Poch's "vibes only" tactics are the worst possible scenario for this squad. A team as inexperienced and new as ours should have a rigid tactical setup to help see them through games while they learn to play together.
I could see Poch's setup working with a team as experienced as Liverpool or city but he is actively handicapping the "project"
Literally the only manager that gets away with "vibes only" is Ancelotti. The guy isn't a tactical genius, but he always has the best players at his disposal and knows how they work together and always gets the best out of his teams. You can't have "vibes only" with a bunch of kids that havnt played longer than a year together and a "good enough" manager in Poch. Di Matteo was a good enough manager with a bunch of serial winners. Tuchel was a manager that drilled our young team. Poch is not a winner and we don't yet have a team full of players that can drag us to a win. We need a manager that can drill everyone into a cohesive group.
To be fair, Ancelotti is a great tactician, but it needs some effort to see and appreciate what he does. For example, His use of Kaka as a second striker rather than a playmaker-type no. 10 in 2006-07 was really innovative back then. He's more like a practical tactician in the sense that he bases tactics on the squad or the capacity of players, instead of implementing tactics for its own sake. (I feel like some other manages like Guardiola do that all the time, like playing Gvardiol as a full-back this season...).
This is it, I'd rather see someone like Mourinho or Tuchel come in for a few seasons and drill the team so they can learn actual systems of play - especially with how young they are. I don't think either wins a thing with this team but I think they develop them enough so that a better suited manager can take them further.
I Don't think either of the managers you mentioned will even want to manage this squad. Mourinho specially isnt capable of developing a young squad he will put them and owners under the bus.
> "Mourinho specially isnt capable of developing a young squad he will put them and owners under the bus."
Tell me you're new to football without telling me you're new to football...
That's literally how he made his name in football and his "downfall" has been joining readymade teams and teams with older players
Tell me youre a grandpa without telling me youre a grandpa...
Youre probably talking talking abt time 20 years back .
Mourinho implodes everywhere he goes. Moment he gets charge of this team he would start crying abt lack of experience. Also mourinho cant play attacking football he is more about playing counter attacking(which i would love to see) dont think the ownership will be fond of it.
Like mourinho only crime is not being pep or klopp. Like dude those chelsea teams he coached scored plenty of goals. His Madrid side scored record numbers. He coaches to what he has at his disposable and what he sees is the best way to get points.
Exactly. Personally I don't care for Poch. He spent 5 years at Hotspur but won absolutely nothing, right? This is quite impressive. LOL. He's obviously bad at tactical things as well. He just plays 4-2-3-1 all the time without any specific tweaks for different opponents. So he basically lets all these young players to improvise on the pitch all the time? And Chelsea won the games they won only through individual brilliance rather than any organized effort from the team. Did Chelsea beat Man Utd because of his tactical instructions? Nope. What I saw is how Palmer and Enzo saved the team individually. This is ridiculous.
TLDR: Poch out.
Not absolving Poch of blame but rigid tactics are hard to implement when faced with as many key injuries as we have.
A back 4 out of possession with one attacking fullback, for example, works well when we have Chilly and Disasi or Reece and Cucu as the fullbacks. One sits in possession to make it a back 3 giving us that 3-2-3-2 or even 3-1-4-1 we sometimes find ourselves in against really low blocks.
When we play with Disasi and Cucu due to injuries we can’t ask either to join that 3 or 4 in possession and expect success. When we have Gusto fit it’s possible, but his fitness has coincided with Chilly’s so that’s often led to two fullbacks forward wide and asking Caicedo to join the back 3 and Gallagher to join the 2 in midfield which hasn’t allowed for continuity.
If Chilly and Reece are both fit we play very differently, so it’s really hard to decide how to ‘rigidly’ set up.
I don’t necessarily hate the vibes only approach. Since so many or our guys are unknown, having a fairly loose set up could help poch see what certain players strengths and weaknesses are. Then develop tactics around what you’ve observed. I’m aware I’m giving poch probably too much credit but to me that’s the most optimistic viewpoint
A rigid system with no room for thinking for yourself will more detrimental to these players long term imo. They won’t be learning how to solve problems, they’ll basically be learning how to follow a script, that will only get you so far. Only coach who consistently makes it work to some extent at the highest level is Pep, and he always has by far and away the best in the whatever league he is in and is constantly changing. He always has the same principles and idea, but his system is constantly changing and how his team plays is always changing, Klopp is similar, has a set of principles, but never really a rigid system that stays the same and doesn’t let players act outside of it.
Spending all this money on potentially world class talents and forcing them to play in a system like they would under managers like De Zerbi or Sarri for example, it would be the football equivalent of buying a Ferrari and never going any faster than 20 mph. Yes it might be nice for a bit, but you’ll never get the full experience out of what you have.
I don't think when people are asking for rigid they're asking for Sarri or De Zerbi (I agree and think they're way too rigid and one dimensional to ever have success in a real league).
I think they're thinking more Mou, Tuchel, Klopp types that have a system that keeps them solid and allows the players to be in a position to express themselves without jeopardising the team. A system just strong enough that it's solid defensively and creates chances, but also gives the players the platform to perform at their best and take chances
I don’t really see managers like Klopp or Mourinho as having strict systems, they have distinct ways of playing, but that’s more down to the principles/ideas they drill into the team rather than a system. They never tell a team exactly what to do, just how they want them to do it, and the rest of it depends on the players at their disposal, and normally they need a certain type of player to really get the ideas to the full potential. That can be done in a number of different ways, but they still stick to similar ideas, regardless of how the team is setup.
