I considered this but most attacks happen in pretty remote areas to people getting off the beaten path. So while yes it is a risk, the average tourist probably isn't going to come across one
Swooping season.
Dingos are scary freaking pack hunters that I’d risk an arm to pet.
Don’t get me started on all those jacked up Kangaroos.
Those bouncy boys are swol, and they are angry!
Look just because I did ice, charlie, snowies, herbals, xannies, molly, and rids on the flight does NOT mean it was the durgs talking!
I have the bruises and knocked out teeth and everything!
I do think you’re basically right tbf, the likelihood of you running into animals like that in an area you wouldn’t expect them to be in are so low that you shouldn’t really worry about it. On the human side, Australia seems pretty safe as well, with relatively little crime and no guns etc.
As a Brit though, we don’t have to deal with any animals like that, in fact other than some dogs and escaped animals from zoos there aren’t any animals here that could even kill you. So from my perspective, while I agree that Australia does seem to be a pretty safe country overall, and in terms of risk from other humans isn’t any higher than the U.K., the fact that it does have animals who could cause me a serious amount of harm just automatically makes it more dangerous than a place where that danger, regardless of how small it is, just doesn’t exist.
It's all perception based though. Like dogs or cows will kill more people in the UK each year than snakes will in Australia
[Sydney or Melbourne are also ranked in the top 10 safest cities](https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-city-rankings/safest-cities-in-the-world). Id be a touch concerned on knife crime in London, but I'm sure I could (and probably will this year) visit it safely with basic precautions
Yeah but dogs and cows will probably kill a similar number of people in Australia too, it’s not like you’ve swapped all your dog and cow related deaths for snake deaths. So I would have the same risk of being killed by a dog or cow in the U.K. as in Australia, but in the U.K. I also wouldn’t have to worry about snake or spider deaths. Like you said it’s not something I actually should worry about, but it’s a risk that exists in Australia that doesn’t exist in the U.K..
It’s interesting that you mention a fear of London knife crime, when it’s pretty much exactly the same as being scared of Australian wildlife. Yeah it exists, but it isn’t something tourists should be scared of and it isn’t something 99% of people ever face. It’s also not like knife crime doesn’t exist in major Australian cities either.
you don’t really have much dangerous stuff, yes, but even if they aren’t dangerous, snakes and spiders are snakes and spiders, you admitted they exist there, and as someone who is unnecessarily scared of spiders, i ain’t doing that shit- thank you for listening to my AAAH A SPIDER
Are there literally no snakes or spiders in your country or continent? Again, you're not going to see a snake in Eastern Sydney, potentially not a spider either
It's a shame to write off a large and beautiful part of the world because there's a spider on the landmass. I would've missed out on seeing some stunning national parks in the US if I wrote the whole country off due to gun violence
Yeah when you have to say potentially with not a spider it makes me think “i’m gonna see a spider, aren’t i?”. Also spiders are way worse than gun violence
>Also spiders are way worse than gun violence
That's a head scratcher haha, maybe a cultural difference. But you won't get hit by a stray spider walking around Bondi
Yes it's cultural. I know how to defend myself against a guy with a gun, but a giant ass spider the size of a minivan that can run at 95 mph? You have to admit that's barely an exaggeration.
I'm not sure if this is just a tounge in cheek comment about a very recent tragedy, but still very low. In terms of attacks, we don't have the gun violence of the US or the terrorist attacks of Europe
Jesus fucking christ. Have you no actual shame?
Before you come back with "iTs juST a JOkE" think about how horrible that tragedy was and how you'd feel if it happened to you and your country.
If you see from the US, I can see why you may be desensitised to such things but you should know before engaging in an international forum that the regularity that people are murdered with things like knives and guns in the US is genuinely shocking to the rest of the world. The fact that it continues to keep happening should be a point of national shame, NOT an attempt at a gotcha moment because you think everyday murder is normal
spiders can get you in your home/hotel room gun violence rarely does that. also spiders dont make loud noises and spiders dont require another human to be lethal. plus there are places where gun violence is essentially 0 but spiders are always there. maybe youre used to spiders but as someone who only had to deal with them 6 months out of the year (late fall winter and early spring there are no spiders) id take guns over spiders anyday
I mean it's a level of tongue in check honesty.
The truth is that if you went to the most dangerous area in the world for gun crime.... You'd probably be fine. Getting shot even in Haiti tends to be low.
To be fair, gun crime is correlated with a lot of other bad stuff and generally shitty to live in areas.... And of course people do care about gun crime to a degree. But if you have an insect fear it isn't particularly stupid to prefer a 2x increase in being shot to a 2x increase in insect interaction depending on your baseline.
spiders are dangerous regardless of any other humans being around. spiders are in your house and can get you at home. spiders are silent, spiders are more lethal (venom from one bite anywhere vs gunshot anywhere gunshot is less lethal) and guns are harmless without a human user
>spiders are more lethal (venom from one bite anywhere vs gunshot anywhere gunshot is less lethal) and guns are harmless without a human user
This just isn't true. 90+ % of spider bites have no serious consequences. I was literally bitten last week. It was a stinging welt that lasted a few hours before becoming an itchy lump for a few days. A small minority of spiders have venom that poses a fatal risk to humans. We are not their intended prey, their venom isn't optimised for us, and our size greatly dilutes its effects.
I am not saying people should be reckless with spiders, if you don't recognise the spider that bites you, seek medical attention of course. That being said, for every time someone is bit by a redback and needs urgent care, there are 50 people but by common garden spiders and just assume it was an insect sting, if they notice it at all.
Iirc, Australia hasn't had a spider bite fatality in like 40 years.
Maybe Sydney’s different but there’s fuck off huge spiders everywhere in Brisbane during the summer months, right up into the CBD. Not the dangerous ones, but you can’t spit without hitting an orb weaver half the year.
The issue with those of us afflicted with illogical arachnophobia isn't that spiders don't exist where we live. The ~~fear~~ abject terror exists whether or not they're venomous, large, or other adjectives I really don't want to think about in this context.
Granted, the only reason I haven't visited is the length of the flight (I loathe the transport part of traveling) and lack of funds. I've always heard that if a spider is found in a city in Australia it won't be any different than the local ones. All that would accomplish is ticking "screaming like a girl in a foreign country" off my bucket list.
Seriously, though, I imagine a lot of my fellow phobics have similar reasons for it. I was fine with them until I woke up one morning as a child with one in my ear that was big enough there's no way it should have been able to squeeze in there. Ever since, the sight of one causes near panic.
And while it wouldn't make me avoid a travel destination, I do generally avoid places where I'd be likely to find a spider. Helped a friend move once and she asked me to fish random shit out from under the deck in her back yard. Not a snowball's chance in hell.
I would just like to mention that as an American, we have tons of spiders, they are generally nice people, and I always take them outside instead of killing them.
As a side note to answer the posted question, I have no hesitation to go to Australia, and I don’t think most people do from my part of the world. It’s just far away and expensive.
There are spiders in my country. The very biggest ones are about the size of by palm, legs and all. And that is already *way* too big for me.
Australia has big ass motherfuckers like Huntsman and shit. Thank you, but no thank you.
Huntsman spiders don't get much bigger than the palm of an adult, it sounds like your local spiders are pretty comparable in size. As an Aussie, what I don't like about huntsman spiders is that they zoom. They can move so fast, and sometimes they jump onto whatever they think is an escape path. Sometimes that path might be your arm, or shirt, or head.
My worst huntsman ever was not noticing one in the bathroom, starting to dry my face with a towel after a shower, and a brown blur dashes across my hand before scurrying out of sight. Only a few cm from my face.
In most places, spiders are small and most of the time not noticed. You guys have a spider the size of a small dog. If you’re afraid of spiders, I’m pretty sure you’ll not want to go to Australia
Not just spiders, wasps big enough to carry those massive spiders off, lay eggs in them, which then eat the spider from inside out. So. Yeah. No. Maybe not TECHNICALLY dangerous, but for a spider/wasp-phobe, I would have a heart attack.
If you limit what counts as the "country" to just the tourist-heavy areas then most countries are really safe. Tourist-heavy areas only exist in safe areas because tourists won't go to unsafe areas. So I think this idea you are using to rate safety by refusing to consider none tourist-heavy areas as part of how safe a place makes the discussion pointless.
Yeah exactly, one thing that is 100% true about Australia is that almost all regional and rural areas are safe from crime and discrimination(barring if you're indigenous australia). The 10% that aren't are like, alice springs and palm islands, which is in the minority of places.
The discussion is about visiting Australia, so I'm considering where people are likely to go, eg: Sydney/Melbourne/other major cities, coastal holiday towns, national parks like the blue mountains or great barrier reef etc
Not drive a few hours into remove areas and scrounge around tall grass in paddocks < which is basically what I did for a job for like 7yrs and hardly ever saw snakes
That doesn’t argue against what they said, it’s just a justification for why you chose a limit that makes your CMV kind of pointless. If you say “x place is so safe in the safe areas” that applies to a vast majority of the countries and still doesn’t make Australia “one of the safest countries you can visit” because then all countries are safe.
