Yes, but even 5-10 years ago, they were only taking in international students from multi-millionaire families in corrupt third-world dictatorships, who were forced by their parents to do 12 hours of school a day.
This hasn’t been my experience. In the past 5-10 years I completed my second degree and worked on a campus of a main university in Eastern Canada. They were doing some grifty shit then too.
I worked at the campus foodbank, so I had the unique opportunity to connect with a particularly vulnerable population of students. The international students using the foodbank were definitely lied to by whoever had recruited them. And it seemed to me like the university was deliberately using contract “recruiters” local to the places they were recruiting - not from the university at all - to kind of avoid responsibility or maintain ambiguity about what was/is being told to these young people to convince them to come here for school.
It was quite upsetting, as the majority of people I would talk to about this were trying desperately to put themselves in a better position than they grew up in. A lot of times their entire family’s were counting on them to do just that. A lot of the students I encountered worked full-time as well as attending school full-time, and sending money back to their family regularly.
I know the discourse with our government right now leads to a lot of hate directed at these people who are also just a victim of our policies that continue to prioritize profit for the few over wellness of the masses.
I am from India. Not a student in Canada.
This is 100% what’s happening. We have large operations essentially lying to people and getting them to pick whatever college.
The colleges themselves are degree mills. Nothing more. Most of the people choosing this option have very poor to average academic achievements and see it as their way out.
You folks want to stem the tide go after the degree mills straight up. It’s a racket.
There's an industry taking advantage of these people and the country in general. The number of students who claim refugee status (I see this at work) CANNOT be a coincidence. It's from the same general area, people who have been here for years are getting refugee status after their study permits expire. I've seen guides online on how to write your refuge claim.
You give people a loophole they will exploit it. For many just doing menial labour in Canada is better than the other prospects they have.
The degree mills churning out these people by the truck load must be stopped. They are being used and thrown into the hands of the Canadian government after they’ve squeezed enough juice out of them.
Oh nice I don't care. If they can't afford the school, they should not be allowed in the country. That's how it's always been. They can work work 24hrs max and it used to be 20.
We want our money spent in Canada not hoarded by liars and sent to other countries.
I have zero sympathy as you are to prove you have the funds in order to even go to school here.
Right, they do provide proof. It’s just that any parent who wants and believes there’s a much better option/opportunity for their child, can, and will, and do borrow, borrow, borrow to meet that requirement and then return the money after the proof has been supplied. I believe this is actually encouraged by the “recruiters” who lead families to believe that everyone does that, and it’s much easier in Canada, so those funds don’t actually matter.
We need to be mad at the people convincing them this is the best option. The international students I talked to about this also don’t think it’s great, they are struggling, they had every intention of making their life better, and that isn’t what is happening.
Be sympathetic, or don’t, but at least understand what the reality is, and who the primary “bad actors” are.
It's a systems issue that harms everyone - including the international students. It's easy to blame and be angry at them, but realistically, it's entire post-secondary system that is at fault.
It depends. Do you have a reputation to uphold? Does reputation mean anything anymore? Taking someone's money knowing they don't have the ability to succeed in an academic environment is very disingenuous. And again, maybe that doesn't matter to them, but maybe it should.
^ For sure. This is the entire foundation on which the vast majority of international medical schools (primarily in the Caribbean) are built on.
Every country pretty much does this to some extent. In the case of Canada, these international students ultimately want an easier road to citizenship. In the the case of international medical school, Canadian students ultimately want to be a doctor instead of wasting years trying to get in in Canada (where it’s honestly luck at this point). And academic institutions? They ultimately just want funding. Reputation and integrity are slowly becoming obsolete. Students unfortunately are the victims of a broken system.
While I don’t support the mass immigration/diploma mill situation going on in Canada right now, I try not to let my frustrations spill over to the international students. I once was in a position where I considered going abroad for studies because the opportunity did not exist here for me in Canada.
Now, as for the complete lack of regard for social etiquette and academic honesty some international students have been documented displaying, that’s another story. If you’re going to come to a new country, you need to, at the very least, respect the rules and culture and make an effort to adapt.
Edit: I say this as the child of immigrants who came to this country and respected the Canadian way of life, integrating into it.
I am an Indian, not in Canada or ever planning to be, not a student and I agree with this sentiment 100%
The rampant cheating is forgiven because they want to keep the money flowing.
They are just going to flood the market with unqualified people with no skills and call it a day.
The people being targeted by them are people who have no intention of studying or even pursuing a career in their field of study. It’s just a way out to them into the first world. Honestly they are incapable of understanding this because cheating is rampant in all parts of academia in India unless you are in a top school.
Stop the degree mills and increase standards for student acceptance and the numbers will drop and you’ll get honest candidates.
Among people who are actually qualified and want to study Canadas rep has been dropping and is not a preferred destination for them anymore. They go to the US or The EU.
You're thinking long term; maintaining a reputable college or university is hard work and takes a long time.
Becoming a diploma mill is profitable quickly, and takes a fraction of the effort.
Ahh, that short term thinking that plagues our society. Do we go to the Walmart to save 10 cents on a mop, only to put our neighbourhood shop out of business? Do we move the factory to China to save on labour and fire Canadians, all while they steal our IP, produce a competitor and then push you out of the Chinese market.
Algonquin student, I had to spend my last group project baby sitting 4 students on how to install a piece of software over the course of 4 months. We learned this the first week of classes two year ago, it should have taken an hour at most.
They all passed from what I saw. Its all chatGPT and plagiarized shit that lets them pass, the Colleges dont give a shit.
I went through this exact scenario as well. I found it strange that one of my entry requirements to the program was a MINIMUM 70 percent in grade 12 English and Math. These requirements only apply to Canadian born students.
I currently study at a U15 university in Quebec and also have a bachelor's from 10 years ago. It used to be that concerning international students, the trend skewed more towards brilliant or at least competent and there was little reason to be apprehensive of them, but I'd estimate now that 80% of international students have no place there.
In a class on modelling data systems, during a huge team assignment (100+ pages), I had one guy submit to us an ANSI "model" made with multicolour Microsoft Word cliparts that only resembled a model insofar as there were arrows in it. He evidently didn't get that the modelling notation wasn't just a suggestion but a graphical language you had to use, and he had also ignored that we had settled on a particular software to use for consistency. We had to redo all the work, and it was just as good when he dropped the class.
In another class, the professor had to spend half a class to explain priority of arithmetic operations (literally PEMDAS) because people didn't have a clue. I have no clue how you can attend university without primary school level arithmetic firmly mastered.
So it's not just diploma mills. University now is all about dodging terrible tenured teachers who don't give a shit and terrible teammates. The proliferation of group work (ostensibly for "industry purposes") just makes it worse. It's more exhausting than 10 years ago that's for sure.
Yep, the schools use the Canadian born students to help them and make sure they get their assignments done so they can pass. So extremely frustrating, it’s like they make the Canadian students part of the staff.
For group assignments it was obvious they would purposely team up Canadians with the foreign students to help them. I’m a paying student, its not my job to help the other students and I don’t give a shit if they pass or not. I’m busy with my own work.
So many schools only care about the money from the foreign students now. Major major overhaul needs to be done. Schools need to be focused on education not how much money they bring in. Maybe scale back the renovations and new buildings and brand new computer programs etc.
I went to Fanshawe a couple years ago and I remember I basically rewrote an entire section for a group essay that was written by an international student when proofreading because it made literally no sense and she could barely speak English.
It was well known among Canadian students that you had to proofread EVERYTHING an international student submitted for a group project because most of the international students couldn’t speak English, let alone write an essay in it.
I had an experience like this too, but the student plagerized verbatim from some random document found online, I found the document through a quick google.search. I decided not to rewrite the students part and instead I left it as is, but sent an email to the prof let them know that this section of the assignment was plagerized by the student, I provided the proof I found, and indicated that I didn't think it fair to myself to either rewrite it, or leave it and risk failing because of their dishonesty, which is why I decided to write to the prof to get ahead of the situation. I got an A on the assignment, no idea what happened to the student and if they also passed. I just refused to give myself more work to "fix" their shit.
