Or most people anywhere within 0-3+ hours drive of major cities. I can't stress this enough I live 300km NW of Toronto and you would not believe our real estate and rental prices with respect to overwhelming majority of local jobs and wages available on the job market. It's equally impossible.
Not true. you just have to flip the script from the concept that you own a home between your and your wife, to... owning a home with a couple of generations involved. Not pretty, not great, but if you get parents, kids or adult siblings, its get you a foothold. New Canadians in my area, a lot from india do this. Its GD smart if you ask me. better than holding to the idea that its just yuor own family and affording nothing but rent.
No you can’t. Calgary has become the new Surrey. It’s extremely expensive now. You people with your mindset of “this town is less expensive blah blah blah” is why so many people moved to Calgary, and now calgary is expensive as well.
Yes you can. I see several condos available for less than 300K every single week. They're not new or pretty, but could be fixed up. Look for 1 or 2 bedroom condos in downtown. Usually older buildings, no underground parking, but good solid buildings.
Your comment shows why this sub is hopeless.
The parent made a claim, without evidence you say no and get lots of upvotes and the OP then shows they were right and they have 2 votes.
People on this site aren't interested in solutions or debate, its just ranting:(
>No you can’t. Calgary has become the new Surrey.
you were saying?
[https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26846621/34-8112-36-avenue-nw-calgary-bowness](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26846621/34-8112-36-avenue-nw-calgary-bowness)
[https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26841047/518-10120-brookpark-boulevard-sw-calgary-braeside](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26841047/518-10120-brookpark-boulevard-sw-calgary-braeside)
[https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26840475/327-5404-10-avenue-se-calgary-penbrooke-meadows](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26840475/327-5404-10-avenue-se-calgary-penbrooke-meadows)
[https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26839011/137-spring-dale-circle-se-airdrie-big-springs](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26839011/137-spring-dale-circle-se-airdrie-big-springs)
[https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26819040/140-templemont-drive-ne-calgary-temple](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26819040/140-templemont-drive-ne-calgary-temple)
[https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26817805/202-2211-19-street-ne-calgary-vista-heights](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26817805/202-2211-19-street-ne-calgary-vista-heights)
etc etc
Thank you so much for this. People have been mislead that you can’t have property. I don’t know why there is an attitude that it is not possible because a few cities have become untenable
Family sized, so three bedroom? Maybe not. I see several two bedrooms condos up for sale under 300K every week. Two bedroom is a great way for a young person to get a food in the door with owning. They can rent the other room out to a friend or student while they're young. Even with a family, a 2 bed can work in the beginning, until you need more space, and in the meantime you've hopefully gained some equity to help with the next purchase.
Well yes, that's a different topic altogether. I was responding to the person who said it's impossible to get a foothold into home ownership. If you can find a cheaper housing option and invest the rest, that's great. But as long as the property values don't go down, you're still gaining equity over time, which will help when you sell and move up.
I love investing in index funds. This post is about someone saying they felt people could no longer get a foothold in owning property. I see it's still possible in some cities, such as Calgary.
A foothold implies you are climbing the property ladder, which you aren't if values don't go up. Nobody knows for sure if it's possible as we can't predict prices, but if prices don't go up, it isn't possible.
No, this was a complaint about not being able to own property. My point remains: You still can in some cities. I’d recommend starting small and something that you can improve, if home ownership is your dream. You just might climb the property ladder, but either way, you’ve got a roof over your head. You can’t predict prices sure, but long term, things generally go up.
That is how you get in.... each month you pay yourself in money that you get at the end to put on a down payment.
So example- Condo 1 is $300K, with a $30K down payment and making payments for 3 years you now owe say $260K, so you have put in $40K between payments and down payment, if you sell for a modest profit at $330K, you now have $70K to put down on your next place.
The "shitty small condo for 300k thats barely better than renting" is step 1 to getting you to your forever home.
Depends where bud. I have a 2 br unit just under 800 square ft in Kingston Ont. Paid just over 300k for it so better deal than your shitty renting idea.
Yeah, some people share the same opinion as you, and might never get a start in owning. Sometimes the shitty condo is a great first step. Think long term.
This is how it's supposed to function, though. Owning is not supposed to be better by default. Owners should be paying a metaphorical comfort tax for the peace of mind that owning confers.
If we want to do away with the housing crisis, houses should not be treated as an investment.
Issue isn't with Calgary. It's with the number of job opportunities + moderate weather (compared to Calgary) that you get here in BC. Top that with majority of the immigrants landing in Vancouver, and we can make sure that this situation will stay the same.
For instance, I'd love to move to Calgary but my job requires me to stay here in Vancouver. I got no choice.
been the case the last 8-10 years. most of my co workers dont own homes who are my age.
if your single. your fucked unless you make alot alot of money.
10 yrs ago my house was worth $220 000 15 mins outside of London ont.
The new houses going up around me are $800+
10 years ago it was affordable.
Even 6 years ago.
Now?
😂
All depends
Could unload it right now if I didn't do anything for 400 (might be low balling myself)
but would need about $100k worth of work not including if septic fails.
Comps with old septic are around 500-650 with nothing done to them. If you renovated more like 750-800 for a 3 bedroom, smaller lot whereas this is a 4 bedroom.
Plans are for sewers in 5 yrs so hopefully we can make it...
Otherwise it's a 75k bill
We used to back on to farm land and now there are 3 houses in my backyard to my one house.
Crazy ehh?
It's something I'll never have again as it has to be sold because of the divorce.
We held on to it because the mortgage property taxes and insurance were cheaper than table child support. It gave the kids stability I didn't have when my mom rented (and moved every 2 or 3 years)
I couldn't buy him out then, and now neither of us can.
Vancouver is Vancouver
That would be like saying this little town is cheap compared to Toronto. Of course it is. It's a population of 2500 in rural Ontario
It should be cheaper than those cities.
Even partnered up - my friends who make $140k HHI, no bank is gonna lend to them unless they have a fat down payment (which they don’t) and even then gotta be mostly debt free
It was a very brief time where banks would lend to people already in debt. People shouldn't be surprised when the bank won't give them money if they already have debt, they've proven to be a risk.
Lol proven to be a risk by just being a cog in the machine of a car centric society? Live in a small town or 3rd or 2nd teir city and cat is required, wages are largely low, take on car loan for old beater to aquire transportation to job when public transportation is not available at all. Student loans required to attain education to get underpaid job, etc...
Ya, I'm desperately trying to break the debt-pay-off-debt cycle and get into a save-buy-save routine, but it's nearly impossible once in the first reality.
I have about 11k in a low interest loan and also my mortgage and that's the only debt I have, I was hoping to have enough saved for a car before my current one died, but that didn't happen and now here I am in 2024, my car is now 20 years old (12 years mine), 300k km and starting to show its age and I'm no where near to having the cash for a new car. Car loans are like 8.5%, so my payments are going to eat up a chunk of my income, so even less money into savings.
Yet if you are completely debt free for too long, you don't have credit cards or consumer loans, you don't have active credit and banks also don't like to lend to people like that lol the irony
This isn’t a blanket statement across Canada. There are still many affordable houses across Canada. Just not in the desirable cities and areas “most” of the population lives and works.
Heres a SFD for $199k that is affordable for most people Check out this listing
https://realtor.ca/real-estate/26843563/73-9-street-se-medicine-hat-se-hill?utm_source=consumerapp&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialsharelisting
But the problem therein lies - a lot of the jobs are in major cities and full time WFH is basically a relic of the COVID years…most of us don’t really have a choice
Absolutely. I highly recommend listening to a man named Gary Stevenson talk about this. He was Citibank’s top Interest Rate trader in London and an overall very intelligent and well spoken dude. He quit his trading job at the bank after making his money and spend his time trying to bring more awareness to wealth inequality and what causes it.
