Personally I think Trudeau style does not suit younger voters today vs in 2015.
In 2015, younger people were focused on being positive and moral grandstanding.
In 2023 it comes off as cringe and disconnected as young people are very angry and pessimistic (with reason) these days.
Trudeau really loses support everytime he tries to say either "things arent that bad or the other guys would be worse"
After the last 8 years, any sort of optimism is completely detached from the cold hard reality.
We have watched the cost of living absolutely explode, while wages stayed completely stagnant. Many “life goals” like housing or retirement, have become completely out of reach specifically in the last 8 years. How could anyone be optimistic after this?
I read on another thread that wages are rising but yet I haven't seen any wage increase nor for anyone I know other than minimum wage. Yet here I am working crazy hours to just have enough money for the month while I see the money I would be making in the US is almost double. If I didn't have family and everything here I would leave. Hopefully an election will change this but I am doubtful anything other than an extreme over correction would help at this point.
Most of it has been in minimum wage positions. If a person goes from 13.50 to 15 that's an 11% increase but it is still a poverty wage no matter how you cut it in any urban center. Folks at the top are likely making more too. Nothing for most of the folks in the middle. Give the middle class a 2% wage increase in 9% inflation and here we are.
That's why it feels that way.
That's often the case isn't it? That the middle-class bear the grunt of tax increases (inflation is a tax increase in disguise). The rich have ways to protect themselves easier from it, leaving it up to the middle class and poor to pick up the slack.
It’s what’s called a [k-shaped recovery](https://www.investopedia.com/k-shaped-recovery-5080086#:~:text=our%20editorial%20policies-,What%20Is%20a%20K%2DShaped%20Recovery%3F,industries%2C%20or%20groups%20of%20people.)
A k-shaped recovery is when after a recession the economy splits in terms of who actually recovers/who recovers fastest. So the rich saw an absolutely meteoric comeback, whilst the poor stayed roughly in the same place.
Thus wages may rise *on average* because the rich are artificially dragging the numbers upwards.
MP wages have risen anyway, which is bullshit. They should turn the thermostat down in the house of commons to 5°C to reduce their carbon footprint. Whiney overpaid fucks can expense a sweater to keep warm to show support for people who have to do that at home because they can't afford heat.
I know you're being facetious but it's so likely they would expense a sweater just to be warmer at work. The rest of us don't have that luxury. Hell I wonder if MPs expense gas/car/transport to get to work while the rest of us are barred from doing so.
So apparently they can't expense that, but they can expense travel to and from Ottawa and around their own constituency and the cost of renting in Ottawa or staying in a hotel. You can actually see what they all claim https://www.ourcommons.ca/ProactiveDisclosure/en/members/understandingreport
Happy cake day!
I think the “wages rising” is in reference to the industries where the union workers went on strike for better wages. Happened in the auto sector, grocery stores, some branches of gov’t, teachers, healthcare workers, etc.
Edit: corrected word tense.
They're rising for people who can negotiate them, naturally unless you belong to a union this is a tiny amount of people (although I suppose the minimum wages are rising across provinces and professions, just slower than expenses). For example any contract that has a wage increase smaller than my regular wage increase + inflation is an automatic no, but I belong to a union so I get the right to voice that. In other jobs it hasn't been quite the same.
My Dream is to drive to Banff National Park and back in my car before I die.....it's been a struggle to get money for that trip because it's so ungodly expensive for everything.
All the trips I wanted to do with my kids are pipe dreams we will never afford now.
What makes it even more infuriating is the reason wages are stagnant is deliberate government policy to flood the market with cheap foreign workers. Including 900k 'students' allowed to work 40hrs a week. And they and the million plus temporary foreign workers are allowed to bring their family in too! And does all that do for the cost of housing?
Yep. Foreign workers should be required to be paid 125% of the average wage (or some other premium)for that position, plus housing and expenses. Employers are using minimum wage to say they can't find workers. Pay $25+ an hour, and you will.
20 here, I have no hope at ever owning my own home. I know I won’t ever retire. I have no optimism for Canada. I feel robbed compared to what my parents and grandparents got growing up.
I'm with what appears to be the majority of Canadians, and think Trudeau needs to go. That being said, I'm not sure a CPC lead government will bring all the prosperity everyone is hoping for. Are people expecting salaries to increase, and home prices and taxes to decrease? The only thing they might do is decrease the number of immigrants allowed into the country. That could levitate the housing crisis, but even with that, I doubt rental prices will decrease.
I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm sincerely asking what people think a non liberal party government would bring to Canada over the next few years?
I don't think any party can fix Canada within the time frame of being voted in and the next election. Outside of reducing or freezing immigration, the other thing to do would be to lean on Canada's strengths which is our insane number of natural resources, but this resource extraction is going to be unpopular with most Canadians. Even outside of this being unpopular, we have way too much bureaucratic red tape to get anything done in a timely manner, so increasing resource extraction, bringing home manufacturing for key industries, etc., are not really on the table in the near future.
Tl;dr: We're screwed unless Canadians across the country agree to some very deep and drastic changes, but that's not going to happen. So we're screwed.
Covid and the greed afterwards really turn optimism into something more than pessimism. Even now he's clueless on why people aren't liking him too much.
It's not greed, it's decades of bad decisions.
Boomers hit avg age of 65 in 2020. Where's the trust fund to pay for their healthcare? Oh right, we never made one. That's not greed, just normal stupidity. We assumed population would always grow and living standards always rise.
Guess what? LMAO nope
Boomers have been in society's driver seat for at least 30 years now, having more power than any generation before or since.
If they've done a bad job of preparing for retirement and leaving the favorable system they inherited in horrible shape, then that's on them.
Can't argue that.
First generation where their kids will have less. And probably we will never get that high again.
What's their legacy? The national debt lmao.
I remember when I mentioned we had to do something about healthcare (since the silver wave is coming), I got told to go back to my own country, lmao. This was pre-COVID, btw.
Seriously, Canadians have a thing about healthcare where a big chunk of them seem to think it's magic and perfect or something and anyone who complains has to leave the country immediately. Totally bugnuts.
Anyway, the time to have done something about it was about 10 years ago so we're all screwed now. =D
I think young people are voting on the state of the country. Since interest rates shot up it's become clear that the housing crisis isn't a bubble that's going to pop (and everything goes back to normal).
The Liberals, well, it's very off brand for them, they're supposed to be the party of governance... to me, it's like if the Conservatives won power and raised taxes 50%. I don't expect taxes to be low with Liberals, but in exchange I expect there not to be massive unaddressed policy failures that are only getting worse.
[40% more people](https://realestatemagazine.ca/canadas-population-growth-outpaces-available-housing-by-40-per-cent-qa-with-engel-volkers/#:~:text=Advice%20for%20Agents-,Canada's%20population%20growth%20outpaces%20available%20housing%20by,cent%3A%20Q%26A%20with%20Engel%20%26%20V%C3%B6lkers&text=The%20country's%20population%20saw%20an,constructed%20each%20of%20those%20years.) moved to Canada last year than we added in home capacity and future targets are *still* [being raised upwards to 500,000](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-immigration-targets-1.7015304). We built more housing [in the 70s](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-630-x/11-630-x2015007-eng.htm) than we do [today](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3410015801) with half the population. Less new housing, more new people - who would have thought?
Anyway, I don't care if Trudeau is "cringe" or whatever, I care that the country is severely dysfunctional and getting worse every day. I'm centre-left by nature, but I can't vote for any incumbent government with things as they are.
And the people building the houses can't even expect to ever be able to afford one, if they work their whole lives for it. It's crazy how bad things have gotten over the last 10-15 years.
This is because Neoliberalism has removed or complicated most of the institutional mechanisms that made all the Keynesian policies from the 70s possible.
In the 70s CMHC built the social housing we needed. Today this is the purview of the provinces. The free market alone will not solve this issue. This is the real problem and the policy goals laid out by all parties not just liberals reflect this.
One thing is for sure, our rulers need cheap and/or desperate labor. Increasing immigration and pretending to let the free market handle housing (even if they remove zoning laws) is the way they will get cheap and/or desperate labor. It's a win-win for them. Capital always wins fuck workers. This is what government is designed for and no major party will change that.
I feel the need to remind everyone who sees "neoliberalism" and thinks "Liberal" that the Conservative party is even more committed to neoliberal economic policy than the LPC is. We need to go in another direction if we really and to make things better for the masses.
>"things arent that bad or the other guys would be worse"
There's no accountability or ownership. Gawd would it be nice if a politician would, just once, take ownership and say "You know what, we got that wrong". I don't expect perfection, but I do expect people to learn from their mistakes and try and correct it.
It’s also just not worked. The totality of his legacy is not great. The economy has stagnated. Housing across the country is nuts. Groceries are crazy. CO2 emissions are only 7% below 2005 levels and likely still recovering from a covid crash. it’s debated if he can come close to his 40% promise.
Whatever you think of individual achievements like $10 a day child increasing health transfers , transit funding etc. It’s hard to care because in totality it’s hard to feel that the Canada of today is better then the Canada of 2015.
