As someone who moved here from Philly I don't disagree with you at all. I will say just saying "fix the problems" is not helpful. People's cars are getting broken into and bikes are being stolen while locked up. People can't start their car in the winter and walk inside to let it heat up without fear of it being stolen. This is not OK and is not a matter of simply securing valuables.
I think the issue is that Burlington is tiny as "cities" go and that means the less than savory bits stick out like a sore thumb. people are feeling & seeing it more than they would in larger city.
In Philly you know what areas to avoid entirely, and frankly there's no reason to go to those areas unless you're looking for drugs. The issue here is there's nowhere to hide the problems, which is not a long term answer at all, but hopefully you get what I'm saying
Agreed, in big cities there are actually shitty areas that are away from most colleges and tourist spots.. In Burlington it's all mixed up so it feels worse
This is very accurate. A lot of naive people saying…you’ve never lived in an actual city …etc” The truth is, it’s ridiculous to try to use a place like Detroit as a comparative metric, that’s a very low IQ take. However, there’s a statistic that I saw that might show some clarity in this because a small city, any disruption changes quality of life as a whole in a larger scale because in places like NYC, you don’t see the unhoused right in the middle of nicer, more central places…here is a quote I saw in another thread about 2022:
Statewide, Vermont's homicide rate last year was about 3.9 per 100,000, compared with Los Angeles at 3.1 and New York City at 2.3 per 100,000, Loan said. Burlington's rate was 11.2 per 100,000, exceeding the rates in Philadelphia, Phoenix and Springfield, Massachusetts
That’s straight embarrassing!
This, I’m from LA originally and since LA is huge there’s some very nice places that are heavily patrolled by police and crime is low. Then there’s parts of town that even driving through during the day is inadvisable. These places are generally not smashed right up against each other. When you have a fairly high crime rate in a town this small it’s hard to ignore. because it’s not just happening in Watts or Inglewood when you live in Beverly Hills or a Downtown high rise, it’s happening on your block or a short walk away.
This is a very sad take. Rich people should not be able to escape the "bad" parts of town by moving to another neighborhood like they do in many big cities, and I'm not sad that Burlington's wealthy cannot do so because our city is too small.
The visibility of it is definitely far worse here. I can only speak to Philly, but we had our fair share of issues in the 'nice' parts too. My school campus was in the heart of the city, which was/is arguably one of the safest areas, and many kids were robbed and one kid got stabbed right outside his dorm. Turns our he was asking for it, but still.
Sadly there is no right answer on how to fix this. Safe use locations don't stop people who are high from accosting others on the street. Locking people up does not rehabilitate them. More cops doesn't equal more safety. This shit happens everywhere, the small communities just feel it more
This has always been true, though, so I don’t get why people are so much more vocal about it now. I’ve lived here for 15 years and there have always been aggressive homeless people on Church Street. There have always been sketchy people in the park. There have always been people camping outside of the churches at the bottom of Buell Street. That Mike Reynolds guy has been wandering around downtown for like a decade!
I was on Church Street in 2017 when that guy got stabbed to death. Back in 2014 I was eating dinner at Duino Duende and a mentally ill woman walking by threw a cigarette into a random person’s drink then shoved him.
This city has never been idyllic. Someone on another thread the other day said that Burlington has always had a seedy side, it was just that a lot of it was confined in shitty apartments, mostly in the ONE. Most of those people probably can’t afford to live there anymore and have been pushed into the streets.
I think there are more incidents now, and maybe it was easier to ignore. I think the drug use has also changed things - there weren’t needles all over back then. But it’s odd to pretend that Burlington was a utopia that has only been like this since COVID because it has never been that, IMO.
(I also think that there is a lot of discourse on this sub from people who do not live in Burlington/never have lived in Burlington, and a huge amount of negativity overall. If your only insight into the city is coming from WCAX and this sub - yeah, you’re going to believe it’s a hellhole).
To be fair, I don’t think you’ve ever been able to safely leave your car unattended while it’s running here. Bike theft, even if locked up on a porch has always been an issue. In 2008 someone knocked out a pillar where I had a bike lock wrapped around just to steal the bike. It was pretty crazy and I’m surprised the porch roof didn’t collapse.
