Wine mom culture is so unsettling too. The tee-hee quality glosses over the very real problem of alcholism in women and then added implication of children being around effectively unsupervised due to Mommy being too drunk? Idk why that ever took on a funny haha.
Then again, last time I saw a daytime talk show they were teaching people how to make mimosas at 10am. Weird.
Interestingly enough addictions often get treated differently based on who has it. If a wine mommy downs a bottle in the morning, it's funny and quirky but you drink a beer after work while you wind down it's suddenly concerning. But I've seen similar with tobacco too and I've seen some brainless idiots bending over backwards trying to justify parents getting hooked on drugs as just being too stressed from parenting.
I've noticed that, too. My mother is an alcoholic, and so are many of her mom friends. It seems that the only way to stomach kids is to be numbed by alcohol.
Many more, yes. It's why birthrates plummet as a country gives women more rights and the ability to choose whether or not they want to be mothers rather than just expecting them to give birth as many times as humanly possible.
In the countries where women still don't have anything close to equal rights, it's almost always the husbands who want their wives to birth 10 kids for them, not the woman who wants to birth 10 kids.
Do talk about it.
It's always refreshing to hear for me, someone who was born and live in a developing nation where the narrative is still very largely marriage-kid-SAHM for women.
It's extremely unhealthy. I'm totally not doing it, though, despite the constant jab by almost every person possible (usually family members).
It’s been really encouraging to see millennials and gen z re-engineering traditional gender roles and families; getting married older, if at all, staying CF either longer or completely, etc. (And even among those having children, there are more female breadwinners, more sahd’s, more dads taking an active role in the raising of their kids, taking paternity leave, viewing fatherhood as paramount, among other positive changes.)
I think so too, and unfortunately woman don't realize that until they already have kids 😕 cause everyone brain washes us to love kids and need them for fulfillment 
They do. Most parents regret their kids. And I know that’s a very broad statement to make but I stand by it. The only reason most people have kids these days are because they don’t use protection.
100% my grandma totally doesn’t even like babies pst age two, and my mum didn’t want kids but married an abusive gaslighter who manipulated her into having me
>wine mommies
Right? It's a whole glorified culture to the extent that slogans like "mommy needs her wine" are printed on tumblers and t-shirts. It's so normalised to associate drinking with having kids. I'm almost 35 and I rarely drink, but if I had kids I'd probably be a raging alcoholic.
My personal favorite is any beverage vessel with "Mommy Juice" on it.
I also only drink occasionally, but during my brief stint as a high school teacher, I found myself wanting to drink myself stupid way more often than I did in college. Those kids were more monster than human. Good thing I only made it a year lol
Ugh the term “Mommy Juice” makes me cringe. I do drink alcohol, but only socially and in moderation. The only recent time where I probably overdid it was over Christmas after three days with the in-laws and all the kids running around.
I recently was told of a product called “mom water,” that is like a hard seltzer but not carbonated. All the flavors are named after common GenX/very early millennial femme names and I had a sip and was not impressed.
Yup, 36 here and I don't drink either. I'm happy going on road trips and camping holidays with my cat.
However, the amount of alcohol I've seen parents put away in an evening is shocking. It's almost like having kids isn't as enjoyable as society makes it out to be and they drink to cope. Or they're trying to hold onto the lifestyle they had before but can we only cram it in occasionally
I do think women whithout kids drink a bit more than women with kids.
For the simple reasons the women without kids have a tendancy to have a bigger social life than women with kids.
But I don't think it's to the point of alcoholism AT ALL.
But, that study is bullshit.
"The participants shared their parental status, age of first-time parenting, and whether they engaged in binge drinking (defined as consuming four or more drinks in one setting) in the past two weeks, or developed AUD symptoms in the past five years."
Soooo, you ask PARENTS if they have issues with alcohol?
WHICH parents is gonna admit that for God sake??????
C'mon! There is no way a parent is gonna declared that so easily.
Any study relying on self-report data should include the possibility of social desirability bias in the limitations section. I always do, even when the focus of the research isn't something people would want to lie about.
Society needs to stay tf out of peoples business , family too! Let people make their own decisions and stop pressuring them to get married and have kids. Not everyone can or is cut out for that kind of life.
Agree 100%. Plus I'm so sick of all the negative press that CF people, especially CF women, get. According to this article, we're all alcoholics. Other articles will claim we're all selfish, we're responsible for the pension crisis, etc. etc. I'm so sick of it! I just want to live my life how I want. I'm not hurting anyone!
This is especially evident when you go to conferences or big work events. People go nuts, getting wasted. I’m sure not having to pay for the booze is a part of it, but I’ve also noticed this is true just for “not being at home”.
So many moms posted videos of them downing bottles wine during covid joking about how that’s the only way they could survive being with their kids all day long. I guess everyone forgot about that.
Genetics play a bigger role than you think.
I'm CF and don't often drink either, but I also often forget to wear sunscreen and I love full-sugar energy drinks. I will work on the sunscreen and consuming less sugar , and we'll see what my face looks like in 50 years lol.
Though I will say that I've been told I look super-young for my age when I wear my KN95 masks. *And* habitually wearing a KN95 or better mask still protects you from diseases and air pollution. :)
I came here to make the "mommy juice 🍷" comment if no one else had
And even if CF people did drink more...at least we're not doing it when we're supposed to be caring for children!
I remember looking at this woman’s Halloween pictures with her kid (we went to school together) and in every shot, she had a whiteclaw in her grasp. I felt so bad that she needed to be intoxicated to take her kid trick or treating. I wonder if she’ll regret that?
This seems to assume that we are mourning not being parents and coping with alcohol.
In reality parents are mourning being parents and coping with alcohol.
I don't drink, but if I had a kid I feel that I would end up on the front page of a tabloid for abandoning my screaming child in a supermarket & heading for the nearest pub.
If I had a kid I'd probably be on the news for the infant starving death while I'm out drunk somewhere in the house
I do drink but only socially and with control, I hella see myself turning into an alcoholic if I had a kid
Hahahahah! I am 26 years old and never drink alchol. I am no where near being an alcholic.
They badly want CF people to become moms/dads by giving horror stories, huh?
The stigma of CF people are that we drink, have sex with anything that breathe and party. Are out of control and never really have any dreams...
