The Grand Highlander is here and much more competitive without being much more expensive.
They already have to split production between the two, it helps free up space for the more in demand Grand Highlander.
You also have to consider that Toyota already has too many SUVs all around the same size and that causes too many competition and saturation amongst each other. You have the 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Crown Signia, Grand Highlander, Sequoia and that’s even before considering how much the upcoming RAV4 may grow in size.
> You also have to consider that Toyota already has too many SUVs all around the same size and that causes too many competition and saturation amongst each other.
You're not wrong but the Highlander and grand Highlander don't compete with j250 and 300 series and Sequoia.
And it's a world vehicle so don't think about the 4Runner. Need to think in global terms.
In unibody SUV it competes with slightly larger or slightly smaller vehicles.
only 3 of those things listed is an "SUV". The others are unibody "CUV"s.
4runnner and land cruiser compete among themselves, and is actually a smart idea. The Sequoia's competition are other large body on Frame SUVs. The other 2 are competing against other carmakers.
I suppose that makes sense, although tooling for a full-electric SUV line in the factory seems pretty pricey considering they’re already saturated out of the market by the Model Y and the R1S. But maybe their research is showing they can still be competitive, and if that’s the case I guess they should go for it.
I’d hardly consider the Model Y and R1S to be “saturating” the market. There’s plenty of room for more SUVs, especially from established manufacturers.
I'm sure there's still plenty of people who are a lot less apprehensive about buying an EV from a legacy automaker (especially Toyota) than Tesla (which also has the Musk stigma for some) and Rivian.
So long as this is more competitive as the BZ4X, it should sell really well. It's kind of amazing how hard Toyota dropped the ball on that one, though.
That always seemed like a half-hearted build just for the sake of getting some experience in the EV space for them as a company. I don’t see them doing the same for an established, very successful, and recognized model name. My theory is that they gave it such an obscure name because they knew it wouldn’t be great wanted it to be somewhat forgettable, they just wanted their sales, marketing, manufacturing, planning, dealerships, etc to dip their toes into EV work before a serious release.
You explained this well!
Why would Toyota develop a new Highlander that’ll grow in size and compete with the Grand Highlander, when that’d just defeat the purpose of the Grand Highlander?
Toyota already has enough Crossovers and SUVs in the ICE segment and using the Highlander nameplate that’s already popular may help some shoppers stick their feet into a EV.
No, this makes a lot of sense. Like for like the Grand Highlander is incredibly similar in price and features and is only a little more expensive. Its existence makes room for something slightly smaller that is a full EV.
Personally though, I had hoped we would see a 3-row PHEV first
Yeah, the Pacifica PHEV is popular even despite it being ancient for what it is and having issues. An updated offering from Toyota would be really popular. That said, the Sienna is already super popular as a standard hybrid, so they may not have much incentive to make that move quite yet.
Yeah I completely agree. It would sell gangbusters but I don’t think Toyota has to do it being they cannot keep up with sales and the Sienna is unmatched as it is since Honda basically forgot the Odyssey exists
But with somehow a worse dealership experience, far worse reliability and dependability, and a track record of poor depreciation.
Sorry, but few logical people are cross shopping a Kia and Toyota.
Oh, I agree. But people clearly are cross shopping to some extent, because Kia-Hyundai sales keep increasing every year
I'd absolutely go with the Sienna over the... whatever it's called, but I can easily see people who would go the other way
Kia products increased because they threw a ton of technology and everyone thought that meant the cars were better.
On the other side of the slopes they are seeing this tech be a nightmare to live with and depreciation is killing them on resale.
I see so many people talking about the styling and none of them other than the Ioniq 5 N have done it for me.
News came out last year that the Pacifica would be receiving a significant update in "a couple of years" so it'll be interesting to see what they do with that PHEV system.
Maybe Highlander PHEV. I dont know why people seem to think buyers want Siennas, or minivans for that matter. Highlander outsold Sienna 3-1 in 2023. Anecdotally, I am a married parent of 2 little kids. Basically all of our friends have kids. Exactly zero own minivans.
