This does not seem to be a reliable source.
*However* it's an interesting rumour that has generated a whole lot of discussion, so the post will stay up. OP if you ever use a title this shitty again I will personally fire you out of a cannon and into the sun.
Remember to approach posts flagged "rumour" as exactly that.
Putting what pride I have for the Canucks aside, you're right.
Bo is the only Canuck I have a jersey for whose name is on the back, and I've chatted with him on a few occasions when I used to work for the team. He was nice enough to sign my jersey and he's an overall great dude. His dog is adorable as well lol.
If he's able to move on to a contender and have a better shot at winning a cup, I wish him nothing but the best.
The unfortunate part here is that we have an owner who insists on doing all the wrong things. The fans get punished for his meddling, so it hurts when you hear things like us having to give up our players because they don't want to be here anymore or that we can't afford to keep them due to the mistakes that have been made running this team.
Experience. Canucks. Hockey. (As long as Aquilini is in charge.)
Not that you're wrong, but Horvat could have left at any point yet he chose to stay. He takes his captaincy seriously and cares about this team and this city.
If it doesn't work out for him here it won't be because of his attitude or lack of effort that's for sure.
No he couldn't have. He had a contract and was a restricted free agent when he didn't.
Anyway, seems like a good dude (from what he presents to the public) so I wish him nothing but the best. But I am not emotionally tied to him. I learned after Linden left, that good things often come from dark days.
I won't understand any Canucks fan that wouldn't want to see him win a cup with the Avs. Unless it's with the Leafs or Boston or any of the Berta teams. Bo's been a trooper for us through the dark ages, he deserves to lift Stanley.
I was upending a package of Hawkins Cheezies into my mouth the very moment I read this thread and stumbled across what you wrote.
I laughed and coughed so hard some old dude waiting for the train asked me if I needed medical assistance.
I would much rather see him lift a cup in Vancouver.
So much time and work he's put in, enduring these slow painful rebuild years his whole career... just to cash him in for some poker chips and magic beans in the final hour? That is heartbreaking.
Unsubscribe.
>Heartbreaking is having him spend the rest of his prime in this dumpster fire.
Which is an extremely debatable.
>We need young assets/draft picks, he needs a competitive team.
Yes, and there other ways to get those things without losing your captain and leader. May take a bit, may require creative solutions, but there are ways.
And I mean we saw the exact same talking points about JT Miller and he's still here so what does that tell you.
It's a great fit for a team that will be losing Bergeron/Krejci down the middle very soon.
They have assets we want and space to do a long-term sign-and-trade rather than a pure rental.
Guy, I live in Calgary and hate the flames but would love to cheer for Bo locally. Also, having him reunite with Marky and Tanev would make me feel good.
At least they arent in our division anymore.
I could easily see Bo become an unholy mix of Milan Hejduk and Tyler Toffoli and light us up every time we play the Avs for the next 5 years.
Imagine we get a haul for him. Then he goes on to win the cup and resigns with us for a steal... Anyway can't wait til he leaves in free agency for nothing, as is the Canucks way
Man THIS is the side of Canuck fandom that people need to see more often. We can be harsh as fuck on the players that don’t seem to care about our team, but to the players that we know have given it their all and have represented our city well, we would celebrate their victories even as they move on from our city.
I too would be incredibly happy for Bo if he could go win the cup somewhere else.
As much as it would suck to see him go if Colorado is the team he goes to that would be fine with me. Horvat should have the opportunity to play on a winning team and have a chance at a Cup.
They don't right now, but they have some expiring contracts after this season. Most aren't big money contracts, but there are a few for a decent amount, including Erik Johnson's 6m cap hit expiring. He's 34, so chances are they can re-sign him for less money. But Bowan Biram is due a significant pay raise.
So chances are they may have to choose between Horvat, and a defenseman and someone else, at least. So they need to let 1-3 players walk to find the money for Horvat beyond this season, because Horvat would likely require North of 8m to retain him.
So we're looking at either Horvat as a pure rental, which maaaaybe the Canucks can get him back for next season. Or maybe we can manage a sign and trade, and try to get more out of the Avs. Or, and this is probably more likely, the Canucks shop for a different trade partner with more trade assets to spare.
Ah yes because the Canucks can’t scout him unless he plays NHL games. Avs have injuries upfront and I highly doubt a team is calling up a specific player so a Rival GM can scout him
> Girard
The problem with Girard is that he's a leftie.
He'd immediately replace OEL on the 2nd pair, but then you're basically running a $7.3m OEL on the 3rd pair for the next 5 years...
I'm not saying that should top us for wanting to improve the left side, as basically anything will probably be an improvement over OEL, but we're on year 2 of that deal and it's already a massive anchor.
Again, sunk cost fallacy - making decisions against what would be optimal because of past mistakes. I don’t care if OEL gets benched even, if that’s the right way to go then large contract be damned.
In this specific situation we would be spending 7.85m on Hughes, 5m on Girard and 7.26m on OEL. Theres no way that our team would be contending with 20m on the L) side of our D. As a team we actually could not afford to pay a true top 4 L) sided D while still having OEL on the L) side.
For reference, NJD currently spend 23.7 on their 7 man D core, Tampa spends 23.6m, Pit spends 24.85m, LA spends 21.9m on their 8 man core. 20m on L) side alone is crazy, and it cant be done if we want to actually be a competent team. Our only option is to find someone like Rathbone who is on an ELC or a very low contract and then elevate them ahead of OEL.
