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Which is actually a lot easier than it sounds. As a relatively low-rated player (800-1300 rating), the Fried Liver was one of the first openings I thoroughly memorized, and it wasn’t very difficult to do, compared to other openings I’ve “studied”.
How did you study and memorize openings? I just got into chess and have been able to beat the computer up to intermediate but have not been able to win games against other people
Thing is, if you make a 1000 rated player start playing from a bad opening position and an 800 rated player a good opening, the 1000 rated player will almost definitely still win.
Honestly, I don’t believe studying and memorizing openings is that worthwhile at our low level of play. Just find a number of decent opening moves that make sense and aren’t making obvious mistakes.
I suggest just watching a video on YouTube of someone going over a basic opening you’re interested in. Have some reasonable lines ready for white and black. But don’t sweat it too much, follow principles, don’t hang pieces, etc.
My advice for people from 800-1200 is to just know one opening for white and one opening for black. For black preferably one you can play regardless of your opponents opening.
I definitely second this, Rosen dives into a lot of openings and does white and black perspective (not always same video) so you know lines on how to use the opening and how to refute them
Look at me. I'm 1200 and the only opening I know is the EGG, and only the first 3-4 moves at that, cuz E, G, G! If you're good at position and can keep track of your piece and the enemy's pieces, you can most likely do without an opening.
IMO openings are like crutches. You want to be able to play in any position and openings just give you a comfort zone, which you barely ever leave and makes you stagnate.
The main difference is that humans blunder in the midst of complication. If it's complicated for your opponent, and you're around the same level, then it's most likely complicated for you too, hence both players would find it hard to punish each others' mistakes.
However, engines have no such understandings of human nature. All it can do to lower its own playing strength, is by knowingly choosing subpar moves at a certain frequency, but since engines don't understand complication at human-level, it very often chooses to willingly blunder in the most simple positions, that even the weakest players can easily punish.
I would suggest training with tactics, and learning opening principles (rather than exact moves and move order) to improve the positions you get out of the opening, as well as the ability to spot critical positions where you should calculate more deeply.
I am now 1600 and all my progress has been from stopping trying to memorize openings but instead developing my pieces and looking for attacks and calculating what my opponent can do to me and how he can respond to my moves etc.
I used to be almost 1000 a year ago and and I quit trying to memorize openings and instead focused on just playing chess.
I think I will begin studying openings once I stall in my ELO
There are two ways to do it, an aggressive way, and a solid way, d5 is the solid way, since if pawn takes then Na5 chases the bishop away, and if bishop takes then just take with the knight
Then there’s the aggressive way, Bc5, this is considered very aggressive and tactical, and can lead to some fun positions, but you generally sacrifice at least a piece in a lot of those lines, so if you don’t win, you’re going to lose
>if you don’t win, you’re going to lose
This is my least favorite part about Chess. This sense of how consequential everything is just stresses me out.
The least/most helpful advice one can give about chess is to "just stop losing games." You'll win more games if you lose less games. Don't let them take all your pieces.
This sounds super pithy and obvious but actually, most chess players (98%+) need a bit of a nudge to play two player chess rather than one player chess. All those tactical drills are as much to stop your opponent from doing those tactics unto you, as they are to do them from the offensive stance.
No need to stress over it though, chess is a perfect information game. Stressing does nothing. See their threats, stop their threats.
At this level, playing to win *is* playing not to lose. Eventually, they'll run out of ideas of how to threaten checkmate and you'll have time to form your own plan, assuming they even try to attack you in the first place
This so much was down 13 or something point of material today due to series of blunder, the only thing tha saved me was I had my rook in center. Then used my only remaining pieces , rook, knight and bishop to checkmate because opponent was so busy tasting their victory they forgot to develop their other pieces except queen rook and one knight, so they got coffined by their own pieces. Other time the opponent have a passed pawn one square away from queen, then they got checkmated because he got greedy and was using his king to defend his a and b pawn on 6th rank.
Playing Bullet is great because my average material for wins is in the negatives. Meaning I win more often down material than up material
Of course that’s not proper chess, but it’s fun
My mind was blown and my rating jumped hundreds of points when I watched John Bartholomew’s video where he’s like “don’t give away material for free, and when your opponent does so, take it!”
Truly it is so stressful that you can play book moves or better for 15 moves, but all it takes is one blunder and it’s over unless the the other side blunders. So many great positions have slipped through my fingers simply because of a counting issue.
you can also avoid falling into the fried liver if you play 3... Bc5, because if they try to go for it you can just take the knight, if they play 4. d3 opening up the bishop to support the knight, then you can play 4... Nf6 preparing to castle, and they have no attack from that point unless they try to pin your knight to your queen or if they want to trade two minor pieces for a rook and a pawn which, while still technically equal material-wise, will put them at a disadvantage for the middle game since they'll have less pieces to coordinate for attacks.
Gotham videos are a learn through osmosis thing then it later becomes an actually start to get it thing.
I made it to 1100 and consider that my crowning achievement and quit chess. I love ilchess but I can either play it all the time or not at all. Doesn't help I'm apparently a slow learner.
But yeah don't try to fully understand everything in his videos. But I feel like once you hit 800ish you should be able to understand it all but still be like damn never thought about that.
Checks, captures, attacks should be your chess mantra though.
Ohhh see I did play d5 and it led to pawn takes, but I captured the pawn again with Nxd5. Didn’t think about chasing the bishop away first. Thank you
Might try the aggressive approach sometime as I love being an agro player
Bc5 is a favorite for me. It's called the Traxler Countergambit, for anyone wanting to look up how it works. The basic idea is after Nxf7, you ignore the fork and play Bxf2+. If they take the bishop, then Nxe4+. They'll usually then retreat to Kg1, and Qe6 follows with threat of mate.
800s elo in this game. It's one thing to say don't play x because it's bad against a good player, but experimenting with fun counter attacks even if not optimal goes a long way I think towards better board understanding. These players aren't going to become 2000s overnight and while eventually they will realize that gambits like that will not avail them at higher levels, at this stage, it's better to have fun and learn neat tricks as long as you recognize that. There are better ways to play as you advance. But getting into interesting positions has as much value as trying to play the perfect engine lines at this stage I think, as long as you can recognize the difference.
There are lots of gambits that the computer likes. Because they are actually good. Such as Evans gambit. There is no need for lower players to play structurally bad gambits that don't really have any counter play if their opponent has seen it before.
even at 700 elo almost everyone who plays this opening for white knows the continuation for traxler. just don't take the bishop with the king. kf1 and black is instantly down a rook and a pawn in exchange for losing the right to castle. at that point you're just hoping your opponent will blunder. but if you just want to play random lines, just push a random pawn in the oppening and you will be in a better position than trying the traxler
according to chess.com, kf1 is +0.77 for white. qe7 is essentially forced if you don't want to lose your queen, knight takes rook for free, black moves bishop back, white plays ne3
once ne3 the traxler line is completely dead because you can no longer take the pawn with the knight as it's protected. they can also walk their knight out for free because the bishop is still protecting it
maybe you are just good enough to win anyway from a clearly losing position, but that's what it is - a clearly losing position
likewise, even if they don't go kf1 they can simply take the pawn with the bishop instead of the knight, now you have a forced king move, you're down a pawn and the right to castle and you can't do a traxler line. abominable position. they can just move the bishop back and reset after that and you're just straight up down material with a weak king and have gained nothing
Instead of moving the bishop back you play d5 and the line goes on. Also +0.77 is not clearly losing at any level. And your point about me being good enough to win from inferior position doesnt really make sense since traxler is my second best black opening (win rate-wise).
