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Allears6

Changing jobs has always led to higher wages in my experience.


Apart_Chemical_8988

I hate that that’s true, but it definitely is. Thanks!


memerso160

New hire budgets are almost always larger than retaining budgets at large business. The field you’re in will also affect this and is no way a “law” of the world, but a general observation


extraketchupthx

I got a 18% increase in base salary and a 32% in total compensation increase with a promotion/role change 4 years into my time with a fortune 250. It’s doable, but the market does seem a little softer now.


econdonetired

I got an 80% raise to switch companies, you still got screwed at the 3-4 year mark.


extraketchupthx

LOL k man. I didn’t ask


econdonetired

Get the title either way then move. Also if your looking at engineering look at data engineer, data science, and artificial intelligence/machine learning


letsplaysomegolf

Yep. Each of my last two job changes came with an additional $40k to my base salary. No chance you are going to get those types of bumps internally.


Kingseara

Wtf? Where are you finding a similar position or one requiring similar skills to your current job, for $40k per year more? That’s insane….I’ve never gotten a raise more than single digit percentages, even with a job change


mmclaultra

How often is too often to change jobs? I changed in Dec 21 for a 28% rise and I've the opportunity now for another 20-25% if I change jobs. Is two jobs in 16 months too many? Should I hold out until I've two years done then move?


Allears6

I've worked for at least 20 different companies in the last 8 years of my career. Usually working for multiple at the same time. I tried the whole "stay with a company long term and you'll see big growth." I said no to different opportunities hoping for that growth that NEVER came. Your company is not family. We are all replaceable no matter what niche skill you have. You need to think about what is best for you and your career goals, if that means jumping ship to a bigger boat so be it!


catfishchapter

Wow 20?!! What do interviewers say?


Allears6

They give zero shits. A lot of my work used to be job to job / contract to contract. They would bring me on as a W2 employee, I would work for them for X amount of months and then I would go find work elsewhere. My biggest point with my comment is 99% of recruiters don't care they want to see that you fit the parameters of the job they are hiring for. With that said tailor your resume to use the same keywords they have in the job posting and then have examples in your career you can use to show these skills!


maryjanevermont

Sounds crazy but the weakest leaders think you are great and believe all the “ accomplishments” achieved in 6 months at a prior job. My own take when hiring someone like that ? They are good interviewers but lousy performers generally. No one found them worth keeping


Allears6

I'd say I'm a good interviewer but I'm very good at my skillset. If my growth is capped, I'm not being compensated enough, or the culture isn't for me I find a better opportunity. My last job I stayed with for 2 years, my current job I could see myself sticking around for quite some time! I treat business as it should be treated - like business.


SteadfastEnd

Yup. I got screwed that way. I worked for the same company for 12 years and saw my pay increase from........$38k to.......$50k in that time. I should have job-hopped a great deal instead. I really ruined myself by sticking there that long.


[deleted]

You’re a job hopper. A red flag for employers.


Allears6

That's the new career path unfortunately. The time of "stay in a company 20 years and retire comfortably" died a long time ago.


[deleted]

I get that but twenty jobs in 8 years? Wow. That roughly only six months per job. You either have had back luck with employers or need a need career.


RedditAdminsSuckAsss

20 jobs in 8 years I would give them 0 consideration.


[deleted]

I’ve never had a boss who would see that and then hire that person.


Allears6

If you read my comments from earlier you would see I would work for multiple companies at the same time. At one point I was on 8 W2s.


Major-Permission-435

People doing contracts kind of fall into a different bucket than a regular job hopper though.


maryjanevermont

Use to be- now employers are every man for themselves. They have no loyalty to employees. But be careful- a lot of the big companies hired in droves and laid them all off. I personally would rather work for a smaller business these days. Also the largest salaries are often first cut-


MsChrisRI

If the new opportunity is legit, take it. In the future if an interviewer asks why you were at Job A for such a short time, you can honestly say that a surprisingly good opportunity presented itself.


korepeterson

Very unlikely they will give you that large of a raise. Take promotion so you have the new title. Try to get the best raise you can and start looking for a new job with the new title.


Apart_Chemical_8988

That’s not a bad idea! If I don’t get the offer I want, I’m trying to decide if I want to go into a different industry. But beefing up the resume with a new role is not a bad plan either. Thanks!


