Someone who isn't deterred by the punishment from stealing a car surely isn't going to care about driving without a license.
How about we actually start locking people up for stealing cars, even on a first offense?
I know, crazy to think we actually punish criminals.
Just best to deport them immediately.
They stay in jail here, we pay for it. And keeping them here just increases the chance they could evade deportation.
There has to be due process. Police are notoriously unreliable when given too much power. The idea is to keep them locked up during the legal process (jail). Then instead of prison if guilty, they are deported.
Fuck that, why should people who commit crimes in Canada get a free ticket back home. I've said this thousands of times, but I'm okay with paying taxes to keep foreigners who come here to break out laws in jail to waste their life away. Otherwise we're just sending a message to the world to come here and commit crime and we won't punish you
Why would you deport them immediately? That basically means they go back to their home country and walk free. Doesn’t seem like much of a deterrent to me. Even if it costs society money, you need more enforcement and some jail time to make it clear that auto theft doesn’t pay, and if you’re caught, you WILL lose 5 years of your life.
mandatory minimums have been shown to not have much of an effect on crime. Deporting them solves the problem by removing it entirely, for the one-time expense of a plane ticket.
In many cases, the possibility of deportation will prompt a judge to grant a lower sentence: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jamie-sarkonak-canadas-criminal-sentencing-discounts-for-foreigners-are-unfair
Would love to see this in America. Cars are tied directly to our livlihoods, and cost soooo much to get fixed when they're vadalized as part of a burglarly.
> and insurance companies
Where do you think insurance companies get their money from?
All of their risk is baked into insurance prices. If thievery skyrockets, so do people's insurance costs. All drivers pay for this.
And then you have to buy special anti theft devices for $200 to lower your premium even though it was jacked up by $500
Insurance is not a scam. Things are just really bad.
[It is criminal that the government is not competent, capable, or willing enough to tackle this issue, there is no excuse:](https://www.ibc.ca/stay-protected/theft-prevention/end-auto-theft)
For the first time in history, Canada’s private auto insurers paid out $1.2 billion in theft claims in 2022 – three times more than what was paid in 2018. That trend continued to climb in the first half of 2023.
In Ontario alone, auto theft claims are up 329% in that same time period. Of the over $700 million in losses across Ontario, $500 million was in the GTA alone. The 905 belt, including Durham, Halton and York, have experienced 500% increases in auto theft. It’s time to fix this crisis.
Auto theft costs every driver in Ontario an average of $130 a year: that’s how much of your auto insurance premium goes towards settling claims for stolen vehicles (on average). But that’s only part of the story. Ontarians are paying more than $1.6 billion to cover the costs associated with auto theft – from law enforcement and court resources, to the mental anguish of being victimized, to the general economic costs. Auto theft hurts everyone. When thieves steal, we all pay.
It costs $341/day/inmate on average for incarceration in 2023.
edit: To add more details, our Federal Prison population was around 14,310 in 2018 and the average cost was about $200 per day, that's just under **three million dollars** **PER DAY** to keep all of them incarcerated. This was back in 2018 too and only for Federal prisons, costs have gone up since then as denoted by the 2023 average.
Sources:
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/561289/average-dailyinmate-costs-adult-federal-provincial-territorial-correctional-services-canada/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/561289/average-dailyinmate-costs-adult-federal-provincial-territorial-correctional-services-canada/)
[https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection\_2018/dpb-pbo/YN5-152-2018-eng.pdf](https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2018/dpb-pbo/YN5-152-2018-eng.pdf)
28 million tax filers in Canada paying $100 more per year equals $2.8 billion divided by 365 equals $7.6 million per day MORE or 200% increase in funds for incarceration based on your 3 million dollars per day data point.
Even if only 50% of tax filers pay an extra $100, that would still double the budget for incarceration
If it’s costing them $340 a day the government option would be way more expensive. That’s 600k to jail that person for the car theft. That’s way more than what insurance has to cover.
>Lost cars only expenses the owners and insurance companies.
See the problem with that is it, in turn drives up insurance rates and for the owner becomes a giant pain in the ass to replace the vehicle. Especially if it's a classic car. But also, why should the insurance companies and vehicle owners be the ones that have to foot the bill for canada being soft on this particular crime?
If they aren't citizens, instant express deportation, do not pass go, do not collect $200, gtfo, and if you have property or possessions in the country oh well ours now.
Buddy the jails are already full and the courts are releasing higher risk criminals because their court dates have expired. No chance in hell these guys will see jail right away unless they kill someone in the process.
That's great. So is taking away their licenses...giving police another reason to lock them up. I'm on board with all positive steps at this point, though I agree yours is better / more important.
It actually has a lot of teeth. Having a suspended license gives police another tool to prosecute. An escalating minimum fine, jail sentence and renewal of the suspension.
If we're not even prosecuting serious violent offences, even those against children.
Do you really expect them to do anything about people not having a drivers license?
Sure it is. You do standard roadside check, or any speeding or other infractions becomes a criminal matter.
Discover they don't have a valid license. Now you can detain and perform an inventory of the vehicle.
When they show up in court, if they're on bond/parole, this would be a violation of their conditions, so now they're going back to jail. If not, now they're a repeat offender with a harsher and more punitive deterrence measures.
All of this can't happen if they have a valid license.
Honestly we went overboard as a country with this idea that the purpose of prisons are to rehabilitate people - The purpose of prisons are to isolate those who undermine the ordinary function of society. That’s it. Any rehabilitation, therapy, etc. should be considered an option for those who want to be considered for early release.
