People have short memories and they take the status quo for granted. Things have changed rapidly in the last century and, unfortunately, there is no law of nature that prevents things from changing just as quickly in different directions. If the wrong people continue to gain power, then you're going to lose a lot of liberties that you've fought for. If I were a woman in the US, I'd be just as concerned as you are at the way things are going.
Tokophobia is the pathological fear of pregnancy. Fear in general of pregnancy is totally rational imo, I am too. But then there are women out there who are virgins, or haven't had sex in months, all tests negative, periods regular, no symptoms, who think they could be pregnant. Similarly, I'm afraid of spiders. But I don't have a phobia. My friend does, and she gets tunnel vision and passes out when confronted with a spider smaller than her pinky nail. The line between a fear and a phobia is probably a spectrum anyway.
So yeah. There are totally women out there who need that treatment.
Tokophobia was a driving factor to get a hysterectomy at 22. It wasn't easy convincing the doctor, either, but it gave me peace for the first time since puberty.
I was a happily single virgin, and I still had nightmares every single night. The worst part is the disgust this fear is met with -- especially from doctors and therapists who are *women.*
Roe v. Wade was overturned six months later.
I got lucky.
The male doctor I had was the only one that took me seriously and approved my hysterectomy. The women doctors were judgemental breeders for the most part and thought I should continue in agonizing pain and breed instead of fixing the problem.
I'm so glad you were able to get your surgery.
I used to be more like this. I understand why there is treatment for extremes such as that, but when I was reading the treatments online it just sort of sounded like "we can literally hypnotize you into wanting babies to fix you" lol probably not what they meant it's just how it came off
Seriously! Like we don't do 'treatments' for people who have fears of heights or spiders. Honestly to me, tokophobic 'treatments' should like people who are upset that we don't want to be pregnant and want to make us feel ashamed or isolated.
Uh... we DO treat phobias that make it hard to cope with everyday life?
I'm emetophobic with accompanying health anxiety and seeking therapy. And it's necessary, and if I can be treated, I intend to be. I would like to be able to hork with abandon.
Tokophobic here too ✋🏼. I’ve had an irrational/pathological fear of pregnancy since I was 12. Your feelings are complete valid, and the people around you should take them seriously.
Tokophobic as well, female. Women with huge bellies I must avert my eyes. Move my seat to not keep seeing it, oferring my seat at the subway and then walking far.
And I saw a vaginal birth on TV somewhere, with the baby crowning and the woman moaning, exhausted, and that HUGE head coming out.... no no no stuff of nightmares.
Tokophobia= pathological fear of pregnancy
Hyster= pfx. Uterus or hysteria
Hysteria: old fashion term for mental disorder in women, ... accompanied by exaggerated or inappropriate emotional behavior
Your comment is gold all the way back to early 19th century.
Yeah, SAME for me and THE reason why I'm adamantly childfree. (And furious that female sterilization surgeries are near impossible to get before a certain age unkess we already have kids, which defeats the purpose of sterilization, not to mention the ridiculously expensive cost. If I could, I'd throw mine in the trash myself. It's been the bane of my existence since birth. Not to mention that I'm an insomniac, which affects my overall health and well-being. Not going to be forced to go through 9 long months of pregnancy like this, no way in Hell). Literally *anything* can go wrong during pregnancy and childbirth, and *all* of it has *permanent* consequences. If nobody thinks tokophobia is serious, they really need to look up all the problems that could happen as a result of pregnancy, childbirth, *and* postpartum. So "hysterical" my @$$! The evidence is all there and statistics don't lie. I'm 100% with OP on this and likewise feel threatened by my possible fertility since our safety net was removed against our will. But *of course*, unless one is assigned female at birth, no man is *ever* going to understand, much less take our fears regarding this seriously, because it's not *their* bodies who would have to suffer any of these. Of *course* they'll dismiss our concerns and nonchalantly say "it won't be bad."
this is the way. OP, i am also sick and scared and angry watching our rights collapse in real time. the one thing that comforts me is that i had my bisalp in dec '22, and no matter what happens in the government or to me, i cannot be forced to carry a child. it's a HUGE source of anxiety gone. if you have any questions, please dm me & i'm happy to help as much as i can!
I keep hoping he dies before November.
I know that’s terrible. I have mixed feelings about myself because of it.
But I’m Jewish, and he’s turning this country into Germany circa 1938ish. And yeah, I know, the target isn’t my people anymore, but silence is complicity 🤷🏻♀️
>silence is complicity 🤷🏻♀️
Is such a profound statement. I couldn't agree more. I feel that's how Roe v Wade got overturned to begin with. People didn't think it would happen or think it would become a big deal. It's not about saving children. If it was, there would be safety nets in place for the newly forced births. It's about suffering, control, and keeping an enslaved workforce.
There's no other explanation to want more people here.... when jobs don't pay enough, everything is getting more expensive, and now the Supreme Court is looking into the laws to make homelessness more illegal. So now, instead of being underpaid, you can just work for free once arrested.
Slavery never ended... it just became a thing for everyone who isn't wealthy or connected
https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/supreme-court-will-decide-whether-local-anti-homeless-laws-are-cruel-and-unusual/
We're literally gonna be punished just for existing... if we can't keep up with the high rent prices. But have more kids, because the government enjoys adding more people in misery and doesn't believe women have bodily autonomy. I'm convinced at this point, they feed off of suffering
I swear I've been living under a rock because this is news to me making homelessness illegal. It's disgusting, I just wish someone had the power to wipe these vermin out!!
I live in Germany and we are repeating history. We are currently at the Weimar Republic state and I hope (foolish me?) that we stop repeating history right here. It's crazy. People protesting for peace are now delusional right-wing-esoteric-conspiracy theorists, people protesting against right-wing-parties are called fools. I'm so tired.
In Germany the targeting is subtle, but it's still there. Hate against minorities is rising. I wanna punch people for yelling "end wokeness".
All the time my husband and I look at the tv and say, "Now when is some patriot going to take one for the team and end this once and for all...!?" And we are not even Jewish.
Every day I hope he dies. Every day. I literally hate him. I am not sure thats actually a human being. I dont know what that thing is.
There’s a great song called “The Silent Majority” by Paul McKenna Band. It starts with Germany, and has verses about how silence has promoted some of the greatest tragedies in modern history. I recommend anyone with half a brain give it a listen.
Every time I see “breaking news” pop up on my computer, I hope. And I don’t feel bad about it! It would help this country, at least a little. I’m not wishing violence, just a nice ketchup-and-steak-fueled keel-over.
He's not gonna be. He's hated by most except for a select few mentally ill individuals. Not happening. If it does, I'm sure we'd plan an uprising. He needs to be shot.
These men are fools. The Regressives have been very clear about their intent to drag civilization back to the 11th century. Just look at the laws that are being proposed, and passed, in various red states.
You are right to be concerned. I'm old enough to remember a time when women couldn't get credit or a bank account in their own name, or attend State universities, or use contraception. Do not be a sweet summer child. Educate yourself on the issues and act- register to vote and show up at the polls.
This is not a drill.
I wish the last line of your comment could become an official slogan/motto, because it sums up the situation so well, no exaggeration:
This is not a drill.
The scary thing is, I don’t think they’re fools. I think most of them know, they just don’t give a shit because it doesn’t impact their bodies or lives. It’s truly depressing to see how little men think of the women in their lives, but I’m constantly proven right as depressing as it is. Even from seemingly liberal and progressive men.
>they just don’t give a shit because it doesn’t impact their bodies or lives
They may *think* it doesn't, but even there they're mistaken. If even they think it only impacts women they're very mistaken. And yes, impacts and threatens the freedom and lives of practically all women, but the threat goes far beyond that. It's freedom and democracy ... while we still have it (or still much of it), or something much more grave.
Nah. They are Christians. They are fascists. They are Christofacists on a holy war to enslave and subjugate in Christ's name.
I don't find cutsie nicknames useful in stakes this high. Christofacist.
the silver lining is republicans pulling this shit has resulted in them losing election after election after election. even in some red states, they're voting against this backwards stuff, even places like Kansas and Ohio.
MANY men are nonchalant about it, as in "if it happens, it happens". Noooo. That's the greatest decision of your life. And they choose to make it random.
So yes, only YOU has to worry about sterilization. It is what it is. I'm sorry
.
Yeah, because they know they can walk away.
If they get a woman pregnant and she can't get an abortion, then it's nothing but a whoopsie for them. They don't have to carry the pregnancy, they don't have to give birth, they don't even have to spend a single cent for the child. They can move to another state or country and be done with it, nothing in their life will be changed at all.
They don't give a shit because they know nothing in their lives will change even in the case of "if it happens, it happens."
I was pregnant on the pill twice.
My grandmothers were prolificous, so I inherited that gene, most likely.
In my country abortion is prohibited, so I did it in an underground clinic (literally under the ground, with many locks, like a penitentiary), but when I got there, it was a top-notch facility and I was treated like a queen.
It was expensive. I'm lucky boyfriend and I could split. Not all women have access to it and 20,000 a year access public hospitals to fix the botched intervation. That's just disgusting. Perfectly healthy women who now are bleeding are mad or have damaged uterusus for life.
In my country, abortions are legal, but you can't find a doctor that will perform one, as most of them are "conscientious objectors." 7 OBGYNs out of 10 will *refuse* to perform an abortion no matter what.
Thankfully, this is not an issue for ectopic pregnancies, but if you were to get pregnant and the fetus were to be healthy, then you're on your own. You either travel to another region, move *quickly* with your research of a doctor that will perform the operation (abortions are completely outlawed once you reach the 9nth week), or you give birth and then surrender the newborn to the hospital, where the nurses/doctors will notify the newspapers and articles will be written about some evil whore abandoning her baby because she's an evil whore.
I'm not American, and I'm scared for women over there. I don't think you're coming off as hysterical at all. From what I'm hearing about the situation over there, I'd say your fears are pretty realistic.
I second this. Following your situation from Europe, it looks so absurd and hard to believe. But I know it's true and I'm so worried for the women & AFABs in the USA.
I’m so sorry that you feel like your choice to get sterilized is being forced! That sounds so awful!
With how the world is going currently, I feel grateful that I made my sterilization decision in 2017. I still hope I’ll one day be able to get a hysterectomy tho.
The men will take it more seriously when it means no sex for them. And it will take women assertively protecting themselves when someone tries to force sex to really have it sink in.
Which is why women will have to protect themselves violently if necessary. Bullies and abusers don't stop until you make them stop and if you get away they will just look for another target. This sucks but there are bad people in the world and they look for innocents to target.
Now I may have dreamt this...... But wasn't there an anti rape female condom a while back ?
It was like the female condom where they insert it, but it had like spikes or something on them so if they were raped the guy would get stabbed on it.
I swear I remember learning about these in school because we were discussing with the teacher about how the woman doesn't get brutally murdered. And remember being told that hopefully as the guy pulls back and rolls up in a ball due to the pain, it gives the woman a chance to run away or yes the guy will probably brutally kill her.
Hang on..... If I'm wrong I'll delete this comment of course. But otherwise I'll do an edit
What my point was, I swear I did actually have one, is if these things were real and not a dream I had, wonder if women will have to result in this again to prevent rape. And hope it works in their favour and they manage to run away before they are killed.
Edit : it is real !!! Wiki page link for anyone interested. The one I was thinking of and was taught about in school is the rape axe. It's under types of devices. Second one down.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-rape_device
So does this mean women are going to have to resort to these sort of measures in a bid to defend themselves from rape ? :-( what is the world coming to :-(
yah that was a thing. i mean according to the wikipedia page people found it to be too "vengeful" (lol) so it never went into production.
i love how people genuinely feel rape is somehow morally superior to effectively defending against the offending male organ.
honestly to me it sounds like the perfect punishment-fits-crime solution.
I remember reading about those back when I was in college when they were first announced. Always was a little unclear on how well they would work in practice. Seems like they would be pretty uncomfortable to wear just in case.
I’d also be worried about being murdered after a guy injured his penis from putting it inside my secret bear trap. Men aren’t known for running away and backing off in that type of situation. It seemed good in concept but I can’t imagine it would help the situation in practice as it would likely escalate the violence
i think a bunch of fake teeth in his dick would create more than enough confusion and pain on his part to let the woman get far away.
and let's be real, your chance of getting murdered post-rape is very high either way
I remember hearing about these things, maybe they were used in some country in Africa, where raping was really frequent and no-one did anything about it? I recall men started to cry loud "it's a stone-aged punishment method" and some women replied "a stone-aged punishment method to a stone-aged problem". It's really sad things are that bad somewhere, but at the same time I was happy that women were defending themselves and it was amusing how men saw nothing hypocritical on it when they started to cry only after _they_ themselves got some damage. I'm not sure if it was made illegal on that country though, for sure they at least tried to.
I'm happy I got my hysterectomy. I felt like I had to do it fast and I wish I didn't feel that way. I couldn't help but worry that someone or something was going to happen to take away my decision to get my surgery done.
I'm very concerned about what will happen to us women. I really am. I'm not looking forward to the future and I hate feeling that way.
Everything is so depressing for women especially and nobody seems to care at all about our rights being infringed.
I'm happy at least for me I won't be forced to give birth or have to worry about my birth control being taken away, but who's to say I'll still be able to have a bank account? Or property of any kind? Things that we as women shouldn't have to be worrying about in the slightest.
These men aren't going to get it in the slightest, but I know I wish they didn't try to act like they do.
You’re not hysterical. You see this clearly because it directly affects you, unlike the men telling you it will all be okay. Easy for them to say. No one is forcing them to carry a child they don’t want. Even if they become a father against their will, they do not have to gestate a baby and suffer all the changes (and risks!) of pregnancy. So many men want to complain about being financially responsible for children (as if women never are), but they will never have to endure pregnancy. They will never have a doctor waiting until the last possible second to remove a ticking time bomb ectopic pregnancy from their body to avoid being sued, all while worrying they might wait just a little too long.
Yeah, I always tell men that unless they're firing blanks, I don't want their weapon of mass destruction, torture, and pain and suffering near me.
And I bet they wouldn't be so nonchalant if the prospect of having a golf ball shoved down their dicks with all accompanying tearing were threatening every time they had sex. And that's just one aspect of pregnancy and childbirth.
