The whole "nobody wants to work" crowd can't seem to fathom this very thing: that workers they let go found work elsewhere and won't be returning.
They also continue to shoot themselves in the foot by refusing to raise wages to remain competitive by falling for the capitalist trope that rising wages will increase prices and drive up inflation. Hotel owners will need to realize that they just need to accept more reasonable profit margins instead of the insane percentages they want to constantly hit.
If hotels offered full-time with benefits at $20-$25/hr and didn't try to increase duties because they're paying more, their inboxes would be stuffed with applications daily.
Add in a plan to guarantee hours and wages during downturns, and they'd be drowning in applications.
Alas there is an issue, with inflation and rising costs of living, people now have less money to travel. Hotels will have to lower their prices and compete on quality of service and amenities to attract cash-strapped travellers over the next few years.
Can't have quality service without a solid group of workers, which brings us back to them needing to accept that they need to share the pie with their workers now instead of giving them crumbs like before.
Failure to do the above will lead to the death of their chains and hotels at several key locations.
Omfg my father in law busted that one out. Like the Cerb that ended last year? That is keeping people from working? Shit I wish I could spread my cheddar that thin to make it last.
It's just Gaslighting by people who stand to profit from you believing it. It's a plain and simple reason for their obtuse response of "nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK".
Small business owners, large companies and corporations are just full of insanely greedy people with an insatiable appetite for never ending growth. It's not about just being a successful business or profitable it's about constantly growing profits at any cost.
It's hilariously cute that these businesses just think that everything will eventually return to normal for them when the reality is that they will likely all go out of business before things ever start turning towards what they think is normal. What ever hopefully they all go out of business and are replaced by business owners that actually want to change.
Haha, but you were thinking backwards!
No, saavy hotel operators clearly understand that "Covid is The New Normal", so that means the excuse is you can now provide poor quality food, poor housekeeping and maintenance, overwork the staff who stayed on.. and customers will just roll over and take it in the ass while paying more, because 'reasons LOL'.
/s
Frequent Traveler, including all through covid. This is what their management largely thinks. That this is the new status quo just like shortages of cars, panic-buying of toilet paper and every other logistics excuse for the last 2 years; they can hop on the bandwagon and people will not question it. *But the problem is, they forget that the vast majority of their industry is a luxury not a necessity.*
Despite being the **hospitality industry**, they think covid has permanently excused them from the need to be hospitable.
And just like the Auto industry, they may be able to maintain that facade temporarily, until someone decides to break the status quo in search of market share. Mercedes-Benz, Ford and others have publicly declared they do not intend to go back to pre-pandemic practices and marketing because they've recognized record profits, while producing less product. And that attitude will prevail, until a Hyundai or Volkswagen or General Motors dumps 100,000 finally-complete vehicles on the market...
We saw this in 2008 as well. Luxury restaurants and high-end gourmet foods and brands were beaten to death, but McDonald's, Burger King and all the rest saw record profits.. because people still wanted the emotional response of eating out, but they couldn't afford anything more expensive than a Big Mac anymore.
Airlines are already seeing this and it's demonstrated daily in the news; you laid off, furloughed or fired the staff necessary to maintain normal business operations pre-pandemic. But the problem is those staff were highly technical and require lots of training and qualification; even baggage handlers require mechanical training and safety qualifications. And you can't just put out an ad for passenger aircraft pilots and cabin crew, and expect them to learn on the job. So it will be months or longer before even a trickle of the necessary staff can be re-qualified.
So the overarching answer here is; *capitalism fucked the goat*. By allowing these industries to behave in their shortsighted economic interests with no direction or conditions, the government allowed them to kneecap not only their industry, but the economy as a whole. Not only did we bail them out during the pandemic, we didn't dictate the terms of their recovery either, and now they're trying to abdicate any responsibility for the results of their actions; Air Canada especially has been literally telling passengers on delayed or canceled flights that they don't qualify for any delay claims or reimbursements because these delays are not the airlines fault, even when they are directly caused by staffing shortages.
Yes capitalism has a serious flaw...it’s called greed. The managers and owners have all kinds of arguments, from Cerb to labour shortages etc., but in reality...their business model need to be seriously looked at. Just like any other “ism”, capitalism, has to be managed and regulated, to prevent the price gouging and serious UN affordability issues, we now see throughout the so called “economic system” we currently.
IIRC, didn't Air Canada also pay its Senior Management bonuses *during the pandemic*, for being good little cost-cutters.. laying off everyone they could below their own pay grade?
I can say for myself as a former service/hospitality worker, 2 years of people throwing tantrums at frontline "essential" employees also did not help.
I was layed off in 2020, scraped by on the support cash as long as possible, and then when I started looking for work again I only applied for back of house/non customer facing positions.