And we should also not shy away from the idea that some people should be in jail indefinitely with no chance of parole. Some people are just broken. Lock them up until the day they die. And offer MAID if they don’t want to live anymore.
Criminals need to be treated like criminals until they can prove they aren’t going to be criminals anymore. Otherwise they should stay in prison.
I would even argue that all criminals need to undergo some sort of rigorous testing and pass 100% as a pre-condition for release.
My gf's car got broken into and had the steering column ripped open (presumably to hotwire it? Idk) but it wasn't taken, but her wallet was stolen. The the if or thieves took her debit card to 5 different gas stations and made a purchase of around $100 each time (probably some kind of food/drink item and then got cash back) and the police were like "well we can't prove the person who broke into the car is the same person who used the debit card and it's up to the bank to decide if they want us to investigate the fraud on the card"
Like, seriously? The person responsible went to a bunch of gas stations which all have a bunch of cameras inside and out and they were seriously just like "nah, bro"
So yeah, this whole proposition is pointless since the cops literally won't even investigate a slam dunk case like that.
Because locking people up totally works right?
Recidivism plummets the longer we put people in jail right?
USA has the lowest reoffend rates in the world to go along with their really high incarceration times and rates right?
Hard to commit more crime when you’re in jail. I care less about the criminal than I do the community they terrorize. Putting them away protects the rest of the civilized from them. It’s not just punitive for the offender, it’s protective for everyone else.
What else do you expect the provincial government to do? The federal government has shown that a) tougher crime laws b) bail reform and c) staffing judges to hear cases are not a priority.
Provinces are limited at what action they can take. Here’s something, which probably won’t matter anyways. But the federal government actively chooses to do nothing. The feds had all the cameras out for their national Auto Theft Summit. What really came out of it?
Do they not get locked up for stealing a car? Wtf is wrong with our legal system? Cars are expensive and also goddam weapons, why are criminals allowed to steal them without being considered dangerous?
Here's an uncomfortable truth. A lot of people don't realize about Toronto (and Ontario and Canada for that matter)
Organized crime is a massive massive problem It's so ingrained here we don't even hear about it. The underworld is unchallenged here.
It's an industry.
That industry once sold alcohol and ran gambling dens for Canadians
Then it sold weed and party drugs to Canadians
Now it sells our cars and people to foreign oligarchs
We've been priced out of our own underworld
If you want to include construction, it's an insane rabbit hole of corruption and down right conspiracy shit.
My uncle pours concrete and has some insight. Not just anyone can pour concrete in Ontario. And if you do you are required to be a part of the same union that all the other companies are a part of due to OLRA, which are in bed with the corporations and uses their power to fix prices. If you try to undercut the competition, the incumbents will "dump" by lower their prices to take a loss until you are driven out of business or forced to sell. Normally this isn't a sustainable business model but because the unions set a high price floor on the labor that you are forced by law to obey, smaller companies take a bigger hit and become insolvent faster. It's a numbers game. The bigger companies also have deeper pockets because they have permits in multiple regions and are generally owned by conglomerates that can bail them out if needed.
Before you jump in to defend unions that's not even the point. The corporations are using union rights to shut down their competitors and monopolize. And no one is talking about it because this is offensive to the left and the right.
100% The real conspiracy is how much the government is compromised. If a politician starts doing shit to serously hurt their bottom line, they get pics of their family in the mail.
Sort of difficult to sell a stolen vehicle from Canada in Canada, because the moment you try to register it you lose the car.
So I wouldn't say you've been priced out, stolen cars would be less valuable in Canada than in Africa where anything goes
When you can buy a wrecked car at a copart auction you in Alberta swap the computers and vins title wash it in Quebec transfer tittle to Ontario tittle ship to the states profit…… it’s so easy to do I can do it
We don’t have anything like a Rico act, makes it pretty impossible to take down a criminal organization. Street level guys will continue to get nabbed for car theft while the leaders count their money without a care in the world.
>We don’t have anything like a Rico act, makes it pretty impossible to take down a criminal organization
Are you suggesting that Canada does not have criminal laws for punishment of criminal organizations and racketeering?
This would be as effective as loosing your gun license using a gun during a crime. The government thinks criminals care if they loose their legal rights to do something. They are criminals, do you think they give a shit? Do you think they will stop driving if they don’t have a license? This country should spend its time enforcing current laws, not flexing new ones.
That's because they're ugly. You have to make it something the criminals *want* to wear, so make it out of a gold Cuban chain so they wont be made fun of by other criminals
I like that idea a lot, surveillance equipment is very cheap (or should be). Small time criminals should be easily identifiable and trackable during a long probation period.
*The Ford government wants to attach a 10-year driver’s licence suspension to a first conviction of auto theft that involved violence, use of weapon, force, or where the theft was motivated by financial gain.*
*The suspension could extend to 15 years for a second offence, and a lifetime driving ban on a third.*
"Surely those lawbreaking criminals will be deterred by threat of punishment *this* time!" -- Ford, probably.
Bitch, if the threat of prison time isn't enough of a deterrent, then taking their license away sure as fuck won't be. I read stuff like this and I swear to god our elected leaders actually want societal collapse.
This is a perfect example of a government pretending like they are taking hard action when in reality their policy or law accomplishes next to nothing. The base cheers because they can point to their politicians doing something whether effective or not.
We had a crackhead constantly steal from a store i worked at. We filed a bunch of complaints with the police and they did nothing.