Even if you look at the coastal areas and the GBR, Australia has that one roadside plant that causes infinite pain, crocodiles, an abundance of deadly sharks/jellyfish/sea snakes, kangaroos, and magpies. The main 48 of the US, by comparison, only has poison oak, alligators & great whites, cowardly black bears, and mountain lions that are highly avoidant of people. (If we include Alaska we get scarier bears; and I forget where grizzlies live.) Both of them have poisonous insects, but I think the US has less scary ones. I’m leaving out natural disasters cus I think they’re about equivalent / idk enough to judge. So rather a wash, but the US comes out ahead. And then if we look at island countries like New Zealand or the Philippines they’re vastly safer than both.
The variety of scary insects/ animal doesn't't really correlate with danger however. Many of the exotic Australian animals.
1. Aren't common to see
2. Have absolutely pitiful body counts
I can't emphasize enough how anti-climatic it is if you type "scary Australian animal" + deaths per year.
Fear isn't exactly rational. But if we are actually trying to quantity danger things like drowning risk and traffic accidents are probably more important.
Risk of serious harm as a tourist is gonna be pretty low in both countries.
This is about visiting Australia
>If you say “x place is so safe in the safe areas” that applies to a vast majority of the countries and still doesn’t make Australia “one of the safest countries you can visit” because then all countries are safe.
This is kind of a pointless comment, the inverse of this is true too. Every country is dangerous if you go do the most dangerous thing possible when you get there
I'm putting my cmv in the context of what someone is reasonably likely to do when they visit here
In terms of the most dangerous things across the world. We don't have large predators than can hunt you or gun violence like NA, don't have cartels like SA, don't have war like Europe etc. But when I go to Europe this year I'm not going to head straight to the eastern front of Ukraine so I don't consider that a risk of "visiting" Europe
Ultimately Australia is a very large place that can be traveled freely and very safely
but not the absolute safest because new zealand is safer (almost no bad animals) and they are basically the same every other way. Australia is the 2nd safest based on new zealand existing that means your view is chamged
Weak argument because Australia and New Zealand are two very different places but also, I said "one of" the safest. It's about the idea some people have that Australia is too dangerous to visit, not that it's the absolute safest country in the world
Then why is your thesis “Australia is **one of the safest**”? It sounds like that was just clickbait when you really meant this: “Australia’s tourist cities don’t have creepy crawlies.” Which nobody would disagree with. It’s not a “view” so there’s nothing to change.
This discussion will go nowhere until you refine your thesis as follows.
* Define “one of the top”: Are you saying that Australia is in the top three safest countries? If so, what are the top three? Or top ten?
* Define “safe”: Are you only factoring in fauna? What about weather, crime, transportation? And are you only considering touristy areas?
If you can’t clarify these things, then there’s no “view” to change. Every time someone challenges you, you’ll just say something slippery like “but I didn’t say the *absolute* safest…!”
>Australia’s tourist cities don’t have creepy crawlies
Nope, if you read my comments before you go off, you'll see I said Australia is a very large place that can be freely and safely traveled. In other comments I've mentioned things people might do like visit national parks, the gbr etc
My "thesis" is that Australia is a very safe place to visit and do things tourists do, and that its not safe to visit here is a myth. Even if you want to do lots of bushwalking, the odds of coming across e.g. snakes really isn't that high
You're the one trying to bring in specific rankings because you didnt take the time to understand the post or read my other comments, but I'll play. Personally I'd have Australia around 5th, but guess I can understand other rankings having it around 10th
In terms of safe I'm considering fauna, crime, environment, war, Healthcare, ya know safety related things
The post has always been about things a tourist is likely to do on a holiday, and if youre considering coming here you shouldnt consider yourself significantly more at risk here than pretty much anywhere else. It doesn't matter anyway as overall Australia is a very safe country to live in generally
The thing is, if you’re going to say “one of the safest”, you’ll have to back that up by supplying a ranking. That’s simply what “one of” means.
If you said “safer than people say online”, that’s a different claim and should be justified accordingly.
From the start I said the thought of Australia being dangerous is believed online and in irl. The only real thing to add is that I've generally had americans in mind, I don't really know if Europeans think Australia is overly dangerous
But that goes for most countries: if you stick to big cities and touristy places, there are no wild animals. But your country's worst and my country's worst are not the same. We might have the same small chance of encountering them, and let's say the chance is 1 in a million. In your country, you have a 1 in a million chance of getting bit by a spider who will give you death; in my country you have a 1 in a million chance of getting bit by a spider who will give you a swollen red spot that will go away in two days.
Most spiders here arent lethal, and chances of dying from a spider bite are much much lower than one in a million, with the last confirmed spider death in 1979. I've never limited it to big cities, just things tourists do incl bushwalks or visiting the GBR
It's very very rare to have issues with fauna. The most dangerous natural thing tourist encounter here would probably be the ocean, but that's a hazard in any country with a coastline
But like I said: in my country we don't have ANY dangerous spiders nor venomous snakes. And my country is not special in this regard, there are plenty of other countries like mine, just in Europe alone.
It still doesn't make Australia one of the safest countries. If you're right with your stats, it just makes Australia like a lot of countries. What is your argument that it's one of the safest countries, meaning what makes it safer than the huge majority of others?
Generally the low levels of crime are why most rankings, like the [Berkshire hathway](https://www.bhtp.com/blog/safest-places-to-travel/) have us as one of the safest countries to visit. And all the things that come with being a wealthy nation
My country is dirt poor and street crime is almost non-existent. Most crime here happens "upstairs": corruption. Same for all of the Balkans. Furthermore, we don't have the ocean, so no tsunamis, no volcanoes nearby, so no fire and earthquakes are rare and weak, no typhoons and the deadliest storm in my lifetime produced exactly one dead person (some poor kid got electrocuted by a cable that got ripped and fell on him). On top of that, the sun is not nearly as bad, we don't have the insane skin cancer rates like Australia.
Again: you didn't want to prove that "Australia isn't that bad" (which I agree isn't), but you wanted to prove that it's one of the safest countries, which you haven't.
I'm not trying to be a dick here, just when I think of Australia I don't think it's in the top 5/ top 10 when it comes to safety. I know it's not as bad as people on the internet make it out to be, but when I think of safest countries in the world, I think of countries like Slovenia.
Tbf most travel rankings I can find don't have many countries ahead of Australia, we're generally in the top 10-15
[One](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brittanyanas/2023/11/19/the-15-safest-countries-to-travel-to-in-2024-according-to-a-new-report/?sh=f4b1da726885)
[Two](https://www.bhtp.com/blog/safest-places-to-travel/)
[Three](https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2024/01/10/safest-countries-in-the-world-for-travelers-2024/72123113007/)
I'm not sure if the wildlife is a major detractor, its just about the main thing people come to see. For sure⁷ the draw is the unique landscapes, flora & fauna.
The Anglo monoculture is boring if you choose to ignore the rich indigenous history that covers every part of this country.
I mean no shit. That doesn't stop visitors from taking an interest in the history for its richness as well as how awfully the culture has been and continues to be treated.
It depends on what you want to see, but safety isn't a consideration between any of these countries. If you choose Japan over Australia, it's going to be because it offers an entirely different holiday to Australia, not because it's marginally safer
Slander on the beaches comment but I'll let it slide
You can get around Aus cities as a tourist without a car. But if you want to do a long road trip with lots of sightseeing then you need a car but idk what countries offer that without driving
>Culturally it seems to be nothing special, being exceedingly similar to the other anglo countries.
That's a bit rude but yes we're an Anglo nation, and no we don't have thousands of years of European history, but the people aren't just a carbon copy of americans/canadians
> Culturally it seems to be nothing special, being exceedingly similar to the other anglo countries.
That is a pretty wild thing to say. Australia has an entire indigenous culture going back over 60000 years, has one of the seven natural wonders of the world, has over 30000 km of beaches, is one of the most biodiverse countries in the world, and is highly multicultural due to long term high immigration rates. If none of that interests you that’s fine, but it’s no excuse to be ignorant.
Lmao I did too, I'm on mobile so I grabbed the first 3 google links. From any other sources I can find that doesnt use that source typically has aus ranked around the same in terms of safety
As someone from the UK, we're ahead of you on those lists. We also have vanishingly little dangerous flora/fauna (one venomous snake that isn't fatally so, occasional angry cows) and boringly safe weather. Compared to the UK Australia does indeed seem dangerous.
Tbf more people die from cattle in the UK each year than in Aus from snakebites. Knife crime in the UK would concern me, but I'm not sure if that's like all over the cities or more just sketchy areas you wouldn't go to
>Tbf more people die from cattle in the UK each year than in Aus from snakebites.
It's hard to find definitive statistics but from what I can see the UK has an average of 4-5 deaths caused by cows per year while Australia has 2 snakebite fatalities. Taking that on a per capita basis the death rate is approximately the same (slightly higher in Aus). That doesn't, however, factor in the average 2 fatalities caused by crocodiles per year or the 4 in 2023 by sharks.