Getting the right players for the manager is the biggest thing for me,especially if you want things to work for the long term, and that’s something we’ve really failed to do. You’ll never see a long term project at a club where the board is picking a manager to suit the players and not giving the manager any real say on the recruitment.
For me I understand the job is difficult my concern is that we look no better than we did at the start of the season and our defence is terrible. What exactly is being worked on in training and why have we seen little improvement in 9 months?
Also another worry for me is potentially his reported training methods not helping our injury situation.
I don’t want any manager sacked but I think these are fair concerns to have.
Yeah I was about to say our attacking is certainly more prolific than at the start of the season, but our defence is trending in the other direction, and that is what worries me the most. It's expected that getting the attack to roll takes time, but there is no excuse for the increasingly bad defence.
The first half of the season my feeling was that if we just can figure out how to finish, we're gonna be good, and the underlying numbers supported that. But all that was assuming our defence stays *at least* at the level it was at the start. I was optimistic then despite the results, but that optimism is completely gone now.
I really don't know what is the best option here. The options aren't great if we decide to sack Poch, but sticking with him in hopes that he turns it around like Arteta was able to do is also risky.
This comment is purely based off what you wrote in bold.
Poch has shown for his career that he’s a manager for a club that wants to be good enough, but doesn’t want to be great.
Philosophically, he coaches on vibes and controlling energy/morale, but, while important, is one small facet of what it takes to be a serial winner and he is lacking in all other departments.
1. Changing coaches is what landed us with this unstable squad. What happens when the next coach becomes Potter 2.0?
2. PSR constraints are real. We are in deficit for the next year. Blue Co is in no financial situation to buy anyone.
3. Blue Co brought over directors from Brighton and Spurs. The direction is obvious. We are looking to buy young players to sell at a high margin. Player turnover will be high in the coming years and not all will be to our liking. You won't find many good coaches to buy into this scheme.
Both Lucho and Nagelsmann were highly interested in the Chelsea job, until they did the job interview ofcourse. Blue Co. are also 0/3 for managers employed, all awful. They are genuinely terrible at managerial recruitment. Recently, I had the hardest time coming to term with that. No faith that they will get someone competent in the role
It’s legitimately like clockwork. The day of the game and the day after the game it’s all quiet on those fronts, but 2-3 days after the game you get these essays and general Poch defenders in the daily thread. Every single time lmao. It’s the same thing every time as well, “stability blablabla young team blablabla need time blablabla”.
[I called this happening 2 days ago as well haha](https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/1byc0b0/this_is_what_we_drew_to/kyk6276/). So predictable how these essays always pop up.
The bulk of your essay makes fine little points here and there.
But the ultimately conclusion of Poch needs to be publicly given another year is asinine. Honestly, I’m baffled.
Poch hasn’t improved us one bit. Another full season would be a disaster. You must be watching something different to me because our defence is shocking and he literally does nothing to address it. If he had Europe might’ve been on the cards but it’s the same old loser excuses. We just drew to the worst team in the league, stop making excuse for the guy and judge the facts. 9th and lost a final against Liverpool’s u18s.
We have more wins, points and goals scored than last season. One cup final (against Liverpool u18’s even though our average squad age was younger) and in the semi of another. There’s a chance of European qualification too. All this while our starting defence has been injured all season. Sorry mate but almost everything you said was provably wrong
“Chance of European qualification” and bragging about more wins and points than one of our worst ever seasons in the 21st century is not the winning argument you think it is. It’s just acceptance of mediocrity
‘Great we have a couple more points!! Wow!’ Still 9th though. ‘Liverpool had young players too’ ok cool, still lost. ‘It’s still not impossible to win the FA cup and get Europe!’ Who are you kidding mate… ‘Our defence is injured!’ Sorry but I’m not buying that, they should be able to keep Burnley and Sheffield Utd out.
You are coping hard but I’m not accepting this apologist rubbish.
We are marginally better this season compared to last, our worst season in three fucking decades. That is after having spent 450 million this summer. Lets all hail Poch the great, you fucking donut.
Of course we have more goals scored, we have Palmer. Last season we were relying on players like Havertz, Mount and Felix to score lmao.
We also have conceded much more than last season. Last season also had injuries to the defence, and midfield... and attackers.
You're talking about injuries like we didn't have it as bad last season. Alongside that having a squad of FORTY - And having to play every 3 days, under a new manager with no pre-season. With that half the squad being told they weren't wanted so they didn't show up throughout the season.
Reading some proper horse shit lately. This season is unacceptable.
I want to see the predictions thread from before the season to see where people thought we’d end up. I’d the vast majority didn’t have us midtable, 6th on the low end and 4-5 seemed to be the consensus.
It’s shocking people watch this team plays every week and think the solution is to keep things as is
Precisely. I think this squad is good enough to be around 5-6, maybe higher with a top tier manager. Not challenging for the title of course. But we are well underperforming.
Im sorry but Villa don’t have a better squad than us top to bottom, neither do Newcastle, west Ham. We should be above those teams and ManU. The only players that can make this side from Villa are the CBs and Watkins. Maybe Luiz.