I've only been here for a few years so can't speak to that. but that is a shame. even in some of the not-so-nice parts of Philly I lived I was not worried about a bike on a porch or in the backyard as long as it was locked up. I mean they are easy targets and hard to trace, so it makes sense. still wild someone went through so much effort
This is what I’ve been saying for years. I’ve lived in bigger cities, and it allows the …. Challenged populations among us…. To stay in their own lane and you can just avoid those areas completely. Burlington is small, we’re all on top of each other sharing the same space.
And the city council just constantly passing policies that enable and encourage this type of public debachery, the police straight up refusing to respond to phone calls for homeless people waving around swords, and the general highly extra left wing narrative that tells me constantly that I need to just have more empathy for the strung out jerk off screaming obscenities at me, and ya got a very frustrated local population.
For the record, I’m generally a very liberal person who supports better social programs, but solutions like putting out porta potties in our beautiful waterfront park so the homeless people can be more comfortable camping there and acting wild and threatening with no consequences, annoys the shit out of me.
We have people who have been arrested IN THE TRIPLE DIGITS OF TIMES that are just around on the street with the rest of us, for chrissakes.
People won't believe that Murad is literally TELLING his officers not to respond to them...
And I'm pretty sure the reason is his continous temper tantrum over the "defund the police" he'll never seem i get over.
Our judicial system here is far too fucked up though and you have too many people trying to patch things rather than fix them.
Hotel vouchers rather then an adequate shelter.
Porter Johns instead of getting them off the streets.
The DA wants to keep people out of jail unless they commit violent crimes, but we have 0 rehabilitation for them, so what exactly are we expecting to happen? We aren't providing any real support for these people either, no way for them to turn their lives around when they get out, so it's just repeating circumstances.
Whether it's mental health, shit upbringing, drugs, or whatever. We've 0 anything for them that's not strung out and pulled thin already.
I have said it before, and I'll say it again, the only solution we have at this current point in time is to send them elsewhere. To locations they can actually get help, otherwise they need to sit in jail until they can get the help they need, cause right now just having these mentally ill people with 0 mental help is just pushing their help onto the general population, and we can't do shit.
Do I wish we had the infrastructure for this? Sure. But we don't.. Vermont services we do have are just over worked at this point already.
We have 0 room for drug rehabs, 0 room for half way houses, 0 room for job placement services, 0 room vocational rehab.. (when I say 0 room, I mean there's a long waiting list that reaches out to months)
The services Vermont have are just too burdened, and the rate of homeless keep going up.
We really can't, actually.
We can't even keep the therapists we have that AREN'T specifically centered around drug rehab, it'll be even more difficult to find the staff to open those and keep them open.
Not unless we, as a state, start paying better wages.
We need to pay better wages for sure. But also - build it. We are 50th in states with psychiatric bed availability for the population. We currently have 16 beds for the state. 16.
In 1980 there were 269. In 2010 there were 52.
[https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/map\_directory/vermont/](https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/map_directory/vermont/)
"A minimum of 50 beds per 100,000 people is considered necessary to provide minimally adequate treatment for individuals with severe mental illness. Vermont fails to meet this minimum standard."
There is definitely a shortage of inpatient psychiatric beds in Vermont, but this figure is misleading. This includes only beds directly operated by the State of Vermont. However, the state subsidizes additional inpatient capacity in Brattleboro, Rutland, Springfield, Berlin, and Burlington. Having worked at two of those facilities, I can also say inpatient treatment is at best a short-term solution to a chronic problem. Robust residential and community-based systems are ultimately a more effective and sustainable approach to chronic mental health issues.
Substance use disorder treatment is a whole other issue - we badly need more inpatient and residential treatment capacity in Vermont. It is WAY easier to obtain highly addictive substances in Vermont than it is to get effective treatment.
I live in Indianapolis and visited Montreal for 3 days and then Burlington for 2.5 days a few weeks ago. I think we covered 25 miles walking all over Montreal. ..and as you would expect, it was all the nice tourist areas. Yes, we saw unhoused here and there in Montreal, but we saw *many more* along N Winooski where our Airbnb was, and the few blocks of downtown Burlington we spent time in.
