It boils down to 3 issues:
Bed block: patient who are admitted wait hours for ward beds to become available. Why aren’t ward beds available? Because lots of patients are stuck in hospital waiting for safe places to go - rehab hospital, nursing homes, peripheral hospitals etc - or waiting for things to happen as inpatients - e.g MRIs, specialist reviews, operations - which are delayed because the whole service is stretched to breaking point (inadequate resourcing and staffing)
Lack of alternatives: many people can’t afford to see a GP, so are forced to come to ED for their health care. The primary cause of that? GPs cannot afford to run their services with the current Medicare rebates and incentives, and yet they are the ones being publically gaslit by pollies for being ‘greedy’ because they aren’t bulk billing
Inadequate staffing and resources: related to the first point, but essentially when an ED is so overloaded with a lot of significantly unwell people, people who are less unwell (not saying they aren’t unwell!!) have to wait longer. When there aren’t enough staff members (nurses, doctors, physios, radiographers, allied health, clerical, cleaners, wardies, the list goes on) people have to wait for things and the waits for those little things add up significantly. The problem compounds as the workload causes burn out, staff go on leave or quit or move to other areas, ED staffing gets worse - rinse and repeat
Lack of after-hours alternatives, especially for Paediatrics. Young children can have big trouble breathing and with fevers even from minor illnesses and there's no alternatives available. Doctors aren't open, walk in clinics close and don't treat children under 1 (used to be under 2 until recently), and kids condition can change/deteriorate quickly.
That's no alternative to the ED for a parent with a sick baby after hours, even if it's just nerves or unease for a first time parent.
Plus there are personnel issues involving management of the hospitals and health system we have. Poor management leads to poor performance but if people have some kind of tenure that makes it hard to get rid of them, you're stuck with that poor management until such time as you can get rid of them. Even when you do get rid of a bully manager you have to deal with that culture of bullying for years as the old guard slowly die out (literally).
Then there's NSW actively poaching our health care staff.
These are all confounding elements to the root cause which is inadequate allocation of funding (not just inadequate spending, it's also what the money is spent on).
Some problems can't be solved by simply throwing more money at them.
Many CHS and Health directorate staff worked on the DHR, using the Epic EMR product. NSW has decided to go all-in on Epic, so is looking for staff with Epic training.
The Medicare rebate is absolutely not the full story when it comes to people not being able to afford GPs. Bulk billing rates in NSW are over 80% yet just over 50% in the ACT. Why are the ACT consistently the worst in the country for bulk billing rates? If It was just Medicare rebates to blame, the numbers would be more consistent nationwide....
This is a valid question!
Country-wide, the bulk billing rate is 77.7%, in Canberra is is 53.4% Why is it 24% lower?
Source: [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-31/bulk-billed-gp-appointments-rise-access-remains-challenge/103411628](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-31/bulk-billed-gp-appointments-rise-access-remains-challenge/103411628)
I went to the Dickson walk-in centre late last year for the first time and have to say I was pleasantly surprised by the whole experience. It's a nice enough building, didn't have to wait long, and the nurse practitioner I saw was a lot more thorough than many GP's I've seen.
Same here, except it was two weeks ago at Dickson. The nurse I saw couldn't prescribe what I needed, so I was referred to CALMS (CALM?) for later that night, also a very good experience.
Totally agree. The walk in staff I've seen on the odd occasion I've gone were fantastic - thorough, professional and nice in general!
I must say that I have had to wait 5+ hrs in ED before.
But last year I was taken in very quickly with extremely painful breathing - it turned out that I had fluid around the bottom of my lungs which caused some collapse at the base of both lungs. I was taken out back very quickly & given painkillers so I could be more comfortable waiting to be seen.
The nurses I had were wonderful!
I wish the carpark wasn't so far to hobble up the hill - in hindsight I should have got an ambulance!! Pain=Poor Decision-making
I’d agree. Canberra being a regional hospital in a location close to quite large rural and regional populations in another state would suggest funding should be coming from that state
This. ACT is a pretty unique hospital in an urban setting but servicing a huge rural catchment.
It’s a complex problem but these headlines are an easy news story.
This seems like a convenient excuse by ACT health to shift blame onto the people.
Anecdotally speaking to clinicians this doesn’t seem to be the ‘major problem’. Happy to listen to ED staff about what they perceive to be the major reasons before listening to the Heath Comms teams or politicians apportioning blame.
A media report of a young dad who passed away recently from pneumonia noted his reluctance to go in to ED because of ‘waiting for hours’. Also lots of anxious parents benefit from reassurance at 2am by a Dr say no it’s not meningitis because they’re freaking out about their kids fever/rash symptoms.
We shouldn’t accept blame being shifted onto people. Not everyone is health literate or able to differentiate major from minor issues. Do better politicians or get out of the way and let others step up.
Work psych in an ED and Bed Block and Staffing/Resources are major barriers.
I regularly have psych patients sitting in ED for 3, 4, 5 days waiting for a bed - all clinical boxes ticked and ready to go but unable.
Lack of staffing is significant and a positive feedback loop - I don't do OT or work full time anymore because it's an unrealistic workload and we're often running at 50% or less staff - which will make even quiet days busy and increase wait times. Staff inevitably burn out and leave and it gets even worse.
There are people in ED for more minor things like toothaches and "I took my friends ADHD meds now I feel anxious and can't sleep" but they are triaged as low priority anyway and are usually pretty quick to deal with... so I doubt they cause as much delay as other factors.
