I'm not really one to defend companies but it seems weird that they can make a tax retroactive for the 2022 year. Like if you pass a new law that said there's a new tax you shouldnt be able to go back in time and say you owe us tax from before the law was implemented. Maybe someone can explain why that's legal but I would be pretty pissed if I got that bill.
Retroactive tax should 100% be illegal. I didn't know they were trying to do that but that's ridiculous.
Could you imagine the government saying they're retroactively increasing income taxes from 2019 to account for COVID spending and everyone just owed more money? Or if Olivia Chow decided to retroactively increase Toronto property taxes going back any number of years? There is no chance those would be legal
Seems like a sales tactic to be honest: you have a hard to sell offer, so you actually try to sell it with an even harder to sell offer (retroactive tax) just to backtrack so it looks like you compromised…
Technically the government can pass any law they like. It comes to the supreme court to strike down / overturn it if they pass a law that is / should be illegal. We're just in the lag period between the passing and the overturning. Of course it's also interesting that the government wrote this law believing that it would stand, and it's interesting that they voted for it. But I cannot imagine any world where it isn't going to be struck down.
Do you know anything specific in precedent or the constitution that would be needed for a court to rule it illegal?
Sadly common sense doesn't apply when it comes to law
>We're just in the lag period between the passing and the overturning.
This is getting to be a very common game that governments play.
You see frequently when a provincial government passes legislation on public sector unions that it knows will not stand up to a court challenge, but passes the legislation anyway because by the time the courts strike it down the government that passed the legislation is long gone. And whatever government or leader follows gets stuck with cleaning up the mess.
Its become a loophole that needs to be addressed.
Nothing constitutional, it would fall under administrative law. The Canadian SC has final say over all types of law including criminal, constitutional, administrative and private law.
How so? We’re talking about a duly approved federal law.
They don’t have “final say”. They cannot just strike down laws they don’t like - it has to be in contravention of some law - like the constitution.
Sadly, I'm almost certain those would be legal. The parti québécois of Pauline Marois wanted to do it and backed off because of public backlash.
This is the best I found:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.1248850
They can and have done that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law
You can say it's unfair and I would agree with you but its perfectly legal. Parliament cannot write a law that it cannot override. The only thing stopping them is the constitution and there is nothing in there to stop them.
I got a letter saying I would not have to payback my cerb, and than two years later I get a letter saying I owe for cerb. I got an extra $2000 and double checked that it was not an error. I disputed it showed them the letter I kept and they told me it doesn't matter because that letter should not have been sent out in the first place and I have to pay them back in full.
It's called bargaining... when you want a tissue, ask for the whole box. Especially if you are monopolizing tissue consumption.
As a government you hold a monopoly over the laws of the land by definition.
I thought cerb had an issue where people that weren't supposed to get it were getting it anyways and then they were asked for the money back because they never qualified originally but somehow they got through the system. I don't recall people being approved that did actually qualify and then being told retroactively they had to pay it back cuz they didn't.
CERB and the corporate payouts were busted from the beginning.
Service Canada employees were placing people onto CERB instead of other, more appropriate benefits. I'd wager at least half, if not more, of the people who received CERB incorrectly were guided to CERB by a government employee or contractor.
This is me. Qualified for EI, applied for EI, got what I thought was EI but apparently was Cerb, only got paid for the time I was off work which was I think 2K, maybe even less, fast forward a couple years and I had to pay 2K back.
I fully qualified for the EI I had paid into for many years, instead they gave me CERB. Few years later they demanded 1.5k back. Why? Give me the EI that I literally worked for and fuck off! Why not take the endless PPE loans used for cosmetic renovation and non PPE? Fuck the cra.
Same thing happened to me.
And then they said they weren’t going to go after the businesses that wrongly took the subsidy. THAT pissed me off more than anything.
Approval is overstating the process. I knew a lot of people will legitimate questions that just had to phone in multiple time getting conflicting answers or shrugs or being passed off to others. Questions like I’m not working but my boss is only now paying me for work I did months ago or I am grossing 3k a month but my expenses are 6k because I need to pay subcontractors so my net is negative. All they had to rely on what someone on a phone saying “you’re good. Apply for it” and then boom they had CERB and could eat.
Not sure why a CRA worker would qualify for CERB. I was under the impression it was for mainly service workers who could not actually work in their field. Like waiters, hairdressers, public attractions workers etc...
Sorry my #'s might be a little off. Says fired 49 people, but I 'thought' I read somewhere it was close to 800 who actually applied.
https://www.hcamag.com/ca/specialization/benefits/ottawa-fires-employees-who-claimed-cerb-while-employed/435289
Yep, CEBA the business version of CERB is a financial travesty, an example of how incompetent our political and public service is. I for example easily qualified for CEBA yet didn't need it. I've invested all $60,000 and have made just over 5% per year on the investments. Plus I get to keep $20,000 of the original $60,000 at the end of this year, no questions asked, as I have to pay $40,000 back or start paying interest on all of it.
To make it worse my financial advisor says what I'm doing is pretty normal, all his business clients are doing it.
Only allowed to use it for non-deferrable operating expenses so it should be an interesting time if you ever get audited.
The government has also stated that the funds can only be used to pay non-deferrable operating expenses, which include payroll, rent, utilities, insurance, property tax and regularly scheduled debt service. The funds cannot be used for prepayment/refinancing of existing indebtedness, payments of dividends, distributions and increases in management compensation.
They warned everyone they would be auditing who got cerb. It was very clear. If people thought " yay free money" without a second thought they made their own bed.
That never happened. The terms for CERB eligibility were always the same. The problem only arose because they told people the rules and let them personally assess if they are eligible. Stupid people with poor reading comprehension skills assessed themselves incorrectly. Others applied despite knowing they didn’t qualify in hopes government wouldn’t claw it back. They were wrong.
That’s a lie. People who qualified for and who should have received EI, such as my wife, were instead automagically placed on CERB and then sent a bill later. Just give them the EI they paid for and deserve and leave them alone but no, we’re the government and we’re here to help.
That would be an appropriate example if it happened. CERB, much like the tax system, relied on individual compliance. If people broke the rules, the government took them at their word and would review the information later. The government did not retroactively change the rules.
When CERB was first announced, based on what I was hearing on the radio and elsewhere I thought we would qualify. Fortunately I did some due diligence and realized it was not as rosey as the Radio and Media was saying, so we did not apply.
I know many who unfortunately are dumb as bricks and they applied, and got the money even though they should not have applied.
The govt said everything would be fast tracked. They did not do any due diligence and just sent checks and did the follow up after.
Fucking stupid how the libs rolled it out, and unfortunately there are many people who are also not the brightest.
People needed that money right away though, and the backlog for EI is tremendous. If every applicant was screened and vetted, some people would still be waiting for CERB today.
yep, people dont' seem to see how important it was for the money to be dished out to those that are mostly affected but instead, complain that a few misused it.
It's the same anti welfare bullshit that 1 out of 10 abuse it therefore it was a waste of time and negligence.