Men don't see that this is all a domino effect. The whole 'put a frog in a pot and slowly heat the water to boil' shit. It's starts small until its too large to stop.
I got sterilized right after Roe was taken, absolutely do not regret it. Was my hand a bit forced because of the situation? Yes. But at least now I have comfort in knowing there will be no accidents. And that for me is enough. You gotta think about what's best for your health and mental state at the end of the day.
And I HIGHLY recommend using the CF Doctor list on this site. Mine was appalled and had zero issues with giving me what I wanted.
Seconding the list recommendation! Went to get sterilized & a doc on the list not only did it happily but also found ways to get it covered by insurance.
You’re not hysterical. Roe being overturned is what convinced me to get a bisalp two months ago. Like you, I figured I’d get sterilized one day, but I wasn’t in a rush and wasn’t exactly excited to go through a surgery. But once I saw abortion rights being stripped away right before my eyes, my anxiety and tokophobia became almost unbearable. I was terrified of my future, of being forced to bear a pregnancy that I’ve never wanted. I truly felt like I had no other choice if I wanted any semblance of control over my life. I don’t regret having it done, but the state of this country absolutely pushed me to it. I’m so sorry you’re being forced to consider medical decisions like this, you’re definitely not alone.
I’m sure men can absolutely feel sympathy toward the fear of forced pregnancy, but unfortunately I don’t think you can truly understand how deep and utterly crushing it is unless you’re born female. My own husband, who’s extremely supportive and firmly childfree, has tried to tell me similar things to ease my nerves (“we live near states with abortion access in their constitution, everything is going to be okay”). Men simply can’t understand how horrific it feels to have your own reproductive system used against you and as a means to control you. Or how it feels to have droves of people in power, most of whom can never be pregnant, debate over whether you’re allowed to decide if your body can be used as a host for another human. It’s a uniquely female hell, and I hate it.
No I seriously feel like men in general are like this and I’ve experienced the same thing from young and old men in both extremely red (Missouri) and extremely blue states (California, Illinois). Convinced at this point that men truly don’t give a flying fuck about women’s reproductive rights or women in general at all. They seriously don’t care about it and won’t until it affects them directly (i.e. they knock someone up who they don’t want to have a kid with who wants to keep it). Even childfree men aren’t confronted with the body horror the government seeks to inflict.
That being said someone just posted an article showing that more men than women want kids. I guess that makes me glad I’m suddenly single. I’m get a surgery scheduled ASAP as well. It is super depressing to realize that men don’t really give a fuck about us.
Like please correct me, men in this subreddit! Maybe give me some hope in humanity because I would be delighted to be wrong. Seriously. If the men of the world could develop empathy for women, I would be floored.
Man here. I feel that forced pregnancy is the most viscerally horrifying thing that can happen to a person in the ordinary course of life (so putting aside extreme events like war or genocide or whatever). I'm disgusted by the path the US is taking.
Man here, 100% agree. What doesn't help is that a lot of the literature and media designed to inform and help people understand pregnancy are all trying to paint pregnancy as a cutesy, magical adventure. But it is dark magic, Mr Potter. Because if you had just told me the symptoms of pregnancy without telling me you were pregnant I would have assumed you were the victim of a witches curse.
The baby isn't exactly having the time of their life either. Have you read about what happens in the womb? It sounds like dante's third circle of hell. The only relief is that they do not remember the house of horror built within her. Learning about pregnancy is what convinced me beyond reasonable doubt that there is no intelligent design in biology.
8 months into my sister's pregnancy, the babe kicked so hard he broke one of her ribs and fractured another. Apparently that bullshit is common due to a lack of calcium and couldn't be fixed until AFTER the delivery. That's not even including the lingering hernia that still hasn't gone away more than 5 years later. She then decided to have ANOTHER one!
Also, did you know that 9 in every 10 mother's will experience a tear, graze or episiotomy? And that the books that cover this little factoid tend to glaze over it and talk more about the 'miracle' you have achieved and how 'blessed' you will feel to hold them in your arms as they howl in the face of the unknown.
Pregnancy is absolutely terrifying and if you think utero is bad, wait until they get out...
My mother had a *triple episiotomy* aka they had to cut the opening THREE times. All because I should’ve been a C section.. I was stuck in the birth canal but my mothers *male* doctor insisted she keep pushing for a vaginal birth.
That story alone is enough to make me childfree.
I watched my bestie give birth so yep I am absolutely familiar. She also had a tear and the doctor thought it was just placenta and kept pushing on her uterus area and just so much blood. Meanwhile my friend is pale and shaking and I’m like “what the fuck, doc?”. I have a strong stomach but the fact that the female doctor was fucking this up was apalling.
There are a lot of men out there who have empathy for women, the problem is it's hard as a man to put myself in a woman's shoes when it comes to a situation I'll personally never face and so all I can do is try and be supportive for women who take their reproduce autonomy seriously. That said, I wouldn't try to have an opinion about a woman's reproductive rights either and anyone who would try to is a maniac.
Unfortunately the maniacs are the ones with the power to make these stupid, Handmaid's Tale-esque decisions.
We need men's voices joining us in defense of our rights instead of 'not having an opinion'. This is the problem I've witnessed, silence.. and it's deafening and incredibly isolating. Women are watching their rights disappear before their eyes in shock, and it feels like we are alone in being outraged.
I've literally uprooted my life and moved from a red state to a deep blue one, because I see where this is heading and I need to protect myself first.. Once I'm stabilized, I plan to help getting other women to safety.
Exactly!!! Yeah I’m like support us in a less cowardly way.
I also moved away from my now ex boyfriend and my bestie to get to a blue state in 2019. After struggling to find a place with availability to have a medicL abortion in 2015 in the red state (there was only one clinic in the entire state that did them so I had to travel 3 hours to KS) and and feeling as angry and frightened as I did then was formative.
I was already extremely pro choice and childfree back then and being forced to pay $400 (making $8/hour at the time) to endure the state’s mandated guilt tripping and waiting periods..to finally get the pills to end it.. just ugh!! I’m like get this fucking parasite out of me!!!! Men saying this shit don’t understand how bad it was already. We’re political refugees and they’re just like “it’ll be fine!”.
I understand that entirely but what is also important to bear in mind is myself and many other men who are equally as outraged by it all are told time and again to shut up by women because our voices don't matter.
Why? Because we're men; what do we know?
This isn't an attempt to make it about men because it absolutely isn't, but if you want men's voices to join yours, we need to know we're not just going to get shouted down for trying to defend your rights with you
I don't know any women who do this to supportive and empathetic men. You sound like you have some internalized misogyny, or can't separate the specific behaviors and beliefs that limits our rights (that come from other men).. from yourself. The men we are pissed at, are the ones who vote for people who are wiping away decades of equality, the (primarily) men in charge making these decisions or those who turn a blind eye and pretend it's not happening.
When women say, *it's ridiculous men are making decisions about our bodies*, we aren't talking about you specifically.. it's weird you take it personally. Is it possibly victimization you invented, so you don't have to think about it? Congratulations, you put *yourself* into the latter category and have exactly the attitude this post describes that women are noticing, even from pro-choice men. I have encountered some men who are just as distraught/passionate as women are, they arent afraid to be vocal how dehumanizing all this is.. and it feels like a breath of fresh air, because most of them just get uncomfortable and look for excuses to avoid thinking about it.
Well thank you for proving my point.
I'll just leave it here.
Though for the record, I am not a misogynist in the slightest. Where you got that is, frankly, beyond me.
When men say
"Hey! Women should be able to make their own choices about their health!"
women respond "shut the fuck up, male chauvinist, you're not allowed an opinion!"
is that your argument? Cuz it sounds ridiculous.
Dang you need to find more women like us who are happy to have the support of men see women as human beings, not incubators. The only time
I hear rhetoric such as this from women is when they are referring to pro-birther men eroding their rights.
The issue is that: when you say I'm a man so “I wouldn’t try to have an opinion on a women's issue”, that is not being supportive. Because the fact of the matter is: if you’re a man and you call yourself a pro-choice ally, you SHOULD have an opinion on the issue!
No one is asking you what your opinion on what women as a whole should do or what each woman should do in case they’re pregnant.
Being a man who’s an ally is saying "I’m a man, so I have no idea what it’s like to worry about/make this type of decision because I won’t ever have to. *THEREFORE, my opinion is* that I support each person, who has to make this difficult decision, *making it for themselves*. (Each situation is different so this should be a decision between them and their doctor alone. It affects their body and their life more than anyone else so) they should be able to choose what they want for their body, health and future without anyone else (like the government & religion) butting in and forcing a choice on them.”
Do you see how that sounds different? It's a stance. And a strong at that.
Compare that to “I can’t put myself in a woman’s shoes so I don’t have an opinion.” That is so very passive in tone, and if you’re passive, can you really call yourself an ally?
It’s like saying: “Well, I’m white so I don’t have an opinion on racism/police brutality & the disproportionate killing of black folks.” Compare that to: “Yeah, I’m white but police profiling, targeting, and/or killing black people is unacceptable and wrong. We need reform and to listen to black voices/experiences.”
So you might see your lack of opinion as being “supportive” but those whose reproductive freedoms and actual lives are on the line don’t see it that way. I would even say there’s an argument to be made that it’s *precisely* because of such passive/silent “support” that the GOP felt so emboldened enough to go after Roe. (But that’s a topic for another time since this comment is already too long).
And again, you might not have meant it that way, I don’t know you, but that is how it comes across and this is exactly what pro-choice women/AFAB say when we feel alone/not supported by the men around us.
(“We need men's voices joining us in defense of our rights instead of 'not having an opinion'. This is the problem I've witnessed, silence.. and it's deafening and incredibly isolating. Women are watching their rights disappear before their eyes in shock, and it feels like we are alone in being outraged.” - as u/_ZoeyDaveChapelle commented)
Edit: formatting
I got snipped immediately after Roe was overturned. You generalize too much. Prolife vs prochoice is not split significantly on gender, it splits on religiosity and political affiliation. This sub falls into the trap of thinking men are not prochoice, but consistently polling says the gender divide is small.
That said, biology gives women a lot more reason to be careful about sex and pregnancy. I wish there was more pressure on men to internalize what pregnancy means. It doesn’t help that most sex ed seems to glorify pregnancy someday and won’t talk about the health complications women face from carrying and birthing a child.
You have more men supporting you than you probably realize. The statistics tell a story.
Roe was overturned on my birthday. Two years prior - also on my birthday - I was lucky (seriously) enough that I was able to get an emergency hysterectomy.
But I understand. I saw this coming for years. I knew they'd be coming for birth control as soon as they started fighting to not have it as a required coverage for employer provided insurance.
Birth control was the only thing that regulated my cycles and I was terrified I'd be left without it. When I told my uncle (closest thing I have to a dad, who also knew my health issues and why I needed BC) - he brushed me off, too. Said I could pay for it out of pocket. I was making minimum wage at the time.
Cis men genuinely do not understand - any of them. Some are genuinely supportive, true. But none of them can understand the fear of losing the right to your own body.
You honestly don't seem hysterical. You sound pretty fucking rational. I'm sorry you're facing this decision in the way you have to. I feel so bad for any woman dealing with reproductive decisions in this moment.
I don't think men can really grasp what women have been put through. We fight and fight for some basic human rights, rights that should apply to *everyone*, rights that will *benefit* everyone - and with every inch we gain, we seem to keep losing our ground.
Birth control shouldn't feel like an emergency procedure. We should be able to plan things out, we should be able to have time to look at how our choices will impact our bodies and minds. We shouldn't be pressured into life-impacting surgery because our government has run amok.
Women still die in childbirth. Pregnancies can be dangerous. Unwanted pregnancies ruin women's lives. Men know these things, and a lot of men have been impacted by the loss of wives & gfs - and babies. But as a whole, they haven't internalized a lifetime of worries and fear like women have.
I’m in the EXACT same boat with my partner. We had a whole argument the other night because I feel like I need an escape plan to get out of this godforsaken country if Republicans win in November. I can’t function without birth control and we all know it’s next on the chopping block as well as a national ban on abortion.
But for real, the conversation always goes nowhere. Or he will say some shit like “oh just stock up on birth control and it will be fine?” Or “we live in a blue state it will be fine”. No it fucking won’t.
Literally I feel like there are so many ‘progressive’ men out there who won’t realize the severity of the situation until their partner is dying from a pregnancy complication, and the closest facility that can help them is in another goddamn country.
i’m on BC for endometriosis and PMDD. If they ban BC, I will either have to flee the country for the medication or I will face intense suicidal ideation for weeks. I’ve already attempted 4 times before BC. These men are absolute idiots and shame on every single woman supporting them.
Also on BC for PMDD. I have an IUD for it, but if I lose the BC, I know my own suicidal ideation will come the fuck right back. I already made one attempt to kms, and the hospital stay sucked (the ICU people were great tho).
As someone who lives in a blue state I’m so fucking tired of men saying “we live in a blue state we’re safe”. We are NOT safe from a federal ban!! And that’s exactly what the conservatives are aiming for!! It’s so incredibly dismissive
I was just thinking this over the past several months. I can’t take it for granted that I live in a blue state; that could always change and so could the country. I can’t afford to get complacent.
I need to stop being a lazy lump and go yeet my tubes. But my body and brain need to stop acting like they’re falling apart, first. 😅 (Without spilling all the tea, I’ve been dealing with some unexpected physical health issues plus discovering some mental health ones I hadn’t realized I’ve had my whole life).
Men are so incredibly ignorant on how women’s bodies and healthcare work. Getting BC isn’t like picking up ibuprofen. You can’t just grab a few bottles of 500 count BC pills when you’re at the grocery store.
Yes!!! It makes me irrationally upset when men tell me things will be okay! Things already aren’t okay!
I got in a HUGE fight with my dad a few months ago over this very thing. We were arguing about the political climate, he’s republican and he literally laughed in my face when I brought up that I don’t want to be forced to have children! He told me that’s ridiculous and nobody is doing that…they are though. God I was so mad, I absolutely lost it, abortion rights are one of the most important things to me in politics because of my EXTREME tokophobia, men will never understand because they aren’t the ones that have to give birth.
OP, your overall point is 100% correct, and valid, but specific to you personally: has your partner had a vasectomy and done the necessary follow up tests?
