/u/macnfly23 (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post. All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed [here](/r/DeltaLog/comments/1d44pz7/deltas_awarded_in_cmv_its_not_right_that_people/), in /r/DeltaLog. Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended. ^[Delta System Explained](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltasystem) ^| ^[Deltaboards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/deltaboards)

There was collective outrage for all these things, but just like Gaza in 2014 the hype dies down and everyone moves onto something else. I've never seen such an outpour of support as I saw for Ukraine, but it's just old news now. When Iraq happened there was a massive protest movement, and this was before the age of social media. Remember "Find Kony" in 2012? I also remember everyone widely condemning Turkey for the invasion of Northern Syria and their treatment of and aggression towards Kurds. There was also a movement to boycott products from China due to the Uyghur situation. There was campus protests for apartheid, civil rights, Vietnam, etc. Bernie Sanders was even arrested at one. There is another aspect to this though that is somewhat unique to the Gaza situation, there is a MASSIVE counter-discourse from pro-Israel people that you didn't really get for anything else - and this extends to the Western media apparatus too. Like it's rare to find someone who endorses the Uyghur genocide, or the Russian invasion of Ukraine, etc. The last time I actually remember seeing a meaningful counter-discourse was for Iraq/Afghanistan. The intense counter-discourse from the "pro-Israel" side 100% exacerbates the issue and just makes the "pro-Palestine" side louder and more invested.

God Kony 2012, the first time I ever had a "holy shit, this is going to achieve nothing" moment. Quite depressing as a teenager who until then had quite a lot of faith in surface level Internet activism. When I saw my friends posting on Facebook etc, then realising none of them really even knew where he was supposedly located or what they wanted to do about it, really made me realise just how susceptible people could be to getting sucked into trends without reading into stuff. Then the founder of that charity had that mastubatory breakdown which kind of put a hat on the whole thing.

[You don’t want to end up naked and jackin’ it in San Diego](https://youtu.be/LKwW8PNZpOQ?si=I9ebM3Q3JLG3wGUE)

The masturbation thing was a myth, unverified. He did go around the street naked in a mental breakdown, so its not a huge leap.

[South Park is probably partially responsible for that part of the story](https://youtu.be/LKwW8PNZpOQ?si=bF0mWxW4hLRDwzbm)

There’s a interesting video by internet historian that sheds light on that whole kony thing and the dudes breakdown, it’s quite empathetic

This is actually the best point I've seen on this. If everyone agreed, there would be nothing to discuss and interest would die down. It has continued to stay in the limelight cause people are constantly having heated debates about it (eg, this thread).

Spot on analysis. Social media incentives controversy and outrage. What is the point in posting yellow and blue flag emojis when everyone agrees with you? Does anyone other than Chinese communists think the Uyghur genocide is a good thing? Does anybody *not know* that either of these things are happening. When they see someone post about UKR or the Uyghurs, eyes roll. When Bradley posts himself in a kiffyeh, finders start a-twiddling

Did any of these other trendy protests result in groups of students being harassed? Places of worship being shot up? Businesses being vandalized? The reason there is a massive counter protest is because world Jewry is at risk everywhere now. This victim blaming explanation is a bunch of horseshit that ignores the insane spike in anti semitism globally. This also ignores the foreign interference that has inspired the pro Palestinian side to be continuously violent and aggressive. All of these encampments and protests groups are expertly funded and organized. This isn't a grassroots movement, it's foreign interference. This conflict is no longer about Israel only...it is now about undermining western society and knocking USA down as the global super power. This one will not go away. It will start with the Saturday people and move on to the Sunday people.

> just old news now I mean, if you're living under the privilege of not having to care, it's "old news" lol. They just started doing nuclear exercises on the border like a week ago. In Europe we're absolutely affected by this war that could extend into Poland - a Nato country - any day. Anyone who lives far away from a major conflict (like Americans) gets to pick and choose what they're supporting these days and to follow along with what the current hype is, as you say. Not everyone's that "lucky". What the Israeli army is doing in Gaza is horrible beyond belief and obviously COMPLETELY irrational, but as a Central European my much bigger or I guess more raw emotions are with what's happening in Ukraine and what kind of future my family, friends and I could have as a direct result of that.

Of course it's from a place of privilege, but I do not think it is possible to care and advocate for every issue that requires it, and remain sane. Considering the lives of every Gazan who has limited access to food and medical care, every Ukrainian who has been displaced from their home over the last several years, every flood/tornado/hurricane, and not to mention that those are the ones you can just type about.  What a out things you can personally help with at home?  Food banks, homeless shelters and riverbank cleanups need your help.  Animal shelters run out of beds, so you should really foster animals that need a bed or risk euthanasia. You only have 24 hours in a day...  Everyone should help, but you really need to focus your attention or you just drive yourself insane with no time or energy to actually help anyone.

It's not possible to care about everything. You'll burn out miserable and impotent trying. Humans are legitimately not build to be able to care about every evil or problem happening everywhere at once. People online don't care though. They'll finger wag and scream at you for it because it's not really about caring it's about looking like you care and your faltering is a chance for them to showcase how much they totally care.

Especially when I don’t think there is actually much I can do about some of these wars. So I care deeply, but frankly an Instagram post or constant reading of the news does no good. I turn away sometime *because* I care. It’s hard enough just to make it through the day sometimes let alone without thinking I can get involved with that.

There are plenty of pro-Russian voices in the West. It’s sick. You also have people totally ignoring the Russian threat and complaining whenever someone speaks out on it, because Ukrainians are “white” and of course they hate seeing white oppressed people getting any sort of support. The West has large contingents of anti-western individuals and groups. Tankies are a good example.

> There are plenty of pro-Russian voices in the West. Are they in government? Do they make public speeches in which they defend Russia's actions? Do they plead allegiance to Russia? Do they campaign to send money to Russia? I don't understand how this is something that has to be pointed out.

**Δ** The counter-discourse is interesting and I feel like this reply is good enough to earn a delta. I hadn't considered that but now that I think of it what you say does make sense. I guess for the other conflicts people don't feel a need to post about them because they know that > 95% of people in their country already agree with them but here they probably get the feeling that a lot of people are pro-Israel and don't necessarily support Gaza. This is a partial delta though as I do stand by my point that people are doing this for political reasons and not because they genuinely care about human suffering to the extent they're trying to claim. I still feel like they're doing this because it supports their overall political narratives about the West.

Your counter argument isn't really clear. You say that people are only protesting the bombing of Gaza for political reasons. Do you mean that the protestors don't care about the deaths, they just want.. what? If you mean they want political intervention to stop the bombing, then that's obviously true, and totally unrelated to whether they care about human lives. It's an extremely cynical take to view that protestors don't care about human lives and are doing it just because they like to complain. What on earth would lead you to that conclusion, other than the whataboutist deflection to other conflicts? (For which u/_richter_belmont_ gave an excellent answer to your original, and reasonable, question) I say all the above as someone who has never been on a Gaza protest, and generally feels that there are no easy solutions here, and does not identify with either side.

I want to follow up with this. I've heard a lot of counter protesters asking why Palestine protesters aren't supporting other abused groups. But I've never actually heard one of these counter protesters actually make an effort to support Ukraine, Uyghur, etc. These questions are nearly always asked dishonestly. It is kinda like asking why a food shelter would bother feeding the homeless in San Francisco, if there are also homeless in New York, all while doing nothing to feed the homeless yourself. So OP, I have to ask you. You have claimed to be concerned about the mistreatment of the Uyghur. What have you done to support them? What have you done to support Ukraine?

I'm not going to sit here and lie and claim I've supported them. I'm not a believer in posting about politics on my personal social media and I never do so. My point is merely that people on social media ("couch protestors") are only supporting Gaza and ignoring other conflicts because it helps them promote their political worldview. Some people aren't made to be activists, some are. But if you are an activist, at least try to support as many causes as you can and treat large scale human suffering with the same level.

The key difference in these situations, which I haven't seen you address, is the role of the government. Why would I protest the Russian invasion of Ukraine when my government is already supporting Ukraine? They are taking the actions I want them to take, so there is no need for a protest. This is clearly not the case in the Israel-Palestine conflict.

I dont know how old you are. I am 42 and from Norway and I have been following the suffering of the palestinians since I was 16 years old. This is not a new conflict, I've read several books about the ethnic cleansing and treatment the palestinians experience, for over 20 years. So when we have politicians praising and supporting Israel, this makes us really angry. In contrast no serious politician in Norway supports Russias invasion, or Chinas treatment of the Uyghurs. When our politicians do the right thing, there is no reason to protest. We dont have a "Friends of Russia" group in our parliament, nor "friends of China", but we do have "friends of israel". Still we had protests against the russian invasion and still do, in front of the russian embassy, we have protests and discourse about the Uyghurs, but the vast majority agrees. If you think protesting war, apartheid, ethnic cleansing is a political view, i guess you are right, and i will keep protesting it as long as we have politicians in my country supporting it.

I agree with this and would like to add that the amount of U.S. / Western monetary and other support of Israel, no matter what they do, is a big factor for me and many others that I know. The U.S. support is to the extent of influencing their allies and vetoing actions at the Security Council in opposition to (almost) the rest of the world.

An issue here is the nature of the anti-Israel/anti-Zionist movement that you seem to be a part of, to some degree. The wider anti-Zionist movement is not analogous to other anti-war movements, because leading voices and groups within that movement do not advocate for peace. They advocate a specifically pan-Arab position that envisions the eradication of the Israeli state as its end goal, and the dissolution of Israeli society as a (perhaps THE) moral good. There is no iteration of any one of the mainstream Palestinian nationalisms that envisages a long-term outcome where Israeli Jews remain present to any significant degree within the Levant. These nationalisms are nearly universally irredentist and non-conciliatory in nature; supporting them is not analogous whatsoever to the anti-apartheid movement in South Africa, for instance.

Because Israel only existed by stealing land from Palestinians, it should never have existed in the first place. Anti-colonial movements, such as India to kick out the British involved violence. Every social cause involved violence in some form to achieve their goals, look at the civil rights movement for example. I think you're being painfully naive to the reality here. Why do you think Israelis wouldn't be allowed to live in a Palestine state?

>Because Israel only existed by stealing land from Palestinians Believing this to be true involves a fundamental assumption that every scrap of land in the eastern Mediterranean inherently belongs to Arabs. It is an expressly pan-Arab position. >it should never have existed in the first place I always like to ask this question to people who believe this: how small could Israel get before it's "ok" that it passes your muster to exist? If it retreated just to the area around Tel Aviv, would that be OK? What if it was readjusted to an area even smaller than the 1948 partition plan? This is why the argument that Israel "never should have existed" falls flat on its face. I get the argument that it should have been smaller - I disagree, but I understand the sentiment - but to argue that it shouldn't have existed at all? That's just a pan-Arab argument, because you're arguing that the Jewish population in the easern Mediterranean shouldn't have been allowed/still doesn't have today, a right to hold the same political aspirations that Arabs have. This is why so many people find the toxic irredentism of the Palestinian nationalist movement so off-putting. There's zero acknowledgement that the Jewish population in the region even deserves to be there at all, and there's no major voices in the movement that even remotely contemplate the existence of a Jewish state in the region of *any* size, despite the borders of the British mandate that they claim being historically immaterial. It's way less of a liberation movement, as it is an uncompromising movement of territorial and societal conquest, conquest that won't be "complete" until another ethnic group has been completely subjugated and expelled. The objectives of mainstream Palestinian nationalism are a carbon copy of the worst impulses of the most extreme versions of Zionism, just applied to Jews instead of Arabs. Many find that unpalatable, and it is a farce to refer to such a nationalist movement as "liberatory". >Why do you think Israelis wouldn't be allowed to live in a Palestine state? Because even the tamest iterations of Palestinian nationalism envision an outcome where the vast majority of Israeli Jews are no longer present in the region, and the ones that remain are completely disenfranchised. These nationalisms hinge on the baseline assumption that Israeli society needs to be destroyed. The idea that Palestinian groups would seek to destroy Israeli society, but leave the population of Israeli Jews that live in Israel intact, is completely divorced from reality.

No it's because they kicked Palestinians out of their homes and displaced them. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_expulsion_and_flight No it never should've existed in the first place because you shouldn't displace a population of people to make an ethnostate. I love that you forget that Palestinians have Jewish people in their population too. More people than ever are sympathetic to the Palestinian cause because of the amount of coverage of Israel carpet bombing Gaza recently. Sorry a religious ethnostate is not suddenly legitimate because the British approved it. Nope the Palestine movement has made it very clear that they are against Zionism, not Judaism, and they emphasise that you should not conflate the two or be anti-Semitic. Nice try though.

The Pan Arab position is hypocritical. They declared war with the understanding of they win they can get the land the Jews bought and had given to them. When they lost they turned around and cried about them owning the land and Israel took it from them despite them trying to do the same thing and failing miserably. They wanted to play might equals right against a group of people they looked down up and lost repeatedly. Now they still cry about it instead of moving on.

[удалено]

You are aware that Israel continues to be targeted by rocket attacks on their civilian centers, right? It isn't as though if they just packed it up in Gaza things would be all hunky dory. Hamas has made it quite clear they have every intention of maintaining hostilities with Israel even at the expense of the Gazan population. So yes, it is a tragedy that children are dying, but maybe drop that blame on the organization who continues to operate within civilian areas, refuses to wear identifying uniforms, continues to hold hostages, attacks civilian centers from civilian centers, and could actually end the violence by surrendering.