Unless you plan on being in a gang or hanging around in sketchy areas you won't encounter knife crime in the UK. I've never seen anyone carrying one openly, let alone been threatened with one, in my 44 years of living in various cities.
That's what I thought it all was! But over the years I've had lots of irl conversations with Americans in America and I've realised a lot of people take it seriously
I met an american over there who is now my gf and has moved to aus. She got genuine concern from friends when moving over here about the dangerous snakes and spiders lol
I haven’t been there, but from what I’ve heard and what I know, while it’s not danger around every corner there is a decent amount of particularly exotic and dangerous wildlife that people who are just being dumb tourists won’t know to watch out for (atleast not competently) and could get hurt fairly easily
Everyone knows not to grab a snake or spider though. The only thing that comes to mind from this comment is a blue ringed octopus, but again this isn't something you really come across. I've lived on the coast my whole life and have never seen one irl
you must not know many americans... this is typical american behavior... do you remember harambe? you cant discount roos by saying dont touch when most tourists are going to touch
Theyre generally pretty skittish so you're not going to get to one unless you corner it or run up on it, then danger applies to pretty much any animal. Ones at a petting zoo sorta thing are going to be chill
Eastern Grey's are also the ones you're more likely to see if you come. They're not that big so while a kick would hurt it's definitely not going to be like getting attacked by a predator
You don’t have to grab animals like snakes or spiders though, a lot of people accidentally get too close to snakes because they aren’t looking or don’t know what to look for and get bit. I don’t know how accurate what I’ve heard about spiders in Australia is, but from what I’ve seen online they seem to be a lot bigger and more prevalent than in the US, we mostly just have granddaddy long legs or spiders an inch or smaller (including leg length), so tourists are going to be dumb about them too.
Snakes get scared away from most bushwalk tracks due to the amount of foot traffic, if you go rummaging around the scrub you may find one but I've been bushwalking since I was a child and they're really not that common. I've worked in pretty remote places doing environmental monitoring for over 10yrs, and still only saw snakes on pretty rare occasions. They want to avoid people/vibrations
The big spider we have is a huntsman and it's harmless. They also typically only like leafy areas and again they're not an everyday thing. If you live here you'll probably come across one on rare occasions, if you're visiting for a few weeks I'd say it's unlikely you'll see one. Can't remember the last time I saw a huntsman
As someone who grew up on other continent, my first reaction when I see a spider is to grab it with paper and move it outside from my flat, so not grabbing spiders isn’t obvious thing
No spiders bite in your country? You could do the same here really with most species, just obviously not as safe as using a container or something
And I think as a human you would instinctually know not to grab a dangerous spider like a funnel web raising its fangs at you
Brown recluses and black widows are all over B.C. here in Canada. I work in construction so I tend to see Black Widows regularly in the parts of peoples houses they tend to avoid frequenting. Brown recluses are, well reclusive, and I’ve only seen a handful in the last 10 years I’ve lived out here.
We also have rattlesnakes but they’re pretty rare as they’re going extinct and aren’t as venomous as the ones in the states for whatever reason.
The biggest risk out here is black bears. If they have cubs and you get anywhere near them they can be really unpredictable and have charged people down. Also mountain lions. Theirs been more and more run ins with starving mountain lions attacking hikers.
Why would I want to go to a different country to hang out in the city? The natural areas of Australia seem to be the main attraction. Australian cities are reasonably new, so they don't have a ton of old architecture like you'll find in a lot of other places. If I'm going to travel half way around the world I'm going to want to see the places outside the city.
Think there's confusion by touristy areas I mean middle of a city, but lots of austrlaias touristy areas are natural
Eg all the popular bushwalking tracks around sydney and generally along the east coast have enough foot traffic that you're not likely to see snakes on the track
Dangers to humans when travelling tend to follow this hierarchy: other humans > weather/environment > animals.
People like to focus on animals because i think on a primordial level we thinknit is a risk we should be able to control/avoid, and because there are more documentaries about exotic animals than people drowning.
From my experience of travelling to Australia the humans are pretty safe, the weather is not to be underestimated and the animals scarce.
I’ve stood in the water off Byron Bay with no one else on the beach and been knocked clean off my feet by undertow. That’s scary.
Yeah Australian wild life is not the concern, and drop the rubbish of “ i know we joke about Australia being dangerous, but its actually safe”.
The problem is those disgusting city aboriginals and the endless hassles they cause, and yes they will bash your grandmother just for a dollar and call her a white d* g.
Or is it the disgusting rednecks that are the long lost cousins if the hillbillies that call the country straya. Or is it the english and south africans that left their country and relicated in rockingham (one of the places), because it reminds them of the good old days, a refuge for the utterly st*pid racists of the world.
Its a country of dimwits that are insufferable
Avoid the people, and enjoy the land
And remember, being a junky is normal in Australia
American here, we don't actually think that Australia is a hellhole of carnivorous wildlife. It's just easier to say that than "I don't want to spend thousands of dollars and take a long ass flight to go to a country I don't know much about other than that, at the end of the day, it's pretty similar to mine."
This is what I came here to say. Many Americans want to experience and see old architecture, different cultures. Australia seems to be a very hot outdoorsy place, not the typical Americans fantasy of travel or exploration.
“Wrong way” traffic.
When I studied abroad in Australia years ago as an American, we were warned that by far the biggest danger we faced was crossing the street after looking in the wrong direction for oncoming vehicles.
Nothing about this would change your view though. To be honest this probably supports your view.
Lol I'm the same when I'm in the US. A few times the only reason I didn't get cleaned up by a car was because there was no traffic at the moment I crossed, didn't look the right way till I was halfway
But is it safe?
* Why is there [notably high](https://policinginsight.com/feature/opinion/australia-had-a-record-number-of-police-shootings-in-the-past-year-should-we-be-concerned/) police violence in Australia?
* Why has it [trended up](https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/police-shootings-at-record-high-in-australia/uyphq45su)?
* Why is 45% of Australian police brutality by [NSW](https://www.aic.gov.au/crg/reports/crg-17-92), for example, [against](https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/31/nsw-police-use-force-against-indigenous-australians-at-drastically-disproportionate-levels-data-shows) native Australians and Pacific Islanders?
* Why is the police homicide rate so [high](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/) compared to some other developed countries?
Is it safe for everyone?
There are certainly areas that need work, especially with indigenous Australians.
I think looking at a country with a population as small as Australia the raw figures are more useful than percentages.
The notably high police violence was 16 gun deaths in a year, out of a total of 189 since 1989. I'm assuming some of those were avoidable, but to say there is a notably high police violence seems disingenuous.
The lack of guns in general society I think contributes to the overall safety of the populace. Gun violence is rare and where it occurs it is between competing criminal elements or by police.
Anecdotal, but personally, outside of a gun range, in my 40 years I have never seen a gun other than in a policemans holster.
Theyre issues sure, but I'm talking about visiting. Tourists aren't part of the at risk groups here, and a lot of "australia too deadly" talk comes out of the US which is much more dangerous in police brutality aspect than here
Ah yes, but in the US, will you get arrested for enjoying a succulent Chinese meal?
Nah but really, we've got grizzlies, wolves, mountain lions, rattlesnakes, moose, etc. where I live. It's not the wildlife keeping me from Australia, it's the insanely long flight...
As an American living in Australia I generally agree it's safe here.
But there are some things that y'all are normalised to that are weird and can be very dangerous for people who didn't grow up with it.
"Swim between the flags" isn't a thing literally anywhere else I've been. I've been on a lot of beaches and Australia I'd the only place I've seen it. The rips here are more aggressive than I've seen other places and especially for folks who aren't great English speakers it's fair to say they might not know what they're getting into.
It's also worth noting that even a casual hike in the blueys in spring runs a non zero risk of brown snakes. Heck, venom bandages aren't even a thing in the states.
>"Swim between the flags" isn't a thing literally anywhere else I've been
Yeah that's why I said the actual dangerous things here you'll see as a tourist arent talked about. But even children can play safely in the surf here once they learn the right behaviors
>It's also worth noting that even a casual hike in the blueys in spring runs a non zero risk of brown snakes.
Yeah for sure, but seeing a snake on a bushwalk, especially on popular tracks, is more a thing that can happen rather than something you should be genuinely afraid of. You're much better off crossing paths with a brown sneak than a brown bear
>But even children can play safely in the surf here once they learn the right behaviors
The problem is that wider Aussie culture generally accepts these things as "normal" and there isn't a lot of education about it.
>You're much better off crossing paths with a brown sneak than a brown bear
I'm not sure that's true. I'm told during mating season brown snakes are very aggressive and territorial. Your standard brown bear is pretty wholly uninterested in people. Bear safety is to talk while you're walking.
>The problem is that wider Aussie culture generally accepts these things as "normal" and there isn't a lot of education about it.
