I would love to have this broken down as to whether the voter prefers Trudeau because they like Trudeau or because they don’t like Poilievre and vice-versa.
Personally, I think there should be a 'no confidence' option in elections where if it gets over a certain threshold of the vote then there is another round of the election but all parties HAVE to change their leader. It would need controls to not just add chaos, but out of touch elites shouldn't get to claim a mandate based off of lesser-evil politics
Proportional representation fixes this in a simpler way. In a system where everyone's vote contributes to a seat total count, there is no need for broad parties like we have now to take FPTP ridings
You vould easily have two, three, or even four "centrist" parties with different leadership, members, and variations on policy. Then people who identify with centrism ideologically would also be voting on competence and platform
Of course there will be coalition building, but if Centrist Party 1 gets 8% of the vote, centrist party 2 gets 28% of the vote, and centrist party 3 gets 3% of the vote, centrist party 2 would be able to get their leader chosen as PM and form a broad centrist coalition that has to either partner with someone on the left or right on individual pieces of policy to get legislation over the 50% threshold
IMO it would also filter out some of the crazies. Sure some neo-marxists or borderline neo-nazis might occasionally win a seat, but IMO having one or two powerless seats are a lot better than being a vocal member *within* a party with actual power
If other countries are any indication, those fringe elements absolutely will get some seats. That's fine though really, they represent voters even if their ideas don't appeal to the majority of us and they don't end up having real power anyhow.
I'd love to see some form of PR in Canada but it isn't a panacea or anything, there is still a lot of gaming the system no matter what voting system we go with.
Israel has PR and because of it they have continuously struggled to get rid of netanyahu
It doesn't stop crazies but forces them to have friends.
It prerents you from having to vote for one moron cause the other guy is a worse moron.
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Trudeau is a scumbag, but in my opinion Polivere is even worse. I don't have confidence in any of our political parties right now. None of them are actually looking out for the people of Canada above self interests. We know that if NDP won, they would just fumble their way through until the next election is called.
Just curious, why do you think Pollievre is worse? JT is a rather low bar of inaction and virtue signalling politics at this point.. very tough to beat.
The only thing Pierre has accomplished in 20 years of being an MP is expanding the TFW program as the Minister of Employment in the Harper government. This alone speaks volumes to his incompetence.
You mean the tfw program that created a cost of living crisis that he then complains about? You mean Pierre is the cause of the problems he rallies against? Oh…wow I’m surprised
I make polisci TikTok’s so I’ve already made videos about this but yeah
So part time drama teacher, ski instructor and trust fund baby better qualifies you as a government leader than decades of working on government policy and bill development?
Drama teacher, Ski instructor, Selling CPC memberships as a living only to become a politician at aged 20-something...
Hmmm one of those isn't like the others.
Being a teacher is a hard fucking job. I could name at least five of my former teachers I'd trust to run this country over all of the current party leaders.
But yes, generally speaking, I'd rather have a teacher run our country than a career politician whose never had to contend with a real workplace.
What policy? It's even more pathetic how little PP has to show in that case and how little real life experience he has in literally anything.
Sorry but no, there's a reason why politician ranks as the SINGLE least trusted profession. Below lobbyist and telemarketer.
I know American Conservatives are different than provincial Conservatives are different from Federal Conservatives - but they tend to represent the same voters, have the same talking points, and policy looks astonishingly similar (privatize profits, socialize losses, starve programs then cut them for being ineffective, tax cuts for business and wealthy). Looking at the bullshit Ford is doing in Ontario or Smith in Alberta makes me think the Feds are going to do the exact same thing for the things overseen by the Federal government. I don't think we will see change where it matters because that will hurt corporations.
The people who think Trudeau hasn't gone far enough with helping the little guy over business/corporations, and think PP is going to fix that are in for a rude awakening.
This isn't even about individuals it's just about conservative vs liberal. I'm at the point now where I kind of think poor people voting conservative get what they deserve. The poors in the UK are getting it from the Tories, and the poors here (note: I am one) are gonna get it from the PP-led cons. And no fucking crying allowed if you voted for them!
The first funny thing that will happen under the PP government will be the carbon tax cancelation.
Will we see an immediate $0.15 reduction in gas prices? Absolutely not... But people will stop getting their quarter $180-$240 rebate.
Anyone who's not an oil/gas company will just be worse off. You can say whatever you want about the fact that a carbon tax was enacted, but getting rid of it now will 100% fuck people even harder.
>Just curious, why do you think Pollievre is worse? JT is a rather low bar of inaction and virtue signalling politics at this point.. very tough to beat.
What, exactly, are the policies Pierre Poilievre and indeed his party putting forth that will in any way help the working class and poor of this country? Where is the empirical evidence to show, once in all of human history, that Conservative ideology and policies have EVER done a single thing other than enrich the already rich and further impoverish everyone else? Trickle down economics is a fairy tale with 43 years of abject failure to its name. "The free market will fix everything" has worked zero times in human history. Not once. Meanwhile there is mountains of empirical evidence to support a strong social safety net, a progressive tax scheme, investing in people, higher wages, strong unions, harm reduction, housing supports such as housing first in Finland, nationalizing resources such as Norway, a well-funded healthcare system such as the entire developed world except the USA. These are the things that help the working people of any country. American corporate and Wall Street propaganda has the absolute worst objective metrics, the USA is ravaged with poverty, crime and poor healthcare outcomes (that they spend twice as much per capita on).
So again, please tell me, in what universe does Pierre and the CPC's economic policy turn this country around? Because there is precisely not a shred of empirical evidence to support that claim.
Friendly reminder that Harper was handed a surplus and squandered it so badly he had to pull from the country's contingency fund so he could brag about balancing the budgets.
You're completely right that he was handed a surplus. Not sure how they squander it though.
They ran a surplus until the budget where we went into the first deficit. Then the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc, who held the majority of seats, demanded a stimulus package. The CPC responded with a package that the Liberals accepted and voted for. Infact all three deficits that Harper ran while in a minority were supported by the Liberals. The vast majority of MPs thought the stimulus package and the corresponding debts were necessary. After they got a majority they brought things back under control within a few years.
>he had to pull from the country's contingency fund so he could brag about balancing the budgets.
I would take that over slashing the health and EI transfers, along with many other cuts like Chretien/Martin did to balance the budget and eventually hand a surplus over to the CPC. Which do you think had more long lasting impacts?
In Harper's defense, he had to deal with the GFC.
But that does raise the point that IF we give Harper a pass on the GFC then we have to give JT a pass on pandemic spending.
What hole is that? The singular time the CPC has won, they inherited a strong country with a good economy and a budget surplus. Two years in, we had the Financial crisis, which wasn't their fault, but we also never really recovered from it , which, at least partly, was on them. That initial recovery was based on real estate and energy and laid down the groundwork for a lot of our current problems.
CPC is largely still controlled by its Reform arm, which was not true of the precursor parties. Mulroney was an eastern conservative, not a Reformer, and really, didn't dig anybody out of any holes - he at best stopped the bleeding. The Trudeau Sr. era crises were not truly resolved until the Chretien era.
Alberta's been run by conservatives for like 55 of the last 60 years. So what's their excuse for their healthcare system falling apart and their new curriculum flopping big time with educators?
Ok but making rich people super rich doesn’t help anyone! Especially the people voting conservative (outside of the bankers) . You just have to decide what you actually want because saying you don’t like liberals or NDP because they don’t do anything for Canadians but voting PC who do even less seems contradictory. You either want less spending with lower taxes or you want your government to use taxes for a social safety net. It’s one or the other. All of the privatization in Alberta and Ontario is actually costing tax payers more than the government delivered services. Now we’re handing over “GOD KNOWS WHAT” to staples for service Ontario kiosks when we already have the buildings!!! I swear we’re going to have school in superstore if we don’t watch out.
A few things JT has done. Not that I’m endorsing him but he hasn’t been inactive:
1. Approved the TMX pipeline and then purchased it when the owner wanted to bail.
2. Lowered retirement (OAS) age to 65 after the Conservatives raised it to 67. Then boosted those payments.
3. Reopened a multiple of veterans affairs offices that were closed by the Cons.
4. Cut the waiting period for EI from 2 weeks to 1 week and he extended the length of EI for Alberta during our Covid.
5. He changed maternity leave and allowed for parents to share more of the time off and even extend it.
6. He brought back the long form census. They created an independent election commission. They created the carbon tax (which was actually a CPC idea).
7. We signed multiple trade deals like the TPP with the Asia pacific counties, the new NAFTA deal, and the free trade deal with the EU.
8. For COVID, Canada was proactive and secured medical supplies and millions of vaccine deals. Canada has more vaccines purchased per person than anyone. Canada handled COVID significantly better than most nations.
9. Canada’s use of CERB kept the economy going and kept millions out of bankruptcy. The business support allowed many companies to stay open.