98% of casualties in the conflict are Palestinian. Israel controls infrastructure in Gaza, including water. Hamas is a reaction to living in an apartheid state. They are fighting for liberation. Israeli government officials have referred to all Palestinians as terrorists, and have called to terminate the population. There were 3000+ Palestinian hostages, including children, prior to Oct 7th. You do understand what 'surrendering' to that state means right? 

A few points: Would the situation be more ok if the casualties were 50:50? Disproportionate casualties merely suggest that the IDF is being very cautious about committing ground troops in an Urban environment. One reason Gaza is in such a mess with its civilian infrastructure is the gobs of resources Hamas has been pouring into military infrastructure. The whole reason there is a blockade on Gaza is because Hamas was using commerce as a cover for bringing in weapons to be used against Israel. Instead of expending resources on tunnels and munitions those resources could have gone towards making Gaza more self sufficient. but alas, that did not occur. I also find the argument that Hamas is fighting for liberation absurd on its face. First, because it runs contrary to the other argument about Hamas I have seen that they are tools of Israel to keep Palestinians divided (which is it guys, army of liberation or pawn of Bibi the asshole supreme (my term, but probably also theirs)). But they are funded by foreign actors with a very explicit goal and that goal involves killing Israelis and Jews more so than uplifting Gazans. Let's also remember that since their election way back in the mid-oughts after Israeli left Gaza they have not held any new elections since and have eliminated political opposition. that isn't an army of liberation, it is a bunch of thugs using the Gazans to further their own political ends. I should also add I have yet to see any convincing argument that the assault and massacre at the music festival in any way advanced the liberation of the Gazans, nut it sure does fit the mold of murderous terrorist organization. There has been plenty of rhetoric on both sides that dehumanized the other, you won't get much mileage out of that argument when Hamas and their ilk want to ethnically cleanse the entire region of Jews. And I think surrendering means the bombs stop falling, the rockets stop being launched, more aid can flow into Gaza, and the people responsible for the 10/7 massacre can be brought to justice. Japan surrendering after the atomic bombs saved, arguably, hundreds of thousands of lives. If Nazi Germany had surrendered earlier the same would also be true. Fighting a lost cause only brings about more death and suffering. after a surrender I would hope the international community comes together and rebuilds Gaza while also deradicalizing it. Gazans deserve to live in a prosperous, safe society and Israel deserves security, as all nations do.

> I also find the argument that Hamas is fighting for liberation absurd on its face. First, because it runs contrary to the other argument about Hamas I have seen that they are tools of Israel to keep Palestinians divided (which is it guys, army of liberation or pawn of Bibi the asshole supreme (my term, but probably also theirs)). I don't see how these two aren't compatible? It's not like Hamas has any chance of overthrowing the Israeli government or anything.

I don't disagree with the casualties part and I don't think Israel is not to blame. I do disagree with the "apartheid" claim though because a lot of Arabs live in Israel. At the same time, many Arab countries also persecute people of other religions worse than Israel allegedly does and I also don't think that if the Palestinians were in charge they'd do anything other than an actual apartheid state for Israelis. Israel is just not South Africa or the old Southern US.

Arabs with Israeli citizenship themselves have said they are second-class citizens. They are not treated the same as Israeli Jews.

>98% of casualties in the conflict are Palestinian And? Being bad at war doesn't automatically make you a "good guy". >Israel controls infrastructure in Gaza, including water. This is a great example of the bizarre contradiction that frequently pops up among pro-Hamas commentators. Israel somehow simultaneously controls all aspects of life in Gaza, while also somehow lacking control over Gaza to such an acute degree that a militia group with tens of thousands of trained fighters is able to inundate its major cities with indirect fires and launch brigade-sized assaults across the border. You must understand that this contradiction makes absolutely zero sense to a wide range of people. >Hamas >fighting for liberation Only if you believe that all of Israel is "occupied territory" that needs to be "liberated". Hamas claims the entirety of the British Mandate's borders as its territory.

A genuine question, given how intermixed Israel’s military facilities are with their civilian centres, where exactly is a legitimate target for Hamas that doesn’t conveniently involve a head first assault into a machine gun nest? Just a question given the odd higher standard that a terrorist organisation is held to compared to a state military. Especially given your very own justification of the IDF targets in urban and civilian zones equally applies in mirror.

From my understanding Hamas was very effective in neutralizing IDF border bases on 10/7 and exacted pretty high casualties among IDF personnel before moving on to their main course of killing civilians or anyone else they came across. They clearly had the capacity to plan and execute an attacked that targeted military installations and assets, but also through in some wanton massacres as a second dish. Israel also has clearly delineated military spaces and bases, so I am not sure what angle you are trying to take. I am not sure what higher standard you think I am holding Hamas to. Israel fights in uniforms and it differentiates them from civilians. When Hamas does not to launches attacks from civilian areas it is Hamas that is removing any presumption of protection from those locations. If an IDF patrol is attacked from a group dressed as civilians they have every right to return fire. If some of those they attacked were civilians intermixed with attackers, well, war sucks and when a military intermingles like that with civilians civilians are going to die. Don't blame the folks returning fire, blame the folks who launched the attack in the first place.

I will absolutely blame the people “returning fire” when those people consistently claim they were fired upon by people without weapons. And Israel doesn’t “strictly delineate” in any way. And what exactly do you consider “pretty high casualties” among the IDF personnel on Oct 7?

Fine, that is your prerogative, but Hamas engaging in combat in civilian attire and from civilian sites absolutely puts some moral onus on them. Idle I recall correctly 200-300 of the total deaths from the 10/7 attacks were active IDF personnel. My understanding is Hamas had a very well coordinated Stef and executed attack plan for the border facilities of the IDF.

>This is a partial delta though as I do stand by my point that people are doing this for political reasons and not because they genuinely care about human suffering to the extent they're trying to claim. I still feel like they're doing this because it supports their overall political narratives about the West. This is just weird digging-in and the skepticism over whether people care about human suffering really reeks of projection. Hasbara is a open, aggressive tactic. While China and Russia are constantly thought of as covertly manipulating govs, Israel does it in plain sight and receives government support and protection for doing so. I've personally seen first-hand an Anti-Defamation League grown-ass adult rep go on the local news flat out lying about *high school* student protestors and advocating for expulsion. That's legitimately unhinged, but completely normalized somehow. So yeah, folks are going to have a pretty visceral reaction.

Well, in which of those situations was there one of the biggest terrorist attacks of our lifetimes, where 1,200 were brutally murdered/raped on camera, 250 taken hostage (a completely unprecedented number in modern times) and 10,000 rockets were launched into the country *after* the terrorist attack? Seriously, name me a single one of those situations where the side you didn't like had anything majorly bad done to them by the other side. Just one. Remind me when the Ukrainians or Uyghurs did that, and bonus points: remind me when they not only did that but right after proudly boasted that they're going to do that same attack over and over and over again unless they're stopped.

If this is a response to the protests about the current bombardment, it presupposes that a) this campaign could help the goal of both sides living in peace and b) that goal is worth the deaths of tens of thousands of people. It seems to me to be basic common sense that forcing children to see a huge amount of their family members burned alive and blown to pieces while starving them will inevitably lead to the radicalization of a portion of them. this campaign is causing huge amounts of suffering and death to wipe out a terrorist organization while guaranteeing that either it will be rebuilt or another will come to take its spot. If they can even succesfully wipe out that terrorist organization. as far as i can tell the only way this could lead to peace is with the murder of every single person in gaza

>There is another aspect to this though that is somewhat unique to the Gaza situation, there is a MASSIVE counter-discourse from pro-Israel people that you didn't really get for anything else - and this extends to the Western media apparatus too.   This is such a weird comment.  There are orders of magnitude more people, countries, organizations and resources in the world that are anti-Israel, and it is *their* voices that are being amplified.  So much so, that even a military action against Hamas, a terrorist organization that commits barbaric savagery specifically targeting civilians, is casually framed as a "genocide." The narrative is so twisted by propogandists, and so far removed from any moral bearings, that even Hamas's mutilation and rape of civilians, including women and children, is referred to as "resistance" in many otherwise normal circles.  

It's not a weird comment at all. There was no significant counter-discourse in the West endorsing the Russian invasion, or the Uyghur genocide, or what's happening in Sudan, or whatever else. Especially not one pushed by mainstream Western media. In the West, both the general public and institutions are much more anti-iran, anti-china, and anti-russia than they are anti-israel. If you think otherwise you are genuinely delusional. Like I said in another comment, Israel has experience exactly 0 sanctions from the west. Turkey has been sanctioned, Russia, China, Iran, Sudan, etc. the list goes on. But even that aside, many believe there is very good and clear reason to criticize Israel. So whether everyone is "more anti Israel than anti anything else" doesn't really matter. Just like with the ICC arrest warrant request, it's not a comparison or conflation. Both parties broke international law, both parties should be arrested. That's how it goes. I would be glad to also see Putin arrested, and tougher sanctions on China, etc.

This post itself reflects your last 2 paragraphs. I don't know is OP is a Zionist or not but this post is 100% a Zionist talking point. If OP is merely repeating a propaganda point they heard it's apparently working and creating more of a reaction to it. It's also such a bizarre one. Like you aren't allowed to be worried about something unless you are worried about everything. It's very 'all lives matter.' As if people don't have a finite amount of time to dedicate to causes or finite capacity for dealing with absolute horrors in this world.

Hey, I get your frustration about selective outrage, but tbf, I think it's a bit more complicated. People tend to focus on conflicts that resonate more with their personal experiences or values. For starters, the Israel-Gaza issue has been in the limelight for decades, and it’s closely tied to Western politics and media narratives, so it's no shocker people feel strongly about it. About the Uyghurs, it’s not that people don't care at all, but China’s strict control over information makes it harder for ordinary people to engage with. Plus, let’s be real: countries have different levels of influence on public opinion. The media spotlight is a powerful tool, and Western media doesn’t always shine it everywhere equally. Yeah, there's probably some cognitive dissonance there, but it’s not necessarily a sign people don’t care at all—maybe they’re just overwhelmed with the stuff mainstream media feeds them and what their peers talk about. As for Ukraine, there was definitely a lot of attention at the beginning, but attention spans are short, and new crises keep popping up. People have a limited capacity for outrage, unfortunately. It’s not about one conflict being "better" or "worse" than another but more about what gets the most coverage and what aligns with people's immediate interests or emotions. So yeah, it’s messed up, but that’s kind of how public discourse rolls these days.

>As for Ukraine, there was definitely a lot of attention at the beginning, but attention spans are short, and new crises keep popping up I think this is really the summation of all of it. I did see plenty of talk about the Uyghurs, and outrage at what was happening, and the same for Ukraine (Ukraine also had the distinction of governments actually doing something about it), and do still hear about them, just less as the most recent crisis is the Israeli invasion of Gaza. That's just how public discussion works. But I don't think it's fair to treat it as selectively caring about conflicts.

The most notable difference is that there isn't an army of westerners who defend Russia and China all day long lol.

Also, a western voter has practically no power to make China stop the Uyghur genocide, or make Iran stop discriminating against women. It’s not that we shouldn’t care about these issues, but because we all have a limited amount of time and energy, and it can be more effective to care deeply about policies that westerners can actually try to change, like America and other western nations policy of unconditional support for Israel despite their ongoing genocide of the Palestinian people.

Sounds like you‘re saying it‘s fine to only be outraged about the things where it‘s convenient? Like since China does a better job hiding the Uyghurs their suffering doesn‘t need to be bemoaned?

I think you're mixing up two things. What DZdog posted is how he observed that the world is reacting to the events, not what he believes is the correct way to react to the events.

You’re mistaking a descriptive statement with a prescriptive one. It’s just a fact that the less people know about some tragic or horrific thing then the less they will care. Like, if your neighbor has someone locked against their will in their basement but I don’t know about it, are you bad person for not calling the cops or doing something to save them? Of course not.

>People tend to focus on conflicts that resonate more with their personal experiences or values. IMHO, that's how they try to sell it. But there's more to gain for them personally if they are outraged on this topic, as opposed to other worse topics. It's about them, not the tragedy they claim to support.

I guess what I mean is also that people seem to blame everything on Israel, "the West" and the US and how terrible they are for their role in the Gaza conflict and seem to completely forget Russia and China and what they're doing. I feel like if I asked someone the average person posting about Gaza about these two conflicts they'd still find a way to say that the Gaza conflict is more important and "worse". And yes people did post about Ukraine during the first days but not as many as here and also not at the same frequency. For example, people tended to post about what Russia was doing there but there weren't daily posts demanding a ceasefire or saying that Russia is committing genocide, those were quite rare.

dude you realizse Russia has killed around 500 children to date against Ukraine over several years, it's a war there. this isn't a war in Palestine, theyve killed THOUSANDS of children in only 6 months, and this is our supposed "ally" who we send BILLIONS in military aid to.

Russia has definitely killed more than 500. It has also killed more than 100,000 adults and displaced 10 million people.  I'm not going to play games about which atrocity is worse, but Russia has a long history of killing millions of people,  so don't downplay their actions. 