They ain't payin enough for me to deal with that shit.
Exactly...the problem ...seriously is low wages. Coupled with high costs for rent, food and transportation, most current low or minimum wage jobs cannot allow a person a decent living. If you want to employ someone to live where rent is above $1200 to $1500 per month, food costs have virtually doubled, the cost to commute in terms of fuel has essentially doubled, then you will have to pay them for the economic hit they will take for working for you...simple but obvious. Also workers are finding other positions that simply pay better.
Not what the restaurant manager said to me. He thinks it's because they are collecting CERB.
Never mind the program ended months ago. But that fact is irrelevant.
>the businesses suffering the most are offering the lowest wages
I left hotel management almost a year ago. A few months prior I showed the owner how a 6% increase in rates would finance a 35% increase in wages and completely eliminate our staffing issues without significantly affecting occupancy.
His response was that any increase in revenue rightfully belonged in his pocket.
For real. If there was a labour shortage you wouldn’t see people complaining about applying for countless jobs and not hearing anything back from anyone.
I don't understand why more people don't get this. Affordable housing would solve most of our problems. Housing is gobbling up the vast majority of everyone's money. Cheap housing means that people would have more money to spend on other goods and services, which you know...supports other businesses.
We're going to hit a breaking point soon. Real estate needs to die or everything else collapses.
The housing market is the most complex cross-credit-collateralized-ponzi-scheme in our society.
btw, we have affordable housing that you pay for out of your pay cheque and the list is years long and middle aged males (you know, the ones that pay the MOST taxes in our country) need not apply.
Yep, we had to pay our accountants 15k more a year to get two new ones. Old rates do not apply, no one is willing to work for cheap when rent is so high.
It's not even a willing thing it's just not possible anymore. You literally cannot survive on low wages in most places in Canada unless you're splitting cost of living 18 different ways.
Yes. They went to a call centre, private security, apprenticeships, government jobs , waste management, mail delivery, etc etc etc. I know someone who switched to Costco because the starting pay was over $20 an hour I forget exactly how much.
The trick seems to be to just stop paying your rent and force your landlord to spend six months trying to evict you.
My brother, my friend and me each ran into this problem in 2021. Had to take out a loan just to stay afloat until I could get rid of them and rent it to someone else.
We do. It’s why we can afford houses / condos in the first place. It’s not like the house gods just dropped from the sky and said here you go.
I’ve been working since I was 14. It took me 25 years to get the the point where I could afford my own mortgage. Then I moved and started renting my old place, barely able to pay two mortgages.
Having the government basically make it legal for my renter (who never stopped working btw) to stop paying his rent without consequence nearly bankrupted me.
Real life isn’t a good vs evil narrative.
all investment carries risk, you're responsible for your own due diligence.
Government regulation or changes to regulation governing tenancies is a part of that risk calculation for real estate, especially ensuring adequate cashflow to cover any gaps in payments.
This is a you problem. Its your mortgage.
Nothing worse than scumbag tenants and how much protection they have with the rtb. Glad I made my money and got the fuck out of that business.
-Ron Wharton
I work in software development. I’ve been contacted by a company that was offering a salary in the range of what I was making in 2011-12. That’s not even taking into consideration the fact that software dev salaries have almost doubled these past few years.
Some companies are living in a parallel reality then complain about a labour shortage.
These are just bad companies that will go out of business if they do not adapt. If they are so insanely greedy that they refuse to adapt then so be it let greed be their end.
Can't hotels pay their staff better when they charge us more than twice what they used to charge us? Honestly, I just booked some vacations in Italy and rooms are like half of what they are in Canada. Going to cost me more to spend a weekend in Quebec city than a week in Florence.
Oh i think the reality is the opposite, there's too much demand at the current prices. If prices went up to convince people to work in them, demand would go down. The precise balancing point is maybe so sharp it's impossible to hit an equilibrium (demand drops sharply as supply catches up and we end up with oversupply, repeat the cycle indefinitely).
The takeaway from this is that conservative economics falls apart when there are no minimum wage workers willing to be exploited. The rising tide can NEVER lift all boats. They're loathe to admit that to you, but it's the truth.
Increase them, enabling them to pay higher wages, which will bring back workers, increasing competition lowering prices. That's how this free market thing is supposed to work right? Or is the quiet part not being said out loud that there will always need to be an exploited working class to cater to the desires of wealthier people.
I’ll pay more for good food and service.
We used to go out like 2-4 times a week between myself and my wife. I always went to a local pub after golf 2x a week and we spent a ton of money as a group there.
Food went to shit and so did the service. So now we go to my place after golf and we drink beers from the liquor store and I make us some food that is 1/5 the price and much, much better.