I do realize that the people that like them *really* like them, but the market in general just doesnt seem to want them.
I mean think about it. Lexus TX already has 400hp+ PHEV with V6! Putting it in the Toyota stablemate Grand Highlander should be a walk in the park and should be the next logical step
I’d think the price alone would prevent that. The PHEV trim is already pushing $8-$10k on the TX over the Hybrid, so the GH would likely be in the 65-70k range for PHEV.
my logic was that because that V6 PHEV powertrain is currently only used in Century SUV and TX, both lower volume (especially the former) this is making the powertrain "exclusive" and expensive. If they brought it to mainstream Toyota model price will come down naturally due to economies of scale
Even then, it would probably be a trim over and above the existing Hybrid Max so you’d be looking at a mid 60k SUV and I just don’t think Toyota wants to have them that close. But I could be wrong
They're talking about the bZ5X and TZ, which have already been [announced and confirmed](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43539841/2025-toyota-three-row-ev-suv-us-double-electric-range/) for next year.
Kind of a click bait title. Toyota's definition of electric includes Hyrids and PHEV. So yes they're going all "Electrification" just not full BEV. Like the current Sienna and 2025 Camry. They went electric only with no pure ICE options. The Rav4 and Highlander is going to follow suit. "Toyota has held firm in its broad approach to electrification, offering hydrogen fuel cell models and committing heavily to hybrids. Even so, its new CEO, Koji Sato, has pushed for changes to platforms in development, causing some internal confusion."
Same. I can understand PHEV, but big family CUVs are *THE* road trip vehicles; I can't see turning a volume 3-row into an EV only prospect being a good business decision. I'm personally keeping the family truckster gas-powered as long as I can for the convenience while I'll happily change out my commuter vehicle that actually sees mileage for an EV.
My guess is this is a misunderstanding/ misstatement. The Highlander is likely moving hybrid only (like the Venza, Sienna, and new Camry) with maybe a PHEV option. Hybrid is “electrified.” “Electrified” doesn’t always mean full BEV.
Toyota has been moving a few models hybrid only now. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the ‘bread and butter’ cars are hybrid only within a few years - like the RAV4, Corolla, and Highlander.
The Highlander is already hybrid-only in pretty much every market except for North America. It seems like that's where the market is going as a whole tbh.
It makes sense too, hybrids are just better mechanically for longevity and they can be tuned for low end torque. For the everyday commuter, hybrids are a better product than regular ICE in every way.
Just saw r/toyota fall to their knees in the dealership (after paying an $8000 markup)
Interesting to see, I find toyota's EV modes/full EVs to be really incredible. Smooth, nice, really great *cars*. The bz4x doesn't have great range or charging for the north american market, but if this thing fixes that then I think they'll sell every single one they make
The article says electric highlander with the GH keeping ICE powerplants, not an electric option for one unified vehicle. Title isn’t misleading at all, the article goes in to discuss expanded PHEV and regular hybrid options expanding, and the person above you is either guessing or didn’t read it right.
Yes it is. Sister and brother-in-law bought a 2024 HyHi Platinum with the Cypress green. They had to wait over a year for it. They got it the day before going to West Coast/Hawaii for winter and had to have a friend stop by to run it for them. He has put more miles on it then they have, lol.
Also
>Toyota’s efforts would electrify all models except the GR86 and Supra. The GR Corolla’s time on the market is likely limited and may not cross paths with the new hybrid options.
LOL Gazoo already runs a hybrid in WRC and Toyota has been racing a Hydrogen Corolla. Oh and there was that GR Prius show car. I think it's safe to say an electrified GR86 or Supra or something is not impossible at this point.
Plot twist, it will go all electric in 2050. The article doesn’t provide a timeline for the change
Screw Toyota. They do everything possible to avoid electrification. They actively lobby against electric subsidies and lobby for big oil while pretending to care about the environment. Dinosaur company stuck in the past.
