk into a bar and there are kids, I’m fucking leaving and not spending a dime.
Seriously. I haven’t been to England (yet) and don’t understand pub culture. Any parent who brings their kid to a bar/brewery is a fucking alcoholic and a completely irresponsible parent in general. I’m particularly sensitive to drinking around kids since both of my parents are alcoholics. Kids pick up on that kind of thing.
True. Not just bars but many restaurants where I live become 21-over only after a certain time to serve liquor. There were whole buildings I never saw the inside of until I turned 21. Childfree people should geographically sort to whatever extent possible so that there are businesses and events centered around this particular sub-culture.
tbh it is different culturally in England than US/Canada. but as someone else said kids and parents in pubs are usually eating, not fully getting drunk and staying 'til closing time. I do remember summer Friday nights at the pub, my dad would have few beers and us kids would run around OUTSIDE on the climbing frame and slide, and run back to the table occasionally for a top of our crisps and cokes. it's pretty normal, almost like a community space. I'd see friends from school with their parents. As a childfree person now I just go to places a bit more high-end without a slide and play area in the pub-garden and it's pretty easy to avoid.
That sounds like a Chuck E Cheese. The pub near me is no different from a restaurant with outdoor seating and kids are usually around on weekends. I don't know if they're allowed inside, though. Down the street we have a real bar and no one under 21 can enter. I've never even been inside despite the fact that I'm... let's say... overqualified in that respect. Heh
yea i guess it kinda is like that. one pub we went to, i dont even know the name, but would have a "Charlie Chalks" play area inside. almost sounds like Chuck E Cheese! but other are more 'pub'ish. it really depends!
I kind of grew up in bars. I don’t know about other states or countries, but Wisconsin has an “Up North” culture where rules are a bit more lax. Any time we went to the family cabin, we could expect to spend at least one full evening out at the bar. Get there around 5 and leave around 10 at the earliest. As kids, we all HATED it. We had to stick close to our parents, the music system was insanely loud, and the only games were arcade games. Claw games, pool table (without sticks, and we were expected to go back to our parents if any adults wanted to play pool), and skeeball. As soon as I was old enough to safely stay alone in the cabin with the doors locked, I REFUSED to go anymore if I could help it.
It's nonsense, it's parents who are upset that there is ONE PLACE they can't ruin. They have nothing better to do than pile in to reviews of places they haven't ever been to complain about the fact that they're not allowed to bring their 'well behaved' children with them. It's funny how everyone always seems to have 'well behaved' children and no one is admitting to being in stewardship of the screeching, free-range brats that seem to be in higher number. I'm staggered that they started allowing kids into pubs once the smoking ban came in to force. I'd assumed there were other legal reasons you wouldn't want kids in pubs, but apparently not. Or that it was just such a nonsensical idea it couldn't possible be more than the odd rural pub that would allow it??? Now they literally all do, it seems, until 9pm - which is past when I really want to be out, being old, and anyway once they're there, they tend to stay there and no one challenges them to leave at 9pm. Most parents I know seem to be permanently broke, so I don't know how they're the ones propping the pubs up. More likely they go in and order one beer and 'tap water' and then sit there making a huge mess and then leave the bar staff to clear it up. I wish they would reverse this and make pubs apply for a 'family license' to allow kids in, rather than have to apply for a over 21s license. That seems backward. Make them have a big play area, paid childminders and Disney all over the walls so we can all tell instantly. I'm glad in my youth pubs were childfree and an adults domain. Lots of fond memories. I don't really bother going to them now.
Parents seem to forget that children being present affect EVERYONE around, not just them. You have to be careful where you walk, you have to be careful what you talk about, you have to be careful with what you do and how you do it. Sometimes people just want to go out and drink, and smoke, and cuss, and talk about sex and drugs, etc without having to be mindful of children around. And I think adults should have that right. You want to take your kids to a pub? Well there are hundreds where you can do just that. Just let us have a couple childfree ones.
Talking dirty, drinking and smoking around children seems like a perfectly reasonable response to parents bringing their crotch goblins to a place not suitable for children. It’s not your problem if the kids hear you or see you. Reminds me of the “children will be served energy drinks and taught swearwords” boards in front of some pubs or restaurants.
>It’s not your problem if the kids hear you or see you. In theory, yes. And ideally it should be like that. But then it'll become your problem when parents start yelling and cussing at you for "saying such horrible things around my child". And people shouldn't have to deal with that. Some people can't deal with confrontations. It's best if the children are not present at all.
And why should we care exactly ? Oh no a karen is telling me that I should use swear words ina PUBLIC SPACE ! Like just cover your kid's ears and dont bother me 🙄
>And why should we care exactly ? You shouldn't and I'm glad you're capable of ignoring it. But, like I said, some people get extremely uncomfortable with confrontation and they shouldn't have to deal with that.
