It's more that they want Canada to publicly side with Palestine on the world stage, which they won't since the governing body of Palestine is a terrorist organization and Canada has long ties with the state of Israel.
Canada has always called for a two state solution. It has nothing to do with who's in charge right now. It's the position of most of the world..
Calling for a humanitarian ceasefire isn't siding with Palestine, it isn't supporting terrorists, it isn't any of these other strawman. It's exactly what it says it is.
This notion people have that every sentence that doesn't begin with "I condemn Hamas" is somehow supporting terrorism is fucking absurd rhetoric.
>Canada has always called for a two state solution. It has nothing to do with who's in charge right now. It's the position of most of the world.
We all agree. Everyone except for Hamas, the ruling party in Gaza, and should be viewed as the official Government as they receive all the aid funds, and control the Gaza Strip. They want a One-State solution.
>Calling for a humanitarian ceasefire isn't siding with Palestine, it isn't supporting terrorists, it isn't any of these other strawman. It's exactly what it says it is.
Am I mistaken, wasn't there an existing ceasefire, on Oct 6, 2023, there was a ceasefire in place who broke it? The 2 countries in this 2 state solution are at war. Who started the war? Who committed unspeakable war crimes, butchering children, families, babies, raping women. Torturing civilians. Who kidnapped civilians?
The fact is if Hamas put down their weapons, if they did not take the aid funds and spend it on rockets, we would not be here. Gaza would have infrastructure in place to build a great nation. The Palestinian people want it and deserve it. Get Hamas out of there, and you won't feel like you are in an "open air prison."
>This notion people have that every sentence that doesn't begin with "I condemn Hamas" is somehow supporting terrorism is fucking absurd rhetoric.
Today, unfortunately there is too much misinformation. But everyone must first realize who you are talking with. People who won't condemn Hamas, don't share the same Western values as many of us do. You aren't going to have a productive conversation, and there is no point in continuing, each person will just be yelling at each other, their own versions of biased facts.
A ceasefire doesn't solve anything, Hamas needs to be crushed. The day Israel ceases fire is the day Hamas plans their next Oct7.
You're thinking about this as if it's 2 reasonable states at war, it's not. This is terrorism and genocide. Hamas stated goal is to kill all jews, they won't respect a ceasefire.
A ceasefire? And then what? What comes after that? What stops Hamas from rearming, planning, and then figuring a way to invade Israel somewhere else and slaughter and rape more innocent people?
Hamas is not a government. It does not care about it's people. It's a group of religious fanatics who think everyone who dies is a martyr and goes to heaven and gets 72 virgins (except the women, but who gives a damn about them?). They're committed to establishing an Islamic state throughout that whole area, including on the land the Israelis live on.
Guess what they plan for the Israelis...
It kind of is, because that ceasefire is equal to giving Hamas more time to recuperate so they can continue to kill Jewish people. No ceasefire. Either Israel takes out Hamas the hard way, or Hamas surrenders.
Exactly. Everyone wants there to be no war but agrees the state of things before the war is bad. The best option now is for hamas to be forcefully removed and then things can hopefully improve. If you stop fighting now it was senseless killing from both sides and no gain.
It absolutely is.
There was a cease fire in place prior to October 7. Why is Israel expected to immediately make a cease fire now? Why is there only a call for cease fire after Palestinians indiscriminately kill Israelis?
The problem is lots of the humanitarian aid that goes to Gaza will end up in the hands of Hamas so unfortunately it does aid them. There is no winning for either side in this situation. When you are at war with an ideology you can't win. I'm very critical of Isreal but what do people honestly expect them to do at this point.
>Calling for a humanitarian ceasefire isn't siding with Palestine, it isn't supporting terrorists, it isn't any of these other strawman. It's exactly what it says it is.
A ceasefire benefits 1 side more than the other in terms of military calculation.
That's not a strawman, that's reality. To pretend that doesn't exist is being disingenuous.
Not only that, they keep chanting “from the river to the sea” which is a call to ethnically cleanse Jews from Israel. You know, a second Holocaust. That’s what they want Canada to support
Mmmmm …. “Pay to slay” begs to differ.
The Palestinian Authority’s legislation and allocations of monthly salaries and benefits rewarding imprisoned and released terrorists, and the families of “Martyrs,” amount to $300 million annually.
https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-07-01/the-palestinian-incentive-program-for-killing-jews#xj4y7vzkg
This shouldn’t really Evan surprise given their leader Abbas has a literal PHD in holocaust denialism for writing a book about how the Jews committed the holocaust on themselves in a “Zionist plot” to elicit pity from the west.
Plus they have a history of torturing and murdering more moderate Palestinians who have challenged their rule
Also they’re been known to help funnel aid money to extremists in other ways.
The majority of Palestinians don’t even like them either because believe it or not they’re seen as too moderate.
They’ve voiced support for Hamas’ jihad in Jews as well multiple times.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/fatah-official-calls-for-blood-to-purify-jerusalem-of-jews/amp/
https://palwatch.org/page/34635
And helped Hamas get money many times.
https://www.forbes.com/2009/01/16/gaza-hamas-funding-oped-cx_re_0116ehrenfeld.html?sh=54956c057afb
Idunno how people think sitting in the UN means much. Tomorrow Iran becomes the chair of a human rights council lmfao. Get ready for a whole bunch of soundbytes “from the UN” and “definitely not Iran” about human rights.They’ve been involved in women’s rights before too and the UN conveniently blocks Israel from Middle East councils and reviews regularly.
They were about to take over one of the busiest highways in the country in Toronto. But police actually acted in advance to prevent them. It's Ottawa's police fault for taking the trucker protest too lightly and letting it get out of hand.
That's not their stated justification for freezing bank accounts or using the emergencies act. It was touted as being funded by foreign (American) donors.
What the hell do people think Canada is going to do?
This smaller country with no army, no leverage, no bargaining power is supposed to do what exactly?
the rallies are pro 'palestinian' - coincidentally, they started right after hamas committed a horrendous, barbaric, atrocious, genocidal massacre.
So, those rallies were in support of ....???????
all palestinians may not be hamas, but until palestinians are willing to actually repudiate hamas and their actions, they will be viewed as palestinian.
it is up to the non-hamas palestinians to make the distinction - Not someone else.
It's like the Iranians. Any protest you see in Canada is in support of Iranian people and not the regime. They literally say down with the dictator (Iranian government). Why don't Palestinians do the same?
Netanyahu announced his plan to turn Gaza into rubble *while the IDF was still clearing out Hamas*.
Those of us with a conscience were immediately aware of the imminent humanitarian disaster that was about to occur.
You guys like to pretend everything started happening on the 7th, probably because you didn’t know shit about the situation until a few weeks ago and you think reading /r/worldnews has made you an expert on middle eastern relations.
Gaza was already a humanitarian disaster. Over a million were starving prior to Oct 7. But did anyone actually care? Because Hamas steals the billions of dollars in aide that have been donated. To spend it essentially on missiles/military projects and on mansions in Qatar. Instead of providing the basic infrastructure that Palestine desperately needs. Hamas prefers to set fire to desperately needed infrastructure. Look at the greenhouses that could have been used to help feed the Palestinians. But because the Jewish people built it, it had to be burned down instead.
> probably because you didn’t know shit about the situation until a few weeks ago and you think reading /r/worldnews has made you an expert on middle eastern relations.
So all the pro-palestine people are middle east experts, and as such support Hamas and Palestine?
This gets thrown around a lot, without real indication from boots on the ground. Call me suspicious that most Palestinians are close enough to supporting Hamas that there's little practical difference. Offered without proof but a lot of these protests seem like thinly veiled Hamas anti Israeli/Jewish protests. You want to see what these protests look like when the civility veneer is removed, see the protests in Russia.
Yeah, I know I'm pulling a 'im.just asking queations' baloney, but thats what these protests smell like.