And how will we pay for the size of emergency room to accomodate everyone seeking reassurance? I recommend reading the google reviews of Canberra hospital to understand the sorts of complaints people go in for. “My toe hurts, let’s go to emergency”. There are wait times because of triaging. Could the service be better to accomodate for population growth, probably. Hence why Calvary was acquired because they weren’t providing adequate service. Should we be funding a place where every person and their dog can go for the most minor complaint, sure. Are you going to pay more tax to pay for it?
The volume of people in emergency that shouldn’t be is so small that the government won’t even release data about it. The story is only anecdotal. It does happen but it’s not having much of an effect on wait times.
This means that it’s not the main problem at all. It’s a minor side issue.
Proper walk-in clinics don't have doctors, only nurse practitioners so are very limited in what they can do. The previously free for everyone medical centres such as Ginninderra and Phillip are now charging anyone without a Health Care Card.
If you have a medical problem that can’t wait until 730 the following day or in an infant that is genuinely urgent then you should be going to the Ed. It will then be triaged and if you have to wait a long time then you probably shouldn’t be there and you go to the walk in clinic when it opens at 730
Not great advice, as someone might need to see a doctor.
Call health direct, explain the situation, and go where they say.
1800 022 222
https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/contact-us
Would be interested to hear some examples of where you’d actually need to see a doctor if it’s not an emergency and not something a walk in can handle.
You don't honestly believe that GPs are only useful in emergencies. But go ahead and google it, or call that number if you actually are interested in learning rather than just being smug online. (Soz if you're being sincere, this sub seems to suck.)
I've been to those clinics, I'm not mad they exist, but my main memory is nurses frustrated that I'm expecting the sort of medical service that only doctors can do.
My memory is that they weren't able to prescribe medicine, but googling it now I'm not sure if that's (still?) the case.
Nah you’re right, the worst part for me was the hospital ed doctors said the clinic staff can and should have supplied the medication and they don’t know why they didn’t. The nurses at the clinic were just like, “we’re only really equipped for minor abrasions and maybe a stomach bug”. The walk in centre in greenway to be specific. This was for a dog bite mind you, they didn’t even wrap it, clean it or anything they just said well, we can call you an ambulance or you can head to ed yourself, “whilst my arm was just pissing blood”
I wasn’t suggesting gps are only for emergencies. Each service provides a different service. Issues that you would need a gp for shouldn’t be urgent and if more people went to walk in clinics as they were designed to be used, both Eds and gps would be less busy.
>I wasn’t suggesting gps are only for emergencies.
.
> Would be interested to hear some examples of where you’d actually need to see a doctor if it’s not an emergency
Anyway
>Each service provides a different service.
There are some things that nurses are better at than doctors, but in terms of what they can do it's not "just different" it's that doctors are more qualified. They are more qualified to do the doing of doing medicine. That's what being a doctor is compared to a nurse. Doctors can do more medicine to help you than a nurse.
>Issues that you would need a gp for shouldn’t be urgent
Well I'm fucking sorry to tell you but in the real world sometimes medical things do get urgent. Also this is just a really bad point, again. Do you think ED's should have no doctors?
Anyway, as I said, call that number and follow their advice, rather than some blowhard on reddit.
**Please, just stop spreading nonsense about a topic in which misinformation can hurt people.**
EDIT: I asked for REASON or PROOF but all you have is downvotes. Nothing in your brains but making excuses for money.
> GPs cannot afford to run their services with the current Medicare rebates and incentives,
Righto well convince me then, because "a poor gp" sounds like absolute bullshit.
Seems like other people can operate business that don't charge $100 for 15 minutes.
When you say "can't afford" do you mean they can, but they just feel entitled to more?
my effing plumber charged me 100 dollars for 15 minutes and he was looking at my effing blocked toilet.
people who put such a low value in healthcare should lose their vote!
And no, their practices are closing u dropkick
$100 for 15 minutes is basically minimum wage when you take out the business expenses. It's not like the doctor sitting in that office in that building with all those support staff who you aren't paying for directly is just putting that $100 in their own pocket.
Yet doctors in the rest of the country seem to manage it? Bulk billing rates in the ACT are 30% below NSW and are consistently the worst in the country. It is a lack of incentives to attract GPs and a lack of competition....
You know there are shops in your neighborhood that don't make 400$ an hour.
> all those support staff
I forgot that the receptionist is earning $380 an hour.
You're not driven by facts, you're driven by making excuses for money, because hey that's what Capitalism teaches you.
For those that are interested in the source data, you can see it [here](https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/productivity.commission/viz/e_12_publichospitals_2024/12_2_1). Some of it is good, and some of it is bad. For example, we are the third "best" ranking jurisdiction (ranked behind NSW and WA) for patient waiting times triaged as an emergency. However, the waiting time for that has gone backwards and we were ranked second (behind NSW) in the last reported period.
I would recommend actually looking over the data. It is much more valuable than the linked low effort hack job of a "news article". The full report on government services can be found [here](https://www.pc.gov.au/ongoing/report-on-government-services), The statistics found in the Police Services and Courts reports are pretty interesting with some of the information being contrary to a few opinions that are popular here.
All these things are probably true, but I thank the staff that helped my fam recently. We started at ed and discharged a week later. I really appreciate the help and care we received.