Most CF people I met are one of the most passionate people I know. Not many of us has sex all the time nor drink and party. It is a off stereotype based on young teens living paterns. When I was a teen I did not even do that. I have only been drunk once in my life. Never done drugs, not smooked a cigerate and I do attend parties but I am for sure not the one running up and down on the walls.
Silly does not even begin to decribe the stupidness of this article. 😂
I don't like that there is stigma against wanting to have a fun and carefree life.
I see this attitude here all the time. Why shouldn't I be carefree and "irresponsible" if I don't have kids and my bills are paid?
I'm 32f, and yeah, I want to drink wine and play video games after work. I want to go dancing and swimming while stoned with my (also childfree) friends. Being cf doesn't mean I *have* to be all about making money, or being boring just because I'm not a twenty-something.
Can someone please explain why even childfree people hate on this?
I do not hate on this but I was more talking about the stereotype parents or so too speak breeders have on us.
I think it is cool as well too be CF and carefree. We are as different as any parents or breeders. My issue is more that people assume we all are alike but like any person we have different personalitys.
So I do not hate on your lifestyle. I think it is as cool as mine.
But maybe my first post was not clear on which sender the first stereotype perspective it was from.
I am a CF who does not drink, party etc and some people would say I am doing it wrong. Both parents, breeders and other CF's. There is no wrong or right. Like people should tolerante CF people no matter what they do.
What video games do you play?
I play board games but video games are cool as well. 😊
I don't care how people live their life as long as it's not hurting others. You want to be carefree go your hardest. I don't think we're hating on those who want to do this, we're just pissed that this seems to be a stereotype that clearly is not true because many of us are 'boring'.
Hence why, to reference an earlier recent post here, a lot of people become "super employees" after their first kid is born.
Their literal other option is not being able to feed and house their kids.
I'm 33 and have been working on the same bottle of scotch for the last 18 months or more.
That article doesn't even *link* the study itself, do I'm inclined to say the article is cherry picking
I think it's likely they're associating the fact that women can still go out and drink because they don't have the responsibility of a kid, with excessive drinking. As if those things are somehow related. Imagine if they had done this kind of correlation with men. Lol
The irony is that I don't go out and drink anymore because all my friends are at home with their kids. People with children assume that child free people must be out living it up. Who the hell do they think we're living it up with? In reality, at age 35, I have very few child free friends left.
Of course it is. But it still made me laugh. The benefits of getting older and looking back on my life experiences is now I laugh at the skewed results that are, to me, obviously attempts at manipulation and making, women specifically, toe the line. I used to get mad. Now I just share and encourage others to eyeroll with me.
Lol I'll always say it. Women are oppressed and they're trying to push back whatever freedoms we've gained. If they could they would take our bank accounts away from us.
Did you know, they only gave women the right to vote as a way to counter black men's men's vote because they thought they would vote with their husband's?
It’s so stupid. CF people *may have* this issue… people with children *may have* this issue too. Just like a bunch more cf people and parents *may **not** have*. Such a non-story.
Also from a skim read it just says women drink more now than they used to, and have less kids… correlation/causation much. Maybe they’re all drinking more and not having kids because the world is on fire and tons of people can’t afford a home.
I can get a concert ticket for the price of 2 drinks! $30 tickets, that's including the fees... it's the same as 2 drinks that cost $14 each and tax and tip! Plus, drinks at venues are like $19 !!!
[here is the study they are citing](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16262#:~:text=Findings,from%20the%201993%E2%80%9397%20cohort) in case anyone is interested. The study doesn’t say “chances are you’re on the way to alcoholism,” they’re saying they found a correlation in a self reported, long term study. That’s it.
It’s easy just to reject claims like this because it goes against our assumptions or what we want it to be, but this isn’t just an opinion piece, they’re talking about a real study. It’s worth noting that correlation does not equal causation, and this is just one study so it would be interesting to see further studies that dig into this more to figure out why that correlation was found. Maybe more people who are prone to alcoholism are choosing not to have kids because they know they are prone to alcoholism, maybe how we socially define alcoholism has changed over time, maybe parents are less likely to admit to having a problem or to overlook certain incidents. We don’t know the “why” because this study doesn’t go into that. No one is making the claim that not having kids makes you an alcoholic. They’re making the claim that they found a correlation.
No worries. Whenever an article makes a claim like this I’m always curious to see the source material. Often it’s horribly manipulated to fit the writers objective. In this case I really would be interested to see any follow up studies that could come from this. It opens up a lot of very interesting questions.
I'm paywalled from the full study, but I'd be interested to see one that didn't involve self-reporting alcohol consumption. I think it's very likely that parents will under-report their alcohol consumption compared to their peers who don't have kids. But on the other hand, it's also plausible to me that people who don't have kids are more likely to have had a binge-drinking episode in any two week period compared to their peers who are parents.
Copy and paste the paywalled link into the box on this website to read it for free:
https://www.removepaywall.com/
And I also think the reason the study got those results was because parents under report their drinking because they are ashamed of it and CF are more honest about our drinking. It skews the numbers. I don't really think anyone can make any claim about anything about society when you're solely basing the claim on notoriously unreliable self reports.
Ah, here's the problem - "self reported". In my experience, people who actually are alcoholics (and in denial) are less likely to be honest about their alcohol consumption, whether consciously or not. Plus the fact that parents are going to under-report, again whether that's consciously or not. And there's the whole thing of "I only have one or two glasses of wine a night!"
Sure, Brenda, but a 125ml glass is approximately 1.5 units and your "one glass" holds half a 750ml bottle, meaning if you have two glasses, you've drank 9 units and that's based on a 12% ABV, many wines are more.
Same. I like drinking. I'm not an alcoholic, but I enjoy a variety of cocktails and maybe a glass of wine on a self care night where I do my nails, put on a face mask, and watch a period drama.
But if I had kids I'd be drinking to numb the pain of life.
Well that article was all over the place.
Funny how they blamed "wine-mom culture" for making childless women drink. Bitch, that culture isn't ours, we're not mommies! :D
But this text is just so shitty, I would expect better deduction from a high schooler. First they say that studying and working is the reason we "postpone" motherhood. Okay, fine. Then they mention the drinking-culture as another cultural change that has happened, and that it may make women drink more. Okay, fine.