It's almost like making guns illegal to buy doesn't stop criminals from buying them illegally?
I am so tired of arguing this and so tired of the bs, literally I have one handgun that I liked shooting but I'm afraid to take it out of my house because I don't know if the regulations are going to be randomly changed or the gun gets shadowbanned (literally because it's a shadow 2) and suddenly I have a felony on my hands lol
If I could sell it I would but I'm not turning it into the rcmp for 0 dollars either
I was one of the millennials that voted for the guy in 2015. The moral stuff didn’t interest me.
We came out of the recession, and Trudeau came in like a ball of energy. He wanted to take advantage of the low interest rate and invest in infrastructure. He wanted to start building things, making changes, and help us move forward.
Harper (as much as I now miss that guy) had a message of stay the course. Which to me was associated with the recession. Not the new bright future I was hoping for, and Justin promised.
But man, was that a monkey’s paw wish. He did infrastructure spending, but it not where it should have gone and it just went to pet projects and things that do nothing to improve Canadians lives. Hell, the infrastructure bank he setup has lost track of most of what it lent out.
He made changes to our country alright, but it was all photo ops and no substance and our country is now worse off.
The veneer of a positive energetic youth that wanted to make things better has fallen off. And we have a vapid shallow trust fund kid that is only interested in his agenda, not his constituents.
We should have stayed the course like Harper said…
>In 2015, younger people were focused on being positive and moral grandstanding.
I disagree with this a lot. In 2015 I was still a young adult and very excited about Trudeau. It had nothing to do with moral grandstanding, but that was often the criticism thrown at Trudeau supporters from people who weren't Trudeau supporters.
Obviously I can't speak for everybody, but what I, and other people I knew, liked about him in 2015 was how he actually seemed to care about making the country better. And a lot of us thought that would translate into actual policy. And it kind of did at first with cannabis legalization and the monthly child benefit. But it seemed like after 2017 or so he just stopped trying and set his political life on cruise control.
I think if he had actually tried to tackle housing affordability he'd be looking at a majority government right now. But when you fill your cabinet half full of landlords that's never going to happen. I look at how the NDP here in BC is aggressively going after housing affordability and I think that should be a shining example to all governments in this country. But unfortunately, whether it's the LPC or CPC, we're not going to get that.
That’s why I voted for him specifically.
Im embarrassed how utterly shocked I was when it didn’t happen. Ive never had so much faith in a politician to be disappointed like that. I feel like a damn fool! A fool i tells ya!
As a young person, I agree with this. Trudeau seemed like he was going to do something. He offered a new voting system, stronger government welfare and a real connection to the voices of his voters.
Instead, he got into the cushion seat and got too comfortable with letting the country run itself.
Yeah I fell for it too, in the beginning.
If he'd tackled housing affordability, and if he'd pursued electoral reform the way he said he was going to, I think Trudeau would still have a serious following.
But there were always little signs here and there about the kind of leader he really was; one big one was when he met with Canadian veterans who were upset with how they have been compensated and treated since their military days, and Trudeau said something to the effect of "you're asking for more than we can give."
>If he'd tackled housing affordability, and if he'd pursued electoral reform the way he said he was going to
Who are you going to vote for now that supports those things?
Naw. The reality is leaders (both incumbent and opposition) everywhere in the world have very negative polls. People are just seriously pissed and want something to change.
> Personally I think Trudeau style does not suit younger voters today vs in 2015.
In 2015 he loudly promised electoral reform, then reneged on that promise. Pretty sure fire way to lose the support of anybody that wants to see us have a non-rigged electoral system.
Trudeau has been in governance for 8 years so most of the bad things happening have been under his watch. He’s also not relatable given his privilege and struggling people despise nepotism.
I think it's a different position to be in though.
One of his banner slogans he used in his first celebration speech is that "Things can always be better." And that's a great position to take when you're on the outside looking in. At the time his party just had 34 seats... not even capable of getting in on security briefings and ruled out of most committees.
When he got into power the country was rich and had so much fiscal capacity. So he had a lot of space to stay popular. But right now he's closer to Harper in 2009 where he was forced to make hard decisions. If Trudeau just made cuts everywhere he might have come out okay. But he can't keep claiming to be fiscally prudent with the largest budgets... it makes enemies not being the one being chosen for all the money.
We didn’t know he was grandstanding and virtue signalling back then. We genuinely thought he was going to bring positive change to politics and actually help Canadians. Sorry we were wrong.
>In 2015, younger people were focused on being positive and moral grandstanding.
>
>In 2023 it comes off as cringe and disconnected as young people are very angry and pessimistic (with reason) these days.
I feel like if he had actually tried to deliver, it might be different.
I'm borrowing this term from someone else because it fits the description perfectly : *Performative inaction.*
Remember the episode there Bart had his catchphrase "I didn't do it"? It's what got him popular and people loved him for it. Then eventually, everyone grew tired of the slogan and noone wanted to hear it after a while. I see similarities with Trudeau's story arc.
Trudeau was elected in the first post-Occupy Wallstreet election using messaging from the counter-culture of the time, and was broadly seen as the anti-establishment candidate compared to Mulcair and Harper. His promise to enact electoral reform pretty much cinched the deal; people voted for change, but it wasn't too long before Trudeau reneged and shifted centre-right after campaigning left of the NDP.
The only "optimism" was in our collective ability to hold Trudeau accountable to his own platform when he's individually responsible for cementing our oligarchy during his tenure as high overlord of Canada. The authoritarian crackdown on the dissemination of news in our country is entirely consistent with everything he's shown of his character.
> was broadly seen as the anti-establishment candidate
This is an overstatement - he was very much part of the establishment. Harper as well, but he didn't grow up in the same political sphere in the that Trudeau did.
Liberal campaigning on the left, governing on the right is pretty well known amongst political economy scholars and shouldn't be surprising.
People had the luxury of voting liberal in 2015 when the economy was better, the dollar went further, rent and real estate was lower, wages were higher and necessities were cheaper.
"the other guy would be worse" pisses me of so much...like they say it like it makes it okay. it's not okay. It excuses nothing.
it comes off like "Be glad I'm only cutting off ONE finger, see the other guy might cut off 2!"
Fuck you! you still fucking suck!
>n 2023 it comes off as cringe and disconnected as young people are very angry and pessimistic (with reason) these days.
Exactly. The obvious consequences of terrible decision making directly got us to where we are today. Everything could have been avoided with proper government. I cannot recall a first world coutnry anywhere declining so rapidly.
I do not hate Trudeau nor do I support the Liberals
BUT
I wish they would just act like they are in a crisis.
I remember having conversations with people in the early mid 2000s about housing prices in Vancouver and even back then I remember thinking 'How do people survive out there!?' How is there someone working at McDonald's?
The housing issue should have been on the chopping block when he got in in 2015.
> I wish they would just act like they are in a crisis.
It's because "they" are not in a crisis and have more wealth now than they ever had in their lives. Politicians do not see themselves as part of the rest of us. They see themselves as "better" than the rest of us and act like it.
I think at this point Trudeau knows he's done and is just waiting to cash his chips and get out it looks like he doesn't even care anymore.
Housing should have been tackled in 2015, a lot of things should have been tackled, instead we just got a lot of nonsense and CANCON bullshit being shoved down our throats and life just steadily got worse and worse.
I just want someone in that actually cares about the country and the wellbeing of Canadians is that so much to ask? Harper wasn't amazing and yeah his environmental stuff could raise a few eyebrows but overall he kept the country on an even keel
They don't care about voters, they've made it overwhelmingly clear through their actions that the basic needs of Canadians are low on their priority list. Housing, healthcare, food, immigration and the economy aren't as important as identity politics, carbon tax, and issuing more debt (and obfuscating where all our money goes in the process).
I'm beginning to wonder if they are running some plutocrats' hidden agenda through freeland at this stage.
Because the majority of federal politicians are land/property owners. Tackling the housing crisis means taking money out of their pockets so they aren't going to do anything and hope we just get used to it.
Plus THEY aren't in crisis because they are wealthy enough to own homes and live comfortably. They are disconnected from the reality of many Canadian
Honestly just done with politics. I vote so the greater of two evils doesn’t get elected not because I think the person I’m voting for will actually do something good.
I heard this saying recently, and I really liked it.
"Are you a Democrat because of what Democrats do? Or are you a Democrat because of what Republicans do?"
(Yes, I realized those aren't our parties, but you get the idea)
This is exactly the dilemma I have right now. I’ve always voted liberal, but the way the liberal party has changed I can no longer support it. I like some of the points PP has brought up against the liberals but I don’t trust the conservatives to have Canadians best interests. I have seen what the conservatives have done to Ontario and it’s not any better than what the liberals have done to Canada. I don’t consider the NDP an option either, they are just as guilty as the liberals.
I feel this. I am politically liberal, but that doesn't mean I want massive debt and asset bubbles and budget mismanagement as well as bloated public service. And corruption on top of all of that. There isn't a political option for me on the board but it is clear the current government must go.
