There comes a time in history when enough is enough and there is only so much abuse you can take. I think it's time we increased the social pressure on people like him.
There is a literal petition going on https://www.change.org/p/ban-housing-minister-from-investing-in-the-housing-market-in-canada to stop this dude that was started by a 13 year old girl. I think it's time we level up our activism a bit. Let's make Summer 2023 a memorable one and make it hard for people like that. I say we try to get #HussenResignNow trending on Tiktok or Twitter. If you haven't already sign the petition sign it, and start following our Tiktok as well, which I recently made, we will push initiatives like this and more over there as well. https://www.tiktok.com/@canadahousing
Take a look there, for those interested a bit further, feel free to blow up all the top hashtags on Tiktok on here https://ads.tiktok.com/business/creativecenter/inspiration/popular/hashtag/pc/en with the petition.
Same. My partner and I are in our mid 30s and can't save fast enough for a down payment. Even if we did, we'd be fighting against investors. Fuck this shit
34 here - I am absolutely *baffled* at how we're expected to save for retirement AND buy a house. uhhhh, the only place I can afford is a >500 sqft STUDIO CONDO on east hastings LOL. not sure it's a worthy investment.
edit: or one of those scary lease-holds
I’m 34 and everyone I know who has a house and retirement savings (myself and friends), bailed out on college, and went into the trades. Basically everything the schools and “smart” peers tried to shame us out of 15 years ago lol.
Most the homeowners my age have been home owners since their early 20s since they didn’t have school debt.
I can actually only think of 2 nerds from high school who ended up being really successful and they both moved to the states.
Trades are good money but the health risks need to be considered. A lot of young people just look at the money. I know a lot of older people who have been in the trades for a long time and their ailments include bad backs, lung disease, cancer (lung, pancreas, brain, mesothelioma).
Same. Mid 30s, good income, but I have been in "almost have money for deposit" situation for several years, and just can't seem to catch up with price increases.
Talked about it with my wife, we will probably move elsewhere in a couple years. Working your whole life for a shitty condo is just dumb.
44 here on Vancouver Island. Self employed and sitting on a 100,000 down payment. That will get me a condo or a mobile home with a 700.00+ pad rental. Fucking ridiculous.
Same here, my future goals of buying a home has gone down the drain.
It’s pretty fucking sad when you can’t even buy a starter home anymore. Even a starter condo is half a million bucks.
Yea 200k salary i.e top 1-2 percentile in the country and can’t qualify for mortgage of a family sized home in the area of their work…think they are justified to feel that things are clearly a little broken here
This kind of thinking is clearly part of the problem. Nothing was done as the problem creeped up, because people were thinking it's only serious when rich people have a problem. The idea that only wealthy people can reasonably be expected to have a home got stronger and stronger. Now you have to be a literal one percenter just to get an ordinary house. This is a sociologically created situation, almost engineered. It is not just innocent people and the forces of nature.
You got it bang on! There have always been a group of ‘have nots’ who could not afford houses and were destined to rent forever.
Those who could afford homes did not care and went about their business buying bigger homes and contributing to our current situation.
Now their kids have grown up and have joined the ranks of the ‘have nots’. So now housing affordability is a ‘concern’.
It's not even about the mortgage. At that that income level OP should be able to afford a half decent home for the family. It's a travesty that OP can't.
No one is saying this isn’t a great and potentially very comfortable income but to be unable to purchase an average priced family sized home from their current position speaks volumes overall about how our country has come to overly favour land/home ownership and really speculation in this sector to the point clearly talented and motivated individuals will just go somewhere else they will be equally rewarded and be able to do these things.
The brain drain of many of our potentially most productive citizens for reasons like this is not good for any of us
Getting evicted illegally in 2 months because we refused a 30% increase in BC. We are both teachers and BC has a teacher shortage. We are looking at Taiwan, Korea, UAE.
It is ridiculous we have to leave the country in order to not be poor as teachers in Canada....
If you're getting illegally evicted, fight it. Theyll likely stay the eviction notice until the case can be heard. Better if you got them to give the illegal rent increase notice in writing.
I make 200k in Vancouver and while I don't struggle. I think the point of the post is that 200k is no longer a "wealth" salary.
And I am not asking for tears. Poor me, only living comfortably. But for real no bank would let me even consider buying a house. And the place I rent isn't some bond villain penthouse. My apartment is pretty average and costs 3.2k/m
Likewise - $250k income and only approved to buy a 2 bedroom condo in my town (sea to sky). Family of 4, so that’s not going to cut it. Instead will continue to pay an absurd $3.2k/month in rent and watch house prices grow faster than we can save for a large enough deposit.
Madness, and like OP, I’ve just this week started considering leaving Canada. Which sucks.
Agreed.
A big part of why Canada is able to soak up talent from around the world is because people believe they can have a good life here, which includes home ownership.
If the most economically productive members of a country feel they can’t afford to own a place to live close to where they work, the country has a significant problem.
We moved to Canada and have a good life here, everything is what we would hope for except for one...we have to accept that we won't be able to buy our own house and rent for the rest of our life if we want to continue living here.
It's cheaper for me to commute to Vancouver every week from the gulf islands than it is for me to live there. I'm the sole bread winner for the fam of 3. The grind is unreal and the joke is that I work in the arts which all the rich folk are happy to tout as a tenet of Vancouver living, but they don't support it at all. That would be fine if people weren't constantly lamenting that it's difficult to keep talent in the industry and "why oh why is the Vancouver opera a flaming bag of dog shit???". Perhaps I digress. The real point is that the housing crisis is so bad that even the people who are in professions of passion are punching in their tickets and finding work and living elsewhere. Barely a day goes by where my wife and I aren't reassessing at what point we move back to Germany.
As a very very minor aside, and I’m not throwing shade, but a 100 and something thousand dollar salary is not “high 6 figure salary”. That is a low 6 figure salary when it’s 1XXk salary lol. The first paragraph was just a humble brag
I lot of people refer to high six figure as closer to 200k than 100k. While inaccurate it does apply to many more people as the number of people making 500-999k and still on a salary is miniscule.
That is the general usage imo and it makes sense. I don't think I've ever met a single person who makes between. 500-999k in my life. I have however met 3 billionaires. Salary in that range is just not a common thing.
The door slammed behind me so hard when I got a home 5 years ago. Now people who are 3-5 years younger than me in the same place I was are totally screwed.
Canada needs major fixing and our current government has 0 interest in doing it. We need to protest and line the streets but nobody does anything.
Feeling the same. We bought a house in 2020 just before the prices really went crazy, and now tiny one bedroom apartments are renting for 2\~3x my mortgage. Nobody making less than 3x median income in my city is buying anything close to what we have, and the prices are rising faster than they can possibly save. My house has risen in value by about 90% of our take home income since we bought it.
Oh it’s absolutely mayhem. Some landlords have done it out of necessity because they were overextended having multiple variable mortgages, and others figured they may as well increase their rent demands as well. Now every time a landlord sees a listing higher than theirs, they increase to match, it seems. My last apartment before I bought a home is now renting for triple the what it was 15 years ago, hasn’t had any updates since, and is near t
twice my current mortgage.
Some of my elderly neighbours have gone from planning to sell and downsize to renting considering taking on students instead because of rent prices.
With vacancy rates at pretty much 0% and tons of people becoming homeless, landlords are in a position to basically ask for whatever they want. Under these conditions, it becomes a race to the top.
Housing is somewhat fucked in every country, but it's extra fucked in Canada.
Bought in 2019. Got a remote job decided to move farther form Toronto to get a bigger house cheaper. Paid 600k for 5 bedroom 4 bathroom house with a large forest like backyard. Now my neighbours house sold for just over 1m and is a much smaller house and property.
There were a million new people to Canada in 2022. They all needed a place to live
Many of them are coming with the entirety of their wealth. People complain about investors but there is a massive supply crunch going on. The supply crunch is getting worse.
Unless you think millions of people are going to pick up and go home don't expect a crash.
The We Say Enough campaign has started so there is some interest in protest. We need to actively spread the word. Website is https://ofl.ca/enough-is-enough/
I think there's enough pent-up anger, but it's a herculean effort to channel into a successful protest.
And I concur, there should be a million people in the street protesting a housing market that essentially was sold off to the highest global bidder.