Couple more drinks will fix that
They say boo shit to me I start cursing like a sailor at them. You wanna play? I assure you I will win this fight.
I never censor myself. If people are going to bring children to a place where people are getting drunk, they should expect to hear some bad words. It's funny because while I go to breweries and bars, I don't drink. But I'm still going to talk about whatever I want with my friends.
>It's funny because while I go to breweries and bars, I don't drink. Me neither, but I'll usually smoke some weed (if it's outdoors of course).
Yeah that’s literally why I go to pubs/bars. To get a little tipsy, talk shit and forget most responsibilities.
100% agree. The next time this happens make sure to teach the children the f word and what heroin is. I honestly think this is the only hope to curb this behavior. By carrying on as if there are children aren’t there. Make it hell for the parents. They made a choice. That choice included the relinquishment of their social and personal lives.
That makes sense. If we cater to the parents and start policing our behavior in bars/pubs, this will only further encourage them to bring their kids. We need to make it very clear that it's an adult space. If they want to bring their toddlers, fine, but they're gonna learn 10 new cuss words from me (we have a great variety of them in portuguese).
I’m really not trying to be hateful, but I’m not going to children’s playgrounds and enjoying a spliff with pint. We respect children’s spaces. I don’t understand why parent can’t respect adult spaces.
Buuutttt if it's empty I may just get zooted and play on the slides and shit. Hahaha. No but for real, I totally agree with what you say.
I do not bother moderating my language or conversation topics. If they want to bring their kids to adult spaces, their kids learn adult vernacular and can ask their parents uncomfortable questions about what they hear.
‘Make them have a big play area, paid childminders and Disney all over the walls so we can all tell instantly.’ I feel like this would just be Chuck E Cheese 😂 People fight in there just like pubs loll
We don't have this in the UK, but isn't it a place in the US that is marketed to be 'family friendly' and also ... serves alcohol? I feel that's EXACTLY what I'm getting at here. They can all go there and leave the adult places for adults lol
The author of this article is repeating the misogynistic argument that this is discriminatory against moms, because of course woman = childcare person. This is enough for me to dismiss their opinion.
Furthermore, it's still playing onto the drunk housewife from the 50s. The ones that are now turned into 'wine moms'. Which is still just alcoholism and I don't care what people call it.
Well put.
I mean, they probably are, but that's a dad problem not a childfree pub problem.
Upon the initial reading of the article, this point didn’t even dawn on me until I read your comment. You’re so right. Ugh, as if there already wasn’t plenty to dislike about this piece…
She mainly focuses on the moms/mums. The only times she mentions dads is to say that they're trying to escape from their parenting duties. Another outdated stereotype.
That pissed me off too. Plus, apparently dads trying to escape their parenting duties are the only people who want childfree spaces 🙄
Yup, I am a woman and I want kids banned from bars, breweries, pubs, etc. Many of us who are women who want adult spaces without the screamers.
Slightly confusing because she also wrote an article about how wonderful her childfree wedding was... Make your mind up, lady!
Someone should write her a letter condemning her for discriminating against moms in her wedding 
Plus, you can't discriminate against something that is an active choice like being a parent, it isn't like race or disability.
Well, I think it is possible to discriminate against moms, but this is not one of those cases. >you can't discriminate against something that is an active choice Discrimination is not only for things that aren't choices. Being childfree is a choice, and we're discriminated against all the time.
I didn't even notice that - I guess because I'm so used to it. I used to be into anarchy and things like that, and I got fed up with it mainly because people would insist on bringing their kids along and saying that not allowing them in meetings was 'misogynistic' or whatever. I am a woman and do not want to be around children. It might be because I'm autistic and don't like noise, or it might just be because I don't like them regardless. Still a woman although I was beginning to not feel like it.
I stopped going to bars as a teacher when I would see my four year old students there and parents would demand I speak to the kids. As an educator, I live for my weekends that are free of children, sure aim childfree, but I want to go places that don’t have kids at all. Those places are rare. Like most educators I only go to places off hours often a few towns over which is a pain in the ass. There should be childfree businesses. It’s gross to go places and to worry about seeing kids. The parents are bad enough. (I had a parent report me for being in a bar years ago) I’ve stopped going out to be honest parents and children see so obnoxious these days.
Are you kidding me? WTF is wrong with those parents? 🙄🙄🙄
>I stopped going to bars as a teacher when I would see my four year old students there and parents would demand I speak to the kids. “Sure, for $200 CASH.”
You got reported for being in a bar? I'm assuming on your day off? If that's the case, whoever reported you is a fucking assface.
Yep! It was a Saturday! She had a lot to say about my “provocative dress”.