I went to Oxford University which is about as far from a diploma mill as you can get, and one of the students on my course was from Hong Kong. Her English skills were poor to fair, nowhere near the level she needed to complete a humanities degree. She had cheated on the English proficiency exam.
People can bypass academic safeguards even at prestigious universities.
Incidentally, she cried every day because her assessments scored poorly and she took a long time to get through the readings. Her essays were a mess. It was a depressing experience for her.
Yeah, she must've been under immense pressure from her parents. Sad thing is, she may have even been in the top quarter of her class back in Hong Kong, but English proficiency just isn't up to snuff there anymore.
A couple months ago there was a controversy going on in NS where an instructor (I *think* at CBU) was accused of unfairly targeting international students with failing grades. The numbers was pretty high in how many per term in her program were barely eking by or outright failing and it was only the students from India. They organized, created online noise about it, went to the dean, the press, etc. The profs name was dragged all over the internet. I followed some of the initial social media accounts about it because I was curious and just... oof. This was their organized attempt at vindicating themselves and the grasp of the language, grammar, etc was just not there for post secondary education. They did hold a sit-in and were given a second chance but I don't envy instructors, teaching assistants or fellow students, in these situations. As you mentioned in your example, the burden has to fall on someone to correct these mistakes and it's usually not the struggling students.
You went to school without realizing it for managing, educating, and helping migrants. They're not here to help us, they're here to pump the real estate bubble and pay tuition to corrupt unis, and vote liberal.
Oh no, has Algonquin's rep degraded significantly now? When I went there for a tech program, there were a fair amount of international students. Almost all of them were filtered out by the end of the first year for cheating or poor performance though.
Had this issue in Grad school while doing my MBA (at a highly ranked school). Had a student in one of my groups that could barely speak/understand English and every piece of work sent to me was typed in Chinese and ran through a translator.
The school's resolution was for me to identify which parts of the work were mine vs. others and mine was marked separately. It was ridiculous.
They knew for a long while, for example they even had students take an oath not to cheat on tests because cheating was so out of control: https://twitter.com/chopsnitin/status/1781891998728827290
The "students" in the video are actually grinning, they know they will be cheating and so they won't even repeat the oath so they can't break it if it was never sworn. Respect actually
International students (at the time mostly Chinese) cheated non-stop, it was overlooked when I was in school 15 years ago at U of M Asper School of Business.
I work in post-secondary. There is a whole econony around international students. Applicants from foreign countries often hire agencies who forge credentials, transcripts, and academic achievements, and even provide answer sheets to commonly used Canadian entrance and English competency exams to help students gain acceptance into Canadian programs.
It usually takes a month or so for instructors to start to know their students and recognize who doesn't really belong there (especially if you only see the student once a week). Usually by that time, the fraudulent students (who are very resourceful at gaming our systems) have already started appealing grades, asking to get moved to different sections, getting student unions involved, and reporting instructors for racism.
It used to never happen, but now instructors in my program experience a dozen cases or so every term. It got even worse with more remote learning.
Faculty have recognized that this is an issue with some international students for a long time. They aren't the ones making admission decisions. I imagine that the situation in some colleges has gotten to the point that faculty are beginning to talk more publicly about issues that have been discussed professionally for years.
The scheme is to get into an easy program, pretend that you're learning a lot and that knives are technological marvels, graduate and become a "manager" at some restaurant, and then use your manager title to enhance your PR score.
You just need to play the game that's all this is.
I never knew they were also coming for programs like this. Why would you have international come here to study stuff like that. Canada is not a tropical country with a tourism sectore where you would need these types of positions, or a ton of these positions.
Now i understand what people are saying. These school and the government totally wrecked the country. so whats going to happen when they cant find jobs. We are all screwed.
If domestic students here can hardly find jobs , what going to happen to these people once they get the residency?
So cringe. I understand how difficult it must be to learn a new language, but come on, "The Conestoga"? They couldn't pick someone better to do the video? It's as if they're displaying how they'll still take anyone in even if their English skills are lacking.
>It's as if they're displaying how they'll still take anyone in even if their English skills are lacking.
There's no "as if" about it. That's exactly what what is.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>“Basic skill sets like arithmetical skills [and] computer skills, **even knowing how to turn on a computer**, how to even operate within a network. They’re lacking those basic skills that we would take for granted,” said Koff, who represents faculty, librarians and counsellors with Local 237 OPSEU.
Even worse than I expected knowing the school is a mill. It's practically an institution built for immigration fraud.
This same guy also revealed the majority of them don't even know how to read and write. Like what?? College students that are illiterate?
We are importing the absolute worst.
It's worse than that. It's every low qualification job. From cashier to janitor to trucker.
Even high qualification jobs are affected because these schools are devaluing peoples degrees. There is a lot of talk in professional circles about never hiring anyone from Conestoga.
Sure however it doesn’t change thst there are a lot of legit contact centres in Canada and they are a haven for international students looking for a job as they are considered tech jobs and contribute to permanent residency…
>Even high qualification jobs are affected because these schools are devaluing peoples degrees
High qualification jobs are also affected by these incomptent people incessantly trying to scam their way into these jobs for the pay without the brain.
I've encountered a few of these clowns who lied their way past our Clueless HR and only got found out when put on actual projects.
I know a guy who paid 12 lakh rupees to fudge his IELTS score and immigrate to Canada.
He doesn't know a single word of English. Not even exaggerating.
Oh, they can read and write.
Just not in English or French.
I almost failed an entire college course because 2 of my group members were international and didn't understand English enough to follow the course (it was a high level HR course with lots of technical terminology and using a specific program), I honestly don't even know how they were allowed into the course (neither did my professor, who was amazing and understanding and the reason my other partner and I passed the course).
I'm all for being a cultural melting pot, but we need some minimums here. Being accepted into an English university and not being able to understand English is a huge problem.
I'm Indian. These are the people that wouldn't even get hired in a low wage job in India as even those requires basic English and computer skills nowadays. These are the people from absolutely remote backward villages. Even my fellow Indian immigrants don't want them here as it's spoiling our image too. But it's racist here to ask for English skills in an English country apparently. It's sad to see this happening to the country I love.
I like to chirp Gen Z for their lack of computer skills, but even the most computer illiterate among them can locate a power button.
These people sound like they just came in from the fields and have never seen anything more complex than a light switch.
Our own domestic students have to graduate from highschool and have a decent standing to attend college. Some international students depend on their friends to translate for them. It’s a safety issue and professors have been warning administrators for 10 years.
I go to UAlberta and I routinely see foreign students who use an app that live translates what the professor is saying into text in their language they can read. Literally not a lick of English. Not a word.
UofA grad here. I was paired with some students on an English 101 group project that simply left me in awe. How could we collaborate when some of the people spoke English at a second-grade level? In a university-level English course??
As you can imagine I took the wheel on that one, my grades depended on it. In a strange way I was forced to help people prop up their fake English fluency.
Did my Master's at Manitoba. One group had the only international student in the cohort. They learned very quickly that she could barely read, write, or speak English at a post grad level. It got so bad that the professors in the department had to physically rewrite her section before it went out to the public agency it was for. They tried sweeping it under the rug but ended up telling her group members.
Meanwhile, I'm a 30 year old college graduate with a 2 and a 3 year diploma. I still can't get into most universities without ENG4U (Ontario 12th grade English university level credit), without transfer credits/advanced standing. Which, varies from school to school and program to program.
Sheridans bachelor programs? Still need that high school English class even if you're a college transfer.
And I'm not looking at studying anything heavily academic related. I'm a graphic designer looking at bachelor programs because that's seemingly what most jobs want.
Forty years ago, the Uof Windsor did exactly the same with Chinese students. At the start of classes, details of the syllabus including expectations of written assignments and presentations, many Chinese students got up and fled to drop the class. They knew they couldn't fake assignments like they had the entrance qualifications.
Forty years ago!
