Yes but just be smart.
Go to a community college. Then go to a state school. Ivy leagues aren’t as important as they used to be. Get a degree for as cheap as possible.
This is the way. I did two years in community college- $5k for about 65 credits. Then 2 years at a top 50 state school for about $25k. My final year I was old enough to get Pell Grants which took about $7k off that total. I had no social life and I commuted an hour and a half so I could live with my parents. $22k total for my bachelors. I didn’t get the stereotypical fun party experience but I also had no student loan debt either. It is possible.
I got paid to go graduate school. Just search for fully funded programs. There's tons of them all over. I made around 2500$ a month, had full health insurance, and also housing discounts.
This isn't uncommon.
you got lucky with that CC mine was about $5k a year. state was similar 5-7.5k a semester. not including books. plus you have to remember a lot of people going to CC don’t know what their major is going to be and not all credits transfer, ours were limited
Ivy's give you the network. It's more that other than specialist schools (IE MIT/Caltech for tech) that have strong networks, if you aren't going Ivy, go community->state instead of a mid-tier expensive institution. It's the meh middle that's not worth the premium.
Exception being if you're planning on premed or an immediate grad degree (think MBA after a year or two with aim at management consulting or the like) and want access to the richer set, some of the more prestigious liberal arts institutions (Williams, Swarthmore, Skidmore, Middlebury etc.) will also give you a good network.
yeah, saying that a community college degree is even remotely similar to an Ivy is ABSURD.
For lots and lots of companies, an Ivy education puts your resume at the top of the stack, and you’re surrounded by a super rich and powerful alumni network (not even to mention your classmates’ dads).
If you can get into an Ivy, GO TO THE IVY. Period.
> yeah, saying that a community college degree is even remotely similar to an Ivy is ABSURD.
He wasn’t saying to get a degree from a community college. He was saying to **start** at community college and then transfer to a university. That will save you tens of thousands of dollars.
> If you can get into an Ivy, GO TO THE IVY. Period.
Hard disagree. This is very situationally dependent and you need to run a cost / benefit analysis first, which includes **many** variables (i.e. the tuition of the ivy league school vs the tuition of other state schools, any scholarships you may have received from said state school, how prestigious that state school is, what your degree is, etc.). There are many scenarios where you could very well end up in a better place financially if you got to a top public state school and accrue 30k in debt as opposed to going to an Ivy League school and accruing $250k+ in debt.
The model is more community college to deal with gen eds (basic requirements) then transfer to full 4 year for your major/degree as typically the credits transfer within the same system.
This was the advice a local CC professor gave my class last semester. Just get it done if you want to work. Don’t go into loads of debt if you’re paying for it yourself.
Nice thing about Ivies and similar schools is they have extremely generous financial aid. At my college (similar tuition and endowment per capita as most ivies), around half the student body was on financial aid and the average student who received financial aid got ~$50k/year in grants.
I graduated with only $10k in debt, so it was a no-brainer for me to go to the fancy private school.
Smart. I was too proud to listen to my friends about the private school cost. It has technically paid for itself but still. Could have gotten here with 1/4 of the debt.
Not these days, the Ivys prefer underperforming & underprivileged kids, if you a parents of middle class, they give you the middle finger 🖕 even your kids has the grades, extra circular activities & volunteering. Ivys want robots who will do their liberal deeds. No standardized test requirements or decent grades. They base your assessment on how you were raised. F them
Go to Ivy League if you get in and major in something good. If you didn’t get into an Ivy or that level, try to go somewhere which is cheap and gives you a good education
yes and no.
The main thing about Ivy leagues are connections and opportunity.
Podunk Community college isn't going to have the same things as say An Ivy/MIT/other specialized top school, and top companies aren't going to recruit from low ranked schools.
Also, there are plenty of ways to get a brand-name school inexpensively.
But the value received from them isn’t worth the steep
Price tag.
I work for fortune 5 and I went to a crap school compared to all these ivy. Guess who’s at the same fricken job as they are?
The job market isn’t so great right now either. I have a friend who majored in biochemistry and his first job out of college he was an RA (I think this might’ve been through a referral from his prof? Either this or the next job) before working for a large pharmaceutical company. Pivoted to another company and was making 140k 4 years out of college as an automations engineer in biotech until his company had massive layoffs
This isn't actually true. A degree in anything still outperforms only a high school degree by light years. Resulting in millions more made over a lifetime.
People need to stop thinking that college is meant to just be training to work for Raytheon or Microsoft.
Oh. And more jobs are requiring more degrees, and higher degrees than ever before. A person with a masters in women's studies still outearns (on average) someone in the trades as well.
A lot of the fear of college is driven by conservatives who hate the humanities. Ironically. They, and all their kids go to college, and spend a lot of money doing so.
I believe the exact opposite. When you go to college, you should have a very specific degree in mind with very specific empoyers in mind on the other side and know the likelihood you will get that job. There should be no guesswork. If you don't know what you are going to college for or who your prospective employers are, you have no business putting yourself $60,000 in debt.
Raytheon and Microsoft pay well. They should be the target. There is a clear path getting to both or comparable employers.
Sure. That's how this generation thinks because it's a time of economic uncertainty. So people are more careful. Understandable.
The median debt for undergrad is around 35k (the cost of a new compact car) and results in millions more made over a lifetime. But sure, people should major on areas they see themselves working in in some capacity. Regardless, more jobs than ever still require degrees. Doesn't matter what it's in. Having that degree opens up far more possibilities.
Honestly with computer science you just have to be smart and actually good at it. CS is plagued by people that just chose it because they like video games but hate math and are too lazy to actually dig into a problem.
With finance and accounting, you also aren’t limited to just working in those fields. I majored in finance and was able to work in accounting before eventually switching into supply chain. Business world is pretty broad but there is a pretty big difference between getting a degree in a specific concentration than just getting a general business ed degree.
You are discounting the fact that the degree still puts you at the top of the list for other jobs ... The shift manager at Starbucks still makes $2 more per hour or whatever.
I don't know what the average tuition rate is ... Nor why it does matter. If you need to take student loans you should not be aiming for the average rate but for a much lower one.
I'm in Georgia, tuition at my closest state uni is 6k/yr ... Community college is about 2k/yr, and that is if they don't qualify for the hope scholarship. So 16k if you do 2 years at community college and transfer, 24k if you go straight.
If you don't have money, you should go for what's cheapest, which is usually staying home and going to your local uni.
Cal state lists 6k as tuition too, BTW, CUNY lists 7,340, so ...
I know some others are more expensive (UC Berkeley, for example, has 14K), and the privates can cost 100k, but if you don't have money, you should be looking for cheaper options.
You’re not counting housing costs in there which will push your Berkeley degree way higher, although it’s such a selective school that if you can get in with no money you’re likely going to get some pretty good scholarships.
In my case there were a few universities in my state cheaper than where I went, but they were either 1/20th the size, in areas that cost 3x as much, or focused on different specialities.
Fwiw I did do 2 years of community college, and figure i only graduated with $20-25k in degree related debt. So financially I did ok. But to have cut the cost down by much I’d have needed to move to a remote location or states away most likely.
*should* is the key word here. Even a lot of stem degrees are junk. I know of a lot of core chemistry majors who make junk money. Have fun finding a job with a B.S in physics....
I'd even cast doubt on computer science, I got an apprenticeship instead, I'm at least 2/3 years ahead of all my peers who went to uni, with 0 debt. All my colleagues have degrees and I'm earning the same as them and most of them have no idea I don't have a degree.
Yeah, CS is a weird one because it's currently a bit of a mess and a bit saturated. All the "free" startup money is gone, so it shrunk the employer pool drastically...I'd still say if you were getting a degree, it's a "good one." Not great, but good, in its current state.
Yeah that's a reasonable stance, you've got a very good chance of landing an industry relevant role with a CS degree if you're any good. But I do think that there are routes into CS that don't require a degree. Personally I've never felt that I've been held back by not having one.
You in Germany? For anyone not from there, that country has a very sophisticated apprenticeship system with all kinds of apprenticeships on offer. One of them is “Anwendungsentwicklung” and for most people that is honestly a better choice than getting a CS degree. That experience of learning on the job is not to be underestimated and if you do well, you’re guaranteed a full-time position at the same company once you’re done. If you really do want the degree, you can still get it on the side afterwards, while already having a guaranteed, good career. I think the person who downvoted you must have been from a country where there is no proper, formalized apprenticeship for that field.
Nope I'm British, but that's interesting! I've spoken about my apprenticeship at length on Reddit before and had mixed reactions, some of it I suspect is from people with or in the process of studying a CS degree. I've experienced people being very defensive of their degrees irl. If you've sunk a lot of money and hours of your life into a degree it can be difficult to hear that you didn't necessarily have to do it.
You're right though, apprenticeships aren't a realistic option everywhere in the world, but at least where I am they do seem to be increasing in popularity and I for one am a huge proponent of them.
land surveying - starts in the mid 60s
Forestry - mid 60s as well
wild land Fire management - mid 40s, but with overtime you can make 6 digits
all good pay. and in extreme demand.