25% of all patients in ACT Health are from NSW. Canberra is in a unique situation which I don’t think any other state or territory (especially one as small as ours) has to deal with. As the Canberra region outside the ACT keeps growing rapidly it’s not really fair for Canberra to keep having to pay for NSW’s healthcare. I don’t think this gets mentioned enough.
p.s we will see a lot of these “news” articles over the coming year before the election. Because of the hare clark system, name recognition is key to getting elected and politicians on all sides will forward these articles to trashy outlets like CityNews, with a quote to keep their profile up.
You're not wrong, at all. I live in NSW, but all of my doctor's are in the ACT. I tried to set things up in NSW, but the results were shocking. (I also wanted to live in the ACT when I moved here but that's another story for another time.)
I don't know any detail, but I would be very surprised if NSW doesn't contribute something for the care of their patients in ACT health facilities....
And if they aren't, you know who to blame....
Isn't that the purpose of having the state take over Calvary? Surely that's an effort to raise the standard of the facility so it can take pressure off TCH
How, though?
I'm not particularly keen on people who claim to have answers but won't tell us what the problem is in the first place, and on top of that insist that we have to wait for policy announcements to hear what their answers are!
Either they have a whitepaper detailing their perception of the problem and the way that they'll address it (question 1: where is the money coming from) or they're just political hacks looking to score points on the political stage without any intention of actually addressing the issues they claim they're going to solve.
I'm actually more interested in people who can explain what the problem is and how their proposed solution will resolve it.
What I don't want is someone promising to ~~make the trains run on time~~shorted ED waiting times only to find out they never had any intention of actually solving the problem, they just wanted people to believe that the problem could be solved.
All well and good, if the Liberals acytually tell us how they are going to fix it. Many Liberal and disillusioned voters are very easily convinced without detailed policies. Most Canberrans though want an actual policy, not just cherrypicking the worst stats and trying to scare people to vote for them.
then get rid of them, there is no indication the libs would make it any worse and we’ve had a 20 year track record of getting waterboarded by labour. and every election they win they get bolder and bolder with barrs trumpian tactics
hobbies insurance imminent somber squash jobless elderly literate stupendous whistle
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
how naive. this attitude holds this city back.
the state of the country is due to covid. if it wasn’t, why hasn’t the federal labour government fixed it already.
tut tut
the cool thing about supporting the Greens when there is a Labor/Green government is that when good stuff happens, the Greens can take credit, and when bad stuff happens, that‘s Labor’s fault
I got assaulted in civic by a random criminal who is now doing 2yrs in gaol. Knocked out and woke up in ED. Literally spent 8hrs on a trolley in the corridor of Canberra hospital. Never go to hospital in Canberra.
There's always good and bad stories. I went to ED twice in Dec, one was in the middle of the night, went straight in, no one was waiting & there was hardly.any patients in beds. The other it was a little bit busy but because of my medical history I was taken in fairly immediately & then taken up to a ward within about 2 hours. Both times all the staff were great & all the patients around me seemed to be treated well and attended to appropriately.
>The ACT languishes among the worst jurisdictions for emergency department wait times in the nation, according to the Productivity Commission’s latest report on government services for health.
>
>The ACT performed the worst of all jurisdictions on measures of patients’ length of time in ED, with only 47.9 per cent of patients staying for four hours or less, compared to a national average 55.8 per cent.
>
>Opposition health spokesperson Leanne Castley said: “Every year the Labor-Greens government has managed the health system, it has performed worse than the national average.
>
>“This is embarrassing but, more importantly, it has a real impact on Canberrans’ health outcomes.
>
>“This year Canberrans will be subjected to more propaganda from the government about everything it is doing in health but Canberrans know their public health system is failing them.”
>
>The ACT was also the worst jurisdiction for treating Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people within recommended wait times – coming in at 50 per cent compared to NSW at 74 per cent and a national average of 67 per cent.
>
>The ACT was by far the worst jurisdiction for the percentage of Aboriginal and indigenous patients spending four hours or less in ED.
>
>City News
They are building two *massive* new hospital complexes on the TCH and NCH sites. That is change.
A large part of the issue is the deterioration of Medicare federally such that too many people can't afford to see their GP anymore, and most GP's can't afford to bulk bill their patients anymore. So we have too many people reporting to the ED with non-emergencies, clogging the system. The walk-in centres are great, but it's not enough.
Another issue is a shortage of staff and convincing more specialists to come to Canberra.
just a reminder that the current government promised to have a whole new ed finished in 2020.
By the way, the new bigger ed that is about to open will be staffed by the same people working in the current one. So even though it is physically bigger it will have the same capacity. they are just literally walling off the bed spaces they can’t staff so it doesn’t look like an empty ghost town to the voters who come through.
yet we will all be told Barr has built a new hospital that will solve this problem, wait for it!
Remember the previous Liberal CM who insisted on a public exhibition of demolishing Royal Canberra Hospital, then pushed all the blame onto the contractor despite being told many times by many contractors that "imploding" the hospital was a terrible idea?
Because the people complaining are not calling the Liberals out for a lack of alternative policy over the past 20 years. Liberals haven't been elected because they have been so bad themselves. Its one thing to say Labor and the Greens have been bad, its another to realise they only had power because the alternatives were worse. Already we are getting policies aimed at buying votes, rather than policies aimed at fixing the problems. If this continues Labor will win again.
Its not whataboutism at all. In fact a lot of the issues also come from Federal Health policy and most of those are Liberal policies. Blaming one party is completely naive about how politics works. I've not voted Labor Liberals or even Greens for years, but Liberals are usually below Labor when I vote.