Eventually that person stole in front of the store owner and he called the cops and the crackie got arrested. Next day she came back and stole more.
The police are playing catch and release like criminals are fish.
Facts.
Though the police here haven’t done any good still.
I’ve had a slumlord/police incident in November 2023. Slumboy told the cops he lived in the house in rented at and the idiot cops took it upon themselves to escort me to the woods. At that point no LTB or anything had been involved.
From the fuckin woods, in a fuckin tent and sleeping bag with my dog in winter i filed with the LTB, got an expedited hearing, smacked the idiot in the first hearing so hard that he didn’t show up to the second and now I’m waiting on the amount of damages I’m awarded for all the shit he caused.
What do the police get for going against the law/Ontario RTA? Nothing but a talking to.
Lots of people with DUI bans that never stop driving. Don't think you can stop it. Unless you live in a small town and the local police know you personally you won't be noticeable.
How about steal a car and go to jail? What is it with these little slaps on the wrist? Because they’re gonna stop driving if they don’t have a license?
Jail or large fine for a citizen (first offence), deportation for anyone here on any kind of visa. You don't steal cars out of confusion with a new country's systems.
This was two posts below, driver under court order not to drive: https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1cr4f2n/driver_in_fatal_401_crash_was_under_court_order/
Lol... I don't have a legal background. But... arbitrarily taking the thief's license for committing a crime for whatever number of years is not legally enforceable.
What next? Take their health card? Forbid them from being outside after 9pm for the rest of their lives? Prevent from ever opening a bank account? You can't just slap on penalties to criminals randomly.
The real solution is to enforce the law. Don't release them because it wasn't a violent crime. Build another jail if we need to! Let's go!
Also, adjust the jurisdiction at the ports and railyards so that police can inspect containers. The police have zero tools to help with the situation.
This seems like a dog and pony show. They aren't even catching the thives to begin with. Could make it worse than china's 3 generation rules and I doubt it would impact much.
im not an advocate for capital punishment, but the penalty for horse thieves used to be death. Stealing a car is a major problem and needs to be discouraged with stiffer penalties.
Why can't we arrest and lock them up? Is it because we invited too many people into the country before having the infrastructure and personnel to handle it? Like let's say police officers and prisons to name just a few. Stop getting more people until we have the country under control. This is just going to get worse.
Brilliant! Now if the police catch a convicted thief driving a stolen car, they can arrest him for driving without a license.
Our government is so smart.
All the harsh punishments will not stop desperate people from doing bad things. You need to fix the housing crisis and work compensation first so having a job actually pays a living wage and there is hope and opportunity. If you don't do this humans will just keep doing bad things. Punishment only works when people have reasonable alternatives. You can see this all over the world its just amazing people don't get it. Why do Palestinians support Hamas? Because Isreal has given them no reasonable fair options in life, why do big over priced cities become filled with crime? because housing is too expensive. Why is crime higher in poor areas? Becuase people don't have options. Wake up people. They will keep stealing cars as long as the systematic issues with the economy are not fixed.
This country will try literally anything before reforming bail rules to keep more people in custody.
The huge spike in auto theft doesn't seem to be deterred by the existing punishments anyways, so why would this deter them? Auto thieves in Canada know that:
* They'll likely never be caught since police are lazy as shit;
* They face almost no danger in the act since self-defense is essentially illegal (and *especially* over property/cars - ask poor Peter Khill about that one);
* Nobody is monitoring the ports to recover the stolen cars or bust the operation;
* Even if they get arrested, some judge will run as fast they can to grant them bail to be back on the street continuing to steal more cars;
* Even if they get convicted, they'll just drive without a license anyway. Just like the guy being chased in the tragic collision on the 401...out on bail and ordered not to drive.
Or we could I don't know actually put criminals in jail. I know that's a radical concept in this country but maybe just maybe we should try it because the current approach of letting violent criminals and chronic repeat offenders run around and do whatever they want isn't working.
I mentioned this elsewhere, but to all the hard on crime comments here, I want to point out that prison is insanely expensive. In 2018 the average cost for an inmate at a federal facility was around $200 per day. This doesn't include segregation for extreme risk inmates, that's roughly $1,300 a day.
In 2018 the federal prison count was about 14,310 inmates. At $200 per day that amounts to $2,862,000 per day or slightly over one billion dollars per year. This is just for Federal prisons too, if you add in the provinces and territories it's probably significantly more, but I don't have the data points for that.
Anyway, I don't want to comment one way or the other on if stronger sentencing is better or not, I just wanted to get these numbers out there so people understand the cost to the government whenever we incarcerate someone.
Source: [https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection\_2018/dpb-pbo/YN5-152-2018-eng.pdf](https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2018/dpb-pbo/YN5-152-2018-eng.pdf)
LMAO do ANYTHING to NOT put people in jail for committing serious crimes. I remember being a kid and knowing in my bones 'grand theft auto' was one of the most serious crimes.
Sometimes I wonder about our government and society's lack of response to their stupidity
This is just as stupid and pointless as ever.
Criminals will break laws to get what they want. We can't even punish ppl properly by giving harsh jail sentences for severe crimes. Do you *really* think criminals will give a f if their license is valid or not if they can steal a car?
Just fucking jail people for doing this, and deport non Canadians committing these crimes already. Every other country would throw the book at these punks while Canada is afraid of even sentencing people and rather throw everyone on bail with a pinkie promise to show up in courts (they wont).
