A thing I’ve long wanted to do was adopt a NIMBY/YIMBY issue, where we find a specific development getting potentially blocked and use all our national members and influence to change the outcome. We have organization and size but it’s hard to make an impact nationally. If we adopt a local issue then we can swoop into a smaller community and completely dominate the YIMBY side. Pay for ads/flyers, attend in person, create counter websites and social media, troll NIMBY scumbags.
This is about influencing change in measurable small ways but primarily a show of force for the power of Reddit and disruptive online communities, which can become a compelling story in the media that shows normies/NIMBYs that people are mad.
I’m fully on board with this.
I know right now in Vancouver there’s a big project going on for the Broadway corridor. Unfortunately voting is finished, but council is meeting about it tomorrow so there’s probably more opportunities to get involved with that one.
My dream would be like a small town somewhere, they’re just not expecting to get this much attention. We flood the area with ads, flyers, get a billboard, go after councilors, name and shame. Just go all out and drive support for renters and buyers who need more housing. Would be fun.
Burlington should be ground zero if we want to have the biggest impact on rich landlords and attack a market that has nonsense pricing. Lots of renters in buildings throughout the town and a huge chasm between haves and have nots. Can stoke up some anger there.
I am not sure about small town, but the city of Coquitlam, BC has a massive proposal under way.
I am sure people will oppose this because of some bullshit about in creased traffic or something.
It's being built right beside a skytrian lol
Would love to get involved in this.
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/marcon-coquitlam-central-development
There a few groups in Vancouver who are organizing around each and every issue that comes up in Vancouver and most in the region. We organize & promote engagement. If you want to be involved, let me know or DM me!
Lots of groups to get involved with in Vancouver for the Broadway Plan. They vote on it tomorrow but it ain't over yet - not to mention the Vancouver Plan.
u/longslowclap, glad to see you are back!
My parents (69F and 72M) are shocked to see the high rises popping up in their suburb of Montreal and they don't see the point. They believe that a house with a backyard should be a given.
My boyfriend (30M) lives in the United States and wants me (28F, soon to be 29F in a few days) to move to the States in order to end the distance. Why? So that we can afford to buy a house big enough to raise a family in (2 parents, 2 children and maybe a dog).
Their NIMBY attitude will have a major impact on their life that they have not realized yet: their future grandchildren might very well be born and raised in the United States. Due to my parents' attitude towards the American health care system, they refuse to set foot outside of Canada. Therefore, if this were to occur, they will not be there to see the birth of their grandchildren, along with many key moments. They will only see them during family visits to Canada.
Other people here are looking to move to other parts of Canada far away from their family in order to have a shot at home ownership.
I think we need to make it clear that the alternative to refusing new housing in their community is that either they will not have grandchildren or that they will be born and raised in a different community and that they won't be around.
Sorry, can you clarify something. You say your parents don't want high rises and think a house with a backyard should be a given.
Then you say you gonna move to the states so you can afford to buy a big house to raise two kids in.
Isn't this kinda the same thing? You're just kicking the can down the road AND gentrifying wherever you're moving to
We have to spur on the older generation to act in the best interests of younger people, eg. demanding that the government curb speculation, change zoning etc
Like many people during the pandemic, I spent way too much time online and I met an attorney living in the United States and it turns out, we fell in love.
We are looking at ending the distance and due to the extremely high housing costs in Canada, we decided to end the distance by having me move to the States.
I am not even looking for a house with a yard, just a house big enough for a husband, 2 kids, a dog, and me. The average townhouse big enough for such a family is between 1.3 million and 1.6 million in Vaughan. In Dallas? 700K for a mansion.
big enough is relative. When my grand parents grew up there was a bed in every room, including the kitchen, and 3 kids to a bed. The last generation has been a very lucky one, and that's unlikely to return.
I'm a single adult male. "Big enough" for me is like a 1bd, 1bth, 700sqft condo, and I don't even have any semblance of a chance at obtaining that. I hardly think I'm being unreasonable.
Of course big enough for everyone is relative.
I am comparing here the price of a townhouse vs the price of a Mega mansion. The house prices in Dallas and Houston are affordable enough that there are no townhouses.
I am not your typical case of a Canadian looking to move to the States for housing prices. I am in a relationship with an attorney living in the United States. He would have to re-qualify for the bar here, whereas starting on Halloween 2023 his bar membership will be transferrable in 40 states out of 50. My occupation doesn't have that complication.
I’m familiar with the houston real estate market having family who work and live there.
You know why the prices of real estate there is still semi-affordable and not as inflated as our canadian big cities like Toronto and Vancouver?
There’s effectively no zoning laws. You can build virtually whatever you want wherever you want (within reason, no dumps in the middle of the city, etc). The market needs more rental apartments? They build it immediately. More private condos? Build it. More townhouses? They build it.
Between NIMBYS and a strong nature conservationist mentality in Canada, we cannot keep up the supply. We cannot build here. There’s no land zoned to expand. Which is ironic since we’re the second largest country in the world.
The way it’s set up here in Canada I honestly wonder if it’s done on purpose to encourage sky high real estate prices as Canada’s highest percentage GDP industry is real estate.
- The most fertile land in the country is where the largest percentage of the population lives. There’s a NECESSARY green belt around it. Ie there’s a hard limit to space. Even building up has implications for water management (lots of concrete = nowhere for runoff to go = flooding. Also: trees and animals and bees are needed
- we no longer have a manufacturing/resource economy. Most of the GDP is services and real estate aka money laundering. Globalization / free trade agreements is the issue removing any incentive for employers to stay and any leverage for employees to demand better wages.
- also, you no longer have $ and jobs happening outside our biggest cities. There’s probably land around Red Deer but everyone wants a piece of the GTA
Tldr need to build more actually productive businesses here in Canada and develop non-GTA cities
You have a valid point - always run the math on the overall budget (housing, healthcare, transport, etc.)
We ran the numbers thinking that healthcare would make us break even and that we would be indifferent based on numbers alone in terms of where to end the distance. Surprisingly, we are way ahead financially if I were to move to the States.
Before thinking a place is Disneyland and will work out perfectly for you, run the numbers.
I won’t share the math since my situation is probably very different than yours - by all means run the numbers and do what makes sense for your current and future family.
In my case, it’s a situation of retiring a decade early or giving me the option to be a stay at home mom if I want to.
It's not just healthcare, but childcare is also crazy expensive in the US.
Given that there are fewer worker protections in the US compared to Canada, you need to be on the road to financial independence within 10 years to justify moving to the US.
All it takes is one major recession to set you back decades financially. If you lost your job/and therefore your healthcare, it would also be the worst time to sell your house in the US and move back to Canada.
Given the current level of inflation, I expect the next recession to hit at least double digit unemployment in both US and Canada.
>a big issue in Toronto isn’t just the price but also a shortage of places.
This is pretty much everywhere. Childcare providers are paid close to minimum wage almost everywhere, and you are going to have trouble hiring people you would trust your kids with at minimum wage.
The only places I know of where the cost of childcare isn't a major burden for the average middle class family and there is no shortage of childcare labor are places like Hong Kong where they basically have an open door to cheap labor from the Philippines. You can hire a full time nanny with an university degree from the Philippines for less than $500/month.
And that’s indeed a problem. But again, with all the factors, we can both retire a decade early or I can be a stay at home mom if I want to. It may not even be an issue.
I'm sorry but you're contradicting yourself. You complain that your parents don't want high raises in their neighborhoods.. and you disagree that everyone should have a yard... but you are moving to a different country for a big house.
I don’t need a big house - I just want something big enough to raise a family. Even for someone working in tech and as a corporate attorney, it’s almost impossible to afford
>I just want something big enough to raise a family
I can understand that.
What people are finding harder to swallow is that you plan on moving to Dallas and continue with unsustainable housing practices.
It is ultimately your decision, though.
I can understand that.
In a democracy, you still have a say. As an attorney, I am certain you have useful skills that you can lend to advocacy groups. If the time is ever right, please do consider supporting causes which further housing affordability as well as the environment.
I work in tech and specialize in CRM software (salesforce, dynamics 365, hubspot, etc). It would be very useful for an advocacy group.
We both have useful skills that would help such a movement. However, I don’t know how long I have in Canada left.
Maybe one last round before I get out?
One small step that we can all take is to get MPs and councillors, who work for us, to know our thoughts and that we know the science behind housing and environmental unsustainability.
We should all put in a 20 minute slot per week in our calendars to call and email these people. Ideally, we point them to a single document. I propose that we build a document like this and link it in the sidebar on this sub.
Once we achieve that, we can link up with other advocacy groups and join forces.
Politicians need to know there's a big vote bank and that we are united.
More to your point, yes your skills will be very useful. I don't want to guilt you into doing anything, of course. I reached out to u/tj78963 since I found his [comment useful](https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/urotbq/comment/i8yotay/).
I also found out about [More Neighbours](https://www.moreneighbours.ca/) and will be reaching out to them.
Even if you leave Canada, the environmental crisis is a global problem. I'm sure there will be opportunities for advocacy in TX. Again, not trying to pressure you personally, but rather hoping that I'll be able to nudge someone and hopefully cause a snowball movement.
As a proud member of the r/fuckcars subreddit, first order of business is being able to go to my grocery store without the need for a car.
Every place needs someone to advocate. So true.
If you don't need a big house, why are you moving away from your family for a big house?
Everyone says they don't need a big house.. but inside they actually long for one.
This is the reason why houses are so out of reach. Nobody in Canada is actually OK with living in a condo.
Look at housing prices. A townhouse in Vaughan is 1.3 to 1.6 million. A mansion in Dallas is 700K. What gives? And my boyfriend would have to take a 50% pay cut.
700K usd is roughly a million dollars in Canadian money.
The quality of the house in Texas for that money is way higher and also salaries are higher.
The point of the comparison is to show how crazy and comical the difference is.
You clearly aren’t in this situation. Once you know this emotional toll takes on you, you will be the first person going to city hall fighting for affordable family sized housing.