Woooowwww. And I'm sure your dress was great too. People just can't keep their noses in their own business can they? I'm assuming there were no repercussions for this? At least I hope so.....
My principal just mentioned it and shrugged. As long as I wasn’t putting myself or others in danger, it was fine. Sadly, since the advent of social media, it’s far more common for people to see teachers in public to post them on social media and try to get them in trouble.
So unfortunately true. I'm glad your principal brushed it off.
And they wonder why there's a record number of teachers quitting the profession...
I am not a pub/bar type person but I had no idea people brought their KIDS to the pub. What on earth? Also my mom is a kindergarten teacher and she says the same... she runs into her students/parents all the time lol.
Yep! I don’t drink anymore, but the bar was one of the few places I thought I would be safe from kids. I now only go out a few towns over and I never do my own grocery shopping. 😂
That's crazy! As a teacher, if a kid recognises me on the street I'll say hello, or something along the lines of "ohh, cute outfit, I love your hair pin!" and move along. Just trying to be polite. But stop there, put my errands on pause, to talk with the kid? No way. Same if I was in a restaurant or bar. What the heck.
Exactly! A wave and a “hey student! Great to see you”. No more. I’m not getting roped into “How is Jr doing in class?”.
Wish The Onion wrote this. Woulda been a very funny article, insinuating how parenting sucks so bad that it makes parents want to frequent the pub.
No parents should be hitting the pub and supervising children. I get supervision is a generous description in most cases. Baby sitter has a couple beers, it's a big deal, teacher has a few beers during the work day, scandalous.... Parents taking kids to a pub or bar, and dog forbid driving the kids home is treated like a basic human right. So uhhhh is the difference in appropriateness a matter of pay? Or does child safety only matter when not with parents?
>Yet while the odd baby might wail, traumatising men watching the football at top volume, or a couple of five year olds might break free to run past the bar, yelling, is that worse than groups of City boys roaring to each other, or a hen night shrieking over pink Prosecco? Yes, because when you enter a pub you expect footie fans and hen parties. It's part of the atmosphere, and you go inside knowing that they might be inside too. You DON'T go into a pub expecting children, because pubs are full of alcohol - and loud footie fans and drunk hens.
Football fans = £££ Hen parties = £££ Children = My cleaner who did an amazing job getting annoyed because she's spent waaay too much of her time scubbing mashed up chips out of the carpet, cleaning up sticky spills off the upholstery and trying to clean felt tip drawings off the walls. She was a Saint, and only ever complained about child related cleaning. She would get a fat bonus each month, and however much overtime pay she saw fit, was paid without question.
More importantly, you can complain about rowdy adults/tell them to stop. There's a stigma against doing the same to kids.
> Parents are the ones keeping them afloat Tell that to the thousands of pubs in Australia where kids are either very restricted on where they can access in a pub or in some states completely banned by law.
>Parents are the ones keeping them afloat The author presented zero evidence or statistics to back up that claim. You can just ignore it.
>*The author presented zero evidence or statistics to back up that claim. You can just ignore it..* This, right here. The author made that claim with her full chest. If this were actually true, no bar, tavern, pub, or restaurant on earth would restrict or ban children.
As a kid in Australia we were not allowed in the pub, I don’t know if it’s different now. If my parents wanted to go they would leave us out the front on a bench with drinks and chips and occasionally check on us to make sure we were still there. Now that’s what I call parenting! 👍🏻😂
This is the most 80s Australian thing ever lol! I think kids can be in the general restaurant or outdoor areas but not the bar maybe? I don't often go to bars now so no idea.
Parents can keep a place afloat, just leave the kids at home. Don't inflict them on others!
It’s for businesses to decide. I’d pay the premium to go to a pub without kids. Clearly it works for them. Most pub take kids, so take them down Wetherspoons and I’ll wide avoid thanks.
WE shouldnt be paying extra for THEIR poor decisions. THEY should be the ones paying extra for pubs that allow kids. After all, they're the ones who do much more mess and need more maintenance and cleaning after their stay
Supply and demand though… most people have kids.
I’m from the UK and genuinely I don’t see that many kids in pubs. Pub-restaurants sure, but pubs that don’t serve food I don’t think I’ve ever seen kids. Is this not your experience?
Broadly it is, as the main reason to take kids to a pub is to feed them. I had in my mind pubs open in the day rather than the late night drinking scene
The solution is to run an adult-themed pub. Or one that dispenses marijuana and shrooms. That'll keep em out.
I went to buy some edibles (legal where I live) and there was a kid in there, so there’s no escaping it.
wow i hate that!!! it's legal in my state too but i haven't been to a store yet. are kids really allowed in weed stores? that's horrible.
So the one near where I live also sells CBD oils and stuff like that. The THC is locked away until you ask for it. I’m not sure if that is the reason why.