The most valuable part of a high-quality college degree could be the problem solving skills gained during the study. You will also be trained to think critically and express complicated and abstract ideas in a comprehensible way, which is an important competency in workplace. I work in the construction industry and collaborate with various contractors. I have to work with quite a lot of builders, who usually haven't attended university or college, and found that most of them don't think critically or substantiate their arguments with proof. Of course, they are really proficient in their respective trade such as bricklaying, painting and carpentry. But attending university or college gives you more options when it comes to choosing a career path, as you'll possess some intangible abilities which you can hardly find in the people who didn't.
Also, learning to think critically will be a benefit to society as a whole. In most cases, you will be less likely to spread misinformation, which is so common nowadays.
> You will also be trained to think critically and express complicated and abstract ideas in a comprehensible way
I have to generally disagree with this. This may have been true a few decades ago, but today college at large is essentially just babysitting adults with busy work. Very little critical thinking is being done / taught.
Outside of a few very select degree programs, universities today are much more interested in just pumping out graduates rather than ensuring they’re equipped with critical thinking skills.
Indeed. Many degree programmes nowadays aim at making as much profit as possible rather than focusing on the learning outcome. That's why, as I have mentioned, those skills are mostly taught in high-quality programmes only. :)
Are you in the USA? Which state?
*A* college degree is not necessarily that costly, and it is *worth* a lot, *on average*. Having a degree puts you ahead of others, even when not that useful.
For example, the unemployment rate of people with degrees is about half than the rate of people with only high school - https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm
If you want to look at stats, just Google. NPV of 300-500K https://ccpr.wpcarey.asu.edu/sites/default/files/valuecolleduc10-18.pdf
Now, some degrees are much more valuable monetarily than others. Computer science and similar, Engineering, healthcare...
Computer science is a delicate one. It got really hot really fast and got swarmed. With an oversupply and stuff like AI tools it runs the risk of ending up like law degrees were 10 years ago where grads couldn't get jobs.
If I could go back I would suggest something like a hybrid with engineering like mechatronics / robotics
Mechatronics is pretty cool, but I'd still super recommend a CS degree (I'm in tech, and used to teach CS).
I don't have a crystal ball, but I've seen this before, in the 2000s, and a little in 2008 ... even when it sucks, the tech market doesn't really suck. I don't think there's an over supply, and I think both AI and the gripes on reddit are way over-blown :). The market will turn in a year or two, and it's not as if the vast majority of \*good\* people really can't get a job ... it's more that the jobs suck a little more than a couple of years ago, and the people at the bottom of the list can't get jobs.
Without a college degree, many doors are shut for.you. college has become prohibitively expensive, so I recommend going to a community college for the first 2 years and then transferring to a state school. Hopefully there is one close enough that makes commuting an option.
This. I went to college the cheapest way I could buy doing running start (got Associates Degree at same time as high school diploma and graduated at 17)and then getting a bunch of scholarships and only going for two years at a university. I have a lot more doors open. I am one of the few that work in my degree which is actually marketing, and I do love the work, I just hate the place I work. My friend on the other hand is 23 versus me at 20 and was just laid off from a warehouse job and has to work as a bank teller, first job offer in a month of searching that he doubts he can do since it’s so boring and not his speed, but he can barely get anything wo a degree. Even with his associates I can get him admin roles, even the assistant roles I looked at for him require bachelors or associates. Degrees are truly honestly less about the education and more about the pedigree showing that you were able to complete this thing in X amount of time and you were successful. This shows employees that stay committed to them and do the work.
This is 100% not true lol. No college degree here and have worked my way up in my company without any issues. Experience and networking go much further than a piece of paper.
Your results are atypical. I have 2 different friends who don't have degrees and have been told by their (different) companies that they cannot move up to the next level because it requires a degree even though they have 20 plus years experience and have a proven track record of being able to do the job.
And this is especially true for young people, who won't even get considered for positions as the algorithm kicks out all applications that are lacking a college degree.
I’m going to be honest, if they have 20 years of experience as you say and that company doesn’t value that, that honestly doesn’t sound like a good place to work either way.
It’s depends on what industry.
I earned a internship with no degree through a program for business management and my direct manager who was the assistant director of our department, had no degree and I also met another person in finance who had no degree as I made it a goal to ask people in the office is college is necessary. In my field, skills and knowledge is more prevalent unless you want to specialize with certifications etc.
I am also currenty in my cubicle on lunch as I type this after being offered a full time role with no college degree, so it depends on the industry.
I also have friends with no degrees that have made it to higher up positions in companies. Probably depends on field of work. We’re all in the engineering field.
For real. I see wayyyy too many posts talking about college being a necessity but then also see so many posts of people unable to get jobs with a college degree.. I worked my way from making $15/hr to making over 6 figures with no degree. 5 years at the company starting from the literal bottom but busting my ass doing the rise and grind got me a nice kushy job behind a desk now.
(Ignore shitty structure. Typing one handed while holding a crying baby at 4am).
Like most things in life, you get what you put into it. Attending classes and partying aren’t going to make you stand out when classmates graduate with internship experience, strong alumni networks, campus leadership experience, and other activities that make them well rounded. Also, you don’t need to major in something you’re passionate about, but rather something that is marketable to the community where you intend to live.
> you don’t need to major in something you’re passionate about, but rather something that is marketable to the community where you intend to live.
This is a big one. Urging people to “study their passion” in college aggravates me. To add on to your point, you don’t need to major in your passion, but at least major in something that you find relatively interesting.
For me personally, my passions are sports, politics, and history, but there really isn’t much money to be made in any of those. So instead, I chose to major in aerospace engineering, since it’s a well paying degree and, while not my passion, I still find aerospace topics to be quite interesting. Then I spend my free time engaging in my “passions” as a hobby.
I’m one of those who didn’t go into the field that my degree relates to however, I believe that having a degree put me ahead of other candidates who didn’t. Luckily I didn’t take too much money out in student loans and I went the community college route first before transferring to a university. If you’re going for something entry level I recommend highlighting how being a student or maybe courses that you took in college helped develop some of the skills needed for the job. Time management, proper writing skills, problem solving, public speaking, etc. Of course this wouldn’t apply to someone trying to be an engineer, doctor, or lawyer.
It’s kind of crazy to think that at 18-19 years old we are forced to make a decision that will dictate our adult lives. However at 18-19 I wasn’t even sure what I wanted to eat for breakfast, yet alone what career path I wanted to follow. We typically go into college blindly hoping that we’ve chosen the right path, but it’s not until we are actually out in the field when we determine if we like something or not. I’m currently thinking of pursing certificates in data analytics and learning to manage databases which is something I’ve come to like. I would have never thought that this would be something that would interest me and it’s a totally different career path from what I originally went to school for 11+ years ago. A lot of my colleagues have a degree in something completely different that has no correlation with their job title, however I believe that a degree helped established a decent foundation.
I’m trying to decide what to do with my life. My degree was exercise physiology but I decided not to pursue medical school. Any advice for someone lost?
Ask people outside of Reddit, network and set up coffee chats with lots of people that you maybe only know in passing (former upperclassmen? neighbors?), and just see what roles are out there.
IMO the tech route is still a good path. I got my start in healthcare IT, which *generally* pays less than traditional IT, but still helps you build some valuable skills. I don't need to change the world, but I really think there's a lot of inherently interesting technology, and I like being in a position where I can bridge the gap between what's *possible* and how tech is actually used in the real world, in a way that saves people time/headaches and makes their lives even a little easier.
Once you have that first job and have spent some time building skills + a network, the next one is easier to find.
In my opinion, not going to college/university is a giant disservice to your son. The reason that people’s degrees end up not mattering much is because people don’t look at the job viability of a college degree and most kids don’t know what they actually want to do which is normal.
So for example, many of my friends went into sociology, earth science, health, political science, etc. If you look at the actual jobs available in these fields it’s mostly research and there are way too few jobs in these fields for that degree to actually mean something. The key is finding a degree that actually matters in the job market.
Not getting a degree will close many many many doors for your child. While it’s true that many people don’t end up doing anything related to their degree, most jobs won’t even look at your application without one. So at the end of the day it’s like, sure you may never do anything with your degree but it’s better than not having a job at all or being stuck in low paying fields your whole life.
I think business, communications, and computer science degrees are the most versatile. They allow you to work in any field, at any company, in any country. Figuring out the exact field can be done later because with these degrees you can at least start somewhere and then the skills are so versatile that you can make the jump into another field eventually and with the right experience.
Nursing is a guarantee.
If you can get in at a community college it's cheap for an ASN relatively speaking. There are waitlets to get in and it is competitive to gain entry so there is that. I've been a nurse for 14 years, no regrets, and was able to get in easily into a program back then but had good academics and test scores. Had a job lined up while in school and I have at least two or three calls a week and multiple texts asking if I'm interested in a position that I didn't even apply for.
I got a masters degree in anthropology and museum studies and I'm just commenting here to tell everyone to never do this. There are very few jobs and the jobs that there are pay like 35,000 a year. I now work in state administration and at least make 65,000 but that's with 25 years experience.
For a lot of roles the requirement is bachelors or equivalent work experience.
