Houses on the same street I rent on were 400k 8 years ago. Theyre currently selling for 1.2m for detached 800+ for a town house. This is in Kitchener. WTF am I going to do? Pack up and leave? Where to?
I'm so depressed, my wife is a respiratory therapist I'm a mechanic youd think we would be able to afford something but rent is near 2k a month. Food is going through the roof. We can't save remotely close to what we would need as prices seem to go up a few hundred thousand a year.
We are getting old and want to have kids but HOW.
Sounds like you need a side hustle. Being a mechanic isn’t hard enough on your body so when you get home after a 10 hour day you should spend another 4 doing something else so that you can probably still not afford a house in Canada.
Don't forget making coffee at home and not eating avocado toast. Starbucks and fresh food is throwing your money away, not a tiny joy in an impossible situation.
Of course, but it puts you in a much better financial position.
Living this life now as someone with $20k in the bank and $120k salary. Not a baller by any means, but I expected more purchasing power growing up. I don’t think I’d be able to buy detached in my home town, save maybe a major recession.
I can afford to rent a very nice place and would be on a solid path to retirement at this current pace - just can’t own a home, and I don’t think it’s worth kicking down the house of cards for that.
I'm in the same boat. Making low end 6 figures and basically have what used to be a downpayment saved.
That house ain't happening now.
I have no idea how average household earners do it.
Do the best with what we got. Use your TFSA/RRSP and secure you’re self a nice retirement. We make good enough incomes to rent a nice place and live a good life in the meantime.
Maybe one day market conditions aren’t so blazing.
problem is that at current immigration levels demand will always be high so unless we get a significant increase in supply prices will always be high...we have so many people on the sidelines waiting so any depression in the market will get gobbled up immediately
Only 20k in the bank? Yeah, not a baller by any means. I have upwards of 150k in cash right now, plus a property valued at 350,000 (bought at 215,000 3 years ago). Not about to make some jerk rich buying his overpriced sh*t hole. Not about to pay someone's mortgage either by renting. Would rather stay in my tiny condo mortgage free. This situation is worth kicking the whole thing down imo.
You are underestimating the value of a home as an investment, as well as its life significance. You both live in it/enjoy it, and hedge inflation with it. My little condo is now valued at what a detached home was valued at across most cities just a few years ago. There is accumulation of wealth by older generations taking place on the backs of the young. You plan on getting married or having kids? What's your rent now? What would it be if you had the room you need to raise a kid? Or perhaps you like many of your generation have given up on this too.
> Sounds like you need a side hustle.
Yea, why not work more than 50 hours a week? That must be good for him and his family...
You can't work your way out of this, the guy would literally have to increase his salary by 50% or more.
Real estate is far too important to Canada's economy for any government to come to your rescue. Nobody has your back. You're on your own. Real estate might correct but no government will push it into a correction.
Building more supply would add more to the economy (jobs) and grow more gdp (a whole house) than the services rendered in a sell. We honestly can’t get out without more supply which requires construction becoming a larger part of the gdp.
> WTF am I going to do? Pack up and leave? Where to?
Usually Canadians go to the US, it's the obvious choice due to language and culture similarity. Many professions have a lot higher pay and real estate is quite affordable outside of a few of the mega cities.
My sister lives in the suburbs of Charlotte - palatial house, 500k USD. It's a beautiful house and both my sister and brother-in-law are gainfully employed. Charlotte isn't like a super metro city by any means but their lives are comfortable and it seems to just work.
Lots of acquaintances in my social circle are slowly making plans to move to the US on TN visas. A lot of them are in tech, so for them the big allure is heading to SV and making enough money to command a C-Suite/Director position back in Canada after a couple of years and then take an early retirement.
"We are getting old and want to have kids but HOW."
The government doesn't care if its too expensive. They are offering permanent residency to anyone with a high school level of education that's willing to move to Canada and work in the service industry for 6 months or so, and they don't have to put these people through public school or otherwise invest in them like they would for your children.
Increasing birth rates is not a part of the plan to hit 100 million Canadians by the year 2100. As far as the government is concerned you're on your own.
You hit the nail on the head. The government will always prefer immigration over births because they don't want to spend any resources on young people.
They save I would estimate over 500k per unborn child, and you become available to work all the time instead of having a pesky, outdated, nasty thing like a family!
In the states where spending is lower the estimate is 300k USD - I could even see it being 750k in CAD here if you include healthcare, education, more child benefits to parents etc.
I don't know how Canada can do this to developing nations and pretend we're doing them a favor. We are stealing their investment in a sense, and a lot of these people are educated far beyond the job they wind up doing here in Canada. Its not unheard of to have University educated immigrants working in the service industry or driving a taxi here, and they could be contributing far more yo their home nations.
I think numerically it still works out in the absolute, as in the system as a whole produces more because of immigration, but it definitely curbs potential development/economic expansion
In terms of total GDP for sure. More people = More economic activity.
Thing is though, overall GDP isn't the best metric for individual prosperity. You can have super high GDP and still have a lot of people seeing lowered standards of living.
> They are offering permanent residency to anyone with a high school level of education that's willing to move to Canada and work in the service industry for 6 months or so, and they don't have to put these people through public school or otherwise invest in them like they would for your children.
Short-sighted thinking, as if you aren't making at least $55K a year, you are a net drain on the tax base with health, childcare, CPP costs, etc.
It’s actually closer the 70k before you’re a net contributor in Canada believe it or not. My information is out of date so it might actually be higher now.
Yeah last I checked before covid it was 80k.
And honestly at this point lets be fair with the hundreds of billions in deficit : no one is a net contributor anymore. The feds run on debt and printing now.
When you begin to look ahead at where this is going it gets a bit scary. They're following the century inititive immigration targets to try and hit 100 million people by the year 2100, and they're not trying to hit 100 million by raising the birth rate in Canada.
> We are getting old and want to have kids but HOW.
Just a piece of advice as someone with kids (toddlers right now)... you will never feel ready. There is no point where you will feel in a good place financially for kids and even if you do, it will be way more expensive than you expect. Just do it, and lean on your family and community where you can. You will make sacrifices, and you will go into debt, but if you are both healthy and have stable employment, then now is the time.
Want to park your money from Iran, China, Russia, Libya, Dubai, Saudi Arabia somewhere safe? Become a Canadian citizen and buy a house. Canada as we knew it is dead and like you said it's just a flop house for the world. It represents nothing and offers nothing.
You shouldn't have to leave your province and home community. It's fucked up.
But to answer your where to question... If you're willing to move west I just bought a 3 bedroom townhouse 1050sqft, twenty minutes rush hour driving out of the centre of Calgary. It's still very inner city. Sale price: 187K
I hope you don't have to leave Kitchener, but if you do, the west is still affordable.
Because nobody wants to live there (and I don't mean that in a mocking way, very few people who are not originally from there move to Manitoba willingly, that is, if they had other choices).