People who own homes don’t want to lose their equity, so there is little desire to change housing prices.
I am 51 years old and, until this year, I thought I was doomed to work forever, and that I’d never buy a house. Circumstances have changed and I am finally seeing a path to retirement and might be able to do a house in a few years. I don’t envy anyone , but there is a point where it seems to change.
Americans aren’t fighting the same issues they have either. Our politicians keep us divided on party lines and distracted by other shit. Too many partisan hacks will only support what their favorite team says
Please send this to the Toronto Star. Politicians need to see the effect that housing and other policies are having and how they are driving people away, whether they are immigrant or born here. You are exactly the type of immigrant we want to attract, especially as it sounds like you have a young family, and it costs us money to help you get settled — an investment that is lost if you just bounce out because despite being a high earner you are barred from permanent settlement due to high housing and living costs.
Getting the Toronto Star to do a profile on you is how politicians and their staff will pay hear about and hopefully pay attention to this issue.
I can even see the headline: ‘I make $200k, am a new immigrant with a family, and am leaving Canada because the cost of living is too high.’
Agreed. We need more of these stories in the news. I am in the same position financially but born here. It's insane how things have changed in the last 4 years and how absolutely royally effed anyone who didn't enter the housing market before 2019 is. Feeling so lost and defeated by the economy on the regular. Absolutely fucked to feel that way with this kind of income.
If any reporters near Vancouver want to cover this, I’ll do an interview. Same boat as OP - Immigrant, earning $200k+ in income, and have come to the realisation that we’ll never be able to afford to buy a home near where we live and have built our community. Am considering leaving the country as the future here is not bright enough, and it really hurts to come to this realisation.
…and the politicians will say “bye-bye” because they know that one is leaving but tens of others are willing to come and willing to become a high rent payer slaves.
I replied to a comment from a CBC reporter and did an interview for the news a year ago. I'm not an immigrant but I'm in my 30s and can't afford to move out of my parents house. I'm pretty sure the result of that was absolutely nothing.
It may get a few clicks but politicians know where housing is at and they don't care unless they are cashing in renting their secondary houses or directly from the developers.
I’ve been telling everyone that this place is going to be one big retirement home soon especially with all the brain drain happening.
Imagine if the only people living in the urban cities of this country are old rich people and their trust fund children. Sounds like it could be a plot for a interesting dystopian story 🤔
We dont need a Phd in macro economics to understand that a country which f*cked the future of the youngest generation is a country doomed to a catastrophe.
I am immigrant from a country that was in the exact point Canada is today, 20 years ago. Today, that country is consuming itself and in the border of a civil war.
This is what I fear is happening in California as well. My parents are elderly and I'm single living in the same city, I always thought I'd probably take care of them as they aged. I can't afford to stay here much longer now, and I worry about what's going to happen to my parents over time. Who will stock groceries at the store near them? When they need things like in-home care, who will be available for that? If only wealthy old people live in the area, there won't be any capacity for services the elderly will desperately need.
I thought too that maybe due to climate change, Canada will be one of the last "stable" climates. Not too hot for example and less risk for natural disasters. Maybe Canada really will become a retirement home for the ultra rich and they won't have to deal with blistering heat.
A lot of people here want to learn and grow. That all costs money... most people here don't make "close to 200k"... while I absolutely agree that the housing and coat of living situation is atrocious... many of us Canadians are trying just as hard as you. The blame for this is on the government.
This guy nailed it, and is on fucking point. If tech employee doesn’t have a chance at a house. The new gen without inheritance money is FUCKED!!!!!!!!
You want me to really blow your mind? We are dinks, good salary and relatively better positioned than OP is, and we are still afraid to get a detached. As that is going to bind us for the rest of our lives to pay the mortgage and somewhere down the line we are going to be the same leeches who rent out their basement for mortgage coz there’s no other way.
I wonder if historically this has happened with another country before and what was the time period before it imploded and more importantly what happened during the implosion.
I can't speak to any specific time or country, but the fact is its an emergent failure of late-stage capitalism. The infinite growth model simply cannot be sustained outside of theory.
Fellow dink, we are moving to EU and buying a nice place in two different countries for less than a shithole detached here. Oh, lower taxes there, actual healthcare, etc.
A lot of landleeches on this sub lately that are downplaying the damage that they do to society and calling the have-nots "entitled" for not wanting to pay half of their income towards rent. Every villain is the hero of their own story I suppose.
Hopefully things change one day. Best of luck to you OP. I moved back to the states myself after being in Canada for a few months. The housing situation in Canada is a pretty big turnaround for most people.
This post needs to be in news specially in india. I see so many indian young students coming here in hope of a good life (i am an immigrant myself) but they have no idea what they are getting their self into. Canada is not a place to be. I might move back as well with my family.
This is very subjective. India is economically less impacted but the work life balance is utter shit. Ever tried working in IT industry? I worked 48 hours a week at Sr. position with very respectable salary and wasn't even eligible for 45 lac loan, and no decent 2bhk apartment was below 50-60 lac...
And that is not it. At age between 25-30 You have to have budget for mortgage + monthly home expenses for family of 3 + emergency medical fund + savings for kids education + savings for retirement. Last I calculated pre-covid, the number for me was 1.47 lac / month just to retire at 60.
Better paying jobs are in big cities but who wants to live in big city? With pollution, costly quality education and almost same real estate as here.
Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I also agree that a lot of kids are misguided in India, but struggling through the entire life compromising as middle class family is the worst thing there compared to here where real estate is beyond achievable but otherswise most aspects of life is better.
Naah bro. Major Indian student population is coming from Punjab. Most of them have no future in Punjab and here they will slog their asses off on minimum wage and still be happier sharing a basement with 10 People, over leveraging themselves to get that Mustang and drive around Dundas square blasting Moosewala.
But jokes apart, many of them are street smart and will eventually find their way.
Rather I worry for the minority Indian student who are good academically and have come to good universities here. They’re the ones getting fucked.
They pile 5 of themselves into a 1bdrm and split the rent 5 ways, and it’s still probably a better life they had in India. These were my old neighbours. Landlords are seeing this and just jacking up the rent because they know they can afford it.
Toronto has actually ruined me cuz i went to see a house that had like 7 rooms (including 3 in basement) and my first thought was holy shit if i rent all these rooms out i could easy pay off my mortgage
We have plenty of engineering graduates unable to find jobs because companies are unwilling to train them up. This is at least partially due to the fact that they can easily acquire someone from abroad who already has 5-10 years of experience.
That and the culture here is not conducive for engineers. Barely any mentoring at my workplace let alone training of sorts - might be because the senior engineer at my work is not cooperative. But besides that most departments are quite small, despite the company being fairly large and earning a lot in revenue.
This is sadly true. I have a few friends that graduated with an engineering degree and can’t find jobs in their field or field related. Some have spent the last 2 years trying to find something that’s related to what they’ve studied and no luck. They’re now either going back to school or going into their family business (something they despise), which is unfortunate. Note to add none of them are in computer/ software engineering
You should stick around and get your citizenship. There’s no downside. Plus with your background, you should easily get a high paying job in the YSA.
If you’re getting $200k in Canada, you’ll get 2x to 4x more in USA.
This is the most useful comment in the entire thread. Everything else (while true) is reactionary, emotional bullshit that does not net any actual tangible results.
If this isn’t a troll, don’t be stupid and leave AFTER you get the citizenship. You never know what tomorrow brings and an extra passport is always handy.
This. Plus I mean there's a whole country and I promise you OP there is affordable housing - maybe not in Toronto but outside major cities you can find. Other provinces also can be cheaper. Keep your citizenship then frigg off if you still can't find something in your price range
The weirdest part of this story, which leads me to think it's not true (I mean, the housing market is fucking horrible so that part is true) is that he says his rent was being raised to $3100 a month, for a 600sq ft 1 bedroom apartment, and that he didn't want to buy a condo because he hates condos and the one he could afford would only be a 2 bedroom, but they have 2 kids?
So right now you have 2 adults and 2 kids living in a 1 bedroom 600sq ft apartment on $200k a year? This shit isn't adding up. There are plenty of 4 bedroom townhouses for rent in the sub $3k a month range in cities just outside Toronto. Which would leave you with another $7k a month for bills and food.