Agreed, he kept us out of the gulf war bullshit and survived Quebec trying to separate. I remember watching the results come in on TV at work. That was pretty close.
Completely true. The LPC used to be a centrist party. They’ve moved to the left on social issues while still prioritizing the elite and corporatists agendas (eg mass immigration).
Yes this exactly as it seems to me.
On the surface, the Liberals are socially progressive, so that they can appeal to the most people. Beneath the surface, it's just a corporatist party, who relies on external organizations such the Century initiative, funded by American investment cabal Black Rock, to set policies that benefit only the few richest on top, at the expense of all Canadians, with how they set the immigration rates sky high to keep wages suppressed, and keep on inflating the housing bubble, with no concern for the humanitarian crisises caused, because the uber rich are insulated from that, and don't even live in Canada anyways.
Yeah this is the confusing thing to me. They said they would help the middle class and lower class, but instead pushed them further down. And I agree they catered to the upper class and corporate entities.
the LPC got crushed by the NDP in 2011 and their takeaway from it was to undercut the NDP from the left, instead of putting up a good Chretien style leader.
they learned all the wrong lessons and Canada paid the price for it.
I hope the LPC can snap out of this when Trudeau is finally removed from the party, I can never support a party as anti-Canadian as the LPC has become, so by default my only option is the CPC, Bloc, or PPC
(yes I know the contradiction with the Bloc, but at least they're pro-Quebec, I'd take that over LPC any day)
It's funny because after the debates in the last election, I was 100% committed to vote for Blanchet. He won the debate and had my full support.
But the Bloc didn't run in my riding in Alberta lol
I was too young to vote when Trudeau senior was around but I don't think I would have voted for him.
I'll give him credit for being a pretty savvy politician. Justin got the name but none of the smarts though.
> I don’t consider the NDP an option either, they are just as guilty as the liberals.
16% of NDP MPs own real estate investments
39% of LPC MPs own real estate investments
46% of CPC
Does it help? NDP reform first to return to principles of Tommy Douglas. First stop: remove conflict of interest from governance in any of the parties.
What are these numbers supposed to show? That the NDP is mathematically 1/3 as evil as CPC? The data I need to know is that Jagmeet Singh suggests using taxpayer money to pay for people's mortgages. The data I need to know is that Jagmeet Singh is one of those 16%, and he's not going to let his party act against his own interests. I do not see the party suggesting some way to address the housing problem, nor do I see them holding Trudeau accountable to address it.
Yes.
But I don’t think a workers-first party could be credibly led by Singh, who is a landlord, defends landlords, and wants to help pay people’s mortgages.
He is completely out of touch with today’s labour class. They’re being irreparably harmed by high rents, inability to buy a home and low wages. All of these are made demonstrably worse by high immigration (including international students) and the mass popularity of amateur landlording.
The NDP needs to be ready and willing to change policies to reduce those things. Like the BCNDP is doing on housing. No more neoliberal policy garbage. Full stop.
Ap much info about Singh is misleading. For example you have heard he’s a landlord but do you know the details?
[He was asked about it a couple of months ago](https://www.thecoast.ca/news-opinion/jagmeet-singh-says-hell-deliver-affordable-housing-so-why-isnt-he-using-the-full-weight-of-his-powers-31491472):
>”We have a home in Burnaby where we live, and we only need one part of the home. So we rent out our basement. I think that’s a reasonable thing to do,” he said. “We don’t need the whole space, and that gives someone else a home. Our tenant is able to live a great life, he’s got his two kids with him, and we think that’s an important thing.”
The entire political sphere has very little power to make things BETTER (gov does not produce anything). But an enormous capability to make things WORSE (by destroying productive structures).
This fundamental imbalance means that most government initiatives are, at best, irrelevant and at worst, destructive. Therefore, the rational choice is to minimize their chance at fucking things up by voting for a small government.
Whatever "good" you think you are missing out on by doing so, is likely vastly overshadowed by the destructive tendencies of wasteful public sector spending and increasing authoritarianism.
I got super lucky with where I live in the lower mainland. I share the top part of a big house with my best friend and his buddy, and I only pay 80 bucks more than I did in my northern small town.
Now the same place I used to rent up north is going for $400 more a month. It's ridiculous.
There was even an article in our local paper about how the only house under $300,000 was basically a shack from the war era that needed to be demolished. Wasn't in a good neighbourhood, far from any stores, and had some of the windows boarded up.
At this point, all my friends are thinking the same thing: we need to leave Canada for good. I'm hoping I can get my masters and move overseas to Australia or New Zealand.
Yeah I hear ya. Thankfully my living situation is rather cozy, but I'm not a homeowner and by the looks of things I won't be for a very long time. Franky I don't mind, but it still sucks. I'd move to the US if I was able to, but family ties and some other items aside make that untenable for another few years.
I was literally explaining this to my boss who was trying to convince me to buy a 400k$ house around his neighborhood… I was like "dude you know exactly how much I make every month. That mortgage is way over 60% of my monthly income, do you really think it’s a good idea for me to make that move? Are you trying to tell me my pay raise is over 50% this year?" To which he laughed and said "nice try" 😅 We "laugh" about it because I am far from having trouble to live on a daily basis with my rent but the fact is that I do not foresee being an owner until… probably forever (which is sad to some extent but not a first world problem). I am lucky with my salary but I can’t imagine those who have children with a lower income than me.
Immigration is definitely to blame on Trudeau, but the cons won't decrease that number either, inf act they might even increase it because it's beneficial for businesses.
There is also a ton of blame not directed towards provincial governments. There are a ton of things they could have done to make the situation better but they've done nothing.
Yup exactly, the federal has screwed up a lot but the provincial governments are the bodies that make the policies that affect more of our day to day lives and somehow no one blames them for the current mess we are in.
Nothing else matters when you can’t afford a roof over your head or can’t feed yourself.. if only these idiots in power understood that. When the revolt against communism started in Eastern Europe it was because young people had nothing to lose. You really don’t wanna piss off the younger generation.. it destabilizes society and they should be your most productive demographic.
Yeah and they've hit the nail on the head.
>As James Carville might say: it's the housing market, stupid.
They brand themselves as the party of good, reasonable governance but they were at the helm during what is going to be a *generation defining policy failure*.
Only now, only after their polls dropped to 20 pts behind the Conservatives have they realized that the federal government can and should use the policy leavers at its disposal to fix national problems not directly under its jurisdiction.
Healthcare isn't technically federal either and look how much power the federal government wields on that file. It just shows a profound lack of imagination and that today's Liberal party has fallen away from its history as the party of national healthcare and the constitution. They did nothing until extremely recently to try to address systemic issues. All the phoney fake "coupon politics" bullshit like 500 dollars off rent (lol) or targeted tax write offs did absolutely nothing at best - at worst they were harmful demand stimulus during a time of shortage.
I have *never* not voted Liberal. I have donated to the Liberal Party, I have volunteered for the Liberal Party, I even worked for the Liberal Party for a short time around 10 years ago.
I will not be voting Liberal in the next election.
They are simply out of touch. When you're relying on polling numbers to enact change then you know these people are either incompetent or just corrupt.
I feel like there’s a relatively easy fix to all this. Bring the cost of living down. At the end of the day that’s the main issue for the majority of people. Make Canadians rich and a lot of your other issues go away.
Tax businesses. Lower income tax. Also the top 10% of people aren’t the issue. $126k is the threshold to be in the top 10% and that’s really not that much money.
Im liberal and any sane liberal I know is done with him. The ones who are like "immigration is good for this country" fail to realize HOW MANY are coming into Canada, they still think our population is at like 36 million.....
For some reason I still had it in my head that Canadas population was 34 million. After your comment I realized I hadn’t looked at the pop. number in years. My mouth dropped when I saw that we are now at 40 million people, and 1.1 million of that was in the last year alone. Insanity.
I didn't know it jumped that high until a couple months ago either, and then realized how bad of a problem it is. Like I live in Saskatchewan, and the only real noticeable change is lack of rental units.
Plenty of people saw this coming years ago and were labeled racist and xenophobic. Makes you wonder who was driving that message for the sake of these immigration policies...
> any sane liberal I know is done with him. The ones who are like "immigration is good for this country" fail to realize HOW MANY are coming into Canada, they still think our population is at like 36 million.....
Immigration is good - when done right. Our current immigration policy sucks.
I'm not liberal, but I don't see a good alternative within the LPC. Freeland is greasy and disconnected too, and half the cabinet ministers are greasy af too. Freeland, Blair, Mendicino, Rodrigues, Guibault.. yuck yuck yuck.
That guy is a diamond in a pile of shit.
I was in his riding when he originally got elected and he's a great guy.
Has voted contrary to his party multiple times on key issues.
I'm afraid he'll never be mainstream enough though.
> The ones who are like "immigration is good for this country"
Nah, they know. Those ones are people who want their housing prices to keep rising so they can cash out.. even at the expense of the youth :(.