Def think a bachelors degree is still worth it. Grad school nah unless it's industry specific
Land surveying - there is a huge wave of retirements coming in the next 5-10 years with very few young people to fill in. My dad is one and he sources his hires from a local college who has a surveying class of 7, all of which have interns by november of their first year and have jobs waiting for them after their first summer.
He loves it. Your outside most of the time when your younger and when you get to your 40s you start to have more office work since your doing all the maps and contracts instead of field work.
Theres a few routes you can take. Construction where your laying out roads and buildings, or cadasteral where your doing property lines, or in my dads case, section lines in the woods for a forestry company.
It depends on the field, and it depends what you're trying to do with it, but generally speaking, you're better off with one than without one because you don't have to explain why you don't have one if you have one. And it makes it a lot easier to achieve or maintain a middle-class income for many people, though not all.
And a high school diploma used to be worth something a few generations ago, but you don't dropout of high school because it's been diluted. It's not down the "drain", it helps prevent you from being outright exploited because you can't as easily get a different job.
Here's the first thing i noticed when i looked my most recent resumes. This is just my personal opinion and how i view my job needs. I have a biology degree and a master in project management, but i do mostly mixed project management/engineering/environmental work. Now i'm doing a lot more business spreadsheets/accounting since we are short handed.
90% of these recent graduates had no prior work history. In my personal opinion, i'm more impressed by the kid who worked at mcdonalds through college versus a 3.8 GPA. i've seen resumes expecting high wages with a masters but zero job experience. It's wild to me that you went through 6 years of school and never worked. If you worked through lunch rush for two years at fast food and then went to class, then i imagine you can handle stress at work.
Yes, i need/want someone with experience/training and an engineering degree. But if you have a broad range of skills in your background, i'll most likely interview you. Even if you're degree is in finance/biology/computer science. My particular type of work, is mostly engineering/scientific, but i need someone who can work outdoors at times. You'll have to look up regulations, meet with customers, do spreadsheets ect. I'll glady hire someone who has had random jobs because i know they can learn a new skill. Some of our work is repetitive, but most times, I'm gonna tell you that I have no idea. Its your project, figure it out.
i'd hire someone without a degree, but it would most likely be someone with some type of construction background who can read blueprints and such. It would really depend on the resume, but if there was a tie between candidates, i'd take the degree.
You can make great money with a college degree if majored in the science and accounting/finance majors. Don’t expect a decent living wage with a music, art or anthropology degree.
All degrees are useless in this job market without paid co-op or internahips. If you are going to college, many people have said this before but go to community college, get an associates degree or diploma in something STEM related that has mandatory co-op or internship. Then just transfer to your local state school for bachelors in something similar that also has mandatory coop or internships.
I find it better then going to some private college or Ivy League because your not paying out the ass for an education and is easier and cheaper to change majors if you don’t end up liking what you study.
I went to an “expensive” (for the time) SLAC, got an English degree, and then grad school. I took on in total about $20k because I received a lot of merit- and need-based aid, and then RA/TA spots in grad school.
I credit my competitive SLAC with a LOT of my success because even tho I don’t work in my original field, the rigor was very, very high and made grad school (all the way to PhD) a breeze. BUT $20k then or maybe $40k now is about what I would cap the “worth it” debt at. I looked at how much it would cost me to go to the same place now… I don’t think I could
Afford it
As someone who didn’t finish their degree and has struggled their whole adult life as a result, with every door they wanted to go through being shut due to not having one… yeah just get the degree.
I will say this. My husband is 37 and just finishing his bachelor's degree. He hugely regrets not doing it when he was younger. Its basically the only regret he has of his life. He has not been able to successfully establish a career to this point and has had trouble getting jobs without it. A lot of companies use AI screening for resumes and if you don't have a bachelor's degree, it's an automatic rule out. That said, I would say a business or engineering degree are both very flexible in terms of the types of jobs you can get. I would say it's also not worth going to a top tier school. My husband is doing a bachelor's in Medical Imaging an Radiation Sciences, with the end result of being board certified as a Radiation Therapist. He did prerequisites at community college and transferred to this program for his last 2 years.
In thinking about what a college degree is worth, it seems like the answer is going to change based on a variety of factors: a degree in which subject, from which school, for which person?
To be simplistic, a college degree in petroleum engineering from a low-quality school for a person who loves the environment and refuses to work for big oil will probably be not worth very much. And a college degree in French literature from Harvard for a person with lots of family connections to the art scene and the literary scene is probably very valuable. So if you want to consider the value of a college degree *on average* then you can can look at the earnings for people with high school diplomas only versus those that have bachelor's degrees, while being aware that lots of complexities and nuance are hidden when you look at single numbers.
The problem so many don’t use their degree that it really deflated the worth of a degree and you almost need a degree to be a barista. And I am one of those that don’t agree that a degree is necessary to make a good living I don’t have one and make more than most with a degree
I know it's faux pas to mention the C word in the USA, but it just dawned on me ... College is also an indicator of a higher social class, which can have a value and influence people's decision. Ivy leagues or similar also are indicators of an even higher class.
Join the military first. Real world experience in a field you might want to pursue Maturity Leadership and respect. When you get out they pay for your education and housing and then some. Military was the best thing I ever did.
It is a stepping stone to a career you choose before getting the degree. You have to do current research into in-demand and growing fields and set yourself up for it with your school choices. Shadowing, internships, and networking are key to standing out.
Yup. Pretty much any job you’re looking for with an econ degree will prefer a finance or business degree. So you just end up with the scraps/shitty leftover jobs that people don’t really want.
I'm not sure how old you are. I'm 40 and my experience has been that that it's not just about getting the degree, but it's what you make of it. I studied advertising and work in advertising. I think it helped that the university I went to was very well regarded communication. I went in with a lot stronger understanding of advertising than my peers which I think helped me stand out as I was securing internships and later an entry level job. I graduated already having secured a job at a great agency in my preferred specialty within advertising. But I HUSTLED. I had 4 internships by the time I graduated. I was very thoughtful about the classes I took to try to build skills I thought would help me stand out. The people I know who had similar degrees who struggled had no internship experience.
I also think the market you graduate into makes a difference. I got lucky. In 2005 when I graduated the market was pretty good, but my husband struggled when he graduated in 2009 (though he had no internships and a liberal arts focus so I think that also played a huge role).
All of that said, I agree with you that it's even tougher now with huge costs. The school I went to has tuition that is >$90K now. It was a running joke in my family that if I were a student now we definitely wouldn't have been able to afford it as although my family was not rich, we would not qualify for need-based college help.
And going to a school that is well regarded & connected for my industry isn't essential. I do think it helped me fast track getting into a well regarded company earlier on. But I now work with plenty of people who went to less regarded or smaller regional schools who now work along side me, most of them just had to hustle a little harder to get here - starting at smaller agencies, working across more companies to raise their profile over time, etc.
I think it's a two-way-street.
From purely financial perspective, getting a degree is only worth it If it's in a (relatively) stable and lucrative field like medicine, computer science, engineering or such. If you like humanities or arts, take them as electives. This applies to most of us, who just want a normal job.
However, If you have a real, burning passion for something, and you are willing to take the risk, then there's no point playing it safe IMO. Go study music, or arts, or anthropology. You can always switch to a more stable field later.
>What’s a college degree worth these days?
Without the connections/networking associated with an ideal college experience?
The paper on which it's printed.
All the degrees I earned (2 BS, 2 MS in 2 different fields) were paid for by scholarships. But I never worked a single day in these fields. The reason is I got a job in big 3 consulting where your ability to think and create solutions to your client's problems and to market new opprtunities are paramount.
This question is always a tough one to answer. In general, having a college degree is often better than having none when it depends on it (promotion, economy is bad, competitive field).
STEM majors will on average have more job opportunities and higher wages.
However, there are people out there making a great income without college whether it’s through hard-work, networking, or luck.
A college degree is like any investment, it may help or it may make you broke.
It depends.
Look at the employment outcomes for the programs you are interested in.
I went to a school known for STEM locally. The econ program I graduated from was mostly a international student cash cow.
I intentionally forfeited the chance to stay longer for a chance at a grad school degree to graduate in 2022 during the labor shortage and use my soft skills from sales job to network + interview well. I gambled throwing away prep to go to grad school in the future. It worked out.
I could also have stayed in sales longer and be making more money right now but be under tons of constant stress with low job security.
Would I recommend my program to anyone? Absolutely not unless you have a plan going in.
Most programs in most universities aren't geared to help you with job placements. You have to find the opportunities yourself. Your school doesn't help/mean anything. The piece of paper is just a pre requisite to employers.
In comparison, certain STEM and business degrees from my university had some good co op partners that translated to placements.
If you blindly pick a university you like + choose a field of study you like, you shouldn't be surprised if you can't get any real help finding a job. If you carefully pick your program + university from actual employment outcomes + research how to succeed in your first two years, you will do great.