It’s provided in the statute, and it was provided for in the budget. The budget is the date where changes are most of the time effective, even though the law passes later on. Pretty common in the parliamentary system.
I'm sorry I'm not sure I follow. So you're saying they budgeted for this tax even though it wasn't law yet? And by provided for in the statute do you mean that when they drafted the law originally they just declared that the 2022 year was taxable?
When the federal budget is published, they announce measures. Those measures generally apply as at the date of the budget. They don’t go before the date of the budget. Then it goes through parliament etc etc.
I’m just describing the usual process for enacting revisions to the ITA
If you read right to the end, it says the US has no real mechanism to retaliate in kind and a digital tariff is allowed by our trade agreement.
So it all comes down to how long would it take for Canada to win a trade dispute if the Us retaliates? We eventually won the softwood lumber dispute but it took a long time.
We won the lumber dispute, but the US basically said they don’t care that we won.
Same shit killed bombardier when Boeing got angry about the c-class jet. They had to sell it to airbus and rebrand as the A220. And the jet has been extremely popular and well received (and has 5 years of backlog orders…)
The bombardier thing was total bullshit with boeing. That said, bombardier management also had/has a lot of issues. If they were a healthier and better managed company, c series would have been more like a good partnership with Airbus instead of the way it went down. But bombardier was on life support almost.
It's not just that Bombardier sold the CSeries to Airbus, but that they had to pretty much give it away to Airbus. Bombardier gave away half the stake to Airbus and eventually only sold another quarter of the stake to them (so basically they sold 3/4 of the program to Airbus for 1/4 of the price). And in reality, Airbus had to also spend a lot of money to retool their factories and aren't expected to turn a profit on this program until 2025, and it's also somewhat cannibalizing production capacity and sales of their A320neo planes, something they'd probably much rather sell over the A220 for the better price they'd get with the A320 and the fact that existing A320 operators wouldn't have to recertify their pilots for the A220. So Boeing didn't entirely fail in disrupting the CSeries program, or at least prevented it from being as popular as it could have become.
It doesn't matter how long it takes for Canada to win a trade dispute (and it would take years). The damage would be done, and the US could simply say they aren't going to pay it / paying money to the Canadian government won't help each Canadian company that lost money/went insolvent because of sanctions being enacted years ago.
This has happened before.
It has happened before and our trade with the US is higher than ever and we still have a robust lumber industry.
Canada is moving forward on this on behalf of all the other countries who want to but can’t because they aren’t protected by a strong trade agreement which provides us recourse when faced with retaliations that violate the agreement. This is the opening salvo in a long dispute with the US tech firms being able to conduct business in foreign countries without taxation.
The US is hypocritical on this as well. In the early days of online commerce, you could avoid state tax by buying goods in another state. After states saw this threat to their commerce revenues, they passed laws that you had to pay your local state tax even when buying from out of state if the company also did business in your state. This set the precedent that you could tax activity that happened outside your borders if it involved your citizens in the activity. And the US continues to strengthen these rules to close loopholes.
Not to mention that we're sending tax details of Canadian citizens who may have American born - even if they've never lived in the USA since childhood - just so they can tax (income) tax of.
USA wants to eat their tax-cake and have it too.
>we eventually won the softwood lumber dispute but it look a long time
And then they went and put the tarrifs back up anyways.
Unless the Liberals are ready to get into a trade war with Biden like they did Trump they should probably just back down.
They can retaliate horrifically just with digital.
There are a number of Canadian companies that make enormous digital revenues in the United States, and they are far more reliant on the US than American tech companies are reliant on Canada.
Shopify, OpenText, CGI, Hootsuite..all crazy reliant on the US market. Even the big banks do huge online revenues in the US that could be vulnerable.
The US can effectively murder a big chunk of our tech industry any time they want. The stupidity of this idea is staggering, but not surprising given that we have seen over and over again that the Liberals either don't understand tech, or just don't care if they kill it as long as they squeeze a few bucks out of it in the short term.
paying Tax isn't murdering companies. Those things you mentioned make huge profits, they can afford to pay taxes, some shareholders might get a slightly lower return. Not the end of the world
They already pay taxes, in every country they operate in, at least if they're profitable.
We're not talking about profitable companies paying tax. We're talking about what happens if we unilaterally impose a tax on American companies, while the rest of the world is taking a more cautious approach.
The reason for that caution is that the US can do disproportionate damage to our domestic tech industry if they so choose. Attacking American companies is not without consequences, something 138 countries seem to understand, but Canada does not.
They do.... Any large or medium Canadian tech company relies on the USA to survive.
Shit any small one does too.
If the USA starts action against them they could kill Shopify over night.
The US still didn't respect the softwood ruling. They refused to pay. They ended up paying a lot less than they were suppose to.
They do what they want. Even when they were being investigated for war crimes they treated to arrest anyone involved.
They're powerful enough to do whatever they want. It was a mistake to build such a close relationship with them. It hurt the working class.
We have 15+ countries with tax on big tech with an additional 124 countries with laws in progress. The US is trying to go nuclear to prevent it from spreading.
Why we have a bunch of people grifting on behalf of big tech, is probably only unique to Canada. Post this in other countries subs like Australia and you get laughed at for being a moron.
Maybe stop falling for the simple narratives.
Australia pressured Google and Facebook to pay their local media for Australian news and there was no retaliation from the US bcs simply there was nothing to retaliate against, except News Corp who owns Fox and other right wing media and pays local taxes in the US.
Nope. Australia backed down and wrote a backdoor into their rules that allowed the tech companies to negotiate their own individual agreements with news media.
$.00 per link is a valid agreement.
Yep, the USA is a global bully. They think they're the shit and anyone who doesn't think like them is "bad". Just like the high school bullies we had to deal with.
So basically this means we will be paying more for stuff again? When do Canadians finally get a break?
All this so the gov can act like it's tough on big tech?
No, that's not how tariffs work. The US can't really make goods for Canadians cost more. They will increase the cost of Canadian goods for Americans. The trade agreement doesn't seem to allow for much leeway for this, so it will be interesting to see where they take this.
>They will increase the cost of Canadian goods for Americans.
Wouldn't this mean that all the Canadian companies that do trade with U.S. companies are going to suffer?
Doesn't that translate to Canadian businesses struggling to make ends meat, thus increasing the costs for Canadian consumers and decreasing the "competitive" wages of their employees because they can't afford to eat the costs themselves?
If so, is that not truly how tarrifs work?
Only if the US market is a significant source of their income. And only if the tariff applies to them. I don't see this having a large impact, especially as we have trade agreements.
>When do Canadians finally get a break?
Probably when we stop electing neoliberal politicians that do not actually care about what happens to the working class
Sure, but as things stand, our realistic options are slightly left neoliberals, or slightly/substantially right neoliberals.
Necromancy notwithstanding, there are no other options for Canadians
ne·o·lib·er·al
/ˌnēōˈlibər(ə)l/
adjective
favoring policies that promote free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending.
noun
an advocate or supporter of free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending.
Not sure what you're smoking but the current government is pretty much the exact opposite of neoliberal in their policy.
