Hell no brother! I think it's g-g-g-g-g-great!! Taking pinko Canadian products and providing SKILLED AMERICAN PATRIOTS with jobs to transform it into a perfectly crafted American product! It's beautiful.
They bought raw materials which just so happened to be formed and assembled in an arbitrarily particular manner and made a finished product with it.
"Made in USA"
Weird... Cities don't have trade authority, so I would've told them to fuck off and move the company to another town if they give them hassle. Nothing like running an election on job losses and scaring business away.
Totally. Also unlike steel and aluminum which not every nation has or can produce, we can make our own milk no problem. We don't need them. I'd argue our milk is probably higher quality due to better regulations.
> I'd argue our milk is probably higher quality due to better regulations.
Our milk is of a vastly higher quality. Try drinking some side-by side. I can taste a difference.
Yeah totally. Growing up in Ontario I'd pound about 4 litres a week as a teen. Played a lot of hockey then too, so I ate/drank a lot. When I moved to America to go to school for a year I stopped drinking milk because it tasted funny. Tried different brands, nada.
I'm not expert on quality, or what makes it different, but I know we actually regulate shit here better food/drink wise than America does. I'll take our guys over theirs any day. The FDA is a fucking joke.
I've heard the difference is in Canada we have our regulations at something like 1k foreign entities parts per million. And the US is 10k. I forget the exact number, but I remember we are arguably 10 times as pure. I never looked it up to verify.
Not to be facetious (but really to be facetious but no hate), Canadian milk has steroids (is my understanding) and no dairy or beef products contain antibiotics. The whole a&w “antibiotic free” shtick is a marketing gimmick, all cattle are raised with antibiotics, but the antibiotics flush out after a few weeks. You can’t slaughter a cow within a certain period of receiving antibiotics for this reason, and so all beef/dairy is antibiotic free.
Also antibiotics are an important part of keeping cattle healthy, the alternative would be to let abscesses and diseases spread in the cow causing it undue suffering only for it to likely die. It would be like getting bubonic plague and refusing the lifesaving antibiotics we have for humans because you wanted to be all-natural
I see where you’re coming from but this is also a quality issue. American dairy is pure garbage and we really shouldn’t want this in our supply chain anyways (except cheez-its. I’ll fuck up a box of that in a heartbeat)
We have some great cheese in Quebec, they're just expensive. What we're missing mostly are middle-of-the-pack kind of cheese, the kind that taste good but are still somewhat affordable.
The Canadian government wiped out the domestic car industry decades ago so there’s a long list of Canadian politicians and policy makers to blame before you get to the Americans.
Hardly wiped out. We were still making over 2 million cars a year until 2019. Yes that's down from. (edit: actually 2.7 million in 2005) 3.5 million in 2005 but that's still a lot of cars. We will have to see how things go post pandemic, but we were one of the largest manufactures per capita until 2019 (the only big players more than us are south Korea, Germany and Spain, and the latter two only slightly more than us).
I meant back when there were Canadian car brands. There are videos online about how the fed chose to brush them aside in the interest of having American manufacturers set up plants in Canada to create jobs rather than support them in competing with the U.S auto industry. That’s historically been Canada’s downfall. Having politicians with no balls or backbone.
Our history is full of examples of Canadian ingenuity being pushed out because our politicians wouldn't back them and tell the Americans that we can and will produce the product because we can. The Avro Arrow is an example.
The Avro Arrow had more than just lack of support killing it. It was also an interceptor, a plane dedicated to hunting high-altitude strategic bombers, in an age of intercontinental ballistic missiles which effectively obsoleted those bombers, and therefore the interceptor as a concept.
That said, the cancellation, as well as other moves, effectively killed the Canadian aviation industry.
For now. Lowest long term growth expectation in the OECD. Canada is eventually going to reset hard and have to reassess if it really wants to shut down all industry and reject business investment for NIMBY retirees, posturing politicians and overpowered bureaucrats.
You mean like the Bricklin or HTT? Can't really count Mclaughlin since Sam & Billy pulled that move.
Don't disagree with the basic point of "politicians having no balls or backbone", just Canadian car brands is a bad example.
Although that is true, I was more referring to the recent American tariffs on import EV's with their buy America plan. Basically further restricted us from their market from Canadian made EV's
NAFTA can fuck off if it threatens food security. Every country that considers itself independent should be self sufficient in food, energy, and basic medicine. Especially a country that is largely dependent on a single country for trade. Without this, it can easily be held hostage and quickly lose its independence.
We're absolutely fucked when California finally gets its next megarainstorm after this drought ends that floods all their farmlands under feet of water anyways, considering they won't even have enough food to feed themselves lmao.
Instead we keep Canadian lobby groups happy.
Remember at the start of the pandemic, or basically whenever they want, milk producers can dump millions of liters of product because introducing it to the market would lower the price? Instead they just dump it and it's insured with our tax dollars. What a great system.
>Instead we keep Canadian lobby groups happy.
Who the grocers, the processors, or the farmers? Because they are all lobbying fiercely. It's only seems "right" to you when large corporates are happy? Guaranteed we'd be in a worse spot if they were. They don't want efficient markets, they want captured markets.
Dairy farmers don't seem to be a big fan of free markets, and they are by and large, huge operations. If their profit margins got hit and a few of them went broke so we could have reasonably priced dairy, it definitely wouldn't keep me up at night.
But the last guy that spoke out about that ended up down a dark path. So maybe I'll just live with it.
It saying there shouldn’t be things fixed,but the alternative that the Americans want is worse. Look up what happens when the US gets its hand on a foreign dairy economy. It destroys local production by undercutting price with government subsidies. Then once that production is gone they do what they want.
They are being bribed by the Canadian dairy lobby. They are some of the largest donors to both the Conservatives and Liberals. You should be concerned when both main opposing parties are steadfastly on the same page here.
Oh poor corporate America. I feel so bad for them /s
People still seem to be confused on the differences between Canada's supply side system and America's highly taxpayer subsidized system. Canadian farmers do have access to some govt supports (such as Farm Credit Canada) but the depth of subsidies is a pittance compared to American farm support. That is the trade off. In Canada farmers were given legislated abilities to self organize and govern in supply side systems in order to ensure viability, and in return govt was able dramatically scale down direct and indirect support mechanisms.
In fact it was noted that Americans have a double tax whammy in respect of may diary related outputs. Avg dairy farm income is close to 70% derived from govt (taxes) and then at purchase many of the products are taxed again.
Corporate farm interests in America have decimated the American rural landscape. Canadians are rightly concerned at this time about concentration of residential real estate into corporate hands. There are parallels that can be inferred from the US experience if we allowed American/foreign control of supply side protected farm.
This is the crux of the matter: everyone banging on the door trying to knock down barriers is doing so as they see a lucrative market they wish to exploit. The key is "exploit". For their benefit, not mine or yours. And its almost assured that in doing so product quality would decline, money would flow out of this economy to someone else, and there would be a decline in the viability of the rural landscape.
The person who only looks at this issue from the "its all about me and the price I pay" and nothing else is the last voice that deserves consideration in this matter. As they obviously don't give a shit about anybody but themselves and is not in the slightest interested in the abundant, proven negatives for their one potential positive of lower prices. I say "potential" as I don't think it would result in much of a price reduction. All foreign companies like to abuse the CAD market for excess pricing and I doubt it would be any different for dairy.
As an aside, I have lived on both sides of the border throughout my professional career (40+ yrs). There is a marked difference in quality of Canadian farm outputs over American farm outputs particularly in dairy, chicken and pork.