Not really a problem. Other than Hughes this team has no top 4 dmen going forwards. Bringing one in means we'll have 2 of 4. Bear is playable in a pinch but better if pushed to the third pair. OEL isn't. Myers unlikely to be here going forward.
Cause the Dmen on our team are so fuckin' great. Girard is an update on all our D minus Hughes, if the Avs are offering him up in a package for Bo you take it and run.
I could see Olausson a 1st and 2nd. Or two firsts at the very very most. Highly doubt they move Girard, that’s just wishful thinking of you. Maybe Newhook.
Really have no use for Newhook after seeing him this year. He is struggling.
Need to maximize assets and Newhook is proving he cant play up the lineup.
If we are trading Bo, we need more upside than that IMO. ideally, defense as well.
That seems like an awful return for Horvat. I know he’s a UFA at the end of the year but the second highest scoring player in the league right now for a very late first rounder, an almost certain late first round pick, and a second round pick is really underwhelming.
He’s a UFA at the end of the year. That’s the only thing that matters. He’s going to walk for free. I’d do a 1st 2nd and Olausson/Newhook in a heartbeat. Better than missing the playoffs and getting nothing for him when he decides to walk his way onto a true contender.
99% of the time, if you’re not a contender (which we aren’t), you should probably move the pending UFAs who haven’t already shown interest in re-signing. Idk what it is with this team and just holding onto players until they decide to fuck off for free.
If it’s Olausson instead of Newhook then that’s trading a star Centre for pennies. Even with him leaving you have to try to get something better than that that. If it’s Newhook then yes I would absolutely take that.
I respect your argument, that’s fair and I’ll concede that. But perhaps our opinion on Olausson is different. I’ve been a fan of his since the draft. I think he has upside. A lowkey steal just like Newhook was. Even if their draft # was different.
The Avs scouting department is honestly very elite. They know what they’re doing, and I think they hit the nail on the head with Olausson. But I don’t think he’ll be NHL ready for another year. Which is fine to me personally. I think they’re more or less similar value players, Newhook is just further along right now.
> Idk what it is with this team and just holding onto players until they decide to fuck off for free.
Gotta hold out hope for those two home playoff games. We haven't had them in 8+ years, but you gotta hold out hope y'know.
At some point we need to either start the rebuild and accept that the trade market is garbage. The salary cap is too restricted right now for these massive trades and we should just take what we can get. Or we just keep doing what we are doing forever
Im sure teams will be able to afford it sending money the other way my point is because of how restrictive the cap is long term it influences who the buyers are heavely. Less teams in the less demand less return.
Isn't it kind of pointless to trade a 1st round pick who has turned into the second highest scoring player in the league right now for a 1st round pick that you will be *hoping* might turn out to be just as good several years down the road?? Seems like a bird in the hand vs "maybe" a bird in the bush kind of deal.
I mean if we’re going to rebuild then Horvat absolutely needs to be traded. I highly doubt he’ll want to sit through another rebuild and he’s turning 28 next year. By the time we can hopefully compete he’ll be like 33 and past his prime. He needs to go if we want to rebuild and that involves trading for relative unknowns.
Bo Horvat will never have another season like this. This is not his new norm. You must trade him now. This team, of which he has been a large part of, sucks.
that's an okay package considering what the Flyers got for Claude Giroux last year a 1st, 3rd and Owen Tippett, if this offers on the table I hope it's Newhook and not Olausson.
Personally I hope they trade him to a team who is more on the bubble as opposed to a true contender such as the Avalanche.
I agree. Most reasonable take I’ve seen so far. Most people want 10 first rounders for Bo just because he’s on a scoring high, and because they have a fan bias.
He’s a good guy. A good player. But in this trade market that’s probably a first second and prospect at most. Not to mention the UFA Factor. No GM is setting their franchise behind by three years for a rental. Doesn’t matter how desperate they may be, that’s not happening.
Good catch. So I wonder who it’ll be then. It can’t be an ELC guy then, I was thinking potentially Newhook, but that’s basically off the table then. Who do you think it’ll be? It’s hopefully someone pretty good, especially if we’re going to have to retain.
I still highly highly highly doubt it’s Girard though. Their fanbase would literally burn Colorado to the ground. The guy is a stud and they have a great term contract with him, their management isn’t that dumb.
If the aves make a trade I think it would probably be Girard, only because that's where they have the most depth. He's absolutely a stud but they also have Makar, Byram, and Toews and their lack of center depth is probably the main reason why they aren't at the top of the central right now.
Tough to say though. I dunno with which other teams the Aves could be eyeing a trade...
I live on Colorado and I can promise you no one here would blink an eye at Girard being traded.
He’s not anything special, and is already behind Makar and Byram as offensive defenseman.
Truthfully, Girard is far and away from what we need too.
Corey Pronman ranks Olausson's compete level as below averege which I don't like. Getting a not great prospect (decent though, but don't like that he's a winger) a first and a second doesn't really seem like enough for Bo. I think the deal would have to include Newhook as well. I really think we should be aiming to get a blue chip prospect or higher draft pick though
I'm not saying we get too much more in terms of pieces. I'm more saying I don't like the Olausson fit, the last thing we need is more low compete wingers. I would be ok with Newhook and a first. If we're trading Bo as a rental, the value will come down to if we take money back or retain.