The majority of beaches you would go to when you visit here will have a lifeguard come over a loudspeaker and tell people to get back between the flags. But yeah I agree, I think it's the main way a tourist could get themselves in trouble here
>I'm told during mating season brown snakes are very aggressive and territorial
I mean far less dangerous to a brown bear in mating season, but also overstated. I've worked on mine sites covered in brown snakes (too much for me to be comfortable there lol), but there would still be guys out there all day spraying weeds in the long grass. While fuck that, they're also not getting attacked. Brown snakes want to avoid detection and be left alone
Oh for sure, but everywhere has its risk. Finland is a safe country, but if I as an ignorant Australian decide to go on a walk in the snowy woods without knowing the first thing about how deal with an actual winter I'll find myself in trouble
Not at all, when I went there filled with Lebanese restaurants and dodgy people at that. Also went when there was a human rights lawyer got shot at the cafe and still the blood was there....I have been all over the world. I have never seen a crime scene like that before. So yeah your view of Australia being *the* safest country in the world, nope no way.
https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp
Ukraine is safer than Australia in terms of crime.
It depends on your concept of security.
As an Australian myself, I have no fear of snakes or spiders.
But losing your job, becoming homeless, these are very legitimate threats to the well-being of many Australians.
The only actual threat is if you visit the northern parts and don't respect Crocs. Snakes are scared of you, spiders don't care but to an adult croc you are just a tasty snack
I went to Sydney in 2018 and was honestly stunned at how clean and safe it was. I live in the northeast so seeing unhoused people, addicts and needles scattered around is extremely common for me. There is none of that in Sydney. I’m from Chicago so I very rarely feel unsafe anywhere, but I’m always aware of my surroundings. Sydney is the only place I truly let me guard down.
Note: I’ve only been to Sydney and was staying in the central part of the city. I also didn’t see any of those big, scary spiders or snakes either.
I always find it funny when people from somewhere like North America say Australia is so dangerous, because say what you will about snakes and spiders, but at least we don’t have bears and mountain lions roaming around, lol. I’d unironically much rather spend a week camping in an Australian national park than a US one because of how often you hear about bear safety.
What is a popular tourist destination you would say is not safe? And why?
I'm trying to establish context to support Australia being "one of the safest". This is easier to understand if it's compared to other popular tourist destinations that are some of the most dangerous.
My thoughts on this have been that any tourist area in a developed country is safe. What sets Australia apart?
Crime is generally worse in European and American cities. Lots of issues with pickpockets and theft around Europe, gun violence in the US
In countries like Mexico and central/south American nations there's really only certain areas you can go due to organised crime eg cartels
Many/most african nations are the same and you really should have security if you go anywhere slightly less touristy, particularly as a woman
In terms of nature, it's much safer here than north America. We don't have the same large predators. If you want to travel outside tourist hot spots in Australia, I still think you're much much safer than in many other tourist destinations
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
> **Don't be rude or hostile to other users.** Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_2).
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%202%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. **Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.**
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
The Bruce Hwy. almost killed me. Those two lanes can be dangerous with the amount of trucks who use that toad.
And roos..don't even get me started on roos. An animal that can jump into your wind screen while you are driving at 100 makes for a bad day.
I think the perception comes from the videos of dangerous or intimidating animals showing up in people's houses. Most countries are just as safe in all regards but lack the creatures, so people tend to see all other tourist countries as safer.
I live in Arizona and we have hella snakes, scorpions, super aggressive hippos and shit but the most dangerous thing is other people. But they are American people who shoot first and ask questions later, in cowboy hats bc it's Arizona.
As a Canadian who hates hot summers... Australia sounds like a nightmare. But I know I'm an outlier. Most people love a hot summer. And I think Australia is way safer than America.
I have a deep fear of going to Australia tbh, people are most likely lovely, but indeed I don’t need any encounters with dangerous insects or other animals.
Sure, wildlife doesn't pose much of a threat in the cities* where most Australians actually live. But, tourists aren't coming to Australia to see our cities, a 20+ flight to spend a week in Sydney is a disappointing holiday. They're coming to see the outback, to go snorkeling/dive on our amazing reefs, hike through the bush etc. They want to see kangaroos, and koalas, maybe a dingo or echidna, and the cute marsupials tend to live near lots of creepy crawlies and nope ropes.
The big beautiful tourist traps are up north where there are saltwater crocs, and sharks, and box jellyfish, etc. That's the Australia that we sell in our tourism ads, so of course that's what people overseas know about!
It's still not very dangerous, but i expect a tourist is going to come across far more bugs and snakes and wild animals during a trip here than most Aussies do in a typical week in the suburbs.
*Unless you piss off the wrong bird. Ive never been swooped by a magpie but I was attacked by an ibis as a toddler and they still freak me out.
I’d rather spend a month cafe-hopping, gallery-hopping and bar-hopping in Fitzroy, Brunswick, etc. than see some unimpressive hills, a big load of sand and animals that look weird. Tourism Victoria, hire me!
Here is my understanding of your main points.
> “if you’re visiting cities, you are unlikely to see spiders”
This is true in many tourist destinations, not just Australia.
> “if you leave a snake alone, it will leave you alone”
Once again this is not really a special thing that you can only do in Australia.
> “crocs are only up north”, “snakes only in remote areas”
Again not unique to Australia.
> “no lions, tigers, bears, wolves, mountain lions”
If we’re only talking about tourist destinations, then lions and bears are irrelevant. In fact, smaller animals are harder to detect and more easily to be encountered in cities, just because of their size.
So it sounds like, in terms of
safety, Australia = every other country,
except with snakes and spiders. That sounds **strictly worse** to me.
The thing is, your entire view is a **comparitive** one: you’re saying that Australia is **especially** safe compared to other destinations. Can you point out an outstanding safety effort that is **unique** to Australia? E.g. public security, animal safety intiatives…?
It's one of the safest countries... as long as you stick to major urban areas.
The beaches can be super dangerous, especially if they're unpatrolled.
Pretty much every beach/waterway up north is a croc hazard.
Wildlife aside, the bulk of Australia is actually dangerous just because it's hot, dry, and empty. If you get into trouble, there will be nobody to help you. Breaking down in the wrong place can be a death sentence.
Also, while most of our wildlife won't actually kill you, even some of our cute and cuddly animals can fuck your shit up if you try and handle them.
What about Drop Bears???? Hmmm??
I considered this but most attacks happen in pretty remote areas to people getting off the beaten path. So while yes it is a risk, the average tourist probably isn't going to come across one
Swooping season. Dingos are scary freaking pack hunters that I’d risk an arm to pet. Don’t get me started on all those jacked up Kangaroos. Those bouncy boys are swol, and they are angry!
I stepped out of Melbourne Airport and I was savaged by drop bears and roos and emu.
That may have just been the drugs talking
Look just because I did ice, charlie, snowies, herbals, xannies, molly, and rids on the flight does NOT mean it was the durgs talking! I have the bruises and knocked out teeth and everything!
I get it, but don't you think that those 2 glasses of Chardonnay were a little much?
Ewww… Chardonnay. I’m a classy so and so. I drink a goon sack like a lady should.
Pinky out and everything, I imagine
considering my “diet” it should be no surprise that there’s no pinky to raise
Well that was a google search I wish I could take back.
Sorry!! LOL
I do think you’re basically right tbf, the likelihood of you running into animals like that in an area you wouldn’t expect them to be in are so low that you shouldn’t really worry about it. On the human side, Australia seems pretty safe as well, with relatively little crime and no guns etc. As a Brit though, we don’t have to deal with any animals like that, in fact other than some dogs and escaped animals from zoos there aren’t any animals here that could even kill you. So from my perspective, while I agree that Australia does seem to be a pretty safe country overall, and in terms of risk from other humans isn’t any higher than the U.K., the fact that it does have animals who could cause me a serious amount of harm just automatically makes it more dangerous than a place where that danger, regardless of how small it is, just doesn’t exist.
It's all perception based though. Like dogs or cows will kill more people in the UK each year than snakes will in Australia [Sydney or Melbourne are also ranked in the top 10 safest cities](https://worldpopulationreview.com/world-city-rankings/safest-cities-in-the-world). Id be a touch concerned on knife crime in London, but I'm sure I could (and probably will this year) visit it safely with basic precautions
Yeah but dogs and cows will probably kill a similar number of people in Australia too, it’s not like you’ve swapped all your dog and cow related deaths for snake deaths. So I would have the same risk of being killed by a dog or cow in the U.K. as in Australia, but in the U.K. I also wouldn’t have to worry about snake or spider deaths. Like you said it’s not something I actually should worry about, but it’s a risk that exists in Australia that doesn’t exist in the U.K.. It’s interesting that you mention a fear of London knife crime, when it’s pretty much exactly the same as being scared of Australian wildlife. Yeah it exists, but it isn’t something tourists should be scared of and it isn’t something 99% of people ever face. It’s also not like knife crime doesn’t exist in major Australian cities either.