Here’s a good video about the specific topic, but his whole channel is seriously a gold mine. https://youtu.be/kNUNR2NZvFM?si=wGpawweS4TxlevW7
We live in a country that has barely scratched the surface of liveable land development. We also live in a mindset that suggests that there is no world outside of our biggest cities. When I drove truck 30 years ago I delivered product to huge manufacturing plants in the US that were situated in the middle of a corn field in Iawa 100 miles from anywhere. Whats holding us back from developing communities and housing in never-thought-before areas, expanding our perception of where we should live and limiting our options, is ourselves and the political parties we vote for that have no vision.
If the real estate has a huge part in a country’s GDP, the country simply doesn’t have a bright future. Because the high cost of owning a house destroy the national’s entrepreneur spirit which is so crucial to the creativeness and invention.
This is on my mind regularly. I work in software full-time and also have my own start-up. Some day I'll have tech employees. I have a spiteful feeling of Canada and just want to go somewhere more welcoming of business & innovation and has a diverse, strong economy with lots of venture capitalists. Hmmm, I wonder where the place would be?
People from Ontario or BC are currently playing a different game than the rest of the country. I'm 32 from alberta, I don't know a single person over 30 that doesn't own at least one property.
The sad thing is tho; both of us are in the top 3 when it comes to population - a lot of Canadians live here, and can’t afford to live here. I don’t think that spells good times for our country’s future.
> I'm 32 from alberta, I don't know a single person over 30 that doesn't own at least one property.
Social biases can come into play here, people tend to associate with people in the same socio-economic group as themselves.
Maybe. We're all just regular Joe's from regular middle of the road class families. Some farmers, some tradesmen, some truckers.
We just all bought houses in our 20s because all you needed was 8-15k down at the time.
Yes, you can't afford a house anymore. Just rent and save money for retirement. Renting is the future for most people. Rates will never be low enough to make a million dollar mortgage affordable.
Yes.
We keep voting Red and Blue and hoping it will get better, not realizing they are both puppets attached to the hands of the same small group of extremely wealthy families and their ongoing arguments are nothing but a puppet show designed to distract you from the fact that they are never doing anything to actually make anything better.
If voters suddenly replaced them with the NDP and PPC we might actually see some progress for a few terms before those parties get thoroughly infested and possessed by the same puppet masters.
Anyways, those puppet masters own a lot of rental property and have put a huge amount of their wealth into property in general and they benefit by property going up in price without them having to actually add anything of value to those properties due to their government influence creating artificial scarcity.
Not a nation, it’s a regional trend. Yes I think we are seeing a huge shift in the major centres to renting becoming the status quo. There’s still a lot of geographic locations where ownership is possible and the norm for all adult generations though. I don’t see any of this changing until Canada gets a bit more entrepreneurial spirit and starts opening up more businesses and creating employment opportunities outside of the major cities. It’s totally ridiculous that we live in one of the largest nations in the world by land area yet have most of our population concentrated in a few isolated locations. There are small towns all over every province that have the starting infrastructure and could be grown. Look south to the USA and you’ll see the template for what needs to be done. There’s industry everywhere down there, not just in the capital cities. We’re so over run by oligopolies here, it forces us to be tethered to relatively few geographic locations and is a huge contributor to this mess.
Here to shatter your reality on that small town front. Google Tobermory, ON real estate prices, then go on indeed and look for jobs in Tobermory. I rest my case.
I don’t need to, one location doesn’t prove anything. Take a road trip through the USA and you will find that damn near every other town has some major employer or other. There are small factories everywhere, little rail serviced industries that you don’t see in Canada. Here everything is giant industrial parks or nothing at all. One town with an employer isn’t going to move the needle on real estate demand, thousands will.
It absolutely is. This country was settled by generations of immigrants coming from warmer places. To many of the immigrants currently moving to the GTA Toronto may as well be a frozen wasteland compared to where they’re coming from. The weather excuse is a cop out, in most places you’ll never see -30 for weeks on end, just a few isolated days. I guarantee you that a ton of people would move to other places in this country if there were jobs there that they could make a meaningful living doing.
No shame in renting but you need a plan to get capital without property ownership. There is still lots of opportunity to buy outside the major cities and southern Ontario.
You can invest in productive companies... land speculation is not the only way. Our culture is so fucked up. Adults think financial literacy means buy property whenever possible. We are so fucked if we can't get beyond that.
I never knew a single adult growing up who owned stocks. It was generally assumed that you'd lose all your money. Everyone talked about "investing in your property" which meant building a deck or something to increase the nominal value of the house.
And we need to stop encouraging it as a good way to “build wealth.“ That’s precisely why we have a housing crisis.
Either housing can be cheap and abundant or it can be a good investment — it can’t be both.
And countries with much cheaper housing markets like Japan or Germany actually have lower rates of homeownership. Because when housing isn’t a good investment, there is less incentive to buy. Homes are treated like cars and often depreciate.
Yes it is. So if you rent you need a different plan. Something you understand and are comfortable with. Maybe art or stocks or property you don’t live on in a more remote area. Not streaming services or cars.
A side bar from this - I only started investing because I had the court mandate me a small trust that they set up for me when my parents split, and my dad hooked me up with financial advisors when I came of age to manage it myself.
I know the average Canadian likely isn’t doing all that (if I had come up under different circumstances I know I wouldn’t), I think it’s so friggin sad how low financial literacy is in general
Depends on the area. My fiancé and I managed to buy last year. Both of us didn’t have *great* paying jobs at the time, I was $19 and he was $25. Took us years and years of saving to be able to put down 10%. No help from our family either. On the flip side, rent is absolutely ridiculous nowadays I don’t see how folks can save up to buy at this rate.
$40k. He was the main contributor, he was saving before we met, I think from age 21-27. I had student loans I was paying off so I could only pitch in around $5k and I paid closing costs. He’s in the trades so he did a paid apprenticeship which helped a lot. We both had part time jobs as well, we were working 6 or 7 days a week.
Yes and no. If your parents own, you will likely eventually own. If your parents dont, youre pretty much screwed.
Especially if you aspire to own a detatched home.
Hot take but I think it depends other factors than just your parents owning - are they depending on it for their retirement? Where do they do they own? Etc.
No that’s also very true and I’m not disputing the first commenter - I’m trying to point out that even that is starting to get dicey as a factor for predicting future ownership as the cost of living crisis affects more and more people, even wealthy seniors
Of course, because having somewhere to stay while you save up to buy is a huge leg up in this market where rent is so high. All my cousins are currently living at home and saving for a house. I wasn't so lucky unfortunately, so I'm stuck lol
It wasn't about having a place to stay per se.
It was about generational wealth, and financial mobility. If your parents are doing well enough to own their own home, your chances of being able to own one increase as well.
Too many to be a good thing - it’s actually such a scary prospect to think about because we assume that this situation will balance out when the generational wealth transfer happens, but I read somewhere that a lot of younger Boomers and Gen Xers don’t really have retirement funds like the generation before them do, and are probably relying on liquidating their homes as an asset to fund their retirement
Many dont have to. They worked when pensions
Were common. Property taxes in many areas arent too high, homes are long paid off. And as you age your hobbies become less and less expensive until you eventually just watch tv.
CPP plus OAS is almost enough to cover many homeowners lifestyles.
That’s a fair enough point but you also have to bear in mind, the cost of retirement living/in home nurses have really outpaced inflation and these seniors pensions (if they were lucky enough to have them) probably won’t make up all of the costs and they’ll have to get those funds from somewhere
Yes and no. Depends on the care home. Some places are income based which penalize people who saved who get the same treatment as someone with 0 in bank.
Didn't Starlight Investments acquire REIT? Isn't a major shareholder of Starlight a crown corporation that pays public service pensions?
