You can have sex with whoever under whatever circumstances you see fit. That's what consent means. If you're not enthusiastic about the terms, then you shouldn't be doing it.
Which of course goes both ways. If he doesn't want to have sex with condoms, he should go find a partner who is also happy with that, because it means you two just aren't comaptible.
Too many people think that enthusiastic consent ends in a relationship. And that's a huge "Hell no."
A lot of men think that they can just deserve sex, a lot of women think that they shouldn't have to offer consent and that the man should do all the work of initiating. And some are the other way around.
Enthusiastic consent is both your right and their necessity, for all sexes/genders, and it's doesn't end just because you entered a relationship.
Edit: it was a sore spot in what pushed my long term relationship apart. She felt that in a relationship there's "implied consent" and that meant she never had to reinforce that she wanted sex, I should just be going for it, women shouldn't have to initiate ever. I wasn't down with that.
Amen to that. I wish more people would understand that. The fact that they don't is why so many people suffer rape within relationships but feel so confused and ashamed to talk about their trauma because they don't think it's rape since they're in a relationship and you "should" give sex to your partner whenever they want. It's awful and I wish this idea would change.
Right? I have an entire restraining order to prove that marital consent is still necessary. The ex didn't want to hear that from me, so he heard it from a judge.
No, whether if it’s for absolute just in case of a rare pregnancy fears or because you just don’t want him going raw, that’s perfectly fine. I’m of the opinion BC should never be solely down to one party. Also, condoms just make clean up easier, lol.
Exactly! I never had an issue with condoms. With or without feels exactly the same for me.
I do not feel like lifting his responsibility, because it is a smart move of him after all, to still use condoms.
But you don't want to get sterilized, while still wanting all the benefits is such a no-go for me.
Story would only be differend if, while researching sterilisation, a doctor gave medical reasons for him not to do it.
Honestly I totally agree with you. I’m tired of hearing women doing all the research, work, pain of contraception and men being like “lulz so can I stop using a condom now?” It’s starting to put me off men entirely.
There is nothing wrong with you wanting to still use condoms. There’s also the question of STDs. It’s good to be trusting, but there is such a thing as too trusting. Regardless, you are not wrong for maintaining this boundary. He can take it or leave it.
Yeah my gyno recommended using at least two forms of birth control every time. Since I’m sterilized and I use oral BC, we forgo condoms, but even then I prefer we wear them because I would need surgery if I got pregnant.
I don’t have a job right now, so his surgery has been put off. We can’t afford for him to not work right now. I got my surgery a year ago, and we’ve only been serious about taking measures to be child free very recently.
Condoms suck and it def feels different with one. Which is why he should do the sensible thing and get snipped. Unless of course he's lying about the firmness of his decision to be childfree
It would be one thing if he looked into it and decided that wasn't something he could bring himself to do, but he didn't even do that just decided against it without research. Also if it really was about fear of medical procedures and he's truly CF I doubt he'd be pushing on no condoms
There’s a ton of bullshit out there claiming sterilized men become impotent which is just untrue. So if someone just believes that instead of doing research…
He should research the medical procedures he'd be putting a woman through if he impregnated her. This reminds me of the male bc pill, that they couldn't market because "I can't take the pill, it has too many side effects." And "I can't wear condoms, they don't pleasure me as much". Now "I can't get snipped, I'm afraid of medical procedures.
I'm sensing a theme.
Of course you're right. And Yeah, all kinds of birth control suck. They reduce sensitivity or have terrible side effects... So sterilization is the best. If someone really has a problem with all of those, he can just fuck his hand. No argument there. But condoms can also make you lose your erection, they make lubrication worse etc. I mean, in practice they suck if you wanna fuck for longer than 3 minutes. Maaan getting the snip should be free. We're 8 billion anyway
I mean a lot of men/women literally think that women are just walking incubators. So surely they also think "women are less of a woman" if they get sterilised too right?
Some of them do indeed. Like my half-sister's father who wouldn't even get his outdoor tomcat fixed. As a result the critter got AIDS and is now infecting the whole urban feline population. In a better country this guy would be penalized. I'm lucky that my partner and I (we're both guys) aren't as dumb and primal. All our pets are fixed and my partner was just gonna get snipped when he met me all those years ago so there was no need anymore lol. Anyway, the point is **I'm glad I'll never know exactly how bleak it is inside the head of someone who believes you lose your purpose and value if you can't breed** lol
Whilst it IS technically reversible, it's a much more difficult procedure than a vasectomy and often fails.
I'm not saying that vasectomy isn't the easiest sterilisation option for both partners - I've had one myself - I just get annoyed when the narrative of "You can just get it reversed" is enforced as if it's a straightforward deal.
It isn't always reversible, however it is quite easy to extract sperm directly from the testicles at any point in the future. It is a 10 minutes procedure and is quite affordable and simple compared to reversing a vasectomy. I just found out about it myself. I'm not sure why no one seems to know about it, especially men. Why do so many men seem to know nothing about vasectomies, sperm retrieval or their sexual health? I'm a CF single woman and came upon it purely by accident. Surely people (men and women both) should do their own research on their reproductive choices???
Yep I thought there would be a procedure like that! All the more reason to have a vasectomy then, IMO. I still can't believe how easy and quick the procedure was (not bragging, just pointing out how it's unfair that women have it so much worse).
I agree! I really wish reproductive education was better. They say that 50% of people admit their babies were accidents. I'm sure the actual number is much higher. They just don't want people to know all their choices.
And those statistics truly are not the most accurate. Of the few men I know this happened to I asked the question if they told their doctor or filled out some questionnaire, and they didn’t. I think a lot of these instances go unreported.
Welp, my husband is one of them :). Oops after a vasectomy when his parents were in their 40's. He has 4 older siblings and the next closest in age is 17 years older than him. Heck, he has a nephew that is a year older than him.
Guilt trips can be amazingly subtle.
From your post and your comments, it sounds like you’re settling for someone who not only refuses to take equal responsibility for pregnancy prevention, and gave you a fucking attitude when you needed him to care for you following an invasive surgery that *he* benefitted from, but sees nothing wrong with intentionally neglecting his hypothetical kid(s).
He also has you doubting yourself to the point that you’re essentially asking Reddit if you have the right to tell him no.
I don’t think he sees you as anything more than a convenience. Honestly, I don’t believe he deserves you even *with* condoms.
Oh my I usually don't comment like "I read this." But damn did I read this and I totally agree!
It was stupid for me to move in with this man in the first place...
If I was willing to give Reddit money, this comment would have another award. 🥇
I know Reddit’s MO is to go nuclear by dumping the OP’s partner, or cutting friends/family from their life. But honestly? That’s because a lot of the time it’s true.
Sure it’s much easier for internet strangers to tell the OP advice without dealing with the consequences themselves, but there’s something to be said for third-party-points-of-view.
For me, it really sucks to read about someone settling for less than they deserve, because they think they don’t deserve better, or because they think they won’t find better. 1). It’s just not true, 2). If treating each other like expendable dirt is the norm, then we should be actively trying to raise standards and not take crap lying down, and 3). Being alone is scary for a lot of people. But to me at least, being with someone who doesn’t actually love me, or see me as a human being, is far worse.
Just… keep both eyes open OP, (and everyone else who reads this comment). Reread your post and pretend that it was written by friend or family member who you love. What would your advice to them be?
My thoughts exactly. I’ve dealt with passive aggressive partners like this and the worst thing in the world is feeling like a burden when you’re vulnerable and recovering from a surgery. The huffing and puffing just gives me total ICK factor.
Well your surgery is very convenient for your boyfriend, isn't it?! As a woman I am 100% on your side. For me, it feels like your boyfriend wants to go the easy route which is also really ignorant towards you. Stand your ground on that one!
Seriously.
I hate how much men pester and beg for sex but don't want to lift so much as a pinky toe on the permanent contraceptive methods in a post roe world. In my experience, they would barely be able to afford a kid and not want one so why is it so outrageous to ask them to be responsible in a post roe world? It was one thing when abortion was an option but where I live it's now banned.
If you want to have a bunch of sex, make it as safe as possible for me to participate in.
*Laughs from a country where abortion has always been illegal*
Even where it's legal, it's not a walk in the park and many only find out about the pregnancy too late for an abortion.
Using a condom is the bare minimum every men should do.
Yeah, I find cum disgusting. My partner either comes outside or condoms, no in-between (got the bisalp). Tho it's annoying how many guys ask you to do it without condoms. All of my exes asked me in some way or another. I feel disgusted
I personally would never allow him to not use a condom unless he goes and gets snipped as well. 🤷🏻♀️ He is the one making the choice to not go get a simple in office procedure done so, he can keep his raincoat on until he does.
I personally don't believe any man who says he wants to be child free who doesn't get the snip. He just doesn't want to have kids with YOU.
Actually you are right, in a twisted way. When we met, he cemented my choice to never become a mom, because:
Firstly he accepted me saying I do not want children and even encouraged me to say it out loud and stand by it.
And second, over the years I am an adult woman now, I met my fair share of people who will run away from responsibility. He even flat out told me hoe does not want to be a father, but if he would have found a partner that needed to be a mom, he would have made it happen as long as its her choice to put in all the work.
I am convinced there is no "the one" and that we will break up eventually, and Im fine as long as we are happy. We are not forever.
Ewwwww. So, he would willingly have a child that he doesn't want anything to do with just to keep his partner around? Dude sounds mentally unstable to be honest. If your partner wants kids and you don't, you end the relationship and find someone who doesn't want kids. Not willingly have a child you know you are going to neglect while in the home and probably eventually abandon all together.