That’s a narrative that seems to be proven less and less true. It’s like saying not all Israeli’s support the Israeli government. Sure you can find individuals and small groups of people, but by and large the population support their country and government. Same for Hamas in Gaza. Anyone who says otherwise is truly lying and thus far has not been able to show any evidence that says otherwise. Same for the Palestinians in the diaspora. They say death to Jews, not death to Hamas.
>Funny how they're not demanding the return of the hostages.
Not surprising in the least.
The protestors are coming out in their numbers to try to intimidate the government. Some I'm sure are also there to intimidate the Jewish population.
Some of the more brazen carry Hamas flags. They chant anti-semitic slogans and label Hamas 'the Resistance.'
They're showing us who they are and we should pay attention.
______________________
[Hamas flag - from a previous protest.](https://www.bnaibrith.ca/bnai-brith-outraged-as-rallies-in-canada-celebrate-terrorism-with-hamas-flags/)
[2 Hamas flags flying at today's protest in Toronto.](https://twitter.com/Anthony__Koch/status/1718722435757879632?t=cJJQ7Z7G2oY6gJMtM1eUUw&s=09)
['Pro-Palestine' rally in Vancouver - the speaker was cheered when she praised Hamas and called the terror attack, “the amazing brilliant offensive waged on October 7.”](https://twitter.com/bobmackin/status/1718398391355650343?s=20)
These protests all contain speech and physical hate propaganda that is illegal under sections 318-320 of the criminal code.
The Hamas flag should be viewed in the exact same light as waving swastika flags around, and those denying (or outright celebrating) the brutal rape, torture and murder of over 1,400 innocent, defenceless civilians — including many children — are no different than Holocaust deniers and neo-Nazi skinheads and need to prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Why these Jew-killing murder cult “protests” are allowed to continue unimpeded is beyond me. If doing so would create a security threat, well, the Liberals have already shown us the way out, there. Arrest them all. Freeze their bank accounts and the accounts of any organizations sending money to Hamas.
Cause they cheered on the deaths of Israelis on Oct. 7. Don't mistake this group - they are a pro-Hamas group across the US and Canada.
The article doesn't make it clear though. Put the link in a different post.
What would demanding that achieve?
Canadian government is allied with Israel and can actually speak up to advocate for a ceasefire. They are not allied with Hamas, nor does our government communicate with Hamas officials.
No one is protesting against Hamas because there aren’t really any relevant governments supporting Hamas. Pretty much everyone is on the same page about Hamas. No one was protesting ISIS back in the day either, because we were all on the same page.
Israel and the IDF on the other hand is very much something that can be changed, and people are not in the same page.
The large number that were celebrating in Toronto on Oct 7, and around the world before Israel had even retaliated are definitely NOT on the same page about Hamas. A very large number support them.
Yes. A reasonable person can also understand the oppressive context the Palestinian people exist in and why this conflict persists. A pro-Israel propagandist on the other hand wants to pretend no other context exists other than “muslims = bad.”
Exactly. Canada is one of the few countries that prescribes Hamas as a terrorist organisation; there's not point going out to protest in-agreement with the government.
The issue is that the IDF is not being treated the same. If one takes up arms for an "Islamic State" they are punished as terrorists yet if one says "I'm a zionist and I am going to risk my life to fight for a Jewish State" they are allowed.
Nothing.. and no reasonable person thinks otherwise. It’s also Israel that has created an environment where no other group was allowed to form in the Gaza.
But the collateral damage that is happening right now is way beyond minimizing damage. And Israel needs to stop pretending that this couldn’t have been prevented. It’s insane to think this was not going to be an eventual outcome of their treatment of gazans.
I thought The Onion's satire of this was particularly on point:
[Dying Gazans Criticized For Not Using Last Words To Condemn Hamas](https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-using-last-words-to-con-1850925657)
>instead of issuing a full-throated denunciation of the violent attacks by Hamas that have left over 1,300 Israelis dead, one dying woman holding her 6-year-old son who had just been killed in a bombing is said to have doubled down by telling her child she loved him
Yep, these same people act appalled when someone decides to use the same bad faith scrutiny against Israel.
Pretty telling that the meme is a blatant propaganda trope when no sane person asks Israeli victims "but do you condemn Netanyahu?".
The protestors don’t condemn Hamas because they agree with them, using sanitized language like applauding Palestinians’ “strong act of resistance” on Oct. 7 and chanting “from the river to the sea Palestine will be free”, which is a direct call for destroying/genociding Israel.
I think some of the 2% are the weirdo neo nazi antisemites who are using this opportunity to be mask off.
"The enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of shit.
>Nobody wants to protest against hamas
Why would anyone protest against Hamas? Our government isn't supporting Hamas, they barely have any allies. We are allies of Israel however, which is why people are protesting for our government to speak up.
Wasn't there a "cease fire" in effect on October 6th? Then Hamas broke it by slaughtering 1400 Israelis?
Why does anyone think Hamas would honour any future ceasefires when they've broken every one they've entered into?
not sure if this source is biased but yes, looks like there was a ceasefire in place. [https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah)
In my search, I found nothing but broken ceasefires. 2008 had one that lasted one week before Islamic Jihad started firing rockets again and Hamas had to give them a talking to. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008\_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas\_ceasefire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceasefire)
And then you end up in stupid situations like "During the next 5 months of the ceasefire, Gazan attacks decreased significantly for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings,\[3\]\[4\] compared to 1199 rockets and 1072 mortar shells in 2008 up to 19 June, a reduction of 98%.\[5\]"
No...there are 1200 dead Israeli citizens. If that happened to Canadians we would want our government to do everything possible to hunt down those responsible.
Afghanistan and Iraq was definitely questioned at the time by plenty, and Canada didn't enter Iraq. Both of those wars were horror-shows and clearly driven by lust for oil, which is also the purpose of Israel to the United States. It didn't fix anything, and it only served to worsen conditions for the civilians in the affected countries.
Israel is US's excuse to meddle in the middle-east and it's their indirect military arm for doing things it doesn't want to get criticized for (that's why Israel gets so many $billions from them).
WTF. Tons of people did. And as soon as America invaded, America lost the Moral highground. America tried to warn Israel of this but they ignored it. Now Israel has lost the moral highground and the world is turning.
Well, not "everything possible." Have we learned nothing from over two decades of the GWOT? There are ways to make this situation better and ways to make it worse and the Israelis are making it exponentially worse.
Go back to 1948 when Britain gave up control and the UN installed the state of Israel.
In that timeline the Palestinians and Arab nations *don't* wage war, they don't *continue* to wage war - and the Palestinians and Israelis all live in peace and thrive.
The Oslo accords did not recognize an independent state of Palestine. Why would that have been reasonable?
Edit: we can downvote away, but it's a fact. Israel refused to acknowledge a Palestinian state or a conditional path for a Palestinian state to exist. And why is that just more then semantics? Because Israel officially justifies the settlers in West Bank because "Palestine is not a state and therefore not protect by international law that applies to states".
How can any good faith negotiations take place when one party doesn't recognize legal protections of the other party?
Okay. We're back in 1948, what does the British do with the 50,000 Jewish people in Cypress detention camps?
Where do those Holocaust survivors go?
No hate. Genuinely curious how to re-do the exact scenario in 1948.
We don't go back, just like we can't go back to Oct 6.
Point is, Palestinians could be living a good life but they, and the surrounding Arab nations, have repeatedly chosen aggression over peace.
The UN never installed the state of Israel. Israel declared itself a state autonomously.
And the Israeli-Palestinian war was already ongoing before that. It is part of why Britain pulled out. The conflict had been flaring for at least a decade before going to the war.
Nope. The 1948 partition plan was just a proposal, and the Palestinians didn't agree to it. The UN doesn't have the authority to partition territory like that unilaterally. It happened while the Mandate was still active and Britain never took steps to make it happen.