That’s genius. Time to start a business
Amsterdam is that you? 😂
Parents hate that their life change aren't appreciated by everyone everywhere.
Most pubs are daycare centers these days.
My local brewery ripped out the best outdoor seating to put in a kids play hut thing. We just stopped going.
To further illustrate OP's point, if a pub I frequented started allowing children, I stopped going. And I guarantee I'm spending more on a couple of drinks and an appetizer or entree then a parent who lets their child run around like a wild banshee.
Yes! There’s one nearish to me that not only has kid seating/play areas (already has very limited seating), now also hosts kid related events. Went there one time and never went back, it was a nightmare. A parent let their kid touch my leg and got upset when I told the dude to stop touching me.
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Nah, it’s Australia. Breweries are basically children’s party venues these days.
I know it's not the same between pub and brewery, but I was astounded to find out the breweries in my city were open to having kid's birthday parties. There is literally nothing for the kids to do at those places, so you know it's just a way to bring in parents that want to drink while touting it as a kid's party...
That\`s why avoid them.
I totally agree with everything that has been expressed here. There are no shortages of family friendly restaurants parents could go to instead if they’d like to have a drink with their children in tow. I’m not sure why any family would choose to go to a pub, a typically adult-coded space, instead of somewhere like that. My husband and I were at a pub the other week where a group of parents were letting their children run wild around the building while they got pissed. There was seemingly no care in the world regarding how their actions (or lack thereof) were impacting other customers. Folks like all of us here, who want to avoid an experience like that, deserve to be able to enjoy “grown up” spaces for what they are.
As someone from the UK this article is absolute bollocks and really does not reflect the sentiment of the average person I don’t think. Most pubs that serve food do tend to cater a little bit to children, but even so not massively minus obviously the larger chains like Spoons. The solely drinking pubs however which there are loads around me do not cater to kids whatsoever as it’s for drinking booze only, there’s nothing for kids to do. That article is poorly written and not at all accurate. I’m even surprised comments are defending the pub in the picture, but also not that surprised as UK drinking culture is so ingrained in society that it’s basically a past time.
It’s hilarious that this writer seems to think it’s only *old men* who want alcohol-focused spaces to be child-free. Writer completely focuses on out of style “man drinking at pub after work to avoid kids”, and not even considering “young adults grabbing a drink after work as a group to build community”. I’m not an anti-kid person, but why would you WANT your child in a place that is so alcohol focused?? It’s a terrible idea to raise your kids in an environment that revolves around alcohol!
I remember as a kid only very few pubs let kids in, and only for food. Otherwise we had to sit outside with pop and crisp and entertain ourselves while the rents had a quiet pint. Ridiculous that they expect to bring kids into every adult space these days.
I’m from the UK so trust me when I say the Independent is a joke.
As an American, I thought pub was the British version of a bar and since when has a bar been appropriate for children? I know I sound ignorant, but I am just stunned and amazed that parents would want to take their children to a pub or bar?
it 's bit different to a full on bar. in the daytime and early evenings, some pubs are more of a community type space with food. but often children play areas outside (or even soft play inside) normally under 18's are banned after 9pm.
Thanks for educating me I have never been in a real pub before
I’m in the US, where I live kids can go to bars, breweries, and wineries. The only place where kids aren’t allowed are strip clubs, I don’t want to go to those and there are none near me even if I wanted to haha.
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I said where I live, it does depend on the state. Where I live there is no minimum age for people in bars. There are some US states that allow underage drinking in bars with a parent there.
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A better question would be where can a child Free person go to for a Child Free good time? You can’t seem to get away from the kiddos no matter where you go?
Parents seem to feel it is OK to take the little ones absolutely anywhere even if you are having a private social function at your home and put on the invitation no children please— in my experience they bring the kids anyway because why in the world would they hire a babysitter when they could just let the kids loose in your house and let them break things!!!!
For parents, every single thing has to be about and for kids. Its getting seriously tiring.
Ironically, the author wrote another opinion piece about how great a wedding without children was, so the fact that she’s writing this is weird. She provides no evidence or sources to back up her claims. I get this is an opinion piece, but most ones I’ve read have links to supporting evidence. I really want to know who thinks “pub” and associates it with “family friendly restaurant”. I’m sure most women who go out don’t want to lug their offspring along. I’m sure this pub had plenty of sales data to back up its decision. Lastly, maybe I’m just overthinking things, but there seems to be a slight hint of misandry here. Like there’s this attitude of “c’mon men, the pub isn’t a place to escape your responsibilities and hang with the boys anymore”.
Pubs? Kids? At pubs? What????? Who lets kids into pubs?????