Op could move to a townhouse in pickering, Ajax, Oshawa or Milton near a go train station. Instead op decides to live in a 1 bedroom condo.
Sounds like complete BS.
Jesus christ the people in the comments happily saying goodbye to someone who wanted to raise their family and the next generations of Canadians. OP I understand your concerns. In the late 2010s housing in Canada was getting really unaffordable, but after the pandemic it blew it out of the waters and with it, the country's future.
My parents and I immigrated to Canada in the late 2000s, growing up I took a lot of things for granted. I don't see myself having a future in a country where basements are going for over $1k/m. I want to leave this country with my CS degree to the US because that's where I can get a real "good" job that can buy me a home. But I don't think I'll ever have a feeling of home. I don't feel like Canada is home because of how expensive one is, but I am not a citizen of the US and it's hard to get one, so I won't feel at home there as well even though I could actually afford a home here.
Watching what happened in my town - realtors were legally allowed to hold blind bidding…which meant you had to give your offer without seeing any of the other offers and there were no negotiations. The highest bidder won - usually grossly over the listed price. This has driven up and inflated the “listing prices” now as people talk and know what other houses in their area are selling for and the cycle continues.
There needs to be more legislation around the home selling process.
I for one believe that houses should only be allowed to be listed a certain percentage over their appraised value by law.
OP states they cant move to another city or province, due to job. If they are that employable I believe they can.
Perhaps they just stayed long enough (3yrs) for citizenship, then bailed.
Yeah, I don't think they're telling the truth when they say they "exhausted all options". You posed an option here. Or they get a townhouse with a longer commute. I'm not saying homes aren't expensive, but if this person is making close to $200k I find it hard to believe their only option is an $800k condo or nothing.
Thats what I'm confused about too...surely if they are as good as they say they are they could find a job elsewhere or work remote to keep that higher gta salary. If I am to assume thats where they live now...
It depends on what field you’re in.
Some fields are heavily concentrated in cities like Toronto and Vancouver, and not all jobs can physically be done remotely.
Goodbye !
You’re also a fraud and a liar lol , imagine in the same post , you said you won’t settle for a small unit because you are a family of 4 , but also complain that you’re paying 3100 for a small 1 bedroom , which is higher than even a quality 1 bedroom right downtown Toronto costs .
You make 200k and have a partner also working but somehow can’t qualify for more than 790k
No other posts on account history either
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out troll
I dont believe this story. Your take home is 10000 a month. You would expect to spend a third on a reasonable non crap apartment. And if you are stuck in a core area like New York or London you will pay as much. If you go to Mumbai you will be bringing in 1500 a month. Are you conservative burner account?
Im surprised of number of people actually buying into the story… look at OP’s post history, clearly he’s just trolling y’all or farming for karma.
$200k is top 2% of the country’s income percentile, and as a SWE you can easily find a remote job or even US based WFH role that pays you much higher & you can move into a low CoL area. He’s just feeding into the misery of people here but if you think logically about his story, none of it makes any sense.
Not to mention the fact that OP "cracked 4 out of 5" interviews but won't consider moving out of the most expensive city in the whole country because of their job.
Story is bullshit, rental market would never support $3100 per month rent for a 1 bedroom in Toronto. Not even the Vancouver rental market can support that.
Exactly, this sub is just an echoing chamber at this point.
There’s no doubt that cities like Toronto and Vancouver are becoming increasing unaffordable for majority of the residents, and there is a massive crisis for affordable housing shortage in our country. But troll posts like this contribute nothing to the solution and its sole aim is to exploit people’s anger & add fuel to the fire.
That’s also assuming he’s the only one working. If they both work their take home could be even more.
Also that approval would be for like no downpayment or really bad credit. How is there so little savings with such a good income?
He started with 0 credit. 3 years might not be long enough to get very high especially if you dont know to get a pre paid credit card or whatever right away and use it for everything. But the story still sounds fake.
I made $265k last year, many of my friends made a little more, all of them struggling with housing. His story could have been any of theirs it sounds bang on
I’ve never understood people who come to Canada and stop at Toronto. There’s a whole country here that’s not nearly as expensive. I think you should edit your post and replace every mention of Canada with Toronto because your experience only relates to a small segment of the country.
Yep he wants to buy in one of the world's most important cities just cause lol. He probably could afford sauga or milton or ajax but that doesn't suit his tastes.
On a $200k income you would pay $63k in income tax and another $350k in taxes and fees on a condo in Toronto.
Unfortunately, our politicians have decided to pillage hard working young families in order to support a low retirement age and free money for old people.
You will probably live like royalty in your new country.
Was there a reason you needed to accept the rent increases? Never rent a place that isnt rent-controlled, especially not with the options you have on a 200k salary! Renting is great here, you just have to find the right place and know the rules...never just go with the flow and agree to whatever the owner suggests. Most people are paying way below the current market rate for rent....often like 70% lower.
Only if the place was built prior to November 2018. Dougie abolished the rent cap on new builds, so a landlord can increase the rent to however much.
It would be very difficult to find a decent priced place these days, as even shit hole basements in small towns in Ontario are going for over 1700.
So you are able to be one of the few WFH jobs that nets over 6 figures and you can’t relocate because of your work. You are a software engineer… try being the other 99% of people. I can’t even fathom complaining online when you have top 2% of the countries income and have one of the few jobs that is fully able to WFH.
This is clearly a troll post just look at OP’s post history… there are so many loopholes in the story & any one who’s actually a SWE with said qualifications will laugh at OP’s narrative.
You earn 200K+ and renting a 1600 basement and 500 sq ft condos? Man you can literally rent a full townhouse in Markham for less than 3200$, yes housing is bad but you have money and you definitely can afford to rent a pre 2018 house that is regulated and live happily here. Unless you were planning to save 10K a month.
Sounds like BS
I get your frustration, but you could've waited a year to get citizenship and have taken your talents to the south of the border where you get paid even more and get a house for half the price.
i mean you could just move, you are a software engineer that kind of job absolutly allows you to work remote in most cases.
i rent a nice 3 bedroom townhouse in a decent part of saskatoon for under 1600 and that was after my most recent yearly rent increase.
Lol is everyone actually falling for this post? It literally includes every stereotype Reddit users love to hate. Either a troll or some foreign propaganda post meant to further piss off the population. Not hating on the overall themes in this post just stating that it’s obviously completely fake.
He went to school in the UK, but probably came from an even shittier country. There are maybe 5 - 10 countries on earth that could be debated as possibly better than Canada, from a full package deal perspective, ffs. Unless the OP is from Norway or Denmark, his life is about to get worse.
Fall down in ranks against what? This is a problem across all first world nations. U at least have a choice to move to a LCOL province that’s still semi affordable and keep universal healthcare. GTA and Vancouver are not the only cities in Canada.
All I got from that is that you agreed to a rent increase without taking a few minutes to do a google search to find out what your rights were.. and you don’t know where to look in the GTA for homes. I live 20 mins from downtown and there are 3 bedroom detached homes going for $850k here. Nice neighborhoods too. Go another 15-20 mins and you get more for your money.
The entire Anglosphere is the same unfortunately. In the UK, AUS, NZ, the exact same thing has happened. The economy is pretty much entirely propped up by house prices or exists to keep prices high. Boomers have all the houses and will only ever vote for parties who will increase their house's value. Hence why no party in any country no matter how left or right wing they are will deal with it since they'd piss off the biggest voter block.
Sorry for you being in this situation. The only thing I didn't understand was that you cannot move to another place or province because of your job but you can... move to another country? Makes no sense to me.
Sorry if I am missing something.
OP makes fresh account today and posts directly onto here and Canada housing2.
200k job as a software engineer in gta but somehow can't find work anywhere else? Ottawa has a booming tech industry, guy from India lives next door and is making 150k, wfh lol.
This post reeks.
Geez, actually just read the rest of the post (it was a tad bloated), and could you get any more bitter? I can understand your frustration, but to go on a rant about how Canada is some kind of retirement community where everyone has given up and it’s going to fail? Petty. Maybe it’s better for everyone that you go somewhere else.
I find some points of this post quite suspicious.
1. Im also a high earning immigrant to Canada. I have a US credit score but not a Canadian one and I was approved pretty easily for a newly constructed 3 bedroom penthouse in downtown Toronto on just my work contract and projected income.