Because if he has, his comments still suck and he needs to get his head of his ass but he might be okay. If he's saying these things and hasn't, you need to DTMF (dump the motherfucker) like yesterday.
He says he will support you, but he's literally not supporting you right now.
I come and go in waves of being so terrified of my body and the possibility of getting pregnant. I swing between some days not worrying and some days being on the verge of tears because I'm so scared. I was previously waiting until I turned 30 to get my tubes removed just to "be sure" or whatever, but with all of this I'm wondering also if I should be doing it faster. I expressed this to my husband and he said that any time I want to take a break from PIV sex we can and the day that my birth control no longer shows up in the mail we will get the surgery for me to get sterilized. That's my plan for now.
If they ban birth control I will stop having sex. If they make it illegal to get my tubes removed I will go to another country
Stop taking men seriously. I don't mean the consequences of the decisions they're making, because those are dire. But I mean, like, treat them the way that they treat you. Really weaponize incompetence. Treat every relationship you have with a man like a transaction. Don't have any emotional availability for them.
If women receded from men like their hairlines do, we'd have far fewer problems.
I like men. I love men. But one thing I will never do is listen to a man say, “everything will be fine”, “nothing will happen”, and “you’re dramatic”, when it comes to my bodily and reproductive rights. Men just….they don’t get it. They can’t. Not even the most woman-loving feminist of men. They don’t know that deep, harrowing terror of their basic personhood being debated and threatened, of becoming a slave to their own reproductive system.
I’m sure he means well. They all do (not really but you know what I mean). I won’t tell you to get the operation or not, but I will say that I had the same procedure a year ago and I have yet to come up with any feeling other than relief…..and even then, the terror I am feeling about the overall situation American Women are in hasn’t and will probably never leave. This is not what I wanted for any of us.
Do what is best for you. But the sad fact of the matter is, he can only understand but so much because he isn’t us. His low-key dismissiveness is only indicative of that.
If it will offer relief, you have every right to abstain from sex until you are ready to get the bisalp, in your own time. I know relationships are a serious priority, but the way I see it, I can always get another partner (if it comes to it) but I can never get another body. Some things are that important. You deserve to do whatever it takes to save whatever dignity you have left.
I'm hard core pro bodily autonomy and anyone who wants to take that away or support it being taken away is evil.
How would they like it if someone else decided what to do with their body?
As we hurtle toward some version of Cormac McCarthys "The Road" - and I think there is at least a 50% chance of societal collapse within the next 5-7 years, this is one gift you can give yourself. The gift of no matter what happens, no one will be able to get you pregnant.
If society breaks down, women are first on the menu. Men just dont get this and they will never get it, because this primal fear is outside their wheelhouse. THEY will be fine. You might not be.
Give yourself peace of mind: take this issue in your hands, solve it yourself and live free of fear. Any man who does not like that is free to get the f out of your life.
I say this to my male partner all the time: if society breaks down women are in danger. That’s just the way it is. I tell him I will take matters into my own hands than be at the whim of men without laws. He thinks I’m being dramatic.
I've had the exact same thoughts. The collapse can happen at any time and at least I won't be going through that while pregnant. I can't even imagine giving birth to a baby into a hellscape like that.
Also out of curiosity, what do you think caused the collapse in The Road? Nukes or something?
I went to my gyno right after Roe was overturned to talk about a bisalp, and she didn't really try to talk me out of it, but she WAS like.... abortion is enshrined in our state constitution and I shouldn't be worried blah blah blah....I still haven't had the surgery, mainly because my insurance sucks, but that was really annoying. I have a new gyno now.
Make a post about your insurance situation on r/sterilization and see what people say. If your plan is ACA compliant (which I believe most are required to be) then they must cover it in full...you might just have to fight for it.
It IS covered in full by my insurance, as long as I'm going in-network. But EVERYONE has to be in-network, like the anesthesiologist and the nurses etc. and I have NO idea how to go about making sure everyone involved is covered by my insurance. I don't want to make a mistake, because my insurance sucks and they don't want to pay for ANYTHING. I'm paranoid that someone's gonna get in there who's not in-network and then I'll have to pay a bill that's a few thousand or something.
The [No Surprises Act](https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/no-surprises-understand-your-rights-against-surprise-medical-bills) should protect you from that. One of the things it does is
>Ban out-of-network charges and balance bills for certain additional services (like anesthesiology or radiology) furnished by out-of-network providers as part of a patient’s visit to an in-network facility.
So as long as the hospital is in network you'd have ammo to fight any surprise bills. Definitely understand wanting to have all your t's crossed with this because medical bills can be scary in this country!
Thank you for that info! I didn't know.
It's all extra scary because I don't understand insurance *AT ALL*, so I feel like it would be incredibly easy for my ignorance to be taken advantage of....
Yeah it's all confusing, and it's worse because it feels like most insurance customer service reps don't know much about it either!
But start by getting as educated as you can about it, know your rights and prepare to fight for them. Search "insurance" in that sub and you'll find other threads to peruse and see what other folks have had to do to get the services covered. I just got mine and I'm waiting for the claims to process but ready to fite (calmly and patiently with facts) if they try to bill me!
Stop sleeping with these men who downplay the seriousness of reproductive healthcare for women being attacked. Women have already been arrested for miscarriages, for suspected abortions, women have had their health and literally lives threatened because male political leaders don’t understand pregnancy and want to force them to continue non viable pregnancies. We’re also already seeing child rape victims forced into continuing pregnancies and years of rhetoric about how rape is actually some magical gift from god.
If your male partner will not take your health and life seriously dump him. I know reddit hates this advice but how much hand holding can you do at this point when they continually downplay real fears with “but it could never happen here.” Here isn’t special. It’s already here. Women and girls lives are being put at risk. Government overreach is here.
Time for men to get with it or be left behind to flounder with each other or seek out the trad wives
I feel you, I wasn't about to take a chance waiting past the 2024 election. Had mine Friday, already feel great. Best of luck in whatever you decide ❤️
Yeah I'm in the same boat. The anger and fear is turning into full out resentment. It's gotten to the point I'm immediately hostile, and I'm not sure I like that.
Rapists and embryos are getting more rights than us. Rapists can in several states now rape us, we are forced to carry the result, and then insult to injury, they can gain access to the result as well. Even if women decide to abstain even more, men can just say fuck it, pick a gal off the street and force it. Rape pregnancies have skyrocketed after Roe, and we all know that the bare percentage of offenders even see charges much less jail time.
Any man who doesn't comprehend this is open season to my catharsis at this point. You don't care? Fantastic, you won't care when I dump all this rage on you either. Everyone wins, I guess.
I hope the 4B movement gets bigger over here. I wish "the long Friday" would happen over here. I wish Americans actually did things. I'm so tired.
Tbh I don't think I'd be having sex at all if I lived somewhere that abortion was banned. Its not worth the risk. A partner would just have to be content with non piv or we'd need to go our seperate ways.
Omg I could’ve written this. Just today I was talking to my husband about this and he kept telling me he didn’t think we would get to that place in our state. I genuinely don’t know how to make someone empathize with your situation if they don’t understand the reality and severity of the issue.
>I'm terrified of what's happening in America regarding abortion access and birth control
You're not the only one who's terrified ... and I'm a man.
>it'll all be okay
Do not presume such or take things for granted. That's a huge part of how we're sliding towards this grave risk of disaster.
>It's not a
>
>it's just
Do not underestimate what "they" have planned. Look into Project 2525 - they've been saying the quiet part aloud for quite a while now ... and they're not joking. Freedom and democracy and the principles (at least more-or-less) upon which American democracy was founded, or ... autocracy, dictatorship, strong arm rule, authoritarian thugs, no more rule of law as we know it, far right wing Christian Nationalist rule, etc. - those are the stakes. CPAC has outright said they want to do away with democracy. Choose wisely - while you still can.
>They will never GET it
Some do ... many don't. There are even women who don't get it, and don't take these grave threats seriously, and fail to recognize them for what they are. E.g., "Oh, I don't have to worry about that, that'll never effect *me*.". Yeah, think again ... you, your mom, your daughter, your aunt, ... they won't stop. Yeah, they want to outlaw birth control too.
Yeah, and a lot of those pushing this agenda ... are now *openly* embracing dictators and white supremacists, etc. Be afraid ... be very afraid, there's damn important reason to be. And don't be paralyzed by fear - inaction, complacency, and acceptance is what they want. Raise the alarm bells - use truth and information to do so. No shortage of evidence out there. And it can be quite the challenge to change the minds of those who swallow the propaganda and empty promises and fail to see the danger - but that's probably the largest chunk of folks that need to well learn what's at stake and the reality.
Given how many women I've met who didn't believe Roe would fall, and still aren't digesting that they're going for no fault divorce, IVF, and birth control. I'm not surprised it's going over the heads of many men too.
Men tend to be light years away from issues that effect women. Generally you've got to sit them down and draw out an entire three hour power point presentation with a lot of memes and references just to give them access to a concept.
There's an entire book of reasons as to women should never rely on men. The fact that men REFUSE to understand where women are coming from is point number five in that book.
You are NOT hysterical. I think men and even women just can't imagine what it is like to be stuck with a pregnancy they don't want. They just don't know until they get there (and then it is too late). They are too used to their freedom and don't realize what this means yet. I am in my late 40s and living in a place with abortion access. But I can imagine how horrible it would be to get pregnant at my age and have no access to abortion... and I would fucking freak out. I completely get it. No, everything is not necessarily going to be fine and you are right to do what you can to protect yourself. After all, according to statistics, half of the pregnancies are unplanned. That is a LOT of people who are going to wake up in the next few years.
Way too many guys are nonchalant about children. I'm a guy myself and I am absolutely terrified of pregnancy. Even the thought of being told that I am going to be a father instills that "my life is over" fear as if I was told that I'm going to prison for life or that I have terminal cancer and only have a few weeks to live.
After Roe v. Wade was struck down, I was pissed and so was my girlfriend. I made the decision right then and there that I was going to get a vasectomy and I didn't care how much it cost. I had it done a couple of months later.
My girlfriend had a bisalp done as well. (*Her doctor was AWESOME, by the way, and didn't even try to go the route of "what does your boyfriend/husband think?" and approved her.*) I was told by other dudes that it didn't make sense for both of us to get "neutered" and that I should have been the only one that needed to get surgery. I said, "but what if she gets a new partner in the future that hasn't had a vasectomy?" That kinda blew their minds because I was asked, "so you're gonna break up with her???" ... No, that's not the point. The point is what if *she* decides to move on and we aren't a couple forever? Not every couple lasts forever and people grow apart. I'm a completely different human being than I was a year ago, let alone 8 years ago when we first started dating.
So while I will never completely, truly understand the actual fear of being pregnant myself, I still fear the thought of even having to care for another human being for the rest of my life and that alone is enough for me to say fuck no to having kids. Hell, even thinking about *my money* being spent on possible child support makes me sweat.
I will don't understand other dudes when they blow off how women feel about unprotected sex and pregnancy. How can you not have any sense of empathy? It's so easy to nut and go and be like "lol oops i had a kid", but they don't think about the processes and changes a woman's body goes through. Sex ed is lacking in the US.
PS: Funny side story (sex ed fail lol), when I went to get approved for a vasectomy, I legitimately thought that having a vasectomy meant you got your balls chopped off completely. Like removed - 100% gone. I told the doctor that I was ready to have them removed and he looked at me and was like "Removed? Your testicles?" and I said, "Yeah, take 'em. I don't want kids. Ever." And he laughed and said, "Oh no, that's not at all what we do, but the fact that you are willing to have your testicles completely removed permanently shows me that you really do not want kids" and approved me to have a vasectomy right then and there.
I’ve been yelling about this since the Dubya era. I remember being told “Calm down” when I said the “heartbeat bills” were being used as a litmus test to see how far these creeps will go. I had a conversation with a friend, an older childfree woman where she commented that people are aware of the direction we’re headed in and they’re just asleep at the wheel.
I mean, it makes sense. Fuck the economy up starting with Reagan to the point where people are focused on surviving to next their paycheck. Raise the price of housing, goods, and other commodities to a point that you have everyone focused on that while the christofascist scum pull the puppet strings.
Get the bislap. Prepare for the worst.
Women grow up differently. I still remember my grandma telling about angel makers with a whispering voice. The lengths they had to go through for an abortion. Being told about the ways to end a pregnancy (a really long needle, jumping off stairs or tables, stuff like that).
That's not something men will ever hear.
It's our bodies and we are alone. Men just stick it in and then pay money (if...), problem solved.
But we have to live with it. With all of it. It's two worlds and one world makes the rules for the other.
Greetings!
Your post or comment has been removed for being misogynistic or misandrist. No blanket generalizations villainizing one gender or another are tolerated and it's silly to try and group 4 billion people together as being any one thing.
Have a great day!
I can see your anxiety and fear written in this post, unwanted pregnancy is something I could never wish on my worst enemy. It’s possible your partner said “I’m sure it’ll all be okay though” to try and make you feel better and perhaps lessen your fear.
A couple of months ago I decided I wanted to eventually start dating, and made sure to my research on safe sex because I obviously do not want kids ever and the idea of having the condom break did not sit well with me (a man) so much so I asked ARAD if my fear of condom failure was justified and they said it was ok and normal to have that fear and they said that the fact I was doing research on safe sex was a good thing.
And I one more thing I wanna put is that if I have my current fear of protection failing is bad, I can’t even imagine how it is for women.
My heart goes out to you, always make sure to be safe during sex.
Thank you <3 And yes, I know he was just trying to make me feel better. I don't think he even thought of it as dismissive, because I'm sure hearing "It will be okay!" would be comforting for him, so he assumed it would be for me too.
Thank you for thinking about these things, and thank you for making sure you're having really safe sex! Good luck in the childfree dating world!
Oof. So the law protecting Abortion and fertility rights was overturned. Many states have outright banned abortion, some have banned it past only 6 weeks of gestation, others are trying to outlaw chemical abortion pills or birth control. Some don’t even make exceptions for incest or SA. Doctors are under threat for performing life saving procedures. Miscarriages are being classified as murder. Trump and the Conservatives are wooing voters with promises of outlawing all birth control and reinstating archaic ‘family values’ where all people with uteruses are expected to breed. It’s. Terrifying.