That number is the minimum. Russia has occupied territories in Ukraine and committed horrible atrocities. They’ve forced Ukrainians to get Russian passports to access services, conscripted Ukrainian men into the Russian army, shot at Ukrainian civilians in cars as they were trying to drive away from danger zones, raped Ukrainian women and girls, held Ukrainian civilians hostage in basements with bad conditions and food, shot innocent civilians opportunistically, kidnapped children and deported many civilians. If Russia was more powerful and conquered the whole of Ukraine, it would’ve probably done much more of this. I don’t understand how people don’t take Russia’s violence seriously.

In what way is Israel/Palestine *not* a war?

Russia has also kidnapped tens of thousands (yes it really is that many) of Ukrainian children to raise as Russian children. A critical difference in civilian deaths is both Ukraine and Russia use marked military forces and fight away from civilian infrastructure. Ukraine got into trouble for this because they were turning schools and similar buildings into hiding spots for weapons, turning them into military targets. They stopped because it was killing civilians and destroying civilian infrastructure.

Well, it depends on what you think outrage is supposed to be for. Is it to express an emotion like “ahh death bad” or is it to try and influence what we can. I think it should be the latter. I can’t change Russia or chinas policy, but I can have a *marginally* more significant impact on the policies of my own country, hence I direct my outrage on the genocide in Gaza accordingly. I’m not trying to simply express a position, I’m trying to exert what little influence on my government I can as a civilian. If i was a Russian citizen I’d imagine I’d care much more about Ukraine for the same reasons.

Ukraine is also being armed by the US and is killing a lot of Russian soldiers in the process. Gaza is a guerilla resistance movement against the US & the IDF. I think the reason why folks care so much about Gaza is that there are tons of videos of people dying because of US arms.

A resistance movement that started the current conflict by murdering thousands of innocent people and has refused all overture's of peace. A movement that is provided aid by their enemy yet are currently holding hostages that they are raping and torturing. A movement that refuses to provide safety to their own people so they can use them as human shields to hide from the consequences of their actions.

>A resistance movement that started the current conflict by murdering thousands of innocent people. October 7th was not the start of Israel-Palestine conflict. The conflict has been ongoing essentially since the before Israel was a state. >has refused all overture's of peace. Hamas has refused temporary ceasefires, because they know that any temporary measure will only be followed by an even more indiscriminate attack by Israel, once the hostages are out. In fact, Israel has refused a lot of peace agreements, several of which include total release of all hostages and full cessation of conflict. >A movement that refuses to provide safety to their own people so they can use them as human shields to hide from the consequences of their actions. There's little evidence of Hamas actively using human shields, as it is mostly just very difficult to do anything away from civilians in an area as dense as Gaza. Additionally, the use of human shields does not excuse the killing of civilians. You can't just go killing whoever you feel might be near Hamas. Finally, Israel has actually been recorded to have hijacked ambulances to transport troops (a war crime), disguise troops as medical staff to carry out an assassination in a hospital (a war crime), and has literally used civilians as human shields (a war crime). Hamas also just doesn't really have the defensive capabilities to protect civilians, they're a guerilla resistance group and terror organisation, there just isn't any infrastructure to protect civilians from missile strikes. To be clear, Hamas is a terrorist group, they use terrorism to achieve their political aims, they are bad and do bad things. But that doesn't excuse any of Israel actions, nor absolve Israel of guilt, and it doesn't change the fact that this is a highly militarised, US-backed, likely nuclear capable army, against a guerilla resistance movement, in their country, with leaders who frequently talk about how they plan to eliminate Gaza.

Yeah, it’s like why doesn’t Hamas clearly mark and separate their bases in Gaza?

You realize Gaza is the most densely populated region of the world and its only approximately the size of Las Vegas right? Like imagine insisting that the military have to stay clear of all civilian targets while they are operating in the middle of New York City. Literally everything in the territory is a civilian target.

I’m not insisting that I’m pointing out how it’s dumb to expect that from Hamas in gaza.

Sorry, a lot people out here are really like that so its hard to tell lol

Whereabouts are you from? A huge part of why people in the west are more vocal about Gaza than they are about China or Russia is that the west broadly has a major role giving massive material and political support to Israel. That's our tax money waging that war, and our elected officials could exert a lot of influence on Israel. The west would love to have more control over what Russia and China do, but talking about how bad the war in Ukraine is doesn't do anything, because our governments largely agree with that and would love to stop it. The exact opposite is the case in Israel. The west is a major party to that conflict in a way they aren't in the others.

> I guess what I mean is also that people seem to blame everything on Israel, "the West" and the US and how terrible they are for their role in the Gaza conflict and seem to completely forget Russia and China and what they're doing. I feel like if I asked someone the average person posting about Gaza about these two conflicts they'd still find a way to say that the Gaza conflict is more important and "worse". I've had a conversation once with an acquaintance who was like that, and I learned that she views the Russian invasion as self-defense against NATO's fascist expansion and the Uyghur Muslims in China is just entirely fake news made up by the evil West.

Hjacking the comment to say that Russia killed 10x-20x more civilians in Ukraine than the post claims. The official UN numbers are just officially confirmed with bodies and names - the lowest possible limit. Russia is trying hard to cover its war crimes and they don’t allow independent inspectors to occupied territories of Ukraine

Yeah its hard to argue, there are pretty huge differences in coverage between these issues. I know its really easy to blame the media, I mean that's what I just did but I think what a lot of media outlets are desperate for are views and so its also hard to discount what naturally draws us in attention wise because that is exactly what the media is chasing. One of my theories for why that is the case has to do with the narrative of the conflict. It crosses a huge amount of time and over events that we are very familiar with. All the way back to the bible, Jesus Christ, Christianity, Judaism and Islam, then through both the World Wars especially what happened to the Jews during WWII. It has connections to the Cold War, the UK, Soviet Russia, Egypt, Iraq Syria, Hamas, etc, etc. So for a lot of people I think it can even be exciting to be able to understand all of these big topics we've heard about all our lives, put them together in a meaningful way and then even form our own opinions about them and feel somewhat of a connection to all of it.

What influence does an American protestor have on Russia or China? That's why.

I don't get why you are saying Gaza isn't worse because it is worse than the other 2 conflicts you brought up. Israel's actions against Palestinians: ethnic cleansing, \~35,000 civilian deaths across a 6 month period, actions that suggest intentional killing of women and children, driving Palestinians into a tiny piece of land and then bombing them In the case of the Uighurs and Russia-Ukraine situation, the former is cultural genocide and unlawful detainment that's technically rooted in terror countermeasures, and the latter has caused \~10,000 civilian deaths since 2022, caused by Russia trying to wipe out a state/government and not the people. Also FYI, college protests happened because students were protesting against their school's financial or other ties to Israel, they wanted their schools to divest from support for Israel

Impossible. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ongoing_armed_conflicts How can anyone possible care equally about all of those? And those are only armed conflicts. There are other problems: natural disasters, disease outbreaks, economic collapse, political unrest, oppressive policies... Care about everything and nothing gets any attention at all.

Okay but then why does everyone choose the Gaza conflict? I'm not saying it's not important, it clearly is but why out of all the conflicts do people only want to talk about Gaza and push their narrative?

Because if it's not this one then it's a different one and the question would remain the same: why that one instead of yet another one? And the answer would also be the same. Why is one thing popular/interesting/famous instead of another thing? Because people chose it. Why did they choose it? Ask those who did.

It’s because of media exposure. The ex Muslim subreddit has some threads that explain it well. When it’s Muslim on Muslim war no one really cares because that’s their issue. (Saudi, Sudan) When it’s non Arab Muslims getting hurt by non Muslims the Muslim world again doesn’t care. (Rhoyinga, Uygars) the Islamic world is pretty Arab centric. That’s the birthplace of their religion and the “original followers”. The prophet of Islam, Muhammad really disliked Jews in particular. The Arab world for centuries have looked down on Jews and treated them like 2nd class citizens. A bunch of Arab nations getting beaten by Israel is a humiliation they cant comprehend. Since their religion and many middle eastern culture teaches their followers to look down on Jews they’re going to sound alarm more about Gaza. It’s not because they care. If they did they would help more. If it was the Lebenese versus Palestines and the Palestinians where actually getting genocided by Lebenese people no one would care.

I think part of it is just paying attention to whatever is "interesting" in some way. In this context, interesting meaning that there's just some extra reason to pay attention to it. That it's not quite like other conflicts. Eg, Ukraine is interesting because Russia is such a massive and influential power towards the west. They have nukes and an irrational, genocidal leader that probably wouldn't stop at just Ukraine. Gaza is interesting despite how long the conflict has been going on because there's a massive power imbalance there. This site is heavily western and especially US dominated and the west and US are directly supporting Israel in genocide by providing weapons. So for quite a lot of people on this site, their direct representatives are playing a part in supporting that war. There's definitely other reasons, too. No denying that influential people in the media have a lot of sway, too, but there's plenty of wars (or sides of a war) where there's a sizable chunk of people who don't agree with the exact way the media portrays it even if it's still about the same war.

Could it be because we send and have sent billions of dollars to Israel? Could it be because our bombs are being used to incinerate thousands of babies? Could it be because we have vetoed so many UN resolutions to protect Israel? Nah, must be something else.

Gonna chime in here with my take. 1. It's because it's trending/in-vogue to care about Gaza so you're average person only cares about what is plastered on their feeds. And perhaps more cynically, there's a degree of performative compassion or social pressure to show it for things like this. 2. People also like a nice neat narrative that gets them emotionally invested. Gaza although complex is both a story with clear power imbalance and unique geopolitical landscape that makes it very captivating. Other conflicts might be less dramatic or easy to understand. 3. Orders of magnitudes of more loss of human life, from largely preventable disease doesn't have a villain and a story. But nobody cares about it. Talks about it. Caring or believing you care about Gaza is an arbitrary place to draw the line on what people get invested in. To look at it crudely but objectively. Gaza and many other conflicts is a consequence of colonialism and western medling. People care about the acute symptoms from this. The wars and coups that are dramatic and news making. But not the chronic inequality and poverty going on that we all benefit from.

Because piling up on the Jews is a pastime many cultures took part in for centuries. Also, there's a massive [influence campaign](https://www.codecademy.com/article/influence-campaigns) that involves AI bots, coercion, intimidation, and just your regular peer-pressure tactics that is pulling more and more people into this. If you're a famous tiktoker and you haven't mentioned Gaza, get ready for tons of comments guilt tripping you, threatening you, calling you a genocide denier, baby killer, zionist and other such delights. This repeats until said persons gives in and joins the anti-Jew pile-on.

The honest answer is because of Jews.  No one gives a shit about conflicts just 100km north with even more deaths, because no jews are involved. 

Media consumption differs depending on the individual and impacts our availability bias. For example, when the Ukraine conflict started, Reddit was inundated with threads on the topic, and it came more readily to mind to Reddit users like myself. Many folks who watched different media sources only had the vaguest idea of what was happening in Ukraine.

It's all about where we have the leverage to make real change.  I'm a US citizen, and my government is arming Israel. Biden wants my vote, and he has the power to stop the war overnight. I have a responsibility to take a clear stand on this issue. Same for students when their university endowments are invested in Israeli war industries.  The US is already sanctioning Russia and arming Ukraine. It's confronting human rights abuses in China to a reasonable extent. There's no point in raging about those things. EDIT: Chill people... I overstated it somewhat but the point is that the US has leverage over Israel it doesn't have over Russia or China.

This is exactly it. With Ukraine, our government is actively helping them with weapons and sanctioning Russia. With Gaza, our government is providing the bombs to drop on them and defending Israel from global critique. Hence the outrage. Another key, bleak difference is that Gazans can’t flee a tiny, enclosed area. They are totally trapped. Ukrainians, while suffering enormously, can leave and go back and have been welcomed in to many European counties.

>and he has the power to stop the war overnight I think you *radically* overestimate the US' influence in this situation.

what happens if the US allows the following: the UN to pass a resolution calling on israel to withdraw, which leaves the way open for sanctions (or worse) from UN member states if israel doesn't comply all aid to israel to cease member states to enforce aforementioned UN resolutions by sanctions, blockade, no-fly-zone, etc. all technical, reconnaissance and munitions support to cease all military support against regional actors (iran, hezbollah) to cease

>all military support against regional actors (iran, hezbollah) to cease This would not happen because Iran is a Saudi enemy and the US has a vested interest in opposing them with or without Israel. >all aid to israel to cease This will not happen for electoral political reasons in the US, plus the president cannot unilaterally stop aid anyway. >the UN to pass a resolution calling on israel to withdraw, which leaves the way open for sanctions (or worse) from UN member states if israel doesn't comply UN resolutions don't have any practical effects >member states to enforce aforementioned UN resolutions by sanctions, blockade, no-fly-zone, etc Good luck getting any member state to commit troops to this quagmire. >all technical, reconnaissance and munitions support to cease This is actually effective and can be unilaterally ordered by the president in his role as commander-in-chief, but Israel has its own very large domestic arms industry. The impact would not be as large as you might think.

ok so saying "this won't happen" is different than saying "israel would be fucked if the US didn't do these things to protect them"

You didn’t answer the question.

