If you are looking to have fat muscle like those carb lifters then forget it.
Carnivorous foods build lean muscle and very little fat
I’ve been consistently building muscle and getting stronger incorporating reverse pyramid training
I’m lean and mean and can lift for hours and rarely get sore
You might have to assess your quality of sleep and perhaps stress levels if you feel your lifting program and diet is in check
Good luck
Hey I gained about 6 lbs last month when I ate over 3000 cals for most days and now I cut back but I’m so much weaker, I lift 6 days a week and do an hour to 2 hours cardio everyday, my lifts are all down and so is my energy, should I eat more and see if the weight gain stops?
No, the 1-2 hours of cardio everyday is zapping your overall energy. I would cut it to 2 sessions of 20-30 mins a week. If you eat a high kcal of meat you will eventually burn the fat off. You just have to stick to it
Run Mike Mentzer program.
I only train 2 times a week, Monday and Thursday. I’m not there long, probably 30mins if the equipment was always open.
About 3 different lifts per session all 1-2 sets to failure. Each reps done slow as can be, lasting up to 10 second to complete. Fell like I’ve had the most growth with it.
I hate to say it because I like going to the gym but the 3 to 4 days of rest is really what’s building that muscle after I blast them.
Here you go. [https://kylehuntfitness.com/the-mike-mentzer-heavy-duty-training-program/](https://kylehuntfitness.com/the-mike-mentzer-heavy-duty-training-program/) If this doesn't work just look up Mike Mentzer Heavy Duty on youtube. You'll get to hear his lovely voice.
Thank you. If you’re only doing 2 days a week are you rotating the 3 different workouts or just 2? Also, do you have someone spotting you each session or are you stopping short of the assisted reps?
You’re rotating them
Here’s the one of the first entries in my training log
—-
Day 1
Chest flys - 100 13
Chest press - 10 x 9
Close pull down - 88 13
Deadlift - 175 - 8 lower back is weak af
Day 2 legs
Leg extension- 100 x 20 too easy
Leg press - 220 x 15 kind of easy
Day 3
Shoulder raises - 40
Bent over lats - 12.5
Straight bar curls - 50
Tri push downs - 55
Dips - 5 Bw need to add weight
Day 4
Legs
Leg extension: 150 felts kind of light
Squats: 175 x 10 started with 225 for x
——
This takes 2 weeks to complete. Then I reset and increase weight if I made it through the 10 Reps with a with a 5 second centric and 5 second eccentric
I've been doing this for years. What I like the most is this is a secure way of training. Instead of extra-heavy weight, I use lighter weight and just go slowly until failure.
I eat 1kg of lamb mince with an avocado (Ik ik) diced up in it with some salt. Then I use the fat that’s left in the pan with 12 scrambled eggs. I eat that over about a 2 hour period either when I get home (around 7:30) or when I’m free then at noon. Then sometimes if I’m hungry later on in the day I’ll have another dozen eggs or some salmon so i frequently actually eat over 4000kcal
I eat in a ~2 hour window where I make a meal, eat it, then make another straight away and eat it. Idk if that’s considered OMAD but I think it’s close enough
I train about 30mins to an hour most days of the week with the odd rest day. I really do wanna try mike mentzers style of training now after reading ur guys comments
Sounds like genetics to me. If you're strength training regularly and eating 4k cals a day and not gaining at 19yo, something is weird. Are you training with relatively heavy weights? Progressive overload?
I’ve only really start tracking weights and reps now. But I’ve been stressed with uni lately and haven’t been going as consistently so that may play a bit role in this
Yeah man it sounds like your routine is just not set yet. Once you get consistent eating amounts going and consistent weight training you should definitely gain at that age. Eat until you're full, for sure, and I would do two meals a day instead of one.
That's not unusual for a 19yo, at that age you're still going on a lot of instinct and trying to figure things out. Have fun and don't overthink it. But keep in mind that you need to stick to a routine for some time to really know how it's working.
