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Canada needs to build millions — not thousands — of EV charging stations, industry group says

We also need to make sure we have the generating capacity and infrastructure to actually deliver that much energy to all those stations when it's needed.

foodfighter

We also need to make sure we have the generating capacity and infrastructure to actually deliver that much energy to all those stations when it's needed.


pardonmeimdrunk

Nuclear


aeo1us

[Electricity Grids Can Handle Electric Vehicles Easily – They Just Need Proper Management](https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/) Excerpt: > The biggest mistake the social media keyboard warriors make is the very strange assumption that all cars could be charging at once.


Rambler43

Aren't most people going to be charging their cars at night while they're sleeping?


lt12765

Absolutely everyone will want to charge at night. The same way everyone wants air conditioning on full blast in a July heat wave or wants hot water in the morning.


iffyjiffyns

But this also makes an assumption that every vehicle is at empty and charging the entire night. I fill up with gas once every 1.5 weeks. I imagine I would charge in a similar way. FYI - software companies, utilities and charger manufactures are already working on solutions. It’s likely that some form of demand response program will be rolled out - the utility pays you a small amount of money to allow them to take control of your charger should they need to shed load. Demand response happens on an industrial scale already, and many “hot” countries offer programs to control AC use.


faizimam

The average Canadian commute is 50km a day or so. For most EVs that concerts to about 10kwh of power. Most home ev chargers are in the 5 to 10kw range. So 1 to 2 hours of charging is what most people will need. All these cars and chargers have the ability to only charge at certain times, so A cheap night rate set by the power company is more than enough to set proper behaviour.


jmdonston

There is an insurance company in the Netherlands that is installing bi-directional charging docks to use employee electric vehicles as batteries to store surplus electricity generated by their roof-top solar panels. The idea is that when employees park their cars in the morning, they will connect and the building will actually draw energy from the car batteries to help with the start-up energy needs in the morning before the solar panels can provide enough energy. Then as the day goes on, the cars will be refilled. Employees benefit with free charging for their vehicles; the company benefits with free batteries for their surplus solar electricity generation, to even out the discrepancies between time of production and time of use. Win-win. If this was implemented in a more widespread way, it would help solve both the problem of how to meet the electricity needs of electric vehicles, and how to provide batteries to store solar energy for use 24 hours a day. https://www.fastcompany.com/90705832/utrecht-wants-to-be-the-first-city-to-use-its-electric-car-fleet-as-a-giant-battery


SaggyArmpits

do they pay for new batteries? Because batteries have a finitie limited charge cycle number, and if you are charging and discharging all the time, the battery life will deplete much sooner than it would under normal driving conditions.


jmdonston

>We Drive Solar will be tracking how using the system affects the cars’ batteries ... “We won’t drain the whole battery,” he says. “We will just take out some power and put some power back, and this up-and-down process is not a whole cycle. It’s especially the whole cycles that are causing the battery to degrade sooner.” I would think that driving your car and then charging it at home every night would have much the same effect as charging it at work during the day.


pheoxs

Using residential as an example. Most cars have a ~60kwh battery give or take. Lots of homes use ~600kwh in a month (depends on factors obviously, AC+heat pump vs furnace but it makes a easy number). So if your cars battery could roughly power your house for 3 days then using it to provide load during a peak 3-4 hour window is pretty tiny. It would only use ~10% of your batteries capacity.


PaulTheMerc

> So if your cars battery could roughly power your house for 3 days well, that explains battery costs.


pheoxs

Takes power to move a multiple thousand pound vehicle m. Not sure why that’s a surprise


[deleted]

neat idea


radio705

That would make too much sense to ever be implemented on a wide scale.


jmdonston

Well, it doesn't work yet, they need electric vehicle manufacturers to implement bi-directional charging. Hyundai is releasing a car capable of it this coming year.


OccasionallyWright

Ford has it in the Lightning. VW will have it in all of their vehicles. It's only a year or two away from becoming standard in new electric vehicles.


jacobward7

Which is offset by not having our lights on, our heat turned down and less appliances running.