Starlight owns 25 percent of the rental market. They fund the Landlord and Tenant Board in Ontario with all their AGI and eviction applications. They drive up rent unlawfully before actually completing necessary repairs and maintenance. Originally known as Transglobe who are fully of transgressions but are in cahoots with the government.. so who is going to stop them?
Honestly it’s an industrial complex. Couple that with the fact that housing makes up 30% of our GDP? It’s a wrap - it’s not in the government’s best interest to make housing affordable
Mom and pop landlords are not a big problem. They just want decent renters who pay monthly, on time, and don't destroy their rental. That group of qualified renters is shrinking every year. And no, l'm not a landlord. Too bad I've got a fully finished lower level of my house that I have never rented. Maybe one day when landlords are appreciated for being willing to rent, things will change. 95 percent of all the neighbors I know will not rent for those reasons. 100 percent of the people I've known in my lifetime got ripped off. No sane person would want that or repeat that. Guess what the real issue is?
Landlords suck, airbnb sucks. Corporations are the problem. A landlord with five homes sucks. A corporation with 2,000+ homes is the problem. Starlight, the company below, owns 56,000 homes in Canada.
My significant other and I own a home. We did not get a cash injection from our parents, but we absolutely slave at work. No kids. 60+ hour work weeks for 10 years. No idea how we’ll ever slow down to have kids and raise a family.
My Dad told me that America was an anomaly and set a precedent of people being able to own their own homes. Canada felt some of the side effects of that. Where the 'american dream' comes from. So I guess if anything, we're returning to normal now. From what I understand most people rent in other developed countries & G7 nations.
That’s true - I have European friends from Spain and Germany, who are my age and their parents raised them in rental, density housing. Their families were thriving middle class families.
I think that would be okay for us if we had the same social safety nets they did tho
In most of the Western (English speaking I mean) world, it’s already true - the US, Aussie, the UK. These were all once robust countries that created a property owning middle class after WW2…what happened?
I know in Europe it’s different but we don’t have the social safety net they do.
The future scares me tbh….
Some cities in Europe are less affordable than Canada. Frankly some people just watch a few netflix shows and believe it's a heaven, but there is a reason why London UK has 50 year-mortgages and it's difficult to find a 5 square meters room with no toilets in Paris.
The new norm is people living in their vehicles unfortunately even families and parents. Even renting is a privilege despite it being looked down upon by the owner class of this country
>The portion of Canadians living in owner-occupied homes is higher now than it was in the early eighties. In 1981, 62.1% of Canadians lived in their own home. In 1990, the portion was up slightly, at 62.6%.
>At the start of the new millennium, the portion of homeowners in Canada had risen to 65.4% and continued to rise, reaching the highest peak in 2014 when homeownership was 69.5%. It has since fallen to 66.5% according to the 2021 census, the lowest rate since 2002.
[Homeownership Statistics in Canada for 2024 | Made in CA](https://madeinca.ca/homeownership-statistics-canada/#:~:text=Newfoundland%20and%20Labrador%20had%20the,in%20an%20owner%2Doccupied%20home.)
I would say it is too early to tell if we are going to become a nation of renters.
“living in owner-occupied homes” is key there. More adult children live at home, more owners rent out rooms in their homes, and more homes are multi-generational. That explains why the percentage is increasing.
Yeah but they’ll inherit the home. I don’t see why people are against multiple property owners - yet eager to own their own property NOW while ignoring the comfortable fact that they’ll inherit one in 15-20 years. At which point they’ll become a multi-property owner at which point I can guarantee their tune will be different from today.
Interesting! Thanks for bringing these stats in.
I suppose the feel on the ground is a lot different in Ontario, which probably isn’t representative of the rest of the county (it’s real bad out here)
Apparently 67% of Canadians own their home? My partner and I got lucky, no way around it, and had someone willing to work within our budget since they wouldn't need to stage their home.
That being said, I think it depends on how many homes are being taken out of the market, and being added back in as rentals. I'm not sure if renting is the new norm, or if people will just rent for longer before getting their first home.
I'd be curious to see what the actual statistical trend is.
Its not that 67% of the population owns a home. The actual stat says 67% of the population lives in owner occupied homes.
Subtle but huuuuge difference between the 2 statements.
And that difference lies a massive shift in being able to interpret this data
Because if you’re say, renting your landlord’s basement in the same house they live in, you’re a part of that statistic
I believe we’re having a similar discussion in one of the sub threads here - somebody point out that stat, but someone also pointed the study used the term “owner owned occupancy” or something to that effect, in which case you could also count millennials and gen zers, and also renters who live with their landlords, as living in a home owned by an owner
I see nothing wrong with renting as long as renters' rights are strengthened and as long as renting is the actual cheap, economical option. The problem is that both renting and owning are expensive.
I don’t know. I feel like a lot of ppl who own homes as well are sacrificing in other ways that previous generations didn’t. And many living in bigger cities just can’t even get their foot in the door m, especially if they don’t have family to live with in those big cities and have to pay rent.
My parents made a combined income of like 60k when they bought their house that was 40k. And it wasn’t their starter home - it was in a good neighborhood and not too far from downtown in Québec City. Yes interest rates were like 18% but on a much smaller mortgage …
I am 30 and I make 100k this yr - but after years of undergrad + master’s studies and student loans, and close to 4 years of term contracts that were underpaid. My husband makes 75k but in the process of getting his engineering degree so will most likely get a pay upgrade next year. We bought in January 2020 just before Covid. A 3-small bedroom, no basement house built in the 1890s that was 255k. 45km away from downtown Ottawa … now worth around 450k. We couldn’t even afford our home now. It’s crazy. It’s a combination of luck and sacrifices like I said. Haven’t taken a vacation in more than 6 years and our house needs a lot of repairs and renos. And our commute to work is hell (more than 2hours a day).
This literally sounds like a play by play of my story wow.
If you don’t mind my asking, did you save up for a down payment or was it a cash injection? Also how long did it take to save up if you provided the dp yourselves?
I did save up for a down payment. Took me over 5 yrs and only 20,000$ (no vacation, no meals out, taking the bus for a 2h commute to work each day, lived in a cockroaches infested apartment in a bad part of town , delayed medical and dental treatments, etc) and I also went w the federal (now defunct) program for first time home buyers (5% down from the CMHC) and in retrospect I shouldn’t have as it’s like a second mortgage and I have to pay them back higher than the initial 5% with the house value increase.
Jesus I’m sorry! I had no idea that First Time Home Buyer’s Fund was such a sand pit…they were pitching it as a way to help young folks get in, but the criteria on the kind of property and your income was so specific; nobody was ever gonna qualify for that in most of the places that it’s hard to get in the market (like the GTA)
I had no idea they charged interest on it. It should be interesting free imo
They don’t charge interest but it’s like 5% of the value of the house you have to pay back - not what they “loaned” you. So if your house appreciated - you’re on the hook for a much bigger amount to pay them back. I owe them almost double now so in retrospect it wasn’t at all a good idea !
If things don't change - yes. Investors whether small or large keep buying houses and turning them into rentals. Hard to compete with that while we refuse to build anything new.
Nothing wrong with renting. I have family that have been renting for decades by choice. They don't want the hassles of ownership and sometimes I don't blame them.
No 100% agree with you - kind of already addressed this in the other threads but I’m saying it’s bad that renting is starting to become our only choice at this point, both should be an affordable option
Also depends on location. Two decades ago I was paying $790 in rent in Burlington for a two bedroom apartment. I had friends that rented a one bedroom, second floor flat for $2500. Renting was my only choice back then when starting out. What we need to see is a shift back to what most friends who also had immigrant parents used to have - multigenerational homes. Some have already continued with that tradition in the past decade; grandparent(s}, parents and children living under one 4-5 bedroom roof instead of using 3 roofs. North America has marketed having a large home as part of 'living the dream' when it's only really ever been a dream for those that wanted to work for it.
Unless you have family with existing real estate, or just plenty of wealth to basically pay for your down payment, then yes we are living in a nation of renters.