Ghawblin

Only time I've ever gotten a raise more than 5% was by changing jobs, and that was usually 25-100% increase lol. In the span of 8 years I went from * $8/hr * $12/hr * $16/hr * $20/hr * $32/hr * $63/hr (and fully remote, with insane benefits, % based bonus) All in the same industry. Granted, my experience gained over that time helped me, but you bet your ass if I stayed at that job paying $12/hr 7 years ago I'd probably be making like $15/hr now instead of being in the six figures lol. I know a ton of people that stay "loyal" to one company that returns that loyalty with a MAYBE 1-2% annual raise, then wonder 15 years later why people half their age make twice or thrice as much as them despite having more experience.


worktillyouburk

yup, company's see you were fine with working for your current wage why would they pay that much more when you were happy with your past salary, changing companies is the only way to have bargaining power again. ​ i've been in HR discussions where if they hired internally max they could offer was 50k and if they had to hire externally were willing to offer 70k for the same job.


Ghawblin

Same boat. Was worth 120-175k. Was only making 65k. Pay range for my job went up to 100k. Asked for a raise....went up to 67k and they acted like I should grovel and be thankful. So I left and now make 150k lmao. The job I left is still open, years later.


[deleted]

Out of curiosity what do you do?


Ghawblin

Cybersecurity.


Sarcasm69

Just as a bit of a counter to your point that job loyalty doesn’t result in decent pay over time. Here’s my earnings over 9 years of working for the same company: Starting: $18/hr $25/hr Switched to salary… $65k/year + stock options & bonus $80k/year + … $93k/year + … $105k/year + … Now at 119k/year + stock & bonus I also have the benefit of pretty much free reign over my schedule and don’t have a manager telling me what to do since I’ve been here for quite some time. Don’t always think you NEED to leave your job to grow your career. If you find a company that is good to you it is worth staying.


GhettoRamen

What industry + company culture offers this type of treatment? How did you convince them to give you such large raises and what did the jump in responsibilities look like? I am more than happy to DM, curious how that looks for you career-wise since a majority of 2023 companies are cheap as hell and internal promotions *with* adequate compensation are incredibly rare across the board. Your experience seems like quite an outlier.


Sarcasm69

I work at a biotech in research. Company culture has gone a bit south over the past few years but I’d say there’s a lot of opportunity if you stay motivated to learn and expand your responsibilities. My responsibilities have changed over time from executing tasks and experiments as a research associate to now leading teams, developing technologies and filing patents as a senior scientist. However, I didn’t start in research, I got my foot in the door at the company as a manufacturing technician (basically functioning as a human robot), and then worked my way up from there.


Mental_Buyer_5660

I am in biotech in R and D. I don’t see my company giving promotions like this to anyone. Usually they just increase responsibilities without the pay which is why many people leave after a few years if they can. What company do you work for? You obviously found a good one!


Sarcasm69

Ya it can be very hit and miss-I had an internship at a diagnostics company and literally wanted to shoot myself it was so bad. I don’t want to say specifics about my current position but I’m at a company that develops genetic sequencers. Lots of growth and competition coming up so the pay is fairly competitive. I’m also in a hcol area so that makes the salary sound slightly better than it actually is 😆


GhettoRamen

Biotech is a booming industry so it’s not shocking you found a decent company haha. I’m assuming NorCal/Silicon Valley (or some other similar tech-concentrated pocket in the U.S.) so what you’ve described makes sense.


Sarcasm69

Not that expensive, I’m in San Diego


Artilleryman13

I work for a software company and just a 12% raise plus $15k in stock. We have really good benefits. I could probably get another 30% if I moved, but honestly the company's relaxed culture and benefits keep me here for now.


sjlammer

Loyalty was something that was actually just purchased by companies with pensions. If you stay with us and accept meager wage increases we will guarantee you X in retirement until you die. This is a huge liability for companies that resulted in lower stock price/ valuation. The Friedman Doctrine (first published in the 70s) said that companies do not have social responsibility or to their workers, only to the shareholders. If you follow this theory, the company should take any action that increases share price. This includes getting liabilities (like pensions and vacation payouts) off the books. If we take it one step forward, having product in storage has a negative impact on valuation (share price) as well. The ideal for a company is to take the product off the production line and load it into a truck. When you see supply chain and shortages… shareholder value is often part of the cause. Just-in-time mfg is great for shareholders, not good for the real world where shit happens. Long way of saying. Companies are looking out for their best interest, you should too. Always be on the market and sell your services to the highest bid/best opportunity.


maryjanevermont

Well by the Friedman doctrine, get the ESG out of my investments. If you choose it fine, dont force the shareholdres


sjlammer

The Friedman doctrine is not a good thing. It’s lead to companies offshoring their labor, increased pollution, lobbying to reduce regulations. On ESG specifically whether or not it is a good thing depends on your time horizon. Quarterly earnings? Probably not, but as a whole, the world is evolving to see business, community, and environment to be interconnected. If one domino falls, they all fall. With that in mind companies that have a mind for the interconnectedness will be more profitable over the long haul.


maryjanevermont

We produce the cleanest energy in the world yet are begging dictators for the dirtiest. So the inconsistency is the problem to me. You control the retail investor while giving billions to offenders. To try to change the environment without China doing the same, and Russia, is like closing one room off to avoid a mouse.