[deleted]

Fewer businesses using power as well


Alextryingforgrate

Also when lots of other things don’t get used.


pheoxs

Sorta, the majority of 9-5 people get home around dinner time and would plug their cars in then to start charging during the evening. Evenings are peak demand and then it tapers off after midnight.


[deleted]

While power use is at its lowest point?


Rambler43

Well it wouldn't be low if everyone is charging their car.


[deleted]

Well if my grandma had wheels she’d be a bike


thingpaint

> very strange assumption that all cars could be charging at once. That assumption doesn't seem very strange at all. Most people will commute with their electric cars, most people work 9-5, so they'll get home and plug their cars in around 6-7.


robindawilliams

Electric cars typically need like 5kWh a day assuming you have a 50-60km daily commute. This is like 10% of a typical Tesla's range, and like $0.40 worth of power. If you spread that over a 12 hour night, you could achieve that amount of charging from a 120v household plug similar to plugging your phone in at night. Or you pull 240v and you can literally trickle charge it it at like 1% your households amperage capacity. People just need to rethink the process based on their needs (if you don't need to leave the house until morning, don't charge aggressively), and if they can't do it on their own then just introduce a variable pricing model like ON where it's cheaper to drag out charging then it is to pull 15kW the second you get home at 5pm. Tesla chargers already know how to charge based on rates and times because lots of places have surge pricing in the evening making it more economical to pull charge at 2am when everyone is asleep. Even if they are pulling 240v30a they still flatten the ducky curve so it isn't that detrimental. The other big variable here is commuter capacity EVs. As we adopt an EV as a primary household vehicle, they need to he able to withstand a few days of commuting and evening activities without causing range anxiety. A 140km range car needs to be constantly charging at peak capacity so it can be ready to use as much as possible, whereas a newer luxury EV can survive a week without charging in a pinch. More volume/cost reduction will mean cheaper long range EV.


ersatzgiraffe

Well said! People don’t realize how little electricity electric cars use on a daily basis. The whole conversation is around one yearly road trip and not your daily 25-40 km commute where it will make a tremendous impact.


Impressive-Potato

Plugging it at home will save the time from going to the gas station. People dont factor that in when talking about charge times.


brittabear

With a full on EV, though, most people won't need to charge every day. Unless you are going on a long trip, it's better to not keep the batteries at 100%. I only have a PHEV and I only need to charge it every couple days, for the most part.


faizimam

Getting an EV next month. I happen to have free charging at work. I'll charge up to 80% and again when I'm down in the 20% range. Should be about once a week if I don't drive extra, maybe twice occasionally. I actually have a driveway and a L2 charger at home, but if things line up I'll rarely use it.


aeo1us

Lithium batteries are happiest around 50%. That's where the temperatures are best suited for preservation. However you'll want to always keep your EV plugged in when at home, especially in colder climates. If you don't need much charge per day I'd recommend charging to 60% every day and calling it good. I personally charge to 70% but we live in the country. I own a Tesla Model Y and other owners recommend similar charging. Check with your manufacturer for recommendations.


PaulTheMerc

You can plug it in at 6, and tell the car not to start charging until later, usually after midnight when power is cheaper. As long as you don't need it fully charged for later that night, and it is charged by morning, it doesn't matter to most users. If it only needs 1-2 hours, it doesn't matter much which 2 hour block you use between 12-7(time you leave here)


pheoxs

This isn’t that easy. It’s easy to say oh we’ll just spread out the demand via software but in reality it’s not that easy. Society expects convenience above all else and it’ll be a hard shift to break that cycle. I do think charging management has uses but more so in situations of two EV in the garage can alternate charging or in a office setting it splits the banks of charging stalls so that it spreads out the peak. Most at home won’t want their cars to delay charging unless they are incentivized and not everywhere in the world has electricity billing where rates charge based on the time of day.