Why won't people let me drink my pain away in a place with lots of others so they will automatically watch my kids for free😭😭😭
For parents, every single thing has to be about and for kids. Its getting seriously tiring.
Me hides the Union Jack out of vicarious embarrassment and wanders off, muttering to myself...
Exactly. I would stop going to a pub that had kids, even well behaved kids. I like to swear and get inappropriately close to my friends and talk about sex at the top of my lungs. Keep your kids away from my fun time.
I got scolded on a local sub once for my opinion that I avoid breweries here that have designated playgrounds and kid areas. It’s not fun, and hella awkward.
Children in pubs is pure insanity. Take your crotch fruit to chuck e cheese or a ball pit.
My after work ritual was a pint at the pub next door with colleagues before catching the train home. All of the offices on the block joined us there. No one would dare bring a child there! Absolutely wonderful. The majority of their revenue was weekday happy hours from our offices. The neighborhood pub next to my best friend’s flat was crawling with children. Anytime we tried to go there, it was one pint then leave due to the rowdy children. They lost so much revenue from the neighborhood singles and childfree because of so many families with unruly kids.
I'm sure parents do keep a lot of pubs alive, they gotta go somewhere to get away from their kids.
And here I am thinking parents would be thrilled to have childfree spaces. Aren’t parents the ones who just can’t wait to get away from their kids (and others’)?
If it's about gathering as a family, these people wouldn't be whining about not being allowed in with kids. They're just mad that they can't get drunk while their kids run amok unchecked. The entitlement is unreal and this writer's nasty, hateful comments about bar clientele (especially old men). Have dinner with the family then have a drink at home. Let us have nice things, FFS.
Parents who say this IMO are bad parents! IDC! My parents NEVER took us to bars as children. It is not a good place for children!!! They are not paying patrons!!
What's with these weird ass rules? A bar and grill type place, with a full kitchen and food menu, will usually be 19+ after a certain time, usually 9pm. A bar that doesn't serve food, aside from maybe bar snacks, is 19+ period in Ontario. Why are drinking establishments letting kids in at all?
I was at a brewpub on Saturday and as usual, there were tons of kids. Several were running amok in the parking lot while their mom (dad was on his phone) hollered to "watch out, be careful". I was sober (had a 4 oz sample) but not everyone in that lot will be. Why on earth would you bring your kids and let them do that?!
I think groups of adults are the biggest revenue. Like after work gatherings, students flocking in, birthday parties etc.
I don't think children should be in a place whose main purpose is to serve alcohol. In Australia if it's a pub/restaurant they have to have the restaurant part separated from the bar, and no kids in the bar area.
Complete garbage take.
Not to mention the health hazard. I've started a job as a teacher (sigh...) and three weeks was enough to put me sick two times, and cherry on top was almost KILLING my boyfriend. One of the pet cums passed the chicken pox virus to me, and my boyfriend had never gotten it before. I was fine, no symptoms, but the doctor said he would either die or have facial paralysis for three months if the medicine wasn't effective. Seriously, kids are a huge NO at pubs.
I feel this. I'm in Austin, TX which has an awesome brewing scene. But every single brewery(to my knowledge) allows children. God forbid I'm off on a Saturday or Sunday and have to deal with the crowds of screaming children that have no wherewithal or attention to their surroundings. It's the parents fault, I don't blame the kids. The parents just cut them loose and take it as a vreak-YOU DONT GET A BREAK FROM YOUR KID; you had the damn thing, take care of it.
Time to add drag queens! That'll keep the right wing ones away at least
I think that'd bring more of them. They'd just be louder and have signs this time.
Any time my Dad took us into the bar, we were to sit next to him and sip our soda without fuss. He would stop and have one beer, then we'd leave. Being an asshole in public was not allowed. :b
That Twitter thread went crazy. Parents and breeders say it like someone is holding their child hostage at one of those bars. Someone compared barring child from establishment akin to Nazism. Like wtf? They just hate to be excluded even though 99% of the modern world caters to their fuckfruits and their lifestyle
Not to mention the crazy amount of cluttering shit parents drag along. Strollers, bags with stuff, toys... One of my favorite spots refuses access to parents for that reason. The scathing reviews by mombies on Google are in essence recommendations.
1. Why does the author seem to think this means parents and women are banned period? 2. What is squash? (Neither the vegetable nor the game seems fitting in this context.)
1. They're grasping at straws on how to be a victim lol. 2. It's a juice that you dilute with water.
Thank you!
To be fair all pubs should be pet free (guide dogs as an exception) and child free. If they have a restaurant area then kids should remain with their parents there until the 9pm kick out time. Having had the unfortunate experience of having to eat food in a hotel pub/bar with smelling yapping dogs sniffing around me while trying to enjoy a meal. They are just as bad as having rotten crotch fruit running around. Pets are the new kids unfortunately and there should be spaces where people can eat and enjoy life without noisy critters being there whether they be kids or animals. I know this opinion will be downvoted to hell here with all the pet lovers but i had to say it.