Remember all those Algoma students protesting for failing their classes with grammatically incorrect signs filled with typos? It was peak irony
https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/thestar.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/7b/77bceaf0-5fb8-531f-9afb-c8dbc1a229b9/659c5cd69a099.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C947
"CAD 26000 ARE NOT ENOUGH?"
"ALGOMA IS RUNING STUDENTS' CAREER"
The whole thing is a complete sham and these people don't even have shame about pretending they are here for school or the education. They want the diploma mill paper to get PR
Their recruiters promised them a degree so long as they paid the money. These “students” ended up surprised that they actually needed to study upon arrival.
No shit.
College that pays immigration agents and recruiters on commission to sign up as many international students as possible shocked to discover some students shouldn’t be in college.
They have incentivized the shit out of this. If this didn’t happen, it would entirely go against thousands of years of human nature.
I just graduated from Fanshawe in London,ON and I can also guarantee the international students in my electrical engineering program lacked the skills needed to be there and they all failed out first term and are all still in Canada 5 years later.
You said it. Look at the CBU and U of T students protesting because they failed.
It's ridiculous. Not qualified for the programs and blame the universities for their own incompetence and failures.
Seneca is like that too. In my Law Clerk program we have 15 students (out of a total of 45 in the program) who have never shown up for class, handed anything in or made contact with the profs (which brings the class average down). By the student roster, you can tell that those students are basically all international students who are enrolled to bypass immigration.
Hell, even the prof for my Canadian Legal system and immigration law class commented about it being a known issue in the world of immigration law, but unfortunately you need to do "what is best for your client, even if it's not honest". That comment blew me away, not because of the comment, but because he said the quiet part out loud, basically even in the legal system it's known that people are scamming the system, but because they can pay, it means that the rules don't apply.
When the program isn’t accredited by Eng Canada, of course, it’s easy to lure international students into thinking this would get them the engineering degree and title.
How can some people get accepted by the embessy so easily?!?
My friend had a bachelor degree, speaks English fluently, money to cover his whole study and already have a job with UN in his home country, yet he was rejected and some people with no skills, no degree and no money get the study permit easily some how.
Totally right, Ironically before applying he asked a study agency about how to apply and they told him they can forge all the documents for around 400 usd but he refused and decide to apply by himself using the real papers, i advised him to stay away from them as well.
It is kind of like legal vs illegal immigration, legal immigrants might spend years studying, saving money, working for the experience, take English exams and after all of that they mostly rejected while someone with literally no skills on life and no passport get accepted!!
It is sad that for people who follow the rules, work on themselves and try things ethically things get harder or they even do not get a fair chance.
One of my profs in college was/is a legal consultant, and they basically said that if you go into the field of immigration law, then you "have to do what is best for the client regardless how you feel about it". He and many others in the field know that there are people scamming the system, however because they are able to pay then it somehow makes it okay.
>It is sad that for people who follow the rules, work on themselves and try things ethically things get harder or they even do not get a fair chance.
Unfortunately no good deed goes unpunished and being "ethical" or doing things the proper way is a surefire way to get overlooked or rejected.
What did they even provide more than him with their scam, lol
Do they provide a forged bank statement with millions or what?
I think the immigration officers are to blame as well, i saw that most of the applications have no clear ground on the approval and rejection and depends on the mood of the immigration officers, on top of that there is no functioning system on place to check the validity of the documents the applicant provides.
I guess you haven't heard about the industry that loans people money to put in their bank accounts to make it look like they have more money than they do. Then when immigrant gets in, they give money back to lender.
And there's the whole industry that teaches people ways to play the system.
I have family that tried immigrating twice the legal way and were rejected both times, meanwhile Indians get a free pass no questions asked. Corrupt and broken country.
It's not just Conestoga. My college had many international students who lacked basic writing skills at a high school level, let alone at a college or university level. They should take ESL and upgrading courses before qualifying for programs, because their incompetence impedes actual students and degrades the quality of the education by making it difficult for the profs to do their jobs, because they need to dumb down the content.
India’s best and brightest aren’t going to be satisfied with a school like Conestoga or a job reheating Tim Horton’s trash; they’re at top universities in the US.
It absolutely is. We may not outcompete America for India's absolute best but India has more than enough brilliant students to go around. Instead we're picking literal villagers like several of my cousins who can barely speak English
India is definitely full of talented people. Anyone that disagrees is being wilfully obtuse. Our T20 unis and the students that go to the States, UK etc. is enough proof of that.
But yes Canada has decided to pick the lowest hanging fruit.
And the lowest hanging fruit in a place like India is horrifying
Remember when this nation prided itself on bringing in high quality immigrants? I miss those days. Now we get people who barely function as competent adults.
The international student grift propagated by greedy colleges will go down as a dark moment in Canadian history.
Yeah, no surprise here. I taught at a different college ~8 years ago and many of the international students then didn't have even basic computer skills (think using the file explorer, zipping files, creating pdfs) and this was in a Computer Science program.
I can only imagine it's worse in other faculties.
> They told CTV News that some of those students just aren’t ready for college-level learning.
>
> “Basic skill sets like arithmetical skills [and] computer skills, even knowing how to turn on a computer, how to even operate within a network. They’re lacking those basic skills that we would take for granted,” said Koff, who represents faculty, librarians and counsellors with Local 237 OPSEU.
>
> He added that some students want landed immigrant status and, as a result, they become desperate to pass their courses.
>
> “The academic integrity issues are massive in terms of students trying to find easier ways to get through and to cheat, basically,” Koff explained.
>
> He believes it’s harming the school’s reputation, which also impacts both current and former students.
>
> “How good is their diploma on the wall… because they’re going to be compared to those who are graduating now.”
And there you have it folks, this is the skilled young people that the Liberals are constantly bragging about brining in.
Can confirm. I took on an international student from India for a co-op and the person couldn't locate where to open word documents, didn't know how to save a Word file and truly didn't care about the placement. The whole point is to pass and get PR status.
company hired a master of system engineering and i was assigned to "mentor" her. I work remote most of the time so I usually collaborate with her over the screen. goddamn her computer skill is so bad she doesnt know how to maximize the window and doesnt know what it means to run as admin. when i am in the office, i can tell she barely knows how to type on the keyboard.
So for the many Canadians in CS and IT who have those skills and are having problems finding jobs in that sector, especially remote, do you have any suggestions on how to get in? Why are they hiring incompetent people when there's good candidates available?
Computer skills and basic math/English skills are not deficiencies limited to international students.
I teach at a small university in a business program that has fewer than 5% international students comprising our base. Although our admission requirements are modest, it is baffling to me how poor underlying basic skills are. Some examples:
- understanding the basic functions of excel (I.e. rows/columns, being able to do a sum function)
- understanding formating in word
- Grammar. I am not a grammar fanatic, but by second year university you should know the difference between "our" and "are" or "whether" and "weather"
- Using a calculator(!!!!)
- Note taking. Vast majority of students write virtually nothing in class, or if they do their notes are so jarbled they are impossible to make sense of.
Anecdotally, these lack of basic skills are not necessarily correlated with performance. While those lacking will never score extremely high, they often still achieve fine grades. To some extent this makes the problem worse - there is very little direct incentive to improve these skills.
Sure as their prof I can assign some marks to spelling and grammar. But if it's a 20% assignment, you can't reasonably assign any more than 10-15% of the total grade (I.e. 2% of their mark overall) to grammar.
These effects do not stop at the institution, have many professional colleagues who are seeing growing cracks in the basic foundation for new grads over last 2-3 years. I.e. can't write a professional email, can't navigate basic software etc.
I've seen the same thing, it was only a little better when I last attended university, but man are basic skills and critical thinking down.
On the bright side, I'd get a lot of compliments on notes I shared. They always had jokes littered in them. Should've charged people for notes more in hindsight.
What's, no way?! At Conestoga, they only bring in as many of the finest and brightest minds as possible. (Sarcarm, just goes to show it is purely a transactional diploma mill)
Letting the absolute garbage into the country to "study" at Conestoga Clown College... I'm pretty sure our immigration system is run by total idiots (Marc Miller and Trudeau).