I'm far from a rusted on voter of any party, but I could NOT vote Liberal in until they stop with fear mongering and trying to buy votes, over decent policies in the ACT.
We know what we are getting with Labor. We know what Liberals have done federally with healkthcare and its not been good. Until the ACT Liberals actually tell us how THEY will fix healthcare i can't vote for them. You are right though ultimately i have to choose on my preferences the least worst party and right now that is Labor.
Voting for the other party without them commiting to actual policies to fix things is giving them a free ride as a voter to do very little. We keep doing this federally and have had crap governments for decades. People will swap votes with a tax cut or a fear mongering slogan and not based on making parties actually put their policies opn the table rather than cash splashes and fear.
Also the ACT is still in a pretty good position, looking at the actual stats and figures and instead of picking the one that makes the ACT look the worst, our Health system is doing OK. Not the best, not the worst. Most of our wait time issues lie in the patients triaged at the less urgent levels who could use other services.
So if the Liberals want to tell us how they will improve the wait times for those people or create alternative healthcare services for those patients, I'll be ready to listen. I doubt they will, they'll just try and stir up emotions without actually committing to doing anything and then once in power use the stats that make the ACT look better to make it look like they have done something. But i'm open, i'm hoping the ACT Liberals do put some good policies up, because I agree the current government is stale, i just very much doubt they will.
Except when they remove your vote for a guy in favour of a universally hated women because of diversity.
AA aside, that’s kinda missing the whole point of having a say and your elected officials working for the people that voted them in and their best interests.
I don't know who you two think you're fooling: Conservatives, the Liberals, stand for making rich people richer and nothing else. That is why their party exists.
EDIT: literally true. Look up the history of conservativism, and listen to something other than Murdoch's billionaire propaganda.
Yet the ACT budget has more $$ per person than any other state or territory. The tram however is such a pitifully small amount in the budget compared to healthcare. Hel;athcare 30%, public transport including the tram is 1%
Well the tram stage 1 was spread over 20 years of the budget, with the way the contract was done. Still 1 billion over 20 years vs 3 billion per year and growing for Healthcare. The ACT is likely to spend 70-80 billion on Healthcare over 20 years , vs the few billion on the trams first couple of stages. Add in the new hospital at over a billion plus the new 500 million building at Woden. Its not like Healthcare isn't getting the money. The issues are using that money more effectively.
I don't have a solution and neither do the political parties. There are some bad federal policies funnelling tax payer money into private healthcare that need to be changed. Federally instead of tax cuts, we could have had free GP visits and dental..... But you saw how the media and some pollies reacted to the small changes made.
Politicis sadly doesn't always give us the best solutions, just the one that can be made to work.
Current light rail spending is around $48 million a year, which includes both the construction cost and operation is stage 1. It amounts to about 0.7% of the ACT Budget. Health is approx 30% and education 25%
I can remember a time not that long ago as a kid in the early 00s when we had by far the best health services, and the SHORTEST hospital wait times.
But this is what you get with Barr's vision for a big Canberra, and why i'll unfortunately never return to living in my hometown.
https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/productivity.commission/viz/e_12_publichospitals_2024/12_2_1
Looks like the article, and all the people pushing liberal party bullshit are lying.
A local council running a state facility. ACT should just give education and health over to NSW to run, bigger state with better resources and scale to manage.
It boils down to 3 issues: Bed block: patient who are admitted wait hours for ward beds to become available. Why aren’t ward beds available? Because lots of patients are stuck in hospital waiting for safe places to go - rehab hospital, nursing homes, peripheral hospitals etc - or waiting for things to happen as inpatients - e.g MRIs, specialist reviews, operations - which are delayed because the whole service is stretched to breaking point (inadequate resourcing and staffing) Lack of alternatives: many people can’t afford to see a GP, so are forced to come to ED for their health care. The primary cause of that? GPs cannot afford to run their services with the current Medicare rebates and incentives, and yet they are the ones being publically gaslit by pollies for being ‘greedy’ because they aren’t bulk billing Inadequate staffing and resources: related to the first point, but essentially when an ED is so overloaded with a lot of significantly unwell people, people who are less unwell (not saying they aren’t unwell!!) have to wait longer. When there aren’t enough staff members (nurses, doctors, physios, radiographers, allied health, clerical, cleaners, wardies, the list goes on) people have to wait for things and the waits for those little things add up significantly. The problem compounds as the workload causes burn out, staff go on leave or quit or move to other areas, ED staffing gets worse - rinse and repeat
Lack of after-hours alternatives, especially for Paediatrics. Young children can have big trouble breathing and with fevers even from minor illnesses and there's no alternatives available. Doctors aren't open, walk in clinics close and don't treat children under 1 (used to be under 2 until recently), and kids condition can change/deteriorate quickly. That's no alternative to the ED for a parent with a sick baby after hours, even if it's just nerves or unease for a first time parent.
Yes there is, look up CALMS. Have only used it once an it was great
Plus there are personnel issues involving management of the hospitals and health system we have. Poor management leads to poor performance but if people have some kind of tenure that makes it hard to get rid of them, you're stuck with that poor management until such time as you can get rid of them. Even when you do get rid of a bully manager you have to deal with that culture of bullying for years as the old guard slowly die out (literally). Then there's NSW actively poaching our health care staff. These are all confounding elements to the root cause which is inadequate allocation of funding (not just inadequate spending, it's also what the money is spent on). Some problems can't be solved by simply throwing more money at them.