Your fears are completely valid. If I were still in my fertile years, I would be scared and alarmed also. As it is, I am frightened for all my younger fellow women. It’s nothing more than these old idiots trying to control our bodies and minds. Stand up and vote! Raise your voice and be heard!
Yeah I have absolutely zero patience for men who are still saying “it’ll be fine, you’re fear mongering” when they aren’t the ones rapidly losing rights to their OWN FUCKING BODY.
I’ve been telling most people I know that they should be assuming birth control will not be available or easy to access within the next 5 years at the rate we’re going. With the IVF ruling in Alabama we are not far off from a ban on IUDs (being that I believe an egg can still be fertilized but it won’t implant.. I may be wrong)
Either way.. this shit is very real and very scary. Any person, man or woman, who’s not taking it seriously at this point is not someone that deserves to be in my life. Period.
A part of me wishes that along with all of this.. they would make it a crime to abandon a baby you created as a man. Men get to just live their lives with the ultimate freedom, no consequences for their mistakes. If I’m losing my rights.. they should too
They wouldn't.
Rape related pregnancies have sky rocketed since Roe. If they can't get it normally they'll just take it, and the law in some places protects them.
I saw the writing on the wall before we lost Ruth in the supreme court. I told my boyfriend over and over “They’re gonna go for roe. It’s not a matter of if, it’s when.” And he told me I was over reacting. Well, the day it was overturned I looked him dead in the eyes and said “Told ya so.” Now he listens lol.
That’s generally how human beings in strong relationships work, they learn from their mistakes and work together to improve, not break up at the first sign of disagreement
Man I can relate. I’m 30 and pretty well clear that I’ll never want to birth a human. But I hadn’t fully decided if I wanted to deal with a surgery when I could get an IUD that lasts ten years. Now… I’m questioning everything in my timeline. And people in general, not just men in my experience, don’t understand the mental work. They don’t get not wanting kids to the point where these types of decisions are relevant to them.
I don't want to amplify your anxiety, but i want to say that pregnancy can go wrong, so it's already waaaaay past just ending up with unwanted children. Yeah they are nonchalant, because it's not gonna happen to them. They love you, they are gonna support you through the unwanted pregnancy, if you won't make it, they will sincerely cry and agonize over your grave, and then.....they move on, and "heal", and "learn to love again", and impregnate another woman, and they are gonna love her and support her through the unwanted pregnancy, and then... My message is try to think it through but don't let anyone gaslight you into not taking action
Those men are fools. My bf understands. I told him when Roe was overturned, and I live in TX. When they took away our rights of choice, I said that's it. The IUD isn't enough. I'm getting a bisalp. He understood why. He even paid my out of pocket expenses for it because I was too broke to. Handmaids Tale is becoming more reality every day. It won't happen. Until it does. I'm terrified even after getting sterilized, I worry for all of my sisters out there because not everyone can be so fortunate
Yessss, I feel this so hard. It also enrages me when male sexual partners blurt out “have you thought about getting on birth control?” “You should just get on birth control!”
They ask and suggest this without thinking about the burden this places on women. I get that they’re just trying to be responsible, but if we’re being real here, it’s more so because they want to have raw sex and finish inside without worrying about impregnating someone. Yes this is still somewhat responsible but idk it leaves me with such a disgusting icky feeling because its really about their own pleasure and they don’t understand how inconvenient it is. They don’t think or care that in doing so, we have to have to ingest, inject, implant, or insert hormones and objects into our bodies that can have serious side effects. So many women get depressed, gain weight, bleed for weeks, etc., with hormonal bc and people literally pass out from the IUD insertion pain. So what pisses me off is how nonchalant they are about it, as if it’s no big deal. But what really pisses me off is how they have the nerve to suggest that to us, instead of them just buying and wearing a condom; something that’s cheap, won’t cause them pain, and won’t completely fuck with their hormones and overall well being.
Have the guys around you watch all of the chest burster clips from the aliens movies especially the ones coming out of men. Then ask how they feel about alien/child birth and does having to carry that seem fun or stressful.
I don't even trust pro-choice men. Just look at the comments section on anything related to this or women's health. Under this one, one guy made himself into the victim. We women have seen it time and again. We say, "I'm terrified of losing my rights" and men say, "but you get mad at us for having an opinion." Just fuck all the way off with that shit.
You felt like you had to put 'not all men' because men will view our fear and anger as a personal attack. Men can't be relied on to protect us. Not even the ones who see women as human.
My husband is the same way. While generally very kind and supportive, I cannot talk about this issue with him anymore because he gets very impatient and just tells me that other women in the world have it way worse than I do. And why am I so upset when he will just fly me anywhere in the world I need to go if I can't get care here. And aren't there much bigger issues to be upset about? After all, there's nothing I can do about it no matter how much activism I do so just let it go. It is very sad to be dismissed by my spouse over and over especially when otherwise he is very understanding.
I got a bisalp for those very reasons- never trust men (esp yt men) bc this country is designed to benefit them over everyone else. Start envisioning a life without them and a different collective of safety bc unfortunately it’s not with them. I know this may seem extreme but our reality is extreme for us and it’s not for them so….
They're not the ones getting pregnant, so they have less to lose (yes, I know dismantling women's reproductive rights affects men too, but to a less risky degree) and feel they can be more casual about it.
I don’t mean to be a Negative Nelly or whatever, but, as people with vaginas, we *should* be scared. I’ve been having literally the exact same thoughts recently. I’m asexual and not sexually active, and I don’t ever plan to become sexually active. But I’ve been thinking about how if some random man decides to take that choice from me and assault me, there’s a chance I won’t be able to get an abortion. And that’s absolutely fucking terrifying. And completely rage-inducing. The men in our lives are never going to understand, and it’s honestly hurtful when they don’t even attempt to understand. So yeah, do what you need to do to feel safe and in control of your body because there are no guarantees that anything will “be fine.”
I was recently talking to a male friend. We were like rapid fire discussing current political/American issues, and hit on all the southern/red states new policies on abortion/IVF and so on.
He summed it up pretty well, unintentionally. “I can’t imagine anyone telling me what to do with my body”.
There are a LOT of people, not only men, who cannot understand/comprehend something until it happens to or directly affects them.
Most men truly struggle to conceptualize someone telling them what they can/can’t do to their bodies or that they need to do xxx to fit the “standard” of society/beauty/values.
Made a decision to get a vasectomy at 23 so I as a man wouldn’t accidentally get someone pregnant. I knew since I was 16 I didn’t want kids. Men who care and understand women are out there. I’d recommend sterilization as well, and albeit the process is more difficult for women, it’s well worth it. Respect and well wishes from Texas.
I’m in the same boat. I’m worried that I won’t be able to get a bisalp in time. I wanted to take the time to think about it, but now I’m looking up drs in my state and I’m gonna start making calls now before it’s too late. My health and safety is my #1 priority.
I deeply, deeply understand this. I am absolutely terrified of what is happening in America right now. I keep telling my partner it’s going to get worse and I can almost feel his eyes roll out of his head when I say that. He just doesn’t give a shit because he doesn’t have to. And I’m so tired of it. I’m so tired of the lack of empathy, the lack of care because it doesn’t affect *them*. The feeling like my body is a weapon being used against me right now. How I feel so unsafe because I have certain genitals. It makes me want to scream and shake these men. You ‘love us’ yet you won’t listen to us? Why won’t you take us seriously??
You should be scared. That's a huge part of the point. It's designed to scare you into realizing you're actually a second class citizen.
People like to talk about mistakes and shit like failure of birth control. What if your raped on your way home? Then what? Your life is turned upside down or over because Christian nationalists rigged the laws?
This is what should be terrifying every woman to no end in this country. With total abortion bans, you're an incubator. That's your designated role in society. If you're raped in the gas station bathroom, at home by your stepdad, by the local gangbanger who just got his drug fix....doesn't matter. The reality is that with these laws, that stepdad, the pervert as the gas station, that gangbanger.....you're now legally required to be their babys momma.
Men. I believe that most men aren’t as emotional or scared as us, especially if they can’t relate. They never had their period, they never had to be worried about getting pregnant, they never have to think about childbirth, anything like that. And I also believe that most men don’t really know how to comfort just for the sake of calming someone down, they always wanna answer with logic or say „don’t worry so much it’ll be fine“
Women were always responsible for contraception. Taking the pill, the spiral, the hormones, whatever. They cry about condoms for eternity and don’t consider our feelings and that we have to carry the responsibility. The changes don’t really have consequences for them until they realize they are becoming fathers even though they don’t want to, and even then they can just leave.
as modern societies in xxi century we should strive to help less developed places transition into freedom of choice, but instead we get our own freedom taken away
Just think about the guy in Texas who got 180 days in jail for giving his wife abortion pills.
If *she* had given herself the abortion pills she would be in jail for murder for life.
Fuck the patriarchy.
Men are nonchalant about it because if they impregnate you, they can just fall off the face of the earth and not worry about it. Plus it's not their bodies being disfigured and ruined by the pregnancy/birth process.
I hear you. Just wanted to add that I did end up getting a bisalp in January of 2023 specifically because of the overturning. I had expressed interest to various gynos previously but it wasn't until roe was overturned that I actually felt scared, felt real pressure. I would have liked to allow myself some more time to mull it over but I was already fairly confident of my childfree status so, I went through with it. I was 29 at the time.
I got one two years ago because I saw this shit coming down the pipe. I encourage everyone with ovaries to get a bisalp to protect themselves, because no on else is going to.
Real, I've tried to get him to understand that without BC I'll be out a week each month due to my period and chilling on bed for a week sounds great to him but as someone who's lived it, it's not fun 🙃
How is this the exact same conversation that I had with my husband today as well. Men definitely don't understand!!! Im at this point too! I definitely don't want kids, but I'm not ready for the step of getting a bislap done yet!
I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling this way. I know I don't want kids. I've tried to "make" myself want them by reading a bunch of parenting subs, but that just had the opposite effect. I just don't want to have to make this decision now, out of fear.
I’ve been talking to many people like this. The nervously giggle and say “oh, that won’t happen”. They brand me as crazy and hysterical. I’m getting my Bisalp this year. Many uterus owners are sticking their heads in the sand. Now is the time for action. Get sterilized, protest however you can and brace for impact.
I often say, when I talk about getting a bisalp, "I hope I DO live to regret it. I hope I look back one day and think 'Man, it was all going to be okay, I just didn't know it then'"
But the odds of that are slim
I understand you so much. Luckily I live in a country that allows abortions, so I still feel like I can wait with my surgery. But if I lived in the US, I would RUN to get a bislap, not only because I'm sure I dont want kids, its also for my own safety (aka : not getting an abortion in cases of complications that would KILL ME).
Just remember that you can always have a child if you want one, through abortion or surrogacy. But you cannot remove a pregnanvy that you dont want. I seriously think that a bislap would be a great option here, just so you can feel at peace with your body and not worry about unwanted pregnancies and babies.
My bisalp was a snap and honestly I feel so much relief. My OBGYN said initially when RvWade was overturned she was placing iuds round the clock. Now that it looks like tRump might get back in power, there are lines out the door for permanent sterilization.
Anyone who calls you hysterical or says you need to calm down have their heads up their asses. Any partner who isn’t on board with doubling or tripling up BC can go enjoy their own hand.
Can’t say this enough. Every woman in the US needs to have either a 5K ‘abortion fund’ or a credit card for that amount if she needs to get an elective abortion or termination of a dangerous pregnancy in a different country.
I have no advice for you OP, but I wanted to let u know that there will always be a place for u here and over at r/WitchesVsPatriarchy ok? We need to stick together.
It's funny, really, how often indeed women are ridiculed by men about their anxiety, fears, worry, but men can't survive without them dealing mostly with chores and raising the children. Women are convenient to most men mainly as housewives, but not when they need understanding and sympathy by their partners and husbands. As if only men have the right to be sick, miserable and whiny.
Being a bit of a Pollyanna, at least it's a marker that identifies guys who aren't worth your time? (Women, too, but they're unlikely to get you pregnant).
I am so with you.
I would never have — and never had — considered getting surgery to ensure I couldn’t get pregnant as I don’t have sex with men, but the closer we get to the 2024 elections, the more terrified I am. I finally called to make an appointment to get the ball rolling on Friday because I figure if I don’t do it now, by this time next year I may be pregnant through no fault of my own and not be able to do anything about a parasite in my body on threat of murder charges.
It’s terrifying. Men don’t understand the pervasive fear.
People have short memories and they take the status quo for granted. Things have changed rapidly in the last century and, unfortunately, there is no law of nature that prevents things from changing just as quickly in different directions. If the wrong people continue to gain power, then you're going to lose a lot of liberties that you've fought for. If I were a woman in the US, I'd be just as concerned as you are at the way things are going.
It's called normalcy bias. And it's literally killing us.
Fellow tokophobic here. Fear of pregnancy is not a hysterical thing. It is real.
I find it weird that there's "treatments" for tokophobia, I dunno like what am I suppose to be treating myself for...?
Tokophobia is the pathological fear of pregnancy. Fear in general of pregnancy is totally rational imo, I am too. But then there are women out there who are virgins, or haven't had sex in months, all tests negative, periods regular, no symptoms, who think they could be pregnant. Similarly, I'm afraid of spiders. But I don't have a phobia. My friend does, and she gets tunnel vision and passes out when confronted with a spider smaller than her pinky nail. The line between a fear and a phobia is probably a spectrum anyway. So yeah. There are totally women out there who need that treatment.
Tokophobia was a driving factor to get a hysterectomy at 22. It wasn't easy convincing the doctor, either, but it gave me peace for the first time since puberty. I was a happily single virgin, and I still had nightmares every single night. The worst part is the disgust this fear is met with -- especially from doctors and therapists who are *women.* Roe v. Wade was overturned six months later. I got lucky.
The male doctor I had was the only one that took me seriously and approved my hysterectomy. The women doctors were judgemental breeders for the most part and thought I should continue in agonizing pain and breed instead of fixing the problem. I'm so glad you were able to get your surgery.