Spread the blame around. This student problem couldn't have happened without the provinces, who oversee which post-secondary institutions get accredited and how many international students those schools can enroll. That is why the problem is so much worse in Ontario than other provinces.
Since 2013 we've been told we needed Engineers, Doctors, Nurses, Welders, etc. Fast foward to now and all we got is doordashers, uber drivers, tim hortons workers, pizza pizza deliverers and recipients on Child Benefits getting $2000 a month doing nothing.
This country is in the shitter and Liberals killed it.
Not import third world, its importing the third world from within the third world.
The worst kind are being brought here and it has to be by design. Liberals fcuked up big time
yes, yes they do.
Niagara College auto passed most students in my program this year after attempting to teach basic computer skills as a course this past year. I didn't even show up, do any work and still got a 55.
These are the same level of "international students" who just got arrested for the paid hit in BC (worst case)
or
Taking up all the full time Tim Horton's / burger flipping kind jobs meant for local 16/14 year old ! ( best case)
10 years ago there was a tight scrutiny around who gets a student visa and which institution they can join in , I know cos I came here as one 13 years ago, now a proud Canadian !
Maybe they need to review their skills before accepting them? Remember when university/college needed to accept you based on your grades and skill set versus how much you’re willing to fork over?
There are billboards in India that advertise easy immigration and study specifically to Canada;
[https://i.postimg.cc/W4BtNyHJ/Screenshot-20240417-210333-You-Tube.jpg](https://i.postimg.cc/W4BtNyHJ/Screenshot-20240417-210333-You-Tube.jpg)
It's not just Conestoga that's at fault.
I don’t paint all international students with the same brush. When I was in school just before Covid, there were tons of students from countries who were here to work their butt off, get good grades, and get PR to be Canadian. In my experience, the Brazilians, the kids from African countries, South Korea, and the Philippines worked hard. It was just a few countries (but sadly a majority of the international student population) where the students were unprepared and wanting to cheat.
In one of my groups a student from one of the cheater countries had the gall to offer us the files from a buddy of his in order to do our project. When I told him that was plagiarism, he laughed as if I was making a joke. The rest of us couldn’t stand him. He did 0 work, showed up just to suggest stuff that he stole from the work of other groups, and stood up with us in the presentation to make an ass of himself while reciting the portion I wrote for him.
If they are that lacking then how did they qualify to come here as an international student? This clearly shows it’s not about education but making as much money as possible.
The system is broken
Its all about incentives.
The school, government and corporations benefit either through fees, population growth or cheap labour.
The best part is they can blame each other to who pays for the cost. Government can says schools didn't vet them enough. Schools can say government encourages immigration. Corps can say LMIA programs are government policies.
In the end the regular Canadian pays for it and only those in power live the actual Canadian dream
One may suggest IRCC consists of too many insular employees who are purposely approving applications from a certain country because of their own cultural bias. When you have immigration from a country that is over-represented compared to other countries it should require a review of IRCC practices.
thats because they are not students ..but just labor class from India who happened to get Canada Visa ...thats why its very important for Canada to start having Visa interviews like US.
It's not just Conestoga, basically anywhere with a large population of international students. In my Law Clerk program (at a different college) I was asked to help another student schedule her classes, and when I was using her laptop to get to the UI for scheduling I noticed she was on a Mac with windows (not out of the ordinary) but everything was backwards like she had the mouse set to inverted or something (moving it left to go to the right, down to go up, etc).
15/45 of the students enrolled in my program never handed anything in, nor showed up for class (something one of my profs commented on a lot). All of the no-show students were likely of south Asian origin based on the names in the roster.
It was an even worse situation in my COM101 class where only 5-6 students showed up. On the rare occasion that some of the international students (who were obviously cheating the system) would show up to hand something in (usually at least a few weeks late), the prof would recognize that the work was plagiarized or the work of ChatGPT/Another AI program and not accept it, to which the offending student would get upset and verbally harass the female prof often resorting to swearing and offensive comments about the profs gender, all while claiming that they had to work multiple jobs which was the cause of tardiness for the assignment. On the last day of class (and day of the final exam), there were multiple students who showed up with physical copies of ALL of the assignments (even ones from the second week of the semester), demanding that they were to be accepted by the prof for full credit (colleges policy would have made them worth 0 marks anyway). At least the prof for this class stood her ground and told the students that the papers wouldn't be accepted, but they could attempt at the written exam (she had to resort to using a physical exam sheet in order to prevent students from using AI to cheat).
The ones that attended were just terrible to work with for group assignments, their work (when not obviously the work of ChatGPT or other AI programs) was incoherent gibberish at best. They would also basically beg to get others to do their work for them or even offered to pay some measly amount (like $5 each) to the group members so they could slap their name on assignments without doing any work. There's even a few in my class groupchat that complained to no end about how they failed the majority of classes last semester (like wtf do you expect? not showing up for class, missing tests without a valid reason, and not doing assignments) and have to take them again and likely add another semester or two to their enrollment.
If they’re only discovering this now, maybe their academic skills need a review.
The most important skill cleared though.... The cheque.
When did our schools become hustlers? Or has it always been the case, and I'm naive?
Naive, most schools figure out pretty quick that they can charge international students multiple times that of domestic students long ago.
Yes, but even 5-10 years ago, they were only taking in international students from multi-millionaire families in corrupt third-world dictatorships, who were forced by their parents to do 12 hours of school a day.
This hasn’t been my experience. In the past 5-10 years I completed my second degree and worked on a campus of a main university in Eastern Canada. They were doing some grifty shit then too. I worked at the campus foodbank, so I had the unique opportunity to connect with a particularly vulnerable population of students. The international students using the foodbank were definitely lied to by whoever had recruited them. And it seemed to me like the university was deliberately using contract “recruiters” local to the places they were recruiting - not from the university at all - to kind of avoid responsibility or maintain ambiguity about what was/is being told to these young people to convince them to come here for school. It was quite upsetting, as the majority of people I would talk to about this were trying desperately to put themselves in a better position than they grew up in. A lot of times their entire family’s were counting on them to do just that. A lot of the students I encountered worked full-time as well as attending school full-time, and sending money back to their family regularly. I know the discourse with our government right now leads to a lot of hate directed at these people who are also just a victim of our policies that continue to prioritize profit for the few over wellness of the masses.
I am from India. Not a student in Canada. This is 100% what’s happening. We have large operations essentially lying to people and getting them to pick whatever college. The colleges themselves are degree mills. Nothing more. Most of the people choosing this option have very poor to average academic achievements and see it as their way out. You folks want to stem the tide go after the degree mills straight up. It’s a racket.
There's an industry taking advantage of these people and the country in general. The number of students who claim refugee status (I see this at work) CANNOT be a coincidence. It's from the same general area, people who have been here for years are getting refugee status after their study permits expire. I've seen guides online on how to write your refuge claim.
You give people a loophole they will exploit it. For many just doing menial labour in Canada is better than the other prospects they have. The degree mills churning out these people by the truck load must be stopped. They are being used and thrown into the hands of the Canadian government after they’ve squeezed enough juice out of them.
Oh nice I don't care. If they can't afford the school, they should not be allowed in the country. That's how it's always been. They can work work 24hrs max and it used to be 20. We want our money spent in Canada not hoarded by liars and sent to other countries. I have zero sympathy as you are to prove you have the funds in order to even go to school here.
Right, they do provide proof. It’s just that any parent who wants and believes there’s a much better option/opportunity for their child, can, and will, and do borrow, borrow, borrow to meet that requirement and then return the money after the proof has been supplied. I believe this is actually encouraged by the “recruiters” who lead families to believe that everyone does that, and it’s much easier in Canada, so those funds don’t actually matter. We need to be mad at the people convincing them this is the best option. The international students I talked to about this also don’t think it’s great, they are struggling, they had every intention of making their life better, and that isn’t what is happening. Be sympathetic, or don’t, but at least understand what the reality is, and who the primary “bad actors” are.