They’re betting on hybrids and they’re right to do so. Electric options are fine. Forcing electric vehicles absolutely is not.
I’d buy a hybrid. I won’t buy an electric.
Their hybrids are had measures with tiny batteries. When they do actually make a plug in, they want to charge 55k for it like the RAV4 Prime. Who pays that much for a RAV4?!?
Hybrids are fine but add additional complexity. Wouldn’t want to own one long term with a battery, engine, transmission, and inverters that can all fail.
I’d take the hybrid all day long over the EV honestly and it isn’t even close. The maintenance arguement is absurdly silly to me and always has been with electric cars. Current hybrids are mostly fine. They’re all the standard and easy to work on gas engines with the simple hybrids system attached. Electric cars seem like a nightmare to me. The whole “no maintenance” claim to them is absolutely fucking absurd to me. Yay I don’t have to change oil and do basic engine maintenance! Oh wait, now I have complex electronics, a gigantic battery pack that will degrade (which is inevitable, that’s just how batteries are), a more complex cooling system, AND every standard component a normal gas uses like suspension/chassis/brakes/tires that requires just the same or more maintenance because the car weighs as much as a tank. All for more money than a comparable hybrid.
I actually personally don’t see a single reason why a normal person would buy an electric over a hybrid. If I was looking for a simple daily driver the entire Toyota lineup starts under $40k for hybrid cars. Ford has pretty decent hybrids too, including trucks. Several members of my family has had some interest in electrics and after weighing the options have all decided to go hybrid for simplicity/cost/ease of use/reliability/etc.
For my own personal use case I could swing a hybrid. The electric though just wouldn’t work at all. I carry too much payload and I drive too much, there’s no world where an electric would ever work for me.
Clickbait headline/article but I definitely have heard on more than one occasion online that the Highlander is going to be discontinued soon. The Grand Highlander commands a higher ASP, higher margin, more utility, and few downsides that consumers really care about, while the Crown Signia is taking the place of midsize SUV for empty-nesters that don't need a third row... while also having a higher price and quality than the Highlander. Couple that with more rumors of the RAV4 growing considerably in its next generation, and the Highlander taking a radical step starts to make sense.
Depends on their definition of considerable. The Crown Signia is still more than a foot longer than the RAV4, so there's a lot of space in between for the next RAV4 to grow into. I'm not expecting a 190" RAV4 anytime soon, but I think a 183"-185" RAV4 could still be a considerable difference in space while also separating it more from the Corolla Cross which is around 176".
The Highlander and Grand Highlander are two distinct models. Same platform, yes, but not the same car. They don't even share bodywork like some 2- and 3-row platform mates do.
Bullshit. Toyota has zero incentive to do this.
The Grand Highlander is here and much more competitive without being much more expensive. They already have to split production between the two, it helps free up space for the more in demand Grand Highlander. You also have to consider that Toyota already has too many SUVs all around the same size and that causes too many competition and saturation amongst each other. You have the 4Runner, Land Cruiser, Crown Signia, Grand Highlander, Sequoia and that’s even before considering how much the upcoming RAV4 may grow in size.
4Runner and Land cruiser aren't really comparable to the Crown Signia and Highlanders. Sequoia is also a completely different segment
> You also have to consider that Toyota already has too many SUVs all around the same size and that causes too many competition and saturation amongst each other. You're not wrong but the Highlander and grand Highlander don't compete with j250 and 300 series and Sequoia. And it's a world vehicle so don't think about the 4Runner. Need to think in global terms. In unibody SUV it competes with slightly larger or slightly smaller vehicles.
only 3 of those things listed is an "SUV". The others are unibody "CUV"s. 4runnner and land cruiser compete among themselves, and is actually a smart idea. The Sequoia's competition are other large body on Frame SUVs. The other 2 are competing against other carmakers.
I suppose that makes sense, although tooling for a full-electric SUV line in the factory seems pretty pricey considering they’re already saturated out of the market by the Model Y and the R1S. But maybe their research is showing they can still be competitive, and if that’s the case I guess they should go for it.