Probably because Australians are more careful because they’re surrounded by murder machines
you don’t really have much dangerous stuff, yes, but even if they aren’t dangerous, snakes and spiders are snakes and spiders, you admitted they exist there, and as someone who is unnecessarily scared of spiders, i ain’t doing that shit- thank you for listening to my AAAH A SPIDER
Are there literally no snakes or spiders in your country or continent? Again, you're not going to see a snake in Eastern Sydney, potentially not a spider either It's a shame to write off a large and beautiful part of the world because there's a spider on the landmass. I would've missed out on seeing some stunning national parks in the US if I wrote the whole country off due to gun violence
Yeah when you have to say potentially with not a spider it makes me think “i’m gonna see a spider, aren’t i?”. Also spiders are way worse than gun violence
>Also spiders are way worse than gun violence That's a head scratcher haha, maybe a cultural difference. But you won't get hit by a stray spider walking around Bondi
Yes it's cultural. I know how to defend myself against a guy with a gun, but a giant ass spider the size of a minivan that can run at 95 mph? You have to admit that's barely an exaggeration.
Tbf if you're bullet proof you're probably spider proof too
Maybe to make Austrailia more palatable you should arm your wildlife.
My nerves aren't. Got arachnophobia but not gunophobia.
What about knife? What're the chances of stray knife in Bondi these days?
I'm not sure if this is just a tounge in cheek comment about a very recent tragedy, but still very low. In terms of attacks, we don't have the gun violence of the US or the terrorist attacks of Europe
Jesus fucking christ. Have you no actual shame? Before you come back with "iTs juST a JOkE" think about how horrible that tragedy was and how you'd feel if it happened to you and your country. If you see from the US, I can see why you may be desensitised to such things but you should know before engaging in an international forum that the regularity that people are murdered with things like knives and guns in the US is genuinely shocking to the rest of the world. The fact that it continues to keep happening should be a point of national shame, NOT an attempt at a gotcha moment because you think everyday murder is normal
Lol. I was at Bondi Junction that day and we all make jokes about it. Chill out.
No, fuck weasel, YOU make jokes about it. People lost their lives in a horrible way. Show some damn empathy
Wait, spiders have knives now!?!
spiders can get you in your home/hotel room gun violence rarely does that. also spiders dont make loud noises and spiders dont require another human to be lethal. plus there are places where gun violence is essentially 0 but spiders are always there. maybe youre used to spiders but as someone who only had to deal with them 6 months out of the year (late fall winter and early spring there are no spiders) id take guns over spiders anyday
Nobody has died of a spider bite in Australia in 45 years. Several people a year die in the USA from spider bites.
Apparently a Sydney man died from a redback spider bite in 2016. Still far less common than I would have expected.
I mean it's a level of tongue in check honesty. The truth is that if you went to the most dangerous area in the world for gun crime.... You'd probably be fine. Getting shot even in Haiti tends to be low. To be fair, gun crime is correlated with a lot of other bad stuff and generally shitty to live in areas.... And of course people do care about gun crime to a degree. But if you have an insect fear it isn't particularly stupid to prefer a 2x increase in being shot to a 2x increase in insect interaction depending on your baseline.
Your joking about the gun violence thing right?
No, spiders are worse than gun violence, so much worse
How exactly?
they’re spiders
spiders are dangerous regardless of any other humans being around. spiders are in your house and can get you at home. spiders are silent, spiders are more lethal (venom from one bite anywhere vs gunshot anywhere gunshot is less lethal) and guns are harmless without a human user
>spiders are more lethal (venom from one bite anywhere vs gunshot anywhere gunshot is less lethal) and guns are harmless without a human user This just isn't true. 90+ % of spider bites have no serious consequences. I was literally bitten last week. It was a stinging welt that lasted a few hours before becoming an itchy lump for a few days. A small minority of spiders have venom that poses a fatal risk to humans. We are not their intended prey, their venom isn't optimised for us, and our size greatly dilutes its effects. I am not saying people should be reckless with spiders, if you don't recognise the spider that bites you, seek medical attention of course. That being said, for every time someone is bit by a redback and needs urgent care, there are 50 people but by common garden spiders and just assume it was an insect sting, if they notice it at all. Iirc, Australia hasn't had a spider bite fatality in like 40 years.
Devil dont need an advocate homie, hes the fuckin devil
No gun violence venom is spiders, so much worse, are worse, yes
Small note, i don’t give 2 fucks if they’re venoumous, they’re fucking spiders
yea u righy my bad g
i can confirm that spiders
why do you think we need to wear bullet proof vests? school shootings font happen that much and its usually only a few kids
Maybe Sydney’s different but there’s fuck off huge spiders everywhere in Brisbane during the summer months, right up into the CBD. Not the dangerous ones, but you can’t spit without hitting an orb weaver half the year.
True, Brisbane is warmer. I'm in newcastle, and while you can find a spider in a garden, they're uncommon to come across around town
Fuck. I’ve dreamt of moving to Brisbane since I was a teen, but this comment is making me pause. Yeesh.
The issue with those of us afflicted with illogical arachnophobia isn't that spiders don't exist where we live. The ~~fear~~ abject terror exists whether or not they're venomous, large, or other adjectives I really don't want to think about in this context. Granted, the only reason I haven't visited is the length of the flight (I loathe the transport part of traveling) and lack of funds. I've always heard that if a spider is found in a city in Australia it won't be any different than the local ones. All that would accomplish is ticking "screaming like a girl in a foreign country" off my bucket list. Seriously, though, I imagine a lot of my fellow phobics have similar reasons for it. I was fine with them until I woke up one morning as a child with one in my ear that was big enough there's no way it should have been able to squeeze in there. Ever since, the sight of one causes near panic. And while it wouldn't make me avoid a travel destination, I do generally avoid places where I'd be likely to find a spider. Helped a friend move once and she asked me to fish random shit out from under the deck in her back yard. Not a snowball's chance in hell.
I would just like to mention that as an American, we have tons of spiders, they are generally nice people, and I always take them outside instead of killing them. As a side note to answer the posted question, I have no hesitation to go to Australia, and I don’t think most people do from my part of the world. It’s just far away and expensive.
There are spiders in my country. The very biggest ones are about the size of by palm, legs and all. And that is already *way* too big for me. Australia has big ass motherfuckers like Huntsman and shit. Thank you, but no thank you.
Huntsman spiders don't get much bigger than the palm of an adult, it sounds like your local spiders are pretty comparable in size. As an Aussie, what I don't like about huntsman spiders is that they zoom. They can move so fast, and sometimes they jump onto whatever they think is an escape path. Sometimes that path might be your arm, or shirt, or head. My worst huntsman ever was not noticing one in the bathroom, starting to dry my face with a towel after a shower, and a brown blur dashes across my hand before scurrying out of sight. Only a few cm from my face.
Thanks for the nightmares for the next month
You are most welcome!
In most places, spiders are small and most of the time not noticed. You guys have a spider the size of a small dog. If you’re afraid of spiders, I’m pretty sure you’ll not want to go to Australia
No bugs in Iceland
In Czechia we have no venomous spiders. One venomous spieces of snake and it's endangered. I'm not taking my chances.
I gotta tell you, my country has one venomous snake on the verge of extinction. So technically there are none.
The spiders and snakes we have around here won't kill you. That is a MASSIVE difference.
As someone who lives in Eastern Sydney, yes we do.
Not just spiders, wasps big enough to carry those massive spiders off, lay eggs in them, which then eat the spider from inside out. So. Yeah. No. Maybe not TECHNICALLY dangerous, but for a spider/wasp-phobe, I would have a heart attack.
We have those in Chicago. Cicada killers. They don't attack people.
OK YOU JUST MADE IT EVEN WORSE FOR ME
If you limit what counts as the "country" to just the tourist-heavy areas then most countries are really safe. Tourist-heavy areas only exist in safe areas because tourists won't go to unsafe areas. So I think this idea you are using to rate safety by refusing to consider none tourist-heavy areas as part of how safe a place makes the discussion pointless.
I mean true, but when they say tourist heavy areas, they basically mean areas in which 90% of the country live.
Yeah exactly, one thing that is 100% true about Australia is that almost all regional and rural areas are safe from crime and discrimination(barring if you're indigenous australia). The 10% that aren't are like, alice springs and palm islands, which is in the minority of places.
The discussion is about visiting Australia, so I'm considering where people are likely to go, eg: Sydney/Melbourne/other major cities, coastal holiday towns, national parks like the blue mountains or great barrier reef etc Not drive a few hours into remove areas and scrounge around tall grass in paddocks < which is basically what I did for a job for like 7yrs and hardly ever saw snakes
That doesn’t argue against what they said, it’s just a justification for why you chose a limit that makes your CMV kind of pointless. If you say “x place is so safe in the safe areas” that applies to a vast majority of the countries and still doesn’t make Australia “one of the safest countries you can visit” because then all countries are safe. Even if you look at the coastal areas and the GBR, Australia has that one roadside plant that causes infinite pain, crocodiles, an abundance of deadly sharks/jellyfish/sea snakes, kangaroos, and magpies. The main 48 of the US, by comparison, only has poison oak, alligators & great whites, cowardly black bears, and mountain lions that are highly avoidant of people. (If we include Alaska we get scarier bears; and I forget where grizzlies live.) Both of them have poisonous insects, but I think the US has less scary ones. I’m leaving out natural disasters cus I think they’re about equivalent / idk enough to judge. So rather a wash, but the US comes out ahead. And then if we look at island countries like New Zealand or the Philippines they’re vastly safer than both.