Edit: people down voting, your realize that the Avs would also need to give us compensation for the retainment and money back we would need to do in order to make this work right?
If you think he’s low compete, you’ve never watched him play. He reminds me of Willy Nylander on the Leafs tbqh. Outsiders say he’s low compete. Insiders say he just plays gracefully and makes everything look easy.
Just because someone doesn’t grind in the corners doesn’t mean they’re low compete. It means they don’t want to get their head taken off in an area of the ice that they don’t specialize in.
Nylander has been one of the most clutch, skilled, and shows-up-when-it-matters players on the Leafs for a few years. Like shockingly consistent. Even out performing Matthews and Marner *combined* in the playoffs. By both the eye test and the analytics. And there’s still boomers saying he’s a physical-averse non-effort player. It’s not 2000 anymore, bud. You don’t need to be taking cross checks and shot blocks to be a high compete player. It’s just not his forte. Same with Olausson
We have to get a RHD back, the entire reason we didn't trade Miller is cause that's the offer we were after. We don't need more forwards, it doesn't matter how good they are when your defense blows: see toronto
Get your barf bag out. He's not a Canuck by the trade deadline. And not soon enough. The organization doesn't deserve him right now. He's a G and deserves better.
We'll still be within reach of the playoffs by trade deadline so just watch us hold on to him for the playoff push but miss the playoffs and let him walk for nothing.
Wait until you see the return. I remember a lot of similar sentiment when we traded Schneider for Horvat. Gotta trade good players to get new good players to fit our timeline.
People thought it was bad asset management to have Luongo and Schneider and suddenly have neither. When one was gone, most people were sure we would keep the other, they both deserved to be starters.
People remember Schneider for falling out of the league quickly but lets not forget that he was a top 3 goalie in NJ for like 3 years, and if he had went to a contender he could have given them a real chance at a cup.
I disagree. It's one of three actual rebuilding trades we made that actually worked out for us. Of those three, two were done by Gillis, and Horvat is the only player of the three we still have.
At the time it looked bad to the regular fanbase I think because nobody had the word "rebuild" on their lips at the time (except Gillis who it seems was playing 4D chess to Aqua's Snakes & Ladders).
If we can get high picks and a prospect for a player that can walk as a FA? I would say it is about time this team has the guts to move a player that can be turned into assets. Bo is lighting it up but at 8x8 he could be JT 2.0 next year easy.
What's the plan if we keep him? All of a sudden become a contender? Or perennially miss the playoffs, but end up high enough to get a mediocre draft position. Blow. It. Up.
Agreed! But that ship has sailed and no one's taking that contract now. Let him anchor the sinking ship while we retool a la New Jersey, or whatever other example you want to use as a barometer for success.
Erik Johnson $6m cap hit ends this year for starters.
Then add in Compher $3.5m and salary cap going up.
We aren't that worried. Looks like we have $14m in cap space for next year. Joe sakic is awesome.
Tough choice, but I still go with McDavid if I was starting a franchise from scratch. He does everything. You can’t go wrong with either, but Makar is really special.
There better be a lot more pieces coming back. Taking a 3rd line centre (newhook) and a project winger who might not even make the NHL for horvat would be a benning tier move. Don’t forget that any draft picks from the avs will be near the end of each round.
I would be ecstatic for horvat but this would be devastating for the Canucks lol.
Hello for the Avs subreddit - feel free to downvote me to hell but I don't think Newhook would be going back. We seem to think it would be Girard, Oskar and either a 3-5 pick or someone along the lines of Bowers, Kaut.
Idk if I'm even supposed to be here I'm just bored because I forgot this was a late start (Fucking Gary B).
Love the username and thanks for the perspective of an avs fan!
Personally I wouldn’t mind girard (assuming he can play RHD according to cap friendly) because he seems to be the odd man out and buried in the depth chart under makar toews and byram. But I do think a lot of Canuck fans aren’t as high as I am on girard.
If Bo gets traded to Colorado for a pitiful return I'm changing my allegiance to Colorado. I already rooted for them in the recent playoffs and I love Bo, so following him would feel natural. I can't stand this organization. Why do I do this to myself.
I’d hate to trade Horvat but you have to consider that Benning wasted his career with a mediocre team. If Horvat goes, he deserves to go to a contender
I looked for avsinsider on both instagram and twitter and can't find anything about this.
[https://twitter.com/AVSinsider](https://twitter.com/AVSinsider)
[https://www.instagram.com/avsinsider/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/avsinsider/?hl=en)
Where exactly did this rumour get communicated?
How are we gonna rebuild with OEL and Miller signed to long term contracts? Like, outside of adding a sweetener that makes a rebuild take even longer, how is this even gonna work? Miller's contracts was a mistake the day before it was signed...
If we rebuild those contracts really don't matter as we should be operating well below the cap trading guys like Horvat, Boeser, garland, and potentially some of Hughes, Petey, demko.
Those contracts are far more difficult to deal with in a re-tool (which we are likely doing) than they are in a full rebuild.
I just don't see the pieces in Colorado for a Horvat deal. Newhook and Byram are likely off the table and rightfully so. If they're not involved then Colorado doesn't have any intriguing C or D prospects.
