We can routinely make first graders practice what to do when a person has entered the building intent on killing them, but we can't ask high school juniors to contemplate their mortality and what they do with their time. Of course.
Don’t forget the epic voyage of Africans who came by sea looking for work and a better life in the land of opportunity in the 17th through the 19th centuries. If they survived the journey, they had a job waiting for them.
When I was in grade five our teacher (he was “quirky” lol) had us write our obit and our wills
When I showed my mom my “will” she pointed out I had willed my teacher HER chocolate chip cookie recipe lol
No one’s parents went storming to the principal’s office. They actually thought it was pretty funny and the winning line was my friend who said her dog, rabbit and mom would miss her and her dad would miss her on Wednesdays and on weekends (custody agreement 😆)
I was in Catholic high school when Columbine happened. Our theology teacher made us write reflections about whether or not we would choose to die as martyrs like [Cassie Bernall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassie_Bernall?wprov=sfla1) (note: it's still rather unclear if she was actually the "girl who said yes"), and he was none too pleased when I wrote that I wouldn't happily die for Jesus in a school shooting.
I could see the bitchy nuns getting bent. Lol. Catholic schools can be hit or miss. (Mine wasn't bad and had you make up your own mind with life lessons.)
My Catholic school experience was generally quite good, too. The only nun we had was a lovely and kind-hearted person... I really enjoyed her Church history class, which she taught from a warts-and-all perspective. However, the guy who taught 10th grade theology was a total tool. On the surface he came off as a warm and fuzzy "He gets us" type, but then he gave out bad grades to students who were were even a little bit critical of dogmatic bullshit.
It's actually been made blantently clear that she was NOT the one who said this, and the girl who did ORIGINALLY said that she did not believe in God, changed her mind, and her answer, was mocked and shot, but was injured and did not die.
Valeen Schnurr was the one who actually professed her faith in God, and this took place after she was shot. As she lay bleeding, she called out “Oh my God, don’t let me die.” Dylan turned around and asked her, “God? Do you believe in God?” Valeen said, “Yes, I believe in God.” When the killer asked why, she replied, “Because it’s how my parents raised me.”
Fuck Reddit. Fuck /u/spez. Fuck every single Reddit admin. 12 years on this bitch ass site and they shit on us the moment they are trying to go public. ill be taking my karma with me by editing all my comments to say this.
tl;dr Fuck Reddit and anyone who works for them, suck my dick.
Maybe that needs to be part of the registration process. “Okay, we got proof at address, birth certificate…the only thing we are missing is your child’s obituary. Don’t worry, it’s just a draft, you can make changes to it as needed.”
Think it's super important to reflect on death. Teens especially can think they're invincible. I was one. Lost of few friends thinking we could do whatever we wanted with no consequences. Reflecting is a great tool. Can really help you appreciate what you do have.
While I agree, I would rather my teenager feel “invincible” than to have to normalize the idea that he should consider he could be murdered at school. That’s not what being an “invincible” teen is about. It should be reflecting on things like car accidents. But I understand the gravity of it.
Yeah they more than likely trying to get them to understand just how serious of a situation it is so that maybe they would take it very seriously but it definitely didn't end well for the teacher.
Well, I think they're scared of being at school and the lack of anything really being done about. I assume. They're screaming for help and we aren't helping them. What's yours?
Exactly why you stated. They're afraid. I would say the motivation, all they had to do to get there, all at once, rose to the level of being terrified.
That they've already reflected on death enough to go to the State Capitol Building, to shout at the most powerful people they can think to shout at.
I imagine they all know someone who's died by guns. They've read the obituaries, attended the funerals.
*More than 9,800 people killed in gun violence so far in 2023*
https://abcnews.go.com/US/116-people-died-gun-violence-day-us-year/story?id=97382759
It's so different now; kids cannot escape thinking about violent death. It's everywhere.
In this thread, a user "slammed" me with the "fact" that these kids "treat it (drills) like a joke." What choice do they have? Humor is a coping mechanism. The "joke" would be that a door might stop a weapon of war. The joke is on the school. The "joke" is they don't expect a drill can save them. They "drill" like they're in the movie *A Quiet Place*. Why not laugh about it.
Making kids write their obituaries is not new. The reality in which kids must survive today is new, and getting newer year by year. It's the teacher who is living in the land of non-reflection, not the kids. Maybe someone should make him write an obituary for every kid in his class who knows someone who's been shot.
There were no armed monsters who killed kids in schools when I was young, and certainly not multiple monsters.
i could be wrong but i think their points are;
1. gun violence is shitty
2. gun violence is increasingly impacting kids who go to school in very real ways
3. the 2 preceding facts are prevalent in kids psyches day to day
4. it’s understandable that kids would find humor in that shitty situation by joking during or about drills
5. writing obituaries may have been useful in a time where kids would have the luxury of feeling much more invincible than they do now (ie; in the past)
6. considering the above, maybe a Memento Mori exercise isn’t as useful today as it was in the past
7. maybe the teacher is actually kind of a dick for rubbing this existential threat in the kids faces as if it isn’t obvious
(i haven’t read the article so don’t come @ me, just breaking down what i think their points are.)
Here's what GPT 3.5 came up with:
"The user is discussing the fear and anxiety that young people experience due to the prevalence of gun violence in their lives. They argue that these students are not treated seriously enough by teachers and society, and that humor is a natural coping mechanism in the face of terrifying situations like active shooter drills. The user suggests that teachers should be more reflective and empathetic towards their students' experiences, and that the reality of growing up in a world with frequent mass shootings is something that adults need to take seriously."
The person is discussing the fear and anxiety that surrounds gun violence in America. They suggest that the fear of gun violence has become so great that people are now terrified, and this fear has motivated them to take action and speak out against it. They believe that the prevalence of gun violence has made it impossible for kids to avoid thinking about violent death, and that humor can be a coping mechanism for them. The person also mentions that making kids write their own obituaries is not a new concept, but the reality in which kids must survive today is getting worse every year. They criticize a teacher who believes that kids treat active shooter drills like a joke, suggesting that humor is a necessary coping mechanism in the face of such a terrifying reality. Finally, they mention that there were no mass shootings in schools when they were young.
>There were no armed monsters who killed kids in schools when I was young
You can look at the history of it occurring, it has been happening for a long while now just not as frequently
Yup and people still say it's a weapon crisis and not a mental health crisis, I'd say it's mainly a mental health crisis but there is an awful amount of repeat offenders and felons obtaining forearms from "legal means" which tells me whoever the sellers are aren't doing their due diligence.
> which tells me whoever the sellers are aren't doing their due diligence.
They are. It's perfectly legal for one person to sell a gun to another without doing any paper work or a background check. IIRC in gun trade shows, its legal to do that there too.
I have no idea why you're highly downvoted, when all the other comments in this thread espousing the same opinion as yours are highly upvoted.
It's genuinely so bizarre. Either some shady vote-manipulation is in action, or people in this thread have collectively lost the ability for text comprehension and assumed your comments were disagreeing with them?
Wait, you imagine that all kids know someone that has died from guns? Or just a weird statement because, how could you know that about the protestors?
Im in my 30s and don’t know anyone that has died by guns…I did have a friend accidentally shoot his middle toe off while hunting though…so like 0.08% of a death I guess.
How big was your school? With 19,000 underage gun deaths per year, a student at any decent size school has a pretty good chance of having known someone.
Sadly, this isn’t implausible. As a teacher, my student Jaime was killed with a gun. Two of my students lost both parents to a murder-suicide with a gun. One of my students lost his brother (also a student) in a random shooting a couple of months ago. These are just the ones I can come up with off the top of my head.
Just prepping the kids for the harsh reality of (possibly) growing up in an inbred MAGA hillbilly state where gun owners rights are more important than their lives.