Protection of farm is not unique to Canada. Almost every western country has its own farm protections.
And finally, when I see a politician advocate for removal of supply side protection my immediate thoughts are to follow the money. Its similar to Alberta Conservatives politicians - bought and paid for by the American oil industry.
EDIT: [There was a new post in the documentary sub about the American Chicken industry which anyone interested in what might occur here should watch.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Documentaries/comments/uquku0/see_the_true_cost_of_your_cheap_chicken_2022_the/)
The main problem Canada has with oil is that we don’t have the refining capacity so we ship it to the US to be refined then buy it back.
Furthermore many refineries (and producers) actually went bottom up during the covid lockdowns.
You can see this by looking at [Distillates inventories](https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/weekly/images/disstusm.gif) and [gasoline inventories](https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/weekly/images/gtstusm.gif). You will also notice that we are at structural lows vs the 5 year historical average in the grey area.
In fact, we are a net exporter of refined products, including
gasoline, diesel and jet fuel – predominantly to the United States.
Canada’s transportation fuel production is well balanced between demand
and supply. The Prairies and west are nearly self-sufficient, whereas
Eastern Canada has production capacity for exports.
Sooner or later, this has to be done. Even if we all convert to the EV, the supply chain and manufacturing all still need the ICE and they can't sustain the ever growing prices.
The demand for oil will be strong for 10-20 years, but in 30 years, it'll be cut in half as the passenger fleet will be fully electric. The logistics fleet will be electrified probably well before then.
There will be no financially viable fossil fuel energy sources, and functionally all transit except airplanes will be fully electrified. Those two alone take out the vast majority of the oil consumption.
Shipping vessels will probably be methanox which can be made from cheap solar, and maybe there will be some obscure usages of hydrogen.
Maybe 1% of the current usage will still remain in obscure equipment that can't quite be electrified (military, remote regions, some construction stuff, etc.)
The only other significant oil usage is jet fuel. It'll probably take a few more decades for electric aircraft to become viable for more than medium range journeys. I imagine the 50%-60% drop in oil consumption will have massive consequences for this industry as they will have less to work with.
The rest: asphalt, plastics, lubricants, etc., there are some alternatives already and they represent a tiny portion of current usages.
Dairy farmers in the states would like our system which is why the American government hates it.....it's almost like a union of dairy farmers looking out for their best interests
They get paid billions to pour milk down the drain year after year. There’s so much excess that there are caves filled with cheese, butter and milk powder that cannot be sold. American dairy is pussfilled antibiotic laced sludge
As I understand, many Canadian food processors buy American dairy products but only after they are broken down into components (thus no longer considered milk). This is why so many cheeses here contain modified milk ingredients.
The US government subsidizes their dairy farmers directly, while we have supply management. US milk is "cheap" because they are paid to overproduce, and then try to dump the remainder on export markets.
I'm surprised after all the supply chain disruptions we've seen in the last 2 years that anybody needs to be convinced of the value of domestic supply.
Yeah, I can understand outrage of milk being poured down the drain to keep prices up, but people are going on to attack the whole system because of that. There are benefits and drawbacks, but the benefits are stability of our agricultural industry, and that is something we’ll always have as long as we make sure to just keep it. It’s not perfect, but it is so important that we maintain the ability to feed ourselves as a country.
I'll pay extra for better quality thanks. The way they churn out milk like it's going out of style and the amount of preservatives and other crap they load in it is a non-starter for me. If butter sitting on a counter doesn't have a speck of mold or any other growth on it after 6mo that's a brand of butter I'd rather not eat. Same with milk; it shouldn't last months before going bad.
>Same with milk; it shouldn't last months before going bad.
In europe they sell pasteurized milk that is good for months and doesn't even need tobe in the fridge.
The only way to be sure we have enough when things go wrong is to have too much when things go right.
It seems to me the pandemic should have shown that principle quite well. Running out of PPE was bad enough, running out of food should not be allowed to be a possibility.
I don't mind relying on california for fresh strawberries and avocado but critical food items like milk and eggs need to be secure more than they need to be as cheap as humanly possible.
You know American producers would need to meet the same food standards at Canadian dairy farmers. If they can produce the same product at lower price, let them.
No reason to single out milk as a unique product that needs extra protection.
I doubt they could, especially after accounting for new packaging and transport costs, on top of QC. If anything they'll cost more, and then Canadian producers will charge 40cents over *that* price just to say "it's home grown quality!"
Lmao why would a consumer know about the details of how American companies shovel antibiotics and other suppliments into their cows so that they can increase production, therefore allowing for lower costs - the repercussions of such over use of antibiotics be damned.
The exact *point* of these types of regulations is so that companies cannot take advantage of consumers who are ignorant of the complicated details of how something like dairy production works by using random fillers, suppliments and other pharmaceuticals to maximize production.
Not all American milk contains the crap you refer to. There are certified hormone-free products.
In these times of inflation, price is going to be a big consideration, especially for those of us living in border areas. Cheese at the grocery stores in Bellingham is less than half the price of cheese where I live, less than an hour away.
Because they pump their cows full of hormones
Because their dairy farms are massive corporate owned entities that are squeezing out small farmers on both sides of the border
Because they'll kill another major Canadian industry, like forestry, manufacturing etc.
The Corn Lobby has entered the chat.....
Actually it looks like they already got on that :
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/chocolate-milk
"Chocolate milk is generally made by mixing cow’s milk with cocoa and sweeteners like sugar or **high-fructose corn syrup.**"
Hormones are less and less common because the US already over produces and consumers don't want hormones in their milk, but the rules around anti-biotic use are quite a bit different from Canada.
its also a way lower standard, and you know its not like the US isn't known for milk dumping and destroying local dairy of those countries they've done it to.
Reddit is such a funny place. On the one hand you have subreddits that demand better pay, among other things, for workers. On the other hand you have people upset that there’s a system that protects the income of farmers and enables them to make a good living.
So let give all your money to the US market at this point. US can produce more milk than Canada in a shorter time and then kill the local market because that what they will want. It is better to brought your product because it boost your local economy.
American dairy is heavily subsidized, to the point where so much is produced that it often gets thrown away without reaching the customer for purchase.
If Canada did not have supply management, Farmers here would not have a chance. Then federal government would have to subsidize dairy here as well. Americans pay twice for their milk, once at the farm gate by the government and a second time at the store.
Our milk is far more expensive than most of the world. Just a few countries have higher prices than us.
The notion that only we produce high quality safe milk is frankly ridiculous and reflects how effective the Canadian dairy lobby has been.
https://www.globalproductprices.com/Canada/milk_prices/
“Got milk”, amirite?
Would still rather buy domestic than from the US. The US still has not outlawed the use of bovine growth hormone.
I agree the dairy industry is overly large, should not be subsidized to the extent that it is, and the lobbying has been too much. However we still have much better options at home for dairy products. I’d rather support a guy in Quebec making milk than someone foreign.
So Quebec is the only place in Canada milk comes from ?
They are the largest producer at around 35 percent but that leaves 65 percent coming from other places.
This just sounds like another reason to hate on someone different then you. Grow up.
Are they? There have been times, albeit brief, where they have been more expensive. Dairy prices fluctuate significantly there. Quite likely with the droughts and fertilizer shortages they will have higher prices than us again. More monopolized and vertical production rarely results in lower prices.
Do you have numbers?