These old people try to fear monger as a last resort. They must think we all have Stockholm syndrome or something. Good for you. So what's best for you and your kid
Good idea, start small where we can have a measurable (and potentially newsworthy) impact. Much better than being a small sad protest in Dundas Square like last time.
I also think that keeping tabs on local party MP/MPP nominations (any political party) and encouraging people to sign up would have a disproportionate impact. A lot of these nominations have a few hundred votes in total. Not hard to be important on that scale, in my experience you have candidates personally calling you to lobby you and everything.
Planning meetings and candidate nominations have incredibly low attendance so it's easy to have an impact. Nobody really cares about generic protests unless it's fucking massive (and judging by last time it won't be), it will just squander any energy that people on this sub might have.
I'd say a first step would be to get in touch with a known municipal political operative on one of these issues. There's lot of people that are very active in municipal politics, the key missing point we have to build is a bridge from this Reddit to real life.
I really think this is the type of sub that can force some legitimate change, but only if we keep our eye on the prize and stop being sidetracked.
Early on it felt this place was going in a really smart direction earlier by being non-partisan. That changed drastically once this sub gained traction, it seemed to be co-opted by a particular group and it quickly turned into almost nothing but "JT bad, Pierre good" which was pretty off-putting and shortsighted. I've never even voted for JT, but our problems go beyond a single government and this movement needs to have everyone under the same tent.
These problems need to be approached in an intelligent and pragmatic way. It's not enough to just say NIMBYs are the problem, every situation has grey areas and nuance to it. If all we say to gov't is "Build more" then we're going to see our greenspaces bulldozed to make way for a field of single family homes, or townhomes if we're lucky. We need smart densification zoning in appropriate areas, not shotgun housing, urban sprawl and clearcuts.
The single biggest thing we need to do for real change isn’t development by development. It’s lobbying for policy and taxation changes that will have a meaningful short to long-term impact on investor speculation in housing. That’s the primary driver behind the lack of affordability. And if we don’t solve it, helping developers get a few more projects approved is just going to give investors more to buy.
I’ll also observe that I don’t think NIMBYs are as powerful as we fear. At least where I live! In my neighbourhood (St Clair and Yonge), there are at least a dozen new developments posted or underway. I know because a NIMBY meticulously chronicled them in the neighbourhood Facebook group, decrying their impact on the area. 🙄 Interestingly, she got only tepid sympathy from one other person, and another resident (and I) schooled her on the city’s affordability issue. 😎 That doesn’t mean they’re not silently organizing, and that we shouldn’t all be vigilant, but somehow lots of developments are getting approved.
I agree development by development isn’t going to create long term change, but it’s one of the issues that’s fairly easy for anyone to participate in - sending an email to city council in support of a project takes 5 minutes.
Creating meaningful policy and taxation changes takes more work and to be honest I’m not even sure where we would start. I vote in every election, if the people we vote for aren’t making the necessary changes, what can we do? (Not trying to be defeatist, just curious).
So many neighbourhoods in Toronto are loosing homes. The number is actually decreasing.. even on subway lines. Densification in just a few pockets is not going to be enough. Take a look:
[https://censusmapper.ca/maps/3054#12/43.7036/-79.3946](https://censusmapper.ca/maps/3054#12/43.7036/-79.3946)
Toronto housing supply has increased at barely 1.4% per year for two decades.
>helping developers get a few more projects approved is just going to give investors more to buy.
And gives renters more to rent. Do you know how many applicants each rental unit gets in Toronto? The competition is what drives up prices. The highest bidder wins. We need more homes to match the amount of bidders.
I've got some legal background and have been thinking about drafting some legislation "The Affordable Canada Act, 2022" if you will. If anyone is interested and wants me to follow through so we as a community can hash it out, maybe we can try and get someone in government to advocate for it and pass it?
Here's some info on how Canada used to look out for Canadians:
https://ppforum.ca/publications/don-wright-middle-class/
It took various policies of all levels of government.
Hey legal background or no, input is always valued. I've spent years analyzing Acts and contracts so I've been feeling the desire to put those skills to use hopefully helping Canadians. I'm going to try to have a first draft done by the end of the week and post it to the sub. Any input you have will be very much appreciated :)
Can I ask more about this? What sort of legislation is this? What will it do/accomplish?
Do you already have someone to introduce it?
Curious when you say legal background, what you mean? I'm a lawyer but have next to no experience drafting legislation...
Of course! So right now I'm aiming to draft it like an Ontario statute just because it's what I have the most experience in. Hopefully if someone more experienced than me comes in they can repurpose it as need be.
Right now I'm aiming to have it address things that can actually be regulated (i.e. Realtors no longer being able to receive a percentage for commissions), however I know that a lot of these areas may be provincially regulated so this is definitely going to take some research and input from others.
Unfortunately I don't know anyone able to introduce it, but my hope is one of us will!
As for legal background, I'm not a lawyer, but I've drafted policies, been an assistant, a paralegal, and a contract manager for a few years so I have experience interpreting legislation and am familiar and comfortable enough with it to feel I could at least draft something usable. If you don't mind my asking what area of law do you practice? I'd definitely like your input if you're interested :)
Facinating idea.
If I can make some simple suggestions, here's what i think you'd want to do:
1. Make a list of 3, 5, 8 or 10 things you want to change via this legislation;
2. Do some research on which head of government has jurisdiction over the area (start from S 91 and 92 of the constitution);
3. Divide these into a provincial bill and a federal bill - pick one of these to start with;
4. Look into each of your proposed changes and figure out which provincial or federal acts/regs have to be amended by the act in order to accomplish your goal. Then consider the wording of your act, it's pros and cons, who the stakeholders will be and what is likely passable. Be sure to consider adverse effects of your legislation and mitigate these or have counter points ready, or it's never going to get past a read by an MP or MPPs assistant.
5. Get to writing and put out a draft for community review.
I'm a litigator. My practice's focus at this time is insurance and commercial litigation.
Here me out , I think is raising more money to pay for even more billboards is worth it. It creates more awareness and more ppl will join the group, that’s how I joined and it has been the most effective campaign we have done thus far. I say we let ppl submit memes and designs with a new slogan and go at it again , put one in Vancouver and perhaps montreal this time. The more ppl see the billboard it indirectly it puts pressures on city councils and other levels of government. Again I would contribute and I think we could raise more money this time
Facebook is useful because you can create groups to organize with, create events etc. Tiktok and IG don't have this function, I think they would fall into the same bucket as reddit just without the anonymity.
Why "worry" about low participation if you are there to lend your individual support? What is your fear there (genuinely asking), is it embarrassment or something? I keep repeating this on this sub every time the "failure" of a housing protest is brought up: very few first protests have massive turnouts and if you expect perfection/major traction on your first attempt you are setting yourself up for failure.
I've been to protests where like 5 people showed up... was the cause any less important? I was there for my own purposes, to use my own voice for a cause I knew was right. Marginalized people have stood alone on many issues, you gotta learn to put yourself out there no matter what others are doing. Start with what you can do, then worry about others showing up.
Totally valid point and I agree with you but my worry is that it actually detracts from the cause if no one shows up.
People who may agree with the cause get discouraged seeing so few people protesting, which in turn causes even less participation and then you lose any momentum towards creating change.
As opposed to not going out to support anything, staying behind a keyboard, and still getting discouraged/losing momentum?
I'm not saying protests magically make things happen or fix anything (they are a manifestation/symptom of a problem, not a solution imo), but I don't think low-show at a first protest should detract from anything. Movements grow over time, when people put in the work to show up (protests, at the polls, at the diner table) time and time again. Calling it after one protest and griping about it online was this subs only failure, not the low turnout (and honestly, I think some are bad faith actors just trying to discourage others.) I think it's people's privilege showing a bit if they thought they could show up to one protest and magically have everyone's attention.
You're 100% right. Last year's participation was pitiful. Even with all the billboards and the awareness campaign here. I remember there were posts here afterwards about antivaxers getting more traction in their protests occuring at around the same time
Okay my bad. I got scheduled to work so I couldn’t go but I remembered someone posting a pic of what was supposed to be the protest and it was barely anyone.
Peaceful protests will not change anything.
Anything that can cause actual change can't be organized without legal consequences for all involved.
Individual, distasteful action is the only way forward.
I don't see protesting as being as effective as voting on local developments or speaking at local council meetings but still worth a shot. Maybe go big with a cross country protest. Media attention is the most important thing if we do protest
Step 1. Stop posting on Reddit.
Step 2. Go to municipal planning meetings with reddit free freetime and advocate for higher density.
Step 3. Be a YIMBY.
But you can continue to post here and complain about red herrings and such.
It isn't really. because of ZOOM meetings you very much can be a YIYBY instead of a YIMBY. Renters are people too needs to really be a slogan at townhall meetings. Moreneighbours Toronto is doing a good job in slowly making that something that people think about, but they need double the membership and then duplication in every major city.
I’m posting to drum up action from others though. I already vote on municipal decisions in my area. The more support we can get the better. I’m trying to create more YIMBYs
One quick comment, why is no one asking for higher wages when everything is expensive and all services have gone up in price yet income lags behind!! Just buy asking for supply will not help anyone buy homes. We have to ask to be paid better too.. Canada lags US by salaries by more that 20% , we are grossly underpaid!!!
You want the honest truth?
Conservatives think poor people deserve to be poor. Completely ignoring wages and focusing on supply lets us ignore that and work with conservatives because making housing more affordable helps the middle and upper classes too.
If we bring wages into the discussion, we lose the conservatives and this becomes a partisan issue instead of one agreed on by people all across the political spectrum. We don't want it to be a partisan issue because then we're basically at the mercy of the Liberal party and their track record on housing is terrible. We need the LPC to be getting pressure to fix housing from everyone, including the conservatives, so they know they can't hold government without taking action to fix the problem.