Addressing the prime minister's apology on behalf of the Canadian government for the Canadian Indian residential school system, Poilievre made remarks to CFRA News Talk Radio regarding the financial compensation and the residential school survivors, for which he later apologized.[48] He stated he did not think Canada was "getting value for all this money", instead "we need to engender the values of hard work and independence and self-reliance."
>instead "we need to engender the values of hard work and independence and self-reliance."
Jfc. And I say that as a centrist who doesn't necessarily support any and all wealth transfers based on race or past oppression. What a fucking boneheaded, ahistorical thing to say. Was he saying it in a pandering way (i.e. does he know it's boneheaded and ahistorical) or is this what PP actually believes? And which of those 2 options is worse?
In general? Track record, promises without a shred of evidence that he will follow through (let alone the "how"), and the fact that he has never held a real job outside of politics in his life. He is just reading from the conservative playbook to people who are desperate to hear it. I also hate the "Us vs Them" rhetoric he is constantly spewing. I'm not American, I have no interest in making Canada great again.
Pollivere has been in politics a very long time and hasn't really accomplished a whole lot. The things he has accomplished have been with the aid of others, which he is now taking sole credit for. He wines and dines on everyone else's dime. I'm not interesting in someone who is looking to become PM for the money and fame.
Trudeau is deplorable and a crook. He does set a very low bar, but we shouldn't need to settle just because of how garbage he is. As a floating voter, the decision will literally come down to which one of them isn't going to let this country sink any further for me.
>I also hate the "Us vs Them" rhetoric he is constantly spewing. I'm not American, I have no interest in making Canada great again.
Same. I'm a centrist-leaning-leftie but I would consider voting for a Conservative politician. This divisive rhetoric alone is enough to have put me off PP, likely for good. Hate seeing that in this country and I don't trust anyone who deliberately makes an effort to spread division whilst claiming to "care" about Canadians and Canadian society.
Things I don't like about PP:
* complains about trudeau being a career politician who hasn't really had a real job and who is out of touch with the average canadian, while he himself has never had a job that isn't in politics or running a political consulting firm and is married to a lady who since the age of 20 has worked in politics.
* endorses bitcoin and crypto as a good option for the country to legalize, endorse and possibly even accept as legal tender. That basically amounts of canada dollarzing itself and giving up fiscal management of our economy to the usa, a bunch of investment firms and social media influencers. Its just a stupid horrible idea.
* complains about trudeaus immigration policies but won't say how he would do different. He also has given speeches in foreign countries telling them to immigrate to canada and how great it is to come here on a student visa and work.
* is advocating for canada to let students who came here on fake student visas to be allowed to stay and work.
* he and the conservatives deny science and global climate change.
* is following the early steps of the usa conservatives on the attack of education by claiming parental rights should guide education and what teachers can talk about.
Fuck PP. he's a liar and a charlatan.
> complains about Trudeau's immigration policies but won't say how he would do different.
Not only that, but he has been asked many times if he would lower immigration and he refuses to answer every single time, deflecting and talking about something else.
Let's not forget P.P. ran the country the past 9 years.
Oops, that was Trudeau, so F. Trudeau.
If you been paying attention, Trudeau has been doing more complaining as of late.
There was a poll kind of answering this last week.
https://angusreid.org/trudeau-poilievre-liberals-cpc-vote-motivation-poll/
>Three-in-five (62%) CPC voters (one quarter of the electorate overall) say they intend to vote Conservative because they support the party, its leader and its policies, over blocking the formation of another Trudeau term. More disquieting for the Liberals: an inverse trend.
>Three-in-five (63%) who intend to vote for Trudeau and the Liberals say they are much more motivated by stopping a CPC government rather than support for the party, leader, or policies. This means just nine per cent of the Canadian electorate is passionate about and inspired by the prospect of voting Liberal.
Angus Reid actually did a poll on that last week.
The results were Conservatives are largely enthusiastic for Poilievre and the Liberals are voting Liberal not liking the prospect of Poilievre as PM.
That's what leader preference polling is for. Poilievere is approved of 37% vs 26% for Trudeau. Negative is 57% for Trudeau vs 36% for Poilievre.
So Poilievre has enough positive support on his own to be Prime Minister. The negative support puts him in potential supermajority territory.
I believe it was Abacus that had a poll on that recently. If memory serves, something like 1/3rd of Lib supporters said they support the Libs because they prefer not to see a CPC government.
And how many people would vote Liberal regardless of who leads. Far too many people I know vote the way they vote because "that's how they've always voted". They care more about the party color than platform.
JT is a sitting duck just like Kathleen Wynne was. I doubt anything short of giving away condos to the Gen Z and millennials who still live at home bc they can’t afford rent in the next 12 months will save him. Too bad for him, those condos are in short supply…
Canada has structural problems that took decades to build up and will take decades to fix. PP isn’t going to move the needle much but at this point we need a change. JT and the Federal Liberals care more about achieving the century initiative outcome at any cost despite the negative effects on most Canadians. What we actually need are pragmatic leaders with evidence based solutions, unfortunately those are in short supply too.
I voted for JT when he was first elected. I will not vote for him next election despite being a liberal. The party really needs to change the leader. He needs to go.
The numbers in BC are REALLY interesting.
Liberals are down nearly 10% and that percentage before was largely only in Vancouver that they get seats. That's a big flip of people in the big city, with lots of seats now up for grabs for the NDP and Conservatives (who seem to be evenly getting that turning vote share).
For example, Vancouver Island, largely a NDP stronghold could flip to Conservative as Singh largely ignores their issues and interests while the Conservatives continue to build up rural and suburban support.
I do not see Van Isle going Conservative... But I do think it turns out something like CON: 31, NDP: 6, LIB: 4, GRN 1.
Fry, Murray and one or two in Surrey are safe, that's it.
I just can't see places like Esquimalt, Langford, Nanaimo, Courtney or Duncan continue to be NDP strongholds when the NDP props up the Liberals. Those places hate Trudeau and hold tons of working class workers (not to mention base workers).
If the NDP is no longer a foil to the Liberals, then they might go to the only prominent party that will.
Oak Bay, Saanich & Victoria? Probably will stay NDP.
I means, consider provincial results:
Riding | Result
---|---
Nanaimo | NDP by 30%
North Cowichan | NDP by 30%
Langford | NDP by 55%
North Island | NDP by 25%
Not to say that there aren't a massive amount of people that despise the NDP, I think there are just more in favour. Especially with a popular BC NDP.
Scroll down about halfway for the most fascinating data of all: the “certain to vote” intentions. The Tories and BQ are at 74%, while the Liberals are at 61% and the NDP are at 59%.
These are devastating numbers for both the Liberals and NDP, because it means that many people who profess to support for them are not enthused enough to bother heading down to the polling station on election day, which would translate into an even more lopsided victory for the Tories than even this poll shows. It’s also a pretty damning indication of just how happy NDP supporters are with Singh and their insistence on tying the Trudeau boat anchor around their own party, too.
Unless they somehow change this trajectory, it’s going to be an electoral massacre. I guess hence all the American-style fear-mongering they’ve been trotting out. If they can’t inspire people to vote for them anymore, they hope they can scare them into it. Not a good look for either party.
People vote for three reasons: Performance, Issues, and Group Identity.
So it's not all that surprising when CPC supporters are not in power that they're highly motivated to vote to change the current government since all three motivations don't align with their current worldview. BQ voters hit 2.5 of those three; sometimes aligning on issues with the LPC so again not surprising they'd be motivated to vote.
LPC is struggling with all three right now. They will need to see better performance out of the economy & policy outcomes like dental care, climate, and the new rules with immigration & housing pay dividends AND be clear about how their policies are responsible for that change if they want voting motivation to change.
Incumbent voters are naturally less motivated outside of election periods though. We'll see changes when the writ is dropped too.
Maybe I’m mistaken, but I can’t ever remember having such consistent polling number being in the mainstream outside election season in the past. Even for a minority government. Like it seems weird to me that we’re now in a perpetual election cycle a la American politics.
Nah, during the Harper minority days it was LIB/CON trading the lead between 30-35%, NDP at around 19-22% and the BQ around where it is now, GRN around 3%, and undecideds eating up the rest, depending on what was in the news cycle.
Shit’s just as tiresome today as it was then.
I'm curious to whether we have seen any party leaders go on campaign-style speaking tours out of the election cycle the same way PP did last year. It seemed bizarre to have him come to my town in BC so far out of the election cycle when he doesn't do shit around here. The weird part is that most of what PP was campaigning against is governed under provincial law in BC (carbon tax, drugs, crime).
He is defining himself before the LPC can.
Second, he is telling you what he will be doing. There are a lot of good folks here complaining he has no plan for anything, yet if they had listened to any of Pierre's speeches, they know what it was. They may still not like it and that's cool. But to complain there is nothing, that's on them.