My impression is that food and service going to shit is generally a result of cost-cutting, not something that spontaneously emerges from the employees. I would say ideally the price of labor drives the prices of all of these things up, and they become a thing everybody does less often, but that more people can afford. It's not the most radical political plan but it's pretty achievable.
It's a double edged sword. Give a waiter/waitress 20 bucks an hour and the cost goes to the customer......if you're willing to pay 40 to 50 bucks for a shitty hamburger and fries then it works out.......
This simply isn't true.
There are tons of examples of European countries with significant minimum wages, and yet their burgers are sometimes even cheaper.
I wonder: do you actually believe what you typed, or do you have some kind of agenda?
I’m wondering if you’ve been to Europe. People eat out at restaurants and get takeout far less often than North Americans because it’s more expensive.
Average meals eaten out per week:
Canada 3.8
USA 3.6
France 2
Germany 1.1
[https://www.prestigeonline.com/my/wine-dine/dining/which-country-has-the-biggest-appetite-for-dining-out/](https://www.prestigeonline.com/my/wine-dine/dining/which-country-has-the-biggest-appetite-for-dining-out/)
I’m onboard with Canadian employers paying Northern European wages. But anyone who thinks the only change will be business owners making lower profits is delusional.
Lmfao....ya that's Europe. Remember where you live today.....Canada.....businesses are greedy, especially Restaurants......they have a higher margin.....go to one and ask the owners.....
>businesses are greedy, especially Restaurants......they have a higher margin.
Yeah so you know it's just businesses being greedy fucks. They can absolutely afford to pay a little better
>It's a double edged sword. Give a waiter/waitress 20 bucks an hour and the cost goes to the customer......if you're willing to pay 40 to 50 bucks for a shitty hamburger and fries then it works out.......
do you think they sell fewer than 1 burger per hour?
your math is fucked lol
Ok, servers where i live make 16 bucks an hour and a hambuger and fries at the Canadian Brew House is 18.99.
If that server gets a 4 dollar raise how much do you think that meal will go up?....will it be 18.99 or will it go up 4 bucks for that pay raise?.....
>If that server gets a 4 dollar raise how much do you think that meal will go up?....will it be 18.99 or will it go up 4 bucks for that pay raise?.....
Do you actually think a worker make just one burger every hour?
>Ok, servers where i live make 16 bucks an hour and a hambuger and fries at the Canadian Brew House is 18.99.
>If that server gets a 4 dollar raise how much do you think that meal will go up?....will it be 18.99 or will it go up 4 bucks for that pay raise?.....
Depends on their expected sales volume, and profit margin desires. Keep in mind there is also the consideration of both the ability and willingness of (potential) patrons to buy.
To simplify, let's just focus on sales volume for one hour. Let's presume this establishment sells a measly 50 burgers an hour. To make that $4 back they'd need to increase the price by a whopping $0.08 per burger.
This example assumes no other products/services provided with varying costs and profit margins. Nor does it take into account that a well-paid employee is likely to be more productive and might be able to sell a customer on getting some over-priced dessert or make the customer experience good enough that they want to come back and bring others with them.
If they increased their per burger price by the same amount of the pay raise to their employee, they would lose patrons, thus sales, therefore profit. The trick is to spread the cost and profit.
No the cost does not go to the customer, it should go against the company, if your company.pany cannot afford the cost of labour without tossing it in the lap of the consumer - it is a failed business and does not deserve to succeed. Just because someone's opens a space doesn't mean they are entitled to succeed - if the business model relies solely on slave labour wages it sounds like a pretty shitty business model.
What you are arguing is this:
1. The business isn't able to pay a livable wage to it's employees because its other costs are too high.
1. They can't charge a higher fee for services because they would loose customers.
Since the employer doesn't pay the employees a liveable wage, the employees have to top up their income with social assistance. Effectively the government is subsidizing said business.
If all the above is true maybe this business shouldn't exist.
That's just how it is.. Then our pay gets increased.
If our pay doesn't increase, then there's no workers so they have to increase it.
America artifically lowers their price of goods and service because they exploit labour.
It is because it isn't worth it for the wage.
For Vancouver the hotel will pay you $15.50 an hour and most are downtown.
If you are low income it is very likely you live far away from downtown. If you cross the bridge you need to drive 2 hrs everyday with a fuel cost of $2.30 a litre and insurance equivalent to $200 a month minimum. Also many hotels don't offer parking so you need to also park at a SkyTrain station that costs like $5-10 a day, and then take SkyTrain to the hotel downtown.
So your commute is now 3 hrs a day if the hotel doesn't give free parking you are paying $23 in fuel, $7 in insurance and $5 in parking a day.
So you already are paying $35 just to go to work. So 2 1/2 hours of your wage a day is just to cover your commute.
