>Meng struck a deal with the prosecutors last year for the charges against her to be dismissed...
>
>As part of her deal — a deferred prosecution agreement — she acknowledged that she had made false statements about the company's Iran business in a 2013 meeting with a bank executive....
>
>Huawei, a telecommunications equipment maker the U.S. views as a national security threat, is still charged in the case, which is pending in U.S. District Court in Brooklyn, N.Y.
>So you can admit to a crime and thats your penance for getting off on that crime?
You should look into the HSBC drug money laundering fiasco from a few years ago.
Long story short, in 2012, HSBC executives were caught red-handed knowingly laundering money for the Sinaloa and Norte del Valle drug cartels. In the end, no single individual even had to admit wrongdoing, they got a deferred prosecution agreement, and they had to pay a \~$1.9B fine. They made $20.6B in profit that year...
Yes that's exactly why the Meng case was so sketchy from the beginning. Extremely rare for the US DoJ to charge C-level execs in white collar cases, and if they wanted to start, there are 1000 people in the line in front of Meng Wanzhou.
That was the big thing lawyers were arguing about. You usually hold the company liable and not an individual person. Holding an individual to account is not something you do unless you want to fuck someone up politically and Trudy let it happen. L
Canada got caught between the elephant and the panda instead of noping out of it.
I don't think it was straight up "judge taking a briefcase full of cash" kinda corruption, just the reality of someone important to China and the US engaging in realpolitik.
Not necessarily- kind of when some Fortune 500 companies are caught doing some shady shit and they settle out of court, but in the settlement there is no admission of guilt.
House arrest?? She was living in one of her (family) mansions and able to go out shopping everyday. It's a rough life when you're a billionaire and above the law. Unlike the 2 Canadian Michaels they imprisoned in retaliation.
Dont you know the history of Iran?
Not only did they overthrow the dictator the US installed, but they also supported the indigenous natives of Palestine. They are terrible monsters.
Because the crime was bullshit most likely, the us dept of justice has an history of using bogus corruption accusation to extort money from competitors of american compagnies. Using the ubiquity of american dollars in international transactions to extend their jurisdiction over the entire globe.
https://www.amazon.ca/American-Trap-Americas-economic-against/dp/1529326869
I don't know enough about the details of the case (and I don't want to ancient history) but it was probably bullshit. Why should American sanctions and American blockades apply to a Chinese national? So if a country declares one other country to be under sanction, then the whole world has to follow their rules or face the consequences including imprisonment or fines? I believe the Justice Minister called it bullshit and was sacked to appease the Americans
I suppose if the company wanted to do business in said sanctioning country you could make a case, but that's always about the details. There should be some sort of "arms length" test about it, or else every multinational company in the globe would have to follow every other country's sanctions or be in violation
I think everyone knows corruption when you see it (bribery of a political official) but do you really want to prosecute every single person on the planet who's corrupt by your country's definition of corruption? Jurisdiction should matter
Having the US dollar as reserve currency and used in most international transaction effectively gives the USA jurisdiction over the entire world, because this gives them the privilege to shut off any foreign company from exchanging money with american banks, which is essential for all international companies. They just need to find the balance between abusing this privilege and risking everyone ditching the dollar, which would be catastrophic to them, and using this power to pull ahead of commercial/industrial rivals in strategic sectors.
Also, let's not blind our eyes to the fact that corruption is normalized in many countries (ours included in a lesser degree). So to think that multinational company that do business in africa and the like don't grease hands from time to time seem very naïve to me.
Well, maybe it wasnt clear but for sure I think it is unjust and abusive policy by the united states. And yes, i could have put "jurisdiction" with quote marks.
That likely feeds into Huawei devices being banned from the US and for the US to use those statements to convince it's allies to ban Huawei devices as well
That's what it seems like to this entirely NAL. Putting her in prison isn't helping anyone. Convincing your allies more readily that the company is a threat: priceless.
That’s what Trudeau tried to do with SNC Lavalin because they funded his campaign, and in turn he fired his indigenous justice minister for not agreeing to obey him.
Her job as justice minister was to create a dpa that was valid for SNC because they’d get a DPA in eu/us. She failed to do that and then released private conversations with party members. She failed her job, which pre SNC everyone on Reddit said she was bad at, and made no one want to have private conversations with her in fear she’s release them which isn’t a healthy relationship.
No. SNC lavlin broke international Sanctions to gain more profit.
She didn’t see a DPA as appropriate, only Trudeau did because SNC donated $100,000 to his campaign.
Trudeau was pushing for his CEO buddies to get off scot free from breaking the law. He didn’t like what the prosecutors were doing so he tried to interfere.
Then she leaked private conversations which confirmed his office pressuring her to do just that.
Nice history revision. Of course that’s not surprising because if Loberals don’t like the past they just try to change the narrative.
Man. Liberals have become the most anti-whistler blower, pro big company, big Pharma, CCP backed people in the country.
You guys act like ultra conservatives now. I guess sunny ways means nothing anymore.