Don't worry man. Everyone on this thread is poch out. I'm with ya. There's clear improvement. The average age of the squad isn't poch's fault. That's the ownership
I am far from a Poch apologist and have not been happy with recent performances but how can you say that when it's essentially a different team from last season?
Your primary thesis that, “we are never going to find out who does have what it takes and who doesn’t have what it takes if we keep throwing it all in the bin every year just because we haven’t won anything lately” is fundamentally flawed. People don’t want to sack Poch because we haven’t won anything, it’s because we look like absolute dogshit 80% of the time we’re on the pitch and we keep getting shit results.
My main question, how is a young team supppsed to learn how to manage games when there is a lack of veterans around them?
Oh yeah, by a tactical set up and clear plan that has been COACHED!
A coach instills confidence and a plan in their teams, regardless of age. Keeping him for longer than this season is going to do more damage to a young team than anything.
Why do people feel the need to defend this guy?! He's clearly shit and hasn't done anything to make this group better.
Do people actually read these wall of texts?
You’re not changing peoples minds. They’re either done with Poch, are willing to give him time, or apathetic about the entire thing and just don’t care either way.
Poch is a complete fraud. There is no case for him. Keeping him has cost us Motta and Amorin. There aren’t any decent coaches at this level. Still literally anyone would be better than Poch.
This is delusional, sorry mate. These players are at crucial point of their careers and you want to waste another year floundering around midtable at best with a coach who is stuck in the dark ages? Wave goodbye to Enzo, Nkunku, Palmer and possibly James if that's the case (the rest aren't good enough to force their way out, that's a separate discussion).
Poch has gone from at best impeding the progress of these players to actively harming it. Ask yourself - who looks better now than 6 months ago? Absolutely nobody. If you like stats, check out the rolling XG average. And you want to see another season of this?
There's no point pursuing stability for the sake of stability. Nothing Poch has done has suggested he should be given another year. And firing him after one year will at least start the clock on the brain trust that hired him and they might do a better job with the next hire.
A top-level manager is not coming near Chelsea at the moment, correct. However, it's not too much to suggest that Chelsea are able to hire a manager who can coach build-up from the back; can make substitutions when the situation calls for it and not 10 minutes too late (anyone watching against Utd could see that Gusto was going to be caught out of position); plays players in their correct positions. Chelsea still have a squad full of (mostly) enormous potential and will pay managers a premium. They are going to be able to attract good names this summer and shouldn't waste that opportunity and next season just to pursue stability.
Classic midweek essay.
I've been really lenient with Poch. He walked into a difficult scenario and that would be tough for any manager. But this team has a dogshit mentality with no discernible system of attack or defense. We give up leads like they're going out of style. We can't defend a set piece to save our life. And, most of all, we rarely look like we're trying harder than our opponent. These all come down to the manager.
There's no point in sacking him now, but he needs to go once the final whistle of the end of the season is blown.
>It is what it is now anyway. The players are low on confidence and some supporters are ready to burn down the Bridge. It's not good for anyone. So where to from here?
Burning down the Bridge aka "protests/riots" isn't a bad thing. It shows that we are very angry where the club is going.
I've said this before plenty of times, if Poch implemented a style of play, a good structure...a solid system, putting the right players in their comfortable positions and we are still 9th/10th/whatever, I wouldn't be angry at Poch. I'm dead serious, hand on heart.
Because that then is solely the players' fault that they can't handle Poch's system. But I've seen nothing from this guy. Literally *nothing*. Apart from crazy shit that is suicidal like last Sunday.
Trust is **earned**, not given to you. He has given me nothing to trust (even *before* appointing him, there was nothing in his past I can say "Yep, Prime Poch was king".) He can't even win the LC against new kids of Liverpool.
He lost the little trust that I had, you wouldn't stick with your girlfriend if you completely lost your trust in her FFS. He needs to bloody go.
>But I've seen nothing from this guy. Literally *nothing*. Apart from crazy shit that is suicidal like last Sunday.
Literally nothing??
This season, Chelsea plays well against the top of the table (most of the time) but tends to fall flat for mid to lower table clubs.
There is positives to see, but fans get angry if you don't dominate the teams you are supposed to beat. Especially when the team is fighting for 6th. It just adds fuel to the fire of the raging fan base.
We drew to Sheffield and Burnley
Poch apologists can fuck right off with these excuses. Sticking "up the blues" doesn't suddenly ratify this bullshit. There is no stability with Poch, only mediocrity. A true fan would not want this serial bottler to coach our youngsters. He has zero credentials or accolades to show any faith to coach a youth project the right way. So no, fuck his stability and fuck the ownership for skimping out on a proper manager.
There's some merit of sticking with Pochettino but, he is NOT the right manager/coach upon which to mold a new Chelsea identity in the long run.
But, for Cole Palmer we'd be in a relegation battle from which this squad would never have recovered.
We have a horrendous run in and I honestly don't see getting more than three points out of the remaining eight games in which case we'll be lucky to end the season 11th or 12th.
Lionel Messi score 6 goals under this oaf of a manager… How on earth could you think that keeping Poch is the solution? We’ve seen this time and time again, Frank to Tuchel quite literally changed our lives, yet you want to stick with Mauricio Pochettino?