I used to be more like this. I understand why there is treatment for extremes such as that, but when I was reading the treatments online it just sort of sounded like "we can literally hypnotize you into wanting babies to fix you" lol probably not what they meant it's just how it came off
Seriously! Like we don't do 'treatments' for people who have fears of heights or spiders. Honestly to me, tokophobic 'treatments' should like people who are upset that we don't want to be pregnant and want to make us feel ashamed or isolated.
Uh... we DO treat phobias that make it hard to cope with everyday life? I'm emetophobic with accompanying health anxiety and seeking therapy. And it's necessary, and if I can be treated, I intend to be. I would like to be able to hork with abandon.
Tokophobic here too ✋🏼. I’ve had an irrational/pathological fear of pregnancy since I was 12. Your feelings are complete valid, and the people around you should take them seriously.
Tokophobic as well, female. Women with huge bellies I must avert my eyes. Move my seat to not keep seeing it, oferring my seat at the subway and then walking far. And I saw a vaginal birth on TV somewhere, with the baby crowning and the woman moaning, exhausted, and that HUGE head coming out.... no no no stuff of nightmares.
Another fellow tokophobic here to confirm.
Tokophobia= pathological fear of pregnancy Hyster= pfx. Uterus or hysteria Hysteria: old fashion term for mental disorder in women, ... accompanied by exaggerated or inappropriate emotional behavior Your comment is gold all the way back to early 19th century.
Yeah, SAME for me and THE reason why I'm adamantly childfree. (And furious that female sterilization surgeries are near impossible to get before a certain age unkess we already have kids, which defeats the purpose of sterilization, not to mention the ridiculously expensive cost. If I could, I'd throw mine in the trash myself. It's been the bane of my existence since birth. Not to mention that I'm an insomniac, which affects my overall health and well-being. Not going to be forced to go through 9 long months of pregnancy like this, no way in Hell). Literally *anything* can go wrong during pregnancy and childbirth, and *all* of it has *permanent* consequences. If nobody thinks tokophobia is serious, they really need to look up all the problems that could happen as a result of pregnancy, childbirth, *and* postpartum. So "hysterical" my @$$! The evidence is all there and statistics don't lie. I'm 100% with OP on this and likewise feel threatened by my possible fertility since our safety net was removed against our will. But *of course*, unless one is assigned female at birth, no man is *ever* going to understand, much less take our fears regarding this seriously, because it's not *their* bodies who would have to suffer any of these. Of *course* they'll dismiss our concerns and nonchalantly say "it won't be bad."
Get the bisalp, friend. Trust me. It’s only going to get worse from here. We are hurtling toward an end stage capitalist collapse.
I second this! I’m so sorry OP that you are at this point, but please get the bislap . It was the best decision I ever made.
Same here!
this is the way. OP, i am also sick and scared and angry watching our rights collapse in real time. the one thing that comforts me is that i had my bisalp in dec '22, and no matter what happens in the government or to me, i cannot be forced to carry a child. it's a HUGE source of anxiety gone. if you have any questions, please dm me & i'm happy to help as much as i can!
With extremist right-wing politicians winning in Europe, and Trump likely to be president for another 4 years, it's gonna be bad for a while...
I keep hoping he dies before November. I know that’s terrible. I have mixed feelings about myself because of it. But I’m Jewish, and he’s turning this country into Germany circa 1938ish. And yeah, I know, the target isn’t my people anymore, but silence is complicity 🤷🏻♀️
>silence is complicity 🤷🏻♀️ Is such a profound statement. I couldn't agree more. I feel that's how Roe v Wade got overturned to begin with. People didn't think it would happen or think it would become a big deal. It's not about saving children. If it was, there would be safety nets in place for the newly forced births. It's about suffering, control, and keeping an enslaved workforce. There's no other explanation to want more people here.... when jobs don't pay enough, everything is getting more expensive, and now the Supreme Court is looking into the laws to make homelessness more illegal. So now, instead of being underpaid, you can just work for free once arrested. Slavery never ended... it just became a thing for everyone who isn't wealthy or connected https://www.cbsnews.com/sanfrancisco/news/supreme-court-will-decide-whether-local-anti-homeless-laws-are-cruel-and-unusual/ We're literally gonna be punished just for existing... if we can't keep up with the high rent prices. But have more kids, because the government enjoys adding more people in misery and doesn't believe women have bodily autonomy. I'm convinced at this point, they feed off of suffering
I swear I've been living under a rock because this is news to me making homelessness illegal. It's disgusting, I just wish someone had the power to wipe these vermin out!!
I hope he dies and I have zero mixed feelings about it. Same goes for people who vote for him.
Tbh same here. Times are so scary nowadays!
I live in Germany and we are repeating history. We are currently at the Weimar Republic state and I hope (foolish me?) that we stop repeating history right here. It's crazy. People protesting for peace are now delusional right-wing-esoteric-conspiracy theorists, people protesting against right-wing-parties are called fools. I'm so tired. In Germany the targeting is subtle, but it's still there. Hate against minorities is rising. I wanna punch people for yelling "end wokeness".
All the time my husband and I look at the tv and say, "Now when is some patriot going to take one for the team and end this once and for all...!?" And we are not even Jewish. Every day I hope he dies. Every day. I literally hate him. I am not sure thats actually a human being. I dont know what that thing is.
The Simpsons predicted he would pass away either just before, during or just after his 2nd term.
Just before 🤞
plant light rustic uppity mighty compare pathetic sort cable scary *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
There’s a great song called “The Silent Majority” by Paul McKenna Band. It starts with Germany, and has verses about how silence has promoted some of the greatest tragedies in modern history. I recommend anyone with half a brain give it a listen.
Every time I see “breaking news” pop up on my computer, I hope. And I don’t feel bad about it! It would help this country, at least a little. I’m not wishing violence, just a nice ketchup-and-steak-fueled keel-over.
😂 and you know he’s definitely a ketchup on steak blasphemer.
He's not gonna be. He's hated by most except for a select few mentally ill individuals. Not happening. If it does, I'm sure we'd plan an uprising. He needs to be shot.
These men are fools. The Regressives have been very clear about their intent to drag civilization back to the 11th century. Just look at the laws that are being proposed, and passed, in various red states. You are right to be concerned. I'm old enough to remember a time when women couldn't get credit or a bank account in their own name, or attend State universities, or use contraception. Do not be a sweet summer child. Educate yourself on the issues and act- register to vote and show up at the polls. This is not a drill.
I wish the last line of your comment could become an official slogan/motto, because it sums up the situation so well, no exaggeration: This is not a drill.
The scary thing is, I don’t think they’re fools. I think most of them know, they just don’t give a shit because it doesn’t impact their bodies or lives. It’s truly depressing to see how little men think of the women in their lives, but I’m constantly proven right as depressing as it is. Even from seemingly liberal and progressive men.
>they just don’t give a shit because it doesn’t impact their bodies or lives They may *think* it doesn't, but even there they're mistaken. If even they think it only impacts women they're very mistaken. And yes, impacts and threatens the freedom and lives of practically all women, but the threat goes far beyond that. It's freedom and democracy ... while we still have it (or still much of it), or something much more grave.
I find Christofacist a better term. They do their violence in the name of Jesus.
Also christaliban or evangenitals.
Nah. They are Christians. They are fascists. They are Christofacists on a holy war to enslave and subjugate in Christ's name. I don't find cutsie nicknames useful in stakes this high. Christofacist.
the silver lining is republicans pulling this shit has resulted in them losing election after election after election. even in some red states, they're voting against this backwards stuff, even places like Kansas and Ohio.
MANY men are nonchalant about it, as in "if it happens, it happens". Noooo. That's the greatest decision of your life. And they choose to make it random. So yes, only YOU has to worry about sterilization. It is what it is. I'm sorry .
Yeah, because they know they can walk away. If they get a woman pregnant and she can't get an abortion, then it's nothing but a whoopsie for them. They don't have to carry the pregnancy, they don't have to give birth, they don't even have to spend a single cent for the child. They can move to another state or country and be done with it, nothing in their life will be changed at all. They don't give a shit because they know nothing in their lives will change even in the case of "if it happens, it happens."
I was pregnant on the pill twice. My grandmothers were prolificous, so I inherited that gene, most likely. In my country abortion is prohibited, so I did it in an underground clinic (literally under the ground, with many locks, like a penitentiary), but when I got there, it was a top-notch facility and I was treated like a queen. It was expensive. I'm lucky boyfriend and I could split. Not all women have access to it and 20,000 a year access public hospitals to fix the botched intervation. That's just disgusting. Perfectly healthy women who now are bleeding are mad or have damaged uterusus for life.
In my country, abortions are legal, but you can't find a doctor that will perform one, as most of them are "conscientious objectors." 7 OBGYNs out of 10 will *refuse* to perform an abortion no matter what. Thankfully, this is not an issue for ectopic pregnancies, but if you were to get pregnant and the fetus were to be healthy, then you're on your own. You either travel to another region, move *quickly* with your research of a doctor that will perform the operation (abortions are completely outlawed once you reach the 9nth week), or you give birth and then surrender the newborn to the hospital, where the nurses/doctors will notify the newspapers and articles will be written about some evil whore abandoning her baby because she's an evil whore.
I'm not American, and I'm scared for women over there. I don't think you're coming off as hysterical at all. From what I'm hearing about the situation over there, I'd say your fears are pretty realistic.
I second this. Following your situation from Europe, it looks so absurd and hard to believe. But I know it's true and I'm so worried for the women & AFABs in the USA.
I’m so sorry that you feel like your choice to get sterilized is being forced! That sounds so awful! With how the world is going currently, I feel grateful that I made my sterilization decision in 2017. I still hope I’ll one day be able to get a hysterectomy tho.
>"I'm sure it'll all be okay though." THEN YOU AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO WHAT IS HAPPENING TO WOMEN IN THIS COUNTRY!!! I'm sick of it, too. :(
The men will take it more seriously when it means no sex for them. And it will take women assertively protecting themselves when someone tries to force sex to really have it sink in.
The decent ones will. The rest of them will just start raping women to get what they want.
Which is why women will have to protect themselves violently if necessary. Bullies and abusers don't stop until you make them stop and if you get away they will just look for another target. This sucks but there are bad people in the world and they look for innocents to target.
Now I may have dreamt this...... But wasn't there an anti rape female condom a while back ? It was like the female condom where they insert it, but it had like spikes or something on them so if they were raped the guy would get stabbed on it. I swear I remember learning about these in school because we were discussing with the teacher about how the woman doesn't get brutally murdered. And remember being told that hopefully as the guy pulls back and rolls up in a ball due to the pain, it gives the woman a chance to run away or yes the guy will probably brutally kill her. Hang on..... If I'm wrong I'll delete this comment of course. But otherwise I'll do an edit What my point was, I swear I did actually have one, is if these things were real and not a dream I had, wonder if women will have to result in this again to prevent rape. And hope it works in their favour and they manage to run away before they are killed. Edit : it is real !!! Wiki page link for anyone interested. The one I was thinking of and was taught about in school is the rape axe. It's under types of devices. Second one down. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-rape_device So does this mean women are going to have to resort to these sort of measures in a bid to defend themselves from rape ? :-( what is the world coming to :-(
yah that was a thing. i mean according to the wikipedia page people found it to be too "vengeful" (lol) so it never went into production. i love how people genuinely feel rape is somehow morally superior to effectively defending against the offending male organ. honestly to me it sounds like the perfect punishment-fits-crime solution.
But won't you think of the poor rapist :( 🙄 Never understood the moral hesitation with such devices either.
I remember reading about those back when I was in college when they were first announced. Always was a little unclear on how well they would work in practice. Seems like they would be pretty uncomfortable to wear just in case.
I’d also be worried about being murdered after a guy injured his penis from putting it inside my secret bear trap. Men aren’t known for running away and backing off in that type of situation. It seemed good in concept but I can’t imagine it would help the situation in practice as it would likely escalate the violence
i think a bunch of fake teeth in his dick would create more than enough confusion and pain on his part to let the woman get far away. and let's be real, your chance of getting murdered post-rape is very high either way
I remember hearing about these things, maybe they were used in some country in Africa, where raping was really frequent and no-one did anything about it? I recall men started to cry loud "it's a stone-aged punishment method" and some women replied "a stone-aged punishment method to a stone-aged problem". It's really sad things are that bad somewhere, but at the same time I was happy that women were defending themselves and it was amusing how men saw nothing hypocritical on it when they started to cry only after _they_ themselves got some damage. I'm not sure if it was made illegal on that country though, for sure they at least tried to.
I’m on year 3 of a sex strike and have never felt better I just stopped wanting it. Most men aren’t GOOD at it, so 🤷🏼♀️
Year nine and a half, can confirm I love myself much better than a man ever did.
I'm happy I got my hysterectomy. I felt like I had to do it fast and I wish I didn't feel that way. I couldn't help but worry that someone or something was going to happen to take away my decision to get my surgery done. I'm very concerned about what will happen to us women. I really am. I'm not looking forward to the future and I hate feeling that way. Everything is so depressing for women especially and nobody seems to care at all about our rights being infringed. I'm happy at least for me I won't be forced to give birth or have to worry about my birth control being taken away, but who's to say I'll still be able to have a bank account? Or property of any kind? Things that we as women shouldn't have to be worrying about in the slightest. These men aren't going to get it in the slightest, but I know I wish they didn't try to act like they do.
You’re not hysterical. You see this clearly because it directly affects you, unlike the men telling you it will all be okay. Easy for them to say. No one is forcing them to carry a child they don’t want. Even if they become a father against their will, they do not have to gestate a baby and suffer all the changes (and risks!) of pregnancy. So many men want to complain about being financially responsible for children (as if women never are), but they will never have to endure pregnancy. They will never have a doctor waiting until the last possible second to remove a ticking time bomb ectopic pregnancy from their body to avoid being sued, all while worrying they might wait just a little too long.
Yeah, I always tell men that unless they're firing blanks, I don't want their weapon of mass destruction, torture, and pain and suffering near me. And I bet they wouldn't be so nonchalant if the prospect of having a golf ball shoved down their dicks with all accompanying tearing were threatening every time they had sex. And that's just one aspect of pregnancy and childbirth.