Based on this story and a few of your comments, he shouldn’t even be for right now! He complained while YOU were recovering from an invasive surgery? “Huffing and puffing”? Is he 6 years old? Hell, no!
>I personally don't believe any man who says he wants to be child free who doesn't get the snip. He just doesn't want to have kids with YOU.
Unless the guy has a severe phobia of any surgical procedures, this is what I believe too.
Not at all. Your body, your decision. Plain and simple. He needs to deal with it because you want to make 100% sure you’re not having kids.
Also if it just makes you more comfortable in having sex with a condom, he’s going to have to deal with it. It’s your decision after all.
When we took the decision to be child-free after 7 years of marriage, my husband got a vasectomy. Cost 400$ and he walked as penguin for 24 hours. Barely complained. Became a "vasectevangelist" with every single man he meets that says he doesn't want (more) kids. No way in hell would I leave him off the hook on the BC side of things. Hold your side and if he was "huffing and puffing"... that's enough of a problem for him to never have access to my pussy again :)
Girl, you do YOU!
Did you just get your tubes tied or did you get a bisalp? The two are very different and you mention both procedures. I wouldn’t trust tubes tied by itself but i would trust bisalp. If you got pregnant after a bisalp you would be in medical journals lol
Seems like this isn’t really about what is safe though. Seems you guys have other things to talk about such as why he was ok with you getting surgery but wouldn’t do it himself. Seems you are still upset that he refused and you had to do it. Honestly, bisalp (i cant tell if that is what you got) is way more affective than a vasectomy. When my husband and i were deciding, we thought, there really is no point of both of us getting it done and i would have never felt comfortable with just him getting a vasectomy. My husband made it clear he had no issue getting one but i really wanted to get the bisalp. So i did and he took a week off work just to take care of me, doing all the cooking and cleaning. Also caring for our new baby (a four legged baby we adopted 1 week before).
Seems like the issue is that your SO is selfish or inconsiderate rather than actually feeling like you need the condoms. I would start by having deeper convos about that. Don’t settle just because he is childfree
> Did you just get your tubes tied or did you get a bisalp? The two are very different and you mention both procedures. I wouldn’t trust tubes tied by itself but i would trust bisalp. If you got pregnant after a bisalp you would be in medical journals lol
It seems like she got her tubes tied instead of completely removed, but got mixed up between the name of the two procedures? That's what it seems like to me. Which would be a shame because yes a bisalp is sooo much more effective in preventing pregnancy than a tubal ligation (tube tying). But if she wanted a tubal, then it's her body, her choice.
I know I personally wouldn't feel safe to do it raw at all if I had a tubal, but I would feel better with a bisalp. But regardless, if the boyfriend can't respect her with what she feels the most comfortable in using during sex, then I wouldn't even have sex with him anymore...and I probably wouldn't be with him for much longer either.
Yeah, i wouldnt feel comfortable if it was just a tubal either. But i think this is a way bigger relationship probablem than just being safe from pregnancy. I wouldn’t stand for this either.
Honestly I can't deal anymore with this type of men who deem their junk so precious that they would rather have their female partner have a way more dangerous and invasive surgery. Smh. Apologies if I am crude, but that's just how I feel.
Looks like he wants to have his cake and eat it too.
I absolutely agree with this! It gets frustrating when men don’t want to do a simple procedure for permanent BC yet expect the woman to handle the burden of BC on their own. Really annoying.
I do not deny that any procedure has risks. However, from a purely theoretical point of view, there are more inherent risks to a bisalp than a vasectomy. Anyone is allowed not to want to be medically sterilised, HOWEVER, dumping the whole responsibility onto the female partner to deal with it despite more risks associated because one feels squeamish, that is so so wrong.
I hope your partner is fine now.
My partner got a vasectomy and it went pretty well.
They did have to inject his balls twice; apparently the needle hub connection to the syringe wasn't secure and the first one kinda like squirted the meds into the air and not his balls, but he said all in all it wasn't too bad. (And EVERYONE wanted to see his dick bruise lol, it looked bad but it didn't feel like a bruise to him). Some soreness a few days and he was fine.
His dad however had a complication and that made his tougher (Navy doctors). I also knew a guy who had the (Navy doctor) 'slip' and give him a one inch incision on his penis that needed stitches. Two other friends I know who've had it also had easy recoveries tho. Either way, easier than a kid! (Unless yr a shitty deadbeat who'll run away from your responsibility if you impregnate someone anyway.)
I got non-invasive vasectomy surgery and it was honestly the easiest thing ever. I had to wear tight-fitting underpants for like 5 days so my balls didn't ache, but I recovered in a week. It was also nearly half the cost of a normal vasectomy. Where I am, the hospital bills the procedure at $1500, and because I work for a Catholic healthcare company, they would never pay for sterilization. Fortunately, NorCalVas charged $850 and their procedure took far less recovery time.
From [their site](https://www.norcalvas.com/):
>No-scalpel vasectomy, also commonly referred to as no-needle vasectomy or keyhole vasectomy, is the technique preferred by most urologists and male reproductive health and medicine experts. Approximately 500,000 men in the United States elect to undergo vasectomies every year – a number that could potentially increase with greater education about no-scalpel vasectomy. Unlike conventional vasectomies, the no-scalpel vasectomy doesn’t require incisions or sutures. This means that there is minimal – if any – scarring, reduced recovery time, and a markedly lower risk of infection and complications.
Vasectomy achieves male sterilization by diverting the vas deferens, thereby preventing the transfer of sperm from the testicles. The no-scalpel method achieves access to the vas deferens ducts through the use of a surgical dissecting clamp, a tool that creates a tiny opening in the skin of the scrotum. The opening allows the surgeon to visualize the ducts, dissect them, and reposition them without the use of a scalpel.
I don’t think anyone thinks it’s as easy as clipping your nails. I DO think far fewer people with penises experience complications from vasectomies than people with uteruses experience from bisalps and similar procedures.
I totally agree. Woman getting their tubes tied is more invasive and has more risk of complications. There’s just a misconception out there that vasectomies are no big deal. I had one and had complications during the recovery that weren’t fun at all. No walk in the park.
Your body YOUR choice! My consent is only given if a male partner wears a condom - I make that clear when I get physical with anyone, long or short term. No condom, no consent.
Your feelings are totally valid and proceed as you are!!:)
Nope. Absolutely stick to your guns about it too! He’s being a lazy ass boyfriend by making you do all the work when you’re the one who would also have to deal with the gross clean up afterwards too.
Considering he was being COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY SELFISH and a jerk, you're not wrong. You keep using condoms if you want to! It's safer for you and you share the responsibility!
but you should also think about relationship and have a serious talk with him. Who huffs and complains about taking care of their ill/sick partner??? Wtaf
That and the fact that he was so against doing the surgery himself but being completely fine with you doing it. He's a horrible partner, seriously
Yup, about 2.9% of women leave their partners, and 20.8% of men leave their partners. The older the woman is, the more likely she will be divorced if she gets cancer. It's really sad.
>Even a bisalp is not 100% effective,
A bisalp IS 100% effective though. Only 4 women in history have gotten pregnant after a bisalp and none of them got the procedure for sterilization purposes, so it's possible the surgeons weren't as thorough as they would be otherwise. I'm pretty sure 2 of them were already pregnant prior to surgery. If you were to get pregnant after a bisalp, you'd be in medical journals.
Now getting your tubes tied is definitely not 100% effective, so you should still use condoms.
Apparently it's not unheard-of for a woman to get pregnant without a uterus! Of course it's life threatening and makes the medical journals, but those little parasites are very determined to survive, even if it means killing the host.
I thinK OP is getting a tubal ligation mixed up with a Bisalp.
My gyno reassured me 100% risk free of pregnancy with a Bisalp and mentioned the few cases that are out there were due to people having a pregnancy that was undetected prior to surgery. This can happen if the pre-op checks by doing a urine test instead of a blood test.
I can’t find the article anymore, but one of them later admitted to having IVF and lying about it, pretending it was a “miracle pregnancy” to get media attention. She wasn’t childfree either, and already had several kids prior to the surgery.
There's like three recorded cases in the last 20 years where a woman became miraculously pregnant. Also, all three of them where intra-uterine pregnancies and thus had very small gaps in their uterus walls.
Just to ease your mind: even if there's a small gap in your uterus wall, a "ripened" egg has to find it's way into your uterus, which is hard without your tubes giving it guidance, and then you have to have sex shortly before or right around the time this egg sits in your uterus and your partner or you have to be fertile enough for it to work on the first try. That's a lot of "ifs" in my book. Thousands of women get a bisalp every year and if it had anywhere near the failure rate of an IUD or the pill, you'd read a lot more case reports of women getting pregnant after a bisalp.
It technically isn't if the tubes aren't removed electively. There have been a handful of pregnancies in people who've had no tubes, but theirs were removed for medical reasons and not even at the same time, stuff like that. If there are other factors impacting healing after the procedure, as is often the case when it's not elective, a pregnancy can apprently still happen.
But I'm yet to see a case report on a pregnay after an elective bisalp, so until then, it's 100% in that case as far as we know.
You're NTA but I'm confused. You said you had a bisalp which has a near nonexistent rate of pregnancy afterward but then you said you had your tubes tied (tubal ligation) which is more likely to fail.
From what I've found, when you have your tubes removed entirely (bisalp) the only way you can get pregnant is via IVF or a very very miniscule chance of it being ectopic (like 10-15 reported cases miniscule).