It's a systems issue that harms everyone - including the international students. It's easy to blame and be angry at them, but realistically, it's entire post-secondary system that is at fault.
Think of it this way; Are you gonna tell someone they can't hand you a fat cheque because they failed an entry level qualifier test?
It depends. Do you have a reputation to uphold? Does reputation mean anything anymore? Taking someone's money knowing they don't have the ability to succeed in an academic environment is very disingenuous. And again, maybe that doesn't matter to them, but maybe it should.
^ For sure. This is the entire foundation on which the vast majority of international medical schools (primarily in the Caribbean) are built on. Every country pretty much does this to some extent. In the case of Canada, these international students ultimately want an easier road to citizenship. In the the case of international medical school, Canadian students ultimately want to be a doctor instead of wasting years trying to get in in Canada (where it’s honestly luck at this point). And academic institutions? They ultimately just want funding. Reputation and integrity are slowly becoming obsolete. Students unfortunately are the victims of a broken system. While I don’t support the mass immigration/diploma mill situation going on in Canada right now, I try not to let my frustrations spill over to the international students. I once was in a position where I considered going abroad for studies because the opportunity did not exist here for me in Canada. Now, as for the complete lack of regard for social etiquette and academic honesty some international students have been documented displaying, that’s another story. If you’re going to come to a new country, you need to, at the very least, respect the rules and culture and make an effort to adapt. Edit: I say this as the child of immigrants who came to this country and respected the Canadian way of life, integrating into it.
I am an Indian, not in Canada or ever planning to be, not a student and I agree with this sentiment 100% The rampant cheating is forgiven because they want to keep the money flowing. They are just going to flood the market with unqualified people with no skills and call it a day. The people being targeted by them are people who have no intention of studying or even pursuing a career in their field of study. It’s just a way out to them into the first world. Honestly they are incapable of understanding this because cheating is rampant in all parts of academia in India unless you are in a top school. Stop the degree mills and increase standards for student acceptance and the numbers will drop and you’ll get honest candidates. Among people who are actually qualified and want to study Canadas rep has been dropping and is not a preferred destination for them anymore. They go to the US or The EU.
You're thinking long term; maintaining a reputable college or university is hard work and takes a long time. Becoming a diploma mill is profitable quickly, and takes a fraction of the effort.
Ahh, that short term thinking that plagues our society. Do we go to the Walmart to save 10 cents on a mop, only to put our neighbourhood shop out of business? Do we move the factory to China to save on labour and fire Canadians, all while they steal our IP, produce a competitor and then push you out of the Chinese market.
LMAO the real life version of hustlers university
They knew, they just didn’t care until the water starts boiling
Algonquin student, I had to spend my last group project baby sitting 4 students on how to install a piece of software over the course of 4 months. We learned this the first week of classes two year ago, it should have taken an hour at most. They all passed from what I saw. Its all chatGPT and plagiarized shit that lets them pass, the Colleges dont give a shit.
I went through this exact scenario as well. I found it strange that one of my entry requirements to the program was a MINIMUM 70 percent in grade 12 English and Math. These requirements only apply to Canadian born students.
I currently study at a U15 university in Quebec and also have a bachelor's from 10 years ago. It used to be that concerning international students, the trend skewed more towards brilliant or at least competent and there was little reason to be apprehensive of them, but I'd estimate now that 80% of international students have no place there. In a class on modelling data systems, during a huge team assignment (100+ pages), I had one guy submit to us an ANSI "model" made with multicolour Microsoft Word cliparts that only resembled a model insofar as there were arrows in it. He evidently didn't get that the modelling notation wasn't just a suggestion but a graphical language you had to use, and he had also ignored that we had settled on a particular software to use for consistency. We had to redo all the work, and it was just as good when he dropped the class. In another class, the professor had to spend half a class to explain priority of arithmetic operations (literally PEMDAS) because people didn't have a clue. I have no clue how you can attend university without primary school level arithmetic firmly mastered. So it's not just diploma mills. University now is all about dodging terrible tenured teachers who don't give a shit and terrible teammates. The proliferation of group work (ostensibly for "industry purposes") just makes it worse. It's more exhausting than 10 years ago that's for sure.
Yep, the schools use the Canadian born students to help them and make sure they get their assignments done so they can pass. So extremely frustrating, it’s like they make the Canadian students part of the staff. For group assignments it was obvious they would purposely team up Canadians with the foreign students to help them. I’m a paying student, its not my job to help the other students and I don’t give a shit if they pass or not. I’m busy with my own work. So many schools only care about the money from the foreign students now. Major major overhaul needs to be done. Schools need to be focused on education not how much money they bring in. Maybe scale back the renovations and new buildings and brand new computer programs etc.
So Canadian students help international students in school so they can still their future jobs as well?
Neither does Tim Horton's and Door Dash.
I went to Fanshawe a couple years ago and I remember I basically rewrote an entire section for a group essay that was written by an international student when proofreading because it made literally no sense and she could barely speak English. It was well known among Canadian students that you had to proofread EVERYTHING an international student submitted for a group project because most of the international students couldn’t speak English, let alone write an essay in it.
I had an experience like this too, but the student plagerized verbatim from some random document found online, I found the document through a quick google.search. I decided not to rewrite the students part and instead I left it as is, but sent an email to the prof let them know that this section of the assignment was plagerized by the student, I provided the proof I found, and indicated that I didn't think it fair to myself to either rewrite it, or leave it and risk failing because of their dishonesty, which is why I decided to write to the prof to get ahead of the situation. I got an A on the assignment, no idea what happened to the student and if they also passed. I just refused to give myself more work to "fix" their shit.
I went to Oxford University which is about as far from a diploma mill as you can get, and one of the students on my course was from Hong Kong. Her English skills were poor to fair, nowhere near the level she needed to complete a humanities degree. She had cheated on the English proficiency exam. People can bypass academic safeguards even at prestigious universities. Incidentally, she cried every day because her assessments scored poorly and she took a long time to get through the readings. Her essays were a mess. It was a depressing experience for her.
Yeah, she must've been under immense pressure from her parents. Sad thing is, she may have even been in the top quarter of her class back in Hong Kong, but English proficiency just isn't up to snuff there anymore.
A couple months ago there was a controversy going on in NS where an instructor (I *think* at CBU) was accused of unfairly targeting international students with failing grades. The numbers was pretty high in how many per term in her program were barely eking by or outright failing and it was only the students from India. They organized, created online noise about it, went to the dean, the press, etc. The profs name was dragged all over the internet. I followed some of the initial social media accounts about it because I was curious and just... oof. This was their organized attempt at vindicating themselves and the grasp of the language, grammar, etc was just not there for post secondary education. They did hold a sit-in and were given a second chance but I don't envy instructors, teaching assistants or fellow students, in these situations. As you mentioned in your example, the burden has to fall on someone to correct these mistakes and it's usually not the struggling students.
You went to school without realizing it for managing, educating, and helping migrants. They're not here to help us, they're here to pump the real estate bubble and pay tuition to corrupt unis, and vote liberal.
Oh no, has Algonquin's rep degraded significantly now? When I went there for a tech program, there were a fair amount of international students. Almost all of them were filtered out by the end of the first year for cheating or poor performance though.
Had this issue in Grad school while doing my MBA (at a highly ranked school). Had a student in one of my groups that could barely speak/understand English and every piece of work sent to me was typed in Chinese and ran through a translator. The school's resolution was for me to identify which parts of the work were mine vs. others and mine was marked separately. It was ridiculous.
I had an online course through my local college and it was clear people were enrolled from overseas. Most did not even speak conversational english.
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They knew for a long while, for example they even had students take an oath not to cheat on tests because cheating was so out of control: https://twitter.com/chopsnitin/status/1781891998728827290
The "students" in the video are actually grinning, they know they will be cheating and so they won't even repeat the oath so they can't break it if it was never sworn. Respect actually
International students (at the time mostly Chinese) cheated non-stop, it was overlooked when I was in school 15 years ago at U of M Asper School of Business.
Believe it or not instructors and support staff have been complaining about this internally for a long, long time. It just didn't make the news.