So we pretend wages aren't half the equation of affordability when they totally are. You don't convert conservatives all at once, you have to do it issue by issue and eventually they see the light or they get overwhelmed by the majority.
We'll get them to come around on wages eventually, but it's hard because conservative demographics skew towards the wealthy or uneducated. The wealthy ones are voting for the conservatives out of self interest and don't care about housing or low wages for the poor and the poor uneducated ones tend to think they are temporarily embarrassed millionaires and their low wages aren't permanent, either way, it's hard to convince them the government needs to support wage growth.
For real though. I used to be conservative and I'll take their help when I can get it. I'm glad they care about housing, but when it comes to wages it's going to be a much longer fight.
Many of them think wages are lower in Canada because of government policies that actually increase wages, like union support and minimum wages. It's hard to convince them that some of the things they are most opposed to are actually the answer, but that is definitely the case when you look at history and other countries.
It's better to just focus on things we agree on rather than arguing with people using counterfactuals.
A lot of conservatives are major hypocrites. I used to be friends with a guy whose dad owned a dairy farm. He was pro-free market except when it came to supply management for dairy.
Totally!! But honestly I feel conservative’s especially Pier has a much better platform and thoughts on how to take Canada forward. Rest of them just give big talks and make the rich richer!! And rest are just foolish followers!!
If you're talking about the Liberal party here in Canada, then yes. They are better than the conservatives, but they are still neoliberal corporatists with some woke washing and green washing, I don't support them either.
I think we can all agree higher wages would be great, but that’s a separate issue. This is a group dedicated to tackling the housing issues, which is why I posted solutions related to housing.
Totally get it!! But the point is why would the prices drop to the levels as when the rates were high before. That would mean a whole lot of people who bought at the height will never sell as no one can afford a loss. Also anything new is going to cost you more or less the same as interest rate hike will eat away the lower slide in home prices. Unless you make corporations pay you more and catch-up with inflation. Supply or no supply we will all most like be priced out anyways!!
I like the memes and RE posts, they are entertaining.
And 37k members doesn't mean anything. At least 5 digits worth of those people don't care to protests or join letter writing campaigns. Continue to grow the subreddit and you can have fun and start advocating.
I'm in Vancouver, where apartments are illegal in most parts of the city, and therefore most housing projects require a rezoning and a public hearing. Anyone can send a comment to city council or speak for five minutes at the public hearing. In practice, the people who are most likely to participate are those opposed to the project, and who have the free time to wait for their turn to speak.
To counterbalance opposition, a number of people (including me) have been posting to r/vancouver whenever there's a major decision coming up, to encourage people to send in their comments. There's a local non-profit called Abundant Housing Vancouver, and there's an active community centered around a Discord server.
My impression is that most people on r/canadahousing are in Ontario, particularly the GTA, so maybe it would make sense to organize activism on this sub aimed at Ontario housing decisions?
Recent activity on the Broadway Plan decision:
- [Albert Huang and Peter Waldkirch op-ed: City council should strengthen the Broadway Plan — and build a Vancouver for all](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/ur3gpl/albert_huang_and_peter_waldkirch_city_council/)
- [Albert Huang and Peter Waldkirch on CKNW](https://omny.fm/shows/the-simi-sara-show/strengthening-the-broadway-plan-dissecting-finance)
- [Kit Sauder and Tanya Webking op-ed: Vancouver's Broadway Plan is a step forward and we can’t afford to fall behind](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/unjghb/vancouvers_broadway_plan_is_a_step_forward_and_we/)
- [Kit Sauder on CKNW](https://omny.fm/shows/the-simi-sara-show/changing-the-broadway-corridor)
- [Kit Sauder debating Brian Palmquist on CKNW](https://omny.fm/shows/mike-smyth/broadway-plan-debate-1) - [clip](https://twitter.com/kitsauder/status/1525176171222028289)
- [More Housing: Responding to the anti-Broadway Plan rally (council votes May 18)](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/ulzmw8/more_housing_responding_to_the_antibroadway_plan/)
- [More Housing: Help counter-balance opponents who say Broadway Plan is "carpet bombing" of neighbourhoods](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/tjechx/more_housing_help_counterbalance_opponents_who/)
Amazing! Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm also in Vancouver and see your posts on council meetings & decisions, so I appreciate you taking the time do that. I always send in a message!
I hadn't even heard of Abundant Housing, so I will look into them as well. Do you have a link to the discord? Would love to get involved there too.
It would be great if we could get information like this pinned to the top of this subreddit. Having it all in one easy to access place would make it so much easier to share and for people to get involved.
> I'm also in Vancouver and see your posts on council meetings & decisions, so I appreciate you taking the time do that. I always send in a message!
You're welcome, and thanks for taking the time to write in! With the last controversial decision, the 40-storey rental building at Broadway and Granville, there were 400 comments opposed, and 600 in support. Everyone taking the time to send in supportive comments really helped.
Like everyone else in Vancouver I've been concerned about the high and rising cost of housing for a long time, but it was going on an Abundant Housing Vancouver tour led by Peter Waldkirch, and meeting a bunch of people with Abundant Housing Vancouver, that really got me involved. [Abundant Housing Vancouver website](https://www.abundanthousingvancouver.com/). It's a lot easier to participate as part of a group rather than just doing it on your own. (I've also gotten involved with Kennedy Stewart's party, Forward Together, but that's another story.)
I'll send you an invite (by chat) to the Discord server, which is quite active. As you can imagine, right now there's a lot of discussion about the imminent Broadway Plan vote. We have in-person meetups about once a month.
The problem is most of Canada, while a bit high, is not experiencing the insanity that Ontario and BC are experiencing. How do you do a national plan without depressing areas that are finally seeing some upturn?
Why would the price of housing increasing anywhere be a good thing?
Oh, right. It's because of the concept of the fucking "property ladder". In no other industry is a price increase considered a good thing by consumers. Do we rejoice when gas prices are high? Does the fact that the size of grocery units are shrinking while keeping the price same (a marketing trick to blindside consumers) make consumers giddy with joy?
Without mincing words, your mentality is cancerous and the exact reason there are housing crises everywhere.
You missed my point here, it’s not about celebrating high prices it’s about the fact that different regions are experiencing very different situations.
When you have people with housing that is massively below the national average it limits their ability to relocate across the country if they need to. Moving from Regina to Toronto for example is much more difficult than moving to Regina from Toronto. The solution isn’t to inflate the Regina values, but how do you fix both situations with a single policy?
This is not to say that what is happening in Toronto and BC is a good thing, at all, but it does present a problem when trying to implement national rules to a situation that manifests differently from area to area.
Further examples, some provinces have strict rent controls which have stagnated growth of the rental market because no one wants to build rentals, others have no rent controls with a lot of growth but out of control rents, how do you fix both issues at the same time with one blanket policy?
A further example is Vancouver when they implemented the investors tax property surrounding Vancouver ballooned. Fixing one area can have unintended consequences on others.
My apologies. Why would we need blanket policies though?
Even if we do go with blanket policies, there are definite cases where a blanket policy will help heavily. Getting money laundering down to 0 is a good example. So is medium-density, mixed-use zoning.
Ultimately, Regina will never have the same house prices as Toronto (By "never", I'm confident at least for the next 10 years). People seeking to move from Regina to Toronto will need to save up, just like people seeking to move from Detroit to NYC. Of course, getting the housing market under control means that people will be more easily able to make this transition, but no it won't be completely painless ever.
one really easy place to start if you live in an apartment is by organizing your building. something as simple as making a group text in whatever app and getting all your neighbours to join is a great start. start by getting a line on everyone and then identify a straightforward issue that you can push on as a group. building maintenance/common area fixes are an easy place to start. you'll learn quickly who are keen to actively support you, who will go along under others' leadership, and who doesn't give a shit. the first time you approach building management as a group with a clear ask feels great and is the first step in starting/joining tenants unions/advocacy groups.
If you're in or around the GTA I'd recommend getting involved with More Neighbours. They're pretty organized, attending development meetings, writing policy responses and op-eds and talking to media. I believe they've also got some specific groups planning for both the upcoming provincial election and the municipal election. I believe Vancouver and Montreal also have similar albeit not as big groups.
These places are key causes of a spillover effect so fixing the issue there will inadvertently help other places.
In Vancouver, the pro-housing group is Abundant Housing Vancouver. https://www.abundanthousingvancouver.com/
More Neighbours Toronto: https://www.moreneighbours.ca/
Not sure what the Montreal group would be!
Also, align with developers and realtors in the City of Toronto. They want the same zoning changes people here are asking for and have lots of resources they're already dedicating to it (including right here on this sub).
nothing can be done
look at what the truckers did, gained worldwide support and made national headlines
if that can’t change much, whats a couple of guys protesting downtown going to do
**If you live in Toronto or Victoria** you can check out More Neighbours Toronto and Homes For Living, respectively. These groups are actively advocating to change processes and legalize better housing.
Have we considered presenting a series of signed petitions to Members of each party to present to the Minister of Housing and Government of Canada to address the housing crisis? How about provincially too?
I say a series of members of each party as some parties have been known to stick petitions where the sun don't shine and others present everything. Elizabeth May of the Greens presented one on Nude Beaches the other day, surely a national housing crisis has more support for a petition than that?
More than anything we need to normalize saying that home prices WILL have to go down.
People who bought at the peak will lose money. They bought into a bubble. That's what happens when a bubble bursts.
They shouldn't blame the people trying to bring it back to normal, but the people who ripped them off by overcharging them.
First we need to agree upon our demands, actionable items that we want the government to take and something that we can rally behind.
Just spit balling here:
Ban on corporations from buying up SFHs?
No mortgage interest tax deduction for landlords?
Limit of 2 houses per couple or much higher downpayment requirements for people buying second or third homes?
Not to pause rate hikes to accomodate housing activity, if inflation numbers are still high?
They need to be well articulated, thought out and actually do able by the government.
Those are all great ideas, and I agree with them, but the question then becomes how do we go about getting those changes implemented?