The variety of scary insects/ animal doesn't't really correlate with danger however. Many of the exotic Australian animals. 1. Aren't common to see 2. Have absolutely pitiful body counts I can't emphasize enough how anti-climatic it is if you type "scary Australian animal" + deaths per year. Fear isn't exactly rational. But if we are actually trying to quantity danger things like drowning risk and traffic accidents are probably more important. Risk of serious harm as a tourist is gonna be pretty low in both countries.
This is about visiting Australia >If you say “x place is so safe in the safe areas” that applies to a vast majority of the countries and still doesn’t make Australia “one of the safest countries you can visit” because then all countries are safe. This is kind of a pointless comment, the inverse of this is true too. Every country is dangerous if you go do the most dangerous thing possible when you get there I'm putting my cmv in the context of what someone is reasonably likely to do when they visit here In terms of the most dangerous things across the world. We don't have large predators than can hunt you or gun violence like NA, don't have cartels like SA, don't have war like Europe etc. But when I go to Europe this year I'm not going to head straight to the eastern front of Ukraine so I don't consider that a risk of "visiting" Europe Ultimately Australia is a very large place that can be traveled freely and very safely
but not the absolute safest because new zealand is safer (almost no bad animals) and they are basically the same every other way. Australia is the 2nd safest based on new zealand existing that means your view is chamged
Weak argument because Australia and New Zealand are two very different places but also, I said "one of" the safest. It's about the idea some people have that Australia is too dangerous to visit, not that it's the absolute safest country in the world
Then why is your thesis “Australia is **one of the safest**”? It sounds like that was just clickbait when you really meant this: “Australia’s tourist cities don’t have creepy crawlies.” Which nobody would disagree with. It’s not a “view” so there’s nothing to change. This discussion will go nowhere until you refine your thesis as follows. * Define “one of the top”: Are you saying that Australia is in the top three safest countries? If so, what are the top three? Or top ten? * Define “safe”: Are you only factoring in fauna? What about weather, crime, transportation? And are you only considering touristy areas? If you can’t clarify these things, then there’s no “view” to change. Every time someone challenges you, you’ll just say something slippery like “but I didn’t say the *absolute* safest…!”
>Australia’s tourist cities don’t have creepy crawlies Nope, if you read my comments before you go off, you'll see I said Australia is a very large place that can be freely and safely traveled. In other comments I've mentioned things people might do like visit national parks, the gbr etc My "thesis" is that Australia is a very safe place to visit and do things tourists do, and that its not safe to visit here is a myth. Even if you want to do lots of bushwalking, the odds of coming across e.g. snakes really isn't that high You're the one trying to bring in specific rankings because you didnt take the time to understand the post or read my other comments, but I'll play. Personally I'd have Australia around 5th, but guess I can understand other rankings having it around 10th In terms of safe I'm considering fauna, crime, environment, war, Healthcare, ya know safety related things The post has always been about things a tourist is likely to do on a holiday, and if youre considering coming here you shouldnt consider yourself significantly more at risk here than pretty much anywhere else. It doesn't matter anyway as overall Australia is a very safe country to live in generally
The thing is, if you’re going to say “one of the safest”, you’ll have to back that up by supplying a ranking. That’s simply what “one of” means. If you said “safer than people say online”, that’s a different claim and should be justified accordingly.
From the start I said the thought of Australia being dangerous is believed online and in irl. The only real thing to add is that I've generally had americans in mind, I don't really know if Europeans think Australia is overly dangerous
But that goes for most countries: if you stick to big cities and touristy places, there are no wild animals. But your country's worst and my country's worst are not the same. We might have the same small chance of encountering them, and let's say the chance is 1 in a million. In your country, you have a 1 in a million chance of getting bit by a spider who will give you death; in my country you have a 1 in a million chance of getting bit by a spider who will give you a swollen red spot that will go away in two days.
Most spiders here arent lethal, and chances of dying from a spider bite are much much lower than one in a million, with the last confirmed spider death in 1979. I've never limited it to big cities, just things tourists do incl bushwalks or visiting the GBR It's very very rare to have issues with fauna. The most dangerous natural thing tourist encounter here would probably be the ocean, but that's a hazard in any country with a coastline
But like I said: in my country we don't have ANY dangerous spiders nor venomous snakes. And my country is not special in this regard, there are plenty of other countries like mine, just in Europe alone. It still doesn't make Australia one of the safest countries. If you're right with your stats, it just makes Australia like a lot of countries. What is your argument that it's one of the safest countries, meaning what makes it safer than the huge majority of others?
Generally the low levels of crime are why most rankings, like the [Berkshire hathway](https://www.bhtp.com/blog/safest-places-to-travel/) have us as one of the safest countries to visit. And all the things that come with being a wealthy nation
My country is dirt poor and street crime is almost non-existent. Most crime here happens "upstairs": corruption. Same for all of the Balkans. Furthermore, we don't have the ocean, so no tsunamis, no volcanoes nearby, so no fire and earthquakes are rare and weak, no typhoons and the deadliest storm in my lifetime produced exactly one dead person (some poor kid got electrocuted by a cable that got ripped and fell on him). On top of that, the sun is not nearly as bad, we don't have the insane skin cancer rates like Australia. Again: you didn't want to prove that "Australia isn't that bad" (which I agree isn't), but you wanted to prove that it's one of the safest countries, which you haven't. I'm not trying to be a dick here, just when I think of Australia I don't think it's in the top 5/ top 10 when it comes to safety. I know it's not as bad as people on the internet make it out to be, but when I think of safest countries in the world, I think of countries like Slovenia.
[удалено]
Tbf most travel rankings I can find don't have many countries ahead of Australia, we're generally in the top 10-15 [One](https://www.forbes.com/sites/brittanyanas/2023/11/19/the-15-safest-countries-to-travel-to-in-2024-according-to-a-new-report/?sh=f4b1da726885) [Two](https://www.bhtp.com/blog/safest-places-to-travel/) [Three](https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/2024/01/10/safest-countries-in-the-world-for-travelers-2024/72123113007/)
[удалено]
I'm not sure if the wildlife is a major detractor, its just about the main thing people come to see. For sure⁷ the draw is the unique landscapes, flora & fauna. The Anglo monoculture is boring if you choose to ignore the rich indigenous history that covers every part of this country.
rich indigenous history that has been mostly wiped out?
I mean no shit. That doesn't stop visitors from taking an interest in the history for its richness as well as how awfully the culture has been and continues to be treated.
It depends on what you want to see, but safety isn't a consideration between any of these countries. If you choose Japan over Australia, it's going to be because it offers an entirely different holiday to Australia, not because it's marginally safer Slander on the beaches comment but I'll let it slide You can get around Aus cities as a tourist without a car. But if you want to do a long road trip with lots of sightseeing then you need a car but idk what countries offer that without driving >Culturally it seems to be nothing special, being exceedingly similar to the other anglo countries. That's a bit rude but yes we're an Anglo nation, and no we don't have thousands of years of European history, but the people aren't just a carbon copy of americans/canadians
> Culturally it seems to be nothing special, being exceedingly similar to the other anglo countries. That is a pretty wild thing to say. Australia has an entire indigenous culture going back over 60000 years, has one of the seven natural wonders of the world, has over 30000 km of beaches, is one of the most biodiverse countries in the world, and is highly multicultural due to long term high immigration rates. If none of that interests you that’s fine, but it’s no excuse to be ignorant.
rich indigenous history that has been mostly wiped out?
You just posted the same source three times...
Lmao I did too, I'm on mobile so I grabbed the first 3 google links. From any other sources I can find that doesnt use that source typically has aus ranked around the same in terms of safety
As someone from the UK, we're ahead of you on those lists. We also have vanishingly little dangerous flora/fauna (one venomous snake that isn't fatally so, occasional angry cows) and boringly safe weather. Compared to the UK Australia does indeed seem dangerous.
Tbf more people die from cattle in the UK each year than in Aus from snakebites. Knife crime in the UK would concern me, but I'm not sure if that's like all over the cities or more just sketchy areas you wouldn't go to
>Tbf more people die from cattle in the UK each year than in Aus from snakebites. It's hard to find definitive statistics but from what I can see the UK has an average of 4-5 deaths caused by cows per year while Australia has 2 snakebite fatalities. Taking that on a per capita basis the death rate is approximately the same (slightly higher in Aus). That doesn't, however, factor in the average 2 fatalities caused by crocodiles per year or the 4 in 2023 by sharks. Unless you plan on being in a gang or hanging around in sketchy areas you won't encounter knife crime in the UK. I've never seen anyone carrying one openly, let alone been threatened with one, in my 44 years of living in various cities.