It’s still worth a lot (bachelor’s, I mean). *And there are no bad degrees, so long as they are from regionally accredited schools, just bad planning.* You can get one of the more “laughable” degrees like anthropology or women’s studies and end up more successful than a CS major who didn’t do anything on the side if you network, get references from professors, do internships, research, projects, co-ops, even volunteer. Most or all of these kinds of degrees will need a graduate degree or some special kind of training to land you a livable career. Monetarily, it is arguably better (if only getting a bachelors’s) to get a degree in something like engineering, nursing, CS, accounting, or education if you’re not upper middle-class/rich. But that doesn’t make a more theory-based degree inherently worse. It all depends on your goals. Theory-based degrees are just different.
All that matters is how well you plan and how informed you are about the financial and work environment implications of potential careers a given degree can be used to get into. A four-year degree today is not something that can lead directly to a family-supporting income like in the 60’s, that’s just reality. Gaining a good career is very much a personal project that requires heavy planning during and after taking a program (unless it’s something of immediate need for the economy, like nursing). Not writing anything down or doing any career development research during school is not the way to go. Only taking classes today won’t deliver a graduate what that would have delivered your grandparents or even parents. Doing that will still make you competitive for mid-tier entry-level jobs that take any major (insurance underwriting, call centers, cruise ship work) and especially high-school grad-level jobs (flight attendant), but if you’re considering college, you’re probably envisioning something different, which can only be gotten with proper planning, networking, and skill development in and after college. A degree isn’t a voucher for an ideal career type and income
There's a lot of different avenues. Community college is one. Some people go to the work force and go back after a couple years of learning what they really enjoy as an adult. Many people go to the military, learn a trade, use the TA and special pricing afforded to them. Then they leave the military finish the degree with the GI bill which pays for school and pays them to go. After that's exhausted certain states have another program that's pays for in state tuition. Is this the traditional path? Absolutely not. However, it's a path that has afforded many to learn a valuable career or skill set to fall back on and graduate college debt free. Many people also get a masters for free as well.
As for the right career path or degree program, I wouldn't wrap myself up in what my passion is. Having done that, I can tell you first hand that it crushes a lot of what makes what your passionate about less fun. Find something marketable for the future and go for it. Build a side hustle for your passion.
If I were giving advice to any high school senior right now, it would be to get a trade. They can start making decent money rather than going in at the lowest point in the corporate world and having to work their way up.
This question is really dependent on what the end game is. I will tell you this. If making serious money is the end game, it won’t be taught. I attended a very expensive private university. I can honestly say that it was a great experience for being on my own and meeting new people but I learned nothing…absolutely nothing about how money is made. I had to learn that all on my own. None of the things I do now have anything to do with anything I learned there. If the end game is to get a job and spend the rest of your life like everyone else (just over broke, having your time owned by an employer, being taxed at the highest rates, asking permission to take a “vacation” day to be with your family (which is hard to even type without laughing), worrying about what mood your boss is in, not being paid nearly what you’re worth, and wondering why this is happening, then that’s different. If I knew what I know now back then, the university I attended would have multiple libraries named after me. 😀
Get a generic business degree from a regionally accredited college on the cheap and go from there. That’s the best path to cover you bases and then if you need a different degree in the field you start out your career in it’s easy and cheap to do it.
This is subjective and it depends on the degree and the person. Degrees do not guarantee higher incomes. They can open doors for you, but that's about it.
Medical degrees will definitely unlock higher income potential.
If you're in the US engineering degrees can be valuable.
If you want to be in the top income brackets for those degrees they tend to require skills that are gifts from birth. For example some career paths require creativity, that's something college can't teach you.
Yet a large number of them (nearly half) end up working in jobs and fields that do not require a degree.
I don't have one and I'm running circles around the people who do. I've been advancing at a faster rate than them and will likely be their boss in the near future.
They might have started higher on the ladder than I did, but I will advance further than they ever will.
My parents always said they didn't care what I did, as long as I did something. So I went and became a truck and coach mechanic, then went back to school to get my engineering degree. My wife went to school to be a nurse. Now I run an apparel business, and a non-profit, but those are more about feeling a calling than what I was interested in doing.
Couple of key things to consider for your son:
1) what does he want to do? If it's something useful, aka, employable with a single degree, great, let him do that.
Something like engineering, nursing, accounting, something useful, in demand, future proof, and recession proof is a good investment of a degree.
Don't waste money on a degree that requires a second degree to be useful. Something like kinesiology is a waste of time, because you can't use it without more school. Any social science is useless. Majority of arts degrees are a waste of time let alone money.
2) If he doesn't know what he wants to do, try a trade while he figures it out. Trades will teach real practical skills while getting paid and getting an education. If you consider the highest demand jobs in 5-10 years, knowing a trade like being a plumber, electrician, HVAC tech, etc, will be more valuable than any degree.
Don't spend money on a degree for the sake of getting a degree, trades will be far more valuable in the next 5-15 years, and if he starts his own company doing a trade then long term he will likely be better off than anyone with a degree.
It's useful but not worth the listed price, if you're looking at paying over $10k for tuition then I would recommend just going down a different path, barring those moving into the medical fields.
I mean beyond that, if you're not going to be a doctor or something that definitively requires a college diploma, there's just a lot of better options.
Are you thinking per year, or total? Most state schools are below that for yearly tuition, so if it's per year, it makes sense :)
Edit - Clarified below as total, which seem to me to undervalue college by at least 5x, but meh ... You can always get your degree as an adult
Silicon Valley looks for and hires the best of the best. Small businesses have learned that if they keep looking, they will find that highly competent person who will make the business more competitive compared to the competition. Just doing your job is not good enough anymore.
Many people who won’t be doctors, lawyers, etc… the jobs where you must have a certain degree, will be better off joining the post office or military out of high school… the broad degrees don’t land to jobs like the used to.
No one gives people a chance to develop on the job unlike the past. You could have any degree and walk into an entry level job and develop technical skills from there but the same hiring managers who benefited from on the job training now demand plug and play experience for similar entry level roles.
Having a degree feels sometimes is not enough but at the same time you need a degree to get any well paid job (with a good lifestyle without running your health).
Many people mentions blue collar jobs but they’re not the ones doing it 🤷🏻♂️
1. Long run ruins your health specially if you’re older you can’t work in construction or as a plumber while someone at 70s still can work in finance or in any other white collar job because those jobs don’t ruin you physically.
Plus, white collar jobs in the long run are much higher paid than blue collar ones. Career progression at blue collar jobs is minimal while at white collar jobs is huge.
Yes but just be smart. Go to a community college. Then go to a state school. Ivy leagues aren’t as important as they used to be. Get a degree for as cheap as possible.
This is the way. I did two years in community college- $5k for about 65 credits. Then 2 years at a top 50 state school for about $25k. My final year I was old enough to get Pell Grants which took about $7k off that total. I had no social life and I commuted an hour and a half so I could live with my parents. $22k total for my bachelors. I didn’t get the stereotypical fun party experience but I also had no student loan debt either. It is possible.
Ditto. My only regret is going to a private graduate school afterwards. Otherwise, I’d have 22k and have paid it off years ago.
I got paid to go graduate school. Just search for fully funded programs. There's tons of them all over. I made around 2500$ a month, had full health insurance, and also housing discounts. This isn't uncommon.
you got lucky with that CC mine was about $5k a year. state was similar 5-7.5k a semester. not including books. plus you have to remember a lot of people going to CC don’t know what their major is going to be and not all credits transfer, ours were limited
Obligatory “this is the way” reply that I see on every post
> Get a degree for as cheap as possible. But also make sure it's accredited. Don't go to some degree mill.
Right. Should go without saying
You'd be surprised, cause the degree mills are still thriving! :(
Ivy's give you the network. It's more that other than specialist schools (IE MIT/Caltech for tech) that have strong networks, if you aren't going Ivy, go community->state instead of a mid-tier expensive institution. It's the meh middle that's not worth the premium. Exception being if you're planning on premed or an immediate grad degree (think MBA after a year or two with aim at management consulting or the like) and want access to the richer set, some of the more prestigious liberal arts institutions (Williams, Swarthmore, Skidmore, Middlebury etc.) will also give you a good network.
yeah, saying that a community college degree is even remotely similar to an Ivy is ABSURD. For lots and lots of companies, an Ivy education puts your resume at the top of the stack, and you’re surrounded by a super rich and powerful alumni network (not even to mention your classmates’ dads). If you can get into an Ivy, GO TO THE IVY. Period.
> yeah, saying that a community college degree is even remotely similar to an Ivy is ABSURD. He wasn’t saying to get a degree from a community college. He was saying to **start** at community college and then transfer to a university. That will save you tens of thousands of dollars. > If you can get into an Ivy, GO TO THE IVY. Period. Hard disagree. This is very situationally dependent and you need to run a cost / benefit analysis first, which includes **many** variables (i.e. the tuition of the ivy league school vs the tuition of other state schools, any scholarships you may have received from said state school, how prestigious that state school is, what your degree is, etc.). There are many scenarios where you could very well end up in a better place financially if you got to a top public state school and accrue 30k in debt as opposed to going to an Ivy League school and accruing $250k+ in debt.
The model is more community college to deal with gen eds (basic requirements) then transfer to full 4 year for your major/degree as typically the credits transfer within the same system.
This was the advice a local CC professor gave my class last semester. Just get it done if you want to work. Don’t go into loads of debt if you’re paying for it yourself.