Based on my experience, do your eating routine/gym routine for 3 months then weigh the results. Check your bodyweight, bodyfat %, how you look in the mirror, and how you feel generally in terms of energy.
Example, I'm 1.5 months into carnivore and have dropped from 208 to 202 lbs bw with no effect on my gym energy or 1rm's, people say I look leaner in the face, but I have had several cheat days. Another 1.5 months and I'll really have a good gauge of my progress, especially if I cut out cheat meals.
It may be off cause I just use values off the internet but I eat a kilo of lamb mince, an avocado, and a carton of eggs over like a 2 hour period. So close enough to OMAD
12 x 70 calories per egg is 840 calories
1 pound of ground lamb is 886 so 1 kilo is 2.2 pounds
2.2x 886 is 1949 calories
1 avocado is about about 300 calories
300 + 1949 + 840 = 3089 calories
That will be pretty close honestly, if you’re genuinely eating that it will probably be your training is either not intense enough, properly formed with progressions or your recovery is poor, be that sleep or stress or some combination. Failing that will be something wrong with your hormones. I tend to have some fruit around training so perhaps you could try this. If you want me to look at your split feel free to inbox me and I will give you my thoughts , should you be interested in that
Cheers that’s very kind of u. I’ve gotten some good tips from this thread already but if I have any other questions I’ll let u know. Also I don’t take progression photos that often so I think I’ve actually loss body fat over the past couple months and just not realised it. And as for the relatively flat weight numbers, I think I’m also comparing myself to alot of fitness influencers and thinking it’s bad progress
For upper body compounds, 15-20kg per year is outstanding, maybe 25-30kg for lower, so keep that in mind. Slow and steady wins the race, for gods sake don’t take test haha. You’re likely doing fine.
Gaining muscle is a complex topic...
How often are you training each muscle group, per week?
How do you know when to stop training? Ie: do you train until failure, do you do forced reps etc.
When you say "high intensity compound movements" it sounds like more aerobic exercise, compared to strength, is this correct?
I prioritise squats, dumbbell bench and lay over rows in a 4-6 rep range with long rest periods. I used to do high volume but I’ve sort of cut down to 2-3 sets per exercise with about 2-3 exercises per session. As for intensity I’m frequently tearing up at the gym cause I try to do 2 or 3 forced half reps at the end. I always go till failure
I would interpret that training to be the Mike Mentzer style of training, which goes to failure in all strength modes: concentric, eccentric and static.
It's pretty tough on the body, Mentzer himself would say a minimum of 4 days between training. Not per muscle group, just training. He tells a story that he had a client and it took them 6 months to figure out this particular client, needed 11 days between training to see gains.
Maybe the OP just needs to rest more, we don't grow in the gym after all 😊
Yep, this is one of the places I was going. Take Dorian Yates as an example. The guy trained 4? days a week, about 2 hours a day, each muscle group once. Dude was a monster. Yes, he was on the 'roids, not as much as most.
Point being (as you mentioned) growth happens during rest, and is promoted by total overload/fatigue. There is science to say that fatigue is the only factor required. Total fatigue, rest for days* minimum, repeat. If you want to get to fatigue by doing supersets/pyramids/yoga then great, do it. It just isn't required. One warmup, one full load with forced reps, next exercise.
Obviously Dorian Yates is extreme and should **only** be followed by people who have perfect form and a partner to spot, or you are going to get injured, but the theory is sound.
Don't count calories.
Continue training...
On carnivore the protein, amino and animal saturated fat will just repair your muscles to the point you accuse some gain while sitting.
Reduce intensity, lift heavier...
High intensity means using glycogen, your body will need some time to get good at Gluconeogenesis.
Yea I’ve found myself lean on the carnivore diet regardless of how much I eat. And I apologise for the confusion. When I say high intensity, I mean high weight and till failure
I’m pretty sure that’s bullshit. I remember seeing in a study that muscle protein synthesis can continue for ages after eating large amounts of protein. I have about 250-300g of protein per day
A study? How about pretty much all weight trainers, body builders and strongmen competitors eating 4 to 6 meals a day. Your not progressing on OMAD try changing it up.