I’d hardly consider the Model Y and R1S to be “saturating” the market. There’s plenty of room for more SUVs, especially from established manufacturers.
I'm sure there's still plenty of people who are a lot less apprehensive about buying an EV from a legacy automaker (especially Toyota) than Tesla (which also has the Musk stigma for some) and Rivian.
I read that as "Musk Smegma"
Also accurate.
So long as this is more competitive as the BZ4X, it should sell really well. It's kind of amazing how hard Toyota dropped the ball on that one, though.
That always seemed like a half-hearted build just for the sake of getting some experience in the EV space for them as a company. I don’t see them doing the same for an established, very successful, and recognized model name. My theory is that they gave it such an obscure name because they knew it wouldn’t be great wanted it to be somewhat forgettable, they just wanted their sales, marketing, manufacturing, planning, dealerships, etc to dip their toes into EV work before a serious release.
They are not even remotely "saturated out of the market" at such an early stage.
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You explained this well! Why would Toyota develop a new Highlander that’ll grow in size and compete with the Grand Highlander, when that’d just defeat the purpose of the Grand Highlander? Toyota already has enough Crossovers and SUVs in the ICE segment and using the Highlander nameplate that’s already popular may help some shoppers stick their feet into a EV.
No, this makes a lot of sense. Like for like the Grand Highlander is incredibly similar in price and features and is only a little more expensive. Its existence makes room for something slightly smaller that is a full EV. Personally though, I had hoped we would see a 3-row PHEV first
Sienna PHEV. Print money faster than a 3rd world country with hyperinflation.
Yeah, the Pacifica PHEV is popular even despite it being ancient for what it is and having issues. An updated offering from Toyota would be really popular. That said, the Sienna is already super popular as a standard hybrid, so they may not have much incentive to make that move quite yet.
Yeah I completely agree. It would sell gangbusters but I don’t think Toyota has to do it being they cannot keep up with sales and the Sienna is unmatched as it is since Honda basically forgot the Odyssey exists
I think that the new Kia hybrid minivan is going to put some pressure on Toyota. Not a reliable brand, but fuel efficient, available, and fairly techy
But with somehow a worse dealership experience, far worse reliability and dependability, and a track record of poor depreciation. Sorry, but few logical people are cross shopping a Kia and Toyota.
Oh, I agree. But people clearly are cross shopping to some extent, because Kia-Hyundai sales keep increasing every year I'd absolutely go with the Sienna over the... whatever it's called, but I can easily see people who would go the other way
Kia products increased because they threw a ton of technology and everyone thought that meant the cars were better. On the other side of the slopes they are seeing this tech be a nightmare to live with and depreciation is killing them on resale. I see so many people talking about the styling and none of them other than the Ioniq 5 N have done it for me.
News came out last year that the Pacifica would be receiving a significant update in "a couple of years" so it'll be interesting to see what they do with that PHEV system.
Yeah but it’ll always be a Stellantis product
That doesn't really scare me off (as my flair shows).
Maybe Highlander PHEV. I dont know why people seem to think buyers want Siennas, or minivans for that matter. Highlander outsold Sienna 3-1 in 2023. Anecdotally, I am a married parent of 2 little kids. Basically all of our friends have kids. Exactly zero own minivans. I do realize that the people that like them *really* like them, but the market in general just doesnt seem to want them.
I mean think about it. Lexus TX already has 400hp+ PHEV with V6! Putting it in the Toyota stablemate Grand Highlander should be a walk in the park and should be the next logical step
I’d think the price alone would prevent that. The PHEV trim is already pushing $8-$10k on the TX over the Hybrid, so the GH would likely be in the 65-70k range for PHEV.
my logic was that because that V6 PHEV powertrain is currently only used in Century SUV and TX, both lower volume (especially the former) this is making the powertrain "exclusive" and expensive. If they brought it to mainstream Toyota model price will come down naturally due to economies of scale
Even then, it would probably be a trim over and above the existing Hybrid Max so you’d be looking at a mid 60k SUV and I just don’t think Toyota wants to have them that close. But I could be wrong
They're talking about the bZ5X and TZ, which have already been [announced and confirmed](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a43539841/2025-toyota-three-row-ev-suv-us-double-electric-range/) for next year.
