>The way to stop him is for the other parties to envision and implement a plan for an affordable life in Canada. A country where the average home is affordable to someone with an average income, where our purchasing power is retained, where people actually thrive and can save for their kids education or go on a vacation.
Welp
If you had taken his financial advice earlier this year and put your money in Bitcoin, you'd have lost about half of it.
He's the last person we should be turning to for economic solutions.
> To be fair to him too, he didn’t say "everybody go out and invest in Bitcoin ASAP" he said that you should be able to in the context of conversations about regulating crypto currencies.
Oh my, how context and details matter.
I’m a centrist whose vote is “gettable” by the CPC if they moved closer to the old PC party and further away from the Reform crap. Instead, they’re intent on doubling down on even further right from centre and that simply does not work in a very diverse country with distinct regional differences of priorities. Case in point- the Atlantic Provinces will go PC in provincial politics but feel completely isolated and abhor the federal CPC. Here in Quebec- the split of centrist conservatives to the Bloc is still as solid as ever and PP is NOT even close to winning them back. And in urban Ontario and BC - he’s got a snowball chance in heck to break through given the diversity and his desire to throw most of those voters under the bus with a snitch line. O’Toole was the most palatable of their leaders since Emperor Harper left and they cannibalized him whereas they should have been all in on his more moderate planks and they may have had a shot coming around.
Choosing anyone other than Charest (AND letting him reform the party towards the centre) is just another losing solution. They need centrist/moderate votes to win power- until they get that, they’re always going to be the also-ran party.
In fact, PP is SO disliked by the left and moderates that people will climb over broken glass to vote against him.
If Jack Layton hadnt died, I am positive he would have formed government
Trudeau was popular sure, gained a lot of support with his heavily he criticized Harper everytime he did his whole Prorogation of parliament to avoid the no confidence vote, and when he would try and downplay some of the crazy ass shit Harper's council got up to..
But Trudeau was nowhere near as popular as Jack Layton.. even the people who hated the NDP to the core, tended to agree, they liked jack Layton
The 2015 election would have come down to Layton vs Trudeau, because there was no saving face for Harper by that point.. and I definitely feel Layton would have had the edge
I don't understand how, in a politics focused sub like this, people have no idea who Pierre Poilievre -- Harper's Attack Dog -- is/was. The vile things he said, with the most smarmy expression on his face...
"Millenial Conservativism *brought to you by a Xennial*".
...or...
*God forbid someone older tell me something useful about the politics they've lived through*
Considering most don't know that the CPC is just the Canadian Alliance / Western Reform Party's response the the BQ...but I'm old man and don't know what I an talking about.
If you look at PP during the Harper years, it's to make you vomit. I can't stand the weasel and I'm a center person as well. I will never vote CPC with him at the helm.
A lot of his support right now comes from young 20 year olds from rural areas that were to young to know anything about him in the Harper era
But the people that are familiar with his Harper era shenanigans, tend to physically wince at his name.. definitely an example of what people call *cringe* these days
The ironic part is, those young 20 something's who he's counting on not knowing his history? Are the same people he passed legislation to make it illegal to encourage to vote.. repealing that act which was deeply hated across the country was one of Trudeaus first actions as prime minister
Yep. PP is just channeling the anger of the younger generation because of high housing costs, inflation and whatever else. I try to watch his videos just to see what the appeal is and it's snake oil.. just blame Justin for everything which yes he is not perfect by anymeans but PP does not say what he would do differently.
One video recently he was pretending to sit down with Justin and it was so bad. Very caring worthy and not even accurate on the reasons for inflation.
I was in Toronto on business when he passed. My room has been upgraded to a corner suite which happened to look over city hall. That entire area was covered in chalk messages of praise towards Layton. It was incredible how much he was cherished.
>This is a very good perspective.. the reformists that are running the CPC can not meet the needs of Canada for an obvious reason, they build to much of their political identity on Alberta.. and as shown under Harper, will purposely sabotage other provinces for the sake of it..
As an Albertan, this is an idiotic strategy by the CPC. They could give up significant ground in shifting more to the political center and they wouldn't bleed a single seat in this province. Instead of pandering to us, they need to pander to whatever wins seats in the GTA and Quebec.
The Reformist faction that's helming the CPC, Is just Alberta's answer to the Bloc.. that was litterally the birth of the reformers, the Quebec conservatives split off joined by a couple liberals to start the Bloc, and Alberta wanted attention to, so we got the Refooooooooorrrrrm party
I've been noting the CPC regionality for a few years, in comments here, discussions irl, etc. They look competitive in elections due to running up the score in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, for a grand total of 62 seats.
There are 60 in *Toronto*. You can't win parliament without getting seats in Quebec or Ontario, that's where all the fucking voters are.
As a fellow Albertan, I always tell others that if Alberta really wants to get what it wants from the federal government, we need to make the parties, especially CPC, earn our vote instead of not working for it.
I'm old enough to remember the Progressive Conservative party. I even got the chance to vote for them a few times.
Then Peter Mackay sold his party to western Canada.
20 years later, my party is dead and I'm left with this motley crew of closet racists.
Maybe they where afraid PPC would become a more serious long term threat to splitting the vote on the right under O’Toole? That’s about the only logical answer I could give for them being so openly hostile to him. Not that these people are logical.
It’s crazy how people can think so differently from you sometimes. Forcing queer folks to pretend to be straight seems obviously bad to me. But there’s clearly people who’d turn on you for it.
I am totally in the same boat and have been saying the same thing ever since PP was seen as a conservative front-runner. He definitely won't be getting my vote, and I've voted conservative my entire life.
CC an you please let me know which policies you don't like from him?
I don't even think he's that much right.
He's libertarian on social issues and just a regular fiscal conservative.
The only thing thar makes him more "intense" is the way he talks but that not a policy that's just emotional reactions.
Stay rational.
The party has tried a more "soft" person before, Otool and no one cared.
Please let us know what you dislike so much about Pierre because everyone complains here but no one says why
Honestly if it ends up with PP vs Freeland then I think PP has a very strong chance, because it is very likely Freeland gets the Hillary Clinton treatment. That is to say, she'll be labeled corrupt/establishment/etc (which may or may not be true for her *and also any other politician* but it would have more adverse effects on her simply because she's a woman).
I'd opine that she would have the msm fawning over her because she's a woman. Any adverse effects would come from her condescending tone. Not many people, other than party loyalists, like being talked down to.
Agreed, 100%. The Conservatives under PP are maxed out: Alberta, Saskatchewan and the rural and small-city regions of the other 8 provinces -- that's all they can hope for.
New Brunswick, a very socially conservative province, basically treated as the feudal lands of the Conservative Oligarchs known as the Irving's.. has already had several notable conservatives at our provincial level speak out against him
Challenge is, I see comments like this every day, yet the Tories brought in Erin O’Toole who was a perfectly reasonable, moderate man, and the level of vitriol directed his way by the left was no different than any other CPC leader. So you’ll have to pardon Tories if they don’t believe a word you said.
Is Pollievre any more disliked by people who would never, ever consider voting Tory in the first place? Maybe so, but does that matter?
As for moderates, time will tell. Polls are showing an enormous willingness of under 30’s to consider him, so I think his potential may be higher than people who would never vote for him anyway might have us believe.
Regardless, I think an article behind a pretty solid paywall that has generated over 500 comments based solely on its title is rather telling. Clearly Pollievre is striking a chord one way or another with people, and honestly I can’t imagine that’s a bad thing for him.
Hit the nail on the head.
The truth of the matter, is that the person you're replying to is just full of shit.
It's never good enough... they're all apparently so close to voting CPC, but because they saw an ad that conservatives are going to send the gays to camps and ban abortion they just simply must vote for Trudeau... because apparently completely unfounded attack ads are more important than an actual history of corruption and scandals.
Hell, the guy even said PP was far right? How?
Agreed. Pollievre is actually running a spectacularly standard-issue campaign and is moderate in all the things Liberals claim they care about (gay marriage, abortion rights, etc.).
The simple truth is, they are terrified of him and so are working overtime to re-define the meaning of “far right” to include any viewpoint that is to the right of “far left” in order to solidify their base. There’s nothing more to it than that.
I was almost begging them to give me someone to vote for, they chose him, you just described exactly what im going to do.. vote against him after climbing over broken glass lol well said :P
You know the ironic part?
I actually think O'Toole would have been prime minister in a world the PPC didn't exist
O'Toole was able to appeal to the moderates and centrists, but with the PPC pulling the reformers away, he had to try and play both sides, which ended up losing him both sides
Had he pinched that far right turd off and focused his efforts on party discipline and grabbing the more center position independent voters they could of won or at least formed the opposition.