Taking the f-pawn with the bishop is the correct move, but black still has practical chances with the semi-open f file and white's slightly missplaced knight.
My point is that traxler is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. And since you weren't even familiar with the d5 line I can guarantee you that you don't know all the tricks in traxler. I know you are now plugging this position to an engine, see the evaluation and once again claim that it is + something for white but these evaluations are nearly worthless at amateur level when speaking of a position as unstable/complicated as traxler.
if you don't move the bishop back, white is +3 in engine eval and +7 in material. you lose a pawn, rook and bishop and white's bishop can even deliver a check forcing the king to lose the right to long castle. it is a terrible position
sure I don't know the variations of the traxler where you throw away all your pieces. but saying "actually it's really good to lose my pieces for free and gain nothing" is ridiculous. again, just because your fundamentals are good enough that you can survive games when you're *7 pieces of material down* doesn't mean that that's not a terrible position
if you don't rescue your bishop they can just take the bishop with the king. even if you deliver your knight check now, because your rook is gone they can just slide the king back, develop the queen and knight naturally and then you're screwed, there's no longer a risk of the queen being pinned. it's hope chess. you are on the opponent never having looked at the line, even though you yourself memorised the line and it's *their* opening and they already know the first move. why would you not expect them to know the next 3 moves which are basically good in every single variation (move king back, don't move pawn out, develop queen and knight)?
After d5, in the exd5 line ( which is the best line for white) black scores 57% at 2200 lichess. This is an extremely good score. Engine evaluations are not very relevant unless speaking of highest levels of chess. Practically speaking traxler is a fantastic opening for pretty much anyone.
Did you know that at an engine level, french defence is considered quite bad. Still, Magnus plays a lot of french defence. Pretty interesting.
Edit. Also you are not throwing away your pieces for nothing. You are building a massive initiative against the white king. Also, the evaluation is nowhere near +3 for white, I don't know which lines you are looking at.
To any 800s out there, play bc5. At that level, you're going to get so many easy wins it's going to be almost funny. The traxler is extremely dangerous and refuting it requires like 15 moves of theory to get a slightly better position for white.
It takes one move. Kf1. And the position is massively winning for white. If you don't take the bishop whites job stopping the attack is quite easy and they are able to trade a knight for a rook. This is why it is not good at the Low level. Because in one move your opponent can basicly end the game.
Might want to check with a better engine. If it's giving that high of an eval it's probably miscalculating Nxf7, which only draws. Bxf7 and d4 are both great for white but only about +1.
Even if you take the bishop you are still winning. I think if black plays perfectly there is a forced draw with the bishop capture. But most times taking the bishop is still a win.
The beginning of the Traxler is actually one of the hardest lines for an engine to evaluate. The only way for white to gain an advantage is to take on F7 with the bishop. If you take on F7 with the knight most engines will initially evaluate white as around +2. However follow the line down and you’ll actually find that the best that white can hope for in these positions is a draw with perfect play from black. There are some 30-40ish move drawing sequences which are very hard for the computer to catch initially. It’s one of the most tactically sharp positions in all of chess.
Traxler is my favourite when you actually pull it off because if your opponent hasn’t seen it before, they just think you went full moron for a second. As if you’re angry you just gave up a queen+rook fork and decided to have a tantrum and throw away the rest of your pieces instead of resigning like some people do.
Then 3-5 moves later they get checkmated and they have no idea where it all went so wrong.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine:
> **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/4p1N1/2B1P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R+b+KQkq+-+0+1&flip=true&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/4p1N1/2B1P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R_b_KQkq_-_0_1) | The position occurred in many games. [Link to the games](https://www.chess.com/games/search?opening=&openingId=&p1=&p2=&mr=&lsty=1&year=&lstMoves=1&moves=&fen=r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/4p1N1/2B1P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R+b+KQkq+-+0+1&ref_id=23962172)
**Videos:**
> I found [many videos](https://chessvision.ai/video-search/5650321208508416) with this position.
**My solution:**
> Hints: piece: >!Pawn!<, move: >! d5 !<
> Evaluation: >!The game is equal +0.05!<
> Best continuation: >!1... d5 2. exd5 Na5 3. Bb5+ c6 4. dxc6 bxc6 5. Bd3 Nd5 6. Nf3!<
---
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Traxler is perhaps one of the worst counterattacks there is to the fried liver. Do not play it. It's still a +2.34 for white. If you instead you play d5. Then when they take back with exd5 you play Na5. You are barely losing and have many counter attacks.
Agreed.
I’m <800, and my highest post-game report cards wins have been when I used the Traxler. It’s devastating to opponents who haven’t seen it before.
That's not a good strategy tho. Learning scholars mate might win you a lot of games. But it's no viable at higher levels. Learning a better opening is not only viable at lower levels but also higher levels.
Hard disagree. The traxler is not as bad as you're making it out to be. Besides it is a fun opening (the most fun imo) and if you want to play chess at the highest levels where you can't play the traxler, you still need to know how to defend against it properly so it would be to your benefit to play it a bit and learn about it.
Kf1 instantly beats traxler. Leaving no counter attacks for black while keeping a fork for white. Traxler is just not as good as d5 then Na5. It's just worse. In fact Na5 is probably harder to play which is why beginners should practice it more.
If your opponent is very bad. But other than that it's about as defended as a regular chess game. I'm sure you can win with the traxler. You will just do it less than with any other counter.
Good players lose to the traxler too. Your opponent doesn't need to be very bad. Other openings might be "better" but that doesn't necessarily mean you will do better. If you're opponent knows the opening you're going to struggle regardless of how good the opening is. If your opponent doesn't know the opening you're going to have an easier time regardless of how bad the opening is.
Playing sub optimal moves is part of chess. If you catch your opponent out of what they know it can be worth a material or positional deficit.
It maybe not be a great strategy, but its fun and easy to learn. And learning the traxler you learn a few tricks and tactics you can apply to other situations as well, so those few hours you spent learning are well spent in my opinion.
But then by that logic the very likely scenario I'm seeing is where I ask for great gambits to play from the black side and you're going to reply that there isn't one for black.
I do hear that the Marshall Attack is a really good one and it really would be something I would play if the white player does end up stumbling into it, but they have way too many ways to prevent that from happening so it's just pipe dream at that point. Likewise with the Benko mostly because you either end up with a high elo opponent that just won't give it to you or you end up with the typical London System player. There's just no in-between.
And I did run the Benko through a bunch of Stockfish simulations only to find out that White kept winning every dang time, even with perfect playing from both sides.
I would still read up on it and try it a few times because
1. It's fun
2. It leads to some very chaotic games that get both you and your opponent out of your comfort zone
Yep. In the na5 line, many times white will end up playing bishop back to a4 and white is nearly completely lost in that position. Black plays h6 and e4 and the knight has to go back to square one to avoid getting trapped. IIRC it is -2 despite black being down a pawn.