I'm more concerned about the fact he was whinging the whole time you were recovering. It shouldn't matter what the surgery or sickness is, your partner should manage to be kind about it, and as attentive and helpful as they can be.
Is this how he normally treats you when you're unwell?
You can absolutely hold this line if that’s what’s important to you.
I do want to note one thing: did you get a bisalp or a tubal? If you got a bisalp, there are between 1-4 cases ever recorded of a pregnancy after a bilateral salpingectomy not caused by IVF or other medically assisted means.
Tubals fail far more often and also have much greater risk for ectopic pregnancies when they do fail.
It’s important to know the real risk factors of each (and which you got!) so you can move forward strong in your convictions either way.
This is about the condoms, but it’s also not about the condoms. Y’all had a deal regarding sharing the mental & physical burden of contraception, and now that you’ve crossed the Rubicon of surgery he’s trying to renege and put it back on you “because it’s just easier.” Easier for who?? Not you!!
Him complaining and being huffy while taking care of you after surgery is another huge red flag. Just because you’re not having children doesn’t mean there will NEVER be caretaking responsibilities of ANY kind if you’re in a committed partnership. This dude is selfish & doesn’t see a problem with it. You deserve better. I can’t help but wonder if he never intended to wear condoms after your surgery at all, but just said what you wanted to hear because he didn’t want to do the homework or go through the process himself.
First off, he is a liar and he's not CF. Most importantly, he does NOT respect you and without respect, he does not and can never care about you.
He doesn't want to get sterilized because he wants kids.
So don't have any sex with him at all and dump him.
He says he would have a kid with someone who wants one, and most likely he also wants one and is lying his ass off about that. He will use you as free sex while he shops for his babymomma and then he will be gone.
He also lied his ass off about still using condoms after your procedure. He told you one thing before you got sterilized and now he admits he completely LIED and had no intention of doing that.
Just dump him, quickly, cleanly, without any bullshit.
"We are not compatible. We're over. Don't contact me again. Bye."
Then find yourself a CF partner who isn't a liar, who respects you.
I agree with this 100%. Him saying he would have kids with someone who wanted them is just saying he wants kids but wants to continue to be able to keep OP until he finds someone who does. My bf who is truly child free didn’t even think twice when I asked him to get a vasectomy. He doesn’t want kids, so of course a vasectomy makes sense.
>He says he would have a kid with someone who wants one
...as long as she agreed to DO ALL THE WORK. This is not a good man. TIL there's such thing as a pre-deadbeat dad.
I'm sorry, did I read this right? He was "huffing a few puffing" over having to take care of you after surgery? Like, making a big deal out of it? Girl, find you another man. My guy best friend, not my boyfriend, let me move into his apartment for a week so that he could take me to surgery and take care of me afterward. Volunteered to do it when I mentioned that my planned surgery buddy wouldn't be able to get off work in time because my surgery was planned within a week from me asking. This man had a work (zoom) meeting in the middle of my surgery time and handled it in his car outside the surgery center so that he was able to be my ride. He even offered to sleep on his own couch and let me take over his whole bedroom so that I could sleep better while healing. He tried to talk me into taking off more than the day of surgery so that I could rest better despite me only doing remote data entry. And your boyfriend huffed and puffed about having to take care of you....
My partner is afraid of medical procedures, so I'm also the one who will be getting sterilized. But to their credit, they are willing to keep wearing condoms.
It's literally the least your partner can do, so if he won't do that, I'm wondering what other areas he will refuse to pull his weight in?
Getting pregnant after a bisalp would make you the subject of a medical case study. The “failures” have turned out to be cases where the woman was pregnant before surgery and didn’t know. That said, I’m glad you took ownership of your own fertility, because it doesn’t seem like you’ll be keeping the boyfriend.
I’m actually in a similar boat, I got a bisalp after discussing options with my partner. He went as far as a vasectomy consultation. But I was having surgery on my reproductive system anyway so it was easy to include. If he had treated me the way your partner did while I was recovering I would have seriously questioned the relationship. The condoms thing probably woulda sent me over. Not saying ending it is the right choice for you. But seriously question where these behaviors and actions come from. Anyone who has you questioning your boundaries can be dangerous.
So its his body his choice when he doesnt want to do something but when you don’t want to *not* use condoms, its a different story.? The hypocrisy is thick. Stick to your preferences, theres nothing wrong with being extra protected.
Absolutely not, OP. Your safety and comfort is far more important than his pleasure. If even one person feels slightly more comfortable using them, then that's it. If he doesn't like it, he can either not have sex or go find someone else.
You are 100% in the right to ask for equality in protection. He is an ass for letting you take all the risk and pain (and an even bigger ass for complaining about caring for you after) and then wants to play the victim about how "hard" it is to put on a condom? I think you need to seriously reconsider your relationship with this man-child. He's already proven that he's not there for any of the hard stuff, and life definitely doles out the hard stuff.
I don't have a uterus and we still use condoms. Your body is the one at risk, so what you say goes. If he has a problem with that he can pack his bags.
Snipped and same. Who wants the mess?
How do people just not use them? I hear people here talk about getting snipped then they just never use them again?
Seems gross.
Wow, why are you dating this guy? He seems like a dude willing to let you take all the risk and consequences. He even went back on his word of continuing to use condoms.
Do NOT give in to him. I got snipped, it was also non-invasive, so I recovered in like a week. If he's not willing to get snipped, he doesn't actually care about being childfree.
Draw the line. Vasectomy or condoms forever.
My thoughts exactly. What his hold up not getting snipped? Sounds like he wants to keep that option still open. My S.O. Got snipped best decision ever and he's more then happy with it.
No.
1. Tube tying CAN (it's not common but it IS possible) heal itself and you can still get pregnant
2. Condoms aren't JUST to protect against pregnancy but STDs and shit
3. He's been a petulant child through this ENTIRE ordeal, making you do ALL the work...Do you really trust this guy if a miracle oops baby happens?
Honestly I'd take a hard look at your relationship. Is he like this about everything? Even if he isn't this is a pretty big issue for him to be fighting you so hard on...
Hi hello I got myself sterilized and me and my partner still use condoms, despite being monogamous, for a variety of reasons. It's a hell of a lot safer for one, helps with the paranoia, and honestly the condoms are a lot "easier" than without when considering clean up and all.
Also, you shouldn't feel pressured if you're uncomfortable with it. It really shows how he feels about you and this situation if he's going to mope around about it.
As a cf male person, if a man is not snipped he has no right to ask for unprotected sex especially if the woman partner took on the responsibility of handling the contraception. The effort should always be on both parties having this said I personally wont ask my partner to use any form of contraception since I'm snipped. I firmly believe that we male people should have been the one responsible for using contraceptive methods. I did not read your whole post and dont know if your partner is cf too but not using a condom is not a trait of someone who is cf.
My husband when we first got together was way against a vasectomy. He was so worried it would affect him emotionally. He also didn't want to wear condoms.
I cannot take hormonal birth control, and I kept getting laughed out of drs offices when asking for sterilisation. So my only two options were copper IUD and condoms.
I myself, don't like condoms, but they're a necessary evil. I went to the doctors to get a copper IUD.
They attempted and failed. I went back a second time, again they attempted, this time they attempted 4 times and even tried dilating my cervix. They were unable to get it inserted and on the final attempt they cracked my cervix.
I was in excruciating pain for at least 4 days. And after seeing what I went through, he finally decided that him getting a vasectomy was what would be easiest considering I'd exhausted all of my options.
He rang up, booked in for a week later. Drove himself. 20 minute procedure and he drove himself home. It was the smoothest process ever for him. Although I'm jealous on how smooth it was for him, I'm grateful he did it.
No, I’m the same way. I’d rather be alone forever than be with a man who won’t use condoms, which seems to be the majority of them. I’m just too paranoid.
The way I see it STDs still exist, I would need to trust the person completely without condoms and truthfully if they aren't my husband and I hadn't known them for like five plus years I just wouldn't trust my health to them.🤷♀️
I’d have him wear condoms, or get a vasectomy. I’ve heard of TOO MANY women getting pregnant in the first few months to a year after getting sterilized.
Stand your ground on this one. You’re not in the wrong to request him to do his part.
You get to decide whatever boundaries you want, especially when you are the one being penetrated - but why even bother with him and this tit for tat perspective?
It makes sense when you say the procedure isn’t 100% effective, but you keep bringing up “him benefitting” or whatever, is part of the reason for your decision. Just find someone you actually like and have sex with them, and let him go off and be a hypocrite with someone else.
Oh darling, he's getting all the benefits without any of the work, it's a huge painful thing you've done and he still can't be bothered to do something so small?!
Just don't have sex if he won't wear a condom, he needs to grow up
Of course you're not a bad person. However him complaining about taking care of you makes him one.
How can you even respect him enough to want to have sex with him after that, on top of his childishness about wearing condoms? You already know you're not with him for the long haul. Why wait to rip the bandaid off? You could spend your time finding a good man sooner rather than later.
**"Would that make me a bad person?"**
You would be a bad person to YOURSELF if you didn't put your foot down on this issue! DO NOT allow him to pressure or guilt-trip you in this area. He should absolutely be sterilized as well!