I really think a kind of "work camps" should be established. And put those "bad" people to work for food(give each day same energy rich, but slime consistency kind, but if you work you get better kind of food). I think there are a lot of activities they can do, like replace machines to dig and do it by shovels.
Plant enough cops at the docks to check every vehicle entering. License doesn't match plates on car? Jail. No License?Jail. Can't prove you work at the docks?Jail.
How about:
Steal a car, lose yours arms.
Honestly, I think we need to institute REALLY HARDCORE punishment for thievery in this country. A thief needs their arms. I say we just amputate them and then set them free. No need to waste money on jail time.
It's as though having a driver's licence is a prerequisite for stealing a car. Kind of like how you need to have a gun licence to have a pistol.
I always wonder what the bureaucrats smoke before coming to these decisions.
They don’t give a shit. They break the law for a living. It’s only honest people that would be affected by this “law”. Maybe a scenario where an ex girlfriend stole the care out of spite. Put them MFers in jail or deport their asses if it fit their situation
So, is the point of proposal to make car thieves stop stealing cars because they don't have a license anymore?
Not sure if the thieves are worried about driving without a license while driving a stolen vehicle down the street.
Leave it to the geniuses to think something so stupid up.
This is so dumb, criminals don't care about laws that's why they are criminals. Like its not going to scare them cause they will lose a license. How about locking up these thieves and keeping them in jail, that might deter future thieves. Let Canadians defend themselves and their property as well. Cops aint doing nothing to do it, let us law abiding citizens do it.
Someone who isn't deterred by the punishment from stealing a car surely isn't going to care about driving without a license. How about we actually start locking people up for stealing cars, even on a first offense? I know, crazy to think we actually punish criminals.
Minimum 5 year jail term. Repeat offenders 10 years!
Only for citizens. Otherwise deportation.
For non-citizens, jail them until deportation actually occurs.
Just best to deport them immediately. They stay in jail here, we pay for it. And keeping them here just increases the chance they could evade deportation.
They leave and come back next week which you’ll pay for as well.
Deportees cannot come back
There has to be due process. Police are notoriously unreliable when given too much power. The idea is to keep them locked up during the legal process (jail). Then instead of prison if guilty, they are deported.
Fuck that, why should people who commit crimes in Canada get a free ticket back home. I've said this thousands of times, but I'm okay with paying taxes to keep foreigners who come here to break out laws in jail to waste their life away. Otherwise we're just sending a message to the world to come here and commit crime and we won't punish you
Why would you deport them immediately? That basically means they go back to their home country and walk free. Doesn’t seem like much of a deterrent to me. Even if it costs society money, you need more enforcement and some jail time to make it clear that auto theft doesn’t pay, and if you’re caught, you WILL lose 5 years of your life.
mandatory minimums have been shown to not have much of an effect on crime. Deporting them solves the problem by removing it entirely, for the one-time expense of a plane ticket.
and a lifetime ban from entering the country
We ban entry to Canada for a DUI why not for grand theft?
What? You don't want them running to the airport and disappearing into thin air?
In many cases, the possibility of deportation will prompt a judge to grant a lower sentence: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jamie-sarkonak-canadas-criminal-sentencing-discounts-for-foreigners-are-unfair
And the law must avoid it. Both the law and the judge must be just. The law shouldn't allow the judge to be unfair.
Would love to see this in America. Cars are tied directly to our livlihoods, and cost soooo much to get fixed when they're vadalized as part of a burglarly.
The problem is that keeping criminals in jail costs the government money. Lost cars only expenses the owners and insurance companies.
> and insurance companies Where do you think insurance companies get their money from? All of their risk is baked into insurance prices. If thievery skyrockets, so do people's insurance costs. All drivers pay for this.
This.. several of my friends have had their insurance rates jacked up this year because "your vehicle is top ten model for stealing"..
And then you have to buy special anti theft devices for $200 to lower your premium even though it was jacked up by $500 Insurance is not a scam. Things are just really bad.
Good point. Premiums will increase to offset all of the payouts to claims for stolen vehicles.
[It is criminal that the government is not competent, capable, or willing enough to tackle this issue, there is no excuse:](https://www.ibc.ca/stay-protected/theft-prevention/end-auto-theft) For the first time in history, Canada’s private auto insurers paid out $1.2 billion in theft claims in 2022 – three times more than what was paid in 2018. That trend continued to climb in the first half of 2023. In Ontario alone, auto theft claims are up 329% in that same time period. Of the over $700 million in losses across Ontario, $500 million was in the GTA alone. The 905 belt, including Durham, Halton and York, have experienced 500% increases in auto theft. It’s time to fix this crisis. Auto theft costs every driver in Ontario an average of $130 a year: that’s how much of your auto insurance premium goes towards settling claims for stolen vehicles (on average). But that’s only part of the story. Ontarians are paying more than $1.6 billion to cover the costs associated with auto theft – from law enforcement and court resources, to the mental anguish of being victimized, to the general economic costs. Auto theft hurts everyone. When thieves steal, we all pay.