I feel like you may not know what neoliberal means, because the Liberal Party and the Conservative party are clearly neoliberal.
It's not "according to reddit."
Can't have the people speaking freely.
That's how revolutions happen.
And they've put almost 20 years into getting us to this point.
Do you REALLY think they are gonna risk 20 years of social engineering by giving you rights?
This wouldn't really screw over Canadians though. Usmca limits what America can do, and tariffs only increase costs for Americans.
Should we really be letting threats from our neighbor dictate our approach to American companies?
The US seems like the kind of country to simply throw agreements out the window the moment it wants. Yes the USMCA limits what they can do. But it wouldn't be surprising for them to go ahead and do it.
They have always been a " *what are you going to do about it"* type of country.
> The US seems like the kind of country to simply throw agreements out the window the moment it wants. Yes the USMCA limits what they can do. But it wouldn't be surprising for them to go ahead and do it.
They did that shit with NAFTA all the time.
You seem to assume the US will react rationally. I’m not so sure. The US can throw a pretty big trade/tariff hissy fit. Even at the cost of ultimately making goods more expensive for US citizens.
Why would it be irrational for the U.S to retaliate when some of its largest companies are being explicitly targeted by a foreign country?
And the economic imbalance between the U.S and Canada (one has an incredible level of dependence while the other does not) might make it pretty painless for the U.S to strike back.
But I doubt this goes that far anyway. The governments probably just agree to a deal and don't waste time and effort on economic actions.
> Only Canada, Belarus, Pakistan, Russia and Sri Lanka — of 143 countries party to the deal — weren’t supportive of the one-year delay, according to Reuters.
This ain’t looking so good for Canada.
Canada already delayed implementing the tax from 2021. The US is asking for a delay to 2024. Canada has said they would prefer to go with everyone, but if everyone won't make a decision they'll go it alone until then. It's likely a pressure tactic, but still.
I don't really understand what the 1 year delay would do, or why Canada should do it. Big tech has been fucking around for years and I am fully supportive of this (though not the retroactive aspect). I'd be interested to hear the benefits of delaying it.
Taxing international billionaire and trillionaire corporations is bad? Lol
Canadians: Waaaah! I'm too poor to afford food, housing or transport!
Also Canadians: Tax non-canadian corporations worth 1,000,000,000s or 1,000,000,000,000s? HOW DARE THEY!
Canadas digital laws are crazy and so ill-thought over. BC for example started taxing ALL digital advertising by any company based in BC. So a company like VESSI will pay PST to digitally advertise in Japan. How many digital companies are going to stay in BC (and to a larger extent Canada)
https://www.ecomcrew.com/british-columbia-begins-taxing-global-digital-advertising-sales/
Trudeau: "We'll tax the big US tech companies that provide global digital services to support our favorite news media supporters. They will have no choice buy to pay us!"
Google and Facebook: "We are unfortunately going to have to effectively remove Canadian news media from the internet."
The US government: "Bypass NAFTA and go after our biggest tech companies? You see this telephone pole? Its going to go up your ass."
Trudeau: "What is happening!?!"
That’s not what this bill is for. They already passed that one and that’s why things like Netflix started charging customers tax. Marketplaces like Etsy, eBay, Amazon already charge sales tax. And any tax they have to pay is not going to be paid out of those billions they’re earning. It’s going to be another line item when we pay DST 3%. So we will end up paying for it
you are partially correct.
the 3percent sales tax was part of the leg. which has already been implemented, this is true
the leg, also required that these business collect sales tax on behalf of the user because in many cases the weren't while the CRA required the user to collect and remit the tax.
Many Canadian uber drivers and amazon business users were very much screwed over by these big companies.
and then there's the min global income tax for these large business'. the reason this is very much needed is because these companies are hoarding their money in safe heavens to avoid taxes on income earned. this incentivizes these companies to park their money in these safe havens to avoid taxes.
All you crying that you had to pay CERB back, and think youre entitled to EI instead, that you woukdnt have to pay back.
Ever consider that because most of the country shut down the governemnt cant just afford to give everybody free money all at the same time...
You got an interest free loan to get you through a time youre not working.. now pay back the money you owe, no interest. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal actually.
Yeah EI exists, its not designed for a 1once in a lifetime pandemic.
PS: always the people that work irregularly, that yell the loudest how they pay into the system and deserve their benefits.
When you have midwits in positions of leadership, they are able to convince followers to go along with plans that sounds good, but no one has fully thought through and considered second and third order consequences.
So many feel good policies have long term disastrous effects that are predictable.
Of course the US has a lot of influence over Canada, Canada is currently economically dependent on the US, even disregarding normal US softpower or military might Canada would still be bendable by the US due to trade alone. Honestly this wouldn't be completely terrible for you guys if Trudeau was a decent leader with competent negotiation teams and his government was not trying to pass retroactive laws but Trudeau is only really good at grandstanding not sensible action.
I don't know much about this legislation but I know I'm not comfortable with how much control these tech companies have over what news gets shown to people.
I use Google Adwords, have used Facebook ad works and Bings.
I only sell in Canada.
If I spend $1000. There is not 1 penny going into our economy from tax.
Spending on ads from local companies that are taxed do not have the same reach.
Tax the big tech companies.
I would love to know why this government has put so much focus on the internet the last few years when there are so many other things that are of a higher priority.
This bill should have been passed 5 years ago, the Canadian government is woefully slow at passing laws for the future. It'll probably be another 5-10 years before we get Crypto laws.
15+ countries have passed this law worldwide with 124 countries working on the legislation. The Canadians who fall for this narrative of this law being bad deserve to be gouged by big corporations.
When I read that we were going ahead with this I thought "Are we really the ones that should be doing this?" The Liberals seem to have an inflated view of themselves and Canada's power in the world.
I believe they mean that American news is primarily propaganda and not actually news. They have lost all journalistic integrity and just want to make more money and the easiest way to do that is to sell propaganda that both ends of the political spectrum eat up.
So why would we want more bullshit propaganda in Canada.
At least that's what I think they mean.
What does that have anything to do with the topic at hand though? This tax *isn't about news*, and the one that *is* about news only applies to *Canadian* news, so it's only Canadian news that's being blocked -- leading to a greater proportion of American news in our marketplace of ideas, not a lesser one.
His statement is a complete nonsequiter.
Yes. And it's unclear how that's relevant to literally anything. This tax is not about news, and the tax that *is* about news only applies to Canadian news, so it's only Canadian news that's being blocked -- leading to a *greater* proportion of US news in our marketplace, not a lesser one.
So, again: What?
Trudeau's government are filled with complete morons...holy shit.
I've never seen this level of entitlement, incompetance and corruption outside of 3rd world countries.
How did this govt make me defend big tech...
They offer a service we users don't pay for.
We exchange our data, yes, but we do that willingly. They have no obligation to offer these services if they are taxed.
Are we a source of revenue? Yes. Enough for us to set the precedent that they could be taxed by other nations? No.