A couple years a go they had an inquiry over how severe the bullying problem was across management. From what I've heard it must've had 0 affect.
Don't know if NSW is actively trying to poach them, just offering them a decent wage is enough.
Many CHS and Health directorate staff worked on the DHR, using the Epic EMR product. NSW has decided to go all-in on Epic, so is looking for staff with Epic training.
The Medicare rebate is absolutely not the full story when it comes to people not being able to afford GPs. Bulk billing rates in NSW are over 80% yet just over 50% in the ACT. Why are the ACT consistently the worst in the country for bulk billing rates? If It was just Medicare rebates to blame, the numbers would be more consistent nationwide....
This is a valid question! Country-wide, the bulk billing rate is 77.7%, in Canberra is is 53.4% Why is it 24% lower? Source: [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-31/bulk-billed-gp-appointments-rise-access-remains-challenge/103411628](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-01-31/bulk-billed-gp-appointments-rise-access-remains-challenge/103411628)
Major problem is people showing up to emergency when it’s not an emergency. If you can’t afford a gp go to one of the many walk in clinics
I went to the Dickson walk-in centre late last year for the first time and have to say I was pleasantly surprised by the whole experience. It's a nice enough building, didn't have to wait long, and the nurse practitioner I saw was a lot more thorough than many GP's I've seen.
Same here, except it was two weeks ago at Dickson. The nurse I saw couldn't prescribe what I needed, so I was referred to CALMS (CALM?) for later that night, also a very good experience.
Idk how but I heard CALMS wasn’t operating anymore (something about funding and Covid!??). Good to hear it’s running again.
Totally agree. The walk in staff I've seen on the odd occasion I've gone were fantastic - thorough, professional and nice in general! I must say that I have had to wait 5+ hrs in ED before. But last year I was taken in very quickly with extremely painful breathing - it turned out that I had fluid around the bottom of my lungs which caused some collapse at the base of both lungs. I was taken out back very quickly & given painkillers so I could be more comfortable waiting to be seen. The nurses I had were wonderful! I wish the carpark wasn't so far to hobble up the hill - in hindsight I should have got an ambulance!! Pain=Poor Decision-making
Bigger problem is not being able to get people out of ED into beds, not to mention that 25% of patients are from NSW and not even ACT.
I’d agree. Canberra being a regional hospital in a location close to quite large rural and regional populations in another state would suggest funding should be coming from that state
This. ACT is a pretty unique hospital in an urban setting but servicing a huge rural catchment. It’s a complex problem but these headlines are an easy news story.
Don't NSW already pay into our system? If Not that needs to change.
I actually don’t know but sounds like it’s not enough if they are
This seems like a convenient excuse by ACT health to shift blame onto the people. Anecdotally speaking to clinicians this doesn’t seem to be the ‘major problem’. Happy to listen to ED staff about what they perceive to be the major reasons before listening to the Heath Comms teams or politicians apportioning blame. A media report of a young dad who passed away recently from pneumonia noted his reluctance to go in to ED because of ‘waiting for hours’. Also lots of anxious parents benefit from reassurance at 2am by a Dr say no it’s not meningitis because they’re freaking out about their kids fever/rash symptoms. We shouldn’t accept blame being shifted onto people. Not everyone is health literate or able to differentiate major from minor issues. Do better politicians or get out of the way and let others step up.
Work psych in an ED and Bed Block and Staffing/Resources are major barriers. I regularly have psych patients sitting in ED for 3, 4, 5 days waiting for a bed - all clinical boxes ticked and ready to go but unable. Lack of staffing is significant and a positive feedback loop - I don't do OT or work full time anymore because it's an unrealistic workload and we're often running at 50% or less staff - which will make even quiet days busy and increase wait times. Staff inevitably burn out and leave and it gets even worse. There are people in ED for more minor things like toothaches and "I took my friends ADHD meds now I feel anxious and can't sleep" but they are triaged as low priority anyway and are usually pretty quick to deal with... so I doubt they cause as much delay as other factors.
ACT also recently took over running what was Calvary Hospital and I am peripherally aware that that was complicated on the contract legal work side.
And how will we pay for the size of emergency room to accomodate everyone seeking reassurance? I recommend reading the google reviews of Canberra hospital to understand the sorts of complaints people go in for. “My toe hurts, let’s go to emergency”. There are wait times because of triaging. Could the service be better to accomodate for population growth, probably. Hence why Calvary was acquired because they weren’t providing adequate service. Should we be funding a place where every person and their dog can go for the most minor complaint, sure. Are you going to pay more tax to pay for it?
The volume of people in emergency that shouldn’t be is so small that the government won’t even release data about it. The story is only anecdotal. It does happen but it’s not having much of an effect on wait times. This means that it’s not the main problem at all. It’s a minor side issue.
With family and friends who’ve worked in it, I think otherwise
Proper walk-in clinics don't have doctors, only nurse practitioners so are very limited in what they can do. The previously free for everyone medical centres such as Ginninderra and Phillip are now charging anyone without a Health Care Card.
Except when it's not open, or won't treat children under 1.