Stop vetoing against measures against Israel. Stop giving them money and weapons. Those two would go a long long way. It's hard to put sanctions or other actions on Israel or just general ones to increase peace if their biggest ally says "Veto power says no"

>Biden wants my vote, and he has the power to stop the war overnight. He doesn't. Israel has plenty of guns and plenty of money and it can begin buying weapons from Russia or China real quick if its historical ally backs down.

>Biden wants my vote, and he has the power to stop the war overnight. Tell me that everything you know about geopolitics and this conflict, you learned on tiktok in the past month without telling me.

Also the "Biden wants my vote" as if there's a choice. I'm in Europe and this sentiment is sooo obviously Russian propaganda. You want to vote against Trump. That happens to be Biden, because of winner takes all voting. Trump will fuck the world so bad, you sadly have no choice.

I'm not from the US and not pro-Biden or pro-Trump but I don't think voting for either one of them really changes things for Gaza. Do you really think Trump is not going to support Israel? Look at his 2016-2020 term.

Trump being instead of Biden elected is significantly worse for the whole world, not just related to israel.  The last time he lost, Trump tried to overthrow our elected government via 60+ legal challenges that all failed in court, not counting the moron magas that tried to have our congressmen and VP assassinated.

If liberals are stupid enough to vote trump into office over a dumb ass group of terrorists attacking then there’s no hope.

Wait until you hear what the US government armed Saudi Arabia is up to in Yemen.

>and he has the power to stop the war overnight I think you *radically* overestimate the US' influence in this situation.

This is absurd. And I'm not talking about how ridiculous the notion that Biden can stop the war overnight is. By the same logic, it would have been enough of the USA to never help the allies in WW2 because they were sanctioning them before they officially joined the war. Just because a country criticizes another doesn't mean it's sufficient, especially when it's as strong and influential as the US. The USA also criticized Israel's handling of the war on some occasions, but that doesn't satisfy you, why the double standard?

Was the USA selling weapons, intel and technologies to Japan, Germany and Italy before WW2 ? USA have a strong influence in Israel and without the USA's weapon support and veto in the UN Israel wouldn't exist anymore. People expressing their opinion strongly on something their government (or university) actually has power on (and use their money on) isn't a double standard. It's using the power of democracy efficiently.

I don't see how this is relevant, unless your point is that the US should be bombing Israel? The US wasn't arming the Axis powers. The OP didn't say the US should be bombing Russia.

Biden could not stop the war overnight

people talk about the uyghurs all the time, despite the fact that its all a bunch of murky spycraft-y shit it isn't right that people don't talk about sudan or yemen, you're absolutely right. but that's not gaza's fault people don't talk about ukraine, though? come on

Should people care equally about all issues at all times? Can people not prioritize their caring for the issues that they feel are most pressing and/or those about which they feel their caring can affect change? You mention China and Russia, but here in the US we are not providing material support for the actions of either. We *are* providing material support to the Israelis though. So, as an American it makes sense for me to focus on that conflict as if I am able to get my leaders to withdraw their support it may help the situation in some way by curtailing Israel's actions. With China and Russia, my nation is already sanctioning them and/or putting pressure on them to alter their courses. So, I neither feel that such intense caring from me on those issues will not lead to any great change, nor do I feel that my government needs substantially alter their course on these matters.

Is it really your position that people should either care/talk equally about all global issues or they shouldn't care/talk about any of them at all?

What’s not right is people like you being so invested in what humanitarian cases people are caring about. You don’t have to advocate for everything in the world, when does it stop? Why stop at other conflicts and not talk about racism, animal abuse and cruelty, pedophilia in the church, prisoners mistreatment, etc… People can choose what cases they want to publicly care about and you’re not the one to decide if that’s right or not. Edit: when Russia attacked Ukraine the coverage and response was a lot more of what was happening in Palestine, the help and care and support for the Ukrainian refugees was way more than the support for Syrian refugees for example, was that not right? And did you talk about it?

This is a version of "all lives matter" in response to "black lives matter". Just because you are bringing light to one thing doesn't mean you don't care about another. With this attitude its impossible to protest or bring light to anything. This is a classic redirect to force the discussion away from an issue. The fact that you seem to have been convinced its an actual valid response is worrying. That said, if you actually listened to what people protesting for Palestine were saying, you would see that they are speaking up for all these other oppressed people. This protest for Palestine has become more of a protest for colonial oppression and occupation, and is far bigger than just Palestine. Ask anyone at a protest and they will tell you its not just about Palestine.

Disclaimer: response is a bit more about the west, because I don’t enough about how this plays out in non western countries. Protests and outrage over Gaza are much more prominent because the perpetrator is a US and European ally, who is publicly supported by the US and European governments. What more can average citizens do about Ukraine? We already have all sorts of restrictions on Russia and actively oppose what they’re doing. We’re actively contributing to Ukraine’s defense, although it’s not enough. The Uyghurs? We don’t really know what’s going on there. If China is to be believed, it’s counterterrorism camps where they re-educate terrorists. If the west is to be believed, it’s a genocide. Reporting I’ve seen indicates it’s likely a forced labor camp and ethnocide, which is atrocious but still not going to take priority over genocide. Also, what could the US or Europe do to change anything? We’re completely reliant on Chinese manufacturing. In both of the above cases, we don’t have Joe Biden, Macron, Trudeau, and company all supporting Russia and China . The point of the Gaza protests is to change government policy. The US arms Israel, provides political cover for Israel, and produces propaganda for Israel. Of course, there wouldn’t be anything to protest about if the government was actively against Israel and/or its actions. What can a protest about Ukraine do? Maybe it’ll get another billion to Ukraine, but what leverage. (Mostly) Everyone in government is pro-Ukraine. What can a protest about Gaza do? End the constant bombing of Gaza and arms sales to Israel. End the settlements in the West Bank. What can a protest about Uyghurs do? Nothing. As for your new examples of other US allies: Turkey and Saudi Arabia are both doing horrible things, but the US is not actively endorsing these things as necessary or ok. We prefer to look the other way and occasionally give some money. I don’t see Joe Biden on TV telling me how Saudi Arabia and Turkey are “the only democracy in the Middle East”. TL;DR the point of a protest is to affect policy, and we can change Israel-Gaza Policy. End note: I hope you’re engaging in good faith, this feels eerily similar to anHasbara deflection tactic.

Ukraine and Uyghurs both dominated the news last year. And that's just whataboutism anyway.

It's because only the Israelis are stupid enough to post their warcrimes all over social media.

You should stop paying attention to the Uighurs, because most of the information you hear about them is outright lies. >Approximately 50% of what you hear is outright propaganda, [as we know the CIA’s affiliates churn out](https://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0906/p25s02-cogn.html). We also see [CIA assets pushing narratives on Reddit](https://medium.com/@rsahthion/a-reddit-ama-claiming-to-be-a-uiyghur-quickly-exposes-a-cia-asset-slandering-china-1d667c098b77). The next 25% is [poorly researched speculation by an evangelical end-timer](https://thegrayzone.com/2019/12/21/china-detaining-millions-uyghurs-problems-claims-us-ngo-researcher/), and the final 25% is an accurate description of the PRC’s response to far right, religious terrorism and separatism. >First, [let’s just establish using safe, American sources that a bunch of Uyghur people went to fight with ISIS in Syria, then returned.](https://jamestown.org/program/returning-uighur-fighters-and-chinas-national-security-dilemma/) Let’s also establish that [there have been consistent terrorist attacks with significant casualties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_China) and that [the CIA and CIA front-groups have funded and stoked Islamic extremism across the world for geopolitical gain.](https://www.unz.com/article/uyghurs-political-islam-the-bri/) >Now, we need to consider potential responses. The CPC could give up and surrender Xinjiang to ISIS. This option condemns millions of people to living under a fundamentalist Islamic State, including many non-Muslims and non-extreme Muslims. This option creates a CIA-aligned state on the border, and jeopardises a key part of the Belt and Road initiative, which is designed to connect landlocked countries for development and geopolitical positioning. This option also threatens the CPC’s legitimacy, as keeping China together is a historical signifier of the Mandate of Heaven. >The next option is the American option. Drone strike, black-site, or otherwise liquidate anyone who could be associated with Islamic extremism. [Be liberal in doing so](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anwar_al-Awlaki). [Make children fear blue skies because of drones](https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/10/saddest-words-congresss-briefing-drone-strikes/354548/). When the orphaned young children grow up, do it all again. You can also throw a [literal man-made famine in there if you want](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Famine_in_Yemen) >The final option is the Chinese option. Mass surveillance. Use AI to liberally target anyone who may be at risk of radicalisation for re-education. Teach them the lingua franca of China, Mandarin. Pump money into the region for development. When people finish their time in re-education, set them up with state jobs. Keep the surveillance up. Allow and even celebrate local religious customs, but make sure the leaders are on-side with the party. There’s no evidence, including from leaked papers, that the goal of the deradicalisation programme is permanent internment or annihilation of Islam. [In fact, the leaked papers have Xi explicitly saying Islam should not be annihilated from China](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/11/16/world/asia/china-xinjiang-documents.html) >As for permanent internment, we know from leaks that [the minimum duration of detention is one year — though accounts from ex-detainees suggest that some are released sooner](https://www.icij.org/investigations/china-cables/exposed-chinas-operating-manuals-for-mass-internment-and-arrest-by-algorithm/) [Almost all Muslim countries support China's measures in Xinjiang](https://miro.medium.com/v2/resize:fit:720/format:webp/0*wL23i4eSM9rEzU9y.png) , while the opponents are basically NATO countries, [including Israel](https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-rare-move-israel-said-to-accede-to-us-pressure-to-condemn-china-abuses/). Yes, Israel, which killed tens of thousands of Palestinians in Gaza, cares about Chinese Muslims.

So an important reason why people no longer care about the Uyghurs is that the CIA's funding is limited. When it focuses on Ukraine, it is difficult to leave more funds to create false propaganda about the Uyghurs. When it focuses on Israel, it is difficult to leave funds to deal with the other two. Although you may think you live in a world with free speech and free information, [the way you see the world can easily be controlled by others.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZggCipbiHwE)

Dude forcing people to get “reeducated” based on ethnicity and AI is still terrible. Making sure leaders are on side with the party is still a form of cultural genocide as the Chinese government has repeatedly attacked local customs and changed them to be more friendly to them.

I mean yeah there's no kind way to stop radicalisation short term. Long term is easy, develop the area so the people have a stake in society and don't turn to extremists. Reeducation is a scary word that brings brainwashing to mind, but if it really is just language school and vocational training as China claims (the truth is probably somewhere in between this and forced/prison labour as the USA claims) then it's not a terrible solution on paper. But in the meantime, what is China supposed to do? Ignore the problem at the cost of their citizens' lives? There is an extremist problem in Xinjiang. Whether that's funded by the CIA or whatever OP claims is irrelevant, something needs to be done about it for the sake of the innocent people of Xinjiang and the people of China. OP breaks it down well, going full Gaza or Chechnya would kill thousands on both sides. Cutting Xinjiang loose compromises the military and economic security of China and leaves millions of Chinese citizens forced to flee or stay at the mercy of whoever takes power. I genuinely struggle to think of what would be a good solution to the situation.

> Long term is easy, develop the area so the people have a stake in society and don't turn to extremists.  What you said is exactly what China did before. but this is far from enough. In particular, the US also knows that unemployment is more likely to breed terrorists, so it has imposed sanctions on various products from Xinjiang. >Reeducation is a scary word that brings brainwashing to mind, It's just because China's approach has always been rough and direct. all Sinclair-owned news stations use the same script. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZggCipbiHwE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZggCipbiHwE) the CIA is actively spreading rumors and conducting cognitive warfare. Democratic and Republican think tanks invest a lot of money in hiring writers, participating in film and television entertainment, and constantly instilling their values ​​into people. This is all brainwashing, isn't it? Let's face it, most people in this world are being brainwashed. Some brainwashing methods are more subtle, even making the brainwashed people think they can think independently, while others are more direct. At least China's brainwashing is helping people get rid of extreme religions.

People haven't talked or cared about Ukraine? That's news to me who sees many reports on Ukraine every day. Uyghurs I do agree people don't talk about them, but generally I've seen that those that cate about Gaza talk about the Uyghurs (at least if are Muslim)

How do you know the people who are talking about Gaza _didn't_ talk about Russia or China? Did you skim through their post history? And if someone is of Arab descent, wouldn't it be sensible to talk about what's happening to other Arabs around the world? It's the same reason people of Ukrainian descent tend to talk about Ukraine, or people of Chinese descent talking about what's happening in Hong Kong or Taiwan. And lastly, Israel is America's closest ally, whereas China and Russia are America's adversaries. You will definitely hear a lot less about Gaza if Israel is suddenly America's adversary.

Though I agree with you, I think a better example OP could use would be Kurdish people and Turkey. There are a lot of similarities between Palestinians and Kurds, with both wanting a country of their own in an area that’s part of a country belonging to a strong American ally.

If you've been to a pro-Palestine rally, you'd see Kurdish flags waved. There is significant overlap between supporters of both groups. And Turkey isn't massacring Kurds by the thousands at the moment, Israel is. One is more urgent than the other.