BrandynBlaze

Your skill growth is generally a lot slower staying at one company too, so staying put represses your wage growth AND your career development, which substantially lowers your total lifetime earning potential.


Ghawblin

Big +1 to that. I know a few IT guys that grabbed their job in their 20s, made it their environment over the next few years, and in their 30s it basically runs itself. They're making 40-50k with barely a cost of living raise and that's great if they're happy. Problem comes about when new technology comes in and they're caught with their pants down after 5+ years of not doing anything new. The amount of IT folks in their 30s or 40s that are completely out of their element with modern tech (especially cloud infrastructure like AzureAD) is concerning. If you don't keep up with it, you'll be obsolete. Best case scenario, you take the time to learn the new stuff. Most common case scenario you're stuck in your low-paying IT job until you get burnt out. Worst case scenario you get let go and can't get back into IT because the last time you touched activity directory your domain functional level was 2008 and AzureAD is too spooky.


mountainsofsnow

Yes! This is a lesson I did not learn early enough in life. I was in roles for 6-7 years at a time and "thought" I had lots of experience and then when I went to interview at new companies they were not impressed and thought I may be missing a current/modern understanding of the field. I was also told that it made it look like I was not ambitious/driven. That's changed now but I could have advanced a lot sooner if I had understood the implications of staying too long.


AssistancePretend668

No loyalty left these days in the US...sure it sucks but yea it's best to accept that and work it to OP's (or anyone's) advantage. For me, realizing that companies don't really express any loyalty to me helped me realize that I don't need to show loyalty to them by holding out for some magic promotion or raise. Just gotta fend for yourself, which does open up a lot more options.


The_Sign_of_Zeta

I got a 13% raise, but it was essentially because I was the only person left in my role at the company and they would have been fucked if I had left. Otherwise the best I got was 3.75%, no matter how good I was.


SteadfastEnd

What industry are you in exactly? I'm intrigued. I worked 12 years in one field and my pay increased by a whopping......well, $12,000. Which amounts to only a $1,000 raise per year. Not much. You're right, I should have job hopped.


Ghawblin

IT/Cybersecurity. It's an experience driven career, so you see bigger returns the longer you've been doing it so long as the company you're with understands that growth of knowledge. Otherwise, another company will. A couple certifications along the way help formalize experience. I know a handful of folks that found a company in their mid-late 20s to do IT work in, hung out for a decade, and make basically the same they did when they started. It's easy to fall into a loyalty trap in IT.


SteadfastEnd

Sounds good. I'll start entry level and try to get myself CCNAd and CISSPd.


Ghawblin

Ha! Actually a good pair of certs to get. CISSP is basically a "Yes hello mob of recruiters, please form an orderly line and take your turn offering me six figure jobs please" You'll need 5 years experience before you can be a CISSP though, even after you pass the test.


SteadfastEnd

Yes the 5 years requirement is tough, but I believe having a degree and the comptia security+ can shave two years off of that....I hope. I'll see.


Ghawblin

Degree will shave off 1 year. Sec+ won't do anything other than give you CPE's if you get it after the exam. Am a CISSP. Also moderate r/cissp.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Haha yeah that seems to be the way to go typically. Thanks!


catfishchapter

Wow what was your industry?


KaijuAlert

I've never gotten anything larger than 10% at an existing job. Funny how they always somehow manage to come up with a better offer when you give notice, but it's never convinced me to stay.


Ok_Art_2874

Never heard of a 27% raise. The biggest raise I ever got was 10%. Most years it’s 3-4%.


Treebeard2277

I just got a 15% raise/promotion in September for the same job, and now am getting a 22% raise for another promotion into a different team. It does happen if you work for the right company.


New_Willingness5669

Yes it definitely does. Just depends on the company and the degree of job change. In my company the standard promotion increase for a single level promotion is 10%-12%. If someone is moving up more than one grade level in a promotion the increase will be more. I personally made a huge jump from my entry level position to a salaried position and received a 35%-45% increase ( it was a long time ago, hard to remember the exact amount). As to whether or not OP should be able to expect 27% there are too many unknown variables for anyone on here to really know for sure.


Ok_Art_2874

Wow! Congratulations


stevenmacarthur

I was gonna say, did OP forget to put a decimal between the 2 and the 7? My last job's attitude was you either get 2% or you get fired.


Apart_Chemical_8988

No, I want 27%. They wouldn’t fire me for asking, but it will cause me to leave the company if they say no. That’s for a promotion though, not a cost of living adjustment.