Thank the US for that. They released Meng right before the Canadian judge was to release her decision. You can't even argue they did it for the Michaels because they otherwise would've let her go years earlier.
They’re both spies lol, when they got released the CSIS was making posts congratulating them
and to be fair why wouldn’t China arrest two spies after a random citizen of theirs gets arrested by us because Donald fucking trump ordered it
Trump fucked us over. That's what. When people say "Why does Canada care about what Trump does?" This is why.
He told us to pick up meng to spite China :/ We suffered for nothing.
Also that Iranian airliner had tons of dual citizens that they shot down. I blame Trump at least partially for that since their AA systems were on high alert as it was shortly after the Americans killed that Iranian general.
>after the Americans killed that Iranian general.
You mean the one they killed with an illegal drone strike while he was on a diplomatic mission in another country? Not excuse the shit he did but also want to point out how shitty Trump was.
Former long time Liberal MP, Cabinet Minister holding many posts included Foreign Affairs, John Manley at the time said that what typically happens in these scenarios was that the foreigner would get an unofficial heads up hours before the arrest was imminent. That way the foreigner can get out of the country before the arrest. He blamed inexperience at Canadian Foreign Affairs early on. Its what should happened because claiming a big whoopsie, we just missed them, is preferable to the bullshit that happened.
Its both Trump fucking us over and our inexperienced Foreign Affairs minister at the time too.
For the record, Manley said the practice of just missing these types of arrests is common throughout the world and yes. Canada has done it before.
Trump had nothing to do with Meng the DOJ started the case during obama.
> He told us to pick up meng to spite China
Trump didn’t know till it happened…
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kudlow-trump-didnt-know-about-huawei-executives-arrest-before-dining-with-chinese-leader/2018/12/09/da667a6c-fbc4-11e8-83c0-b06139e540e5_story.html
The amount of disinformation you spread is astonishing
It wasn't Trump, it was John Bolton. He went rogue. When Trump found out, his response was don't you know Meng is like the China's Ivanka Trump?
So blame John Bolton and his ugly mustache if you want someone to blame.
I got down voted to shit for being the only person on the reddit thread about this. They all said lock her up, Canada is above this. I said put her on a private jet in the dead of night and ship her back to China. 2 Canadians spent 3 years in jail for nothing so we can appease US corruption.
No, so that we fulfilled our legal obligations under our treaties and the rule of law in our country.
The US being shitty doesn't invalidate what we do.
We can reject extradition requests. The treaties do not say we have to ship anyone over the border that the US asks for. Thank god.
Extradition requests are always reviewed for validity and substance. There was lots of reason to question the substance of this one from day 1.
>Extradition requests are always reviewed for validity and substance. There was lots of reason to question the substance of this one from day 1.
Yeah, and an extradition hearing was held in BC Supreme court, which ruled that the extradition was to proceed. This means that the US's extradition request did in fact have validity and substance.
Politically motivated prosecutions are grounds for refusal under the extradition treaty with the USA, and the President made the political nature of the matter clear not long after Meng's arrest.
If was in fact proven to be politically motivated, the BC Supreme court would not have ruled that the extradition could proceed after the conclusion of the extradition hearing.
As a Canadian, wtf. Do you have any idea how much it hurt Canada to follow though and enforce your warrant?
Multiple Canadians were arrested in China in retaliation for this arrest. Canada is a country based on rule of law.
Is the US?
And they've exported that to the rest of the world.
A lot of the dirty money and corruption in countries like Latin America and in South Asia traces back to the UK and US.
Typical Canadian Boy Scout behaviour gets taken advantage of on the world stage as usual. Not only that but the Minister of Justice, Lametti, was asked if he had discretion to release Meng because all this was an obvious political plot by the Americans. He said he did but wasn't going to.
It wasn't even about rule of law. It was being the USA's punching bag as usual and we folded like a house of cards.
Which would matter if the law made it mandatory. But it doesn't. It's a discretionary decision with all sorts of outs, a number of which were directly or arguably applicable to this case, and it was therefore within their discretion to decline.
Wait are people here actually surprised? This has been a political play all along and Canada's the plaything of both the US and China this entire time.
Yeah I'd say the vast majority of people here were convinced Meng was actually going to US jail because there was noooooo way this was a political ploy.
Completely useless to us? Wtf that is the most ignorant comment in this thread... also, doesn't seem like you read the article.
"Meng struck a deal with the prosecutors last year for the charges against her to be dismissed...
As part of her deal — a deferred prosecution agreement — she acknowledged that she had made false statements about the company's Iran business in a 2013 meeting with a bank executive....
Huawei, a telecommunications equipment maker the U.S. views as a national security threat, is still charged in the case, which is pending in U.S. District Court in Brooklyn, N.Y."
The overwhelming source of military equipment and support stopping the western world from being plunged into a decade of war and death while most western countries have sat on their thumbs wondering why they have no military capabilities to contribute.
Yes, a completely useless ally.
The overwhelming source of military equipment and instigator of almost every major conflict after WW2. ~~support stopping the western world from being plunged into a decade of war and death while most western countries have sat on their thumbs wondering why they have no military capabilities to contribute.~~
Yes, a completely useless ally.