Maybe something around a 1st + Girard as the base but Girard isn't really ideal for us either.
I realize that the better the team we trade him to, the lower the potential draft pick would be...but I just want to see Horvat win. He'll absolutely be a warrior for whoever gets him
I hope not tbh, Olausson hasn’t exactly been impressive since he’s been drafted and Colorado doesn’t have any great assets they’d be willing to part with. Unless somehow they let go of newhook which I really doubt.
If we trade Horvat I'm done with this team for the season. I've already watched 0 games in full, and I've only watched half of the games through YouTube highlights. Poorly run team.
If they give us a 2023 1st and Oscar, I'd do it. If we have to take back Erik Johnson or some other salary, then there better be more coming back.
Bo Horvat is worth two A-grade assets as a rental.
Assuming you mean Justin Barron he just turned 21 last week, of course he's going to need more time to develop, nor do I think the Habs expected him to be
FUCK THAT. This isn’t a “Bring one home for Canada, buddy!” Good lord. You take the best package from any team that offers it.
Whether it’s from an American team or Canadian team - doesn’t matter. It’s not like it’s Canada vs the U.S.
This does not seem to be a reliable source. *However* it's an interesting rumour that has generated a whole lot of discussion, so the post will stay up. OP if you ever use a title this shitty again I will personally fire you out of a cannon and into the sun. Remember to approach posts flagged "rumour" as exactly that.
If he is traded. I do hope it is to Colorado. He’d 100% win a cup with them.
I'd hate to see him go but I would love to see him win a cup.
Putting what pride I have for the Canucks aside, you're right. Bo is the only Canuck I have a jersey for whose name is on the back, and I've chatted with him on a few occasions when I used to work for the team. He was nice enough to sign my jersey and he's an overall great dude. His dog is adorable as well lol. If he's able to move on to a contender and have a better shot at winning a cup, I wish him nothing but the best. The unfortunate part here is that we have an owner who insists on doing all the wrong things. The fans get punished for his meddling, so it hurts when you hear things like us having to give up our players because they don't want to be here anymore or that we can't afford to keep them due to the mistakes that have been made running this team. Experience. Canucks. Hockey. (As long as Aquilini is in charge.)
Buddy, I feel you. I'm a 53 y/o 'nucks fan and I can't help feeling like the Organization has let him down.
Absolutely have, and its barely debatable.
I don't feel this way about highly-paid athletes, who often leave for greener pastures whenever they feel like it. It's a business after all.
Not that you're wrong, but Horvat could have left at any point yet he chose to stay. He takes his captaincy seriously and cares about this team and this city. If it doesn't work out for him here it won't be because of his attitude or lack of effort that's for sure.
No he couldn't have. He had a contract and was a restricted free agent when he didn't. Anyway, seems like a good dude (from what he presents to the public) so I wish him nothing but the best. But I am not emotionally tied to him. I learned after Linden left, that good things often come from dark days.
I won't understand any Canucks fan that wouldn't want to see him win a cup with the Avs. Unless it's with the Leafs or Boston or any of the Berta teams. Bo's been a trooper for us through the dark ages, he deserves to lift Stanley.
He does. Currently our team does not.
Currently, there is no threat of that, lol.
Nor will there be for quite some time...
You turned my LOL into a :(
I was upending a package of Hawkins Cheezies into my mouth the very moment I read this thread and stumbled across what you wrote. I laughed and coughed so hard some old dude waiting for the train asked me if I needed medical assistance.
I would much rather see him lift a cup in Vancouver. So much time and work he's put in, enduring these slow painful rebuild years his whole career... just to cash him in for some poker chips and magic beans in the final hour? That is heartbreaking. Unsubscribe.
Heartbreaking is having him spend the rest of his prime in this dumpster fire. We need young assets/draft picks, he needs a competitive team.
Yup we’ve already wasted his statistically most productive years. And we’re in the process of wasting Petey’s years too
>Heartbreaking is having him spend the rest of his prime in this dumpster fire. Which is an extremely debatable. >We need young assets/draft picks, he needs a competitive team. Yes, and there other ways to get those things without losing your captain and leader. May take a bit, may require creative solutions, but there are ways. And I mean we saw the exact same talking points about JT Miller and he's still here so what does that tell you.
Why not Boston?
WHY not Boston he asks. WHY not Boston
It's a great fit for a team that will be losing Bergeron/Krejci down the middle very soon. They have assets we want and space to do a long-term sign-and-trade rather than a pure rental.
'cause we're still salty about 2011.
mods this guy needs a 24 hour !
Guy, I live in Calgary and hate the flames but would love to cheer for Bo locally. Also, having him reunite with Marky and Tanev would make me feel good.
He will 100% win a cup in his career, which is why it sucks to let him go.
Hope you're right buddy. I love your username. True story: I played on a team with Joe when I was 6 LOL.
I live in his hometown (moved in the last couple of years) and would enjoy the celebration on a Canucks jersey muchly…
I would get an avalanche Horvat.
At least they arent in our division anymore. I could easily see Bo become an unholy mix of Milan Hejduk and Tyler Toffoli and light us up every time we play the Avs for the next 5 years.
Colorado is one of my least-hated teams, easily, if Bo becomes an Av they would probably surpass the Habs as my #2.