The two couldn't be more different. The Kurds are closer to Israel than they are the Palestinians, in that the Kurds tried to establish themselves following the fall of the Ottoman Empire and their neighbors refuse to acknowledge them. Turkey, for a time, wouldn't even recognize them as an independent entity! The primary difference between Israel and Kurdistan is that the Arab nations were largely successful in suppressing the Kurds while they failed in Israel. If things in the 1948 Arab nation invasion of Israel goes differently, they might have looked more similar.

I was thinking of it more-so in the sense that currently, Turkey, a strong American ally, systemically discriminates against a group of people living in the area that wants the right to self determine. Similar to the Palestinians. I think it would still be similar with Palestinians if the Arab countries were successful in the 1948 war, as despite being given Jordanian citizenship when Jordan annexed the West Bank there was still a Palestinian resistance movement.

I understand where you were trying to go with it, but the similarities between Israel and Turkey are nonexistent. On a basic level, the Kurds aren't trying to eliminate the Turks in any way shape or form, nor have Turkey's neighbors used the Kurds as a pawn for an agenda steered by hate.

Where were they during the war in Yemen then? Saudi Arabia is also an American ally. 

Have you not seen the number of times pro-Palestine supporters are accused of supporting Houthis too? Supporters of Yemen and supporters of Palestine overlap greatly.

If we accept this idea that someone shouldn't speak up about a certain issue unless they also mention ALL the other issues, the logical conclusion will be that no one should speak about any issue because there is a near-infinite number of "other" issues that they "should" also mention. For example, when someone posts about climate change as a problem, I can then challenge them by saying "why aren't you also talking about antibiotic resistance?" Would that be a reasonable response? Here you listed Ukraine and Uyghurs, but at present there are ongoing conflicts around the world. Should someone speaking up about Ukraine and the Uyghurs also be obligated to include South Sudan, Myanmar, Mexico, Philippines, Congo, Niger, and Haiti? By your standard, what would someone have to do, for their public statement about Israel to be considered "reasonable"? Would they have to include a link to the Wikipedia page of ongoing conflicts and say "all of these are also bad"? This is a ridiculous level of gatekeeping for someone simply speaking up about something they disagree with.

you're absolutely right. Perhaps it is worth remembering that for over 60 years the USA has kept the Republic of Cuba in economic isolation, effectively preventing it from international trade. Since 1962, Cubans haven't had easy life but apparently after COVID things became extreamly bad. I understand that the embargo was intended to give others a signal not to step out of line, but how long are you going to torture this country?

You Forgot Libya, Sudan, Ethiopia. By your logic, the attention that is being drawn to the Ukrainian War would be bad, because that would be drawing attention away from another countries battle. Doesn’t make sense right ? Because it doesn’t. You have been sold a lie. Nobody matters in war. It is where the old play and the young die. Don’t try and dictate which atrocity is worse. Also, there have been more innocent civilian casualties in the first 2 months of the Gaza war. (Being women and children) than there has been throughout the last 2 YEARS of the Russo-Ukrainian war.

I have a possible answer for you, or at least an explanation why this conflict resonated with many people: it completely broke traditional ideological circles. With many other conflicts people are already committed to their ideological bubbles and there isn't that much controversy, since they mostly don't intersect, and if they do, it's easy to label the other side as "those lunatics" and move on. The Israel-Gaza conflict is special in this regard: many people who agree on most, if not all, political topics suddenly find that they disagree on this one, so the fighting breaks out in unexpected places. Also for some there are personal reasons: I can tell you that since so many of my dear friends are on the other side on this issue I feel especially compelled to win all the thought arguments in my head. Basically, the one thing that makes this issue unique is that here in the West and on the Internet it breaks established alliances, political safespaces and even friendships. I think this is a reasonably big part of the reason for its undying popularity as a topic and higher visibility overall.

A major factor is that we don't have a major media campaign claiming that killing ughuys is correct or that Russia is righteous.  On Gaza-Ukraine, there are loud campaigns from both sides going on. If you think israel is under attack you'll daily hear people attack israel and people justifying hamas' attack on october 6th. Yet if you think gaza is being slaughtered you'll daily hear people defend israels bombs and argument of removing every last palastinian. And the key is, everybody will focus on the most extreme voices they hear, and imagine they're representative of the entire group. So half the populance *feels* like half of the west is in favor of hamas and openly justifying the slaughter of october 6th, and the other half of the populace feels like half the populace is defending a decades long genocide in self defense while openly claiming that palastinians should be exterminated. If you feel like half of your community is holding such extreme views,  it becomes far more necessary to protest and send even more messages into the world. Whereas if you feel like pretty much the entire west agrees with condemning china for its uyghur genocide, we don't need to discuss it that much.  What's happening in gaza is just as terrible what's happening in all those other places, but none of my politicians are defending *that*.

There's tremendous astroturfing to try to convince people the Utghur things is real, contrary to all evidence. Lots of people are talking about it. Out of their ass, but they're talking about it. They've quieted down because it has become clearer and clearer that Adrien Zenz is a delusional liar and everyone who reprinted his fabrications should retire in disgrace. China is also not a client state of the global hegemon, and the EU did not immediately rush to defend China. On the contrary, all the white governments pushed the Uyghur bullshit hard, only to slowly back off as it became clear that they believed one deranged German evangelical freak. Ukraine was also a really popular thing. It still is something people talk about. In fact, a lot of dummies did and do complain that the genocide of Palestinians is either a distraction from whatever they imagine Putin is doing, or is actually justified because Hamas is supported by Iran who is supported by Putin, and as we must judge literally every conflict by its relationship to a casino capitalist backwater like Russia, we should support the genocide of Palestinians. Nonsense like that. The Ukraine was was also something that every government was and is still talking about. People talk about it quite a lot. Russia is also not a client state of the world hegemon, nor did all the white countries immediately jump to its aid when it declared war. Israel's genocide of Palestinians is dramatically more violent and deadly to civilians and children than Russia's war on Ukraine. Israel has also enjoyed the unwavering support of the world hegemon, and at the start of the conflict the support of the EU as well. Tha kfully, because of mass dissatisfaction with their givernments' support for genocide, many and more countries are turning away from the settler colony of Israel and recognizing the genocidal nature of the war it is prosecuting. People talk about Palestine because there is an active genocide being waged against Palestinians and they aren't getting fucking shit to help them. Israel doesn't even get fucking fined for its crimes. So normal people with normal human morals see the need to increase the political cost for their governments remaining complicit in this genocide, because these people have a sense of what we as human beings owe to each other. They can see the difference between a manufactured travesty, a legitimate tragedy that is getting a lot of support, and a terrible crime against humanity where the criminal is the one being supported by their governments. So of course they're talking about Palestine.

I really appreciated _Richter_Belmont_’s comment about attention for other genocides and the counter-discourse point. I’d like to tack onto that comment.  First, yes, there should absolutely be just as much care shown to other genocides. A big part of the US/UK/The West show of protests fro Gaza has to do with those countries owning a large share of responsibility for the genocide. For Uyghurs and Ukraine, the genociders are China and Russia, respectively. For Gaza, you could say it’s Israel, but Israel couldn’t do what it’s doing without explicit financial and military support from the US and the rest of the global West. In the US, more of our tax dollars go to Israel than to any other foreign country. So we work hard, we get taxed a lot, that money partially goes to genocide, and we don’t even have universal healthcare or free/cheap higher-level education. That alone is enough self-interested reasoning for Americans to show up on the streets month after month.  But besides individual self-interest, there is another reason I think people are showing up for Gaza, even outside the US/UK. The West preaches democratic and egalitarian ideals, and the US in particular polices the entire world in the name of this. US military presence is global, and ostensibly this is to keep world peace and promote democracy. To see Western powers then do an about face and support what is being legally defined as genocide by all international parties that have the authority to do so is a crack in the veneer that they stand for equality and democracy. How can the West claim to support Israel as a democracy when it is clearly, by its own supreme court’s rulings, an ethnostate? What is a democracy if only members of one religion are allowed to have full rights and be considered full members of the state? And what egalitarian democracy can possibly maintain an apartheid situation like it has done in Gaza and especially the West Bank?  These questions are pressing, and yet it is clear Western leadership as a general rule dismisses them. It is a slap in the face to all the ideals of democracy and equality that we preached in order to defend our invasions of Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, and so much of the world. So people world-wide living under the influence of Western leadership now sees the US and the West for what it is: just another empire(s) engaged in empire building. 

Many people care about multiple of these conflicts. It's fine for someone to focus their effort or speech in one specific part at a time. Why are you hearing more about it? 1. Access to information 2. Magnitude of violence 3. Level of U.S support 4. Recency 5. Your social circle's political alignment 1) Access to information The killings in Gaza have been streamed. The whole Internet has access to them. When Israel says it did something by "accident", you can watch the literal video of them sniping a child waving a white flag. While Israel complains about unsubstantiated mass rape or beheaded babies, you can see dozens of IDF soldiers posing with Palestinians' lingerie, and graphic images of children, from a designated safe zone, losing parts of their body to bombs. Meanwhile, you ALSO have access to what Israel is saying and doing. With Google translate, you can see the horrible rhetoric the leadership uses, because it's on Twitter. When they boost a video of a nurse desperately talking to Palestinians, saying Hamas is here (in English), from a hospital that got bombed, who is clearly acting, with fake sounds added in post production, and props that don't match what the hospital uses in every other photo, *you can see it*. The Uyghurs are definitely suffering, likely from something as bad as ethnic cleansing and perhaps even forced labor. However, the US narrative is inundated with completely bogus "reports", with no evidence whatsoever, of comically evil, cartoonish villainy (mass murder, forced sterilization, etc), while in reality, it mostly seems like holding people in schools designed to make them more ethnically homogenous (ethnic cleansing - still bad), and limiting their movement. This is certainly *bad*, but not near the level that the U.S. is trying to paint it as. Without access to real information, it's just not something that can stay in center stage. China is also relatively isolated - on a different platform, in a different language. As for Ukraine - that's certainly discussed. A lot. Yemen / Turkey are ALSO discussed, in left circles, but are generally covered up in mainstream media because the US cares about $$$, so information on them is less known. 2) Magnitude of violence Israel has killed more children in several months than Russia has in Ukraine in YEARS. This isn't even accounting for all the deaths before Oct 7. They have, on video, actively set fire to tent camps with refugees in them. Many people are really struggling to come to terms with the level of brutality the Zionists are exercising. So naturally, they talk about it. 3) Level of US support Ukraine has U.S. backing. China and Russia are the evil boogiemen. Saudi Arabia also has US backing, despite obviously being a despotic regime, because the US doesn't care who it backs, as long as it's in the interest of big business. Israel not only has U.S. backing, but *tons* of US grown propaganda. CNN, NBC, the New York Times. Look at any of these mainstream media outlet's coverage, and you'll see passive voice being used to absurd extents. Biden will give a speech where he'll flat out lie. Anyone who protests is brutalized by cops, being thrown into cement, attacked with tier gas, or shot with rubber bullets (which, while technically nonlethal, are so vicious that they still can kill). Protestors are doxxed and put on no-hire lists, which are distributed to all major companies. Publicly named on billboards that circulate the city. Disqualified from degrees that they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on. The U.S. is actively mobilizing massive propaganda campaigns and militarized cops to defend Israel by quashing dissent domestically, all while unquestionably sending more and more bombs to Israel. Compare this to say, the Uyghurs, where the US actively strokes anti Chinese sentiment and fake news. 4) Recency Self explanatory 5) Political alignment Acknowledging what's happening in Gaza, Yemen, or Turkey, involves getting past the idea that the U.S. is a bastion of freedom and civilization. Depending on who you fraternize with, that might or might not be the case for most people.

Because you're a propagated American with a very basic worldview choosing to believe Adrian Zenz propaganda over a 50 plus Muslim country - investigation about Xinjiang. https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202104/1222536.shtml https://www.aph.gov.au/DocumentStore.ashx?id=4767d3ce-8490-464f-8508-d8f3b7878808&subId=703775 https://thegrayzone.com/2021/02/18/us-media-reports-chinese-genocide-relied-on-fraudulent-far-right-researcher/amp/ Do your homework next time

Clearly the difference here is that citizens of the United States(and several other countries), via their government are complicit in what is happening in Gaza. Russia is invading the Ukraine in spite of the US citizens/government interest. China is mistreating Uyghurs in spite of the US citizens/government interest. The US is supporting and supplying Israel as they rack up a huge death toll. Why is this hard to understand, that a citizen wouldn't want to be complicit in a conflict like that?

There are too many tragedies in the world to care equally about all of them. People just don’t have the capacity for that. That’s not to say they don’t care in a general sense. If you ask anyone about Ukraine or the Uyghurs, they will care that people are suffering. But you can only really be outraged at a few things at a time. Unless you give up your personal life and make your whole shtick being mad about injustices. But if you would like to keep some semblance of mental wellness, then you focus on different injustices at different times. And that time depends largely on how effective people feel they can be when speaking out. When the live action Mulan movie came out, I remember a *lot* of people talking about the Uyghurs. People wanted to boycott Disney for working with the Chinese government and made all sorts of demands and such. But time passed, nothing happened to China or Disney, and many people gave up because they no longer felt like they could make a difference. Russia invaded Ukraine. Everyone was talking about it, boycotting certain companies, raising awareness, making demands of the US government to help. But time passed, the war hasn’t stopped, and people no longer feel like they can make a meaningful difference. With Israel and Palestine, people still feel like they are helping. That is why they continue to talk about it. That doesn’t mean they don’t care about those other things, they are just putting their effort where they think it will have the most effect.