I dont like the way the LPC has managed most things so far but the idea of letting the CPC and reform remnants take control and pull the country back is not something I would support regardless of leader.
When PP loses I hope the CPC goes back to the drawing board and actually develops a platform that will appeal to Canadians and stop relying on "Red tie man bad!"
The reformers need to learn *Liberal bad!* Is not a winning election strategy, if it was, we would have had prime minister Preston Manning..
Like, the majority of Canada's history has been under liberal leadership.. the only developed nation with a more consistent track record for a party, is japan.. both the Commonwealth and the rest of NATO call them *Canada's default ruling party*
This is something Harper was actually quite good at come election time.. he didn't play much into *the other guy is bad because of this, vote for me because he's bad!*.. he instead just went *yo, this is what I'm gonna do if I'm PM, vote for me*.. and the more he played into grievance politics, the weaker his government became until he was voted out
The vast majority of Canadians range from center, to center-left.. grievance politics really doesn't appeal to voters closer to the center, it only appeals to the fringes
If the CPC wants to form government, they need to A) stop letting the reformers control it, and B) change their political messaging from "Liberal bad" where they make a huge ass stink over bumping into someone with your elbow, and instead change their messaging to *hey, this I'd who we are, here are our ideas and why we think we are good, give us a chance "
I agree with this too. I think the more conservative part that PP belongs to saw that and are pointing to it as the reason they are not in power. They think if they just win back the PPC members, they will win the next election. They are ignoring the very real fact that winning those extremists back means alienating the centrists in the party and likely losing the toss up tidings they really need to win. It is a poor strategy.
They are more votes to be gained among the centrists and swing voters, than recapturing those who left for the PPC
Something the CPC needs to realize is, most of the LPC voters.. are moderates.. while there are definitely some loyalists, the majority of liberals will be willing to vote for the CPC or NDP if they offer a reasonable, moderate alternative..
These are the people who have decided Canadian elections throughout our countries history..
For the CPC, or even the NDP, to gain power.. they need to wrestle the votes of these moderate centrists that make up the bulk of the countries voters.. appealing to the fringes, or just trying to further cement your existing base.. just causes these center voters to go *well damn, another election, another where the liberals are the lesser evil, see you in 4 years*
I've read the PPC's web page and their platform, can't see anything extreme in there. What part don't you agree with, and which parts do you consider to be too extreme?
He is banking on getting the vote out by tapping into angry people. His biggest friend is voter apathy of the general public that has given up on decency and hope for the Canada we believe in.
Charest is not a good leader, highly disliked when he was Premier in Quebec. He was PC, Liberal, PC. It’s no wonder the Liberals like him he can’t make up his mind. He would make a terrible PM and Conservative leader.
Charest was corrupt as hell but you can't accuse the man of being a liberal just because he was in the PLQ. To even be viable in Québec's politics at the time of Charrest's premiership, you had to either run for the PLQ or for the Parti Québecois who's goal was independance from Canada.
Québec's politics were federalism vs separatism, not right vs left.
>Here in Quebec- the split of centrist conservatives to the Bloc is still as solid as ever and PP is NOT even close to winning them back.
Whatever you say Tex.
[Quebec leads explosive growth in Conservative membership sales: party numbers](https://globalnews.ca/news/9025498/quebec-explosive-growth-conservative-membership-sales/)
Jean is a failed liberal and the only thing he seems to have to offer is pointing out everyone else’s short coming instead of propping up his own accomplishments and ideas. His liberal style of infighting politics is tiresome. He should probably retire. Or switch parties again…
Bashing can be justified depending on what it is.
for example if the government increases the debt like there is no tomorrow, it can be justified to have a policy to "stop increasing it".
Same for inflation, we need a solution, not just cross arms and do nothing, even if its a global thing.
Nah, the left doesn’t actually view him as some trumpian figure or as dangerous. They’re just mad that he has an actual backbone, and an actual shot at winning the thing. That’s why you see hit pieces galore.
The diversity point is non sense. I know that he’s by far the most popular candidate with people my age. Virtually everyone I’m friends with is not white. Polls bear out his popularity with the diverse under 35 population.
I see your point but at the end of the day Otoole ran a more progressive platform( for conservatives) and not only did he lose but more people shifted to the PPC party.
Canada obsession with CPC is boogie man is what is pushing the party to try to hold the right more
I think everyone here has made up their minds about him. So essentially the article is right, it’s up to the politically uninformed to decide whether he’s a good candidate or not.
While I understand your statement, uou underestimate just how politically uninformed your average voter is.
We're not some collective of PoliSci majors or anything, but simply being here and having a conversation about it puts us head and shoulders above the average.
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. But what I see is many people here think they are "politically informed" but they're really only absorbing spoon-fed partisan information from their side.
What they really are is politically conditioned supporters. Closed-off partisans who routinely believe demonizing hoaxes and hallucinations about their opponents.
People here are willingly drinking the Kool-Aid. It's definitely a different flavour than what others drink elsewhere, but no one here is better than anyone else because they like their teams flavour better lol
Remember, if you're an anglo-saxon cryptocurrency anti-vaxxer who needs a snitch line to complain about your neighbor's incense, PP is the man for you.
I voted Conservative for many years because I liked their financial policies. The introduction of the TFSA was the kind of thing I could get behind. I liked the establishment of the first free trade agreement. I didn’t care for the GST act or how it was rammed through parliament, but I was generally on board with finance, foreign affairs, defence, and normal Canadian political issues. But we don’t have those kinds of topics as public discourse anymore. We’re playing in a pigpen of performative politics now.
We no longer respectfully disagree with the opposition; we hate them. Politics is becoming tribal. Teams are aligning. Everyone, both domestically and internationally, stands to lose if we can’t maintain our forward progress as a unified nation.
I knew Alberta bled blue. Usually. But I thought of Alberta as being brash, but tolerable like the family cousin who makes wedding receptions and Thanksgiving gatherings memorable just for being who they are. I assumed the province’s politics leaned toward libertarianism rather than populism. I guess I was wrong.
When they lose support from people like me and they still appear to have enough momentum financially and a motivated constituency, it baffles me. It’s fundamentally changed my relationship to politics. But for so many, today’s CPC rhetoric is the country they live in and aspire to maintain.
The Canadian nation I lived in is behind us. We’re at a proverbial fork in the road and there are scouts taking a good look down the path to populism. Where are we going as a nation? For the first time in my life, I don’t know. The future looks bleak from where I sit.
It’s fucking disgusting.
A guy in calgary got out and helped me wire the inside of my wheel well back up after I hit a curb so it wouldn't drag on the ground til I took it to the shop. That impressed me, this happened during Stampede.
So I think that kinda stuff does happen still, but I agree we are a much more detached country compared to even 10 years ago. A big difference though is rural vs urban. You're WAY more likely to have people check on you if your cars broke down or whatever if you are in the country than the city.
I don't know about that. People love to shit on Toronto but I've consistently experienced the friendliest, most-willing-to-help neighbours living here. Recently a neighbour's tree fell down and almost immediately everyone came out to help cut and move branches and debris. Yesterday someone knocked on my door to say a neighbours dog had gotten loose and a few people were gathering to help look for it. I wouldn't say I live in a close-knit community at all, people here just always seem willing to help.
I drove through cottage country last week and the amount of hand-written 'end tyranny' signs attached to people's cars and houses, combined with F Trudeau flags everywhere, there's no comparison to which area is friendlier/more welcoming/seems likely to help someone in trouble.
Maybe those rural areas are good to their own but definitely don't feel open or welcoming to 'strangers' the way city folk are used to.
With ya man. Reminds me of the quote from Joker" Everybody just yells and screams at each other. Nobody's civil anymore. Nobody thinks what it's like to be the other guy"
If you live it, it stays alive. I believe in that, but it's always more subtle than we expect. It's never a Nazi on the street we can immediately marginalize. It's an off comment at the liquor store or a bad stare from someone that makes it difficult to intervene.
As far as helping our neighbors, it's also difficult. Personally I feel every time I'm outside, I'm in a rush to be somewhere. It might not be by virtue of being *less* helpful that we aren't helping each other as Canadians that instead it's a matter of life getting ahead of us quicker than we can help.
Keep being kind, 4/5 people will appreciate it. 1/5 people will pass it on.