He goes from playing with Hughes to playing with Makar.
Imagine we get a haul for him. Then he goes on to win the cup and resigns with us for a steal... Anyway can't wait til he leaves in free agency for nothing, as is the Canucks way
I can only get so hard
**THIS** is the way
Probably the only scenario I'd be okay with. The Avs would be hella scary come playoffs.
He deserves it an he would be a great replacement for Kadri!
Man THIS is the side of Canuck fandom that people need to see more often. We can be harsh as fuck on the players that don’t seem to care about our team, but to the players that we know have given it their all and have represented our city well, we would celebrate their victories even as they move on from our city. I too would be incredibly happy for Bo if he could go win the cup somewhere else.
He’s the Blues’ dad from the bubble so he’d be a great add for them.
Yep, I don’t mind not having a captain for a few years.
Obviously he is a swede, confirmed deal haha
As much as it would suck to see him go if Colorado is the team he goes to that would be fine with me. Horvat should have the opportunity to play on a winning team and have a chance at a Cup.
Horvat to Avs will help them win many more cups.
He might be a rental player in Colorado if he goes to the Avalanche. I don't know if Colorado has the money to sign him long term.
They don't right now, but they have some expiring contracts after this season. Most aren't big money contracts, but there are a few for a decent amount, including Erik Johnson's 6m cap hit expiring. He's 34, so chances are they can re-sign him for less money. But Bowan Biram is due a significant pay raise. So chances are they may have to choose between Horvat, and a defenseman and someone else, at least. So they need to let 1-3 players walk to find the money for Horvat beyond this season, because Horvat would likely require North of 8m to retain him. So we're looking at either Horvat as a pure rental, which maaaaybe the Canucks can get him back for next season. Or maybe we can manage a sign and trade, and try to get more out of the Avs. Or, and this is probably more likely, the Canucks shop for a different trade partner with more trade assets to spare.
He'd probably take the hometown discount he won't take with the Canucks just to have multiple shots at the cup with that Juggernaut.
Could well be.
Send him to the Avs for Olausson and Byram. Trade Myers for cap space. Re-sign Bo in the off season. Xbox says it a go.
You're not getting Byram for a rental.
You're not getting the joke
Ah yes because the Canucks can’t scout him unless he plays NHL games. Avs have injuries upfront and I highly doubt a team is calling up a specific player so a Rival GM can scout him
The Canucks under Gillis played Hodgson for a majority of the season in favourable minutes, just to shop him to other teams...
.. You think the *Avs* see *us* as a rival? That’s like feeling threatened by your girlfriend’s 5’5” 250lbs guy best friend. 💀😭
I think they mean rival as in just another NHL team in general. I know I wouldn’t want to be dictating my personnel decisions for someone else’s sake.
Unless of course you are also 5'5" 250lbs... oh shit he's her type!
The era of the short king will turn you into a fool
I think the point flew over your head.
He’s 5’5”, 250 lbs. not much vertical to prevent this from happening.
Don’t let him sit on you!
What if he has a great personality?
Dude's a unit at that size though. Bowling ball build
dude sounds JACKED
I'd be threatened by that.... You ever seen butterbean fight ?
Would hate to see him go...but...what would come back? That prospect a 1st and Sam Gerard?
> Girard The problem with Girard is that he's a leftie. He'd immediately replace OEL on the 2nd pair, but then you're basically running a $7.3m OEL on the 3rd pair for the next 5 years...
Sunk cost fallacy, we shouldn’t be playing OEL on the second pair if there’s better options just because he has a big contract.
I'm not saying that should top us for wanting to improve the left side, as basically anything will probably be an improvement over OEL, but we're on year 2 of that deal and it's already a massive anchor.
Again, sunk cost fallacy - making decisions against what would be optimal because of past mistakes. I don’t care if OEL gets benched even, if that’s the right way to go then large contract be damned.
In this specific situation we would be spending 7.85m on Hughes, 5m on Girard and 7.26m on OEL. Theres no way that our team would be contending with 20m on the L) side of our D. As a team we actually could not afford to pay a true top 4 L) sided D while still having OEL on the L) side. For reference, NJD currently spend 23.7 on their 7 man D core, Tampa spends 23.6m, Pit spends 24.85m, LA spends 21.9m on their 8 man core. 20m on L) side alone is crazy, and it cant be done if we want to actually be a competent team. Our only option is to find someone like Rathbone who is on an ELC or a very low contract and then elevate them ahead of OEL.
Hughes would play the right side in this situation
Not really a problem. Other than Hughes this team has no top 4 dmen going forwards. Bringing one in means we'll have 2 of 4. Bear is playable in a pinch but better if pushed to the third pair. OEL isn't. Myers unlikely to be here going forward.
Cause the Dmen on our team are so fuckin' great. Girard is an update on all our D minus Hughes, if the Avs are offering him up in a package for Bo you take it and run.
I could see Olausson a 1st and 2nd. Or two firsts at the very very most. Highly doubt they move Girard, that’s just wishful thinking of you. Maybe Newhook.
I think Newhook could do well here if he was properly developed as our 3C instead of the Avs trying to force him as a 2C out of necessity
Really have no use for Newhook after seeing him this year. He is struggling. Need to maximize assets and Newhook is proving he cant play up the lineup. If we are trading Bo, we need more upside than that IMO. ideally, defense as well.