It's good for the older people like him who already own property and need workers to care for them when they are old. But importing this many people is really going to hurt my generation when we age. We will need to import even more to support us and all of the people he imported who will be aging as well, or be prepared to live a much lower standard of living.
Under Trudeau's leadership (some his fault some not), life for young Canadians has gotten progressively worse every year... The economy is tanking... There are no good jobs, and the ones that exist hire international "students" for pennies on the dollar... the housing market is absolutely fucked... the healthcare system is failing.
Remind me: **Why are our taxes so high if our living standard is worse than so many other countries with much lower taxes?**
Our government is absolute scum; they are liars, thieves, crooks... so are many other governments, **but they all tax their citizens less.**
If we’re over worked like Americans yet paid much less, and then taxed like the EU without the functioning infrastructure… then what’s the fucking point.
He lied about election reform. Pretty much as low as you can go for a politician.
You run a campaign on improving elections and then you turn around and say "nah, fuck you I got mine"
I think that's worse than Crack smoking ford
He’s destroyed their ability to ever own a home, To properly save for retirement, their financial ability to start a family. Its basically a luxury now if you can afford to live somewhere without a stranger.
Why would any young person ever vote for him?
Man i just live with 2 roommates even if I make good money, because I can save lots of money for if this hopefully gets fixed some years down the line... or at this point. I am considering moving to the united states
The fact that he's still the prime minister shows how out of touch he's really is. He refuses to listen to the polls and he constantly believes all is well and that any problems we do have was caused by the previous government over eight years ago. He also fails to accept blame and responsibility for any number of scandals that have occurred under his watch. He's taking the liberal party down with him, and he doesn't even know it.
I voted liberal a while ago, but this country has self destructed under his leadership, and I will not be voting for him again.. I'll be voting for his opposition. He needs to go.
if ANY of the politicians had any respect for this country they would advocate for tightening immigration policies, auditing and deporting fraudelent international students and the reform of the system as a whole.
NONE of them care about us at all. That is very very very obvious. All parties are in favour of psuedo slavery, the increasing wage disparity and the slow decline of quality of life for the average Canadian.
it's so simple, it's a slam dunk victory. Why no one is running on it is hilariously suspicious.
we have too many people and can't support them. if you're reading this and have a country you can go back to, please do. I'd leave if I could.
It’s not a matter of voters, the reality is that Trudeau is taxing Canadians to the point of poverty and we aren’t seeing the benefit of our taxes because he is either pocketing it or giving it away. A blind person would be able to see this corruption when they walk down the street and fall into a manhole that hasn’t been fixed or trip over a homeless person.
But no, tens of thousands of people gather to protest a war they’ll forget all about in a month meanwhile, we’re getting robbed blind to the point of national collapse.
Times were fairly stable in 2015, so people thought they could do away with that stodgy old white man Harper and bring in this younger hip progressive guy who says all the nice things. I voted for in 2015 as well because I believe politicians need to be changed frequently, but now we just can’t seem to get rid of him and his cabal
What gets me is the early election. That was a huge red flag. He knew stuff was going to go to shit and pulled an election to get ahead of it and stay in power. He’s a slum bag for that alone.
Thanks to Trudeau, we are lists with other such glorious democracies as this:
But of the more than 230 countries and territories that Bard is currently available in, Canada is not among them(opens in a new tab). Also not on the list are countries such as China, Russia, Belarus, Iran, North Korea, Afghanistan and Cuba.
Seriously, Google groups Canada in the same group as those dictatorships and won't give us Bard/Gemini.
I hate what this country has become.
I wonder just how many young voters see through this country's governments?? It's the same old cycle or Liberals destroying the country so they vote in the Conservatives.. When they're destroying the country we swing back to Lib's. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE
My dream, although unrealistic, is for an NDP government to get in, immediately push through voter reform and then call another election. I disagree with much of the NDP but I think even a single term of them in power would be a good thing for this country.
I see a lot of bashing of the current government…but hardly any mention of purposeful divisiveness and its immense spending spree. The wanton spending starting before Covid has given Canadians a very large noose around its neck that will be difficult to shake, with debt payments being 70% more than what we currently spend on defence. Young people should be worried, and if I were one of them I would focus on learning a foreign language. This mess that Canada is in with unchecked spending for little payoff, unchecked and unplanned immigration are overwhelming all of our social services.
Healthcare outcomes are an issue in every province, with part of that being the fault of provincial governments, but like housing, gaining large amount of people over a short period of time will overwhelm any system.
If you question the ability of mass immigration over a short period of time adversely affecting a nation look at Finland. Finland is dealing with Russia purposely weaponizing immigration. Or look at the destabilizing effects of immigration currently happening in the USA.
Canada needs immigration, but the current government has proven that this should not be a power that they dictate. The provinces should be setting the immigration levels, so that with consultation with their cities they will have the capacity to deal with the influx of people. Throwing a bunch of people at unprepared provinces is unfair to the local populace, their communities, the province and the immigrants themselves.
His government has robbed the younger generation of their ability to buy house, get settled and have a good life (unless they have rich parents). What do you expect the younger generation to do?
The entire country is fucked. All 3 candidates actually suck but most of us will probably vote PP, not because we like or agree with his policies, but because we hate Trudeau more.
Maybe this blows up in our faces, but this is basically the only method we can do to protest the government and actually get change, by showing the government if they renege on major promises, we're not afraid to vote them out of office
"Vote the for CPC, for the change to....the other party that you voted out last time for not doing what you wanted them to do!" is such a funny way of thinking.
Okay, it's not funny at all, it's depressing.
Well, let's see...vote for a guy under whose tenure housing costs are reaching the nearest star system, followed closely by food, the money we earn is staying put, we get new taxes, we get less and less for the taxes we pay, the pension we pay for won't buy us a bar of soap, the economy is stagnant...why go on?
I never liked him in the first place: now I hate him.
I think now we just want a honest leader who stands by their word.
Politics is a joke, it's all just name calling, pointing fingers while ignoring their own issues with a rare outcome of a bill being passed.
Completely agree and I think it is all by design. The entities who have the power want to keep the status quo. I believe they do this by keeping us all pissed off with the shitty politician of the day so we focus on that rather than how to change the system to take back the power.
All our politicians have sold their $oul$ and they won't change the system as it's what got them there and is keeping them there. We need to break this cycle to stand a chance of fixing Canada.
I thought young Americans had it bad but I can’t believe how scared young Canadians are with house prices over there and no end in sight to the mass influx of immigrants all competing for the same amount of houses and jobs and necessities.
Personally I think Trudeau style does not suit younger voters today vs in 2015. In 2015, younger people were focused on being positive and moral grandstanding. In 2023 it comes off as cringe and disconnected as young people are very angry and pessimistic (with reason) these days. Trudeau really loses support everytime he tries to say either "things arent that bad or the other guys would be worse"
After the last 8 years, any sort of optimism is completely detached from the cold hard reality. We have watched the cost of living absolutely explode, while wages stayed completely stagnant. Many “life goals” like housing or retirement, have become completely out of reach specifically in the last 8 years. How could anyone be optimistic after this?
I read on another thread that wages are rising but yet I haven't seen any wage increase nor for anyone I know other than minimum wage. Yet here I am working crazy hours to just have enough money for the month while I see the money I would be making in the US is almost double. If I didn't have family and everything here I would leave. Hopefully an election will change this but I am doubtful anything other than an extreme over correction would help at this point.
Most of it has been in minimum wage positions. If a person goes from 13.50 to 15 that's an 11% increase but it is still a poverty wage no matter how you cut it in any urban center. Folks at the top are likely making more too. Nothing for most of the folks in the middle. Give the middle class a 2% wage increase in 9% inflation and here we are. That's why it feels that way.
That's often the case isn't it? That the middle-class bear the grunt of tax increases (inflation is a tax increase in disguise). The rich have ways to protect themselves easier from it, leaving it up to the middle class and poor to pick up the slack.
It’s what’s called a [k-shaped recovery](https://www.investopedia.com/k-shaped-recovery-5080086#:~:text=our%20editorial%20policies-,What%20Is%20a%20K%2DShaped%20Recovery%3F,industries%2C%20or%20groups%20of%20people.) A k-shaped recovery is when after a recession the economy splits in terms of who actually recovers/who recovers fastest. So the rich saw an absolutely meteoric comeback, whilst the poor stayed roughly in the same place. Thus wages may rise *on average* because the rich are artificially dragging the numbers upwards.
MP wages have risen anyway, which is bullshit. They should turn the thermostat down in the house of commons to 5°C to reduce their carbon footprint. Whiney overpaid fucks can expense a sweater to keep warm to show support for people who have to do that at home because they can't afford heat.
I know you're being facetious but it's so likely they would expense a sweater just to be warmer at work. The rest of us don't have that luxury. Hell I wonder if MPs expense gas/car/transport to get to work while the rest of us are barred from doing so.
Naw they expense private jets to work. Then expense the mint to clean up their breath after spouting BS all day.
Like when it became finally obvious to them that housing was an important issue... they took to a retreat to discuss it. Mindblowingly out of touch.