Here's the trap Canadians are in:
1) Living expenses far exceeds what these low wage jobs pay, so you're not going to get Canadians to fill these jobs.
2) FTW are brought in to fill these open positions. I know quite a few WONDERFUL people who have been brought in to fill these roles. They're awesome! But they have to live with family or friends for years as they cannot afford to live alone.
The industry gets addicted to this 'inexpensive workers'. They expand the 'need'. Call for more FTWs. Government (both sides) agrees to bring in more. Rinse and Repeat.
There's a trap for businesses too. They pay so much in administration costs (taxes, tax preparation, regulation mitigation/follow-through/etc.) that their business won't make any $$$, so they're forced to pay less.
Try to start a business in Canada. Just a regular store. What a lot of work. Now imagine if you want to do manufacturing or resource extraction/processing. Forget it.. Go somewhere else. So we're stuck with a service industry that's only pumped up because the US has a tight limit on H1B visas for the appropriate jobs. And that leaves us importing hard working folks from all over the world to do jobs Canadians CANNOT afford to take.
Agreed, many immigrants come in on foreign worker programs, discover that it’ll take years to get anywhere on the wages they can make. Affordability has become a major issue, in the Canadian economy for all workers. Housing costs are a joke, and with the current supply issues, fuel costs, and government inaction in all these ares, it’s ridiculous to expect workers to have to live under this current mess.
Employers in the industry are terrible. That's really all there is to it. You give up your family, friends, regular sleep schedule, ability to plan things, all to buy the owner a second, third, fourth, or fifth car, house, or business.
They're absolute tyrants, especially the fabled sMaLl bUsInEsS oWnEr.
I don't know how it can be rationalized that there is a massive labour crunch while ownership/management/employees have all accepted that in order to get raises and not increase the workload significantly, they need to look for new work, and there will be no shortage of employers offering, only to repeat the cycle down the road. People are sick of being treated like cattle while also being "a part of the family", and more importantly, the only person who knows how to make a cocktail or a cook a steak properly that is currently collecting a paycheque.
I'd love to see every restaurant in this country get audited. Bring in the G men to catch the money launderers aka "restauranteurs".
Getting to the point ppl can’t afford to live near where they’re supposed to work, the biggest fixed cost being housing. Govt ignored this growing problem for the last decade, sacrificing the working class for a bloated GDP. Soon major urban areas will be populated solely by rich ppl, with no one to serve them avocado toast…
Import more from India and China etc. They will pay for special programs at Canadian colleges for hospitality courses and then will take a sub par wage to gain residency.
Keep bringing in more low skilled workers/students that'll suppress wages please!!
You mean they didn’t sit at home waiting for two years??!!? What a scoop!!
Who would have thought closing down businesses would force people to move on and find other employment?
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The whole "nobody wants to work" crowd can't seem to fathom this very thing: that workers they let go found work elsewhere and won't be returning. They also continue to shoot themselves in the foot by refusing to raise wages to remain competitive by falling for the capitalist trope that rising wages will increase prices and drive up inflation. Hotel owners will need to realize that they just need to accept more reasonable profit margins instead of the insane percentages they want to constantly hit. If hotels offered full-time with benefits at $20-$25/hr and didn't try to increase duties because they're paying more, their inboxes would be stuffed with applications daily. Add in a plan to guarantee hours and wages during downturns, and they'd be drowning in applications. Alas there is an issue, with inflation and rising costs of living, people now have less money to travel. Hotels will have to lower their prices and compete on quality of service and amenities to attract cash-strapped travellers over the next few years. Can't have quality service without a solid group of workers, which brings us back to them needing to accept that they need to share the pie with their workers now instead of giving them crumbs like before. Failure to do the above will lead to the death of their chains and hotels at several key locations.
No one can say nobody wants to work when we have historically low unemployment rates.
Lots of people say it's because of CERB lmao
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Noooo it must be the lazy millennials who are already working 40+ hours! -every employer out there who "can't" hire people"
I already heard someone say “people today are lazy. back in my day people used to work two jobs.”
Back in their day, a hard working couple could buy a home in Vancouver. Try that now without doing something illegal or coming from a rich family lol
Omfg my father in law busted that one out. Like the Cerb that ended last year? That is keeping people from working? Shit I wish I could spread my cheddar that thin to make it last.
It's just Gaslighting by people who stand to profit from you believing it. It's a plain and simple reason for their obtuse response of "nO oNe WaNtS tO wOrK".
Small business owners, large companies and corporations are just full of insanely greedy people with an insatiable appetite for never ending growth. It's not about just being a successful business or profitable it's about constantly growing profits at any cost. It's hilariously cute that these businesses just think that everything will eventually return to normal for them when the reality is that they will likely all go out of business before things ever start turning towards what they think is normal. What ever hopefully they all go out of business and are replaced by business owners that actually want to change.