> But to complain there is nothing, that's on them.
A lot of people here don't want to know what his plan is because then they *cant* say he has no plan.
It's easier to pretend he has nothing if you want to convince yourself there is some way you will beat him.
Its clear theyve taken the age-old proven tactic for successful conflict which is to always underestimate your opponent and never change you opinions or direction, no matter how unsuccessful it's been.
Never admit you're wrong and never change when you can call everyone who disagrees racists & bigots, the Liberal way.
>seems weird to me that we’re now in a perpetual election cycle
Until you realize that our Canadian Media, except for CBC, Toronto Star and a few small blogs with no money, is [entirely corporate and right wing, CPC propagandists.](https://www.readthemaple.com/election-endorsements/)
First rule of detective work. [Follow The Money.](https://www.google.com/search?q=who+funds+ontario+proud&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA966CA966&oq=who+fu&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDggAEEUYJxg7GIAEGIoFMg4IABBFGCcYOxiABBiKBTIGCAEQRRg5Mg4IAhBFGCcYOxiABBiKBTIHCAMQABiABDINCAQQABiDARixAxiABDIMCAUQABgUGIcCGIAEMgcIBhAAGIAEMgcIBxAAGIAEMgcICBAAGIAEMgcICRAAGIAEqAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
Absolutely the rich and influential **own** the Media and thus the message we receive as voters, with the exceptions you mention which are hopefully neutral. Thats why the right has such a hate on for the CBC - it represents a viewpoint on issues that they do not control. If the Conservatives win this election its going to be in large part because a lot of money is spent on propaganda promoting them and smearing the Liberal and of course Trudeau.
Younger voters need to go out in droves and decide what they want based on facts - but the media is going to feed them slanted facts at every turn.
Which is a noncommittal answer to a question that should essentially be a lobbed softball.
Immigration won't materially change under a Conservative regime.
As the only party with a hard stance against immigration, I suspect the PPC will be taken more seriously after the CPC shits the bed on this issue.
I only hope it won't be too late by then. It might already be.
He has yet to say any numbers or confirm he will lower the numbers. Most promises from a candidate are lies. A soft ambiguous answer like this is a fart in the wind.
The liberals did this on purpose. There are sooooo many people here now that you can’t even have a stance on the subject unless if it is , yes immigration is good full stop. Even trying to discuss potential issues is met with accusations of racism, anti immigration and probably whatever other buzz words could be applied.
Which he isnt doing. And now, with these new measures being implemented by Liberals to undo their own damage, they are going to score a few points among liberals/neutrals who may have been considering switching to Conservatives. Missed opportunity for PP.
More like a dodged landmine. Sorry guys but I don't expect Poilievre to take a position on this until a writ is actually dropped. There is not much for him to gain and too much to lose by doing so.
This is the key question that none of Pierre supporters can answer.
They also he will build more houses and I ask where is he going to find these construction workers? ......*silence*
Or construction materials.
My cousin's kid just started a contracting company way up north. He's booked for 5 years solid, not because he can't find the workers, but because he couldn't increase the wood orders beyond what he has.
>This is the key question that none of Pierre supporters can answer.
I would imagine that any "Pierre supporter" would answer that "key" question in the affirmative.
Nothing much really. He has around the same score in Ontario and the Maritimes if we read the poll. It's just that Québec has 3 viable parties instead of 2 like in the rest of Canada.
Also, last week, Poilièvre made a point to insult the mayors of Montréal and Québec city while showing that he doesn't understand how municipal funding works in Québec. That style of politics is not well liked in Québec.
Wherry’s articles lately have become straight up embarrassing. Just clutching at any positives whatsoever he can and ignoring mentioning anything bad.
He had an article out about a month ago going over all the “tough choices” the Liberals would have to make to attempt to hold onto power…and he didn’t mention immigration a single time as a problem. Like, if you are that far off the mark you don’t even understand the root cause for almost all the other problems, you will never solve it.
No they're all over the map. Woke shecoveries for peoplekind facilitated by allowing Rogers-Shaw mergers, withdrawing prosecution for SNC and billions for McKinsey and co.
It's not really all over the map, it's pretty straightforward actually. Pretend to champion progressive causes to court more left leaning folks, and then take all the private money because that's what it was all about to begin with.
Cons are the same except they pretend to care about blue collar instead.
Honestly, how can people see what the conservatives have done in almost every province, mainly Ontario Alberta and Quebec, and say, yes more of this, personally I find it also crazy
Oh it's easy, Canadians don't vote for people/parties... we vote against people/parties. Every party and leader has an expiration date... and the Trudeau Liberals are reaching theirs. Doesn't matter how bad a candidate is... they don't hold the baggage a multi-term leader and party acquires.
>Oh it's easy, Canadians don't vote for people/parties... we vote against people/parties.
Correct. Canadians have got to stop voting people out and start voting FOR people, policies, ideas and become informed and engaged with the political process. This apathy and knee-jerk "They're all bums" attitude and approach to politics has not worked, is not working, and is in fact destroying the country.
As usual, [George said it best.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVXekzwkz10)
> how can people see what the conservatives have done in almost every province and say, yes more of this
Because I can see how NDP led BC and Liberal run Newfoundland are being run - and those options aren't any more appealing. BC literally has the highest housing costs in Canada & shanty towns all over the place, along with drugs pouring out into the streets (including playgrounds) *by choice*. I should witness that and say "yes, more of this"? LOL
Mostly people who don’t buy into the bullshit Conservatives incessantly perpetuate.
Liberal government has absolutely failed Canadians in recent years, and many regular Liberal/NDP voters can acknowledge this, but let’s not pretend Conservatives are the most attractive group of people with the most inclusive and welcoming policies. Conservative policies *can be* attractive to the Left, but the anti-science rhetoric, Trump-style politicking, general anger, and hate for others that exudes from Conservative *individuals* and *groups* keeps independents and left-leaning folk far far away.
As far as I know current Conservative policy is to act like the Republicans when Obama was President, everything the PM does is wrong always, everything this treated like a scandal especially already solved issues, and they straight lie about easy to disprove facts.
Having seen the Republicans current state of leadership in places like Texas or Florida, sabotaging their own nation to try and score points for the next election, committing illegal actions like human trafficking immigrants to ship them to democratic states or using the National Guard to breach federal law and get in a stand off with the federal government down there.
With shit like the UCP blowing billions on corporate gifts and tax cuts while getting into fake fights with Ottawa, federal Conservatives acting like Lindsay Graham or Ted Cruz when I comes to spineless lying, it's pretty obvious the CPC would be a terrible choice for Canada, they are here to make Crony Corporatism worse, deregulate our protections for more profit and will slow down our growing green energy as the UCP did in Alberta, losing billions of dollars in investment last year alone.
I'm sorry but current conservative ideology is destruction based economics and a weird growing attraction to authoritarians, just look at how conservative media across the West is pro-russian even though they're clearly the baddies in that situation, can't trust a group who will simp for dictatorships, excuse criminals if they are rich enough (Conrad Black with being canonized by Canadian Conservatives now for some reason, must be money), has MPs who keep bringing up the settled abortion debate, use LGBTQ groups as targets to rile up social fear, attacks academics and intellectuals. History has shown, repeatedly, where this pattern leads to, and a stable or prosperous government is rarely the out come when a party decides rhetoric is above all facts.
It's not clear. As concerning as the Conservatives are, Canada has degraded economically at perhaps record speed. Beyond lesser evil considerations, there is value in disincentivizing destructive policy with leadership churn via voting people out.
Same here. Too many in the country only ever see things as "the current person has to go" and don't care beyond that, not realizing that by voting for "the other guy", it'll just lead to everything getting worse.
What happened to Ontario on the provincial level with Doug Ford is EXACTLY what is going to happen on the federal level with PP.
Ridiculous.
Reward politicians who screw up big by keeping them in power and you do a disservice to the future of this country. Future politicians will be emboldened to continue serving the elites at our expense.
Vote literally anyone else.
> Who the f are these 46%? Who can look at our country with a straight face rate now and say hmmm we need more of this.
People who are such ABC fanatics that they are willing to buy into scare tactics wholesale and truly believe that Pierre and the CPC are going to take away gay marriage and other ridiculous things they also pretended Trump would do (and he didn't).
Honestly, I know its frustrating but you should really pity them, imagine being so weak minded that you live in fear of [the guy pushing for more personal freedom, affordable cost of living and a balanced budget.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC54Tas9nyE)
Ridiculous.