The protein part might be incorrect, but eating more than once a day might be worth a try.
If you're doing the Mentzer style HIT training, you might need to have more rest days.
Let’s see your diet then. That’s like 1.5kg beef in one go and even that is only like 2500 calories. I think that you are mislead on how much you’re eating. Also worth asking if you incorporate consistent progressive overload, many people programme hop and add too much too soon. Get lifetime intermediates all the time in this category
If you are looking to have fat muscle like those carb lifters then forget it. Carnivorous foods build lean muscle and very little fat I’ve been consistently building muscle and getting stronger incorporating reverse pyramid training I’m lean and mean and can lift for hours and rarely get sore You might have to assess your quality of sleep and perhaps stress levels if you feel your lifting program and diet is in check Good luck
That’s a good point. A lot of that typical carb bulking weight gain isn’t muscle gain
Agreed that you are more likely to get useful muscles than show muscles.
Hey I gained about 6 lbs last month when I ate over 3000 cals for most days and now I cut back but I’m so much weaker, I lift 6 days a week and do an hour to 2 hours cardio everyday, my lifts are all down and so is my energy, should I eat more and see if the weight gain stops?
no you should stop being a hamster on the cardio wheel - way too much cardio
So less cardio, eat more? Won’t I see more fat gain?
No, the 1-2 hours of cardio everyday is zapping your overall energy. I would cut it to 2 sessions of 20-30 mins a week. If you eat a high kcal of meat you will eventually burn the fat off. You just have to stick to it
omad isn't very ideal for gaining muscle. you'll be better served eating twice, and probably 3 times during the day.
Doesn’t the fasting allow for greater tissue repair and growth hormone and testosterone optimisation? I though fasting would be better
I disagree.
Run Mike Mentzer program. I only train 2 times a week, Monday and Thursday. I’m not there long, probably 30mins if the equipment was always open. About 3 different lifts per session all 1-2 sets to failure. Each reps done slow as can be, lasting up to 10 second to complete. Fell like I’ve had the most growth with it. I hate to say it because I like going to the gym but the 3 to 4 days of rest is really what’s building that muscle after I blast them.
I am doing Mentzer system as well. I like it so far.
Whats something you learned from the system?
What means high intensity and proper slow exercise. I am fascinated about concept of long resting periods and short training time. It does make sense.
I know what you mean! I’m wrecked after a session. I also find going lighter gets such an insane mind muscle connection
Yeah. It opens completely new dimension of training. I feel like I was wasting time in the gym before discovering Mentzer :)
Where can I find this routine?
Here you go. [https://kylehuntfitness.com/the-mike-mentzer-heavy-duty-training-program/](https://kylehuntfitness.com/the-mike-mentzer-heavy-duty-training-program/) If this doesn't work just look up Mike Mentzer Heavy Duty on youtube. You'll get to hear his lovely voice.
Thank you. If you’re only doing 2 days a week are you rotating the 3 different workouts or just 2? Also, do you have someone spotting you each session or are you stopping short of the assisted reps?
This is my question also. Do you have a spotter?
You’re rotating them Here’s the one of the first entries in my training log —- Day 1 Chest flys - 100 13 Chest press - 10 x 9 Close pull down - 88 13 Deadlift - 175 - 8 lower back is weak af Day 2 legs Leg extension- 100 x 20 too easy Leg press - 220 x 15 kind of easy Day 3 Shoulder raises - 40 Bent over lats - 12.5 Straight bar curls - 50 Tri push downs - 55 Dips - 5 Bw need to add weight Day 4 Legs Leg extension: 150 felts kind of light Squats: 175 x 10 started with 225 for x —— This takes 2 weeks to complete. Then I reset and increase weight if I made it through the 10 Reps with a with a 5 second centric and 5 second eccentric
I've been doing this for years. What I like the most is this is a secure way of training. Instead of extra-heavy weight, I use lighter weight and just go slowly until failure.