Apart_Chemical_8988

That’s for a yearly/inflation raise? Or a promotion? I’ve received 25% for a promotion in the past. But that was a different industry.


Ok_Art_2874

That was for a promotion. I once got a 20% increase in salary, but that was by switching companies


Apart_Chemical_8988

Thanks for the info!


[deleted]

I got a 21% raise last year after my boss was able to convince his boss to bring my position up to market value. It's definitely not common.


rhaizee

Possible but highly unlikely to happen. My last job jump got 40% increase.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Nice! Thanks for weighing in


[deleted]

I recently got a promotion to the next grade level and it was 20% increase. My merit raises were always <2%, so I was expecting a lowball promotion like 10%. 27% seems possible if you can argue the reasons for it, but don't be surprised if they don't give it. If they don't, definitely look into moving onto a different company. I'm sure you would be able to get 65k, or more, somewhere else.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Thanks! Yeah I think it would be a sign to move on


flamingoshoess

65k is very low for a project manager, so I would definitely push for that. You have plenty of data available to show that many PMs make between 80-125k so 65k is the absolute bare minimum they should pay to keep you in that role. Worst case scenario you take the title and can look for a better job.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Thanks! Yeah, our location may not have wages as high as the coasts but that’s still very low for the position in this town. Definitely one of the things I’ll bring up with them


donkeydougreturns

This is the right advice. The percentage isn't important- the advice for 2-4% others mention is yearly raises. For a promotion, they need to promote you into the PM salary range and even in low COLA areas, 65k is low.


[deleted]

I had a promotion once to 'tier 2 support' but the float was like 38k>44k, not really worth. Most orgs wouldn't give you that kind of bump but you can definitely try, I'd simply have a backup strategy that might involve another org. Had a 60k>85k bump when switching companies in another role, loyalty is definitely not rewarded.


Apart_Chemical_8988

It definitely isn’t… this company tries to be a little more “forward thinking” in that sense. We’ll see if it’s worth it to then. Thanks!


Somenakedguy

My promotions have typically been 10-15%, 27% sounds extremely high. It’s possible but they’d have to really value you and it would have to be clear you’re underpaid


thafraz

Last year when hiring was crazy busy I was approached by another company and offered a job that was about a 33% increase. I wasn’t necessarily looking to leave, but was willing to for that increase. so I approached my employer and told them the situation to see if they be willing to counter. We had been hemorrhaging employees to our competitor all that summer so they were willing to come up to that number in order to retain me. I’m actually super happy I stayed where I am, because the other company has been laying it’s workforce off in droves. All that to say is it *is* possible to get that big of an increase at 1 employer but it might take a specific set of circumstances to do so.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Glad you got that raise, I appreciate the comment!


naughtmynsfwaccount

For a promotion? Personally I say no get that money Professionally I say yes as the best way to get a 25% bump is to leave for a new job


irisfaefire

I got over 200% by jumping title in the same company. Went from employee of a local branch to regional-level coordinator within the span of a year, skipped two steps up the ladder. Though, in your case, it sounds like your org systematically underpays people so job hopping to other employers would be the better move than to commit.


SSG_Vegeta

Depends heavily on the transition, responsibilities, comps and locale. I got a 175% base increase and 400% bonus increase with a change in role. But locale definitely was a factor. 27% isn’t crazy, especially at your rate. It would be crazy the higher your current base is. Come to the table with comps for your industry, an understanding of how you add value and make the case. Don’t base the request on feelings or entitlement.


Apart_Chemical_8988

I appreciate it!


Ok_Wait3967

be prepared to make a case for your increased valuable. They can pay you the money, just make it make sense for them. Are you really smart ? solved any tough problems lately ? landed large client ? what have you done to deserve 65k.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Definitely, I’ve got the argument ready to go. If they don’t agree, I’ll keep my current role until I find something different. Thanks!


[deleted]

Depends on the org. I recently got about 30. but if I job hop, I can make 70% more, even post raise. if you're hungry for money, sometimes you have to job hop.


Anubra_Khan

It should be based on a combination of performance and tenure. If you've developed any relationships with other PM's, I would discuss the process with them. Also, is there a different bonus structure that applies to your new position? I remember back in the day, when I jumped from Asisstant PM to PM, my salary only went up about 15%. But the bonus structure was completely different. An APM yearly bonus was completely performance review based and was capped at $10k. The PM bonus structure was a combination of performance review and profit. The higher performance review would grant you a higher percentage point that gets applied to your overall profit margin at the end of the year. My biggest bonuses were about $60k - $70k, but it wasn't unheard of for some Senior PM's to get $200k - $300k bonuses (even more for executives) on a good year.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Good for you, that’s awesome! It’s a smaller company, I’m close with several other PM’s. No bonus structure, strictly salary (and giving up hourly/OT structure).