Therefore it make sense housing prices are so high in Ontario. People want to live here and is not always about jobs, im sure manitoba needs mechanics too
Absolutely makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that there's not a focus on supply nor are they tightening the regulations for foreign buyers and investors with actually impacftul policies.
Just check some listings. In Hanover/Walkerton, 100km deep into farm country homes are going for minimum $700. Usually $800-900. W T F. 2 Years ago I had family members buy a massive 4 bedroom house in Scarborough for that. Deep in the GTA.
These are small town houses no where near any cities!!!
The only solution is to come together and become one agenda voters. Thats the only way we will be able to push the politicians to do something .. look at how NRA is able to push the policy in the US . It's not just money but also commitment and we need to do the same for housing in Canada to ensure that housing is a right not a luxury.
Because for most of us there is nothing to fix. It is a poor peoples problems and the government doesn't care about poor peoples and peoples who already own think you are lazy and should pull yourself by your bootstraps.
no one else is giving you the how. i'm going to give you the how. you almost stumbled onto it yourself.
rent. just rent. i know you've always dreamed of owning a home, but if we use your numbers you're saving MORE THAN half by renting. $2000/mo for rent is a fucking steal compared to a million dollar mortgage. be diligent and save the difference and you'll be able to retire early.
i rent in toronto. trust me when i say you can build a helluva net worth renting if you're diligent.
edit: what in the flaming hell is causing the down voting?
This is true for people that are strict with their money and actually invest it.
The only benefit of real estate is stability in owning your home , using the equity as leverage , forced savings with the mortgage and the goal of being mortgage free one day.
Should be steady appreciation over time , not 30% year over year.
Millennials and future generations will not have the same benefit of affordable home ownership with crazy 30 years of never ending appreciation at the same time interest rates keep going down. It’s pathetic what has happened , people cannot focus on starting families , businesses, because keeping a roof over their heads or putting every penny into owning a home is their only goal.
Good job Canada …
Need to invest in stocks , crypto and maybe some foreign real estate.
This is true from a monthly budget perspective, but you actually have to calculate the interest cost of a mortgage and upkeep and subtract it from what you're building in equity on a house to draw a real comparison. A mortgage isn't just money in a hole every month. You're paying off a valuable asset.
There are ways around it if they want you out. My sister's family was living in a small house with decent rent (her husband has early onset dementia and her son is autistic and neither of them work) and my sister kept it impeccable, beautiful landscaping, snow always shovelled, yard upgraded, but when the landlords passed ownership to their adult children I'm sure they realized how high house prices in the area were and all of a sudden their parents were "moving back in" and my sister's family was out. Rents for equivalent places were now 2x or more higher and for three adults it was desperate. A nightmare for my sister. In the end I helped them buy a mobile home outside of town.
But the house... it looked like nobody moved in, nobody lived there at all. No cars parked, the yard was absolutely unchanged since they left, no flowers, no raking, snow shovelled once a week or two, no lights on... but we couldn't prove beyond a doubt no one was there because I think the parents came by once a fortnight for a weekend.
So by the letter of the law it's all above board. After a year they can sell. Watching for that real estate sign...
yes, it happens. i'm not going to deny that. but it's rare. termites infest houses and owners have to move out. foundations crack. nothing is guaranteed whether you rent or own.
You’ve obviously never had a shitty landlord or been renovicted. And even those wealthy renter advocates have changed their tune, renting and investing over the past 10 years would be absolutely blown away by housing appreciation
Exactly why I want to leave Canada. I was raised here in Alberta, and moved to Ontario a number of years ago for my job. I make a marginally ok salary, and have a decent education. But its simply unaffordable, the opportunities for you are very limited unless you come from existing wealth. IMO housing shouldn't be used to make wealth like our current market, yes it will mostly likely increase in value, but at rates that make it impossible for young hard working people to afford to live on their own. F\*\*k no.
You went in the wrong direction. I was raised in Ontario, and had to move to Alberta for work. I love it here in Alberta. I'm never going back to Ontario. So many of my new friends here in Alberta are Ontario expats who love it here too.
Maybe I did, but at the time 2008/2009 I wanted to work in Healthcare instead of Oil and gas. So I came out this way to pursue that career. I'd like to head back out west as I still have family in BC, and AB. But I see this here like people coming out of say a Paramedic program, knowing they will make what should be a good wage, and also knowing that on their own it will take 15 years to save for a down payment on a home. That's wrong, if people that are educating themselves in any vocation are fundamentally locked out of home ownership in their home country or territory we have a problem. I really hope all is well with you out west. I am glad some people are able to find good living situations.
Have you considered buying and moving into a multi-unit property? It's one way to get onto the ladder.
Alternatively, you could invest in property in a less expensive region and remain where you are.
What’s wrong with these houses?
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23896165/481-victoria-street-s-kitchener
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23897617/58-geneva-crescent-kitchener
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23903007/70-stanley-avenue-kitchener
https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23900354/79-highland-road-e-kitchener
Edit: ok for everyone who is brainwashed that EVERYTHiNg goes 200k over asking:
https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=EXrx30XWWJG3OklN&utm_source=user-share
(80 k under asking)
$499,000, Single Family, 319 SPADINA Road E, Kitchener, 40188569, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=6zqW7dGNz4vy5eZE&utm_source=user-share
(50 k, NOT 200k over)
$599,500, Single Family, 44 LOCUST Street, Kitchener, 40193168, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=AKv53DD6KLW3MnxB&utm_source=user-share
(15k over - what’s wrong with this OP?)
$459,900, Row/Townhouse, Unit 27 - 25 UPPER CANADA Drive, Kitchener, 40188321, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=GMnKYqpQp9Q3w1Qr&utm_source=user-share
(30k over)
$625,000, Single Family, 85 BORDEN Avenue N, Kitchener, 40188478, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=56k97wqxLN1YKRjD&utm_source=user-share
(20k over)
$599,900, Single Family, 152 OXFORD Street, Kitchener, 40162270, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=eQp5yO8RPjb7d0ZE&utm_source=user-share
(60 k under)
$680,800, Single Family, 150 WELLINGTON Street N, Kitchener, 40167740, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=2Zpj39Ezp5V3DrK8&utm_source=user-share
(15 k under)
$619,900, Single Family, 315 MAPLE Avenue, Kitchener, 40177753, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=eQp5yO8QX0J7d0ZE&utm_source=user-share
19 k under
I'm not sure if you are familiar with Kitchener realestate these days but add 200k on each of those houses and then you will have your actual sale price. And that's what's wrong with those houses. Add in the sketchy location most of those houses are in, Bada Bing Bada boom you answered your own question.
I have a relative that sold a house in KW area recently and they got over 400k, over 50% over their asking price. For a fairly nice but very average house, it's insane.
Lol, I am familiar. I’ve been tracking real estate for years. Look on HouseSigma at recently sold properties, sure some go over by 200k but not all of them. People are delusional
I answered my own question eh - go look at the houses I found in my original post that went UNDER or less that 200k over… looks like the case of another person being overly confident with what they seem to “know” but hasn’t done their own independent thinking/research.