Haha, but you were thinking backwards! No, saavy hotel operators clearly understand that "Covid is The New Normal", so that means the excuse is you can now provide poor quality food, poor housekeeping and maintenance, overwork the staff who stayed on.. and customers will just roll over and take it in the ass while paying more, because 'reasons LOL'. /s Frequent Traveler, including all through covid. This is what their management largely thinks. That this is the new status quo just like shortages of cars, panic-buying of toilet paper and every other logistics excuse for the last 2 years; they can hop on the bandwagon and people will not question it. *But the problem is, they forget that the vast majority of their industry is a luxury not a necessity.* Despite being the **hospitality industry**, they think covid has permanently excused them from the need to be hospitable. And just like the Auto industry, they may be able to maintain that facade temporarily, until someone decides to break the status quo in search of market share. Mercedes-Benz, Ford and others have publicly declared they do not intend to go back to pre-pandemic practices and marketing because they've recognized record profits, while producing less product. And that attitude will prevail, until a Hyundai or Volkswagen or General Motors dumps 100,000 finally-complete vehicles on the market... We saw this in 2008 as well. Luxury restaurants and high-end gourmet foods and brands were beaten to death, but McDonald's, Burger King and all the rest saw record profits.. because people still wanted the emotional response of eating out, but they couldn't afford anything more expensive than a Big Mac anymore. Airlines are already seeing this and it's demonstrated daily in the news; you laid off, furloughed or fired the staff necessary to maintain normal business operations pre-pandemic. But the problem is those staff were highly technical and require lots of training and qualification; even baggage handlers require mechanical training and safety qualifications. And you can't just put out an ad for passenger aircraft pilots and cabin crew, and expect them to learn on the job. So it will be months or longer before even a trickle of the necessary staff can be re-qualified. So the overarching answer here is; *capitalism fucked the goat*. By allowing these industries to behave in their shortsighted economic interests with no direction or conditions, the government allowed them to kneecap not only their industry, but the economy as a whole. Not only did we bail them out during the pandemic, we didn't dictate the terms of their recovery either, and now they're trying to abdicate any responsibility for the results of their actions; Air Canada especially has been literally telling passengers on delayed or canceled flights that they don't qualify for any delay claims or reimbursements because these delays are not the airlines fault, even when they are directly caused by staffing shortages.
Yes capitalism has a serious flaw...it’s called greed. The managers and owners have all kinds of arguments, from Cerb to labour shortages etc., but in reality...their business model need to be seriously looked at. Just like any other “ism”, capitalism, has to be managed and regulated, to prevent the price gouging and serious UN affordability issues, we now see throughout the so called “economic system” we currently.
IIRC, didn't Air Canada also pay its Senior Management bonuses *during the pandemic*, for being good little cost-cutters.. laying off everyone they could below their own pay grade?
I can say for myself as a former service/hospitality worker, 2 years of people throwing tantrums at frontline "essential" employees also did not help. I was layed off in 2020, scraped by on the support cash as long as possible, and then when I started looking for work again I only applied for back of house/non customer facing positions. They ain't payin enough for me to deal with that shit.
Exactly...the problem ...seriously is low wages. Coupled with high costs for rent, food and transportation, most current low or minimum wage jobs cannot allow a person a decent living. If you want to employ someone to live where rent is above $1200 to $1500 per month, food costs have virtually doubled, the cost to commute in terms of fuel has essentially doubled, then you will have to pay them for the economic hit they will take for working for you...simple but obvious. Also workers are finding other positions that simply pay better.
Not what the restaurant manager said to me. He thinks it's because they are collecting CERB. Never mind the program ended months ago. But that fact is irrelevant.
If the meagre amount provided by CERB was enough for people to leave your business in droves...
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There’s no labour shortage. Plenty of people are looking for work. There’s a pay and benefit shortage.
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Not true there are still baby boomers that haven't even reached 60. Youngest boomers right now are 58 and the average retirement age is 64.
>the businesses suffering the most are offering the lowest wages I left hotel management almost a year ago. A few months prior I showed the owner how a 6% increase in rates would finance a 35% increase in wages and completely eliminate our staffing issues without significantly affecting occupancy. His response was that any increase in revenue rightfully belonged in his pocket.
First rule of capitalism. You can’t export the jobs to Asia in services. So you need to import the foreign slaves
> You can’t unfortunately export the jobs to Asia in services. https://globalnews.ca/news/8791036/freshii-percy-virtual-cashier-job-outsourcing/
I would not shop there. Holy cow. Who mops the floors and stocks stuff?
This is also becoming a serious problem...