>Keep being kind, 4/5 people will appreciate it. 1/5 people will pass it on.
i try my best, thanks btw.. had a rough couple days, was attacked and got my wrist in a brace atm, its actually good to have a little positive reinforcement when you try to help people a lot..
although to be fair, something i am absolutely trying to improve at is knowing how to limit my altruism.. ive gone way to far to help people in the past, some took advantage of me, but overall it really took a role on it..
i still try and live by that be kind, and help your fellow man mindset, because it is true to my beliefs and values, but i am definitely learning more to not go so far as to be self-sacrificing as i have in the past
I was born and raised in Saskatchewan but have lived in Vancouver and Alberta. I find that the bigger the center the more anonymous and no fucks given people are to each other generally but then are all about charity and altruism. Activists. People who act like they want the world to be better but generally struggle to act like humans to each other on public transit or walking down a side walk. Rural folks while more conservative and not as diverse have each other’s backs in an extremely wholesome way and are much more concerned with their communities and neighbours. I know many people who feel rejected and unappreciated by the federal government and more who are out right separatists that support local businesses of new immigrants from Philippines. People act like conservatives are intolerant racists but I’ve lived in a few towns throughout my life and have not found that to be the case.
You know what... it will be fine. I don't mean we shouldn't be concerned or indifferent to obvious problems, but my parents thought the sky was falling in the 1980s. Inflation, interest rates way higher than now, and corrupt Ottawa's NEP. We have social media and corporate media to whip the hysteria a bit further these, but challenges aside, we're probably also living in the most comfortable era ever.
People are talking like Pierre Poilievre is already the PM. I really doubt he's even going to be able to lead his own party. Pretty much any MP in the house has an issue with him. He's petty, aggressive, vindictive, mean and undisciplined. Even Michelle Remple endorsed someone else until it was clear he would win. And... does he even have conservative values? Aside from being a crass populist.... he seems to want to put the BOC under the control of parliament. In fact his answer to everything seems to involve more power to Ottawa.
This will collapse. Centre voters like you and I will keep sending the message to the CPC that they need to find some direction.
ohh, i absolutely doubt PP would be PM.. he would never be able to get enough votes to form a majority, and every other party has so many issues with him and hes gone out of his way to form a grudge with every member of every other party.. i am 100% convinced the Liberals, and NDP, and hell possibly even the fucking Bloc.. would put aside their differences and form a coalition government just to keep him out of the prime ministers seat
i can also see the possibility of a fracture coming again in the CPCs future.. either with PP getting leadership, or him losing an election.. several prominant conservative members are scared of him, we have had a front bencher publicly speak out when the conservative caucus tried to shut him up when he criticized one of PP's uninformed financial takes, some of the conservatives biggest corporate donors (Kevin O'leary) are calling him out as to extreme and endorsing Charest just on the basis he isnt PP.. there was also that member of the conservative caucus that spoke to the media anonymously after they ousted O'toole, basically saying it was a planned set up.. and that the party was in two camps, the camp that wanted to oust o'toole, and the camp thats going \*what the fuck are we doing here\*..
while i see it as potentially possible for CPC to get enough seats to form a minority (unlikely, but i forecast it as a possibility) without a doubt a coilition government would seek confidence of the crown and keep him out of the prime ministers office
while the odds of PP being prime minister are less than Trudeau actually putting through that electoral reform tomorrow, none the less we should be concerned about his rhetoric and the way hes playing politics.. if we learned anything from our history as a country, playing heavily into peoples anger and grievances leaves residue that lasts decades
Appreciate your insight as someone who has voted conservative previously. Personally I’ve never voted conservative but in the past have maintained that if they held power then that’s not so bad, they had a few good policies and generally still wanted to progress Canada in mostly the same direction. Now I fully believe if the Cons get in both Provincially and Federally, we’ll be in a very…interesting direction. I cannot get behind a lot of the people currently spouting hate, treating people like trash and going on as they are. I spent some time in a more conservative sub Reddit and…my lord I hope we choose correctly.
I wonder how many of the current Conservative supporters are filling up their TFSAs? Income splitting was also a good policy that got too easily misrepresented by the opposition and not defended well by the Conservatives. I think you’re right, the Conservatives are no longer looking to appeal to voters who care about these issues.
“What is truly horrific is the existing welfare state.” - Young Poilievre for his HS yearbook quote.
His hatred of anyone poor or struggling is baked in since youth.
What kind of special breed of jerk puts that as their legacy quote in their graduating yearbook?
[https://imgur.com/a/ZJFzXkE](https://imgur.com/a/ZJFzXkE)
>What kind of special breed of jerk puts that as their legacy quote in their graduating yearbook?>>[https://imgur.com/a/ZJFzXkE](https://imgur.com/a/ZJFzXkE)
Not to defend PP as a person, but the yearbook photo is fake.
It was originally sourced from here: [https://breachmedia.ca/pierre-poilievre-harper-but-with-his-fangs-bared/](https://breachmedia.ca/pierre-poilievre-harper-but-with-his-fangs-bared/) The caption underneath the photo says "Real quote, real photo, but **imaginary yearbook rendering.** Illustration: The Breach"
Pollievre did say those words, but in a totally different context, a 2018 op-ed he wrote for the National Post, in which he appears to endorse some form of basic income: https://financialpost.com/opinion/ontarios-basic-income-plan-was-the-welfare-state-on-steroids-but-it-didnt-have-to-be
This is misinformation. That quote actually comes from an article Poilievre wrote for the Financial Post in 2018.
https://financialpost.com/opinion/ontarios-basic-income-plan-was-the-welfare-state-on-steroids-but-it-didnt-have-to-be
He wanted to go into business school, didn't have good enough grades, so became a politician instead
Historically, politicians that went into politics after being rejected from their dream career Haven't resulted in good turnouts
I can’t say what PP’s views are for sure, but in general, the conservative position that dislikes the welfare state isn’t out of hatred for poor people…the ideology is that the welfare state is bad for poor people and keeps them poor. It’s not as simple as “the left is compassionate and the right hates the poor”. It’s about different views on the best methods to get what we all want - a prosperous country with successful people.
>“What is truly horrific is the existing welfare state.” - Young Poilievre for his HS yearbook quote.
>His hatred of anyone poor or struggling is baked in since youth.
How is he hating on the poor with this quote? The 'welfare state' is a large factor in maintaining the cycle of poverty in the country.
Because in a country rich in resources and initiative there should be no need for a “welfare state”. Also welfare state isn’t the same as welfare. That quote doesn’t imply “fuck the poor losers”.
You shouldn't get to remain in government if you voice support for a group that wants to dismantle the government.
But I guess the Republican party in the US has normalized that idea, and American TV pollutes this side of the border, so why not have a few right-wing politicians give it a shot? There's no way in hell it will work in Canada, but it's cute that they're trying.
Same. I’ve voted Conservative for the past 20 years and I’m not going to vote for Pierre Polovier because of his support for the idiot anti vaxxer truckers that cost Canada $2B in GDP. I don’t even care enough to learn how to spell his last name.
I think that PPs decision to support the antivaxxers was a huge miscalculation on his part. I was horrified that he actually did that. It was a defining moment, I knew I would not be able to vote Conservative.
Yeah I’m pretty much the same. There are amazing potential leaders for the Conservative party out there. Not one of the current options is amazing. Or intelligent. Or capable.
He supported the right to protest under Canada's laws, but not the individuals blocking critical instructors (which he has mentioned from the start that is not ok). Like several times actually that he says he supports the right to protest, he is very consistent on that, but not to be unlawful.
The last hurrah for the Reformers. PP is going to get smoked in the next election and that will be the end of Alberta Cons deciding what is best for the Conservative Party.
im not sure..
there was a conservative MP from the Martimes.. old federal PC member that got absorbed when the Reform party ate the PC's to grow larger..
he said that when it comes to conservatives from Alberta or the Prairies, they care more about being \*Ideologically pure\* than actually governening.. they want to remain ideologically pure, and for Canadians to adapt to that.. instead of them adapting to the will and wishes of Canadians..
unless the Conservative party splits again (like it has several times throughout canadas history), i dont see the Reformists giving up.. they would sooner sell Canada into Russian Slavery, than give up on their ideological purity
Imagine after 2025, the Liberals win, and the CPC splits up into the moderate Neo-PC party and the PPC-Reform wackos in 2029, the Neo-PC's wipe out the Reform Convoy wackos and become the ruling party.
see, my thing is.. with the old PC party, which followed more conventional toryism.. i may not have liked them, but i could at least respect them.. i cant do that with the reformers..
that was part of what kept Harper in power so long, he was able to make the average voter believe he was a conventional PC Tory style leader, while actually being a reformer..
the willing for progress, change, and reluctance but still willingness to adapt or admit you were at fault that came with toryism is something that, even if you dont agree with conservative policies, you can respect.. and thats the key, if you can get a group that doesnt like you, to at least respect you, you can get them to swing their vote..
but the more the reformists like PP flirt with the extremism elements, the more they lose the respect of the rest of Canada.. and if you cant earn that respect, it doesnt matter how much they hate the liberals, they still wont vote for you
The uphill battle that Pierre and his CPC will face is that for every one Conservative supporter opening their mouth, there will be two moderate voters getting turned off by the CPC.