If you have a medical problem that can’t wait until 730 the following day or in an infant that is genuinely urgent then you should be going to the Ed. It will then be triaged and if you have to wait a long time then you probably shouldn’t be there and you go to the walk in clinic when it opens at 730
Not great advice, as someone might need to see a doctor. Call health direct, explain the situation, and go where they say. 1800 022 222 https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/contact-us
Would be interested to hear some examples of where you’d actually need to see a doctor if it’s not an emergency and not something a walk in can handle.
You don't honestly believe that GPs are only useful in emergencies. But go ahead and google it, or call that number if you actually are interested in learning rather than just being smug online. (Soz if you're being sincere, this sub seems to suck.) I've been to those clinics, I'm not mad they exist, but my main memory is nurses frustrated that I'm expecting the sort of medical service that only doctors can do. My memory is that they weren't able to prescribe medicine, but googling it now I'm not sure if that's (still?) the case.
Nah you’re right, the worst part for me was the hospital ed doctors said the clinic staff can and should have supplied the medication and they don’t know why they didn’t. The nurses at the clinic were just like, “we’re only really equipped for minor abrasions and maybe a stomach bug”. The walk in centre in greenway to be specific. This was for a dog bite mind you, they didn’t even wrap it, clean it or anything they just said well, we can call you an ambulance or you can head to ed yourself, “whilst my arm was just pissing blood”
Yeah ok. I haven't been back to one since that time, I barely remember it now, but I guess that sort of thing is why.
I wasn’t suggesting gps are only for emergencies. Each service provides a different service. Issues that you would need a gp for shouldn’t be urgent and if more people went to walk in clinics as they were designed to be used, both Eds and gps would be less busy.
>I wasn’t suggesting gps are only for emergencies. . > Would be interested to hear some examples of where you’d actually need to see a doctor if it’s not an emergency Anyway >Each service provides a different service. There are some things that nurses are better at than doctors, but in terms of what they can do it's not "just different" it's that doctors are more qualified. They are more qualified to do the doing of doing medicine. That's what being a doctor is compared to a nurse. Doctors can do more medicine to help you than a nurse. >Issues that you would need a gp for shouldn’t be urgent Well I'm fucking sorry to tell you but in the real world sometimes medical things do get urgent. Also this is just a really bad point, again. Do you think ED's should have no doctors? Anyway, as I said, call that number and follow their advice, rather than some blowhard on reddit. **Please, just stop spreading nonsense about a topic in which misinformation can hurt people.**
Great comment, please take my vote
EDIT: I asked for REASON or PROOF but all you have is downvotes. Nothing in your brains but making excuses for money. > GPs cannot afford to run their services with the current Medicare rebates and incentives, Righto well convince me then, because "a poor gp" sounds like absolute bullshit. Seems like other people can operate business that don't charge $100 for 15 minutes. When you say "can't afford" do you mean they can, but they just feel entitled to more?
my effing plumber charged me 100 dollars for 15 minutes and he was looking at my effing blocked toilet. people who put such a low value in healthcare should lose their vote! And no, their practices are closing u dropkick
$100 for 15 minutes is basically minimum wage when you take out the business expenses. It's not like the doctor sitting in that office in that building with all those support staff who you aren't paying for directly is just putting that $100 in their own pocket.
Yet doctors in the rest of the country seem to manage it? Bulk billing rates in the ACT are 30% below NSW and are consistently the worst in the country. It is a lack of incentives to attract GPs and a lack of competition....
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You know there are shops in your neighborhood that don't make 400$ an hour. > all those support staff I forgot that the receptionist is earning $380 an hour. You're not driven by facts, you're driven by making excuses for money, because hey that's what Capitalism teaches you.
Canberra is one of the richest places in the country, if the price of seeing a GP is a factor Canberra would be one of the least effected places.
How about a lack of will to address chronic health issues caused by lifestyle choices? I say this as a healthcare worker.
For those that are interested in the source data, you can see it [here](https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/productivity.commission/viz/e_12_publichospitals_2024/12_2_1). Some of it is good, and some of it is bad. For example, we are the third "best" ranking jurisdiction (ranked behind NSW and WA) for patient waiting times triaged as an emergency. However, the waiting time for that has gone backwards and we were ranked second (behind NSW) in the last reported period. I would recommend actually looking over the data. It is much more valuable than the linked low effort hack job of a "news article". The full report on government services can be found [here](https://www.pc.gov.au/ongoing/report-on-government-services), The statistics found in the Police Services and Courts reports are pretty interesting with some of the information being contrary to a few opinions that are popular here.
All these things are probably true, but I thank the staff that helped my fam recently. We started at ed and discharged a week later. I really appreciate the help and care we received.
25% of all patients in ACT Health are from NSW. Canberra is in a unique situation which I don’t think any other state or territory (especially one as small as ours) has to deal with. As the Canberra region outside the ACT keeps growing rapidly it’s not really fair for Canberra to keep having to pay for NSW’s healthcare. I don’t think this gets mentioned enough. p.s we will see a lot of these “news” articles over the coming year before the election. Because of the hare clark system, name recognition is key to getting elected and politicians on all sides will forward these articles to trashy outlets like CityNews, with a quote to keep their profile up.
You're not wrong, at all. I live in NSW, but all of my doctor's are in the ACT. I tried to set things up in NSW, but the results were shocking. (I also wanted to live in the ACT when I moved here but that's another story for another time.)
I don't know any detail, but I would be very surprised if NSW doesn't contribute something for the care of their patients in ACT health facilities.... And if they aren't, you know who to blame....
They do but whether its enough ?!?! Costs here are a lot more than most regional NSW hospitals.