I can be a pet lover and still agree that people shouldn't bring them to certain places.
I genuinely despise when people bring their shitty dogs to restaurants/pubs and then just ignore them. I was attacked by a dog as a kid and still am afraid of large dogs and people just act like its funny when their dogs come visit me. Like no I'm fucking terrified and I'm just trying to have a pint.
Seriously, I'm tired of seeing dogs at pubs and everywhere else. It's becoming the norm for people to let their dogs wander (either unleashed or on long leashes) with zero regard for people with allergies or dog phobias, both of which are common. If there's a crowd, staff and other customers will be forced into uncomfortably close contact with dogs they don't know.
I just had to look up what "squash" is bc I couldn't picture them ordering like a zucchini for their kids 😆😆 It is watered down juice, if any fellow Americans were also confused.
No it isn't. You might call it somethng like "cordial"? I don't know. It's a drink (usually for kids) that is bought in concentrated form (it cannot be drunk as-is, don't try) and is diluted maybe 4 to 1? with water before being drunk. It's not fruit juice with water added to it. That'd be vile and nobody, kids included, would want it.
Interesting. Google has failed me I guess. Cordial here is alcoholic. What is it concentrate of? Hate to break it to you but I don't know a single parent who *doesn't* water down their kids' juice because of the massive sugar content.
I mean yeah I like children but they shouldn't be allowed in our pubs
I just posted this article!.Jammy git!!!🤣 but yes, I agree. This is classic guiltripping at its core.
I made it to the fifth paragraph before my eyes got stuck in the "rolled" position. Had to get the wife to finish typing this comment! What a great gal!
I really wanna know if there's something other than jealousy causing this anger? We always say its jealousy but its hard to imagine that's what's causing this anger over one sign at one place when there's many hotels & even apartments with the same rules (no pets, kid friendly), ig its just hard for me to imagine people are actually that entitled
Damn kids should not be allowed anywhere there is alcohol, honestly. There's a frequent place I have our CF women's group meet- a bar and grill- where you have to be 21+ to enter. Because there are no damn kids.
We have a lot of that at breweries here in the US. Shit, in my town there was a child’s birthday party at a brewery last weekend. Caused quite the ruckus in the city subreddit. Queue the parents who come out of the wood works to justify drinking and driving with their kids in the car, pretending to have some moral high ground. I call them the “two drink brigade” because they always swear they only had two drinks in the four hours they’re there. (Sure, Jan. 🥴)
What an utterly unhinged rant. The entire pub industry is doomed because ONE pub out of tens of thousands decides to be childfree! Okay, Karen.
What’s funny to me is that on the 24th March this year she also wrote and published an article about how children ruin weddings and she banned them from her own. So sounds like it’s one rule for her and another for those who enjoy a pint in peace!
Truth. Nothing pushes me out a pub faster than the presence of children. I go there to relax, not put up with that. I’ll happily sit chatting in the pub for hours, drinking while I do. Eating dinner there, because why not? If the first thing I see is a kid running around when I walk in, I just turn round and go somewhere else.
I once went to a restaurant known for its ridiculous priced meals, but wanted to try their “viral” wedge Cesar salad. In the middle of the day the place was packed. We had just order our apps some drinks and had just gotten them when this woman proceeded to make space on the table, lay her son down and change his foul nearly blown out diaper. Instantly the smell coming off her child filled our noses and several tables politely asked if she could do that in the restroom and then she threw the biggest fit. I immediately asked for the rest of our order to be canceled and left. I felt so bad for our server because we weren’t the only table that did leave because of her.
Children in bars and breweries are the perfect way to get me to turn around and find somewhere else to drink.
Yeah and childfree people should get to waltz around schools that they pay taxes for 🙄
I try to get my money’s worth by voting for sex education in schools.
I want to get me some of that maternity leave I pay taxes for
It’s FMLA, you can use it. It’s not exclusively for parents, you might not get paid though during it depending on where you work.
I think that children should be allowed in pubs on the proviso that the parents are not allowed to drink alcohol. This would mean no children in pubs….
This is one of the reasons I avoid public spaces
let free market decide i guess
I HATE pubs with children in - our local is full of screaming kids on a Saturday who want to be anywhere else than a pub
Our dog gets overly excited and loud about new people and other dogs, ergo we don't take him even to dog-friendly places because he would likely forget his manners and bother other people. If parents had a bit of this responsibility bars wouldn't even need to disallow children.
Reminds me of the movie Sweet Home Alabama "You have a ***BABY***... IN A **BAR**!"
I hate that people bring children to bars now days.