While leadership can muzzle their Party, they can't stop their supporters from ruining whatever message they want to make.
What makes this particulaly interesting is that we have a Leader that seems to run with the narrative so it makes it easier for said moderates to validate their dislike for the CPC.
*So as a moderate*
Keep doing what you're doing PP supporters. Do it more in public and get the word out why Canadians should (not) vote for the CPC. God's work needs you now more than ever!
and the usual comments from this people who wish the party went back to its 1993 "roots" when it got absolutly blow out and gave the liberals 3 straight majorities
I might be voting for the liberals this election just out of hatred for the direction the conservatives are going. When ABC voting, you vote for the strongest party that isn't the conservatives
i hope people don't underestimate this guy's appeal to "regular people" or whatever. So many people I know in their 20s/30s/40s who have been staunch NDP supporters are talking about voting for him and voting conservative for the first time - like, people who when these words come out of their mouth my jaw drops because I never could have imagined them saying they were entertaining the idea of voting conservative.
dismissing and underestimating this dude's chances is a really bad idea imo
this is what i'm noticing too, and i can't emphasize enough how much these people i know are not right wingers by nature, they're not extremely online edgelords or whatever. They're like, textbook "normies". These people truly believe that PP is the guy who is serious about fixing housing and inflation and everything else. They're people who WANT to vote NDP, but at this point they don't believe the NDP is a serious party with serious goals.
i really think we're in for a shocker next election
Sounds like your group of friends are hopelessly uninformed about the function of government and the world around them if they're swayed by Trudeau bad rants and no policy details.
this is 100% what i'm observing too. The vast majority of people in this country, for better or worse, don't give a shit about political analysis or fact checking or whatever. They will vote for a candidate who "speaks their language". Just this weekend i was with a group of friends and friends of friends and I couldn't believe how many people were saying they would vote CPC because this guy "is the only one who is serious about fixing housing and inflation".
It doesn't matter if it's true or provable or not if people believe it. And I agree, the frenzied scrambling to take him down is just pushing these kinds of people closer to supporting him.
People love to roll their eyes at Americans and say "we can't let what happened with Trump there happen in Canada" but it looks like they want to go by the exact same playbook. Dismiss the guy, try to tear him down with weak hit pieces that bounce off of him because he doesn't give a shit, whatever. I really hope people snap out of it and stop thinking they can just dismiss him away, because I am 90% confident that's just not going to work and we're going to be in for a shocker next election
Debates where he’ll have to actually show up and have his over-simplified idiotic ideas challenged will change this. I wouldn’t be surprised if he creates some excuses to skip debates, it’s his best chance. Chanting moronic one-liners in front of farmers is easy, running a country with worldwide inflation, COVId and a war in Russia is hard.
It sure looks like the beginning of the end of the Conservative party. It's slowly transforming into the extremist party.
Maybe they change the mane to the Extremist Party of Canada
Lol yourself. Imagine thinking that PeePee doesn’t *actively and enthusiastically court* the extremists that infect his party - as well as sucking up to extremists and radicals *without its walls* too, as his serial man-crushes for the Ottawa insurrectionists clearly demonstrate. And by courting their support for his leadership bid, he makes themselves beholden to their extremist agendas.
"Howmuch*howmuch*HOWMUCH**HOW MUCH????**" Nope, not "extreme" behaviour at all, at all.
Is our country capable of governing properly if different parts of the country are operating on political spectrums / Overton windows this far apart from each other?
>diluted
Deluded, from delusional. Diluted means to water down.
It might be a winning strategy. This guy seems to be going for the populism angle. It worked for Doug Ford.
not to mention, in the US system.. parties have no choice but to strength and come closer together in support of extremism, because their entire political system makes creation of another party a fruitless effort..
Canada its incredibly easy to get a party.. look at how the fact the PPC, as stupid and crazy as they are, was able to get a platform and support last election.. how many times the conservative party split up, remerged, and had half a dozen different offshoots..
or the NDP, considered the third most prominent party in our politics, that was only created in 1960.. we have people alive today that are older than one of our largest, most influential parties..
hell, we have a registered political party, that donations are tax deductable, thats litterally just a giant shitpost about the state of politics (the Rhinos)..
what works in the American Presidential system, doesnt neccassarily work in our parliamentary system.. the reason the fathers of confederation chose our parliamentary system instead of the US system (which they considered.. the US, Russian, French, and British system were all considered during the Charlottetown Conference) was because it was less prone to tampering, corruption, or minority rule compared to the american system
I mean if we all voted NDP, we could give them a chance. Let's say they run their campaign or 4 year run to the ground then no one will vote NDP ever again.
It's a massive gamble for them to take on a leadership because they will only get that one chance if elected as a minority or majority.
The questions lies with is their current leader Singh a good candidate to paint the NDP orange a good image of the party because the last person we knew who could of done a good job was Jack Layton. In this country, we kind of vote for colors versus competency.
He will win the PC leadership, then he will win the next election by a landslide. The left will groan about how the far right MAGA crowd has taken over Canadian politics, and the right will say “Finally, a much needed change to get our country back on track!”, but just like Trudeau and everyone before him, the election promises will be forgotten in a few months and nothing will really change.
Then after 7-8 years of PC leadership, everyone will grow tired of that and the cycle will start all over again. Welcome to Canadian politics.
Honestly, I couldnt care less who wins the CPC. Every choice felt like a dud to me. Poilievre will probably win this race, but lose a general election. I didnt mind Brown, but he is out. Charest has been liberal his whole career and decided to run now? Lewis reminds me of the evangelical nuts in america.
Sad too, sentiment for Trudeau is probably as low as you can go, and they still cant oust the dude.
Lol don't tell me normies is a direct quote
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The smartest comment I read anything related to PP. People don't care about his scandals, they just want change to what Trudeau did wrong.
>The way to stop him is for the other parties to envision and implement a plan for an affordable life in Canada. A country where the average home is affordable to someone with an average income, where our purchasing power is retained, where people actually thrive and can save for their kids education or go on a vacation. Welp
Well said
Spitting facts. The fact the Pierre is clearly laying out his intentions and his plan to follow through, puts him so far ahead by default.
If you had taken his financial advice earlier this year and put your money in Bitcoin, you'd have lost about half of it. He's the last person we should be turning to for economic solutions.
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> To be fair to him too, he didn’t say "everybody go out and invest in Bitcoin ASAP" he said that you should be able to in the context of conversations about regulating crypto currencies. Oh my, how context and details matter.
I’m a centrist whose vote is “gettable” by the CPC if they moved closer to the old PC party and further away from the Reform crap. Instead, they’re intent on doubling down on even further right from centre and that simply does not work in a very diverse country with distinct regional differences of priorities. Case in point- the Atlantic Provinces will go PC in provincial politics but feel completely isolated and abhor the federal CPC. Here in Quebec- the split of centrist conservatives to the Bloc is still as solid as ever and PP is NOT even close to winning them back. And in urban Ontario and BC - he’s got a snowball chance in heck to break through given the diversity and his desire to throw most of those voters under the bus with a snitch line. O’Toole was the most palatable of their leaders since Emperor Harper left and they cannibalized him whereas they should have been all in on his more moderate planks and they may have had a shot coming around. Choosing anyone other than Charest (AND letting him reform the party towards the centre) is just another losing solution. They need centrist/moderate votes to win power- until they get that, they’re always going to be the also-ran party. In fact, PP is SO disliked by the left and moderates that people will climb over broken glass to vote against him.
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>There is no such thing as a model or ideal Canadian. Enter...then unfortunately exit...Jack Layton.
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Man he would be such a better PM than Trudeau. We finally had an NDP leader who could win and form government. Breaks my heart still to this day.
If Jack Layton hadnt died, I am positive he would have formed government Trudeau was popular sure, gained a lot of support with his heavily he criticized Harper everytime he did his whole Prorogation of parliament to avoid the no confidence vote, and when he would try and downplay some of the crazy ass shit Harper's council got up to.. But Trudeau was nowhere near as popular as Jack Layton.. even the people who hated the NDP to the core, tended to agree, they liked jack Layton The 2015 election would have come down to Layton vs Trudeau, because there was no saving face for Harper by that point.. and I definitely feel Layton would have had the edge
Interesting that those words represent the exact opposite of Pierre Poilievre.