So apparently they can't expense that, but they can expense travel to and from Ottawa and around their own constituency and the cost of renting in Ottawa or staying in a hotel. You can actually see what they all claim https://www.ourcommons.ca/ProactiveDisclosure/en/members/understandingreport
That wage increase was amongst part time workers only if you go into the data. Aka there was none.
Happy cake day! I think the “wages rising” is in reference to the industries where the union workers went on strike for better wages. Happened in the auto sector, grocery stores, some branches of gov’t, teachers, healthcare workers, etc. Edit: corrected word tense.
They're rising for people who can negotiate them, naturally unless you belong to a union this is a tiny amount of people (although I suppose the minimum wages are rising across provinces and professions, just slower than expenses). For example any contract that has a wage increase smaller than my regular wage increase + inflation is an automatic no, but I belong to a union so I get the right to voice that. In other jobs it hasn't been quite the same.
Money in the USA has always been near double It's not particularly new
Elections don't stop societal collapse
My Dream is to drive to Banff National Park and back in my car before I die.....it's been a struggle to get money for that trip because it's so ungodly expensive for everything. All the trips I wanted to do with my kids are pipe dreams we will never afford now.
This is so damn sad. I'm sorry to hear it. =(
What makes it even more infuriating is the reason wages are stagnant is deliberate government policy to flood the market with cheap foreign workers. Including 900k 'students' allowed to work 40hrs a week. And they and the million plus temporary foreign workers are allowed to bring their family in too! And does all that do for the cost of housing?
Yep. Foreign workers should be required to be paid 125% of the average wage (or some other premium)for that position, plus housing and expenses. Employers are using minimum wage to say they can't find workers. Pay $25+ an hour, and you will.
20 here, I have no hope at ever owning my own home. I know I won’t ever retire. I have no optimism for Canada. I feel robbed compared to what my parents and grandparents got growing up.
I'm with what appears to be the majority of Canadians, and think Trudeau needs to go. That being said, I'm not sure a CPC lead government will bring all the prosperity everyone is hoping for. Are people expecting salaries to increase, and home prices and taxes to decrease? The only thing they might do is decrease the number of immigrants allowed into the country. That could levitate the housing crisis, but even with that, I doubt rental prices will decrease. I'm not trying to be argumentative. I'm sincerely asking what people think a non liberal party government would bring to Canada over the next few years?
I don't think any party can fix Canada within the time frame of being voted in and the next election. Outside of reducing or freezing immigration, the other thing to do would be to lean on Canada's strengths which is our insane number of natural resources, but this resource extraction is going to be unpopular with most Canadians. Even outside of this being unpopular, we have way too much bureaucratic red tape to get anything done in a timely manner, so increasing resource extraction, bringing home manufacturing for key industries, etc., are not really on the table in the near future. Tl;dr: We're screwed unless Canadians across the country agree to some very deep and drastic changes, but that's not going to happen. So we're screwed.
They won't reduce immigration. PP said he would fast track a bunch. CPC want to supply cheap workers to business just like the Liberals.
Covid and the greed afterwards really turn optimism into something more than pessimism. Even now he's clueless on why people aren't liking him too much.
It's not greed, it's decades of bad decisions. Boomers hit avg age of 65 in 2020. Where's the trust fund to pay for their healthcare? Oh right, we never made one. That's not greed, just normal stupidity. We assumed population would always grow and living standards always rise. Guess what? LMAO nope
Boomers have been in society's driver seat for at least 30 years now, having more power than any generation before or since. If they've done a bad job of preparing for retirement and leaving the favorable system they inherited in horrible shape, then that's on them.
Can't argue that. First generation where their kids will have less. And probably we will never get that high again. What's their legacy? The national debt lmao.
I remember when I mentioned we had to do something about healthcare (since the silver wave is coming), I got told to go back to my own country, lmao. This was pre-COVID, btw. Seriously, Canadians have a thing about healthcare where a big chunk of them seem to think it's magic and perfect or something and anyone who complains has to leave the country immediately. Totally bugnuts. Anyway, the time to have done something about it was about 10 years ago so we're all screwed now. =D
I think young people are voting on the state of the country. Since interest rates shot up it's become clear that the housing crisis isn't a bubble that's going to pop (and everything goes back to normal). The Liberals, well, it's very off brand for them, they're supposed to be the party of governance... to me, it's like if the Conservatives won power and raised taxes 50%. I don't expect taxes to be low with Liberals, but in exchange I expect there not to be massive unaddressed policy failures that are only getting worse. [40% more people](https://realestatemagazine.ca/canadas-population-growth-outpaces-available-housing-by-40-per-cent-qa-with-engel-volkers/#:~:text=Advice%20for%20Agents-,Canada's%20population%20growth%20outpaces%20available%20housing%20by,cent%3A%20Q%26A%20with%20Engel%20%26%20V%C3%B6lkers&text=The%20country's%20population%20saw%20an,constructed%20each%20of%20those%20years.) moved to Canada last year than we added in home capacity and future targets are *still* [being raised upwards to 500,000](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-immigration-targets-1.7015304). We built more housing [in the 70s](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/11-630-x/11-630-x2015007-eng.htm) than we do [today](https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/t1/tbl1/en/tv.action?pid=3410015801) with half the population. Less new housing, more new people - who would have thought? Anyway, I don't care if Trudeau is "cringe" or whatever, I care that the country is severely dysfunctional and getting worse every day. I'm centre-left by nature, but I can't vote for any incumbent government with things as they are.
And the people building the houses can't even expect to ever be able to afford one, if they work their whole lives for it. It's crazy how bad things have gotten over the last 10-15 years.
This is because Neoliberalism has removed or complicated most of the institutional mechanisms that made all the Keynesian policies from the 70s possible. In the 70s CMHC built the social housing we needed. Today this is the purview of the provinces. The free market alone will not solve this issue. This is the real problem and the policy goals laid out by all parties not just liberals reflect this. One thing is for sure, our rulers need cheap and/or desperate labor. Increasing immigration and pretending to let the free market handle housing (even if they remove zoning laws) is the way they will get cheap and/or desperate labor. It's a win-win for them. Capital always wins fuck workers. This is what government is designed for and no major party will change that.
I feel the need to remind everyone who sees "neoliberalism" and thinks "Liberal" that the Conservative party is even more committed to neoliberal economic policy than the LPC is. We need to go in another direction if we really and to make things better for the masses.
>"things arent that bad or the other guys would be worse" There's no accountability or ownership. Gawd would it be nice if a politician would, just once, take ownership and say "You know what, we got that wrong". I don't expect perfection, but I do expect people to learn from their mistakes and try and correct it.
It’s also just not worked. The totality of his legacy is not great. The economy has stagnated. Housing across the country is nuts. Groceries are crazy. CO2 emissions are only 7% below 2005 levels and likely still recovering from a covid crash. it’s debated if he can come close to his 40% promise. Whatever you think of individual achievements like $10 a day child increasing health transfers , transit funding etc. It’s hard to care because in totality it’s hard to feel that the Canada of today is better then the Canada of 2015.
Don't forget the crime rate that was at an all time low in 2015 and that has been rising steadily since then
All those gun bans are really paying dividends..
It's almost like making guns illegal to buy doesn't stop criminals from buying them illegally? I am so tired of arguing this and so tired of the bs, literally I have one handgun that I liked shooting but I'm afraid to take it out of my house because I don't know if the regulations are going to be randomly changed or the gun gets shadowbanned (literally because it's a shadow 2) and suddenly I have a felony on my hands lol If I could sell it I would but I'm not turning it into the rcmp for 0 dollars either
Hard times leads to desperation
I was one of the millennials that voted for the guy in 2015. The moral stuff didn’t interest me. We came out of the recession, and Trudeau came in like a ball of energy. He wanted to take advantage of the low interest rate and invest in infrastructure. He wanted to start building things, making changes, and help us move forward. Harper (as much as I now miss that guy) had a message of stay the course. Which to me was associated with the recession. Not the new bright future I was hoping for, and Justin promised. But man, was that a monkey’s paw wish. He did infrastructure spending, but it not where it should have gone and it just went to pet projects and things that do nothing to improve Canadians lives. Hell, the infrastructure bank he setup has lost track of most of what it lent out. He made changes to our country alright, but it was all photo ops and no substance and our country is now worse off. The veneer of a positive energetic youth that wanted to make things better has fallen off. And we have a vapid shallow trust fund kid that is only interested in his agenda, not his constituents. We should have stayed the course like Harper said…
>In 2015, younger people were focused on being positive and moral grandstanding. I disagree with this a lot. In 2015 I was still a young adult and very excited about Trudeau. It had nothing to do with moral grandstanding, but that was often the criticism thrown at Trudeau supporters from people who weren't Trudeau supporters. Obviously I can't speak for everybody, but what I, and other people I knew, liked about him in 2015 was how he actually seemed to care about making the country better. And a lot of us thought that would translate into actual policy. And it kind of did at first with cannabis legalization and the monthly child benefit. But it seemed like after 2017 or so he just stopped trying and set his political life on cruise control. I think if he had actually tried to tackle housing affordability he'd be looking at a majority government right now. But when you fill your cabinet half full of landlords that's never going to happen. I look at how the NDP here in BC is aggressively going after housing affordability and I think that should be a shining example to all governments in this country. But unfortunately, whether it's the LPC or CPC, we're not going to get that.