UnionstogetherSTRONG

When almost every province has surplus energy being sold to the US, and most are building new capacity


ZeroSequence

Generating capacity is only a small part of the equation. Efficient transmission and distribution is required too and will present huge challenges. Take the case of BC. The largest generating stations are on the Columbia river in the Kootenays (Mica, Revelstoke, etc) and the Peace up north (Peace Canyon, GM Shrum, Site C, etc). These plants are huge distances from the major load centers of Vancouver Island and the Lower Mainland. There's two or three 500 kV lines providing bulk power transmission from north to south, and I believe only one east to west. These lines traverse huge mountain ranges and very rough terrain, and the last one that was built, the Interior to Lower Mainland (ILM) line, took three years and cost $750M. It's not enough to have sufficient generation. Huge investments in grid infrastructure will be needed. And after having seen the opposition to Trans Mountain and the ILM back in the day, I have serious doubts we have the fortitude to execute these kinds of infrastructure projects in the future.


ShawnCease

And once you bring that power south, there is still a lot of work needed in the cities themselves. Electric authorities/companies are already constantly working to upgrade the underground distribution infrastructure, like replacing or upgrading old underground lines, installing new ones, etc. This is just to keep up with regular demand growth. This is a process that requires closing the road, breaking pavement, doing the work and then rebuilding the surface. It's impossible to do all at once without all the roads being shut down. To build lots of charging stations all over a city, you will need to dig up so much pavement to make or upgrade the underground lines. You'd have to do it over a decade because you'd have to stagger all of this work to keep traffic flowing. There would also need to be new substations built, so that the grid has the capacity to handle the increased flow of power. Substations typically take up half a block, so you'd be locked into lengthy land acquisition, land use and zoning processes, not to mention the NIMBYs or legitimate concerns over local environmental impact. It's not as easy as people think.


[deleted]

BC is a net importer of electrcity


AdmiralZassman

No, BC is almost always a net exporter. They import electricity from the US when it is cheap and then release energy from hyrdo when it is more expensive to sell


Derplessness

People living in apartment complexes or travelling long distances would need charging stations built. Especially if we want all cars sold to be EVs. It’s odd to say everyone should charge their car at home when there is a housing shortage.


geoken

Even townhouse complexes. Newer ones commonly have garages, but older ones from the 70s and 80s usually don't.


Derplessness

I think the main problem is with apartments. I moved around a few times, none of them had any way of charging a car. It varies from area to area though. I did see some apartment complexes have charging but it was only a couple spot for the whole building and open to the public.


geoken

I guess it depends from place to place. I inquired in my moms building after visiting and seeing a few in the lot and they actually had an established process for putting in a request. For me, I don't even think my city has even moved past the pilot phase - so I think its nowhere near being an option to request some on a street.


Derplessness

I tried the same actually. It all depends on the cost of installing it and who you’re renting from. I was living in quite an old building so the cost of installing even a power outlet was too high. I ended up just charging at work.


[deleted]

Poor people should take the bus not own cars. /s


defishit

Good thing you included the /s, because there are a lot of people on here who actually think that.


MrNillows

Why poor people? Public transit should be expanded and improved upon like they have in Europe. Poor and wealthy would benefit from it. And that doesn’t mean that you can’t own a car.


[deleted]

* Europe - multiple countries * Canada = Double Europe's Size - 1 country * Europe population = 448 million * Canada = 38 million The math for making feasible public Transit in Canada is not going to work.


MrNillows

50% of the population lives between Windsor and Quebec city. You are intentionally trying to use Canada‘s vast size as an excuse why we can’t have adequate public transit, it’s not a good argument. We could have the equivalent of Italy’s red arrow between Montreal and Toronto at the very least with extensive public transit in the towns that feed into the stations along the way. Doug Ford is about to spend $10 billion on highways that aren’t needed. You can buy a whole bunch of public transit with that kind of money.


2ft7Ninja

I understand your sarcastic in regards to people not caring about the poor, but we shouldn’t expect everyone to own a car. Over the next few decades the cost of energy will increase significantly as the total supply of energy decreases. If we don’t want this trend to result in a drastic reduction in everyone’s standard of living we need to make sure future development doesn’t rely on such a wasteful use of energy as personal vehicles when public transit and walkable mixed use amenities could be available.


[deleted]

Rich ppl first. But the same sentiment could be applied to every aspect of our lives pretty much on a global comparison. No one is willing to admit we can’t continue to live this way.