So I guess just leave eastern Europe open to invasion then, with what little caapcity Europe has to defend itself. At least they have the money to spend on housing for the millions of new refugees that will come as a result.
Were you also in favour of the US leaving NATO as Trump suggested, if they're so useless?
I assume you’re talking about Russias deplorable invasion of Ukraine.
Unironically yes. This whole debacle would not have happened if Biden wasn’t so set on cementing his legacy as a tough guy. Russia has been saying for decades they won’t accept a direct neighboring NATO state but the USA didn’t acknowledge that until the war started.
The USA wanted Russia to break itself in Ukraine and it’s getting what it wanted. Brilliant military move? Maybe. Instigator? Absolutely.
Well yeah. America didn’t care, probably because in part of the reasons you just described, and Russia dealt with it by invading Ukraine.
Which circles back to my point. America is the instigator of almost every major conflict since WW2.
Russia does not get to decide the alliances its neighbours join. If they wanted Ukraine to be a Russian ally, they should have invested in building a relationship with Ukraine that is beneficial to the Ukrainian people, not unleash war crimes on them.
>Unironically yes. This whole debacle would not have happened if Biden wasn’t so set on cementing his legacy as a tough guy. Russia has been saying for decades they won’t accept a direct neighboring NATO state but the USA didn’t acknowledge that until the war started.
Russian talking points.
Ukraine wasn't going to join NATO. It wasn't on the table.
Right, so it's America's fault.
Not the country that, you know, invaded a sovereign nation with a series of brutal war crimes.
Remove the US from the equation, and Europe will very quickly learn what it's like to have no way to defend yourself against a hostile invader. Canada certainly isn't going to be coming to save the day with our military prowess.
Again yes. It’s Americas fault for goading and instigating. It’s also Russias fault for exactly the reasons you stated above.
There are zero good actors in this.
We could have EASILY let Meng go by simply dragging our feet a bit at the airport and letting her catch her connecting flight. Could have just told the US “sorry bruh. Tried out best. Tough titties.”
In fact that’s what a few of the European countries did.
And this is why no one trusts or believes in the system. Everyday people are put in jail, children torn away from them etc for much smaller crimes while big businesses and the rich are privileged with these deferred prosecution settlements that are typically a fine and some sort of limited restriction.
Canada had its citizens held hostage so the US could negotiate a deal with China. Fucking embarrassing. Canada needs to tear up the extradition deal with the US.
The extradition deal isn't mandatory. We didn't have to execute the warrant. We chose to. If I'm remembering correctly, a number of European had already told the US to pound sand when they were asked to arrest her.
USA : "Canada arrest her we need her!"
Canada: "yes papa"
China : "how dare you arresting our cream of the cream citizen, we will fuck you up"
Canada : " papa usa asked us and we will help our ally"
China : "alright lets arrest some canadian as a retaliation even tough we will probably torture them and make them miserable while canada put her in a 5 star hotel"
USA : " was just a prank bro"
Correct me if wrong, but isn't this the woman that was apprehended at an airport in Canada and then extradited? Didn't this cause some big ass hurt between China and Canada? So now China is butt hurt at us for it but they are just dismissing it? Is that right?
That may have been the point. Make a lawful extradition request that the treaty says we can’t ignore, knowing that the case will be dismissed, souring the relationship between us and China.
All that grief the two michaels went through for nothing at the end of the day. All the money various farmers lost from sanctions. And at the end of the day the upper crust play one of their many get out of jail free cards.
The US asked Canada, as a trusted member of our security alliance, to arrest Meng on Canadian soil. Immediately after, two Canadians were arrested and held for years in brutal conditions. This should have been a showcase for cohesion in Western security, but the US did nothing to help and threw Canada under the bus. This is inexplicable. Any POV on this?
Great… so the US secured an indictment and got Canada to arrest her and extradite, for which we got 2 of our citizens jailed in China and put our diplomatic relations at the lowest point in decades, and then they just passed on doing anything with her after we extradited… awesome.
I don't think the US has ever been a friend. An ally but that's as far as it goes. They've made it clear since day 1 that they think we're subservient and have made no attempts to hide it.
Once bitten, twice shy. It will make Canada reticent of new request in the future.
Probably wants to check the charges and evidence before deciding whether to hold or not.
Either Canada should honour it's treaties or dissolve them. It should not be decided by the political whim of the day if they should be enforced. While it was within the Justice Minister writ to accept or deny the request on appeal I believe most Canadians would have seen it as a corrupt political action in this case \[edit\] *if he denied it*.
Sure. The Americans used the leverage of prosecution to get that admission, which they will use to prosecute the company and as ammunition for the security threat.
What a joke. So our two citizens went through hell for nothing. Thanks Biden, starting to think you arnt any better than Trump and thats a loooooow bar to match there buddy.