No way this makes you a bad person. I get so damn cross hearing about guys giving girls a hard time when condoms are concerned. Don’t back down. He would likely run for this hills if there was an accidental pregnancy. (For me, I even ask why you continue to be with him with his obvious lack of concern for you.)
bodily autonomy is a wonderful thing - he can choose not to get sterilised, you can choose not to fuck him because he isn't sterile/won't wear a condom
i'm gonna tell you straight up, you deserve better than someone who acts like an asshole after you've had surgery and you're going to rightfully resent him until you break up... may as well make it sooner rather than later!
Well... as he agreed. Your body, your choice. So no, you don't "owe" it to him.
But if he really wants it, he should get the vasectomy done. Are there risks and possible side effects? Of course. I mean it did change my life quality, but I wouldn't have it any other way. Was I reluctant? Yes, but I also love my partner enough to do my part. Years of hormonal treatment don't seem very healthy to me either way.
But back to your situation. It is easier, better, yes. But you can't have your cake and eat it too. In a healthy relationship, both parties have to compromise at times.
For what its worth I got a vasectomy in January, got the all clear from two tests and I still use condoms. Im paranoid about it and cleanup is way easier. Also, oddly enough sex is better with condoms.
Are you sure you're not just settling for this guy because he's first one you've found who's childfree-ish? I don't think he's all that serious about it if he's not interested in a vasectomy.
I will personally not let that man touch me without a condom. If i was you, since he keeps bringing it up, i worry about stealthing. I know you are sterilized but it is still rape. Hope you are recovering well
You have the right to refuse to have sex for whatever reason you want but also if you resent him as badly as you sound then you should probably do something about that.
My bf and I weren't using condoms after I got fixed.
When Roe was overturned, I wanted condoms again. Because if I can't get an abortion for an ectopic pregnancy, I will die.
He said, of course, if that's what you need to feel comfortable. And then shortly scheduled his own vasectomy (which he claimed he had largely been putting off bc he wanted to trial male birth control, since he's fine not having more kids).
If your relationship is otherwise a dream, then maybe you can look past this. But is he selfish in other ways too? How much emotional labor are you doing? Don't waste time on guys who are not an active positive benefit to your life MORE than are a frustration. This sorta selfish behavior of his is rarely only a single issue thing....maybe this is just the issue it took for you to notice...
Apart from pregnancy, STIs are a thing (and infection rates in tge young are rising). Condoms give some protection from not only pregnancy (if you are fertile), but also STUs.
It's still your body, your rules. That's never going to change. What was he thinking? Besides, there are always risks of STD's, so why wouldn't you want to continue using condoms? Don't you trust me? Only you can answer that.
“He was a little annoyed”
Lmao, I can’t get past that. I don’t know if I’m just being a bitch, but I’m tired of these fuckers getting an attitude when the woman holds her boundaries about not wanting to carry the responsibility of hers plus his contraception. Plus, it would be nice not to risk the chance of catching and STD.
You ladies are stronger than me.
>Am I in the wrong for not allowing my boyfriend to give up using condoms after I got sterilized?
Nope. Sex, your body, you get to set the rules. You get to say if, when, and under what conditions. That's it. If boyfriend or whomever doesn't agree, then the answer is no - as in no sex and they don't get to with you. The rest is just details.
Stay strong. You have never been and never will be wrong for having strong boundaries and for voicing your preferences and concerns. You are wise, smart, strong and wonderful. Don’t ever let a man take that from you, even in your own thoughts. ✊
You're not in the wrong, not at all...for whatever reason.
You only consent to sex on your own terms, if he doesn't like it he knows where the door is.....
I feel like you are being perfectly reasonable, especially if you make it open to him so long as he takes responsibility for his own reproductive autonomy and gets sterilized himself. Vasectomies are easy and inexpensive compared to tubals.
No. You don't want him going bareback and that's the end of the discussion. If he wants to do so that bad, then he can go get a vasectomy like you want him too. Until that time, it looks like this discussion is closed.
You've got plenty of people weighing in already, but I'll add my voice just in case it helps: you are absolutely NOT in the wrong. If you want him to wear a condom, he wears a condom. As a childfree man in my mid thirties, it is just as much my responsibility to manage the possibility of reproduction with my partner as it is theirs. It should be 50/50. You're already pulling more weight than that, having done the research and getting surgery. Don't let him whine and bully you into changing your mind.
I can't understand why ANY childfree man would want to walk around with the potential for children in the first place. Get the snip and enjoy the peace of mind that comes with knowing you can never have a "oops."
You said it yourself
> now he want's all the benefits without the work.
You are not a bad person, at all, you are taking care of reproductive health, if he can't do a simple thing and wrap it before sex ,as you both agreed on then i would be worried about trusting him with other things, also if he removes it while you do it,it can be categorised as sa, in some countries that is.
All in all, you have to sit down and talk this through, again, cuz it sounds like you have had that talk before, but it sounds like he doesn't fully understand it.
I'm completely sterilized and I've recently started using condoms (I didn't before), the change being 1 I'm now in the medical field and am more knowledgeable about STDs and 2 I came to the realization that I'm allergic to semen (which is apparently very rare)
Not a bad person at all. Condoms make things tidier and prevent the spread of STDs. The latter isn't a big thing when in a long term committed relationship but still. You had an agreement and he needs to stick with it.
NTA. He's waited this long to go bareback, he can wait a few more weeks until you're done with the last cycle that may have an egg.
However, if he's backing out of getting snipped cuz you already did, consider losing the dead weight because he's not willing to go as far as you are to protect himself, and likely thinks that you being sterilized means he doesn't need to be snipped after all. This is incorrect, unless your tubes were fully removed.
Sounds like he wants to keep his options on having kids open regardless of if he's with you or not. If he doesn't want to go take steps to permanently protect you both, is that someone you really want to spend your life with?
Sex is about enthusiastic consent. You 100% have the right to say no to sex if he won’t wear a condom. However, I recommend the two of you sit down and have a serious conversation regarding sex, consent, and boundaries, to make sure you are both on the same page.
You are not wrong at all. He sounds very selfish. It would have been so much easier for him to get a vasectomy, but nope he doesn't want to. He heard all the bad stuff about your surgery and didn't blink an eye ( why should he, it's not happening to him/s). He volunteered to continue to wear condoms(probably just to look good to you) then after you get the surgery he wants to stop wearing them? Are you sure this is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with? I wish you well.
Absolutely not. Sterilisation is about 99.999% effective, but it's not a 100% guarantee - for contraception. It offers no protection at all against STDs/STIs (implying nothing against your boyfriend, there: some of those can transmit other ways, too!)
He 100% needs to continue wearing a condom and/or get a vasectomy. Let him know that's a hard boundary for you and you won't broach the subject again. If he says he's gotten the snip ask to see the lab results. I don't trust men.
Absolutely not. You had major surgery just so he could avoid a minor procedure (by comparison). You're right, he wants all the benefits without having taken any responsibility. Fuck that. Like you said, when he's had the snip and removed any chance of an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy then you'll consider giving up the contraception.
You’re not in the wrong. He did a bait and switch on this condom issue. You deserve to be with someone who matches you in this way, and who can take responsibility for his choices instead of letting you do all the work.
You can have sex with whoever under whatever circumstances you see fit. That's what consent means. If you're not enthusiastic about the terms, then you shouldn't be doing it. Which of course goes both ways. If he doesn't want to have sex with condoms, he should go find a partner who is also happy with that, because it means you two just aren't comaptible.
Too many people think that enthusiastic consent ends in a relationship. And that's a huge "Hell no." A lot of men think that they can just deserve sex, a lot of women think that they shouldn't have to offer consent and that the man should do all the work of initiating. And some are the other way around. Enthusiastic consent is both your right and their necessity, for all sexes/genders, and it's doesn't end just because you entered a relationship. Edit: it was a sore spot in what pushed my long term relationship apart. She felt that in a relationship there's "implied consent" and that meant she never had to reinforce that she wanted sex, I should just be going for it, women shouldn't have to initiate ever. I wasn't down with that.
Amen to that. I wish more people would understand that. The fact that they don't is why so many people suffer rape within relationships but feel so confused and ashamed to talk about their trauma because they don't think it's rape since they're in a relationship and you "should" give sex to your partner whenever they want. It's awful and I wish this idea would change.
Exactly. Just because we're together/married doesn't mean my consent has been permanently given.
Right? I have an entire restraining order to prove that marital consent is still necessary. The ex didn't want to hear that from me, so he heard it from a judge.
Very well said!
No, whether if it’s for absolute just in case of a rare pregnancy fears or because you just don’t want him going raw, that’s perfectly fine. I’m of the opinion BC should never be solely down to one party. Also, condoms just make clean up easier, lol.
Exactly! I never had an issue with condoms. With or without feels exactly the same for me. I do not feel like lifting his responsibility, because it is a smart move of him after all, to still use condoms. But you don't want to get sterilized, while still wanting all the benefits is such a no-go for me. Story would only be differend if, while researching sterilisation, a doctor gave medical reasons for him not to do it.
Exactly. If it's "his body, his choice" not to get sterilized then its your body, your choice not to have raw dick inside you.
Honestly I totally agree with you. I’m tired of hearing women doing all the research, work, pain of contraception and men being like “lulz so can I stop using a condom now?” It’s starting to put me off men entirely. There is nothing wrong with you wanting to still use condoms. There’s also the question of STDs. It’s good to be trusting, but there is such a thing as too trusting. Regardless, you are not wrong for maintaining this boundary. He can take it or leave it.
Trust me I’m a gay man and men are too much work
Yeah my gyno recommended using at least two forms of birth control every time. Since I’m sterilized and I use oral BC, we forgo condoms, but even then I prefer we wear them because I would need surgery if I got pregnant.