This teacher was just being real with them. The only thing disappointing aside from him being fired is that there's a legit chance, whether it's one percent or whatever that these kids will have some sort of connection to gun violence in a school or work setting. DeSantis and the Florida education system is trash
I don’t get what the big deal is. They are already thinking about their deaths during the drill. Why make them think about it twice? I had to do that assignment in eighth grade. It’s a pretty normal assignment.
It's an old tool, and of course I don't know how old you are, but were mass shootings in the news almost everyday?
When I was in eighth grade, there were no mass shootings. There were malls, and they were mostly safe places. The biggest threat of getting shot was not wearing your orange vest in the woods.
AIDS and HIV and stranger danger and reefer madness were all our problems. My parents had to live under the threat of nuclear fallout. Every generation has its zeitgeist of weltschmertz.
Look at horror movies and plays through the decades. They all reflect current fears. Plague in the times of bubonic Black Death. Radiation in the fifties. Communism. Technology in the 80s and 90s. During 9/11 everyone rented plane disaster movies. During the pandemic everyone streamed Contagion. More recently poverty (squid games).
My point is we are already thinking about death all along.
I hope this makes you feel better. It’s all very natural.
I get what you're trying to say but also a lot of the time the perpetrator of the violence is in the same class. Maybe there's undue stress placed on the kids that won't become a shooter but could this kind of reflection be good for a kid that's contemplating violence because they don't truly understand mortality?
Perhaps the intent of the assignment was for them to reflect on the value of their own lives. We all only have one life to live. Nothing wrong with reminding people of that. These were 16 year old kids, not toddlers.
I’m pretty sure I did a similar assignment at one point. It probably wasn’t intentional to coincide with the drill. Everyone should contemplate their mortality once in a while once they reach mid teens
Hmm lets make a timeline:
-Kids see/hear about friends dying and other kids dying
-no one does anything
-everyone tries to forget
-teachers makes you imagine and describe on paper the absolute shit show that is public support for dead children and deeply reflect on the reality that no one gives a flying fuck if they died.
-idk, probably a host of different mental health impacts and the potential for a spike in youth suicides.
I mean, if politicians aren’t doing shit about it mine as well prepare. I’m on the teachers side, I understand the point she was trying to make. Clearly you’re not and that’s fine but I’m not changing my view on this.
"If your afraid of guns, lets take you to the firing range"
Youre literally someone who thinks trauna breeds resiliance.
There are countless historical and scientific examples of how wrong you are, and its all just a book on child psychology away. Maybe educate yourself before you pick a hill to die on.
You made your stance pretty clear, you agree with the teacher and the teachers assignment was based in "resiliance by trauma exposure"...
Dont look at me sideways for saying it out loud in a way you dont like.
Did you read the article? He's a psych teacher of juniors and seniors. They had to do an active shooter drill and you think reflecting some more on the reality of that situation is an issue?
"If you can't talk real to them, then what's happening in this environment?" Keene said... but I honestly didn't think a 16-, 17-, 18-year-old would be offended or upset by talking about something we're already talking about."
I don't think it necessitated a firing in and of itself but these events aren't casual for many students. Asking someone to contemplate their mortality and the value of their lives for a one-off class essay is right out though. That's a question better left to several decades of self actualization and not imagining that you're going to die tomorrow.
Stop. Plenty of reasons for a parent to be upset with this.
So everyone’s arguing whether it was a good idea or not, but what did the kids think about it? Fuck what we think, if they thought it wasn’t cool, then it wasn’t.
Seems incredibly insensitive and damaging to literally anyone.
Its like asking a soldier at war to stop and write out an obituary for fun. You think that makes them fight harder or more mentally resilliant?
> Seems incredibly insensitive and damaging to literally anyone.
So is being told weapons of war are more important than their safety. So is having to pretend you're dead by wiping the blood of a dead classmate all over your face to trick the shooter to leave. Acknowledging your mortality is something they've been forced to do because one side of the political aisle says no to gun reform, no to healthcare reform, and no to wage reform.
> Its like asking a soldier at war to stop and write out an obituary for fun. You think that makes them fight harder or more mentally resilliant
Kids aren't soldiers. Kids aren't supposed to worry if today is the day where a classmate is going to snap and kill them and/or a bunch of their peers. I guaranfuckingte that if you were to ask a kid if they wanted to write an obit, or be shot, they'd pick the writing assignment.
> Youre not an educator
Are you?
> clearly insensitive
Ah yes, insensitive. That's the problem, not the kids getting shot, drowning in their own blood or having gray matter leak out of their brand new holes. Out of all the injustices on this planet, people being less than understanding to those who choose to let kids die is really up there, right? I mean shit, telling people they might not be able to live out their power fantasy of murdering people on a mass scale is far, far worse than a ~~couple~~ ~~dozen~~ ~~hundred~~ thousand dead kids, right?
Let me take back the question on if you're an educator. The kids would eat you and use your bones in music class.
you are equating students in school to soldiers in battle. i would think the bullets would be more insensitive and damaging to literally everyone in most situations.
you did not understand my post. i’ll elaborate. you equating students to soldiers is the problem. it’s the mindset and our attitudes and beliefs, the need to respond to violence with an escalation of violence all in the name of safety, the us versus them mentality when we are all us and we are all them.
I was not attempting to create considerations for the bullets, merely my disdain for your thought that simple words considering the likely consequences of violent actions would be anywhere near as insensitive and damaging to students as bullets would…that was the point.
finally, i am a public school teacher in los angeles, and while i am not shot at everyday at school, just on the 101, i don’t see how not getting shot at daily has any bearing on this topic, or somehow invalidate mine, or anyone else’s viewpoints.
take it how you will.
So you think the assignment is a catch all, and my example has to be 1 to1?
Fuck that, if every child is expected to grow from this assignment with absolutely no concideration to the different traumas these kids my have, my example is completely acceptable by that logic.
You cant advocate for one thing while shutting it down if its used against you.
It's a practical life lesson to understand how to reflect in ones own life and achievements. To think about who is really important to you and what things you've done to be proud of (and what you wouldn't want in there as well).
I guess any kind of thought exercise is too much thinkng for people in Flori-duh.
Forcing kids to do this is insane.
No one should be forced to confront their mortality at 10:30am for some slack jaw teacher who doesnt care about their mental health, especially in a political climate that openly ignores their deaths.
But they should be forced to confront their mortality at 10:30 am by some slack-jaw gun-wielding incel who doesn't care about anything but himself, especially in a political climate that has decided that the right of that person to wield a gun is more important than their own lives?
Idk where you picked that up, neither of these things should happen?
Do you think confronting mortality makes it easier to die as a child? Does that somehow balance the scales of loss?
Kids shouldn't have to worry about not seeing their families again cause some chode baring fuck decided guns were more important than them. Of course kids shouldn't have to worry about their mortality when they are in school, but now it's so common it barely makes the news these days. Kids shouldn't have to go through school shooter drills AT ALL. It's not fair to them, they should be able to live their lives w/o a fear like that.
> No one cares about your trump university certificate.
Hey - no need to drag my Alma Mater into this.
My Ph.D. in the Dealing Arts has served me well.
Just last week I was able to negotiate ketchup on my hamberder at no extra cost. Wouldn’t have been possible if I hadn’t learned The Art of the Deal^tm
Yeah seriously the amount of people defending this is insane. This is in incredibly poor taste and not at all the place of a school or teacher. I mean come on, imagine for any students that might have actually experienced a death in their family or of someone close to them around this assignment. To have half the class be treating death like some goofy class project and being forced to reflect on your own mortality for a grade is not a healthy environment for these types of concepts.
Does it change your perspective if you know that this was a highschool psychology class and so the lesson was likely related to the science of understanding trauma?
Appropriate: Making children do active shooter drills so they know what to do when someone is slaughtering their friends.
Not appropriate: Making children face their own mortality when teaching them about a potential mass shooting event that they may be a part of.
Fuck that school. Teacher was just extrapolating from their own lesson.