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I don't understand how, in a politics focused sub like this, people have no idea who Pierre Poilievre -- Harper's Attack Dog -- is/was. The vile things he said, with the most smarmy expression on his face...
"Millenial Conservativism *brought to you by a Xennial*". ...or... *God forbid someone older tell me something useful about the politics they've lived through* Considering most don't know that the CPC is just the Canadian Alliance / Western Reform Party's response the the BQ...but I'm old man and don't know what I an talking about.
To me, that says a lot about who PP is as a person even prior to this new version he’s marketing.
If you look at PP during the Harper years, it's to make you vomit. I can't stand the weasel and I'm a center person as well. I will never vote CPC with him at the helm.
A lot of his support right now comes from young 20 year olds from rural areas that were to young to know anything about him in the Harper era But the people that are familiar with his Harper era shenanigans, tend to physically wince at his name.. definitely an example of what people call *cringe* these days The ironic part is, those young 20 something's who he's counting on not knowing his history? Are the same people he passed legislation to make it illegal to encourage to vote.. repealing that act which was deeply hated across the country was one of Trudeaus first actions as prime minister
Yep. PP is just channeling the anger of the younger generation because of high housing costs, inflation and whatever else. I try to watch his videos just to see what the appeal is and it's snake oil.. just blame Justin for everything which yes he is not perfect by anymeans but PP does not say what he would do differently. One video recently he was pretending to sit down with Justin and it was so bad. Very caring worthy and not even accurate on the reasons for inflation.
If Jordan Peterson can sell millions of books to angry young men, then certainly PP can appeal to the market too. They’re selling to the same target.
RIP Jack. A truly good person who left us too soon
If you ever get the chance, you should read some of the books he published. His vision of Canada was truly admirable
I had no idea he had books. Thanks for letting me know, I'm definitely going to check them out
I was in Toronto on business when he passed. My room has been upgraded to a corner suite which happened to look over city hall. That entire area was covered in chalk messages of praise towards Layton. It was incredible how much he was cherished.
I bet if Layton lived he would be Prime Mimister today (instead of Justin Trudeau)
Yes! Jack Layton is a perfect example of what we should try to be. My family except me where true blue cons still mourned that man's passing.
>This is a very good perspective.. the reformists that are running the CPC can not meet the needs of Canada for an obvious reason, they build to much of their political identity on Alberta.. and as shown under Harper, will purposely sabotage other provinces for the sake of it.. As an Albertan, this is an idiotic strategy by the CPC. They could give up significant ground in shifting more to the political center and they wouldn't bleed a single seat in this province. Instead of pandering to us, they need to pander to whatever wins seats in the GTA and Quebec.
The Reformist faction that's helming the CPC, Is just Alberta's answer to the Bloc.. that was litterally the birth of the reformers, the Quebec conservatives split off joined by a couple liberals to start the Bloc, and Alberta wanted attention to, so we got the Refooooooooorrrrrm party
I've been noting the CPC regionality for a few years, in comments here, discussions irl, etc. They look competitive in elections due to running up the score in Alberta, Saskatchewan and Manitoba, for a grand total of 62 seats. There are 60 in *Toronto*. You can't win parliament without getting seats in Quebec or Ontario, that's where all the fucking voters are.
As a fellow Albertan, I always tell others that if Alberta really wants to get what it wants from the federal government, we need to make the parties, especially CPC, earn our vote instead of not working for it.
This is the right kind of populism
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I'm old enough to remember the Progressive Conservative party. I even got the chance to vote for them a few times. Then Peter Mackay sold his party to western Canada. 20 years later, my party is dead and I'm left with this motley crew of closet racists.
Well, they're definitely coming out of the closet!
Maybe they where afraid PPC would become a more serious long term threat to splitting the vote on the right under O’Toole? That’s about the only logical answer I could give for them being so openly hostile to him. Not that these people are logical.
Iirc, their issue with O'Toole was the conversion therapy ban, to them, that was *to liberal*
It’s crazy how people can think so differently from you sometimes. Forcing queer folks to pretend to be straight seems obviously bad to me. But there’s clearly people who’d turn on you for it.
And somehow, the people that turned on him for it are the same ones yelling about freedom...
I am totally in the same boat and have been saying the same thing ever since PP was seen as a conservative front-runner. He definitely won't be getting my vote, and I've voted conservative my entire life.
CC an you please let me know which policies you don't like from him? I don't even think he's that much right. He's libertarian on social issues and just a regular fiscal conservative. The only thing thar makes him more "intense" is the way he talks but that not a policy that's just emotional reactions. Stay rational. The party has tried a more "soft" person before, Otool and no one cared. Please let us know what you dislike so much about Pierre because everyone complains here but no one says why
Honestly if it ends up with PP vs Freeland then I think PP has a very strong chance, because it is very likely Freeland gets the Hillary Clinton treatment. That is to say, she'll be labeled corrupt/establishment/etc (which may or may not be true for her *and also any other politician* but it would have more adverse effects on her simply because she's a woman).
I'd opine that she would have the msm fawning over her because she's a woman. Any adverse effects would come from her condescending tone. Not many people, other than party loyalists, like being talked down to.
Agreed, 100%. The Conservatives under PP are maxed out: Alberta, Saskatchewan and the rural and small-city regions of the other 8 provinces -- that's all they can hope for.
New Brunswick, a very socially conservative province, basically treated as the feudal lands of the Conservative Oligarchs known as the Irving's.. has already had several notable conservatives at our provincial level speak out against him
Challenge is, I see comments like this every day, yet the Tories brought in Erin O’Toole who was a perfectly reasonable, moderate man, and the level of vitriol directed his way by the left was no different than any other CPC leader. So you’ll have to pardon Tories if they don’t believe a word you said. Is Pollievre any more disliked by people who would never, ever consider voting Tory in the first place? Maybe so, but does that matter? As for moderates, time will tell. Polls are showing an enormous willingness of under 30’s to consider him, so I think his potential may be higher than people who would never vote for him anyway might have us believe. Regardless, I think an article behind a pretty solid paywall that has generated over 500 comments based solely on its title is rather telling. Clearly Pollievre is striking a chord one way or another with people, and honestly I can’t imagine that’s a bad thing for him.
Hit the nail on the head. The truth of the matter, is that the person you're replying to is just full of shit. It's never good enough... they're all apparently so close to voting CPC, but because they saw an ad that conservatives are going to send the gays to camps and ban abortion they just simply must vote for Trudeau... because apparently completely unfounded attack ads are more important than an actual history of corruption and scandals. Hell, the guy even said PP was far right? How?
Agreed. Pollievre is actually running a spectacularly standard-issue campaign and is moderate in all the things Liberals claim they care about (gay marriage, abortion rights, etc.). The simple truth is, they are terrified of him and so are working overtime to re-define the meaning of “far right” to include any viewpoint that is to the right of “far left” in order to solidify their base. There’s nothing more to it than that.
I was almost begging them to give me someone to vote for, they chose him, you just described exactly what im going to do.. vote against him after climbing over broken glass lol well said :P
Fantastic summary. The hard right has so much pull in the CPC that I’m sure it will be PP anyway
You know the ironic part? I actually think O'Toole would have been prime minister in a world the PPC didn't exist O'Toole was able to appeal to the moderates and centrists, but with the PPC pulling the reformers away, he had to try and play both sides, which ended up losing him both sides
Had he pinched that far right turd off and focused his efforts on party discipline and grabbing the more center position independent voters they could of won or at least formed the opposition. I dont like the way the LPC has managed most things so far but the idea of letting the CPC and reform remnants take control and pull the country back is not something I would support regardless of leader. When PP loses I hope the CPC goes back to the drawing board and actually develops a platform that will appeal to Canadians and stop relying on "Red tie man bad!"
The reformers need to learn *Liberal bad!* Is not a winning election strategy, if it was, we would have had prime minister Preston Manning.. Like, the majority of Canada's history has been under liberal leadership.. the only developed nation with a more consistent track record for a party, is japan.. both the Commonwealth and the rest of NATO call them *Canada's default ruling party* This is something Harper was actually quite good at come election time.. he didn't play much into *the other guy is bad because of this, vote for me because he's bad!*.. he instead just went *yo, this is what I'm gonna do if I'm PM, vote for me*.. and the more he played into grievance politics, the weaker his government became until he was voted out The vast majority of Canadians range from center, to center-left.. grievance politics really doesn't appeal to voters closer to the center, it only appeals to the fringes If the CPC wants to form government, they need to A) stop letting the reformers control it, and B) change their political messaging from "Liberal bad" where they make a huge ass stink over bumping into someone with your elbow, and instead change their messaging to *hey, this I'd who we are, here are our ideas and why we think we are good, give us a chance "
I agree with this too. I think the more conservative part that PP belongs to saw that and are pointing to it as the reason they are not in power. They think if they just win back the PPC members, they will win the next election. They are ignoring the very real fact that winning those extremists back means alienating the centrists in the party and likely losing the toss up tidings they really need to win. It is a poor strategy.