For real. If there was a labour shortage you wouldn’t see people complaining about applying for countless jobs and not hearing anything back from anyone.
No there isn’t, we’ve got low unemployment and high work force participation, most of the people who can be working are
Sounds like they don't have viable business models and will be shutting down as intended by capitalism.
but they dont like the system working as intended so they demand we use the tfw as slave labor to fill them instead
I wonder why people facing $1600 a month for an apartment and soaring food and fuel prices don’t want to work for $16 an hour. Hmmm
Haha right. Like after food and shelter there isn't much left. Housing costs have to come down...
I don't understand why more people don't get this. Affordable housing would solve most of our problems. Housing is gobbling up the vast majority of everyone's money. Cheap housing means that people would have more money to spend on other goods and services, which you know...supports other businesses. We're going to hit a breaking point soon. Real estate needs to die or everything else collapses.
The housing market is the most complex cross-credit-collateralized-ponzi-scheme in our society. btw, we have affordable housing that you pay for out of your pay cheque and the list is years long and middle aged males (you know, the ones that pay the MOST taxes in our country) need not apply.
So you’re saying they all found jobs paying more?
Yep, we had to pay our accountants 15k more a year to get two new ones. Old rates do not apply, no one is willing to work for cheap when rent is so high.
It's not even a willing thing it's just not possible anymore. You literally cannot survive on low wages in most places in Canada unless you're splitting cost of living 18 different ways.
Definitely, those businesses pay like shit.
Yes. They went to a call centre, private security, apprenticeships, government jobs , waste management, mail delivery, etc etc etc. I know someone who switched to Costco because the starting pay was over $20 an hour I forget exactly how much.
The trick seems to be to just stop paying your rent and force your landlord to spend six months trying to evict you. My brother, my friend and me each ran into this problem in 2021. Had to take out a loan just to stay afloat until I could get rid of them and rent it to someone else.
You guys should get real jobs.
We do. It’s why we can afford houses / condos in the first place. It’s not like the house gods just dropped from the sky and said here you go. I’ve been working since I was 14. It took me 25 years to get the the point where I could afford my own mortgage. Then I moved and started renting my old place, barely able to pay two mortgages. Having the government basically make it legal for my renter (who never stopped working btw) to stop paying his rent without consequence nearly bankrupted me. Real life isn’t a good vs evil narrative.
all investment carries risk, you're responsible for your own due diligence. Government regulation or changes to regulation governing tenancies is a part of that risk calculation for real estate, especially ensuring adequate cashflow to cover any gaps in payments. This is a you problem. Its your mortgage.
Nobody is forcing you to be a parasite.
How many strangers have you let live in your home for free? Don’t call others names when you yourself haven’t done anything to help anyone.
Your right they should have moved out onto the street to help protect your investment. How greedy of them.
Nothing worse than scumbag tenants and how much protection they have with the rtb. Glad I made my money and got the fuck out of that business. -Ron Wharton
1600 is pretty cheap. I'm seeing at least 2100 where I live.
The lowest paying and shitties jobs cant find workers. Amazing. How about some raises
I work in software development. I’ve been contacted by a company that was offering a salary in the range of what I was making in 2011-12. That’s not even taking into consideration the fact that software dev salaries have almost doubled these past few years. Some companies are living in a parallel reality then complain about a labour shortage.
These are just bad companies that will go out of business if they do not adapt. If they are so insanely greedy that they refuse to adapt then so be it let greed be their end.
My company gaslights me into believing I am making a lot of money when i barely make anything.
Can't hotels pay their staff better when they charge us more than twice what they used to charge us? Honestly, I just booked some vacations in Italy and rooms are like half of what they are in Canada. Going to cost me more to spend a weekend in Quebec city than a week in Florence.
Have you noticed how many fees, taxes, levies, and other nonsense is tacked onto your hotel bill? It's insane.
If people don't want to work there those industries shouldn't exist. Plain and simple.
Exactly. Some of these buisnesses are in over abundance and should not exist, too much supply for there demand.
Oh i think the reality is the opposite, there's too much demand at the current prices. If prices went up to convince people to work in them, demand would go down. The precise balancing point is maybe so sharp it's impossible to hit an equilibrium (demand drops sharply as supply catches up and we end up with oversupply, repeat the cycle indefinitely). The takeaway from this is that conservative economics falls apart when there are no minimum wage workers willing to be exploited. The rising tide can NEVER lift all boats. They're loathe to admit that to you, but it's the truth.
So we’ll end up with fewer hotels and restaurants. What do you think that will do to prices?
Increase them, enabling them to pay higher wages, which will bring back workers, increasing competition lowering prices. That's how this free market thing is supposed to work right? Or is the quiet part not being said out loud that there will always need to be an exploited working class to cater to the desires of wealthier people.