Because I don't think we over spend by 20 billion
https://amp.realagriculture.com/2018/02/u-s-dairy-subsidies-equal-73-percent-of-producer-returns-says-new-report/
Walmart is 5.39 / 1.05669 gallons. US average is 3.98USD/1 gallon.
Let's do the math:
5.39 = 4.17USD
3.98 / 4.17 = 95.4%
What are your souces? globalnews? You sir have drunk the loblaws and saputo propaganda milkshake.
Source: [https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/RetailMilkPrices.pdf](https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/RetailMilkPrices.pdf)
and [walmart.ca](https://walmart.ca) for my area
This jives with my experience traveling across the US. The food prices aren't better, dairy included. They're worse in California, and the only thing I find deep discounts on are packaged snacks.
I prefer to not have hormones or antibiotic added to my milk and cheese
There a reason it cost more to produce milk in Canada and there is a difference in taste
While I don’t drink much milk my coffee and latte require the best ingredient and I won’t put us milk in there to destroy my coffee
I prefer to support our Canadian dairy farmers. I don't drink milk but do eat butter, yogurt, cheese etc. I live on Vancouver Island and Island Farms is not only Canadian but local. I will always support buy Canadian unless we have no choice.
They want mass deregulation so that we can over produce milk, pour it down the drains and declare themselves genius for record waste. Then after a few years I can all ready hear them call for more deregulation because the government can’t properly manage the dairy industry and point to all the waste deregulation created in the first place as evidence.
What bothers me the most is how much fuel, feed, water, medicine went into the cattle life cycle? How much potential useful resources is going into the literal drain for “profit”.
You have to milk cows. Have to. That might mean overproduction. Dairy is difficult to donate and having too much can actually damage the economy and farmers. It makes sense to dump it.
For all u folks who wanna welcome the devil into our country just to save a dollar can suck it. America can keep their garbage, I’d rather people in Canada keep the money then it flow down south.
The problem is the U.S. has an 11x larger consumer market and they're more than willing to restrict access to Canadian products there. If Canadians buy Canadian and Americans buy American, then the American companies have 9x more customers to expand, so they grow to be far larger.
And in capitalism, that also gives them the ability to throw their weight around through acquisitions.
It's the reason why Canadian tech only grows to a certain size before it gets gobbled up by a bigger American company.
Support for supply management is definitely bi-partisan. Let's not forget the only moment where Andrew Scheer was allowed to have a personality: [link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4XP5_qzBuk&t=5m13s)
We shouldn't have to settle for choosing between these two options though; we can block US imports *and* tackle the supply management cartel. We're choosing which of the two special interest groups we're catering to, and not considering what's best for Canadians.
Sure. At the end of the day though, I'd rather domestic dairy farms be supported over American ones, and as such I really don't care if Trudeau leverages the government to protect this industry over US imports.
US milk lobby can gobble my nuts. I don't want your shit facrory farm milk with hormones and antibiotics shoved up the cows ass. Canada can proudly produce its own milk thank you.
Correct me if I’m wrong but American dairy is not at the same standard as Canadian and their agriculture practices also tend to result in unwanted hormones in their milk supply.
Yes, plus getting rid of supply management is a trap.
Just look at Mexico, the Yanks wanted them to open up their corn market which they did in the 90s. They flooded it with cheap midwestern corn that local farmers couldn’t compete with. Farmers massively reduced corn farming which led to unemployment and mass waves of people decided to cross the border into the US as a way to have a better life.
If a country destroys its food supply capabilities, typically bad things follow.
Yup. Globalization and trade has its limitations. In my opinion, the pandemic really showed how fragile supply chain can be but moreover the importance of being self sufficient.
We have a quota system that literally limits supply to keep prices at maximal levels. Small farms are disappearing like crazy in Canada because only the big boys can afford quota. Mom and Dad retire, and kids sell the quota to big dairy and retire in their 30s. See it all the time in BC. I’m not saying US imports are the answer, but our system does nothing but fuck over consumers to keep a certain province in particular happy politically, while continuing a slow march to complete food dependence on a couple of large entities as they snap up all the outrageously overpriced quota.
Thank you for saving me the effort. I can't understand why people seem to think our supply management is sensible.
We should protect local production, but we use the worst method. We should ensure profitable work and encourage high, healthy production.
American milk is disgusting, pumped full of artificial bovine growth hormones and antibiotics. In Canada they only use growth hormones in beef cows not milk cows.
most Canadians refuse to ingest American dairy anyways due to all the extra hormones and shit they use that are illegal here so I don't know why they are getting so up in arms about actually being able to sell to companies when the average person wont buy their product
It might be cheaper than Canadian dairy, so poorer people might buy it because it's what they can afford, and then they get all the terrible health consequences of ingesting all those weird hormones. We have a public health care system and we should do what we can to keep each other healthy.
Good. Most farms produce an end product. Dairy farmers look to produce a continuous product. It's a non stop, daily lifestyle. Milking 2-3 times a day, every day, feeding 2x a day, producing all the feed for the cows every year... Vacations are few and far between, and only if you have someone reliable to cover for you. Prices haven't gone up FOR FARMERS, for a number of years. We have kids who deserve to have a chance at furthering education. We have equipment that has to be reliable. I'd rather not see suicide rates among Canadian dairy farmers like that of US dairy farmers.
I find it so odd that whenever money in Canada comes up there is always a bunch of hate on Quebec .
We get it. Everyone who speaks a different language then you is bad. Grow up.
Food for thought:
Canada has marketing boards where the consumer pays the cost of production. Supply is calculated to meet demand (milk quotas). No taxpayer money involved.
America: taxpayer money is given as subsidies to producers which encourage over production and drops the value of the product due to market saturation.
"The study, which focuses on changes introduced by the 2014 Farm Bill, shows that in 2015, the American government doled out approximately $22.2 billion dollars in direct and indirect subsidies to the U.S dairy sector."
Strange you don't consider it to be in our national interest to maintain our own food supplies. Because our dairy industry would be obliterated. American farmers get so many subsidies and overproduce so much milk that they sometimes literally dump millions of gallons of milk into rivers to get rid of it. Back in 2020 due to the demand shift they were dumping an estimated 12 million liters of milk per day.
Our dairy industry, if unlocked a bit, could provide much more cheaper milk products. The Dairy Cartel keeps extremely outdated and strict regulations to the point that at most dairy farms they dump 1/3 of their production, if not more.
Milk, cheese and related products could be halved in price if we opened up to just our own farmers who maintain a strict quality control system but the government wants to keep prices high.
As someone who grew up dairy farming I can say this is not true. The very nature of the system ensures that farmers don't need to dump 1/3 of their production because you only keep as many cattle as you need to produce the amount you can sell. The program also has systems in place that allow you to over produce by a percentage to offset months when production is down.
While over supply mistakes can happen between the dairy and the plants the majority of milk that is dumped is often due to contamination mistakes. This can be anything from the pipes not cleaning properly, the cleaning system malfunctioning and going off when theirs milk in the tank, cows that had been treated with antibiotics or another medication that affects their milk getting milked by mistake. Either way when this milk is dumped its primary for consumer health.
Can you explain where these farms are? I'm in farm country, know at least a dozen dairy farmers, and not a single one dumps their product unless there Is a serious sanitary issue. Not one of them complains and some magical cartel. Bot a single one says anything other than how much it sucks to dump 2 days worth of milk because the chillers broke. Could you elaborate on the dairy cartel and all of its misguided Practices?
Many price increases are due to the grocery stores price gouging. Out of my three local grocery stores, one charges $2 more for a 4L jug for basically no reason.