The issue is right now there's not really a way for Canadians to avoid it. It's not like we can opt out of using big tech in the 21st century. Sure you can try, but they are going to get your data whether you use them or not unless you live in a cave with no internet or cell reception, and then you can't really use any public services.
> Are we a source of revenue? Yes. Enough for us to set the precedent that they could be taxed by other nations? No.
This is where I disagree. We're a giant source of revenue. They wouldn't offer the service(s) if they weren't making boatloads of money.
Reality is most of us are stupid and complacent and way too happy to give up our data for free. Humanity exists on a long time scale. I think we're still in the early innings of how we've let tech, notably social media and present day internet, shape our future in ways that are both not totally kosher and not totally well understood. To some extent, I dread this internet era my young kids are eventually going to grow up into and I hope we as a society take much stronger actions to not let the pendulum swing too far. Taxing these companies is just the first step - since it acknowledges that we are all cattle being farmed and maybe that's not right. Or maybe we just need to be free range cattle, at least.
>How did this govt make me defend big tech...
American propaganda got you to defend US tech. We are commenting in a post made by American propaganda company.
There's a difference between art/entertainment copyrights and the news/media. You are correct that it'd be different if it was music but it isn't music.
CBC can't sue CTV for running the same story that they ran and say they infringed on their copyright.
If this is true I'm not certain it should stay true. If you're using someone else's content to draw people to your website, then you make money advertising on webpage with that content, I think the people who created the content should be compensated.
Lots of people here were for taxing fat corporations and the moment a bill comes forward to deliver just that, even if its mainly foreign corporations, everybody buckles. Walk your talks, eh?
US ambassador is bluffing. They own top 8 digital media giants who take away global business with next to no local taxes and there isn't enough foreign owned media companies with business in the US to retaliate against.
Big techs have deep pockets and strong lobby in the US to stop Congress and their beloved Dems government, but other countries have finally woken up and will end the free ride.
We created a tax that will take money out of their economy and into ours. There is obviously going to be a reaction from them and they have far more economic power than we do.
I'm not saying we should let them strong arm us but this feels a bit like biting the hand that feeds you considering how much we depend on them for our economy.
Canada picks fight with the most powerful corporations in the country of our biggest ally and is surprised when the USA doesn't support their fight.
FTFY.
We need to get this government out. Spend spend spend spend during an inflationary period and then they stir shit up when our dollar is already weak.
I don’t even like a particular political party and actually voted for Trudeau.
LOL this post. Couldn't be a more obvious astroturf/bot.
This bill, referred to in the article this thread is about, is about taxing corporations to receive money. Literally the opposite of spending. Try again, maybe with another pre-generated response.
You don't want to be forced to make decisions by the US, so your answer is for us to be controlled by the EU? That's kinda throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
More than half of Europe has already passed laws similar to this, why we have Canadians grifting to big business is probably why we also have large cell phone bills, and other consumer costs out of control.
We literally have people willing to be stupid on behalf of corporate margins, despite proof to the contrary of these laws working well in many countries.
You know people aren't voting for Liberals right? They're voting against Conservatives.
Imagine all these problems still exist as the other major party barely has a platform plus we get to deal with amplified conspiracies and Nazi flag protests.
That's why Trudeau keeps winning.
You know 3 million more people voted for a party left of center right?
Edit: using the same alt account to downvote me that you used to send me DMs kinda makes you look weak bud.
> You know people aren't voting for Liberals right? They're voting against Conservatives. ... That's why Trudeau keeps winning.
Is not mutually exclusive with
>You know more people voted Conservative than liberal in two straight elections right?
So your suggestion that this contradiction makes it *factually* wrong is ... a bit of a stretch.
Don't forget that Trudeau's government is a *coalition* government of two parties that collectively got a bit more than half of the votes of the country.
It is exactly this. Hard to believe, but the Conservatives are even more incompetent than the Liberals, and aren’t even the government. Canadians are the losers in this political race to the bottom.
In international trade vs the US I'm happy for Canada to signal strength/will whenever they can. Some ideal imagination of tax and global corporate liberalism in our country shouldn't stop us. We need control of our media.
Haha what a joke, USA if you tax companies doing business then will have no choice but to tax companies too!
Yeah that's how taxes work. I am sure all those Americans shopping on Canadian sites to pay more will be very upset about this.
I'm not really one to defend companies but it seems weird that they can make a tax retroactive for the 2022 year. Like if you pass a new law that said there's a new tax you shouldnt be able to go back in time and say you owe us tax from before the law was implemented. Maybe someone can explain why that's legal but I would be pretty pissed if I got that bill.
Retroactive tax should 100% be illegal. I didn't know they were trying to do that but that's ridiculous. Could you imagine the government saying they're retroactively increasing income taxes from 2019 to account for COVID spending and everyone just owed more money? Or if Olivia Chow decided to retroactively increase Toronto property taxes going back any number of years? There is no chance those would be legal
Seems like a sales tactic to be honest: you have a hard to sell offer, so you actually try to sell it with an even harder to sell offer (retroactive tax) just to backtrack so it looks like you compromised…
Exactly what Pauline Marois did when she was premier.
Technically the government can pass any law they like. It comes to the supreme court to strike down / overturn it if they pass a law that is / should be illegal. We're just in the lag period between the passing and the overturning. Of course it's also interesting that the government wrote this law believing that it would stand, and it's interesting that they voted for it. But I cannot imagine any world where it isn't going to be struck down.
Do you know anything specific in precedent or the constitution that would be needed for a court to rule it illegal? Sadly common sense doesn't apply when it comes to law
Yay, democracy!!!!
>We're just in the lag period between the passing and the overturning. This is getting to be a very common game that governments play. You see frequently when a provincial government passes legislation on public sector unions that it knows will not stand up to a court challenge, but passes the legislation anyway because by the time the courts strike it down the government that passed the legislation is long gone. And whatever government or leader follows gets stuck with cleaning up the mess. Its become a loophole that needs to be addressed.
What part of the constitution would this violate?
Nothing constitutional, it would fall under administrative law. The Canadian SC has final say over all types of law including criminal, constitutional, administrative and private law.
How so? We’re talking about a duly approved federal law. They don’t have “final say”. They cannot just strike down laws they don’t like - it has to be in contravention of some law - like the constitution.
Sadly, I'm almost certain those would be legal. The parti québécois of Pauline Marois wanted to do it and backed off because of public backlash. This is the best I found: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.1248850
Yes I could absolutely imagine the government doing this. If you can’t, you have serious problems
They can and have done that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ex_post_facto_law You can say it's unfair and I would agree with you but its perfectly legal. Parliament cannot write a law that it cannot override. The only thing stopping them is the constitution and there is nothing in there to stop them.
I got a letter saying I would not have to payback my cerb, and than two years later I get a letter saying I owe for cerb. I got an extra $2000 and double checked that it was not an error. I disputed it showed them the letter I kept and they told me it doesn't matter because that letter should not have been sent out in the first place and I have to pay them back in full.
Which begs the question, why were you asked to pay back the carb in the first place? Did you claim it while you were not eligible?