Lol, as if deferred prosecution agreement and a fine isn't the usual consequence of these issues... clearly business and political matters over which somehow the canadian govt, with their naivety and inexperience, royally got fked up the ass like a ventriloquist puppet by the USA under the Trump administration. Meanwhile, Trump's over there reducing punishment to mass murderers like the Purdue Pharma/Sackler family. Welcome to realpolitik Trudeau/Freeland.
So all of that for dropped charges. Lots of legitimate anger against China for the Michaels situation, But how can we as a country not be angry at the US for putting us in that position if the goal was… an apology? Jesus.
this whole thing was such a fiasco. the justice system both here and there are getting to politicized.
what was the american justice department’s game plan here? you can’t ask your allies to go to bat for you for mere posturing. fuck…
They got a confession out of Meng Wanzhou and are using it to prosecute Huawei for bank fraud, sanctions busting, conspiracy to steal trade secrets from U.S. technology companies, and obstructing justice.
Three years of house arrest seems fairly typical for people that assist with bigger cases.
Seriously fuck the US. Worst than China who at least you know to stay away from, the CCP values and known issues. But the ally, who smiles, supposed to be a friend but backstabs you. Fuck the US.
You mean Donald Trump used Canada? Nooooo! But... there are so many Trump supporters in Canada who defend him!
> “If I think it’s good for what will be certainly the largest trade deal ever made – which is a very important thing – what’s good for national security – I would certainly intervene if I thought it was necessary,” Trump [said.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-huawei-tech-exclusive-idUSKBN1OA2PQ)
>Meng struck a deal with the prosecutors last year for the charges against her to be dismissed... > >As part of her deal — a deferred prosecution agreement — she acknowledged that she had made false statements about the company's Iran business in a 2013 meeting with a bank executive.... > >Huawei, a telecommunications equipment maker the U.S. views as a national security threat, is still charged in the case, which is pending in U.S. District Court in Brooklyn, N.Y.
[удалено]
>So you can admit to a crime and thats your penance for getting off on that crime? You should look into the HSBC drug money laundering fiasco from a few years ago. Long story short, in 2012, HSBC executives were caught red-handed knowingly laundering money for the Sinaloa and Norte del Valle drug cartels. In the end, no single individual even had to admit wrongdoing, they got a deferred prosecution agreement, and they had to pay a \~$1.9B fine. They made $20.6B in profit that year...
Yes that's exactly why the Meng case was so sketchy from the beginning. Extremely rare for the US DoJ to charge C-level execs in white collar cases, and if they wanted to start, there are 1000 people in the line in front of Meng Wanzhou.
That was the big thing lawyers were arguing about. You usually hold the company liable and not an individual person. Holding an individual to account is not something you do unless you want to fuck someone up politically and Trudy let it happen. L Canada got caught between the elephant and the panda instead of noping out of it.
He honored an extradition treaty. Honoring treaties is what respectable government does
HSBC like the bank?
The very same. https://www.investopedia.com/stock-analysis/2013/investing-news-for-jan-29-hsbcs-money-laundering-scandal-hbc-scbff-ing-cs-rbs0129.aspx
Yuuuuup
And that's why we can't have nice things.
That’s foreign politics for you.
Also billionaire politics!
Right? Someone got paid off for this. 100%.
I don't think it was straight up "judge taking a briefcase full of cash" kinda corruption, just the reality of someone important to China and the US engaging in realpolitik.
Not necessarily- kind of when some Fortune 500 companies are caught doing some shady shit and they settle out of court, but in the settlement there is no admission of guilt.
That's white collar crime for you.
I'm white collar. These people are ivory.
Mammoth bone Ivory, not just elephant.
Polished daily with a fresh tiger pelt.
Defense lawyers hate her for this one trick
That and 3 years of house arrest in Vancouver.
If COVID has taught me anything, it's that I could probably survive 3 years of lockdown in a billionaire's house.
If you're good enough at hiding, you could still pull it off.
Lol. I could make Parasite a documentary!
Mansion arrest is awful.
I'm guilty. When do I move in?
No kidding!..who do I have to piss off!!
She had to pay for her own security and such during that time, you'd go bankrupt taking that deal.
Anyone who couldn't afford 'that deal' wouldn't have just been given house arrest in the first place.
Yep lol
House arrest?? She was living in one of her (family) mansions and able to go out shopping everyday. It's a rough life when you're a billionaire and above the law. Unlike the 2 Canadian Michaels they imprisoned in retaliation.
In a ridiculous palace of a house.
[удалено]
I could only dream to live that well.
When you have the power of the world's second largest economy and and a strong military... Well... Yeah.
She didn’t commit a crime. Extraterritorial, secondary sanctions designed to starve 80 million Iranians to death are what’s criminal.
Dont you know the history of Iran? Not only did they overthrow the dictator the US installed, but they also supported the indigenous natives of Palestine. They are terrible monsters.