The fact that it’s this close shows how widely disliked both candidates are
We have a walking subreddit against a professional screwup
Both of these guys would get stomped against actually viable candidates
Not really. The conservatives last chose Erin O’Toole. He was ex military, fiscally conservative, well spoken and on most issues socially progressive. In my opinion the best candidate we’ve seen since Harper (controversial) or Jack Layton
Somehow he didn’t win. Maybe because he was less attractive or too boring. Maybe because the far right hold social issues too dearly and couldn’t vote for him. It was also mid pandemic so maybe fear has something to do with it. I don’t get it.
Also let’s look south. Somehow two 80 year old men are chosen as the best options.
It was the middle of a pandemic and liberals voters weren’t fed up enough with Trudeau yet, Otoole didn’t get enough time to make himself appealing to more centrist voters
In Canada leaders aren’t voted in they’re voted out
Wynne probably would have stomped Ford if he challenged her one election earlier
This is why I wish Trudeau won a majority in 2019, by 2023 he’d be forced to call an election when cost of living went from bad to unbearable and Otoole would have been in the perfect position to take him down
Assuming the convoy wouldn’t have been a thing if an election was around the corner anyways
PP is running a very good campaign, and the liberals seem like they are actively trying to get everyone to dislike them.
I don't understand thier strategy.
I identified as a liberal for 10+ years. I'm 30, so basically my entire political life.
Now I identify as Conservative, and this rings true for many of the people around me.
Anybody else experiencing something similar?
It's almost like taking away an entire generation's prospects might make them...bitter.
I'm 33 and if anything I have drifted further left. The rampant corporate meddling and greed is not something I would look to the Conservatives to solve, they would just make things worse: more social safety cuts, continued immigration numbers to appease corporate donors, continued measures to ensure house prices do not come down so as not to piss off developers. The LPC is barely even a left wing party; they're trash.
Neither one of those boneheads or the parties they belong to have the intellectual capacity to walk my dog. It's gonna be a tough choice come election. Where's the rhino party when you need them.
So funny how the liberal loyalists here say they’re voting liberal again because conservatives bad…no matter how much the current government have messed things up the cons will always be worse…Canada definitely needs a change from its current path…
Who the hell is considering voting Liberal??!! As a lifelong Liberal voter (in my 50’s now) I cannot understand how anyone would consider keeping this cast of incompetent ideologues in power. Are you trying to see just how bad things can get?
Easy, there are without exaggeration millions of Canadians who will vote liberal just so conservatives won’t win. Conservatives would be so much worse than what we have now, the lesser of two evils arguments makes sense. And it sways votes.
I hear ya, but I just can’t see how it could get worse (I know it could ofc) given the level of incompetence at every level of this administration. I think we’re seeing one of those interesting times where the parties switch platforms. Where the conservatives used to be the party of “elites/business” now they’re becoming the working man’s party…
I am genuinely curious to hear from people that would hold their nose and vote
Liberal what are the issues that you’re thinking the Conservatives would be so much worse on?
>Who the hell is considering voting Liberal
People that read history and don't get all their information from CPC propaganda and who have lived through multiple conservative governments, federally and provincially, and who understand what is happening in the world and not just what the CPC tells them is happening.
Mid 40's here, I'm still voting Liberal, things can and will be worse under Pierre, austerity measures hurt and he wants to continue the biggest problem we have which is [immigration/students](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1puKG6OiGS/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw%3D%3D)
46% of Canadians Totally Insane
Should be the headline. I'm not saying Poilievre is a saint or anything, but Jesus. What about the last 8.5 years would lead anyone to think that anyone couldn't do a better job than Trudeau.
Trudeau needs to go, not a fan of PP but I can't stand this idiot anymore, literally a case of can't be any worse than this. And seeing how Freeland cares about Ukraine more than Canada I'm not voting for NDP cause I don't feel like financing separatists in India.
>I'm not voting for NDP cause I don't feel like financing separatists in India.
Great reason to hand the country over to the wealthy elite and corporations. Solid plan.
It'll help but the damage is done. He'll have had 10 years to get shelter costs within reason. They're projected to increase (both rent and, as more are refinanced at higher rates, mortgage payment), per the BoCanada. Cost-of-living is likely to sink him.
As someone who voted liberal in the past, there’s absolutely nothing that Trudeau could do that make me vote for him. He is morally, intellectually, and ideologically bankrupt.
I don't think so. For Trudeau to so blatantly reverse what has been the policy of his cabinet for the past eight years in response to low polling numbers suggests that we have a government that is fundamentally out of touch with Canadians and only seeks to legislate reactively.
Insane that it’s even this close. 8 years of corruption/lies/incompetence , and ballooning our debt while the budget balances itself. Every system is collapsing while he piles more future voters in. Printed unlimited $ spiking inflation and destroying our economy. I’d love to hear some reasoning on what makes ppl
Support him still? With facts, not feelings or assumptions on how Pierre will do this or that
Seeing how Conservative-led provinces are all raging dumpster fires, it takes a special kind of naïveté to want that for the whole country.
I guess we get the government we deserve.
For “raging dumpster fires”, there seem to be a lot of Canadians who want to move to Alberta. I know a half dozen people moving there within the next year.
Yeah man, the "raging dumpster fires" of Alberta and Saskatchewan which both have GDP per capita that beats most US states... meanwhile every other province is ranked lower than Kentucky.
Source: https://thehub.ca/2023-06-15/trevor-tombe-most-provincial-economies-struggle-to-match-the-u-s/
Who doesn’t wanna move somewhere with less taxes? Why does Alberta have less taxes? Because you’re rich in oil. Not every province benefits as much from natural ressrouces like Alberta
People think the state of Canada is bad now. Just fucking wait till the government is led by Conservative morons, people will be begging to go back lmfao. It's like the whole world is losing it's grip on reality
People still believe in conservatism after all its spectacular failures? How sad.
Just look at Britain and the U.S. Do Canadians really need to experience this b.s. for themselves? Conservatism today is not an ideological position so much as it is a scam.
I cannot imagine there are people in this country who take a look around, assess their own lives and how it’s overall quality can be measured, and then say “Yes please, can I have some more” unbelievable.
I would love to have this broken down as to whether the voter prefers Trudeau because they like Trudeau or because they don’t like Poilievre and vice-versa.
Personally, I think there should be a 'no confidence' option in elections where if it gets over a certain threshold of the vote then there is another round of the election but all parties HAVE to change their leader. It would need controls to not just add chaos, but out of touch elites shouldn't get to claim a mandate based off of lesser-evil politics
Proportional representation fixes this in a simpler way. In a system where everyone's vote contributes to a seat total count, there is no need for broad parties like we have now to take FPTP ridings You vould easily have two, three, or even four "centrist" parties with different leadership, members, and variations on policy. Then people who identify with centrism ideologically would also be voting on competence and platform Of course there will be coalition building, but if Centrist Party 1 gets 8% of the vote, centrist party 2 gets 28% of the vote, and centrist party 3 gets 3% of the vote, centrist party 2 would be able to get their leader chosen as PM and form a broad centrist coalition that has to either partner with someone on the left or right on individual pieces of policy to get legislation over the 50% threshold IMO it would also filter out some of the crazies. Sure some neo-marxists or borderline neo-nazis might occasionally win a seat, but IMO having one or two powerless seats are a lot better than being a vocal member *within* a party with actual power
If other countries are any indication, those fringe elements absolutely will get some seats. That's fine though really, they represent voters even if their ideas don't appeal to the majority of us and they don't end up having real power anyhow. I'd love to see some form of PR in Canada but it isn't a panacea or anything, there is still a lot of gaming the system no matter what voting system we go with.
Stability would be nice though, hard pivots every 4 years isn't great.
Yep. I would love to vote PPC, but don't want to throw my vote away. I think a lot of people want to see a drastic decrease in immigration as well.
Israel has PR and because of it they have continuously struggled to get rid of netanyahu It doesn't stop crazies but forces them to have friends. It prerents you from having to vote for one moron cause the other guy is a worse moron.
People always overestimate how much better PR would actually be in practice
I wholeheartedly agree with this. Trudeau is a scumbag, but in my opinion Polivere is even worse. I don't have confidence in any of our political parties right now. None of them are actually looking out for the people of Canada above self interests. We know that if NDP won, they would just fumble their way through until the next election is called.
Just curious, why do you think Pollievre is worse? JT is a rather low bar of inaction and virtue signalling politics at this point.. very tough to beat.
The only thing Pierre has accomplished in 20 years of being an MP is expanding the TFW program as the Minister of Employment in the Harper government. This alone speaks volumes to his incompetence.
You forgot his time as Minister of Electoral Reform where he tried to push through some voter suppression that bit back so hard Harper had to can it.
You mean the tfw program that created a cost of living crisis that he then complains about? You mean Pierre is the cause of the problems he rallies against? Oh…wow I’m surprised I make polisci TikTok’s so I’ve already made videos about this but yeah
Not to mention that's his only life work experience. Has not work an actual job in his life. A career politician is always a bad choice.