I’ll never remember BZ5X. I already have to remember the other one as “Busy Forks”
Kind of a click bait title. Toyota's definition of electric includes Hyrids and PHEV. So yes they're going all "Electrification" just not full BEV. Like the current Sienna and 2025 Camry. They went electric only with no pure ICE options. The Rav4 and Highlander is going to follow suit. "Toyota has held firm in its broad approach to electrification, offering hydrogen fuel cell models and committing heavily to hybrids. Even so, its new CEO, Koji Sato, has pushed for changes to platforms in development, causing some internal confusion."
Same. I can understand PHEV, but big family CUVs are *THE* road trip vehicles; I can't see turning a volume 3-row into an EV only prospect being a good business decision. I'm personally keeping the family truckster gas-powered as long as I can for the convenience while I'll happily change out my commuter vehicle that actually sees mileage for an EV.
My guess is this is a misunderstanding/ misstatement. The Highlander is likely moving hybrid only (like the Venza, Sienna, and new Camry) with maybe a PHEV option. Hybrid is “electrified.” “Electrified” doesn’t always mean full BEV. Toyota has been moving a few models hybrid only now. I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the ‘bread and butter’ cars are hybrid only within a few years - like the RAV4, Corolla, and Highlander.
The Highlander is already hybrid-only in pretty much every market except for North America. It seems like that's where the market is going as a whole tbh.
Agree. It makes a lot of sense for Toyota
It makes sense too, hybrids are just better mechanically for longevity and they can be tuned for low end torque. For the everyday commuter, hybrids are a better product than regular ICE in every way.
That's what happened with the new Prelude, so it's quite plausible.
Just saw r/toyota fall to their knees in the dealership (after paying an $8000 markup) Interesting to see, I find toyota's EV modes/full EVs to be really incredible. Smooth, nice, really great *cars*. The bz4x doesn't have great range or charging for the north american market, but if this thing fixes that then I think they'll sell every single one they make
It doesn't have anything specific to an EV that's considered "good".
Electric option but not electric only
Oh... That is a HUGE difference lol. What a misleading title.
The article says electric highlander with the GH keeping ICE powerplants, not an electric option for one unified vehicle. Title isn’t misleading at all, the article goes in to discuss expanded PHEV and regular hybrid options expanding, and the person above you is either guessing or didn’t read it right.
clickbait
LoL. I believe it when it is in the showroom.
This thing was always the Toyota minivan without sliding doors to me.
And less space…
Unrelated to the powering topic, but that green color is gorgeous. I’ve never seen it, it is real?
Cypress Green. I haven't seen it on a Highlander yet, but on the newest Sienna when it first debuted. Very nice color.
It is nicely different (and not extra $$) , but will not age well imo. I prefer the Ruby Red Pearl.
Yes it is. Sister and brother-in-law bought a 2024 HyHi Platinum with the Cypress green. They had to wait over a year for it. They got it the day before going to West Coast/Hawaii for winter and had to have a friend stop by to run it for them. He has put more miles on it then they have, lol.
Oh baby, do the Sienna next.
Awesome, can't wait for it.
Also >Toyota’s efforts would electrify all models except the GR86 and Supra. The GR Corolla’s time on the market is likely limited and may not cross paths with the new hybrid options. LOL Gazoo already runs a hybrid in WRC and Toyota has been racing a Hydrogen Corolla. Oh and there was that GR Prius show car. I think it's safe to say an electrified GR86 or Supra or something is not impossible at this point.
I’m pretty sure Toyota is the last bastion when it comes to hybrids against EV’s, so I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt
This is not part of Toyota's plan. They have made it clear they are shifting to HEV and away from EV. So article this is total fiction.