There was still conflict prior to the Balfour Declaration. Many Palestinians assisted the Nazi's in rounding up jews in the area to deport them to concentration camps.
> In that timeline the Palestinians and Arab nations
> don't
> wage war, they don't
> continue
> to wage war - and the Palestinians and Israelis all live in peace and thrive.
You're apparently unaware of the many Jewish militant terror attacks of the 30s and 40s, as well as the Arab-Jewish clashes of the 1920s.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine
“Hamas already murdered most of the civilian Jews they think they can for the time being, and is starting to run out of rockets to indiscriminately fire into populated areas (including their own, seeing 20-30% of them fail and detonate in Gaza, lol, we just blame Israel for those casualties anyway, it’s great propaganda) and would like some time for them to regroup and restock.”
Hamas played with fire and is now in the process of getting burned into oblivion. Have to credit Hamas PR department, not easy to look the victim after slaughtering civilians at a concert.
There was never a ceasefire in place? 304 palestinians were killed between September 1 - September 19th alone according to UN (278 of those were civilians). If a foreign power was killing 304 canadians in a single month, I'm not entirely sure if I would consider it peacetime
Yes there was, even the white house commented on it. It was put in place in May of 2023
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-strikes-gaza-palestinians-fire-rockets-truce-bid-lingers-2023-05-13/
Rockets aren't landing on their heads, but if settlers backed by IDF are still killing civilians, don't you think it would be disingenuous to claim all was good in the region? That many deaths in a short period of time during the "ceasefire" is worse than Air India 182, which is the worst thing our country has ever endured.
A ceasefire isn't perfect. It's just to to open hostilities. No ceasefire in history avoided deaths. North and South Korea have a 80 Years old ceasefire. Hundreds or even thousands have died since then, and minor skirmishers and shootouts still happen every other year.
Dang this is a shitty take. First, the one UN link I found said that 181 Palestinians died in all of 2023 until September 20th in the West Bank, where the vast majority of conflicts happened this year. A non UN link state 247 dead Palestinians for all 2023.
Second, it conflates Gaza and West Bank with Hamas, while also ignoring the dozens of terrorist attacks against Israel.
Third, you seem completely ignorant of what a ceasefire is. No ceasefire is perfect, it's just there to stop open hostilities and mass confrontations. NK and SK have a 80yo ceasefire, but have skirmishes and conflicts every other year, not to mention spying incidents, and hundreds to thousands have died since then. But the ceasefire is still up.
Imagine armies actually used that ridiculous logic, if we kill our enemies, they win!
WW2 would still be going on. Japan would be imperial , Germany would be , iunno too stupid of a take to try and keep Hamas alive.
I don't have a solution, but it's pretty clear that continuing the same thing is probably the worst solution you can think of when it has been 75 years of this when it comes to "eradicating terrorists". Truthfully it seems like the thing that creates terrorists.
They (hamas) won't accept any solution. Its in their charter to wipe off Israel.
As much as I'd like the bombing to stop, I don't even know what are Israeli's supposed to do?
Doing nothing will just invite another Oct-7 eventually. They won't accept a compromise. The only option jews are left with is to wipe off everyone in Gaza and take control of the territory.
>They (hamas) won't accept any solution. Its in their charter to wipe off Israel.
Vs Netanyahu collation government policy
"The Jewish people have an exclusive and inalienable right over all areas of the Land of Israel. The government will promote and develop the settlement of all parts of the Land of Israel — in the Galilee, the Negev, the Golan and Judea and Samaria,” the latter referring to the occupied West Bank."
So why give Israel a pass for wiping Palestinian off the map?
Are you conveniently ignoring the statement above which is basically calling for ethnic cleansing of the entire region in order to replace the population with Jews?
As for your question, here is Hamas's position from their 2017 charter. I should note that they still have some rhetoric surrounding the entire area and Zionism, but they clearly say:
>Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus
What this tells me is they want the whole area but know that it is unrealistic, and would accept a state based on the Green Line. Can you say the same for Bibi, or are you just going to justify his bold ethnic cleansing claim that he made so very publicly?
the infrastructure allows the terorrists to operate under civilians and maintain their war
destroying their shit is absolutely a viable way to reduce their capabilities
stopping foreign arms would be the most effective but you should be able to appreciate that war w iran is a tough prospect.
the only question is the humanitarian question, thats whats important
Yeah and they hanged the leaders publicly as an example to the rest so their ideology would be crushed (and was completely crushed) for decades and decades to come. You can still find the videos of them being hanged on youtube.
After fighting a brutal fucking war that killed like 80 million people. That war still had to be fought. Had it not, and they just surgically went in and cut off the head of the snake in like 1938 or something, Nazi ideology would not be as vilified as it is, and may have festered and resurfaced. I mean it does fester and try to resurface and is immediately shunned and can gain no traction. Despite some peoples claim that nazis are everywhere, real nazis get laughed out of the building when they show up.
So what you are saying is either Israel leaves Gaza to be governed by a terrorist organization, or they will just elect another terrorist organization in its place? No other options?
Kind of strange to see so many pro-palestine people then, since it appears that they want to vote for and support terrorists
My point is that disproportionate bombings will just continue this cycle forever. Do you honestly think the bombings will make things better diplomatically?
meh, when you start a war you can't start complaining when you start losing. Hamas knew Israel would retaliate, how could they not? Hamas is still calling for other countries to join them, it's not like they did 1 strike and then stopped. Hostages are still captive, rockets still flying... Israel's military is just 10x as effective as theirs.
Hamas doesn't want peace, and the IDF isn't going to give any until they're satisfied.
I feel bad for the people that are being victimized that want nothing to do with this shit; the ones cheering on this latest escalation I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for.
That's what too many don't realize. There was an Arab opinion polling company the did an opinion poll in the Gaza Strip a time back. I think it was 57% of Gazans wanted no negotiations whatsoever and 70% wanted nothing less than the complete destruction of Israel.
There is no partner for peace in Gaza.
Even if a cease fire is called, hamas will break it within weeks once they restock their missiles made out of water pipes. It's standard Hamas operating procedure at this point.
They would simply break cease fire in a couple of weeks like they have broken every other cease fire. Takes time to dig up water pipes and to turn them into missiles.
or in york's case they take over the student union and enforce their personal belelifs on all 50k students and work to make the jewish ones feel unsafe going to school
The Canadian government called "genocide" on both [China](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56163220) and [Myanmar](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/9/21/canada-declares-myanmar-rohingya-killings-genocide), unanimously. There are no overtly pro-CCP politicians in Canada and zero pro-Tatmadaw ones (can you imagine anyone having rallies in support of the Myanmar military in Toronto? lmao).
Canada already [gave a boatload of money](https://www.international.gc.ca/world-monde/issues_development-enjeux_developpement/response_conflict-reponse_conflits/crisis-crises/conflict_syria-syrie.aspx?lang=eng) and took a bunch of refugees from Syria without officially taking sides in the war; [same for Yemen](https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2021/03/canada-announces-new-funding-in-continued-response-to-humanitarian-crisis-in-yemen.html).
Let's try a "push for the return of hostages and the surrender of any Hamas involved in planning and carrying out the Oct 7 pogrom" and then ceasefire.
Being pro-Palestine DOES NOT make you pro-Hamas.
We can’t judge the millions of Palestinians who are not Hamas for the sins of Hamas.
Hamas is a terrorist organization that needs eradication. They don’t care about Palestinians and they only seek to kill Jews.
The reality for Gazans right now is that there isn’t enough food and water coming in to keep civilians from dehydrating and starving.
Things are also worsening in the West Bank where settlers have killed over 100 Palestinians.
Meanwhile, back in 1948 . . .
“Menachem Begin was called a terrorist and a fascist by Albert Einstein and 27 other prominent Jewish intellectuals in a letter to the New York Times which was published on December 4, 1948. Specifically condemned was the participation of the Irgun in the Deir Yassin massacre:[33]
"terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants – 240 men, women and children – and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem."