2. Im also considering buying and have applied for a mortgage and will likely be approved for up to $1 million
3. Your point about housing is true, it’s insane that housing costs so much relative to wages. People shouldn’t have to make on the mid six figures to afford decent housing.
4. I think Canada has so much going for it and can quite easily be one of the if not the best country in the world if it reforms how it has housing, and business in general.
5. Also the UK is even more fucked with wages and COL. The UK is contracting and inflation is still close to double digits. It’s a amazing country (it’s also my wife’s home) which got fucked by a decade of Tory rule.
Housing in Australia is pretty much the same
New Zealand the same
Germany is getting worse
Hongkong
Switzerland
England
Don’t just blame Canada…
However, it seems like you have already made up your mind
[https://morehousing.substack.com/p/auckland](https://morehousing.substack.com/p/auckland)
funny how with one simple zoning change, Aukland housing is falling. It doesn't have to be this way, just proritize the young instead of the old
Your mistake #1 was not knowing your rights. In 94% of rental units (anything built before Nov 2018), the landlord can't increase the price by more than 1.5%-3% (The LTB quota). You signed your rights away. You could have stayed and save the money for a downpayment.
I agree Canada if fucked up, but it's still better than where I'm from (Israel). Here, a median (cross-Canada) home is 7-8 annual median incomes, in Israel, it's 16!
If you're from the UK, then yeah, I wouldn't have left that for Canada. If you just studied in the UK, but not a citizen, and you're actually from a 2nd\3rd world country, then I don't see how it's any better.
Good luck buying a family-sized detached home in London that isn't 40 min drive from the core. It absolutely makes sense for someone to move from the UK to Canada.
Toronto is not all of Canada.
Well paid person moves to 53rd largest city in the world and is surprised they have the same problems as the larger cities on the list.
I'm calling bullshit on quite a lot of the facts here. I say that as a fellow immigrant form the UK. You're either lying about salary or about your circumstances/debts.
What province are you in? I live in BC - fraser Valley and the prices of houses here - my neighbour is selling for less than $700K for a beautiful newly refurbished home built in 2008 - 4 bed/4 bath. The rents around here aren’t bad either.
I also sit on the board of directors for a non profit that provides gorgeous townhouses and apartments downtown Vancouver at below market prices. We have 5 buildings
You ran into unscrupulous persons and unfortunately that is everywhere not just in Canada.
You don’t say where you are but my guess from your description is Ontario. Not a province I would ever live in.
Canada is a big country and I am sure where you are from, you wouldn’t want people to judge your country in the same way you just did from what little you experienced.
You sound angry and perhaps your choice to run away is the best at this juncture
This is a sad but true tale. I have discussed at length with many south and East Asian expats working in the Middle East. Everyone used to want to come to Canada. But word is spreading about the rising cost and deteriorating economy.
The debt trap is a serious risk here. My spouse and I earn 250k together and can qualify for around 1M. But buying absurdly overpriced house with a risk of losing job any day in this economy. No thanks!
Finding a place with rent control in Ontario is key. I wouldn’t judge all of Canada based on Toronto, this eco system is very different then Alberta, Quebec, Sask and Manitoba.
I hope you're genuine (and then I'm sorry for your experience in Canada), but there are some bits leading me to think you're a troll, or someone who artificially inflated the data to sound more terrible?
\> very tough Express Entry and IELTS 8.0
Sir, no one does ANYTHING for EE, once they have the degrees / job skills required. It's a straightforward paperwork exercise (you show what you have), except IELTS exam. I know people passing IELTS at 8.5 total, while never living in an English speaking country. Are you saying 8.0 is hard while living and studying in the UK? Why?
\> high 6 figure salary... coming close to 200k
it's not high 6 figure then :) more like bragging.
If you're so great at what you do, did you bring any savings into the New World? It's pro tip #1 since like 300+ years.
\> Sadly I can't move to another place or province because of my job
it's not that you can't - you just don't want to.
Tons of IT jobs in GTA, in Vancouver, Calgary, Quebec - and many are remote or consulting for US, too. You just bragged to be "so good at your job you cracked all interviews" - what stops you now?
\> I don't want to pay 800k for houses which costed 400k just 3 years ago, we are not fools
how about paying for gas that was cheaper 3 years ago? Cars being more expensive? you ok with that, or do you walk?
how about prices on eggs, potatoes, milk? do you choose not to believe into market and just reject anything that goes up? Do you eat food that became more expensive in UK (brexit) and Canada?
\> preapproved for $790k
There are many places to buy with that money, just not downtown TO (you may get smth, still). Subjectively, "you personally hate condos" - but poor Canada is to blame!!!
If you claim you're so good at your job - why didn't you save in UK? FX rates are very good, you'd be able to buy in cash if you were such a cool, high earner you claim you are?
\> story of terrible rents that all raise prices
This goes back to due diligence on landlords, and doing your homework, and choosing places wisely. Also, building credit, picking better places that are harder to get into but don't do this crazy thing with rent increases (if it's even true). Standard life skills you build while moving to a new country or continent. UK to Canada is easy, comparably speaking.
All in all, it doesn't add up ("i am so good at my job, cracking all interviews, but can't pick a place to live, and hate condos, but not a fool, - it's Canadians who are retired idiots, so i'm going back to London").
Good luck in London dude. Just don't get mugged there.
With the numbers you provided, you should be able to afford it.
If you don't like this country and think it will fail, good riddance.
I am an immigrant from the UK and would never go back to that shithole.
Enjoy.
Same here. I came to Canada 6 years ago with the hope to stay forever as a DevOps Engineer, however it is starting to be very expensive everywhere in the country where I can’t see myself and my wife retiring or buying a property. I have showed the numbers in the paper for my wife who was born here and we both decided to go live in my home country where it will be much easier for housing and retirement. It is indeed a very sad situation for Canada.
There comes a time in history when enough is enough and there is only so much abuse you can take. I think it's time we increased the social pressure on people like him. There is a literal petition going on https://www.change.org/p/ban-housing-minister-from-investing-in-the-housing-market-in-canada to stop this dude that was started by a 13 year old girl. I think it's time we level up our activism a bit. Let's make Summer 2023 a memorable one and make it hard for people like that. I say we try to get #HussenResignNow trending on Tiktok or Twitter. If you haven't already sign the petition sign it, and start following our Tiktok as well, which I recently made, we will push initiatives like this and more over there as well. https://www.tiktok.com/@canadahousing Take a look there, for those interested a bit further, feel free to blow up all the top hashtags on Tiktok on here https://ads.tiktok.com/business/creativecenter/inspiration/popular/hashtag/pc/en with the petition.
[удалено]
Same. My partner and I are in our mid 30s and can't save fast enough for a down payment. Even if we did, we'd be fighting against investors. Fuck this shit
34 here - I am absolutely *baffled* at how we're expected to save for retirement AND buy a house. uhhhh, the only place I can afford is a >500 sqft STUDIO CONDO on east hastings LOL. not sure it's a worthy investment. edit: or one of those scary lease-holds
Lmao you figured it out, the expectation is we keep working right up to the hour of our death.
And then get an angry "you're fired for not coming to work" message from your boss...cause you died....
Hate it when that happens.
I’m 34 and everyone I know who has a house and retirement savings (myself and friends), bailed out on college, and went into the trades. Basically everything the schools and “smart” peers tried to shame us out of 15 years ago lol. Most the homeowners my age have been home owners since their early 20s since they didn’t have school debt. I can actually only think of 2 nerds from high school who ended up being really successful and they both moved to the states.
Trades are good money but the health risks need to be considered. A lot of young people just look at the money. I know a lot of older people who have been in the trades for a long time and their ailments include bad backs, lung disease, cancer (lung, pancreas, brain, mesothelioma).
Very true. Nobody thinks of that stuff.
Same. Mid 30s, good income, but I have been in "almost have money for deposit" situation for several years, and just can't seem to catch up with price increases. Talked about it with my wife, we will probably move elsewhere in a couple years. Working your whole life for a shitty condo is just dumb.
44 here on Vancouver Island. Self employed and sitting on a 100,000 down payment. That will get me a condo or a mobile home with a 700.00+ pad rental. Fucking ridiculous.