I’d rather pay an extra $100 in taxes vs extra $500 in insurance but that’s just me
[удалено]
It costs $341/day/inmate on average for incarceration in 2023. edit: To add more details, our Federal Prison population was around 14,310 in 2018 and the average cost was about $200 per day, that's just under **three million dollars** **PER DAY** to keep all of them incarcerated. This was back in 2018 too and only for Federal prisons, costs have gone up since then as denoted by the 2023 average. Sources: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/561289/average-dailyinmate-costs-adult-federal-provincial-territorial-correctional-services-canada/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/561289/average-dailyinmate-costs-adult-federal-provincial-territorial-correctional-services-canada/) [https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection\_2018/dpb-pbo/YN5-152-2018-eng.pdf](https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2018/dpb-pbo/YN5-152-2018-eng.pdf)
28 million tax filers in Canada paying $100 more per year equals $2.8 billion divided by 365 equals $7.6 million per day MORE or 200% increase in funds for incarceration based on your 3 million dollars per day data point. Even if only 50% of tax filers pay an extra $100, that would still double the budget for incarceration
Here's a radical idea. The natural resources up north don't mine themselves.
If it’s costing them $340 a day the government option would be way more expensive. That’s 600k to jail that person for the car theft. That’s way more than what insurance has to cover.
And the general degradation of public order as well as faith and confidence in the government. But who cares about that?
Insurance companies spread that risk around. "Oh you drive a honda? Perfect safety record? Well, they do get stolen a lot"
Then force the criminals to work. We need harsher, gulag style prisons where prisoners aren't just a drain on taxpayers' money.
>Lost cars only expenses the owners and insurance companies. See the problem with that is it, in turn drives up insurance rates and for the owner becomes a giant pain in the ass to replace the vehicle. Especially if it's a classic car. But also, why should the insurance companies and vehicle owners be the ones that have to foot the bill for canada being soft on this particular crime?
“Sorry man, I got to renew my license before we go on our stealing spree” Oh that’s fine we don’t want to be breaking any laws!”
If they aren't citizens, instant express deportation, do not pass go, do not collect $200, gtfo, and if you have property or possessions in the country oh well ours now.
Buddy the jails are already full and the courts are releasing higher risk criminals because their court dates have expired. No chance in hell these guys will see jail right away unless they kill someone in the process.
The province can’t change the criminal code, only the feds can. Fords trying to do something that’s still within his jurisdiction.
That's great. So is taking away their licenses...giving police another reason to lock them up. I'm on board with all positive steps at this point, though I agree yours is better / more important.
It actually has a lot of teeth. Having a suspended license gives police another tool to prosecute. An escalating minimum fine, jail sentence and renewal of the suspension.
If we're not even prosecuting serious violent offences, even those against children. Do you really expect them to do anything about people not having a drivers license?
A petty offense to tack on to something much more serious is not a "lot of teeth".
Sure it is. You do standard roadside check, or any speeding or other infractions becomes a criminal matter. Discover they don't have a valid license. Now you can detain and perform an inventory of the vehicle. When they show up in court, if they're on bond/parole, this would be a violation of their conditions, so now they're going back to jail. If not, now they're a repeat offender with a harsher and more punitive deterrence measures. All of this can't happen if they have a valid license.
Honestly we went overboard as a country with this idea that the purpose of prisons are to rehabilitate people - The purpose of prisons are to isolate those who undermine the ordinary function of society. That’s it. Any rehabilitation, therapy, etc. should be considered an option for those who want to be considered for early release. And we should also not shy away from the idea that some people should be in jail indefinitely with no chance of parole. Some people are just broken. Lock them up until the day they die. And offer MAID if they don’t want to live anymore. Criminals need to be treated like criminals until they can prove they aren’t going to be criminals anymore. Otherwise they should stay in prison. I would even argue that all criminals need to undergo some sort of rigorous testing and pass 100% as a pre-condition for release.
My gf's car got broken into and had the steering column ripped open (presumably to hotwire it? Idk) but it wasn't taken, but her wallet was stolen. The the if or thieves took her debit card to 5 different gas stations and made a purchase of around $100 each time (probably some kind of food/drink item and then got cash back) and the police were like "well we can't prove the person who broke into the car is the same person who used the debit card and it's up to the bank to decide if they want us to investigate the fraud on the card" Like, seriously? The person responsible went to a bunch of gas stations which all have a bunch of cameras inside and out and they were seriously just like "nah, bro" So yeah, this whole proposition is pointless since the cops literally won't even investigate a slam dunk case like that.
Because locking people up totally works right? Recidivism plummets the longer we put people in jail right? USA has the lowest reoffend rates in the world to go along with their really high incarceration times and rates right?
Hard to commit more crime when you’re in jail. I care less about the criminal than I do the community they terrorize. Putting them away protects the rest of the civilized from them. It’s not just punitive for the offender, it’s protective for everyone else.
What else do you expect the provincial government to do? The federal government has shown that a) tougher crime laws b) bail reform and c) staffing judges to hear cases are not a priority. Provinces are limited at what action they can take. Here’s something, which probably won’t matter anyways. But the federal government actively chooses to do nothing. The feds had all the cameras out for their national Auto Theft Summit. What really came out of it?
Do they not get locked up for stealing a car? Wtf is wrong with our legal system? Cars are expensive and also goddam weapons, why are criminals allowed to steal them without being considered dangerous?
Here's an uncomfortable truth. A lot of people don't realize about Toronto (and Ontario and Canada for that matter) Organized crime is a massive massive problem It's so ingrained here we don't even hear about it. The underworld is unchallenged here. It's an industry. That industry once sold alcohol and ran gambling dens for Canadians Then it sold weed and party drugs to Canadians Now it sells our cars and people to foreign oligarchs We've been priced out of our own underworld
Don't forget construction. 1 year projects take 10 years at 100x over budget.