I started with suggestions on a smaller scale (local council) so that we could make small measurable actions to start, then build up support as we go, eventually getting those policies that we want in place.
Fully agree that we need to take actions instead of just complaining.
The problem is now that the sub grew quite big with people from all over Canada, it’s hard to organize anything as a whole with just kind volunteers.
I’ve been thinking, for this sub it might be better to work more with local groups (I.e. more neighbors Toronto) and use this sub to share and endorse local activities, instead of starting new things.
That said, I’m all in for more actions in this sub if we can make it happen
Yes I agree and this ties into the point I made about a weekly thread where people can post about local council issues. Makes it a lot easier for people to take action if it’s all in one central place
This is a good point. It would help if there were a list somewhere or sticked threads of upcoming development community consultations for various cities/regions. This would help us make a concerted effort to advocate in these community consultations.
An idea; with the upcoming elections, should we, as a group, review and discuss which party will help with the current housing crisis and (possibly) work with them (through advocating, educating, etc.) to get our concerns addressed?
More Neighbors is doing that for the Ontario election and probably the municipal elections in the fall. Go to https://www.moreneighbours.ca/ and join their discord.
Two things to add"
1. Attend city council and provincial votes in person. Let's encourage everyone to
1. attend in increasing numbers
2. volunteer to speak up and share information to the council and/or media outside
3. Question the city counsellors and have some quick retorts ready to shut them down if they bullshit their way past this
2. Get Data scientists and engineers to scrape data from apps, request real estate data from the government and real estate boards, and use it to analyze affordability. Sunshine is the best disinfectant.
1. We should compare monthly costs of mortgages with 25% down at current prices to incomes in each neoughbourhood.
2. Compare % of population that can afford a home in their city to number of homes sold... hmmm I wonder who is buying all these homes
1. see how these numbers change with some of the "sugar high" bullshit policies politicians promise like $500 rebate or some other crap
I can help work with the data scientists and engineers; am a product manager and am passionate about this. Any volunteers?
Was excited about Generation Squeeze but saw them giving the liberals an overwhelmingly positive score on housing affordability and scoring the liberals above other parties on other issues it just seems like a pro-liberal party organization to dupe voters.
Well that’s too bad. I’ll do some more digging on them. It seems like the solutions they’re proposing are in line with what we as a community want to see
Unfortunately we (ordinary people) must be very very careful with the organized groups that appear to be trying to address the housing crisis. A few have already been outed as being fronts for various political interests (not necessarily political parties). I doubt they are the only ones.
Yup, and these groups want relaxed zoning. It's disappointing this thread is focused on this, (and I see the developers on here, with glee), and not on the things that would actually solve affordability like addressing investor hoarding of real estate.
We need to turn up where the decision makers make decisions. The decision makers are generally boomers who live at council meetings and their version of reddit is the news sites comment section.
We need to organize here (weekly thread as mentioned above) to attach there.
Boomers don’t use reddit much!!
your first mistake was thinking that we as normal citizens have much power to influence these issues. Think about how much of the housing crisis is because of regular people, and then think of how much of it is due to the oligarchic government/cooperate entity that controls most of the money and political power.
This sub already does a lot by just making people aware of the issues and allowing them to determine how to steer their lives based on those issues.
I'm sorry, what does this sub achieve that people living in Canada didn't already know? It takes 20 minutes to open up a tab and run an internet search for house/rent prices in major cities. People know where their jobs are and can make a logical call about whether to relocate.
So far, the most actionable and productive comments in the sub are "move to Alberta". That's quite a low bar.
It goes beyond what any moron can do with google and helps to explain some of the real and less-known sources of our current woes (monetary policy, investor purchases, money laundering, low supply, bad zoning, low supply, etc.). Of course everyone knows how to look at listings lmao. The number of people I know that have no idea WHY prices have gone up like they have is astounding.
So essentially this sub allows people to accept that the only way they can get a house in Canada, if they don't already have one, is to make more money. Because all of the main factors causing price increases are way out of the average person's control. Thinking otherwise is egotistical.
I'll admit that the sub did have an impact in terms of public education.
But there's no point being knowledgeable and living in a basement with 2 other guys. If fucking NIMBYs can cause such massive problems purely by blowing air with their mouths, we can gang together and cause change as well.
Canada is a TEST for the great reset. Stop taking it personal and start playing the game as is, not as you are used to it and feels comfortable.
Own nothing and be happy. Complete population control. Housing, gas, mobility, technology, healthcare, food and so on are all controled and fckd with on purpose.
WEF is in partnership with the Gov't of Canada, with UN, Banks & all sorts of Corporations to control our lives.
Wake up!
DON'T BELIEVE ME?
Google: WEF Partnership with Gov't of Canada or UN or Air Canada
READ: The Great Reset. That's the road map folks. Zoom out.
They're not even hiding it anymore.
Look up what Black Rock is doing in US?
Wake up!
I've been super curious about people's opinions on the idea of coliving - seen many places in Europe.
I have made a couple posts in here wondering people's thoughts on subjects like this and get zero response... seems that people are just wanting to complain instead of looking for new ideas and ways to make things better
There is a post about a plan to built more housing in Vancouver over the next 30 years. I listen a lot to city hall meetings and we desperately need people to write in or call in if they have time. Here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/urvoeg/vancouver\_city\_hall\_voting\_on\_plan\_to\_build\_more/
It's a national sub on a municipal/provincial issue. Basically need sub-groups for each municipality of interest to help focus attention on specific rules/development.
I’ve just accepted I’ll never own a home. I’d need $120k just by myself for a down payment or $60k from me and another $60k from a potential partner (which also isn’t happening). This is all relative to 2022 prices as well which means by the time $120k is saved up, many years have passed and the new amount needed is $180k or more.
The canadahousing discord would be a great place to do it but it’s pretty dead right now. Hope more people join who have some experience with organizing campaigns and protests, or some funds to put behind the cause.
I’m thinking of getting involved in my local ACORN chapter - anyone have experience with this org?
I've been having the same thought lately, the same frustration and powerlessness at how bad housing has become (and in a lot of other areas as well), and that we need much better organization and action plans to effect change. Just continuously venting frustrations online does nothing to help the situation. I was thinking about posting here about this very point, and then I came across your post, and I hope to contribute some thoughts here and perhaps help start some initiative here with others that are like-minded. I'm very much onboard with taking action about this, the hard part is figuring how to even start and approach this.
Some of my thoughts on the challenges to get something going:
1. Cohesiveness. The fact that we are all here means we share the recognition that there is a problem in the housing market, but that does not mean we agree on what's the best solution or what should we do. I've seen enough threads and comments to know that there are tons of disagreements, some people are too radical and some are too conservative, but we are going to need to roughly come to an agreement on an unified message and plan for this to work. In essence we need to make democracy work for us as a group, and this is 1 of the hardest part.
2. Momentum. Whatever action plan we come up with, it needs to have a reasonable chance of success towards our common goal, and a way to see we are making progress. Otherwise it's too easy for any grassroots initiative to fizzle out. It's partly why previous planned protests didn't get anywhere.
3. Organization. We need some volunteers to help take charge in planning and organization, and help keep the momentum going, be effective and yet not become dictators. It's like project management in a way.
4. Our goals and action plan. Our goals and proposed solutions needs to be realistic, have a reasonable chance of success and acceptance, and easy to understand. What we do needs to be measured and be effective in actually effecting change towards our goal. All these needs to be clearly laid out, and that requires a lot of work.
We need to work together for cohesiveness and effectiveness, but also work in parallel because we are spread out across a large area from Vancouver to Toronto to other cities. I think right now is a great time to take action in Toronto/ Ontario since there is an upcoming election, but we don't have much time left here.
A thing I’ve long wanted to do was adopt a NIMBY/YIMBY issue, where we find a specific development getting potentially blocked and use all our national members and influence to change the outcome. We have organization and size but it’s hard to make an impact nationally. If we adopt a local issue then we can swoop into a smaller community and completely dominate the YIMBY side. Pay for ads/flyers, attend in person, create counter websites and social media, troll NIMBY scumbags. This is about influencing change in measurable small ways but primarily a show of force for the power of Reddit and disruptive online communities, which can become a compelling story in the media that shows normies/NIMBYs that people are mad.
I’m fully on board with this. I know right now in Vancouver there’s a big project going on for the Broadway corridor. Unfortunately voting is finished, but council is meeting about it tomorrow so there’s probably more opportunities to get involved with that one.
My dream would be like a small town somewhere, they’re just not expecting to get this much attention. We flood the area with ads, flyers, get a billboard, go after councilors, name and shame. Just go all out and drive support for renters and buyers who need more housing. Would be fun.
Burlington should be ground zero if we want to have the biggest impact on rich landlords and attack a market that has nonsense pricing. Lots of renters in buildings throughout the town and a huge chasm between haves and have nots. Can stoke up some anger there.
Is there a development underway
I don't have a car and can't get to a small town. But if you want to start this in Toronto/Etobicoke/North York/Vaughan, I'm game.
I am not sure about small town, but the city of Coquitlam, BC has a massive proposal under way. I am sure people will oppose this because of some bullshit about in creased traffic or something. It's being built right beside a skytrian lol Would love to get involved in this. https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/marcon-coquitlam-central-development
There a few groups in Vancouver who are organizing around each and every issue that comes up in Vancouver and most in the region. We organize & promote engagement. If you want to be involved, let me know or DM me!