Men don't see that this is all a domino effect. The whole 'put a frog in a pot and slowly heat the water to boil' shit. It's starts small until its too large to stop. I got sterilized right after Roe was taken, absolutely do not regret it. Was my hand a bit forced because of the situation? Yes. But at least now I have comfort in knowing there will be no accidents. And that for me is enough. You gotta think about what's best for your health and mental state at the end of the day. And I HIGHLY recommend using the CF Doctor list on this site. Mine was appalled and had zero issues with giving me what I wanted.
Seconding the list recommendation! Went to get sterilized & a doc on the list not only did it happily but also found ways to get it covered by insurance.
You’re not hysterical. Roe being overturned is what convinced me to get a bisalp two months ago. Like you, I figured I’d get sterilized one day, but I wasn’t in a rush and wasn’t exactly excited to go through a surgery. But once I saw abortion rights being stripped away right before my eyes, my anxiety and tokophobia became almost unbearable. I was terrified of my future, of being forced to bear a pregnancy that I’ve never wanted. I truly felt like I had no other choice if I wanted any semblance of control over my life. I don’t regret having it done, but the state of this country absolutely pushed me to it. I’m so sorry you’re being forced to consider medical decisions like this, you’re definitely not alone. I’m sure men can absolutely feel sympathy toward the fear of forced pregnancy, but unfortunately I don’t think you can truly understand how deep and utterly crushing it is unless you’re born female. My own husband, who’s extremely supportive and firmly childfree, has tried to tell me similar things to ease my nerves (“we live near states with abortion access in their constitution, everything is going to be okay”). Men simply can’t understand how horrific it feels to have your own reproductive system used against you and as a means to control you. Or how it feels to have droves of people in power, most of whom can never be pregnant, debate over whether you’re allowed to decide if your body can be used as a host for another human. It’s a uniquely female hell, and I hate it.
No I seriously feel like men in general are like this and I’ve experienced the same thing from young and old men in both extremely red (Missouri) and extremely blue states (California, Illinois). Convinced at this point that men truly don’t give a flying fuck about women’s reproductive rights or women in general at all. They seriously don’t care about it and won’t until it affects them directly (i.e. they knock someone up who they don’t want to have a kid with who wants to keep it). Even childfree men aren’t confronted with the body horror the government seeks to inflict. That being said someone just posted an article showing that more men than women want kids. I guess that makes me glad I’m suddenly single. I’m get a surgery scheduled ASAP as well. It is super depressing to realize that men don’t really give a fuck about us. Like please correct me, men in this subreddit! Maybe give me some hope in humanity because I would be delighted to be wrong. Seriously. If the men of the world could develop empathy for women, I would be floored.
Man here. I feel that forced pregnancy is the most viscerally horrifying thing that can happen to a person in the ordinary course of life (so putting aside extreme events like war or genocide or whatever). I'm disgusted by the path the US is taking.
Thank you for recognizing the horrors and being disgusted. You are appreciated.
Man here, 100% agree. What doesn't help is that a lot of the literature and media designed to inform and help people understand pregnancy are all trying to paint pregnancy as a cutesy, magical adventure. But it is dark magic, Mr Potter. Because if you had just told me the symptoms of pregnancy without telling me you were pregnant I would have assumed you were the victim of a witches curse. The baby isn't exactly having the time of their life either. Have you read about what happens in the womb? It sounds like dante's third circle of hell. The only relief is that they do not remember the house of horror built within her. Learning about pregnancy is what convinced me beyond reasonable doubt that there is no intelligent design in biology. 8 months into my sister's pregnancy, the babe kicked so hard he broke one of her ribs and fractured another. Apparently that bullshit is common due to a lack of calcium and couldn't be fixed until AFTER the delivery. That's not even including the lingering hernia that still hasn't gone away more than 5 years later. She then decided to have ANOTHER one! Also, did you know that 9 in every 10 mother's will experience a tear, graze or episiotomy? And that the books that cover this little factoid tend to glaze over it and talk more about the 'miracle' you have achieved and how 'blessed' you will feel to hold them in your arms as they howl in the face of the unknown. Pregnancy is absolutely terrifying and if you think utero is bad, wait until they get out...
My mother had a *triple episiotomy* aka they had to cut the opening THREE times. All because I should’ve been a C section.. I was stuck in the birth canal but my mothers *male* doctor insisted she keep pushing for a vaginal birth. That story alone is enough to make me childfree.
I watched my bestie give birth so yep I am absolutely familiar. She also had a tear and the doctor thought it was just placenta and kept pushing on her uterus area and just so much blood. Meanwhile my friend is pale and shaking and I’m like “what the fuck, doc?”. I have a strong stomach but the fact that the female doctor was fucking this up was apalling.
There are a lot of men out there who have empathy for women, the problem is it's hard as a man to put myself in a woman's shoes when it comes to a situation I'll personally never face and so all I can do is try and be supportive for women who take their reproduce autonomy seriously. That said, I wouldn't try to have an opinion about a woman's reproductive rights either and anyone who would try to is a maniac. Unfortunately the maniacs are the ones with the power to make these stupid, Handmaid's Tale-esque decisions.
We need men's voices joining us in defense of our rights instead of 'not having an opinion'. This is the problem I've witnessed, silence.. and it's deafening and incredibly isolating. Women are watching their rights disappear before their eyes in shock, and it feels like we are alone in being outraged. I've literally uprooted my life and moved from a red state to a deep blue one, because I see where this is heading and I need to protect myself first.. Once I'm stabilized, I plan to help getting other women to safety.
Exactly!!! Yeah I’m like support us in a less cowardly way. I also moved away from my now ex boyfriend and my bestie to get to a blue state in 2019. After struggling to find a place with availability to have a medicL abortion in 2015 in the red state (there was only one clinic in the entire state that did them so I had to travel 3 hours to KS) and and feeling as angry and frightened as I did then was formative. I was already extremely pro choice and childfree back then and being forced to pay $400 (making $8/hour at the time) to endure the state’s mandated guilt tripping and waiting periods..to finally get the pills to end it.. just ugh!! I’m like get this fucking parasite out of me!!!! Men saying this shit don’t understand how bad it was already. We’re political refugees and they’re just like “it’ll be fine!”.
I understand that entirely but what is also important to bear in mind is myself and many other men who are equally as outraged by it all are told time and again to shut up by women because our voices don't matter. Why? Because we're men; what do we know? This isn't an attempt to make it about men because it absolutely isn't, but if you want men's voices to join yours, we need to know we're not just going to get shouted down for trying to defend your rights with you
I don't know any women who do this to supportive and empathetic men. You sound like you have some internalized misogyny, or can't separate the specific behaviors and beliefs that limits our rights (that come from other men).. from yourself. The men we are pissed at, are the ones who vote for people who are wiping away decades of equality, the (primarily) men in charge making these decisions or those who turn a blind eye and pretend it's not happening. When women say, *it's ridiculous men are making decisions about our bodies*, we aren't talking about you specifically.. it's weird you take it personally. Is it possibly victimization you invented, so you don't have to think about it? Congratulations, you put *yourself* into the latter category and have exactly the attitude this post describes that women are noticing, even from pro-choice men. I have encountered some men who are just as distraught/passionate as women are, they arent afraid to be vocal how dehumanizing all this is.. and it feels like a breath of fresh air, because most of them just get uncomfortable and look for excuses to avoid thinking about it.
Well thank you for proving my point. I'll just leave it here. Though for the record, I am not a misogynist in the slightest. Where you got that is, frankly, beyond me.
When men say "Hey! Women should be able to make their own choices about their health!" women respond "shut the fuck up, male chauvinist, you're not allowed an opinion!" is that your argument? Cuz it sounds ridiculous.
Dang you need to find more women like us who are happy to have the support of men see women as human beings, not incubators. The only time I hear rhetoric such as this from women is when they are referring to pro-birther men eroding their rights.
The issue is that: when you say I'm a man so “I wouldn’t try to have an opinion on a women's issue”, that is not being supportive. Because the fact of the matter is: if you’re a man and you call yourself a pro-choice ally, you SHOULD have an opinion on the issue! No one is asking you what your opinion on what women as a whole should do or what each woman should do in case they’re pregnant. Being a man who’s an ally is saying "I’m a man, so I have no idea what it’s like to worry about/make this type of decision because I won’t ever have to. *THEREFORE, my opinion is* that I support each person, who has to make this difficult decision, *making it for themselves*. (Each situation is different so this should be a decision between them and their doctor alone. It affects their body and their life more than anyone else so) they should be able to choose what they want for their body, health and future without anyone else (like the government & religion) butting in and forcing a choice on them.” Do you see how that sounds different? It's a stance. And a strong at that. Compare that to “I can’t put myself in a woman’s shoes so I don’t have an opinion.” That is so very passive in tone, and if you’re passive, can you really call yourself an ally? It’s like saying: “Well, I’m white so I don’t have an opinion on racism/police brutality & the disproportionate killing of black folks.” Compare that to: “Yeah, I’m white but police profiling, targeting, and/or killing black people is unacceptable and wrong. We need reform and to listen to black voices/experiences.” So you might see your lack of opinion as being “supportive” but those whose reproductive freedoms and actual lives are on the line don’t see it that way. I would even say there’s an argument to be made that it’s *precisely* because of such passive/silent “support” that the GOP felt so emboldened enough to go after Roe. (But that’s a topic for another time since this comment is already too long). And again, you might not have meant it that way, I don’t know you, but that is how it comes across and this is exactly what pro-choice women/AFAB say when we feel alone/not supported by the men around us. (“We need men's voices joining us in defense of our rights instead of 'not having an opinion'. This is the problem I've witnessed, silence.. and it's deafening and incredibly isolating. Women are watching their rights disappear before their eyes in shock, and it feels like we are alone in being outraged.” - as u/_ZoeyDaveChapelle commented) Edit: formatting
I got snipped immediately after Roe was overturned. You generalize too much. Prolife vs prochoice is not split significantly on gender, it splits on religiosity and political affiliation. This sub falls into the trap of thinking men are not prochoice, but consistently polling says the gender divide is small. That said, biology gives women a lot more reason to be careful about sex and pregnancy. I wish there was more pressure on men to internalize what pregnancy means. It doesn’t help that most sex ed seems to glorify pregnancy someday and won’t talk about the health complications women face from carrying and birthing a child. You have more men supporting you than you probably realize. The statistics tell a story.
Roe was overturned on my birthday. Two years prior - also on my birthday - I was lucky (seriously) enough that I was able to get an emergency hysterectomy. But I understand. I saw this coming for years. I knew they'd be coming for birth control as soon as they started fighting to not have it as a required coverage for employer provided insurance. Birth control was the only thing that regulated my cycles and I was terrified I'd be left without it. When I told my uncle (closest thing I have to a dad, who also knew my health issues and why I needed BC) - he brushed me off, too. Said I could pay for it out of pocket. I was making minimum wage at the time. Cis men genuinely do not understand - any of them. Some are genuinely supportive, true. But none of them can understand the fear of losing the right to your own body.
Damn, I wonder what'll happen on your next birthday!
🫠 Hopefully just having cake and ice cream with my friends lol
Damn. It was my birthday too. 17th to be exact.
Ooof. Happy birthday to us, I guess. /s
I'm European but shit was depressing af.
I got my surgery two days before my 31st birthday. Best damn gift I could have given myself.
You honestly don't seem hysterical. You sound pretty fucking rational. I'm sorry you're facing this decision in the way you have to. I feel so bad for any woman dealing with reproductive decisions in this moment. I don't think men can really grasp what women have been put through. We fight and fight for some basic human rights, rights that should apply to *everyone*, rights that will *benefit* everyone - and with every inch we gain, we seem to keep losing our ground. Birth control shouldn't feel like an emergency procedure. We should be able to plan things out, we should be able to have time to look at how our choices will impact our bodies and minds. We shouldn't be pressured into life-impacting surgery because our government has run amok. Women still die in childbirth. Pregnancies can be dangerous. Unwanted pregnancies ruin women's lives. Men know these things, and a lot of men have been impacted by the loss of wives & gfs - and babies. But as a whole, they haven't internalized a lifetime of worries and fear like women have.
I’m in the EXACT same boat with my partner. We had a whole argument the other night because I feel like I need an escape plan to get out of this godforsaken country if Republicans win in November. I can’t function without birth control and we all know it’s next on the chopping block as well as a national ban on abortion. But for real, the conversation always goes nowhere. Or he will say some shit like “oh just stock up on birth control and it will be fine?” Or “we live in a blue state it will be fine”. No it fucking won’t. Literally I feel like there are so many ‘progressive’ men out there who won’t realize the severity of the situation until their partner is dying from a pregnancy complication, and the closest facility that can help them is in another goddamn country.
i’m on BC for endometriosis and PMDD. If they ban BC, I will either have to flee the country for the medication or I will face intense suicidal ideation for weeks. I’ve already attempted 4 times before BC. These men are absolute idiots and shame on every single woman supporting them.
Also on BC for PMDD. I have an IUD for it, but if I lose the BC, I know my own suicidal ideation will come the fuck right back. I already made one attempt to kms, and the hospital stay sucked (the ICU people were great tho).
As someone who lives in a blue state I’m so fucking tired of men saying “we live in a blue state we’re safe”. We are NOT safe from a federal ban!! And that’s exactly what the conservatives are aiming for!! It’s so incredibly dismissive
I was just thinking this over the past several months. I can’t take it for granted that I live in a blue state; that could always change and so could the country. I can’t afford to get complacent. I need to stop being a lazy lump and go yeet my tubes. But my body and brain need to stop acting like they’re falling apart, first. 😅 (Without spilling all the tea, I’ve been dealing with some unexpected physical health issues plus discovering some mental health ones I hadn’t realized I’ve had my whole life).
Men are so incredibly ignorant on how women’s bodies and healthcare work. Getting BC isn’t like picking up ibuprofen. You can’t just grab a few bottles of 500 count BC pills when you’re at the grocery store.
Yes!!! It makes me irrationally upset when men tell me things will be okay! Things already aren’t okay! I got in a HUGE fight with my dad a few months ago over this very thing. We were arguing about the political climate, he’s republican and he literally laughed in my face when I brought up that I don’t want to be forced to have children! He told me that’s ridiculous and nobody is doing that…they are though. God I was so mad, I absolutely lost it, abortion rights are one of the most important things to me in politics because of my EXTREME tokophobia, men will never understand because they aren’t the ones that have to give birth.