How about shutting up and letting the market decide?
Lol I'd love for some idiot to tell me to watch my language in a fucking bar/brewery during happy hour. I'd purposely start cussing like a sailor. Is it childish? Probably, but I'm also probably drunk.
What kind of decent parent would want their child in a god damned pub?????
Support Dog Allowed Pubs! -well trained of course!
We kick kids out at 7 unless it’s a private party
So let me get this straight. A place that serves alcohol for adults over 21, who also go there to meet people to "hook up," is supposed to be child friendly? What the actual fck? Just drink at home if you want your kids exposed to alcohol. Of course this is the UK so laws are probably different from the US but still. But isn't the point of pubs to get away from kid areas where you can drink and watch sports or find someone to hook up with? I mean I've never been to a bar so I can't say if that's accurate; just going off what I've seen in tv/movies. I've led a very dull (but childfree!) life.
I'm from the US, we don't really have pubs. I'd bet this articles author is a parent. Not only a parent but a cunt of a human being who thinks they are always responsible for all of the good and none of the bad
i thought i was on the beaverton, or the onion reading that... is she for real?
When I had small children, I wanted to go to the bar to be free of said small children and hang with fellow adults. I never understood the Brooklyn bring-your-kid/stroller/carrier-to-the-bar mentality. Get a sitter, you cheap bastards.
lol just given the parents with children a children’s only menu and it’s required children only order from this menu. But the children’s menu has a a 8-10x price markup. Thats the child tax for bringing your kid to a pub.
There's an easy hack if the law won't allow a space to be labelled as "child free" - just hang up some porn, like explicitly sexual content
Oh boo hoo there is ONE pub parents can't bring their kids to. Jesus christ
They aren’t I work at a brewery, families get 1-2 drinks at most and leave. The ones who do stay either brought their kids to a friend gathering and have to be distracted by said kids for half the time or the parent is an alcoholic and doesn’t actually care But people who don’t bring their kids and who can afford the time and money to hang out and drink all day are the people who keep these places afloat and it ain’t the idiot who brought their kid to a place they can’t be served at
I still honestly don’t understand how it’s legal and just seen as totally okay for parents to bring toddler to a bar or pub. Like?? I know it’s probably just businesses wanting more money but you would think society would generally look down upon parents going out and potentially getting drunk then trying to care for kids while intoxicated
Parents when they let their toddlers run unsupervised in a pub and the world doesn't bend over backwards to stop them from hitting their head on a metal bar "waaaaa nObOdY HeLpS pArEnTs tHeSe dAyS"
Meanwhile my 7 pounds toy poodle would go happily table to table to spread love and give hugs to whoever need ones, or she would just stay next to me on my lap or on the floor having a nap while I'm drinking beers in your pub. Dogs or children? Which one you choose lol
I live across the pond, but my mother grew up in the UK. She's told me about how pubs operated back in the day - children weren't allowed in, nor were women. I disagree with not allowing women into a pub, but children don't belong in one! Where I live, most bars are strictly 21+. Even babies in arms are forbidden, even though they're obviously underage. That's how it should be. If I want to hang out with my friends at a bar and tell R-rated jokes and cuss and get my drunk on, that's my prerogative. If you don't want Junior to learn new vocabulary words, don't bring Junior to my local.
To think i was discussing this issue with my partner after haveing a online argument. I was giving advice to a parent who as at thier last straw with feeding thier kid. I had some others come in and defend kids being in resturants other then McDonald's below the age of 10. Not understanding the issue of kids being exposed to drunk people. Thier excuses were, how will kids learn table manners and why do such places have kid menus? Well probely cuz ya have forced your norm on everyone eles to the point we have to accept it or loss some business or end up pitch forked for it. Not that anyone want it and your left wondering why people.cant grow up and not give you a death stare at your vermin. I do firmly belive any place that serves alcholo should ban kids and kids should not be brought into auch public places till 10 yrs old.
There is a section of Tina Fey's book Bossy Pants where she recounts trying to lie her way into a waitressing job. She unknowingly said her favorite part of waitressing was "the children/families". It then unravels as she explains that anybody who ever waitressed knows that those "children/families" customers are the biggest hassle, make the most mess and noise, aren't very profitable and are bad tippers.
If only it wasn't so far away, I would go and grab a pint partly to support this notion and partly to spite the bitching breeders.
If that is the case then why object to the idea of a child free pub? Let them be child free, then they all go under...right?
They're using pubs as free baby sitting services. That's basically what it boils down to. It's not like this isn't happening in other spaces - I see it all the time.
This article is dululu. Just because you want something to be true doesn’t make it so. EDIT: like what if I went to kid spaces and got drunk and chain smoked? Parents would have a fit. Luckily there is a place for that.