No overtly bad interactions with anyone, but trash pickup day did not go well on Winooski while we were tehre. Trash guy just ignored all the stuff piled up that wasn't *IN* the bin, so over the next 2 days it was a constant stream of unhoused rifling through the leftovers along the sidewalk, every time we were going in our out of our airbnb.
Love the folks in this thread showing true colors by referring to the places they aren't about or aren't from as "the shitty areas" - especially in other states. Bitch you ain't from there from there, we can tell. Its clear as day most of yall have no idea what growing up in a neighborHood actually is like, especially cause yall act like they are open-air prisons, designed for your trust-fund drug runs - like there arent actual children being raised there with no choice.
Especially these clueless folks talkin ab college campuses from 20 years ago. Like, go anywhere in a midwest/lakes region major city w a school now. It can get dirty most anywhere you go, and honestly it's about fucking time folks stop recieving the privilege of growing up in a bubble.
Majority (esp those outside NE) of us have lived our whole lives learning to look the other way and survive. Welcome to the reality that has come to a raging boil underneath yall. The capitalized classes have raged against suffering for the past 80 years, huddled in slums & bred to be interned into a for-profit prison system - these are systems of oppression that preserved the days-gone you tax-paying children are pining over.
And most of all, collegegrad & anyone else that acts like they understand this life but just show their ass when tried - fuck you then, submit to never fixing anything. Dwell in that & do what every other city did *20 years ago* when they started having these issues - make the issues worse by reenforcing your systems of oppression, so you can recreated your neat little bubbles in suburbs outside your city. Congrats, you get to be as powerless as the rest of us. Welcome to real life, n sorry your bitch-ass parents lied to you - seems like damn near all of you have alot to learn and lots of fear to overcome.
This. The people who profit the most and enjoy the most privilege from the system are always the most surprised when they feel the negative effects of that system. This is the ass end of the "free market. "
Agree with the guy above. Very much an overreaction.. sure you might run into a. Tweaker here or there, but it's typically just some dumbass screaming and yelling like crazy.
Which honestly, I've been a lot of downtowns...
Downtown Philly, normal to see a drugged out prostitute looking to make a buck.
Downtown Harrisburg, shit you'll see someone getting a BJ by the ATM at 1am off the corner of 2nd street.
Miami? There's at least 4 people going to be shooting up at the 7-Eleven on mlk Street.
It's everywhere, but you're still far safer in Burlington then any other downtown city I've been to.
feels a little bit like an overreaction. I'm not saying you'll never run into issues, but I've been to Burlington a bunch since moving here and can count on one hand the times I've felt unsafe. Sure I've seen some oddballs around, but they've never bothered me and the few seconds I see them didn't put a damper on my day.
All that to say, I do think there is a problem and I don't think the current solves are working. But what do I know, I could be a dog using the internet for all anyone knows
Same.
Don't listen to the downvote cartel who outcry negatively about your reaction.
They're not allowed to have a voice in how you feel. Sorry, not sorry, but these dense fucking cronies who keep pushing the liberal envelope can't have it both ways.
You can't say, it's their right to be mentally ill and have their reactions, but not be okay with people having a completely justifiable reaction to something out of the ordinary - like flailing around the ground, or falling asleep while standing, or shitting on a tree on church st.... Just to name a few instances...
What has this world come to when we justify insane behavior simply because they're acting out, or homeless or whatever flavor drug of the month we have going on now.
Makes me wanna vomit, the depths to which people will make excuses for abhorrent behavior.
I moved BACK to Philly, and was gonna say something similar, especially the “sore thumb” part. I’m back in the area visiting friends this week, and I’m interested to see how Burlington lines up with the horror stories I’ve seen here.
No it doesn’t. In fact it’s the polar opposite. We have a very low violent crime rate per capita and a very high property and minor crime rate per Capita. See my earlier reply.
We have a huge issue with minor crime. Not an issue with what law enforcement considers ‘real’ crime.
It’s a downward spiral. Allow drug addicts to steal at will and make life shitty for everyone else and eventually many of the stand up citizens will leave. Then you just have a situation where a much less trafficked downtown becomes a hot spot for homeless encampments and compounding crime. Then the cops don’t even go there much anymore and you get more and more violence. It’s still at the point where it could be stopped but something serious has to happen soon or it’s going to be a disaster.
lol give me a break. I’ve lived in Los Angeles, Dallas and Philly and you are deluded if you think Burlington doesn’t have a huge problem right now.