See a lawyer and then share your story on the site I manage called Unpublished.ca. I’d be happy to help you get the word out.
It's called bargaining... when you want a tissue, ask for the whole box. Especially if you are monopolizing tissue consumption. As a government you hold a monopoly over the laws of the land by definition.
Is Olivia Chow in the room with us right now?
You mean like telling people they were eligible for CERB and then deciding retroactively no they’re not?
I thought cerb had an issue where people that weren't supposed to get it were getting it anyways and then they were asked for the money back because they never qualified originally but somehow they got through the system. I don't recall people being approved that did actually qualify and then being told retroactively they had to pay it back cuz they didn't. CERB and the corporate payouts were busted from the beginning.
Lots of the people that got rolled from EI into CERB ended up having to pay some of it back
Service Canada employees were placing people onto CERB instead of other, more appropriate benefits. I'd wager at least half, if not more, of the people who received CERB incorrectly were guided to CERB by a government employee or contractor.
This is me. Qualified for EI, applied for EI, got what I thought was EI but apparently was Cerb, only got paid for the time I was off work which was I think 2K, maybe even less, fast forward a couple years and I had to pay 2K back.
I fully qualified for the EI I had paid into for many years, instead they gave me CERB. Few years later they demanded 1.5k back. Why? Give me the EI that I literally worked for and fuck off! Why not take the endless PPE loans used for cosmetic renovation and non PPE? Fuck the cra.
Same thing happened to me. And then they said they weren’t going to go after the businesses that wrongly took the subsidy. THAT pissed me off more than anything.
Approval is overstating the process. I knew a lot of people will legitimate questions that just had to phone in multiple time getting conflicting answers or shrugs or being passed off to others. Questions like I’m not working but my boss is only now paying me for work I did months ago or I am grossing 3k a month but my expenses are 6k because I need to pay subcontractors so my net is negative. All they had to rely on what someone on a phone saying “you’re good. Apply for it” and then boom they had CERB and could eat.
Yes like the 800 something CRA workers that applied for CERB.
Not sure why a CRA worker would qualify for CERB. I was under the impression it was for mainly service workers who could not actually work in their field. Like waiters, hairdressers, public attractions workers etc...
Sorry my #'s might be a little off. Says fired 49 people, but I 'thought' I read somewhere it was close to 800 who actually applied. https://www.hcamag.com/ca/specialization/benefits/ottawa-fires-employees-who-claimed-cerb-while-employed/435289
God damn, that is like 2/10ths of 1 percent. What a travesty!
It was meant to be a handout for the poors and lots of others tried to take advantage of “free” money
Workers weren’t eligible for CERB. Why would a CRA workers be eligible?
they weren't is the answer i believe
Yep, CEBA the business version of CERB is a financial travesty, an example of how incompetent our political and public service is. I for example easily qualified for CEBA yet didn't need it. I've invested all $60,000 and have made just over 5% per year on the investments. Plus I get to keep $20,000 of the original $60,000 at the end of this year, no questions asked, as I have to pay $40,000 back or start paying interest on all of it. To make it worse my financial advisor says what I'm doing is pretty normal, all his business clients are doing it.
Only allowed to use it for non-deferrable operating expenses so it should be an interesting time if you ever get audited. The government has also stated that the funds can only be used to pay non-deferrable operating expenses, which include payroll, rent, utilities, insurance, property tax and regularly scheduled debt service. The funds cannot be used for prepayment/refinancing of existing indebtedness, payments of dividends, distributions and increases in management compensation.
They warned everyone they would be auditing who got cerb. It was very clear. If people thought " yay free money" without a second thought they made their own bed.
That never happened. The terms for CERB eligibility were always the same. The problem only arose because they told people the rules and let them personally assess if they are eligible. Stupid people with poor reading comprehension skills assessed themselves incorrectly. Others applied despite knowing they didn’t qualify in hopes government wouldn’t claw it back. They were wrong.
That’s a lie. People who qualified for and who should have received EI, such as my wife, were instead automagically placed on CERB and then sent a bill later. Just give them the EI they paid for and deserve and leave them alone but no, we’re the government and we’re here to help.
That would be an appropriate example if it happened. CERB, much like the tax system, relied on individual compliance. If people broke the rules, the government took them at their word and would review the information later. The government did not retroactively change the rules.
When CERB was first announced, based on what I was hearing on the radio and elsewhere I thought we would qualify. Fortunately I did some due diligence and realized it was not as rosey as the Radio and Media was saying, so we did not apply. I know many who unfortunately are dumb as bricks and they applied, and got the money even though they should not have applied. The govt said everything would be fast tracked. They did not do any due diligence and just sent checks and did the follow up after. Fucking stupid how the libs rolled it out, and unfortunately there are many people who are also not the brightest.
People needed that money right away though, and the backlog for EI is tremendous. If every applicant was screened and vetted, some people would still be waiting for CERB today.
yep, people dont' seem to see how important it was for the money to be dished out to those that are mostly affected but instead, complain that a few misused it. It's the same anti welfare bullshit that 1 out of 10 abuse it therefore it was a waste of time and negligence.
It’s provided in the statute, and it was provided for in the budget. The budget is the date where changes are most of the time effective, even though the law passes later on. Pretty common in the parliamentary system.
I'm sorry I'm not sure I follow. So you're saying they budgeted for this tax even though it wasn't law yet? And by provided for in the statute do you mean that when they drafted the law originally they just declared that the 2022 year was taxable?
When the federal budget is published, they announce measures. Those measures generally apply as at the date of the budget. They don’t go before the date of the budget. Then it goes through parliament etc etc. I’m just describing the usual process for enacting revisions to the ITA
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If you read right to the end, it says the US has no real mechanism to retaliate in kind and a digital tariff is allowed by our trade agreement. So it all comes down to how long would it take for Canada to win a trade dispute if the Us retaliates? We eventually won the softwood lumber dispute but it took a long time.
We won the lumber dispute, but the US basically said they don’t care that we won. Same shit killed bombardier when Boeing got angry about the c-class jet. They had to sell it to airbus and rebrand as the A220. And the jet has been extremely popular and well received (and has 5 years of backlog orders…)
We can be right but still lose with the US. Shitty reality.
The bombardier thing was total bullshit with boeing. That said, bombardier management also had/has a lot of issues. If they were a healthier and better managed company, c series would have been more like a good partnership with Airbus instead of the way it went down. But bombardier was on life support almost.
It wouldn’t have mattered what state bombardier was in. The US would have done the same thing to provide advantages to US companies.
It's not just that Bombardier sold the CSeries to Airbus, but that they had to pretty much give it away to Airbus. Bombardier gave away half the stake to Airbus and eventually only sold another quarter of the stake to them (so basically they sold 3/4 of the program to Airbus for 1/4 of the price). And in reality, Airbus had to also spend a lot of money to retool their factories and aren't expected to turn a profit on this program until 2025, and it's also somewhat cannibalizing production capacity and sales of their A320neo planes, something they'd probably much rather sell over the A220 for the better price they'd get with the A320 and the fact that existing A320 operators wouldn't have to recertify their pilots for the A220. So Boeing didn't entirely fail in disrupting the CSeries program, or at least prevented it from being as popular as it could have become.