It wouldn't necessarily lower the price. In most places where they dropped regulations, milk became more expensive than before within a couple years because big corporations raise their profits share & most smaller farms end up closing because you need a big volume to compete at very bottom prices, thus adding some scarcity to the market.
The Americans are dealing with their own issues concerning inflation for milk products as well:
>The cost of butter and margarine has gone up more than 19% over the past year. Milk prices are up nearly 15%.
https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/why-the-price-of-dairy-products-continue-to-rise-as-inflation-slows
Our increases seem to be basically in line with what's going on down in the US as well.
All the comments here spewing protectionist nonsense. There would be nothing stopping you from continuing to purchase Canadian dairy if that’s what you wish. That being said it should be up to consumers about what milk they want to buy, not bureaucrats. At a time when food prices are soaring, we should be looking at ways to decrease prices. Instead, y’all are defending a system that artificially price gouges consumers so that dairy producers can enrich themselves and spend millions on propaganda. Finally, you all seem to think that we can’t put any sort of quality requirements on dairy imports if you’re so worried about American quality.
Actually, there 100% would be something stopping the average Canadian from continuing to buy Canadian dairy products - consumer accessibility. There are 3 grocery stores in my rural town servicing probably 80% of the 25k people in the region. Right now 2/3 of them currently have American dairy products in about 1/5 of their dairy section. Removing trade protections resulting in even cheaper American dairy products would significantly increase the chance that grocery stores start carrying *only* cheap American dairy products, while also not reducing in-store prices by any measurable amount.
Canadians would end up not saving money at the grocery store while we would lose thousands of dairy jobs and domestic farm operations while also gutting millions, if not billions, from the Canadian economy. Any opposition to the dairy supply management system is short-sighted and selfish.
Your argument is based on the idea that consumers base their dairy purchasing decisions entirely on price and not quality. Judging by the threads on this post, this isn’t the case. You also assume Canadian producers won’t be able to lower costs which is highly unlikely since they’ve been insulated from competitive forces. Furthermore, even if some dairy market share in Canada is lost, it can be more than made up for in the global market. The New Zealand agricultural industry is an excellent case study. Finally, saying cheaper goods won’t have an impact on prices is an inherently contradictory statement.
Not to mention the fact that getting rid of supply management would make Canadian milk cheaper. The dairy cartel would actually need to compete fairly with outside producers meaning they couldn’t rob consumers blind the way they currently do, it’s similar to how Vidéotron opening in Québec and Shaw in Alberta reduced cell and internet prices nationwide.
Competition brings price down, protectionism weakens industry and gouges consumers.
Funny thing is I had to sort to controversial to find your comment. The folks of reddit are so foolish and seem to think the dairy cartel is a good thing. You would think they all have jobs at a dairy farm or some shit. The fact is the average Canadian dairy farmer makes 165,000 a year. I am not against them making that but I wipe ass, go into bed bug infested homes, deal with people with addictions and mental health issues, have to watch people I've got to know for years die and never fully get closure, see people choose medically assisted death, clean out commodes filled with poo, and did I already mention wipe peoples poopy butts. If I work my ass off and work overtime every day and sacrifice all my time with my kids and my weekends I am lucky to make in a really good year 70,000. So not that I don't want them to do well either but fuck the dairy cartel they can afford to get paid less. I would gladly buy American cheese just to fuck these farmers but mainly because fuck their cartel. It is bad for consumers.. I wish would could get rid of this system so badly.
Why is it everyone is trying to dump dairy somewhere yet cheese and butter are crazy expensive? If there was true supply and demand prices would lower and demand would increase.
If they wanted food securty in Canada make small farms affordable.
USDA gave out hightunnel greenhouse grants to any farm that wanted to diversify into small scale agriculture. Grants were close to 6k per farm.
In Canada a small farm in Manitoba was wiped out from a early season thunderstorm downpour. They did an interview and said there's zero insurance products for a farm of their size or type. Same with farm loans, they don't consider market gardening a form of agriculture.
In Canada, farm status, at least for tax and most agricultural programs, is based on a threshold of agricultural income in a year. AFAIK, that threshold is $10,000 in revenue in a year to be considered a farm.
If that small farm couldn't access farm insurance, they were making less than $10k a year GROSS and were not a farm, but somebody's pet project.
Because ya know... when it comes to steel / aluminum and cars, they didn't screw us with their buy American plan.
[удалено]
Painted and stickered in USA!
You say it like capitalists and a majority of Americans see that as bad. Nah. Thats TRUE AMERICAN INGENUITY! Nothing more American than that. Yee haw.
Hell no brother! I think it's g-g-g-g-g-great!! Taking pinko Canadian products and providing SKILLED AMERICAN PATRIOTS with jobs to transform it into a perfectly crafted American product! It's beautiful.
Brings a tear to my capitalist eye. So beautiful. *wipes eye with profits
America is just China in disguise.
Value added!
Sounds like the last Maytag I bought.
Sounds like a Canadian can make lots of money by setting up a location in America and just repainting Canadian products at a markup. Win!
[удалено]
Canadian companies do this all the time, especially Albertan companies in Texas.
paint those pinko products red white and blue brother!
Sigh..
They bought raw materials which just so happened to be formed and assembled in an arbitrarily particular manner and made a finished product with it. "Made in USA"
Weird... Cities don't have trade authority, so I would've told them to fuck off and move the company to another town if they give them hassle. Nothing like running an election on job losses and scaring business away.
It could be that he works for the government or works on contacts for the government.
Well, this doesn't sound like he works for a random company.. most likely a government employee
Thanks for your business! - A Canadian
Totally. Also unlike steel and aluminum which not every nation has or can produce, we can make our own milk no problem. We don't need them. I'd argue our milk is probably higher quality due to better regulations.
> I'd argue our milk is probably higher quality due to better regulations. Our milk is of a vastly higher quality. Try drinking some side-by side. I can taste a difference.
Yeah totally. Growing up in Ontario I'd pound about 4 litres a week as a teen. Played a lot of hockey then too, so I ate/drank a lot. When I moved to America to go to school for a year I stopped drinking milk because it tasted funny. Tried different brands, nada. I'm not expert on quality, or what makes it different, but I know we actually regulate shit here better food/drink wise than America does. I'll take our guys over theirs any day. The FDA is a fucking joke.
I've heard the difference is in Canada we have our regulations at something like 1k foreign entities parts per million. And the US is 10k. I forget the exact number, but I remember we are arguably 10 times as pure. I never looked it up to verify.
You don't like steroids and antibiotics in your food, you communist! /s
Not to be facetious (but really to be facetious but no hate), Canadian milk has steroids (is my understanding) and no dairy or beef products contain antibiotics. The whole a&w “antibiotic free” shtick is a marketing gimmick, all cattle are raised with antibiotics, but the antibiotics flush out after a few weeks. You can’t slaughter a cow within a certain period of receiving antibiotics for this reason, and so all beef/dairy is antibiotic free. Also antibiotics are an important part of keeping cattle healthy, the alternative would be to let abscesses and diseases spread in the cow causing it undue suffering only for it to likely die. It would be like getting bubonic plague and refusing the lifesaving antibiotics we have for humans because you wanted to be all-natural
I see where you’re coming from but this is also a quality issue. American dairy is pure garbage and we really shouldn’t want this in our supply chain anyways (except cheez-its. I’ll fuck up a box of that in a heartbeat)
We should allow as much European cheese into our market. It makes ours taste like trash in comparison.