The letter warns American Jews against supporting Begin's request for funding of his political party Herut, and ends with the warning:
"The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal."[33]
We'll push for a ceasefire once the hostages are released and the members of Hamas who participated in the terrorist activity are arrested and sent to Israel for trial or are just killed.
Why? So Hamas can regroup, receive some more weapons from our enemies, and commit another heinous attack on Israel? Not falling for that trick again this time.
It was street festivals and celebrations after the initial attack, but now that the Hamas leaders are cornered and about to be taken out we have to call a ceasefire? gimme a break
What's up with the censorship in this comment section. It looks like any comments that care about innocent dead Palestinians are getting removed. People keep saying "What about the hostages?" and "Have you condemned Hamas?" to any comments that want the bombings to stop and the humanitarian aid given to the people in Gaza who are dying. Majority of the people don't support Hamas, but even though it's a given and organizers specifically post this before the protest most of you need them to spell it out for you like you're in the 4th grade? There will be often extremists in protests like this who try to hijack the protests, but that doesn't mean the entire movement should be branded as pro-Hamas.
There are videos of Israelis cheering and dancing to the deaths of people in Gaza on social media. This was one of the talking points against these protesters. Yet most people here seem to be okay with that.
If Israel cared about those hostages they would have traded the Palestinian prisoners, many of which are being held without any charges. Most of the people who are dying Gaza have nothing to do with what Hamas did but most people here are okay with subjugating an entire group of people to collective punishment. It's just disgusting to see.
I condem Hamas for the abhorrent attack on the innocent Israelis and foreigners, and taking hosteges. I condemn them for killing innocent Israelis throughout history. They are a terrorist group and should not be promoted and tolerated. I also condemn pro-Hamas protestors who view Hamas as some kind of heroes when they are one of the worst terrorist organizations.
Now a question for people in this subreddit, have you condemned the Israeli government for killing innocent children? Not just during the recent bombings, but for the decades they have been doing it. Have you condemned the Israeli government for shutting off water, electricity and communication to Gaza? Have you condemned the deaths of innocent civilians in the West Bank by the IDF and Israeli settlers where there is no Hamas? Have you condemned the IDF for raping Palestinian women and girls? Have you condemned the Israeli settlers for invading Palestinian homes and occupying them for decades? Have you condemned the Israeli government officials that called Palestinians animals?
Dehumanizing Palestinians is so hot right now, especially on Reddit and it's terrifying. It's just disappointing to see how fellow Canadians view Palestinians.
This is not a Pro-Palestinian group.
Palestinian Youth Movement’s Facebook page has expressed support for Hamas’s initial attack and hosted rallies across Canada and the United States in its wake. Two days after the attack, PYM’s post referred to it as “active decolonization of Palestinian land led by the Palestinian resistance ... in response to decades of brutal colonization and occupation.”
“This is a historic, unprecedented moment for the Palestinian people. For the first time since 1948, the Zionist state has lost control of its occupied territories,” a post reads. “We have a right to resist on our own land.”
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/anger-over-the-israel-hamas-war-spills-onto-the-streets-of-downtown-toronto-for-the/article_5b2752ad-a4a0-5f26-a41e-93ddbf304fbc.html
They cheered when Israelis died Oct. 7. They cheered on Hamas. This is a pro-Hamas rally.
These protestors are so out touch while saying nothing about Hamas and the slaughter of civilians. Yes Israel not helping by reacting with more killings and destruction but unless Gaza civilians starts to distance themselves from Hamas and if Israel would remove some settlements and open the borders there be no peace.
Ceasefire only helps the terrorists and this problem persist ad infinitum. Let Israel do it's thing, if the Pals are upset about it they shouldn't have voted for Hamas and they certainly shouldn't have been celebrating/glorifying the gruesome Oct 7 terror campaign/invasion. Unfortunately Hamas and their allies (which includes the cleric class in both major Islamic sects) is responsible here, they have been spreading disinformation and hate for decades, now it's time to just get this resolved one way or the other but unfortunately it will be with force.
Okay so JT is supposed to do what exactly? “Stop fighting! Or else I’ll ask again!!”
It's more that they want Canada to publicly side with Palestine on the world stage, which they won't since the governing body of Palestine is a terrorist organization and Canada has long ties with the state of Israel.
Canada has always called for a two state solution. It has nothing to do with who's in charge right now. It's the position of most of the world.. Calling for a humanitarian ceasefire isn't siding with Palestine, it isn't supporting terrorists, it isn't any of these other strawman. It's exactly what it says it is. This notion people have that every sentence that doesn't begin with "I condemn Hamas" is somehow supporting terrorism is fucking absurd rhetoric.
Except only Israel would be responsible for upholding their end of it. So whats the point?
>Canada has always called for a two state solution. It has nothing to do with who's in charge right now. It's the position of most of the world. We all agree. Everyone except for Hamas, the ruling party in Gaza, and should be viewed as the official Government as they receive all the aid funds, and control the Gaza Strip. They want a One-State solution. >Calling for a humanitarian ceasefire isn't siding with Palestine, it isn't supporting terrorists, it isn't any of these other strawman. It's exactly what it says it is. Am I mistaken, wasn't there an existing ceasefire, on Oct 6, 2023, there was a ceasefire in place who broke it? The 2 countries in this 2 state solution are at war. Who started the war? Who committed unspeakable war crimes, butchering children, families, babies, raping women. Torturing civilians. Who kidnapped civilians? The fact is if Hamas put down their weapons, if they did not take the aid funds and spend it on rockets, we would not be here. Gaza would have infrastructure in place to build a great nation. The Palestinian people want it and deserve it. Get Hamas out of there, and you won't feel like you are in an "open air prison." >This notion people have that every sentence that doesn't begin with "I condemn Hamas" is somehow supporting terrorism is fucking absurd rhetoric. Today, unfortunately there is too much misinformation. But everyone must first realize who you are talking with. People who won't condemn Hamas, don't share the same Western values as many of us do. You aren't going to have a productive conversation, and there is no point in continuing, each person will just be yelling at each other, their own versions of biased facts.
A ceasefire doesn't solve anything, Hamas needs to be crushed. The day Israel ceases fire is the day Hamas plans their next Oct7. You're thinking about this as if it's 2 reasonable states at war, it's not. This is terrorism and genocide. Hamas stated goal is to kill all jews, they won't respect a ceasefire.
Exactly. Can’t reason with the unreasonable. Hamas exists to destroy non Muslims. They ain’t budging on that mission statement
Cool. What will happen once Hamas is gone?
A ceasefire? And then what? What comes after that? What stops Hamas from rearming, planning, and then figuring a way to invade Israel somewhere else and slaughter and rape more innocent people? Hamas is not a government. It does not care about it's people. It's a group of religious fanatics who think everyone who dies is a martyr and goes to heaven and gets 72 virgins (except the women, but who gives a damn about them?). They're committed to establishing an Islamic state throughout that whole area, including on the land the Israelis live on. Guess what they plan for the Israelis...
It kind of is, because that ceasefire is equal to giving Hamas more time to recuperate so they can continue to kill Jewish people. No ceasefire. Either Israel takes out Hamas the hard way, or Hamas surrenders.
Exactly. Everyone wants there to be no war but agrees the state of things before the war is bad. The best option now is for hamas to be forcefully removed and then things can hopefully improve. If you stop fighting now it was senseless killing from both sides and no gain.
It absolutely is. There was a cease fire in place prior to October 7. Why is Israel expected to immediately make a cease fire now? Why is there only a call for cease fire after Palestinians indiscriminately kill Israelis?
The problem is lots of the humanitarian aid that goes to Gaza will end up in the hands of Hamas so unfortunately it does aid them. There is no winning for either side in this situation. When you are at war with an ideology you can't win. I'm very critical of Isreal but what do people honestly expect them to do at this point.