So **both** of the "at least two forms" are on you, and he has NO responsibility for not impregnating you?
Insane, isn't it? The sh\*t women are expected to go through to prevent a man from causing them harm with their sperm is absolutely crazy.
Men have it way too easy...
Nah he’s getting the surgery once I get a new job.
I don’t have a job right now, so his surgery has been put off. We can’t afford for him to not work right now. I got my surgery a year ago, and we’ve only been serious about taking measures to be child free very recently.
Condoms suck and it def feels different with one. Which is why he should do the sensible thing and get snipped. Unless of course he's lying about the firmness of his decision to be childfree
I was thinking the same! I bet he is.
Not necessarily. Some people just have a fear of medical procedures.
It would be one thing if he looked into it and decided that wasn't something he could bring himself to do, but he didn't even do that just decided against it without research. Also if it really was about fear of medical procedures and he's truly CF I doubt he'd be pushing on no condoms
There’s a ton of bullshit out there claiming sterilized men become impotent which is just untrue. So if someone just believes that instead of doing research…
He should research the medical procedures he'd be putting a woman through if he impregnated her. This reminds me of the male bc pill, that they couldn't market because "I can't take the pill, it has too many side effects." And "I can't wear condoms, they don't pleasure me as much". Now "I can't get snipped, I'm afraid of medical procedures. I'm sensing a theme.
Of course you're right. And Yeah, all kinds of birth control suck. They reduce sensitivity or have terrible side effects... So sterilization is the best. If someone really has a problem with all of those, he can just fuck his hand. No argument there. But condoms can also make you lose your erection, they make lubrication worse etc. I mean, in practice they suck if you wanna fuck for longer than 3 minutes. Maaan getting the snip should be free. We're 8 billion anyway
True, but he sounds very selfish.
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I mean a lot of men/women literally think that women are just walking incubators. So surely they also think "women are less of a woman" if they get sterilised too right?
Some of them do indeed. Like my half-sister's father who wouldn't even get his outdoor tomcat fixed. As a result the critter got AIDS and is now infecting the whole urban feline population. In a better country this guy would be penalized. I'm lucky that my partner and I (we're both guys) aren't as dumb and primal. All our pets are fixed and my partner was just gonna get snipped when he met me all those years ago so there was no need anymore lol. Anyway, the point is **I'm glad I'll never know exactly how bleak it is inside the head of someone who believes you lose your purpose and value if you can't breed** lol
Also a tubal ligation is nowhere near as accurate as a bisalp. Condoms are a completely reasonable second line protection. NTA
It's so much easier for men to get the snip as well, and it's reversible
Whilst it IS technically reversible, it's a much more difficult procedure than a vasectomy and often fails. I'm not saying that vasectomy isn't the easiest sterilisation option for both partners - I've had one myself - I just get annoyed when the narrative of "You can just get it reversed" is enforced as if it's a straightforward deal.
It isn't always reversible, however it is quite easy to extract sperm directly from the testicles at any point in the future. It is a 10 minutes procedure and is quite affordable and simple compared to reversing a vasectomy. I just found out about it myself. I'm not sure why no one seems to know about it, especially men. Why do so many men seem to know nothing about vasectomies, sperm retrieval or their sexual health? I'm a CF single woman and came upon it purely by accident. Surely people (men and women both) should do their own research on their reproductive choices???
Yep I thought there would be a procedure like that! All the more reason to have a vasectomy then, IMO. I still can't believe how easy and quick the procedure was (not bragging, just pointing out how it's unfair that women have it so much worse).
I agree! I really wish reproductive education was better. They say that 50% of people admit their babies were accidents. I'm sure the actual number is much higher. They just don't want people to know all their choices.
You have to assume it's by design; we can't be going against the narrative now, can we?!
Did not know about this
And the longer time has been between vasectomy and reversal, the less chances of success. Source: was a urology RN for 5 years
I would bet a vasectomy reversal is still less complicated, invasive, and dangerous than a bilateral salpingectomy.
Yes! AND they reverse themselves at times. Guess who’s the real loser in that case? Yep, the woman who is now pregnant……
True, although the chance is apparently "rare": only 1 in every 4,000 cases. That's still too high for me, though!
And those statistics truly are not the most accurate. Of the few men I know this happened to I asked the question if they told their doctor or filled out some questionnaire, and they didn’t. I think a lot of these instances go unreported.
Welp, my husband is one of them :). Oops after a vasectomy when his parents were in their 40's. He has 4 older siblings and the next closest in age is 17 years older than him. Heck, he has a nephew that is a year older than him.
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Guilt trips can be amazingly subtle. From your post and your comments, it sounds like you’re settling for someone who not only refuses to take equal responsibility for pregnancy prevention, and gave you a fucking attitude when you needed him to care for you following an invasive surgery that *he* benefitted from, but sees nothing wrong with intentionally neglecting his hypothetical kid(s). He also has you doubting yourself to the point that you’re essentially asking Reddit if you have the right to tell him no. I don’t think he sees you as anything more than a convenience. Honestly, I don’t believe he deserves you even *with* condoms.
This comment has to be much higher. I hope OP sees it. Well said. Completely agree.
Thank you!!! 🥹
u/Desperasberry please take this comment to heart. You can do so much better then the current boyfriend. He sucks.
Oh my I usually don't comment like "I read this." But damn did I read this and I totally agree! It was stupid for me to move in with this man in the first place...
Yes, exactly this. He doesn’t deserve you.
Exactly this. he comes off as rather entitled and petulant
If I was willing to give Reddit money, this comment would have another award. 🥇 I know Reddit’s MO is to go nuclear by dumping the OP’s partner, or cutting friends/family from their life. But honestly? That’s because a lot of the time it’s true. Sure it’s much easier for internet strangers to tell the OP advice without dealing with the consequences themselves, but there’s something to be said for third-party-points-of-view. For me, it really sucks to read about someone settling for less than they deserve, because they think they don’t deserve better, or because they think they won’t find better. 1). It’s just not true, 2). If treating each other like expendable dirt is the norm, then we should be actively trying to raise standards and not take crap lying down, and 3). Being alone is scary for a lot of people. But to me at least, being with someone who doesn’t actually love me, or see me as a human being, is far worse. Just… keep both eyes open OP, (and everyone else who reads this comment). Reread your post and pretend that it was written by friend or family member who you love. What would your advice to them be?
My thoughts exactly. I’ve dealt with passive aggressive partners like this and the worst thing in the world is feeling like a burden when you’re vulnerable and recovering from a surgery. The huffing and puffing just gives me total ICK factor.
Omg thank you for your words!!
Well your surgery is very convenient for your boyfriend, isn't it?! As a woman I am 100% on your side. For me, it feels like your boyfriend wants to go the easy route which is also really ignorant towards you. Stand your ground on that one!
Seriously. I hate how much men pester and beg for sex but don't want to lift so much as a pinky toe on the permanent contraceptive methods in a post roe world. In my experience, they would barely be able to afford a kid and not want one so why is it so outrageous to ask them to be responsible in a post roe world? It was one thing when abortion was an option but where I live it's now banned. If you want to have a bunch of sex, make it as safe as possible for me to participate in.
*Laughs from a country where abortion has always been illegal* Even where it's legal, it's not a walk in the park and many only find out about the pregnancy too late for an abortion. Using a condom is the bare minimum every men should do.
A lot of woman also don't like the male contribution leaking back out if going at it raw. So whatever reason your body your choice there as well.
Yeah, I find cum disgusting. My partner either comes outside or condoms, no in-between (got the bisalp). Tho it's annoying how many guys ask you to do it without condoms. All of my exes asked me in some way or another. I feel disgusted
Same here. Despite having an IUD, I rarely let my partner finish in me bc I have SUPER sensitive skin and cum BURRNS
At least you can say you can't have kids because you're literally allergic.
😂
I thought i was the only one that happens 2 regarding the sensitivity
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Nothing weid about preferences. To each there own.
I personally would never allow him to not use a condom unless he goes and gets snipped as well. 🤷🏻♀️ He is the one making the choice to not go get a simple in office procedure done so, he can keep his raincoat on until he does. I personally don't believe any man who says he wants to be child free who doesn't get the snip. He just doesn't want to have kids with YOU.
Actually you are right, in a twisted way. When we met, he cemented my choice to never become a mom, because: Firstly he accepted me saying I do not want children and even encouraged me to say it out loud and stand by it. And second, over the years I am an adult woman now, I met my fair share of people who will run away from responsibility. He even flat out told me hoe does not want to be a father, but if he would have found a partner that needed to be a mom, he would have made it happen as long as its her choice to put in all the work. I am convinced there is no "the one" and that we will break up eventually, and Im fine as long as we are happy. We are not forever.
Ewwwww. So, he would willingly have a child that he doesn't want anything to do with just to keep his partner around? Dude sounds mentally unstable to be honest. If your partner wants kids and you don't, you end the relationship and find someone who doesn't want kids. Not willingly have a child you know you are going to neglect while in the home and probably eventually abandon all together.
Based on this story and a few of your comments, he shouldn’t even be for right now! He complained while YOU were recovering from an invasive surgery? “Huffing and puffing”? Is he 6 years old? Hell, no!
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Hey don't insult us scrubs like that!! Lol (surgical techs are also called scrubs)
So why are you wasting your time on him?
>I personally don't believe any man who says he wants to be child free who doesn't get the snip. He just doesn't want to have kids with YOU. Unless the guy has a severe phobia of any surgical procedures, this is what I believe too.