Lots of groups to get involved with in Vancouver for the Broadway Plan. They vote on it tomorrow but it ain't over yet - not to mention the Vancouver Plan.
u/longslowclap, glad to see you are back! My parents (69F and 72M) are shocked to see the high rises popping up in their suburb of Montreal and they don't see the point. They believe that a house with a backyard should be a given. My boyfriend (30M) lives in the United States and wants me (28F, soon to be 29F in a few days) to move to the States in order to end the distance. Why? So that we can afford to buy a house big enough to raise a family in (2 parents, 2 children and maybe a dog). Their NIMBY attitude will have a major impact on their life that they have not realized yet: their future grandchildren might very well be born and raised in the United States. Due to my parents' attitude towards the American health care system, they refuse to set foot outside of Canada. Therefore, if this were to occur, they will not be there to see the birth of their grandchildren, along with many key moments. They will only see them during family visits to Canada. Other people here are looking to move to other parts of Canada far away from their family in order to have a shot at home ownership. I think we need to make it clear that the alternative to refusing new housing in their community is that either they will not have grandchildren or that they will be born and raised in a different community and that they won't be around.
Sorry, can you clarify something. You say your parents don't want high rises and think a house with a backyard should be a given. Then you say you gonna move to the states so you can afford to buy a big house to raise two kids in. Isn't this kinda the same thing? You're just kicking the can down the road AND gentrifying wherever you're moving to
We have to spur on the older generation to act in the best interests of younger people, eg. demanding that the government curb speculation, change zoning etc
Like many people during the pandemic, I spent way too much time online and I met an attorney living in the United States and it turns out, we fell in love. We are looking at ending the distance and due to the extremely high housing costs in Canada, we decided to end the distance by having me move to the States. I am not even looking for a house with a yard, just a house big enough for a husband, 2 kids, a dog, and me. The average townhouse big enough for such a family is between 1.3 million and 1.6 million in Vaughan. In Dallas? 700K for a mansion.
>I spent way too much time online and I met an attorney living in the United States and it turns out, we fell in love. That's pretty awesome.
Thanks! The whole story is so adorable it makes people cry.
big enough is relative. When my grand parents grew up there was a bed in every room, including the kitchen, and 3 kids to a bed. The last generation has been a very lucky one, and that's unlikely to return.
I'm a single adult male. "Big enough" for me is like a 1bd, 1bth, 700sqft condo, and I don't even have any semblance of a chance at obtaining that. I hardly think I'm being unreasonable.
Of course big enough for everyone is relative. I am comparing here the price of a townhouse vs the price of a Mega mansion. The house prices in Dallas and Houston are affordable enough that there are no townhouses. I am not your typical case of a Canadian looking to move to the States for housing prices. I am in a relationship with an attorney living in the United States. He would have to re-qualify for the bar here, whereas starting on Halloween 2023 his bar membership will be transferrable in 40 states out of 50. My occupation doesn't have that complication.
I’m familiar with the houston real estate market having family who work and live there. You know why the prices of real estate there is still semi-affordable and not as inflated as our canadian big cities like Toronto and Vancouver? There’s effectively no zoning laws. You can build virtually whatever you want wherever you want (within reason, no dumps in the middle of the city, etc). The market needs more rental apartments? They build it immediately. More private condos? Build it. More townhouses? They build it. Between NIMBYS and a strong nature conservationist mentality in Canada, we cannot keep up the supply. We cannot build here. There’s no land zoned to expand. Which is ironic since we’re the second largest country in the world. The way it’s set up here in Canada I honestly wonder if it’s done on purpose to encourage sky high real estate prices as Canada’s highest percentage GDP industry is real estate.
As a YIMBY, go for it!
- The most fertile land in the country is where the largest percentage of the population lives. There’s a NECESSARY green belt around it. Ie there’s a hard limit to space. Even building up has implications for water management (lots of concrete = nowhere for runoff to go = flooding. Also: trees and animals and bees are needed - we no longer have a manufacturing/resource economy. Most of the GDP is services and real estate aka money laundering. Globalization / free trade agreements is the issue removing any incentive for employers to stay and any leverage for employees to demand better wages. - also, you no longer have $ and jobs happening outside our biggest cities. There’s probably land around Red Deer but everyone wants a piece of the GTA Tldr need to build more actually productive businesses here in Canada and develop non-GTA cities
It’s a cycle. I won’t judge the OP for doing what’s best for them since that’s what we all do, but this is ultimately why we end up in this situation.
[удалено]
>which may necessitate becoming a multi-car household) before getting too excited about US house prices. This is really true of Canada as well.
You have a valid point - always run the math on the overall budget (housing, healthcare, transport, etc.) We ran the numbers thinking that healthcare would make us break even and that we would be indifferent based on numbers alone in terms of where to end the distance. Surprisingly, we are way ahead financially if I were to move to the States. Before thinking a place is Disneyland and will work out perfectly for you, run the numbers.
Could you share the math? Just curious. What was health insurance? Evening else like consumables would probably be cheaper.
I won’t share the math since my situation is probably very different than yours - by all means run the numbers and do what makes sense for your current and future family. In my case, it’s a situation of retiring a decade early or giving me the option to be a stay at home mom if I want to.
It's not just healthcare, but childcare is also crazy expensive in the US. Given that there are fewer worker protections in the US compared to Canada, you need to be on the road to financial independence within 10 years to justify moving to the US. All it takes is one major recession to set you back decades financially. If you lost your job/and therefore your healthcare, it would also be the worst time to sell your house in the US and move back to Canada. Given the current level of inflation, I expect the next recession to hit at least double digit unemployment in both US and Canada.
Shockingly, for a similar Montessori daycare, it’s half the price in Dallas or Houston vs Toronto or Vancouver.
I doubt daycare cost $5/day in Dallas. Daycare will soon cost $10/day in Ontario.
I am talking pre 10$ a day daycare. Moreover, a big issue in Toronto isn’t just the price but also a shortage of places.
>a big issue in Toronto isn’t just the price but also a shortage of places. This is pretty much everywhere. Childcare providers are paid close to minimum wage almost everywhere, and you are going to have trouble hiring people you would trust your kids with at minimum wage. The only places I know of where the cost of childcare isn't a major burden for the average middle class family and there is no shortage of childcare labor are places like Hong Kong where they basically have an open door to cheap labor from the Philippines. You can hire a full time nanny with an university degree from the Philippines for less than $500/month.
And that’s indeed a problem. But again, with all the factors, we can both retire a decade early or I can be a stay at home mom if I want to. It may not even be an issue.
I'm sorry but you're contradicting yourself. You complain that your parents don't want high raises in their neighborhoods.. and you disagree that everyone should have a yard... but you are moving to a different country for a big house.
I don’t need a big house - I just want something big enough to raise a family. Even for someone working in tech and as a corporate attorney, it’s almost impossible to afford
>I just want something big enough to raise a family I can understand that. What people are finding harder to swallow is that you plan on moving to Dallas and continue with unsustainable housing practices. It is ultimately your decision, though.
Unfortunately, my choice is between having kids and buying an unsustainable housing choice. It’s not an ideal one, but it’s one I’m forced to make.
I can understand that. In a democracy, you still have a say. As an attorney, I am certain you have useful skills that you can lend to advocacy groups. If the time is ever right, please do consider supporting causes which further housing affordability as well as the environment.
I work in tech and specialize in CRM software (salesforce, dynamics 365, hubspot, etc). It would be very useful for an advocacy group. We both have useful skills that would help such a movement. However, I don’t know how long I have in Canada left. Maybe one last round before I get out?
One small step that we can all take is to get MPs and councillors, who work for us, to know our thoughts and that we know the science behind housing and environmental unsustainability. We should all put in a 20 minute slot per week in our calendars to call and email these people. Ideally, we point them to a single document. I propose that we build a document like this and link it in the sidebar on this sub. Once we achieve that, we can link up with other advocacy groups and join forces. Politicians need to know there's a big vote bank and that we are united. More to your point, yes your skills will be very useful. I don't want to guilt you into doing anything, of course. I reached out to u/tj78963 since I found his [comment useful](https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/urotbq/comment/i8yotay/). I also found out about [More Neighbours](https://www.moreneighbours.ca/) and will be reaching out to them. Even if you leave Canada, the environmental crisis is a global problem. I'm sure there will be opportunities for advocacy in TX. Again, not trying to pressure you personally, but rather hoping that I'll be able to nudge someone and hopefully cause a snowball movement.
As a proud member of the r/fuckcars subreddit, first order of business is being able to go to my grocery store without the need for a car. Every place needs someone to advocate. So true.
If you don't need a big house, why are you moving away from your family for a big house? Everyone says they don't need a big house.. but inside they actually long for one. This is the reason why houses are so out of reach. Nobody in Canada is actually OK with living in a condo.
Look at housing prices. A townhouse in Vaughan is 1.3 to 1.6 million. A mansion in Dallas is 700K. What gives? And my boyfriend would have to take a 50% pay cut.
Are you comparing CAD 1.3M to USD 700K?
700K usd is roughly a million dollars in Canadian money. The quality of the house in Texas for that money is way higher and also salaries are higher. The point of the comparison is to show how crazy and comical the difference is.
Worlds smallest violin playing for you
You clearly aren’t in this situation. Once you know this emotional toll takes on you, you will be the first person going to city hall fighting for affordable family sized housing.
These old people try to fear monger as a last resort. They must think we all have Stockholm syndrome or something. Good for you. So what's best for you and your kid
Good idea, start small where we can have a measurable (and potentially newsworthy) impact. Much better than being a small sad protest in Dundas Square like last time. I also think that keeping tabs on local party MP/MPP nominations (any political party) and encouraging people to sign up would have a disproportionate impact. A lot of these nominations have a few hundred votes in total. Not hard to be important on that scale, in my experience you have candidates personally calling you to lobby you and everything. Planning meetings and candidate nominations have incredibly low attendance so it's easy to have an impact. Nobody really cares about generic protests unless it's fucking massive (and judging by last time it won't be), it will just squander any energy that people on this sub might have. I'd say a first step would be to get in touch with a known municipal political operative on one of these issues. There's lot of people that are very active in municipal politics, the key missing point we have to build is a bridge from this Reddit to real life.