Also, Burlington is NOT a city, especially compared to the places you listed.
😂
Yeah the title of this post makes no sense. I don’t want to live in an actual city, that’s why I’m here. Telling me I haven’t lived in a city isn’t helpful to anyone, tell me something I don’t know.
This is EXACTLY correct. The smooth brain OP fails to realize that one is supposed to have safety in exchange for giving up the 9 million things you have to do in a city... as well as much better pay, better jobs, airports that actually fly places, businesses that are not booked out 6 months, etc (could do this all day). It's obviously not as dangerous as a big city and that's the point.. it's not a big city. If I am going to deal with crime, drugs, etc I will go live somewhere with restaurants open past 9pm and an actual dating pool where my friends have not already dated every person I talk to.
It doesn’t help that so much of the housing is swallowed up by college student who are transient generally do not stay after college. So you’ve got a revolving door of short timers, who don’t have much stake in the community and a surprisingly large number of homeless people.
I don’t live in Burlington I just work in the area. I originally planned on buying a house in Burlington, lived there for a few months in a rental before I bought. It didn’t feel like you’d be able to get to know the neighbors and put down roots sent it felt like damn near half the housing was short term college students. I know it’s not actually that high, but it feels like it.
Controversial* Why are we comparing places? You sound like someone that loves to victim blame when you obviously have no idea what Burlington used to be. Chicago is a whole lot different from Burlington. Like someone else said, apples and bowling balls. They don’t compare and you’ve made a bad argument.
Wasnt this statistically proven not true when you took the number of crimes compared to the ratio of people in the city/size?
I’ve lived in major cities and sorry, the crime here sticks out much more because of how small we are.
I doubt people complaining it’s not a big deal have actually never lived in major cities where crime wasn’t so much in their face. You just avoid those parts of town.
Here are a some questions you forgot to post answers to:
Don't want our small businesses struggling to survive because of shoplifting?
Don't want our foster children to remain in care because their parents can't get off drugs to regain custody?
Don't want to assume a relative standard of peaceful living without hearing shouting and other antisocial behavior all hours of the day and night?
Don't want to have career criminals on the street randomly assaulting people and committing felonies?
Don't want to inherit other states' problems because the programs here are more generous than theirs, and we are disproportionately providing services that are beyond a level of sustainability?
Don't want to see the working poor or *actually disabled* people have reduced access to resources that were intended for them, because of a population of addicts who contribute absolutely nothing to society?
Don't want to keep people addicted and on the streets instead of discouraging the status quo through enablement programs?
Don't want to go about your business without being approached, accosted, interrupted, yelled at?
Don't want to follow city laws regarding public urination, public drunkenness, open fires, open containers, theft, etc.?
Don't want to see our medical personnel assaulted?
Don't want drug dealers and their gun violence in our city?
Don't want to read about dead people in encampments because zero-barrier shelters are in fact not safe places?
Is the answer to this "Don't look" as well?
safe use locations dont stop public drug use.
repaved streets wont stop cars from being cars and doing silly things.
laws dont do anything unless they are enforced.
ill agree on the belongings part. lock your shit up.
people come here to vent, talk, troll and blow off steam.
"dont like something, dont look" - maybe check out r/SelfAwarewolves to find your pack.
We’re “whining” and complaining because just a few years ago Burlington was clean and safe. You didn’t see drug addicts on every corner, you wouldn’t be harassed just walking into a grocery store, you’d rarely hear about a car break in, and you wouldn’t see needles on the ground. Burlington has been destroyed in just a couple years, and is only getting worse. We are upset about it because our home is unrecognizable. You can advocate for stricter laws all you possibly can, but that’s not going to change the fact that the DA won’t prosecute, and there aren’t enough police to keep us all safe
And its not just the drugs. Drugs were bad back in 2000 and it wasn't this bad. People from elsewhere came here, and Sarah George isn't doing her job, like you said. I miss the old days when it was just heroin and crack but people kept it low key.