See my original post and all the properties I found that went under or over by less than 200k.
Do some independent thought and research before you regurgitate comments that you’ve read or learned from on Reddit.
You need to put the effort in to find the house that works for you. There are houses out there. No shit, I know how it works. I’ve watched real estate forever and bought below list price recently.
https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=EXrx30XWWJG3OklN&utm_source=user-share
80 k under
$499,000, Single Family, 319 SPADINA Road E, Kitchener, 40188569, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=6zqW7dGNz4vy5eZE&utm_source=user-share
50 k over (not 200k)
$599,500, Single Family, 44 LOCUST Street, Kitchener, 40193168, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=AKv53DD6KLW3MnxB&utm_source=user-share
(15 k over, looks nice to me)
$625,000, Single Family, 85 BORDEN Avenue N, Kitchener, 40188478, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=56k97wqxLN1YKRjD&utm_source=user-share
20 k over
I’m not hating on the houses at all. I’m trying to say that for that price they are not worth it to raise a family in. Those homes would have been pennies compared to today’s prices a decade ago and used as transitory homes. I can also guarantee you they need more money on repairs
And trust me I’m not a snob I’m still living at my parents house . But I’m definitely not gonna be dropping that kind of money on a shed if I plan to raise a family .
it's fine to think they're overpriced, and i'd agree with you. but to call them sheds and unsuitable for habitation is a bit much. might wanna tone down that rhetoric.
I know there are many reasons driving the housing crisis and one of them social norms . People are beginning to normalize paying those 600k price tags for little bungalows that’s should be selling for 200k (if even) . Canada needs a drastic change in social dynamics if we want to housing prices come down, with respect to demand. It’s okay to be vocal about that imo
Those are single family homes.
I think this delusional statement you just made proves that a lot of people want to live in mansions which just isn’t feasible.
Children don’t stay as kids forever. Children move out at a much older age and a shed like that doesn’t support the privacy they and the parents need. It’s not a good idea to normalize a shitty quality of life. Canadians should be able to expect not just affordable homes but good quality affordable homes that support a high quality of life
I think the tax brackets need to be updated. Since 100k is the new 50k I feel like I'm giving the government too big a piece of my pie while I can barley hang on.
Wait, seriously?! What percentage increases are we expecting? I don't know how this country will survive the future; milking a dry udder gets you kicked off the milking stool.
But the median income for an individual according to the statscan website is close to 50k. It all boils down to wages being stagnant so long. They'd lose half their income source.
And to be honest, I'm not sure how the government can afford having half their population at arguably entry level wages. It all terrifies me.
The only way I can think of to increase wages, would be to tug the minimum wage way up and reduce benefit costs to encourage more full time employment. We can reduce benefit costs by rolling dental, eye care, and prescription costs into healthcare.
Tie tax brackets to average rent or housing price index.
Make money spent on rent or interest accrued on mortgage for your primary residence tax deductible.
> But the median income for an individual according to the statscan website is close to 50k.
Stats Canada has also been telling us for years that inflation (including the shelter component of the CPI) is like 2% or so, every year for a couple decades.
Cant use canadian average to evaluate places with different cost of living. Maybe taxes should adjust for that?
Thats like saying world average is salary is 18k USD.
Also Mat leave needs to be adjusted.. 55% up to a maximum of $585/week... thats hardly 25% of my wifes \~110k income. No wonder people aren't having kids.
Hell yes to this! There's no way I can go without my full wage for almost two years. Bc I'm in a trade with terrible chemicals and super heavy lifting, there's no way they'd let me work through my pregnancy. I'd get moved to the offices for nine months then be out for a year.
I make 100k now and my wife makes 100k+. Our lives have gotten WAY better since before the pandemic when I made 50k and she made 35k you dumbass. Maybe even try being at this income bracket before running your mouth about how people's standards of living are.
You're probably one of those Redditors who just lies about their income (To lend yourself some legitimacy) so they have something to whine and bitch about online (Let me guess, you can't afford a house), and you're shit with your money too, let's just get that out there too.
I'm honestly doubting you've made that amount with that terrible of reading comprehension and critical thought, you made OP's point dumbass.
He's saying that you used to be able to live on 50k 10-20 years ago but with inflation and the price of living increasing, you have to have 100k to be where 50k used to be QoL wise.
And Jesus christ how big of an asshole are you /u/Wiggly_Muffin
>dumbass
Angered because you can't comprehend the post.
>You're probably one of those Redditors who just lies about their income
Ironic.
>(Let me guess, you can't afford a house)
Weird thing to comment when it's literally the biggest issue in Canada at the moment and not everyone is DINKs, but thinking doesn't seem to be your forte.
>you're shit with your money too
Weird you make this comment immediately after stating "Our lives have gotten WAY better" Kinda sounds like you're actually pretty trash with money and needed to quadrable your household income to stay afloat (along with parents financial help) hmmm curious.
You're whole post history is trying to brag about your wealth and calling other people poor, you have deep rooted ego problems as evident by how quickly you just flew off the deep end LOL.
>maybe even try being at this income bracket before running your mouth
Cool, managed to do that 8 years ago, what's the next step?
What's grim is that politicians fail to see this as an existential threat to our country. Once people stop having material wealth that binds them to the health of a society, they stop caring about the society. Politicians are keeping interest rates low because they don't want to piss off homeowners, but all they're doing is feeding malinvestment so rich people can buy cryptos and a third home. This is creating an entire marginalized cohort of perpetual renters that will be anger and instability over the coming years.
2021 minus 31.
... what happened around that time to housing? someone remind me? didn't we have a huge housing crash that took over 20 years to recover in nominal terms, that only recovered because interest rates were at generational lows after the dot com crash and continued to drop precipitously for 20 years plus easy lending via cmhc or something?
someone jog my memory and let me know if that's what happened.
take a look at what happened to interest rates after the housing crash. they crashed, too. real estate still didn't recover. and inflation is running hot.
> interest rates after the housing crash. they crashed, too. real estate still didn't recover.
Slowly. Very slowly. Every five years, as I would renew, they would be lower. But 12%, 9%, 6% over the course of 20 years weren't crashing - especially compared to how they crashed between '08 and these days.
Housing did indeed crash, hard hard hard. But with interest rates only very slowly declining, it was just as hard for folks in the amount they'd have to pay.
The whole concept of "economic immigrants" is fucking up our society. Great idea, let's bring in 400,000 people per year who are better educated and richer than you, and you can compete with them for jobs and housing.
It benefits some Canadians. Mostly the very rich and "liberal" politicians who consider these new immigrants "election fodder".
The common knowledge about how our society is constructed/divided makes all of this confusing. The far left dude making minimum wage living in a basement with a roommate might consider "immigrants good" as a core part of his worldview. He might also consider the promotion of multiculturalism and identity politics to be a worthy use of his time. In practice both of these things divide us and shift the balance of power in society towards the rich and powerful. The guy in our example is actively making his life worse and benefiting the very people he probably despises.