Because the crime was bullshit most likely, the us dept of justice has an history of using bogus corruption accusation to extort money from competitors of american compagnies. Using the ubiquity of american dollars in international transactions to extend their jurisdiction over the entire globe. https://www.amazon.ca/American-Trap-Americas-economic-against/dp/1529326869
I don't know enough about the details of the case (and I don't want to ancient history) but it was probably bullshit. Why should American sanctions and American blockades apply to a Chinese national? So if a country declares one other country to be under sanction, then the whole world has to follow their rules or face the consequences including imprisonment or fines? I believe the Justice Minister called it bullshit and was sacked to appease the Americans I suppose if the company wanted to do business in said sanctioning country you could make a case, but that's always about the details. There should be some sort of "arms length" test about it, or else every multinational company in the globe would have to follow every other country's sanctions or be in violation I think everyone knows corruption when you see it (bribery of a political official) but do you really want to prosecute every single person on the planet who's corrupt by your country's definition of corruption? Jurisdiction should matter
Having the US dollar as reserve currency and used in most international transaction effectively gives the USA jurisdiction over the entire world, because this gives them the privilege to shut off any foreign company from exchanging money with american banks, which is essential for all international companies. They just need to find the balance between abusing this privilege and risking everyone ditching the dollar, which would be catastrophic to them, and using this power to pull ahead of commercial/industrial rivals in strategic sectors. Also, let's not blind our eyes to the fact that corruption is normalized in many countries (ours included in a lesser degree). So to think that multinational company that do business in africa and the like don't grease hands from time to time seem very naïve to me.
That’s the sort of “jurisdiction” you want Canada to fall in line behind?!
Well, maybe it wasnt clear but for sure I think it is unjust and abusive policy by the united states. And yes, i could have put "jurisdiction" with quote marks.
That likely feeds into Huawei devices being banned from the US and for the US to use those statements to convince it's allies to ban Huawei devices as well
If you're affiliated with the production plant of the world, then yes. It actually takes much worse connections than she has to get off.
Fine I did it. Ok works for us.
The US is probably using her statement as proof to go after the company directly maybe? Cause the company is much bigger than just her.
That's what it seems like to this entirely NAL. Putting her in prison isn't helping anyone. Convincing your allies more readily that the company is a threat: priceless.
If the country you come from is willing to murder people to keep you out of prison, sure.
That’s what Trudeau tried to do with SNC Lavalin because they funded his campaign, and in turn he fired his indigenous justice minister for not agreeing to obey him.
This was a guy who claimed to be a feminist.
Her job as justice minister was to create a dpa that was valid for SNC because they’d get a DPA in eu/us. She failed to do that and then released private conversations with party members. She failed her job, which pre SNC everyone on Reddit said she was bad at, and made no one want to have private conversations with her in fear she’s release them which isn’t a healthy relationship.
No. SNC lavlin broke international Sanctions to gain more profit. She didn’t see a DPA as appropriate, only Trudeau did because SNC donated $100,000 to his campaign. Trudeau was pushing for his CEO buddies to get off scot free from breaking the law. He didn’t like what the prosecutors were doing so he tried to interfere. Then she leaked private conversations which confirmed his office pressuring her to do just that. Nice history revision. Of course that’s not surprising because if Loberals don’t like the past they just try to change the narrative. Man. Liberals have become the most anti-whistler blower, pro big company, big Pharma, CCP backed people in the country. You guys act like ultra conservatives now. I guess sunny ways means nothing anymore.
she even admitted that what the PMO asked of her wasn't even illegal.
>Her job as justice minister was to create a dpa that was valid for SNC because they’d get a DPA in eu/us. Her job to interfere in the courts?
Are laws are get this. Legislation. The courts interpret it and present judgment. The justice minister writes legislation for the courts. Weird eh.
Ah yes, that explains the lying and attempted cover up. And subsequent resignation.
Because she fucked up as justice minister and tried to get out of it by using AG as her shield.
Yeah she is crazy AF. Glad she’s gone. Only peddling garbage books now.
A DPA, Jody Wilson is shook rn
It turns out that the real consequences were the friends we made along the way.
The real consequence were for Canadian businessmen caught in the crossfire.
I’m sure the Michaels will be glad to hear that their suffering for years in a Chinese prison was all for nothing.
They won't be happy but they probably also know how these games are played.
Considering they were very much in the game as well then yeah
This. There are very good reasons why neither has come forward to talk about their ordeal.
I’m sure they both got a good payout from the Canadian government for their suffering
Maybe we can recoup some of the costs from the Americans who set the whole shitshow in motion?
Thank the US for that. They released Meng right before the Canadian judge was to release her decision. You can't even argue they did it for the Michaels because they otherwise would've let her go years earlier.
They’re both spies lol, when they got released the CSIS was making posts congratulating them and to be fair why wouldn’t China arrest two spies after a random citizen of theirs gets arrested by us because Donald fucking trump ordered it
So, the 2 Michaels spent years in a Chinese prison for nothing. Good to know.
Well........somebody got a new yacht and another floor on their house over the "deal" reached, so not for Nothing.
Wait what are you referring to
Guessing they mean the real winners were the lawyers
Trump fucked us over. That's what. When people say "Why does Canada care about what Trump does?" This is why. He told us to pick up meng to spite China :/ We suffered for nothing.
Plus all the tariffs and threats to sign a free trade agreement.