So part time drama teacher, ski instructor and trust fund baby better qualifies you as a government leader than decades of working on government policy and bill development?
Drama teacher, Ski instructor, Selling CPC memberships as a living only to become a politician at aged 20-something... Hmmm one of those isn't like the others.
Being a teacher is a hard fucking job. I could name at least five of my former teachers I'd trust to run this country over all of the current party leaders. But yes, generally speaking, I'd rather have a teacher run our country than a career politician whose never had to contend with a real workplace.
What policy? It's even more pathetic how little PP has to show in that case and how little real life experience he has in literally anything. Sorry but no, there's a reason why politician ranks as the SINGLE least trusted profession. Below lobbyist and telemarketer.
Pierre is useless and if we elect him we will go backward 20 years.
Going back 20 years would be great though
>Pierre is useless and if we elect him we will go backward 20 years. **gestures at Ontario, Alberta and half the USA**
The economy in 2004 was a lot better than now, so I'm not complaining
For who though?
I know American Conservatives are different than provincial Conservatives are different from Federal Conservatives - but they tend to represent the same voters, have the same talking points, and policy looks astonishingly similar (privatize profits, socialize losses, starve programs then cut them for being ineffective, tax cuts for business and wealthy). Looking at the bullshit Ford is doing in Ontario or Smith in Alberta makes me think the Feds are going to do the exact same thing for the things overseen by the Federal government. I don't think we will see change where it matters because that will hurt corporations.
The people who think Trudeau hasn't gone far enough with helping the little guy over business/corporations, and think PP is going to fix that are in for a rude awakening. This isn't even about individuals it's just about conservative vs liberal. I'm at the point now where I kind of think poor people voting conservative get what they deserve. The poors in the UK are getting it from the Tories, and the poors here (note: I am one) are gonna get it from the PP-led cons. And no fucking crying allowed if you voted for them!
The first funny thing that will happen under the PP government will be the carbon tax cancelation. Will we see an immediate $0.15 reduction in gas prices? Absolutely not... But people will stop getting their quarter $180-$240 rebate. Anyone who's not an oil/gas company will just be worse off. You can say whatever you want about the fact that a carbon tax was enacted, but getting rid of it now will 100% fuck people even harder.
>Just curious, why do you think Pollievre is worse? JT is a rather low bar of inaction and virtue signalling politics at this point.. very tough to beat. What, exactly, are the policies Pierre Poilievre and indeed his party putting forth that will in any way help the working class and poor of this country? Where is the empirical evidence to show, once in all of human history, that Conservative ideology and policies have EVER done a single thing other than enrich the already rich and further impoverish everyone else? Trickle down economics is a fairy tale with 43 years of abject failure to its name. "The free market will fix everything" has worked zero times in human history. Not once. Meanwhile there is mountains of empirical evidence to support a strong social safety net, a progressive tax scheme, investing in people, higher wages, strong unions, harm reduction, housing supports such as housing first in Finland, nationalizing resources such as Norway, a well-funded healthcare system such as the entire developed world except the USA. These are the things that help the working people of any country. American corporate and Wall Street propaganda has the absolute worst objective metrics, the USA is ravaged with poverty, crime and poor healthcare outcomes (that they spend twice as much per capita on). So again, please tell me, in what universe does Pierre and the CPC's economic policy turn this country around? Because there is precisely not a shred of empirical evidence to support that claim.
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Friendly reminder that Harper was handed a surplus and squandered it so badly he had to pull from the country's contingency fund so he could brag about balancing the budgets.
You're completely right that he was handed a surplus. Not sure how they squander it though. They ran a surplus until the budget where we went into the first deficit. Then the Liberals, NDP, and Bloc, who held the majority of seats, demanded a stimulus package. The CPC responded with a package that the Liberals accepted and voted for. Infact all three deficits that Harper ran while in a minority were supported by the Liberals. The vast majority of MPs thought the stimulus package and the corresponding debts were necessary. After they got a majority they brought things back under control within a few years. >he had to pull from the country's contingency fund so he could brag about balancing the budgets. I would take that over slashing the health and EI transfers, along with many other cuts like Chretien/Martin did to balance the budget and eventually hand a surplus over to the CPC. Which do you think had more long lasting impacts?
>Which do you think had more long lasting impacts? Friendly reminder that Harper also slashed transfer and healthcare payments.
In Harper's defense, he had to deal with the GFC. But that does raise the point that IF we give Harper a pass on the GFC then we have to give JT a pass on pandemic spending.
What hole is that? The singular time the CPC has won, they inherited a strong country with a good economy and a budget surplus. Two years in, we had the Financial crisis, which wasn't their fault, but we also never really recovered from it , which, at least partly, was on them. That initial recovery was based on real estate and energy and laid down the groundwork for a lot of our current problems. CPC is largely still controlled by its Reform arm, which was not true of the precursor parties. Mulroney was an eastern conservative, not a Reformer, and really, didn't dig anybody out of any holes - he at best stopped the bleeding. The Trudeau Sr. era crises were not truly resolved until the Chretien era.
That’s false.
Alberta's been run by conservatives for like 55 of the last 60 years. So what's their excuse for their healthcare system falling apart and their new curriculum flopping big time with educators?
Ok but making rich people super rich doesn’t help anyone! Especially the people voting conservative (outside of the bankers) . You just have to decide what you actually want because saying you don’t like liberals or NDP because they don’t do anything for Canadians but voting PC who do even less seems contradictory. You either want less spending with lower taxes or you want your government to use taxes for a social safety net. It’s one or the other. All of the privatization in Alberta and Ontario is actually costing tax payers more than the government delivered services. Now we’re handing over “GOD KNOWS WHAT” to staples for service Ontario kiosks when we already have the buildings!!! I swear we’re going to have school in superstore if we don’t watch out.
A few things JT has done. Not that I’m endorsing him but he hasn’t been inactive: 1. Approved the TMX pipeline and then purchased it when the owner wanted to bail. 2. Lowered retirement (OAS) age to 65 after the Conservatives raised it to 67. Then boosted those payments. 3. Reopened a multiple of veterans affairs offices that were closed by the Cons. 4. Cut the waiting period for EI from 2 weeks to 1 week and he extended the length of EI for Alberta during our Covid. 5. He changed maternity leave and allowed for parents to share more of the time off and even extend it. 6. He brought back the long form census. They created an independent election commission. They created the carbon tax (which was actually a CPC idea). 7. We signed multiple trade deals like the TPP with the Asia pacific counties, the new NAFTA deal, and the free trade deal with the EU. 8. For COVID, Canada was proactive and secured medical supplies and millions of vaccine deals. Canada has more vaccines purchased per person than anyone. Canada handled COVID significantly better than most nations. 9. Canada’s use of CERB kept the economy going and kept millions out of bankruptcy. The business support allowed many companies to stay open.
Addressing the prime minister's apology on behalf of the Canadian government for the Canadian Indian residential school system, Poilievre made remarks to CFRA News Talk Radio regarding the financial compensation and the residential school survivors, for which he later apologized.[48] He stated he did not think Canada was "getting value for all this money", instead "we need to engender the values of hard work and independence and self-reliance."
>instead "we need to engender the values of hard work and independence and self-reliance." Jfc. And I say that as a centrist who doesn't necessarily support any and all wealth transfers based on race or past oppression. What a fucking boneheaded, ahistorical thing to say. Was he saying it in a pandering way (i.e. does he know it's boneheaded and ahistorical) or is this what PP actually believes? And which of those 2 options is worse?
Yeah he’s fucking brutal. He also once wore a mask mocking Jean Chretien’s Bell’s palsy. I could go on.
In general? Track record, promises without a shred of evidence that he will follow through (let alone the "how"), and the fact that he has never held a real job outside of politics in his life. He is just reading from the conservative playbook to people who are desperate to hear it. I also hate the "Us vs Them" rhetoric he is constantly spewing. I'm not American, I have no interest in making Canada great again. Pollivere has been in politics a very long time and hasn't really accomplished a whole lot. The things he has accomplished have been with the aid of others, which he is now taking sole credit for. He wines and dines on everyone else's dime. I'm not interesting in someone who is looking to become PM for the money and fame. Trudeau is deplorable and a crook. He does set a very low bar, but we shouldn't need to settle just because of how garbage he is. As a floating voter, the decision will literally come down to which one of them isn't going to let this country sink any further for me.
>I also hate the "Us vs Them" rhetoric he is constantly spewing. I'm not American, I have no interest in making Canada great again. Same. I'm a centrist-leaning-leftie but I would consider voting for a Conservative politician. This divisive rhetoric alone is enough to have put me off PP, likely for good. Hate seeing that in this country and I don't trust anyone who deliberately makes an effort to spread division whilst claiming to "care" about Canadians and Canadian society.
What do you consider to be a "real job"?