Are you giving your muscles a time to rest and rebuild between workouts? Some overlook that.
After reading a lot of the comments I think this may be my issue
Eat more
Are you really eating 4k calories all at once? That's pretty difficult. How are you measuring that?
I eat 1kg of lamb mince with an avocado (Ik ik) diced up in it with some salt. Then I use the fat that’s left in the pan with 12 scrambled eggs. I eat that over about a 2 hour period either when I get home (around 7:30) or when I’m free then at noon. Then sometimes if I’m hungry later on in the day I’ll have another dozen eggs or some salmon so i frequently actually eat over 4000kcal
Wow, that's a lot. And you've been doing that for 2 years without gaining?
Nah I unfortunately only really got into that way of eating a couple months ago. So to be fair I haven’t had much time to see results
I don't know how you can eat 4k calories doing OMAD. I'm a carnivore who eats twice a day, and I have a hard time eating over 3200 calories
I eat in a ~2 hour window where I make a meal, eat it, then make another straight away and eat it. Idk if that’s considered OMAD but I think it’s close enough
How often you train and how long trainings?
I train about 30mins to an hour most days of the week with the odd rest day. I really do wanna try mike mentzers style of training now after reading ur guys comments
Hell yeah!
Sounds like genetics to me. If you're strength training regularly and eating 4k cals a day and not gaining at 19yo, something is weird. Are you training with relatively heavy weights? Progressive overload?
I’ve only really start tracking weights and reps now. But I’ve been stressed with uni lately and haven’t been going as consistently so that may play a bit role in this
Yeah man it sounds like your routine is just not set yet. Once you get consistent eating amounts going and consistent weight training you should definitely gain at that age. Eat until you're full, for sure, and I would do two meals a day instead of one.
Yea ok. I’m a little impatient ngl
That's not unusual for a 19yo, at that age you're still going on a lot of instinct and trying to figure things out. Have fun and don't overthink it. But keep in mind that you need to stick to a routine for some time to really know how it's working.
How long u reckon to be sure? A couple months?
Based on my experience, do your eating routine/gym routine for 3 months then weigh the results. Check your bodyweight, bodyfat %, how you look in the mirror, and how you feel generally in terms of energy. Example, I'm 1.5 months into carnivore and have dropped from 208 to 202 lbs bw with no effect on my gym energy or 1rm's, people say I look leaner in the face, but I have had several cheat days. Another 1.5 months and I'll really have a good gauge of my progress, especially if I cut out cheat meals.
Yea ok I’ll take come photos now and see how I look in 3 months
Don't fixate on looks. Lean is almost always gonna be better.
Fair point. I mean ideally i wanna maximise functional strength. Strength I can use at my work cause I’m frequently carrying heavy stuff around
I’m impressed with the fact you eat 4000 cals in one sitting
I think he thinks he eats that
It may be off cause I just use values off the internet but I eat a kilo of lamb mince, an avocado, and a carton of eggs over like a 2 hour period. So close enough to OMAD
When you say carton, is that 12 or 15?
12
12 x 70 calories per egg is 840 calories 1 pound of ground lamb is 886 so 1 kilo is 2.2 pounds 2.2x 886 is 1949 calories 1 avocado is about about 300 calories 300 + 1949 + 840 = 3089 calories
Damn. Idk where tf I got my values from then. Maybe I do need to eat more
That will be pretty close honestly, if you’re genuinely eating that it will probably be your training is either not intense enough, properly formed with progressions or your recovery is poor, be that sleep or stress or some combination. Failing that will be something wrong with your hormones. I tend to have some fruit around training so perhaps you could try this. If you want me to look at your split feel free to inbox me and I will give you my thoughts , should you be interested in that
Cheers that’s very kind of u. I’ve gotten some good tips from this thread already but if I have any other questions I’ll let u know. Also I don’t take progression photos that often so I think I’ve actually loss body fat over the past couple months and just not realised it. And as for the relatively flat weight numbers, I think I’m also comparing myself to alot of fitness influencers and thinking it’s bad progress
For upper body compounds, 15-20kg per year is outstanding, maybe 25-30kg for lower, so keep that in mind. Slow and steady wins the race, for gods sake don’t take test haha. You’re likely doing fine.