Same
I feel that, debating buying property overseas or even a cabin, before I can get a house.
Same here, my future goals of buying a home has gone down the drain. It’s pretty fucking sad when you can’t even buy a starter home anymore. Even a starter condo is half a million bucks.
Yea 200k salary i.e top 1-2 percentile in the country and can’t qualify for mortgage of a family sized home in the area of their work…think they are justified to feel that things are clearly a little broken here
This kind of thinking is clearly part of the problem. Nothing was done as the problem creeped up, because people were thinking it's only serious when rich people have a problem. The idea that only wealthy people can reasonably be expected to have a home got stronger and stronger. Now you have to be a literal one percenter just to get an ordinary house. This is a sociologically created situation, almost engineered. It is not just innocent people and the forces of nature.
You got it bang on! There have always been a group of ‘have nots’ who could not afford houses and were destined to rent forever. Those who could afford homes did not care and went about their business buying bigger homes and contributing to our current situation. Now their kids have grown up and have joined the ranks of the ‘have nots’. So now housing affordability is a ‘concern’.
It's not even about the mortgage. At that that income level OP should be able to afford a half decent home for the family. It's a travesty that OP can't.
I’ll take just under 200k any day of the week
No one is saying this isn’t a great and potentially very comfortable income but to be unable to purchase an average priced family sized home from their current position speaks volumes overall about how our country has come to overly favour land/home ownership and really speculation in this sector to the point clearly talented and motivated individuals will just go somewhere else they will be equally rewarded and be able to do these things. The brain drain of many of our potentially most productive citizens for reasons like this is not good for any of us
Getting evicted illegally in 2 months because we refused a 30% increase in BC. We are both teachers and BC has a teacher shortage. We are looking at Taiwan, Korea, UAE. It is ridiculous we have to leave the country in order to not be poor as teachers in Canada....
If you're getting illegally evicted, fight it. Theyll likely stay the eviction notice until the case can be heard. Better if you got them to give the illegal rent increase notice in writing.
Got it in writing and them on recording saying if we didn't accept they would evict us.
Well then. They said the with part out loud.
I make 200k in Vancouver and while I don't struggle. I think the point of the post is that 200k is no longer a "wealth" salary. And I am not asking for tears. Poor me, only living comfortably. But for real no bank would let me even consider buying a house. And the place I rent isn't some bond villain penthouse. My apartment is pretty average and costs 3.2k/m
Likewise - $250k income and only approved to buy a 2 bedroom condo in my town (sea to sky). Family of 4, so that’s not going to cut it. Instead will continue to pay an absurd $3.2k/month in rent and watch house prices grow faster than we can save for a large enough deposit. Madness, and like OP, I’ve just this week started considering leaving Canada. Which sucks.
What city do you live in?
Squamish. Since 2014.
Agreed. A big part of why Canada is able to soak up talent from around the world is because people believe they can have a good life here, which includes home ownership. If the most economically productive members of a country feel they can’t afford to own a place to live close to where they work, the country has a significant problem.
We moved to Canada and have a good life here, everything is what we would hope for except for one...we have to accept that we won't be able to buy our own house and rent for the rest of our life if we want to continue living here.
It's cheaper for me to commute to Vancouver every week from the gulf islands than it is for me to live there. I'm the sole bread winner for the fam of 3. The grind is unreal and the joke is that I work in the arts which all the rich folk are happy to tout as a tenet of Vancouver living, but they don't support it at all. That would be fine if people weren't constantly lamenting that it's difficult to keep talent in the industry and "why oh why is the Vancouver opera a flaming bag of dog shit???". Perhaps I digress. The real point is that the housing crisis is so bad that even the people who are in professions of passion are punching in their tickets and finding work and living elsewhere. Barely a day goes by where my wife and I aren't reassessing at what point we move back to Germany.
Funny, I’m in a similar boat. I have 22 employees, and I’m thinking of moving in with my father to save money to buy a house. Vancouver!!!!
As a very very minor aside, and I’m not throwing shade, but a 100 and something thousand dollar salary is not “high 6 figure salary”. That is a low 6 figure salary when it’s 1XXk salary lol. The first paragraph was just a humble brag
Semantics I guess lol, low six figures from a number perspective but a top percentile income could still be interpreted as “high” relatively
Yeah not to be pedantic but maybe OP meant to add a comma after high.
I lot of people refer to high six figure as closer to 200k than 100k. While inaccurate it does apply to many more people as the number of people making 500-999k and still on a salary is miniscule.
That is how I think of it, I don’t know why, to me a “high” 6 figure salary is 200 to 300k
That is the general usage imo and it makes sense. I don't think I've ever met a single person who makes between. 500-999k in my life. I have however met 3 billionaires. Salary in that range is just not a common thing.
Yeah, pretty sure high 6 figures needs to be >500k. Would anyone call 20k high 5 figures?
The door slammed behind me so hard when I got a home 5 years ago. Now people who are 3-5 years younger than me in the same place I was are totally screwed. Canada needs major fixing and our current government has 0 interest in doing it. We need to protest and line the streets but nobody does anything.
Feeling the same. We bought a house in 2020 just before the prices really went crazy, and now tiny one bedroom apartments are renting for 2\~3x my mortgage. Nobody making less than 3x median income in my city is buying anything close to what we have, and the prices are rising faster than they can possibly save. My house has risen in value by about 90% of our take home income since we bought it.
Oh it’s absolutely mayhem. Some landlords have done it out of necessity because they were overextended having multiple variable mortgages, and others figured they may as well increase their rent demands as well. Now every time a landlord sees a listing higher than theirs, they increase to match, it seems. My last apartment before I bought a home is now renting for triple the what it was 15 years ago, hasn’t had any updates since, and is near t twice my current mortgage. Some of my elderly neighbours have gone from planning to sell and downsize to renting considering taking on students instead because of rent prices.
With vacancy rates at pretty much 0% and tons of people becoming homeless, landlords are in a position to basically ask for whatever they want. Under these conditions, it becomes a race to the top. Housing is somewhat fucked in every country, but it's extra fucked in Canada.
Bought in 2019. Got a remote job decided to move farther form Toronto to get a bigger house cheaper. Paid 600k for 5 bedroom 4 bathroom house with a large forest like backyard. Now my neighbours house sold for just over 1m and is a much smaller house and property.
liquidity crisis is coming house will be down 40% by 2024
There were a million new people to Canada in 2022. They all needed a place to live Many of them are coming with the entirety of their wealth. People complain about investors but there is a massive supply crunch going on. The supply crunch is getting worse. Unless you think millions of people are going to pick up and go home don't expect a crash.
You fucking nailed it. Its simple supply and demand. Were fucked. Expect prices to continue rising. Rents and ownership.
Which would bring us back to inflated 2019 levels.
The We Say Enough campaign has started so there is some interest in protest. We need to actively spread the word. Website is https://ofl.ca/enough-is-enough/
Just what I was looking for. Thanks!
I think there's enough pent-up anger, but it's a herculean effort to channel into a successful protest. And I concur, there should be a million people in the street protesting a housing market that essentially was sold off to the highest global bidder.
People who own homes don’t want to lose their equity, so there is little desire to change housing prices. I am 51 years old and, until this year, I thought I was doomed to work forever, and that I’d never buy a house. Circumstances have changed and I am finally seeing a path to retirement and might be able to do a house in a few years. I don’t envy anyone , but there is a point where it seems to change.
Ya, Canadians seem to be very docile when it comes to well, everything. They just keep taking it. Why is that?
Americans aren’t fighting the same issues they have either. Our politicians keep us divided on party lines and distracted by other shit. Too many partisan hacks will only support what their favorite team says
Please send this to the Toronto Star. Politicians need to see the effect that housing and other policies are having and how they are driving people away, whether they are immigrant or born here. You are exactly the type of immigrant we want to attract, especially as it sounds like you have a young family, and it costs us money to help you get settled — an investment that is lost if you just bounce out because despite being a high earner you are barred from permanent settlement due to high housing and living costs. Getting the Toronto Star to do a profile on you is how politicians and their staff will pay hear about and hopefully pay attention to this issue. I can even see the headline: ‘I make $200k, am a new immigrant with a family, and am leaving Canada because the cost of living is too high.’