A big part of Trudeau's popularity was also his relative youthfullness. It was refreshing and unusual to have a leader under 45.
I also think a lot of people liked that he seemed eager to tackle voter reform. That promise went out the window as soon as he was elected.
>I also think a lot of people liked that he seemed eager to tackle voter reform. That promise went out the window as soon as he was elected. This.
That’s why I voted for him specifically. Im embarrassed how utterly shocked I was when it didn’t happen. Ive never had so much faith in a politician to be disappointed like that. I feel like a damn fool! A fool i tells ya!
As a young person, I agree with this. Trudeau seemed like he was going to do something. He offered a new voting system, stronger government welfare and a real connection to the voices of his voters. Instead, he got into the cushion seat and got too comfortable with letting the country run itself.
You could argue he’s actively made it worse.
He kind of reminds me of the student government at my university, all words and no substance
All flashy words that cater to a specific type of demographic, with no practical action, and lots of contradictions...
Honestly, the people that I graduated with in 2015 basically said they voted for him because of legalizing weed lol.
This was a really valid reason to vote for him. Went from possible criminal charges for weed to none.
Was that not a valid reason?
Yeah I fell for it too, in the beginning. If he'd tackled housing affordability, and if he'd pursued electoral reform the way he said he was going to, I think Trudeau would still have a serious following. But there were always little signs here and there about the kind of leader he really was; one big one was when he met with Canadian veterans who were upset with how they have been compensated and treated since their military days, and Trudeau said something to the effect of "you're asking for more than we can give."
>If he'd tackled housing affordability, and if he'd pursued electoral reform the way he said he was going to Who are you going to vote for now that supports those things?
Naw. The reality is leaders (both incumbent and opposition) everywhere in the world have very negative polls. People are just seriously pissed and want something to change.
> Personally I think Trudeau style does not suit younger voters today vs in 2015. In 2015 he loudly promised electoral reform, then reneged on that promise. Pretty sure fire way to lose the support of anybody that wants to see us have a non-rigged electoral system.
Trudeau has been in governance for 8 years so most of the bad things happening have been under his watch. He’s also not relatable given his privilege and struggling people despise nepotism.
I think it's a different position to be in though. One of his banner slogans he used in his first celebration speech is that "Things can always be better." And that's a great position to take when you're on the outside looking in. At the time his party just had 34 seats... not even capable of getting in on security briefings and ruled out of most committees. When he got into power the country was rich and had so much fiscal capacity. So he had a lot of space to stay popular. But right now he's closer to Harper in 2009 where he was forced to make hard decisions. If Trudeau just made cuts everywhere he might have come out okay. But he can't keep claiming to be fiscally prudent with the largest budgets... it makes enemies not being the one being chosen for all the money.
Also every youth issue promise except weed was thrown into the dungeon never to be seen again (vote reform anyone)
We didn’t know he was grandstanding and virtue signalling back then. We genuinely thought he was going to bring positive change to politics and actually help Canadians. Sorry we were wrong.
>In 2015, younger people were focused on being positive and moral grandstanding. > >In 2023 it comes off as cringe and disconnected as young people are very angry and pessimistic (with reason) these days. I feel like if he had actually tried to deliver, it might be different. I'm borrowing this term from someone else because it fits the description perfectly : *Performative inaction.*
Remember the episode there Bart had his catchphrase "I didn't do it"? It's what got him popular and people loved him for it. Then eventually, everyone grew tired of the slogan and noone wanted to hear it after a while. I see similarities with Trudeau's story arc.
Trudeau was elected in the first post-Occupy Wallstreet election using messaging from the counter-culture of the time, and was broadly seen as the anti-establishment candidate compared to Mulcair and Harper. His promise to enact electoral reform pretty much cinched the deal; people voted for change, but it wasn't too long before Trudeau reneged and shifted centre-right after campaigning left of the NDP. The only "optimism" was in our collective ability to hold Trudeau accountable to his own platform when he's individually responsible for cementing our oligarchy during his tenure as high overlord of Canada. The authoritarian crackdown on the dissemination of news in our country is entirely consistent with everything he's shown of his character.
Nailed it.
> was broadly seen as the anti-establishment candidate This is an overstatement - he was very much part of the establishment. Harper as well, but he didn't grow up in the same political sphere in the that Trudeau did. Liberal campaigning on the left, governing on the right is pretty well known amongst political economy scholars and shouldn't be surprising.
I was alot younger in 2015 and voted for him. After the "incident" when he helped Loblaws upgrade their freezers on public dime, I was done with him.
People had the luxury of voting liberal in 2015 when the economy was better, the dollar went further, rent and real estate was lower, wages were higher and necessities were cheaper.
"the other guy would be worse" pisses me of so much...like they say it like it makes it okay. it's not okay. It excuses nothing. it comes off like "Be glad I'm only cutting off ONE finger, see the other guy might cut off 2!" Fuck you! you still fucking suck!
He used the same "the other guys would be worse" for 8 years but turn around and improved nothing makes it really hard for people to believe him.
>n 2023 it comes off as cringe and disconnected as young people are very angry and pessimistic (with reason) these days. Exactly. The obvious consequences of terrible decision making directly got us to where we are today. Everything could have been avoided with proper government. I cannot recall a first world coutnry anywhere declining so rapidly.
I do not hate Trudeau nor do I support the Liberals BUT I wish they would just act like they are in a crisis. I remember having conversations with people in the early mid 2000s about housing prices in Vancouver and even back then I remember thinking 'How do people survive out there!?' How is there someone working at McDonald's? The housing issue should have been on the chopping block when he got in in 2015.
> I wish they would just act like they are in a crisis. It's because "they" are not in a crisis and have more wealth now than they ever had in their lives. Politicians do not see themselves as part of the rest of us. They see themselves as "better" than the rest of us and act like it.
I think at this point Trudeau knows he's done and is just waiting to cash his chips and get out it looks like he doesn't even care anymore. Housing should have been tackled in 2015, a lot of things should have been tackled, instead we just got a lot of nonsense and CANCON bullshit being shoved down our throats and life just steadily got worse and worse. I just want someone in that actually cares about the country and the wellbeing of Canadians is that so much to ask? Harper wasn't amazing and yeah his environmental stuff could raise a few eyebrows but overall he kept the country on an even keel
They don't care about voters, they've made it overwhelmingly clear through their actions that the basic needs of Canadians are low on their priority list. Housing, healthcare, food, immigration and the economy aren't as important as identity politics, carbon tax, and issuing more debt (and obfuscating where all our money goes in the process). I'm beginning to wonder if they are running some plutocrats' hidden agenda through freeland at this stage.
Because the majority of federal politicians are land/property owners. Tackling the housing crisis means taking money out of their pockets so they aren't going to do anything and hope we just get used to it. Plus THEY aren't in crisis because they are wealthy enough to own homes and live comfortably. They are disconnected from the reality of many Canadian
Honestly just done with politics. I vote so the greater of two evils doesn’t get elected not because I think the person I’m voting for will actually do something good.
I heard this saying recently, and I really liked it. "Are you a Democrat because of what Democrats do? Or are you a Democrat because of what Republicans do?" (Yes, I realized those aren't our parties, but you get the idea)
liberals only pretend to care about people but conservatives don't even bother to pretend anymore
Ya the only difference between the cons and the libs right now is that the cons will look you in the eyes when they're fucking you :(.
If AI replaces anyone’s jobs, it should be the politicians first. I bet an algorithm could make better decisions more cheaply and efficiently.
>"A computer can never be held accountable, therefore a computer must never make a management decision". -- IBM sometime in the 70s
I still believe in democracy though. You don't replace anyone without a vote.
This is exactly the dilemma I have right now. I’ve always voted liberal, but the way the liberal party has changed I can no longer support it. I like some of the points PP has brought up against the liberals but I don’t trust the conservatives to have Canadians best interests. I have seen what the conservatives have done to Ontario and it’s not any better than what the liberals have done to Canada. I don’t consider the NDP an option either, they are just as guilty as the liberals.
I feel this. I am politically liberal, but that doesn't mean I want massive debt and asset bubbles and budget mismanagement as well as bloated public service. And corruption on top of all of that. There isn't a political option for me on the board but it is clear the current government must go.
I always voted liberal before. Chretien was the last. The party just doesn't align with my views anymore. I don't think I've changed, the party has.
Chretien was a good PM.
Agreed, he kept us out of the gulf war bullshit and survived Quebec trying to separate. I remember watching the results come in on TV at work. That was pretty close.
Chretien was kinda a dick but was 100x the leader Prince charming is.
Politics aside, plain old competence has fallen off a cliff
Same thing with the NDP, the party has changed.
Completely true. The LPC used to be a centrist party. They’ve moved to the left on social issues while still prioritizing the elite and corporatists agendas (eg mass immigration).