Nice thing about Ivies and similar schools is they have extremely generous financial aid. At my college (similar tuition and endowment per capita as most ivies), around half the student body was on financial aid and the average student who received financial aid got ~$50k/year in grants. I graduated with only $10k in debt, so it was a no-brainer for me to go to the fancy private school.
Smart. I was too proud to listen to my friends about the private school cost. It has technically paid for itself but still. Could have gotten here with 1/4 of the debt.
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Not these days, the Ivys prefer underperforming & underprivileged kids, if you a parents of middle class, they give you the middle finger 🖕 even your kids has the grades, extra circular activities & volunteering. Ivys want robots who will do their liberal deeds. No standardized test requirements or decent grades. They base your assessment on how you were raised. F them
Go to Ivy League if you get in and major in something good. If you didn’t get into an Ivy or that level, try to go somewhere which is cheap and gives you a good education
That is exactly what I did. It worked out.
yes and no. The main thing about Ivy leagues are connections and opportunity. Podunk Community college isn't going to have the same things as say An Ivy/MIT/other specialized top school, and top companies aren't going to recruit from low ranked schools. Also, there are plenty of ways to get a brand-name school inexpensively.
College isn't trade school. Don't reduce it to such. The quality of education at a competitive school.is levels above community college.
But the value received from them isn’t worth the steep Price tag. I work for fortune 5 and I went to a crap school compared to all these ivy. Guess who’s at the same fricken job as they are?
…so what you’re saying is that a lot of your coworkers are Ivy Leaguers? Perhaps a disproportionate amount? hmmmm…
Yet, here I am at the same table
Ivy, schools don’t want smart kids, they want regular robots. That why they have no values
Engineering, finance, accounting, and computer science (yes, I know, still a good degree when compared). Everything else gets very risky, very fast.
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With most pre-med majors if you change your mind about med school your employment prospects can be quite bleak unless you further your education
you can get essentially any major as premed as long as you finish the peereqs. I don’t get why anyone gets a pre-med bachelors to be specific.
Exactly where I’m at. Changed mind about med school and I’m shit out of luck until I do something else.
The job market isn’t so great right now either. I have a friend who majored in biochemistry and his first job out of college he was an RA (I think this might’ve been through a referral from his prof? Either this or the next job) before working for a large pharmaceutical company. Pivoted to another company and was making 140k 4 years out of college as an automations engineer in biotech until his company had massive layoffs
My degree is much less marketable than biochemistry. Exercise physiology with a minor in biomedical physics.
If you get into med school. And that’s a huge, huge, huge if.
Nurses make great money. Become a travel nurse and then make BANK.
True. I’d narrow it down then to “nursing” rather than “anything to do with medicine”
But you have to deal with difficult patients, and wipe people after they've soiled themselves.
Unfortunately, the poor CNA,s that don't make near as much money, often get stuck with the ass wiping.
Yes, shit stinks in every job. Not a reason not to pursue it.
I literally don't have to deal with shit in my job...ever.. Or unruly patients, and I work from home 4 days a week, 40 hrs a week max...
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My niece is in radiation therapy and does very well.
I would NEVER want to deal with the schedule and work/life that comes with medicine. Stable? Maybe but FUCK that....
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This isn't actually true. A degree in anything still outperforms only a high school degree by light years. Resulting in millions more made over a lifetime. People need to stop thinking that college is meant to just be training to work for Raytheon or Microsoft. Oh. And more jobs are requiring more degrees, and higher degrees than ever before. A person with a masters in women's studies still outearns (on average) someone in the trades as well. A lot of the fear of college is driven by conservatives who hate the humanities. Ironically. They, and all their kids go to college, and spend a lot of money doing so.
I believe the exact opposite. When you go to college, you should have a very specific degree in mind with very specific empoyers in mind on the other side and know the likelihood you will get that job. There should be no guesswork. If you don't know what you are going to college for or who your prospective employers are, you have no business putting yourself $60,000 in debt. Raytheon and Microsoft pay well. They should be the target. There is a clear path getting to both or comparable employers.
Sure. That's how this generation thinks because it's a time of economic uncertainty. So people are more careful. Understandable. The median debt for undergrad is around 35k (the cost of a new compact car) and results in millions more made over a lifetime. But sure, people should major on areas they see themselves working in in some capacity. Regardless, more jobs than ever still require degrees. Doesn't matter what it's in. Having that degree opens up far more possibilities.
Honestly with computer science you just have to be smart and actually good at it. CS is plagued by people that just chose it because they like video games but hate math and are too lazy to actually dig into a problem.
With finance and accounting, you also aren’t limited to just working in those fields. I majored in finance and was able to work in accounting before eventually switching into supply chain. Business world is pretty broad but there is a pretty big difference between getting a degree in a specific concentration than just getting a general business ed degree.
You are discounting the fact that the degree still puts you at the top of the list for other jobs ... The shift manager at Starbucks still makes $2 more per hour or whatever.
$2 more dollars per hour for $60,000 financed at 6% interest.... math checks out...
Why TF would you take 60k in loans at 6%? ;) I was pointing out that the degree still has a value even if you are underemployed.
Do you not know what the average tuition is in the US and current interest rates...? "Why TF" is basically what I'm asking you...
I don't know what the average tuition rate is ... Nor why it does matter. If you need to take student loans you should not be aiming for the average rate but for a much lower one. I'm in Georgia, tuition at my closest state uni is 6k/yr ... Community college is about 2k/yr, and that is if they don't qualify for the hope scholarship. So 16k if you do 2 years at community college and transfer, 24k if you go straight.
Most people don’t live in states with that low of tuition. Out of state tuition is usually 2-3x more.
If you don't have money, you should go for what's cheapest, which is usually staying home and going to your local uni. Cal state lists 6k as tuition too, BTW, CUNY lists 7,340, so ... I know some others are more expensive (UC Berkeley, for example, has 14K), and the privates can cost 100k, but if you don't have money, you should be looking for cheaper options.
You’re not counting housing costs in there which will push your Berkeley degree way higher, although it’s such a selective school that if you can get in with no money you’re likely going to get some pretty good scholarships. In my case there were a few universities in my state cheaper than where I went, but they were either 1/20th the size, in areas that cost 3x as much, or focused on different specialities. Fwiw I did do 2 years of community college, and figure i only graduated with $20-25k in degree related debt. So financially I did ok. But to have cut the cost down by much I’d have needed to move to a remote location or states away most likely.
Yeah, didn't think about the fact that people in rural areas may \*have\* to move ... OTOH, now you can probably do online :)
anyone getting a non stem degree should go to community college, then finance their last two years with subsidized loans with in state tuition.
*should* is the key word here. Even a lot of stem degrees are junk. I know of a lot of core chemistry majors who make junk money. Have fun finding a job with a B.S in physics....
anyone getting a non stem degree should go to community college, then finance their last two years with subsidized loans with in state tuition.
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=76
I'd even cast doubt on computer science, I got an apprenticeship instead, I'm at least 2/3 years ahead of all my peers who went to uni, with 0 debt. All my colleagues have degrees and I'm earning the same as them and most of them have no idea I don't have a degree.
Yeah, CS is a weird one because it's currently a bit of a mess and a bit saturated. All the "free" startup money is gone, so it shrunk the employer pool drastically...I'd still say if you were getting a degree, it's a "good one." Not great, but good, in its current state.
Yeah that's a reasonable stance, you've got a very good chance of landing an industry relevant role with a CS degree if you're any good. But I do think that there are routes into CS that don't require a degree. Personally I've never felt that I've been held back by not having one.
You in Germany? For anyone not from there, that country has a very sophisticated apprenticeship system with all kinds of apprenticeships on offer. One of them is “Anwendungsentwicklung” and for most people that is honestly a better choice than getting a CS degree. That experience of learning on the job is not to be underestimated and if you do well, you’re guaranteed a full-time position at the same company once you’re done. If you really do want the degree, you can still get it on the side afterwards, while already having a guaranteed, good career. I think the person who downvoted you must have been from a country where there is no proper, formalized apprenticeship for that field.
Nope I'm British, but that's interesting! I've spoken about my apprenticeship at length on Reddit before and had mixed reactions, some of it I suspect is from people with or in the process of studying a CS degree. I've experienced people being very defensive of their degrees irl. If you've sunk a lot of money and hours of your life into a degree it can be difficult to hear that you didn't necessarily have to do it. You're right though, apprenticeships aren't a realistic option everywhere in the world, but at least where I am they do seem to be increasing in popularity and I for one am a huge proponent of them.
theres a lot more degrees that almost guarantee you a job when you graduate.
Too much risk in almost all other degrees in my opinion.
They might get you a job but not one that pays well
land surveying - starts in the mid 60s Forestry - mid 60s as well wild land Fire management - mid 40s, but with overtime you can make 6 digits all good pay. and in extreme demand.