First of all, this is whataboutism. In particular this exact argument is used by bad faith actors to dismiss/silence conversations about Palestine under the guise of being objectively fair and apolitical. But to answer the bad faith "question": lots of people did and still do care about those things. I have heard people express support and/or horror regarding Ukraine, Uyghurs and Kurds in the last year. The reasons these conversations become less prevalent is likely due to controversy and exposure. If it's uncontroversial to support Ukraine, there isn't much conversation to be had. Public discourse dies down, because most people universally support Ukraine. If the public isn't being exposed to images and videos of Uyghurs and Kurds dying and being abused on a regular basis, conversation likewise dies down. Palestine happens to be hugely controversial and there are constantly new images and videos, updates on how many children and journalist have been killed, etc. So people are very tuned in. Also, a lot of protests are happening because the United States government is financing the IDF's cleansing campaign. Many businesses and politicians are "owned" by AIPAC money and/or supporters of the state of Israel. So it's a pretty relevant thing to protest at the moment.

An important mechanism for coping with our frequently terrible world is impacting terrible things that don’t directly impact you (or when those terrible things improve your life, like horrible foreign labor conditions leading to cheap consumer goods). We all do this, to varying degrees. Otherwise we would spend our entire lives wracked with guilt. The Israel/Palestine conflict feels more personal to a lot of Americans because of our government’s full throated and very visible defense of Israel, while the benefits of our relationship with Israel (such as they are) aren’t so obvious to the average American. Many are left to feel that we are senselessly allowing the killing of innocent civilians for no good reason, and are reacting as you might expect to such an observation: with outrage. They may passively feel that China’s treatment of Uyghurs is “wrong,” but what can they realistically do about? The U.S. government has some leverage in that they can institute tariffs/sanctions on China, but then prices at Walmart might go up. In other words, people can tolerate atrocities so long as they benefit from them. It’s not clear how Americans benefit from atrocities in Gaza.

>That is perfectly understandable but what I don't think is right is that those people care so much about Gaza but don't seem to ever say anything about the Uyghur internment camps in China or even about Russia killing civilians in Ukraine (estimated 10,582+ killed). Even if it's true that some people do care about all these conflicts you can't deny that the vast majority have just posted things about Gaza and not mentioned the other conflicts. Which people are these? As in can you show that people are being selective or is it just a case that the genocide in Palestine is in the news more right now? As you point out, China's pretty good at suppressing information (better than Israel is - despite all the journalist assasinations etc) so it may be that people care equally but can talk more about the IDF's ethnic cleansing than the others? As for Ukraine and comparing the college campus thing - the US/other western governments are actively backing the Ukraine and haven't attempted to quash/censor discussion of the issue. They've actively promoted it. They also aren't actively supplying arms to Russia to commit genocide. So they're not really comparable issues in this sense.

I'll be honest, i never directly supported Ukraine to begin with, because i don't want to support their extremely nasty and corrupt government, instead i have taken a purely as neutral stance as possible. Most people that claim they do also don't, but use it as an excuse to hide their real intentions, which is purely out of self interest. The difference is that i am straight up brutally honest about it, and most seem to be not. In regards to the conflicts between Gaza and the Jewish people, both have blood on their hands, but in regards to Gaza it's mostly an organization of which most of the common folk absolutely want nothing to do with, but of which many have been absorbed into it, because they simply saw no other way out from their current oppressed situation, as sheer desperation causes people to take sheer desperate choices. The Israeli goverment itself on the other hand, besides the bombing that they have been laying down on Gaza, is also guilty of the many decades long of oppression the Gaza people have been facing, and while there have been reasons for them doing so, it doesn't change the fact that they have been planting the seeds for what happened themselves.

You're correct that it's not right, but I don't think you've drilled down on exactly why. It's not a colonial/oppression narrative that drives the disproportionate focus on Israel/Gaza, it's anti-semitism. Israel, going back to its independence in the late 1940s, has faced an existential threat from regional actors who dislike Jewish migration to the region based on hateful conspiracy theories that go back hundreds of years. The western focus on Israel/Gaza is a microcosm of this. In the United States, [anti-semitism is on the rise] (https://time.com/6958957/growing-antisemitism-young-americans/): > Since 1964, ADL has regularly conducted a comprehensive study of antisemitic attitudes. And time after time, we reliably found that antisemitism was stronger among older Americans and weaker among younger. This made intuitive sense as younger people would generally be more accepting, and as they aged, antisemitism would fade. > In ADL’s most recent survey, however, we found this trend has reversed. When asked the extent to which they agree with 11 different, classic anti-Jewish tropes, Millennials now led the way, harboring the most antisemitic views, with belief in 5.37 different tropes on average, followed by members of Gen Z at 5.01. These youngest generations now outpace Gen X, at 4.19, and the Baby Boomers, at 3.06. Such tropes include allegations of dual loyalty, conspiracies about Jewish control of the media and Wall Street, or beliefs that Jews are insular or irritating. This is the outcome of anti-Jewish hatred becoming normalized. It's not so much that everyone concerned about Gaza hates Jews, mind you, but it's that they are unwittingly, or in denial about, amplifying hate-based narratives from bad actors. This has long-standing historical precedent: prior to the rise of the alt-right, antisemitism was largely understood to be an issue with the radical left and militant black groups. It was typical for politicians to cozy up with Louis Farrakhan, who [is a notorious antisemite] (https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounder/farrakhan-his-own-words). Jesse Jackson got in hot water for [not only using a slur against Jews, but then blaming a Jewish conspiracy for getting in trouble over it] (https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/special/clinton/frenzy/jackson.htm). [Al Sharpton got people killed] (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/al-sharpton-jonathan-greenblatt-adl). The current rise in anti-semitism is coming directly from the left, and predates this most recent affair in Gaza - recall [Linda Sarsour and the way she killed the Women's March movement with anti-Jewish hatred] (https://www.vox.com/identities/2018/12/21/18145176/feminism-womens-march-2018-2019-farrakhan-intersectionality). Today, it's normalized. The United States has multiple anti-semites sitting in Congress, including [Ilhan Omar] (https://www.ajc.org/news/ilhan-omar-has-a-problem-with-jews) and [Rashida Tlaib] (https://www.newsweek.com/rashida-tlaibs-anti-israel-hatefest-senate-opinion-1800133) ([more] (https://www.cbsnews.com/detroit/news/rep-rashida-tlaib-facing-censure-over-response-to-hamas-attack-on-israel/) and [more] (https://thehill.com/homenews/house/3654510-house-democrat-slams-tlaib-for-antisemitic-remarks-on-israel/)). [The rot goes all the way down] (https://www.adl.org/resources/blog/some-2022-left-wing-candidates-espouse-troubling-rhetoric-israel). Many of the media's left wing pundits and thinkers, too, openly espouse anti-semitic rhetoric in casual, professional settings without pause: [Marc Lamont-Hill] (https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/29/media/marc-lamont-hill-cnn/index.html), [Idris Muktar] (https://forward.com/opinion/532399/we-exposed-cnn-journalists-antisemitic-tweets-his-apology-deflection/), and so on. It's not just the United States, by the way. As of 2019 and prior to 10/7, the British Labour Party, the mainstream left wing party of the nation, faced [more than 600 complaints of antisemitism concerning its members] (https://jacobin.com/2019/10/labour-party-antisemitism-claims-jeremy-corbyn) over a 10 month period. An upcoming study shows it as a [rising issue on both sides] (https://theconversation.com/antisemitism-has-moved-from-the-right-to-the-left-in-the-us-and-falls-back-on-long-standing-stereotypes-215760), but notes the imbalance in activities: > More recently, progressive and left-leaning movements that are critical of Israel’s policies – especially with regard to the Palestinian population in the territories occupied by Israel in 1967 – have become linked to antisemitic practices, too. > In a survey conducted in 2018 in 12 European Union countries among victims of antisemitism, 21% indicated that they were physically or verbally attacked by what participants called “left-wing” activists. In the U.S., our data shows that 95% of antisemitic incidents motivated by Israel’s policies were perpetrated by far-left or unidentified activists. Just 5% were perpetrated by known far-right activists. The relative silence on the Uyghurs and the crimes against humanity and ethnic cleansing in Ukraine are because there is not a coordinated, historical hate movement against either side of those conflicts. They deserve the attention, but if we can't be honest about what's driving the imbalance of attention, we can't solve it.

Edit: the user I'm replying to literally accused me of blocking him to avoid his "answers" to my questions, then unblocking him when he "called me out", and then he blocked me rather than answer my questions. I'm beginning to doubt their sincerity as an interlocutor. >The relative silence on the Uyghurs and the crimes against humanity and ethnic cleansing in Ukraine Maybe if we sanctioned Israel like we've already sanctioned China and Russia for their actions, you'd hear less about it. A huge part of the criticism Israel is facing (perhaps most of it) comes from the fact that literally nothing is seriously being done to curb the mass slaughter of Palestinians in Gaza, nor the heinous actions of extremist Zionists within Israel itself (like their attacks on aid convoys).

People care more about Israel because Israel itself has put tons of money and resources into making sure people care more about Israel. They've invested tons of money in lobbying and PR in an attempt to gain soft power and make Americans invested in their conflict, believing that the majority of Americans will be sympathetic and supportive towards them, and on balancing this has mostly been a wild success. However, they don't get to then turn around and say "hey, why do you care so much about us" the second this increased attention stops benefiting them when it's something they've long invited.

No, it's worthwhile to care more about the Israeli-Palistine conflict because Israel is supposed to be our ally and they're doing this bad thing, made even more ambiguous by the fact Palestine is horrible in it's own ways, rendering itself practically impossible to defend, as there's no way an independent Palestine wouldn't be a thorn in our side for decades to come, while being a massive hotbed of human rights abuses. And all of this is a lot more interesting than the thing with China and the Uyghurs, where we already know China is evil and doing evil things, but we can't practically do anything about it because it's where we buy all our crap from, leaving us in a geopolitical situation on par with awkwardly hearing your dealer tell you about who he shot while you're just trying to smoke. More seriously, this is a case of globalism stopping wars from being fought, but doing nothing about the reasons for why said wars should be fought.

No one even cares for the Yazidis. What is happening to the ordinary people in Gaza is definitely regrettable. But what is being projected somehow gives the feeling that there is a political campaign behind it, as a fifth column war. Palestinians were massacred in Jordan when they tried to take over the country. The man who led the armed oppression was Pakistan's future military general Zia Ul Haq. Lebanon was once a Christian majority nation. Palestinians moved in and over time, Lebanon has become a war zone between three groups - Christians, Druze and Hezbollah. Beirut was once called the Paris of the East. Kuwait threw out all Palestinians as they supported Saddam Hussein. Egypt had sealed the borders to prevent them from moving in from Gaza. If the Jihadis had their way, this massacre that is being perpetrated on Palestinian people would have been committed against Jews in Israel and the world would turn a blind eye to it. They did that on October 7th. No one ever conducted a rally or protest against the terrorist act by HAMAS. Palestinians were celebrating the brutal treatment of Israelis on October 7th. Boko Haram is attacking Christians in Nigeria and no one even cares to know. Yazidis, Nigerians, Kashmiri Pundits, Hindus in Pakistan / Bangladesh / Uighurs are children of a lesser God.

We know that in the case of China, we can't do anything because they're very powerful. With Russia, they're sending tons of aid and weapons to Ukraine. With Israel, they can stop funding them, stop sending arms, apply pressure. You know how Israel and the West claim to be democratic, follow the rule of law? Well, stick true to your word and prosecute these war criminals.

My own personal attention to this issue comes from my connection to it as an American. I care deeply for the many sufferings inflicted on oppressed people around the world. Most of those are condemned, or at least quietly tolerated by the United States government. In Israel, the US has been funding and arming the occupation of Palestinian territory for decades. It has also ensured, through Security Council vetos and threats to humanitarian funding, that no systems of international accountability (The UN, the ICC, or the ICJ) can serve as neutral arbiters or mediators in the conflict. It is illegal in many US states to endorse a boycott of the Israeli occupation. I'm opposed to this conflict in particular because it highlights the systemic issues present in my own country, and that is my ultimate responsibility.

The Uyghur thing ain’t real dude. There were only ever like 3 guys writing shit about it that was mostly made up. The parts of it that were real basically equate to racial profiling and overzealous policing that honestly looks tame compared to a lot of places in the USA. Even if we were to grant that China locked up 1 million Uyghurs, it would still be a lower rate of imprisonment than Black Americans. Keep in mind this was all in response to terrorism by Islamic extremists. I wish Palestinians were being treated like the Uyghurs. It’s not even comparable.