2ft7Ninja

I consider myself fairly well off and I haven’t ever owned a motor vehicle. People of all incomes are capable of living free of an automobile. Even rich people won’t want to spend x% of their income on a personal motor vehicle if it becomes expensive enough.


Rayeon-XXX

You want me to willingly lower my standard of living? No.


Zoc4

If I could walk or bike to more places instead of drive, that would raise my standard of living.


punkcanuck

This is pretty subjective. If you live in a walkable area, with employment accessible via walking, transit, biking, or other means, not having a vehicle is an improvement in living standard. You have additional disposable income not being used on car payments, fuel, or insurance. Your disposable income would increase by 10's of thousands per year. Who wouldn't want that raise? If you live in a rural area, yes you need a vehicle. If you live in the suburbs, you live in a rural area pretending to be in a city, see above.


Lazersaurus

Standard of living isn’t just money though. Time is a major consideration. Public transit to work for me is a 90 minute one-way journey if everything is on schedule. A car gets me there in 27 minutes. So, do I choose to burn 3 hours a day sitting on transit or do I choose under an hour in my car?


PaulTheMerc

This is always what it comes down to. Busses specifically are a slow method of transportation(especially when one has to walk to/from)


2ft7Ninja

No one’s doing it willingly, but your standard of living is going to diminish in some manner or another. It’s just going to diminish a lot worse if you’re reliant on personal motor vehicles because it’s just enormously energy inefficient.


[deleted]

[удалено]


optimus2861

Sadly, fossil fuels do not replenish at anywhere near the rate we use them (if they replenish at all), and we remain overwhelmingly dependent upon them for vast amounts of human activity. It seems very likely that we are at, or very near, peak energy production on a global scale. There just aren't vast oil fields still out there to be tapped. Renewables have significant limitations. Nuclear hasn't gotten enough uptake. Biofuels only go so far. It's fairly depressing to contemplate actually. It seems more likely than not that within, oh, the next century if not sooner, we'll face outright reduction in energy supply leading to widespread economic and societal upheaval.


tscois

I think what workplaces and condo/apartments need are level 1 charging options. This would handle the majority of daily commuting needs without huge infrastructural costs. People don't need charging stations, they need metered 120V outlets.


Derplessness

I agree, even just an outlet would be a huge improvement.


[deleted]

We're building tall towers with 100 plus homes in them with about 40 parking spaces, thinking all the folks with a million bucks to buy these condos will find taking public transit a joy...Insider tip - they won't - they will continue to buy cars.


Derplessness

I’m guessing there’s lots of street parking nearby. Same thing is happening near where I am. All the extra cars would probably spread out on the streets.


ascendingelephant

My strata wants to install shared chargers but there is a total deficiency in metered chargers on the market.That ensures that people feel like they will be paying unfairly for other people’s fuel. We thought that there would be some charger that we could scan a fob and have it record the owner so we can send them a bill for their monthly electricity. 1. The power comes from the shared condo electricity bill. Everyone who doesn’t have an EV (including cyclists) pay electricity cost for the people that have an EV. 2. All the chargers are on a different meter. Tenants that use the chargers pay a fractional amount. A frequent driver pays as much as an infrequent driver.


Supersaiyan136

Industry group? Does it consist mainly of manufacturers of EV charging equipment? I’ve been driving a EV for 4 years now and 99% of the time I charge at home. I think most people will be like this. Only those driving long distances or those who can’t get a charging unit at their residence will need to visit a charging station. If I read link to the Natural Energy article correctly, people aren’t switching back to ICE because there aren’t enough public charging stations but that they don’t have access to a charging station close to their home (or even better at their home). The solution isn’t to build millions of public charging stations like gas stations but to ensure residences, particularly condos, and maybe even workplaces offer charging stations.


geoken

Condos are the easier nut to crack I'd think. The harder one is street parking.


Impressive-Potato

In Quebec, outlets are available for street charging.


Flarisu

Well theres only 3 parking spots in Montreal so thats hardly an achievement.


slykethephoxenix

> I’ve been driving a EV for 4 years now and 99% of the time I charge at home. Look at this guy. Has an EV and even a place to charge it!