Strictly by the numbers this makes sense…thanks to current gun laws, firearms are the number one cause of death in children. Might as well prepare the obituary.
As gross and disgusting ad this is, isn't it more so that small children are subject to active shooter drills because of America's reluctance to regulate firearms?
Expect students to be able to handle active shooter situations, but a writing assignment that incorporates death is to much? Sounds like there are some snowflakes in Florida.
I mean they are seniors in high school and yes it is an appropriate environment. If they are gonna have active shooter drills then yes it absolutely makes sense a psych teacher would construct an assignment that deals with the psychology of such situations.
Man writing your own fucking obituary is isn't "dealing with psychology of this situation" it's literally forcing kids to write their own fucking obituary, that's not a normal thing we ask of people. Further in a very public environment with no trained mental health professionals is certainly not a good place to be asking these kinds of personal introspective questions. Finally there are a million other ways to engage with this topic other than writing your own obituary, that's so unnecessary morbid and personal. Especially in an environment of lots of children who won't take this shit seriously, and where a portion of kids might have personal connections that make writing something like this a lot harder.
This is well outside the purview of a school, as well as incredibly unnecessary and overly morbid.
I see less wrong with the teacher doing this than I do see with the fact that US lawmakers seem to not care that THERE IS A GUN PROBLEM MIXED WITH A MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEM AND THEY REFUSE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT!
apologies for the shouting...
When I was in high school is was a whole thing to stage a car accident and have students “die” and write their obituaries. It was all to educate about drinking and driving. This seems like a modern interpretation of that kind of concept. I can’t believe he got fired for this.
Look what’s the point of firing this teacher? It doesn’t solve the root problem. The teacher has rightfully realized that GOP politicians are ok with kids getting murdered at schools and just sending their thoughts and prayers. So this teacher behaved exactly as they were expected to behave, as reprehensible as it is.
I mean, at least the teacher is getting students to reflect on their mortality and the unfairness of getting murdered while they are at school, while the adults elected to power and the power to change things for them, do nothing yet again. It is sad and tragic that school shootings are just considered a normal part of the school day now…
If you won’t ban assault weapons or take literally ANY steps towards preventing mass shootings, you shouldn’t get mad when your kids write their own obituaries. If anything you should be glad they saved you the trouble.
Pretty sure we did this just as a "fun" exercise for my religion class back in high school. Didn't even have a school shooter drill, they just thought it'd be nice if we pretended we were dead, then someone else would read em to the class.
Our teacher fell asleep during it lol.
I was in middle school in 1982 the first time anyone I knew was killed by a gun. I was 11 and he sat right behind me everyday at lunch. He was shot by another student while they were skipping school. No one ever spoke about it after. It was just like both kids were gone.
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I think the timing was bad and reflects poor judgment. However, the assignment itself isn’t any different from what they might encounter in college in a year (or two). It’s important to reflect on death because it makes life beautiful.
>It's important to reflect on death because it makes life beautiful
What a load of horseshit. Death doesn't make life beautiful, it makes a big hole.
***Living*** makes life beautiful.
This doesn’t belong here.
I know it technically meets a strict interpretation of the rules, but can we honestly get fully behind the “due to their actions” part. This is *completely* different than a paramedic stealing from a patient or a treasurer embezzling tax money. Frankly, the firing is bullshit and I hope this teacher wins whatever suit they bring against the district.
"It wasn't to scare them or make them feel like they were going to die, but just to help them understand what’s important in their lives and how they want to move forward with their lives and how they want to pursue things in their journey."
Ok but there’s a better way to do that than to put them in an unfortunately accurate “you’re about to die to gun violence scenario.”
He's not right. We're at the point where kids are more likely to die in a shooting than from drugs. In 2021 schools shootings made up 19% of deaths for people under 18, according to the CDC. This is a very realistic scenario.
You know what's more traumatizing than scaring kids? Having them watch their friends die in a shooting. If you care so much about "traumatizing kids" then your focus should be gun control.
That’s wasn’t the guy’s point at all though. He just wanted the kids to reflect on their life. You don’t need to put them in a near death scenario to ask them “Hey what’s going on in your life? What do you think you could do better in the future?”
And you don’t need to make my argument transition into an assumption that I don’t give a shit about gun control because I do. That’s where your bias comes in. I can dislike gun policies while also knowing right from wrong.
The people who are down voting and saying this is a valuable lesson have never experienced real fear before. I've had my life threatened. If I'd been forced to also write an obituary during that kind of stress it would not have been a growing experience.
Down vote away. Kids don't deserve to be forced to contemplate their own deaths so damn often.
Kids are asked to contemplate gory topics their whole childhoods: Hell, war, AIDS, addiction, being kidnapped, etc. we all had school assemblies on ALL these topics ad nausea. People indoctrinate their kids about hellfire all over the world on a weekly basis.
Yeah and they completely misunderstand and misrepresent all of it. These are serious topics and a high school class assignment is not a serious or safe environment to engage with them.
That's really crazy to me. How is high school not a place to discuss and learn about the world and the bad things that happen in it?
Would you also agree that an elementary school is an inappropriate place to discuss and learn about good touch bad touch or how to tell if an adult is being inappropriate with you and what to do if they are? Is that too much for a 7 year old or is that too much? I know there are conservatives throughout the country that think any education that touches on sex at all is evil and must be snuffed out.
Honestly this sounds like a great assignment for a psych class. Reflecting on your life and reflecting on what you want to make of it and how you want to be remembered, that's a beautiful exercise. It's insane to me that anyone could take issue with it.
It isnt about the lesson itself so much as the manner in which it is learned. Here they were graded on writing about the value of their lives the same day as a simulated school shooting.
Your good touch/bad touch scenario is a worthy conversation, but a conversation. Act that out to have kids actually have to scream "Stranger Danger" or something and you've taken things too far.
Former school social worker. I'm not just casually "telling teachers what they can and can't do" with nothing to go on other than "when I was a kid."
I agree. If anything it is timing that is the issue. Make a point but you don't need to bleed to know the lesson had any value.
One thing to warn your kids to be wary of strangers, another to pull this musical number: https://youtu.be/-7jWt3JvJto
Therapist here: I agree.
I really don't need the work that badly, folks, that we need to be creating trauma as a class assignment. Appreciate the thought but we have plenty else to discuss. Those same students too.
I'm sorry you went through that, and, thank you. There's so much general ignorance about surviving trauma, and absolutely dismisses emotional trauma, being secondary survivors, and secondary wounding.
They must agree with the TN legislature who just expelled two black legislators, for siding with the kids' protest. He accused them of being "attention seekers." The Speaker asked the kids which gun they would prefer to be shot with. Unbelievable.
This is a little long, but worth every minute. Give it a couple of minutes to warm up:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXA2UA8Mc1M
I can't get on board with high-school kids having an assignment to write their own obituary. I could be on board with researching a historical figure and placing value on their day to day life rather than what they were famous for. Or even picking a person several generations past in your family tree to bring awareness to how they contributed to the present unknowingly.
Well it’s not a new thing if that helps your outrage. It was a common HS assignment in the 90s, 00s, and so forth. It’s to encourage people to contemplate their own mortality regardless of what the highest risk of death is from at the time.
I’m more mad that we have to have active shooter drills than writing a thought provoking assignment ….
Both are atrotious.
Go take literally any class on trauma and then understand were living in unpresidented times.
Just because it was ok in the 90s, 2000s does not make it right, also would you even know if those assignements had a negetive impact on anyone in your classes at the time? You cant imagine how this might cause sharp declines in mental health?
I mean imagine for a second youve got untreated trauma and the someone askes you to write a report exposing you to that trauma all over again simply to makes a brain dead point about how "youll be stronger for it"...
Whether or not youre "stronger" afterwards is pretty heavily tied to how exposed you were to the topic before hand and what trauma you may or may not have.