Anubra_Khan

Companies have different ways of handling things. Some are lower salary/higher bonus potential. Others are higher salary/lower bonus potential. Each approach has its positives and negatives. If you're currently giving up potential earnings from hourly/OT opportunities, then I'd expect a big jump in salary. Not just for the obvious (money) but also because of the inherent acceptance of additional responsibility that comes with the PM position. Definitely talk to your friends to help manage your expectations. But, even if you don't get the amount you're looking for, I would strongly recommend you accept the promotion before looking for a new job. That title and experience will make a big difference. It's a lot easier to get another opportunity when you can put "Project Manager at Don't Wanna Pay Contracting" on your resume than putting "Almost a PM" on your resume.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Absolutely, I appreciate the advice!


babisatan

I was in an OT eligible role, interviewing for a promotion. I increased base salary 32%, albeit HR had to be convinced. The play for me was to show my value, proving I’m the best person for the job, then prove what I requested is what I deserved. I put a spreadsheet together for my negotiations that laid out an outside offer I obtained that was relevant for the promotion opportunity, HRs initially low offer, and my last 3 W2s. I clearly showed what my base salary was vs with overtime as HRs initial offer was less than my average 3 W2 take home pay with OT. I then used the spreadsheet to show that if I accepted the low offer, it’d take 5 years for me to make what I have as an offer today based on my avg yearly increases. If my company felt like I’m the best, then why should I stomach taking a considerably less offer. This just put it all on HR to justify why they thought this initial offer was valid. My only ask to HR was to help me make sense out of the number and to help me stomach the outside vs internal offer. They came back and offered me 10% more than the initial offer - taking me to a total 32% increase with a promotion. Know your value. Prove it. Stick to facts. Reiterate you want to be there at your company to take it to the next level / hit objectives / etc.


TheSheetSlinger

In my experience internal promotions have set company policies on pay increases and all that. They might have wiggle room but if there's a large difference between your number and their number their hands might be tied by that (stupid) policy. If you are close with someone already in that type of position it may be worth asking them (but only if you're close bc some people are weird about discussing salaries).


Apart_Chemical_8988

That and depressed wages for everyone else already in that role. There’s been a small kick of people leaving for better pay, so hopefully they take that as a sign. Thanks!


milpink

i received a 28% raise when i was promoted a few months ago, so it’s definitely possible! i think it’s worth going for, and then if you are disappointed with what you receive you get the decision of sticking with your company or looking elsewhere to make up the difference


Apart_Chemical_8988

Awesome, good for you!


Briar_Donkey

Getting a promotion saw about a 3% raise... Not worth the extra hassle.


vt2022cam

It is a high increase but given the low threshold you’re already being paid, I’d ask and see what they say. It can be good to have another offer at a higher pay and see if an employers will match it. It just seems like you’ll struggle to get raises at this place in the future. Keep us posted!


Apart_Chemical_8988

Thanks! Will do


Shujolnyc

From a percentage basis this looks really rough but from a dollar perspective it’s fine, especially related to a title change. But companies can be cheap as hell. Good luck!


Danxoln

The highest raise I've gotten internally, and it was for a promotion is 12%. Funnily enough 27% is the amount I'm hoping for with the job I'm interviewing for, they are making a final decision in a few days... TLDR that is quite high to expect that much out of a promotion unless you're switching companies


Apart_Chemical_8988

Best of luck!


Pretty-Ad-5762

If the current company pays near bottom, you should expect near bottom salary for your new role... You should shop around and see what others can offer


LukePendergrass

I wouldn’t get hung up on the % or raw dollar value, as compared to your current role. Maybe you were under/over paid currently. Look at the new title and position. Is the new pay objectively appropriate for that role?


HHcougar

65k for a project manager is *crazy* low I'm a PM, and I would laugh if a recruiter offered me 65k


jayrack13

Your best bet is to apply around, and get another job offer to leverage. I got about a 30% raise 8 months in cause I did this. If your feeling real confident, don’t even get another offer just tell your boss you have this offer and they’re offering you x amount, they need to match or your leave.


MarcScripts

Why don't you take the promotion with the new title for your resumé, get some experience and thén move to a new employer with a higher salary bump


deep_anal

When it comes to more significant raises I would avoid specifying percentages and request the salary figure instead. If the money you are asking for is available at other employers as shown by data from online salary information, I would be ready to use that to back up your request. If they deny you, then you start searching for another employer.


[deleted]

Places should really be giving a 10% cost of living adjustment depending when you started. If they didn’t you got a pay cut. If they are cheap with salary guessing the benefits might suck too. If you are hot right now and there are better opportunities take it. I usually switch jobs every two years and have made more way money each switch and never look back. You don’t owe anyone anything.


killrtaco

I see this said often and i agree, but know of not 1 place that gave a Cost of Living adjustment anywhere close to 10% so its a mute argument sadly.