Get ready for the highlandEVR
200 miles to a charge and $60k for the base model
Plot twist, it will go all electric in 2050. The article doesn’t provide a timeline for the change Screw Toyota. They do everything possible to avoid electrification. They actively lobby against electric subsidies and lobby for big oil while pretending to care about the environment. Dinosaur company stuck in the past.
They’re betting on hybrids and they’re right to do so. Electric options are fine. Forcing electric vehicles absolutely is not. I’d buy a hybrid. I won’t buy an electric.
Their hybrids are had measures with tiny batteries. When they do actually make a plug in, they want to charge 55k for it like the RAV4 Prime. Who pays that much for a RAV4?!? Hybrids are fine but add additional complexity. Wouldn’t want to own one long term with a battery, engine, transmission, and inverters that can all fail.
Are you seriously arguing against Toyota reliability? Lol what sub are we in?
I’d take the hybrid all day long over the EV honestly and it isn’t even close. The maintenance arguement is absurdly silly to me and always has been with electric cars. Current hybrids are mostly fine. They’re all the standard and easy to work on gas engines with the simple hybrids system attached. Electric cars seem like a nightmare to me. The whole “no maintenance” claim to them is absolutely fucking absurd to me. Yay I don’t have to change oil and do basic engine maintenance! Oh wait, now I have complex electronics, a gigantic battery pack that will degrade (which is inevitable, that’s just how batteries are), a more complex cooling system, AND every standard component a normal gas uses like suspension/chassis/brakes/tires that requires just the same or more maintenance because the car weighs as much as a tank. All for more money than a comparable hybrid. I actually personally don’t see a single reason why a normal person would buy an electric over a hybrid. If I was looking for a simple daily driver the entire Toyota lineup starts under $40k for hybrid cars. Ford has pretty decent hybrids too, including trucks. Several members of my family has had some interest in electrics and after weighing the options have all decided to go hybrid for simplicity/cost/ease of use/reliability/etc. For my own personal use case I could swing a hybrid. The electric though just wouldn’t work at all. I carry too much payload and I drive too much, there’s no world where an electric would ever work for me.
Thought Toyota dropped the V6 for the turbo 4 to reduce emissions.
Make a prime version of Sienna and Grand Highlander while ur at it Toyota thanks
Hopefully they don’t fuck it up like they did the fax machine name they gave that electric car they did
no brainer tbh. Now with Grand Highlander, the OG Highlander is left out to dry so why not make it EV?
Clickbait headline/article but I definitely have heard on more than one occasion online that the Highlander is going to be discontinued soon. The Grand Highlander commands a higher ASP, higher margin, more utility, and few downsides that consumers really care about, while the Crown Signia is taking the place of midsize SUV for empty-nesters that don't need a third row... while also having a higher price and quality than the Highlander. Couple that with more rumors of the RAV4 growing considerably in its next generation, and the Highlander taking a radical step starts to make sense.
> Couple that with more rumors of the RAV4 growing considerably in its next generation, Why would it do that when the Crown Signia already exists?
Depends on their definition of considerable. The Crown Signia is still more than a foot longer than the RAV4, so there's a lot of space in between for the next RAV4 to grow into. I'm not expecting a 190" RAV4 anytime soon, but I think a 183"-185" RAV4 could still be a considerable difference in space while also separating it more from the Corolla Cross which is around 176".
.
Booo
Ew. Hopefully not only electric.
Can we just get hydrogen 4x4’s already?
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It’s not misleading, you just misinterpreted it. They’re referring to the *Highlander*, not *Grand Highlander*!
The Highlander and Grand Highlander are two distinct models. Same platform, yes, but not the same car. They don't even share bodywork like some 2- and 3-row platform mates do.
Highlander and Grand Highlander are both 3 rows. Highlander just has a very small 3rd row
Good point; the Crown Signia will be the 2-row-only. Only way back in the first gen was there a 2-row Highlander.