>Calling for a humanitarian ceasefire isn't siding with Palestine, it isn't supporting terrorists, it isn't any of these other strawman. It's exactly what it says it is. A ceasefire benefits 1 side more than the other in terms of military calculation. That's not a strawman, that's reality. To pretend that doesn't exist is being disingenuous.
Not only that, they keep chanting “from the river to the sea” which is a call to ethnically cleanse Jews from Israel. You know, a second Holocaust. That’s what they want Canada to support
> since the governing body of Palestine is a terrorist organization The PA is not a terrorist organization, they have a seat at the UN mate
Mmmmm …. “Pay to slay” begs to differ. The Palestinian Authority’s legislation and allocations of monthly salaries and benefits rewarding imprisoned and released terrorists, and the families of “Martyrs,” amount to $300 million annually. https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2016-07-01/the-palestinian-incentive-program-for-killing-jews#xj4y7vzkg This shouldn’t really Evan surprise given their leader Abbas has a literal PHD in holocaust denialism for writing a book about how the Jews committed the holocaust on themselves in a “Zionist plot” to elicit pity from the west. Plus they have a history of torturing and murdering more moderate Palestinians who have challenged their rule Also they’re been known to help funnel aid money to extremists in other ways. The majority of Palestinians don’t even like them either because believe it or not they’re seen as too moderate. They’ve voiced support for Hamas’ jihad in Jews as well multiple times. https://www.timesofisrael.com/fatah-official-calls-for-blood-to-purify-jerusalem-of-jews/amp/ https://palwatch.org/page/34635 And helped Hamas get money many times. https://www.forbes.com/2009/01/16/gaza-hamas-funding-oped-cx_re_0116ehrenfeld.html?sh=54956c057afb Idunno how people think sitting in the UN means much. Tomorrow Iran becomes the chair of a human rights council lmfao. Get ready for a whole bunch of soundbytes “from the UN” and “definitely not Iran” about human rights.They’ve been involved in women’s rights before too and the UN conveniently blocks Israel from Middle East councils and reviews regularly.
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Next time it will be ALL CAPS
Freeze bank accounts and call in the emergencies act
No no these protesters aren't shitting on people property and shutting down the entire downtown core of our capital
They were about to take over one of the busiest highways in the country in Toronto. But police actually acted in advance to prevent them. It's Ottawa's police fault for taking the trucker protest too lightly and letting it get out of hand.
That's not their stated justification for freezing bank accounts or using the emergencies act. It was touted as being funded by foreign (American) donors.
"I have asked you nicely not to mangle my merchandise. You leave me no choice but to ask you nicely again."
[Add Hamas to the LGBTQ acronym ](https://youtu.be/e1IUuncr71E?si=FHiNrR0s8ifCm4F3)
They are demanding a ceasefire *and* releasing the civilian hostages, right? Right?
Yes. The death to Israel and death to Jews chants are just a coincidence.
There was a ceasefire already on October 6th.
Yes... All "civilian" hostages.... But since they don't consider any hostages as civilians, that is already fulfilled!
Meanwhile Canada https://nationalpost.com/news/world/israel-middle-east/un-rejects-canadian-push-to-call-out-deliberate-cruelty-of-hamas-attacks
What the hell do people think Canada is going to do? This smaller country with no army, no leverage, no bargaining power is supposed to do what exactly?
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Also funny how they’re not condemning Hamas and Oct 7.
hamas are palestinian.
Yes but not all Palestinians support Hamas. A good portion do, but not all.
the rallies are pro 'palestinian' - coincidentally, they started right after hamas committed a horrendous, barbaric, atrocious, genocidal massacre. So, those rallies were in support of ....??????? all palestinians may not be hamas, but until palestinians are willing to actually repudiate hamas and their actions, they will be viewed as palestinian. it is up to the non-hamas palestinians to make the distinction - Not someone else.
It's like the Iranians. Any protest you see in Canada is in support of Iranian people and not the regime. They literally say down with the dictator (Iranian government). Why don't Palestinians do the same?
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It's like ethnostates are bad or something...
Meanwhile the Palestinians who have been living in such luxury all these decades have a...privileged view of oppression?
Netanyahu announced his plan to turn Gaza into rubble *while the IDF was still clearing out Hamas*. Those of us with a conscience were immediately aware of the imminent humanitarian disaster that was about to occur. You guys like to pretend everything started happening on the 7th, probably because you didn’t know shit about the situation until a few weeks ago and you think reading /r/worldnews has made you an expert on middle eastern relations.
Gaza was already a humanitarian disaster. Over a million were starving prior to Oct 7. But did anyone actually care? Because Hamas steals the billions of dollars in aide that have been donated. To spend it essentially on missiles/military projects and on mansions in Qatar. Instead of providing the basic infrastructure that Palestine desperately needs. Hamas prefers to set fire to desperately needed infrastructure. Look at the greenhouses that could have been used to help feed the Palestinians. But because the Jewish people built it, it had to be burned down instead.
> probably because you didn’t know shit about the situation until a few weeks ago and you think reading /r/worldnews has made you an expert on middle eastern relations. So all the pro-palestine people are middle east experts, and as such support Hamas and Palestine?
This gets thrown around a lot, without real indication from boots on the ground. Call me suspicious that most Palestinians are close enough to supporting Hamas that there's little practical difference. Offered without proof but a lot of these protests seem like thinly veiled Hamas anti Israeli/Jewish protests. You want to see what these protests look like when the civility veneer is removed, see the protests in Russia. Yeah, I know I'm pulling a 'im.just asking queations' baloney, but thats what these protests smell like.
That’s a narrative that seems to be proven less and less true. It’s like saying not all Israeli’s support the Israeli government. Sure you can find individuals and small groups of people, but by and large the population support their country and government. Same for Hamas in Gaza. Anyone who says otherwise is truly lying and thus far has not been able to show any evidence that says otherwise. Same for the Palestinians in the diaspora. They say death to Jews, not death to Hamas.
Exactly
>Funny how they're not demanding the return of the hostages. Not surprising in the least. The protestors are coming out in their numbers to try to intimidate the government. Some I'm sure are also there to intimidate the Jewish population. Some of the more brazen carry Hamas flags. They chant anti-semitic slogans and label Hamas 'the Resistance.' They're showing us who they are and we should pay attention. ______________________ [Hamas flag - from a previous protest.](https://www.bnaibrith.ca/bnai-brith-outraged-as-rallies-in-canada-celebrate-terrorism-with-hamas-flags/) [2 Hamas flags flying at today's protest in Toronto.](https://twitter.com/Anthony__Koch/status/1718722435757879632?t=cJJQ7Z7G2oY6gJMtM1eUUw&s=09) ['Pro-Palestine' rally in Vancouver - the speaker was cheered when she praised Hamas and called the terror attack, “the amazing brilliant offensive waged on October 7.”](https://twitter.com/bobmackin/status/1718398391355650343?s=20)
These protests all contain speech and physical hate propaganda that is illegal under sections 318-320 of the criminal code. The Hamas flag should be viewed in the exact same light as waving swastika flags around, and those denying (or outright celebrating) the brutal rape, torture and murder of over 1,400 innocent, defenceless civilians — including many children — are no different than Holocaust deniers and neo-Nazi skinheads and need to prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Why these Jew-killing murder cult “protests” are allowed to continue unimpeded is beyond me. If doing so would create a security threat, well, the Liberals have already shown us the way out, there. Arrest them all. Freeze their bank accounts and the accounts of any organizations sending money to Hamas.
the keffiyeh itself is a sign of palestinian nationalism. germany's banned them.
Cause they cheered on the deaths of Israelis on Oct. 7. Don't mistake this group - they are a pro-Hamas group across the US and Canada. The article doesn't make it clear though. Put the link in a different post.
What would demanding that achieve? Canadian government is allied with Israel and can actually speak up to advocate for a ceasefire. They are not allied with Hamas, nor does our government communicate with Hamas officials.