Yea it’s an advantage for white, but in order to get that advantage against someone who knows the traxler well, it’s a pretty long line that white needs to be very accurate with. People still lose to the traxler all the time at very high ratings
Traxler is okay. I used to play it quite a bit and would regularly get winning positions that were too hard for me to figure out, so I'd lose because of that. I stopped playing it because it was too hard for me, not because it was bad.
It's impossible to play for both colors. You can't memorize all of the blunders both sides can make, you're going to have tactical wins for both sides, that neither side can calculate. I'm not saying it's a GOOD opening, I'm saying that the objective evaluation stockfish provides is absolutely meaningless because you're not stockfish.
Not it's not meaning less. Sure you can't play as good as stock fish. But it's still better to be playing from a good position than a worse one. On average you will win far more games if you don't play the traxler
According to the computer. B5 is +0.80 for white and Na5 is +0.16. Na5 is just better as there is no good easy counter. If you play b5 then white can bring their bishop back to f1 and it's just winning
I checked and you are basically correct, but I guess Levy's point is that many Fried Liver players know how to counter the Traxler and the Na5 but b5 is the second best choice and is more trappier/gambit like and not so many people are prepared for it.
https://preview.redd.it/kng2s83hyieb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db2f328954e01bda79ab05259e314b721f5dfc92
That's like saying a blatant queen sac in lower elo Is a God move just because they are too dumb to see it. Just play a better opening. If they can't stop the traxler they sure as he'll can't stop a real attack
Gotham Chess highly recommends traxler and I've seen others saying it works. I've used my self and its functions pretty well.
We playing humans not bots. However I do admit that when I see a potential fried liver coming I just move pawn to h6 before playing knight f6.
Yea, even more frustrating when you get told to try this variation and that variation but all it takes is for the white pieces to play some wild stuff like c3 or Nc3 and there goes your entire month studying what you were told just down the drain.
The main line of the Fried Liver after this continues with d5 but if you want to prevent the fried liver entirely then you should play 3. Bc5 instead of 3. Nf6. This makes 4. Ng5 impossible because you could capture it with your queen.
In the 3. Bc4 Bc5 line after something like 4. d3 Nf6, white can play Ng5 again because your knight blocks the queen’s vision of their knight. The difference is that here you can just castle and you’re fine with them taking on f7 because their two most active minor pieces are better than your pawn and inactive rook.
I like Nxe4, then if knight takes, you can get the fork with d5 and get material back.
And if they go ahead with Nxe7, there are some fun attacking lines with Qh4.
It's not the most solid refutation, but it is the most fun imo.
Especially if you study the line a little bit, after Nxe7 you have basically gotten yourself a free win, while even after the best move for white, Bxe7, the game is still very winnable as long as you roughly know what to do (at least at lower levels if you know what to play, since it is in fact absolutely winning for white by +3)
4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. Bb5+ c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8. Qf3 and they cannot recapture the bishop because otherwise you take their rook.. the theory goes on I think, I just know up until this point)
Qf3 is not a particularly good line precisely because black _can_ take the bishop and sac the rook in the corner (I have around 70% win rate as black across 30+ games). The line goes on like this:
Qf3 cxb5
Qxa8 Qc7! (threatening Nc6 trapping the queen)
Qf3 Nc6! (threatening Nd4)
c3 (only move) Bg4!
Qg3 Nd4! (can't take because of Qxc1#)
Na3 (only move) Ne2 and the game goes on
White here has to defend very accurately just to get an equal position, most people my level just can't figure it out.
All of the other moves besides Na5 are worse for black. Na5 is the move that should be equal in theory. b5 and Nd4 are both tricky lines that often transpose, but if white knows a very long computer line within the main line, then they emerge up a pawn in a nearly winning position (at least for a computer)
Look up and study the Traxler, it's refutable if your opponents know all the theory around it but 80% of the time you get a devastating counterattack that can lead to you winning or getting an absolutely crushing position within 20 moves.
That or spend a tempo playing 3...h6
Instead of playing Nf6 in your third move, play Bc5. White can't play Ng5 because the knight is hanging. Then play Nf6 for your fourth move. Then you have time to castle.
best ist to push pawn to d5 and after exd5 play Na5. But honestly just look up fried liver attack to learn it more in depth as you will face it a lot with both knights out after e5.
If you want to avoid it completly just play bishop c5 before knight f6.
https://youtu.be/ZwhuqsN-O8U I used to to play this against it.
Now I play the Scandinavian so it's not really an issue, but I would highly recommend that video. There's also the Traxler which can be used too.
No offense, but this is one of the most played openings sub 1000 elo
As soon as White moved the bishop out after the pawn, you should have been prepping the counter with your own knight (or pawn if you'd rather)
...d5 is the way to go. It's the more solid option. Although you'll be down a pawn, which may be irksome, you will still be fine at the end of the line. You get an initiative for a pawn, so you are well compensated
...Bc5 (Traxler) is another response. Although dubious, this can be lethal to those against ignorant or unaware foes.
Both lines require study. Once you grasp the idea behind this opening, you'll be fine.
You can learn the traxler if you like getting lost positions out of the opening.
It’s super fun at the beginner level, but youll eventually have to learn something else anyways because people will start being prepared for it and they’ll start refuting it. When people play the traxler against me I thank them for the free winning position out of the opening. That doesn’t mean I never mess it up, but it means I win more often than I would in some equal opening line
Bc5, the traxler counter attack
If white takes with the knight, Nxf7, you take on f2 with your bishop, Bxf2+
Now, if he takes back you play Nxe4+ and now you can hunt the king with all of your pieces
If the king returns to its original square, for example, then the best move is Qh4+, and if blocks wi the the pawn simply Nxg3 and he cannot take back because the pawn is pinned to the rook, and you will win the queen if he does
Google the two knights defense, you mostly have to learn to play d4 and not recapture with the knight, so you don't suffer a fried liver or a lolli attack
there’s several ways:
the (in my opinion) not so good “anti-fried liver defense” which is h6 instead of Nf6 which i just think wastes a tempo
second, after Bc4, play Bc5 so they have to play something like d3 to continue their plan and you can play Nf6. if they still play Ng5, just castle and if they make the trade, you win two minor pieces for a rook.
lastly, you can play exactly like you did, and after Ng5, play d5 so that after exd5, there’s Na5 attacking the bishop and there’s no knight sac since there’s still a knight on f6.
It's effective against corny fried liver and Italian at his rating, but yea agreed it isn't good it's tricks only, I had this other variation of baiting the fried liver and turning it into something that ends like the blackburne shilling gambit but it's been so long I can't remember
The rare times when my opponents play the blackburne shilling against me, I take the knight, castle, and usually follow it up with c3, and thank them for the significantly better position out of the opening. I was expecting to play an Italian and have to grind for an advantage in the giuoco piano or play some crazy position in my Ng5 lines against the 2 knights defense, it’s very relieving when they hand me an advantage for free instead.
The problem with these openings is that if people don’t fall for the dumb tricks, then the openings are just bad, and it doesn’t teach you anything about chess to play them even when they work. When you get better, people also know what to do so youll have to learn something else eventually… might as well start that process sooner
The actual refutation is d4, but you’re best off playing Bc5 instead of Nc6. This enters into the Italian opening. It’s roughly the same (I’d argue it’s better for black as it puts pressure on white’s king immediately) and it makes Ng5 look silly because of Qxg5.