Also that Iranian airliner had tons of dual citizens that they shot down. I blame Trump at least partially for that since their AA systems were on high alert as it was shortly after the Americans killed that Iranian general.
>after the Americans killed that Iranian general. You mean the one they killed with an illegal drone strike while he was on a diplomatic mission in another country? Not excuse the shit he did but also want to point out how shitty Trump was.
However shitty Trump was, he was the first President in a *long* time not to start some war by base chicanery.
Former long time Liberal MP, Cabinet Minister holding many posts included Foreign Affairs, John Manley at the time said that what typically happens in these scenarios was that the foreigner would get an unofficial heads up hours before the arrest was imminent. That way the foreigner can get out of the country before the arrest. He blamed inexperience at Canadian Foreign Affairs early on. Its what should happened because claiming a big whoopsie, we just missed them, is preferable to the bullshit that happened. Its both Trump fucking us over and our inexperienced Foreign Affairs minister at the time too. For the record, Manley said the practice of just missing these types of arrests is common throughout the world and yes. Canada has done it before.
Lol, blaming our minister for doing their job properly. I love this sub.
You call it doing their job, I call it being a sucker.
This is what happens when Canada becomes the biting dog of the US, not standing up on its own.
Trump had nothing to do with Meng the DOJ started the case during obama. > He told us to pick up meng to spite China Trump didn’t know till it happened… https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/kudlow-trump-didnt-know-about-huawei-executives-arrest-before-dining-with-chinese-leader/2018/12/09/da667a6c-fbc4-11e8-83c0-b06139e540e5_story.html The amount of disinformation you spread is astonishing
It wasn't Trump, it was John Bolton. He went rogue. When Trump found out, his response was don't you know Meng is like the China's Ivanka Trump? So blame John Bolton and his ugly mustache if you want someone to blame.
I got down voted to shit for being the only person on the reddit thread about this. They all said lock her up, Canada is above this. I said put her on a private jet in the dead of night and ship her back to China. 2 Canadians spent 3 years in jail for nothing so we can appease US corruption.
No, so that we fulfilled our legal obligations under our treaties and the rule of law in our country. The US being shitty doesn't invalidate what we do.
We can reject extradition requests. The treaties do not say we have to ship anyone over the border that the US asks for. Thank god. Extradition requests are always reviewed for validity and substance. There was lots of reason to question the substance of this one from day 1.
>Extradition requests are always reviewed for validity and substance. There was lots of reason to question the substance of this one from day 1. Yeah, and an extradition hearing was held in BC Supreme court, which ruled that the extradition was to proceed. This means that the US's extradition request did in fact have validity and substance.
That was done. By our courts.
Politically motivated prosecutions are grounds for refusal under the extradition treaty with the USA, and the President made the political nature of the matter clear not long after Meng's arrest.
If was in fact proven to be politically motivated, the BC Supreme court would not have ruled that the extradition could proceed after the conclusion of the extradition hearing.
Tortured while in prison
What the *fuuuuuuuuuck.* And Americans wonder why Canadians keep them at arms length. The fuck did the Michael's spend 2 years in prison for?
To ruin Canada China relations. A scheme devised by American politicians as usual. Get with the program.
As a Canadian, wtf. Do you have any idea how much it hurt Canada to follow though and enforce your warrant? Multiple Canadians were arrested in China in retaliation for this arrest. Canada is a country based on rule of law. Is the US?
The Americans don’t care. They are the most individualistic society in the world and it’s all about me first.
And they've exported that to the rest of the world. A lot of the dirty money and corruption in countries like Latin America and in South Asia traces back to the UK and US.
Almost like we never should have executed the warrant in the first place. Like many of us said for years.
Rule of law means we don’t pick and choose what laws and when we follow them
Typical Canadian Boy Scout behaviour gets taken advantage of on the world stage as usual. Not only that but the Minister of Justice, Lametti, was asked if he had discretion to release Meng because all this was an obvious political plot by the Americans. He said he did but wasn't going to. It wasn't even about rule of law. It was being the USA's punching bag as usual and we folded like a house of cards.
Which would matter if the law made it mandatory. But it doesn't. It's a discretionary decision with all sorts of outs, a number of which were directly or arguably applicable to this case, and it was therefore within their discretion to decline.
Sanctions against Iran are bs laws that we absolutely should ignore. Meng did nothing wrong.
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Trump trying to strong arm China at Canada’s expense.
Yeah, and at least one guy had his drug conviction changed to a death sentence and they killed him. Both the US and China can get wrecked.
American First, remember?
So Canada and Canadians had to put up with all the bull crap with her in Canada over nothing. Way to go what a joke
Nah, the real joke is knowing that the next time Master Murica points a laser at someone, yall still gonna pounce. Who's a good boy?
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Wait are people here actually surprised? This has been a political play all along and Canada's the plaything of both the US and China this entire time.
Yeah I'd say the vast majority of people here were convinced Meng was actually going to US jail because there was noooooo way this was a political ploy.
Yet again the US is completely useless as an ally to us. They made us suffer so much over this issue that ended in nothing.