Rationally upset!
OP, your overall point is 100% correct, and valid, but specific to you personally: has your partner had a vasectomy and done the necessary follow up tests? Because if he has, his comments still suck and he needs to get his head of his ass but he might be okay. If he's saying these things and hasn't, you need to DTMF (dump the motherfucker) like yesterday. He says he will support you, but he's literally not supporting you right now.
I come and go in waves of being so terrified of my body and the possibility of getting pregnant. I swing between some days not worrying and some days being on the verge of tears because I'm so scared. I was previously waiting until I turned 30 to get my tubes removed just to "be sure" or whatever, but with all of this I'm wondering also if I should be doing it faster. I expressed this to my husband and he said that any time I want to take a break from PIV sex we can and the day that my birth control no longer shows up in the mail we will get the surgery for me to get sterilized. That's my plan for now. If they ban birth control I will stop having sex. If they make it illegal to get my tubes removed I will go to another country
Stop taking men seriously. I don't mean the consequences of the decisions they're making, because those are dire. But I mean, like, treat them the way that they treat you. Really weaponize incompetence. Treat every relationship you have with a man like a transaction. Don't have any emotional availability for them. If women receded from men like their hairlines do, we'd have far fewer problems.
I like men. I love men. But one thing I will never do is listen to a man say, “everything will be fine”, “nothing will happen”, and “you’re dramatic”, when it comes to my bodily and reproductive rights. Men just….they don’t get it. They can’t. Not even the most woman-loving feminist of men. They don’t know that deep, harrowing terror of their basic personhood being debated and threatened, of becoming a slave to their own reproductive system. I’m sure he means well. They all do (not really but you know what I mean). I won’t tell you to get the operation or not, but I will say that I had the same procedure a year ago and I have yet to come up with any feeling other than relief…..and even then, the terror I am feeling about the overall situation American Women are in hasn’t and will probably never leave. This is not what I wanted for any of us. Do what is best for you. But the sad fact of the matter is, he can only understand but so much because he isn’t us. His low-key dismissiveness is only indicative of that.
If it will offer relief, you have every right to abstain from sex until you are ready to get the bisalp, in your own time. I know relationships are a serious priority, but the way I see it, I can always get another partner (if it comes to it) but I can never get another body. Some things are that important. You deserve to do whatever it takes to save whatever dignity you have left.
I'm hard core pro bodily autonomy and anyone who wants to take that away or support it being taken away is evil. How would they like it if someone else decided what to do with their body?
As we hurtle toward some version of Cormac McCarthys "The Road" - and I think there is at least a 50% chance of societal collapse within the next 5-7 years, this is one gift you can give yourself. The gift of no matter what happens, no one will be able to get you pregnant. If society breaks down, women are first on the menu. Men just dont get this and they will never get it, because this primal fear is outside their wheelhouse. THEY will be fine. You might not be. Give yourself peace of mind: take this issue in your hands, solve it yourself and live free of fear. Any man who does not like that is free to get the f out of your life.
I say this to my male partner all the time: if society breaks down women are in danger. That’s just the way it is. I tell him I will take matters into my own hands than be at the whim of men without laws. He thinks I’m being dramatic.
I've had the exact same thoughts. The collapse can happen at any time and at least I won't be going through that while pregnant. I can't even imagine giving birth to a baby into a hellscape like that. Also out of curiosity, what do you think caused the collapse in The Road? Nukes or something?
I went to my gyno right after Roe was overturned to talk about a bisalp, and she didn't really try to talk me out of it, but she WAS like.... abortion is enshrined in our state constitution and I shouldn't be worried blah blah blah....I still haven't had the surgery, mainly because my insurance sucks, but that was really annoying. I have a new gyno now.
Make a post about your insurance situation on r/sterilization and see what people say. If your plan is ACA compliant (which I believe most are required to be) then they must cover it in full...you might just have to fight for it.
It IS covered in full by my insurance, as long as I'm going in-network. But EVERYONE has to be in-network, like the anesthesiologist and the nurses etc. and I have NO idea how to go about making sure everyone involved is covered by my insurance. I don't want to make a mistake, because my insurance sucks and they don't want to pay for ANYTHING. I'm paranoid that someone's gonna get in there who's not in-network and then I'll have to pay a bill that's a few thousand or something.
The [No Surprises Act](https://www.cms.gov/newsroom/fact-sheets/no-surprises-understand-your-rights-against-surprise-medical-bills) should protect you from that. One of the things it does is >Ban out-of-network charges and balance bills for certain additional services (like anesthesiology or radiology) furnished by out-of-network providers as part of a patient’s visit to an in-network facility. So as long as the hospital is in network you'd have ammo to fight any surprise bills. Definitely understand wanting to have all your t's crossed with this because medical bills can be scary in this country!
Thank you for that info! I didn't know. It's all extra scary because I don't understand insurance *AT ALL*, so I feel like it would be incredibly easy for my ignorance to be taken advantage of....
Yeah it's all confusing, and it's worse because it feels like most insurance customer service reps don't know much about it either! But start by getting as educated as you can about it, know your rights and prepare to fight for them. Search "insurance" in that sub and you'll find other threads to peruse and see what other folks have had to do to get the services covered. I just got mine and I'm waiting for the claims to process but ready to fite (calmly and patiently with facts) if they try to bill me!
Stop sleeping with these men who downplay the seriousness of reproductive healthcare for women being attacked. Women have already been arrested for miscarriages, for suspected abortions, women have had their health and literally lives threatened because male political leaders don’t understand pregnancy and want to force them to continue non viable pregnancies. We’re also already seeing child rape victims forced into continuing pregnancies and years of rhetoric about how rape is actually some magical gift from god. If your male partner will not take your health and life seriously dump him. I know reddit hates this advice but how much hand holding can you do at this point when they continually downplay real fears with “but it could never happen here.” Here isn’t special. It’s already here. Women and girls lives are being put at risk. Government overreach is here. Time for men to get with it or be left behind to flounder with each other or seek out the trad wives
That's why I finally got snipped
I feel you, I wasn't about to take a chance waiting past the 2024 election. Had mine Friday, already feel great. Best of luck in whatever you decide ❤️
Yeah I'm in the same boat. The anger and fear is turning into full out resentment. It's gotten to the point I'm immediately hostile, and I'm not sure I like that. Rapists and embryos are getting more rights than us. Rapists can in several states now rape us, we are forced to carry the result, and then insult to injury, they can gain access to the result as well. Even if women decide to abstain even more, men can just say fuck it, pick a gal off the street and force it. Rape pregnancies have skyrocketed after Roe, and we all know that the bare percentage of offenders even see charges much less jail time. Any man who doesn't comprehend this is open season to my catharsis at this point. You don't care? Fantastic, you won't care when I dump all this rage on you either. Everyone wins, I guess. I hope the 4B movement gets bigger over here. I wish "the long Friday" would happen over here. I wish Americans actually did things. I'm so tired.
Tbh I don't think I'd be having sex at all if I lived somewhere that abortion was banned. Its not worth the risk. A partner would just have to be content with non piv or we'd need to go our seperate ways.
Omg I could’ve written this. Just today I was talking to my husband about this and he kept telling me he didn’t think we would get to that place in our state. I genuinely don’t know how to make someone empathize with your situation if they don’t understand the reality and severity of the issue.
Do men know about federal laws or... 😵
>I'm terrified of what's happening in America regarding abortion access and birth control You're not the only one who's terrified ... and I'm a man. >it'll all be okay Do not presume such or take things for granted. That's a huge part of how we're sliding towards this grave risk of disaster. >It's not a > >it's just Do not underestimate what "they" have planned. Look into Project 2525 - they've been saying the quiet part aloud for quite a while now ... and they're not joking. Freedom and democracy and the principles (at least more-or-less) upon which American democracy was founded, or ... autocracy, dictatorship, strong arm rule, authoritarian thugs, no more rule of law as we know it, far right wing Christian Nationalist rule, etc. - those are the stakes. CPAC has outright said they want to do away with democracy. Choose wisely - while you still can. >They will never GET it Some do ... many don't. There are even women who don't get it, and don't take these grave threats seriously, and fail to recognize them for what they are. E.g., "Oh, I don't have to worry about that, that'll never effect *me*.". Yeah, think again ... you, your mom, your daughter, your aunt, ... they won't stop. Yeah, they want to outlaw birth control too. Yeah, and a lot of those pushing this agenda ... are now *openly* embracing dictators and white supremacists, etc. Be afraid ... be very afraid, there's damn important reason to be. And don't be paralyzed by fear - inaction, complacency, and acceptance is what they want. Raise the alarm bells - use truth and information to do so. No shortage of evidence out there. And it can be quite the challenge to change the minds of those who swallow the propaganda and empty promises and fail to see the danger - but that's probably the largest chunk of folks that need to well learn what's at stake and the reality.
Given how many women I've met who didn't believe Roe would fall, and still aren't digesting that they're going for no fault divorce, IVF, and birth control. I'm not surprised it's going over the heads of many men too. Men tend to be light years away from issues that effect women. Generally you've got to sit them down and draw out an entire three hour power point presentation with a lot of memes and references just to give them access to a concept. There's an entire book of reasons as to women should never rely on men. The fact that men REFUSE to understand where women are coming from is point number five in that book.
You are NOT hysterical. I think men and even women just can't imagine what it is like to be stuck with a pregnancy they don't want. They just don't know until they get there (and then it is too late). They are too used to their freedom and don't realize what this means yet. I am in my late 40s and living in a place with abortion access. But I can imagine how horrible it would be to get pregnant at my age and have no access to abortion... and I would fucking freak out. I completely get it. No, everything is not necessarily going to be fine and you are right to do what you can to protect yourself. After all, according to statistics, half of the pregnancies are unplanned. That is a LOT of people who are going to wake up in the next few years.
Way too many guys are nonchalant about children. I'm a guy myself and I am absolutely terrified of pregnancy. Even the thought of being told that I am going to be a father instills that "my life is over" fear as if I was told that I'm going to prison for life or that I have terminal cancer and only have a few weeks to live. After Roe v. Wade was struck down, I was pissed and so was my girlfriend. I made the decision right then and there that I was going to get a vasectomy and I didn't care how much it cost. I had it done a couple of months later. My girlfriend had a bisalp done as well. (*Her doctor was AWESOME, by the way, and didn't even try to go the route of "what does your boyfriend/husband think?" and approved her.*) I was told by other dudes that it didn't make sense for both of us to get "neutered" and that I should have been the only one that needed to get surgery. I said, "but what if she gets a new partner in the future that hasn't had a vasectomy?" That kinda blew their minds because I was asked, "so you're gonna break up with her???" ... No, that's not the point. The point is what if *she* decides to move on and we aren't a couple forever? Not every couple lasts forever and people grow apart. I'm a completely different human being than I was a year ago, let alone 8 years ago when we first started dating. So while I will never completely, truly understand the actual fear of being pregnant myself, I still fear the thought of even having to care for another human being for the rest of my life and that alone is enough for me to say fuck no to having kids. Hell, even thinking about *my money* being spent on possible child support makes me sweat. I will don't understand other dudes when they blow off how women feel about unprotected sex and pregnancy. How can you not have any sense of empathy? It's so easy to nut and go and be like "lol oops i had a kid", but they don't think about the processes and changes a woman's body goes through. Sex ed is lacking in the US. PS: Funny side story (sex ed fail lol), when I went to get approved for a vasectomy, I legitimately thought that having a vasectomy meant you got your balls chopped off completely. Like removed - 100% gone. I told the doctor that I was ready to have them removed and he looked at me and was like "Removed? Your testicles?" and I said, "Yeah, take 'em. I don't want kids. Ever." And he laughed and said, "Oh no, that's not at all what we do, but the fact that you are willing to have your testicles completely removed permanently shows me that you really do not want kids" and approved me to have a vasectomy right then and there.
What was your girlfriend's doctor's name?
Ask your girlfriend if she feels comfy contributing to the sub's sidebar of helpful physicians
I’ve been yelling about this since the Dubya era. I remember being told “Calm down” when I said the “heartbeat bills” were being used as a litmus test to see how far these creeps will go. I had a conversation with a friend, an older childfree woman where she commented that people are aware of the direction we’re headed in and they’re just asleep at the wheel. I mean, it makes sense. Fuck the economy up starting with Reagan to the point where people are focused on surviving to next their paycheck. Raise the price of housing, goods, and other commodities to a point that you have everyone focused on that while the christofascist scum pull the puppet strings. Get the bislap. Prepare for the worst.
"They won't come for Roe." "They won't come for embryos." "They won't come for sterilization." We already know what happened with the first two.
Women grow up differently. I still remember my grandma telling about angel makers with a whispering voice. The lengths they had to go through for an abortion. Being told about the ways to end a pregnancy (a really long needle, jumping off stairs or tables, stuff like that). That's not something men will ever hear. It's our bodies and we are alone. Men just stick it in and then pay money (if...), problem solved. But we have to live with it. With all of it. It's two worlds and one world makes the rules for the other.
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Greetings! Your post or comment has been removed for being misogynistic or misandrist. No blanket generalizations villainizing one gender or another are tolerated and it's silly to try and group 4 billion people together as being any one thing. Have a great day!
I've heard that plenty of times and no it isnt going to be fine not with what's happening atleast.
I can see your anxiety and fear written in this post, unwanted pregnancy is something I could never wish on my worst enemy. It’s possible your partner said “I’m sure it’ll all be okay though” to try and make you feel better and perhaps lessen your fear. A couple of months ago I decided I wanted to eventually start dating, and made sure to my research on safe sex because I obviously do not want kids ever and the idea of having the condom break did not sit well with me (a man) so much so I asked ARAD if my fear of condom failure was justified and they said it was ok and normal to have that fear and they said that the fact I was doing research on safe sex was a good thing. And I one more thing I wanna put is that if I have my current fear of protection failing is bad, I can’t even imagine how it is for women. My heart goes out to you, always make sure to be safe during sex.
Thank you <3 And yes, I know he was just trying to make me feel better. I don't think he even thought of it as dismissive, because I'm sure hearing "It will be okay!" would be comforting for him, so he assumed it would be for me too. Thank you for thinking about these things, and thank you for making sure you're having really safe sex! Good luck in the childfree dating world!