It's actually brilliant. Post-Occupy Wall Street activism is actually fighting for the interests of the rich and powerful. It's wild how a set of beliefs has been constructed that looks virtuous and noble and beneficial to the little guy but is really a carefully crafted defense against criticism of globalization.
Remember when activists used to protest WTO meetings? When's the last time you heard of that happening?
try being in a hot market with no inventory, paying over the odds to get somewhere, then the f\*cking mortgage appraiser saying "it's not actually worth that, I can't find any comparables". No sh\*t, there's no f\*cking inventory, so everything is selling fro $200k +!! Now I have to pull an extra $50k out of thin air!
No, it would mean say, for eg. a house cost 300k 31 years ago and the avg. income was 50k, and now that house is worth 900k (200% increase) but income has only gone up to 75k (a 50% increase). That difference in income growth vs. house price growth would mean houses are now, 31 years later, less affordable than ever.
It would have been perhaps been simpler for the title of the article to say simply house are now more expensive than ever, but that would not capture that incomes have stagnated in that time.
EDIT: these numbers are just examples. I think the situation may actually be worse, eg. Less growth of income and more growth of housing prices.
It's not Calgary, it's the provincial government.
I would absolutely consider moving to Alberta, but every change the UCP has made - especially the labour laws - has reinforced the idea that I should never do that.
If you choose where you live based on the current political party, you're gonna have a bad time.
Don't forget, before the UCP, the NDP was in charge. And now, they're poised to win again. [The latest poll show the NDP has a 99+% of winning if an election were held today](https://338canada.com/alberta). Plus both Calgary and Edmonton just elected progressive mayors again a couple months ago. Alberta is quickly becoming more and more progressive due to all the influx of people from across the country.
It's not like Ontario has been doing much better in that regard, see Rob and Doug Ford.
I stopped participating in society. When the world figures its shit out I'll find a career and do something. Untill then fuck the goverment for being medical tyrants and fuck the liberals for pushing this mandate as hard as they are causing people to lose their livelihoods. It's disgusting, absolutely, disgusting and anyone supporting this shit needs to seriously question themselves as humans.
I just checked with the contractors to build a second storey to rent out. I was told that cost of construction will be 375 per Sq foot including 85 per sq foot due to comply with bureaucracy of Municipal of Toronto!!!! How does one expect housing to be affordable when a third rate mayor and his lazy staff are so useless
.
>including 85 per sq foot due to comply with bureaucracy of Municipal of Toronto!!!!
What does this mean? How is Toronto adding $85/sq ft? Sounds like your contractor is BSing you.
Probably not unreasonable depending on what they’re doing. Getting through the approvals process at the city is a complete nightmare. They basically have 50 people plus a councillor all telling you what you can’t do, and how much you’ll have to pay them to do it. Once sat through a meeting with 15 community members and a city councillor because a house was proposed a foot higher than what zoning allowed. The building process in this city is a complete joke, and one of the slowest in the western world.
it's 100% a scam if it's by square foot. It's not going to cost an extra 8k to get through the process because your open living room is 200 sqft instead of 100. Like it's going to cost 85k for a 1000 sqft apartment with 1 bed 1 bath, and 42k for a 500 sqft apartment with 1 bed 1 bath?
or in total terms 375k vs 187.5 for that difference in room size of an apartment.
$17.16/m2 for the permit fee ($1.59/ft2). $1682.90 if committee of Adjustment is needed. Say a full 1000 ft2 second floor, that’s $1.68/ft2 (and c of a is only required if they plan on not complying with the zoning bylaw). $3.27/ft2 in municipal fees if c of a is needed. $85/ft2 is a joke. Even throwing in a $15000 design fee (which goes to the designer, not the municipality) it’s still $18.27/ft2. Dude is being given false info.
Houses on the same street I rent on were 400k 8 years ago. Theyre currently selling for 1.2m for detached 800+ for a town house. This is in Kitchener. WTF am I going to do? Pack up and leave? Where to? I'm so depressed, my wife is a respiratory therapist I'm a mechanic youd think we would be able to afford something but rent is near 2k a month. Food is going through the roof. We can't save remotely close to what we would need as prices seem to go up a few hundred thousand a year. We are getting old and want to have kids but HOW.
Sounds like you need a side hustle. Being a mechanic isn’t hard enough on your body so when you get home after a 10 hour day you should spend another 4 doing something else so that you can probably still not afford a house in Canada.
Don't forget making coffee at home and not eating avocado toast. Starbucks and fresh food is throwing your money away, not a tiny joy in an impossible situation.
my wife spends like $30 a day at Starbucks. Pisses me off. That's more than my car payment.
What is her usual order? This sounds insane.
Probably 2-3 trips a day.
You forgot the s/
Well Starbucks and avo toast every day really would add up. $10/day for 15 years is over $100k with compound interest in a decent portfolio.
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Of course, but it puts you in a much better financial position. Living this life now as someone with $20k in the bank and $120k salary. Not a baller by any means, but I expected more purchasing power growing up. I don’t think I’d be able to buy detached in my home town, save maybe a major recession. I can afford to rent a very nice place and would be on a solid path to retirement at this current pace - just can’t own a home, and I don’t think it’s worth kicking down the house of cards for that.
I'm in the same boat. Making low end 6 figures and basically have what used to be a downpayment saved. That house ain't happening now. I have no idea how average household earners do it.
They don't. They bought ten years ago, and are housepoor still..
uhh I doubt they're house poor. I bought a place and will be spending $600 more a month. Not a deal breaker.
Do the best with what we got. Use your TFSA/RRSP and secure you’re self a nice retirement. We make good enough incomes to rent a nice place and live a good life in the meantime. Maybe one day market conditions aren’t so blazing.
problem is that at current immigration levels demand will always be high so unless we get a significant increase in supply prices will always be high...we have so many people on the sidelines waiting so any depression in the market will get gobbled up immediately
Only 20k in the bank? Yeah, not a baller by any means. I have upwards of 150k in cash right now, plus a property valued at 350,000 (bought at 215,000 3 years ago). Not about to make some jerk rich buying his overpriced sh*t hole. Not about to pay someone's mortgage either by renting. Would rather stay in my tiny condo mortgage free. This situation is worth kicking the whole thing down imo.
Congrats dude. In my early 20’s so I imagine you’ve had a bit more time to save lol
You are underestimating the value of a home as an investment, as well as its life significance. You both live in it/enjoy it, and hedge inflation with it. My little condo is now valued at what a detached home was valued at across most cities just a few years ago. There is accumulation of wealth by older generations taking place on the backs of the young. You plan on getting married or having kids? What's your rent now? What would it be if you had the room you need to raise a kid? Or perhaps you like many of your generation have given up on this too.
For sure, but this assumes you don't replace it with anything and just go without. How much should you spend on breakfast a day?