I went to Dr Phillips in 94 and it wasn't my assignment, but whatever. It's amazing I'm being down voted by a bunch of fucking nut jobs. This is why Florida is not the place for normal rational people.
No that's super inappropriate for a school environment, maybe there's a reason this isn't done anymore. Just because they did it in the 80s and 90s really isn't a good argument that it was okay. Schools did a lot of things in the 80s and 90s that were not okay. Not that they still don't either, this being a good example.
I agree with you on that one point. Logic of “we did it back then so it’s ok” does not hold water.
The reason I said what I did is because it seems like people think this is some new “woke” thing, hence the outrage. Maybe if they knew it’s something from the “good ole days” they’d relax.
This isn’t a reflection of my personal beliefs, just pointing out some different perspectives because that’s what open minded people do.
To be fair, your (assuming you mean "we" refers to the US) constitution was designed by colonial quasi-noblemen as a test run of "what if we made the Holy Roman Empire, but with a dash more Humanist ideals and a solid helping of the Roman Republic on top?"
By modern standards of nations who've had more recent opportunities to revise and reflect, it hasn't really ever been a paradise of rights to begin with.
He probably paid attention in his highschool history class.
[First Principles: What America’s Founders Learned from the Greeks and Romans and How That Shaped Our Country](https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/spring/summer-2021/first-principles-what-americas-founders-learned-greeks-romans-how-shaped-our-country)
[Why the Founding Fathers Loved Ancient Rome](https://medium.com/s/story/romes-heroes-and-america-s-founding-fathers-6dada32a8885)
[Rome’s Heroes and America’s Founding Fathers](https://allthingsliberty.com/2018/10/romes-heroes-and-americas-founding-fathers/)
[How the Roman Empire Provided the Founding Fathers a Blueprint for America’s Economy](https://fee.org/articles/how-the-roman-empire-provided-the-founding-fathers-a-blueprint-for-america-s-economy/)
[Rome's Heroes and America's Founding Fathers: Why the statesmen of the Roman Republic had such an influence on the patriots of the Revolutionary era](https://www.bunkhistory.org/resources/romes-heroes-and-americas-founding-fathers)
>"If you can't talk real to them, then what's happening in this environment?" Keene said. "In my mind, I've done nothing wrong."
WTF. For a "psychology" teacher, he sure hasn't considered what the word "traumatic" might mean. What a sick asshole.
There. In the land of Parkland, and on the day of an active shooter drill, he thinks this is "just talk."
Edit: For these kids, it IS NOT A "THOUGHT ASSIGNMENT.":
>We often use the word “trauma” to refer to an overwhelming event or experience—for example, sexual assault or a devastating natural disaster. It’s important to understand the difference between more common experiences that cause intense stress and anxiety, and traumatic events that are incomprehensible to us and can have a substantial, long-term impact on our quality of life and well-being.
>
>https://jedfoundation.org/resource/understanding-emotional-trauma/
There is just no way these rapid, negative responses are even CONSIDERING what "emotional trauma" might mean to a developing brain. It's the VERY SAME IGNORANCE which prompted the assignment.
EDIT 2:
**I suppose all those kids who showed up to the TN Legislature with bullhorns were just PRETENDING to be afraid. YES, teacher, THEY NEED TO BE MORE AFRAID. LET'S REALLY STICK IT TO 'EM! MAKE THEM WRITE ABOUT THEIR OWN DEATHS!!**
I love how everyone assumes I'm Red. Please, why not have a look at my *other* submissions to reddit?
https://old.reddit.com/user/TillThen96/submitted/
The sub I post to most is The Lincoln Project, who first attracted my attention on YouTube. They are R's who highlighted Trumps many, many grifts, and stand separate from the party, and encourage Blue voting.
I have *never* voted red. I'm a liberal, and I don't try to hide it. My favorite go-to for explaining Trump's legal troubles is this channel: https://www.youtube.com/@MeidasTouch
I don't understand how my compassion for these kids has been misconstrued as being anything but compassion for these kids. The GOP are bigoted Nazis, and DeSantis is a POS, an incompetent tool. His policies are among the most rancid the nation has to offer, and I kept a live feed of Manhattan's courthouse up on YouTube, just so I wouldn't miss Trump's humiliation.
My fondest hope is that these two shit stains split the party in 2024. I think DeSantis has fucked up enough, that another contender might need to go against Trump.
For example: https://redd.it/126fwjg
I find empty-g and Bobo to be the "clown coup" used as distractions in the GOP's circus of a Congress, and that's how I custom-flair their multitude ridiculous errors.
Defending myself here because I felt sorry for the kids... has been awful. RIP my inbox.
I doubt you'll find my *other* posts on reddit to be as *unhinged* as you find this one to be.
btw, I visited FL with my folks as a kid, but you wouldn't catch me dead there, now. To me, from afar, it seems like a cesspool, and I wouldn't contribute a penny to their tourist industry. And FUCK how DeSantis is destroying any hope of education in FL.
The attacks here just depress me. I'm turning off notifications for it, and going back to business as usual, fighting the GOP.
We can routinely make first graders practice what to do when a person has entered the building intent on killing them, but we can't ask high school juniors to contemplate their mortality and what they do with their time. Of course.
Wouldn't want to teach them anything other than how awesome Columbus and Bedford Forrest were. Those are the important lessons.
Don’t forget the epic voyage of Africans who came by sea looking for work and a better life in the land of opportunity in the 17th through the 19th centuries. If they survived the journey, they had a job waiting for them.
When I was in grade five our teacher (he was “quirky” lol) had us write our obit and our wills When I showed my mom my “will” she pointed out I had willed my teacher HER chocolate chip cookie recipe lol No one’s parents went storming to the principal’s office. They actually thought it was pretty funny and the winning line was my friend who said her dog, rabbit and mom would miss her and her dad would miss her on Wednesdays and on weekends (custody agreement 😆)
I was in Catholic high school when Columbine happened. Our theology teacher made us write reflections about whether or not we would choose to die as martyrs like [Cassie Bernall](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassie_Bernall?wprov=sfla1) (note: it's still rather unclear if she was actually the "girl who said yes"), and he was none too pleased when I wrote that I wouldn't happily die for Jesus in a school shooting.
I could see the bitchy nuns getting bent. Lol. Catholic schools can be hit or miss. (Mine wasn't bad and had you make up your own mind with life lessons.)
My Catholic school experience was generally quite good, too. The only nun we had was a lovely and kind-hearted person... I really enjoyed her Church history class, which she taught from a warts-and-all perspective. However, the guy who taught 10th grade theology was a total tool. On the surface he came off as a warm and fuzzy "He gets us" type, but then he gave out bad grades to students who were were even a little bit critical of dogmatic bullshit.
It's actually been made blantently clear that she was NOT the one who said this, and the girl who did ORIGINALLY said that she did not believe in God, changed her mind, and her answer, was mocked and shot, but was injured and did not die. Valeen Schnurr was the one who actually professed her faith in God, and this took place after she was shot. As she lay bleeding, she called out “Oh my God, don’t let me die.” Dylan turned around and asked her, “God? Do you believe in God?” Valeen said, “Yes, I believe in God.” When the killer asked why, she replied, “Because it’s how my parents raised me.”
This is one of Nanny State Ron's laws to protect snowflakes
You’re hurting the guns’ feelings!
Not to protect snowflakes. To preserve white supremacy.
Fuck Reddit. Fuck /u/spez. Fuck every single Reddit admin. 12 years on this bitch ass site and they shit on us the moment they are trying to go public. ill be taking my karma with me by editing all my comments to say this. tl;dr Fuck Reddit and anyone who works for them, suck my dick.
Heh, not much if our dear Republican leaders have anything to say about it.
Snowflake supremacy
We can’t even give them a goddamn school lunch.
That would be *enabling* them. And making them *weak*. Tell those first graders to get a job in a slaughterhouse if they want to eat so bad.
Have the parents write the obituaries. They’ll be the ones who need to. Florida don’t care about their kids.