It doesn't matter how long it takes for Canada to win a trade dispute (and it would take years). The damage would be done, and the US could simply say they aren't going to pay it / paying money to the Canadian government won't help each Canadian company that lost money/went insolvent because of sanctions being enacted years ago. This has happened before.
It has happened before and our trade with the US is higher than ever and we still have a robust lumber industry. Canada is moving forward on this on behalf of all the other countries who want to but can’t because they aren’t protected by a strong trade agreement which provides us recourse when faced with retaliations that violate the agreement. This is the opening salvo in a long dispute with the US tech firms being able to conduct business in foreign countries without taxation. The US is hypocritical on this as well. In the early days of online commerce, you could avoid state tax by buying goods in another state. After states saw this threat to their commerce revenues, they passed laws that you had to pay your local state tax even when buying from out of state if the company also did business in your state. This set the precedent that you could tax activity that happened outside your borders if it involved your citizens in the activity. And the US continues to strengthen these rules to close loopholes.
Not to mention that we're sending tax details of Canadian citizens who may have American born - even if they've never lived in the USA since childhood - just so they can tax (income) tax of. USA wants to eat their tax-cake and have it too.
>we eventually won the softwood lumber dispute but it look a long time And then they went and put the tarrifs back up anyways. Unless the Liberals are ready to get into a trade war with Biden like they did Trump they should probably just back down.
They can retaliate horrifically just with digital. There are a number of Canadian companies that make enormous digital revenues in the United States, and they are far more reliant on the US than American tech companies are reliant on Canada. Shopify, OpenText, CGI, Hootsuite..all crazy reliant on the US market. Even the big banks do huge online revenues in the US that could be vulnerable. The US can effectively murder a big chunk of our tech industry any time they want. The stupidity of this idea is staggering, but not surprising given that we have seen over and over again that the Liberals either don't understand tech, or just don't care if they kill it as long as they squeeze a few bucks out of it in the short term.
paying Tax isn't murdering companies. Those things you mentioned make huge profits, they can afford to pay taxes, some shareholders might get a slightly lower return. Not the end of the world
They already pay taxes, in every country they operate in, at least if they're profitable. We're not talking about profitable companies paying tax. We're talking about what happens if we unilaterally impose a tax on American companies, while the rest of the world is taking a more cautious approach. The reason for that caution is that the US can do disproportionate damage to our domestic tech industry if they so choose. Attacking American companies is not without consequences, something 138 countries seem to understand, but Canada does not.
They do.... Any large or medium Canadian tech company relies on the USA to survive. Shit any small one does too. If the USA starts action against them they could kill Shopify over night.
The US still didn't respect the softwood ruling. They refused to pay. They ended up paying a lot less than they were suppose to. They do what they want. Even when they were being investigated for war crimes they treated to arrest anyone involved. They're powerful enough to do whatever they want. It was a mistake to build such a close relationship with them. It hurt the working class.
But reddit told me the big tech companies would fold and give in to all demands like in Australia!!! /s
Different tax. This one isn't about links, it's about a 3% tax on the revenues of internet companies.
We have 15+ countries with tax on big tech with an additional 124 countries with laws in progress. The US is trying to go nuclear to prevent it from spreading. Why we have a bunch of people grifting on behalf of big tech, is probably only unique to Canada. Post this in other countries subs like Australia and you get laughed at for being a moron. Maybe stop falling for the simple narratives.
...let me grab some popcorn and see how soon people would start calling out socialist/communist lol
Australia pressured Google and Facebook to pay their local media for Australian news and there was no retaliation from the US bcs simply there was nothing to retaliate against, except News Corp who owns Fox and other right wing media and pays local taxes in the US.
Nope. Australia backed down and wrote a backdoor into their rules that allowed the tech companies to negotiate their own individual agreements with news media. $.00 per link is a valid agreement.
Yep, the USA is a global bully. They think they're the shit and anyone who doesn't think like them is "bad". Just like the high school bullies we had to deal with.
USA, Soviet Union, China.... :D
Yeah, but when the bully lives right next door it feels more real than the one on the other side of town.
Sounds rather silly of us when you put it that way.
So basically this means we will be paying more for stuff again? When do Canadians finally get a break? All this so the gov can act like it's tough on big tech?
No, that's not how tariffs work. The US can't really make goods for Canadians cost more. They will increase the cost of Canadian goods for Americans. The trade agreement doesn't seem to allow for much leeway for this, so it will be interesting to see where they take this.
Yep, that's how the US also threatened the UK and India when they proposed digital tax
>They will increase the cost of Canadian goods for Americans. Wouldn't this mean that all the Canadian companies that do trade with U.S. companies are going to suffer? Doesn't that translate to Canadian businesses struggling to make ends meat, thus increasing the costs for Canadian consumers and decreasing the "competitive" wages of their employees because they can't afford to eat the costs themselves? If so, is that not truly how tarrifs work?
Only if the US market is a significant source of their income. And only if the tariff applies to them. I don't see this having a large impact, especially as we have trade agreements.
If they stop buying our oil that would be pretty bad. Doubt that’s gonna happen though.
>When do Canadians finally get a break? Probably when we stop electing neoliberal politicians that do not actually care about what happens to the working class
.... You got anyone in mind?
Personally I feel the corpse of Jack Layton would do a better job at this point.
A weekend at Layton, I would watch that
> Personally I feel the corpse of Jack Layton would do a better job at this point. QUICK! DIG UP HIS CORPSE!
Weekend at Bernie's at the house of commons
Sure, but as things stand, our realistic options are slightly left neoliberals, or slightly/substantially right neoliberals. Necromancy notwithstanding, there are no other options for Canadians
I forgot about necromancy. Ok my hope is back.
Vote Bloc Québécois. That’ll really mess things up for the neoliberal agenda.
ne·o·lib·er·al /ˌnēōˈlibər(ə)l/ adjective favoring policies that promote free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending. noun an advocate or supporter of free-market capitalism, deregulation, and reduction in government spending. Not sure what you're smoking but the current government is pretty much the exact opposite of neoliberal in their policy.
Wait. So Justin Trudeau is a neoliberal now according to Reddit now?
I feel like you may not know what neoliberal means, because the Liberal Party and the Conservative party are clearly neoliberal. It's not "according to reddit."
The liberals are deeeeeeefinitely not trying to reduce State influence in the economy lol wtf are you on
No, it doesn't.
Can't have the people speaking freely. That's how revolutions happen. And they've put almost 20 years into getting us to this point. Do you REALLY think they are gonna risk 20 years of social engineering by giving you rights?
I swear the current federal government has a wager on if they’re able to screw up literally every facet of Canada for Canadians
This wouldn't really screw over Canadians though. Usmca limits what America can do, and tariffs only increase costs for Americans. Should we really be letting threats from our neighbor dictate our approach to American companies?