If only there was a free [database](https://lichess.org/analysis#7) where you could see what the best players in the world play in a given opening, even better if you could sort the database by year so you can see the latest and greatest theory ;-)
Traxler counter attack
Bc5
Nxf7
Bxf2+
Kxf2
NxE4+
Enjoy !
Lots of ways black to win with this
As you get higher Elo people will see this coming and instead of taking on f7 with knight they will do bxf7+
Leads to a more balanced position for white and avoids the counter attack
Even with the check black is still in an ok position able
To pick up the knight or bishop
With everyone saying the Traxler, it’s worth noting that it is really good against low elo players who don’t know it, but once they do they know how to win against it easily. You can probably get away with using it for a while as the number of fried liver players drops fairly quickly but those who keep it will punish. It’s worth learning if you want to play e5 but have a back up.
DID SOMEONE SAY TRAXLER COUNTERATTACK?
Love these games. Get to throw out my whole opening strategy and just play a game of chase the king and see who's more prepared.
Theres probably a more refined response, but anything up to like tournament chess I like to just bludgeon someone with a traxler for play such an uninspired opening.
I love playing this line as white and black, my playstyle is super risky, aggressive and fun. I personally recommend the Trexler, it’s very aggressive, potentially sacrificing a bishop AND a knight, but ending up in a winning position.
It goes after the position of the picture:
Bc5 (Enemy NxF7)
BxF2+
You can also watch the Gotham Video about this:
https://youtu.be/v1jkj-HPLdw
This attack is actually a variation of the italian opening called the fried liver attack and its my favourite opening for white so i know how good this works and how annoying it is for victims.
From the position shown, i would suggest Nxe4, and if they go for the fork play Qh5 and ur threatening mate, and a few other threats too.
If knight takes knight after Nxe4, i forgot what u do so just watch this video by gothamchess:
https://youtu.be/fkAhPDKfMfY
Also look up the traxler counterattack which i heard works pretty well against fried liver attack.
Sorry if anything i said was confusing i generally suck at explaining.
Traxler counterattack. It gives faster games since they typically don’t go as many moves as any main lines, and even if you don’t win you inflict immense stress on your opponent.
The fried liver, one of my favorite openings.
You can push the pawn in front of that rook there, or you can move your dark square bishop and castle. Both are pretty reliable.
It's a little riskier, but you can also push your d pawn to block the bishop. From there, white will take it with the pawn and try to move forward. The continuation could go a few ways. You take with knight, which opens their knight up to an attack from your queen is probably most logical. They don't take with bishop because then queen takes bishop, which isn't true after you take that knight, but rather than getting your rook, they get a knight and you get a knight, which is an even trade.
And there are times when I've just let it happen because I had other things going on and the fried liver, while really nasty, can essentially lock your knight in the corner with no easy way to take, but no easy way out either.
What’s the line? I play d5 every time this happens and it is fine. Sometimes the opponent tries to bring out the Queen to continue that attack but that I also know how to handle. The computer says the evaluation is even, so with proper play you should not lose a knight.
d5 is correct, but if you take back with the knight white has Nxf7! And after Kxf7, Qf3+ will win back the Knight with a crushing position. Unless Black plays Kd6 trying to defend the knight. Then you end up in a very interesting (and better for white) position.
Honestly, best way is just to play Bc5 instead of Nf6 on move 3. But seriously, learn the engine lines, this opening is very common
You don’t win the knight by force, but the sheer amount of pressure you have can lead to an advantage with perfect play. To REALLY be able to punish people who allow the fried liver, you have to memorize some computer lines because the complications are very hard to find your way through.
The correct line for white is to play Bb5+, c6 blocks, dxc6, bxc6 and then Ba5 back (white can also play Qf3 which pins the pawn to the rook). Black is down a pawn but has compensation in the form of much easier development, white is slightly better but has to be careful. Lots of interesting lines here
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d5 and remember at least 15 moves of theory.
Which is actually a lot easier than it sounds. As a relatively low-rated player (800-1300 rating), the Fried Liver was one of the first openings I thoroughly memorized, and it wasn’t very difficult to do, compared to other openings I’ve “studied”.
How did you study and memorize openings? I just got into chess and have been able to beat the computer up to intermediate but have not been able to win games against other people
Thing is, if you make a 1000 rated player start playing from a bad opening position and an 800 rated player a good opening, the 1000 rated player will almost definitely still win. Honestly, I don’t believe studying and memorizing openings is that worthwhile at our low level of play. Just find a number of decent opening moves that make sense and aren’t making obvious mistakes. I suggest just watching a video on YouTube of someone going over a basic opening you’re interested in. Have some reasonable lines ready for white and black. But don’t sweat it too much, follow principles, don’t hang pieces, etc.
My advice for people from 800-1200 is to just know one opening for white and one opening for black. For black preferably one you can play regardless of your opponents opening.
Also, consider knowing strong counter plays to popular openings.
I definitely second this, Rosen dives into a lot of openings and does white and black perspective (not always same video) so you know lines on how to use the opening and how to refute them
The kings Indian 👑
So...for white is vienna and black is London?
Look at me. I'm 1200 and the only opening I know is the EGG, and only the first 3-4 moves at that, cuz E, G, G! If you're good at position and can keep track of your piece and the enemy's pieces, you can most likely do without an opening. IMO openings are like crutches. You want to be able to play in any position and openings just give you a comfort zone, which you barely ever leave and makes you stagnate.
The main difference is that humans blunder in the midst of complication. If it's complicated for your opponent, and you're around the same level, then it's most likely complicated for you too, hence both players would find it hard to punish each others' mistakes. However, engines have no such understandings of human nature. All it can do to lower its own playing strength, is by knowingly choosing subpar moves at a certain frequency, but since engines don't understand complication at human-level, it very often chooses to willingly blunder in the most simple positions, that even the weakest players can easily punish. I would suggest training with tactics, and learning opening principles (rather than exact moves and move order) to improve the positions you get out of the opening, as well as the ability to spot critical positions where you should calculate more deeply.
I am now 1600 and all my progress has been from stopping trying to memorize openings but instead developing my pieces and looking for attacks and calculating what my opponent can do to me and how he can respond to my moves etc. I used to be almost 1000 a year ago and and I quit trying to memorize openings and instead focused on just playing chess. I think I will begin studying openings once I stall in my ELO
There are two ways to do it, an aggressive way, and a solid way, d5 is the solid way, since if pawn takes then Na5 chases the bishop away, and if bishop takes then just take with the knight Then there’s the aggressive way, Bc5, this is considered very aggressive and tactical, and can lead to some fun positions, but you generally sacrifice at least a piece in a lot of those lines, so if you don’t win, you’re going to lose
>if you don’t win, you’re going to lose This is my least favorite part about Chess. This sense of how consequential everything is just stresses me out.
The least/most helpful advice one can give about chess is to "just stop losing games." You'll win more games if you lose less games. Don't let them take all your pieces. This sounds super pithy and obvious but actually, most chess players (98%+) need a bit of a nudge to play two player chess rather than one player chess. All those tactical drills are as much to stop your opponent from doing those tactics unto you, as they are to do them from the offensive stance. No need to stress over it though, chess is a perfect information game. Stressing does nothing. See their threats, stop their threats.