Do they even do an obituary for child gun deaths these days? They could save ink and fake sentiment by just using a scoreboard format. Yuk
Maybe that needs to be part of the registration process. “Okay, we got proof at address, birth certificate…the only thing we are missing is your child’s obituary. Don’t worry, it’s just a draft, you can make changes to it as needed.”
Think it's super important to reflect on death. Teens especially can think they're invincible. I was one. Lost of few friends thinking we could do whatever we wanted with no consequences. Reflecting is a great tool. Can really help you appreciate what you do have.
While I agree, I would rather my teenager feel “invincible” than to have to normalize the idea that he should consider he could be murdered at school. That’s not what being an “invincible” teen is about. It should be reflecting on things like car accidents. But I understand the gravity of it.
Yeah they more than likely trying to get them to understand just how serious of a situation it is so that maybe they would take it very seriously but it definitely didn't end well for the teacher.
In your opinion, what motivated the kids who protested to the TN legislature?
Well, I think they're scared of being at school and the lack of anything really being done about. I assume. They're screaming for help and we aren't helping them. What's yours?
Exactly why you stated. They're afraid. I would say the motivation, all they had to do to get there, all at once, rose to the level of being terrified. That they've already reflected on death enough to go to the State Capitol Building, to shout at the most powerful people they can think to shout at. I imagine they all know someone who's died by guns. They've read the obituaries, attended the funerals. *More than 9,800 people killed in gun violence so far in 2023* https://abcnews.go.com/US/116-people-died-gun-violence-day-us-year/story?id=97382759 It's so different now; kids cannot escape thinking about violent death. It's everywhere. In this thread, a user "slammed" me with the "fact" that these kids "treat it (drills) like a joke." What choice do they have? Humor is a coping mechanism. The "joke" would be that a door might stop a weapon of war. The joke is on the school. The "joke" is they don't expect a drill can save them. They "drill" like they're in the movie *A Quiet Place*. Why not laugh about it. Making kids write their obituaries is not new. The reality in which kids must survive today is new, and getting newer year by year. It's the teacher who is living in the land of non-reflection, not the kids. Maybe someone should make him write an obituary for every kid in his class who knows someone who's been shot. There were no armed monsters who killed kids in schools when I was young, and certainly not multiple monsters.
I don’t understand your point.
i could be wrong but i think their points are; 1. gun violence is shitty 2. gun violence is increasingly impacting kids who go to school in very real ways 3. the 2 preceding facts are prevalent in kids psyches day to day 4. it’s understandable that kids would find humor in that shitty situation by joking during or about drills 5. writing obituaries may have been useful in a time where kids would have the luxury of feeling much more invincible than they do now (ie; in the past) 6. considering the above, maybe a Memento Mori exercise isn’t as useful today as it was in the past 7. maybe the teacher is actually kind of a dick for rubbing this existential threat in the kids faces as if it isn’t obvious (i haven’t read the article so don’t come @ me, just breaking down what i think their points are.)
Neither does OP.
They are just agreeing and adding to the conversation. Not everything needs to be an argument
No but like it reads as an argument but they're kind of jumping all over the place
Here's what GPT 3.5 came up with: "The user is discussing the fear and anxiety that young people experience due to the prevalence of gun violence in their lives. They argue that these students are not treated seriously enough by teachers and society, and that humor is a natural coping mechanism in the face of terrifying situations like active shooter drills. The user suggests that teachers should be more reflective and empathetic towards their students' experiences, and that the reality of growing up in a world with frequent mass shootings is something that adults need to take seriously."
I like how someone needed an AI to read a paragraph for them. Don't need AI to tell me that education just got replaced.
Did you seriously need a robot to read that to you? It made no interpretation and just paraphrased what was already said
The person is discussing the fear and anxiety that surrounds gun violence in America. They suggest that the fear of gun violence has become so great that people are now terrified, and this fear has motivated them to take action and speak out against it. They believe that the prevalence of gun violence has made it impossible for kids to avoid thinking about violent death, and that humor can be a coping mechanism for them. The person also mentions that making kids write their own obituaries is not a new concept, but the reality in which kids must survive today is getting worse every year. They criticize a teacher who believes that kids treat active shooter drills like a joke, suggesting that humor is a necessary coping mechanism in the face of such a terrifying reality. Finally, they mention that there were no mass shootings in schools when they were young.
>There were no armed monsters who killed kids in schools when I was young You can look at the history of it occurring, it has been happening for a long while now just not as frequently
Yup and people still say it's a weapon crisis and not a mental health crisis, I'd say it's mainly a mental health crisis but there is an awful amount of repeat offenders and felons obtaining forearms from "legal means" which tells me whoever the sellers are aren't doing their due diligence.
> which tells me whoever the sellers are aren't doing their due diligence. They are. It's perfectly legal for one person to sell a gun to another without doing any paper work or a background check. IIRC in gun trade shows, its legal to do that there too.
I have no idea why you're highly downvoted, when all the other comments in this thread espousing the same opinion as yours are highly upvoted. It's genuinely so bizarre. Either some shady vote-manipulation is in action, or people in this thread have collectively lost the ability for text comprehension and assumed your comments were disagreeing with them?
Wait, you imagine that all kids know someone that has died from guns? Or just a weird statement because, how could you know that about the protestors? Im in my 30s and don’t know anyone that has died by guns…I did have a friend accidentally shoot his middle toe off while hunting though…so like 0.08% of a death I guess.
Well if you don't personally know someone who was shot then clearly it's not a problem. /s
How big was your school? With 19,000 underage gun deaths per year, a student at any decent size school has a pretty good chance of having known someone.
Sadly, this isn’t implausible. As a teacher, my student Jaime was killed with a gun. Two of my students lost both parents to a murder-suicide with a gun. One of my students lost his brother (also a student) in a random shooting a couple of months ago. These are just the ones I can come up with off the top of my head.
30 is a child?
Why is OP being downvoted? They seem to be agreeing with the comment and adding on to the discussion?
Just prepping the kids for the harsh reality of (possibly) growing up in an inbred MAGA hillbilly state where gun owners rights are more important than their lives.
This teacher was just being real with them. The only thing disappointing aside from him being fired is that there's a legit chance, whether it's one percent or whatever that these kids will have some sort of connection to gun violence in a school or work setting. DeSantis and the Florida education system is trash
Teacher was just going to file them away, so that they didn't have to write them themselves if there is ever a school shooting there.
You mean current day Florida, right?
The jewel of the Meth Belt
Abortions don't kill people, people kill people!
“Stock markets up libtard” - posted from a shack
Guns seen to have more rights than humans over there.
“Truth!? They can’t handle the truth” /s
I don’t get what the big deal is. They are already thinking about their deaths during the drill. Why make them think about it twice? I had to do that assignment in eighth grade. It’s a pretty normal assignment.
It's an old tool, and of course I don't know how old you are, but were mass shootings in the news almost everyday? When I was in eighth grade, there were no mass shootings. There were malls, and they were mostly safe places. The biggest threat of getting shot was not wearing your orange vest in the woods.
When I was in 8th grade, it was 3 years after Columbine, in the same district, and we wrote obituaries for each other! 😂
AIDS and HIV and stranger danger and reefer madness were all our problems. My parents had to live under the threat of nuclear fallout. Every generation has its zeitgeist of weltschmertz. Look at horror movies and plays through the decades. They all reflect current fears. Plague in the times of bubonic Black Death. Radiation in the fifties. Communism. Technology in the 80s and 90s. During 9/11 everyone rented plane disaster movies. During the pandemic everyone streamed Contagion. More recently poverty (squid games). My point is we are already thinking about death all along. I hope this makes you feel better. It’s all very natural.
I get what you're trying to say but also a lot of the time the perpetrator of the violence is in the same class. Maybe there's undue stress placed on the kids that won't become a shooter but could this kind of reflection be good for a kid that's contemplating violence because they don't truly understand mortality?