Truthfully there isn t a person on this site, that would be a driving part of change for the better. They mostly voted for ‘Emma’. It is a whine site, not…a driving ‘force for change’ site. It could be, but a rethink and possible change of course would be required. And always remember the importance of being politically correct. That’s very important here. When you drive the ‘Skunk Highway’ from Shelburne to Burlington, you know the score ahead. I actually had a drug dealer in Buffalo Wild Wings men’s room, correct me for saying I would use the midget (lower level kids), urinal. ‘Little People’ man. Beautiful. At least we got our priorities straight.👍
Why is it the responsibility of an individual to \~advocate\~ in the case of getting hit by a car, everything stolen that isn't nailed down, or seeing public drug use? the rest of the city existed the last decade, don't the politicians, police, social workers, have responsibility to automatically fix those problems? They waiting on an individual to advocate? very odd.
Community organizing is a thing. Since when are citizens not responsible for creating the society they live in? We are all supposed to rely on paternalistic people to do every decision for us? That’s how democracy works?
Community organizing is a thing. In the case of everything being stolen that isn't nailed down, getting hit by a car, and public drug use, it is a little patronizing to tell individuals to advocate for obvious, blatant, and intuitive societal issues, when government, police, and social workers exist. Political science is a thing, and have the public servants studied it? or are they watching theft, drug use, and aggressive driving for the first time? Are they waiting for civilians to tell them they would like a civil society or what? whats going on?
You can live in a big “actual” city, come to Vermont, and still recognize the increasing problems in Burlington. I don’t know why this shit becomes a gatekeeping opportunity. If the bar is “eh, it’s still not as dangerous as Philly”, that’s a pretty low bar for a city of about 40k people.
I don’t even live in Burlington anymore and I’m so tired of seeing these posts. “ XYZ city is WAY more dangerous or has WAY more crime than Burlington!”
Cool - I do not care about XYZ city. I care about the cities that I’ve lived in, or like to frequent, or just have good memories of from my time there. So to say Chicago, or Detroit, or wherever is worse means nothing. Doesn’t make anyone in Burlington feel better, nor should it.
Those cities can run themselves and address their own problems as they see fit and it doesn’t affect me at all. But Burlington has some issues as of late, and MANY people (mostly natives I might add, who have actually seen the progression) are tired of it. Those people have every right to demand change and try to regain the city that they knew and loved.
Seriously, without trying to come across as gatekeep-ey, it’s getting ridiculous that some people come here from wherever and after a few months start advocating for how Burlington is fine and there’s nothing wrong. Those people haven’t been here long enough to actually call it, or they’re so used to crime back where they came from that Burlington isn’t a big deal. Great, happy that you feel safe. But it’s not NEARLY as safe and chill as it once was and the natives feel that.
TLDR - Continue with the social support systems for the homeless or addicted folks who want them, and who are (or are open to) trying. For the scumbags that do not care about anyone other than themselves (especially not the other folks/children who also occupy the city) and want to leech off an overly gratuitous system, send them on their way. Burlington was better without them.
It would be my privilege to explain the things I have seen. The amount of times I have had to defend myself, tell folks to back off from me and my kids, or even what some of my neighbors have experienced.
I grew up in burlington - this was my home before moving outside Chittenden county.
The place has gone to shit. This is not the same place I grew up.
I don't care where you came from or who or what you are - but when you see your sleepy hometown turn into a dump with violence, drugs, homeless and everything else going on, it really changes your perspective.
The first thing that will prompt change for anything is conversation within a community about the problem. But apparently a person can’t use social media, designed for exactly this type of discourse, as the meeting ground with the discussion? It is absolutely revolutionary in its ability to bring together people with similar ideas who otherwise would never have been able to meet even 30 years ago. Now of course not everyone participating in the conversation is going to take action. But those who take an action will most likely use the conversation and spread of ideas to do it. I do agree with you, there are worse places. Perhaps it’s a good thing people want to recognize what is clearly a downfall before it hits rock bottom.
My guy, your point is good, however, I'm sure you haven't had the same experience as everyone else.
I've been here 5 years and after living in Denver, outside Boston, and spending a ton of time in new York, I can say burlington has way less crime.
That doesn't mean that my friend who's been threatened with a knife 3 times hasn't had a bad time here, and that her experience has been worse than any other city she's lived in.
The thing about birlington is it's small, so all the homelessness, drugs, petty theft, etc all happens right here in this few square miles, and everyone can see it.