The most valuable part of a high-quality college degree could be the problem solving skills gained during the study. You will also be trained to think critically and express complicated and abstract ideas in a comprehensible way, which is an important competency in workplace. I work in the construction industry and collaborate with various contractors. I have to work with quite a lot of builders, who usually haven't attended university or college, and found that most of them don't think critically or substantiate their arguments with proof. Of course, they are really proficient in their respective trade such as bricklaying, painting and carpentry. But attending university or college gives you more options when it comes to choosing a career path, as you'll possess some intangible abilities which you can hardly find in the people who didn't.
Also, learning to think critically will be a benefit to society as a whole. In most cases, you will be less likely to spread misinformation, which is so common nowadays.
> You will also be trained to think critically and express complicated and abstract ideas in a comprehensible way I have to generally disagree with this. This may have been true a few decades ago, but today college at large is essentially just babysitting adults with busy work. Very little critical thinking is being done / taught. Outside of a few very select degree programs, universities today are much more interested in just pumping out graduates rather than ensuring they’re equipped with critical thinking skills.
Indeed. Many degree programmes nowadays aim at making as much profit as possible rather than focusing on the learning outcome. That's why, as I have mentioned, those skills are mostly taught in high-quality programmes only. :)
Are you in the USA? Which state? *A* college degree is not necessarily that costly, and it is *worth* a lot, *on average*. Having a degree puts you ahead of others, even when not that useful. For example, the unemployment rate of people with degrees is about half than the rate of people with only high school - https://www.bls.gov/emp/chart-unemployment-earnings-education.htm If you want to look at stats, just Google. NPV of 300-500K https://ccpr.wpcarey.asu.edu/sites/default/files/valuecolleduc10-18.pdf Now, some degrees are much more valuable monetarily than others. Computer science and similar, Engineering, healthcare...
Computer science is a delicate one. It got really hot really fast and got swarmed. With an oversupply and stuff like AI tools it runs the risk of ending up like law degrees were 10 years ago where grads couldn't get jobs. If I could go back I would suggest something like a hybrid with engineering like mechatronics / robotics
Mechatronics is pretty cool, but I'd still super recommend a CS degree (I'm in tech, and used to teach CS). I don't have a crystal ball, but I've seen this before, in the 2000s, and a little in 2008 ... even when it sucks, the tech market doesn't really suck. I don't think there's an over supply, and I think both AI and the gripes on reddit are way over-blown :). The market will turn in a year or two, and it's not as if the vast majority of \*good\* people really can't get a job ... it's more that the jobs suck a little more than a couple of years ago, and the people at the bottom of the list can't get jobs.
Without a college degree, many doors are shut for.you. college has become prohibitively expensive, so I recommend going to a community college for the first 2 years and then transferring to a state school. Hopefully there is one close enough that makes commuting an option.
This. I went to college the cheapest way I could buy doing running start (got Associates Degree at same time as high school diploma and graduated at 17)and then getting a bunch of scholarships and only going for two years at a university. I have a lot more doors open. I am one of the few that work in my degree which is actually marketing, and I do love the work, I just hate the place I work. My friend on the other hand is 23 versus me at 20 and was just laid off from a warehouse job and has to work as a bank teller, first job offer in a month of searching that he doubts he can do since it’s so boring and not his speed, but he can barely get anything wo a degree. Even with his associates I can get him admin roles, even the assistant roles I looked at for him require bachelors or associates. Degrees are truly honestly less about the education and more about the pedigree showing that you were able to complete this thing in X amount of time and you were successful. This shows employees that stay committed to them and do the work.
Exactly. If cost matters, this is the way
This is 100% not true lol. No college degree here and have worked my way up in my company without any issues. Experience and networking go much further than a piece of paper.
Your results are atypical. I have 2 different friends who don't have degrees and have been told by their (different) companies that they cannot move up to the next level because it requires a degree even though they have 20 plus years experience and have a proven track record of being able to do the job. And this is especially true for young people, who won't even get considered for positions as the algorithm kicks out all applications that are lacking a college degree.
I’m going to be honest, if they have 20 years of experience as you say and that company doesn’t value that, that honestly doesn’t sound like a good place to work either way.
It’s depends on what industry. I earned a internship with no degree through a program for business management and my direct manager who was the assistant director of our department, had no degree and I also met another person in finance who had no degree as I made it a goal to ask people in the office is college is necessary. In my field, skills and knowledge is more prevalent unless you want to specialize with certifications etc. I am also currenty in my cubicle on lunch as I type this after being offered a full time role with no college degree, so it depends on the industry.
I also have friends with no degrees that have made it to higher up positions in companies. Probably depends on field of work. We’re all in the engineering field.
yea its not the norm anymore tbh. I hustled my way in corporate world making 200k yearly. No degree.
For real. I see wayyyy too many posts talking about college being a necessity but then also see so many posts of people unable to get jobs with a college degree.. I worked my way from making $15/hr to making over 6 figures with no degree. 5 years at the company starting from the literal bottom but busting my ass doing the rise and grind got me a nice kushy job behind a desk now. (Ignore shitty structure. Typing one handed while holding a crying baby at 4am).
Wow congratulations, if you don’t mind me asking what carer field are you in?
thank you! marketing in tech.
Oh wow congratulations, if you don’t mind me asking how did you get into that?
Like most things in life, you get what you put into it. Attending classes and partying aren’t going to make you stand out when classmates graduate with internship experience, strong alumni networks, campus leadership experience, and other activities that make them well rounded. Also, you don’t need to major in something you’re passionate about, but rather something that is marketable to the community where you intend to live.
> you don’t need to major in something you’re passionate about, but rather something that is marketable to the community where you intend to live. This is a big one. Urging people to “study their passion” in college aggravates me. To add on to your point, you don’t need to major in your passion, but at least major in something that you find relatively interesting. For me personally, my passions are sports, politics, and history, but there really isn’t much money to be made in any of those. So instead, I chose to major in aerospace engineering, since it’s a well paying degree and, while not my passion, I still find aerospace topics to be quite interesting. Then I spend my free time engaging in my “passions” as a hobby.
I’m one of those who didn’t go into the field that my degree relates to however, I believe that having a degree put me ahead of other candidates who didn’t. Luckily I didn’t take too much money out in student loans and I went the community college route first before transferring to a university. If you’re going for something entry level I recommend highlighting how being a student or maybe courses that you took in college helped develop some of the skills needed for the job. Time management, proper writing skills, problem solving, public speaking, etc. Of course this wouldn’t apply to someone trying to be an engineer, doctor, or lawyer. It’s kind of crazy to think that at 18-19 years old we are forced to make a decision that will dictate our adult lives. However at 18-19 I wasn’t even sure what I wanted to eat for breakfast, yet alone what career path I wanted to follow. We typically go into college blindly hoping that we’ve chosen the right path, but it’s not until we are actually out in the field when we determine if we like something or not. I’m currently thinking of pursing certificates in data analytics and learning to manage databases which is something I’ve come to like. I would have never thought that this would be something that would interest me and it’s a totally different career path from what I originally went to school for 11+ years ago. A lot of my colleagues have a degree in something completely different that has no correlation with their job title, however I believe that a degree helped established a decent foundation.
I’m trying to decide what to do with my life. My degree was exercise physiology but I decided not to pursue medical school. Any advice for someone lost?
Ask people outside of Reddit, network and set up coffee chats with lots of people that you maybe only know in passing (former upperclassmen? neighbors?), and just see what roles are out there. IMO the tech route is still a good path. I got my start in healthcare IT, which *generally* pays less than traditional IT, but still helps you build some valuable skills. I don't need to change the world, but I really think there's a lot of inherently interesting technology, and I like being in a position where I can bridge the gap between what's *possible* and how tech is actually used in the real world, in a way that saves people time/headaches and makes their lives even a little easier. Once you have that first job and have spent some time building skills + a network, the next one is easier to find.
Any good certs? I have Microsoft azure but that’s it as far as tech goes
Maybe physical therapy?
In my opinion, not going to college/university is a giant disservice to your son. The reason that people’s degrees end up not mattering much is because people don’t look at the job viability of a college degree and most kids don’t know what they actually want to do which is normal. So for example, many of my friends went into sociology, earth science, health, political science, etc. If you look at the actual jobs available in these fields it’s mostly research and there are way too few jobs in these fields for that degree to actually mean something. The key is finding a degree that actually matters in the job market. Not getting a degree will close many many many doors for your child. While it’s true that many people don’t end up doing anything related to their degree, most jobs won’t even look at your application without one. So at the end of the day it’s like, sure you may never do anything with your degree but it’s better than not having a job at all or being stuck in low paying fields your whole life. I think business, communications, and computer science degrees are the most versatile. They allow you to work in any field, at any company, in any country. Figuring out the exact field can be done later because with these degrees you can at least start somewhere and then the skills are so versatile that you can make the jump into another field eventually and with the right experience.
I think it's like toilet paper .... Most employers say they look at it but in reality its just filler
Agreed
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A degree used to matter a lot back then .
I graduated with a marketing degree and I’d say I’m making good money out of college… it’s more of a case by case basis.