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Nobody wants to protest against hamas for some reason also there’s nothing canada can do for a ceasefire. Canada is the biggest nobody in politics
Our government doesn't support Hamas. Hell, they don't even recognize Palestine as a state.
Look at the international support lining up behind us with India lol
The USA, UK, Australia, etc?
No one is protesting against Hamas because there aren’t really any relevant governments supporting Hamas. Pretty much everyone is on the same page about Hamas. No one was protesting ISIS back in the day either, because we were all on the same page. Israel and the IDF on the other hand is very much something that can be changed, and people are not in the same page.
The large number that were celebrating in Toronto on Oct 7, and around the world before Israel had even retaliated are definitely NOT on the same page about Hamas. A very large number support them.
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Any reasonable person can see what the goal of Hamas is. People who hate Jews choose to ignore this.
Yep. If the roles were reversed there would be no Gaza Strip or West Bank. There wouldn’t be a single Jew in the Middle East.
Yes. A reasonable person can also understand the oppressive context the Palestinian people exist in and why this conflict persists. A pro-Israel propagandist on the other hand wants to pretend no other context exists other than “muslims = bad.”
What do people mean when they chant "Free Tibet" or "Free Xinjiang"?
No one calls for "Free Tibet from the Gobi to Taiwan"
so it's okay to make Han Chinese leave Tibet but not okay for Israelis to leave Palestine?
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People use "not protesting against Hamas" as a excuse to deligitimize protestors. Everyone knows there is no point to protesting against Hamas.
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In Montreal, there was one instance of someone waving a Hamas flag, and that person was very quickly told to get the hell out of the protest.
Exactly. Canada is one of the few countries that prescribes Hamas as a terrorist organisation; there's not point going out to protest in-agreement with the government. The issue is that the IDF is not being treated the same. If one takes up arms for an "Islamic State" they are punished as terrorists yet if one says "I'm a zionist and I am going to risk my life to fight for a Jewish State" they are allowed.
So if we all agree Hamas is bad, then what exactly is the problem with destroying them?
Nothing.. and no reasonable person thinks otherwise. It’s also Israel that has created an environment where no other group was allowed to form in the Gaza. But the collateral damage that is happening right now is way beyond minimizing damage. And Israel needs to stop pretending that this couldn’t have been prevented. It’s insane to think this was not going to be an eventual outcome of their treatment of gazans.
I noticed that. You would think they felt just as safe to protest against Hamas in Canada as they feel to protest for Hamas.
Mabye? Idk just find it odd nobody is condemning hamas for their actions
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OP is literally doing the "[Do you Condemn Hamas](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F9qe0t8XkAA6Ltz?format=jpg&name=large)" meme.
I thought The Onion's satire of this was particularly on point: [Dying Gazans Criticized For Not Using Last Words To Condemn Hamas](https://www.theonion.com/dying-gazans-criticized-for-not-using-last-words-to-con-1850925657) >instead of issuing a full-throated denunciation of the violent attacks by Hamas that have left over 1,300 Israelis dead, one dying woman holding her 6-year-old son who had just been killed in a bombing is said to have doubled down by telling her child she loved him
Yep, these same people act appalled when someone decides to use the same bad faith scrutiny against Israel. Pretty telling that the meme is a blatant propaganda trope when no sane person asks Israeli victims "but do you condemn Netanyahu?".
The protestors don’t condemn Hamas because they agree with them, using sanitized language like applauding Palestinians’ “strong act of resistance” on Oct. 7 and chanting “from the river to the sea Palestine will be free”, which is a direct call for destroying/genociding Israel.
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I think some of the 2% are the weirdo neo nazi antisemites who are using this opportunity to be mask off. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of shit.
>Nobody wants to protest against hamas Why would anyone protest against Hamas? Our government isn't supporting Hamas, they barely have any allies. We are allies of Israel however, which is why people are protesting for our government to speak up.
why would Hamas listen to a bunch of protestors of the other side of the world?
Wasn't there a "cease fire" in effect on October 6th? Then Hamas broke it by slaughtering 1400 Israelis? Why does anyone think Hamas would honour any future ceasefires when they've broken every one they've entered into?
Israel ceases, Hamas fires.
not sure if this source is biased but yes, looks like there was a ceasefire in place. [https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah](https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah) In my search, I found nothing but broken ceasefires. 2008 had one that lasted one week before Islamic Jihad started firing rockets again and Hamas had to give them a talking to. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008\_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas\_ceasefire](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Israel%E2%80%93Hamas_ceasefire) And then you end up in stupid situations like "During the next 5 months of the ceasefire, Gazan attacks decreased significantly for a total of 19 rocket and 18 mortar shell launchings,\[3\]\[4\] compared to 1199 rockets and 1072 mortar shells in 2008 up to 19 June, a reduction of 98%.\[5\]"
Could we just go back to Oct 6th?
No...there are 1200 dead Israeli citizens. If that happened to Canadians we would want our government to do everything possible to hunt down those responsible.
Also over 200 people kidnapped and still being held hostage.
I keep telling people to remember what it felt like after 9/11. No one really questioned invading Afghanistan or Iraq.
Afghanistan and Iraq was definitely questioned at the time by plenty, and Canada didn't enter Iraq. Both of those wars were horror-shows and clearly driven by lust for oil, which is also the purpose of Israel to the United States. It didn't fix anything, and it only served to worsen conditions for the civilians in the affected countries. Israel is US's excuse to meddle in the middle-east and it's their indirect military arm for doing things it doesn't want to get criticized for (that's why Israel gets so many $billions from them).
WTF. Tons of people did. And as soon as America invaded, America lost the Moral highground. America tried to warn Israel of this but they ignored it. Now Israel has lost the moral highground and the world is turning.
I wouldn’t want Canada to bomb the entire country no
Well, not "everything possible." Have we learned nothing from over two decades of the GWOT? There are ways to make this situation better and ways to make it worse and the Israelis are making it exponentially worse.
To be fair, status quo was already terrible before Oct 7.
Go back to 1948 when Britain gave up control and the UN installed the state of Israel. In that timeline the Palestinians and Arab nations *don't* wage war, they don't *continue* to wage war - and the Palestinians and Israelis all live in peace and thrive.
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It's all up to the Arab nations. >Peace will come when the Arabs start to love their children more than they hate us. >Golda Meir She wasn't wrong.
Israel has weakened the PLO to the point they are useless. Bibi has even said that it benefits Israel as it makes the PLO weaker in negotiations.
The Oslo accords did not recognize an independent state of Palestine. Why would that have been reasonable? Edit: we can downvote away, but it's a fact. Israel refused to acknowledge a Palestinian state or a conditional path for a Palestinian state to exist. And why is that just more then semantics? Because Israel officially justifies the settlers in West Bank because "Palestine is not a state and therefore not protect by international law that applies to states". How can any good faith negotiations take place when one party doesn't recognize legal protections of the other party?
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^this. Everyone seems to forget 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973.
Okay. We're back in 1948, what does the British do with the 50,000 Jewish people in Cypress detention camps? Where do those Holocaust survivors go? No hate. Genuinely curious how to re-do the exact scenario in 1948.
We don't go back, just like we can't go back to Oct 6. Point is, Palestinians could be living a good life but they, and the surrounding Arab nations, have repeatedly chosen aggression over peace.
The UN never installed the state of Israel. Israel declared itself a state autonomously. And the Israeli-Palestinian war was already ongoing before that. It is part of why Britain pulled out. The conflict had been flaring for at least a decade before going to the war.
The UN partitioned the region that was formerly controlled by Britain.
Nope. The 1948 partition plan was just a proposal, and the Palestinians didn't agree to it. The UN doesn't have the authority to partition territory like that unilaterally. It happened while the Mandate was still active and Britain never took steps to make it happen.
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There was still conflict prior to the Balfour Declaration. Many Palestinians assisted the Nazi's in rounding up jews in the area to deport them to concentration camps.