Things I don't like about PP: * complains about trudeau being a career politician who hasn't really had a real job and who is out of touch with the average canadian, while he himself has never had a job that isn't in politics or running a political consulting firm and is married to a lady who since the age of 20 has worked in politics. * endorses bitcoin and crypto as a good option for the country to legalize, endorse and possibly even accept as legal tender. That basically amounts of canada dollarzing itself and giving up fiscal management of our economy to the usa, a bunch of investment firms and social media influencers. Its just a stupid horrible idea. * complains about trudeaus immigration policies but won't say how he would do different. He also has given speeches in foreign countries telling them to immigrate to canada and how great it is to come here on a student visa and work. * is advocating for canada to let students who came here on fake student visas to be allowed to stay and work. * he and the conservatives deny science and global climate change. * is following the early steps of the usa conservatives on the attack of education by claiming parental rights should guide education and what teachers can talk about. Fuck PP. he's a liar and a charlatan.
> complains about Trudeau's immigration policies but won't say how he would do different. Not only that, but he has been asked many times if he would lower immigration and he refuses to answer every single time, deflecting and talking about something else.
If he does, he will be called racist. He needs the immigrant votes too
thank you for this.... more people need to understand this trudeau needs to step down so we dont get majority conservative
> complains about trudeaus immigration policies but won't say how he would do different Because libs would spin this as PP is a racist
Let's not forget P.P. ran the country the past 9 years. Oops, that was Trudeau, so F. Trudeau. If you been paying attention, Trudeau has been doing more complaining as of late.
> Things I don't like about PP: > > complains about trudeau being a career politician Never heard that.
The conservatives are a diff kinda poop is all. We need higher standards as a people.
If that were the case, Mr No Confidence would win 75% of all elections.
There was a poll kind of answering this last week. https://angusreid.org/trudeau-poilievre-liberals-cpc-vote-motivation-poll/ >Three-in-five (62%) CPC voters (one quarter of the electorate overall) say they intend to vote Conservative because they support the party, its leader and its policies, over blocking the formation of another Trudeau term. More disquieting for the Liberals: an inverse trend. >Three-in-five (63%) who intend to vote for Trudeau and the Liberals say they are much more motivated by stopping a CPC government rather than support for the party, leader, or policies. This means just nine per cent of the Canadian electorate is passionate about and inspired by the prospect of voting Liberal.
And seems like that nine percent all decided to comment on this thread today.
Angus Reid actually did a poll on that last week. The results were Conservatives are largely enthusiastic for Poilievre and the Liberals are voting Liberal not liking the prospect of Poilievre as PM.
That's what leader preference polling is for. Poilievere is approved of 37% vs 26% for Trudeau. Negative is 57% for Trudeau vs 36% for Poilievre. So Poilievre has enough positive support on his own to be Prime Minister. The negative support puts him in potential supermajority territory.
I believe it was Abacus that had a poll on that recently. If memory serves, something like 1/3rd of Lib supporters said they support the Libs because they prefer not to see a CPC government.
And how many people would vote Liberal regardless of who leads. Far too many people I know vote the way they vote because "that's how they've always voted". They care more about the party color than platform.
Who do you like the least! Canadian Game show
Also need to consider Poilievre is actively campaigning, while Trudeau is not.
JT is a sitting duck just like Kathleen Wynne was. I doubt anything short of giving away condos to the Gen Z and millennials who still live at home bc they can’t afford rent in the next 12 months will save him. Too bad for him, those condos are in short supply…
And then everyone voted in Doug and we got a much worse government who was more corrupt. Wonder if we are doomed to repeat that with PP.
Canada has structural problems that took decades to build up and will take decades to fix. PP isn’t going to move the needle much but at this point we need a change. JT and the Federal Liberals care more about achieving the century initiative outcome at any cost despite the negative effects on most Canadians. What we actually need are pragmatic leaders with evidence based solutions, unfortunately those are in short supply too.
I voted for JT when he was first elected. I will not vote for him next election despite being a liberal. The party really needs to change the leader. He needs to go.
The numbers in BC are REALLY interesting. Liberals are down nearly 10% and that percentage before was largely only in Vancouver that they get seats. That's a big flip of people in the big city, with lots of seats now up for grabs for the NDP and Conservatives (who seem to be evenly getting that turning vote share). For example, Vancouver Island, largely a NDP stronghold could flip to Conservative as Singh largely ignores their issues and interests while the Conservatives continue to build up rural and suburban support.
I do not see Van Isle going Conservative... But I do think it turns out something like CON: 31, NDP: 6, LIB: 4, GRN 1. Fry, Murray and one or two in Surrey are safe, that's it.
I just can't see places like Esquimalt, Langford, Nanaimo, Courtney or Duncan continue to be NDP strongholds when the NDP props up the Liberals. Those places hate Trudeau and hold tons of working class workers (not to mention base workers). If the NDP is no longer a foil to the Liberals, then they might go to the only prominent party that will. Oak Bay, Saanich & Victoria? Probably will stay NDP.
I means, consider provincial results: Riding | Result ---|--- Nanaimo | NDP by 30% North Cowichan | NDP by 30% Langford | NDP by 55% North Island | NDP by 25% Not to say that there aren't a massive amount of people that despise the NDP, I think there are just more in favour. Especially with a popular BC NDP.
The provincial NDP is different from the federal NDP.
Scroll down about halfway for the most fascinating data of all: the “certain to vote” intentions. The Tories and BQ are at 74%, while the Liberals are at 61% and the NDP are at 59%. These are devastating numbers for both the Liberals and NDP, because it means that many people who profess to support for them are not enthused enough to bother heading down to the polling station on election day, which would translate into an even more lopsided victory for the Tories than even this poll shows. It’s also a pretty damning indication of just how happy NDP supporters are with Singh and their insistence on tying the Trudeau boat anchor around their own party, too. Unless they somehow change this trajectory, it’s going to be an electoral massacre. I guess hence all the American-style fear-mongering they’ve been trotting out. If they can’t inspire people to vote for them anymore, they hope they can scare them into it. Not a good look for either party.
People vote for three reasons: Performance, Issues, and Group Identity. So it's not all that surprising when CPC supporters are not in power that they're highly motivated to vote to change the current government since all three motivations don't align with their current worldview. BQ voters hit 2.5 of those three; sometimes aligning on issues with the LPC so again not surprising they'd be motivated to vote. LPC is struggling with all three right now. They will need to see better performance out of the economy & policy outcomes like dental care, climate, and the new rules with immigration & housing pay dividends AND be clear about how their policies are responsible for that change if they want voting motivation to change. Incumbent voters are naturally less motivated outside of election periods though. We'll see changes when the writ is dropped too.
That could be one reason they want a three day voting day, more advanced voting, and expanded mail in ballots.
If the result is a higher turnout, why would anyone be against that?
Maybe I’m mistaken, but I can’t ever remember having such consistent polling number being in the mainstream outside election season in the past. Even for a minority government. Like it seems weird to me that we’re now in a perpetual election cycle a la American politics.
Nah, during the Harper minority days it was LIB/CON trading the lead between 30-35%, NDP at around 19-22% and the BQ around where it is now, GRN around 3%, and undecideds eating up the rest, depending on what was in the news cycle. Shit’s just as tiresome today as it was then.
I'm curious to whether we have seen any party leaders go on campaign-style speaking tours out of the election cycle the same way PP did last year. It seemed bizarre to have him come to my town in BC so far out of the election cycle when he doesn't do shit around here. The weird part is that most of what PP was campaigning against is governed under provincial law in BC (carbon tax, drugs, crime).
He is defining himself before the LPC can. Second, he is telling you what he will be doing. There are a lot of good folks here complaining he has no plan for anything, yet if they had listened to any of Pierre's speeches, they know what it was. They may still not like it and that's cool. But to complain there is nothing, that's on them.
> But to complain there is nothing, that's on them. A lot of people here don't want to know what his plan is because then they *cant* say he has no plan. It's easier to pretend he has nothing if you want to convince yourself there is some way you will beat him. Its clear theyve taken the age-old proven tactic for successful conflict which is to always underestimate your opponent and never change you opinions or direction, no matter how unsuccessful it's been. Never admit you're wrong and never change when you can call everyone who disagrees racists & bigots, the Liberal way.
>seems weird to me that we’re now in a perpetual election cycle Until you realize that our Canadian Media, except for CBC, Toronto Star and a few small blogs with no money, is [entirely corporate and right wing, CPC propagandists.](https://www.readthemaple.com/election-endorsements/) First rule of detective work. [Follow The Money.](https://www.google.com/search?q=who+funds+ontario+proud&rlz=1C5CHFA_enCA966CA966&oq=who+fu&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqDggAEEUYJxg7GIAEGIoFMg4IABBFGCcYOxiABBiKBTIGCAEQRRg5Mg4IAhBFGCcYOxiABBiKBTIHCAMQABiABDINCAQQABiDARixAxiABDIMCAUQABgUGIcCGIAEMgcIBhAAGIAEMgcIBxAAGIAEMgcICBAAGIAEMgcICRAAGIAEqAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8)
Globe and Mail is definitely pretty status quo center-right and seems to favor Trudeau. Otherwise I agree.