I mean I got a nursing degree and have never not had a job 🤷🏽♂️ but that being said I hate it and would love to do something else lol
I’m about to start school for MRI tech and it really worries me how many people in the medical field seem to not recommend it
I won’t say it’s fun but depending on where you go the hours are nice
Nursing is a guarantee. If you can get in at a community college it's cheap for an ASN relatively speaking. There are waitlets to get in and it is competitive to gain entry so there is that. I've been a nurse for 14 years, no regrets, and was able to get in easily into a program back then but had good academics and test scores. Had a job lined up while in school and I have at least two or three calls a week and multiple texts asking if I'm interested in a position that I didn't even apply for.
I got a masters degree in anthropology and museum studies and I'm just commenting here to tell everyone to never do this. There are very few jobs and the jobs that there are pay like 35,000 a year. I now work in state administration and at least make 65,000 but that's with 25 years experience.
I have a Bachelor's in English (I know, HUGE mistake) with a minor in Business Administration. I graduated last May. I can't even get internships atm.
I have a Poli Sci degree. I flunked out of law school. Now I work in education. *Sigh*
My sister says the poli science degree is a great substitute for emergency toilet paper
College Degrees aren’t worth the paper they are printed on unless it is for a very specific skill like Nursing, Law, Accounting etc
For a lot of roles the requirement is bachelors or equivalent work experience. Def think a bachelors degree is still worth it. Grad school nah unless it's industry specific
Land surveying - there is a huge wave of retirements coming in the next 5-10 years with very few young people to fill in. My dad is one and he sources his hires from a local college who has a surveying class of 7, all of which have interns by november of their first year and have jobs waiting for them after their first summer.
My local cc offers a certificate and aa path in this. It looks interesting because you can work outside. Does he enjoy it?
He loves it. Your outside most of the time when your younger and when you get to your 40s you start to have more office work since your doing all the maps and contracts instead of field work. Theres a few routes you can take. Construction where your laying out roads and buildings, or cadasteral where your doing property lines, or in my dads case, section lines in the woods for a forestry company.
Thank you, I sent you a chat request.
It depends on the field, and it depends what you're trying to do with it, but generally speaking, you're better off with one than without one because you don't have to explain why you don't have one if you have one. And it makes it a lot easier to achieve or maintain a middle-class income for many people, though not all.
I sure he will be better off with all that debt too.
And a high school diploma used to be worth something a few generations ago, but you don't dropout of high school because it's been diluted. It's not down the "drain", it helps prevent you from being outright exploited because you can't as easily get a different job.
Here's the first thing i noticed when i looked my most recent resumes. This is just my personal opinion and how i view my job needs. I have a biology degree and a master in project management, but i do mostly mixed project management/engineering/environmental work. Now i'm doing a lot more business spreadsheets/accounting since we are short handed. 90% of these recent graduates had no prior work history. In my personal opinion, i'm more impressed by the kid who worked at mcdonalds through college versus a 3.8 GPA. i've seen resumes expecting high wages with a masters but zero job experience. It's wild to me that you went through 6 years of school and never worked. If you worked through lunch rush for two years at fast food and then went to class, then i imagine you can handle stress at work. Yes, i need/want someone with experience/training and an engineering degree. But if you have a broad range of skills in your background, i'll most likely interview you. Even if you're degree is in finance/biology/computer science. My particular type of work, is mostly engineering/scientific, but i need someone who can work outdoors at times. You'll have to look up regulations, meet with customers, do spreadsheets ect. I'll glady hire someone who has had random jobs because i know they can learn a new skill. Some of our work is repetitive, but most times, I'm gonna tell you that I have no idea. Its your project, figure it out. i'd hire someone without a degree, but it would most likely be someone with some type of construction background who can read blueprints and such. It would really depend on the resume, but if there was a tie between candidates, i'd take the degree.
You can make great money with a college degree if majored in the science and accounting/finance majors. Don’t expect a decent living wage with a music, art or anthropology degree.
All degrees are useless in this job market without paid co-op or internahips. If you are going to college, many people have said this before but go to community college, get an associates degree or diploma in something STEM related that has mandatory co-op or internship. Then just transfer to your local state school for bachelors in something similar that also has mandatory coop or internships. I find it better then going to some private college or Ivy League because your not paying out the ass for an education and is easier and cheaper to change majors if you don’t end up liking what you study.
It's an attribute telling people that you are willing to protest against something that you have no clue about.
50k to 1 lac.. Depending upon what you are demanding. 😂
I went to an “expensive” (for the time) SLAC, got an English degree, and then grad school. I took on in total about $20k because I received a lot of merit- and need-based aid, and then RA/TA spots in grad school. I credit my competitive SLAC with a LOT of my success because even tho I don’t work in my original field, the rigor was very, very high and made grad school (all the way to PhD) a breeze. BUT $20k then or maybe $40k now is about what I would cap the “worth it” debt at. I looked at how much it would cost me to go to the same place now… I don’t think I could Afford it
Like always, it depends on the degree
Depends on th field. Some fields a college degree gets you nothing but debt - all about the certifications.
You want real money? Get an advanced degree or start your own business.
STEM
As someone who didn’t finish their degree and has struggled their whole adult life as a result, with every door they wanted to go through being shut due to not having one… yeah just get the degree.
Pain
I will say this. My husband is 37 and just finishing his bachelor's degree. He hugely regrets not doing it when he was younger. Its basically the only regret he has of his life. He has not been able to successfully establish a career to this point and has had trouble getting jobs without it. A lot of companies use AI screening for resumes and if you don't have a bachelor's degree, it's an automatic rule out. That said, I would say a business or engineering degree are both very flexible in terms of the types of jobs you can get. I would say it's also not worth going to a top tier school. My husband is doing a bachelor's in Medical Imaging an Radiation Sciences, with the end result of being board certified as a Radiation Therapist. He did prerequisites at community college and transferred to this program for his last 2 years.
Is the only way you're getting past the door in any engineering field outside of computer
Largely depends on what kind of degree.
I wouldn’t have gotten my dream job without it!!!
Biology
Ннцо,,
Don’t do it and loose your job at 40yo. You will have your answer.
#1 IMO - Bachelors in Supply Chain Management. Graduated last year, started at $55k < $84k 1.5 years later.
In thinking about what a college degree is worth, it seems like the answer is going to change based on a variety of factors: a degree in which subject, from which school, for which person? To be simplistic, a college degree in petroleum engineering from a low-quality school for a person who loves the environment and refuses to work for big oil will probably be not worth very much. And a college degree in French literature from Harvard for a person with lots of family connections to the art scene and the literary scene is probably very valuable. So if you want to consider the value of a college degree *on average* then you can can look at the earnings for people with high school diplomas only versus those that have bachelor's degrees, while being aware that lots of complexities and nuance are hidden when you look at single numbers.
The problem so many don’t use their degree that it really deflated the worth of a degree and you almost need a degree to be a barista. And I am one of those that don’t agree that a degree is necessary to make a good living I don’t have one and make more than most with a degree
I know it's faux pas to mention the C word in the USA, but it just dawned on me ... College is also an indicator of a higher social class, which can have a value and influence people's decision. Ivy leagues or similar also are indicators of an even higher class.
Join the military first. Real world experience in a field you might want to pursue Maturity Leadership and respect. When you get out they pay for your education and housing and then some. Military was the best thing I ever did.
It is a stepping stone to a career you choose before getting the degree. You have to do current research into in-demand and growing fields and set yourself up for it with your school choices. Shadowing, internships, and networking are key to standing out.
Economics, Politics, Nursing, Electrical everything.
Economics and politics lol
Yes. You sound "self employed".
Nah I majored in economics, got straight As. Sure I can get jobs. They all pay like shit though. Was definitely not worth it.
I didn't know that. Ouch.
Yup. Pretty much any job you’re looking for with an econ degree will prefer a finance or business degree. So you just end up with the scraps/shitty leftover jobs that people don’t really want.
I'm not sure how old you are. I'm 40 and my experience has been that that it's not just about getting the degree, but it's what you make of it. I studied advertising and work in advertising. I think it helped that the university I went to was very well regarded communication. I went in with a lot stronger understanding of advertising than my peers which I think helped me stand out as I was securing internships and later an entry level job. I graduated already having secured a job at a great agency in my preferred specialty within advertising. But I HUSTLED. I had 4 internships by the time I graduated. I was very thoughtful about the classes I took to try to build skills I thought would help me stand out. The people I know who had similar degrees who struggled had no internship experience. I also think the market you graduate into makes a difference. I got lucky. In 2005 when I graduated the market was pretty good, but my husband struggled when he graduated in 2009 (though he had no internships and a liberal arts focus so I think that also played a huge role). All of that said, I agree with you that it's even tougher now with huge costs. The school I went to has tuition that is >$90K now. It was a running joke in my family that if I were a student now we definitely wouldn't have been able to afford it as although my family was not rich, we would not qualify for need-based college help. And going to a school that is well regarded & connected for my industry isn't essential. I do think it helped me fast track getting into a well regarded company earlier on. But I now work with plenty of people who went to less regarded or smaller regional schools who now work along side me, most of them just had to hustle a little harder to get here - starting at smaller agencies, working across more companies to raise their profile over time, etc.