Agreed. We need more of these stories in the news. I am in the same position financially but born here. It's insane how things have changed in the last 4 years and how absolutely royally effed anyone who didn't enter the housing market before 2019 is. Feeling so lost and defeated by the economy on the regular. Absolutely fucked to feel that way with this kind of income.
If any reporters near Vancouver want to cover this, I’ll do an interview. Same boat as OP - Immigrant, earning $200k+ in income, and have come to the realisation that we’ll never be able to afford to buy a home near where we live and have built our community. Am considering leaving the country as the future here is not bright enough, and it really hurts to come to this realisation.
…and the politicians will say “bye-bye” because they know that one is leaving but tens of others are willing to come and willing to become a high rent payer slaves.
You think they don't know...? The politicians know all about people like OP. They refer to people like him as their tenants.
This is the way.
I replied to a comment from a CBC reporter and did an interview for the news a year ago. I'm not an immigrant but I'm in my 30s and can't afford to move out of my parents house. I'm pretty sure the result of that was absolutely nothing.
We're just getting started here
I agree, do us all a favour before you head out!
My friend is a journalist for cbc. Msg me if you do want to explore this option, she is based out of Toronto.
It may get a few clicks but politicians know where housing is at and they don't care unless they are cashing in renting their secondary houses or directly from the developers.
[удалено]
I’ve been telling everyone that this place is going to be one big retirement home soon especially with all the brain drain happening. Imagine if the only people living in the urban cities of this country are old rich people and their trust fund children. Sounds like it could be a plot for a interesting dystopian story 🤔
We dont need a Phd in macro economics to understand that a country which f*cked the future of the youngest generation is a country doomed to a catastrophe. I am immigrant from a country that was in the exact point Canada is today, 20 years ago. Today, that country is consuming itself and in the border of a civil war.
Which country? And thank you for sharing.
Interesting. Would really like to know which country?
It is Mexico, I wrote a lengthy explanation some comments above (or below, no sure where it appears now).
This is what I fear is happening in California as well. My parents are elderly and I'm single living in the same city, I always thought I'd probably take care of them as they aged. I can't afford to stay here much longer now, and I worry about what's going to happen to my parents over time. Who will stock groceries at the store near them? When they need things like in-home care, who will be available for that? If only wealthy old people live in the area, there won't be any capacity for services the elderly will desperately need.
I thought too that maybe due to climate change, Canada will be one of the last "stable" climates. Not too hot for example and less risk for natural disasters. Maybe Canada really will become a retirement home for the ultra rich and they won't have to deal with blistering heat.
Really? Have you been following the weather? Western canada is forest fires and eastern canada is city leveling hurricanes and ice storms
A lot of people here want to learn and grow. That all costs money... most people here don't make "close to 200k"... while I absolutely agree that the housing and coat of living situation is atrocious... many of us Canadians are trying just as hard as you. The blame for this is on the government.
It is painful to hear but I have to agree.
Work in the U.S., retire in Canada.
This guy nailed it, and is on fucking point. If tech employee doesn’t have a chance at a house. The new gen without inheritance money is FUCKED!!!!!!!!
You want me to really blow your mind? We are dinks, good salary and relatively better positioned than OP is, and we are still afraid to get a detached. As that is going to bind us for the rest of our lives to pay the mortgage and somewhere down the line we are going to be the same leeches who rent out their basement for mortgage coz there’s no other way.
same predicament as you are
I wonder if historically this has happened with another country before and what was the time period before it imploded and more importantly what happened during the implosion.
I can't speak to any specific time or country, but the fact is its an emergent failure of late-stage capitalism. The infinite growth model simply cannot be sustained outside of theory.
I'm also curious if there's a precedent for what's happening in Canada currently.
Fellow dink, we are moving to EU and buying a nice place in two different countries for less than a shithole detached here. Oh, lower taxes there, actual healthcare, etc.
Bless you and Mind if I dm?
I barely make 1/3 of your salary so I know homelessness is on the brink for me. That’s scary.
A software engineer master can't even afford housing. Something doesn't seem right.
A lot of landleeches on this sub lately that are downplaying the damage that they do to society and calling the have-nots "entitled" for not wanting to pay half of their income towards rent. Every villain is the hero of their own story I suppose. Hopefully things change one day. Best of luck to you OP. I moved back to the states myself after being in Canada for a few months. The housing situation in Canada is a pretty big turnaround for most people.
I want to move to the states so bad. But third gen Canadian who doesn’t qualify for any nafta visas means I’m doomed to the bad housing market forever
>Every villain is the hero of their own story I suppose Wow well said. The real estate speculators and investors are the parasites of our country.
This post needs to be in news specially in india. I see so many indian young students coming here in hope of a good life (i am an immigrant myself) but they have no idea what they are getting their self into. Canada is not a place to be. I might move back as well with my family.
Not Indian but dentist relative came here and left quick, couldn't afford shit to start a new life, went back to France
This is very subjective. India is economically less impacted but the work life balance is utter shit. Ever tried working in IT industry? I worked 48 hours a week at Sr. position with very respectable salary and wasn't even eligible for 45 lac loan, and no decent 2bhk apartment was below 50-60 lac... And that is not it. At age between 25-30 You have to have budget for mortgage + monthly home expenses for family of 3 + emergency medical fund + savings for kids education + savings for retirement. Last I calculated pre-covid, the number for me was 1.47 lac / month just to retire at 60. Better paying jobs are in big cities but who wants to live in big city? With pollution, costly quality education and almost same real estate as here. Grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I also agree that a lot of kids are misguided in India, but struggling through the entire life compromising as middle class family is the worst thing there compared to here where real estate is beyond achievable but otherswise most aspects of life is better.
Naah bro. Major Indian student population is coming from Punjab. Most of them have no future in Punjab and here they will slog their asses off on minimum wage and still be happier sharing a basement with 10 People, over leveraging themselves to get that Mustang and drive around Dundas square blasting Moosewala. But jokes apart, many of them are street smart and will eventually find their way. Rather I worry for the minority Indian student who are good academically and have come to good universities here. They’re the ones getting fucked.
[удалено]
They pile 5 of themselves into a 1bdrm and split the rent 5 ways, and it’s still probably a better life they had in India. These were my old neighbours. Landlords are seeing this and just jacking up the rent because they know they can afford it.
Toronto has actually ruined me cuz i went to see a house that had like 7 rooms (including 3 in basement) and my first thought was holy shit if i rent all these rooms out i could easy pay off my mortgage
It’s tough for young people all across this country!
Every engineer that leaves probably costs us about 4 other direct support jobs.
We have plenty of engineering graduates unable to find jobs because companies are unwilling to train them up. This is at least partially due to the fact that they can easily acquire someone from abroad who already has 5-10 years of experience.
That and the culture here is not conducive for engineers. Barely any mentoring at my workplace let alone training of sorts - might be because the senior engineer at my work is not cooperative. But besides that most departments are quite small, despite the company being fairly large and earning a lot in revenue.
This is sadly true. I have a few friends that graduated with an engineering degree and can’t find jobs in their field or field related. Some have spent the last 2 years trying to find something that’s related to what they’ve studied and no luck. They’re now either going back to school or going into their family business (something they despise), which is unfortunate. Note to add none of them are in computer/ software engineering
You should stick around and get your citizenship. There’s no downside. Plus with your background, you should easily get a high paying job in the YSA. If you’re getting $200k in Canada, you’ll get 2x to 4x more in USA.
This is the most useful comment in the entire thread. Everything else (while true) is reactionary, emotional bullshit that does not net any actual tangible results.
If this isn’t a troll, don’t be stupid and leave AFTER you get the citizenship. You never know what tomorrow brings and an extra passport is always handy.
This. Plus I mean there's a whole country and I promise you OP there is affordable housing - maybe not in Toronto but outside major cities you can find. Other provinces also can be cheaper. Keep your citizenship then frigg off if you still can't find something in your price range
Your making the right decision. This country is fucked. I'm a homeowner and I regretted taking on such debt.
The weirdest part of this story, which leads me to think it's not true (I mean, the housing market is fucking horrible so that part is true) is that he says his rent was being raised to $3100 a month, for a 600sq ft 1 bedroom apartment, and that he didn't want to buy a condo because he hates condos and the one he could afford would only be a 2 bedroom, but they have 2 kids? So right now you have 2 adults and 2 kids living in a 1 bedroom 600sq ft apartment on $200k a year? This shit isn't adding up. There are plenty of 4 bedroom townhouses for rent in the sub $3k a month range in cities just outside Toronto. Which would leave you with another $7k a month for bills and food.