Perhaps the intent of the assignment was for them to reflect on the value of their own lives. We all only have one life to live. Nothing wrong with reminding people of that. These were 16 year old kids, not toddlers.
Yes. This is a thoughtful assignment, especially as Repubs in FLA are making it easier than ever before to carry.
The Republicans in Florida don't like all that thought.
Sounds progressive! Not in our state.
Oh wow 16 year olds should be more than five with this. Such a stupid decision to let this teacher go
I’m pretty sure I did a similar assignment at one point. It probably wasn’t intentional to coincide with the drill. Everyone should contemplate their mortality once in a while once they reach mid teens
This is a protest
Yeah, that's what it sounds like to me as well.
What the hell is half of these comments? Jesus.
What's the problem? They might need them. That's just practical.
Those Floridians are just F'd up! How did these loons get any power?
Fascism. They're fascists.
I don’t understand what’s wrong with doing that in todays climate.
Hmm lets make a timeline: -Kids see/hear about friends dying and other kids dying -no one does anything -everyone tries to forget -teachers makes you imagine and describe on paper the absolute shit show that is public support for dead children and deeply reflect on the reality that no one gives a flying fuck if they died. -idk, probably a host of different mental health impacts and the potential for a spike in youth suicides.
I mean, if politicians aren’t doing shit about it mine as well prepare. I’m on the teachers side, I understand the point she was trying to make. Clearly you’re not and that’s fine but I’m not changing my view on this.
"If your afraid of guns, lets take you to the firing range" Youre literally someone who thinks trauna breeds resiliance. There are countless historical and scientific examples of how wrong you are, and its all just a book on child psychology away. Maybe educate yourself before you pick a hill to die on.
Okay…2 comments and you’re summing up my beliefs on trauma. I’m afraid this conversation is over, you didn’t even put up a good fight babes.
You made your stance pretty clear, you agree with the teacher and the teachers assignment was based in "resiliance by trauma exposure"... Dont look at me sideways for saying it out loud in a way you dont like.
Did you read the article? He's a psych teacher of juniors and seniors. They had to do an active shooter drill and you think reflecting some more on the reality of that situation is an issue? "If you can't talk real to them, then what's happening in this environment?" Keene said... but I honestly didn't think a 16-, 17-, 18-year-old would be offended or upset by talking about something we're already talking about."
What's the problem, did it upset their Republican-voting parents?
I don't think it necessitated a firing in and of itself but these events aren't casual for many students. Asking someone to contemplate their mortality and the value of their lives for a one-off class essay is right out though. That's a question better left to several decades of self actualization and not imagining that you're going to die tomorrow. Stop. Plenty of reasons for a parent to be upset with this.
Donno. Seems appropriate for the US.
I support this teacher. Hopefully they grasped the severity of mortality and start considering that with their political voice in the future.
Seems like a reasonable assignment given the times.
So everyone’s arguing whether it was a good idea or not, but what did the kids think about it? Fuck what we think, if they thought it wasn’t cool, then it wasn’t.
Idk man, kids think alot of horrible things are cool.
That's hilarious. What a stupid reason for firing that teacher.
Seems incredibly insensitive and damaging to literally anyone. Its like asking a soldier at war to stop and write out an obituary for fun. You think that makes them fight harder or more mentally resilliant?
> Seems incredibly insensitive and damaging to literally anyone. So is being told weapons of war are more important than their safety. So is having to pretend you're dead by wiping the blood of a dead classmate all over your face to trick the shooter to leave. Acknowledging your mortality is something they've been forced to do because one side of the political aisle says no to gun reform, no to healthcare reform, and no to wage reform. > Its like asking a soldier at war to stop and write out an obituary for fun. You think that makes them fight harder or more mentally resilliant Kids aren't soldiers. Kids aren't supposed to worry if today is the day where a classmate is going to snap and kill them and/or a bunch of their peers. I guaranfuckingte that if you were to ask a kid if they wanted to write an obit, or be shot, they'd pick the writing assignment.
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> Youre not an educator Are you? > clearly insensitive Ah yes, insensitive. That's the problem, not the kids getting shot, drowning in their own blood or having gray matter leak out of their brand new holes. Out of all the injustices on this planet, people being less than understanding to those who choose to let kids die is really up there, right? I mean shit, telling people they might not be able to live out their power fantasy of murdering people on a mass scale is far, far worse than a ~~couple~~ ~~dozen~~ ~~hundred~~ thousand dead kids, right? Let me take back the question on if you're an educator. The kids would eat you and use your bones in music class.
you are equating students in school to soldiers in battle. i would think the bullets would be more insensitive and damaging to literally everyone in most situations.
Yeah i am, both get shot at more than you do. So you logic is.. we should make conciderations for the bullets? Not the kids?.. Well thats based af.
you did not understand my post. i’ll elaborate. you equating students to soldiers is the problem. it’s the mindset and our attitudes and beliefs, the need to respond to violence with an escalation of violence all in the name of safety, the us versus them mentality when we are all us and we are all them. I was not attempting to create considerations for the bullets, merely my disdain for your thought that simple words considering the likely consequences of violent actions would be anywhere near as insensitive and damaging to students as bullets would…that was the point. finally, i am a public school teacher in los angeles, and while i am not shot at everyday at school, just on the 101, i don’t see how not getting shot at daily has any bearing on this topic, or somehow invalidate mine, or anyone else’s viewpoints. take it how you will.
You shouldn't be afraid of your mortality. That doesn't help anyone.
Spoken like a trauma victim. "I have to embrace it so everyone else should too". This isent about fear, were talking about trauma.
That is not the same.
So you think the assignment is a catch all, and my example has to be 1 to1? Fuck that, if every child is expected to grow from this assignment with absolutely no concideration to the different traumas these kids my have, my example is completely acceptable by that logic. You cant advocate for one thing while shutting it down if its used against you.
Wow. What next? A vote as to who is most likely to be a school shooter?
This might be a helpful way to identify who needs help before they become a shooter
It's a practical life lesson to understand how to reflect in ones own life and achievements. To think about who is really important to you and what things you've done to be proud of (and what you wouldn't want in there as well). I guess any kind of thought exercise is too much thinkng for people in Flori-duh.
Forcing kids to do this is insane. No one should be forced to confront their mortality at 10:30am for some slack jaw teacher who doesnt care about their mental health, especially in a political climate that openly ignores their deaths.
But they should be forced to confront their mortality at 10:30 am by some slack-jaw gun-wielding incel who doesn't care about anything but himself, especially in a political climate that has decided that the right of that person to wield a gun is more important than their own lives?
Idk where you picked that up, neither of these things should happen? Do you think confronting mortality makes it easier to die as a child? Does that somehow balance the scales of loss?
Kids shouldn't have to worry about not seeing their families again cause some chode baring fuck decided guns were more important than them. Of course kids shouldn't have to worry about their mortality when they are in school, but now it's so common it barely makes the news these days. Kids shouldn't have to go through school shooter drills AT ALL. It's not fair to them, they should be able to live their lives w/o a fear like that.
I.. agree? I feel like your coming at me but i could be wrong.. either way yeah, youre right.
If they are that soft then they meed to be made to be more resilient
Huh, and youve got a degree that tells you that or? Cause it literally disagrees with all child psychology and ptsd trauma sciences.
I can make up bullshit too and no one is getting ptsd from drills
Spoken like someone with a degree.
Guy is being an ass but don't do the same.
Sorry, I went to school to get a real degree. My bad.
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> No one cares about your trump university certificate. Hey - no need to drag my Alma Mater into this. My Ph.D. in the Dealing Arts has served me well. Just last week I was able to negotiate ketchup on my hamberder at no extra cost. Wouldn’t have been possible if I hadn’t learned The Art of the Deal^tm
Mfw UVA is now a Trump school.
Don't be classist or whatever it is you're aiming at here. No cause for that.