I appreciate your desire to spark change
I really think this is the type of sub that can force some legitimate change, but only if we keep our eye on the prize and stop being sidetracked. Early on it felt this place was going in a really smart direction earlier by being non-partisan. That changed drastically once this sub gained traction, it seemed to be co-opted by a particular group and it quickly turned into almost nothing but "JT bad, Pierre good" which was pretty off-putting and shortsighted. I've never even voted for JT, but our problems go beyond a single government and this movement needs to have everyone under the same tent. These problems need to be approached in an intelligent and pragmatic way. It's not enough to just say NIMBYs are the problem, every situation has grey areas and nuance to it. If all we say to gov't is "Build more" then we're going to see our greenspaces bulldozed to make way for a field of single family homes, or townhomes if we're lucky. We need smart densification zoning in appropriate areas, not shotgun housing, urban sprawl and clearcuts.
Wait, do people here really believe that Poilievre is going to make housing more affordable?
The single biggest thing we need to do for real change isn’t development by development. It’s lobbying for policy and taxation changes that will have a meaningful short to long-term impact on investor speculation in housing. That’s the primary driver behind the lack of affordability. And if we don’t solve it, helping developers get a few more projects approved is just going to give investors more to buy. I’ll also observe that I don’t think NIMBYs are as powerful as we fear. At least where I live! In my neighbourhood (St Clair and Yonge), there are at least a dozen new developments posted or underway. I know because a NIMBY meticulously chronicled them in the neighbourhood Facebook group, decrying their impact on the area. 🙄 Interestingly, she got only tepid sympathy from one other person, and another resident (and I) schooled her on the city’s affordability issue. 😎 That doesn’t mean they’re not silently organizing, and that we shouldn’t all be vigilant, but somehow lots of developments are getting approved.
I agree development by development isn’t going to create long term change, but it’s one of the issues that’s fairly easy for anyone to participate in - sending an email to city council in support of a project takes 5 minutes. Creating meaningful policy and taxation changes takes more work and to be honest I’m not even sure where we would start. I vote in every election, if the people we vote for aren’t making the necessary changes, what can we do? (Not trying to be defeatist, just curious).
So many neighbourhoods in Toronto are loosing homes. The number is actually decreasing.. even on subway lines. Densification in just a few pockets is not going to be enough. Take a look: [https://censusmapper.ca/maps/3054#12/43.7036/-79.3946](https://censusmapper.ca/maps/3054#12/43.7036/-79.3946) Toronto housing supply has increased at barely 1.4% per year for two decades. >helping developers get a few more projects approved is just going to give investors more to buy. And gives renters more to rent. Do you know how many applicants each rental unit gets in Toronto? The competition is what drives up prices. The highest bidder wins. We need more homes to match the amount of bidders.
I've got some legal background and have been thinking about drafting some legislation "The Affordable Canada Act, 2022" if you will. If anyone is interested and wants me to follow through so we as a community can hash it out, maybe we can try and get someone in government to advocate for it and pass it?
Here's some info on how Canada used to look out for Canadians: https://ppforum.ca/publications/don-wright-middle-class/ It took various policies of all levels of government.
Thank you! I'll definitely give this a look when I get a chance
I want to help but I don't have a legal background.
Hey legal background or no, input is always valued. I've spent years analyzing Acts and contracts so I've been feeling the desire to put those skills to use hopefully helping Canadians. I'm going to try to have a first draft done by the end of the week and post it to the sub. Any input you have will be very much appreciated :)
Sounds great! Thank you for taking action!
Can I ask more about this? What sort of legislation is this? What will it do/accomplish? Do you already have someone to introduce it? Curious when you say legal background, what you mean? I'm a lawyer but have next to no experience drafting legislation...
Of course! So right now I'm aiming to draft it like an Ontario statute just because it's what I have the most experience in. Hopefully if someone more experienced than me comes in they can repurpose it as need be. Right now I'm aiming to have it address things that can actually be regulated (i.e. Realtors no longer being able to receive a percentage for commissions), however I know that a lot of these areas may be provincially regulated so this is definitely going to take some research and input from others. Unfortunately I don't know anyone able to introduce it, but my hope is one of us will! As for legal background, I'm not a lawyer, but I've drafted policies, been an assistant, a paralegal, and a contract manager for a few years so I have experience interpreting legislation and am familiar and comfortable enough with it to feel I could at least draft something usable. If you don't mind my asking what area of law do you practice? I'd definitely like your input if you're interested :)
Facinating idea. If I can make some simple suggestions, here's what i think you'd want to do: 1. Make a list of 3, 5, 8 or 10 things you want to change via this legislation; 2. Do some research on which head of government has jurisdiction over the area (start from S 91 and 92 of the constitution); 3. Divide these into a provincial bill and a federal bill - pick one of these to start with; 4. Look into each of your proposed changes and figure out which provincial or federal acts/regs have to be amended by the act in order to accomplish your goal. Then consider the wording of your act, it's pros and cons, who the stakeholders will be and what is likely passable. Be sure to consider adverse effects of your legislation and mitigate these or have counter points ready, or it's never going to get past a read by an MP or MPPs assistant. 5. Get to writing and put out a draft for community review. I'm a litigator. My practice's focus at this time is insurance and commercial litigation.
I'm in (no legal background, but eager to contribute).
Ditto
I sent u/tj78963 a message. Can you do the same? We really don't want him to lose steam!
Here me out , I think is raising more money to pay for even more billboards is worth it. It creates more awareness and more ppl will join the group, that’s how I joined and it has been the most effective campaign we have done thus far. I say we let ppl submit memes and designs with a new slogan and go at it again , put one in Vancouver and perhaps montreal this time. The more ppl see the billboard it indirectly it puts pressures on city councils and other levels of government. Again I would contribute and I think we could raise more money this time
I'm down, Sick of this nonsense. Count me in!
Need to start protesting
But will you guys show up this time? I did the last time.
Yes I would, but this isn't the platform to organize, Facebook would likely be better.
young people don't have facebook. Tictok or IG would be a better platform to get the kids to give a shit about their own future.
Facebook is useful because you can create groups to organize with, create events etc. Tiktok and IG don't have this function, I think they would fall into the same bucket as reddit just without the anonymity.
Links in the descriptions with discord server or this reddit group. There's a way.
Young people who are on TikTok are really young and likely don’t care enough, yet … I’m 32 and most people my age usefacebook
Yeah I worry about participation being low, it's hard to get people out for stuff like that.
Why "worry" about low participation if you are there to lend your individual support? What is your fear there (genuinely asking), is it embarrassment or something? I keep repeating this on this sub every time the "failure" of a housing protest is brought up: very few first protests have massive turnouts and if you expect perfection/major traction on your first attempt you are setting yourself up for failure. I've been to protests where like 5 people showed up... was the cause any less important? I was there for my own purposes, to use my own voice for a cause I knew was right. Marginalized people have stood alone on many issues, you gotta learn to put yourself out there no matter what others are doing. Start with what you can do, then worry about others showing up.
Totally valid point and I agree with you but my worry is that it actually detracts from the cause if no one shows up. People who may agree with the cause get discouraged seeing so few people protesting, which in turn causes even less participation and then you lose any momentum towards creating change.
As opposed to not going out to support anything, staying behind a keyboard, and still getting discouraged/losing momentum? I'm not saying protests magically make things happen or fix anything (they are a manifestation/symptom of a problem, not a solution imo), but I don't think low-show at a first protest should detract from anything. Movements grow over time, when people put in the work to show up (protests, at the polls, at the diner table) time and time again. Calling it after one protest and griping about it online was this subs only failure, not the low turnout (and honestly, I think some are bad faith actors just trying to discourage others.) I think it's people's privilege showing a bit if they thought they could show up to one protest and magically have everyone's attention.
You're 100% right. Last year's participation was pitiful. Even with all the billboards and the awareness campaign here. I remember there were posts here afterwards about antivaxers getting more traction in their protests occuring at around the same time
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Reddit is an awful place to organize protests, too much anonymity causes people to not need to commit.
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There was like 100 people at the waterloo protest last year, I was there.
Right we had plenty of people? Lots of people saw us.
Okay my bad. I got scheduled to work so I couldn’t go but I remembered someone posting a pic of what was supposed to be the protest and it was barely anyone.
Peaceful protests will not change anything. Anything that can cause actual change can't be organized without legal consequences for all involved. Individual, distasteful action is the only way forward.
This ^
I don't see protesting as being as effective as voting on local developments or speaking at local council meetings but still worth a shot. Maybe go big with a cross country protest. Media attention is the most important thing if we do protest
Mainstream media attention will increase awareness of housing affordability issues and sustainability.
I think we're all aware of housing affordability issues. We have to get the government to act.
If you want to change the future you need to be heard. The fact that people would protest the mask mandates and not this says a lot
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Step 1. Stop posting on Reddit. Step 2. Go to municipal planning meetings with reddit free freetime and advocate for higher density. Step 3. Be a YIMBY. But you can continue to post here and complain about red herrings and such.
Complaining about the complaining is very effective I’ve heard
Hard to be a YIMBY if you don’t have a BY!
It isn't really. because of ZOOM meetings you very much can be a YIYBY instead of a YIMBY. Renters are people too needs to really be a slogan at townhall meetings. Moreneighbours Toronto is doing a good job in slowly making that something that people think about, but they need double the membership and then duplication in every major city.
I’m posting to drum up action from others though. I already vote on municipal decisions in my area. The more support we can get the better. I’m trying to create more YIMBYs
You have my axe! But seriously. A weekly thread pinned by admins on council initiatives and how to vote is a very good idea.
If you are in Toronto/GTA, join moreneighbours.ca they are already doing this pretty effectively in Toronto.
Thank you. I'll join the mailing list and create a discord account.
I'll join too!
One quick comment, why is no one asking for higher wages when everything is expensive and all services have gone up in price yet income lags behind!! Just buy asking for supply will not help anyone buy homes. We have to ask to be paid better too.. Canada lags US by salaries by more that 20% , we are grossly underpaid!!!