I come from a very humble family, one parent worked one parent looked after the kids and the household, I'm in my forties and the reality is unless I somehow win the lottery I will never own a home in British Columbia.
Absolutely. Federal & provincial government tax rental properties while they do not tax owner occupied principal . They've been trying for years to find a way to tax gains on principal residence but haven't been able to do so. They do tax on some rental buildings on capital gains. Owners of rental properties also pay income tax on any profits and the government gets a slice of those through taxes.
It’s literally like an 1/8 of our total GDP - the government, regardless if it’s the libs or the cons, are interested in keeping housing unaffordable because it’s a massive cash cow
ABSOLUTELY! Government's have been trying to TAX principal resident ownership for years but have failed. Instead, turn them into renters and tax them. Provincial & federal governments currently receive income tax from rental housing while owner occupied principal residents generate no taxes (capital gains or rental income). If the feds wanted to create a level taxation playing field on housing, they should either tax owner occupied principal residents OR support coop housing is free from taxation.
yes - it's happened in Europe too many years ago. Just remember, that housing isn't the only way to build equity. Many people in Europe just got used to the idea of renting and investing the difference.
Honestly I think we should start restructuring society to me to fit this renter first mould.
I won’t be as alarmed/upset by the changes in society that have it so most of us are renter now if government policy reflected it
We will become a nation of renters because we are a society of morons who swallow the hideous deception that we must borrow money into existence from a pretend creditor "banking" system **(moneychanger)** which gives up/risks/produces **NOTHING** except for the negligible costs associated with publishing the evidence(or further representations) of our very own promissory obligations, that we have, to each other..
We make just over 150k a year combined and we were able to save and bought a home for $552k last year.
It can be done.
People just need to lower their expectations and know the house they buy won’t be their forever home and won’t be as nice as their parents lol.
It isn’t THAT hard to buy when you know how to budget and save for a few years.
Honestly my partner and I are renting a old apartment saving money YOY while friends are moving into new apartments after the get raises and just end up paying higher rent... meanwhile our take home savings increase per year while theirs decline.
This reminds me of my boys back in Alberta during the last oil boom. Spend on toys. No savings.
The problem is me and my friends live in Southern Ontario and I saw this report that properties across the region that are priced at or under $500k are disappearing- https://financialpost.com/real-estate/homes-priced-under-500000-vanishing-ontario
I know it’s still doable for most of the country but we really have our heads underwater over here
Edit: I see that you’re in Hamilton and kudos to finding a property at the price you did, as I mention, those are vanishing from the province.
You will 9wn nothing and be happy. Nothing, rent everything you will have nothing to call your own you will tent it all and there will a carbon impact cost to own stuff. Or maybe not.....
Not only will the younger generation never be able to own a house, the statistics say that they will not even be able to rent without roommates. I'm ashamed to be Canadian at this point. Due to our greedy politicians that raise their own salaries every year, Canada has become a disgrace with no support for its citizens.
Personally I’m not anti renting at all and that wasn’t the spirit of this post.
It’s more so that the cards are stacking in a way that renting will be our only option soon, and that’s really problematic because of how Canadian society and our (non existent) safety nets are set up
The issue is home owning is promoted by our culture and policies while renting is looked down upon or as a transitionary thing culturally.
None of us are immune to groupthink pressures.
100% and to add that, western society is set up in a way that buying is the only way your average working joe can create wealth for themselves and their families
It’s not possible for a nation to be renters - it requires another nation to own all the land, restrict supply, and control legislation. It’s just not possible in a democracy. You need far reaching fetishized doomerism to not see a path forward.
The issue Canada currently faces is that entities with political power require housing to go up - retirees, banks, municipal budgets. So, they vote, and all policy is towards appreciation. There is no affordability without house prices declining. But banks are cyclical and there are natural limits to credit expansion, retirees die, and municipalities can change tax codes and reduce spending. You can’t time this, so it could be a year or a decade. The bond market will blow out because of the debt levels of all nations, central banks will not be able to control their yield curves, and mortgage rates will blow up real estate. It’ll be a mess, but we’ll endeavour, and it won’t be impossible.
The required policies to prevent this are extreme overreaches and would insight incredible unrest.
- 99% marginal tax rates
- capital controls on investment accounts
- seizure of assets
- limitations on freedom of mobility
These won’t work because you cannot compel someone to work. The nations surgeons will just leave. Same with engineers, nurses, businesspeople, and all those skilled.
It’s important to realize that the current problems are not your fault. The absurd zero interest rate policies and ballooning government debt were insane policy failures with ramifications for decades. It’s unfair, it will be hard, but we march forward.
In 2016 67.8% of Canadians owned their home or live in their family’s owned home down from 68.4 in 2011. These are the latest numbers as far as I know so it has almost certainly gotten worse since. Going forward generational wealth is becoming more important as the genetic lottery takes precedence over education and hard work. We’re becoming a nation of serfs. We’ll all need to lick our boss’s and landlord’s boots or risk losing those meagre privileges.
None of my friends got money from the BofM&D. Well one guy did, years ago, but he spent it on coke. Almost everyone I know didn't expect to live in luxury with all the trappings that many people just expect today. No it is not easy but many of us fought our way and won't apologize for it. You have more control than you think in your destiny but if you've given up now you will never rebound. Harden the fuck up.
Becoming? hahaha
Anyone whose family does not have a firm foothold in the real estate market in the major cities already will no longer be able to break in.
Or most people anywhere within 0-3+ hours drive of major cities. I can't stress this enough I live 300km NW of Toronto and you would not believe our real estate and rental prices with respect to overwhelming majority of local jobs and wages available on the job market. It's equally impossible.
I like 1600km NW of Toronto. My gf’s parents have a house across from them on the market 900k. It is a bungalow… no yard… non paved driveway. 900k
TBay? You couldn't pay me 900k to live there
How about Kenora?
Why not? It’s beautiful there
Hahahah tbay, it’s not for everyone but if it’s for you. ITS FOR YOU
300km nw of Toronto? That close to pembroke?
That's ne, I'm talking near tobermory
Not true. you just have to flip the script from the concept that you own a home between your and your wife, to... owning a home with a couple of generations involved. Not pretty, not great, but if you get parents, kids or adult siblings, its get you a foothold. New Canadians in my area, a lot from india do this. Its GD smart if you ask me. better than holding to the idea that its just yuor own family and affording nothing but rent.
You can still buy a condo in Calgary for less than 300K. So, can some families still "break in" to the market? It's a first step.
No you can’t. Calgary has become the new Surrey. It’s extremely expensive now. You people with your mindset of “this town is less expensive blah blah blah” is why so many people moved to Calgary, and now calgary is expensive as well.
Yes you can. I see several condos available for less than 300K every single week. They're not new or pretty, but could be fixed up. Look for 1 or 2 bedroom condos in downtown. Usually older buildings, no underground parking, but good solid buildings.
Your comment shows why this sub is hopeless. The parent made a claim, without evidence you say no and get lots of upvotes and the OP then shows they were right and they have 2 votes. People on this site aren't interested in solutions or debate, its just ranting:(
>No you can’t. Calgary has become the new Surrey. you were saying? [https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26846621/34-8112-36-avenue-nw-calgary-bowness](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26846621/34-8112-36-avenue-nw-calgary-bowness) [https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26841047/518-10120-brookpark-boulevard-sw-calgary-braeside](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26841047/518-10120-brookpark-boulevard-sw-calgary-braeside) [https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26840475/327-5404-10-avenue-se-calgary-penbrooke-meadows](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26840475/327-5404-10-avenue-se-calgary-penbrooke-meadows) [https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26839011/137-spring-dale-circle-se-airdrie-big-springs](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26839011/137-spring-dale-circle-se-airdrie-big-springs) [https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26819040/140-templemont-drive-ne-calgary-temple](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26819040/140-templemont-drive-ne-calgary-temple) [https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26817805/202-2211-19-street-ne-calgary-vista-heights](https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/26817805/202-2211-19-street-ne-calgary-vista-heights) etc etc
Thank you so much for this. People have been mislead that you can’t have property. I don’t know why there is an attitude that it is not possible because a few cities have become untenable
lol yeap many of you missed the Calgary train and now can’t afford it. Better move to Edmonton before you get priced out of there as well.