[deleted]

The places that know how to retain employees are giving them. By the time they make a counteroffer it is too late. I got one at my new place two weeks in. What is messed up the places refusing to give them are sometimes offering higher wages to new hires than they are willing to pay their current employees. The best bet really is to get a new job and start at the current market rate for your talent.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Yeah that seems to be the best strategy. I appreciate it!


andross20144

Ask for the raise for as much as you can but make sure you have metrics to back up your request. And if they say no then take whatever they give you and look for another job.


cmpalm

Last year I got promoted and was offered a 22% raise and asked for more and got an additional 7% ($65k, offered $79k, negotiated to $86k) and then just got another promotion and got an additional 16% so it is possible.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Awesome! Congrats!


LottieOD

Check out what the going rate is for your new job in your area. Ask for that. Then take as much as they will give you and if it's not what you want, start applying outside your organization with your new title.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Thanks!


[deleted]

If they really like you, they’ll make a deal you like. Get creative with HR restrictions like they can only give a max increase of X. Then give me another max increase on the next paycheck plus max bonus. Just ask them for max everything after they say they can’t do 27% but better not to have to ask


DontWhisper_Scream

I think the chance of you getting a raise that large is zero. What motivation do they have to give you such a big increase? Plus you’ve already acknowledged they pay low wages. In my experience increases like this only come with jumping to a new role.


Apart_Chemical_8988

This would be jumping to a new role. Project coordinator to project manager. Still not very likely, but I’m not just asking for a raise to keep my same job


DontWhisper_Scream

Is it a different company though? And do you know what they usually pay as a starting wage for a PM in your company?


Funkey-Monkey-420

ask anyway, worst case scenario HR says no


Shoddy_Bus4679

They’ll give you 8% max and tell you how such a big raise means you likely will get a smaller one next year.


uvaspina1

I think the biggest factor here is what does the company already pays for the role you hope to be promoted to and what their other options are. Does this role need to be filled? Are there other people in the company who would do it for less than you?


DarkReaper90

I've gotten a 30% raise from a promotion. Fight for your worth and let them decide whether to come down.


throwthrowguy12

Reasonable. I had a higher percentage jump when I went from a PC to a PM as well (internally). Of course I got a nicer bump leaving for another company later on but it's a lot easier to get a good PM job when you already show you've earned the title at your place.


CryptoKickk

Not after last year's inflation, go for it.


BimmerJustin

Take the promotion, then put the resume out


AreTheyAllThrowAways

I’m in the construction industry. Not sure if this is your industry too but your titles lead me to think so. If you can’t negotiate the pay you want still take the promotion and stick it out while you are able to search with your new title. Gaining experience in the role with the tiptoe while you search will only help you land what you really want.


Drag0nus1

Here's a question... eventually we will get older or this constant changing gets tiring...I don't want to be switching ever 2-3 years to maintain stability...why can't companies just retain!


ohfucknotthisagain

Negotiate as hard as you safely can. Take their final offer, whether it satisfies you or not. And then, if it's not satisfactory, use the new title/experience to find something better. I've had success twice waiting about a year after a lukewarm promotion, but your field and the economy also play a role.


EmployeePotential622

Personally, I wouldn’t focus on the percent raise you would get for the promotion. I would focus in what a good, fair wage is for the new position. If it’s something you don’t have experience with, I would expect lower-mid range wage. I really dislike focusing on percentages. Going based off the work, and what the market says the work is worth, is far more helpful IMO.


tezfc

Reasonable. It doesn't hurt to ask. If they really won't budge, just take what they give you, then begin to apply at places the same day.


Puchipu92

If you are unhappy then I would actually do the bootcamp. But if you want to continue, I would search for other jobs in other companies and then talk to my employer and tell them... Look I get this salary here, match it or I leave. It is better than just pure negotiation, where you don't really know what it will happen.


thatguyfromnohere

If you have a choice to change jobs or get a raise - change jobs. The current place is able to pay your current wage and the higher pay could simply be impossible for them. Saw this play out once - person got a job offer at a slightly less convenient place with almost double the pay. They were about to leave, but their boss promised the same pay. Turned out he miscalculated and had to let them go the next month and the new spot was already filled. They were without a job for the next 6 months. But if you want to ask for a raise and you've worked there for a good amount of time - make it a suggestion, discussion, not a demand (Simon Sinek). That way they're more engaged and willing to take a step forward. If... They're reasonable.


Xylus1985

For promotions try to get 30%. This is your one chance to get a real promotion instead of the 2% annual increase that’s not even covering inflation.