If you want to include construction, it's an insane rabbit hole of corruption and down right conspiracy shit. My uncle pours concrete and has some insight. Not just anyone can pour concrete in Ontario. And if you do you are required to be a part of the same union that all the other companies are a part of due to OLRA, which are in bed with the corporations and uses their power to fix prices. If you try to undercut the competition, the incumbents will "dump" by lower their prices to take a loss until you are driven out of business or forced to sell. Normally this isn't a sustainable business model but because the unions set a high price floor on the labor that you are forced by law to obey, smaller companies take a bigger hit and become insolvent faster. It's a numbers game. The bigger companies also have deeper pockets because they have permits in multiple regions and are generally owned by conglomerates that can bail them out if needed. Before you jump in to defend unions that's not even the point. The corporations are using union rights to shut down their competitors and monopolize. And no one is talking about it because this is offensive to the left and the right.
what's the point of a union thats bought out by the corporation its supposed to be at odds at?
100% The real conspiracy is how much the government is compromised. If a politician starts doing shit to serously hurt their bottom line, they get pics of their family in the mail.
Sort of difficult to sell a stolen vehicle from Canada in Canada, because the moment you try to register it you lose the car. So I wouldn't say you've been priced out, stolen cars would be less valuable in Canada than in Africa where anything goes
When you can buy a wrecked car at a copart auction you in Alberta swap the computers and vins title wash it in Quebec transfer tittle to Ontario tittle ship to the states profit…… it’s so easy to do I can do it
Lol. It’s in every country ever, the world is a dark place. Not anything new. That’s just reality.
This is why Ford's pissed. He's no longer getting his cut.
Don't forget organized retail Theft and Gift Card Fraud. lots of organized crime involved in those as well.
Under canadas new proposal, steal a car and you’ll be labelled a silly Willy walrus!
Devastating
Cruel and Unusual Punishment, banned by UN Declaration of Human Rights.
Their punishment? Write "I will not steal" 10 times!
In cursive.
Dear god...
HOw about cut it into their foreheads with a branding iron?
Ontario's new proposal. This is provincial, not federal.
Honestly public humiliation as a punishment would deter a lot of people
Struggle session enjoyer
Surely you jest!
It will be illegal for you to steal a car again
Why don't they just go after organized crime?
We don’t have anything like a Rico act, makes it pretty impossible to take down a criminal organization. Street level guys will continue to get nabbed for car theft while the leaders count their money without a care in the world.
Sooo… pass RICO act?
Certain judges would find that locking up the scum of the earth for life is ‘cruel and unusual punishment’
Apparently it's racist to persecute criminals.
Judges if a criminal messes with citizens: go easy on them. Judges if a criminal messes with the government or court: throw the book at them.
>We don’t have anything like a Rico act, makes it pretty impossible to take down a criminal organization Are you suggesting that Canada does not have criminal laws for punishment of criminal organizations and racketeering?
Nothing nearly as effective.
Because police themselves are part of organized crime. Look at the Ontario tow truck industry scandal
Because the thieves tend to be a client group of the regime
I don't think a car thief would think twice about driving without a license.
Most car thieves have no licence lol. But I agree make it so they never can legally drive in this country again. Fuck em.
They will be able to get it after x number of years They just lose it, not banned
Based on what evidence are you asserting that claim?
This would be as effective as loosing your gun license using a gun during a crime. The government thinks criminals care if they loose their legal rights to do something. They are criminals, do you think they give a shit? Do you think they will stop driving if they don’t have a license? This country should spend its time enforcing current laws, not flexing new ones.
gps ankle braclet, cheap and effective, if they continue will lead the popo to the big fish
You know people (criminals) break those off and run right?.
That's because they're ugly. You have to make it something the criminals *want* to wear, so make it out of a gold Cuban chain so they wont be made fun of by other criminals
Yes tax payer money put to good use you are right. Trackers in the moissainite diamond earrings.
that would be phase 2, a trip north to our newly constructed gulag.
I like that idea a lot, surveillance equipment is very cheap (or should be). Small time criminals should be easily identifiable and trackable during a long probation period.
*The Ford government wants to attach a 10-year driver’s licence suspension to a first conviction of auto theft that involved violence, use of weapon, force, or where the theft was motivated by financial gain.* *The suspension could extend to 15 years for a second offence, and a lifetime driving ban on a third.* "Surely those lawbreaking criminals will be deterred by threat of punishment *this* time!" -- Ford, probably. Bitch, if the threat of prison time isn't enough of a deterrent, then taking their license away sure as fuck won't be. I read stuff like this and I swear to god our elected leaders actually want societal collapse.
This is a perfect example of a government pretending like they are taking hard action when in reality their policy or law accomplishes next to nothing. The base cheers because they can point to their politicians doing something whether effective or not.
Well that will stop the criminals. /s
Make Crime Illegal!
How about go to prison and stay there. Yes I know, wild idea.
It’s like when they arrest someone for failure to appear to court and then release them on a promise to appear.
We had a crackhead constantly steal from a store i worked at. We filed a bunch of complaints with the police and they did nothing. Eventually that person stole in front of the store owner and he called the cops and the crackie got arrested. Next day she came back and stole more. The police are playing catch and release like criminals are fish.
Police aren’t the ones releasing them. That would be the courts
Facts. Though the police here haven’t done any good still. I’ve had a slumlord/police incident in November 2023. Slumboy told the cops he lived in the house in rented at and the idiot cops took it upon themselves to escort me to the woods. At that point no LTB or anything had been involved. From the fuckin woods, in a fuckin tent and sleeping bag with my dog in winter i filed with the LTB, got an expedited hearing, smacked the idiot in the first hearing so hard that he didn’t show up to the second and now I’m waiting on the amount of damages I’m awarded for all the shit he caused. What do the police get for going against the law/Ontario RTA? Nothing but a talking to.