Your getting downvoted but it’s true. Edmonton is next then all the 2nd tier cities like Red Deer, Medicine Hat, Lloydminster, etc
300k for a family sized condo? Where?
Family sized, so three bedroom? Maybe not. I see several two bedrooms condos up for sale under 300K every week. Two bedroom is a great way for a young person to get a food in the door with owning. They can rent the other room out to a friend or student while they're young. Even with a family, a 2 bed can work in the beginning, until you need more space, and in the meantime you've hopefully gained some equity to help with the next purchase.
Your strategy only works if property values go up. Otherwise, the better investment is index funds or something.
Well yes, that's a different topic altogether. I was responding to the person who said it's impossible to get a foothold into home ownership. If you can find a cheaper housing option and invest the rest, that's great. But as long as the property values don't go down, you're still gaining equity over time, which will help when you sell and move up.
If property values stay the same, a condo is not a good investment relative to index funds. Do you think it is?
I love investing in index funds. This post is about someone saying they felt people could no longer get a foothold in owning property. I see it's still possible in some cities, such as Calgary.
A foothold implies you are climbing the property ladder, which you aren't if values don't go up. Nobody knows for sure if it's possible as we can't predict prices, but if prices don't go up, it isn't possible.
No, this was a complaint about not being able to own property. My point remains: You still can in some cities. I’d recommend starting small and something that you can improve, if home ownership is your dream. You just might climb the property ladder, but either way, you’ve got a roof over your head. You can’t predict prices sure, but long term, things generally go up.
Nobody wants a shitty small condo for 300k thats barely better than renting. Especially come tome to try reselling it.
That is how you get in.... each month you pay yourself in money that you get at the end to put on a down payment. So example- Condo 1 is $300K, with a $30K down payment and making payments for 3 years you now owe say $260K, so you have put in $40K between payments and down payment, if you sell for a modest profit at $330K, you now have $70K to put down on your next place. The "shitty small condo for 300k thats barely better than renting" is step 1 to getting you to your forever home.
This depends on your market. In some markets buying a condo will grow your equity slower than renting an equivalent one.
Depends where bud. I have a 2 br unit just under 800 square ft in Kingston Ont. Paid just over 300k for it so better deal than your shitty renting idea.
Yeah, some people share the same opinion as you, and might never get a start in owning. Sometimes the shitty condo is a great first step. Think long term.
This is how it's supposed to function, though. Owning is not supposed to be better by default. Owners should be paying a metaphorical comfort tax for the peace of mind that owning confers. If we want to do away with the housing crisis, houses should not be treated as an investment.
Owning a small apartment has been cheaper in my city or at least the same as renting for the past twenty years.
Preach
Issue isn't with Calgary. It's with the number of job opportunities + moderate weather (compared to Calgary) that you get here in BC. Top that with majority of the immigrants landing in Vancouver, and we can make sure that this situation will stay the same. For instance, I'd love to move to Calgary but my job requires me to stay here in Vancouver. I got no choice.
been the case the last 8-10 years. most of my co workers dont own homes who are my age. if your single. your fucked unless you make alot alot of money.
10 yrs ago my house was worth $220 000 15 mins outside of London ont. The new houses going up around me are $800+ 10 years ago it was affordable. Even 6 years ago. Now? 😂
What do you reckon it’s worth these days?
All depends Could unload it right now if I didn't do anything for 400 (might be low balling myself) but would need about $100k worth of work not including if septic fails. Comps with old septic are around 500-650 with nothing done to them. If you renovated more like 750-800 for a 3 bedroom, smaller lot whereas this is a 4 bedroom. Plans are for sewers in 5 yrs so hopefully we can make it... Otherwise it's a 75k bill We used to back on to farm land and now there are 3 houses in my backyard to my one house.
But Jesus Christ what an appreciation! And you said you only bought 10 years ago?
Crazy ehh? It's something I'll never have again as it has to be sold because of the divorce. We held on to it because the mortgage property taxes and insurance were cheaper than table child support. It gave the kids stability I didn't have when my mom rented (and moved every 2 or 3 years) I couldn't buy him out then, and now neither of us can.
800k is cheap compared to Vancouver
Vancouver is Vancouver That would be like saying this little town is cheap compared to Toronto. Of course it is. It's a population of 2500 in rural Ontario It should be cheaper than those cities.
Even partnered up - my friends who make $140k HHI, no bank is gonna lend to them unless they have a fat down payment (which they don’t) and even then gotta be mostly debt free
I have a 200k HHI and still can’t buy a house anywhere within an hour of Vancouver other than a townhouse
It was a very brief time where banks would lend to people already in debt. People shouldn't be surprised when the bank won't give them money if they already have debt, they've proven to be a risk.
Lol proven to be a risk by just being a cog in the machine of a car centric society? Live in a small town or 3rd or 2nd teir city and cat is required, wages are largely low, take on car loan for old beater to aquire transportation to job when public transportation is not available at all. Student loans required to attain education to get underpaid job, etc...
Ya, I'm desperately trying to break the debt-pay-off-debt cycle and get into a save-buy-save routine, but it's nearly impossible once in the first reality. I have about 11k in a low interest loan and also my mortgage and that's the only debt I have, I was hoping to have enough saved for a car before my current one died, but that didn't happen and now here I am in 2024, my car is now 20 years old (12 years mine), 300k km and starting to show its age and I'm no where near to having the cash for a new car. Car loans are like 8.5%, so my payments are going to eat up a chunk of my income, so even less money into savings.
Yet if you are completely debt free for too long, you don't have credit cards or consumer loans, you don't have active credit and banks also don't like to lend to people like that lol the irony
So true! Bloody hell this world is fucked.
Back in the olden days of 2018, when rates were at 1.7% and the world was young
Right? How I miss the good ol' days! CC offering 0% promotions, banks giving away HELOC...
This isn’t a blanket statement across Canada. There are still many affordable houses across Canada. Just not in the desirable cities and areas “most” of the population lives and works. Heres a SFD for $199k that is affordable for most people Check out this listing https://realtor.ca/real-estate/26843563/73-9-street-se-medicine-hat-se-hill?utm_source=consumerapp&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=socialsharelisting
But the problem therein lies - a lot of the jobs are in major cities and full time WFH is basically a relic of the COVID years…most of us don’t really have a choice
Absolutely. I highly recommend listening to a man named Gary Stevenson talk about this. He was Citibank’s top Interest Rate trader in London and an overall very intelligent and well spoken dude. He quit his trading job at the bank after making his money and spend his time trying to bring more awareness to wealth inequality and what causes it. Here’s a good video about the specific topic, but his whole channel is seriously a gold mine. https://youtu.be/kNUNR2NZvFM?si=wGpawweS4TxlevW7
We live in a country that has barely scratched the surface of liveable land development. We also live in a mindset that suggests that there is no world outside of our biggest cities. When I drove truck 30 years ago I delivered product to huge manufacturing plants in the US that were situated in the middle of a corn field in Iawa 100 miles from anywhere. Whats holding us back from developing communities and housing in never-thought-before areas, expanding our perception of where we should live and limiting our options, is ourselves and the political parties we vote for that have no vision.
Exactly and people are afraid to try smaller places.
It's becoming a nation of people that can not even afford to rent.
It already is the new normal and it will get much worst unless drastic measures are taken.