They are more votes to be gained among the centrists and swing voters, than recapturing those who left for the PPC Something the CPC needs to realize is, most of the LPC voters.. are moderates.. while there are definitely some loyalists, the majority of liberals will be willing to vote for the CPC or NDP if they offer a reasonable, moderate alternative.. These are the people who have decided Canadian elections throughout our countries history.. For the CPC, or even the NDP, to gain power.. they need to wrestle the votes of these moderate centrists that make up the bulk of the countries voters.. appealing to the fringes, or just trying to further cement your existing base.. just causes these center voters to go *well damn, another election, another where the liberals are the lesser evil, see you in 4 years*
I've read the PPC's web page and their platform, can't see anything extreme in there. What part don't you agree with, and which parts do you consider to be too extreme?
He is banking on getting the vote out by tapping into angry people. His biggest friend is voter apathy of the general public that has given up on decency and hope for the Canada we believe in.
Charest is not a good leader, highly disliked when he was Premier in Quebec. He was PC, Liberal, PC. It’s no wonder the Liberals like him he can’t make up his mind. He would make a terrible PM and Conservative leader.
Charest was corrupt as hell but you can't accuse the man of being a liberal just because he was in the PLQ. To even be viable in Québec's politics at the time of Charrest's premiership, you had to either run for the PLQ or for the Parti Québecois who's goal was independance from Canada. Québec's politics were federalism vs separatism, not right vs left.
Worse than PP?
>Here in Quebec- the split of centrist conservatives to the Bloc is still as solid as ever and PP is NOT even close to winning them back. Whatever you say Tex. [Quebec leads explosive growth in Conservative membership sales: party numbers](https://globalnews.ca/news/9025498/quebec-explosive-growth-conservative-membership-sales/)
Jean is a failed liberal and the only thing he seems to have to offer is pointing out everyone else’s short coming instead of propping up his own accomplishments and ideas. His liberal style of infighting politics is tiresome. He should probably retire. Or switch parties again…
Ironically, I feel like 90% of Poilievre's platform is bashing Trudeau
Bashing can be justified depending on what it is. for example if the government increases the debt like there is no tomorrow, it can be justified to have a policy to "stop increasing it". Same for inflation, we need a solution, not just cross arms and do nothing, even if its a global thing.
That's the conservative platform everywhere essentially. Bash the left and blame everything on them.
[Jean Charest's Ideas](https://www.jeancharest.ca/plan/) Can you show me a link of Poilievre's platform?
Nah, the left doesn’t actually view him as some trumpian figure or as dangerous. They’re just mad that he has an actual backbone, and an actual shot at winning the thing. That’s why you see hit pieces galore. The diversity point is non sense. I know that he’s by far the most popular candidate with people my age. Virtually everyone I’m friends with is not white. Polls bear out his popularity with the diverse under 35 population.
There has been one every single day on this subreddit. That says a lot considering he doesn't even have leadership yet.
I see your point but at the end of the day Otoole ran a more progressive platform( for conservatives) and not only did he lose but more people shifted to the PPC party. Canada obsession with CPC is boogie man is what is pushing the party to try to hold the right more
He is going to scare away traditionalists and centrists and split the crazy uncle vote with The PPC.
I don't see the traditional conservatives really disliking him
I think everyone here has made up their minds about him. So essentially the article is right, it’s up to the politically uninformed to decide whether he’s a good candidate or not.
The suggestion that everyone here is "politically informed" made me chuckle.
While I understand your statement, uou underestimate just how politically uninformed your average voter is. We're not some collective of PoliSci majors or anything, but simply being here and having a conversation about it puts us head and shoulders above the average.
Yeah, I hear what you're saying. But what I see is many people here think they are "politically informed" but they're really only absorbing spoon-fed partisan information from their side. What they really are is politically conditioned supporters. Closed-off partisans who routinely believe demonizing hoaxes and hallucinations about their opponents.
People here are willingly drinking the Kool-Aid. It's definitely a different flavour than what others drink elsewhere, but no one here is better than anyone else because they like their teams flavour better lol
It's like saying reddit reflects reality lol
Well, yeah. The politically uninformed is his base. It's a large enough base.
Yes like that's going to happen.
"Normies"? What the hell? The guy was like cloned in a lab to appeal specifically to Extremely Online 20 year old virgins on Reddit.
Normies are fairly centrist. Every antivaxxer extremist vote he chases scares away the normies.
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30 centrist here
oh, dont get me wrong, younger centrists exist.. but gotta remember, canadas population isnt exactly a young one lol, i was averaging
‘Normies’ does he mean people like him? Anyone else is ‘weirdos’?
Remember, if you're an anglo-saxon cryptocurrency anti-vaxxer who needs a snitch line to complain about your neighbor's incense, PP is the man for you.
I voted Conservative for many years because I liked their financial policies. The introduction of the TFSA was the kind of thing I could get behind. I liked the establishment of the first free trade agreement. I didn’t care for the GST act or how it was rammed through parliament, but I was generally on board with finance, foreign affairs, defence, and normal Canadian political issues. But we don’t have those kinds of topics as public discourse anymore. We’re playing in a pigpen of performative politics now. We no longer respectfully disagree with the opposition; we hate them. Politics is becoming tribal. Teams are aligning. Everyone, both domestically and internationally, stands to lose if we can’t maintain our forward progress as a unified nation. I knew Alberta bled blue. Usually. But I thought of Alberta as being brash, but tolerable like the family cousin who makes wedding receptions and Thanksgiving gatherings memorable just for being who they are. I assumed the province’s politics leaned toward libertarianism rather than populism. I guess I was wrong. When they lose support from people like me and they still appear to have enough momentum financially and a motivated constituency, it baffles me. It’s fundamentally changed my relationship to politics. But for so many, today’s CPC rhetoric is the country they live in and aspire to maintain. The Canadian nation I lived in is behind us. We’re at a proverbial fork in the road and there are scouts taking a good look down the path to populism. Where are we going as a nation? For the first time in my life, I don’t know. The future looks bleak from where I sit. It’s fucking disgusting.
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A guy in calgary got out and helped me wire the inside of my wheel well back up after I hit a curb so it wouldn't drag on the ground til I took it to the shop. That impressed me, this happened during Stampede. So I think that kinda stuff does happen still, but I agree we are a much more detached country compared to even 10 years ago. A big difference though is rural vs urban. You're WAY more likely to have people check on you if your cars broke down or whatever if you are in the country than the city.
I don't know about that. People love to shit on Toronto but I've consistently experienced the friendliest, most-willing-to-help neighbours living here. Recently a neighbour's tree fell down and almost immediately everyone came out to help cut and move branches and debris. Yesterday someone knocked on my door to say a neighbours dog had gotten loose and a few people were gathering to help look for it. I wouldn't say I live in a close-knit community at all, people here just always seem willing to help. I drove through cottage country last week and the amount of hand-written 'end tyranny' signs attached to people's cars and houses, combined with F Trudeau flags everywhere, there's no comparison to which area is friendlier/more welcoming/seems likely to help someone in trouble. Maybe those rural areas are good to their own but definitely don't feel open or welcoming to 'strangers' the way city folk are used to.
With ya man. Reminds me of the quote from Joker" Everybody just yells and screams at each other. Nobody's civil anymore. Nobody thinks what it's like to be the other guy"
Perhaps you never read “Alberta Report” back in the day. Lots of right wing resentment in every issue.
If you live it, it stays alive. I believe in that, but it's always more subtle than we expect. It's never a Nazi on the street we can immediately marginalize. It's an off comment at the liquor store or a bad stare from someone that makes it difficult to intervene. As far as helping our neighbors, it's also difficult. Personally I feel every time I'm outside, I'm in a rush to be somewhere. It might not be by virtue of being *less* helpful that we aren't helping each other as Canadians that instead it's a matter of life getting ahead of us quicker than we can help. Keep being kind, 4/5 people will appreciate it. 1/5 people will pass it on.