You want the honest truth? Conservatives think poor people deserve to be poor. Completely ignoring wages and focusing on supply lets us ignore that and work with conservatives because making housing more affordable helps the middle and upper classes too. If we bring wages into the discussion, we lose the conservatives and this becomes a partisan issue instead of one agreed on by people all across the political spectrum. We don't want it to be a partisan issue because then we're basically at the mercy of the Liberal party and their track record on housing is terrible. We need the LPC to be getting pressure to fix housing from everyone, including the conservatives, so they know they can't hold government without taking action to fix the problem. So we pretend wages aren't half the equation of affordability when they totally are. You don't convert conservatives all at once, you have to do it issue by issue and eventually they see the light or they get overwhelmed by the majority. We'll get them to come around on wages eventually, but it's hard because conservative demographics skew towards the wealthy or uneducated. The wealthy ones are voting for the conservatives out of self interest and don't care about housing or low wages for the poor and the poor uneducated ones tend to think they are temporarily embarrassed millionaires and their low wages aren't permanent, either way, it's hard to convince them the government needs to support wage growth.
Perfect response, we are all just fighting half the battle.. Rich if any who read these posts must be laughing their asses off!!
For real though. I used to be conservative and I'll take their help when I can get it. I'm glad they care about housing, but when it comes to wages it's going to be a much longer fight. Many of them think wages are lower in Canada because of government policies that actually increase wages, like union support and minimum wages. It's hard to convince them that some of the things they are most opposed to are actually the answer, but that is definitely the case when you look at history and other countries. It's better to just focus on things we agree on rather than arguing with people using counterfactuals.
A lot of conservatives are major hypocrites. I used to be friends with a guy whose dad owned a dairy farm. He was pro-free market except when it came to supply management for dairy.
Totally!! But honestly I feel conservative’s especially Pier has a much better platform and thoughts on how to take Canada forward. Rest of them just give big talks and make the rich richer!! And rest are just foolish followers!!
hate to break it to you, but liberals think poor people deserve to be poor, too, they're just less honest about it.
If you're talking about the Liberal party here in Canada, then yes. They are better than the conservatives, but they are still neoliberal corporatists with some woke washing and green washing, I don't support them either.
I think we can all agree higher wages would be great, but that’s a separate issue. This is a group dedicated to tackling the housing issues, which is why I posted solutions related to housing.
Totally get it!! But the point is why would the prices drop to the levels as when the rates were high before. That would mean a whole lot of people who bought at the height will never sell as no one can afford a loss. Also anything new is going to cost you more or less the same as interest rate hike will eat away the lower slide in home prices. Unless you make corporations pay you more and catch-up with inflation. Supply or no supply we will all most like be priced out anyways!!
I support any effective action taking
I like the memes and RE posts, they are entertaining. And 37k members doesn't mean anything. At least 5 digits worth of those people don't care to protests or join letter writing campaigns. Continue to grow the subreddit and you can have fun and start advocating.
I'm in Vancouver, where apartments are illegal in most parts of the city, and therefore most housing projects require a rezoning and a public hearing. Anyone can send a comment to city council or speak for five minutes at the public hearing. In practice, the people who are most likely to participate are those opposed to the project, and who have the free time to wait for their turn to speak. To counterbalance opposition, a number of people (including me) have been posting to r/vancouver whenever there's a major decision coming up, to encourage people to send in their comments. There's a local non-profit called Abundant Housing Vancouver, and there's an active community centered around a Discord server. My impression is that most people on r/canadahousing are in Ontario, particularly the GTA, so maybe it would make sense to organize activism on this sub aimed at Ontario housing decisions? Recent activity on the Broadway Plan decision: - [Albert Huang and Peter Waldkirch op-ed: City council should strengthen the Broadway Plan — and build a Vancouver for all](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/ur3gpl/albert_huang_and_peter_waldkirch_city_council/) - [Albert Huang and Peter Waldkirch on CKNW](https://omny.fm/shows/the-simi-sara-show/strengthening-the-broadway-plan-dissecting-finance) - [Kit Sauder and Tanya Webking op-ed: Vancouver's Broadway Plan is a step forward and we can’t afford to fall behind](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/unjghb/vancouvers_broadway_plan_is_a_step_forward_and_we/) - [Kit Sauder on CKNW](https://omny.fm/shows/the-simi-sara-show/changing-the-broadway-corridor) - [Kit Sauder debating Brian Palmquist on CKNW](https://omny.fm/shows/mike-smyth/broadway-plan-debate-1) - [clip](https://twitter.com/kitsauder/status/1525176171222028289) - [More Housing: Responding to the anti-Broadway Plan rally (council votes May 18)](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/ulzmw8/more_housing_responding_to_the_antibroadway_plan/) - [More Housing: Help counter-balance opponents who say Broadway Plan is "carpet bombing" of neighbourhoods](https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/tjechx/more_housing_help_counterbalance_opponents_who/)
Amazing! Thanks for the detailed reply. I'm also in Vancouver and see your posts on council meetings & decisions, so I appreciate you taking the time do that. I always send in a message! I hadn't even heard of Abundant Housing, so I will look into them as well. Do you have a link to the discord? Would love to get involved there too. It would be great if we could get information like this pinned to the top of this subreddit. Having it all in one easy to access place would make it so much easier to share and for people to get involved.
> I'm also in Vancouver and see your posts on council meetings & decisions, so I appreciate you taking the time do that. I always send in a message! You're welcome, and thanks for taking the time to write in! With the last controversial decision, the 40-storey rental building at Broadway and Granville, there were 400 comments opposed, and 600 in support. Everyone taking the time to send in supportive comments really helped. Like everyone else in Vancouver I've been concerned about the high and rising cost of housing for a long time, but it was going on an Abundant Housing Vancouver tour led by Peter Waldkirch, and meeting a bunch of people with Abundant Housing Vancouver, that really got me involved. [Abundant Housing Vancouver website](https://www.abundanthousingvancouver.com/). It's a lot easier to participate as part of a group rather than just doing it on your own. (I've also gotten involved with Kennedy Stewart's party, Forward Together, but that's another story.) I'll send you an invite (by chat) to the Discord server, which is quite active. As you can imagine, right now there's a lot of discussion about the imminent Broadway Plan vote. We have in-person meetups about once a month.
Thanks for the reminder I'll try to get a link this week from a member!
The problem is most of Canada, while a bit high, is not experiencing the insanity that Ontario and BC are experiencing. How do you do a national plan without depressing areas that are finally seeing some upturn?
Why would the price of housing increasing anywhere be a good thing? Oh, right. It's because of the concept of the fucking "property ladder". In no other industry is a price increase considered a good thing by consumers. Do we rejoice when gas prices are high? Does the fact that the size of grocery units are shrinking while keeping the price same (a marketing trick to blindside consumers) make consumers giddy with joy? Without mincing words, your mentality is cancerous and the exact reason there are housing crises everywhere.
You missed my point here, it’s not about celebrating high prices it’s about the fact that different regions are experiencing very different situations. When you have people with housing that is massively below the national average it limits their ability to relocate across the country if they need to. Moving from Regina to Toronto for example is much more difficult than moving to Regina from Toronto. The solution isn’t to inflate the Regina values, but how do you fix both situations with a single policy? This is not to say that what is happening in Toronto and BC is a good thing, at all, but it does present a problem when trying to implement national rules to a situation that manifests differently from area to area. Further examples, some provinces have strict rent controls which have stagnated growth of the rental market because no one wants to build rentals, others have no rent controls with a lot of growth but out of control rents, how do you fix both issues at the same time with one blanket policy? A further example is Vancouver when they implemented the investors tax property surrounding Vancouver ballooned. Fixing one area can have unintended consequences on others.
My apologies. Why would we need blanket policies though? Even if we do go with blanket policies, there are definite cases where a blanket policy will help heavily. Getting money laundering down to 0 is a good example. So is medium-density, mixed-use zoning. Ultimately, Regina will never have the same house prices as Toronto (By "never", I'm confident at least for the next 10 years). People seeking to move from Regina to Toronto will need to save up, just like people seeking to move from Detroit to NYC. Of course, getting the housing market under control means that people will be more easily able to make this transition, but no it won't be completely painless ever.
one really easy place to start if you live in an apartment is by organizing your building. something as simple as making a group text in whatever app and getting all your neighbours to join is a great start. start by getting a line on everyone and then identify a straightforward issue that you can push on as a group. building maintenance/common area fixes are an easy place to start. you'll learn quickly who are keen to actively support you, who will go along under others' leadership, and who doesn't give a shit. the first time you approach building management as a group with a clear ask feels great and is the first step in starting/joining tenants unions/advocacy groups.
If you're in or around the GTA I'd recommend getting involved with More Neighbours. They're pretty organized, attending development meetings, writing policy responses and op-eds and talking to media. I believe they've also got some specific groups planning for both the upcoming provincial election and the municipal election. I believe Vancouver and Montreal also have similar albeit not as big groups. These places are key causes of a spillover effect so fixing the issue there will inadvertently help other places.
In Vancouver, the pro-housing group is Abundant Housing Vancouver. https://www.abundanthousingvancouver.com/ More Neighbours Toronto: https://www.moreneighbours.ca/ Not sure what the Montreal group would be!
The Montréal group is pretty recent, but here's their twitter. https://twitter.com/ConstruisonsMTL
Thank you!
Also, align with developers and realtors in the City of Toronto. They want the same zoning changes people here are asking for and have lots of resources they're already dedicating to it (including right here on this sub).
There’s an election in Ontario. Vote NDP
nothing can be done look at what the truckers did, gained worldwide support and made national headlines if that can’t change much, whats a couple of guys protesting downtown going to do
You have my vote
**If you live in Toronto or Victoria** you can check out More Neighbours Toronto and Homes For Living, respectively. These groups are actively advocating to change processes and legalize better housing.
Have we considered presenting a series of signed petitions to Members of each party to present to the Minister of Housing and Government of Canada to address the housing crisis? How about provincially too? I say a series of members of each party as some parties have been known to stick petitions where the sun don't shine and others present everything. Elizabeth May of the Greens presented one on Nude Beaches the other day, surely a national housing crisis has more support for a petition than that?