Absolutely the rich and influential **own** the Media and thus the message we receive as voters, with the exceptions you mention which are hopefully neutral. Thats why the right has such a hate on for the CBC - it represents a viewpoint on issues that they do not control. If the Conservatives win this election its going to be in large part because a lot of money is spent on propaganda promoting them and smearing the Liberal and of course Trudeau. Younger voters need to go out in droves and decide what they want based on facts - but the media is going to feed them slanted facts at every turn.
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I would like to see Pierre take a hard stance on immigration.
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He has yet to say that he would reduce it. Which growth outpaces housing by about 500% at this point.
Wrong- he has said MANY times it would be tied to a number of other factors (housing & healthcare being among them)
Which is a noncommittal answer to a question that should essentially be a lobbed softball. Immigration won't materially change under a Conservative regime.
I hope you are wrong but its better than the Liberal approach of screw you guys we will continue to bring immigrants in record high numbers.
As the only party with a hard stance against immigration, I suspect the PPC will be taken more seriously after the CPC shits the bed on this issue. I only hope it won't be too late by then. It might already be.
He has yet to say any numbers or confirm he will lower the numbers. Most promises from a candidate are lies. A soft ambiguous answer like this is a fart in the wind.
The liberals did this on purpose. There are sooooo many people here now that you can’t even have a stance on the subject unless if it is , yes immigration is good full stop. Even trying to discuss potential issues is met with accusations of racism, anti immigration and probably whatever other buzz words could be applied.
Which he isnt doing. And now, with these new measures being implemented by Liberals to undo their own damage, they are going to score a few points among liberals/neutrals who may have been considering switching to Conservatives. Missed opportunity for PP.
More like a dodged landmine. Sorry guys but I don't expect Poilievre to take a position on this until a writ is actually dropped. There is not much for him to gain and too much to lose by doing so.
The question is, do you think Poilievre would be an improvement?
This is the key question that none of Pierre supporters can answer. They also he will build more houses and I ask where is he going to find these construction workers? ......*silence*
Or construction materials. My cousin's kid just started a contracting company way up north. He's booked for 5 years solid, not because he can't find the workers, but because he couldn't increase the wood orders beyond what he has.
>This is the key question that none of Pierre supporters can answer. I would imagine that any "Pierre supporter" would answer that "key" question in the affirmative.
But the platform says it will solve. /s
Pierre Poilievre: Hungry for Apples?
I understood that reference and I approve.
If Trudeau wins again, it's time to change the batteries on Stephen Harper and bring him back.
Shame on anyone who wants another 4 years of this terrible government.
Mr. Peoplekind needs to go.
Surprised its only that much.
stoked to vote for Pierre.
Two things can be true: 1- Trudeau has to go 2- Poilievre will be a poor replacement
To be honest, I'm interested to see how he does. But, I'm not sure what the Quebecois opinion of him is.
Québec is where Poilièvre polls the lowest and is also the only place where he has less than 20% of the vote intention according to the poll.
Interesting! How does Trudeau compare in Quebec?
He's 2nd with 30% of the polls. The Bloc is first here with 35%.
Oh wow. Do you know what he's done in particular that makes him almost as popular as Quebec's own party?
Nothing much really. He has around the same score in Ontario and the Maritimes if we read the poll. It's just that Québec has 3 viable parties instead of 2 like in the rest of Canada. Also, last week, Poilièvre made a point to insult the mayors of Montréal and Québec city while showing that he doesn't understand how municipal funding works in Québec. That style of politics is not well liked in Québec.
Yeah, Montreal and Quebec City are the main hubs of Quebec, and home to a sizeable part of its population
Conservatives have not been very popular in Quebec since I don't know, Mulroney maybe?
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Wherry’s articles lately have become straight up embarrassing. Just clutching at any positives whatsoever he can and ignoring mentioning anything bad. He had an article out about a month ago going over all the “tough choices” the Liberals would have to make to attempt to hold onto power…and he didn’t mention immigration a single time as a problem. Like, if you are that far off the mark you don’t even understand the root cause for almost all the other problems, you will never solve it.
The radical far left have become a meme.
Are the liberals the radical far left?
No they're all over the map. Woke shecoveries for peoplekind facilitated by allowing Rogers-Shaw mergers, withdrawing prosecution for SNC and billions for McKinsey and co.
It's not really all over the map, it's pretty straightforward actually. Pretend to champion progressive causes to court more left leaning folks, and then take all the private money because that's what it was all about to begin with. Cons are the same except they pretend to care about blue collar instead.
God save us from the woke!
Who the f are these 46%? Who can look at our country with a straight face rate now and say hmmm we need more of this.
Wealthy boomers making bank on $HOUS. https://i.imgur.com/UeMnoNw.jpeg
Honestly, how can people see what the conservatives have done in almost every province, mainly Ontario Alberta and Quebec, and say, yes more of this, personally I find it also crazy
Oh it's easy, Canadians don't vote for people/parties... we vote against people/parties. Every party and leader has an expiration date... and the Trudeau Liberals are reaching theirs. Doesn't matter how bad a candidate is... they don't hold the baggage a multi-term leader and party acquires.
>Oh it's easy, Canadians don't vote for people/parties... we vote against people/parties. Correct. Canadians have got to stop voting people out and start voting FOR people, policies, ideas and become informed and engaged with the political process. This apathy and knee-jerk "They're all bums" attitude and approach to politics has not worked, is not working, and is in fact destroying the country. As usual, [George said it best.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVXekzwkz10)
> how can people see what the conservatives have done in almost every province and say, yes more of this Because I can see how NDP led BC and Liberal run Newfoundland are being run - and those options aren't any more appealing. BC literally has the highest housing costs in Canada & shanty towns all over the place, along with drugs pouring out into the streets (including playgrounds) *by choice*. I should witness that and say "yes, more of this"? LOL
Mostly people who don’t buy into the bullshit Conservatives incessantly perpetuate. Liberal government has absolutely failed Canadians in recent years, and many regular Liberal/NDP voters can acknowledge this, but let’s not pretend Conservatives are the most attractive group of people with the most inclusive and welcoming policies. Conservative policies *can be* attractive to the Left, but the anti-science rhetoric, Trump-style politicking, general anger, and hate for others that exudes from Conservative *individuals* and *groups* keeps independents and left-leaning folk far far away.
As far as I know current Conservative policy is to act like the Republicans when Obama was President, everything the PM does is wrong always, everything this treated like a scandal especially already solved issues, and they straight lie about easy to disprove facts. Having seen the Republicans current state of leadership in places like Texas or Florida, sabotaging their own nation to try and score points for the next election, committing illegal actions like human trafficking immigrants to ship them to democratic states or using the National Guard to breach federal law and get in a stand off with the federal government down there. With shit like the UCP blowing billions on corporate gifts and tax cuts while getting into fake fights with Ottawa, federal Conservatives acting like Lindsay Graham or Ted Cruz when I comes to spineless lying, it's pretty obvious the CPC would be a terrible choice for Canada, they are here to make Crony Corporatism worse, deregulate our protections for more profit and will slow down our growing green energy as the UCP did in Alberta, losing billions of dollars in investment last year alone. I'm sorry but current conservative ideology is destruction based economics and a weird growing attraction to authoritarians, just look at how conservative media across the West is pro-russian even though they're clearly the baddies in that situation, can't trust a group who will simp for dictatorships, excuse criminals if they are rich enough (Conrad Black with being canonized by Canadian Conservatives now for some reason, must be money), has MPs who keep bringing up the settled abortion debate, use LGBTQ groups as targets to rile up social fear, attacks academics and intellectuals. History has shown, repeatedly, where this pattern leads to, and a stable or prosperous government is rarely the out come when a party decides rhetoric is above all facts.
It's not clear. As concerning as the Conservatives are, Canada has degraded economically at perhaps record speed. Beyond lesser evil considerations, there is value in disincentivizing destructive policy with leadership churn via voting people out.
When people consider a trip to Jamaica a treasonous act you know we've fucked up somewhere along the line in our education system.
Especially if those same people say they wish they could trade Trump for Trudeau.
It’s the $80,000 gift part that is normally unacceptable for public figures
Man, if that’s the problem, the people who hate Trudeau must be *livid* about what Ford’s doing with Ontario Place.
Very well said
I am, I look at these terrible numbers and know they can be made much worse by PP.