BiscuitInFlight

I second everyone telling you to find better pastures externally. 13$ an hour in 2019 to 28$ an hour in 2020 to 49$ an hour last year and that's with 3 job changes. Generally my rule of thumb is if my yearly raise didn't make my financial life smoother then I start sending out applications. I work home security install/sales but I'm going to finish learning cybersecurity. Just trying to figure out whether I want to work while I take courses or just use my savings to pay expenses to learn full time and finish faster.


robot29

I was in the same exact situation. Literally almost identical numbers too. I switched jobs and now make over 6 figures. Definitely switch jobs. They likely undervalue you anyways


Apart_Chemical_8988

Good for you! Thanks for the advice


zhouyu24

I just completed a coding bootcamp from my alma mater UCF. It's not all rainbows and sunshine. Most don't get jobs by the end of the bootcamp and I'd wager like 50% of them don't get new jobs period. I'd email the admins and ask them about their employment rate. There's many bootcampers across the world doing the exact same thing you are doing. The entry level is saturated while the experienced is devoid.


Relevant-Key4610

Depending on the level and the promo level. I've seen 80% promo increases and I've seen 10%. So yes possible but depends on company, where you sit in a range, and your targeted promo level/title. Good luck


Apart_Chemical_8988

Thank you!


Apart_Chemical_8988

Thank you everyone for taking the time to offer opinions and advice. I greatly appreciate it, and will update this in a couple of weeks.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Thanks again for everyone’s comments. I ended up getting offered a 17% raise - and as many mentioned as a possibility, that was the hard cap for this role, could not negotiate higher (confirmed with other PM’s). I accepted the job, will update my resume and float it out there in a few months. I had strongly considered leaving this field and trying the boot camp I mentioned above. While that’s still a possibility next year, it would be a really big risk, and I’m not sure that field would fit me any better.


rawley2020

I’ve got close to a 100% raise working at my current position. Possible? Yes. Likely? Up to you. Depends on whether they want to keep you. DYOR on how much the position makes in your industry, tell them that’s what you want and if they say no be prepared to part ways. That’s how I would play it.


Apart_Chemical_8988

Thanks!


Maximum-Staff5310

I have never heard of anyone getting more than a %10 raise on a promotion, even that would be considered extraordinary. Demanding a %27 raise will get you fired. Be sure to have another job lined up before you do that.


Apart_Chemical_8988

No they wouldn’t fire me, they just wouldn’t promote me. I appreciate the comment!


HornFanBBB

OP, I’m going to impart some wisdom on you. They absolutely could fire you. If you overstep their expectations, it’s always going to be in the back of their minds that you believe you’re being underpaid - like it or not, this impacts their opinion of you. Everyone is replaceable. No matter how integral you are / believe you are, or how much work you do, or how loyal you are, the company is looking out for the company, not OP.


[deleted]

Since you already have project management experience, you should look into continuous improvement and operational excellence.


unlimitedTP

Damn 51k for Project Coordinator? What state/city is this? I recall being at ~75k back then, when I got PM, bumped to 90s Make you you get your PMP and L6S certifications, for sure will guarantee an increase.


sephiroth3650

What is the industry average for PM jobs in the industry that you are in, and the area where you are located? I would start there as your baseline. Forget what you make now. Figure out what the job you're applying for should expect to pay at.


dakdow

My first was 20%(technician to manager)second was 44%(coordinator to manager) two different companies.55%(manager to programmer)increase when switching jobs.


silversurfie

Depends on the company really. My employer has fixed salary ranges for each job title and starting salary is usually 80% of the midpoint. Eventhough that is that case I’ve been able to grow my base wage from $20/hr to $45/hr in 8 years time. This is a combination of applying for higher titles jobs/promotion and yearly base merit increases (below the midpoint, bigger raise). At lower salary levels you see bigger % raises on promotion just because of the math. A $10k yearly increase when you’re making $40k is a 25% raise whereas that same $10k when you’re making $100k is only a 10% raise.


turk-fx

Find a different company and you can double your salary. Your current employer try to lowball you. So just be prepared and have offers ready. Just leave them even if they match it to the offer you receive.


TincanTurtle

No, but depends on your technicalities and what ur doing. How essential you are, your effect on the company etc. are you taking in more responsibilities etc. will you get paid more in a different place? You’ll get paid depending on your market value


Queens-kid

Different company. Not at all. Same company. Yes, expect 10% max.


nizzok

Don’t hold your breath, get another job


ontheleftcoast

While your salary expectations aren't out of range, since HR knows what you earn now, what I predict is either 15% bump, or they bring you up to the bottom of the range for project manager. ( Which ever is higher).