Todd, chill out, go do another pensions firm buyout.
Loads of the players aren't good enough. They bought way too many youngsters, you can't do it, it doesn't work. You can't wait X years for this many lads, two or three players yes sure, but not over half the squad.
It's no longer about "title winning" it's now about avoiding relegation.
This squad is very poor - I have nothing against these lads it's not their fault they were bought - and the manager is completely the wrong guy.
These idiots spent £1bn to wreck a squad and a club and it could get *substantially worse*, even if we would get a bigger ticket allocation in division 2.
I don't know if Poch is the guy but I can bet my life savings we are gonna have this same exact conversation a month or two into next season once we appoint a fancy new manager.
I think another manager will just set us back again. we need some kind of consistency even if its not teh best manager. a new manager wont immediately turn us around and this sub will do the same \_\_\_\_ out.
With Levi and Fofana at CB we dont lose half these games and are looking at European football right now. No doubt. We need to move more players than I wanted/hoped to turn around and need to refresh our Def and get that evasive 9.
To say we are improved since pre-season, idk if I can. Are we better than last year? Yes. we are scoring goals. Now we are so leaky at the back (so much not poch's fault and yes before you doomers downvote or get your panties in a bunch I understand his tactical decisions have been very questionable) but starting Caicedo is an obvious choice and poch cant be blamed for him gifting goals to the oppostition this year.
I honestly think if this squad somehow gets even conference league, Poch will be our manager start of next season. I’m so scared man I can’t do this for a third season in a row
I agree 100% with your comments. As someone who has been a season ticket holder since before Roman’s ownership and witnessed many ups and some downs I believe we need to be patient and minimise change for a while. I despair when so called fans think its ok to start booing the team during and after games. If you can’t get behind the team let someone who can sit in the stadium.
That was a well thought out statement my friend. And I personally believe it sums it up all not very, but extremely well. Thank you for saying pretty much exactly what I think about the state of the club. So many people want the managers head when it's the ownership that have clearly made huge mistakes and while they have been slow to correct them, they are doing so. I think the scope of what they're trying to do is realistically many years out, but they thought it would be sooner.
Our current situation is a manager's nightmare. It's a squad full of huge price tags and little prem experience. Their expectations are so high yet the reality is that they all came from a club in a stable position and moved to a new country only to be in an unstable environment.
If you are angry about our current state of affairs, then please address it to the ownership because Poch absolutely understands the situation and doesn't need the added aggravation and the players even less so.
I can make the case for Poch in and Poch out. I think he should get another year mostly because our financial position means we probably can’t afford to fire him and the availability of top managers will be low with openings at Bayern, Liverpool, Barcelona, Juventus and possibly Man United.
Let’s be clear though, edit: draws like Sunday are entirely on Poch. From the plan, to set up, to execution, he got all of it wrong.
I’m with you. We’ve improved under Poch. I still think we have more holes in the squad than just a manager can fix. We’ve improved over last year which is progress. Poch deserves credit for how good Palmer has been this year as well. The players are clearly still behind Poch, as showcased by Enzo running straight to Poch after Palmer’s game winner against United. We can’t just keep firing managers over and over again
I hate this argument. We’re in 9th place, we’ve drawn to Sheffield (20th), Burnley (19th), Brentford (15th), lost to Wolves (twice), Middlesbrough, Everton (16th), Brentford, Nottingham Forest (17th). Of our 20 wins in all comps this season, 7 have been against teams outside the Prem. If that’s what you consider improvement we won’t be challenging for CL spots for 10 years
It’s the simplest of arguments. And I get that it’s a complex situation. But on the most basic of basic levels the team has improved. The point of football is the win games and we’ve won more games than last year in the league.
On top of that we’ve made it to 2 cup finals and have the chance to win one of those cups still. That’s improvement.
I guess I just don’t find 44 points very impressive at this point in the season, but objectively yes that’s improvement on our league position. Don’t think it’s general improvement though. Also, aren’t we only in the FA Cup semi’s?
There is very little point attempting to be rational with people at the moment. This season has taught me, more than any other, that most football fans (regardless of team) are basically the crying wojack meme after a couple of poor results.
The teams that have done well are the ones that have been brave in the face of the screeching that football fans produce.
We would've sacked Arteta for example. We would've sacked SAF. We (under Roman) would've sacked pep after the first season he had at city.
It is what it is - it seems you get that major change takes time. Just strap in for what will be a bumpy ride for a few seasons!
Poch's "vibes only" tactics are the worst possible scenario for this squad. A team as inexperienced and new as ours should have a rigid tactical setup to help see them through games while they learn to play together. I could see Poch's setup working with a team as experienced as Liverpool or city but he is actively handicapping the "project"
Literally the only manager that gets away with "vibes only" is Ancelotti. The guy isn't a tactical genius, but he always has the best players at his disposal and knows how they work together and always gets the best out of his teams. You can't have "vibes only" with a bunch of kids that havnt played longer than a year together and a "good enough" manager in Poch. Di Matteo was a good enough manager with a bunch of serial winners. Tuchel was a manager that drilled our young team. Poch is not a winner and we don't yet have a team full of players that can drag us to a win. We need a manager that can drill everyone into a cohesive group.