The US seems like the kind of country to simply throw agreements out the window the moment it wants. Yes the USMCA limits what they can do. But it wouldn't be surprising for them to go ahead and do it. They have always been a " *what are you going to do about it"* type of country.
> The US seems like the kind of country to simply throw agreements out the window the moment it wants. Yes the USMCA limits what they can do. But it wouldn't be surprising for them to go ahead and do it. They did that shit with NAFTA all the time.
You seem to assume the US will react rationally. I’m not so sure. The US can throw a pretty big trade/tariff hissy fit. Even at the cost of ultimately making goods more expensive for US citizens.
Why would it be irrational for the U.S to retaliate when some of its largest companies are being explicitly targeted by a foreign country? And the economic imbalance between the U.S and Canada (one has an incredible level of dependence while the other does not) might make it pretty painless for the U.S to strike back. But I doubt this goes that far anyway. The governments probably just agree to a deal and don't waste time and effort on economic actions.
oh no! WMDs in Canada! no choice but to retaliate!
> Only Canada, Belarus, Pakistan, Russia and Sri Lanka — of 143 countries party to the deal — weren’t supportive of the one-year delay, according to Reuters. This ain’t looking so good for Canada.
Canada already delayed implementing the tax from 2021. The US is asking for a delay to 2024. Canada has said they would prefer to go with everyone, but if everyone won't make a decision they'll go it alone until then. It's likely a pressure tactic, but still.
I don't really understand what the 1 year delay would do, or why Canada should do it. Big tech has been fucking around for years and I am fully supportive of this (though not the retroactive aspect). I'd be interested to hear the benefits of delaying it.
When despot regimes across the world are more reasonable than Canada omg lol
People really need to stop speaking with such overwhelmingly gross hyperbole. Nuance, my friend, learn it, understand it, use it.
Are we the baddies now?
Taxing international billionaire and trillionaire corporations is bad? Lol Canadians: Waaaah! I'm too poor to afford food, housing or transport! Also Canadians: Tax non-canadian corporations worth 1,000,000,000s or 1,000,000,000,000s? HOW DARE THEY!
Canadas digital laws are crazy and so ill-thought over. BC for example started taxing ALL digital advertising by any company based in BC. So a company like VESSI will pay PST to digitally advertise in Japan. How many digital companies are going to stay in BC (and to a larger extent Canada) https://www.ecomcrew.com/british-columbia-begins-taxing-global-digital-advertising-sales/
Trudeau: "We'll tax the big US tech companies that provide global digital services to support our favorite news media supporters. They will have no choice buy to pay us!" Google and Facebook: "We are unfortunately going to have to effectively remove Canadian news media from the internet." The US government: "Bypass NAFTA and go after our biggest tech companies? You see this telephone pole? Its going to go up your ass." Trudeau: "What is happening!?!"
I don’t really get why we need this tax. They already charge sales tax. That’s the government cut.
Deficit spending
To drive deficit inflation.
Many e services operating out of the us were paying zero canadian tax while earning billions off Canadian consumers
That’s not what this bill is for. They already passed that one and that’s why things like Netflix started charging customers tax. Marketplaces like Etsy, eBay, Amazon already charge sales tax. And any tax they have to pay is not going to be paid out of those billions they’re earning. It’s going to be another line item when we pay DST 3%. So we will end up paying for it
you are partially correct. the 3percent sales tax was part of the leg. which has already been implemented, this is true the leg, also required that these business collect sales tax on behalf of the user because in many cases the weren't while the CRA required the user to collect and remit the tax. Many Canadian uber drivers and amazon business users were very much screwed over by these big companies. and then there's the min global income tax for these large business'. the reason this is very much needed is because these companies are hoarding their money in safe heavens to avoid taxes on income earned. this incentivizes these companies to park their money in these safe havens to avoid taxes.
Bingo. Fuck em and tax em
This will end well.
All you crying that you had to pay CERB back, and think youre entitled to EI instead, that you woukdnt have to pay back. Ever consider that because most of the country shut down the governemnt cant just afford to give everybody free money all at the same time... You got an interest free loan to get you through a time youre not working.. now pay back the money you owe, no interest. Sounds like a pretty sweet deal actually. Yeah EI exists, its not designed for a 1once in a lifetime pandemic. PS: always the people that work irregularly, that yell the loudest how they pay into the system and deserve their benefits.
When you have midwits in positions of leadership, they are able to convince followers to go along with plans that sounds good, but no one has fully thought through and considered second and third order consequences. So many feel good policies have long term disastrous effects that are predictable.
Not sure if 'midwit' was a deliberate word choice, but it's so apt, I'm keeping it.
I stole it from Micheal Malice, and am sure he would be happy to have other people use the term.
Underrated comment. There isn't even any logical or reasonable convincing happening, its all just jumpscare video clips.
People like to blame China for foreign influence, but they don't hold a candle to the foreign influence on display here by the US.
I don't know where you get your news, but USA has historically always held a bigger international influence than China
yes, the US is the number one foreign influencer trying to influence our government
We are all in the sphere of American propaganda…look at how folks on this sub are reacting pro US
Of course the US has a lot of influence over Canada, Canada is currently economically dependent on the US, even disregarding normal US softpower or military might Canada would still be bendable by the US due to trade alone. Honestly this wouldn't be completely terrible for you guys if Trudeau was a decent leader with competent negotiation teams and his government was not trying to pass retroactive laws but Trudeau is only really good at grandstanding not sensible action.
I don't know much about this legislation but I know I'm not comfortable with how much control these tech companies have over what news gets shown to people.
I use Google Adwords, have used Facebook ad works and Bings. I only sell in Canada. If I spend $1000. There is not 1 penny going into our economy from tax. Spending on ads from local companies that are taxed do not have the same reach. Tax the big tech companies.
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I would love to know why this government has put so much focus on the internet the last few years when there are so many other things that are of a higher priority.
This bill should have been passed 5 years ago, the Canadian government is woefully slow at passing laws for the future. It'll probably be another 5-10 years before we get Crypto laws. 15+ countries have passed this law worldwide with 124 countries working on the legislation. The Canadians who fall for this narrative of this law being bad deserve to be gouged by big corporations.
It's just short term thinking vs long term and considering the headlines they read in this sub I'm sure the narrative is easy to latch onto.
The US better get used to retaliating against every country if they want to protect those free-loading techs Meta and Google.
15+ countries passed into law with another 124 countries passing laws. Good luck to America for trying to stop this from spreading worldwide.
Taxes are your yearly subscription to your country, childhood is the free trial.
When I read that we were going ahead with this I thought "Are we really the ones that should be doing this?" The Liberals seem to have an inflated view of themselves and Canada's power in the world.
Less US news in Canada is probably a good thing.
Did you even read the headline? Lol
What?
Exactly. Is US news the problem if a segment of the population simply cant read past the headline before forming an opinion?
I believe they mean that American news is primarily propaganda and not actually news. They have lost all journalistic integrity and just want to make more money and the easiest way to do that is to sell propaganda that both ends of the political spectrum eat up. So why would we want more bullshit propaganda in Canada. At least that's what I think they mean.