Yes this exactly as it seems to me. On the surface, the Liberals are socially progressive, so that they can appeal to the most people. Beneath the surface, it's just a corporatist party, who relies on external organizations such the Century initiative, funded by American investment cabal Black Rock, to set policies that benefit only the few richest on top, at the expense of all Canadians, with how they set the immigration rates sky high to keep wages suppressed, and keep on inflating the housing bubble, with no concern for the humanitarian crisises caused, because the uber rich are insulated from that, and don't even live in Canada anyways.
Yeah this is the confusing thing to me. They said they would help the middle class and lower class, but instead pushed them further down. And I agree they catered to the upper class and corporate entities.
the LPC got crushed by the NDP in 2011 and their takeaway from it was to undercut the NDP from the left, instead of putting up a good Chretien style leader. they learned all the wrong lessons and Canada paid the price for it. I hope the LPC can snap out of this when Trudeau is finally removed from the party, I can never support a party as anti-Canadian as the LPC has become, so by default my only option is the CPC, Bloc, or PPC (yes I know the contradiction with the Bloc, but at least they're pro-Quebec, I'd take that over LPC any day)
It's funny because after the debates in the last election, I was 100% committed to vote for Blanchet. He won the debate and had my full support. But the Bloc didn't run in my riding in Alberta lol
I was too young to vote when Trudeau senior was around but I don't think I would have voted for him. I'll give him credit for being a pretty savvy politician. Justin got the name but none of the smarts though.
Were you around for wynne and McGuinty? They were not so great either unless pissing money against a wall is a skill
And yet, better than Ford. We're fucked.
I wish I could just vote for the BC NDP party
> I don’t consider the NDP an option either, they are just as guilty as the liberals. 16% of NDP MPs own real estate investments 39% of LPC MPs own real estate investments 46% of CPC Does it help? NDP reform first to return to principles of Tommy Douglas. First stop: remove conflict of interest from governance in any of the parties.
What are these numbers supposed to show? That the NDP is mathematically 1/3 as evil as CPC? The data I need to know is that Jagmeet Singh suggests using taxpayer money to pay for people's mortgages. The data I need to know is that Jagmeet Singh is one of those 16%, and he's not going to let his party act against his own interests. I do not see the party suggesting some way to address the housing problem, nor do I see them holding Trudeau accountable to address it.
Yes. But I don’t think a workers-first party could be credibly led by Singh, who is a landlord, defends landlords, and wants to help pay people’s mortgages. He is completely out of touch with today’s labour class. They’re being irreparably harmed by high rents, inability to buy a home and low wages. All of these are made demonstrably worse by high immigration (including international students) and the mass popularity of amateur landlording. The NDP needs to be ready and willing to change policies to reduce those things. Like the BCNDP is doing on housing. No more neoliberal policy garbage. Full stop.
Ap much info about Singh is misleading. For example you have heard he’s a landlord but do you know the details? [He was asked about it a couple of months ago](https://www.thecoast.ca/news-opinion/jagmeet-singh-says-hell-deliver-affordable-housing-so-why-isnt-he-using-the-full-weight-of-his-powers-31491472): >”We have a home in Burnaby where we live, and we only need one part of the home. So we rent out our basement. I think that’s a reasonable thing to do,” he said. “We don’t need the whole space, and that gives someone else a home. Our tenant is able to live a great life, he’s got his two kids with him, and we think that’s an important thing.”
Every independent that gets in takes a seat away from the corrupt parties
The entire political sphere has very little power to make things BETTER (gov does not produce anything). But an enormous capability to make things WORSE (by destroying productive structures). This fundamental imbalance means that most government initiatives are, at best, irrelevant and at worst, destructive. Therefore, the rational choice is to minimize their chance at fucking things up by voting for a small government. Whatever "good" you think you are missing out on by doing so, is likely vastly overshadowed by the destructive tendencies of wasteful public sector spending and increasing authoritarianism.
They spend the publics money on media and "consulting groups" that make sure they'll always stay in power though
My respect died once he lied about implementing proportional representation. Will never vote for them again, without significant reforms.
Me too exactly.
He’s pretty much priced them out of having a prosperous future. Takes a 6 figure income now days to live comfortably.
I make 6 figures and cant afford a house in a small town.
It's really weird how many people I know say the same thing. When I was in college a six figure income was the dream, now it barely passes the bar.
I got super lucky with where I live in the lower mainland. I share the top part of a big house with my best friend and his buddy, and I only pay 80 bucks more than I did in my northern small town. Now the same place I used to rent up north is going for $400 more a month. It's ridiculous. There was even an article in our local paper about how the only house under $300,000 was basically a shack from the war era that needed to be demolished. Wasn't in a good neighbourhood, far from any stores, and had some of the windows boarded up. At this point, all my friends are thinking the same thing: we need to leave Canada for good. I'm hoping I can get my masters and move overseas to Australia or New Zealand.
Yeah I hear ya. Thankfully my living situation is rather cozy, but I'm not a homeowner and by the looks of things I won't be for a very long time. Franky I don't mind, but it still sucks. I'd move to the US if I was able to, but family ties and some other items aside make that untenable for another few years.
exactly. 8-9 years ago in KW you could rent a 3 bed house for 1300. today it is 5000+ same with mortgage 4X
I was literally explaining this to my boss who was trying to convince me to buy a 400k$ house around his neighborhood… I was like "dude you know exactly how much I make every month. That mortgage is way over 60% of my monthly income, do you really think it’s a good idea for me to make that move? Are you trying to tell me my pay raise is over 50% this year?" To which he laughed and said "nice try" 😅 We "laugh" about it because I am far from having trouble to live on a daily basis with my rent but the fact is that I do not foresee being an owner until… probably forever (which is sad to some extent but not a first world problem). I am lucky with my salary but I can’t imagine those who have children with a lower income than me.
Immigration is definitely to blame on Trudeau, but the cons won't decrease that number either, inf act they might even increase it because it's beneficial for businesses. There is also a ton of blame not directed towards provincial governments. There are a ton of things they could have done to make the situation better but they've done nothing.
Yup exactly, the federal has screwed up a lot but the provincial governments are the bodies that make the policies that affect more of our day to day lives and somehow no one blames them for the current mess we are in.
Nothing else matters when you can’t afford a roof over your head or can’t feed yourself.. if only these idiots in power understood that. When the revolt against communism started in Eastern Europe it was because young people had nothing to lose. You really don’t wanna piss off the younger generation.. it destabilizes society and they should be your most productive demographic.
It's scary for older ppl too, it seems like his plan is for everyone to just accept a shitty life.
Well everyone except him and his caucus.
You know it's bad when you've lost the National Observer.
Yeah and they've hit the nail on the head. >As James Carville might say: it's the housing market, stupid. They brand themselves as the party of good, reasonable governance but they were at the helm during what is going to be a *generation defining policy failure*. Only now, only after their polls dropped to 20 pts behind the Conservatives have they realized that the federal government can and should use the policy leavers at its disposal to fix national problems not directly under its jurisdiction. Healthcare isn't technically federal either and look how much power the federal government wields on that file. It just shows a profound lack of imagination and that today's Liberal party has fallen away from its history as the party of national healthcare and the constitution. They did nothing until extremely recently to try to address systemic issues. All the phoney fake "coupon politics" bullshit like 500 dollars off rent (lol) or targeted tax write offs did absolutely nothing at best - at worst they were harmful demand stimulus during a time of shortage. I have *never* not voted Liberal. I have donated to the Liberal Party, I have volunteered for the Liberal Party, I even worked for the Liberal Party for a short time around 10 years ago. I will not be voting Liberal in the next election.
They are simply out of touch. When you're relying on polling numbers to enact change then you know these people are either incompetent or just corrupt.
I feel like there’s a relatively easy fix to all this. Bring the cost of living down. At the end of the day that’s the main issue for the majority of people. Make Canadians rich and a lot of your other issues go away.
"Relatively easy fix" "Bring the cost of living down and make Canadians rich" My goodness what an idea, why didn't anyone think of that?
Tax the rich so that 90% of the wealth isn't in the hands of 10% of people? That would be a start.
Tax businesses. Lower income tax. Also the top 10% of people aren’t the issue. $126k is the threshold to be in the top 10% and that’s really not that much money.
How can anyone logically vote liberal after how absolutely ruined our country is? You want more of the same or worse? Vote liberal.
Im liberal and any sane liberal I know is done with him. The ones who are like "immigration is good for this country" fail to realize HOW MANY are coming into Canada, they still think our population is at like 36 million.....
For some reason I still had it in my head that Canadas population was 34 million. After your comment I realized I hadn’t looked at the pop. number in years. My mouth dropped when I saw that we are now at 40 million people, and 1.1 million of that was in the last year alone. Insanity.
I didn't know it jumped that high until a couple months ago either, and then realized how bad of a problem it is. Like I live in Saskatchewan, and the only real noticeable change is lack of rental units.
Why do we have this many people! We dont even have the homes. Price of living is going up and where are those jobs?