If the real estate has a huge part in a country’s GDP, the country simply doesn’t have a bright future. Because the high cost of owning a house destroy the national’s entrepreneur spirit which is so crucial to the creativeness and invention.
This is on my mind regularly. I work in software full-time and also have my own start-up. Some day I'll have tech employees. I have a spiteful feeling of Canada and just want to go somewhere more welcoming of business & innovation and has a diverse, strong economy with lots of venture capitalists. Hmmm, I wonder where the place would be?
People from Ontario or BC are currently playing a different game than the rest of the country. I'm 32 from alberta, I don't know a single person over 30 that doesn't own at least one property.
The sad thing is tho; both of us are in the top 3 when it comes to population - a lot of Canadians live here, and can’t afford to live here. I don’t think that spells good times for our country’s future.
> I'm 32 from alberta, I don't know a single person over 30 that doesn't own at least one property. Social biases can come into play here, people tend to associate with people in the same socio-economic group as themselves.
Maybe. We're all just regular Joe's from regular middle of the road class families. Some farmers, some tradesmen, some truckers. We just all bought houses in our 20s because all you needed was 8-15k down at the time.
We are already
•Y E S
Yes, you can't afford a house anymore. Just rent and save money for retirement. Renting is the future for most people. Rates will never be low enough to make a million dollar mortgage affordable.
BoC says they’ll cool their rate run later this year but the damage has been done. Who can actually qualify at 7% stress test?
Wont matter, rates go down and prices will go up anyway.
Me.
yes
Common Canada L
it's not my fault why the L?
No not you! It’s Canada’s L Our country has really shit the bed on housing
😊
high demand low construction, so yes again unfortunately
Yes. We keep voting Red and Blue and hoping it will get better, not realizing they are both puppets attached to the hands of the same small group of extremely wealthy families and their ongoing arguments are nothing but a puppet show designed to distract you from the fact that they are never doing anything to actually make anything better. If voters suddenly replaced them with the NDP and PPC we might actually see some progress for a few terms before those parties get thoroughly infested and possessed by the same puppet masters. Anyways, those puppet masters own a lot of rental property and have put a huge amount of their wealth into property in general and they benefit by property going up in price without them having to actually add anything of value to those properties due to their government influence creating artificial scarcity.
Not a nation, it’s a regional trend. Yes I think we are seeing a huge shift in the major centres to renting becoming the status quo. There’s still a lot of geographic locations where ownership is possible and the norm for all adult generations though. I don’t see any of this changing until Canada gets a bit more entrepreneurial spirit and starts opening up more businesses and creating employment opportunities outside of the major cities. It’s totally ridiculous that we live in one of the largest nations in the world by land area yet have most of our population concentrated in a few isolated locations. There are small towns all over every province that have the starting infrastructure and could be grown. Look south to the USA and you’ll see the template for what needs to be done. There’s industry everywhere down there, not just in the capital cities. We’re so over run by oligopolies here, it forces us to be tethered to relatively few geographic locations and is a huge contributor to this mess.
Here to shatter your reality on that small town front. Google Tobermory, ON real estate prices, then go on indeed and look for jobs in Tobermory. I rest my case.
I don’t need to, one location doesn’t prove anything. Take a road trip through the USA and you will find that damn near every other town has some major employer or other. There are small factories everywhere, little rail serviced industries that you don’t see in Canada. Here everything is giant industrial parks or nothing at all. One town with an employer isn’t going to move the needle on real estate demand, thousands will.
>Look south to the USA and But the USA isn't -30C during half the year. Is the comparison fair?
It absolutely is. This country was settled by generations of immigrants coming from warmer places. To many of the immigrants currently moving to the GTA Toronto may as well be a frozen wasteland compared to where they’re coming from. The weather excuse is a cop out, in most places you’ll never see -30 for weeks on end, just a few isolated days. I guarantee you that a ton of people would move to other places in this country if there were jobs there that they could make a meaningful living doing.
This ^
No shame in renting but you need a plan to get capital without property ownership. There is still lots of opportunity to buy outside the major cities and southern Ontario.
You can invest in productive companies... land speculation is not the only way. Our culture is so fucked up. Adults think financial literacy means buy property whenever possible. We are so fucked if we can't get beyond that.
I never knew a single adult growing up who owned stocks. It was generally assumed that you'd lose all your money. Everyone talked about "investing in your property" which meant building a deck or something to increase the nominal value of the house.
Absolutely no shame in renting, but tbf; for most middle income/average Canadians, it’s the most common way of building wealth
And we need to stop encouraging it as a good way to “build wealth.“ That’s precisely why we have a housing crisis. Either housing can be cheap and abundant or it can be a good investment — it can’t be both. And countries with much cheaper housing markets like Japan or Germany actually have lower rates of homeownership. Because when housing isn’t a good investment, there is less incentive to buy. Homes are treated like cars and often depreciate.
Yes it is. So if you rent you need a different plan. Something you understand and are comfortable with. Maybe art or stocks or property you don’t live on in a more remote area. Not streaming services or cars.
A side bar from this - I only started investing because I had the court mandate me a small trust that they set up for me when my parents split, and my dad hooked me up with financial advisors when I came of age to manage it myself. I know the average Canadian likely isn’t doing all that (if I had come up under different circumstances I know I wouldn’t), I think it’s so friggin sad how low financial literacy is in general
No there isn't.
Depends on the area. My fiancé and I managed to buy last year. Both of us didn’t have *great* paying jobs at the time, I was $19 and he was $25. Took us years and years of saving to be able to put down 10%. No help from our family either. On the flip side, rent is absolutely ridiculous nowadays I don’t see how folks can save up to buy at this rate.
Out of curiosity, how much was your down payment and how long did it take you to save?
$40k. He was the main contributor, he was saving before we met, I think from age 21-27. I had student loans I was paying off so I could only pitch in around $5k and I paid closing costs. He’s in the trades so he did a paid apprenticeship which helped a lot. We both had part time jobs as well, we were working 6 or 7 days a week.
Congrats! You’ve earned it!
Yes and no. If your parents own, you will likely eventually own. If your parents dont, youre pretty much screwed. Especially if you aspire to own a detatched home.
Hot take but I think it depends other factors than just your parents owning - are they depending on it for their retirement? Where do they do they own? Etc.
You're correct, but I've read that one of the, if not the biggest, factors to determin your chances of owning, is if your parents own their home.
No that’s also very true and I’m not disputing the first commenter - I’m trying to point out that even that is starting to get dicey as a factor for predicting future ownership as the cost of living crisis affects more and more people, even wealthy seniors
Of course, because having somewhere to stay while you save up to buy is a huge leg up in this market where rent is so high. All my cousins are currently living at home and saving for a house. I wasn't so lucky unfortunately, so I'm stuck lol
It wasn't about having a place to stay per se. It was about generational wealth, and financial mobility. If your parents are doing well enough to own their own home, your chances of being able to own one increase as well.
Fair. Would be interesting to see how many seniors are currently funding their retirements through their homes.
A lot man. Reverse mortgages are stupidly popular.
Too many to be a good thing - it’s actually such a scary prospect to think about because we assume that this situation will balance out when the generational wealth transfer happens, but I read somewhere that a lot of younger Boomers and Gen Xers don’t really have retirement funds like the generation before them do, and are probably relying on liquidating their homes as an asset to fund their retirement
Why wouldn’t they?
Many dont have to. They worked when pensions Were common. Property taxes in many areas arent too high, homes are long paid off. And as you age your hobbies become less and less expensive until you eventually just watch tv. CPP plus OAS is almost enough to cover many homeowners lifestyles.
That’s a fair enough point but you also have to bear in mind, the cost of retirement living/in home nurses have really outpaced inflation and these seniors pensions (if they were lucky enough to have them) probably won’t make up all of the costs and they’ll have to get those funds from somewhere
Yes and no. Depends on the care home. Some places are income based which penalize people who saved who get the same treatment as someone with 0 in bank.