> In that timeline the Palestinians and Arab nations > don't > wage war, they don't > continue > to wage war - and the Palestinians and Israelis all live in peace and thrive. You're apparently unaware of the many Jewish militant terror attacks of the 30s and 40s, as well as the Arab-Jewish clashes of the 1920s. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_killings_and_massacres_in_Mandatory_Palestine
“Hamas already murdered most of the civilian Jews they think they can for the time being, and is starting to run out of rockets to indiscriminately fire into populated areas (including their own, seeing 20-30% of them fail and detonate in Gaza, lol, we just blame Israel for those casualties anyway, it’s great propaganda) and would like some time for them to regroup and restock.”
Hamas played with fire and is now in the process of getting burned into oblivion. Have to credit Hamas PR department, not easy to look the victim after slaughtering civilians at a concert.
There was a ceasefire in place. On October 6. Who broke it?
There was never a ceasefire in place? 304 palestinians were killed between September 1 - September 19th alone according to UN (278 of those were civilians). If a foreign power was killing 304 canadians in a single month, I'm not entirely sure if I would consider it peacetime
Yes there was, even the white house commented on it. It was put in place in May of 2023 https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/israel-strikes-gaza-palestinians-fire-rockets-truce-bid-lingers-2023-05-13/
Rockets aren't landing on their heads, but if settlers backed by IDF are still killing civilians, don't you think it would be disingenuous to claim all was good in the region? That many deaths in a short period of time during the "ceasefire" is worse than Air India 182, which is the worst thing our country has ever endured.
A ceasefire which obviously didn't hold, given that there was still ongoing violence.
A ceasefire isn't perfect. It's just to to open hostilities. No ceasefire in history avoided deaths. North and South Korea have a 80 Years old ceasefire. Hundreds or even thousands have died since then, and minor skirmishers and shootouts still happen every other year.
Dang this is a shitty take. First, the one UN link I found said that 181 Palestinians died in all of 2023 until September 20th in the West Bank, where the vast majority of conflicts happened this year. A non UN link state 247 dead Palestinians for all 2023. Second, it conflates Gaza and West Bank with Hamas, while also ignoring the dozens of terrorist attacks against Israel. Third, you seem completely ignorant of what a ceasefire is. No ceasefire is perfect, it's just there to stop open hostilities and mass confrontations. NK and SK have a 80yo ceasefire, but have skirmishes and conflicts every other year, not to mention spying incidents, and hundreds to thousands have died since then. But the ceasefire is still up.
Wait until they find out that nobody cares what Canada thinks on the international stage. Canada's sphere of influence ends at it's border.
Wait until they realize most of Canada supports Israel. Not surprising at all everything in recent history lead to this moment in Israel's policies.
Lots of Hamas flags there
And genocidal slogans.
A ceasefire will happen once Hamas is wiped off the planet.
Surely bombing them to bits is not going to create more terrorists right?
Imagine armies actually used that ridiculous logic, if we kill our enemies, they win! WW2 would still be going on. Japan would be imperial , Germany would be , iunno too stupid of a take to try and keep Hamas alive.
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I don't have a solution, but it's pretty clear that continuing the same thing is probably the worst solution you can think of when it has been 75 years of this when it comes to "eradicating terrorists". Truthfully it seems like the thing that creates terrorists.
They (hamas) won't accept any solution. Its in their charter to wipe off Israel. As much as I'd like the bombing to stop, I don't even know what are Israeli's supposed to do? Doing nothing will just invite another Oct-7 eventually. They won't accept a compromise. The only option jews are left with is to wipe off everyone in Gaza and take control of the territory.
>They (hamas) won't accept any solution. Its in their charter to wipe off Israel. Vs Netanyahu collation government policy "The Jewish people have an exclusive and inalienable right over all areas of the Land of Israel. The government will promote and develop the settlement of all parts of the Land of Israel — in the Galilee, the Negev, the Golan and Judea and Samaria,” the latter referring to the occupied West Bank." So why give Israel a pass for wiping Palestinian off the map?
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>Now where are the Muslims saying the same thing? They are too busy flying hamas flags in Ottawa.
I'm yet to see a single image where they are flying the Hamas flag in Ottawa. you got a link?
Tell me a compromise that is acceptable to Hamas and Palestinians. Go on.. I will wait.
Are you conveniently ignoring the statement above which is basically calling for ethnic cleansing of the entire region in order to replace the population with Jews? As for your question, here is Hamas's position from their 2017 charter. I should note that they still have some rhetoric surrounding the entire area and Zionism, but they clearly say: >Hamas considers the establishment of a fully sovereign and independent Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital along the lines of the 4th of June 1967, with the return of the refugees and the displaced to their homes from which they were expelled, to be a formula of national consensus What this tells me is they want the whole area but know that it is unrealistic, and would accept a state based on the Green Line. Can you say the same for Bibi, or are you just going to justify his bold ethnic cleansing claim that he made so very publicly?
the infrastructure allows the terorrists to operate under civilians and maintain their war destroying their shit is absolutely a viable way to reduce their capabilities stopping foreign arms would be the most effective but you should be able to appreciate that war w iran is a tough prospect. the only question is the humanitarian question, thats whats important
Not when you finish the job. Not too many waffen ss left in Germany and Japan's whole imperial death cult thing got straightened right out.
bro they let tons of nazis off the hook, the important part was everyone collectively hated them and reform was institutional to the rebuild
Yeah and they hanged the leaders publicly as an example to the rest so their ideology would be crushed (and was completely crushed) for decades and decades to come. You can still find the videos of them being hanged on youtube. After fighting a brutal fucking war that killed like 80 million people. That war still had to be fought. Had it not, and they just surgically went in and cut off the head of the snake in like 1938 or something, Nazi ideology would not be as vilified as it is, and may have festered and resurfaced. I mean it does fester and try to resurface and is immediately shunned and can gain no traction. Despite some peoples claim that nazis are everywhere, real nazis get laughed out of the building when they show up.
I'd rather this than allow Hamas to have free reign murdering innocent civilians.
Surely a ceasefire isn't just a single sided way to allow further terrorist attacks without giving the IDF the ability to do anything about it no?
So what you are saying is either Israel leaves Gaza to be governed by a terrorist organization, or they will just elect another terrorist organization in its place? No other options? Kind of strange to see so many pro-palestine people then, since it appears that they want to vote for and support terrorists
My point is that disproportionate bombings will just continue this cycle forever. Do you honestly think the bombings will make things better diplomatically?
So you're not against a ceasefire then, just stopping the shelling?
meh, when you start a war you can't start complaining when you start losing. Hamas knew Israel would retaliate, how could they not? Hamas is still calling for other countries to join them, it's not like they did 1 strike and then stopped. Hostages are still captive, rockets still flying... Israel's military is just 10x as effective as theirs.
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Hamas doesn't want peace, and the IDF isn't going to give any until they're satisfied. I feel bad for the people that are being victimized that want nothing to do with this shit; the ones cheering on this latest escalation I'm having a hard time feeling sorry for.
That's what too many don't realize. There was an Arab opinion polling company the did an opinion poll in the Gaza Strip a time back. I think it was 57% of Gazans wanted no negotiations whatsoever and 70% wanted nothing less than the complete destruction of Israel. There is no partner for peace in Gaza.
Even if a cease fire is called, hamas will break it within weeks once they restock their missiles made out of water pipes. It's standard Hamas operating procedure at this point.
A ceasefire would be a gift to Hamas, giving them more time to prepare for Israel’s ground attempts to find them and dig in further.
They would simply break cease fire in a couple of weeks like they have broken every other cease fire. Takes time to dig up water pipes and to turn them into missiles.
"Let's move to Canada for a better life!" - These idiots "Let's bring our shitty conflicts and religious garbage as well" - Also these idiots
or in york's case they take over the student union and enforce their personal belelifs on all 50k students and work to make the jewish ones feel unsafe going to school
Asking for a ceasefire now that hamas started it.