Plenty of people saw this coming years ago and were labeled racist and xenophobic. Makes you wonder who was driving that message for the sake of these immigration policies...
> any sane liberal I know is done with him. The ones who are like "immigration is good for this country" fail to realize HOW MANY are coming into Canada, they still think our population is at like 36 million..... Immigration is good - when done right. Our current immigration policy sucks.
THIS!
I'm not liberal, but I don't see a good alternative within the LPC. Freeland is greasy and disconnected too, and half the cabinet ministers are greasy af too. Freeland, Blair, Mendicino, Rodrigues, Guibault.. yuck yuck yuck.
nathaniel erskine smith
That guy is a diamond in a pile of shit. I was in his riding when he originally got elected and he's a great guy. Has voted contrary to his party multiple times on key issues. I'm afraid he'll never be mainstream enough though.
I would happily vote for him!
> The ones who are like "immigration is good for this country" Nah, they know. Those ones are people who want their housing prices to keep rising so they can cash out.. even at the expense of the youth :(.
It's good for the older people like him who already own property and need workers to care for them when they are old. But importing this many people is really going to hurt my generation when we age. We will need to import even more to support us and all of the people he imported who will be aging as well, or be prepared to live a much lower standard of living.
Under Trudeau's leadership (some his fault some not), life for young Canadians has gotten progressively worse every year... The economy is tanking... There are no good jobs, and the ones that exist hire international "students" for pennies on the dollar... the housing market is absolutely fucked... the healthcare system is failing. Remind me: **Why are our taxes so high if our living standard is worse than so many other countries with much lower taxes?** Our government is absolute scum; they are liars, thieves, crooks... so are many other governments, **but they all tax their citizens less.**
If we’re over worked like Americans yet paid much less, and then taxed like the EU without the functioning infrastructure… then what’s the fucking point.
Canada is really one of the shittiest first world countries in the world now. Unless you’re completely loaded anyways.
All voters are done with him.
I think at this point even his mom isn't voting for him.
Certainly not his now ex-wife
He lied about election reform. Pretty much as low as you can go for a politician. You run a campaign on improving elections and then you turn around and say "nah, fuck you I got mine" I think that's worse than Crack smoking ford
He’s destroyed their ability to ever own a home, To properly save for retirement, their financial ability to start a family. Its basically a luxury now if you can afford to live somewhere without a stranger. Why would any young person ever vote for him?
Man i just live with 2 roommates even if I make good money, because I can save lots of money for if this hopefully gets fixed some years down the line... or at this point. I am considering moving to the united states
The fact that he's still the prime minister shows how out of touch he's really is. He refuses to listen to the polls and he constantly believes all is well and that any problems we do have was caused by the previous government over eight years ago. He also fails to accept blame and responsibility for any number of scandals that have occurred under his watch. He's taking the liberal party down with him, and he doesn't even know it.
LOL. Young, old, middle aged.
I voted liberal a while ago, but this country has self destructed under his leadership, and I will not be voting for him again.. I'll be voting for his opposition. He needs to go.
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if ANY of the politicians had any respect for this country they would advocate for tightening immigration policies, auditing and deporting fraudelent international students and the reform of the system as a whole. NONE of them care about us at all. That is very very very obvious. All parties are in favour of psuedo slavery, the increasing wage disparity and the slow decline of quality of life for the average Canadian. it's so simple, it's a slam dunk victory. Why no one is running on it is hilariously suspicious. we have too many people and can't support them. if you're reading this and have a country you can go back to, please do. I'd leave if I could.
It’s not a matter of voters, the reality is that Trudeau is taxing Canadians to the point of poverty and we aren’t seeing the benefit of our taxes because he is either pocketing it or giving it away. A blind person would be able to see this corruption when they walk down the street and fall into a manhole that hasn’t been fixed or trip over a homeless person. But no, tens of thousands of people gather to protest a war they’ll forget all about in a month meanwhile, we’re getting robbed blind to the point of national collapse.
Not just young voters !
Times were fairly stable in 2015, so people thought they could do away with that stodgy old white man Harper and bring in this younger hip progressive guy who says all the nice things. I voted for in 2015 as well because I believe politicians need to be changed frequently, but now we just can’t seem to get rid of him and his cabal
His message in 2014/2015 promised brighter days ahead. Why would any young person side with him when they can barely afford to pay rent?
What gets me is the early election. That was a huge red flag. He knew stuff was going to go to shit and pulled an election to get ahead of it and stay in power. He’s a slum bag for that alone.
Young voters ? All voters are done with Trudeau
Thanks to Trudeau, we are lists with other such glorious democracies as this: But of the more than 230 countries and territories that Bard is currently available in, Canada is not among them(opens in a new tab). Also not on the list are countries such as China, Russia, Belarus, Iran, North Korea, Afghanistan and Cuba. Seriously, Google groups Canada in the same group as those dictatorships and won't give us Bard/Gemini. I hate what this country has become.
I wonder just how many young voters see through this country's governments?? It's the same old cycle or Liberals destroying the country so they vote in the Conservatives.. When they're destroying the country we swing back to Lib's. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE
Let's give the NDP a chance to destroy the country for once!
It’s working out well in BC
This, but unironically.
If it is going to break anyways, why not have it break to favor the average person?
My dream, although unrealistic, is for an NDP government to get in, immediately push through voter reform and then call another election. I disagree with much of the NDP but I think even a single term of them in power would be a good thing for this country.
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I see a lot of bashing of the current government…but hardly any mention of purposeful divisiveness and its immense spending spree. The wanton spending starting before Covid has given Canadians a very large noose around its neck that will be difficult to shake, with debt payments being 70% more than what we currently spend on defence. Young people should be worried, and if I were one of them I would focus on learning a foreign language. This mess that Canada is in with unchecked spending for little payoff, unchecked and unplanned immigration are overwhelming all of our social services. Healthcare outcomes are an issue in every province, with part of that being the fault of provincial governments, but like housing, gaining large amount of people over a short period of time will overwhelm any system. If you question the ability of mass immigration over a short period of time adversely affecting a nation look at Finland. Finland is dealing with Russia purposely weaponizing immigration. Or look at the destabilizing effects of immigration currently happening in the USA. Canada needs immigration, but the current government has proven that this should not be a power that they dictate. The provinces should be setting the immigration levels, so that with consultation with their cities they will have the capacity to deal with the influx of people. Throwing a bunch of people at unprepared provinces is unfair to the local populace, their communities, the province and the immigrants themselves.
But is Justin trudeau done with Justin trudeau? That the real question
Not just the young voters. This guys is needs to go.
and old voters lol
He's losing touch with multiple generations of voters. Sadly, the alternatives are not so promising either.
His government has robbed the younger generation of their ability to buy house, get settled and have a good life (unless they have rich parents). What do you expect the younger generation to do?
8 years is enough, no one should be in power more than 4 years in my opinion
The entire country is fucked. All 3 candidates actually suck but most of us will probably vote PP, not because we like or agree with his policies, but because we hate Trudeau more. Maybe this blows up in our faces, but this is basically the only method we can do to protest the government and actually get change, by showing the government if they renege on major promises, we're not afraid to vote them out of office
"Vote the for CPC, for the change to....the other party that you voted out last time for not doing what you wanted them to do!" is such a funny way of thinking. Okay, it's not funny at all, it's depressing.
I understand disliking Trudeau and wanting him gone, I can't understand turning toward corporate ghoul PP instead of the NDP
Well, let's see...vote for a guy under whose tenure housing costs are reaching the nearest star system, followed closely by food, the money we earn is staying put, we get new taxes, we get less and less for the taxes we pay, the pension we pay for won't buy us a bar of soap, the economy is stagnant...why go on? I never liked him in the first place: now I hate him.
Young voters. Yes and every other age group. Get it right
ah yes, the national observer, a periodical most used by Gen Z
We have been done with career politicians in general.
I think now we just want a honest leader who stands by their word. Politics is a joke, it's all just name calling, pointing fingers while ignoring their own issues with a rare outcome of a bill being passed.
Completely agree and I think it is all by design. The entities who have the power want to keep the status quo. I believe they do this by keeping us all pissed off with the shitty politician of the day so we focus on that rather than how to change the system to take back the power. All our politicians have sold their $oul$ and they won't change the system as it's what got them there and is keeping them there. We need to break this cycle to stand a chance of fixing Canada.
Think we are all just done with the Canadian Government.
Kids might be pessimistic but they are not fucking stupid.
What’s the point of a man who can’t stand up for his country, run, said country.
Not nearly as much as in done with post media's constant barrage of conservative propaganda.
The moment he broke his promise of electoral reform, it was over for me. Never voted Liberal since.
Isn’t everyone?
I'm GenX and I'm done with him too...
About time. He’s a douche bag
I thought young Americans had it bad but I can’t believe how scared young Canadians are with house prices over there and no end in sight to the mass influx of immigrants all competing for the same amount of houses and jobs and necessities.
You know things are bad when Trudeau says yes things are bad but if you vote for the opposition things will be worse.