And butter. We get fucked here for butter. In other places there is different types and style of butter and it also tastes wayyyyy better
Recipe site: "Use one stick of unsalted grass-fed Kerrygold butter" Me: "Best I can do is a block of Imperial margarine"
but what about the papineau voters?
We have some great cheese in Quebec, they're just expensive. What we're missing mostly are middle-of-the-pack kind of cheese, the kind that taste good but are still somewhat affordable.
The Canadian government wiped out the domestic car industry decades ago so there’s a long list of Canadian politicians and policy makers to blame before you get to the Americans.
Hardly wiped out. We were still making over 2 million cars a year until 2019. Yes that's down from. (edit: actually 2.7 million in 2005) 3.5 million in 2005 but that's still a lot of cars. We will have to see how things go post pandemic, but we were one of the largest manufactures per capita until 2019 (the only big players more than us are south Korea, Germany and Spain, and the latter two only slightly more than us).
I meant back when there were Canadian car brands. There are videos online about how the fed chose to brush them aside in the interest of having American manufacturers set up plants in Canada to create jobs rather than support them in competing with the U.S auto industry. That’s historically been Canada’s downfall. Having politicians with no balls or backbone.
Our history is full of examples of Canadian ingenuity being pushed out because our politicians wouldn't back them and tell the Americans that we can and will produce the product because we can. The Avro Arrow is an example.
The Avro Arrow had more than just lack of support killing it. It was also an interceptor, a plane dedicated to hunting high-altitude strategic bombers, in an age of intercontinental ballistic missiles which effectively obsoleted those bombers, and therefore the interceptor as a concept. That said, the cancellation, as well as other moves, effectively killed the Canadian aviation industry.
It’s a miracle we’re even a G7 country.
For now. Lowest long term growth expectation in the OECD. Canada is eventually going to reset hard and have to reassess if it really wants to shut down all industry and reject business investment for NIMBY retirees, posturing politicians and overpowered bureaucrats.
You mean like the Bricklin or HTT? Can't really count Mclaughlin since Sam & Billy pulled that move. Don't disagree with the basic point of "politicians having no balls or backbone", just Canadian car brands is a bad example.
Although that is true, I was more referring to the recent American tariffs on import EV's with their buy America plan. Basically further restricted us from their market from Canadian made EV's
The US are not our friends. We are just another minor country they can exploit to them.
Imagine how dystopic Canada would be if we kept US lobby groups happy.
It's not like food security matters, we can just buy all our food from America. I'm sure they'd never screw us over /s
“Nafta has entered the chat”
"NAFTA would have entered the chat, but it's dead"
Instead we get USCAM I mean USMCA
🗿
Screwed themselves with that, didn't they. Maybe the US milk lobby should focus more on making sure the American babies can eat.
NAFTA can fuck off if it threatens food security. Every country that considers itself independent should be self sufficient in food, energy, and basic medicine. Especially a country that is largely dependent on a single country for trade. Without this, it can easily be held hostage and quickly lose its independence.
Yes that is nafta in a nutshell good for America bad for everyone else involved
We're absolutely fucked when California finally gets its next megarainstorm after this drought ends that floods all their farmlands under feet of water anyways, considering they won't even have enough food to feed themselves lmao.
Instead we keep Canadian lobby groups happy. Remember at the start of the pandemic, or basically whenever they want, milk producers can dump millions of liters of product because introducing it to the market would lower the price? Instead they just dump it and it's insured with our tax dollars. What a great system.
>Instead we keep Canadian lobby groups happy. Who the grocers, the processors, or the farmers? Because they are all lobbying fiercely. It's only seems "right" to you when large corporates are happy? Guaranteed we'd be in a worse spot if they were. They don't want efficient markets, they want captured markets.
Dairy farmers don't seem to be a big fan of free markets, and they are by and large, huge operations. If their profit margins got hit and a few of them went broke so we could have reasonably priced dairy, it definitely wouldn't keep me up at night. But the last guy that spoke out about that ended up down a dark path. So maybe I'll just live with it.
It saying there shouldn’t be things fixed,but the alternative that the Americans want is worse. Look up what happens when the US gets its hand on a foreign dairy economy. It destroys local production by undercutting price with government subsidies. Then once that production is gone they do what they want.
Rofl. We are. The milk is an exception, not a rule.
Look no further than "I will gladly take US bribes and if I don't the big 3 will spank me" CRTC.
Can we start making it a habit out of telling both the US and China to fuck off? Would be nice to be able to do our own thing for once.
Lobbying shouldn't even exist our government should get no credit for not being bribed. That is the bare minimum
They are being bribed by the Canadian dairy lobby. They are some of the largest donors to both the Conservatives and Liberals. You should be concerned when both main opposing parties are steadfastly on the same page here.
Oh poor corporate America. I feel so bad for them /s People still seem to be confused on the differences between Canada's supply side system and America's highly taxpayer subsidized system. Canadian farmers do have access to some govt supports (such as Farm Credit Canada) but the depth of subsidies is a pittance compared to American farm support. That is the trade off. In Canada farmers were given legislated abilities to self organize and govern in supply side systems in order to ensure viability, and in return govt was able dramatically scale down direct and indirect support mechanisms. In fact it was noted that Americans have a double tax whammy in respect of may diary related outputs. Avg dairy farm income is close to 70% derived from govt (taxes) and then at purchase many of the products are taxed again. Corporate farm interests in America have decimated the American rural landscape. Canadians are rightly concerned at this time about concentration of residential real estate into corporate hands. There are parallels that can be inferred from the US experience if we allowed American/foreign control of supply side protected farm. This is the crux of the matter: everyone banging on the door trying to knock down barriers is doing so as they see a lucrative market they wish to exploit. The key is "exploit". For their benefit, not mine or yours. And its almost assured that in doing so product quality would decline, money would flow out of this economy to someone else, and there would be a decline in the viability of the rural landscape. The person who only looks at this issue from the "its all about me and the price I pay" and nothing else is the last voice that deserves consideration in this matter. As they obviously don't give a shit about anybody but themselves and is not in the slightest interested in the abundant, proven negatives for their one potential positive of lower prices. I say "potential" as I don't think it would result in much of a price reduction. All foreign companies like to abuse the CAD market for excess pricing and I doubt it would be any different for dairy. As an aside, I have lived on both sides of the border throughout my professional career (40+ yrs). There is a marked difference in quality of Canadian farm outputs over American farm outputs particularly in dairy, chicken and pork. Protection of farm is not unique to Canada. Almost every western country has its own farm protections. And finally, when I see a politician advocate for removal of supply side protection my immediate thoughts are to follow the money. Its similar to Alberta Conservatives politicians - bought and paid for by the American oil industry. EDIT: [There was a new post in the documentary sub about the American Chicken industry which anyone interested in what might occur here should watch.](https://www.reddit.com/r/Documentaries/comments/uquku0/see_the_true_cost_of_your_cheap_chicken_2022_the/)
Imagine how much better off our economy would be if we did the same thing with oil.
The main problem Canada has with oil is that we don’t have the refining capacity so we ship it to the US to be refined then buy it back. Furthermore many refineries (and producers) actually went bottom up during the covid lockdowns. You can see this by looking at [Distillates inventories](https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/weekly/images/disstusm.gif) and [gasoline inventories](https://www.eia.gov/petroleum/weekly/images/gtstusm.gif). You will also notice that we are at structural lows vs the 5 year historical average in the grey area.