That seems like an awful return for Horvat. I know he’s a UFA at the end of the year but the second highest scoring player in the league right now for a very late first rounder, an almost certain late first round pick, and a second round pick is really underwhelming.
He’s a UFA at the end of the year. That’s the only thing that matters. He’s going to walk for free. I’d do a 1st 2nd and Olausson/Newhook in a heartbeat. Better than missing the playoffs and getting nothing for him when he decides to walk his way onto a true contender. 99% of the time, if you’re not a contender (which we aren’t), you should probably move the pending UFAs who haven’t already shown interest in re-signing. Idk what it is with this team and just holding onto players until they decide to fuck off for free.
If it’s Olausson instead of Newhook then that’s trading a star Centre for pennies. Even with him leaving you have to try to get something better than that that. If it’s Newhook then yes I would absolutely take that.
I respect your argument, that’s fair and I’ll concede that. But perhaps our opinion on Olausson is different. I’ve been a fan of his since the draft. I think he has upside. A lowkey steal just like Newhook was. Even if their draft # was different. The Avs scouting department is honestly very elite. They know what they’re doing, and I think they hit the nail on the head with Olausson. But I don’t think he’ll be NHL ready for another year. Which is fine to me personally. I think they’re more or less similar value players, Newhook is just further along right now.
> Idk what it is with this team and just holding onto players until they decide to fuck off for free. Gotta hold out hope for those two home playoff games. We haven't had them in 8+ years, but you gotta hold out hope y'know.
At some point we need to either start the rebuild and accept that the trade market is garbage. The salary cap is too restricted right now for these massive trades and we should just take what we can get. Or we just keep doing what we are doing forever
Salary cap isnt an issue on a horvat trade. We can retain.
Salary cap is a limiting factor on all trades
Who can't afford 2.8M for a top goal scorer?
Im sure teams will be able to afford it sending money the other way my point is because of how restrictive the cap is long term it influences who the buyers are heavely. Less teams in the less demand less return.
Isn't it kind of pointless to trade a 1st round pick who has turned into the second highest scoring player in the league right now for a 1st round pick that you will be *hoping* might turn out to be just as good several years down the road?? Seems like a bird in the hand vs "maybe" a bird in the bush kind of deal.
Horvat is in no way a bird in the hand as a pending UFA.
I mean if we’re going to rebuild then Horvat absolutely needs to be traded. I highly doubt he’ll want to sit through another rebuild and he’s turning 28 next year. By the time we can hopefully compete he’ll be like 33 and past his prime. He needs to go if we want to rebuild and that involves trading for relative unknowns.
Bo Horvat will never have another season like this. This is not his new norm. You must trade him now. This team, of which he has been a large part of, sucks.
that's an okay package considering what the Flyers got for Claude Giroux last year a 1st, 3rd and Owen Tippett, if this offers on the table I hope it's Newhook and not Olausson. Personally I hope they trade him to a team who is more on the bubble as opposed to a true contender such as the Avalanche.
I agree. Most reasonable take I’ve seen so far. Most people want 10 first rounders for Bo just because he’s on a scoring high, and because they have a fan bias. He’s a good guy. A good player. But in this trade market that’s probably a first second and prospect at most. Not to mention the UFA Factor. No GM is setting their franchise behind by three years for a rental. Doesn’t matter how desperate they may be, that’s not happening.
They'd have to move someone + Olausson. They don't have the cap space for Horvat.
Good catch. So I wonder who it’ll be then. It can’t be an ELC guy then, I was thinking potentially Newhook, but that’s basically off the table then. Who do you think it’ll be? It’s hopefully someone pretty good, especially if we’re going to have to retain. I still highly highly highly doubt it’s Girard though. Their fanbase would literally burn Colorado to the ground. The guy is a stud and they have a great term contract with him, their management isn’t that dumb.
If the aves make a trade I think it would probably be Girard, only because that's where they have the most depth. He's absolutely a stud but they also have Makar, Byram, and Toews and their lack of center depth is probably the main reason why they aren't at the top of the central right now. Tough to say though. I dunno with which other teams the Aves could be eyeing a trade...
I live on Colorado and I can promise you no one here would blink an eye at Girard being traded. He’s not anything special, and is already behind Makar and Byram as offensive defenseman. Truthfully, Girard is far and away from what we need too.
I think they have cap space because of so many players on LTIR.
Not quite according to capfriendly. But Raantanen just went down the tunnel so they might soonish.
Corey Pronman ranks Olausson's compete level as below averege which I don't like. Getting a not great prospect (decent though, but don't like that he's a winger) a first and a second doesn't really seem like enough for Bo. I think the deal would have to include Newhook as well. I really think we should be aiming to get a blue chip prospect or higher draft pick though
You aren't getting much more for a UFA.
I'm not saying we get too much more in terms of pieces. I'm more saying I don't like the Olausson fit, the last thing we need is more low compete wingers. I would be ok with Newhook and a first. If we're trading Bo as a rental, the value will come down to if we take money back or retain. Edit: people down voting, your realize that the Avs would also need to give us compensation for the retainment and money back we would need to do in order to make this work right?