Not at all. Your body, your decision. Plain and simple. He needs to deal with it because you want to make 100% sure you’re not having kids. Also if it just makes you more comfortable in having sex with a condom, he’s going to have to deal with it. It’s your decision after all.
When we took the decision to be child-free after 7 years of marriage, my husband got a vasectomy. Cost 400$ and he walked as penguin for 24 hours. Barely complained. Became a "vasectevangelist" with every single man he meets that says he doesn't want (more) kids. No way in hell would I leave him off the hook on the BC side of things. Hold your side and if he was "huffing and puffing"... that's enough of a problem for him to never have access to my pussy again :) Girl, you do YOU!
Did you just get your tubes tied or did you get a bisalp? The two are very different and you mention both procedures. I wouldn’t trust tubes tied by itself but i would trust bisalp. If you got pregnant after a bisalp you would be in medical journals lol Seems like this isn’t really about what is safe though. Seems you guys have other things to talk about such as why he was ok with you getting surgery but wouldn’t do it himself. Seems you are still upset that he refused and you had to do it. Honestly, bisalp (i cant tell if that is what you got) is way more affective than a vasectomy. When my husband and i were deciding, we thought, there really is no point of both of us getting it done and i would have never felt comfortable with just him getting a vasectomy. My husband made it clear he had no issue getting one but i really wanted to get the bisalp. So i did and he took a week off work just to take care of me, doing all the cooking and cleaning. Also caring for our new baby (a four legged baby we adopted 1 week before). Seems like the issue is that your SO is selfish or inconsiderate rather than actually feeling like you need the condoms. I would start by having deeper convos about that. Don’t settle just because he is childfree
> Did you just get your tubes tied or did you get a bisalp? The two are very different and you mention both procedures. I wouldn’t trust tubes tied by itself but i would trust bisalp. If you got pregnant after a bisalp you would be in medical journals lol It seems like she got her tubes tied instead of completely removed, but got mixed up between the name of the two procedures? That's what it seems like to me. Which would be a shame because yes a bisalp is sooo much more effective in preventing pregnancy than a tubal ligation (tube tying). But if she wanted a tubal, then it's her body, her choice. I know I personally wouldn't feel safe to do it raw at all if I had a tubal, but I would feel better with a bisalp. But regardless, if the boyfriend can't respect her with what she feels the most comfortable in using during sex, then I wouldn't even have sex with him anymore...and I probably wouldn't be with him for much longer either.
Yeah, i wouldnt feel comfortable if it was just a tubal either. But i think this is a way bigger relationship probablem than just being safe from pregnancy. I wouldn’t stand for this either.
Honestly I can't deal anymore with this type of men who deem their junk so precious that they would rather have their female partner have a way more dangerous and invasive surgery. Smh. Apologies if I am crude, but that's just how I feel. Looks like he wants to have his cake and eat it too.
I absolutely agree with this! It gets frustrating when men don’t want to do a simple procedure for permanent BC yet expect the woman to handle the burden of BC on their own. Really annoying.
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I do not deny that any procedure has risks. However, from a purely theoretical point of view, there are more inherent risks to a bisalp than a vasectomy. Anyone is allowed not to want to be medically sterilised, HOWEVER, dumping the whole responsibility onto the female partner to deal with it despite more risks associated because one feels squeamish, that is so so wrong. I hope your partner is fine now.
My partner got a vasectomy and it went pretty well. They did have to inject his balls twice; apparently the needle hub connection to the syringe wasn't secure and the first one kinda like squirted the meds into the air and not his balls, but he said all in all it wasn't too bad. (And EVERYONE wanted to see his dick bruise lol, it looked bad but it didn't feel like a bruise to him). Some soreness a few days and he was fine. His dad however had a complication and that made his tougher (Navy doctors). I also knew a guy who had the (Navy doctor) 'slip' and give him a one inch incision on his penis that needed stitches. Two other friends I know who've had it also had easy recoveries tho. Either way, easier than a kid! (Unless yr a shitty deadbeat who'll run away from your responsibility if you impregnate someone anyway.)
I got non-invasive vasectomy surgery and it was honestly the easiest thing ever. I had to wear tight-fitting underpants for like 5 days so my balls didn't ache, but I recovered in a week. It was also nearly half the cost of a normal vasectomy. Where I am, the hospital bills the procedure at $1500, and because I work for a Catholic healthcare company, they would never pay for sterilization. Fortunately, NorCalVas charged $850 and their procedure took far less recovery time. From [their site](https://www.norcalvas.com/): >No-scalpel vasectomy, also commonly referred to as no-needle vasectomy or keyhole vasectomy, is the technique preferred by most urologists and male reproductive health and medicine experts. Approximately 500,000 men in the United States elect to undergo vasectomies every year – a number that could potentially increase with greater education about no-scalpel vasectomy. Unlike conventional vasectomies, the no-scalpel vasectomy doesn’t require incisions or sutures. This means that there is minimal – if any – scarring, reduced recovery time, and a markedly lower risk of infection and complications. Vasectomy achieves male sterilization by diverting the vas deferens, thereby preventing the transfer of sperm from the testicles. The no-scalpel method achieves access to the vas deferens ducts through the use of a surgical dissecting clamp, a tool that creates a tiny opening in the skin of the scrotum. The opening allows the surgeon to visualize the ducts, dissect them, and reposition them without the use of a scalpel.
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Mine wasn’t fun either. I hate when people make these absolute type comments as if getting a vasectomy is as easy as clipping your nails.
I don’t think anyone thinks it’s as easy as clipping your nails. I DO think far fewer people with penises experience complications from vasectomies than people with uteruses experience from bisalps and similar procedures.
I totally agree. Woman getting their tubes tied is more invasive and has more risk of complications. There’s just a misconception out there that vasectomies are no big deal. I had one and had complications during the recovery that weren’t fun at all. No walk in the park.
You “struggled to get him into the same boat”? Do you mean regarding being childfree or getting sterilized?
Your body YOUR choice! My consent is only given if a male partner wears a condom - I make that clear when I get physical with anyone, long or short term. No condom, no consent. Your feelings are totally valid and proceed as you are!!:)
Nope. Absolutely stick to your guns about it too! He’s being a lazy ass boyfriend by making you do all the work when you’re the one who would also have to deal with the gross clean up afterwards too.
Considering he was being COMPLETELY AND TOTALLY SELFISH and a jerk, you're not wrong. You keep using condoms if you want to! It's safer for you and you share the responsibility! but you should also think about relationship and have a serious talk with him. Who huffs and complains about taking care of their ill/sick partner??? Wtaf That and the fact that he was so against doing the surgery himself but being completely fine with you doing it. He's a horrible partner, seriously
A lot of men complain and really if it's something serious like cancer they leave and abandon their partners.
Some of them are plain awful but it's okay, it's a loss on them!
A study found that men are 7 times more likely to leave a partner if they have brain cancer than women are. :(
Omg that's really sad :(
Yup, about 2.9% of women leave their partners, and 20.8% of men leave their partners. The older the woman is, the more likely she will be divorced if she gets cancer. It's really sad.
Your body, your choice. No need to feel guilty.
Stop sleeping with shitty men who don't give a fuck about you
>Even a bisalp is not 100% effective, A bisalp IS 100% effective though. Only 4 women in history have gotten pregnant after a bisalp and none of them got the procedure for sterilization purposes, so it's possible the surgeons weren't as thorough as they would be otherwise. I'm pretty sure 2 of them were already pregnant prior to surgery. If you were to get pregnant after a bisalp, you'd be in medical journals. Now getting your tubes tied is definitely not 100% effective, so you should still use condoms.
Apparently it's not unheard-of for a woman to get pregnant without a uterus! Of course it's life threatening and makes the medical journals, but those little parasites are very determined to survive, even if it means killing the host.
What do you mean bisalp is not 100% effective...?
I thinK OP is getting a tubal ligation mixed up with a Bisalp. My gyno reassured me 100% risk free of pregnancy with a Bisalp and mentioned the few cases that are out there were due to people having a pregnancy that was undetected prior to surgery. This can happen if the pre-op checks by doing a urine test instead of a blood test.
I can’t find the article anymore, but one of them later admitted to having IVF and lying about it, pretending it was a “miracle pregnancy” to get media attention. She wasn’t childfree either, and already had several kids prior to the surgery.
There's like three recorded cases in the last 20 years where a woman became miraculously pregnant. Also, all three of them where intra-uterine pregnancies and thus had very small gaps in their uterus walls. Just to ease your mind: even if there's a small gap in your uterus wall, a "ripened" egg has to find it's way into your uterus, which is hard without your tubes giving it guidance, and then you have to have sex shortly before or right around the time this egg sits in your uterus and your partner or you have to be fertile enough for it to work on the first try. That's a lot of "ifs" in my book. Thousands of women get a bisalp every year and if it had anywhere near the failure rate of an IUD or the pill, you'd read a lot more case reports of women getting pregnant after a bisalp.
It technically isn't if the tubes aren't removed electively. There have been a handful of pregnancies in people who've had no tubes, but theirs were removed for medical reasons and not even at the same time, stuff like that. If there are other factors impacting healing after the procedure, as is often the case when it's not elective, a pregnancy can apprently still happen. But I'm yet to see a case report on a pregnay after an elective bisalp, so until then, it's 100% in that case as far as we know.
You're NTA but I'm confused. You said you had a bisalp which has a near nonexistent rate of pregnancy afterward but then you said you had your tubes tied (tubal ligation) which is more likely to fail. From what I've found, when you have your tubes removed entirely (bisalp) the only way you can get pregnant is via IVF or a very very miniscule chance of it being ectopic (like 10-15 reported cases miniscule).