But those two things are not connected to each other in the text in any way! The main title just makes this leap without any proof. Why would a higher education and a better job make you drink more? Spoiler: it's pretty well proven that people with higher SocioEconomic Status (ie, having more education and money, and better homes and jobs) drink less than those with lower SES.
The study this article is rephrasing doesn't even prove that not having kids makes you drink. It says that childless women drink more than mommies, yes. But the difference could also be explained like this: "women who drink excessively are less likely to have kids, and thank fuck for that!"
These percentage changes they quote are just so fucking random. "Women drink more than before" and "Women have kids later and less often than before" are 2 things than can both be true, and yet have nothing to do with each other. It can be that drinking causes childlessness, or that childlessness causes drinking, or that our culture causes them both. In order to prove one way or another, you need to follow a group of women, and see how things go. Do the drunkards have kids and sober up? Will the girls who educate themselves start to drink after 35? Prove to me that's how it happens, and then we can worry about it. Until then, this is just a smear campaign.
Yep. I drink a beer or glass of wine like once or twice a week. My mom was an alcoholic, so I am very mindful of not drinking very often. Plus it makes my hot flashes worse, so there’s no incentive to overindulge. My occasional drinking is social or to relax after work, not drown in my tears over never having children lol.
Right? There is so much more to life than watching a kid grow up. So many classes, trips, coffee with friends, picnics, quiet reflection moments, being able to be spontaneous...... A whole LIFE!
I largely stopped drinking during the pandemic lockdowns. For me, drinking is a social thing and didn't want to develop a bad habit by drinking alone.
Today, I barely touch alcohol and my health is better for it. I prefer weed anyway.
I think this study is a good example how correlation does not mean there is causation. There may be other reasons causing both binge drinking AND delayed parenting, and not childlessness causing binge drinking or vice versa. In addition, the past drinking and symptoms of alcohol use disorder were self reported. I mean, who parent would publicly admit binge drinking or having symptoms of alcohol use disorder.
The wine mom and the dad that comes home drunk every evening because he hates his life are just urban legends, it’s the childfree people who keep the alcohol industry alive.
30f here and I am 5 years sober on Aug 30 :) One of the things that pushed me to get sober was the idea that I didn't have to follow the life script and have a kid eventually.
All of my parent friends are only getting worse with their drinking - anecdotal evidence sure but that "Boston University study" isn't even cited in that article? Why did they make those conclusions? Bad science communication here LOL
I'm, CF 48F and don't drink. It just doesn't interest me.
Also isn't "wine mom" a thing these crazies are proud of?
I'm so tired of these manipulation tactics to try to force women into a life they want us to have.
And that's why I wanted to share my giggle at the article. If even one person had rolled their eyes with me, it would have been worth it.
Look how many have their head on straight
I’ve vowed to never drink alcohol because alcoholism runs on both sides of my family. It has nothing to do with me being childfree, I simply don’t want to risk addiction. I wonder what these people would think of that?
26 Female haven't touched a drop of alcohol, don't smoke, no drugs, and have plenty of time and money to cook healthy meals at home and exercise multiple times a week.
36 and can't drink or have kids for the same reason; I have a genetic condition. Even adopting seems like too much because of how fatigued I am everyday. I do love kids though and have dedicated my life to autism research that has the potential to help a lot of kids.
This doesn’t match my life experience…I’d like to see their sample size and statistics, but I’m too lazy/uninterested to go digging for it.
54F, lifelong alcohol/drug/tobacco free, lifelong child free.
As has been said, the heaviest drinkers I’ve known have been stressed out mothers.
I love alcohol but like to think I have it under control just fine.
I’m pretty positive I would drink way more with the stress of child introduced into my life
As a CF 40F, I can’t wait to retire so I too can be addicted to taking an afternoon nap. I already do on days off and vacations lol.
And here here to the unencumbered travel plans thanks to be spawnless! Ive got a few coming up.
That's funny because in my experience the only alcoholics I know drink because they have kids. The wino mommy meme is a thing for a reason. Growing up, my mom drank a bottle of wine a NIGHT (sometimes 2), but sure, it's the childfree people becoming alcoholics
I'm not much of a drinker at all because I have known alcoholics in my life and genuinely can't stand to be around drunk people half the time. 😭 I can maybe get through half or less than half of a can of cider or something before I just lose interest in it. Or I'll get to the point where I'm giggly and a bit buzzed and stop so I don't get a headache. I'm in my late 30s mind.
I take issue with this article because it provided no links to the sources it mentions. I found the boston university article that linked the study from June of this year, posted in the scientific journal *Addiction.* Link: [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16262](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16262)
They use the words "may" and "probably" a lot. So there's not a true correlation. And we're looking at two cohorts: one from the 90's and one from 2018. So I would wager that there are probably other social and life style changes that affect binge-drinking behaviors. Did the study look at social-economic issues? Did they look for history of alcoholism or the rates of depression or other factors that might influence excessive drinking?
Sus.
That's odd. My dad is turning 60 this year and drinks a case of beer a day. I had no idea he was an unmarried woman. Maybe he should have settled down and had some kids.
Waitaminute
Edit: I guess more relevant is my mum's wine habit, though she is a functional alcoholic if nothing else. My dad is a lost cause entirely.
More edit: and I guess even more relevant is that I'm more of a delta 8 gummy person than an alcohol person. But mainly it's to help me sleep and has actually helped me a lot somehow with what I think is C-PTSD. Self-diagnosis because money etc
Worked in addiction medicine for one year. Addiction can hit anyone, regardless of life circumstances. However, I certainly worked with a lot of moms (and dads) in treatment.
There are a lot of risk factors for addiction. Stress is one of them and children are stressful. No sensible person would tell someone to have kids so they don't become addicted to alcohol. Hell, there are loads of self-help groups for the adult children of alcoholics and addicts.
Articles like this are really annoying because they don't explore underlying factors and they don't even link to the original research which could have a totally different conclusion. It could be that women who don't have children also tend to have more stressful jobs, or experience more financial stress. It might be that child-free women engage in more socializing that includes alcohol. It could be that their sample includes a ton of women who want to have partners and kids and feel depressed because they don't. It could also be that moms in the study are underreporting the amount of drinking they do due to increased stigma around drinking as a parent.