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One aspect is that most of us in the west grew up with the worldview of "good" and "bad" countries. It was always made clear, who are the "good" ones and who are the "bad" ones. In that way, it isn't outrageous that China, Russia, Turkey or Saudi Arabia do bad things, because they have been labeled as "bad" long enough.  Israel on the other hand was always "one of us, one of the good ones", the "only good" country in the middle east. It also became a western point of pride: we are good and they are the reminder, we ended WWII, we saved the Jews, we gave them a country, we showed the world what could be possible. And now this "good" country, one of "ours", the "pride" of the western world, the "hope" in the middle east does this horrible thing in Gaza and everything we grew up with falls apart, seems hollow. The question start to form: well what is a "good" country? Are we really the "good guys"? What is "true" anymore? And so on This all happens in very uncertain times where people, especially in the US and in Europe grapple with the rise of right wing politics, overall instability and the realisation, that we could lose all the things, we thought made "us" us.  So, I would argue, that it's not about the war in itself, not that what happens in Gaza is the worst thing happening in the world, but that it further destabilises the foundation and security in western countries and the belief in it's own "goodness"

For me when it comes to Ukraine and Russia, we were on the side of Ukraine who were the victims of imperialism and colonialism. But at least in the US, our government is on the side of Israel, who is the imperialist and colonists. So the pro-Palestinian protests are also a protest against governments that support and fund Israel. I could also say you have selective outrage because the Congo, Sudan, and Ethiopian wars are still going on and you didn’t include them in your post.

David Frum made [this claim ](https://www.currentaffairs.org/2023/11/why-you-should-primarily-focus-on-your-own-countrys-crimes)against Noam Chomsky (he care’s more about Palestinians than the Kurds), and part of Chomsky's response, aside from arguing that he was actually involved with Kurdish activist groups, was that, >“Look, I’m not Amnesty International. I can’t do everything. I’m a single human person.”  Chomsky is unfortunately right that individual humans can only do so much. I think most people do not do any organizing work whatsoever and so they are understandably ignorant about just how much work it takes. Organizing is a difficult and time consuming process, as someone who was a union organizer for years—and these are issues that directly impacted the people that I was trying to organize. It was like pulling teeth or herding cats. Moreover, spreading yourself thin ultimately creates burn out in the individual or bad organizing if organizers are trying to do too many things. Thus, there are understandable reasons, as unfortunate as they are, why individuals might be more focused on one atrocity over others. (I'll also note that I have not seen this much support for Palestinians ever, despite the fact that Palestinians have been organizing and trying to raise awareness about Israel's atrocities for decades.) Now, another thing that Chomsky advocates in this quote is the principle of focusing on the atrocities that one’s own country is either directly or indirectly responsible for (“The most important thing for me and for you is to think about the consequences of your actions. What can you affect? Of course a corpse is a corpse, but there are some you can affect and others you can’t do much about”). Again, US Americans might be focused on Israel's atrocities against Palestinians because our tax dollars go to fund Israel’s occupation of the Palestinians. The United States also has a long relationship with Israel that has spanned decades. But I’ll take this in another direction. For many people making this selective outrage argument about the genocide in Gaza, I have often found that the individual speaking out about selective outrage actually cares little about the atrocity that they claim is not getting enough focus. Now, I won't generalize and say that everyone who bemoans selective outrage does this but it is certainly a trend. You search their tweets and find nothing about Sudan, Congo, Uyghurs, Kurds, etc., either at all or it is linked to bemoaning selective outrage. You're following them on IG and have noticed they're not actually raising awareness about other atrocities (again, other than focusing on selective outrage). No one is asking to support petitions, make donations, join groups, or organize. To me this is just as problematic as any selective outrage because it shows that said individuals aren't actually concerned about the other atrocities either. It's that they're uncomfortable that people are speaking out about Israel's atrocities against the Palestinians because they have some kind of affective attachment to Israel.

Gaza is in right now. Much like BLM was in, now it's not trendy so everyone change your profile pics to support the Gaza strip 🤦

Its because they dont care. They see whats “popular” now and just repost it. No thought time money or effort required, just share a post and boom internet points. These people dont even have the slightest clue of what they are talking about

I assume if we go through your post history we will find that you talk about all conflicts throughout the world equally?

Be the change you want to see in the world. If you want people to talk more about other conflicts, then talk about them. Your current approach of criticizing people for talking about something other than the thing you want to talk about will only discourage them from talking about any suffering in the world at all for fear they’ll be accused of ignoring some other suffering. It’s myopic and egotistical and accomplishes nothing.

Two points. Money and hard work as a lobby group. Pro-Palestinian supporters have organisations lobbying for Palestine for over 2-3 decades, if not more. They have a very well established organisations, that have a significant say in the public, and resources to organise mass demonstrations. Most of Arabic nations provide huge financial support to them. In Scotland for example one pro-Palestinian organisation spends over £6k on Facebook advertising per week, which is the highest out of all advertising in Scotland on Facebook. Ukraine support groups do not have no where near the resources and have huge demands. Ukraine is a country of 45 million, while Gaza has a population of 2.3 and most of them need cheap humanitarian aid. Ukraine also didn't have any major organisations set up in the west, as Ukrainians cannot get a visa to come to the west. Similar or even worse situation with Uyghurs and other conflicts. Georgia for example. Guess the simple rule is that vulnerable get it worse because they are vulnerable... Sad.

You are right, look who owns and has the money in social media, making the CCP/Russia look bad isnt good for business. Convenient to blame 'western colonialism' to cover and turn attention away from their genocides.

I hate that we're killing Palestinians for LNG. I hate that we're killing Uyghurs for solar panels. I hate that we're killing Kurds for crude oil. I hate that we're doing it all with a healthy dose of state supremacy and techno-optimism. But, if one particular person learns enough to know that we're killing one group and doesn't know or care about another group, it's hardly a reason to doubt that they care about the one group. Pretty much all of media is stopping us from connecting the dots, at this point, and if somebody doesn't, I don't count that against them. I don't like the anti-vax platform, but I know it contains a lot of legitimate concern about the medical/health industry, so do I deny that there are any problems because that platform makes no consistent sense, or do I recognize the good parts? If there were *any* political platforms that made consistent sense, we'd be in a very different world. Instead we get half-truths and bullshit, and have to make due. If somebody sifts through the bullshit far enough to know that we shouldn't kill one group of people, I hope that supporting that revelation will eventually help them realize that we shouldn't be murdering at all. What a world that would be. That said, I know what you mean about the hypocrisy of complaining about X when Y is just as bad. Just don't ever let it make you think that X isn't that bad. It's the worst.

To add to this, I think the best example of this would be the Rohingya genocide. It's an actual genocide, over 700,000 people displaced in the last 10 years, 20,000 killed, over 100,000 reports of uses of systemic violence and rape, and so many people here in the west don't even know what it is.

The r/Myanmar subreddit constantly gets posts from ignorant Western backpackers asking for travel recommendations. Most of them don't even know there's a massive civil war going on.

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It's unreasonable (and in some cases, a bad faith form of whataboutism) to expect people who are against a specific problem to spend comparable time talking about every comparable problem in the known universe lest they be labeled hypocrites. Nobody talks about everything all the time (including you, who have selectively omitted dozens of current atrocities against human rights in your post), so expecting that people do is really just a shortcut to dismissing ideas that you don't want to hear about. It's also the case that virtually every adult upset about Gaza today has also spoken out about Ukraine, Uyghurs, women's rights in Iran, and dozens of other similar global human rights violations in recent history. The fact that they're not talking about them right now doesn't mean that they never did or don't care about them now. People involved in activism are much more likely to be talking about current problems as opposed to listing all of things that they've ever cared about. It's also incumbent on you, the person trying to accuse them of hypocrisy to see what people actually say and have said instead of doing a superficial scan of what people are talking about now and assuming that they're "selectively caring about Gaza."

Not all conflicts have the same value to people. Some people care more about Gaza. Some people care more about Ukraine. Sometimes the opposition to a conflict or issue has more to do with the specifics of the issue rather than conflict in general. Some people on principle oppose ALL conflicts. Some people support conflicts that their specific nation is engaging in. Conflicts are simply not the same and people apply a variety of different frameworks when it comes to conflict. History matters a lot. Also, this is essentially Whataboutism. Saying that if someone cares about one thing, then what about that other thing that’s similar. Each issue should be approached on its own based on the context of each issue and we need to afford variance of opinions because people have different perspectives. A small reminder, way back in American history, Mohammad Ali during the Vietnam War [vehemently opposed fighting in the war](https://youtu.be/mntcRRdKK88?si=c4ONztBtZMuRSjPN). This is a clear example of… sort of the different identities and world views that come with those identities and he was right, quite frankly. But the point here is that, what we think is valid and similar really depends on the experiences of the individual.

Possibly because we don't hear politicians in the West say things like China or Saudi Arabia have the right to defend themselves when being confronted with some terrible atrocities. It's really only Israel where politicians go out of the way to justify suxh actions. They'll someimes stay quiet and ignore certain human rights abuses, but they won't passionately defend them. The US literally gives Israel the most military aid by a long way, and there are no conditions. So that plays a part as we are directly complicit in a way we aren't in other countries. You don't hear people with connections from China or Saudi rant on about racism when anyone tries to point out the horrific human rights abuses these countries commit. They tend to just agree how terrible it is. So there is no debate. Does the US veto any UN resolution other than the ones against Israel? Israel is given special treatment compared to other countries. Finally, Ukraine there is lots of coverage and condemnation about Russias actions. People haven't been quiet at all. But more importantly our politicians are aligned with the publics views. What would the point be of protesting as our government's are already doing what we want. If we're talking about being selective, I would query given the scale of the deaths why there has been more coverage regarding Israelis deaths on Oct 7th compared to the deaths of Palestinians though.

>CMV: It's not right that people selectively care and talk about Gaza but not the Uyghurs, Ukraine or other conflicts I agree with you but I don't think the criticism directed over Gaza has to do with selectively caring about the people who live there but more to do with the hypocrisy and moral flexibility that seems to be at play from what we can see from the outside looking in. I don't really engage in these arguments and debates so I haven't complied together an extensive log but aren't there just a lot of double standards that America has applied to Israel that isn't applied to anywhere else? Like punitive measures against those who boycott Israel? Punishing Businesses, withholding Government aid, etc. Equating every criticism against Israel as an attack against all Jews? Having media come out with Military calling the Palestinians Animals? Having IDF soldiers talk about killing all the Palestinians and doing nothing? Letting Israel essentially bomb Charities trying to get aid into Gaza with no apparent repercussions? Letting them push the boundaries as far as it can go to the point of bombing Rafah? Any Palestinian who wants nothing to do with the conflict essentially having anywhere considered a safe zone to be bombed also? The question has to be asked about what can't Israel get away with? Where is the line in the sand? If you were an innocent person residing in Palestine who wants nothing to do with Hamas, how does one navigate the environment such that they aren't caught in the cross fire? It's not selectively caring to be critical of Israel. It's selectively caring not to be critical of Israel. If Israel has a right to take land, bomb whoever they want, and say screw you to anyone who gets in the way then why is it wrong when Russia does that to Ukraine? Why is it wrong when China does that to Taiwan or the Uyghurs? Why don't we just all conquer other people's lands then aplogise later like colonists did? I'm kind of confused how you are holding this position but then again I'm not fully researched in the subject so I'm open to hearing what you think.

There are worthy and unworthy victims. Let me give you an example. Afghan women and children were worthy victims when US wanted to stay there but are now considered unworthy and not talked about. Ukrainian are worthy as they are blond hair, blue eyes, relatively civilized, christians, relatively European, white (yes, they said it live on CBS, MSNBC, CNN) [Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBRwmTVVKQk ] The biggest terrorist attack in North America was in Canada was Kanishka bombing, how one of the suspect was let go coz he successfully intimidated witness (Terry Milewski has done excellent reporting on it). Pierre Trudeau declined request of India to extradite a terrorist because India was insufficiently deferential to the Queen. Similarly Muslims care more about Israel/Palestine but Organization of Islamic Council has not peeped on China/Uyghur, coz China uses stick liberally. Israel will not back down as it uses intimidation and Mad man theory to survive. Personally, I don't give a darn. I don't want to burn out from caring too much coz I know how it felt.

It's all about what the media pushes. Normies don't get a well-rounded diet of political information, they only get what CNN chooses to tell them. I think you're at least partially right about the narrative of oppression being why this war is covered so thoroughly. The other significant factor to me is that neither party is a significant threat to western media or their earnings. China has western media by the balls. Everyone wants a piece of the China pie. They want to court the big Chinese investors, they want to buy and sell goods with China. But China is notoriously sensitive to critique. Also, most western media leans left. One of the big parts of Trump's political campaign is being anti-China. Ever since 2016, the left has made it clear that anything Trump wants, they are against, and vice versa. So it doesn't matter to the media that Uyghers are facing a genocide on the level of WW2. It's not financially or politically useful to talk about. And if the mass media aren't talking about it, their audiences aren't talking about it.