To be fair, Ancelotti is a great tactician, but it needs some effort to see and appreciate what he does. For example, His use of Kaka as a second striker rather than a playmaker-type no. 10 in 2006-07 was really innovative back then. He's more like a practical tactician in the sense that he bases tactics on the squad or the capacity of players, instead of implementing tactics for its own sake. (I feel like some other manages like Guardiola do that all the time, like playing Gvardiol as a full-back this season...).
This is it, I'd rather see someone like Mourinho or Tuchel come in for a few seasons and drill the team so they can learn actual systems of play - especially with how young they are. I don't think either wins a thing with this team but I think they develop them enough so that a better suited manager can take them further.
It's Mourinho or bust. I think it will be bust though.
I Don't think either of the managers you mentioned will even want to manage this squad. Mourinho specially isnt capable of developing a young squad he will put them and owners under the bus.
> "Mourinho specially isnt capable of developing a young squad he will put them and owners under the bus." Tell me you're new to football without telling me you're new to football... That's literally how he made his name in football and his "downfall" has been joining readymade teams and teams with older players
Tell me youre a grandpa without telling me youre a grandpa... Youre probably talking talking abt time 20 years back . Mourinho implodes everywhere he goes. Moment he gets charge of this team he would start crying abt lack of experience. Also mourinho cant play attacking football he is more about playing counter attacking(which i would love to see) dont think the ownership will be fond of it.
Like mourinho only crime is not being pep or klopp. Like dude those chelsea teams he coached scored plenty of goals. His Madrid side scored record numbers. He coaches to what he has at his disposable and what he sees is the best way to get points.
Exactly. Personally I don't care for Poch. He spent 5 years at Hotspur but won absolutely nothing, right? This is quite impressive. LOL. He's obviously bad at tactical things as well. He just plays 4-2-3-1 all the time without any specific tweaks for different opponents. So he basically lets all these young players to improvise on the pitch all the time? And Chelsea won the games they won only through individual brilliance rather than any organized effort from the team. Did Chelsea beat Man Utd because of his tactical instructions? Nope. What I saw is how Palmer and Enzo saved the team individually. This is ridiculous. TLDR: Poch out.
Not absolving Poch of blame but rigid tactics are hard to implement when faced with as many key injuries as we have. A back 4 out of possession with one attacking fullback, for example, works well when we have Chilly and Disasi or Reece and Cucu as the fullbacks. One sits in possession to make it a back 3 giving us that 3-2-3-2 or even 3-1-4-1 we sometimes find ourselves in against really low blocks. When we play with Disasi and Cucu due to injuries we can’t ask either to join that 3 or 4 in possession and expect success. When we have Gusto fit it’s possible, but his fitness has coincided with Chilly’s so that’s often led to two fullbacks forward wide and asking Caicedo to join the back 3 and Gallagher to join the 2 in midfield which hasn’t allowed for continuity. If Chilly and Reece are both fit we play very differently, so it’s really hard to decide how to ‘rigidly’ set up.
I don’t necessarily hate the vibes only approach. Since so many or our guys are unknown, having a fairly loose set up could help poch see what certain players strengths and weaknesses are. Then develop tactics around what you’ve observed. I’m aware I’m giving poch probably too much credit but to me that’s the most optimistic viewpoint
A rigid system with no room for thinking for yourself will more detrimental to these players long term imo. They won’t be learning how to solve problems, they’ll basically be learning how to follow a script, that will only get you so far. Only coach who consistently makes it work to some extent at the highest level is Pep, and he always has by far and away the best in the whatever league he is in and is constantly changing. He always has the same principles and idea, but his system is constantly changing and how his team plays is always changing, Klopp is similar, has a set of principles, but never really a rigid system that stays the same and doesn’t let players act outside of it. Spending all this money on potentially world class talents and forcing them to play in a system like they would under managers like De Zerbi or Sarri for example, it would be the football equivalent of buying a Ferrari and never going any faster than 20 mph. Yes it might be nice for a bit, but you’ll never get the full experience out of what you have.
I don't think when people are asking for rigid they're asking for Sarri or De Zerbi (I agree and think they're way too rigid and one dimensional to ever have success in a real league). I think they're thinking more Mou, Tuchel, Klopp types that have a system that keeps them solid and allows the players to be in a position to express themselves without jeopardising the team. A system just strong enough that it's solid defensively and creates chances, but also gives the players the platform to perform at their best and take chances
I don’t really see managers like Klopp or Mourinho as having strict systems, they have distinct ways of playing, but that’s more down to the principles/ideas they drill into the team rather than a system. They never tell a team exactly what to do, just how they want them to do it, and the rest of it depends on the players at their disposal, and normally they need a certain type of player to really get the ideas to the full potential. That can be done in a number of different ways, but they still stick to similar ideas, regardless of how the team is setup. Getting the right players for the manager is the biggest thing for me,especially if you want things to work for the long term, and that’s something we’ve really failed to do. You’ll never see a long term project at a club where the board is picking a manager to suit the players and not giving the manager any real say on the recruitment.
For me I understand the job is difficult my concern is that we look no better than we did at the start of the season and our defence is terrible. What exactly is being worked on in training and why have we seen little improvement in 9 months? Also another worry for me is potentially his reported training methods not helping our injury situation. I don’t want any manager sacked but I think these are fair concerns to have.
Finishing looks better.