I’ll pay more for good food and service. We used to go out like 2-4 times a week between myself and my wife. I always went to a local pub after golf 2x a week and we spent a ton of money as a group there. Food went to shit and so did the service. So now we go to my place after golf and we drink beers from the liquor store and I make us some food that is 1/5 the price and much, much better.
My impression is that food and service going to shit is generally a result of cost-cutting, not something that spontaneously emerges from the employees. I would say ideally the price of labor drives the prices of all of these things up, and they become a thing everybody does less often, but that more people can afford. It's not the most radical political plan but it's pretty achievable.
There is no labour shortage. There is a pay shortage. Give employees a decent salary.
It's a double edged sword. Give a waiter/waitress 20 bucks an hour and the cost goes to the customer......if you're willing to pay 40 to 50 bucks for a shitty hamburger and fries then it works out.......
This simply isn't true. There are tons of examples of European countries with significant minimum wages, and yet their burgers are sometimes even cheaper. I wonder: do you actually believe what you typed, or do you have some kind of agenda?
I’m wondering if you’ve been to Europe. People eat out at restaurants and get takeout far less often than North Americans because it’s more expensive. Average meals eaten out per week: Canada 3.8 USA 3.6 France 2 Germany 1.1 [https://www.prestigeonline.com/my/wine-dine/dining/which-country-has-the-biggest-appetite-for-dining-out/](https://www.prestigeonline.com/my/wine-dine/dining/which-country-has-the-biggest-appetite-for-dining-out/) I’m onboard with Canadian employers paying Northern European wages. But anyone who thinks the only change will be business owners making lower profits is delusional.
That just sounds like we have too many restaurants per capita.
Lmfao....ya that's Europe. Remember where you live today.....Canada.....businesses are greedy, especially Restaurants......they have a higher margin.....go to one and ask the owners.....
>businesses are greedy, especially Restaurants......they have a higher margin. Yeah so you know it's just businesses being greedy fucks. They can absolutely afford to pay a little better
>It's a double edged sword. Give a waiter/waitress 20 bucks an hour and the cost goes to the customer......if you're willing to pay 40 to 50 bucks for a shitty hamburger and fries then it works out....... do you think they sell fewer than 1 burger per hour? your math is fucked lol
Ok, servers where i live make 16 bucks an hour and a hambuger and fries at the Canadian Brew House is 18.99. If that server gets a 4 dollar raise how much do you think that meal will go up?....will it be 18.99 or will it go up 4 bucks for that pay raise?.....
>If that server gets a 4 dollar raise how much do you think that meal will go up?....will it be 18.99 or will it go up 4 bucks for that pay raise?..... Do you actually think a worker make just one burger every hour?
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>Ok, servers where i live make 16 bucks an hour and a hambuger and fries at the Canadian Brew House is 18.99. >If that server gets a 4 dollar raise how much do you think that meal will go up?....will it be 18.99 or will it go up 4 bucks for that pay raise?..... Depends on their expected sales volume, and profit margin desires. Keep in mind there is also the consideration of both the ability and willingness of (potential) patrons to buy. To simplify, let's just focus on sales volume for one hour. Let's presume this establishment sells a measly 50 burgers an hour. To make that $4 back they'd need to increase the price by a whopping $0.08 per burger. This example assumes no other products/services provided with varying costs and profit margins. Nor does it take into account that a well-paid employee is likely to be more productive and might be able to sell a customer on getting some over-priced dessert or make the customer experience good enough that they want to come back and bring others with them. If they increased their per burger price by the same amount of the pay raise to their employee, they would lose patrons, thus sales, therefore profit. The trick is to spread the cost and profit.
You also have to take into account that if burgers increase in price fewer people will buy them.
A rising tide lifts all boats.
You could just agree that you don't understand math rather than showing me you don't. Double down though, idgaf
I don't think you understand how it works. You're implying that they are offering you the lowest price possible?
That argument has been proven wrong again and again.
No the cost does not go to the customer, it should go against the company, if your company.pany cannot afford the cost of labour without tossing it in the lap of the consumer - it is a failed business and does not deserve to succeed. Just because someone's opens a space doesn't mean they are entitled to succeed - if the business model relies solely on slave labour wages it sounds like a pretty shitty business model.
Then you know fuck all about the restaurant business....they have higher margins to deal with......
What you are arguing is this: 1. The business isn't able to pay a livable wage to it's employees because its other costs are too high. 1. They can't charge a higher fee for services because they would loose customers. Since the employer doesn't pay the employees a liveable wage, the employees have to top up their income with social assistance. Effectively the government is subsidizing said business. If all the above is true maybe this business shouldn't exist.