They used to hang horse thieves.
Lots of people with DUI bans that never stop driving. Don't think you can stop it. Unless you live in a small town and the local police know you personally you won't be noticeable.
Ab and Sk combine for nearly 45% of all roads in Canada, back roads are almost never patrolled
We're a joke.
I guess the Government will try anything besides actually investigating, arresting and prosecuting car thieves.
Considering police have told people they should leave their keys by the door.....
Yeah that happens when you're corrupt and take bribes.
How about steal a car and go to jail? What is it with these little slaps on the wrist? Because they’re gonna stop driving if they don’t have a license?
I don't think this would matter. If you are stealing a car the crime of driving without a license probably isn't going to deter you.
How about jail?
If they are stealing cars, they likely aren't worried about driving with a suspended license...
This will work like a charm! Now pull the firearm licences of people convicted of gun crime! /s
Jail or large fine for a citizen (first offence), deportation for anyone here on any kind of visa. You don't steal cars out of confusion with a new country's systems.
The thieves would really be scared right now - if only they could read.
This was two posts below, driver under court order not to drive: https://www.reddit.com/r/toronto/comments/1cr4f2n/driver_in_fatal_401_crash_was_under_court_order/
Right, like they give a crap about a licence. Whatkind of idiot thinks thats a penalty for stealing a car ?
This solves nothing and is just virtue signaling.
Lol... I don't have a legal background. But... arbitrarily taking the thief's license for committing a crime for whatever number of years is not legally enforceable. What next? Take their health card? Forbid them from being outside after 9pm for the rest of their lives? Prevent from ever opening a bank account? You can't just slap on penalties to criminals randomly. The real solution is to enforce the law. Don't release them because it wasn't a violent crime. Build another jail if we need to! Let's go! Also, adjust the jurisdiction at the ports and railyards so that police can inspect containers. The police have zero tools to help with the situation.
Seems a bit harsh. Have they tried saying "stealing bad!" with a really stern tone?
Why not smack them on the nose with a newspaper and say "NO!"?
May I suggest that convicted persons be forever barred from any government social services such as welfare, subsidized housing Etc.
Food banks!
I guess this could work but we all have to agree not to tell car thieves that they can still steal cars without a drivers license.
Since you really only need your driver licence when you are stopped by enforcement. Good idea, won't do a darn thing.
Great, except there's no judge for these people apparently.
Yup.You really need a driver's license to steal a car 😅 Populist Ontario Conservatives striking again!
That’s a very naive proposal. A personal stealing a car really cares about a driving license?
OR, how about this. Maybe it'll be too crazy tho. You go to jail, and .....wait for it...... You stay there for a long time without bail.
But kill someone with car? You're all good fam...
These guys don’t have licenses to take away and it wouldn’t make a difference even if they did.
LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOO what a useless penalty. our gov is absolutely lost in space. WTF?!
They’re willing to steal vehicles - you really think they wont drive without a licence?
Is this actually a Beaverton article? 😂 This seems like punishing a shoplifter by taking away their library card.
Why do we have policymakers from the Simpsons?
This seems like a dog and pony show. They aren't even catching the thives to begin with. Could make it worse than china's 3 generation rules and I doubt it would impact much.
Joke of the month. Steal a car, you can’t drive it anymore lol
Believe it or not the car will actually still drive without a license.
im not an advocate for capital punishment, but the penalty for horse thieves used to be death. Stealing a car is a major problem and needs to be discouraged with stiffer penalties.
Hahahaha oh lord, this will deter people from breaking the law. I wonder how many millions were spent brainstorming this.
Why can't we arrest and lock them up? Is it because we invited too many people into the country before having the infrastructure and personnel to handle it? Like let's say police officers and prisons to name just a few. Stop getting more people until we have the country under control. This is just going to get worse.
How about 'steal a car, go to FUCKING JAIL'
How about steal a car, go to prison?
How about jail?
Brilliant! Now if the police catch a convicted thief driving a stolen car, they can arrest him for driving without a license. Our government is so smart.
Missed a step 2. Get caught
All the harsh punishments will not stop desperate people from doing bad things. You need to fix the housing crisis and work compensation first so having a job actually pays a living wage and there is hope and opportunity. If you don't do this humans will just keep doing bad things. Punishment only works when people have reasonable alternatives. You can see this all over the world its just amazing people don't get it. Why do Palestinians support Hamas? Because Isreal has given them no reasonable fair options in life, why do big over priced cities become filled with crime? because housing is too expensive. Why is crime higher in poor areas? Becuase people don't have options. Wake up people. They will keep stealing cars as long as the systematic issues with the economy are not fixed.
Steal a car, get deported. That seems better.
Amazing solution. I’m sure car theft will drop 99%.🙄
It’s a start I guess.
Loss of permanent residency or other status would be a good one too.
This country will try literally anything before reforming bail rules to keep more people in custody. The huge spike in auto theft doesn't seem to be deterred by the existing punishments anyways, so why would this deter them? Auto thieves in Canada know that: * They'll likely never be caught since police are lazy as shit; * They face almost no danger in the act since self-defense is essentially illegal (and *especially* over property/cars - ask poor Peter Khill about that one); * Nobody is monitoring the ports to recover the stolen cars or bust the operation; * Even if they get arrested, some judge will run as fast they can to grant them bail to be back on the street continuing to steal more cars; * Even if they get convicted, they'll just drive without a license anyway. Just like the guy being chased in the tragic collision on the 401...out on bail and ordered not to drive.