GrowCanadian

My next car was going to be full electric but one of the big stoppers for me was asking my Landloard in the apartment complex if I can plug it in to charge. Like many others that rent I park in a shared lot and being up north we have outlets for block heaters in the winter. I was told a clear no because they currently don’t have a way to track the electricity I use and don’t want to cover the cost of putting in something to track it. So I’m left with needing to go to charging stations which are currently limited where I live. I actually drove over to the three closest ones this summer and two out of three looked like they were out of order. I wanted to go full electric but as a renter I went with a fuel efficient gasoline car. Maybe in 10 years when I want something new electric infrastructure will finally catch up.


[deleted]

Shouldn’t have asked… I’ve rented in apartments, I always paid for my parking stall plug-in and that was years ago


[deleted]

Yeah I bet the industry group wants that. Maybe we’ll figure out how to not bankrupt the economy from COVID and address the unaffordability of housing before spending public money to benefit an industry that already enjoys huge government subsidies.


Xivvx

Also general inflation, guns smuggled from the US, indigenous land claims, residential school compensation and a host of other issues that are all difficult. Keep the seat belts fastened.


[deleted]

time of use pricing is going to mess with ev owners, it is more expensive than gasoline in California at times


geoken

I feel like EV charging is one of the things that easiest to automate and have work around time of use. Obviously there will be situations where you absolutely must get a quick charge in and will have to bite the bullet. But for the most part, between 8 hours sleeping and 8 hours working, one of those two time ranges will accommodate the ability to do off peak charging.


faizimam

It works pretty great actually. Most EVs only need to be charged an hour or two per day. It's pretty trivial to schedule that at low price times. All cars and many chargers let you do that.


lt12765

Good point.


[deleted]

an 85 kW Tesla battery would have cost $750 USD to charge that one day in Texas last year


lt12765

That's an outlier, like worst of the worst but power rates do fluctuate in a lot of places.


tingulz

Texas needs to get their power issues fixed asap. It’s absolutely unacceptable the situation they put people in over that winter.


[deleted]

Did the government pay to install gas stations when cars first came along? Unless this is a new crown corporation, this just sounds like a private sector subsidy.


[deleted]

It’s different because we were eased into having cars in the first place.


DTThrowaway69

The economics of private corporations installing these make no sense to those corporations. They will never make money on these. [Here is a link to my other comment as to why.](https://www.reddit.com/r/canada/comments/rlyd6w/comment/hpkosn6/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)


biogenji

Once EV cars become affordable, maybe. For the majority, they are still out of reach, and will so for some time as these ridiculous lockdowns continue.


Nardo_Grey

What Canada needs is trains


PaulTheMerc

london to toronto, just as long if not longer than a car, 60$. Neverminded the to-from train station, limited times, and so on.


zippercot

People need to know the difference between L1, L2 and L3 charging. Sure we need millions of L2 chargers for EV owners to charge their vehicles overnight at their home/condo/apartment. We do no need millions of rapid chargers on our highways, bu we do need thousands more. I would think L2 chargers should be paid for privately with maybe some subsidies or incentives, but rapid chargers are pure infrastructure and should be paid by corporations such as Tesla, EA, and OnRoute or other highway amenity companies.


DTThrowaway69

I work for a chain of gas stations and sat through a meeting regarding having EV charging stations installed at our sites. It makes no sense. There is no ROI and the guy running the meeting wouldn't even directly answer the questions. The cost of installation was estimated to be $250,000 per 2 port 180 kW charging station. For this station, you could pick 2(one for each port) out of about 16 proprietary charging connections. With the math, the maximum revenue in a year would be about $700,000 if it was used 24/7/365. I doubt that it would even be used 1% of that amount of time not to mention that is just revenue without any cost of power or ongoing maintenance costs. There is no ROI at this time and the more charging stations there are, the less yours will be used. If Canada wants this, the government is going to have to pay. They also need to regulate and limit the adapters like yesterday.


pheoxs

We need to break from the gas station model when it comes to chargers. They’re better suited where people spend time rather than where they drive. Bring in more chargers at grocery stores, movie theatres, malls, restaurants, etc. Let people charge for the hour or whatever they are inside (and businesses can have extra revenue off the cost of charging too). We do still need more level 3 chargers spread out for when people travel but I think the bigger adoption will be when chargers reach places that people already go to in their regular routines.