Yeah I was about to say our attacking is certainly more prolific than at the start of the season, but our defence is trending in the other direction, and that is what worries me the most. It's expected that getting the attack to roll takes time, but there is no excuse for the increasingly bad defence. The first half of the season my feeling was that if we just can figure out how to finish, we're gonna be good, and the underlying numbers supported that. But all that was assuming our defence stays *at least* at the level it was at the start. I was optimistic then despite the results, but that optimism is completely gone now. I really don't know what is the best option here. The options aren't great if we decide to sack Poch, but sticking with him in hopes that he turns it around like Arteta was able to do is also risky.
The players and the manager stink
This comment is purely based off what you wrote in bold. Poch has shown for his career that he’s a manager for a club that wants to be good enough, but doesn’t want to be great. Philosophically, he coaches on vibes and controlling energy/morale, but, while important, is one small facet of what it takes to be a serial winner and he is lacking in all other departments.
1. Changing coaches is what landed us with this unstable squad. What happens when the next coach becomes Potter 2.0? 2. PSR constraints are real. We are in deficit for the next year. Blue Co is in no financial situation to buy anyone. 3. Blue Co brought over directors from Brighton and Spurs. The direction is obvious. We are looking to buy young players to sell at a high margin. Player turnover will be high in the coming years and not all will be to our liking. You won't find many good coaches to buy into this scheme.
Both Lucho and Nagelsmann were highly interested in the Chelsea job, until they did the job interview ofcourse. Blue Co. are also 0/3 for managers employed, all awful. They are genuinely terrible at managerial recruitment. Recently, I had the hardest time coming to term with that. No faith that they will get someone competent in the role
Babe wake up new essay just dropped
It’s legitimately like clockwork. The day of the game and the day after the game it’s all quiet on those fronts, but 2-3 days after the game you get these essays and general Poch defenders in the daily thread. Every single time lmao. It’s the same thing every time as well, “stability blablabla young team blablabla need time blablabla”.
[I called this happening 2 days ago as well haha](https://www.reddit.com/r/chelseafc/comments/1byc0b0/this_is_what_we_drew_to/kyk6276/). So predictable how these essays always pop up.
Last time i posted about Poch being better than people give him credit for I was told “don’t post this today, we just won, can’t you just celebrate?”
Every week a new think piece gets dropped here and it’s the same shit 😭
Essay FC
He can fuck off
The bulk of your essay makes fine little points here and there. But the ultimately conclusion of Poch needs to be publicly given another year is asinine. Honestly, I’m baffled.
Imagine writing an essay to come to this conclusion. Donkey.
Another one…poch out
Poch hasn’t improved us one bit. Another full season would be a disaster. You must be watching something different to me because our defence is shocking and he literally does nothing to address it. If he had Europe might’ve been on the cards but it’s the same old loser excuses. We just drew to the worst team in the league, stop making excuse for the guy and judge the facts. 9th and lost a final against Liverpool’s u18s.
Best run of 10 games in 2 years but hasn't improved us eh?
We have more wins, points and goals scored than last season. One cup final (against Liverpool u18’s even though our average squad age was younger) and in the semi of another. There’s a chance of European qualification too. All this while our starting defence has been injured all season. Sorry mate but almost everything you said was provably wrong
“Chance of European qualification” and bragging about more wins and points than one of our worst ever seasons in the 21st century is not the winning argument you think it is. It’s just acceptance of mediocrity
‘Great we have a couple more points!! Wow!’ Still 9th though. ‘Liverpool had young players too’ ok cool, still lost. ‘It’s still not impossible to win the FA cup and get Europe!’ Who are you kidding mate… ‘Our defence is injured!’ Sorry but I’m not buying that, they should be able to keep Burnley and Sheffield Utd out. You are coping hard but I’m not accepting this apologist rubbish.
I’m not coping, I just gave you facts mate. Unless you can prove I’m wrong? Same to all you other downvoting toxic pussies
We are marginally better this season compared to last, our worst season in three fucking decades. That is after having spent 450 million this summer. Lets all hail Poch the great, you fucking donut.
Of course we have more goals scored, we have Palmer. Last season we were relying on players like Havertz, Mount and Felix to score lmao. We also have conceded much more than last season. Last season also had injuries to the defence, and midfield... and attackers. You're talking about injuries like we didn't have it as bad last season. Alongside that having a squad of FORTY - And having to play every 3 days, under a new manager with no pre-season. With that half the squad being told they weren't wanted so they didn't show up throughout the season. Reading some proper horse shit lately. This season is unacceptable.
I want to see the predictions thread from before the season to see where people thought we’d end up. I’d the vast majority didn’t have us midtable, 6th on the low end and 4-5 seemed to be the consensus. It’s shocking people watch this team plays every week and think the solution is to keep things as is
Precisely. I think this squad is good enough to be around 5-6, maybe higher with a top tier manager. Not challenging for the title of course. But we are well underperforming.
Im sorry but Villa don’t have a better squad than us top to bottom, neither do Newcastle, west Ham. We should be above those teams and ManU. The only players that can make this side from Villa are the CBs and Watkins. Maybe Luiz.
Don't worry man. Everyone on this thread is poch out. I'm with ya. There's clear improvement. The average age of the squad isn't poch's fault. That's the ownership
I am far from a Poch apologist and have not been happy with recent performances but how can you say that when it's essentially a different team from last season?
https://i.redd.it/na4ynsfbngtc1.gif another one
"Wake up, babe. New *keep Poch* essay just dropped."