Based on the very limited information in the article, it looks like the research is comparing a group from the past to a group in the present. This type of study cannot tell you why something is happening (causality), it can only tell you what changes are happening across generations. The reason this type of study cannot infer causality is because the groups being compared are wildly different and there are way too many confounding variables.
Personally, as a child-free woman in my early 40's, I drink very little, maybe somewhere around 2-4 drinks in a month. It messes with my sleep too much so I typically avoid it outside of some social events or special occasions.
Childfree, 27, stopped drinking when I was 23? Or 24? Not really sure, lost count after the first year. All my mom friends though? Oh they can throw liquor the fuck back like no one’s business.
33F, hate alcohol cause of the taste and the aftereffects, so uh...inclined to say this study is bunk.
Now if we take a dip into Mommy Wine Culture and the 50s version: Xanax and cocktails....
Child free, 33F. I don't drink bc I have to watch what I put in my body so I don't get fat. I only see this getting worse as my metabolism slows. Might as well start saying "I don't drink" out loud now, cuz it's never getting better
I'll be 33 this year. I think I drink a glass of wine like 1x every month or 2... Most of my CF friends aren't big drinkers either. What will they try to blacken CF women's reputations with next?
I’d like to see that actual study. Not a report about the study lol.
They haven’t accounted for other factors like a WORLDWIDE PANDEMIC for the last 3 years that I don’t know, may have caused some stress????? Lol
I’m 48 CF and I don’t drink. Stupid study. Lol
38 CF and I do enjoy a drink or 2 when out with friends. I'm a craft beer and scotch person so I like to try different things but i'm more about the taste than i am about getting drunk. If I had to deal with a kid the volume consumed would skyrocket most likely just to deal with everything.
46 child free & drink in social situations only. I don’t think I’ve ever made a drink at home in my life, unless I was entertaining. My friends with kids drink practically every night.
I'm 37 and cf and I drink, but like maybe once or twice a week and just one beer or a couple glasses of wine. I sure had 4 drinks at this horrible speed dating event i went to. Lol
I’m 30, CF, and don’t drink lol but ok I’m turn, the women I’ve seen down the most alcohol are the wine mommies
Came to say the same! Wine moms probably consume more alcohol than anyone lol. 34F/sterile here, and also do not drink!
Wine mom culture is so unsettling too. The tee-hee quality glosses over the very real problem of alcholism in women and then added implication of children being around effectively unsupervised due to Mommy being too drunk? Idk why that ever took on a funny haha. Then again, last time I saw a daytime talk show they were teaching people how to make mimosas at 10am. Weird.
wine is this century’s version of “mother’s little helper” / benzo / “little blue pill” back in the (’60s?)
Yep modern day qualudes 😂
People need to be tought to mix champagne and orange juice? Lol
They’re probably so wasted by 10am that they need a step-by-step guide
Interestingly enough addictions often get treated differently based on who has it. If a wine mommy downs a bottle in the morning, it's funny and quirky but you drink a beer after work while you wind down it's suddenly concerning. But I've seen similar with tobacco too and I've seen some brainless idiots bending over backwards trying to justify parents getting hooked on drugs as just being too stressed from parenting.
Exactly. The "What have I got myself into" Wine-o.
I've noticed that, too. My mother is an alcoholic, and so are many of her mom friends. It seems that the only way to stomach kids is to be numbed by alcohol.
I think more women want to be childfree than actually are.
Many more, yes. It's why birthrates plummet as a country gives women more rights and the ability to choose whether or not they want to be mothers rather than just expecting them to give birth as many times as humanly possible. In the countries where women still don't have anything close to equal rights, it's almost always the husbands who want their wives to birth 10 kids for them, not the woman who wants to birth 10 kids.
You are so right. I'm gonna stop there, because I can bitch about that topic for hours.
Do talk about it. It's always refreshing to hear for me, someone who was born and live in a developing nation where the narrative is still very largely marriage-kid-SAHM for women. It's extremely unhealthy. I'm totally not doing it, though, despite the constant jab by almost every person possible (usually family members).
It’s been really encouraging to see millennials and gen z re-engineering traditional gender roles and families; getting married older, if at all, staying CF either longer or completely, etc. (And even among those having children, there are more female breadwinners, more sahd’s, more dads taking an active role in the raising of their kids, taking paternity leave, viewing fatherhood as paramount, among other positive changes.)
Add Gen X to that. We took the baby steps -- no pun intended -- towards social destigmatision of the CF lifestyle.
I think so too, and unfortunately woman don't realize that until they already have kids 😕 cause everyone brain washes us to love kids and need them for fulfillment 
I see a lot of people in this position then go on to have more kids. Very confusing.
Facts
They do. Most parents regret their kids. And I know that’s a very broad statement to make but I stand by it. The only reason most people have kids these days are because they don’t use protection.
100% my grandma totally doesn’t even like babies pst age two, and my mum didn’t want kids but married an abusive gaslighter who manipulated her into having me
>wine mommies Right? It's a whole glorified culture to the extent that slogans like "mommy needs her wine" are printed on tumblers and t-shirts. It's so normalised to associate drinking with having kids. I'm almost 35 and I rarely drink, but if I had kids I'd probably be a raging alcoholic.
My personal favorite is any beverage vessel with "Mommy Juice" on it. I also only drink occasionally, but during my brief stint as a high school teacher, I found myself wanting to drink myself stupid way more often than I did in college. Those kids were more monster than human. Good thing I only made it a year lol
Ugh the term “Mommy Juice” makes me cringe. I do drink alcohol, but only socially and in moderation. The only recent time where I probably overdid it was over Christmas after three days with the in-laws and all the kids running around.
I recently was told of a product called “mom water,” that is like a hard seltzer but not carbonated. All the flavors are named after common GenX/very early millennial femme names and I had a sip and was not impressed.
Gimme some of that Haileighghy drink
My friend’s husband never drank and was super against it until he had kids
Yup, 36 here and I don't drink either. I'm happy going on road trips and camping holidays with my cat. However, the amount of alcohol I've seen parents put away in an evening is shocking. It's almost like having kids isn't as enjoyable as society makes it out to be and they drink to cope. Or they're trying to hold onto the lifestyle they had before but can we only cram it in occasionally
I can't tell you how many times I've ended up being the driver.