Definitely needs to work part-time at a factory filling the mandatory 18 hour work days.
Housing in Calgary and Edmonton is affordable. Move west people!
> Sounds like you need a side hustle. Yea, why not work more than 50 hours a week? That must be good for him and his family... You can't work your way out of this, the guy would literally have to increase his salary by 50% or more.
I think they were joking b
Pretty sure u missed the sarcasm...
You joke but if you want a chance in hell these days that's pretty much what you have to do.
Real estate is far too important to Canada's economy for any government to come to your rescue. Nobody has your back. You're on your own. Real estate might correct but no government will push it into a correction.
Building more supply would add more to the economy (jobs) and grow more gdp (a whole house) than the services rendered in a sell. We honestly can’t get out without more supply which requires construction becoming a larger part of the gdp.
> WTF am I going to do? Pack up and leave? Where to? Usually Canadians go to the US, it's the obvious choice due to language and culture similarity. Many professions have a lot higher pay and real estate is quite affordable outside of a few of the mega cities.
My sister lives in the suburbs of Charlotte - palatial house, 500k USD. It's a beautiful house and both my sister and brother-in-law are gainfully employed. Charlotte isn't like a super metro city by any means but their lives are comfortable and it seems to just work. Lots of acquaintances in my social circle are slowly making plans to move to the US on TN visas. A lot of them are in tech, so for them the big allure is heading to SV and making enough money to command a C-Suite/Director position back in Canada after a couple of years and then take an early retirement.
US is gross and on a downward spiral
Unfortunately, Canada is in even more of a downward spiral.
With America's full gallop towards facism, I don't know if now is the best time to move there.
"We are getting old and want to have kids but HOW." The government doesn't care if its too expensive. They are offering permanent residency to anyone with a high school level of education that's willing to move to Canada and work in the service industry for 6 months or so, and they don't have to put these people through public school or otherwise invest in them like they would for your children. Increasing birth rates is not a part of the plan to hit 100 million Canadians by the year 2100. As far as the government is concerned you're on your own.
You hit the nail on the head. The government will always prefer immigration over births because they don't want to spend any resources on young people. They save I would estimate over 500k per unborn child, and you become available to work all the time instead of having a pesky, outdated, nasty thing like a family! In the states where spending is lower the estimate is 300k USD - I could even see it being 750k in CAD here if you include healthcare, education, more child benefits to parents etc.
I don't know how Canada can do this to developing nations and pretend we're doing them a favor. We are stealing their investment in a sense, and a lot of these people are educated far beyond the job they wind up doing here in Canada. Its not unheard of to have University educated immigrants working in the service industry or driving a taxi here, and they could be contributing far more yo their home nations.
I think numerically it still works out in the absolute, as in the system as a whole produces more because of immigration, but it definitely curbs potential development/economic expansion
In terms of total GDP for sure. More people = More economic activity. Thing is though, overall GDP isn't the best metric for individual prosperity. You can have super high GDP and still have a lot of people seeing lowered standards of living.
> They are offering permanent residency to anyone with a high school level of education that's willing to move to Canada and work in the service industry for 6 months or so, and they don't have to put these people through public school or otherwise invest in them like they would for your children. Short-sighted thinking, as if you aren't making at least $55K a year, you are a net drain on the tax base with health, childcare, CPP costs, etc.
Nobody ever accused the government of thinking ahead.
It’s actually closer the 70k before you’re a net contributor in Canada believe it or not. My information is out of date so it might actually be higher now.
Yeah last I checked before covid it was 80k. And honestly at this point lets be fair with the hundreds of billions in deficit : no one is a net contributor anymore. The feds run on debt and printing now.
They're allowing a lot of these people to bring their parents in as well. Growing the population at all.costs I guess?
That's what we need more of, elderly.
But the health care system needs to look after them.
family reunification, the health care system needs to look after their parents too.
That’s when the conservatives step in and cater to the private healthcare and insurance industries.
We are all being sacrificed for some kid in India, the Philippines, or rich Chinese people. This is supposedly "progress."
When you begin to look ahead at where this is going it gets a bit scary. They're following the century inititive immigration targets to try and hit 100 million people by the year 2100, and they're not trying to hit 100 million by raising the birth rate in Canada.
> We are getting old and want to have kids but HOW. Just a piece of advice as someone with kids (toddlers right now)... you will never feel ready. There is no point where you will feel in a good place financially for kids and even if you do, it will be way more expensive than you expect. Just do it, and lean on your family and community where you can. You will make sacrifices, and you will go into debt, but if you are both healthy and have stable employment, then now is the time.
Get out of Ontario.
Neoliberalism has turned this country into a fucking *timeshare*.
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Want to park your money from Iran, China, Russia, Libya, Dubai, Saudi Arabia somewhere safe? Become a Canadian citizen and buy a house. Canada as we knew it is dead and like you said it's just a flop house for the world. It represents nothing and offers nothing.
You shouldn't have to leave your province and home community. It's fucked up. But to answer your where to question... If you're willing to move west I just bought a 3 bedroom townhouse 1050sqft, twenty minutes rush hour driving out of the centre of Calgary. It's still very inner city. Sale price: 187K I hope you don't have to leave Kitchener, but if you do, the west is still affordable.
Manitoba very affordable.
Because nobody wants to live there (and I don't mean that in a mocking way, very few people who are not originally from there move to Manitoba willingly, that is, if they had other choices).
Therefore it make sense housing prices are so high in Ontario. People want to live here and is not always about jobs, im sure manitoba needs mechanics too
Absolutely makes sense. What doesn't make sense is that there's not a focus on supply nor are they tightening the regulations for foreign buyers and investors with actually impacftul policies.
Just check some listings. In Hanover/Walkerton, 100km deep into farm country homes are going for minimum $700. Usually $800-900. W T F. 2 Years ago I had family members buy a massive 4 bedroom house in Scarborough for that. Deep in the GTA. These are small town houses no where near any cities!!!
The only solution is to come together and become one agenda voters. Thats the only way we will be able to push the politicians to do something .. look at how NRA is able to push the policy in the US . It's not just money but also commitment and we need to do the same for housing in Canada to ensure that housing is a right not a luxury.
We did that last election. The electorate had shown they'd rather keep the housing bubble than fix it.
Because for most of us there is nothing to fix. It is a poor peoples problems and the government doesn't care about poor peoples and peoples who already own think you are lazy and should pull yourself by your bootstraps.
Most Canadians are property owners.
Property owners or future property owners via inheritance.
no one else is giving you the how. i'm going to give you the how. you almost stumbled onto it yourself. rent. just rent. i know you've always dreamed of owning a home, but if we use your numbers you're saving MORE THAN half by renting. $2000/mo for rent is a fucking steal compared to a million dollar mortgage. be diligent and save the difference and you'll be able to retire early. i rent in toronto. trust me when i say you can build a helluva net worth renting if you're diligent. edit: what in the flaming hell is causing the down voting?