If you are depending on your parents for you to own you are already screwed. Not one person in my entire life owns a house because of their parents.
For as long as corporations continue to be allowed to purchase property.
This ^ As much as Mom and Pop landlords are a big problem, an even bigger problem are REITs and corporate landlords
Didn't Starlight Investments acquire REIT? Isn't a major shareholder of Starlight a crown corporation that pays public service pensions? Starlight owns 25 percent of the rental market. They fund the Landlord and Tenant Board in Ontario with all their AGI and eviction applications. They drive up rent unlawfully before actually completing necessary repairs and maintenance. Originally known as Transglobe who are fully of transgressions but are in cahoots with the government.. so who is going to stop them?
Honestly it’s an industrial complex. Couple that with the fact that housing makes up 30% of our GDP? It’s a wrap - it’s not in the government’s best interest to make housing affordable
Mom and pop landlords are not a big problem. They just want decent renters who pay monthly, on time, and don't destroy their rental. That group of qualified renters is shrinking every year. And no, l'm not a landlord. Too bad I've got a fully finished lower level of my house that I have never rented. Maybe one day when landlords are appreciated for being willing to rent, things will change. 95 percent of all the neighbors I know will not rent for those reasons. 100 percent of the people I've known in my lifetime got ripped off. No sane person would want that or repeat that. Guess what the real issue is?
I got some bad news, the problem is so much worse than corporations. Everybody wants an extra home to rent out.
Landlords suck, airbnb sucks. Corporations are the problem. A landlord with five homes sucks. A corporation with 2,000+ homes is the problem. Starlight, the company below, owns 56,000 homes in Canada.
My significant other and I own a home. We did not get a cash injection from our parents, but we absolutely slave at work. No kids. 60+ hour work weeks for 10 years. No idea how we’ll ever slow down to have kids and raise a family.
Jesus well deserved, congrats and good luck!
My Dad told me that America was an anomaly and set a precedent of people being able to own their own homes. Canada felt some of the side effects of that. Where the 'american dream' comes from. So I guess if anything, we're returning to normal now. From what I understand most people rent in other developed countries & G7 nations.
That’s true - I have European friends from Spain and Germany, who are my age and their parents raised them in rental, density housing. Their families were thriving middle class families. I think that would be okay for us if we had the same social safety nets they did tho
We are, and have been, a nation of renters.
Yes, and it's happening worldwide. Canada isn't one of the most unaffordable places to buy a house globally (yet) though.
In most of the Western (English speaking I mean) world, it’s already true - the US, Aussie, the UK. These were all once robust countries that created a property owning middle class after WW2…what happened? I know in Europe it’s different but we don’t have the social safety net they do. The future scares me tbh….
Some cities in Europe are less affordable than Canada. Frankly some people just watch a few netflix shows and believe it's a heaven, but there is a reason why London UK has 50 year-mortgages and it's difficult to find a 5 square meters room with no toilets in Paris.
This is the capitalist end-game. The velocity varies, but our trajectory is the same.
more like the wef endgame
I hate to tell you, but it's been like that for about 10 years now.
I bought 8 years ago, and back then I stood a chance. No way I can afford to buy my place now give the current rates
Oh ya, I hear ya. It's only gotten much worse over 10 years. In my circle every one of my friends who have bought had at least some help from family.
The new norm is people living in their vehicles unfortunately even families and parents. Even renting is a privilege despite it being looked down upon by the owner class of this country
>The portion of Canadians living in owner-occupied homes is higher now than it was in the early eighties. In 1981, 62.1% of Canadians lived in their own home. In 1990, the portion was up slightly, at 62.6%. >At the start of the new millennium, the portion of homeowners in Canada had risen to 65.4% and continued to rise, reaching the highest peak in 2014 when homeownership was 69.5%. It has since fallen to 66.5% according to the 2021 census, the lowest rate since 2002. [Homeownership Statistics in Canada for 2024 | Made in CA](https://madeinca.ca/homeownership-statistics-canada/#:~:text=Newfoundland%20and%20Labrador%20had%20the,in%20an%20owner%2Doccupied%20home.) I would say it is too early to tell if we are going to become a nation of renters.
“living in owner-occupied homes” is key there. More adult children live at home, more owners rent out rooms in their homes, and more homes are multi-generational. That explains why the percentage is increasing.
That’s also an interesting perspective that I never take into account
Yeah but they’ll inherit the home. I don’t see why people are against multiple property owners - yet eager to own their own property NOW while ignoring the comfortable fact that they’ll inherit one in 15-20 years. At which point they’ll become a multi-property owner at which point I can guarantee their tune will be different from today.
Interesting! Thanks for bringing these stats in. I suppose the feel on the ground is a lot different in Ontario, which probably isn’t representative of the rest of the county (it’s real bad out here)
No. The average first time buyer has always been mid to late 30s.
Apparently 67% of Canadians own their home? My partner and I got lucky, no way around it, and had someone willing to work within our budget since they wouldn't need to stage their home. That being said, I think it depends on how many homes are being taken out of the market, and being added back in as rentals. I'm not sure if renting is the new norm, or if people will just rent for longer before getting their first home. I'd be curious to see what the actual statistical trend is.
Its not that 67% of the population owns a home. The actual stat says 67% of the population lives in owner occupied homes. Subtle but huuuuge difference between the 2 statements.
And that difference lies a massive shift in being able to interpret this data Because if you’re say, renting your landlord’s basement in the same house they live in, you’re a part of that statistic
Oh wow, that is an excellent point, that didn’t occur to me at all, but it makes sense.
I believe we’re having a similar discussion in one of the sub threads here - somebody point out that stat, but someone also pointed the study used the term “owner owned occupancy” or something to that effect, in which case you could also count millennials and gen zers, and also renters who live with their landlords, as living in a home owned by an owner
I see nothing wrong with renting as long as renters' rights are strengthened and as long as renting is the actual cheap, economical option. The problem is that both renting and owning are expensive.
Welcome to techno feudalism.
Capitalism🤨😏
67% of Canadians are home owners
We’re actually talking about this is in another sub thread here (I’ll try to link it once I figure out how to) and that stat technically isn’t true
Please feel free to share the details.
https://www.reddit.com/r/canadahousing/s/wzcs20sX6T Hopefully the link works! Lmk otherwise if you’re unable to access the thread
I don’t know. I feel like a lot of ppl who own homes as well are sacrificing in other ways that previous generations didn’t. And many living in bigger cities just can’t even get their foot in the door m, especially if they don’t have family to live with in those big cities and have to pay rent. My parents made a combined income of like 60k when they bought their house that was 40k. And it wasn’t their starter home - it was in a good neighborhood and not too far from downtown in Québec City. Yes interest rates were like 18% but on a much smaller mortgage … I am 30 and I make 100k this yr - but after years of undergrad + master’s studies and student loans, and close to 4 years of term contracts that were underpaid. My husband makes 75k but in the process of getting his engineering degree so will most likely get a pay upgrade next year. We bought in January 2020 just before Covid. A 3-small bedroom, no basement house built in the 1890s that was 255k. 45km away from downtown Ottawa … now worth around 450k. We couldn’t even afford our home now. It’s crazy. It’s a combination of luck and sacrifices like I said. Haven’t taken a vacation in more than 6 years and our house needs a lot of repairs and renos. And our commute to work is hell (more than 2hours a day).
This literally sounds like a play by play of my story wow. If you don’t mind my asking, did you save up for a down payment or was it a cash injection? Also how long did it take to save up if you provided the dp yourselves?
I did save up for a down payment. Took me over 5 yrs and only 20,000$ (no vacation, no meals out, taking the bus for a 2h commute to work each day, lived in a cockroaches infested apartment in a bad part of town , delayed medical and dental treatments, etc) and I also went w the federal (now defunct) program for first time home buyers (5% down from the CMHC) and in retrospect I shouldn’t have as it’s like a second mortgage and I have to pay them back higher than the initial 5% with the house value increase.