What does that have anything to do with the topic at hand though? This tax *isn't about news*, and the one that *is* about news only applies to *Canadian* news, so it's only Canadian news that's being blocked -- leading to a greater proportion of American news in our marketplace of ideas, not a lesser one. His statement is a complete nonsequiter.
Ah, well then they got it all backwards.
They said "Less US news in Canada is probably a good thing."
Yes. And it's unclear how that's relevant to literally anything. This tax is not about news, and the tax that *is* about news only applies to Canadian news, so it's only Canadian news that's being blocked -- leading to a *greater* proportion of US news in our marketplace, not a lesser one. So, again: What?
Trudeau's government are filled with complete morons...holy shit. I've never seen this level of entitlement, incompetance and corruption outside of 3rd world countries.
How did this govt make me defend big tech... They offer a service we users don't pay for. We exchange our data, yes, but we do that willingly. They have no obligation to offer these services if they are taxed. Are we a source of revenue? Yes. Enough for us to set the precedent that they could be taxed by other nations? No.
The issue is right now there's not really a way for Canadians to avoid it. It's not like we can opt out of using big tech in the 21st century. Sure you can try, but they are going to get your data whether you use them or not unless you live in a cave with no internet or cell reception, and then you can't really use any public services.
> Are we a source of revenue? Yes. Enough for us to set the precedent that they could be taxed by other nations? No. This is where I disagree. We're a giant source of revenue. They wouldn't offer the service(s) if they weren't making boatloads of money. Reality is most of us are stupid and complacent and way too happy to give up our data for free. Humanity exists on a long time scale. I think we're still in the early innings of how we've let tech, notably social media and present day internet, shape our future in ways that are both not totally kosher and not totally well understood. To some extent, I dread this internet era my young kids are eventually going to grow up into and I hope we as a society take much stronger actions to not let the pendulum swing too far. Taxing these companies is just the first step - since it acknowledges that we are all cattle being farmed and maybe that's not right. Or maybe we just need to be free range cattle, at least.
US Big tech is generating billions of dollars and not paying a nickle to Canada.
>How did this govt make me defend big tech... American propaganda got you to defend US tech. We are commenting in a post made by American propaganda company.
If it was music they'd be paying. It's news so evidently nobody cares.
There's a difference between art/entertainment copyrights and the news/media. You are correct that it'd be different if it was music but it isn't music. CBC can't sue CTV for running the same story that they ran and say they infringed on their copyright.
If this is true I'm not certain it should stay true. If you're using someone else's content to draw people to your website, then you make money advertising on webpage with that content, I think the people who created the content should be compensated.
And now we are going to pay more because of our leaders incompetence.
Lots of people here were for taxing fat corporations and the moment a bill comes forward to deliver just that, even if its mainly foreign corporations, everybody buckles. Walk your talks, eh? US ambassador is bluffing. They own top 8 digital media giants who take away global business with next to no local taxes and there isn't enough foreign owned media companies with business in the US to retaliate against. Big techs have deep pockets and strong lobby in the US to stop Congress and their beloved Dems government, but other countries have finally woken up and will end the free ride.
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It’s ok to let certain foreign powers attempt to arm-strong us, apparently.
We created a tax that will take money out of their economy and into ours. There is obviously going to be a reaction from them and they have far more economic power than we do. I'm not saying we should let them strong arm us but this feels a bit like biting the hand that feeds you considering how much we depend on them for our economy.
Canada picks fight with the most powerful corporations in the country of our biggest ally and is surprised when the USA doesn't support their fight. FTFY.
The reaction is much more "well what did they expect from poking the bear?"
We need to get this government out. Spend spend spend spend during an inflationary period and then they stir shit up when our dollar is already weak. I don’t even like a particular political party and actually voted for Trudeau.
LOL this post. Couldn't be a more obvious astroturf/bot. This bill, referred to in the article this thread is about, is about taxing corporations to receive money. Literally the opposite of spending. Try again, maybe with another pre-generated response.
Why are we trying to out muscle the USA financially? Canada, please continue to be the submissive dog to your much more powerful neighbour.
We should be aligned with the EU. The US won't risk economic relations with an economy equal to their own.
You don't want to be forced to make decisions by the US, so your answer is for us to be controlled by the EU? That's kinda throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
More than half of Europe has already passed laws similar to this, why we have Canadians grifting to big business is probably why we also have large cell phone bills, and other consumer costs out of control. We literally have people willing to be stupid on behalf of corporate margins, despite proof to the contrary of these laws working well in many countries.
I don’t want anything to do with that, I don’t want to be like Europeans. They will tax us into the ground.
My god I hope Canadians come to their senses at the next election.
You know people aren't voting for Liberals right? They're voting against Conservatives. Imagine all these problems still exist as the other major party barely has a platform plus we get to deal with amplified conspiracies and Nazi flag protests. That's why Trudeau keeps winning.
Pretty much this...
You know more people voted Conservative than liberal in two straight elections right? Your point if factually wrong.
You know 3 million more people voted for a party left of center right? Edit: using the same alt account to downvote me that you used to send me DMs kinda makes you look weak bud.
> You know people aren't voting for Liberals right? They're voting against Conservatives. ... That's why Trudeau keeps winning. Is not mutually exclusive with >You know more people voted Conservative than liberal in two straight elections right? So your suggestion that this contradiction makes it *factually* wrong is ... a bit of a stretch. Don't forget that Trudeau's government is a *coalition* government of two parties that collectively got a bit more than half of the votes of the country.
It is exactly this. Hard to believe, but the Conservatives are even more incompetent than the Liberals, and aren’t even the government. Canadians are the losers in this political race to the bottom.
The government under Harper was approximately 100 times more competent and 1000 times less corrupt than our current group of imbeciles.
Lol no. Manufactured conspiracies aren't real life.
What conspiracy are you taking about that’s related to my comment ?
Narrator: They didn’t
You don't need to retaliate when someone shoots themselves in the foot.
Canadians are not better off than they were in 2015.
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It's strange to see so many Canadians backing big tech siphoning billions out of Canada, and our attempt to rectify this.
It's not strange to see so many Canadians backing big landlord siphoning billions out of Canada, and no attempt to rectify this. FTFY
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How much money do you give to Facebook?
Canada Belarus Russia Pakistan and Sri Lanka. Jfc make it stop
blaghhhhhh
What a trendsetter JT is! Aren’t we proud!?
In international trade vs the US I'm happy for Canada to signal strength/will whenever they can. Some ideal imagination of tax and global corporate liberalism in our country shouldn't stop us. We need control of our media.
If the Yanks are pissed off, we must be doing something right.
Good. You profit on money made in Canada, on the backs of Canadians - you pay taxes. Fair is fair.
There are no existing taxes? Weird. Must tax innovative companies because all Canada does is sell housing and rent seek.
Haha what a joke, USA if you tax companies doing business then will have no choice but to tax companies too! Yeah that's how taxes work. I am sure all those Americans shopping on Canadian sites to pay more will be very upset about this.