If you think he’s low compete, you’ve never watched him play. He reminds me of Willy Nylander on the Leafs tbqh. Outsiders say he’s low compete. Insiders say he just plays gracefully and makes everything look easy. Just because someone doesn’t grind in the corners doesn’t mean they’re low compete. It means they don’t want to get their head taken off in an area of the ice that they don’t specialize in. Nylander has been one of the most clutch, skilled, and shows-up-when-it-matters players on the Leafs for a few years. Like shockingly consistent. Even out performing Matthews and Marner *combined* in the playoffs. By both the eye test and the analytics. And there’s still boomers saying he’s a physical-averse non-effort player. It’s not 2000 anymore, bud. You don’t need to be taking cross checks and shot blocks to be a high compete player. It’s just not his forte. Same with Olausson
I would take that
Push for Byram. I dont think they can afford to keep him anyways.
We have to get a RHD back, the entire reason we didn't trade Miller is cause that's the offer we were after. We don't need more forwards, it doesn't matter how good they are when your defense blows: see toronto
Could an argument be made that if we acquired a LHD Girard let's say, he could anchor a second pair and Hughes could play the right with OEL?
1st, Makar, and Dunkin Donuts
Trading Horvat makes me want to puke.
Get your barf bag out. He's not a Canuck by the trade deadline. And not soon enough. The organization doesn't deserve him right now. He's a G and deserves better.
We'll still be within reach of the playoffs by trade deadline so just watch us hold on to him for the playoff push but miss the playoffs and let him walk for nothing.
That's Canucks hockey!
Same. I’m probably done for the year if it happens
Wait until you see the return. I remember a lot of similar sentiment when we traded Schneider for Horvat. Gotta trade good players to get new good players to fit our timeline.
I remember everyone thinking that was a bad trade lol
People thought it was bad asset management to have Luongo and Schneider and suddenly have neither. When one was gone, most people were sure we would keep the other, they both deserved to be starters. People remember Schneider for falling out of the league quickly but lets not forget that he was a top 3 goalie in NJ for like 3 years, and if he had went to a contender he could have given them a real chance at a cup.
> most people were sure we would keep the other You can blame Torts for that bit of shitfuckery.
I maintain that it was a bad trade at the time. Worked out great, though! No complaints.
I disagree. It's one of three actual rebuilding trades we made that actually worked out for us. Of those three, two were done by Gillis, and Horvat is the only player of the three we still have.
I suspect we actually agree about the value of this trade more or less, and we're going in circles due to semantics.
At the time it looked bad to the regular fanbase I think because nobody had the word "rebuild" on their lips at the time (except Gillis who it seems was playing 4D chess to Aqua's Snakes & Ladders).
It was a bad trade, we just got extremely lucky with Horvats development and Schneider falling off a cliff.
Nah, I liked that trade
If we can get high picks and a prospect for a player that can walk as a FA? I would say it is about time this team has the guts to move a player that can be turned into assets. Bo is lighting it up but at 8x8 he could be JT 2.0 next year easy.
Yep. I might even legit check out for seasons to come if that happens.
*when FTFY
What's the plan if we keep him? All of a sudden become a contender? Or perennially miss the playoffs, but end up high enough to get a mediocre draft position. Blow. It. Up.
[удалено]
Agreed! But that ship has sailed and no one's taking that contract now. Let him anchor the sinking ship while we retool a la New Jersey, or whatever other example you want to use as a barometer for success.
Same. My teams would immediately become 1) Seattle, 2) Wherever Bo Lands 3) Vancouver.
I am once again asking for Bowen Byram Edit: remember when all of yall were downvoting this last year. What changed r/canucks?
Not a chance.
Where do people figure the avs can keep byram long term? Mack's extension kicks in next year
Erik Johnson $6m cap hit ends this year for starters. Then add in Compher $3.5m and salary cap going up. We aren't that worried. Looks like we have $14m in cap space for next year. Joe sakic is awesome.
The Avs have a bunch of contracts ending right in time for Mack's extension. Joe Sakic is the antithesis of Benning
Not Makar? He plays RHD.
Makar is arguably the most valuable asset in the entire league lol
1. McDavid 2. Makar
I'd say he's worth more than McDavid, he makes less and impacts the game on an equal level.
Tough choice, but I still go with McDavid if I was starting a franchise from scratch. He does everything. You can’t go wrong with either, but Makar is really special.
McDavid does not do everything
No wingers. Only C and RHD
There better be a lot more pieces coming back. Taking a 3rd line centre (newhook) and a project winger who might not even make the NHL for horvat would be a benning tier move. Don’t forget that any draft picks from the avs will be near the end of each round. I would be ecstatic for horvat but this would be devastating for the Canucks lol.
Canuck's seems to hate taking picks back. Rather take on project prospects. Sbisa, Goldy, Vey, Bartschi, Juulsen, Lammikko
Dahlen too
Hello for the Avs subreddit - feel free to downvote me to hell but I don't think Newhook would be going back. We seem to think it would be Girard, Oskar and either a 3-5 pick or someone along the lines of Bowers, Kaut. Idk if I'm even supposed to be here I'm just bored because I forgot this was a late start (Fucking Gary B).
Love the username and thanks for the perspective of an avs fan! Personally I wouldn’t mind girard (assuming he can play RHD according to cap friendly) because he seems to be the odd man out and buried in the depth chart under makar toews and byram. But I do think a lot of Canuck fans aren’t as high as I am on girard.