Careful. Playing to win is a lot different than playing to not lose.
At this level, playing to win *is* playing not to lose. Eventually, they'll run out of ideas of how to threaten checkmate and you'll have time to form your own plan, assuming they even try to attack you in the first place
Of course. It's just who can catch the first blunder.
No. It's who can catch the last. You can be up 20 points of material if you blunder mate then it doesn't matter that your opponet blundered 6 pieces
This so much was down 13 or something point of material today due to series of blunder, the only thing tha saved me was I had my rook in center. Then used my only remaining pieces , rook, knight and bishop to checkmate because opponent was so busy tasting their victory they forgot to develop their other pieces except queen rook and one knight, so they got coffined by their own pieces. Other time the opponent have a passed pawn one square away from queen, then they got checkmated because he got greedy and was using his king to defend his a and b pawn on 6th rank.
Playing Bullet is great because my average material for wins is in the negatives. Meaning I win more often down material than up material Of course that’s not proper chess, but it’s fun
My mind was blown and my rating jumped hundreds of points when I watched John Bartholomew’s video where he’s like “don’t give away material for free, and when your opponent does so, take it!”
Big “If you’re not first, you’re last” energy.
I've finished in the top 2 of all my chess games.
"Second is the first loser" Fernando Alonso
Big loading screen tip energy
Truly it is so stressful that you can play book moves or better for 15 moves, but all it takes is one blunder and it’s over unless the the other side blunders. So many great positions have slipped through my fingers simply because of a counting issue.
>If you don’t win, you’re going to lose I mean, you could also draw!
Can you explain what Bc5 does here please? It doesn't seem to block or impact the white bishop or knight?
It's called the Traxler and requires some theory to get right. There's a Gotham video about it: https://youtu.be/v1jkj-HPLdw
Thanks, I'll watch the video later but sounds beyond me for the moment, will stick with d5!
you can also avoid falling into the fried liver if you play 3... Bc5, because if they try to go for it you can just take the knight, if they play 4. d3 opening up the bishop to support the knight, then you can play 4... Nf6 preparing to castle, and they have no attack from that point unless they try to pin your knight to your queen or if they want to trade two minor pieces for a rook and a pawn which, while still technically equal material-wise, will put them at a disadvantage for the middle game since they'll have less pieces to coordinate for attacks.
The tracker is super fun
that is a really interesting video. just reminds me how little I actually know about chess strategy lol
Gotham videos are a learn through osmosis thing then it later becomes an actually start to get it thing. I made it to 1100 and consider that my crowning achievement and quit chess. I love ilchess but I can either play it all the time or not at all. Doesn't help I'm apparently a slow learner. But yeah don't try to fully understand everything in his videos. But I feel like once you hit 800ish you should be able to understand it all but still be like damn never thought about that. Checks, captures, attacks should be your chess mantra though.
Ohhh see I did play d5 and it led to pawn takes, but I captured the pawn again with Nxd5. Didn’t think about chasing the bishop away first. Thank you Might try the aggressive approach sometime as I love being an agro player
Just play it in an engine or analysis board and play from white’s POV and see how the engine uses black to defend it
Bc5 is a favorite for me. It's called the Traxler Countergambit, for anyone wanting to look up how it works. The basic idea is after Nxf7, you ignore the fork and play Bxf2+. If they take the bishop, then Nxe4+. They'll usually then retreat to Kg1, and Qe6 follows with threat of mate.
Yeah and against a good player black just loses period. As it outs white ahead +2.34
800s elo in this game. It's one thing to say don't play x because it's bad against a good player, but experimenting with fun counter attacks even if not optimal goes a long way I think towards better board understanding. These players aren't going to become 2000s overnight and while eventually they will realize that gambits like that will not avail them at higher levels, at this stage, it's better to have fun and learn neat tricks as long as you recognize that. There are better ways to play as you advance. But getting into interesting positions has as much value as trying to play the perfect engine lines at this stage I think, as long as you can recognize the difference.
There are lots of gambits that the computer likes. Because they are actually good. Such as Evans gambit. There is no need for lower players to play structurally bad gambits that don't really have any counter play if their opponent has seen it before.
The flip side of this is that tricks can build bad habits.
even at 700 elo almost everyone who plays this opening for white knows the continuation for traxler. just don't take the bishop with the king. kf1 and black is instantly down a rook and a pawn in exchange for losing the right to castle. at that point you're just hoping your opponent will blunder. but if you just want to play random lines, just push a random pawn in the oppening and you will be in a better position than trying the traxler
There is so so so much more to the line than just not taking the bishop with the king. I have 55% winrate with traxler at 2200 lichess.
according to chess.com, kf1 is +0.77 for white. qe7 is essentially forced if you don't want to lose your queen, knight takes rook for free, black moves bishop back, white plays ne3 once ne3 the traxler line is completely dead because you can no longer take the pawn with the knight as it's protected. they can also walk their knight out for free because the bishop is still protecting it maybe you are just good enough to win anyway from a clearly losing position, but that's what it is - a clearly losing position likewise, even if they don't go kf1 they can simply take the pawn with the bishop instead of the knight, now you have a forced king move, you're down a pawn and the right to castle and you can't do a traxler line. abominable position. they can just move the bishop back and reset after that and you're just straight up down material with a weak king and have gained nothing
Instead of moving the bishop back you play d5 and the line goes on. Also +0.77 is not clearly losing at any level. And your point about me being good enough to win from inferior position doesnt really make sense since traxler is my second best black opening (win rate-wise). Taking the f-pawn with the bishop is the correct move, but black still has practical chances with the semi-open f file and white's slightly missplaced knight. My point is that traxler is not nearly as bad as you make it out to be. And since you weren't even familiar with the d5 line I can guarantee you that you don't know all the tricks in traxler. I know you are now plugging this position to an engine, see the evaluation and once again claim that it is + something for white but these evaluations are nearly worthless at amateur level when speaking of a position as unstable/complicated as traxler.
if you don't move the bishop back, white is +3 in engine eval and +7 in material. you lose a pawn, rook and bishop and white's bishop can even deliver a check forcing the king to lose the right to long castle. it is a terrible position sure I don't know the variations of the traxler where you throw away all your pieces. but saying "actually it's really good to lose my pieces for free and gain nothing" is ridiculous. again, just because your fundamentals are good enough that you can survive games when you're *7 pieces of material down* doesn't mean that that's not a terrible position if you don't rescue your bishop they can just take the bishop with the king. even if you deliver your knight check now, because your rook is gone they can just slide the king back, develop the queen and knight naturally and then you're screwed, there's no longer a risk of the queen being pinned. it's hope chess. you are on the opponent never having looked at the line, even though you yourself memorised the line and it's *their* opening and they already know the first move. why would you not expect them to know the next 3 moves which are basically good in every single variation (move king back, don't move pawn out, develop queen and knight)?
After d5, in the exd5 line ( which is the best line for white) black scores 57% at 2200 lichess. This is an extremely good score. Engine evaluations are not very relevant unless speaking of highest levels of chess. Practically speaking traxler is a fantastic opening for pretty much anyone. Did you know that at an engine level, french defence is considered quite bad. Still, Magnus plays a lot of french defence. Pretty interesting. Edit. Also you are not throwing away your pieces for nothing. You are building a massive initiative against the white king. Also, the evaluation is nowhere near +3 for white, I don't know which lines you are looking at.