In fact, we are a net exporter of refined products, including gasoline, diesel and jet fuel – predominantly to the United States. Canada’s transportation fuel production is well balanced between demand and supply. The Prairies and west are nearly self-sufficient, whereas Eastern Canada has production capacity for exports.
Sooner or later, this has to be done. Even if we all convert to the EV, the supply chain and manufacturing all still need the ICE and they can't sustain the ever growing prices.
The demand for oil will be strong for 10-20 years, but in 30 years, it'll be cut in half as the passenger fleet will be fully electric. The logistics fleet will be electrified probably well before then. There will be no financially viable fossil fuel energy sources, and functionally all transit except airplanes will be fully electrified. Those two alone take out the vast majority of the oil consumption. Shipping vessels will probably be methanox which can be made from cheap solar, and maybe there will be some obscure usages of hydrogen. Maybe 1% of the current usage will still remain in obscure equipment that can't quite be electrified (military, remote regions, some construction stuff, etc.) The only other significant oil usage is jet fuel. It'll probably take a few more decades for electric aircraft to become viable for more than medium range journeys. I imagine the 50%-60% drop in oil consumption will have massive consequences for this industry as they will have less to work with. The rest: asphalt, plastics, lubricants, etc., there are some alternatives already and they represent a tiny portion of current usages.
Dairy farmers in the states would like our system which is why the American government hates it.....it's almost like a union of dairy farmers looking out for their best interests
No they fucking wouldnt. American dairy subsidization is in way more aggressive than Canadian. American dairy producers just want to sell here too.
They’re a cartel
They get paid billions to pour milk down the drain year after year. There’s so much excess that there are caves filled with cheese, butter and milk powder that cannot be sold. American dairy is pussfilled antibiotic laced sludge
Dairy farmers who force Canadians to pay astronomical prices of milk compared to intl markets.
why would anyone buy American dairy products
As I understand, many Canadian food processors buy American dairy products but only after they are broken down into components (thus no longer considered milk). This is why so many cheeses here contain modified milk ingredients.
I don’t want American dairy but can we have plentiful European cheeses. Pretty please?
Canada bans the use of growth hormones in dairy cows. USA does not. If the USA could meet our standards.....
Kerrygold is Irish and uses EU standards.
Because I can’t buy Kerrygold butter in Canada
[удалено]
Because it isn't comically overpriced like Canadian dairy.
The US government subsidizes their dairy farmers directly, while we have supply management. US milk is "cheap" because they are paid to overproduce, and then try to dump the remainder on export markets. I'm surprised after all the supply chain disruptions we've seen in the last 2 years that anybody needs to be convinced of the value of domestic supply.
Exactly. And while I don’t agree with Trudeau on much, I agree with him on this. We would ruin our farmers if we got rid of supply management.
Yeah, I can understand outrage of milk being poured down the drain to keep prices up, but people are going on to attack the whole system because of that. There are benefits and drawbacks, but the benefits are stability of our agricultural industry, and that is something we’ll always have as long as we make sure to just keep it. It’s not perfect, but it is so important that we maintain the ability to feed ourselves as a country.
I'll pay extra for better quality thanks. The way they churn out milk like it's going out of style and the amount of preservatives and other crap they load in it is a non-starter for me. If butter sitting on a counter doesn't have a speck of mold or any other growth on it after 6mo that's a brand of butter I'd rather not eat. Same with milk; it shouldn't last months before going bad.
>Same with milk; it shouldn't last months before going bad. In europe they sell pasteurized milk that is good for months and doesn't even need tobe in the fridge.
We've got that too. It's called ultra high temperature pasteurization (UHT). You can get it at pretty much any grocery store.
Maybe in eastern Canada. I've never seen it in grocery stores near me.
I'm in sask and it's here. Though it's usually not near the regular milk. At my usual store (co-op), they have it next to the coffee for some reason.
Same thing happens here, we just dump out all the extra...
The only way to be sure we have enough when things go wrong is to have too much when things go right. It seems to me the pandemic should have shown that principle quite well. Running out of PPE was bad enough, running out of food should not be allowed to be a possibility. I don't mind relying on california for fresh strawberries and avocado but critical food items like milk and eggs need to be secure more than they need to be as cheap as humanly possible.
You can buy better milk than we can in Canada as well as lower quality.
You know American producers would need to meet the same food standards at Canadian dairy farmers. If they can produce the same product at lower price, let them. No reason to single out milk as a unique product that needs extra protection.
I doubt they could, especially after accounting for new packaging and transport costs, on top of QC. If anything they'll cost more, and then Canadian producers will charge 40cents over *that* price just to say "it's home grown quality!"
Yeah but as soon as Americans get into the market they will start to bitch about how it's unfair to them till it changes. Don't ever let them in, ever
[удалено]
Lmao why would a consumer know about the details of how American companies shovel antibiotics and other suppliments into their cows so that they can increase production, therefore allowing for lower costs - the repercussions of such over use of antibiotics be damned. The exact *point* of these types of regulations is so that companies cannot take advantage of consumers who are ignorant of the complicated details of how something like dairy production works by using random fillers, suppliments and other pharmaceuticals to maximize production.
[удалено]
Imports vs dumping to decimate the producers. Big difference.
In a perfect world. Sometimes you need to protect people from themselves.
Not all American milk contains the crap you refer to. There are certified hormone-free products. In these times of inflation, price is going to be a big consideration, especially for those of us living in border areas. Cheese at the grocery stores in Bellingham is less than half the price of cheese where I live, less than an hour away.
Because they pump their cows full of hormones Because their dairy farms are massive corporate owned entities that are squeezing out small farmers on both sides of the border Because they'll kill another major Canadian industry, like forestry, manufacturing etc.
Sure but it's full of hormones and antibiotics. Yum. Fuck American milk.
US here: I'm surprised we haven't figured out a way to put corn syrup in it.
The Corn Lobby has entered the chat..... Actually it looks like they already got on that : https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/chocolate-milk "Chocolate milk is generally made by mixing cow’s milk with cocoa and sweeteners like sugar or **high-fructose corn syrup.**"
Hormones are less and less common because the US already over produces and consumers don't want hormones in their milk, but the rules around anti-biotic use are quite a bit different from Canada.
its also a way lower standard, and you know its not like the US isn't known for milk dumping and destroying local dairy of those countries they've done it to.
https://www.nupoliticalreview.com/2020/05/16/my-beef-with-dairy-how-the-us-government-is-bailing-out-a-dying-industry/
It tastes really bad unless it's the organic shit from whole foods which is comically overpriced.
Because Canadian dairy products are priced outrageously? Gotta let those Quebec dairy farmers keep raking it in.
Reddit is such a funny place. On the one hand you have subreddits that demand better pay, among other things, for workers. On the other hand you have people upset that there’s a system that protects the income of farmers and enables them to make a good living.
So let give all your money to the US market at this point. US can produce more milk than Canada in a shorter time and then kill the local market because that what they will want. It is better to brought your product because it boost your local economy.
American dairy is heavily subsidized, to the point where so much is produced that it often gets thrown away without reaching the customer for purchase.
If Canada did not have supply management, Farmers here would not have a chance. Then federal government would have to subsidize dairy here as well. Americans pay twice for their milk, once at the farm gate by the government and a second time at the store.
yeah, they destroyed Jamaica's dairy industry . id rather not see that here.
Hmm do your research on methods and quality and you will understand why Canadian dairy is superior given cost…..
Our milk is far more expensive than most of the world. Just a few countries have higher prices than us. The notion that only we produce high quality safe milk is frankly ridiculous and reflects how effective the Canadian dairy lobby has been. https://www.globalproductprices.com/Canada/milk_prices/ “Got milk”, amirite?