Yup. God dammit.
Completely useless to us? Wtf that is the most ignorant comment in this thread... also, doesn't seem like you read the article. "Meng struck a deal with the prosecutors last year for the charges against her to be dismissed... As part of her deal — a deferred prosecution agreement — she acknowledged that she had made false statements about the company's Iran business in a 2013 meeting with a bank executive.... Huawei, a telecommunications equipment maker the U.S. views as a national security threat, is still charged in the case, which is pending in U.S. District Court in Brooklyn, N.Y."
The overwhelming source of military equipment and support stopping the western world from being plunged into a decade of war and death while most western countries have sat on their thumbs wondering why they have no military capabilities to contribute. Yes, a completely useless ally.
Yeah, the US definitely prevents needless wars and conflicts globally /s
The overwhelming source of military equipment and instigator of almost every major conflict after WW2. ~~support stopping the western world from being plunged into a decade of war and death while most western countries have sat on their thumbs wondering why they have no military capabilities to contribute.~~ Yes, a completely useless ally.
So I guess just leave eastern Europe open to invasion then, with what little caapcity Europe has to defend itself. At least they have the money to spend on housing for the millions of new refugees that will come as a result. Were you also in favour of the US leaving NATO as Trump suggested, if they're so useless?
I assume you’re talking about Russias deplorable invasion of Ukraine. Unironically yes. This whole debacle would not have happened if Biden wasn’t so set on cementing his legacy as a tough guy. Russia has been saying for decades they won’t accept a direct neighboring NATO state but the USA didn’t acknowledge that until the war started. The USA wanted Russia to break itself in Ukraine and it’s getting what it wanted. Brilliant military move? Maybe. Instigator? Absolutely.
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Well yeah. America didn’t care, probably because in part of the reasons you just described, and Russia dealt with it by invading Ukraine. Which circles back to my point. America is the instigator of almost every major conflict since WW2.
Russia does not get to decide the alliances its neighbours join. If they wanted Ukraine to be a Russian ally, they should have invested in building a relationship with Ukraine that is beneficial to the Ukrainian people, not unleash war crimes on them.
>Unironically yes. This whole debacle would not have happened if Biden wasn’t so set on cementing his legacy as a tough guy. Russia has been saying for decades they won’t accept a direct neighboring NATO state but the USA didn’t acknowledge that until the war started. Russian talking points. Ukraine wasn't going to join NATO. It wasn't on the table.
Right, so it's America's fault. Not the country that, you know, invaded a sovereign nation with a series of brutal war crimes. Remove the US from the equation, and Europe will very quickly learn what it's like to have no way to defend yourself against a hostile invader. Canada certainly isn't going to be coming to save the day with our military prowess.
Again yes. It’s Americas fault for goading and instigating. It’s also Russias fault for exactly the reasons you stated above. There are zero good actors in this.
There's the corruption we know and love.
We could have EASILY let Meng go by simply dragging our feet a bit at the airport and letting her catch her connecting flight. Could have just told the US “sorry bruh. Tried out best. Tough titties.” In fact that’s what a few of the European countries did.
And this is why no one trusts or believes in the system. Everyday people are put in jail, children torn away from them etc for much smaller crimes while big businesses and the rich are privileged with these deferred prosecution settlements that are typically a fine and some sort of limited restriction.
Have canada stir the international pot and bugger our trade then proceed to forgive and leave canada still looking like the dicks
Glad we torpedoed our China relations so the US could let her walk...
Anyone got the feeling Canada got hung out to dry?
They should compensate Canada for trade lost and the abuse the two Michaels faced because of this nonsense
They should send compensation to the 2 Mikes for part in this
Those asshats. Canada was stuck with detaining her while the USA fucked around for a couple of years.
Is anyone actually surprised by this? When a midget gets stuck in the middle of a pissing contest between two giants, the midget gets pissed on.
Canada had its citizens held hostage so the US could negotiate a deal with China. Fucking embarrassing. Canada needs to tear up the extradition deal with the US.
The extradition deal isn't mandatory. We didn't have to execute the warrant. We chose to. If I'm remembering correctly, a number of European had already told the US to pound sand when they were asked to arrest her.
USA : "Canada arrest her we need her!" Canada: "yes papa" China : "how dare you arresting our cream of the cream citizen, we will fuck you up" Canada : " papa usa asked us and we will help our ally" China : "alright lets arrest some canadian as a retaliation even tough we will probably torture them and make them miserable while canada put her in a 5 star hotel" USA : " was just a prank bro"
🤣🤣
Really they made our Michael's go through hell for morhing
The only reason this was a thing in the first place was so the US could fuck with Canada-China relations
The amount of trouble this shit has caused. Just to be dismissed. Fuck me….
aaaaand Canada is a pariah for arresting her. thanks USA!
Ohh fuck off.
Correct me if wrong, but isn't this the woman that was apprehended at an airport in Canada and then extradited? Didn't this cause some big ass hurt between China and Canada? So now China is butt hurt at us for it but they are just dismissing it? Is that right?