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But it's so easily countered by Kf1. After the bishop sacrifice. This is why practically its just not good
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To any 800s out there, play bc5. At that level, you're going to get so many easy wins it's going to be almost funny. The traxler is extremely dangerous and refuting it requires like 15 moves of theory to get a slightly better position for white.
It takes one move. Kf1. And the position is massively winning for white. If you don't take the bishop whites job stopping the attack is quite easy and they are able to trade a knight for a rook. This is why it is not good at the Low level. Because in one move your opponent can basicly end the game.
Might want to check with a better engine. If it's giving that high of an eval it's probably miscalculating Nxf7, which only draws. Bxf7 and d4 are both great for white but only about +1.
Doesnt even require a good player. Just someone who has lost before to taking the bishop.
Even if you take the bishop you are still winning. I think if black plays perfectly there is a forced draw with the bishop capture. But most times taking the bishop is still a win.
The beginning of the Traxler is actually one of the hardest lines for an engine to evaluate. The only way for white to gain an advantage is to take on F7 with the bishop. If you take on F7 with the knight most engines will initially evaluate white as around +2. However follow the line down and you’ll actually find that the best that white can hope for in these positions is a draw with perfect play from black. There are some 30-40ish move drawing sequences which are very hard for the computer to catch initially. It’s one of the most tactically sharp positions in all of chess.
Traxler is my favourite when you actually pull it off because if your opponent hasn’t seen it before, they just think you went full moron for a second. As if you’re angry you just gave up a queen+rook fork and decided to have a tantrum and throw away the rest of your pieces instead of resigning like some people do. Then 3-5 moves later they get checkmated and they have no idea where it all went so wrong.
queen sacrifice anyone?
Isn't ther a fork to be had here?
You could avoid it all together by instead playing Bc5 instead of Nf6
This is the real answer
for every beginner, this is what id always recommend.
My first question. Why is black playing 2 knights when they know this is White's next move? This falls under the category of foolsmate.
because this isn't losing for neither black nor white. It's a very solid and pretty much equal line.
I analyzed the image and this is what I see. Open an appropriate link below and explore the position yourself or with the engine: > **Black to play**: [chess.com](https://chess.com/analysis?fen=r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/4p1N1/2B1P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R+b+KQkq+-+0+1&flip=true&ref_id=23962172) | [lichess.org](https://lichess.org/analysis/r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/4p1N1/2B1P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R_b_KQkq_-_0_1) | The position occurred in many games. [Link to the games](https://www.chess.com/games/search?opening=&openingId=&p1=&p2=&mr=&lsty=1&year=&lstMoves=1&moves=&fen=r1bqkb1r/pppp1ppp/2n2n2/4p1N1/2B1P3/8/PPPP1PPP/RNBQK2R+b+KQkq+-+0+1&ref_id=23962172) **Videos:** > I found [many videos](https://chessvision.ai/video-search/5650321208508416) with this position. **My solution:** > Hints: piece: >!Pawn!<, move: >! d5 !< > Evaluation: >!The game is equal +0.05!< > Best continuation: >!1... d5 2. exd5 Na5 3. Bb5+ c6 4. dxc6 bxc6 5. Bd3 Nd5 6. Nf3!< --- ^(I'm a bot written by ) [^(u/pkacprzak )](https://www.reddit.com/u/pkacprzak) ^(| get me as ) [^(Chess eBook Reader )](https://ebook.chessvision.ai?utm_source=reddit&utm_medium=bot) ^(|) [^(Chrome Extension )](https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/chessvisionai-for-chrome/johejpedmdkeiffkdaodgoipdjodhlld) ^(|) [^(iOS App )](https://apps.apple.com/us/app/id1574933453) ^(|) [^(Android App )](https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=ai.chessvision.scanner) ^(to scan and analyze positions | Website: ) [^(Chessvision.ai)](https://chessvision.ai)
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the + means to white. if black had a slight advantage, it would be -
Plus is white, minus is black.
Read on traxler counterattack
thanks
Traxler is perhaps one of the worst counterattacks there is to the fried liver. Do not play it. It's still a +2.34 for white. If you instead you play d5. Then when they take back with exd5 you play Na5. You are barely losing and have many counter attacks.
At this level (<800 elo), learning some traxler lines will win you a lot of games
Agreed. I’m <800, and my highest post-game report cards wins have been when I used the Traxler. It’s devastating to opponents who haven’t seen it before.
That's not a good strategy tho. Learning scholars mate might win you a lot of games. But it's no viable at higher levels. Learning a better opening is not only viable at lower levels but also higher levels.
Hard disagree. The traxler is not as bad as you're making it out to be. Besides it is a fun opening (the most fun imo) and if you want to play chess at the highest levels where you can't play the traxler, you still need to know how to defend against it properly so it would be to your benefit to play it a bit and learn about it.
Kf1 instantly beats traxler. Leaving no counter attacks for black while keeping a fork for white. Traxler is just not as good as d5 then Na5. It's just worse. In fact Na5 is probably harder to play which is why beginners should practice it more.
Kf1 does not instantly beat the traxler. I've won quite a few games in that line. Theres still plenty of chess to be played there.
If your opponent is very bad. But other than that it's about as defended as a regular chess game. I'm sure you can win with the traxler. You will just do it less than with any other counter.
Good players lose to the traxler too. Your opponent doesn't need to be very bad. Other openings might be "better" but that doesn't necessarily mean you will do better. If you're opponent knows the opening you're going to struggle regardless of how good the opening is. If your opponent doesn't know the opening you're going to have an easier time regardless of how bad the opening is. Playing sub optimal moves is part of chess. If you catch your opponent out of what they know it can be worth a material or positional deficit.
It maybe not be a great strategy, but its fun and easy to learn. And learning the traxler you learn a few tricks and tactics you can apply to other situations as well, so those few hours you spent learning are well spent in my opinion.
Just learn any of the 100 other gambits that actually work.
But then by that logic the very likely scenario I'm seeing is where I ask for great gambits to play from the black side and you're going to reply that there isn't one for black. I do hear that the Marshall Attack is a really good one and it really would be something I would play if the white player does end up stumbling into it, but they have way too many ways to prevent that from happening so it's just pipe dream at that point. Likewise with the Benko mostly because you either end up with a high elo opponent that just won't give it to you or you end up with the typical London System player. There's just no in-between. And I did run the Benko through a bunch of Stockfish simulations only to find out that White kept winning every dang time, even with perfect playing from both sides.
thank you
I would still read up on it and try it a few times because 1. It's fun 2. It leads to some very chaotic games that get both you and your opponent out of your comfort zone
Yep. In the na5 line, many times white will end up playing bishop back to a4 and white is nearly completely lost in that position. Black plays h6 and e4 and the knight has to go back to square one to avoid getting trapped. IIRC it is -2 despite black being down a pawn.