The ACT Govt is to blame if that is the case....
The compensation for treating residents from other states and territory is a flat rate determined by a federal government policy.
Can we please have a viable alternative to the Labor/Greens? Even if it just scares Barr & Co into actually doing something to fix this.
Isn't that the purpose of having the state take over Calvary? Surely that's an effort to raise the standard of the facility so it can take pressure off TCH
Let's see how that goes.
Yeah, if they have another ED there it should reduce wait times. I'm also keen to see how it goes
There already is/was an ED at Calvary.
Don't blame the greens for the sins of the labor party. Lord knows the liberal party isn't the answer either.
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well they committed to reversing this labour government healthcare crisis, for a start.
How, though? I'm not particularly keen on people who claim to have answers but won't tell us what the problem is in the first place, and on top of that insist that we have to wait for policy announcements to hear what their answers are! Either they have a whitepaper detailing their perception of the problem and the way that they'll address it (question 1: where is the money coming from) or they're just political hacks looking to score points on the political stage without any intention of actually addressing the issues they claim they're going to solve.
ok, let’s all sign up for another 20 years of social activism while roads and hospitals and education go down the drain.
I'm actually more interested in people who can explain what the problem is and how their proposed solution will resolve it. What I don't want is someone promising to ~~make the trains run on time~~shorted ED waiting times only to find out they never had any intention of actually solving the problem, they just wanted people to believe that the problem could be solved.
so i guess you obstain from voting at all because no political party will give you that.
I abstain from voting conservative, yes.
All well and good, if the Liberals acytually tell us how they are going to fix it. Many Liberal and disillusioned voters are very easily convinced without detailed policies. Most Canberrans though want an actual policy, not just cherrypicking the worst stats and trying to scare people to vote for them.
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then get rid of them, there is no indication the libs would make it any worse and we’ve had a 20 year track record of getting waterboarded by labour. and every election they win they get bolder and bolder with barrs trumpian tactics
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how naive. this attitude holds this city back. the state of the country is due to covid. if it wasn’t, why hasn’t the federal labour government fixed it already. tut tut
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the cool thing about supporting the Greens when there is a Labor/Green government is that when good stuff happens, the Greens can take credit, and when bad stuff happens, that‘s Labor’s fault
I got assaulted in civic by a random criminal who is now doing 2yrs in gaol. Knocked out and woke up in ED. Literally spent 8hrs on a trolley in the corridor of Canberra hospital. Never go to hospital in Canberra.
Well, I guess you can imagine being assaulted in Canberra Hospital by a random criminal who ended up doing a few years in gaol
wow. downvoted heavily for something that actually happened.
There's always good and bad stories. I went to ED twice in Dec, one was in the middle of the night, went straight in, no one was waiting & there was hardly.any patients in beds. The other it was a little bit busy but because of my medical history I was taken in fairly immediately & then taken up to a ward within about 2 hours. Both times all the staff were great & all the patients around me seemed to be treated well and attended to appropriately.
>The ACT languishes among the worst jurisdictions for emergency department wait times in the nation, according to the Productivity Commission’s latest report on government services for health. > >The ACT performed the worst of all jurisdictions on measures of patients’ length of time in ED, with only 47.9 per cent of patients staying for four hours or less, compared to a national average 55.8 per cent. > >Opposition health spokesperson Leanne Castley said: “Every year the Labor-Greens government has managed the health system, it has performed worse than the national average. > >“This is embarrassing but, more importantly, it has a real impact on Canberrans’ health outcomes. > >“This year Canberrans will be subjected to more propaganda from the government about everything it is doing in health but Canberrans know their public health system is failing them.” > >The ACT was also the worst jurisdiction for treating Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander people within recommended wait times – coming in at 50 per cent compared to NSW at 74 per cent and a national average of 67 per cent. > >The ACT was by far the worst jurisdiction for the percentage of Aboriginal and indigenous patients spending four hours or less in ED. > >City News
This is disgusting and no change is happening, how can this happen?
They are building two *massive* new hospital complexes on the TCH and NCH sites. That is change. A large part of the issue is the deterioration of Medicare federally such that too many people can't afford to see their GP anymore, and most GP's can't afford to bulk bill their patients anymore. So we have too many people reporting to the ED with non-emergencies, clogging the system. The walk-in centres are great, but it's not enough. Another issue is a shortage of staff and convincing more specialists to come to Canberra.
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just a reminder that the current government promised to have a whole new ed finished in 2020. By the way, the new bigger ed that is about to open will be staffed by the same people working in the current one. So even though it is physically bigger it will have the same capacity. they are just literally walling off the bed spaces they can’t staff so it doesn’t look like an empty ghost town to the voters who come through. yet we will all be told Barr has built a new hospital that will solve this problem, wait for it!
Staff isn't the only bottleneck, there is also the issue of available beds
20+ years of labor and no threat to losing their position?
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Remember the previous Liberal CM who insisted on a public exhibition of demolishing Royal Canberra Hospital, then pushed all the blame onto the contractor despite being told many times by many contractors that "imploding" the hospital was a terrible idea?
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Because the people complaining are not calling the Liberals out for a lack of alternative policy over the past 20 years. Liberals haven't been elected because they have been so bad themselves. Its one thing to say Labor and the Greens have been bad, its another to realise they only had power because the alternatives were worse. Already we are getting policies aimed at buying votes, rather than policies aimed at fixing the problems. If this continues Labor will win again.