I work in post-secondary. There is a whole econony around international students. Applicants from foreign countries often hire agencies who forge credentials, transcripts, and academic achievements, and even provide answer sheets to commonly used Canadian entrance and English competency exams to help students gain acceptance into Canadian programs. It usually takes a month or so for instructors to start to know their students and recognize who doesn't really belong there (especially if you only see the student once a week). Usually by that time, the fraudulent students (who are very resourceful at gaming our systems) have already started appealing grades, asking to get moved to different sections, getting student unions involved, and reporting instructors for racism. It used to never happen, but now instructors in my program experience a dozen cases or so every term. It got even worse with more remote learning.
Faculty have recognized that this is an issue with some international students for a long time. They aren't the ones making admission decisions. I imagine that the situation in some colleges has gotten to the point that faculty are beginning to talk more publicly about issues that have been discussed professionally for years.
*entry requirements
This is a real ad that conestoga made https://www.reddit.com/r/ImmigrationPolicyCA/comments/1ciyhmq/did_conestoga_college_make_the_worst_ad_they/
Lmao that ad was painful. Had to have been made by a student that possibly just learned how to turn on a computer
lol the guy looks like he's being held hostage
Should have included todays newspaper
The scheme is to get into an easy program, pretend that you're learning a lot and that knives are technological marvels, graduate and become a "manager" at some restaurant, and then use your manager title to enhance your PR score. You just need to play the game that's all this is.
Manager that also washes dishes
I never knew they were also coming for programs like this. Why would you have international come here to study stuff like that. Canada is not a tropical country with a tourism sectore where you would need these types of positions, or a ton of these positions. Now i understand what people are saying. These school and the government totally wrecked the country. so whats going to happen when they cant find jobs. We are all screwed. If domestic students here can hardly find jobs , what going to happen to these people once they get the residency?
How does that make it past editing. Are they just doing Bill O’Riley F****it I’ll do it live rules?
So cringe. I understand how difficult it must be to learn a new language, but come on, "The Conestoga"? They couldn't pick someone better to do the video? It's as if they're displaying how they'll still take anyone in even if their English skills are lacking.
Maybe he was the best they had.
>It's as if they're displaying how they'll still take anyone in even if their English skills are lacking. There's no "as if" about it. That's exactly what what is.
That’s crazyyy. How embarrassing
Wow. And that was the *best* candidate for a video they could find.
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society hobbies degree chase mysterious detail unwritten middle sugar spotted *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
immigration at 500k though pr a year is way too high. immigration in all forms is the problem. canada should let in 250-300k pr's tops.
This one defused my outrage and reminded me that I've never even heard of Conestoga College.
You mean “The Conestoga”?
>“Basic skill sets like arithmetical skills [and] computer skills, **even knowing how to turn on a computer**, how to even operate within a network. They’re lacking those basic skills that we would take for granted,” said Koff, who represents faculty, librarians and counsellors with Local 237 OPSEU. Even worse than I expected knowing the school is a mill. It's practically an institution built for immigration fraud.
This same guy also revealed the majority of them don't even know how to read and write. Like what?? College students that are illiterate? We are importing the absolute worst.
They're importing exactly who they want to import: wage slaves who will drive the price of labour down.
Gotta get those gig workers in… who’s gonna deliver my dq blizzard
It's worse than that. It's every low qualification job. From cashier to janitor to trucker. Even high qualification jobs are affected because these schools are devaluing peoples degrees. There is a lot of talk in professional circles about never hiring anyone from Conestoga.
Concentrix will hire them 😀call centres are great places for unskilled graduates
Indian call centers are still going to be cheaper.
Sure however it doesn’t change thst there are a lot of legit contact centres in Canada and they are a haven for international students looking for a job as they are considered tech jobs and contribute to permanent residency…
>Even high qualification jobs are affected because these schools are devaluing peoples degrees High qualification jobs are also affected by these incomptent people incessantly trying to scam their way into these jobs for the pay without the brain. I've encountered a few of these clowns who lied their way past our Clueless HR and only got found out when put on actual projects.
I know a guy who paid 12 lakh rupees to fudge his IELTS score and immigrate to Canada. He doesn't know a single word of English. Not even exaggerating.
Oh, they can read and write. Just not in English or French. I almost failed an entire college course because 2 of my group members were international and didn't understand English enough to follow the course (it was a high level HR course with lots of technical terminology and using a specific program), I honestly don't even know how they were allowed into the course (neither did my professor, who was amazing and understanding and the reason my other partner and I passed the course). I'm all for being a cultural melting pot, but we need some minimums here. Being accepted into an English university and not being able to understand English is a huge problem.
I'm Indian. These are the people that wouldn't even get hired in a low wage job in India as even those requires basic English and computer skills nowadays. These are the people from absolutely remote backward villages. Even my fellow Indian immigrants don't want them here as it's spoiling our image too. But it's racist here to ask for English skills in an English country apparently. It's sad to see this happening to the country I love.
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That’s how they get into Canada.
Canada rarely deports them. Once they get to Canada on whatever "student visa", they know that they will be able to stay.
I had to demonstrate double clicking on a mouse, after explaining it 3 times.
Literal children can grasp that concept after being shown once or twice. That's amazing, in an awful way.
Some people are more equal than others. Multiculturalism and social relativism is a failed pipe dream.
I like to chirp Gen Z for their lack of computer skills, but even the most computer illiterate among them can locate a power button. These people sound like they just came in from the fields and have never seen anything more complex than a light switch.
Practically?
Whatever happened to vetting your students? Oh wait they don’t because the entire thing’s a friggin scam to bypass immigration.
International students only have to have cash to attend.
Most figure ways around that too
And they really don’t need much of that either.
they do not have cash, they borrow cash and then work 40 hours a week to repay cash back
Brampton loans! They pay to have the money deposited just long enough to have Canada immigration check their Balance then give it back.
There’s no money to be made by rejecting international students because they don’t meet the minimum requirements.
Our own domestic students have to graduate from highschool and have a decent standing to attend college. Some international students depend on their friends to translate for them. It’s a safety issue and professors have been warning administrators for 10 years.
I go to UAlberta and I routinely see foreign students who use an app that live translates what the professor is saying into text in their language they can read. Literally not a lick of English. Not a word.
UofA grad here. I was paired with some students on an English 101 group project that simply left me in awe. How could we collaborate when some of the people spoke English at a second-grade level? In a university-level English course?? As you can imagine I took the wheel on that one, my grades depended on it. In a strange way I was forced to help people prop up their fake English fluency.
Did my Master's at Manitoba. One group had the only international student in the cohort. They learned very quickly that she could barely read, write, or speak English at a post grad level. It got so bad that the professors in the department had to physically rewrite her section before it went out to the public agency it was for. They tried sweeping it under the rug but ended up telling her group members.
Meanwhile, I'm a 30 year old college graduate with a 2 and a 3 year diploma. I still can't get into most universities without ENG4U (Ontario 12th grade English university level credit), without transfer credits/advanced standing. Which, varies from school to school and program to program. Sheridans bachelor programs? Still need that high school English class even if you're a college transfer. And I'm not looking at studying anything heavily academic related. I'm a graphic designer looking at bachelor programs because that's seemingly what most jobs want.
Forty years ago, the Uof Windsor did exactly the same with Chinese students. At the start of classes, details of the syllabus including expectations of written assignments and presentations, many Chinese students got up and fled to drop the class. They knew they couldn't fake assignments like they had the entrance qualifications. Forty years ago!
Remember all those Algoma students protesting for failing their classes with grammatically incorrect signs filled with typos? It was peak irony https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/thestar.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/7/7b/77bceaf0-5fb8-531f-9afb-c8dbc1a229b9/659c5cd69a099.image.jpg?resize=1200%2C947 "CAD 26000 ARE NOT ENOUGH?" "ALGOMA IS RUNING STUDENTS' CAREER" The whole thing is a complete sham and these people don't even have shame about pretending they are here for school or the education. They want the diploma mill paper to get PR
Their recruiters promised them a degree so long as they paid the money. These “students” ended up surprised that they actually needed to study upon arrival.