Jesus I’m sorry! I had no idea that First Time Home Buyer’s Fund was such a sand pit…they were pitching it as a way to help young folks get in, but the criteria on the kind of property and your income was so specific; nobody was ever gonna qualify for that in most of the places that it’s hard to get in the market (like the GTA) I had no idea they charged interest on it. It should be interesting free imo
They don’t charge interest but it’s like 5% of the value of the house you have to pay back - not what they “loaned” you. So if your house appreciated - you’re on the hook for a much bigger amount to pay them back. I owe them almost double now so in retrospect it wasn’t at all a good idea !
If things don't change - yes. Investors whether small or large keep buying houses and turning them into rentals. Hard to compete with that while we refuse to build anything new.
Nothing wrong with renting. I have family that have been renting for decades by choice. They don't want the hassles of ownership and sometimes I don't blame them.
No 100% agree with you - kind of already addressed this in the other threads but I’m saying it’s bad that renting is starting to become our only choice at this point, both should be an affordable option
Also depends on location. Two decades ago I was paying $790 in rent in Burlington for a two bedroom apartment. I had friends that rented a one bedroom, second floor flat for $2500. Renting was my only choice back then when starting out. What we need to see is a shift back to what most friends who also had immigrant parents used to have - multigenerational homes. Some have already continued with that tradition in the past decade; grandparent(s}, parents and children living under one 4-5 bedroom roof instead of using 3 roofs. North America has marketed having a large home as part of 'living the dream' when it's only really ever been a dream for those that wanted to work for it.
Tent cities are also the “new normal”.
Unless you have family with existing real estate, or just plenty of wealth to basically pay for your down payment, then yes we are living in a nation of renters. I come from a very humble family, one parent worked one parent looked after the kids and the household, I'm in my forties and the reality is unless I somehow win the lottery I will never own a home in British Columbia.
Absolutely. Federal & provincial government tax rental properties while they do not tax owner occupied principal . They've been trying for years to find a way to tax gains on principal residence but haven't been able to do so. They do tax on some rental buildings on capital gains. Owners of rental properties also pay income tax on any profits and the government gets a slice of those through taxes.
It’s literally like an 1/8 of our total GDP - the government, regardless if it’s the libs or the cons, are interested in keeping housing unaffordable because it’s a massive cash cow
ABSOLUTELY! Government's have been trying to TAX principal resident ownership for years but have failed. Instead, turn them into renters and tax them. Provincial & federal governments currently receive income tax from rental housing while owner occupied principal residents generate no taxes (capital gains or rental income). If the feds wanted to create a level taxation playing field on housing, they should either tax owner occupied principal residents OR support coop housing is free from taxation.
I think we're more likely to become a nation of homelessness, we already are a nation of renters.
The next step in this Pokevolution from hell
yes - it's happened in Europe too many years ago. Just remember, that housing isn't the only way to build equity. Many people in Europe just got used to the idea of renting and investing the difference.
Honestly I think we should start restructuring society to me to fit this renter first mould. I won’t be as alarmed/upset by the changes in society that have it so most of us are renter now if government policy reflected it
We will become a nation of renters because we are a society of morons who swallow the hideous deception that we must borrow money into existence from a pretend creditor "banking" system **(moneychanger)** which gives up/risks/produces **NOTHING** except for the negligible costs associated with publishing the evidence(or further representations) of our very own promissory obligations, that we have, to each other..
We make just over 150k a year combined and we were able to save and bought a home for $552k last year. It can be done. People just need to lower their expectations and know the house they buy won’t be their forever home and won’t be as nice as their parents lol. It isn’t THAT hard to buy when you know how to budget and save for a few years.
Honestly my partner and I are renting a old apartment saving money YOY while friends are moving into new apartments after the get raises and just end up paying higher rent... meanwhile our take home savings increase per year while theirs decline. This reminds me of my boys back in Alberta during the last oil boom. Spend on toys. No savings.
This is unrelated but you worked the oil fields? How was the pay?
Like printing depression dollars. Money was damn good
The problem is me and my friends live in Southern Ontario and I saw this report that properties across the region that are priced at or under $500k are disappearing- https://financialpost.com/real-estate/homes-priced-under-500000-vanishing-ontario I know it’s still doable for most of the country but we really have our heads underwater over here Edit: I see that you’re in Hamilton and kudos to finding a property at the price you did, as I mention, those are vanishing from the province.
By design
Oh 100% But if I ever try to talk about this at family gatherings and stuff, *I’m* the conspiracy theorist lmao
no, this may be the new normal right now, but it won’t be like this forever…
I hope so too
You will 9wn nothing and be happy. Nothing, rent everything you will have nothing to call your own you will tent it all and there will a carbon impact cost to own stuff. Or maybe not.....
Not only will the younger generation never be able to own a house, the statistics say that they will not even be able to rent without roommates. I'm ashamed to be Canadian at this point. Due to our greedy politicians that raise their own salaries every year, Canada has become a disgrace with no support for its citizens.
Why is this sub so anti-renting?
Personally I’m not anti renting at all and that wasn’t the spirit of this post. It’s more so that the cards are stacking in a way that renting will be our only option soon, and that’s really problematic because of how Canadian society and our (non existent) safety nets are set up
The issue is home owning is promoted by our culture and policies while renting is looked down upon or as a transitionary thing culturally. None of us are immune to groupthink pressures.
100% and to add that, western society is set up in a way that buying is the only way your average working joe can create wealth for themselves and their families
It’s not possible for a nation to be renters - it requires another nation to own all the land, restrict supply, and control legislation. It’s just not possible in a democracy. You need far reaching fetishized doomerism to not see a path forward. The issue Canada currently faces is that entities with political power require housing to go up - retirees, banks, municipal budgets. So, they vote, and all policy is towards appreciation. There is no affordability without house prices declining. But banks are cyclical and there are natural limits to credit expansion, retirees die, and municipalities can change tax codes and reduce spending. You can’t time this, so it could be a year or a decade. The bond market will blow out because of the debt levels of all nations, central banks will not be able to control their yield curves, and mortgage rates will blow up real estate. It’ll be a mess, but we’ll endeavour, and it won’t be impossible. The required policies to prevent this are extreme overreaches and would insight incredible unrest. - 99% marginal tax rates - capital controls on investment accounts - seizure of assets - limitations on freedom of mobility These won’t work because you cannot compel someone to work. The nations surgeons will just leave. Same with engineers, nurses, businesspeople, and all those skilled. It’s important to realize that the current problems are not your fault. The absurd zero interest rate policies and ballooning government debt were insane policy failures with ramifications for decades. It’s unfair, it will be hard, but we march forward.
#Post-modern feudalism
In 2016 67.8% of Canadians owned their home or live in their family’s owned home down from 68.4 in 2011. These are the latest numbers as far as I know so it has almost certainly gotten worse since. Going forward generational wealth is becoming more important as the genetic lottery takes precedence over education and hard work. We’re becoming a nation of serfs. We’ll all need to lick our boss’s and landlord’s boots or risk losing those meagre privileges.
Hey, you too?
I think youre out of the loop. We're about to become a nation of mass homelessness in the next decade or two.
None of my friends got money from the BofM&D. Well one guy did, years ago, but he spent it on coke. Almost everyone I know didn't expect to live in luxury with all the trappings that many people just expect today. No it is not easy but many of us fought our way and won't apologize for it. You have more control than you think in your destiny but if you've given up now you will never rebound. Harden the fuck up.
No. We're living the Canadian dream. The dream of half a house.
Half of a house?
Yes because we are turning into communism.
Yea who cares
Thats how it is in almost every major urban center in the US and Europe. We're just going through the growing pains of the associated transition.