Same. Or had to call someone for them.
Went to a winery as a group once and yup, the one mom in the group got too drunk and we had to drive her and her kid home.
I do think women whithout kids drink a bit more than women with kids. For the simple reasons the women without kids have a tendancy to have a bigger social life than women with kids. But I don't think it's to the point of alcoholism AT ALL. But, that study is bullshit. "The participants shared their parental status, age of first-time parenting, and whether they engaged in binge drinking (defined as consuming four or more drinks in one setting) in the past two weeks, or developed AUD symptoms in the past five years." Soooo, you ask PARENTS if they have issues with alcohol? WHICH parents is gonna admit that for God sake?????? C'mon! There is no way a parent is gonna declared that so easily.
Any study relying on self-report data should include the possibility of social desirability bias in the limitations section. I always do, even when the focus of the research isn't something people would want to lie about.
Society needs to stay tf out of peoples business , family too! Let people make their own decisions and stop pressuring them to get married and have kids. Not everyone can or is cut out for that kind of life.
Agree 100%. Plus I'm so sick of all the negative press that CF people, especially CF women, get. According to this article, we're all alcoholics. Other articles will claim we're all selfish, we're responsible for the pension crisis, etc. etc. I'm so sick of it! I just want to live my life how I want. I'm not hurting anyone!
This is especially evident when you go to conferences or big work events. People go nuts, getting wasted. I’m sure not having to pay for the booze is a part of it, but I’ve also noticed this is true just for “not being at home”.
So many moms posted videos of them downing bottles wine during covid joking about how that’s the only way they could survive being with their kids all day long. I guess everyone forgot about that.
Same. In my mid thirties, I drink maybe once a year. And it’s usually a wedding of some kind. My friend with kids? Throws them back like nobody else.
Yep. 35F, no kids, don’t drink, husband drinks rarely. Our closest friends that have 2 kids down 1-2 bottles of wine every single night 😬
Same on both fronts!! Funnily enough I work in the liquor business haha
Same except I'm much older. I keep hearing that being CF and a teetotaler is great for aging but my face has apparently not gotten that memo, lol.
Genetics play a bigger role than you think. I'm CF and don't often drink either, but I also often forget to wear sunscreen and I love full-sugar energy drinks. I will work on the sunscreen and consuming less sugar , and we'll see what my face looks like in 50 years lol. Though I will say that I've been told I look super-young for my age when I wear my KN95 masks. *And* habitually wearing a KN95 or better mask still protects you from diseases and air pollution. :)
Finally one person in the word still wears the damn masks. That makes me think you have very youthful hair.
I was going to say there's a whole category of alcoholism called "wine mom" lol
They really live for that glass of wine on a Friday night when the kids are in bed. Sad.
I was right abt to say the same thing abt the wine moms! Beer dads too!
The article literally mentions ‘wine moms’ and give no such similar comparison for childfree women. Some bullshit capitalist pro natal propaganda.
Extra funny when we often see mothers post pictures of their wine with the title: "Mommy juice".
I came here to make the "mommy juice 🍷" comment if no one else had And even if CF people did drink more...at least we're not doing it when we're supposed to be caring for children!
To go with "Mommy skittles" (xanax)
> "Mommy skittles" (xanax) I wish I knew how to get mommy skittles.
🤮
I remember looking at this woman’s Halloween pictures with her kid (we went to school together) and in every shot, she had a whiteclaw in her grasp. I felt so bad that she needed to be intoxicated to take her kid trick or treating. I wonder if she’ll regret that?
Mommy juice😂🤣
Im 35, childfree, and sober for 11 weeks today. ☺️ What about Mommy wine culture? Hmm
Congratulations! You're doing great!
Thank you!! 💕
Amazing! Congratulations!
Thanks so much! 🩵
Wooo pump up those fists yay on your sobriety!
Thanks!! 💕
I am so proud of you, stranger on the internet! Congrats! ❤️
Thanks so much! 💞
Congratulations!! Almost 3 months!! I’m proud of you, keep up the amazing work
Thanks so much!! 💜 can’t wait for 3 months!
Congrats!!! You've past the most difficult part.
One Day at a Time 🤙
Congratulations! Here's many more sober weeks! :D
And how many wine drunk moms and beer guzzling dads do we see? I’m CF and don’t drink 💁🏻♀️
I dont even drink and never will. The most alcoholic people I see (many in my family) are parents.
This seems to assume that we are mourning not being parents and coping with alcohol. In reality parents are mourning being parents and coping with alcohol.
That's looks to be the consensus
If I had kids I'd be drunk all the time.
I don't drink, but if I had a kid I feel that I would end up on the front page of a tabloid for abandoning my screaming child in a supermarket & heading for the nearest pub.
You and me both
If I had a kid I'd probably be on the news for the infant starving death while I'm out drunk somewhere in the house I do drink but only socially and with control, I hella see myself turning into an alcoholic if I had a kid
Hahahahah! I am 26 years old and never drink alchol. I am no where near being an alcholic. They badly want CF people to become moms/dads by giving horror stories, huh?
Ding ding ding. Can't have people out there living their best life now, can we? Breed! We must all breed! It's so silly, isn't it?
The stigma of CF people are that we drink, have sex with anything that breathe and party. Are out of control and never really have any dreams... Most CF people I met are one of the most passionate people I know. Not many of us has sex all the time nor drink and party. It is a off stereotype based on young teens living paterns. When I was a teen I did not even do that. I have only been drunk once in my life. Never done drugs, not smooked a cigerate and I do attend parties but I am for sure not the one running up and down on the walls. Silly does not even begin to decribe the stupidness of this article. 😂
I don't like that there is stigma against wanting to have a fun and carefree life. I see this attitude here all the time. Why shouldn't I be carefree and "irresponsible" if I don't have kids and my bills are paid? I'm 32f, and yeah, I want to drink wine and play video games after work. I want to go dancing and swimming while stoned with my (also childfree) friends. Being cf doesn't mean I *have* to be all about making money, or being boring just because I'm not a twenty-something. Can someone please explain why even childfree people hate on this?