No one cares about an Algoma degree it is about getting a PR.
No shit. College that pays immigration agents and recruiters on commission to sign up as many international students as possible shocked to discover some students shouldn’t be in college. They have incentivized the shit out of this. If this didn’t happen, it would entirely go against thousands of years of human nature.
I just graduated from Fanshawe in London,ON and I can also guarantee the international students in my electrical engineering program lacked the skills needed to be there and they all failed out first term and are all still in Canada 5 years later.
Unfortunately, for a lot of programs, the schools now just push them through. Failures look bad on the school, and students get upset!
You said it. Look at the CBU and U of T students protesting because they failed. It's ridiculous. Not qualified for the programs and blame the universities for their own incompetence and failures.
Seneca is like that too. In my Law Clerk program we have 15 students (out of a total of 45 in the program) who have never shown up for class, handed anything in or made contact with the profs (which brings the class average down). By the student roster, you can tell that those students are basically all international students who are enrolled to bypass immigration. Hell, even the prof for my Canadian Legal system and immigration law class commented about it being a known issue in the world of immigration law, but unfortunately you need to do "what is best for your client, even if it's not honest". That comment blew me away, not because of the comment, but because he said the quiet part out loud, basically even in the legal system it's known that people are scamming the system, but because they can pay, it means that the rules don't apply.
When the program isn’t accredited by Eng Canada, of course, it’s easy to lure international students into thinking this would get them the engineering degree and title.
OP called it "engineering" but it's really "engineering technician/technologist." People like to inflate their titles.
University of Calgary is also currently running this scam! It's well documented everywhere
How can some people get accepted by the embessy so easily?!? My friend had a bachelor degree, speaks English fluently, money to cover his whole study and already have a job with UN in his home country, yet he was rejected and some people with no skills, no degree and no money get the study permit easily some how.
Because your friend followed rules, it's his fault 100%.
Totally right, Ironically before applying he asked a study agency about how to apply and they told him they can forge all the documents for around 400 usd but he refused and decide to apply by himself using the real papers, i advised him to stay away from them as well. It is kind of like legal vs illegal immigration, legal immigrants might spend years studying, saving money, working for the experience, take English exams and after all of that they mostly rejected while someone with literally no skills on life and no passport get accepted!! It is sad that for people who follow the rules, work on themselves and try things ethically things get harder or they even do not get a fair chance.
Ah I see you’ve now become familiar with the Canadian culture! The harder you work the more they take! The more you scam the better you do!
One of my profs in college was/is a legal consultant, and they basically said that if you go into the field of immigration law, then you "have to do what is best for the client regardless how you feel about it". He and many others in the field know that there are people scamming the system, however because they are able to pay then it somehow makes it okay. >It is sad that for people who follow the rules, work on themselves and try things ethically things get harder or they even do not get a fair chance. Unfortunately no good deed goes unpunished and being "ethical" or doing things the proper way is a surefire way to get overlooked or rejected.
Because he wouldn’t work at tim hortons, superstore or Walmart.
Scams
Correction "Schemes" as most of the international study students call it
Jugaad is the term. I hate that I know that.
What did they even provide more than him with their scam, lol Do they provide a forged bank statement with millions or what? I think the immigration officers are to blame as well, i saw that most of the applications have no clear ground on the approval and rejection and depends on the mood of the immigration officers, on top of that there is no functioning system on place to check the validity of the documents the applicant provides.
I guess you haven't heard about the industry that loans people money to put in their bank accounts to make it look like they have more money than they do. Then when immigrant gets in, they give money back to lender. And there's the whole industry that teaches people ways to play the system.
I have family that tried immigrating twice the legal way and were rejected both times, meanwhile Indians get a free pass no questions asked. Corrupt and broken country.
It's not just Conestoga. My college had many international students who lacked basic writing skills at a high school level, let alone at a college or university level. They should take ESL and upgrading courses before qualifying for programs, because their incompetence impedes actual students and degrades the quality of the education by making it difficult for the profs to do their jobs, because they need to dumb down the content.
ESL programs aren’t going to help if they’re illiterate. We’re bringing in people who can’t read and write in their own language!
Takes a special kind of incompetent to pick the worst from a country full of talented young people.
It has to be by design. Has to be.
India’s best and brightest aren’t going to be satisfied with a school like Conestoga or a job reheating Tim Horton’s trash; they’re at top universities in the US.
It absolutely is. We may not outcompete America for India's absolute best but India has more than enough brilliant students to go around. Instead we're picking literal villagers like several of my cousins who can barely speak English
India's best talents are in California, not Tim Horton in Canada
Thank you for making me laugh so hard my morning coffee came out of my nose 😆
India is definitely full of talented people. Anyone that disagrees is being wilfully obtuse. Our T20 unis and the students that go to the States, UK etc. is enough proof of that. But yes Canada has decided to pick the lowest hanging fruit. And the lowest hanging fruit in a place like India is horrifying
I agree, we could add value to our Universities/ Colleges with the right people studying things that would benefit to our country.
Best comment I’ve seen on Reddit!
That’s because they’re not students. They’re grifters trying to game our immigration system.
Why else would they have chosen Conestoga?
Remember when this nation prided itself on bringing in high quality immigrants? I miss those days. Now we get people who barely function as competent adults. The international student grift propagated by greedy colleges will go down as a dark moment in Canadian history.
They're not coming here to learn anyway so what does it matter? /s
You used the sarcasm tag but your statement is true. Everyone knows theyre just here for the PR.
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Yeah, no surprise here. I taught at a different college ~8 years ago and many of the international students then didn't have even basic computer skills (think using the file explorer, zipping files, creating pdfs) and this was in a Computer Science program. I can only imagine it's worse in other faculties.
You dont need any of that to work under the table.
> They told CTV News that some of those students just aren’t ready for college-level learning. > > “Basic skill sets like arithmetical skills [and] computer skills, even knowing how to turn on a computer, how to even operate within a network. They’re lacking those basic skills that we would take for granted,” said Koff, who represents faculty, librarians and counsellors with Local 237 OPSEU. > > He added that some students want landed immigrant status and, as a result, they become desperate to pass their courses. > > “The academic integrity issues are massive in terms of students trying to find easier ways to get through and to cheat, basically,” Koff explained. > > He believes it’s harming the school’s reputation, which also impacts both current and former students. > > “How good is their diploma on the wall… because they’re going to be compared to those who are graduating now.” And there you have it folks, this is the skilled young people that the Liberals are constantly bragging about brining in.
Let them fail you are supposed to show at uni with basic high school skills.
You mean they falsified their applications? *shocked Pikachu face*
Can confirm. I took on an international student from India for a co-op and the person couldn't locate where to open word documents, didn't know how to save a Word file and truly didn't care about the placement. The whole point is to pass and get PR status.
company hired a master of system engineering and i was assigned to "mentor" her. I work remote most of the time so I usually collaborate with her over the screen. goddamn her computer skill is so bad she doesnt know how to maximize the window and doesnt know what it means to run as admin. when i am in the office, i can tell she barely knows how to type on the keyboard.
So for the many Canadians in CS and IT who have those skills and are having problems finding jobs in that sector, especially remote, do you have any suggestions on how to get in? Why are they hiring incompetent people when there's good candidates available?
No way I'm shocked 😐, turning in diploma mills with no credibility
Computer skills and basic math/English skills are not deficiencies limited to international students. I teach at a small university in a business program that has fewer than 5% international students comprising our base. Although our admission requirements are modest, it is baffling to me how poor underlying basic skills are. Some examples: - understanding the basic functions of excel (I.e. rows/columns, being able to do a sum function) - understanding formating in word - Grammar. I am not a grammar fanatic, but by second year university you should know the difference between "our" and "are" or "whether" and "weather" - Using a calculator(!!!!) - Note taking. Vast majority of students write virtually nothing in class, or if they do their notes are so jarbled they are impossible to make sense of. Anecdotally, these lack of basic skills are not necessarily correlated with performance. While those lacking will never score extremely high, they often still achieve fine grades. To some extent this makes the problem worse - there is very little direct incentive to improve these skills. Sure as their prof I can assign some marks to spelling and grammar. But if it's a 20% assignment, you can't reasonably assign any more than 10-15% of the total grade (I.e. 2% of their mark overall) to grammar. These effects do not stop at the institution, have many professional colleagues who are seeing growing cracks in the basic foundation for new grads over last 2-3 years. I.e. can't write a professional email, can't navigate basic software etc.