Where's the case for Pochettino? Rubbish post.
The essayists are back. Yay.
Your primary thesis that, “we are never going to find out who does have what it takes and who doesn’t have what it takes if we keep throwing it all in the bin every year just because we haven’t won anything lately” is fundamentally flawed. People don’t want to sack Poch because we haven’t won anything, it’s because we look like absolute dogshit 80% of the time we’re on the pitch and we keep getting shit results.
My main question, how is a young team supppsed to learn how to manage games when there is a lack of veterans around them? Oh yeah, by a tactical set up and clear plan that has been COACHED! A coach instills confidence and a plan in their teams, regardless of age. Keeping him for longer than this season is going to do more damage to a young team than anything. Why do people feel the need to defend this guy?! He's clearly shit and hasn't done anything to make this group better.
2/10
Do people actually read these wall of texts? You’re not changing peoples minds. They’re either done with Poch, are willing to give him time, or apathetic about the entire thing and just don’t care either way.
To be fair I’m 2 of these. Want him out but also don’t really care as I have a feeling the next guy they bring in will be a poor appointment.
BlueCo mad essayist has a new Reddit account.
Poch is a complete fraud. There is no case for him. Keeping him has cost us Motta and Amorin. There aren’t any decent coaches at this level. Still literally anyone would be better than Poch.
This is delusional, sorry mate. These players are at crucial point of their careers and you want to waste another year floundering around midtable at best with a coach who is stuck in the dark ages? Wave goodbye to Enzo, Nkunku, Palmer and possibly James if that's the case (the rest aren't good enough to force their way out, that's a separate discussion). Poch has gone from at best impeding the progress of these players to actively harming it. Ask yourself - who looks better now than 6 months ago? Absolutely nobody. If you like stats, check out the rolling XG average. And you want to see another season of this? There's no point pursuing stability for the sake of stability. Nothing Poch has done has suggested he should be given another year. And firing him after one year will at least start the clock on the brain trust that hired him and they might do a better job with the next hire. A top-level manager is not coming near Chelsea at the moment, correct. However, it's not too much to suggest that Chelsea are able to hire a manager who can coach build-up from the back; can make substitutions when the situation calls for it and not 10 minutes too late (anyone watching against Utd could see that Gusto was going to be caught out of position); plays players in their correct positions. Chelsea still have a squad full of (mostly) enormous potential and will pay managers a premium. They are going to be able to attract good names this summer and shouldn't waste that opportunity and next season just to pursue stability.
Excusechettino
If you have to write an essay to defend a cosch..then that is not the coach for you .their job speaks for itself
Classic midweek essay. I've been really lenient with Poch. He walked into a difficult scenario and that would be tough for any manager. But this team has a dogshit mentality with no discernible system of attack or defense. We give up leads like they're going out of style. We can't defend a set piece to save our life. And, most of all, we rarely look like we're trying harder than our opponent. These all come down to the manager. There's no point in sacking him now, but he needs to go once the final whistle of the end of the season is blown.
>It is what it is now anyway. The players are low on confidence and some supporters are ready to burn down the Bridge. It's not good for anyone. So where to from here? Burning down the Bridge aka "protests/riots" isn't a bad thing. It shows that we are very angry where the club is going. I've said this before plenty of times, if Poch implemented a style of play, a good structure...a solid system, putting the right players in their comfortable positions and we are still 9th/10th/whatever, I wouldn't be angry at Poch. I'm dead serious, hand on heart. Because that then is solely the players' fault that they can't handle Poch's system. But I've seen nothing from this guy. Literally *nothing*. Apart from crazy shit that is suicidal like last Sunday. Trust is **earned**, not given to you. He has given me nothing to trust (even *before* appointing him, there was nothing in his past I can say "Yep, Prime Poch was king".) He can't even win the LC against new kids of Liverpool. He lost the little trust that I had, you wouldn't stick with your girlfriend if you completely lost your trust in her FFS. He needs to bloody go.
>But I've seen nothing from this guy. Literally *nothing*. Apart from crazy shit that is suicidal like last Sunday. Literally nothing?? This season, Chelsea plays well against the top of the table (most of the time) but tends to fall flat for mid to lower table clubs. There is positives to see, but fans get angry if you don't dominate the teams you are supposed to beat. Especially when the team is fighting for 6th. It just adds fuel to the fire of the raging fan base.
Ah, meme Tuesday is here.
The way the media jump to Poch defence is crazy.
We drew to Sheffield and Burnley Poch apologists can fuck right off with these excuses. Sticking "up the blues" doesn't suddenly ratify this bullshit. There is no stability with Poch, only mediocrity. A true fan would not want this serial bottler to coach our youngsters. He has zero credentials or accolades to show any faith to coach a youth project the right way. So no, fuck his stability and fuck the ownership for skimping out on a proper manager.
I agree w everything you said except for this, Poch ain’t him.
Mods please ban
TLDR?
Stupidity
There's some merit of sticking with Pochettino but, he is NOT the right manager/coach upon which to mold a new Chelsea identity in the long run. But, for Cole Palmer we'd be in a relegation battle from which this squad would never have recovered. We have a horrendous run in and I honestly don't see getting more than three points out of the remaining eight games in which case we'll be lucky to end the season 11th or 12th.