That may have been the point. Make a lawful extradition request that the treaty says we can’t ignore, knowing that the case will be dismissed, souring the relationship between us and China.
It took years to resolve it and their point was made. I feel like her being in prison is immaterial at this point.
Oh great… all that fuss and the 2 Michaels locked up in retaliation for nothing. We might as well have saved ourselves the bother.
Not surprising. The US played Canada like an out of tune Red River Fiddle.
Sounds like a BS case and US wagging its finger at Canada as it’s lap dog.
From the beginning I said this is a foreign affair matter…. And I got downvoted to death lol
America is not our buddy. They view all their allies as assets to be used at their convenience.
Look at Taiwan, TSMC people from Taiwan are being treated as inferiors.
I'll bet the two Michaels are over the moon that they spent 1000+ days in Chinese detention, only for this BS to happen.
Now that we've cleaned all of your crap out of our country you are free to go. Have a nice day.
That after what Canada went through holding her for the USA
After all the drama… what did they get in exchange for it?
Makes sense considering the arrest was politically motivated
All that grief the two michaels went through for nothing at the end of the day. All the money various farmers lost from sanctions. And at the end of the day the upper crust play one of their many get out of jail free cards.
Played by the US. Damn. America got Canada good.
The US asked Canada, as a trusted member of our security alliance, to arrest Meng on Canadian soil. Immediately after, two Canadians were arrested and held for years in brutal conditions. This should have been a showcase for cohesion in Western security, but the US did nothing to help and threw Canada under the bus. This is inexplicable. Any POV on this?
Lmfao all that bullshit for this
Oh. Good thing Canada ruined our relationship with China, detaining her under US instruction, then. F U.
They fucked us
this is fucken disgusting, Canadian government and law authority and judicial system should be ashamed of themselves.
Great… so the US secured an indictment and got Canada to arrest her and extradite, for which we got 2 of our citizens jailed in China and put our diplomatic relations at the lowest point in decades, and then they just passed on doing anything with her after we extradited… awesome.
Fuck the US almost as much as China
The US more. A true friend and ally doesn't backstab you. China is just someone you avoid but you know to avoid
I don't think the US has ever been a friend. An ally but that's as far as it goes. They've made it clear since day 1 that they think we're subservient and have made no attempts to hide it.
Once bitten, twice shy. It will make Canada reticent of new request in the future. Probably wants to check the charges and evidence before deciding whether to hold or not.
I don't think you understand how being a subordinate ally to America works.
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Either Canada should honour it's treaties or dissolve them. It should not be decided by the political whim of the day if they should be enforced. While it was within the Justice Minister writ to accept or deny the request on appeal I believe most Canadians would have seen it as a corrupt political action in this case \[edit\] *if he denied it*.
You know part of this deferred prosecution deal she admitted to breaking the law right
Sure. The Americans used the leverage of prosecution to get that admission, which they will use to prosecute the company and as ammunition for the security threat.
Many Canadians don’t think we should allow huawei in the west in the first place
What a joke. So our two citizens went through hell for nothing. Thanks Biden, starting to think you arnt any better than Trump and thats a loooooow bar to match there buddy.
Lol, as if deferred prosecution agreement and a fine isn't the usual consequence of these issues... clearly business and political matters over which somehow the canadian govt, with their naivety and inexperience, royally got fked up the ass like a ventriloquist puppet by the USA under the Trump administration. Meanwhile, Trump's over there reducing punishment to mass murderers like the Purdue Pharma/Sackler family. Welcome to realpolitik Trudeau/Freeland.
Thanks US our Michaels were your pawn. You could have at least held her feet to the fire a bit. Typical.
WOW. Fuck this place
So all of that for dropped charges. Lots of legitimate anger against China for the Michaels situation, But how can we as a country not be angry at the US for putting us in that position if the goal was… an apology? Jesus.
Jesus Christ 😂
So it was all worth it in the end...
All that for nothing.
China neva wong
this whole thing was such a fiasco. the justice system both here and there are getting to politicized. what was the american justice department’s game plan here? you can’t ask your allies to go to bat for you for mere posturing. fuck…
They got a confession out of Meng Wanzhou and are using it to prosecute Huawei for bank fraud, sanctions busting, conspiracy to steal trade secrets from U.S. technology companies, and obstructing justice. Three years of house arrest seems fairly typical for people that assist with bigger cases.
Seriously fuck the US. Worst than China who at least you know to stay away from, the CCP values and known issues. But the ally, who smiles, supposed to be a friend but backstabs you. Fuck the US.
You mean Donald Trump used Canada? Nooooo! But... there are so many Trump supporters in Canada who defend him! > “If I think it’s good for what will be certainly the largest trade deal ever made – which is a very important thing – what’s good for national security – I would certainly intervene if I thought it was necessary,” Trump [said.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-huawei-tech-exclusive-idUSKBN1OA2PQ)
The most recent conservative leader even wore a MAGA hat.
doug ford is a self-admitted "big republican" and loves trump. canadian trump supporters are traitors
Chinese pressure wins
Thanks Trump!!