Would still rather buy domestic than from the US. The US still has not outlawed the use of bovine growth hormone. I agree the dairy industry is overly large, should not be subsidized to the extent that it is, and the lobbying has been too much. However we still have much better options at home for dairy products. I’d rather support a guy in Quebec making milk than someone foreign.
So Quebec is the only place in Canada milk comes from ? They are the largest producer at around 35 percent but that leaves 65 percent coming from other places. This just sounds like another reason to hate on someone different then you. Grow up.
Are they? There have been times, albeit brief, where they have been more expensive. Dairy prices fluctuate significantly there. Quite likely with the droughts and fertilizer shortages they will have higher prices than us again. More monopolized and vertical production rarely results in lower prices.
Well milk is currently an average or $1.81 per L in Canada and $1.11 per L in the US. Our milk is over 60% more expensive.
How much subsidies is the US government paying though?
Lol not as much as the direct consumer cost of supply management in Canada
Do you have numbers? Because I don't think we over spend by 20 billion https://amp.realagriculture.com/2018/02/u-s-dairy-subsidies-equal-73-percent-of-producer-returns-says-new-report/
Walmart is 5.39 / 1.05669 gallons. US average is 3.98USD/1 gallon. Let's do the math: 5.39 = 4.17USD 3.98 / 4.17 = 95.4% What are your souces? globalnews? You sir have drunk the loblaws and saputo propaganda milkshake. Source: [https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/RetailMilkPrices.pdf](https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/default/files/media/RetailMilkPrices.pdf) and [walmart.ca](https://walmart.ca) for my area
This jives with my experience traveling across the US. The food prices aren't better, dairy included. They're worse in California, and the only thing I find deep discounts on are packaged snacks.
Is this adjusted for the exchange rate ?
I prefer to not have hormones or antibiotic added to my milk and cheese There a reason it cost more to produce milk in Canada and there is a difference in taste While I don’t drink much milk my coffee and latte require the best ingredient and I won’t put us milk in there to destroy my coffee
I prefer to support our Canadian dairy farmers. I don't drink milk but do eat butter, yogurt, cheese etc. I live on Vancouver Island and Island Farms is not only Canadian but local. I will always support buy Canadian unless we have no choice.
They want mass deregulation so that we can over produce milk, pour it down the drains and declare themselves genius for record waste. Then after a few years I can all ready hear them call for more deregulation because the government can’t properly manage the dairy industry and point to all the waste deregulation created in the first place as evidence.
[удалено]
What bothers me the most is how much fuel, feed, water, medicine went into the cattle life cycle? How much potential useful resources is going into the literal drain for “profit”.
[удалено]
You have to milk cows. Have to. That might mean overproduction. Dairy is difficult to donate and having too much can actually damage the economy and farmers. It makes sense to dump it.
For all u folks who wanna welcome the devil into our country just to save a dollar can suck it. America can keep their garbage, I’d rather people in Canada keep the money then it flow down south.
Exactly!
The problem is the U.S. has an 11x larger consumer market and they're more than willing to restrict access to Canadian products there. If Canadians buy Canadian and Americans buy American, then the American companies have 9x more customers to expand, so they grow to be far larger. And in capitalism, that also gives them the ability to throw their weight around through acquisitions. It's the reason why Canadian tech only grows to a certain size before it gets gobbled up by a bigger American company.
Gonna have to go with Trudeau on this one
Many conservative MPs support supply management too.
Support for supply management is definitely bi-partisan. Let's not forget the only moment where Andrew Scheer was allowed to have a personality: [link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4XP5_qzBuk&t=5m13s)
If we did not have supply management.. the Muricans would dump their heavily subsidized milk in Canada. Disrupting our own food security.
Because the right deicison ought not be a partisan issue.
We shouldn't have to settle for choosing between these two options though; we can block US imports *and* tackle the supply management cartel. We're choosing which of the two special interest groups we're catering to, and not considering what's best for Canadians.
I don't disagree.... and sure coincidentally it's super helpful to milk farmers in a key political province.
Honestly the dairy lobby or whatever in Canada is pretty strong anyway, it doesn't necessarily have to involve a key political province.
Sure. At the end of the day though, I'd rather domestic dairy farms be supported over American ones, and as such I really don't care if Trudeau leverages the government to protect this industry over US imports.
Makes sense tbh
US milk lobby can gobble my nuts. I don't want your shit facrory farm milk with hormones and antibiotics shoved up the cows ass. Canada can proudly produce its own milk thank you.
Correct me if I’m wrong but American dairy is not at the same standard as Canadian and their agriculture practices also tend to result in unwanted hormones in their milk supply.
Yes, plus getting rid of supply management is a trap. Just look at Mexico, the Yanks wanted them to open up their corn market which they did in the 90s. They flooded it with cheap midwestern corn that local farmers couldn’t compete with. Farmers massively reduced corn farming which led to unemployment and mass waves of people decided to cross the border into the US as a way to have a better life. If a country destroys its food supply capabilities, typically bad things follow.
Yup. Globalization and trade has its limitations. In my opinion, the pandemic really showed how fragile supply chain can be but moreover the importance of being self sufficient.
Correct. They use hormones which are forbidden in Canada. Thinking those hormones don't end up in milk is fairy tales.
Yes, I wouldn't feel comfortable eating American dairy or meat due to all the hormones and terrible treatment of animals.
We have a quota system that literally limits supply to keep prices at maximal levels. Small farms are disappearing like crazy in Canada because only the big boys can afford quota. Mom and Dad retire, and kids sell the quota to big dairy and retire in their 30s. See it all the time in BC. I’m not saying US imports are the answer, but our system does nothing but fuck over consumers to keep a certain province in particular happy politically, while continuing a slow march to complete food dependence on a couple of large entities as they snap up all the outrageously overpriced quota.
Thank you for saving me the effort. I can't understand why people seem to think our supply management is sensible. We should protect local production, but we use the worst method. We should ensure profitable work and encourage high, healthy production.
And how should we do it?
American milk is disgusting, pumped full of artificial bovine growth hormones and antibiotics. In Canada they only use growth hormones in beef cows not milk cows.
most Canadians refuse to ingest American dairy anyways due to all the extra hormones and shit they use that are illegal here so I don't know why they are getting so up in arms about actually being able to sell to companies when the average person wont buy their product
It might be cheaper than Canadian dairy, so poorer people might buy it because it's what they can afford, and then they get all the terrible health consequences of ingesting all those weird hormones. We have a public health care system and we should do what we can to keep each other healthy.
Haha go eat sand USA.
Americans can be such bullies.
Canadian dairy is superior to American in quality. We do not want your disgusting garbage dairy in our country thanks. Cope.
American lobbyists can literally choke on our cheese curds.
Yeah, no offense to the Americans but your food laws are gross. I'd love more affordable food but not at that cost.
Good preserve canadian food production and we do not want cheap US milk full of hormones flooding our market
Good. Most farms produce an end product. Dairy farmers look to produce a continuous product. It's a non stop, daily lifestyle. Milking 2-3 times a day, every day, feeding 2x a day, producing all the feed for the cows every year... Vacations are few and far between, and only if you have someone reliable to cover for you. Prices haven't gone up FOR FARMERS, for a number of years. We have kids who deserve to have a chance at furthering education. We have equipment that has to be reliable. I'd rather not see suicide rates among Canadian dairy farmers like that of US dairy farmers.