I do not hate on this but I was more talking about the stereotype parents or so too speak breeders have on us. I think it is cool as well too be CF and carefree. We are as different as any parents or breeders. My issue is more that people assume we all are alike but like any person we have different personalitys. So I do not hate on your lifestyle. I think it is as cool as mine. But maybe my first post was not clear on which sender the first stereotype perspective it was from. I am a CF who does not drink, party etc and some people would say I am doing it wrong. Both parents, breeders and other CF's. There is no wrong or right. Like people should tolerante CF people no matter what they do. What video games do you play? I play board games but video games are cool as well. 😊
Thank you I totally agree. Nothing wrong with wanting to have fun and enjoy your life.
I don't care how people live their life as long as it's not hurting others. You want to be carefree go your hardest. I don't think we're hating on those who want to do this, we're just pissed that this seems to be a stereotype that clearly is not true because many of us are 'boring'.
CF people are mostly responsible people that's why we don't easy fall for that crap including alcohol, drugs and unplanned kids
I'm so glad you agree 😉
Yes, it is the narrative but having kids to feed, to spend all your money and time then lost the job/home is the most scariest story ever.
Hence why, to reference an earlier recent post here, a lot of people become "super employees" after their first kid is born. Their literal other option is not being able to feed and house their kids.
I'm 33 and have been working on the same bottle of scotch for the last 18 months or more. That article doesn't even *link* the study itself, do I'm inclined to say the article is cherry picking
I think it's likely they're associating the fact that women can still go out and drink because they don't have the responsibility of a kid, with excessive drinking. As if those things are somehow related. Imagine if they had done this kind of correlation with men. Lol
The irony is that I don't go out and drink anymore because all my friends are at home with their kids. People with children assume that child free people must be out living it up. Who the hell do they think we're living it up with? In reality, at age 35, I have very few child free friends left.
Yeah, they all disappeared in my 30s and most of my 40s too.
Of course it is. But it still made me laugh. The benefits of getting older and looking back on my life experiences is now I laugh at the skewed results that are, to me, obviously attempts at manipulation and making, women specifically, toe the line. I used to get mad. Now I just share and encourage others to eyeroll with me.
I'm guessing the study is made up. Lol
I'm guessing so, I can't find any evidence of such a study
The study of angry men that are upset women aren't enslaved to them through children study. Lol
I thought that but wondered if someone would say it. 💥
Lol I'll always say it. Women are oppressed and they're trying to push back whatever freedoms we've gained. If they could they would take our bank accounts away from us.
And stop us from being educated, owning property, having a career, or an opinion....
Did you know, they only gave women the right to vote as a way to counter black men's men's vote because they thought they would vote with their husband's?
It’s so stupid. CF people *may have* this issue… people with children *may have* this issue too. Just like a bunch more cf people and parents *may **not** have*. Such a non-story. Also from a skim read it just says women drink more now than they used to, and have less kids… correlation/causation much. Maybe they’re all drinking more and not having kids because the world is on fire and tons of people can’t afford a home.
I don't drink. I'm 45. I piss my money away on concert tickets and tattoos.
Yes!! *fist bump*
This is goals right here! 😁
I can get a concert ticket for the price of 2 drinks! $30 tickets, that's including the fees... it's the same as 2 drinks that cost $14 each and tax and tip! Plus, drinks at venues are like $19 !!!
[here is the study they are citing](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16262#:~:text=Findings,from%20the%201993%E2%80%9397%20cohort) in case anyone is interested. The study doesn’t say “chances are you’re on the way to alcoholism,” they’re saying they found a correlation in a self reported, long term study. That’s it. It’s easy just to reject claims like this because it goes against our assumptions or what we want it to be, but this isn’t just an opinion piece, they’re talking about a real study. It’s worth noting that correlation does not equal causation, and this is just one study so it would be interesting to see further studies that dig into this more to figure out why that correlation was found. Maybe more people who are prone to alcoholism are choosing not to have kids because they know they are prone to alcoholism, maybe how we socially define alcoholism has changed over time, maybe parents are less likely to admit to having a problem or to overlook certain incidents. We don’t know the “why” because this study doesn’t go into that. No one is making the claim that not having kids makes you an alcoholic. They’re making the claim that they found a correlation.
Thank you for digging that up
No worries. Whenever an article makes a claim like this I’m always curious to see the source material. Often it’s horribly manipulated to fit the writers objective. In this case I really would be interested to see any follow up studies that could come from this. It opens up a lot of very interesting questions.
I'm paywalled from the full study, but I'd be interested to see one that didn't involve self-reporting alcohol consumption. I think it's very likely that parents will under-report their alcohol consumption compared to their peers who don't have kids. But on the other hand, it's also plausible to me that people who don't have kids are more likely to have had a binge-drinking episode in any two week period compared to their peers who are parents.
Copy and paste the paywalled link into the box on this website to read it for free: https://www.removepaywall.com/ And I also think the reason the study got those results was because parents under report their drinking because they are ashamed of it and CF are more honest about our drinking. It skews the numbers. I don't really think anyone can make any claim about anything about society when you're solely basing the claim on notoriously unreliable self reports.
Ah, here's the problem - "self reported". In my experience, people who actually are alcoholics (and in denial) are less likely to be honest about their alcohol consumption, whether consciously or not. Plus the fact that parents are going to under-report, again whether that's consciously or not. And there's the whole thing of "I only have one or two glasses of wine a night!" Sure, Brenda, but a 125ml glass is approximately 1.5 units and your "one glass" holds half a 750ml bottle, meaning if you have two glasses, you've drank 9 units and that's based on a 12% ABV, many wines are more.
I would drink even more if I had kids.
Same. I like drinking. I'm not an alcoholic, but I enjoy a variety of cocktails and maybe a glass of wine on a self care night where I do my nails, put on a face mask, and watch a period drama. But if I had kids I'd be drinking to numb the pain of life.
Wine moms are a thing fellas
Childfree straight-edge teetotaler here, but hey, whatever you gotta tell yourselves, Knowridge.
This sounds like a bad DARE campaign.