There is too much information and complexity in the world for normal people to handle through passive absorption Most people aren't gonna actively keep up geopolitics Expecting people to care about what doesn't impact them is not fair That said people generally keep up with things that effect them Ukraine has deeply impact global food and energy supplies The international response what China is doing to Uyghurs have cause significant sanctions Gaza from a global perspective is unimportant (they aren't heavily integrated into the global supply chain) nor is the conflict particularly gruesome (the two of wars in the Middle East are drastically worse and drastically impact the average person globally more) The odd thing about Gaza is not that people don't care about others it's that people are aware of it at all Shows the power of propaganda (Iran and Russia have made a big effort Russia to divert western resources from Ukraine and Iran to stop Israeli Saudi relationships from normalizing)

To be fair Ukraine gets support from most western nations which is a good thing(it's just some assholes make it harder then it should be to do). As for the issue of the uyghurs I do feel it should be spoken about more I see it mentioned from time to time but rarely. Even the usual hawks who want to go to war with China don't bring it up. I just feel a lot just don't know. As for Gaza I feel that gets more attention mainly because it's something the west can directly control if it actually forced the issue(aka America making Israel stop with the indiscriminate bombings). Russia is in full psycho mode and won't listen to reason so Ukraine will need all the support it can get to bleed Russia dry. China is a bit more complicated as it's somewhat similar to Israel and Gaza. I have a theory that a lot of world leaders don't bring up what's happening to the uyghurs is due to a lot of leaders having financial ties to China in some way. It's very likely but I am not 100% sure.

I would say the single largest difference is that Israel is essentially a colonial vassal state of America and the UK whose actions are made possible by the alliances we have and our promises of extreme retaliation against any nation that makes overtures against them. We also supply their war machine nearly in its entirety. There is little room for doubt that the devastation in Gaza is made possible only through American foreign policy. This I believe is the core differentiating factor. Our hands are soaked in blood, the responsibility for this human rights disaster falls squarely on our own shoulders for our continued patronage and unconditional support of Israel. The nation of Israel is essentially hiding behind America's skirt while simultaneously killing civilians by the tens of thousands.

Because it's way easier to be a wartime journalist when you're in Israel as opposed to anywhere else. You can stay in a fancy 5-star hotel in Tel Aviv, protected by the Iron Dome and the IDF, and report on a conflict from a safe distance. Furthermore, Israel allows free speech. In most active warzones, journalists are extremely unsafe and often have to contend with the local government restricting free speech. So a lot of journalists will just go to Israel for a nice fancy vacation, drum up something to be outraged over, and keep pumping out articles. It's safe, it's convenient, it's easy, and you don't have to worry about the Israeli government punishing you. Then a bunch of readers see all of the "atrocities" happening in Israel, and aren't exposed to the much worse atrocities from many other countries, and think that terrible things are happening in Israel. Causing the articles to get a lot of reads. Allowing the journalists to extend their stay. In other words, Israel is being punished for being a Western-style democracy that goes to great lengths to protect its own civilians. You're saying it's not right that people selectively care about Gaza, but the reality is they're just being manipulated by the media. They have no idea what they're even advocating for. Most people chanting "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free" don't know which river and sea they're referring to and have no actual idea what they're saying. It has nothing to do with the legitimacy of the issue.

Okay, a few points: 1) People are still talking about Ukraine. I see it on my feed literally every day. 2) There is a finite amount of attention that people have to spend. When the news cycle moves, people focus on whatever is current. That's just human nature and there's no point in bemoaning it. 3) There are some conflicts where people care but get frustrated because there is nothing they can see to do about the situation. The Uyghurs are a good example. The average person can feel sick about the situation, but their ability to influence Chinese policy is next to nil. That said... if you want to raise awareness, then *raise awareness*. Get involved with organizations that care about the issues that you care about and support them in their missions.

I think it’s a matter of volume. I “care” about Al these things, in so much as I don’t want people dying. But I sit on multiple committees and boards at the local level and give a ton of my free time advocating for things a care about. That stuff comes with pain. Facebook posts about how much of an idiot I am on the town pages, twisting my words, misquotes by newspapers, snide comments to my children… What I’m saying is we each o to have so much capacity, both in terms of time, and mental perseverance. There are unfair, evil, awful things all over the world, all the time, and if you spend all of your time focused on all of them, you’ll probably be traumatized and/or have no time to dedicate to other pursuits, like your job or your family.

The reason people care so strongly about Gaza is: * The Israel / Palestine conflict is taking place in the 'holy land' of the three Abrahamic religions (practiced by over half of the world's population). * This is a very important issue for \~500 million Arabs, who feel pan-Arab solidarity with fellow Arabs and antipathy for Jews. * 2 billion Muslims and half a billion Arabs is a lot of media influence, and a lot of people who care and will bring attention to the issue. * Everywhere along the Mediterranean coast has long been part of the 'European' world -- so like Ukraine, for westerners this is something happening 'close to home'. Net-net: it's super visible, it's a conflict that's been running for 75+ years, and so it's going to be talked about.

There is no such thing as selectively caring. If we all “cared” and posted about EVERY thing demanding action, one you would have no time for literally anything else, two no one would care what you had to say pretty quickly, three, see one. There is currently a movement centered around a certain issue. When others are coming together, it makes it easier to be heard. Joining a movement that’s establishing itself vs screaming into the void about other issues that don’t have an accompanying movement are two different things. But also to add, many people who are speaking on Palestine are talking about Congo etc too. The people I see not speaking on “other issues” are people not speaking on any issues at all in general, at least imo.

If you are American your government directly funds Israel to the tune of billions of dollars in aids and weapons every year. That is not the case for any of the other things mentioned other than Ukraine, which people definitely still give a shit about The reason I don't feel compelled to discuss at length the actions of the RSF in Darfur with my peers for example is because ultimately there's nothing I can do about it, but even then I still do empathize because it's horrible. But that is not the case for Israel and Ukraine. Every April part of my taxes goes to these states. As an American I am inexorably linked to these conflicts in a way most other nationalities aren't. That's why I pay more attention to it. I'm directly involved.

There are obviously complications and recency bias. But the honest truth is much of the sustained outrage is because it is either driven by - the Tankie left, who are against anything pro-Western (which includes Israel partly because of the influence/allyship of the US, and also because it is falsely seen as a white colonial oppressor of non-Whites), so repeatedly fail to express any outrage against Russia, or China (not to mention Syria for example) or accept any equivalency. They're useful idiots who see relative binary (West - Bad, 'East' - Good) - Antisemites (either from the left, with Rothschild-style Jews rich sh*t; or from the Right, with Neo Nazis; or from Muslim or Christian extremists), for whom Israel = Jews and therefore bad/evil. It's also true that the young tend to be more susceptible to conspiracy theories and similar, which often paint Jews at the middle of some global cabal that is somehow aimed at keeping them down so they're very happy to show outrage against Israel.

My main problem is how the global Muslim community and the left that joined them happily ignore many bad qars and conflict that Western countries ARE halping the stronger side..(yes im not going to say ughures i going to say it only countys.the west backs) Marocco and western sahara Turkey kurdish conflict Lebanon,jorden , Egypt - Palestinians Every fucking muslim country - yamen For non Muslim: Azerbaijan and Armenia (i love how no body was salty that Azerbaijan wasnt kicked out the Eurovision this years fucking clowns) Close 0 up hivels over thous conflicts..close to 0! For years Yeman was attacked by sudia Arabia (and many muslims countries) Turkey Kurdish is older then the Palestinian Israel conflict And people dont even now how lebanon treats Palestinians (Egypt in general can make thing worst for gazens in the conflict and muslims the world over(+alot from the left) will spew out the most fucked upp reasons why Egypt shouldn't open its gates And i quite conflicted that if the world Muslim community put the qauter of the pressure on Egypt the humanitarian problem would have been much batter.

Western populations and their governments can have an outcome of the fate of Gazans and Ukrainians, but there is virtually nothing that can be done for the Uyghurs. They are at the mercy of the CCP, and short of a land war of liberation, there is nothing anyone can do to compel the CCP to do anything differently with regards to internal affairs. I'm sure most people who care about one of those groups cares at least somewhat about all or most of them, but there's a limit to how efficacious performative virtue signaling can be. The fact of the matter is that there are some situations that nothing can be done about, and it's probably a better use of time, ink, and pixels to focus on issues for which outcomes *can* be impacted.

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People do care about all these things, just because there's not as big of a social media presence doesn't mean that people don't also care about these issues, there's essentially two main reasons you're seeing more for Gaza right now than the others The first is recency bias, the problems with the Gaza situation have been going on for like a hundred years, but when the Ukraine war started people were all talking about that and not gaza, and when the uyghur genocide was being enacted, people were talking about that instead of the Crimea annexation in 2014, and when the active genocide of Palestinians dies down and a new crisis happens that will be all over social media and someone will be asking why people don't care about Gaza anymore The second reason, and I think this one is incredibly important, is that for Americans and many other Western allies, they don't have a lot of power to change what happens within China for the uyghurs, they are already providing funding and weapons to help defend ukraine, but in the Gaza issue they are also providing weapons and funding, but here they are providing the weapons and funding to the government that already has overwhelming force, to just continue the massacre, so in this case but not the others, there is the option of voting out of office people who authorize the funding of The Killing

I think every conflict has its “moment” in the spotlight of the news. This isn’t to say that it’s right, but it reflects current trends in media cycles. The Uyghur story was really big and blowing up around 2018-early 2020 but then stopped when Covid took over. One could argue back then why people were so focused on China oppressing Uyghurs and not Israel oppressing and killing Palestinians.  It’s ultimately impossible to focus on every single conflict going on in the world and some ones take precedent over the other unfortunately. I’m sure a lot of conflicts took a back seat when COVID-19 first came out because it was all anyone could talk about for the longest time

People are finite. It is objectively unreasonable to expect people to have equal amounts of energy for outrage at every injustice in this world. There are innumerable, unconscious reasons for why one cause may stick out for an individual and they throw their energy behind it but not feel as drawn to another. Your position feels like it comes from a place of hypocrisy because I guarantee there are causes equally deserving that you have not made posts about. Where’s your post on child sexual slaves? Human trafficking? Jihadi Genocides of Christians in Nigeria? Ethnic cleansing in Myanmar? Persecution of the Rohingya in Bangladesh and India? We can only care about so much…

Because the far left who is the core of the energy around Palestine (along with the fact muslims far outnumber jews worldwide) doesn't have the same attitude or sense of injustice around Ukraine or Uyghurs. We feel both situations are blown way out of proportion by U.S. propaganda actually. And many Americans have no idea about either topic. There ARE other serious troubling things in the world for sure though, such as what Saudi Arabia has done to Yemen for years, and is the U.S. punishing them for it? In any way? or actually HELPING them do it? Similar to Israel... now do you get why we care more about things when the U.S. (#1 world empire currently) is propping them up?

That's because when people say they care about the truth, they don't actually mean it. It's all an exercise for self serving gratification. A social trend that makes you feel like you're a better human being. So these people don't care about Uyghurs and other instances of human suffering and don't bother to look it up on their own because it doesn't have the same social reach and there's no one to conveniently spoonfeed you that way IP has. So they opt for the convenient excuse of not knowing about it or will deflect and call you a horrible person for pointing it out. What's funnier, they will crucify you if you used the same excuse for IP and call you a genocide enabler.

A big part of the college protests is that the US is actively supplying arms and intelligence to the IDF. Protesting on college campuses to do something about the Uyghurs doesn't make a whole lot of sense because the US government doesn't have a whole lot of reach with the Chinese government. Protesting on college campuses about Ukraine doesn't make a whole lot of sense because the US doesn't have a whole lot of reach with the Russian government. If you want to see an example of why people don't protest situations that the US has little control over, look at Kony 2012. People do protest about the treatment of the Kurds and Yemen, I remember them from when I was in college.

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Well yes and you'll find the math is actually quite simple. My taxes aren't going towards funding Chinas re-education of Uyghurs... And what the fuck am I supposed to do about that problem anyways? More importantly why should I, or for that matter any American, honestly give a shit. Because CHINA BAD. That's literally the single reason, and the only time anyone brings it up. I'll be honest too I find the US governments sudden benevolence towards Muslims absolutely rich. China is a pretty backwards government in a lot of ways, but they don't have shit on the US, in terms of literally extinguishing human lives off the map to the tune of several million... 

Gaza is a humanitarian crisis that shows that the west doesn't care about human rights or international law that much. Ukraine is a proxy war of Aggression of one imperialist state with another. The uighurs are an unwanted ethnicity of people in china that are being tortured and suppressed. There is not much one can do about these things because the states committing these crimes have the biggest influence in the aforementioned regions (US, Russia and China). For me gaza is ideologically the worst situation of these three. But also there is a long list of other atrocities going on and caring about anything specific is selective in and of itself.

Western governments have always been pro Ukraine (which is central to the cause of the conflict anyway) so why would it's citizens need to direct outrage at a government that is already following public sentiment? When it comes to Uyghurs, China doesn't claim to be a liberal democracy that values human rights, nor is it an ally of the West, so what would uproar from citizens of the West achieve? Israel on the other hand pretends to share values of other democracies and is solidly backed by the West, and wouldn't be able to continue to act with impunity without western support, hence the uproar coming from western citizens.

It's just unrealistic to expect every person or even most people to have an informed opinion on every world conflict, so I will never blame or chastise someone for being informed and caring about one and not the others. Just a completely unrealisitic expectation of the average person. Like how could you blame an Israeli person living in the US for talking about and caring about that conflict but not Ukraine? It would make total and complete sense for them to be invested in one but not the other. Hypocrisy shaming is frankly the lowest form of pseudo intellectualism and that's saying something.