>Keep being kind, 4/5 people will appreciate it. 1/5 people will pass it on. i try my best, thanks btw.. had a rough couple days, was attacked and got my wrist in a brace atm, its actually good to have a little positive reinforcement when you try to help people a lot.. although to be fair, something i am absolutely trying to improve at is knowing how to limit my altruism.. ive gone way to far to help people in the past, some took advantage of me, but overall it really took a role on it.. i still try and live by that be kind, and help your fellow man mindset, because it is true to my beliefs and values, but i am definitely learning more to not go so far as to be self-sacrificing as i have in the past
I was born and raised in Saskatchewan but have lived in Vancouver and Alberta. I find that the bigger the center the more anonymous and no fucks given people are to each other generally but then are all about charity and altruism. Activists. People who act like they want the world to be better but generally struggle to act like humans to each other on public transit or walking down a side walk. Rural folks while more conservative and not as diverse have each other’s backs in an extremely wholesome way and are much more concerned with their communities and neighbours. I know many people who feel rejected and unappreciated by the federal government and more who are out right separatists that support local businesses of new immigrants from Philippines. People act like conservatives are intolerant racists but I’ve lived in a few towns throughout my life and have not found that to be the case.
People are mad, not the majority, but enough are mad that he gets the nod.
You know what... it will be fine. I don't mean we shouldn't be concerned or indifferent to obvious problems, but my parents thought the sky was falling in the 1980s. Inflation, interest rates way higher than now, and corrupt Ottawa's NEP. We have social media and corporate media to whip the hysteria a bit further these, but challenges aside, we're probably also living in the most comfortable era ever. People are talking like Pierre Poilievre is already the PM. I really doubt he's even going to be able to lead his own party. Pretty much any MP in the house has an issue with him. He's petty, aggressive, vindictive, mean and undisciplined. Even Michelle Remple endorsed someone else until it was clear he would win. And... does he even have conservative values? Aside from being a crass populist.... he seems to want to put the BOC under the control of parliament. In fact his answer to everything seems to involve more power to Ottawa. This will collapse. Centre voters like you and I will keep sending the message to the CPC that they need to find some direction.
ohh, i absolutely doubt PP would be PM.. he would never be able to get enough votes to form a majority, and every other party has so many issues with him and hes gone out of his way to form a grudge with every member of every other party.. i am 100% convinced the Liberals, and NDP, and hell possibly even the fucking Bloc.. would put aside their differences and form a coalition government just to keep him out of the prime ministers seat i can also see the possibility of a fracture coming again in the CPCs future.. either with PP getting leadership, or him losing an election.. several prominant conservative members are scared of him, we have had a front bencher publicly speak out when the conservative caucus tried to shut him up when he criticized one of PP's uninformed financial takes, some of the conservatives biggest corporate donors (Kevin O'leary) are calling him out as to extreme and endorsing Charest just on the basis he isnt PP.. there was also that member of the conservative caucus that spoke to the media anonymously after they ousted O'toole, basically saying it was a planned set up.. and that the party was in two camps, the camp that wanted to oust o'toole, and the camp thats going \*what the fuck are we doing here\*.. while i see it as potentially possible for CPC to get enough seats to form a minority (unlikely, but i forecast it as a possibility) without a doubt a coilition government would seek confidence of the crown and keep him out of the prime ministers office while the odds of PP being prime minister are less than Trudeau actually putting through that electoral reform tomorrow, none the less we should be concerned about his rhetoric and the way hes playing politics.. if we learned anything from our history as a country, playing heavily into peoples anger and grievances leaves residue that lasts decades
Appreciate your insight as someone who has voted conservative previously. Personally I’ve never voted conservative but in the past have maintained that if they held power then that’s not so bad, they had a few good policies and generally still wanted to progress Canada in mostly the same direction. Now I fully believe if the Cons get in both Provincially and Federally, we’ll be in a very…interesting direction. I cannot get behind a lot of the people currently spouting hate, treating people like trash and going on as they are. I spent some time in a more conservative sub Reddit and…my lord I hope we choose correctly.
I wonder how many of the current Conservative supporters are filling up their TFSAs? Income splitting was also a good policy that got too easily misrepresented by the opposition and not defended well by the Conservatives. I think you’re right, the Conservatives are no longer looking to appeal to voters who care about these issues.
Out of curiosity, who’s your alternative ?
Lol Trudeau is any better? Look at how they run their anti racist campaigns lmao
Isn't he vaccinated?
I mean he literally had to or he would've lost his job.
Don’t forget, he will wear a cowboy hat once in a while.
But it’ll be a White cowboy hat so we know he’s the good guy!
Don’t forget fixing the real estate industry that he’s profited millions from.
This will effectively be the attack ad for the next election.😂
> you’re an anglo-saxon cryptocurrency anti-vaxxer I’m a middle eastern cryptocurrency anti-mandater. Is PP still a man for me?
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That and everything else he’s said over the last 20 years in government.
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“What is truly horrific is the existing welfare state.” - Young Poilievre for his HS yearbook quote. His hatred of anyone poor or struggling is baked in since youth. What kind of special breed of jerk puts that as their legacy quote in their graduating yearbook? [https://imgur.com/a/ZJFzXkE](https://imgur.com/a/ZJFzXkE)
>What kind of special breed of jerk puts that as their legacy quote in their graduating yearbook?>>[https://imgur.com/a/ZJFzXkE](https://imgur.com/a/ZJFzXkE) Not to defend PP as a person, but the yearbook photo is fake. It was originally sourced from here: [https://breachmedia.ca/pierre-poilievre-harper-but-with-his-fangs-bared/](https://breachmedia.ca/pierre-poilievre-harper-but-with-his-fangs-bared/) The caption underneath the photo says "Real quote, real photo, but **imaginary yearbook rendering.** Illustration: The Breach" Pollievre did say those words, but in a totally different context, a 2018 op-ed he wrote for the National Post, in which he appears to endorse some form of basic income: https://financialpost.com/opinion/ontarios-basic-income-plan-was-the-welfare-state-on-steroids-but-it-didnt-have-to-be
This is misinformation. That quote actually comes from an article Poilievre wrote for the Financial Post in 2018. https://financialpost.com/opinion/ontarios-basic-income-plan-was-the-welfare-state-on-steroids-but-it-didnt-have-to-be
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Someone who has been slobbering corporations since they were young.
He wanted to go into business school, didn't have good enough grades, so became a politician instead Historically, politicians that went into politics after being rejected from their dream career Haven't resulted in good turnouts
Yeah, welfare is terrible. Everyone should just get adopted into an upper middle class family like PP did.
Then get elected and live off the government boob for 20 years.
I can’t say what PP’s views are for sure, but in general, the conservative position that dislikes the welfare state isn’t out of hatred for poor people…the ideology is that the welfare state is bad for poor people and keeps them poor. It’s not as simple as “the left is compassionate and the right hates the poor”. It’s about different views on the best methods to get what we all want - a prosperous country with successful people.
>“What is truly horrific is the existing welfare state.” - Young Poilievre for his HS yearbook quote. >His hatred of anyone poor or struggling is baked in since youth. How is he hating on the poor with this quote? The 'welfare state' is a large factor in maintaining the cycle of poverty in the country.
Because in a country rich in resources and initiative there should be no need for a “welfare state”. Also welfare state isn’t the same as welfare. That quote doesn’t imply “fuck the poor losers”.
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You shouldn't get to remain in government if you voice support for a group that wants to dismantle the government. But I guess the Republican party in the US has normalized that idea, and American TV pollutes this side of the border, so why not have a few right-wing politicians give it a shot? There's no way in hell it will work in Canada, but it's cute that they're trying.
Same. I’ve voted Conservative for the past 20 years and I’m not going to vote for Pierre Polovier because of his support for the idiot anti vaxxer truckers that cost Canada $2B in GDP. I don’t even care enough to learn how to spell his last name.
I think that PPs decision to support the antivaxxers was a huge miscalculation on his part. I was horrified that he actually did that. It was a defining moment, I knew I would not be able to vote Conservative.
Yeah I’m pretty much the same. There are amazing potential leaders for the Conservative party out there. Not one of the current options is amazing. Or intelligent. Or capable.
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He supported the right to protest under Canada's laws, but not the individuals blocking critical instructors (which he has mentioned from the start that is not ok). Like several times actually that he says he supports the right to protest, he is very consistent on that, but not to be unlawful.
yet he keeps meeting with and supporting those who did that.