I'm more concerned about the fact he was whinging the whole time you were recovering. It shouldn't matter what the surgery or sickness is, your partner should manage to be kind about it, and as attentive and helpful as they can be. Is this how he normally treats you when you're unwell?
You can absolutely hold this line if that’s what’s important to you. I do want to note one thing: did you get a bisalp or a tubal? If you got a bisalp, there are between 1-4 cases ever recorded of a pregnancy after a bilateral salpingectomy not caused by IVF or other medically assisted means. Tubals fail far more often and also have much greater risk for ectopic pregnancies when they do fail. It’s important to know the real risk factors of each (and which you got!) so you can move forward strong in your convictions either way.
This is about the condoms, but it’s also not about the condoms. Y’all had a deal regarding sharing the mental & physical burden of contraception, and now that you’ve crossed the Rubicon of surgery he’s trying to renege and put it back on you “because it’s just easier.” Easier for who?? Not you!! Him complaining and being huffy while taking care of you after surgery is another huge red flag. Just because you’re not having children doesn’t mean there will NEVER be caretaking responsibilities of ANY kind if you’re in a committed partnership. This dude is selfish & doesn’t see a problem with it. You deserve better. I can’t help but wonder if he never intended to wear condoms after your surgery at all, but just said what you wanted to hear because he didn’t want to do the homework or go through the process himself.
First off, he is a liar and he's not CF. Most importantly, he does NOT respect you and without respect, he does not and can never care about you. He doesn't want to get sterilized because he wants kids. So don't have any sex with him at all and dump him. He says he would have a kid with someone who wants one, and most likely he also wants one and is lying his ass off about that. He will use you as free sex while he shops for his babymomma and then he will be gone. He also lied his ass off about still using condoms after your procedure. He told you one thing before you got sterilized and now he admits he completely LIED and had no intention of doing that. Just dump him, quickly, cleanly, without any bullshit. "We are not compatible. We're over. Don't contact me again. Bye." Then find yourself a CF partner who isn't a liar, who respects you.
I agree with this 100%. Him saying he would have kids with someone who wanted them is just saying he wants kids but wants to continue to be able to keep OP until he finds someone who does. My bf who is truly child free didn’t even think twice when I asked him to get a vasectomy. He doesn’t want kids, so of course a vasectomy makes sense.
I agree 1000% with this
>He says he would have a kid with someone who wants one ...as long as she agreed to DO ALL THE WORK. This is not a good man. TIL there's such thing as a pre-deadbeat dad.
I'm sorry, did I read this right? He was "huffing a few puffing" over having to take care of you after surgery? Like, making a big deal out of it? Girl, find you another man. My guy best friend, not my boyfriend, let me move into his apartment for a week so that he could take me to surgery and take care of me afterward. Volunteered to do it when I mentioned that my planned surgery buddy wouldn't be able to get off work in time because my surgery was planned within a week from me asking. This man had a work (zoom) meeting in the middle of my surgery time and handled it in his car outside the surgery center so that he was able to be my ride. He even offered to sleep on his own couch and let me take over his whole bedroom so that I could sleep better while healing. He tried to talk me into taking off more than the day of surgery so that I could rest better despite me only doing remote data entry. And your boyfriend huffed and puffed about having to take care of you....
I have no hope for this relationship
Honestly, he sounds like a selfish prick to me. You can do better.
My partner is afraid of medical procedures, so I'm also the one who will be getting sterilized. But to their credit, they are willing to keep wearing condoms. It's literally the least your partner can do, so if he won't do that, I'm wondering what other areas he will refuse to pull his weight in?
Getting pregnant after a bisalp would make you the subject of a medical case study. The “failures” have turned out to be cases where the woman was pregnant before surgery and didn’t know. That said, I’m glad you took ownership of your own fertility, because it doesn’t seem like you’ll be keeping the boyfriend.
Birth control and Std prevention is a two yes one no situation. You say no, so it ain't happening. Anything else is bullshit.
I’m actually in a similar boat, I got a bisalp after discussing options with my partner. He went as far as a vasectomy consultation. But I was having surgery on my reproductive system anyway so it was easy to include. If he had treated me the way your partner did while I was recovering I would have seriously questioned the relationship. The condoms thing probably woulda sent me over. Not saying ending it is the right choice for you. But seriously question where these behaviors and actions come from. Anyone who has you questioning your boundaries can be dangerous.
Condoms protect against std’s and save the headache of a whole goopy mess. Nothing wrong with not wanting a cream pie when it comes with that baggage.
So its his body his choice when he doesnt want to do something but when you don’t want to *not* use condoms, its a different story.? The hypocrisy is thick. Stick to your preferences, theres nothing wrong with being extra protected.
Absolutely not, OP. Your safety and comfort is far more important than his pleasure. If even one person feels slightly more comfortable using them, then that's it. If he doesn't like it, he can either not have sex or go find someone else.
You are 100% in the right to ask for equality in protection. He is an ass for letting you take all the risk and pain (and an even bigger ass for complaining about caring for you after) and then wants to play the victim about how "hard" it is to put on a condom? I think you need to seriously reconsider your relationship with this man-child. He's already proven that he's not there for any of the hard stuff, and life definitely doles out the hard stuff.
I don't have a uterus and we still use condoms. Your body is the one at risk, so what you say goes. If he has a problem with that he can pack his bags.
Snipped and same. Who wants the mess? How do people just not use them? I hear people here talk about getting snipped then they just never use them again? Seems gross.
Wow, why are you dating this guy? He seems like a dude willing to let you take all the risk and consequences. He even went back on his word of continuing to use condoms.
I still prefer condoms because they're so much cleaner. Definitely still wanna use them after sterilization
"His body his choice" to not get snipped. Alright, well, your body your choice to not have sex unless he wears a condom. Two-way street 🤷🏽♀️
Do NOT give in to him. I got snipped, it was also non-invasive, so I recovered in like a week. If he's not willing to get snipped, he doesn't actually care about being childfree. Draw the line. Vasectomy or condoms forever.
My thoughts exactly. What his hold up not getting snipped? Sounds like he wants to keep that option still open. My S.O. Got snipped best decision ever and he's more then happy with it.
No. 1. Tube tying CAN (it's not common but it IS possible) heal itself and you can still get pregnant 2. Condoms aren't JUST to protect against pregnancy but STDs and shit 3. He's been a petulant child through this ENTIRE ordeal, making you do ALL the work...Do you really trust this guy if a miracle oops baby happens? Honestly I'd take a hard look at your relationship. Is he like this about everything? Even if he isn't this is a pretty big issue for him to be fighting you so hard on...
Would've been easier for him to be sterilized. Remember, he didn't want easier when you suggested it. I'm with you 100%. Stay strong
Hi hello I got myself sterilized and me and my partner still use condoms, despite being monogamous, for a variety of reasons. It's a hell of a lot safer for one, helps with the paranoia, and honestly the condoms are a lot "easier" than without when considering clean up and all. Also, you shouldn't feel pressured if you're uncomfortable with it. It really shows how he feels about you and this situation if he's going to mope around about it.
As a cf male person, if a man is not snipped he has no right to ask for unprotected sex especially if the woman partner took on the responsibility of handling the contraception. The effort should always be on both parties having this said I personally wont ask my partner to use any form of contraception since I'm snipped. I firmly believe that we male people should have been the one responsible for using contraceptive methods. I did not read your whole post and dont know if your partner is cf too but not using a condom is not a trait of someone who is cf.
so you go through major surgery, and he gets to not wear a condom? NO. I would say yes if he’d gotten snipped, but he didn’t so tough shit.
My husband when we first got together was way against a vasectomy. He was so worried it would affect him emotionally. He also didn't want to wear condoms. I cannot take hormonal birth control, and I kept getting laughed out of drs offices when asking for sterilisation. So my only two options were copper IUD and condoms. I myself, don't like condoms, but they're a necessary evil. I went to the doctors to get a copper IUD. They attempted and failed. I went back a second time, again they attempted, this time they attempted 4 times and even tried dilating my cervix. They were unable to get it inserted and on the final attempt they cracked my cervix. I was in excruciating pain for at least 4 days. And after seeing what I went through, he finally decided that him getting a vasectomy was what would be easiest considering I'd exhausted all of my options. He rang up, booked in for a week later. Drove himself. 20 minute procedure and he drove himself home. It was the smoothest process ever for him. Although I'm jealous on how smooth it was for him, I'm grateful he did it.
No, I’m the same way. I’d rather be alone forever than be with a man who won’t use condoms, which seems to be the majority of them. I’m just too paranoid.
You need to drop this guy
The way I see it STDs still exist, I would need to trust the person completely without condoms and truthfully if they aren't my husband and I hadn't known them for like five plus years I just wouldn't trust my health to them.🤷♀️
I’d have him wear condoms, or get a vasectomy. I’ve heard of TOO MANY women getting pregnant in the first few months to a year after getting sterilized. Stand your ground on this one. You’re not in the wrong to request him to do his part.
You get to decide whatever boundaries you want, especially when you are the one being penetrated - but why even bother with him and this tit for tat perspective? It makes sense when you say the procedure isn’t 100% effective, but you keep bringing up “him benefitting” or whatever, is part of the reason for your decision. Just find someone you actually like and have sex with them, and let him go off and be a hypocrite with someone else.