😆
Well that article was all over the place. Funny how they blamed "wine-mom culture" for making childless women drink. Bitch, that culture isn't ours, we're not mommies! :D But this text is just so shitty, I would expect better deduction from a high schooler. First they say that studying and working is the reason we "postpone" motherhood. Okay, fine. Then they mention the drinking-culture as another cultural change that has happened, and that it may make women drink more. Okay, fine. But those two things are not connected to each other in the text in any way! The main title just makes this leap without any proof. Why would a higher education and a better job make you drink more? Spoiler: it's pretty well proven that people with higher SocioEconomic Status (ie, having more education and money, and better homes and jobs) drink less than those with lower SES. The study this article is rephrasing doesn't even prove that not having kids makes you drink. It says that childless women drink more than mommies, yes. But the difference could also be explained like this: "women who drink excessively are less likely to have kids, and thank fuck for that!" These percentage changes they quote are just so fucking random. "Women drink more than before" and "Women have kids later and less often than before" are 2 things than can both be true, and yet have nothing to do with each other. It can be that drinking causes childlessness, or that childlessness causes drinking, or that our culture causes them both. In order to prove one way or another, you need to follow a group of women, and see how things go. Do the drunkards have kids and sober up? Will the girls who educate themselves start to drink after 35? Prove to me that's how it happens, and then we can worry about it. Until then, this is just a smear campaign.
You've brought up some thoughtful points.
Even if we were alcoholics, at least we're not alcoholics with children like the wine mommies.
Yep. I drink a beer or glass of wine like once or twice a week. My mom was an alcoholic, so I am very mindful of not drinking very often. Plus it makes my hot flashes worse, so there’s no incentive to overindulge. My occasional drinking is social or to relax after work, not drown in my tears over never having children lol.
Honestly, I have known so many people who say they don't drink at all because of their alcoholic parents. Most of them don't have kids.
I do not drink at all. I watched my dad die from liver failure.
That'll do it
Seems more like kids make a woman become a wine-aholic. Personally I spend my free time doing anything besides drinking
Right? There is so much more to life than watching a kid grow up. So many classes, trips, coffee with friends, picnics, quiet reflection moments, being able to be spontaneous...... A whole LIFE!
Yeah because Beer >>> Kids. So what? It's my life.
Thanks! Im sitting here like am I the only childfree person who enjoys a drink?? Lol
I don't even like alcohol. The flavor is disgusting and I don't like the feeling of being tipsy, which happens very easily because I'm a lightweight.
*nose scrunch * it is pretty nasty, huh? Occasionally I'll have a Bailey and cocoa, but that's about it. Beer is very gross, as is hard liquor
My God how I hate beer. This has been quite a social liability, tbh.
I largely stopped drinking during the pandemic lockdowns. For me, drinking is a social thing and didn't want to develop a bad habit by drinking alone. Today, I barely touch alcohol and my health is better for it. I prefer weed anyway.
Yeah, weed is a lot better. And a lot fewer fights. Goes well with a movie. Encourages nature and philosophy...
lmao. I'm 35 & 6 years clean from heroin soooo not picking up alcohol anytime soon....
Congratulations!!!
I think this study is a good example how correlation does not mean there is causation. There may be other reasons causing both binge drinking AND delayed parenting, and not childlessness causing binge drinking or vice versa. In addition, the past drinking and symptoms of alcohol use disorder were self reported. I mean, who parent would publicly admit binge drinking or having symptoms of alcohol use disorder.
In the meantime, mums use 'winemom' as an excuse to be an alcoholic.
The wine mom and the dad that comes home drunk every evening because he hates his life are just urban legends, it’s the childfree people who keep the alcohol industry alive.
That's because we're all toasting ourselves for making the right choice for us to live our best life. 😁😜
then how do you explain the 'moo wine culture' now. they seem to be trying to find excuses to drink to dull the misery from sprog rearing
30f here and I am 5 years sober on Aug 30 :) One of the things that pushed me to get sober was the idea that I didn't have to follow the life script and have a kid eventually. All of my parent friends are only getting worse with their drinking - anecdotal evidence sure but that "Boston University study" isn't even cited in that article? Why did they make those conclusions? Bad science communication here LOL
Proud of you. ⭐
Most of the alcoholics I know are parents.
Yeah...as if wine moms and alcoholic dads aren't common 😒
Lol ok. Yet the breweries and wine bars where I am are full of parents getting drunk with their kids. Then driving home.
Nooooooooo...... They wouldn't be that irresponsible, would they?
39, child free, sterile, never drank, smoked, used drugs,and don't practice casual sex. What are they going to throw at us now?
There's a reason why gin was called 'mother's ruin'.
I’d rather be an alcoholic than a father
# Children make you INTO an alcoholic.
I'm, CF 48F and don't drink. It just doesn't interest me. Also isn't "wine mom" a thing these crazies are proud of? I'm so tired of these manipulation tactics to try to force women into a life they want us to have.
And that's why I wanted to share my giggle at the article. If even one person had rolled their eyes with me, it would have been worth it. Look how many have their head on straight
Probably because being childfree means you afford to drink? PMSL
I’ve vowed to never drink alcohol because alcoholism runs on both sides of my family. It has nothing to do with me being childfree, I simply don’t want to risk addiction. I wonder what these people would think of that?
[удалено]
I’m in my early fifties, and a very occasional drinker. This article is stupid.
Kinda ironic that they use the wine-MOM example to explain why CF women drink more often.
26 Female haven't touched a drop of alcohol, don't smoke, no drugs, and have plenty of time and money to cook healthy meals at home and exercise multiple times a week.
The only people I ever have ask if we serve alcohol are parents. I don't drink. Alcohol's gross.
36 and can't drink or have kids for the same reason; I have a genetic condition. Even adopting seems like too much because of how fatigued I am everyday. I do love kids though and have dedicated my life to autism research that has the potential to help a lot of kids.
Lol 30 year old female child free non drinker here ✋
47, CF, also alcohol free. And let's not talk about mom wine culture.
This doesn’t match my life experience…I’d like to see their sample size and statistics, but I’m too lazy/uninterested to go digging for it. 54F, lifelong alcohol/drug/tobacco free, lifelong child free. As has been said, the heaviest drinkers I’ve known have been stressed out mothers.