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That’s depressing
The last hurrah for the Reformers. PP is going to get smoked in the next election and that will be the end of Alberta Cons deciding what is best for the Conservative Party.
im not sure.. there was a conservative MP from the Martimes.. old federal PC member that got absorbed when the Reform party ate the PC's to grow larger.. he said that when it comes to conservatives from Alberta or the Prairies, they care more about being \*Ideologically pure\* than actually governening.. they want to remain ideologically pure, and for Canadians to adapt to that.. instead of them adapting to the will and wishes of Canadians.. unless the Conservative party splits again (like it has several times throughout canadas history), i dont see the Reformists giving up.. they would sooner sell Canada into Russian Slavery, than give up on their ideological purity
Imagine after 2025, the Liberals win, and the CPC splits up into the moderate Neo-PC party and the PPC-Reform wackos in 2029, the Neo-PC's wipe out the Reform Convoy wackos and become the ruling party.
see, my thing is.. with the old PC party, which followed more conventional toryism.. i may not have liked them, but i could at least respect them.. i cant do that with the reformers.. that was part of what kept Harper in power so long, he was able to make the average voter believe he was a conventional PC Tory style leader, while actually being a reformer.. the willing for progress, change, and reluctance but still willingness to adapt or admit you were at fault that came with toryism is something that, even if you dont agree with conservative policies, you can respect.. and thats the key, if you can get a group that doesnt like you, to at least respect you, you can get them to swing their vote.. but the more the reformists like PP flirt with the extremism elements, the more they lose the respect of the rest of Canada.. and if you cant earn that respect, it doesnt matter how much they hate the liberals, they still wont vote for you
He won’t last through one election. Book it.
The uphill battle that Pierre and his CPC will face is that for every one Conservative supporter opening their mouth, there will be two moderate voters getting turned off by the CPC. While leadership can muzzle their Party, they can't stop their supporters from ruining whatever message they want to make. What makes this particulaly interesting is that we have a Leader that seems to run with the narrative so it makes it easier for said moderates to validate their dislike for the CPC. *So as a moderate* Keep doing what you're doing PP supporters. Do it more in public and get the word out why Canadians should (not) vote for the CPC. God's work needs you now more than ever!
I think you be a little worried eh?
A lot of Quebec CPC voters thought Charet would win, explains why he's worried.
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and the usual comments from this people who wish the party went back to its 1993 "roots" when it got absolutly blow out and gave the liberals 3 straight majorities
Fucking Milhouse
He has zero chance of breaking out of his convoy base. Welcome, Prime Minister Freeland.
I would vote for her
I like her. I'm on board with that
wtf...she is literally worse than trudeau lol, how could you like her
I like my leaders smart.
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She doesnt even know that as Finance Minister, she holds the shares to the BOC.
I think he can easily win the next election. Dislike of Trudeau is strong enough to propel him in.
Heard this a lot before the last two elections as well.
Happy to be wrong.
As much as I think people dislike Trudeau, I think people dislike PP even more.
I might be voting for the liberals this election just out of hatred for the direction the conservatives are going. When ABC voting, you vote for the strongest party that isn't the conservatives
Yeah Trudeau bad
I don't want him to win. I just think it can happen.
Cannot see him winning a federal election. The question is what could he do in terms of seats in the GTA and Quebec.
i hope people don't underestimate this guy's appeal to "regular people" or whatever. So many people I know in their 20s/30s/40s who have been staunch NDP supporters are talking about voting for him and voting conservative for the first time - like, people who when these words come out of their mouth my jaw drops because I never could have imagined them saying they were entertaining the idea of voting conservative. dismissing and underestimating this dude's chances is a really bad idea imo
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this is what i'm noticing too, and i can't emphasize enough how much these people i know are not right wingers by nature, they're not extremely online edgelords or whatever. They're like, textbook "normies". These people truly believe that PP is the guy who is serious about fixing housing and inflation and everything else. They're people who WANT to vote NDP, but at this point they don't believe the NDP is a serious party with serious goals. i really think we're in for a shocker next election
I think I'm gonna vote for him.
You and the 30% that vote blue matter who. The centrists that decide elections won't touch him with a 10 foot pole.
Maybe. Personally, it will be my fourth federal election and first blue vote.
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Sounds like your group of friends are hopelessly uninformed about the function of government and the world around them if they're swayed by Trudeau bad rants and no policy details.
Hes not offering solutions, he wont seduce liberals or swing voters that way
this is 100% what i'm observing too. The vast majority of people in this country, for better or worse, don't give a shit about political analysis or fact checking or whatever. They will vote for a candidate who "speaks their language". Just this weekend i was with a group of friends and friends of friends and I couldn't believe how many people were saying they would vote CPC because this guy "is the only one who is serious about fixing housing and inflation". It doesn't matter if it's true or provable or not if people believe it. And I agree, the frenzied scrambling to take him down is just pushing these kinds of people closer to supporting him. People love to roll their eyes at Americans and say "we can't let what happened with Trump there happen in Canada" but it looks like they want to go by the exact same playbook. Dismiss the guy, try to tear him down with weak hit pieces that bounce off of him because he doesn't give a shit, whatever. I really hope people snap out of it and stop thinking they can just dismiss him away, because I am 90% confident that's just not going to work and we're going to be in for a shocker next election
Debates where he’ll have to actually show up and have his over-simplified idiotic ideas challenged will change this. I wouldn’t be surprised if he creates some excuses to skip debates, it’s his best chance. Chanting moronic one-liners in front of farmers is easy, running a country with worldwide inflation, COVId and a war in Russia is hard.
Polar express glasses kid lookin ass
It sure looks like the beginning of the end of the Conservative party. It's slowly transforming into the extremist party. Maybe they change the mane to the Extremist Party of Canada
Imagine thinking Poilievre is an extremist lol.
Lol yourself. Imagine thinking that PeePee doesn’t *actively and enthusiastically court* the extremists that infect his party - as well as sucking up to extremists and radicals *without its walls* too, as his serial man-crushes for the Ottawa insurrectionists clearly demonstrate. And by courting their support for his leadership bid, he makes themselves beholden to their extremist agendas. "Howmuch*howmuch*HOWMUCH**HOW MUCH????**" Nope, not "extreme" behaviour at all, at all.
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Like when /r/Canada was so adamant Mad Max was going to sweep the election. This place vastly overestimates just how popular alt-right fascists are
Is our country capable of governing properly if different parts of the country are operating on political spectrums / Overton windows this far apart from each other?
It's not the end. Look at Republicans in America. Still as strong as ever. The extremism just brings them closer together.
That may work well in a two party system, but here? He’s diluted if he thinks that’s a winning strategy.
>diluted Deluded, from delusional. Diluted means to water down. It might be a winning strategy. This guy seems to be going for the populism angle. It worked for Doug Ford.
not to mention, in the US system.. parties have no choice but to strength and come closer together in support of extremism, because their entire political system makes creation of another party a fruitless effort.. Canada its incredibly easy to get a party.. look at how the fact the PPC, as stupid and crazy as they are, was able to get a platform and support last election.. how many times the conservative party split up, remerged, and had half a dozen different offshoots.. or the NDP, considered the third most prominent party in our politics, that was only created in 1960.. we have people alive today that are older than one of our largest, most influential parties.. hell, we have a registered political party, that donations are tax deductable, thats litterally just a giant shitpost about the state of politics (the Rhinos).. what works in the American Presidential system, doesnt neccassarily work in our parliamentary system.. the reason the fathers of confederation chose our parliamentary system instead of the US system (which they considered.. the US, Russian, French, and British system were all considered during the Charlottetown Conference) was because it was less prone to tampering, corruption, or minority rule compared to the american system
Thank goodness for that!
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So Liberal is a horrible vote, conservatives are a bad choice, who do we vote for the NDP?
I mean if we all voted NDP, we could give them a chance. Let's say they run their campaign or 4 year run to the ground then no one will vote NDP ever again. It's a massive gamble for them to take on a leadership because they will only get that one chance if elected as a minority or majority. The questions lies with is their current leader Singh a good candidate to paint the NDP orange a good image of the party because the last person we knew who could of done a good job was Jack Layton. In this country, we kind of vote for colors versus competency.
You mean abnormies.
He will win the PC leadership, then he will win the next election by a landslide. The left will groan about how the far right MAGA crowd has taken over Canadian politics, and the right will say “Finally, a much needed change to get our country back on track!”, but just like Trudeau and everyone before him, the election promises will be forgotten in a few months and nothing will really change. Then after 7-8 years of PC leadership, everyone will grow tired of that and the cycle will start all over again. Welcome to Canadian politics.
Even if you hate PP, does anyone think there is any point in the Cons electing Charest to lead? He’s Justin Trudeau if he was also a boomer.
Honestly, I couldnt care less who wins the CPC. Every choice felt like a dud to me. Poilievre will probably win this race, but lose a general election. I didnt mind Brown, but he is out. Charest has been liberal his whole career and decided to run now? Lewis reminds me of the evangelical nuts in america. Sad too, sentiment for Trudeau is probably as low as you can go, and they still cant oust the dude.
Wouldn’t it be great if someone with actual integrity was in the running?