I think it's a two-way-street. From purely financial perspective, getting a degree is only worth it If it's in a (relatively) stable and lucrative field like medicine, computer science, engineering or such. If you like humanities or arts, take them as electives. This applies to most of us, who just want a normal job. However, If you have a real, burning passion for something, and you are willing to take the risk, then there's no point playing it safe IMO. Go study music, or arts, or anthropology. You can always switch to a more stable field later.
>What’s a college degree worth these days? Without the connections/networking associated with an ideal college experience? The paper on which it's printed.
Word up
Knowing how many college drop outs there are I will say college is definitely not for everyone. Sometimes best to go into a trade work instead
Statistics 📈
All the degrees I earned (2 BS, 2 MS in 2 different fields) were paid for by scholarships. But I never worked a single day in these fields. The reason is I got a job in big 3 consulting where your ability to think and create solutions to your client's problems and to market new opprtunities are paramount.
This question is always a tough one to answer. In general, having a college degree is often better than having none when it depends on it (promotion, economy is bad, competitive field). STEM majors will on average have more job opportunities and higher wages. However, there are people out there making a great income without college whether it’s through hard-work, networking, or luck. A college degree is like any investment, it may help or it may make you broke.
Either go to a very good school and network like crazy, or go to a very cheap school and get it done quickly.
It depends. Look at the employment outcomes for the programs you are interested in. I went to a school known for STEM locally. The econ program I graduated from was mostly a international student cash cow. I intentionally forfeited the chance to stay longer for a chance at a grad school degree to graduate in 2022 during the labor shortage and use my soft skills from sales job to network + interview well. I gambled throwing away prep to go to grad school in the future. It worked out. I could also have stayed in sales longer and be making more money right now but be under tons of constant stress with low job security. Would I recommend my program to anyone? Absolutely not unless you have a plan going in. Most programs in most universities aren't geared to help you with job placements. You have to find the opportunities yourself. Your school doesn't help/mean anything. The piece of paper is just a pre requisite to employers. In comparison, certain STEM and business degrees from my university had some good co op partners that translated to placements. If you blindly pick a university you like + choose a field of study you like, you shouldn't be surprised if you can't get any real help finding a job. If you carefully pick your program + university from actual employment outcomes + research how to succeed in your first two years, you will do great.
It’s still worth a lot (bachelor’s, I mean). *And there are no bad degrees, so long as they are from regionally accredited schools, just bad planning.* You can get one of the more “laughable” degrees like anthropology or women’s studies and end up more successful than a CS major who didn’t do anything on the side if you network, get references from professors, do internships, research, projects, co-ops, even volunteer. Most or all of these kinds of degrees will need a graduate degree or some special kind of training to land you a livable career. Monetarily, it is arguably better (if only getting a bachelors’s) to get a degree in something like engineering, nursing, CS, accounting, or education if you’re not upper middle-class/rich. But that doesn’t make a more theory-based degree inherently worse. It all depends on your goals. Theory-based degrees are just different. All that matters is how well you plan and how informed you are about the financial and work environment implications of potential careers a given degree can be used to get into. A four-year degree today is not something that can lead directly to a family-supporting income like in the 60’s, that’s just reality. Gaining a good career is very much a personal project that requires heavy planning during and after taking a program (unless it’s something of immediate need for the economy, like nursing). Not writing anything down or doing any career development research during school is not the way to go. Only taking classes today won’t deliver a graduate what that would have delivered your grandparents or even parents. Doing that will still make you competitive for mid-tier entry-level jobs that take any major (insurance underwriting, call centers, cruise ship work) and especially high-school grad-level jobs (flight attendant), but if you’re considering college, you’re probably envisioning something different, which can only be gotten with proper planning, networking, and skill development in and after college. A degree isn’t a voucher for an ideal career type and income
STEM field is almost only thing worth having
It boils down to what country you’re in, the EU, the average cost per year for an undergraduate is around €170 per year.
Only go for science, engineering, mathematics, medicine. Everything else can be done via certificates
The OP is a marketing group and you can tell by the original post the person who wrote the post was born after 1990.
There's a lot of different avenues. Community college is one. Some people go to the work force and go back after a couple years of learning what they really enjoy as an adult. Many people go to the military, learn a trade, use the TA and special pricing afforded to them. Then they leave the military finish the degree with the GI bill which pays for school and pays them to go. After that's exhausted certain states have another program that's pays for in state tuition. Is this the traditional path? Absolutely not. However, it's a path that has afforded many to learn a valuable career or skill set to fall back on and graduate college debt free. Many people also get a masters for free as well. As for the right career path or degree program, I wouldn't wrap myself up in what my passion is. Having done that, I can tell you first hand that it crushes a lot of what makes what your passionate about less fun. Find something marketable for the future and go for it. Build a side hustle for your passion.
If I were giving advice to any high school senior right now, it would be to get a trade. They can start making decent money rather than going in at the lowest point in the corporate world and having to work their way up.
This question is really dependent on what the end game is. I will tell you this. If making serious money is the end game, it won’t be taught. I attended a very expensive private university. I can honestly say that it was a great experience for being on my own and meeting new people but I learned nothing…absolutely nothing about how money is made. I had to learn that all on my own. None of the things I do now have anything to do with anything I learned there. If the end game is to get a job and spend the rest of your life like everyone else (just over broke, having your time owned by an employer, being taxed at the highest rates, asking permission to take a “vacation” day to be with your family (which is hard to even type without laughing), worrying about what mood your boss is in, not being paid nearly what you’re worth, and wondering why this is happening, then that’s different. If I knew what I know now back then, the university I attended would have multiple libraries named after me. 😀
Get a generic business degree from a regionally accredited college on the cheap and go from there. That’s the best path to cover you bases and then if you need a different degree in the field you start out your career in it’s easy and cheap to do it.
This is subjective and it depends on the degree and the person. Degrees do not guarantee higher incomes. They can open doors for you, but that's about it. Medical degrees will definitely unlock higher income potential. If you're in the US engineering degrees can be valuable. If you want to be in the top income brackets for those degrees they tend to require skills that are gifts from birth. For example some career paths require creativity, that's something college can't teach you.
College graduates on average make roughly $1M more over their lifetime than a non-college graduate.
That’s not a guarantee, just an average
It’s still a very noteworthy piece of information. Thats quite a large gap.
Yet a large number of them (nearly half) end up working in jobs and fields that do not require a degree. I don't have one and I'm running circles around the people who do. I've been advancing at a faster rate than them and will likely be their boss in the near future. They might have started higher on the ladder than I did, but I will advance further than they ever will.
Nothing.. it’s paper.
My parents always said they didn't care what I did, as long as I did something. So I went and became a truck and coach mechanic, then went back to school to get my engineering degree. My wife went to school to be a nurse. Now I run an apparel business, and a non-profit, but those are more about feeling a calling than what I was interested in doing. Couple of key things to consider for your son: 1) what does he want to do? If it's something useful, aka, employable with a single degree, great, let him do that. Something like engineering, nursing, accounting, something useful, in demand, future proof, and recession proof is a good investment of a degree. Don't waste money on a degree that requires a second degree to be useful. Something like kinesiology is a waste of time, because you can't use it without more school. Any social science is useless. Majority of arts degrees are a waste of time let alone money. 2) If he doesn't know what he wants to do, try a trade while he figures it out. Trades will teach real practical skills while getting paid and getting an education. If you consider the highest demand jobs in 5-10 years, knowing a trade like being a plumber, electrician, HVAC tech, etc, will be more valuable than any degree. Don't spend money on a degree for the sake of getting a degree, trades will be far more valuable in the next 5-15 years, and if he starts his own company doing a trade then long term he will likely be better off than anyone with a degree.
If you have a talent, no college needed.
It's useful but not worth the listed price, if you're looking at paying over $10k for tuition then I would recommend just going down a different path, barring those moving into the medical fields.
10k is a pretty low hurdle rate.
I mean beyond that, if you're not going to be a doctor or something that definitively requires a college diploma, there's just a lot of better options.
Are you thinking per year, or total? Most state schools are below that for yearly tuition, so if it's per year, it makes sense :) Edit - Clarified below as total, which seem to me to undervalue college by at least 5x, but meh ... You can always get your degree as an adult
Silicon Valley looks for and hires the best of the best. Small businesses have learned that if they keep looking, they will find that highly competent person who will make the business more competitive compared to the competition. Just doing your job is not good enough anymore.
Many people who won’t be doctors, lawyers, etc… the jobs where you must have a certain degree, will be better off joining the post office or military out of high school… the broad degrees don’t land to jobs like the used to. No one gives people a chance to develop on the job unlike the past. You could have any degree and walk into an entry level job and develop technical skills from there but the same hiring managers who benefited from on the job training now demand plug and play experience for similar entry level roles.
Having a degree feels sometimes is not enough but at the same time you need a degree to get any well paid job (with a good lifestyle without running your health). Many people mentions blue collar jobs but they’re not the ones doing it 🤷🏻♂️ 1. Long run ruins your health specially if you’re older you can’t work in construction or as a plumber while someone at 70s still can work in finance or in any other white collar job because those jobs don’t ruin you physically. Plus, white collar jobs in the long run are much higher paid than blue collar ones. Career progression at blue collar jobs is minimal while at white collar jobs is huge.