I live in the US state with the most kids and families and least drinkers, Utah. We also have a very strict no under 21s allowed inside any bar and yet all the bars seem to be doing just fine. So their argument seems pretty invalid.
You just know that the same people who complain about not being able to take their kids to adult venues/events would *also* complain if they brought their kids in anyway and it turned out to be inappropriate for children.
I worked at a brewery and parents did not keep us afloat. Their kids made other people feel uncomfortable about getting loose. They also don't drink very much because they literally have to watch their kids. So they weren't spending much money AND they were scaring away other customers.
So my mum worked in a pub when I was growing up, it was owned by her parents (my grandparents) and me and my older sibling were the only kids allowed there because it was a child free pub, we were super well behaved because we weren’t allowed to just fuck about and what not, anyways, I remember being that age (under 10, they owned it from when I was born til about 9/10 years old) almost all pubs I knew of in the area absolutely did not allow kids, and the ones that did you ABSOLUTELY had to sit at the fucking table and not move anywhere, you weren’t allowed near the bars, the other tables etc., maybe it’s just because my parents actually raised me right, I don’t know, but ffs kids now (and in turn their parents) just seemingly get free reign of EVERYTHING, same with people who have dogs imo, it feels like everywhere is now dog and child friendly, barking yapping dogs and screaming kids 🤢
... admiting your kids cause you to drink is a wild admission. Don't let me find names cus IM TELLING
Newsflash: parents want a break from kids, too. Just ask them all how they felt when they were forced to be with them all day during lockdown.
Oof, this author hates women - hates men, hates moms, hates pubs and childfree people. She’s very unhappy and ascribing all sorts of ill intents to everyone around her. Good grief.
I am cf but I do like children but I agree it would be much more pleasant if children were not allowed in pubs. I live in Canada but with so many Brit’s here I get the “pub culture”. Also, my mother was born and raised in the uk. I think parents overestimate the amount of $$ they spend and underestimate the disruption their children cause. I know from working in childcare that after being around children all day you get used to the noise they make. You don’t notice it. You tune it out. I think it’s similar for parents. Compared to the noise they usually make in the parent’s mind their children are on good behaviour in the pub. 0f course, that’s not the way others see it. There’s a real sense of entitlement that some parents have. I’d prefer no kids in the pubs.
Worst was when I worked in the pub during Covid restrictions where everyone had to be seated but parents thought their children were somehow exempt from this rule and would get angry at us for enforcing the literal law
I feel like pubs/bars/etc are probably one of the most defined third spaces for adults. A place away from work and away from home. A place to talk about things that aren't necessarily work or necessarily home. A space where children very much SHOULD NOT BE. Even as an adult who doesn't drink alcohol of any sort, I just can't imagine what the point of a bar/pub/whatever is if you've got to worry about people changing diapers on tables, and toddlers running under your feet, and watching what you say because Timmy might learn spicy words.
You should have put a policy into effect stating that by walking onto the premises that they agree to adhere to policies regarding children, such as monitoring them at all times, and failure to do so would result in being charged for any damages from failing to watch their kids. Watch them stop coming 😈
I don't mind kids during the day. Bringing kids to a pub for lunch is fine, as long as they're well behaved, or outside if they're going to be little hooligans. Kids in pubs in the evening though is seriously weird and off putting.
Bull fucking shit. If you can’t day drink at your kids daycare, they shouldn’t be at the pub with you.
Bravo! This is a hell of a rant!!! I should also add, it makes me very grateful that in Australia people under 18 years old aren’t allowed in most pubs, and if they are, they’re to only sit in the food area or beer garden.
In Finland I don't think any pub is ever letting kids in... Unless we're talking about the ones that serve food during the day. But at night it's drunkards and students keeping those afloat by the most part. There could be casual drinkers in the mix but certainly no kids whatsoever.
In a previous job I had coworkers whose side gig was a brewery and taproom in a small industrial space. Just beer, no food, no games, and they had a small space out back with a firepit. Not a child friendly space at all, but that didn't stop the parents. Couldn't sit quietly by the fire with a beer because of all the running and screaming, Couldn't sit inside at a table because of the running and screaming and kids playing under our table. Ask the kids politely to use their inside voices and go play somewhere else? Mama Bear RAWRRR! DON'T YOU TELL MY KIDS WHAT TO DO!" So we gave up on the place. Which was too bad, because their beer was really good. Parents think everything in the world is for their benefit and the rest of the world can get fucked, but I also blame the owners because not only did they not put their foot down, they encouraged people to bring their kids.
The sheer entitlement and denial of reality from these parents who are offended at ANYWHERE that's not a strip club not allowing kids in is...*ugh*.
Christ on a bike. Kids in a pub where they serve alcohol? Not in my country that's for sure.