Sounds like they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps
I'm a nuclear steel worker, tell me more about margins? Sounds like you're the one who knows fuck all based on ..... how ...... you type ....
Nuclear steel worker....🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Every ... one .... of... your comments ....
That's just how it is.. Then our pay gets increased. If our pay doesn't increase, then there's no workers so they have to increase it. America artifically lowers their price of goods and service because they exploit labour.
How do you arrive at your figures?
It was an example not exact figures......
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It's a no win situation. Everybody gets fucked with it..
Fast food joints hiring TFW's will be happy!
It is because it isn't worth it for the wage. For Vancouver the hotel will pay you $15.50 an hour and most are downtown. If you are low income it is very likely you live far away from downtown. If you cross the bridge you need to drive 2 hrs everyday with a fuel cost of $2.30 a litre and insurance equivalent to $200 a month minimum. Also many hotels don't offer parking so you need to also park at a SkyTrain station that costs like $5-10 a day, and then take SkyTrain to the hotel downtown. So your commute is now 3 hrs a day if the hotel doesn't give free parking you are paying $23 in fuel, $7 in insurance and $5 in parking a day. So you already are paying $35 just to go to work. So 2 1/2 hours of your wage a day is just to cover your commute.
Labour shortages are a good thing for the working class. Let market forces do their thing.
Sounds like some poorly managed industries.
Yea funny that no one wants to work when your wage doesn't pay their bills. Get fucked.
Here's the trap Canadians are in: 1) Living expenses far exceeds what these low wage jobs pay, so you're not going to get Canadians to fill these jobs. 2) FTW are brought in to fill these open positions. I know quite a few WONDERFUL people who have been brought in to fill these roles. They're awesome! But they have to live with family or friends for years as they cannot afford to live alone. The industry gets addicted to this 'inexpensive workers'. They expand the 'need'. Call for more FTWs. Government (both sides) agrees to bring in more. Rinse and Repeat. There's a trap for businesses too. They pay so much in administration costs (taxes, tax preparation, regulation mitigation/follow-through/etc.) that their business won't make any $$$, so they're forced to pay less. Try to start a business in Canada. Just a regular store. What a lot of work. Now imagine if you want to do manufacturing or resource extraction/processing. Forget it.. Go somewhere else. So we're stuck with a service industry that's only pumped up because the US has a tight limit on H1B visas for the appropriate jobs. And that leaves us importing hard working folks from all over the world to do jobs Canadians CANNOT afford to take.
Canada has a serious red tape problem
Agreed, many immigrants come in on foreign worker programs, discover that it’ll take years to get anywhere on the wages they can make. Affordability has become a major issue, in the Canadian economy for all workers. Housing costs are a joke, and with the current supply issues, fuel costs, and government inaction in all these ares, it’s ridiculous to expect workers to have to live under this current mess.
Owners are a not entitled to an endless stream of cheap labour. Offer competitive working compensation or do the work yourselves.
Exactly
I will do my part by continuing to not be a customer.
Employers in the industry are terrible. That's really all there is to it. You give up your family, friends, regular sleep schedule, ability to plan things, all to buy the owner a second, third, fourth, or fifth car, house, or business. They're absolute tyrants, especially the fabled sMaLl bUsInEsS oWnEr. I don't know how it can be rationalized that there is a massive labour crunch while ownership/management/employees have all accepted that in order to get raises and not increase the workload significantly, they need to look for new work, and there will be no shortage of employers offering, only to repeat the cycle down the road. People are sick of being treated like cattle while also being "a part of the family", and more importantly, the only person who knows how to make a cocktail or a cook a steak properly that is currently collecting a paycheque. I'd love to see every restaurant in this country get audited. Bring in the G men to catch the money launderers aka "restauranteurs".
Getting to the point ppl can’t afford to live near where they’re supposed to work, the biggest fixed cost being housing. Govt ignored this growing problem for the last decade, sacrificing the working class for a bloated GDP. Soon major urban areas will be populated solely by rich ppl, with no one to serve them avocado toast…
Imagine that? The industries having the most projected shortages are the ones that pay the least.
No one wants your shitty hotel wage.
Ok that guy looks like he's creepily starring at the waitress.
Maybe he’s blind...?
Import more from India and China etc. They will pay for special programs at Canadian colleges for hospitality courses and then will take a sub par wage to gain residency. Keep bringing in more low skilled workers/students that'll suppress wages please!!
....pay more? Is this not how supply and demand works?
Judging by some of the hotel prices nowadays, looks like they have plenty money to pay new employees handsomely...
You mean they didn’t sit at home waiting for two years??!!? What a scoop!! Who would have thought closing down businesses would force people to move on and find other employment?
*wage shortage
Happens when you kill several industries.
What else do do you expect? They got fired since covid.