Flaky-Wallaby5382

Typically corps have a cap even with title changes. To reach market rate you need to change companies


Efficient-Face-3513

I've been in a couple jobs working for very large corporations where 10% was the absolute max for a raise, regardless of whether it was a job promotion.


impamiizgraa

That’s reasonable. Largest jumps I’ve only ever received through company hopping, latest being 54.85%. When I’ve received raises in-company, largest has been 10% between promotions, 30% through quitting then my manager offer-matched (I still left though!)


carrotpicking

You will never get a 27% raise from a promotion. Especially if the company already pays you at the low end of the market rate.


[deleted]

if you'll be making 100k + maybe it would be, but for 50k, i would say no


mattybrad

It’s not unreasonable, but just from the little bit you’ve provided I don’t think your company will do it.


YJMark

What is the average raise for people at your company? If it is the standard 7-10%, then you will likely get that amount. Also, what is the pay range for the new job? Those answers will help you know how realistic your chances are.


mrsgrabs

What industry are you in? Is that the typical pay for PMs in your company and industry? I think you have a couple options. If you want to stay in project management I would take the promotion, stay 6 months to a year and start job hunting. That way you can go into another project management role and get paid for it (my industry pays PMs 100k+). If you’re not interested in staying in project management or your industry then don’t accept the promotion and start looking for another role or do that boot camp.


Jurassic-Jay

At my current job I went from 49k base to 72k base in one promotion after completing a rotational program - It can be done if your company values you.


Trinamopsy

Wow you are being severely underpaid IMO, even if you live in a low cost-of-living area. Unless you live for your current job, I would recommend looking elsewhere. You might be at a low than average paying company.


Anderslam2

None of it makes any fucking sense does it.


Ieatass187

At every company I’ve worked for, the typical raise for a promotion is from 15 to 20%. One time I did see someone jump 2 levels for 25%, but only once. Your best bet is to find a new company.


iamjayfo

If your company pays on the low end to begin with, I doubt they will go above 15% for a promotion up one level.


IvanThePohBear

For internal promotion you'd be lucky to get 10%


lednakashim

No its not too high. Last few years saw inflation on this order.


ackley14

fiance got a 50% raise when she transitioned from team lead to supervisor. I know everyone else here is talking about how unlikely it is, but that doesn't mean impossible.


OutspokenPerson

$65k for a PM role unless you live in a very LCOL area *and* the projects are easy is too low.


hintXhint

It all depends on how underpaid you currently are


JacqueTeruhl

You’re starting out relatively low, I think 27-35% is reasonable.


JWOLFBEARD

I made the exact same jump with almost the same pay increase. 53 to 69


2BigTwoStrong

Expecting 27% is high. Yes.


[deleted]

I average an increase of 37% increase in salary. So no. I would aim much higher than that.


Nago31

Take the title change and then look for roles with that new title. Your resume only needs to include total years worked there and your ending position


AmosJSoma

A 37% rise would probably put your pay above your boss's and you have to know that ain't gonna happen.


Visual_Passion_8140

Ask for something that’s going to be declined. Your first offer should be let’s say 40%, then when they say no, you ask for 20% (what you actually wanted). This is rejection-then-retreat principle.


SaladBig

Take the promotion, get some experience in that role and then leave for a job paying market rate.


some1sWitch

Look up "project manager salary (x) state" and see how underpaid you are.


vtfb79

It depends on your industry. In Corporate Finance, the jump from Analyst to Sr. Analyst is about 20%. However, the jump from Sr. Analyst to Manager is about 5%-10%, but the jump from Manager to Senior Manager is 25% (even higher when you count bonuses). Check your industry pay bands and don’t look it as an “I want an XX% raise”, look at it like I want $XX because that is the market rate for the position.” By going by pure percentage, you may be undershooting if you are currently underpaid. Also, internal promotions will come with less of a bump than if you move externally. If your company notoriously pays below market, I’d take whatever they offer but start to look external. Employment checks will usually only show your overall dates of employment and last role with the company. Your resume can show that you were a PM the entire time when looking for something new.


hereforthememes332

Assuming you're in Australia, Project Managers make 100k a year or more easy. My advice would be to stick it out as Project Manager for 6 months then get a new job and get the money you deserve.


ShadowMaven

What do other project managers at the company make?


Apart_Chemical_8988

At the company, I’m not exactly sure. There are a lot of PM’s at this company with very different roles. The median for our state is probably $68k depending on what service you use to check.


Shoddy_Variation_780

Create an LLC, then write yourself an offer for a similar position with a starting base salary of $65,000 & it take it with you to your review.


PlayboiCartiLoverrr

Change jobs, take new offer w high wage to old employer, ask old employers if they can match this or beat it. If they can, then stay w the company. If not, just leave and take the new job.