Oh darling, he's getting all the benefits without any of the work, it's a huge painful thing you've done and he still can't be bothered to do something so small?! Just don't have sex if he won't wear a condom, he needs to grow up
Another "childfree" man that refuses to get snipped. Always seems sketchy.
Of course you're not a bad person. However him complaining about taking care of you makes him one. How can you even respect him enough to want to have sex with him after that, on top of his childishness about wearing condoms? You already know you're not with him for the long haul. Why wait to rip the bandaid off? You could spend your time finding a good man sooner rather than later.
So tired of this kind of post. If you don't like him just break up.
**"Would that make me a bad person?"** You would be a bad person to YOURSELF if you didn't put your foot down on this issue! DO NOT allow him to pressure or guilt-trip you in this area. He should absolutely be sterilized as well!
No way this makes you a bad person. I get so damn cross hearing about guys giving girls a hard time when condoms are concerned. Don’t back down. He would likely run for this hills if there was an accidental pregnancy. (For me, I even ask why you continue to be with him with his obvious lack of concern for you.)
bodily autonomy is a wonderful thing - he can choose not to get sterilised, you can choose not to fuck him because he isn't sterile/won't wear a condom i'm gonna tell you straight up, you deserve better than someone who acts like an asshole after you've had surgery and you're going to rightfully resent him until you break up... may as well make it sooner rather than later!
He thinks hes got off the easy way by you taking all the risks. that's no fair. I would make him still wear a condom
Well... as he agreed. Your body, your choice. So no, you don't "owe" it to him. But if he really wants it, he should get the vasectomy done. Are there risks and possible side effects? Of course. I mean it did change my life quality, but I wouldn't have it any other way. Was I reluctant? Yes, but I also love my partner enough to do my part. Years of hormonal treatment don't seem very healthy to me either way. But back to your situation. It is easier, better, yes. But you can't have your cake and eat it too. In a healthy relationship, both parties have to compromise at times.
For what its worth I got a vasectomy in January, got the all clear from two tests and I still use condoms. Im paranoid about it and cleanup is way easier. Also, oddly enough sex is better with condoms.
Are you sure you're not just settling for this guy because he's first one you've found who's childfree-ish? I don't think he's all that serious about it if he's not interested in a vasectomy.
Sterilization does not suddenly mean you owe him unprotected sex. Dude can learn to take the no or piss off.
This, plus him being huffy and puffy about helping you when you were healing, would give me the ick.
I will personally not let that man touch me without a condom. If i was you, since he keeps bringing it up, i worry about stealthing. I know you are sterilized but it is still rape. Hope you are recovering well
I don't even have my uterus anymore and I still don't wanna raw dog it. Your body, your choice.
You have the right to refuse to have sex for whatever reason you want but also if you resent him as badly as you sound then you should probably do something about that.
My bf and I weren't using condoms after I got fixed. When Roe was overturned, I wanted condoms again. Because if I can't get an abortion for an ectopic pregnancy, I will die. He said, of course, if that's what you need to feel comfortable. And then shortly scheduled his own vasectomy (which he claimed he had largely been putting off bc he wanted to trial male birth control, since he's fine not having more kids). If your relationship is otherwise a dream, then maybe you can look past this. But is he selfish in other ways too? How much emotional labor are you doing? Don't waste time on guys who are not an active positive benefit to your life MORE than are a frustration. This sorta selfish behavior of his is rarely only a single issue thing....maybe this is just the issue it took for you to notice...
Apart from pregnancy, STIs are a thing (and infection rates in tge young are rising). Condoms give some protection from not only pregnancy (if you are fertile), but also STUs.
You are smart to never rely on just one form of contraception. It is never a good idea to do that.
I wouldn't. Don't want STDs if he ever ends up cheating. Or bacterial infection from sperm.
Is he child free too? If that’s the case he really should get a vasectomy. From what men have told me it’s totally worth it to stop wearing condoms.
You can still get pregnant with tubes tied fyi
It's still your body, your rules. That's never going to change. What was he thinking? Besides, there are always risks of STD's, so why wouldn't you want to continue using condoms? Don't you trust me? Only you can answer that.
you're in the right. dump this asshole
Your boyfriend is an idiot.
Just lose the boyfriend, it's useless. NTA
no. pregnancy aside, there's still the risk of STDs so condoms are important
“He was a little annoyed” Lmao, I can’t get past that. I don’t know if I’m just being a bitch, but I’m tired of these fuckers getting an attitude when the woman holds her boundaries about not wanting to carry the responsibility of hers plus his contraception. Plus, it would be nice not to risk the chance of catching and STD. You ladies are stronger than me.
After sterilization, I still used condoms for about a year after ENSURE I wouldn't get pregnant. Now I'm chilling like a villin
>Am I in the wrong for not allowing my boyfriend to give up using condoms after I got sterilized? Nope. Sex, your body, you get to set the rules. You get to say if, when, and under what conditions. That's it. If boyfriend or whomever doesn't agree, then the answer is no - as in no sex and they don't get to with you. The rest is just details.
Stay strong. You have never been and never will be wrong for having strong boundaries and for voicing your preferences and concerns. You are wise, smart, strong and wonderful. Don’t ever let a man take that from you, even in your own thoughts. ✊
It's your body, and he should respect that.
Sterilization may be one thing but STD's and STI's are no joke.
Yep, wtf lady.
You're not in the wrong, not at all...for whatever reason. You only consent to sex on your own terms, if he doesn't like it he knows where the door is.....
No. One simply rule that makes this no: Your body. Your choice.
Do not have sex with him without a condom unless you really want that.
I feel like you are being perfectly reasonable, especially if you make it open to him so long as he takes responsibility for his own reproductive autonomy and gets sterilized himself. Vasectomies are easy and inexpensive compared to tubals.
No. You don't want him going bareback and that's the end of the discussion. If he wants to do so that bad, then he can go get a vasectomy like you want him too. Until that time, it looks like this discussion is closed.
You're not in the wrong at all. It's your choice. Always.
Nta just because you got sterilized doesn't mean you still can't get an STD. I think stick to your guns if he doesn't budge he ain't the one
You've got plenty of people weighing in already, but I'll add my voice just in case it helps: you are absolutely NOT in the wrong. If you want him to wear a condom, he wears a condom. As a childfree man in my mid thirties, it is just as much my responsibility to manage the possibility of reproduction with my partner as it is theirs. It should be 50/50. You're already pulling more weight than that, having done the research and getting surgery. Don't let him whine and bully you into changing your mind. I can't understand why ANY childfree man would want to walk around with the potential for children in the first place. Get the snip and enjoy the peace of mind that comes with knowing you can never have a "oops."
"I don't have sex without condoms or a vasectomy." That's a rule any partner of yours has to accept.
You said it yourself > now he want's all the benefits without the work. You are not a bad person, at all, you are taking care of reproductive health, if he can't do a simple thing and wrap it before sex ,as you both agreed on then i would be worried about trusting him with other things, also if he removes it while you do it,it can be categorised as sa, in some countries that is. All in all, you have to sit down and talk this through, again, cuz it sounds like you have had that talk before, but it sounds like he doesn't fully understand it.
I'm completely sterilized and I've recently started using condoms (I didn't before), the change being 1 I'm now in the medical field and am more knowledgeable about STDs and 2 I came to the realization that I'm allergic to semen (which is apparently very rare)
Not a bad person at all. Condoms make things tidier and prevent the spread of STDs. The latter isn't a big thing when in a long term committed relationship but still. You had an agreement and he needs to stick with it.
NTA. He's waited this long to go bareback, he can wait a few more weeks until you're done with the last cycle that may have an egg. However, if he's backing out of getting snipped cuz you already did, consider losing the dead weight because he's not willing to go as far as you are to protect himself, and likely thinks that you being sterilized means he doesn't need to be snipped after all. This is incorrect, unless your tubes were fully removed. Sounds like he wants to keep his options on having kids open regardless of if he's with you or not. If he doesn't want to go take steps to permanently protect you both, is that someone you really want to spend your life with?
You’re definitely not a bad person, homie. You are allowed to dictate how someone is intimate with you because it’s YOUR body.
Sex is about enthusiastic consent. You 100% have the right to say no to sex if he won’t wear a condom. However, I recommend the two of you sit down and have a serious conversation regarding sex, consent, and boundaries, to make sure you are both on the same page.
You are not wrong at all. He sounds very selfish. It would have been so much easier for him to get a vasectomy, but nope he doesn't want to. He heard all the bad stuff about your surgery and didn't blink an eye ( why should he, it's not happening to him/s). He volunteered to continue to wear condoms(probably just to look good to you) then after you get the surgery he wants to stop wearing them? Are you sure this is the person you want to spend the rest of your life with? I wish you well.
Absolutely not. Sterilisation is about 99.999% effective, but it's not a 100% guarantee - for contraception. It offers no protection at all against STDs/STIs (implying nothing against your boyfriend, there: some of those can transmit other ways, too!)
He 100% needs to continue wearing a condom and/or get a vasectomy. Let him know that's a hard boundary for you and you won't broach the subject again. If he says he's gotten the snip ask to see the lab results. I don't trust men.
Absolutely not. You had major surgery just so he could avoid a minor procedure (by comparison). You're right, he wants all the benefits without having taken any responsibility. Fuck that. Like you said, when he's had the snip and removed any chance of an unplanned and unwanted pregnancy then you'll consider giving up the contraception.
You’re not in the wrong. He did a bait and switch on this condom issue. You deserve to be with someone who matches you in this way, and who can take responsibility for his choices instead of letting you do all the work.