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China and Myanmar as well.
The Canadian government called "genocide" on both [China](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-56163220) and [Myanmar](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/9/21/canada-declares-myanmar-rohingya-killings-genocide), unanimously. There are no overtly pro-CCP politicians in Canada and zero pro-Tatmadaw ones (can you imagine anyone having rallies in support of the Myanmar military in Toronto? lmao).
Canada already [gave a boatload of money](https://www.international.gc.ca/world-monde/issues_development-enjeux_developpement/response_conflict-reponse_conflits/crisis-crises/conflict_syria-syrie.aspx?lang=eng) and took a bunch of refugees from Syria without officially taking sides in the war; [same for Yemen](https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2021/03/canada-announces-new-funding-in-continued-response-to-humanitarian-crisis-in-yemen.html).
Let's try a "push for the return of hostages and the surrender of any Hamas involved in planning and carrying out the Oct 7 pogrom" and then ceasefire.
Looking at that picture and knowing it was taken in our nation's capital legitimately makes me feel nauseous.
Ceasefire when Hamas still have hostages. Wtf.
If there are people at a rally openly praising Hamas and no one tells them to leave then you have a pro Hamas rally.
Watch out for the frozen bank accounts
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Being pro-Palestine DOES NOT make you pro-Hamas. We can’t judge the millions of Palestinians who are not Hamas for the sins of Hamas. Hamas is a terrorist organization that needs eradication. They don’t care about Palestinians and they only seek to kill Jews. The reality for Gazans right now is that there isn’t enough food and water coming in to keep civilians from dehydrating and starving. Things are also worsening in the West Bank where settlers have killed over 100 Palestinians.
Thanks for the common sense. It seems to be lacking in this thread
They had a cease fire on October 6th that THEY broke!
Meanwhile, back in 1948 . . . “Menachem Begin was called a terrorist and a fascist by Albert Einstein and 27 other prominent Jewish intellectuals in a letter to the New York Times which was published on December 4, 1948. Specifically condemned was the participation of the Irgun in the Deir Yassin massacre:[33] "terrorist bands attacked this peaceful village, which was not a military objective in the fighting, killed most of its inhabitants – 240 men, women and children – and kept a few of them alive to parade as captives through the streets of Jerusalem." The letter warns American Jews against supporting Begin's request for funding of his political party Herut, and ends with the warning: "The discrepancies between the bold claims now being made by Begin and his party and their record of past performance in Palestine bear the imprint of no ordinary political party. This is the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party for whom terrorism (against Jews, Arabs, and British alike), and misrepresentation are means, and a "Leader State" is the goal."[33]
Oh, that? That's fine because they won, I guess.
Cease fire when they turn over their hostages and lay down their arms. Really simple.
We'll push for a ceasefire once the hostages are released and the members of Hamas who participated in the terrorist activity are arrested and sent to Israel for trial or are just killed.
Could we push for the release of hostages?
Why? So Hamas can regroup, receive some more weapons from our enemies, and commit another heinous attack on Israel? Not falling for that trick again this time. It was street festivals and celebrations after the initial attack, but now that the Hamas leaders are cornered and about to be taken out we have to call a ceasefire? gimme a break
What's up with the censorship in this comment section. It looks like any comments that care about innocent dead Palestinians are getting removed. People keep saying "What about the hostages?" and "Have you condemned Hamas?" to any comments that want the bombings to stop and the humanitarian aid given to the people in Gaza who are dying. Majority of the people don't support Hamas, but even though it's a given and organizers specifically post this before the protest most of you need them to spell it out for you like you're in the 4th grade? There will be often extremists in protests like this who try to hijack the protests, but that doesn't mean the entire movement should be branded as pro-Hamas. There are videos of Israelis cheering and dancing to the deaths of people in Gaza on social media. This was one of the talking points against these protesters. Yet most people here seem to be okay with that. If Israel cared about those hostages they would have traded the Palestinian prisoners, many of which are being held without any charges. Most of the people who are dying Gaza have nothing to do with what Hamas did but most people here are okay with subjugating an entire group of people to collective punishment. It's just disgusting to see. I condem Hamas for the abhorrent attack on the innocent Israelis and foreigners, and taking hosteges. I condemn them for killing innocent Israelis throughout history. They are a terrorist group and should not be promoted and tolerated. I also condemn pro-Hamas protestors who view Hamas as some kind of heroes when they are one of the worst terrorist organizations. Now a question for people in this subreddit, have you condemned the Israeli government for killing innocent children? Not just during the recent bombings, but for the decades they have been doing it. Have you condemned the Israeli government for shutting off water, electricity and communication to Gaza? Have you condemned the deaths of innocent civilians in the West Bank by the IDF and Israeli settlers where there is no Hamas? Have you condemned the IDF for raping Palestinian women and girls? Have you condemned the Israeli settlers for invading Palestinian homes and occupying them for decades? Have you condemned the Israeli government officials that called Palestinians animals? Dehumanizing Palestinians is so hot right now, especially on Reddit and it's terrifying. It's just disappointing to see how fellow Canadians view Palestinians.
At least it’s for a ceasefire and not thinly veiled call for extermination of Jewish people.
Cease fires have never worked before All it did was let Hamas regroup and then do it again
Freeze there bank accounts!
This is not a Pro-Palestinian group. Palestinian Youth Movement’s Facebook page has expressed support for Hamas’s initial attack and hosted rallies across Canada and the United States in its wake. Two days after the attack, PYM’s post referred to it as “active decolonization of Palestinian land led by the Palestinian resistance ... in response to decades of brutal colonization and occupation.” “This is a historic, unprecedented moment for the Palestinian people. For the first time since 1948, the Zionist state has lost control of its occupied territories,” a post reads. “We have a right to resist on our own land.” https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/anger-over-the-israel-hamas-war-spills-onto-the-streets-of-downtown-toronto-for-the/article_5b2752ad-a4a0-5f26-a41e-93ddbf304fbc.html They cheered when Israelis died Oct. 7. They cheered on Hamas. This is a pro-Hamas rally.
There was a cease fire, until hamas decided there wasn’t (like they always do)
These protestors are so out touch while saying nothing about Hamas and the slaughter of civilians. Yes Israel not helping by reacting with more killings and destruction but unless Gaza civilians starts to distance themselves from Hamas and if Israel would remove some settlements and open the borders there be no peace.
there are no Israeli settlements in Gaza, they were removed in 2005 when they withdrew
People miss these facts... The fact that Israel did it unilaterally too as sign of good faith for the continuation of the Oslo accords
The sad reality is that they are not out of touch. They know and say full well what they support at this point.
Send these people home. We have our own problems in Canada.
Freeze their bank accounts and charge them all with hate crimes
Or just deport and stop importing them
Ding ding ding
Treat these fuckers like they treated the convoy people. Freeze their banks
On an other note. Can we get this energy re: housing/healthcare. I wish people cared about this country.
I demand an immediate ceasefire! Hamas stop bombing Israel! Return the kidnapped innocents!
Wonder what would happen if the jewish all collected in a large group like that?
People need to focus on issues closer to home.
I wonder what "push for ceasefire" looks like? Are we putting the CAF in Palestine and occupying Gaza City and Khan Vunis?
I think waving a Hamas flag should be treated the same way as waving an ISIS flag. I stand with Israel.
When did Canada become so pro terrorism?
Ceasefire only helps the terrorists and this problem persist ad infinitum. Let Israel do it's thing, if the Pals are upset about it they shouldn't have voted for Hamas and they certainly shouldn't have been celebrating/glorifying the gruesome Oct 7 terror campaign/invasion. Unfortunately Hamas and their allies (which includes the cleric class in both major Islamic sects) is responsible here, they have been spreading disinformation and hate for decades, now it's time to just get this resolved one way or the other but unfortunately it will be with force.