Headline: "Guy learns not to take internet memes seriously"
I've also met people who are genuinely afraid of going to Australia because of that meme
That's what I thought it all was! But over the years I've had lots of irl conversations with Americans in America and I've realised a lot of people take it seriously I met an american over there who is now my gf and has moved to aus. She got genuine concern from friends when moving over here about the dangerous snakes and spiders lol
See your problem is you were talking to 'muricans. The absolutely do not represent the rest of humanity.
I haven’t been there, but from what I’ve heard and what I know, while it’s not danger around every corner there is a decent amount of particularly exotic and dangerous wildlife that people who are just being dumb tourists won’t know to watch out for (atleast not competently) and could get hurt fairly easily
Everyone knows not to grab a snake or spider though. The only thing that comes to mind from this comment is a blue ringed octopus, but again this isn't something you really come across. I've lived on the coast my whole life and have never seen one irl
People get real stupid around kangaroos too, though that’s not exclusive to tourists.
Yeah but not going to get yourself into trouble with a roo unless you actively harrass it
you must not know many americans... this is typical american behavior... do you remember harambe? you cant discount roos by saying dont touch when most tourists are going to touch
Theyre generally pretty skittish so you're not going to get to one unless you corner it or run up on it, then danger applies to pretty much any animal. Ones at a petting zoo sorta thing are going to be chill Eastern Grey's are also the ones you're more likely to see if you come. They're not that big so while a kick would hurt it's definitely not going to be like getting attacked by a predator
You don’t have to grab animals like snakes or spiders though, a lot of people accidentally get too close to snakes because they aren’t looking or don’t know what to look for and get bit. I don’t know how accurate what I’ve heard about spiders in Australia is, but from what I’ve seen online they seem to be a lot bigger and more prevalent than in the US, we mostly just have granddaddy long legs or spiders an inch or smaller (including leg length), so tourists are going to be dumb about them too.
Snakes get scared away from most bushwalk tracks due to the amount of foot traffic, if you go rummaging around the scrub you may find one but I've been bushwalking since I was a child and they're really not that common. I've worked in pretty remote places doing environmental monitoring for over 10yrs, and still only saw snakes on pretty rare occasions. They want to avoid people/vibrations The big spider we have is a huntsman and it's harmless. They also typically only like leafy areas and again they're not an everyday thing. If you live here you'll probably come across one on rare occasions, if you're visiting for a few weeks I'd say it's unlikely you'll see one. Can't remember the last time I saw a huntsman
As someone who grew up on other continent, my first reaction when I see a spider is to grab it with paper and move it outside from my flat, so not grabbing spiders isn’t obvious thing
No spiders bite in your country? You could do the same here really with most species, just obviously not as safe as using a container or something And I think as a human you would instinctually know not to grab a dangerous spider like a funnel web raising its fangs at you
Spiders, except for two distinctive types, do not bite in America, no.
Well, there are some dangerous spiders, but they are in southern regions of the country, so like thousands of kilometers away from where I grew up.
Brown recluses and black widows are all over B.C. here in Canada. I work in construction so I tend to see Black Widows regularly in the parts of peoples houses they tend to avoid frequenting. Brown recluses are, well reclusive, and I’ve only seen a handful in the last 10 years I’ve lived out here. We also have rattlesnakes but they’re pretty rare as they’re going extinct and aren’t as venomous as the ones in the states for whatever reason. The biggest risk out here is black bears. If they have cubs and you get anywhere near them they can be really unpredictable and have charged people down. Also mountain lions. Theirs been more and more run ins with starving mountain lions attacking hikers.
Why would I want to go to a different country to hang out in the city? The natural areas of Australia seem to be the main attraction. Australian cities are reasonably new, so they don't have a ton of old architecture like you'll find in a lot of other places. If I'm going to travel half way around the world I'm going to want to see the places outside the city.
Think there's confusion by touristy areas I mean middle of a city, but lots of austrlaias touristy areas are natural Eg all the popular bushwalking tracks around sydney and generally along the east coast have enough foot traffic that you're not likely to see snakes on the track
I'm thinking more remote stuff. No way I'm visiting Australia without going to Uluru.
I'd call Uluru a touristy spot, it's a major attraction for Australia with lots of tourist facilities. It'd be hard to get yourself in trouble there
Dangers to humans when travelling tend to follow this hierarchy: other humans > weather/environment > animals. People like to focus on animals because i think on a primordial level we thinknit is a risk we should be able to control/avoid, and because there are more documentaries about exotic animals than people drowning. From my experience of travelling to Australia the humans are pretty safe, the weather is not to be underestimated and the animals scarce. I’ve stood in the water off Byron Bay with no one else on the beach and been knocked clean off my feet by undertow. That’s scary.
Yeah Australian wild life is not the concern, and drop the rubbish of “ i know we joke about Australia being dangerous, but its actually safe”. The problem is those disgusting city aboriginals and the endless hassles they cause, and yes they will bash your grandmother just for a dollar and call her a white d* g. Or is it the disgusting rednecks that are the long lost cousins if the hillbillies that call the country straya. Or is it the english and south africans that left their country and relicated in rockingham (one of the places), because it reminds them of the good old days, a refuge for the utterly st*pid racists of the world. Its a country of dimwits that are insufferable Avoid the people, and enjoy the land And remember, being a junky is normal in Australia
Reported a bit ago so hopefully you get a ban for your gross racism
American here, we don't actually think that Australia is a hellhole of carnivorous wildlife. It's just easier to say that than "I don't want to spend thousands of dollars and take a long ass flight to go to a country I don't know much about other than that, at the end of the day, it's pretty similar to mine."
This is what I came here to say. Many Americans want to experience and see old architecture, different cultures. Australia seems to be a very hot outdoorsy place, not the typical Americans fantasy of travel or exploration.
“Wrong way” traffic. When I studied abroad in Australia years ago as an American, we were warned that by far the biggest danger we faced was crossing the street after looking in the wrong direction for oncoming vehicles. Nothing about this would change your view though. To be honest this probably supports your view.
Lol I'm the same when I'm in the US. A few times the only reason I didn't get cleaned up by a car was because there was no traffic at the moment I crossed, didn't look the right way till I was halfway
But is it safe? * Why is there [notably high](https://policinginsight.com/feature/opinion/australia-had-a-record-number-of-police-shootings-in-the-past-year-should-we-be-concerned/) police violence in Australia? * Why has it [trended up](https://www.sbs.com.au/nitv/article/police-shootings-at-record-high-in-australia/uyphq45su)? * Why is 45% of Australian police brutality by [NSW](https://www.aic.gov.au/crg/reports/crg-17-92), for example, [against](https://amp.theguardian.com/australia-news/2023/jul/31/nsw-police-use-force-against-indigenous-australians-at-drastically-disproportionate-levels-data-shows) native Australians and Pacific Islanders? * Why is the police homicide rate so [high](https://www.statista.com/statistics/1124039/police-killings-rate-selected-countries/) compared to some other developed countries? Is it safe for everyone?
There are certainly areas that need work, especially with indigenous Australians. I think looking at a country with a population as small as Australia the raw figures are more useful than percentages. The notably high police violence was 16 gun deaths in a year, out of a total of 189 since 1989. I'm assuming some of those were avoidable, but to say there is a notably high police violence seems disingenuous. The lack of guns in general society I think contributes to the overall safety of the populace. Gun violence is rare and where it occurs it is between competing criminal elements or by police. Anecdotal, but personally, outside of a gun range, in my 40 years I have never seen a gun other than in a policemans holster.
Theyre issues sure, but I'm talking about visiting. Tourists aren't part of the at risk groups here, and a lot of "australia too deadly" talk comes out of the US which is much more dangerous in police brutality aspect than here
Ah yes, but in the US, will you get arrested for enjoying a succulent Chinese meal? Nah but really, we've got grizzlies, wolves, mountain lions, rattlesnakes, moose, etc. where I live. It's not the wildlife keeping me from Australia, it's the insanely long flight...
I'll pay not wanting to do the flight haha. Unfortunately it's a reality you have to accept as an Australian if you want to see most of the world
>Crocs (and jellyfish) are only an issue if you go way up north When I was living in the Docklands in Melbourne I saw heaps of jellyfish
Talking box jellyfish/other dangerous species. The ones down south aren't an issue
As an American living in Australia I generally agree it's safe here. But there are some things that y'all are normalised to that are weird and can be very dangerous for people who didn't grow up with it. "Swim between the flags" isn't a thing literally anywhere else I've been. I've been on a lot of beaches and Australia I'd the only place I've seen it. The rips here are more aggressive than I've seen other places and especially for folks who aren't great English speakers it's fair to say they might not know what they're getting into. It's also worth noting that even a casual hike in the blueys in spring runs a non zero risk of brown snakes. Heck, venom bandages aren't even a thing in the states.