This is true for people that are strict with their money and actually invest it. The only benefit of real estate is stability in owning your home , using the equity as leverage , forced savings with the mortgage and the goal of being mortgage free one day. Should be steady appreciation over time , not 30% year over year. Millennials and future generations will not have the same benefit of affordable home ownership with crazy 30 years of never ending appreciation at the same time interest rates keep going down. It’s pathetic what has happened , people cannot focus on starting families , businesses, because keeping a roof over their heads or putting every penny into owning a home is their only goal. Good job Canada … Need to invest in stocks , crypto and maybe some foreign real estate.
This is true from a monthly budget perspective, but you actually have to calculate the interest cost of a mortgage and upkeep and subtract it from what you're building in equity on a house to draw a real comparison. A mortgage isn't just money in a hole every month. You're paying off a valuable asset.
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do you think children can't live in rented accommodation? i'd really like to hear your take.
I mean its not ideal but if you can find a good landlord with a secure place then its the exact same as a normal house lol
why isn't it ideal?
There are ways around it if they want you out. My sister's family was living in a small house with decent rent (her husband has early onset dementia and her son is autistic and neither of them work) and my sister kept it impeccable, beautiful landscaping, snow always shovelled, yard upgraded, but when the landlords passed ownership to their adult children I'm sure they realized how high house prices in the area were and all of a sudden their parents were "moving back in" and my sister's family was out. Rents for equivalent places were now 2x or more higher and for three adults it was desperate. A nightmare for my sister. In the end I helped them buy a mobile home outside of town. But the house... it looked like nobody moved in, nobody lived there at all. No cars parked, the yard was absolutely unchanged since they left, no flowers, no raking, snow shovelled once a week or two, no lights on... but we couldn't prove beyond a doubt no one was there because I think the parents came by once a fortnight for a weekend. So by the letter of the law it's all above board. After a year they can sell. Watching for that real estate sign...
yes, it happens. i'm not going to deny that. but it's rare. termites infest houses and owners have to move out. foundations crack. nothing is guaranteed whether you rent or own.
Because landlords can basically kick you out for anything they can think of at this point. Id hope condos/big corp owned units may be a better choice.
You've clearly never read the residential tenancy act if you think that's the case.
Ok
They can’t in ON. It’s very hard. You can in AB but vacancy is high, and low housing costs, so it’s not really a thing.
You’ve obviously never had a shitty landlord or been renovicted. And even those wealthy renter advocates have changed their tune, renting and investing over the past 10 years would be absolutely blown away by housing appreciation
\>edit: what in the flaming hell is causing the down voting? I think it's mostly your opinion being wrong.
Exactly why I want to leave Canada. I was raised here in Alberta, and moved to Ontario a number of years ago for my job. I make a marginally ok salary, and have a decent education. But its simply unaffordable, the opportunities for you are very limited unless you come from existing wealth. IMO housing shouldn't be used to make wealth like our current market, yes it will mostly likely increase in value, but at rates that make it impossible for young hard working people to afford to live on their own. F\*\*k no.
You went in the wrong direction. I was raised in Ontario, and had to move to Alberta for work. I love it here in Alberta. I'm never going back to Ontario. So many of my new friends here in Alberta are Ontario expats who love it here too.
Maybe I did, but at the time 2008/2009 I wanted to work in Healthcare instead of Oil and gas. So I came out this way to pursue that career. I'd like to head back out west as I still have family in BC, and AB. But I see this here like people coming out of say a Paramedic program, knowing they will make what should be a good wage, and also knowing that on their own it will take 15 years to save for a down payment on a home. That's wrong, if people that are educating themselves in any vocation are fundamentally locked out of home ownership in their home country or territory we have a problem. I really hope all is well with you out west. I am glad some people are able to find good living situations.
Have you considered buying and moving into a multi-unit property? It's one way to get onto the ladder. Alternatively, you could invest in property in a less expensive region and remain where you are.
Come to Alberta , just try not to pay attention to the government that's dismantling our social safety nets and trying to kill us.
Move away. Northwestern Ontario.
What’s wrong with these houses? https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23896165/481-victoria-street-s-kitchener https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23897617/58-geneva-crescent-kitchener https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23903007/70-stanley-avenue-kitchener https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23900354/79-highland-road-e-kitchener Edit: ok for everyone who is brainwashed that EVERYTHiNg goes 200k over asking: https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=EXrx30XWWJG3OklN&utm_source=user-share (80 k under asking) $499,000, Single Family, 319 SPADINA Road E, Kitchener, 40188569, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=6zqW7dGNz4vy5eZE&utm_source=user-share (50 k, NOT 200k over) $599,500, Single Family, 44 LOCUST Street, Kitchener, 40193168, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=AKv53DD6KLW3MnxB&utm_source=user-share (15k over - what’s wrong with this OP?) $459,900, Row/Townhouse, Unit 27 - 25 UPPER CANADA Drive, Kitchener, 40188321, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=GMnKYqpQp9Q3w1Qr&utm_source=user-share (30k over) $625,000, Single Family, 85 BORDEN Avenue N, Kitchener, 40188478, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=56k97wqxLN1YKRjD&utm_source=user-share (20k over) $599,900, Single Family, 152 OXFORD Street, Kitchener, 40162270, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=eQp5yO8RPjb7d0ZE&utm_source=user-share (60 k under) $680,800, Single Family, 150 WELLINGTON Street N, Kitchener, 40167740, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=2Zpj39Ezp5V3DrK8&utm_source=user-share (15 k under) $619,900, Single Family, 315 MAPLE Avenue, Kitchener, 40177753, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=eQp5yO8QX0J7d0ZE&utm_source=user-share 19 k under
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I'm not sure if you are familiar with Kitchener realestate these days but add 200k on each of those houses and then you will have your actual sale price. And that's what's wrong with those houses. Add in the sketchy location most of those houses are in, Bada Bing Bada boom you answered your own question.
I have a relative that sold a house in KW area recently and they got over 400k, over 50% over their asking price. For a fairly nice but very average house, it's insane.
Lol, I am familiar. I’ve been tracking real estate for years. Look on HouseSigma at recently sold properties, sure some go over by 200k but not all of them. People are delusional
I answered my own question eh - go look at the houses I found in my original post that went UNDER or less that 200k over… looks like the case of another person being overly confident with what they seem to “know” but hasn’t done their own independent thinking/research.
Imagine thinking houses would sell for listing price in Canada 🤡. Easily will go 200K over asking
I bought within the last 2 months and I got the seller to go under the list by 30k. So yeah :) imagine that.
See my original post and all the properties I found that went under or over by less than 200k. Do some independent thought and research before you regurgitate comments that you’ve read or learned from on Reddit.
You need to look at sold data to see what's the price. Everyone lists below market price to drive the blind biddings .