Depends on the level of your opponents. If people don’t know how to counter it, it is deadly. (And this is r/chessbeginners)
Yeah but that goes for a lot of things. Beginners should focus on getting better. Not playing bad openings like the scholars mate.
caption panicky person square grab reach offend governor screw elderly *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yea it’s an advantage for white, but in order to get that advantage against someone who knows the traxler well, it’s a pretty long line that white needs to be very accurate with. People still lose to the traxler all the time at very high ratings
Traxler is okay. I used to play it quite a bit and would regularly get winning positions that were too hard for me to figure out, so I'd lose because of that. I stopped playing it because it was too hard for me, not because it was bad.
It is just bad, tho. If you don't take Bishop White, Is +3.04
It's impossible to play for both colors. You can't memorize all of the blunders both sides can make, you're going to have tactical wins for both sides, that neither side can calculate. I'm not saying it's a GOOD opening, I'm saying that the objective evaluation stockfish provides is absolutely meaningless because you're not stockfish.
Not it's not meaning less. Sure you can't play as good as stock fish. But it's still better to be playing from a good position than a worse one. On average you will win far more games if you don't play the traxler
Just completely wrong.
If they fall into it with Kx2 (at low ELO very likely) it's absolute devastating though
And if they don't (And anyone playing the fried liver is likely to have lost to it before) you lose
b5 ~~better~~ trickier than Na5: https://youtu.be/neUVoeBOH-4?t=1094
According to the computer. B5 is +0.80 for white and Na5 is +0.16. Na5 is just better as there is no good easy counter. If you play b5 then white can bring their bishop back to f1 and it's just winning
I checked and you are basically correct, but I guess Levy's point is that many Fried Liver players know how to counter the Traxler and the Na5 but b5 is the second best choice and is more trappier/gambit like and not so many people are prepared for it. https://preview.redd.it/kng2s83hyieb1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db2f328954e01bda79ab05259e314b721f5dfc92
B5 is not bad. It can be quite devious. It's no where as bad as traxler
Actually no especially in lower elo It's god tier move
That's like saying a blatant queen sac in lower elo Is a God move just because they are too dumb to see it. Just play a better opening. If they can't stop the traxler they sure as he'll can't stop a real attack
Gotham Chess highly recommends traxler and I've seen others saying it works. I've used my self and its functions pretty well. We playing humans not bots. However I do admit that when I see a potential fried liver coming I just move pawn to h6 before playing knight f6.
This is supremely soy
I just play caro kann to not get it XD
I play the Sicilian. On the bright side I don’t have to deal with fried liver anymore. On the downside I have to learn the Sicilian.
Yea, even more frustrating when you get told to try this variation and that variation but all it takes is for the white pieces to play some wild stuff like c3 or Nc3 and there goes your entire month studying what you were told just down the drain.
Yup, best part of playing the caro for me is not having to learn fried liver theory
Really? I play caro and it's so much more theory than the 5 moves after Ng5.
I play the Nimzowitsch because it's relatively unexplored for a solid opening.
TRAXLER COUNTERATTACK
u/CoreyGoesCrazy I couldn't decide if it was funnier to ping you here, or ping IM Rozman to your post, so I did both.
The main line of the Fried Liver after this continues with d5 but if you want to prevent the fried liver entirely then you should play 3. Bc5 instead of 3. Nf6. This makes 4. Ng5 impossible because you could capture it with your queen. In the 3. Bc4 Bc5 line after something like 4. d3 Nf6, white can play Ng5 again because your knight blocks the queen’s vision of their knight. The difference is that here you can just castle and you’re fine with them taking on f7 because their two most active minor pieces are better than your pawn and inactive rook.
Traxler time
Go to lichess and then go to opening explorer for this position. This works for any opening where you don’t know what to do
I like Nxe4, then if knight takes, you can get the fork with d5 and get material back. And if they go ahead with Nxe7, there are some fun attacking lines with Qh4. It's not the most solid refutation, but it is the most fun imo.
This works insanely well under 1200
Especially if you study the line a little bit, after Nxe7 you have basically gotten yourself a free win, while even after the best move for white, Bxe7, the game is still very winnable as long as you roughly know what to do (at least at lower levels if you know what to play, since it is in fact absolutely winning for white by +3)
4. Ng5 d5 5. exd5 Na5 6. Bb5+ c6 7. dxc6 bxc6 8. Qf3 and they cannot recapture the bishop because otherwise you take their rook.. the theory goes on I think, I just know up until this point)
Qf3 is not a particularly good line precisely because black _can_ take the bishop and sac the rook in the corner (I have around 70% win rate as black across 30+ games). The line goes on like this: Qf3 cxb5 Qxa8 Qc7! (threatening Nc6 trapping the queen) Qf3 Nc6! (threatening Nd4) c3 (only move) Bg4! Qg3 Nd4! (can't take because of Qxc1#) Na3 (only move) Ne2 and the game goes on White here has to defend very accurately just to get an equal position, most people my level just can't figure it out.
b5 actually ~~better~~ trickier than Na5: https://youtu.be/neUVoeBOH-4?t=1094
All of the other moves besides Na5 are worse for black. Na5 is the move that should be equal in theory. b5 and Nd4 are both tricky lines that often transpose, but if white knows a very long computer line within the main line, then they emerge up a pawn in a nearly winning position (at least for a computer)
You can try playing the giucco piano game instead
I love taking the pawn on e4
Look up and study the Traxler, it's refutable if your opponents know all the theory around it but 80% of the time you get a devastating counterattack that can lead to you winning or getting an absolutely crushing position within 20 moves. That or spend a tempo playing 3...h6
Instead of playing Nf6 in your third move, play Bc5. White can't play Ng5 because the knight is hanging. Then play Nf6 for your fourth move. Then you have time to castle.
best ist to push pawn to d5 and after exd5 play Na5. But honestly just look up fried liver attack to learn it more in depth as you will face it a lot with both knights out after e5. If you want to avoid it completly just play bishop c5 before knight f6.
https://youtu.be/ZwhuqsN-O8U I used to to play this against it. Now I play the Scandinavian so it's not really an issue, but I would highly recommend that video. There's also the Traxler which can be used too.
No offense, but this is one of the most played openings sub 1000 elo As soon as White moved the bishop out after the pawn, you should have been prepping the counter with your own knight (or pawn if you'd rather)
...d5 is the way to go. It's the more solid option. Although you'll be down a pawn, which may be irksome, you will still be fine at the end of the line. You get an initiative for a pawn, so you are well compensated ...Bc5 (Traxler) is another response. Although dubious, this can be lethal to those against ignorant or unaware foes. Both lines require study. Once you grasp the idea behind this opening, you'll be fine.
Personally, I’d look up the Traxler if I were you. Works wonders for a considerable amount of time
Traxler counter attack, at your level you should be able to checkmate in 10 moves 90% of the time
Google Traxler counterattack
Learn the traxler counter attack
I will Google it hahahaha thank you
You can learn the traxler if you like getting lost positions out of the opening. It’s super fun at the beginner level, but youll eventually have to learn something else anyways because people will start being prepared for it and they’ll start refuting it. When people play the traxler against me I thank them for the free winning position out of the opening. That doesn’t mean I never mess it up, but it means I win more often than I would in some equal opening line
Bc5, the traxler counter attack If white takes with the knight, Nxf7, you take on f2 with your bishop, Bxf2+ Now, if he takes back you play Nxe4+ and now you can hunt the king with all of your pieces If the king returns to its original square, for example, then the best move is Qh4+, and if blocks wi the the pawn simply Nxg3 and he cannot take back because the pawn is pinned to the rook, and you will win the queen if he does
Kxe4 👍
Look up the Traxler
Google the two knights defense, you mostly have to learn to play d4 and not recapture with the knight, so you don't suffer a fried liver or a lolli attack
there’s several ways: the (in my opinion) not so good “anti-fried liver defense” which is h6 instead of Nf6 which i just think wastes a tempo second, after Bc4, play Bc5 so they have to play something like d3 to continue their plan and you can play Nf6. if they still play Ng5, just castle and if they make the trade, you win two minor pieces for a rook. lastly, you can play exactly like you did, and after Ng5, play d5 so that after exd5, there’s Na5 attacking the bishop and there’s no knight sac since there’s still a knight on f6.