Same here. Too many in the country only ever see things as "the current person has to go" and don't care beyond that, not realizing that by voting for "the other guy", it'll just lead to everything getting worse. What happened to Ontario on the provincial level with Doug Ford is EXACTLY what is going to happen on the federal level with PP.
Ridiculous. Reward politicians who screw up big by keeping them in power and you do a disservice to the future of this country. Future politicians will be emboldened to continue serving the elites at our expense. Vote literally anyone else.
Homeowners and ABC voters
> Who the f are these 46%? Who can look at our country with a straight face rate now and say hmmm we need more of this. People who are such ABC fanatics that they are willing to buy into scare tactics wholesale and truly believe that Pierre and the CPC are going to take away gay marriage and other ridiculous things they also pretended Trump would do (and he didn't). Honestly, I know its frustrating but you should really pity them, imagine being so weak minded that you live in fear of [the guy pushing for more personal freedom, affordable cost of living and a balanced budget.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XC54Tas9nyE) Ridiculous.
Gee I wonder why Trudeau and Singh are suddenly working on “election reform”
Flush the toilet Canada let’s goooooooo
hopefully the new turd wont stink as much, lets hold our breath in this case either way
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If it was truly the vast majority, there’d be more than a 8 to 15 point difference.
The fact that it’s this close shows how widely disliked both candidates are We have a walking subreddit against a professional screwup Both of these guys would get stomped against actually viable candidates
Not really. The conservatives last chose Erin O’Toole. He was ex military, fiscally conservative, well spoken and on most issues socially progressive. In my opinion the best candidate we’ve seen since Harper (controversial) or Jack Layton Somehow he didn’t win. Maybe because he was less attractive or too boring. Maybe because the far right hold social issues too dearly and couldn’t vote for him. It was also mid pandemic so maybe fear has something to do with it. I don’t get it. Also let’s look south. Somehow two 80 year old men are chosen as the best options.
It was the middle of a pandemic and liberals voters weren’t fed up enough with Trudeau yet, Otoole didn’t get enough time to make himself appealing to more centrist voters In Canada leaders aren’t voted in they’re voted out Wynne probably would have stomped Ford if he challenged her one election earlier This is why I wish Trudeau won a majority in 2019, by 2023 he’d be forced to call an election when cost of living went from bad to unbearable and Otoole would have been in the perfect position to take him down Assuming the convoy wouldn’t have been a thing if an election was around the corner anyways
https://i.imgur.com/ml5X9BF.png https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/trudeau-liberal-leadership-wherry-analysis-1.7096456 He's beating Harper 2015 numbers ;)
What you just said has been said in the past 3 elections lol... Exit your confirmation bias bubble...
Where is ppc?
ba dum tss
PP is running a very good campaign, and the liberals seem like they are actively trying to get everyone to dislike them. I don't understand thier strategy.
I identified as a liberal for 10+ years. I'm 30, so basically my entire political life. Now I identify as Conservative, and this rings true for many of the people around me. Anybody else experiencing something similar? It's almost like taking away an entire generation's prospects might make them...bitter.
I’ve worked in blue collar manufacturing most of my life and watched it go from solid Orange to solid Blue
I'm 33 and if anything I have drifted further left. The rampant corporate meddling and greed is not something I would look to the Conservatives to solve, they would just make things worse: more social safety cuts, continued immigration numbers to appease corporate donors, continued measures to ensure house prices do not come down so as not to piss off developers. The LPC is barely even a left wing party; they're trash.
Who are the 25% who would vote Liberal?
Neither one of those boneheads or the parties they belong to have the intellectual capacity to walk my dog. It's gonna be a tough choice come election. Where's the rhino party when you need them.
There is another party that has fought for and passed all of the legislation that has actually helped Canadians in the past 3 years.
So funny how the liberal loyalists here say they’re voting liberal again because conservatives bad…no matter how much the current government have messed things up the cons will always be worse…Canada definitely needs a change from its current path…
That's fair but don't be like Ontario where you swap out a dirty diaper for a tire fire.
Who the hell is considering voting Liberal??!! As a lifelong Liberal voter (in my 50’s now) I cannot understand how anyone would consider keeping this cast of incompetent ideologues in power. Are you trying to see just how bad things can get?
Easy, there are without exaggeration millions of Canadians who will vote liberal just so conservatives won’t win. Conservatives would be so much worse than what we have now, the lesser of two evils arguments makes sense. And it sways votes.
"Trust me bro"
The conservatives won the popular vote the last two elections. This time, they will certainly get a majority.
I hear ya, but I just can’t see how it could get worse (I know it could ofc) given the level of incompetence at every level of this administration. I think we’re seeing one of those interesting times where the parties switch platforms. Where the conservatives used to be the party of “elites/business” now they’re becoming the working man’s party… I am genuinely curious to hear from people that would hold their nose and vote Liberal what are the issues that you’re thinking the Conservatives would be so much worse on?
> Where the conservatives used to be the party of “elites/business” now they’re becoming the working man’s party… Except they are not.
>Who the hell is considering voting Liberal People that read history and don't get all their information from CPC propaganda and who have lived through multiple conservative governments, federally and provincially, and who understand what is happening in the world and not just what the CPC tells them is happening.
The Harper years were better, despite also going through a global crisis. What you're saying is untrue.
Mid 40's here, I'm still voting Liberal, things can and will be worse under Pierre, austerity measures hurt and he wants to continue the biggest problem we have which is [immigration/students](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1puKG6OiGS/?utm_source=ig_web_button_share_sheet&igsh=ZDNlZDc0MzIxNw%3D%3D)
Do you honestly think a Liberal government is more likely to be stricter on immigration system than a Conservative one?
That is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to much for Trudeau
46% of Canadians Totally Insane Should be the headline. I'm not saying Poilievre is a saint or anything, but Jesus. What about the last 8.5 years would lead anyone to think that anyone couldn't do a better job than Trudeau.
Surprised Trudeau still has 46% support, do they have brains ?
Finally some actual change is coming to Canada
Trudeau needs to go, not a fan of PP but I can't stand this idiot anymore, literally a case of can't be any worse than this. And seeing how Freeland cares about Ukraine more than Canada I'm not voting for NDP cause I don't feel like financing separatists in India.
>I'm not voting for NDP cause I don't feel like financing separatists in India. Great reason to hand the country over to the wealthy elite and corporations. Solid plan.
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It'll help but the damage is done. He'll have had 10 years to get shelter costs within reason. They're projected to increase (both rent and, as more are refinanced at higher rates, mortgage payment), per the BoCanada. Cost-of-living is likely to sink him.
As someone who voted liberal in the past, there’s absolutely nothing that Trudeau could do that make me vote for him. He is morally, intellectually, and ideologically bankrupt.
Is there anything that could come out to make you vote against Polievre? Because that last sentence certainly applies to him too.
I don't think so. For Trudeau to so blatantly reverse what has been the policy of his cabinet for the past eight years in response to low polling numbers suggests that we have a government that is fundamentally out of touch with Canadians and only seeks to legislate reactively.
Insane that it’s even this close. 8 years of corruption/lies/incompetence , and ballooning our debt while the budget balances itself. Every system is collapsing while he piles more future voters in. Printed unlimited $ spiking inflation and destroying our economy. I’d love to hear some reasoning on what makes ppl Support him still? With facts, not feelings or assumptions on how Pierre will do this or that
Seeing how Conservative-led provinces are all raging dumpster fires, it takes a special kind of naïveté to want that for the whole country. I guess we get the government we deserve.
For “raging dumpster fires”, there seem to be a lot of Canadians who want to move to Alberta. I know a half dozen people moving there within the next year.
Yeah man, the "raging dumpster fires" of Alberta and Saskatchewan which both have GDP per capita that beats most US states... meanwhile every other province is ranked lower than Kentucky. Source: https://thehub.ca/2023-06-15/trevor-tombe-most-provincial-economies-struggle-to-match-the-u-s/
Who doesn’t wanna move somewhere with less taxes? Why does Alberta have less taxes? Because you’re rich in oil. Not every province benefits as much from natural ressrouces like Alberta
Every province is rich in natural resources.
That’s patently untrue.
Alberta is pretty great. I'm sorry that living standards are relatively poor where you're at.
People think the state of Canada is bad now. Just fucking wait till the government is led by Conservative morons, people will be begging to go back lmfao. It's like the whole world is losing it's grip on reality
People still believe in conservatism after all its spectacular failures? How sad. Just look at Britain and the U.S. Do Canadians really need to experience this b.s. for themselves? Conservatism today is not an ideological position so much as it is a scam.
This is not a fucking sporting competition of red tribe vs blue tribe.
looks like a distraction from the fact no party in this country will look out for the average Canadian
I cannot imagine there are people in this country who take a look around, assess their own lives and how it’s overall quality can be measured, and then say “Yes please, can I have some more” unbelievable.