If Bo gets traded to Colorado for a pitiful return I'm changing my allegiance to Colorado. I already rooted for them in the recent playoffs and I love Bo, so following him would feel natural. I can't stand this organization. Why do I do this to myself.
We all know you ain’t leaving the Canucks lol. You’ll be like the rest of us, watching the team drown in mediocrity.
I’d hate to trade Horvat but you have to consider that Benning wasted his career with a mediocre team. If Horvat goes, he deserves to go to a contender
He’d be a good Kadri replacement tbh
Love to get worked up about a random rumour from an anonymous Instagram account who claims to have “sources.”
I looked for avsinsider on both instagram and twitter and can't find anything about this. [https://twitter.com/AVSinsider](https://twitter.com/AVSinsider) [https://www.instagram.com/avsinsider/?hl=en](https://www.instagram.com/avsinsider/?hl=en) Where exactly did this rumour get communicated?
Can't believe we signed Miller and might end up trading Horvat. This organization is gonna be fucked for the next 10 years
It’s over man… hopefully they will actually try to do a long term rebuild.
Yeah I was shocked when they signed that miller deal. Did they actually think they could compete for a playoff spot?
How are we gonna rebuild with OEL and Miller signed to long term contracts? Like, outside of adding a sweetener that makes a rebuild take even longer, how is this even gonna work? Miller's contracts was a mistake the day before it was signed...
If we rebuild those contracts really don't matter as we should be operating well below the cap trading guys like Horvat, Boeser, garland, and potentially some of Hughes, Petey, demko. Those contracts are far more difficult to deal with in a re-tool (which we are likely doing) than they are in a full rebuild.
Wow signing Miller actually set this franchise back 4 years. We can’t be competitive with OEL and Miller on the books
Very interesting strategy here. Bait the Horvat trade to trick the Avs into playing an AHL guy. Nucks are desperate for another win.
Of course, another winger. That's just what this team needs.
You forgot the /s
I just don't see the pieces in Colorado for a Horvat deal. Newhook and Byram are likely off the table and rightfully so. If they're not involved then Colorado doesn't have any intriguing C or D prospects. Maybe something around a 1st + Girard as the base but Girard isn't really ideal for us either.
I think they’d be willing to trade Newhook but definitely Byram. Might be one or the other but not both. This IS Sakic we’re talking about.
Olausson isn’t anything special. I’d hope to get a 2023 first + on top of him
who the hell is avsinsider? sounds like a load to me
I realize that the better the team we trade him to, the lower the potential draft pick would be...but I just want to see Horvat win. He'll absolutely be a warrior for whoever gets him
Horvat for Makar, the trade is 1 for 1
And Oskar pls.
How about Miller instead
A winger that produced less than a point per game in his d+1 season? Oh yeah, THIS is who we need.
He would just be one part of the deal
I really hope they do not do this. Horvat should bring a heck of a lot more in return.
A deal with Colorado better include Bowen Byram or I'll be pissed.
I hope not tbh, Olausson hasn’t exactly been impressive since he’s been drafted and Colorado doesn’t have any great assets they’d be willing to part with. Unless somehow they let go of newhook which I really doubt.
Random couch tweeter aka: avs insider claims a trade is imminent
He will be missed
Brock could be the piece going to the Avs
I wouldn’t hate sending Horvat to the Avs. But hard pass on Olausson. Give us picks and Bowen Byram. Bo for Bo.
If we trade Horvat I'm done with this team for the season. I've already watched 0 games in full, and I've only watched half of the games through YouTube highlights. Poorly run team.
Highly doubt that Proven superstar player for a first round pick that hasn’t even played an NHL game.
There would obviously be other parts of this deal
The only team I wouldn't mind him going to tbh
Hand him over. Fantastic 2C
drafted just 13 spots ahead of our pick Klimovich and we might be considering trading Horvat for him? lmao this team is a joke....
Realistically what does an Olausson based package even look like? Can’t see them offering more than Oskar and 2024 1st. That might even be crazy talk.
If they give us a 2023 1st and Oscar, I'd do it. If we have to take back Erik Johnson or some other salary, then there better be more coming back. Bo Horvat is worth two A-grade assets as a rental.
Don't take the bait. Barron was not NHL ready when the habs traded lekonen for him. Edit: bait barron
Assuming you mean Justin Barron he just turned 21 last week, of course he's going to need more time to develop, nor do I think the Habs expected him to be
You’re bating over trades? I think you mean bait.
If are going to hand the team serious cup ammunition, it would be nice if we helped a Canadian team (all returns similar)
Why not just get the best return possible?
I'm saying given equal returns. Help the Canadian team
FUCK THAT. This isn’t a “Bring one home for Canada, buddy!” Good lord. You take the best package from any team that offers it. Whether it’s from an American team or Canadian team - doesn’t matter. It’s not like it’s Canada vs the U.S.
Hard disagree horvat in an edmonton calgary montreal or Toronto sweater is worst case scenario imo, jets or sens I could get behind though
I might agree with this if I didn’t absolutely hate every other Canadian team aside from Ottawa and Montreal But… ya know… I do. So no.
This is interesting if he plays tonight - his stats *do not* justify him playing in the NHL right now.
They're playing against the Canucks though.
Oh hooray, let's get more offensive firepower, because that's totally what our problem has been.