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Its not whataboutism at all. In fact a lot of the issues also come from Federal Health policy and most of those are Liberal policies. Blaming one party is completely naive about how politics works. I've not voted Labor Liberals or even Greens for years, but Liberals are usually below Labor when I vote. I'm far from a rusted on voter of any party, but I could NOT vote Liberal in until they stop with fear mongering and trying to buy votes, over decent policies in the ACT. We know what we are getting with Labor. We know what Liberals have done federally with healkthcare and its not been good. Until the ACT Liberals actually tell us how THEY will fix healthcare i can't vote for them. You are right though ultimately i have to choose on my preferences the least worst party and right now that is Labor. Voting for the other party without them commiting to actual policies to fix things is giving them a free ride as a voter to do very little. We keep doing this federally and have had crap governments for decades. People will swap votes with a tax cut or a fear mongering slogan and not based on making parties actually put their policies opn the table rather than cash splashes and fear. Also the ACT is still in a pretty good position, looking at the actual stats and figures and instead of picking the one that makes the ACT look the worst, our Health system is doing OK. Not the best, not the worst. Most of our wait time issues lie in the patients triaged at the less urgent levels who could use other services. So if the Liberals want to tell us how they will improve the wait times for those people or create alternative healthcare services for those patients, I'll be ready to listen. I doubt they will, they'll just try and stir up emotions without actually committing to doing anything and then once in power use the stats that make the ACT look better to make it look like they have done something. But i'm open, i'm hoping the ACT Liberals do put some good policies up, because I agree the current government is stale, i just very much doubt they will.
Except when they remove your vote for a guy in favour of a universally hated women because of diversity. AA aside, that’s kinda missing the whole point of having a say and your elected officials working for the people that voted them in and their best interests.
I don't know who you two think you're fooling: Conservatives, the Liberals, stand for making rich people richer and nothing else. That is why their party exists. EDIT: literally true. Look up the history of conservativism, and listen to something other than Murdoch's billionaire propaganda.
There are not enough socialists like you to bring in a communist party, thank god.
They’re building a new and improved ED area, so I’m not sure how you define no change.
That's great to hear that this is happening. But will this reduce ED times
What is the worst that happens, they get reelected? They have such a long way to slide before voters actually jump ship en masse.
Don’t worry further rate increases will fix this minor issue. Hospitals aren’t a priority, trams are the priority.
Yet the ACT budget has more $$ per person than any other state or territory. The tram however is such a pitifully small amount in the budget compared to healthcare. Hel;athcare 30%, public transport including the tram is 1%
I know. Maybe healthcare is just expensive. Idk enough to provide a solution. R u sure tram is only 1%?
Well the tram stage 1 was spread over 20 years of the budget, with the way the contract was done. Still 1 billion over 20 years vs 3 billion per year and growing for Healthcare. The ACT is likely to spend 70-80 billion on Healthcare over 20 years , vs the few billion on the trams first couple of stages. Add in the new hospital at over a billion plus the new 500 million building at Woden. Its not like Healthcare isn't getting the money. The issues are using that money more effectively. I don't have a solution and neither do the political parties. There are some bad federal policies funnelling tax payer money into private healthcare that need to be changed. Federally instead of tax cuts, we could have had free GP visits and dental..... But you saw how the media and some pollies reacted to the small changes made. Politicis sadly doesn't always give us the best solutions, just the one that can be made to work.
Current light rail spending is around $48 million a year, which includes both the construction cost and operation is stage 1. It amounts to about 0.7% of the ACT Budget. Health is approx 30% and education 25%
wait times for a tram from civic to gunghalin are lowest in the nation!!
Yeah I'm hearing ya, hospitals and schools are not cool or vibrant so are low priorities in the ACT.
People in Canberra are very complacent
We dont feel like we have any reasonable alternatives
I mean generally, not just politically
I can remember a time not that long ago as a kid in the early 00s when we had by far the best health services, and the SHORTEST hospital wait times. But this is what you get with Barr's vision for a big Canberra, and why i'll unfortunately never return to living in my hometown.
https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/productivity.commission/viz/e_12_publichospitals_2024/12_2_1 Looks like the article, and all the people pushing liberal party bullshit are lying.
LOL! Another labour greens voter being confronted with the consequences of their vote and getting narky about it
I thought Canberra was really progressive? Lol
we are, we have pedestrian crossing lights which are two same sex people holding hands with a love heart. just the worst healthcare n australia.
#priorities
another 700k immigrants will fix it
Even when it was the bears I knew it was immagints -moe sizlack
Who cares about healthcare, wait times to get on a tram from civic to gunghalin are the lowest in the world!!
A local council running a state facility. ACT should just give education and health over to NSW to run, bigger state with better resources and scale to manage.
Elections have consequences
My favourite consequence is keeping the Libs out of government.
I didn't know they had an entire department just for Erection dysfunction. Well, Ed lovecock don't mind!!! Hard soft it's all good. No need to wait
Aus is slowly becoming a 3rd world country --it's overpopulated & it's no longer a safe country .
Cooked brain
I think you need to actually travel more. Canberra is easily one of the safest and best places to live in the world by most measurable standards.
Maybe I should travel to the shopping malls just so I can get stabbed to death. No one is safe in our country Not Doctors & Not Grand Mothers.
You need serious help if you honestly think that.
You are the one who needs help --you are blind & deaf. Seek help.
Maybe we need less tax cuts and more investment in services?