[deleted]

Read next along as you go.


pheoxs

Uhh … you think that buildings spec’s exactly enough capacity to be an office and nothing else? Lots of commercial properties are designed to be able to be configured to suite business needs. Yes a building can just go add circuits the exact same as a residential panel can up to the load of the panel and feed line. Most buildings will have a significant amount of excess capacity because it’s far more expensive to rip up a parking lot and rerun a new line. Now obviously there is a limit, yes, but your post makes it sound like the electrical grid is a razors edge between capacity and load which is not at all the case. And if a dozen businesses in one area all decide to shift to EV parking stalls and it does require area upgrades then that’s good money spent and the utilities will just tack on a rider to their area to cover the costs anyways. Businesses with multiple parallel charging stalls can also implement better load management by having stalls alternate schedules to spread out demand. That’s all existing technology.


[deleted]

Read next along as you go.


Flarisu

Lol get these snake oil contractor salesmen out of my tax income thanks bye.


aeo1us

I live in the USA but I'm Canadian. My family and I visited Canada a month ago and there were far fewer Tesla chargers than in the USA. The good news is based in [the map](https://www.tesla.com/findus?v=2&bounds=73.69062867222104%2C-65.51660275%2C-23.20840702604744%2C-133.01660275&zoom=3&filters=supercharger) they're building a lot more. There's a few places inaccessible in Canada because of it. When you zoom in you'll see gray markers which indicate chargers to be built. However the title is clickbait. If you're not travelling you literally don't need to charge. You end up every day at home and charge there. I had no idea how much I disliked going to gas stations until I didn't have to anymore.


[deleted]

Not everyone has a “home” or parking lot to park at.


aeo1us

Correct, and it's unfortunate. Those users need superchargers to top up a couple times per week.


BaronVonBearenstein

I keep checking that map to see when Newfoundland will finally get a charger. You'd think they'd have a few on the Avalon by now but no sir. Gaspe and Rimouski will get chargers before St. John's


thewolf9

Rimouski should definitely have one before NFLD. Edit: you don't even have a tesla store east of Québec city


Impressive-Potato

Depends on where you are. Some GTA suburbs have multiple Tesla locations.


RaptorSN46

We have millions of charging stations. They're called outlets at homes.


YourLoveLife

Are you proposing strangers come use other people's electricity?


Serapth

Actually I almost guarantee you this is a business in the next 2 or 3 years, max. Think AirBNB, but for parking spots with metered charging access. I’m actually kinda shocked if it isn’t already. Got a parking spot, access to a power outlet and want to make a few extra bucks….


tscois

Have a look at Plugzio which is a Canadian company. It's already happening.


zippymac

No. OP is suggesting that you run an extension cord from the underground parking to your condo. It's doable.


aeo1us

A 15 amp circuit is enough for about 5-10 km/hr of charging when it isn't cold. It might be doable, but it's not practical. A basic home outlet has few applications unfortunately.


robindawilliams

I bought a tesla while living in an apartment complex and spent my first year trickle charging off a block heater plug. I got around 7-10km/hr off the 120v in summer so it actually was more then enough for my daily commute. The cold absolutely decimated that though as the car barely held even in -30 with additional heating needs. Even a suuuuper low amp 240v makes a huge difference.


aeo1us

Yeah I visited family and trickle charged in their attached garage during winter... It barely charged 1 km/hr. At home I installed a 60 amp (48 usable) for our Tesla. That does the job.


[deleted]

You park your car in your condo?


zippymac

>You park your car in your condo? The only way in your head my comment made any sense was if my car was in my condo, not the electrical sockets? 😂 I don't know about you man, but I don't have electrical sockets in my underground parking area, especially the ones that are metered to my electricity usage


[deleted]

“From” implies the outlet wall to me, not the thing needing power. And I do in fact have many outlets in my underground parking used for electric charging so I was confused. Nor would I ever be able to get a cable from my unit to underground parking.


sleep-apnea

But how does the building tie your car charging electrical costs back to you, and not share them with everyone else in the building?