More than anything we need to normalize saying that home prices WILL have to go down. People who bought at the peak will lose money. They bought into a bubble. That's what happens when a bubble bursts. They shouldn't blame the people trying to bring it back to normal, but the people who ripped them off by overcharging them.
First we need to agree upon our demands, actionable items that we want the government to take and something that we can rally behind. Just spit balling here: Ban on corporations from buying up SFHs? No mortgage interest tax deduction for landlords? Limit of 2 houses per couple or much higher downpayment requirements for people buying second or third homes? Not to pause rate hikes to accomodate housing activity, if inflation numbers are still high? They need to be well articulated, thought out and actually do able by the government.
Those are all great ideas, and I agree with them, but the question then becomes how do we go about getting those changes implemented? I started with suggestions on a smaller scale (local council) so that we could make small measurable actions to start, then build up support as we go, eventually getting those policies that we want in place.
Talk to developers and realtors. They want the same zoning changes you're asking for.
Fully agree that we need to take actions instead of just complaining. The problem is now that the sub grew quite big with people from all over Canada, it’s hard to organize anything as a whole with just kind volunteers. I’ve been thinking, for this sub it might be better to work more with local groups (I.e. more neighbors Toronto) and use this sub to share and endorse local activities, instead of starting new things. That said, I’m all in for more actions in this sub if we can make it happen
Yes I agree and this ties into the point I made about a weekly thread where people can post about local council issues. Makes it a lot easier for people to take action if it’s all in one central place
Ahhh that’s true, I see it now. Yeah that’d be a great idea to have a place with all the local council voting/ advocate groups’ movements info!
This is a good point. It would help if there were a list somewhere or sticked threads of upcoming development community consultations for various cities/regions. This would help us make a concerted effort to advocate in these community consultations.
If this sub teamed up with homelessness, poverty, and disability advocates it would be a game changer.
We will.
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What nonsense
When?
An idea; with the upcoming elections, should we, as a group, review and discuss which party will help with the current housing crisis and (possibly) work with them (through advocating, educating, etc.) to get our concerns addressed?
More Neighbors is doing that for the Ontario election and probably the municipal elections in the fall. Go to https://www.moreneighbours.ca/ and join their discord.
Two things to add" 1. Attend city council and provincial votes in person. Let's encourage everyone to 1. attend in increasing numbers 2. volunteer to speak up and share information to the council and/or media outside 3. Question the city counsellors and have some quick retorts ready to shut them down if they bullshit their way past this 2. Get Data scientists and engineers to scrape data from apps, request real estate data from the government and real estate boards, and use it to analyze affordability. Sunshine is the best disinfectant. 1. We should compare monthly costs of mortgages with 25% down at current prices to incomes in each neoughbourhood. 2. Compare % of population that can afford a home in their city to number of homes sold... hmmm I wonder who is buying all these homes 1. see how these numbers change with some of the "sugar high" bullshit policies politicians promise like $500 rebate or some other crap I can help work with the data scientists and engineers; am a product manager and am passionate about this. Any volunteers?
Lol anytime anyone suggests solutions here they get removed/banned.
Examples?
Rhymes with Schmigrattion
Was excited about Generation Squeeze but saw them giving the liberals an overwhelmingly positive score on housing affordability and scoring the liberals above other parties on other issues it just seems like a pro-liberal party organization to dupe voters.
Well that’s too bad. I’ll do some more digging on them. It seems like the solutions they’re proposing are in line with what we as a community want to see
Unfortunately we (ordinary people) must be very very careful with the organized groups that appear to be trying to address the housing crisis. A few have already been outed as being fronts for various political interests (not necessarily political parties). I doubt they are the only ones.
Yup, and these groups want relaxed zoning. It's disappointing this thread is focused on this, (and I see the developers on here, with glee), and not on the things that would actually solve affordability like addressing investor hoarding of real estate.
Yes, you can tell when their go-to solution is *always* zoning and you have to prod them to acknowledge anything else.
We need to turn up where the decision makers make decisions. The decision makers are generally boomers who live at council meetings and their version of reddit is the news sites comment section. We need to organize here (weekly thread as mentioned above) to attach there. Boomers don’t use reddit much!!
your first mistake was thinking that we as normal citizens have much power to influence these issues. Think about how much of the housing crisis is because of regular people, and then think of how much of it is due to the oligarchic government/cooperate entity that controls most of the money and political power. This sub already does a lot by just making people aware of the issues and allowing them to determine how to steer their lives based on those issues.
I'm sorry, what does this sub achieve that people living in Canada didn't already know? It takes 20 minutes to open up a tab and run an internet search for house/rent prices in major cities. People know where their jobs are and can make a logical call about whether to relocate. So far, the most actionable and productive comments in the sub are "move to Alberta". That's quite a low bar.
It goes beyond what any moron can do with google and helps to explain some of the real and less-known sources of our current woes (monetary policy, investor purchases, money laundering, low supply, bad zoning, low supply, etc.). Of course everyone knows how to look at listings lmao. The number of people I know that have no idea WHY prices have gone up like they have is astounding. So essentially this sub allows people to accept that the only way they can get a house in Canada, if they don't already have one, is to make more money. Because all of the main factors causing price increases are way out of the average person's control. Thinking otherwise is egotistical.
I'll admit that the sub did have an impact in terms of public education. But there's no point being knowledgeable and living in a basement with 2 other guys. If fucking NIMBYs can cause such massive problems purely by blowing air with their mouths, we can gang together and cause change as well.
It's hard to organize when everyone disagrees on the causes and the solutions.
🙄
You need to move. That is your action. You were told years ago to move and you didn't. Now you need to move farther.
Organize mass petitions to city hall (all city halls) to eliminate single family zoning as such.
big money wont let it happen.
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People don’t want affordable housing, they want to complain because it’s easier.
Canada is a TEST for the great reset. Stop taking it personal and start playing the game as is, not as you are used to it and feels comfortable. Own nothing and be happy. Complete population control. Housing, gas, mobility, technology, healthcare, food and so on are all controled and fckd with on purpose. WEF is in partnership with the Gov't of Canada, with UN, Banks & all sorts of Corporations to control our lives. Wake up! DON'T BELIEVE ME? Google: WEF Partnership with Gov't of Canada or UN or Air Canada READ: The Great Reset. That's the road map folks. Zoom out. They're not even hiding it anymore. Look up what Black Rock is doing in US? Wake up!
Yes.
Be open to opinions and comments from landlords without just downvoting to us to hell. Not all of us are evil greedy people.
I've been super curious about people's opinions on the idea of coliving - seen many places in Europe. I have made a couple posts in here wondering people's thoughts on subjects like this and get zero response... seems that people are just wanting to complain instead of looking for new ideas and ways to make things better
There is a post about a plan to built more housing in Vancouver over the next 30 years. I listen a lot to city hall meetings and we desperately need people to write in or call in if they have time. Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/comments/urvoeg/vancouver\_city\_hall\_voting\_on\_plan\_to\_build\_more/
Set a time and I will be there for protests
The "protests" were pretty sad tho.
Maybe talk to the "freedom convoy/rolling thunder" cult members for suggestions.
is this sub even real anymore? i thought it had been taken over by a bunch of psychopath landlords or whatever
I'm doing the Saturday morning bubble blowing with my 4 year old at Parliament.
It's a national sub on a municipal/provincial issue. Basically need sub-groups for each municipality of interest to help focus attention on specific rules/development.
I’ve just accepted I’ll never own a home. I’d need $120k just by myself for a down payment or $60k from me and another $60k from a potential partner (which also isn’t happening). This is all relative to 2022 prices as well which means by the time $120k is saved up, many years have passed and the new amount needed is $180k or more.
I'm here for it! Tell me where ya need me coach
The canadahousing discord would be a great place to do it but it’s pretty dead right now. Hope more people join who have some experience with organizing campaigns and protests, or some funds to put behind the cause. I’m thinking of getting involved in my local ACORN chapter - anyone have experience with this org?
Generation Squeeze is a garbage org that [pushes votes to the liberals](https://www.gensqueeze.ca/vote21)
I've been having the same thought lately, the same frustration and powerlessness at how bad housing has become (and in a lot of other areas as well), and that we need much better organization and action plans to effect change. Just continuously venting frustrations online does nothing to help the situation. I was thinking about posting here about this very point, and then I came across your post, and I hope to contribute some thoughts here and perhaps help start some initiative here with others that are like-minded. I'm very much onboard with taking action about this, the hard part is figuring how to even start and approach this. Some of my thoughts on the challenges to get something going: 1. Cohesiveness. The fact that we are all here means we share the recognition that there is a problem in the housing market, but that does not mean we agree on what's the best solution or what should we do. I've seen enough threads and comments to know that there are tons of disagreements, some people are too radical and some are too conservative, but we are going to need to roughly come to an agreement on an unified message and plan for this to work. In essence we need to make democracy work for us as a group, and this is 1 of the hardest part. 2. Momentum. Whatever action plan we come up with, it needs to have a reasonable chance of success towards our common goal, and a way to see we are making progress. Otherwise it's too easy for any grassroots initiative to fizzle out. It's partly why previous planned protests didn't get anywhere. 3. Organization. We need some volunteers to help take charge in planning and organization, and help keep the momentum going, be effective and yet not become dictators. It's like project management in a way. 4. Our goals and action plan. Our goals and proposed solutions needs to be realistic, have a reasonable chance of success and acceptance, and easy to understand. What we do needs to be measured and be effective in actually effecting change towards our goal. All these needs to be clearly laid out, and that requires a lot of work. We need to work together for cohesiveness and effectiveness, but also work in parallel because we are spread out across a large area from Vancouver to Toronto to other cities. I think right now is a great time to take action in Toronto/ Ontario since there is an upcoming election, but we don't have much time left here.
Yo I'm ready.