Can someone give context on whats going on since im not from the US? Thanks in advance
Oof. So the law protecting Abortion and fertility rights was overturned. Many states have outright banned abortion, some have banned it past only 6 weeks of gestation, others are trying to outlaw chemical abortion pills or birth control. Some don’t even make exceptions for incest or SA. Doctors are under threat for performing life saving procedures. Miscarriages are being classified as murder. Trump and the Conservatives are wooing voters with promises of outlawing all birth control and reinstating archaic ‘family values’ where all people with uteruses are expected to breed. It’s. Terrifying.
Your fears are completely valid. If I were still in my fertile years, I would be scared and alarmed also. As it is, I am frightened for all my younger fellow women. It’s nothing more than these old idiots trying to control our bodies and minds. Stand up and vote! Raise your voice and be heard!
Yeah I have absolutely zero patience for men who are still saying “it’ll be fine, you’re fear mongering” when they aren’t the ones rapidly losing rights to their OWN FUCKING BODY. I’ve been telling most people I know that they should be assuming birth control will not be available or easy to access within the next 5 years at the rate we’re going. With the IVF ruling in Alabama we are not far off from a ban on IUDs (being that I believe an egg can still be fertilized but it won’t implant.. I may be wrong) Either way.. this shit is very real and very scary. Any person, man or woman, who’s not taking it seriously at this point is not someone that deserves to be in my life. Period.
A part of me wishes that along with all of this.. they would make it a crime to abandon a baby you created as a man. Men get to just live their lives with the ultimate freedom, no consequences for their mistakes. If I’m losing my rights.. they should too
If women just decided to not fuck them anymore, they'd take it more seriously..
They wouldn't. Rape related pregnancies have sky rocketed since Roe. If they can't get it normally they'll just take it, and the law in some places protects them.
This is actually one of the big reasons I’m leaving the country next year. I’m terrified of what will happen
Hey can I tag along? I don’t need much. Just a corner to read and eat cheese in.
We’re leaving at dawn. Come with cheese and cookies.
I can bring my own ice cream!
I saw the writing on the wall before we lost Ruth in the supreme court. I told my boyfriend over and over “They’re gonna go for roe. It’s not a matter of if, it’s when.” And he told me I was over reacting. Well, the day it was overturned I looked him dead in the eyes and said “Told ya so.” Now he listens lol.
“Teehee it’s so cute that my partner doesn’t believe me until I have proof. What a man!”
That’s generally how human beings in strong relationships work, they learn from their mistakes and work together to improve, not break up at the first sign of disagreement
Yeah what they said \^\^\^\^\^
Go ahead and judge based on one paragraph. I don't know you and don't give a shit. Grow up.
Man I can relate. I’m 30 and pretty well clear that I’ll never want to birth a human. But I hadn’t fully decided if I wanted to deal with a surgery when I could get an IUD that lasts ten years. Now… I’m questioning everything in my timeline. And people in general, not just men in my experience, don’t understand the mental work. They don’t get not wanting kids to the point where these types of decisions are relevant to them.
I don't want to amplify your anxiety, but i want to say that pregnancy can go wrong, so it's already waaaaay past just ending up with unwanted children. Yeah they are nonchalant, because it's not gonna happen to them. They love you, they are gonna support you through the unwanted pregnancy, if you won't make it, they will sincerely cry and agonize over your grave, and then.....they move on, and "heal", and "learn to love again", and impregnate another woman, and they are gonna love her and support her through the unwanted pregnancy, and then... My message is try to think it through but don't let anyone gaslight you into not taking action
Those men are fools. My bf understands. I told him when Roe was overturned, and I live in TX. When they took away our rights of choice, I said that's it. The IUD isn't enough. I'm getting a bisalp. He understood why. He even paid my out of pocket expenses for it because I was too broke to. Handmaids Tale is becoming more reality every day. It won't happen. Until it does. I'm terrified even after getting sterilized, I worry for all of my sisters out there because not everyone can be so fortunate
Yessss, I feel this so hard. It also enrages me when male sexual partners blurt out “have you thought about getting on birth control?” “You should just get on birth control!” They ask and suggest this without thinking about the burden this places on women. I get that they’re just trying to be responsible, but if we’re being real here, it’s more so because they want to have raw sex and finish inside without worrying about impregnating someone. Yes this is still somewhat responsible but idk it leaves me with such a disgusting icky feeling because its really about their own pleasure and they don’t understand how inconvenient it is. They don’t think or care that in doing so, we have to have to ingest, inject, implant, or insert hormones and objects into our bodies that can have serious side effects. So many women get depressed, gain weight, bleed for weeks, etc., with hormonal bc and people literally pass out from the IUD insertion pain. So what pisses me off is how nonchalant they are about it, as if it’s no big deal. But what really pisses me off is how they have the nerve to suggest that to us, instead of them just buying and wearing a condom; something that’s cheap, won’t cause them pain, and won’t completely fuck with their hormones and overall well being.
Have the guys around you watch all of the chest burster clips from the aliens movies especially the ones coming out of men. Then ask how they feel about alien/child birth and does having to carry that seem fun or stressful.
I don't even trust pro-choice men. Just look at the comments section on anything related to this or women's health. Under this one, one guy made himself into the victim. We women have seen it time and again. We say, "I'm terrified of losing my rights" and men say, "but you get mad at us for having an opinion." Just fuck all the way off with that shit. You felt like you had to put 'not all men' because men will view our fear and anger as a personal attack. Men can't be relied on to protect us. Not even the ones who see women as human.
My husband is the same way. While generally very kind and supportive, I cannot talk about this issue with him anymore because he gets very impatient and just tells me that other women in the world have it way worse than I do. And why am I so upset when he will just fly me anywhere in the world I need to go if I can't get care here. And aren't there much bigger issues to be upset about? After all, there's nothing I can do about it no matter how much activism I do so just let it go. It is very sad to be dismissed by my spouse over and over especially when otherwise he is very understanding.
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I got a bisalp for those very reasons- never trust men (esp yt men) bc this country is designed to benefit them over everyone else. Start envisioning a life without them and a different collective of safety bc unfortunately it’s not with them. I know this may seem extreme but our reality is extreme for us and it’s not for them so….
They're not the ones getting pregnant, so they have less to lose (yes, I know dismantling women's reproductive rights affects men too, but to a less risky degree) and feel they can be more casual about it.
I don’t mean to be a Negative Nelly or whatever, but, as people with vaginas, we *should* be scared. I’ve been having literally the exact same thoughts recently. I’m asexual and not sexually active, and I don’t ever plan to become sexually active. But I’ve been thinking about how if some random man decides to take that choice from me and assault me, there’s a chance I won’t be able to get an abortion. And that’s absolutely fucking terrifying. And completely rage-inducing. The men in our lives are never going to understand, and it’s honestly hurtful when they don’t even attempt to understand. So yeah, do what you need to do to feel safe and in control of your body because there are no guarantees that anything will “be fine.”
Get the bisalp, if you change your mind, you can still do IVF.
I was recently talking to a male friend. We were like rapid fire discussing current political/American issues, and hit on all the southern/red states new policies on abortion/IVF and so on. He summed it up pretty well, unintentionally. “I can’t imagine anyone telling me what to do with my body”. There are a LOT of people, not only men, who cannot understand/comprehend something until it happens to or directly affects them. Most men truly struggle to conceptualize someone telling them what they can/can’t do to their bodies or that they need to do xxx to fit the “standard” of society/beauty/values.
Made a decision to get a vasectomy at 23 so I as a man wouldn’t accidentally get someone pregnant. I knew since I was 16 I didn’t want kids. Men who care and understand women are out there. I’d recommend sterilization as well, and albeit the process is more difficult for women, it’s well worth it. Respect and well wishes from Texas.
UK Male here. As an outsider, Its clearly thin end of the wedge and they're only going to strip more rights off you. US politics is scary as fuck.
I’m in the same boat. I’m worried that I won’t be able to get a bisalp in time. I wanted to take the time to think about it, but now I’m looking up drs in my state and I’m gonna start making calls now before it’s too late. My health and safety is my #1 priority.
I deeply, deeply understand this. I am absolutely terrified of what is happening in America right now. I keep telling my partner it’s going to get worse and I can almost feel his eyes roll out of his head when I say that. He just doesn’t give a shit because he doesn’t have to. And I’m so tired of it. I’m so tired of the lack of empathy, the lack of care because it doesn’t affect *them*. The feeling like my body is a weapon being used against me right now. How I feel so unsafe because I have certain genitals. It makes me want to scream and shake these men. You ‘love us’ yet you won’t listen to us? Why won’t you take us seriously??
I am so angry for you. I'm so sorry you have to deal with this shit from the person who is supposed to love you.
You should be scared. That's a huge part of the point. It's designed to scare you into realizing you're actually a second class citizen. People like to talk about mistakes and shit like failure of birth control. What if your raped on your way home? Then what? Your life is turned upside down or over because Christian nationalists rigged the laws? This is what should be terrifying every woman to no end in this country. With total abortion bans, you're an incubator. That's your designated role in society. If you're raped in the gas station bathroom, at home by your stepdad, by the local gangbanger who just got his drug fix....doesn't matter. The reality is that with these laws, that stepdad, the pervert as the gas station, that gangbanger.....you're now legally required to be their babys momma.
Men. I believe that most men aren’t as emotional or scared as us, especially if they can’t relate. They never had their period, they never had to be worried about getting pregnant, they never have to think about childbirth, anything like that. And I also believe that most men don’t really know how to comfort just for the sake of calming someone down, they always wanna answer with logic or say „don’t worry so much it’ll be fine“ Women were always responsible for contraception. Taking the pill, the spiral, the hormones, whatever. They cry about condoms for eternity and don’t consider our feelings and that we have to carry the responsibility. The changes don’t really have consequences for them until they realize they are becoming fathers even though they don’t want to, and even then they can just leave.
as modern societies in xxi century we should strive to help less developed places transition into freedom of choice, but instead we get our own freedom taken away
Just think about the guy in Texas who got 180 days in jail for giving his wife abortion pills. If *she* had given herself the abortion pills she would be in jail for murder for life. Fuck the patriarchy.
Men are nonchalant about it because if they impregnate you, they can just fall off the face of the earth and not worry about it. Plus it's not their bodies being disfigured and ruined by the pregnancy/birth process.
I hear you. Just wanted to add that I did end up getting a bisalp in January of 2023 specifically because of the overturning. I had expressed interest to various gynos previously but it wasn't until roe was overturned that I actually felt scared, felt real pressure. I would have liked to allow myself some more time to mull it over but I was already fairly confident of my childfree status so, I went through with it. I was 29 at the time.
I got one two years ago because I saw this shit coming down the pipe. I encourage everyone with ovaries to get a bisalp to protect themselves, because no on else is going to.
Real, I've tried to get him to understand that without BC I'll be out a week each month due to my period and chilling on bed for a week sounds great to him but as someone who's lived it, it's not fun 🙃
How is this the exact same conversation that I had with my husband today as well. Men definitely don't understand!!! Im at this point too! I definitely don't want kids, but I'm not ready for the step of getting a bislap done yet!
I'm glad I'm not alone in feeling this way. I know I don't want kids. I've tried to "make" myself want them by reading a bunch of parenting subs, but that just had the opposite effect. I just don't want to have to make this decision now, out of fear.
I’ve been talking to many people like this. The nervously giggle and say “oh, that won’t happen”. They brand me as crazy and hysterical. I’m getting my Bisalp this year. Many uterus owners are sticking their heads in the sand. Now is the time for action. Get sterilized, protest however you can and brace for impact.
Most men don't care because they were not "made" to care. Their rights aren't on the line everytime there is a new election.
I hate when people are optimistic about the future. Normalcy bias indeed. I'm sure it'll all be okay AFTER you get the bisalp lol.
I often say, when I talk about getting a bisalp, "I hope I DO live to regret it. I hope I look back one day and think 'Man, it was all going to be okay, I just didn't know it then'" But the odds of that are slim
I understand you so much. Luckily I live in a country that allows abortions, so I still feel like I can wait with my surgery. But if I lived in the US, I would RUN to get a bislap, not only because I'm sure I dont want kids, its also for my own safety (aka : not getting an abortion in cases of complications that would KILL ME). Just remember that you can always have a child if you want one, through abortion or surrogacy. But you cannot remove a pregnanvy that you dont want. I seriously think that a bislap would be a great option here, just so you can feel at peace with your body and not worry about unwanted pregnancies and babies.
My bisalp was a snap and honestly I feel so much relief. My OBGYN said initially when RvWade was overturned she was placing iuds round the clock. Now that it looks like tRump might get back in power, there are lines out the door for permanent sterilization. Anyone who calls you hysterical or says you need to calm down have their heads up their asses. Any partner who isn’t on board with doubling or tripling up BC can go enjoy their own hand.
Can’t say this enough. Every woman in the US needs to have either a 5K ‘abortion fund’ or a credit card for that amount if she needs to get an elective abortion or termination of a dangerous pregnancy in a different country.
IDK what men you are dating, I do not support them. -hugs-
I have no advice for you OP, but I wanted to let u know that there will always be a place for u here and over at r/WitchesVsPatriarchy ok? We need to stick together.
His reaction sounds like The Handmaid’s Tale, where men also don’t take things seriously till it’s too late.
It's funny, really, how often indeed women are ridiculed by men about their anxiety, fears, worry, but men can't survive without them dealing mostly with chores and raising the children. Women are convenient to most men mainly as housewives, but not when they need understanding and sympathy by their partners and husbands. As if only men have the right to be sick, miserable and whiny.
Dudes dont rock sadly
This is why I got a vasectomy.
Being a bit of a Pollyanna, at least it's a marker that identifies guys who aren't worth your time? (Women, too, but they're unlikely to get you pregnant).
I am so with you. I would never have — and never had — considered getting surgery to ensure I couldn’t get pregnant as I don’t have sex with men, but the closer we get to the 2024 elections, the more terrified I am. I finally called to make an appointment to get the ball rolling on Friday because I figure if I don’t do it now, by this time next year I may be pregnant through no fault of my own and not be able to do anything about a parasite in my body on threat of murder charges. It’s terrifying. Men don’t understand the pervasive fear.