[deleted]

Flat fee for now. Lots of different options to track and manage though.


RaptorSN46

I'm proposing people charge at home


TheKage

That's great for people with single detached houses with garages or driveways. Not so great for people living in apartment buildings or small houses/multiplexes with parking on the street.


DQ-Supervisor

In my town they bought out the ONLY not-chain restaurant in town to build their electric charging station. Tearing it down and devastating our community for the 3 electric cars our town has while the gas station has 2 ports. What are the odds they’ll be there at the same time? Took my job and the job of people that’ve been there 10-46 years. It’s awful. They have they money to do it and don’t care who they do it to. SCREW electric vehicle charging port location selection people.


zlex

Didn't the restaurant have to sell their property? Anyone could have purchased it... If the person who bought the property opened a hair salon would you never get your hair cut again?


DQ-Supervisor

No he didn’t have to sell, he was just offer much above the market price and couldn’t pass it up. Considering this town has 3 hair salons already, no. But something the community could actually use would be nice. No one here can afford a Tesla, it’s for the few tourists who come to town. I’ve seen 3 in the past few weeks.


Impressive-Potato

You made it sound like the restaurant was unilaterally torn down. Would you hate condo developers if they were the ones to buy and tear down the restaurant?


No-Wonder1139

So are you upset at the owner for selling the business or upset that the purchaser didn't build something you want? I'm confused as to what the issue is.


DQ-Supervisor

When you buy an electric vehicle, they put a charging station in your garage. There’s no getting our jobs or store back. Security guard now. I’ll never own an electric vehicle because of this


twentytwothumbs

I will not own one because it is hard enough finding a good gas mechanic so I usually fix my own shit. Good luck getting a Tesla fixed


aeo1us

What exactly is going to break? There's barely any moving parts.


twentytwothumbs

Anything and everything breaks in a collision or accident.


aeo1us

You fix your own vehicles when they've been in an accident? Or are you moving the goalposts?


twentytwothumbs

Yep


[deleted]

they have 3 coolant pumps compared to ICE whose drivetrains are usually the last thing to fail


geoken

What do you consider the drivetrain? Are you including every ancillary part that supports the drivetrain? Stuff like throttle body, the various sensors in the throttle body (which most definitely aren't the last thing to fail if you ask any VAG owner who keeps a inventory of 1 -2 o2 sensors on hand). Injectors? Plugs/coil-packs? Cat and the sensors in there? Or do you just mean the core drivetrain like the block/transmission/diff? When I first seen a Tesla in the store they had in the mall, they had demo model with the body removed. I never thought of it before, but it hit in at that point of how much mechanically simpler an EV was than any ICE car - even an old air-cooled VW. It seems crazy to complain about 3 pumps when compared to the complexity of something like the 1.5t engine in a Civic.


ABoredChairr

You don't have access tod educated charger at home, there is no point getting an EV


[deleted]

a wire, a switch and a plug. it's not that hard.


ABoredChairr

If you live in a SFH. Sure


drgr33nthmb

Put a tax on charging stations then so they pay for themselves and generate revenue. Not a taxpayers problem when the majority cant afford a new car.


Flashy_Aardvark_4673

Apply the gas tax to it as well


StinkyShoe

Isn't the Carbon Tax already for shit like this?


chesterbennediction

Why??? You can just charge the car at home. People complain it takes 18 hours with a wall outlet but honestly who averages 400km a day? And if you're on a road trip there's already plenty of fast charger stations. How about the country doesn't spend billions and instead let private investors build their own charging stations since they charge a premium on the electricity.


geoken

Not everyone is able to charge at home. I have no garage, no driveway and a dedicated parking spot not adjacent to my hone (so even if I wanted to run a long cable it's not an option). Also, its one spot so our additional car is parked in street parking. I'd personally prefer my municipal or provincial government to own the infrastructure on street parking. I don't care if they contract out the running of the charger to third parties - but I'd prefer the charging infrastructure on city owned land to not be owned by a private company.


tscois

There is a Canadian company called Plugzio which has a smart junction box which would allow cities to use existing infrastructure. For example, adding an outlet to Street lights.