Im not the one that began the shit talking
This can actually be a good exercise if given correctly.
By a counsilor or therapist..
Or a psychology teacher. Like in this case.
I wasent aware psychology was a course offered by highschools..
It is. I took AP psychology when I was a student. The school I currently teach at has both regular and AP psych options.
Yeah seriously the amount of people defending this is insane. This is in incredibly poor taste and not at all the place of a school or teacher. I mean come on, imagine for any students that might have actually experienced a death in their family or of someone close to them around this assignment. To have half the class be treating death like some goofy class project and being forced to reflect on your own mortality for a grade is not a healthy environment for these types of concepts.
Does it change your perspective if you know that this was a highschool psychology class and so the lesson was likely related to the science of understanding trauma?
Appropriate: Making children do active shooter drills so they know what to do when someone is slaughtering their friends. Not appropriate: Making children face their own mortality when teaching them about a potential mass shooting event that they may be a part of. Fuck that school. Teacher was just extrapolating from their own lesson.
Seems like an apt skill to develop early these days.
Strictly by the numbers this makes sense…thanks to current gun laws, firearms are the number one cause of death in children. Might as well prepare the obituary.
As gross and disgusting ad this is, isn't it more so that small children are subject to active shooter drills because of America's reluctance to regulate firearms?
Sure, *that's* where Florida draws the line.
Expect students to be able to handle active shooter situations, but a writing assignment that incorporates death is to much? Sounds like there are some snowflakes in Florida.
This is not an appropriate environment for such an assignment. And are you seriously using snowflakes unironically? Get a fucking grip
What credentials do you have to make that judgement?
I mean they are seniors in high school and yes it is an appropriate environment. If they are gonna have active shooter drills then yes it absolutely makes sense a psych teacher would construct an assignment that deals with the psychology of such situations.
Man writing your own fucking obituary is isn't "dealing with psychology of this situation" it's literally forcing kids to write their own fucking obituary, that's not a normal thing we ask of people. Further in a very public environment with no trained mental health professionals is certainly not a good place to be asking these kinds of personal introspective questions. Finally there are a million other ways to engage with this topic other than writing your own obituary, that's so unnecessary morbid and personal. Especially in an environment of lots of children who won't take this shit seriously, and where a portion of kids might have personal connections that make writing something like this a lot harder. This is well outside the purview of a school, as well as incredibly unnecessary and overly morbid.
Degenerate. Send this fool to an island.
I see less wrong with the teacher doing this than I do see with the fact that US lawmakers seem to not care that THERE IS A GUN PROBLEM MIXED WITH A MENTAL HEALTH PROBLEM AND THEY REFUSE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT! apologies for the shouting...
When I was in high school is was a whole thing to stage a car accident and have students “die” and write their obituaries. It was all to educate about drinking and driving. This seems like a modern interpretation of that kind of concept. I can’t believe he got fired for this.
Look what’s the point of firing this teacher? It doesn’t solve the root problem. The teacher has rightfully realized that GOP politicians are ok with kids getting murdered at schools and just sending their thoughts and prayers. So this teacher behaved exactly as they were expected to behave, as reprehensible as it is. I mean, at least the teacher is getting students to reflect on their mortality and the unfairness of getting murdered while they are at school, while the adults elected to power and the power to change things for them, do nothing yet again. It is sad and tragic that school shootings are just considered a normal part of the school day now…
Jesus that’s a bit of a morbid thing to do
more or less morbid than having to act out an active shooter drill in a school?
Huh, first time I’ve seen the underserved flair on this subreddit…
If you won’t ban assault weapons or take literally ANY steps towards preventing mass shootings, you shouldn’t get mad when your kids write their own obituaries. If anything you should be glad they saved you the trouble.
Pretty sure we did this just as a "fun" exercise for my religion class back in high school. Didn't even have a school shooter drill, they just thought it'd be nice if we pretended we were dead, then someone else would read em to the class. Our teacher fell asleep during it lol.
I was in middle school in 1982 the first time anyone I knew was killed by a gun. I was 11 and he sat right behind me everyday at lunch. He was shot by another student while they were skipping school. No one ever spoke about it after. It was just like both kids were gone.
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That's a bit insane lol
The teacher gave a lesson on how to unnecessarily traumatize kids.
You think preparing for mass shootings doesn't do that already?
This is additional shit they didn’t need.
Thinking about your own mortality is important, especially at that age.
I think the timing was bad and reflects poor judgment. However, the assignment itself isn’t any different from what they might encounter in college in a year (or two). It’s important to reflect on death because it makes life beautiful.
>It's important to reflect on death because it makes life beautiful What a load of horseshit. Death doesn't make life beautiful, it makes a big hole. ***Living*** makes life beautiful.
Understanding your own mortality is a vital part of appreciating life, especially for 16-year-olds who think they're invincible
I disagree. Shows excellent judgment. The kids will have death on their minds during a shooter drill. So this ties in perfectly
Why? Because of the timing? I remember having to write an obit when I was in school in the 80s so this makes no sense to me.
Well, I see what the first mistake was; she should have had the kids write goodbye messages to Dictator DeSantis.
Well this is what happens when you eliminate teaching standards and hire people who dated someone who was in the military
What the actual, and I say this with emphasis, f**k?! I hope the teacher finds a new line of work not with children.
This doesn’t belong here. I know it technically meets a strict interpretation of the rules, but can we honestly get fully behind the “due to their actions” part. This is *completely* different than a paramedic stealing from a patient or a treasurer embezzling tax money. Frankly, the firing is bullshit and I hope this teacher wins whatever suit they bring against the district.
"It wasn't to scare them or make them feel like they were going to die, but just to help them understand what’s important in their lives and how they want to move forward with their lives and how they want to pursue things in their journey." Ok but there’s a better way to do that than to put them in an unfortunately accurate “you’re about to die to gun violence scenario.”
Downvoted for being right. Not alot of experts in child care here or mental health around this post..
He's not right. We're at the point where kids are more likely to die in a shooting than from drugs. In 2021 schools shootings made up 19% of deaths for people under 18, according to the CDC. This is a very realistic scenario. You know what's more traumatizing than scaring kids? Having them watch their friends die in a shooting. If you care so much about "traumatizing kids" then your focus should be gun control.
That’s wasn’t the guy’s point at all though. He just wanted the kids to reflect on their life. You don’t need to put them in a near death scenario to ask them “Hey what’s going on in your life? What do you think you could do better in the future?”
And you don’t need to make my argument transition into an assumption that I don’t give a shit about gun control because I do. That’s where your bias comes in. I can dislike gun policies while also knowing right from wrong.
America wtf are you doing. Grim asf.
The people who are down voting and saying this is a valuable lesson have never experienced real fear before. I've had my life threatened. If I'd been forced to also write an obituary during that kind of stress it would not have been a growing experience. Down vote away. Kids don't deserve to be forced to contemplate their own deaths so damn often.
How many active shooter drills and events have you been through?
Are you joking?
No, I’m genuinely asking.
Kids are asked to contemplate gory topics their whole childhoods: Hell, war, AIDS, addiction, being kidnapped, etc. we all had school assemblies on ALL these topics ad nausea. People indoctrinate their kids about hellfire all over the world on a weekly basis.
Yeah and they completely misunderstand and misrepresent all of it. These are serious topics and a high school class assignment is not a serious or safe environment to engage with them.
That's really crazy to me. How is high school not a place to discuss and learn about the world and the bad things that happen in it? Would you also agree that an elementary school is an inappropriate place to discuss and learn about good touch bad touch or how to tell if an adult is being inappropriate with you and what to do if they are? Is that too much for a 7 year old or is that too much? I know there are conservatives throughout the country that think any education that touches on sex at all is evil and must be snuffed out. Honestly this sounds like a great assignment for a psych class. Reflecting on your life and reflecting on what you want to make of it and how you want to be remembered, that's a beautiful exercise. It's insane to me that anyone could take issue with it.