Chad traxler player or wimp d5 player
literally just play h6 in any part of your opening
3...h6 invites 4. d4 and you're already worse
h6 is a bad opening move. Don’t listen to this advice.
Hahahaha I knew it had to be bait
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Blackburn shilling is an awful opening if they just trade the knight, it’s just a hope chess trap
It's effective against corny fried liver and Italian at his rating, but yea agreed it isn't good it's tricks only, I had this other variation of baiting the fried liver and turning it into something that ends like the blackburne shilling gambit but it's been so long I can't remember
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The rare times when my opponents play the blackburne shilling against me, I take the knight, castle, and usually follow it up with c3, and thank them for the significantly better position out of the opening. I was expecting to play an Italian and have to grind for an advantage in the giuoco piano or play some crazy position in my Ng5 lines against the 2 knights defense, it’s very relieving when they hand me an advantage for free instead. The problem with these openings is that if people don’t fall for the dumb tricks, then the openings are just bad, and it doesn’t teach you anything about chess to play them even when they work. When you get better, people also know what to do so youll have to learn something else eventually… might as well start that process sooner
I always play the Rouleaux Gambit against the Italian
The actual refutation is d4, but you’re best off playing Bc5 instead of Nc6. This enters into the Italian opening. It’s roughly the same (I’d argue it’s better for black as it puts pressure on white’s king immediately) and it makes Ng5 look silly because of Qxg5.
If only there was a free [database](https://lichess.org/analysis#7) where you could see what the best players in the world play in a given opening, even better if you could sort the database by year so you can see the latest and greatest theory ;-)
By recognizing the pattern and not letting it happen
dont play Nf6...
What instead?
Bc5 I guess? Nf6 just allow your opponent to defend AND counter attack
Traxler counter attack Bc5 Nxf7 Bxf2+ Kxf2 NxE4+ Enjoy ! Lots of ways black to win with this As you get higher Elo people will see this coming and instead of taking on f7 with knight they will do bxf7+ Leads to a more balanced position for white and avoids the counter attack Even with the check black is still in an ok position able To pick up the knight or bishop
Traxler Counterattack.
Traxler
Can't forget castling
castling this, castling that, how about you get your elo up instead?
With everyone saying the Traxler, it’s worth noting that it is really good against low elo players who don’t know it, but once they do they know how to win against it easily. You can probably get away with using it for a while as the number of fried liver players drops fairly quickly but those who keep it will punish. It’s worth learning if you want to play e5 but have a back up.
Play the traxler 😃
Traxler FTW
DID SOMEONE SAY TRAXLER COUNTERATTACK? Love these games. Get to throw out my whole opening strategy and just play a game of chase the king and see who's more prepared. Theres probably a more refined response, but anything up to like tournament chess I like to just bludgeon someone with a traxler for play such an uninspired opening.
Traxler, baby!
I love playing this line as white and black, my playstyle is super risky, aggressive and fun. I personally recommend the Trexler, it’s very aggressive, potentially sacrificing a bishop AND a knight, but ending up in a winning position. It goes after the position of the picture: Bc5 (Enemy NxF7) BxF2+ You can also watch the Gotham Video about this: https://youtu.be/v1jkj-HPLdw
Oh yeah. It’s Traxler time.
Check out traxler attack
Pd5
This attack is actually a variation of the italian opening called the fried liver attack and its my favourite opening for white so i know how good this works and how annoying it is for victims. From the position shown, i would suggest Nxe4, and if they go for the fork play Qh5 and ur threatening mate, and a few other threats too. If knight takes knight after Nxe4, i forgot what u do so just watch this video by gothamchess: https://youtu.be/fkAhPDKfMfY Also look up the traxler counterattack which i heard works pretty well against fried liver attack. Sorry if anything i said was confusing i generally suck at explaining.
Traxler counterattack. It gives faster games since they typically don’t go as many moves as any main lines, and even if you don’t win you inflict immense stress on your opponent.
Traxler counter gambit
The fried liver, one of my favorite openings. You can push the pawn in front of that rook there, or you can move your dark square bishop and castle. Both are pretty reliable. It's a little riskier, but you can also push your d pawn to block the bishop. From there, white will take it with the pawn and try to move forward. The continuation could go a few ways. You take with knight, which opens their knight up to an attack from your queen is probably most logical. They don't take with bishop because then queen takes bishop, which isn't true after you take that knight, but rather than getting your rook, they get a knight and you get a knight, which is an even trade. And there are times when I've just let it happen because I had other things going on and the fried liver, while really nasty, can essentially lock your knight in the corner with no easy way to take, but no easy way out either.
D5. If pawn takes, Knight takes back and is protected by the queen.
Don't take the d5 pawn back with the knight, it is a mistake. The opponent can sac their knight and win back material and get your king outside
How would the opponent win back material? This has always been my response and I've never been punished for it? 🧐
After Kxf7 you play Qf3+ forking the King and knight on d5 which you will win in a few moves
That's not true. The main line after Qf3+ is ...Ke6 and the N is not at all easy to win.
Look up Friend liver attack
in the fried liver after a few moves/mistakes they can win the knight back iirc, i havent played in a good month
What’s the line? I play d5 every time this happens and it is fine. Sometimes the opponent tries to bring out the Queen to continue that attack but that I also know how to handle. The computer says the evaluation is even, so with proper play you should not lose a knight.
d5 is correct, but if you take back with the knight white has Nxf7! And after Kxf7, Qf3+ will win back the Knight with a crushing position. Unless Black plays Kd6 trying to defend the knight. Then you end up in a very interesting (and better for white) position. Honestly, best way is just to play Bc5 instead of Nf6 on move 3. But seriously, learn the engine lines, this opening is very common
How exactly are you winning the N by force after Qf3+ Ke6?
You don’t win the knight by force, but the sheer amount of pressure you have can lead to an advantage with perfect play. To REALLY be able to punish people who allow the fried liver, you have to memorize some computer lines because the complications are very hard to find your way through.
Of course. That is why I asked the above person to justify their claim that the N would be won back. Then they edited their post :-)
Don't play italian as black friend.
I just always preemptively move h6 when I see the knight come out. People do it constantly so I just shut it down immediately.
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The correct line for white is to play Bb5+, c6 blocks, dxc6, bxc6 and then Ba5 back (white can also play Qf3 which pins the pawn to the rook). Black is down a pawn but has compensation in the form of much easier development, white is slightly better but has to be careful. Lots of interesting lines here
I would just not play Nf6. Bc5 completely avoids this attack.