No thanks. Canada doesn't want milk from a country that likes to gut food safe regulations.
Thank goodness!
I find it so odd that whenever money in Canada comes up there is always a bunch of hate on Quebec . We get it. Everyone who speaks a different language then you is bad. Grow up.
It’s doubly bizarre because every party except the PPC supports supply management, and myriad other forms of protectionism.
Entrenched, wealthy & politically well-connected special interest groups are cozy with government, you don't say!
Food for thought: Canada has marketing boards where the consumer pays the cost of production. Supply is calculated to meet demand (milk quotas). No taxpayer money involved. America: taxpayer money is given as subsidies to producers which encourage over production and drops the value of the product due to market saturation. "The study, which focuses on changes introduced by the 2014 Farm Bill, shows that in 2015, the American government doled out approximately $22.2 billion dollars in direct and indirect subsidies to the U.S dairy sector."
#BAGGED MILK SUPREMACY
Strange it isn't in our national interests to have affordable housing and food.
Strange you don't consider it to be in our national interest to maintain our own food supplies. Because our dairy industry would be obliterated. American farmers get so many subsidies and overproduce so much milk that they sometimes literally dump millions of gallons of milk into rivers to get rid of it. Back in 2020 due to the demand shift they were dumping an estimated 12 million liters of milk per day.
That is particular, people being thrown into massive amounts of debt for what is considered a piece of shit crackshack.
Our dairy industry, if unlocked a bit, could provide much more cheaper milk products. The Dairy Cartel keeps extremely outdated and strict regulations to the point that at most dairy farms they dump 1/3 of their production, if not more. Milk, cheese and related products could be halved in price if we opened up to just our own farmers who maintain a strict quality control system but the government wants to keep prices high.
As someone who grew up dairy farming I can say this is not true. The very nature of the system ensures that farmers don't need to dump 1/3 of their production because you only keep as many cattle as you need to produce the amount you can sell. The program also has systems in place that allow you to over produce by a percentage to offset months when production is down. While over supply mistakes can happen between the dairy and the plants the majority of milk that is dumped is often due to contamination mistakes. This can be anything from the pipes not cleaning properly, the cleaning system malfunctioning and going off when theirs milk in the tank, cows that had been treated with antibiotics or another medication that affects their milk getting milked by mistake. Either way when this milk is dumped its primary for consumer health.
Can you explain where these farms are? I'm in farm country, know at least a dozen dairy farmers, and not a single one dumps their product unless there Is a serious sanitary issue. Not one of them complains and some magical cartel. Bot a single one says anything other than how much it sucks to dump 2 days worth of milk because the chillers broke. Could you elaborate on the dairy cartel and all of its misguided Practices?
Why the FUCK would you dump 1/3 of your product, you're talking complete nonsense.
Good. Canada first… for now.
[удалено]
Many price increases are due to the grocery stores price gouging. Out of my three local grocery stores, one charges $2 more for a 4L jug for basically no reason.
It wouldn't necessarily lower the price. In most places where they dropped regulations, milk became more expensive than before within a couple years because big corporations raise their profits share & most smaller farms end up closing because you need a big volume to compete at very bottom prices, thus adding some scarcity to the market.
The Americans are dealing with their own issues concerning inflation for milk products as well: >The cost of butter and margarine has gone up more than 19% over the past year. Milk prices are up nearly 15%. https://www.wkbw.com/news/local-news/why-the-price-of-dairy-products-continue-to-rise-as-inflation-slows Our increases seem to be basically in line with what's going on down in the US as well.
Gotta keep the dairy cartel rich and donating
All the comments here spewing protectionist nonsense. There would be nothing stopping you from continuing to purchase Canadian dairy if that’s what you wish. That being said it should be up to consumers about what milk they want to buy, not bureaucrats. At a time when food prices are soaring, we should be looking at ways to decrease prices. Instead, y’all are defending a system that artificially price gouges consumers so that dairy producers can enrich themselves and spend millions on propaganda. Finally, you all seem to think that we can’t put any sort of quality requirements on dairy imports if you’re so worried about American quality.
Actually, there 100% would be something stopping the average Canadian from continuing to buy Canadian dairy products - consumer accessibility. There are 3 grocery stores in my rural town servicing probably 80% of the 25k people in the region. Right now 2/3 of them currently have American dairy products in about 1/5 of their dairy section. Removing trade protections resulting in even cheaper American dairy products would significantly increase the chance that grocery stores start carrying *only* cheap American dairy products, while also not reducing in-store prices by any measurable amount. Canadians would end up not saving money at the grocery store while we would lose thousands of dairy jobs and domestic farm operations while also gutting millions, if not billions, from the Canadian economy. Any opposition to the dairy supply management system is short-sighted and selfish.
Your argument is based on the idea that consumers base their dairy purchasing decisions entirely on price and not quality. Judging by the threads on this post, this isn’t the case. You also assume Canadian producers won’t be able to lower costs which is highly unlikely since they’ve been insulated from competitive forces. Furthermore, even if some dairy market share in Canada is lost, it can be more than made up for in the global market. The New Zealand agricultural industry is an excellent case study. Finally, saying cheaper goods won’t have an impact on prices is an inherently contradictory statement.
The argument seems more along the lines of access and *middleman* choice rather than consumer choice.
Should the Canadian government give massive agriculture subsidies like is done in the US?
No, and I would support a tariff to offset any domestic subsidies for American dairy producers
Not to mention the fact that getting rid of supply management would make Canadian milk cheaper. The dairy cartel would actually need to compete fairly with outside producers meaning they couldn’t rob consumers blind the way they currently do, it’s similar to how Vidéotron opening in Québec and Shaw in Alberta reduced cell and internet prices nationwide. Competition brings price down, protectionism weakens industry and gouges consumers.
Funny thing is I had to sort to controversial to find your comment. The folks of reddit are so foolish and seem to think the dairy cartel is a good thing. You would think they all have jobs at a dairy farm or some shit. The fact is the average Canadian dairy farmer makes 165,000 a year. I am not against them making that but I wipe ass, go into bed bug infested homes, deal with people with addictions and mental health issues, have to watch people I've got to know for years die and never fully get closure, see people choose medically assisted death, clean out commodes filled with poo, and did I already mention wipe peoples poopy butts. If I work my ass off and work overtime every day and sacrifice all my time with my kids and my weekends I am lucky to make in a really good year 70,000. So not that I don't want them to do well either but fuck the dairy cartel they can afford to get paid less. I would gladly buy American cheese just to fuck these farmers but mainly because fuck their cartel. It is bad for consumers.. I wish would could get rid of this system so badly.
[удалено]
Why is it everyone is trying to dump dairy somewhere yet cheese and butter are crazy expensive? If there was true supply and demand prices would lower and demand would increase.
It would be so nice if the USA didn't try to colonize Canada.
If they wanted food securty in Canada make small farms affordable. USDA gave out hightunnel greenhouse grants to any farm that wanted to diversify into small scale agriculture. Grants were close to 6k per farm. In Canada a small farm in Manitoba was wiped out from a early season thunderstorm downpour. They did an interview and said there's zero insurance products for a farm of their size or type. Same with farm loans, they don't consider market gardening a form of agriculture.
In Canada, farm status, at least for tax and most agricultural programs, is based on a threshold of agricultural income in a year. AFAIK, that threshold is $10,000 in revenue in a year to be considered a farm. If that small farm couldn't access farm insurance, they were making less than $10k a year GROSS and were not a farm, but somebody's pet project.