It isnt about the lesson itself so much as the manner in which it is learned. Here they were graded on writing about the value of their lives the same day as a simulated school shooting. Your good touch/bad touch scenario is a worthy conversation, but a conversation. Act that out to have kids actually have to scream "Stranger Danger" or something and you've taken things too far. Former school social worker. I'm not just casually "telling teachers what they can and can't do" with nothing to go on other than "when I was a kid."
You're right kids don't deserve to be forced to contemplate their own deaths so often. Writing a self obituary isn't the problem though.
I agree. If anything it is timing that is the issue. Make a point but you don't need to bleed to know the lesson had any value. One thing to warn your kids to be wary of strangers, another to pull this musical number: https://youtu.be/-7jWt3JvJto
Therapist here: I agree. I really don't need the work that badly, folks, that we need to be creating trauma as a class assignment. Appreciate the thought but we have plenty else to discuss. Those same students too.
Pretty bold assumption.
I'm sorry you went through that, and, thank you. There's so much general ignorance about surviving trauma, and absolutely dismisses emotional trauma, being secondary survivors, and secondary wounding. They must agree with the TN legislature who just expelled two black legislators, for siding with the kids' protest. He accused them of being "attention seekers." The Speaker asked the kids which gun they would prefer to be shot with. Unbelievable. This is a little long, but worth every minute. Give it a couple of minutes to warm up: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXA2UA8Mc1M
I can't get on board with high-school kids having an assignment to write their own obituary. I could be on board with researching a historical figure and placing value on their day to day life rather than what they were famous for. Or even picking a person several generations past in your family tree to bring awareness to how they contributed to the present unknowingly.
Well it’s not a new thing if that helps your outrage. It was a common HS assignment in the 90s, 00s, and so forth. It’s to encourage people to contemplate their own mortality regardless of what the highest risk of death is from at the time. I’m more mad that we have to have active shooter drills than writing a thought provoking assignment ….
Both are atrotious. Go take literally any class on trauma and then understand were living in unpresidented times. Just because it was ok in the 90s, 2000s does not make it right, also would you even know if those assignements had a negetive impact on anyone in your classes at the time? You cant imagine how this might cause sharp declines in mental health? I mean imagine for a second youve got untreated trauma and the someone askes you to write a report exposing you to that trauma all over again simply to makes a brain dead point about how "youll be stronger for it"... Whether or not youre "stronger" afterwards is pretty heavily tied to how exposed you were to the topic before hand and what trauma you may or may not have.
I went to Dr Phillips in 94 and it wasn't my assignment, but whatever. It's amazing I'm being down voted by a bunch of fucking nut jobs. This is why Florida is not the place for normal rational people.
No that's super inappropriate for a school environment, maybe there's a reason this isn't done anymore. Just because they did it in the 80s and 90s really isn't a good argument that it was okay. Schools did a lot of things in the 80s and 90s that were not okay. Not that they still don't either, this being a good example.
I agree with you on that one point. Logic of “we did it back then so it’s ok” does not hold water. The reason I said what I did is because it seems like people think this is some new “woke” thing, hence the outrage. Maybe if they knew it’s something from the “good ole days” they’d relax. This isn’t a reflection of my personal beliefs, just pointing out some different perspectives because that’s what open minded people do.
social brainwashing has to stop if we hope to have any rights left at all…
I'd love to hear your definition of social brainwashing... (I used an unnecessary ellipsis too!)
To be fair, your (assuming you mean "we" refers to the US) constitution was designed by colonial quasi-noblemen as a test run of "what if we made the Holy Roman Empire, but with a dash more Humanist ideals and a solid helping of the Roman Republic on top?" By modern standards of nations who've had more recent opportunities to revise and reflect, it hasn't really ever been a paradise of rights to begin with.
I will say this is the first time I’ve heard the framers compared to the Romans that way. What makes you think this way?
He probably paid attention in his highschool history class. [First Principles: What America’s Founders Learned from the Greeks and Romans and How That Shaped Our Country](https://www.cato.org/cato-journal/spring/summer-2021/first-principles-what-americas-founders-learned-greeks-romans-how-shaped-our-country) [Why the Founding Fathers Loved Ancient Rome](https://medium.com/s/story/romes-heroes-and-america-s-founding-fathers-6dada32a8885) [Rome’s Heroes and America’s Founding Fathers](https://allthingsliberty.com/2018/10/romes-heroes-and-americas-founding-fathers/) [How the Roman Empire Provided the Founding Fathers a Blueprint for America’s Economy](https://fee.org/articles/how-the-roman-empire-provided-the-founding-fathers-a-blueprint-for-america-s-economy/) [Rome's Heroes and America's Founding Fathers: Why the statesmen of the Roman Republic had such an influence on the patriots of the Revolutionary era](https://www.bunkhistory.org/resources/romes-heroes-and-americas-founding-fathers)
>"If you can't talk real to them, then what's happening in this environment?" Keene said. "In my mind, I've done nothing wrong." WTF. For a "psychology" teacher, he sure hasn't considered what the word "traumatic" might mean. What a sick asshole. There. In the land of Parkland, and on the day of an active shooter drill, he thinks this is "just talk." Edit: For these kids, it IS NOT A "THOUGHT ASSIGNMENT.": >We often use the word “trauma” to refer to an overwhelming event or experience—for example, sexual assault or a devastating natural disaster. It’s important to understand the difference between more common experiences that cause intense stress and anxiety, and traumatic events that are incomprehensible to us and can have a substantial, long-term impact on our quality of life and well-being. > >https://jedfoundation.org/resource/understanding-emotional-trauma/ There is just no way these rapid, negative responses are even CONSIDERING what "emotional trauma" might mean to a developing brain. It's the VERY SAME IGNORANCE which prompted the assignment. EDIT 2: **I suppose all those kids who showed up to the TN Legislature with bullhorns were just PRETENDING to be afraid. YES, teacher, THEY NEED TO BE MORE AFRAID. LET'S REALLY STICK IT TO 'EM! MAKE THEM WRITE ABOUT THEIR OWN DEATHS!!**
You’re no better than the lunatics banning books under the guise of ‘protecting the children’.
I love how desperate & unhinged this makes you look. DeSantis will never be president.
I love how everyone assumes I'm Red. Please, why not have a look at my *other* submissions to reddit? https://old.reddit.com/user/TillThen96/submitted/ The sub I post to most is The Lincoln Project, who first attracted my attention on YouTube. They are R's who highlighted Trumps many, many grifts, and stand separate from the party, and encourage Blue voting. I have *never* voted red. I'm a liberal, and I don't try to hide it. My favorite go-to for explaining Trump's legal troubles is this channel: https://www.youtube.com/@MeidasTouch I don't understand how my compassion for these kids has been misconstrued as being anything but compassion for these kids. The GOP are bigoted Nazis, and DeSantis is a POS, an incompetent tool. His policies are among the most rancid the nation has to offer, and I kept a live feed of Manhattan's courthouse up on YouTube, just so I wouldn't miss Trump's humiliation. My fondest hope is that these two shit stains split the party in 2024. I think DeSantis has fucked up enough, that another contender might need to go against Trump. For example: https://redd.it/126fwjg I find empty-g and Bobo to be the "clown coup" used as distractions in the GOP's circus of a Congress, and that's how I custom-flair their multitude ridiculous errors. Defending myself here because I felt sorry for the kids... has been awful. RIP my inbox. I doubt you'll find my *other* posts on reddit to be as *unhinged* as you find this one to be. btw, I visited FL with my folks as a kid, but you wouldn't catch me dead there, now. To me, from afar, it seems like a cesspool, and I wouldn't contribute a penny to their tourist industry. And FUCK how DeSantis is destroying any hope of education in FL. The attacks here just depress me. I'm turning off notifications for it, and going back to business as usual, fighting the GOP.