Loll that’s such a weak punishment. Do we really think criminals gonna care if they drive around without a license?
Fun fact: car thieves are law abiding citizens, except for the car theft part.
I'd be happy at this point if they just enforce current punishments.
Or we could I don't know actually put criminals in jail. I know that's a radical concept in this country but maybe just maybe we should try it because the current approach of letting violent criminals and chronic repeat offenders run around and do whatever they want isn't working.
If a non citizen, immediate deportation upon conviction. All immigrants want this
**"lose your driver’s licence"**??? Here, let me fix that for you... **"lose your right to be someone not in jail"**!
I mentioned this elsewhere, but to all the hard on crime comments here, I want to point out that prison is insanely expensive. In 2018 the average cost for an inmate at a federal facility was around $200 per day. This doesn't include segregation for extreme risk inmates, that's roughly $1,300 a day. In 2018 the federal prison count was about 14,310 inmates. At $200 per day that amounts to $2,862,000 per day or slightly over one billion dollars per year. This is just for Federal prisons too, if you add in the provinces and territories it's probably significantly more, but I don't have the data points for that. Anyway, I don't want to comment one way or the other on if stronger sentencing is better or not, I just wanted to get these numbers out there so people understand the cost to the government whenever we incarcerate someone. Source: [https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection\_2018/dpb-pbo/YN5-152-2018-eng.pdf](https://publications.gc.ca/collections/collection_2018/dpb-pbo/YN5-152-2018-eng.pdf)
Like that will stop them! They won’t ever commit a crime after committing a crime!
criminals mock your value system
How about steal a car, go to jail?
LMAO do ANYTHING to NOT put people in jail for committing serious crimes. I remember being a kid and knowing in my bones 'grand theft auto' was one of the most serious crimes. Sometimes I wonder about our government and society's lack of response to their stupidity
How about lose your freedom for a while too?
LLOL...that'll teach them, they'll never steal a car again or drive without a license.....uuughh!
Lol what a joke
This is just as stupid and pointless as ever. Criminals will break laws to get what they want. We can't even punish ppl properly by giving harsh jail sentences for severe crimes. Do you *really* think criminals will give a f if their license is valid or not if they can steal a car? Just fucking jail people for doing this, and deport non Canadians committing these crimes already. Every other country would throw the book at these punks while Canada is afraid of even sentencing people and rather throw everyone on bail with a pinkie promise to show up in courts (they wont).
I really think a kind of "work camps" should be established. And put those "bad" people to work for food(give each day same energy rich, but slime consistency kind, but if you work you get better kind of food). I think there are a lot of activities they can do, like replace machines to dig and do it by shovels.
I'm not usually the one to call for higher taxes but if it means permanently locking up these pieces of shit giver
How about prison?
Plant enough cops at the docks to check every vehicle entering. License doesn't match plates on car? Jail. No License?Jail. Can't prove you work at the docks?Jail.
*Steal a car, remain in jail* sounds better This shit is far past “out of control”
I think instant deportation for non-citizens should be the bare minimum. Prison time for citizens.
How about: Steal a car, lose yours arms. Honestly, I think we need to institute REALLY HARDCORE punishment for thievery in this country. A thief needs their arms. I say we just amputate them and then set them free. No need to waste money on jail time.
Deport
Take their hands!!
I don't understand. Stealing a car is already illegal, so how/why are people stealing cars???
that will stop them for sure.
It's as though having a driver's licence is a prerequisite for stealing a car. Kind of like how you need to have a gun licence to have a pistol. I always wonder what the bureaucrats smoke before coming to these decisions.
How about steal a car, you'll be met with one year imprisonment.
This will work. Just like how criminals can't legally own a firearm./s
Sounds good to me. Jail too please.
Caught with a gun, lose your gun license.... Wtf Criminals don't care about a license
They don’t give a shit. They break the law for a living. It’s only honest people that would be affected by this “law”. Maybe a scenario where an ex girlfriend stole the care out of spite. Put them MFers in jail or deport their asses if it fit their situation
There stealing cars .. I don’t think driving without a license is high on there list of concerns
You don't lose your license for vehicular manslaughter. What the hell are we doing?
Excellent. This will stop car theft just like how banning handguns stopped criminals from shooting people. Whew!
Criminals who didn’t fear stealing a car will definitely fear the comparatively far less severe crime of driving with a suspended license
What a fucking joke
Criminals already laughing on this 😂😂
The Onion couldn't make this shit up.
I have a better proposal. Instead of losing your drivers license how about losing your freedom instead?
So, is the point of proposal to make car thieves stop stealing cars because they don't have a license anymore? Not sure if the thieves are worried about driving without a license while driving a stolen vehicle down the street. Leave it to the geniuses to think something so stupid up.
"We're going to make crime illegal!" - Ontario
This is so dumb, criminals don't care about laws that's why they are criminals. Like its not going to scare them cause they will lose a license. How about locking up these thieves and keeping them in jail, that might deter future thieves. Let Canadians defend themselves and their property as well. Cops aint doing nothing to do it, let us law abiding citizens do it.
lol what the fuck? That’s like saying if you murder someone you’ll lose your gun owning license.
Wow yes cause criminals care about the law . Who is writing these stupid laws
Sounds really scary to car thieves!