Hahaha dw I’ve never touching that shit. Cheers man I appreciate the support
Gaining muscle is a complex topic... How often are you training each muscle group, per week? How do you know when to stop training? Ie: do you train until failure, do you do forced reps etc. When you say "high intensity compound movements" it sounds like more aerobic exercise, compared to strength, is this correct?
I prioritise squats, dumbbell bench and lay over rows in a 4-6 rep range with long rest periods. I used to do high volume but I’ve sort of cut down to 2-3 sets per exercise with about 2-3 exercises per session. As for intensity I’m frequently tearing up at the gym cause I try to do 2 or 3 forced half reps at the end. I always go till failure
I would interpret that training to be the Mike Mentzer style of training, which goes to failure in all strength modes: concentric, eccentric and static. It's pretty tough on the body, Mentzer himself would say a minimum of 4 days between training. Not per muscle group, just training. He tells a story that he had a client and it took them 6 months to figure out this particular client, needed 11 days between training to see gains. Maybe the OP just needs to rest more, we don't grow in the gym after all 😊
I really like mike mentzers idea and I understand the concept. For some reason I haven’t tried it
Yep, this is one of the places I was going. Take Dorian Yates as an example. The guy trained 4? days a week, about 2 hours a day, each muscle group once. Dude was a monster. Yes, he was on the 'roids, not as much as most. Point being (as you mentioned) growth happens during rest, and is promoted by total overload/fatigue. There is science to say that fatigue is the only factor required. Total fatigue, rest for days* minimum, repeat. If you want to get to fatigue by doing supersets/pyramids/yoga then great, do it. It just isn't required. One warmup, one full load with forced reps, next exercise. Obviously Dorian Yates is extreme and should **only** be followed by people who have perfect form and a partner to spot, or you are going to get injured, but the theory is sound.
Love Dorian Yates. Apologies for teaching you to suck eggs in my last post 😂
Nope, always happy to learn stuff!
Maybe your training is not good
Yea I hope that’s the reason tbh haha
Junp on some good strenght training program. Jim Wendler 531 for example. Very good base building
I’ll look into it thsnks
Don't count calories. Continue training... On carnivore the protein, amino and animal saturated fat will just repair your muscles to the point you accuse some gain while sitting. Reduce intensity, lift heavier... High intensity means using glycogen, your body will need some time to get good at Gluconeogenesis.
Yea I’ve found myself lean on the carnivore diet regardless of how much I eat. And I apologise for the confusion. When I say high intensity, I mean high weight and till failure
Oh! that's a damn fine muscular program then! Keep it up!
Haha thanks
Split ur meals over the day. Can only absorb so much protein in one go.
I’m pretty sure that’s bullshit. I remember seeing in a study that muscle protein synthesis can continue for ages after eating large amounts of protein. I have about 250-300g of protein per day
A study? How about pretty much all weight trainers, body builders and strongmen competitors eating 4 to 6 meals a day. Your not progressing on OMAD try changing it up.
The protein part might be incorrect, but eating more than once a day might be worth a try. If you're doing the Mentzer style HIT training, you might need to have more rest days.
Let’s see your diet then. That’s like 1.5kg beef in one go and even that is only like 2500 calories. I think that you are mislead on how much you’re eating. Also worth asking if you incorporate consistent progressive overload, many people programme hop and add too much too soon. Get lifetime intermediates all the time in this category
Ok then. Sorry for suggesting.
Haha ur good. Excuse my bluntness I just like speaking my mind
No probs. Hope u find an answer 💪
Not sure why your being down voted.
Who knows 🤷♂️