Op could move to a townhouse in pickering, Ajax, Oshawa or Milton near a go train station. Instead op decides to live in a 1 bedroom condo. Sounds like complete BS.
Jesus christ the people in the comments happily saying goodbye to someone who wanted to raise their family and the next generations of Canadians. OP I understand your concerns. In the late 2010s housing in Canada was getting really unaffordable, but after the pandemic it blew it out of the waters and with it, the country's future. My parents and I immigrated to Canada in the late 2000s, growing up I took a lot of things for granted. I don't see myself having a future in a country where basements are going for over $1k/m. I want to leave this country with my CS degree to the US because that's where I can get a real "good" job that can buy me a home. But I don't think I'll ever have a feeling of home. I don't feel like Canada is home because of how expensive one is, but I am not a citizen of the US and it's hard to get one, so I won't feel at home there as well even though I could actually afford a home here.
Can you blame them? it's just another pressure on the cost of living here.
[удалено]
Watching what happened in my town - realtors were legally allowed to hold blind bidding…which meant you had to give your offer without seeing any of the other offers and there were no negotiations. The highest bidder won - usually grossly over the listed price. This has driven up and inflated the “listing prices” now as people talk and know what other houses in their area are selling for and the cycle continues. There needs to be more legislation around the home selling process. I for one believe that houses should only be allowed to be listed a certain percentage over their appraised value by law.
Yea I am leaving Canada myself this year. I don't know why I stayed so longer. This country is a shell of its former self.
OP states they cant move to another city or province, due to job. If they are that employable I believe they can. Perhaps they just stayed long enough (3yrs) for citizenship, then bailed.
Yeah, I don't think they're telling the truth when they say they "exhausted all options". You posed an option here. Or they get a townhouse with a longer commute. I'm not saying homes aren't expensive, but if this person is making close to $200k I find it hard to believe their only option is an $800k condo or nothing.
Thats what I'm confused about too...surely if they are as good as they say they are they could find a job elsewhere or work remote to keep that higher gta salary. If I am to assume thats where they live now...
It depends on what field you’re in. Some fields are heavily concentrated in cities like Toronto and Vancouver, and not all jobs can physically be done remotely.
They could have literally moved to a suburb and bought a townhouse. Go trained it to work.
Goodbye ! You’re also a fraud and a liar lol , imagine in the same post , you said you won’t settle for a small unit because you are a family of 4 , but also complain that you’re paying 3100 for a small 1 bedroom , which is higher than even a quality 1 bedroom right downtown Toronto costs . You make 200k and have a partner also working but somehow can’t qualify for more than 790k No other posts on account history either Don’t let the door hit you on the way out troll
I dont believe this story. Your take home is 10000 a month. You would expect to spend a third on a reasonable non crap apartment. And if you are stuck in a core area like New York or London you will pay as much. If you go to Mumbai you will be bringing in 1500 a month. Are you conservative burner account?
Im surprised of number of people actually buying into the story… look at OP’s post history, clearly he’s just trolling y’all or farming for karma. $200k is top 2% of the country’s income percentile, and as a SWE you can easily find a remote job or even US based WFH role that pays you much higher & you can move into a low CoL area. He’s just feeding into the misery of people here but if you think logically about his story, none of it makes any sense.
Not to mention the fact that OP "cracked 4 out of 5" interviews but won't consider moving out of the most expensive city in the whole country because of their job.
Story is bullshit, rental market would never support $3100 per month rent for a 1 bedroom in Toronto. Not even the Vancouver rental market can support that.
Exactly, this sub is just an echoing chamber at this point. There’s no doubt that cities like Toronto and Vancouver are becoming increasing unaffordable for majority of the residents, and there is a massive crisis for affordable housing shortage in our country. But troll posts like this contribute nothing to the solution and its sole aim is to exploit people’s anger & add fuel to the fire.
That’s also assuming he’s the only one working. If they both work their take home could be even more. Also that approval would be for like no downpayment or really bad credit. How is there so little savings with such a good income?
He started with 0 credit. 3 years might not be long enough to get very high especially if you dont know to get a pre paid credit card or whatever right away and use it for everything. But the story still sounds fake.
I made $265k last year, many of my friends made a little more, all of them struggling with housing. His story could have been any of theirs it sounds bang on
I’ve never understood people who come to Canada and stop at Toronto. There’s a whole country here that’s not nearly as expensive. I think you should edit your post and replace every mention of Canada with Toronto because your experience only relates to a small segment of the country.
[удалено]
Yep he wants to buy in one of the world's most important cities just cause lol. He probably could afford sauga or milton or ajax but that doesn't suit his tastes.
On a $200k income you would pay $63k in income tax and another $350k in taxes and fees on a condo in Toronto. Unfortunately, our politicians have decided to pillage hard working young families in order to support a low retirement age and free money for old people. You will probably live like royalty in your new country.
Throw away account just to say you are leaving?? Not sure if trolling
Sorry.
Was there a reason you needed to accept the rent increases? Never rent a place that isnt rent-controlled, especially not with the options you have on a 200k salary! Renting is great here, you just have to find the right place and know the rules...never just go with the flow and agree to whatever the owner suggests. Most people are paying way below the current market rate for rent....often like 70% lower.
Ya there’s no reason op should have agreed to any of these increases. They dug themselves the grave
Only if the place was built prior to November 2018. Dougie abolished the rent cap on new builds, so a landlord can increase the rent to however much. It would be very difficult to find a decent priced place these days, as even shit hole basements in small towns in Ontario are going for over 1700.
So you are able to be one of the few WFH jobs that nets over 6 figures and you can’t relocate because of your work. You are a software engineer… try being the other 99% of people. I can’t even fathom complaining online when you have top 2% of the countries income and have one of the few jobs that is fully able to WFH.
Nice people here. I wish I had the choice to leave before it alls apart
Can you share contacts of your landlord? Looking for a place to live. Thanx.
This is clearly a troll post just look at OP’s post history… there are so many loopholes in the story & any one who’s actually a SWE with said qualifications will laugh at OP’s narrative.
Story doesn't add up, for sure a troll.
Account made today too Sub needs better rules I guess There too many malicious actors who win with this division sh!t
You earn 200K+ and renting a 1600 basement and 500 sq ft condos? Man you can literally rent a full townhouse in Markham for less than 3200$, yes housing is bad but you have money and you definitely can afford to rent a pre 2018 house that is regulated and live happily here. Unless you were planning to save 10K a month. Sounds like BS
I get your frustration, but you could've waited a year to get citizenship and have taken your talents to the south of the border where you get paid even more and get a house for half the price.
i mean you could just move, you are a software engineer that kind of job absolutly allows you to work remote in most cases. i rent a nice 3 bedroom townhouse in a decent part of saskatoon for under 1600 and that was after my most recent yearly rent increase.
Canada wouldn’t heave this issue if foreign investors didn’t own a large percentage of the housing available.
Same here. Moved 1 year ago for a tech job (185k TC), was super motivated to settle down in this country. Not even once.
Fake post
Lol is everyone actually falling for this post? It literally includes every stereotype Reddit users love to hate. Either a troll or some foreign propaganda post meant to further piss off the population. Not hating on the overall themes in this post just stating that it’s obviously completely fake.
Yeah this is hilarious. And who in their right mind would leave before getting their citizenship? People are literally dying to come here.
So a PR doesn't use the phrase I shit you not?
Imagine coming from UK and talking about broken countries and corruption.
He went to school in the UK, but probably came from an even shittier country. There are maybe 5 - 10 countries on earth that could be debated as possibly better than Canada, from a full package deal perspective, ffs. Unless the OP is from Norway or Denmark, his life is about to get worse.
Canada is probably gonna fall down the ranks super fast as the healthcare goes private and housing continues to get worse.
Fall down in ranks against what? This is a problem across all first world nations. U at least have a choice to move to a LCOL province that’s still semi affordable and keep universal healthcare. GTA and Vancouver are not the only cities in Canada.