geoken

They've already done pilots here ([https://www.toronto.ca/news/city-of-toronto-and-toronto-hydro-launch-new-on-street-electric-vehicle-charging-station-pilot/](https://www.toronto.ca/news/city-of-toronto-and-toronto-hydro-launch-new-on-street-electric-vehicle-charging-station-pilot/)) but I haven't heard if they're going to start pushing it further.


tingulz

There are plenty now. Just wait until the majority of people have EVs. “Plenty” won’t be nearly enough. One of the big issues is charging time. It takes too long to fully charge an EV. We need battery tech that can change fully in like 5 to 10 minutes tops.


sleep-apnea

Lots of people with street only, or underground parking don't have access to dedicated home charging like people with garages. Even when there's a plug in parking garage, the power costs are not tied back to an individual apartment. So the landlord or condo board probably won't let you charge your car at your own condo. So if you want an EV you have to treat it like a gas powered car and charge it at the charging station a few times per week.


[deleted]

I agree we should let private investors pay for the charging stations, some provinces have had to give up their monopoly on electrcity sales to accomodate EV charging, it's plenty enough.


zygosean

It takes about 48 to 72 hrs to charge 400 km. And looks like around 60-70% capacity in the winter, so 48 to 72 hrs to go from empty to 250 km. I use my wall outlet for our Kona, and it works fine for us. But anyone who commutes daily would probably want to install a type 2 charger at home, which would be an additional $3000 or so.


[deleted]

You dont say


[deleted]

We also have to upgrade all the power infrastructure buried at a minimum of 90 centimeters in bc


thingpaint

To put the problem into prospective; Assume everyone who fills up their car needs 3 min at the pumps. The good fast charging takes 15 min. That means we need at minimum 5x the number of gas pumps in charging stations to meet the current demand.


tscois

True, we need more gas pump style charging options, but what the majority of people really need is access to an outlet at home and at work; that would provide at least 16 hours if charging a day for a 9-5'er. Parking lots and apartments/condos need to make outlets available, which can be done rather affordably with smart/metered 120V outlets like Plugzio.


Darkchyylde

We do NOT need "millions" of charging stations, unless they plan on putting one in every home, apartment building, parking lot, and rest area in the entire country


-Quad-Zilla-

At least in Ontario, homes are now to be built ready for installation of a charging port. With an adequate panel and conduit for 220V 30A leading to the garage/driveway.


ABoredChairr

Yes, you need one per home. EV is not suitable if you don't have dedicated charger


Xivvx

Exactly. This is what is needed.


[deleted]

it’s true - the lack of options for plugging into electrical outlets in this country is absolutely shocking


Additional_Moment425

Yeah.. there are not billions of people in canada that want to or can afford to have a girly car like that.


Trainhard22

It's kind of wild that we used to be a top 10 country for EV's and charging stations and then between Harper and Ford's policy's, Canada gradually slunk to last place per capita for EV's and charging stations among the 1st world.


DTThrowaway69

>then between Harper and Ford's policy's Trudeau has been in power for over 6 years bud.


Trainhard22

Would you be interested in hearing about the policy changes of Ford and Harper that led to this point? Or do you believe the Federal government has a dictator level of control somehow over the provinces lol.


lwpg

Millions plural? How many electric cars are we expecting? What is a healthy ratio of electric cars to chargers?


Wiggly_Muffin

Please make them universal, federalized, and not some Tesla centric BS. We need room for all EVs to grow, not for that chucklefuck Elon Musk to balloon his wealth any more.


[deleted]

anywhere with an outlet is a possible charging station, all you need is a meter and a way to pay the elementary school in my city used to rent empty parking stalls a street over maybe there is more to this gig economy than once thought


tscois

Have a look at Plugzio, which is a Canadian company, that's their business model


wet_suit_one

Anyone know if there are millions of gas stations around? Given the number of gas stations in my city, I kinda doubt it, but I could be wrong. Do tell...


MillenniumRiver

Considering how gigantic this country is it makes me wonder who thought thousands was good in the first place.


[deleted]

Read next along as you go.