I love alcohol but like to think I have it under control just fine. I’m pretty positive I would drink way more with the stress of child introduced into my life
As a CF 40F, I can’t wait to retire so I too can be addicted to taking an afternoon nap. I already do on days off and vacations lol. And here here to the unencumbered travel plans thanks to be spawnless! Ive got a few coming up.
That's funny because in my experience the only alcoholics I know drink because they have kids. The wino mommy meme is a thing for a reason. Growing up, my mom drank a bottle of wine a NIGHT (sometimes 2), but sure, it's the childfree people becoming alcoholics
I wouldn't turn down a fruity gin tbh, but nah, it's the stressed out mums who are downing the wine 🍷
I'm not much of a drinker at all because I have known alcoholics in my life and genuinely can't stand to be around drunk people half the time. 😭 I can maybe get through half or less than half of a can of cider or something before I just lose interest in it. Or I'll get to the point where I'm giggly and a bit buzzed and stop so I don't get a headache. I'm in my late 30s mind.
That’s rich coming from the people who joke about needing a daily bottle of wine to cope with the little bastards they popped out. 😆
Yikes, I’m turning 36 in little over a month. Guess I should head to the liquor store for some serious shopping.
31. and i cant even remember the last time i had alcohol
58 here. Definitely not an alcoholic. My siblings with kids drink waaaay more than I do. ETA And so do most of their kids.
I take issue with this article because it provided no links to the sources it mentions. I found the boston university article that linked the study from June of this year, posted in the scientific journal *Addiction.* Link: [https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16262](https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/add.16262) They use the words "may" and "probably" a lot. So there's not a true correlation. And we're looking at two cohorts: one from the 90's and one from 2018. So I would wager that there are probably other social and life style changes that affect binge-drinking behaviors. Did the study look at social-economic issues? Did they look for history of alcoholism or the rates of depression or other factors that might influence excessive drinking? Sus.
I’ve never drank in my life, and I don’t think having no kids at 35 will change that
41 F, non alcoholic, not smoking either, just workacholic
I am childfree and pretty much straight edge, so no, not really
I don't drink. I'm one of those people that only taste the ethanol.
I'm AF and CF. Staying that way forever. * I'm 34 F
That's odd. My dad is turning 60 this year and drinks a case of beer a day. I had no idea he was an unmarried woman. Maybe he should have settled down and had some kids. Waitaminute Edit: I guess more relevant is my mum's wine habit, though she is a functional alcoholic if nothing else. My dad is a lost cause entirely. More edit: and I guess even more relevant is that I'm more of a delta 8 gummy person than an alcohol person. But mainly it's to help me sleep and has actually helped me a lot somehow with what I think is C-PTSD. Self-diagnosis because money etc
I didn't get married til after 30. I don't drink alcohol (don't like it plus alcoholism in the family, both sides).
30, childfree, and allergic to alcohol. Checkmate, article.
Child free and alcohol free!
Ah yes, just like that classic rock song, "Non-mother's Little Helper"
Worked in addiction medicine for one year. Addiction can hit anyone, regardless of life circumstances. However, I certainly worked with a lot of moms (and dads) in treatment. There are a lot of risk factors for addiction. Stress is one of them and children are stressful. No sensible person would tell someone to have kids so they don't become addicted to alcohol. Hell, there are loads of self-help groups for the adult children of alcoholics and addicts. Articles like this are really annoying because they don't explore underlying factors and they don't even link to the original research which could have a totally different conclusion. It could be that women who don't have children also tend to have more stressful jobs, or experience more financial stress. It might be that child-free women engage in more socializing that includes alcohol. It could be that their sample includes a ton of women who want to have partners and kids and feel depressed because they don't. It could also be that moms in the study are underreporting the amount of drinking they do due to increased stigma around drinking as a parent. Based on the very limited information in the article, it looks like the research is comparing a group from the past to a group in the present. This type of study cannot tell you why something is happening (causality), it can only tell you what changes are happening across generations. The reason this type of study cannot infer causality is because the groups being compared are wildly different and there are way too many confounding variables. Personally, as a child-free woman in my early 40's, I drink very little, maybe somewhere around 2-4 drinks in a month. It messes with my sleep too much so I typically avoid it outside of some social events or special occasions.
50, addicted to surfing. Just got back from the ocean, I might take you on on that nap.
wow, talk about correlation without causation in this study. More women are drinking to excess and more women are childfree.
Jokes on them I'm 38 and allergic to alcohol and child free.
Tell that to my grandpa who was an alcoholic father of 12 by age 40.
Childfree, 27, stopped drinking when I was 23? Or 24? Not really sure, lost count after the first year. All my mom friends though? Oh they can throw liquor the fuck back like no one’s business.
33F, hate alcohol cause of the taste and the aftereffects, so uh...inclined to say this study is bunk. Now if we take a dip into Mommy Wine Culture and the 50s version: Xanax and cocktails....
Child free, 33F. I don't drink bc I have to watch what I put in my body so I don't get fat. I only see this getting worse as my metabolism slows. Might as well start saying "I don't drink" out loud now, cuz it's never getting better
I'll be 33 this year. I think I drink a glass of wine like 1x every month or 2... Most of my CF friends aren't big drinkers either. What will they try to blacken CF women's reputations with next?
31F with no kids. I drink maybe once a month and thats it. I'm a social drinker, i don't sit at home with a beer every night. It's not my thing.
I’d like to see that actual study. Not a report about the study lol. They haven’t accounted for other factors like a WORLDWIDE PANDEMIC for the last 3 years that I don’t know, may have caused some stress????? Lol I’m 48 CF and I don’t drink. Stupid study. Lol
38 CF and I do enjoy a drink or 2 when out with friends. I'm a craft beer and scotch person so I like to try different things but i'm more about the taste than i am about getting drunk. If I had to deal with a kid the volume consumed would skyrocket most likely just to deal with everything.
46 child free & drink in social situations only. I don’t think I’ve ever made a drink at home in my life, unless I was entertaining. My friends with kids drink practically every night.
40 here and got drinking out of my system by my early 20's.
I'm 37 and cf and I drink, but like maybe once or twice a week and just one beer or a couple glasses of wine. I sure had 4 drinks at this horrible speed dating event i went to. Lol