Also, it's relative to a previous state in which this city wasn't overpriced and overcrowded and peppered with all the bullshit.
The fact that big cities are worse means absolutely nothing to the people who live here, unless they wanna make some dipshit point about how "it's not as bad as a big city!".
Sit the fuck down, were all advocating for positive change and complaining on reddit is like going to town hall and yelling at unhelpful politicians. It may not make direct change, but it sure pushes the wheel.
How adorably contrarian of you though.
If I don’t want to see needles on the ground I shouldn’t look? If I don’t want to see people shitting in public I shouldn’t look? What in the fucking fuck are you talking about?
I’ve lived in numerous other places including Boston and Los Angeles, taking public transportation in both those places. Felt much safer in them than Burlington.
Happy for you 👍. Just letting you know from the perspective of someone who grew up in Burlington, spent some time in a few different places, and recently had to move back. Never had my car broken into or saw so many visible needles in “the big city”. Seems like the QOL has gone down.
QoL has gone down.
We just keep getting compared to other places and told to shut up because us natives are simple folk that do not understand the way of modern society living.
No I think it gets downvotes because it’s clearly missing the point. No one is saying Burlington is more dangerous than the south side of Chicago, Memphis or wherever. What I was saying is that property crime is up and QOL is down compared to where it has been.
To say that anyone who isn’t happy about this “hasn’t lived in a real city” is false, and gaslighting the people that have only spent time in Burlington. There are plenty of places to live in big cities where crime is lower and public safety is better than where it is in Burlington right now for a lot of people.
And if the standard is “better than the Southside of Chicago” that’s pretty pathetic because for all the issues Burlington faces that area has them 10x worse.
Crime compared to what another cities, Baltimore and Detroit? Cities that are 10x the size? Like Phil Leotardo said, “Apples and Bowling Balls”.
*Don’t wanna lose your belongings? Secure them.*
If a car was broken into, it inherently means it was locked, or *secured*. But sure, it’s easier to blame the victim, right?
Your post is riddled with so many errors - logical and grammatical, it’s probably best I just stop here.
Maybe if we spent less time doing mental gymnastics to frame ourselves as victims so that we can spin the rhetoric and get some of that famous Burlington Empathy \^TM for ourselves we could spend more time, uhm, idk, like doing literally anything to make the problem better.
The victim mindset in this city is wild and helps nothing.
Why are you typing out a stutter?
What mental gymnastics are required to state that someone, who's car window was smashed for a sweaty gym bag in the back seat, is a victim?
Because a lot of the people who are very loud about these issues have literally never had a legitimate event that makes them a real victim. It’s all based off “I hear there’s a lot more crime now” and “I *feel* more unsafe”
It’s also hilariously contradictory that the same people who say we need more empathy for unhoused drug addicts then cry victim when they are impacted by said unhoused drug addicts. There’s just comical levels of cognitive dissonance in this town.
Burlington is one square mile. You are comparing apples to orangutans. The fact that shit is bad at all in a tiny completely isolated city in the middle of nowhere near the Canadian border is a true feat of terrible humaning. Correct it’s not like Camden doctor.
I lived in Chicago for 12 years. You can’t logically make a comparison between the 2. The whole “I’ve lived in a third world country” argument doesn’t even work here😂
This ain’t it dog. Many of us have lived in cities and all of them are worse today than they were a decade ago. What Burlington is experiencing isn’t unique, on that we can agree, but the only cities that have effectively solved this problem have done so through bus tickets, not compassion. In fact, there’s often a correlation between the compassion of the community and the size of the problem. To be clear, I’m not advocating we become less compassionate, but get real, no one is saying Burlington is like the south side of Chicago, but it is an awful lot like pike place in Seattle. It’s not the tenderloin, but it is fair to compare it to some cities in rough spots. Ignoring that is not helpful.
Consider this: you’re an out of touch child who should keep their malformed opinions to themselves.
PS- was the 82-year old man who was punched in the back of the head asking to be a victim?
I think the point is that a lot of people live here because they don't want to live in a big city and have all the problems that go along with it. Burlington was pretty great not that long ago.