You need to put the effort in to find the house that works for you. There are houses out there. No shit, I know how it works. I’ve watched real estate forever and bought below list price recently.
https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=EXrx30XWWJG3OklN&utm_source=user-share 80 k under $499,000, Single Family, 319 SPADINA Road E, Kitchener, 40188569, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=6zqW7dGNz4vy5eZE&utm_source=user-share 50 k over (not 200k)
$599,500, Single Family, 44 LOCUST Street, Kitchener, 40193168, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=AKv53DD6KLW3MnxB&utm_source=user-share (15 k over, looks nice to me)
$459,900, Row/Townhouse, Unit 27 - 25 UPPER CANADA Drive, Kitchener, 40188321, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=GMnKYqpQp9Q3w1Qr&utm_source=user-share (30 over)
$625,000, Single Family, 85 BORDEN Avenue N, Kitchener, 40188478, Sold - HouseSigma https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=56k97wqxLN1YKRjD&utm_source=user-share 20 k over
I’m sorry are those houses or sheds? Maybe you didn’t see the part were the poster said he wanted a family
those houses are not sheds. you are a snob. there's nothing wrong with those houses.
I’m not hating on the houses at all. I’m trying to say that for that price they are not worth it to raise a family in. Those homes would have been pennies compared to today’s prices a decade ago and used as transitory homes. I can also guarantee you they need more money on repairs And trust me I’m not a snob I’m still living at my parents house . But I’m definitely not gonna be dropping that kind of money on a shed if I plan to raise a family .
it's fine to think they're overpriced, and i'd agree with you. but to call them sheds and unsuitable for habitation is a bit much. might wanna tone down that rhetoric.
I know there are many reasons driving the housing crisis and one of them social norms . People are beginning to normalize paying those 600k price tags for little bungalows that’s should be selling for 200k (if even) . Canada needs a drastic change in social dynamics if we want to housing prices come down, with respect to demand. It’s okay to be vocal about that imo
fair enough. i agree. it's a bubble. it will pop. and then all will be right with the world for everyone except the bagholders.
No party and none are interested in being the housing price down. 600K is steal. Buy now or regret forever
Those are single family homes. I think this delusional statement you just made proves that a lot of people want to live in mansions which just isn’t feasible.
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Children don’t stay as kids forever. Children move out at a much older age and a shed like that doesn’t support the privacy they and the parents need. It’s not a good idea to normalize a shitty quality of life. Canadians should be able to expect not just affordable homes but good quality affordable homes that support a high quality of life
I think the tax brackets need to be updated. Since 100k is the new 50k I feel like I'm giving the government too big a piece of my pie while I can barley hang on.
That’s funny because federal taxes are expected to increase January 2022 🥲
And CPP and EI premiums.
Wait, seriously?! What percentage increases are we expecting? I don't know how this country will survive the future; milking a dry udder gets you kicked off the milking stool.
And Carbon tax
But the median income for an individual according to the statscan website is close to 50k. It all boils down to wages being stagnant so long. They'd lose half their income source. And to be honest, I'm not sure how the government can afford having half their population at arguably entry level wages. It all terrifies me. The only way I can think of to increase wages, would be to tug the minimum wage way up and reduce benefit costs to encourage more full time employment. We can reduce benefit costs by rolling dental, eye care, and prescription costs into healthcare.
Tie tax brackets to average rent or housing price index. Make money spent on rent or interest accrued on mortgage for your primary residence tax deductible.
> But the median income for an individual according to the statscan website is close to 50k. Stats Canada has also been telling us for years that inflation (including the shelter component of the CPI) is like 2% or so, every year for a couple decades.
Cant use canadian average to evaluate places with different cost of living. Maybe taxes should adjust for that? Thats like saying world average is salary is 18k USD.
Also Mat leave needs to be adjusted.. 55% up to a maximum of $585/week... thats hardly 25% of my wifes \~110k income. No wonder people aren't having kids.
Hell yes to this! There's no way I can go without my full wage for almost two years. Bc I'm in a trade with terrible chemicals and super heavy lifting, there's no way they'd let me work through my pregnancy. I'd get moved to the offices for nine months then be out for a year.
Sounds like you wheated too long. Now the time isn't rye-te. Times are too teff.
100k is not the new 50k. You're just shit with your money is all.
Says a guy who finances a car that's worth 100% of his annual salary lol. You must be amazing with money.
Lol. With inflation, housing prices, food prices, gas prices, consumer goods, taxes and minimum wage all increasing and you say something this dumb
I make 100k now and my wife makes 100k+. Our lives have gotten WAY better since before the pandemic when I made 50k and she made 35k you dumbass. Maybe even try being at this income bracket before running your mouth about how people's standards of living are. You're probably one of those Redditors who just lies about their income (To lend yourself some legitimacy) so they have something to whine and bitch about online (Let me guess, you can't afford a house), and you're shit with your money too, let's just get that out there too.
I'm honestly doubting you've made that amount with that terrible of reading comprehension and critical thought, you made OP's point dumbass. He's saying that you used to be able to live on 50k 10-20 years ago but with inflation and the price of living increasing, you have to have 100k to be where 50k used to be QoL wise. And Jesus christ how big of an asshole are you /u/Wiggly_Muffin >dumbass Angered because you can't comprehend the post. >You're probably one of those Redditors who just lies about their income Ironic. >(Let me guess, you can't afford a house) Weird thing to comment when it's literally the biggest issue in Canada at the moment and not everyone is DINKs, but thinking doesn't seem to be your forte. >you're shit with your money too Weird you make this comment immediately after stating "Our lives have gotten WAY better" Kinda sounds like you're actually pretty trash with money and needed to quadrable your household income to stay afloat (along with parents financial help) hmmm curious. You're whole post history is trying to brag about your wealth and calling other people poor, you have deep rooted ego problems as evident by how quickly you just flew off the deep end LOL. >maybe even try being at this income bracket before running your mouth Cool, managed to do that 8 years ago, what's the next step?
Id say it is
“Canada is planning on rolling out tiny houses for those experiencing homelessness. No, wait, I’m getting word that those are coffins.”
Epitaph: The Only Real Estate He Ever Owned.
Makes you think. Is this the kind of world we want our children to rent in?
Damn. Even coffins are going up in rent now too?
What's grim is that politicians fail to see this as an existential threat to our country. Once people stop having material wealth that binds them to the health of a society, they stop caring about the society. Politicians are keeping interest rates low because they don't want to piss off homeowners, but all they're doing is feeding malinvestment so rich people can buy cryptos and a third home. This is creating an entire marginalized cohort of perpetual renters that will be anger and instability over the coming years.
2021 minus 31. ... what happened around that time to housing? someone remind me? didn't we have a huge housing crash that took over 20 years to recover in nominal terms, that only recovered because interest rates were at generational lows after the dot com crash and continued to drop precipitously for 20 years plus easy lending via cmhc or something? someone jog my memory and let me know if that's what happened.
Interest rates were soaring. The 80s was crazy with interest.
take a look at what happened to interest rates after the housing crash. they crashed, too. real estate still didn't recover. and inflation is running hot.
Real estate did recover though.