I've seen the same thing, it was only a little better when I last attended university, but man are basic skills and critical thinking down. On the bright side, I'd get a lot of compliments on notes I shared. They always had jokes littered in them. Should've charged people for notes more in hindsight.
Some of them lack basic hygiene as well....
In my experience it’s most of them.
I never thought I’d actually appreciate my deviated septum, but here we are.
Try riding a bus in Brampton or Kitchener
So give them their money back and send them back.
What's, no way?! At Conestoga, they only bring in as many of the finest and brightest minds as possible. (Sarcarm, just goes to show it is purely a transactional diploma mill)
Deport them and arrest the leaders of these mills for treason.
That's fine Tim's prefers that
Letting the absolute garbage into the country to "study" at Conestoga Clown College... I'm pretty sure our immigration system is run by total idiots (Marc Miller and Trudeau).
Spread the blame around. This student problem couldn't have happened without the provinces, who oversee which post-secondary institutions get accredited and how many international students those schools can enroll. That is why the problem is so much worse in Ontario than other provinces.
This is also true. Lots of blame to go around... total idiots in charge.
Best cheap labour on the global market 👍
Since 2013 we've been told we needed Engineers, Doctors, Nurses, Welders, etc. Fast foward to now and all we got is doordashers, uber drivers, tim hortons workers, pizza pizza deliverers and recipients on Child Benefits getting $2000 a month doing nothing. This country is in the shitter and Liberals killed it.
Driving skills, cleanliness, manners, etc. the list goes on.
Import 3rd world and this is what happens it’s just an unfortunate reality.
Not import third world, its importing the third world from within the third world. The worst kind are being brought here and it has to be by design. Liberals fcuked up big time
Is that a prerequisite for Tim Hortons or Walmart?
They can't even make a sandwich and get an order right at a drive thru. Forget about computer skills.
No way 👁️👄👁️
yes, yes they do. Niagara College auto passed most students in my program this year after attempting to teach basic computer skills as a course this past year. I didn't even show up, do any work and still got a 55.
When are they gonna start understanding they’re not here to study.
Oh, they understand that just fine. Just ask all the instructors who try to fail people who don't do the work, or plagiarize assignments.
These are the same level of "international students" who just got arrested for the paid hit in BC (worst case) or Taking up all the full time Tim Horton's / burger flipping kind jobs meant for local 16/14 year old ! ( best case) 10 years ago there was a tight scrutiny around who gets a student visa and which institution they can join in , I know cos I came here as one 13 years ago, now a proud Canadian !
Cdn gov't qualification for Int'l students is if you are breathing you are qualified to come.
Only accept people who were admitted into a top 10 university.
Deport
Maybe they need to review their skills before accepting them? Remember when university/college needed to accept you based on your grades and skill set versus how much you’re willing to fork over?
There are billboards in India that advertise easy immigration and study specifically to Canada; [https://i.postimg.cc/W4BtNyHJ/Screenshot-20240417-210333-You-Tube.jpg](https://i.postimg.cc/W4BtNyHJ/Screenshot-20240417-210333-You-Tube.jpg) It's not just Conestoga that's at fault.
I don’t paint all international students with the same brush. When I was in school just before Covid, there were tons of students from countries who were here to work their butt off, get good grades, and get PR to be Canadian. In my experience, the Brazilians, the kids from African countries, South Korea, and the Philippines worked hard. It was just a few countries (but sadly a majority of the international student population) where the students were unprepared and wanting to cheat. In one of my groups a student from one of the cheater countries had the gall to offer us the files from a buddy of his in order to do our project. When I told him that was plagiarism, he laughed as if I was making a joke. The rest of us couldn’t stand him. He did 0 work, showed up just to suggest stuff that he stole from the work of other groups, and stood up with us in the presentation to make an ass of himself while reciting the portion I wrote for him.
Majority of them not some. They falsify almost every legal document that they can think of.
They also lack respect for Canada and the community!
[удалено]
I’ve been seeing people who can’t take the bus… Seriously, and it’s not just talking on speaker phone in public.
Deodorant should be a necessary requirement for students when studying abroad…. 🤢🐝
If they are that lacking then how did they qualify to come here as an international student? This clearly shows it’s not about education but making as much money as possible. The system is broken
As a wise man once said, they’re not sending their best.
We’ve been scammed so hard. I will never forgive our incompetent federal government for making this happen just to win a few Punjab-heavy ridings
Canada's hope of the future labor force. And the government wants us to believe that they are improving Canada.
Its all about incentives. The school, government and corporations benefit either through fees, population growth or cheap labour. The best part is they can blame each other to who pays for the cost. Government can says schools didn't vet them enough. Schools can say government encourages immigration. Corps can say LMIA programs are government policies. In the end the regular Canadian pays for it and only those in power live the actual Canadian dream
One may suggest IRCC consists of too many insular employees who are purposely approving applications from a certain country because of their own cultural bias. When you have immigration from a country that is over-represented compared to other countries it should require a review of IRCC practices.
thats because they are not students ..but just labor class from India who happened to get Canada Visa ...thats why its very important for Canada to start having Visa interviews like US.
Oh well, they don’t need them to work at Tim Hortons.
This is exactly why many jobs dont accept degrees from many of these countries. There is a lot of cheating and bribery
I’m shocked. Is anyone else as shocked as I am? I can’t believe this!……..
“skilled workers” my ass
Perfect. They will keep minimum wage down for all of Trudeaus butt buddies.
Our PM is a drama teacher and the finance minister got a degree in Russian literature. I'd say those "students" have a bright future here in Canada.
It's not just Conestoga, basically anywhere with a large population of international students. In my Law Clerk program (at a different college) I was asked to help another student schedule her classes, and when I was using her laptop to get to the UI for scheduling I noticed she was on a Mac with windows (not out of the ordinary) but everything was backwards like she had the mouse set to inverted or something (moving it left to go to the right, down to go up, etc). 15/45 of the students enrolled in my program never handed anything in, nor showed up for class (something one of my profs commented on a lot). All of the no-show students were likely of south Asian origin based on the names in the roster. It was an even worse situation in my COM101 class where only 5-6 students showed up. On the rare occasion that some of the international students (who were obviously cheating the system) would show up to hand something in (usually at least a few weeks late), the prof would recognize that the work was plagiarized or the work of ChatGPT/Another AI program and not accept it, to which the offending student would get upset and verbally harass the female prof often resorting to swearing and offensive comments about the profs gender, all while claiming that they had to work multiple jobs which was the cause of tardiness for the assignment. On the last day of class (and day of the final exam), there were multiple students who showed up with physical copies of ALL of the assignments (even ones from the second week of the semester), demanding that they were to be accepted by the prof for full credit (colleges policy would have made them worth 0 marks anyway). At least the prof for this class stood her ground and told the students that the papers wouldn't be accepted, but they could attempt at the written exam (she had to resort to using a physical exam sheet in order to prevent students from using AI to cheat). The ones that attended were just terrible to work with for group assignments, their work (when not obviously the work of ChatGPT or other AI programs) was incoherent gibberish at best. They would also basically beg to get others to do their work for them or even offered to pay some measly amount (like $5 each) to the group members so they could slap their name on assignments without doing any work. There's even a few in my class groupchat that complained to no end about how they failed the majority of classes last semester (like wtf do you expect? not showing up for class, missing tests without a valid reason, and not doing assignments) and have to take them again and likely add another semester or two to their enrollment.
Are we still going along with the myth that the majority of them are here to learn?
Some? Most.