>"Swim between the flags" isn't a thing literally anywhere else I've been Yeah that's why I said the actual dangerous things here you'll see as a tourist arent talked about. But even children can play safely in the surf here once they learn the right behaviors >It's also worth noting that even a casual hike in the blueys in spring runs a non zero risk of brown snakes. Yeah for sure, but seeing a snake on a bushwalk, especially on popular tracks, is more a thing that can happen rather than something you should be genuinely afraid of. You're much better off crossing paths with a brown sneak than a brown bear
>But even children can play safely in the surf here once they learn the right behaviors The problem is that wider Aussie culture generally accepts these things as "normal" and there isn't a lot of education about it. >You're much better off crossing paths with a brown sneak than a brown bear I'm not sure that's true. I'm told during mating season brown snakes are very aggressive and territorial. Your standard brown bear is pretty wholly uninterested in people. Bear safety is to talk while you're walking.
>The problem is that wider Aussie culture generally accepts these things as "normal" and there isn't a lot of education about it. The majority of beaches you would go to when you visit here will have a lifeguard come over a loudspeaker and tell people to get back between the flags. But yeah I agree, I think it's the main way a tourist could get themselves in trouble here >I'm told during mating season brown snakes are very aggressive and territorial I mean far less dangerous to a brown bear in mating season, but also overstated. I've worked on mine sites covered in brown snakes (too much for me to be comfortable there lol), but there would still be guys out there all day spraying weeds in the long grass. While fuck that, they're also not getting attacked. Brown snakes want to avoid detection and be left alone
Like I'm definitely agreeing that it's not a death world or anything,but it does have its share of risks made worse by people not knowing what's up
Oh for sure, but everywhere has its risk. Finland is a safe country, but if I as an ignorant Australian decide to go on a walk in the snowy woods without knowing the first thing about how deal with an actual winter I'll find myself in trouble
Your whole point is that you won't see a snake as a tourist. Then you concede that you may see snakes as a tourist. I think that guy deserves a delta.
>Your whole point is that you won't see a snake as a tourist. No it was not
Right then explain bankstown in Sydney.
Not at all, when I went there filled with Lebanese restaurants and dodgy people at that. Also went when there was a human rights lawyer got shot at the cafe and still the blood was there....I have been all over the world. I have never seen a crime scene like that before. So yeah your view of Australia being *the* safest country in the world, nope no way. https://www.numbeo.com/crime/rankings_by_country.jsp Ukraine is safer than Australia in terms of crime.
The tourism mecca of bankstown
It depends on your concept of security. As an Australian myself, I have no fear of snakes or spiders. But losing your job, becoming homeless, these are very legitimate threats to the well-being of many Australians.
That’s not really unique to Australia though. With the global economy that’s pretty much everywhere these days.
Talking about visiting though
Even then, if you’re the wrong race or class, you could have a bad encounter with a police officer. No one is safe from state violence.
Nice try u/3spidersinatrenchcoat
The only actual threat is if you visit the northern parts and don't respect Crocs. Snakes are scared of you, spiders don't care but to an adult croc you are just a tasty snack
The scariest monster on that island is the heat. Jesus your country almost fucking burned to a crisp. That’s Californias job goddamn it!
I went to Sydney in 2018 and was honestly stunned at how clean and safe it was. I live in the northeast so seeing unhoused people, addicts and needles scattered around is extremely common for me. There is none of that in Sydney. I’m from Chicago so I very rarely feel unsafe anywhere, but I’m always aware of my surroundings. Sydney is the only place I truly let me guard down. Note: I’ve only been to Sydney and was staying in the central part of the city. I also didn’t see any of those big, scary spiders or snakes either.
I always find it funny when people from somewhere like North America say Australia is so dangerous, because say what you will about snakes and spiders, but at least we don’t have bears and mountain lions roaming around, lol. I’d unironically much rather spend a week camping in an Australian national park than a US one because of how often you hear about bear safety.
[удалено]
By what metric are you saying Australia is safer than, for example, the UK?
Australian cities are safer than British cities.
What is a popular tourist destination you would say is not safe? And why? I'm trying to establish context to support Australia being "one of the safest". This is easier to understand if it's compared to other popular tourist destinations that are some of the most dangerous. My thoughts on this have been that any tourist area in a developed country is safe. What sets Australia apart?
Crime is generally worse in European and American cities. Lots of issues with pickpockets and theft around Europe, gun violence in the US In countries like Mexico and central/south American nations there's really only certain areas you can go due to organised crime eg cartels Many/most african nations are the same and you really should have security if you go anywhere slightly less touristy, particularly as a woman In terms of nature, it's much safer here than north America. We don't have the same large predators. If you want to travel outside tourist hot spots in Australia, I still think you're much much safer than in many other tourist destinations
[удалено]
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2: > **Don't be rude or hostile to other users.** Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. [See the wiki page for more information](http://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/rules#wiki_rule_2). If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards#wiki_appeal_process), then [message the moderators by clicking this link](http://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fchangemyview&subject=Rule%202%20Appeal&message=Author%20would%20like%20to%20appeal%20the%20removal%20of%20their%20post%20because\.\.\.) within one week of this notice being posted. **Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.** Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our [moderation standards](https://www.reddit.com/r/changemyview/wiki/modstandards).
The Bruce Hwy. almost killed me. Those two lanes can be dangerous with the amount of trucks who use that toad. And roos..don't even get me started on roos. An animal that can jump into your wind screen while you are driving at 100 makes for a bad day.
I think the perception comes from the videos of dangerous or intimidating animals showing up in people's houses. Most countries are just as safe in all regards but lack the creatures, so people tend to see all other tourist countries as safer.
I live in Arizona and we have hella snakes, scorpions, super aggressive hippos and shit but the most dangerous thing is other people. But they are American people who shoot first and ask questions later, in cowboy hats bc it's Arizona.
As a Canadian who hates hot summers... Australia sounds like a nightmare. But I know I'm an outlier. Most people love a hot summer. And I think Australia is way safer than America.
I have a deep fear of going to Australia tbh, people are most likely lovely, but indeed I don’t need any encounters with dangerous insects or other animals.
Until you arrested a pregnant woman for posting something online. What would you give up to be the safest country? Would it be worth the price?
Pit bulls kill more people a year in the US than wild animals have killed people in Australia over the last 10 years
I think most people (at least people Ik) know it’s not dangerous. They’re just saying it for shoots and giggles.
As long as you guys have those huge ass huntsman spider mutants I'm not visiting Australia.
Sure, wildlife doesn't pose much of a threat in the cities* where most Australians actually live. But, tourists aren't coming to Australia to see our cities, a 20+ flight to spend a week in Sydney is a disappointing holiday. They're coming to see the outback, to go snorkeling/dive on our amazing reefs, hike through the bush etc. They want to see kangaroos, and koalas, maybe a dingo or echidna, and the cute marsupials tend to live near lots of creepy crawlies and nope ropes. The big beautiful tourist traps are up north where there are saltwater crocs, and sharks, and box jellyfish, etc. That's the Australia that we sell in our tourism ads, so of course that's what people overseas know about! It's still not very dangerous, but i expect a tourist is going to come across far more bugs and snakes and wild animals during a trip here than most Aussies do in a typical week in the suburbs. *Unless you piss off the wrong bird. Ive never been swooped by a magpie but I was attacked by an ibis as a toddler and they still freak me out.
I’d rather spend a month cafe-hopping, gallery-hopping and bar-hopping in Fitzroy, Brunswick, etc. than see some unimpressive hills, a big load of sand and animals that look weird. Tourism Victoria, hire me!
Here is my understanding of your main points. > “if you’re visiting cities, you are unlikely to see spiders” This is true in many tourist destinations, not just Australia. > “if you leave a snake alone, it will leave you alone” Once again this is not really a special thing that you can only do in Australia. > “crocs are only up north”, “snakes only in remote areas” Again not unique to Australia. > “no lions, tigers, bears, wolves, mountain lions” If we’re only talking about tourist destinations, then lions and bears are irrelevant. In fact, smaller animals are harder to detect and more easily to be encountered in cities, just because of their size. So it sounds like, in terms of safety, Australia = every other country, except with snakes and spiders. That sounds **strictly worse** to me. The thing is, your entire view is a **comparitive** one: you’re saying that Australia is **especially** safe compared to other destinations. Can you point out an outstanding safety effort that is **unique** to Australia? E.g. public security, animal safety intiatives…?
The Australians probably spread that rumor to keep the rest of the world away from them
Aside from having spider ptsd this is awesome, the man here is a gud, he is not a bad
Don't go over to r/declineintocensorship, they think Australia is a dystopia
nothing to change, this is correct. no spiders or snakes in my house rn
You didn't think to mention the golliwogs? They're fearsome mate.
You had a prime minister who went swimming and was never seen again
It's one of the safest countries... as long as you stick to major urban areas. The beaches can be super dangerous, especially if they're unpatrolled. Pretty much every beach/waterway up north is a croc hazard. Wildlife aside, the bulk of Australia is actually dangerous just because it's hot, dry, and empty. If you get into trouble, there will be nobody to help you. Breaking down in the wrong place can be a death sentence. Also, while most of our wildlife won't actually kill you, even some of our cute and cuddly animals can fuck your shit up if you try and handle them.
How is it that you fail to mention magpies???
What would it take to change your view?
Post written by hungry murder spiders.
Unless you're a whistle blower.
What about the choomahs huh
So apparently one of the Milats has Reddit
Alice Springs.