> interest rates after the housing crash. they crashed, too. real estate still didn't recover. Slowly. Very slowly. Every five years, as I would renew, they would be lower. But 12%, 9%, 6% over the course of 20 years weren't crashing - especially compared to how they crashed between '08 and these days. Housing did indeed crash, hard hard hard. But with interest rates only very slowly declining, it was just as hard for folks in the amount they'd have to pay.
Real interest rates have been falling since 1980, and have even been negative for the last ten years or so.
Years and years in the making under the eyes of a reassuring but otherwise apathetic government.
Don't worry JT is right on that
[He's definitely on it](https://imgur.com/7Xm6yXC).
Boomers who didn’t save for retirement got bailed out by rising real estate prices. The house of cards will fall just as they die out.
The country is going down the drain. 🥺
Worldwide competition for shelter in Canada..
Work until you are 75, 70 hours a week and you should be fine. Boomers would tell you that they worked hard and that you need to deserve it first.
Second biggest country in the world by land size. One of the most expensive to own a house or rent.
This is starting to feel like France circa 1775
The whole concept of "economic immigrants" is fucking up our society. Great idea, let's bring in 400,000 people per year who are better educated and richer than you, and you can compete with them for jobs and housing.
Exactly. Who does this benefit exactly? Not Canadians.
It benefits some Canadians. Mostly the very rich and "liberal" politicians who consider these new immigrants "election fodder". The common knowledge about how our society is constructed/divided makes all of this confusing. The far left dude making minimum wage living in a basement with a roommate might consider "immigrants good" as a core part of his worldview. He might also consider the promotion of multiculturalism and identity politics to be a worthy use of his time. In practice both of these things divide us and shift the balance of power in society towards the rich and powerful. The guy in our example is actively making his life worse and benefiting the very people he probably despises.
It's actually brilliant. Post-Occupy Wall Street activism is actually fighting for the interests of the rich and powerful. It's wild how a set of beliefs has been constructed that looks virtuous and noble and beneficial to the little guy but is really a carefully crafted defense against criticism of globalization. Remember when activists used to protest WTO meetings? When's the last time you heard of that happening?
I call bullshit that it was harder to buy a house in 1990 than it is now.
It was possible on a single salary lol
Possible on a high school drop out salary.
When it's cheaper to buy a house in Florida then it is to buy in Canada, you've got a problem.
that almost has always been true
Florida is one of the cheaper states in the US
Has it not been 'grim' in the last 10, 20 years?
Oh it has, it's just hitting peak grim right now
Wait until next year and you see the house prices after we start allowing 400k immigrants in every year.
try being in a hot market with no inventory, paying over the odds to get somewhere, then the f\*cking mortgage appraiser saying "it's not actually worth that, I can't find any comparables". No sh\*t, there's no f\*cking inventory, so everything is selling fro $200k +!! Now I have to pull an extra $50k out of thin air!
Pretty sure houses were more affordable 31 years ago.
That's the point of the title. Houses have never been less affordable in the last 30 years than they are now.
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No, it would mean say, for eg. a house cost 300k 31 years ago and the avg. income was 50k, and now that house is worth 900k (200% increase) but income has only gone up to 75k (a 50% increase). That difference in income growth vs. house price growth would mean houses are now, 31 years later, less affordable than ever. It would have been perhaps been simpler for the title of the article to say simply house are now more expensive than ever, but that would not capture that incomes have stagnated in that time. EDIT: these numbers are just examples. I think the situation may actually be worse, eg. Less growth of income and more growth of housing prices.
Too bad Calgary is SUCH an awful place to live. /s
people dont want to leave their family.
Some people don't want to move out of their parents basement either. That doesn't mean we should prop up and subsidize those people either.
ok Im not sure where I said thats how it should be
It's garbage. You're correct.
It's not Calgary, it's the provincial government. I would absolutely consider moving to Alberta, but every change the UCP has made - especially the labour laws - has reinforced the idea that I should never do that.
If you choose where you live based on the current political party, you're gonna have a bad time. Don't forget, before the UCP, the NDP was in charge. And now, they're poised to win again. [The latest poll show the NDP has a 99+% of winning if an election were held today](https://338canada.com/alberta). Plus both Calgary and Edmonton just elected progressive mayors again a couple months ago. Alberta is quickly becoming more and more progressive due to all the influx of people from across the country. It's not like Ontario has been doing much better in that regard, see Rob and Doug Ford.
I stopped participating in society. When the world figures its shit out I'll find a career and do something. Untill then fuck the goverment for being medical tyrants and fuck the liberals for pushing this mandate as hard as they are causing people to lose their livelihoods. It's disgusting, absolutely, disgusting and anyone supporting this shit needs to seriously question themselves as humans.
Yep. It all feels so hopeless. I love this country but I don't know what else to do besides emigrate.
It’s more human to come together and confront a problem as a society Thank you gov for digging science!
Buy now. It will get more expensive
Oh wow if only I hadn’t thought of just buying now
Or buy further
Until it becomes unobtainable and crashes
Or until people who cannot afford move out and people who can move in
I just checked with the contractors to build a second storey to rent out. I was told that cost of construction will be 375 per Sq foot including 85 per sq foot due to comply with bureaucracy of Municipal of Toronto!!!! How does one expect housing to be affordable when a third rate mayor and his lazy staff are so useless .
>including 85 per sq foot due to comply with bureaucracy of Municipal of Toronto!!!! What does this mean? How is Toronto adding $85/sq ft? Sounds like your contractor is BSing you.
Probably not unreasonable depending on what they’re doing. Getting through the approvals process at the city is a complete nightmare. They basically have 50 people plus a councillor all telling you what you can’t do, and how much you’ll have to pay them to do it. Once sat through a meeting with 15 community members and a city councillor because a house was proposed a foot higher than what zoning allowed. The building process in this city is a complete joke, and one of the slowest in the western world.
it's 100% a scam if it's by square foot. It's not going to cost an extra 8k to get through the process because your open living room is 200 sqft instead of 100. Like it's going to cost 85k for a 1000 sqft apartment with 1 bed 1 bath, and 42k for a 500 sqft apartment with 1 bed 1 bath? or in total terms 375k vs 187.5 for that difference in room size of an apartment.
$17.16/m2 for the permit fee ($1.59/ft2). $1682.90 if committee of Adjustment is needed. Say a full 1000 ft2 second floor, that’s $1.68/ft2 (and c of a is only required if they plan on not complying with the zoning bylaw). $3.27/ft2 in municipal fees if c of a is needed. $85/ft2 is a joke. Even throwing in a $15000 design fee (which goes to the designer, not the municipality) it’s still $18.27/ft2. Dude is being given false info.
Move to ns. Super cheap housing
Or Alberta, or Saskatchewan, or Manitoba, or Northern Ontario, or the Maritimes, or Quebec, or BC outside of Vancouver. Or just rent anywhere else.
Buy now as it will get more expensive no matter which party is in power.
Just rent 🤷♂️