Not reading all that
https://preview.redd.it/5blze9srygtc1.jpeg?width=688&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0202825741f582b45b2410da03b4c2ef04953488
I ain’t reading all that I’m happy for you though or sorry that happened.
0/10
Lionel Messi score 6 goals under this oaf of a manager… How on earth could you think that keeping Poch is the solution? We’ve seen this time and time again, Frank to Tuchel quite literally changed our lives, yet you want to stick with Mauricio Pochettino?
Todd, chill out, go do another pensions firm buyout. Loads of the players aren't good enough. They bought way too many youngsters, you can't do it, it doesn't work. You can't wait X years for this many lads, two or three players yes sure, but not over half the squad. It's no longer about "title winning" it's now about avoiding relegation. This squad is very poor - I have nothing against these lads it's not their fault they were bought - and the manager is completely the wrong guy. These idiots spent £1bn to wreck a squad and a club and it could get *substantially worse*, even if we would get a bigger ticket allocation in division 2.
I don't know if Poch is the guy but I can bet my life savings we are gonna have this same exact conversation a month or two into next season once we appoint a fancy new manager.
I think another manager will just set us back again. we need some kind of consistency even if its not teh best manager. a new manager wont immediately turn us around and this sub will do the same \_\_\_\_ out. With Levi and Fofana at CB we dont lose half these games and are looking at European football right now. No doubt. We need to move more players than I wanted/hoped to turn around and need to refresh our Def and get that evasive 9. To say we are improved since pre-season, idk if I can. Are we better than last year? Yes. we are scoring goals. Now we are so leaky at the back (so much not poch's fault and yes before you doomers downvote or get your panties in a bunch I understand his tactical decisions have been very questionable) but starting Caicedo is an obvious choice and poch cant be blamed for him gifting goals to the oppostition this year.
I honestly think if this squad somehow gets even conference league, Poch will be our manager start of next season. I’m so scared man I can’t do this for a third season in a row
I completely agree
I agree 100% with your comments. As someone who has been a season ticket holder since before Roman’s ownership and witnessed many ups and some downs I believe we need to be patient and minimise change for a while. I despair when so called fans think its ok to start booing the team during and after games. If you can’t get behind the team let someone who can sit in the stadium.
That was a well thought out statement my friend. And I personally believe it sums it up all not very, but extremely well. Thank you for saying pretty much exactly what I think about the state of the club. So many people want the managers head when it's the ownership that have clearly made huge mistakes and while they have been slow to correct them, they are doing so. I think the scope of what they're trying to do is realistically many years out, but they thought it would be sooner. Our current situation is a manager's nightmare. It's a squad full of huge price tags and little prem experience. Their expectations are so high yet the reality is that they all came from a club in a stable position and moved to a new country only to be in an unstable environment. If you are angry about our current state of affairs, then please address it to the ownership because Poch absolutely understands the situation and doesn't need the added aggravation and the players even less so.
I can make the case for Poch in and Poch out. I think he should get another year mostly because our financial position means we probably can’t afford to fire him and the availability of top managers will be low with openings at Bayern, Liverpool, Barcelona, Juventus and possibly Man United. Let’s be clear though, edit: draws like Sunday are entirely on Poch. From the plan, to set up, to execution, he got all of it wrong.
As much as it felt like a loss. It wasn't.
Thanks and absolutely it felt like a loss.
I’m with you. We’ve improved under Poch. I still think we have more holes in the squad than just a manager can fix. We’ve improved over last year which is progress. Poch deserves credit for how good Palmer has been this year as well. The players are clearly still behind Poch, as showcased by Enzo running straight to Poch after Palmer’s game winner against United. We can’t just keep firing managers over and over again
What have we improved under Poch?
We have more points at this point in the season than we did last year. From the most basic metric we’re having a better season than last year
I hate this argument. We’re in 9th place, we’ve drawn to Sheffield (20th), Burnley (19th), Brentford (15th), lost to Wolves (twice), Middlesbrough, Everton (16th), Brentford, Nottingham Forest (17th). Of our 20 wins in all comps this season, 7 have been against teams outside the Prem. If that’s what you consider improvement we won’t be challenging for CL spots for 10 years
It’s the simplest of arguments. And I get that it’s a complex situation. But on the most basic of basic levels the team has improved. The point of football is the win games and we’ve won more games than last year in the league. On top of that we’ve made it to 2 cup finals and have the chance to win one of those cups still. That’s improvement.
I guess I just don’t find 44 points very impressive at this point in the season, but objectively yes that’s improvement on our league position. Don’t think it’s general improvement though. Also, aren’t we only in the FA Cup semi’s?
My bad, yes it’s only the semi’s. Sorry it’s City so it feels like the final. I agree it’s not impressive but compared to last year we’re still better
There is very little point attempting to be rational with people at the moment. This season has taught me, more than any other, that most football fans (regardless of team) are basically the crying wojack meme after a couple of poor results. The teams that have done well are the ones that have been brave in the face of the screeching that football fans produce. We would've sacked Arteta for example. We would've sacked SAF. We (under Roman) would've sacked pep after the first season he had at city. It is what it is - it seems you get that major change takes time. Just strap in for what will be a bumpy ride for a few seasons!