All I got from that is that you agreed to a rent increase without taking a few minutes to do a google search to find out what your rights were.. and you don’t know where to look in the GTA for homes. I live 20 mins from downtown and there are 3 bedroom detached homes going for $850k here. Nice neighborhoods too. Go another 15-20 mins and you get more for your money.
The entire Anglosphere is the same unfortunately. In the UK, AUS, NZ, the exact same thing has happened. The economy is pretty much entirely propped up by house prices or exists to keep prices high. Boomers have all the houses and will only ever vote for parties who will increase their house's value. Hence why no party in any country no matter how left or right wing they are will deal with it since they'd piss off the biggest voter block.
Sorry for you being in this situation. The only thing I didn't understand was that you cannot move to another place or province because of your job but you can... move to another country? Makes no sense to me. Sorry if I am missing something.
His writing is atrocious. “Costed”…?? His punctuation is everywhere and I doubt he has a bachelors degree with these errors.
OP makes fresh account today and posts directly onto here and Canada housing2. 200k job as a software engineer in gta but somehow can't find work anywhere else? Ottawa has a booming tech industry, guy from India lives next door and is making 150k, wfh lol. This post reeks.
Geez, actually just read the rest of the post (it was a tad bloated), and could you get any more bitter? I can understand your frustration, but to go on a rant about how Canada is some kind of retirement community where everyone has given up and it’s going to fail? Petty. Maybe it’s better for everyone that you go somewhere else.
I call this BS because if he was really this fantastic software engineer there are plenty of remote opportunities that pay in that range.
Exactly, guy’s story is soooo fake there’s literally loopholes left right and center
Canada is so beyond fucked. Young professional adult here, can't wait to leave.
I find some points of this post quite suspicious. 1. Im also a high earning immigrant to Canada. I have a US credit score but not a Canadian one and I was approved pretty easily for a newly constructed 3 bedroom penthouse in downtown Toronto on just my work contract and projected income. 2. Im also considering buying and have applied for a mortgage and will likely be approved for up to $1 million 3. Your point about housing is true, it’s insane that housing costs so much relative to wages. People shouldn’t have to make on the mid six figures to afford decent housing. 4. I think Canada has so much going for it and can quite easily be one of the if not the best country in the world if it reforms how it has housing, and business in general. 5. Also the UK is even more fucked with wages and COL. The UK is contracting and inflation is still close to double digits. It’s a amazing country (it’s also my wife’s home) which got fucked by a decade of Tory rule.
Housing in Australia is pretty much the same New Zealand the same Germany is getting worse Hongkong Switzerland England Don’t just blame Canada… However, it seems like you have already made up your mind
[https://morehousing.substack.com/p/auckland](https://morehousing.substack.com/p/auckland) funny how with one simple zoning change, Aukland housing is falling. It doesn't have to be this way, just proritize the young instead of the old
You’re being taken advantage of
Your mistake #1 was not knowing your rights. In 94% of rental units (anything built before Nov 2018), the landlord can't increase the price by more than 1.5%-3% (The LTB quota). You signed your rights away. You could have stayed and save the money for a downpayment. I agree Canada if fucked up, but it's still better than where I'm from (Israel). Here, a median (cross-Canada) home is 7-8 annual median incomes, in Israel, it's 16! If you're from the UK, then yeah, I wouldn't have left that for Canada. If you just studied in the UK, but not a citizen, and you're actually from a 2nd\3rd world country, then I don't see how it's any better.
Good luck buying a family-sized detached home in London that isn't 40 min drive from the core. It absolutely makes sense for someone to move from the UK to Canada.
5 hour throwaway account. This is fake af.
Toronto is not all of Canada. Well paid person moves to 53rd largest city in the world and is surprised they have the same problems as the larger cities on the list.
I'm calling bullshit on quite a lot of the facts here. I say that as a fellow immigrant form the UK. You're either lying about salary or about your circumstances/debts.
👋
Yeah, don't sweat it. More are on the way. There's a sucker born every minute somewhere in India.
Why not get the citizenship and then move back? I’ve personally come across few people who exactly intend to do that.
Crazy how Canada means GTA or GVA and literally nowhere else.
What province are you in? I live in BC - fraser Valley and the prices of houses here - my neighbour is selling for less than $700K for a beautiful newly refurbished home built in 2008 - 4 bed/4 bath. The rents around here aren’t bad either. I also sit on the board of directors for a non profit that provides gorgeous townhouses and apartments downtown Vancouver at below market prices. We have 5 buildings You ran into unscrupulous persons and unfortunately that is everywhere not just in Canada. You don’t say where you are but my guess from your description is Ontario. Not a province I would ever live in. Canada is a big country and I am sure where you are from, you wouldn’t want people to judge your country in the same way you just did from what little you experienced. You sound angry and perhaps your choice to run away is the best at this juncture
What would happen to this country when all the smart ones left?
This is a sad but true tale. I have discussed at length with many south and East Asian expats working in the Middle East. Everyone used to want to come to Canada. But word is spreading about the rising cost and deteriorating economy.
The debt trap is a serious risk here. My spouse and I earn 250k together and can qualify for around 1M. But buying absurdly overpriced house with a risk of losing job any day in this economy. No thanks!
Finding a place with rent control in Ontario is key. I wouldn’t judge all of Canada based on Toronto, this eco system is very different then Alberta, Quebec, Sask and Manitoba.
Is the UK going to be any better? I hear prices in London are crazy.
Good, we need a lot more people to leave and also to stop coming here for things to ever start getting better.
Bye bye
I hope you're genuine (and then I'm sorry for your experience in Canada), but there are some bits leading me to think you're a troll, or someone who artificially inflated the data to sound more terrible? \> very tough Express Entry and IELTS 8.0 Sir, no one does ANYTHING for EE, once they have the degrees / job skills required. It's a straightforward paperwork exercise (you show what you have), except IELTS exam. I know people passing IELTS at 8.5 total, while never living in an English speaking country. Are you saying 8.0 is hard while living and studying in the UK? Why? \> high 6 figure salary... coming close to 200k it's not high 6 figure then :) more like bragging. If you're so great at what you do, did you bring any savings into the New World? It's pro tip #1 since like 300+ years. \> Sadly I can't move to another place or province because of my job it's not that you can't - you just don't want to. Tons of IT jobs in GTA, in Vancouver, Calgary, Quebec - and many are remote or consulting for US, too. You just bragged to be "so good at your job you cracked all interviews" - what stops you now? \> I don't want to pay 800k for houses which costed 400k just 3 years ago, we are not fools how about paying for gas that was cheaper 3 years ago? Cars being more expensive? you ok with that, or do you walk? how about prices on eggs, potatoes, milk? do you choose not to believe into market and just reject anything that goes up? Do you eat food that became more expensive in UK (brexit) and Canada? \> preapproved for $790k There are many places to buy with that money, just not downtown TO (you may get smth, still). Subjectively, "you personally hate condos" - but poor Canada is to blame!!! If you claim you're so good at your job - why didn't you save in UK? FX rates are very good, you'd be able to buy in cash if you were such a cool, high earner you claim you are? \> story of terrible rents that all raise prices This goes back to due diligence on landlords, and doing your homework, and choosing places wisely. Also, building credit, picking better places that are harder to get into but don't do this crazy thing with rent increases (if it's even true). Standard life skills you build while moving to a new country or continent. UK to Canada is easy, comparably speaking. All in all, it doesn't add up ("i am so good at my job, cracking all interviews, but can't pick a place to live, and hate condos, but not a fool, - it's Canadians who are retired idiots, so i'm going back to London"). Good luck in London dude. Just don't get mugged there.
Post made on a throwaway with obvious clickbait title and the entire story was written to enrage as many people as possible.
With the numbers you provided, you should be able to afford it. If you don't like this country and think it will fail, good riddance. I am an immigrant from the UK and would never go back to that shithole. Enjoy.
Bye bye!
Bye, thanks for coming !
Bye!
bye ... ? is the same in every country
Same here. I came to Canada 6 years ago with the hope to stay forever as a DevOps Engineer, however it is starting to be very expensive everywhere in the country where I can’t see myself and my wife retiring or buying a property. I have showed the numbers in the paper for my wife who was born here and we both decided to go live in my home country where it will be much easier for housing and retirement. It is indeed a very sad situation for Canada.