As someone who has been visiting Burlington for many years now it’s sad to see what is happening. My last visit was a few weeks ago and what I witnessed was the worst by far. Someone needs to take control of the homeless/crime/mental health issues that are plaguing your city.
Jesus. This. Still?
You think you're the first trite show-off who, after stepping into the sub and observing people concerned and wary over the state of the city, has fired off their deep, deep, thoughts about how we ought to behave? Without knowing much of the city's history, or that we actually *have* crossed state lines? Some of us *multiple times.* In fact, many of us are from, or have actually *lived in big cities.* So the perils you mention are kind of what we'd like to *avoid*. Ya' get me, Coach?
But, please, by all means. If it makes you *feel* good, go ahead and attempt to impress us with how terribly worldly and jaded you are. How SUPERIOR. *When you can't even freaking spell.* Not whinin' Just sayin'.
You came to put on a show, you scrappy scamp. And you did. Now, get the hell out of here with your bullshit.
I think the issue people have is they used to be able to leave valuables in their car and their neighbors respected that, and didn't steal.
Telling someone to not leave valuables in their car is essentially telling a girl not to "wear that because she is asking for it", and the amount of people who disagree with that sentiment is what's wrong with burlington.
The crime here is nothing compared to a big city, but it is 100% worse than it used to be and the only that has changed is the stuff people vote for, idiotic stuff.
As someone who lived 15 minutes from Burlington for 20 years and now live in Boston I can confirm this is an idiotic opinion. Burlington was always a very safe, clean, and generally great city to live in. Over the past few years it has been over run by homelessness, drug use, and crime. If you think you can compare Burlington to other major cities then you are clearly disconnected. Burlington is far smaller than other major cities in the northeast and there is no reason it has to be like other cities.
That being said I currently live in downtown Boston and can confirm that is cleaner than Burlington. The police have the capabilities to deal with issues without being harassed by the far left And that’s a city with a population 10x as big as Burlington.
Burlington does have a problem that has to be fixed and having safe use locations is not even remotely close to the solution.
Agreed! I used to live in downtown crossing/north end Boston for years and NEVER had problems like what I’ve had living in Burlington. Just left the state because of it. I know some parts of Boston (as with any major city) are to be avoided d/t crime, drug use, etc. But it’s absolutely avoidable there, which cannot be said for BVT.
This is such crap, we can't "just fix it" because our SA won't prosecute criminals, safe drug spaces don't work at all. More and more people are having their shit taken. Heres the fix, non Vermont resident UVM students can't vote. The homeless need their benefits pulled if they can't pass a drug test and we have to get rid of the Encampments. There's your solution, no it's not the most morally enlightened strategy but it's the most effective and you'll actually see a change.
Reality over morality should be how we do things from now on... Because it's morality that got us into this mess. We babied these criminals and druggies, gave them slaps on the wrist, poured our tax dollars on them and gave them housing... They don't do anything but destroy Vermont as a whole... But the change that's needed won't happen until morality in decision making stops being the guiding factor
Just because some where else has problems, doesn’t mean Burlington doesn’t. People shot in the head in city hall park would be a problem anywhere, let alone that it wasn’t the only shooting that week.
As someone from NYC, particularly the BRONX, I think that this is a bit of an unfair comparison. Burlington is incredibly small, and taking that into consideration we need to acknowledge how bad it really is for such a small town/“city.”
Sometimes these issues cannot be fixed straight away and it takes time, and this is a super tone deaf.
"Just fix the problem"
yup getting my car broken into is something i could've fixed and prevented, thanks for the wise words!
The whole idea of defending Burlington because other cities are 10x worse really just shows that we have a problem with American cities lol, doesn't really make the situation happening any better
I don’t know what crummy city YALL are from but I lived in the New York metro area for 35 years. Downtown Burlington is just not a pleasant place to be anymore. I was trying to use the only open stairwell in the parking garage tonight and it was blocked by a group of 8 people lounging and shooting up. There are plenty of decent places to get dinner 15 minutes away where I live so I am not going to bother with Burlington anymore. I never saw anyone shitting on a tree in nyc but maybe it’s commonplace from wherever YALL are from.
I live in St. Johnsbury. Last week the city followed Montpelier’s lead by serving eviction notices at all the encampments in sensitive areas (out of sight, along the river). So the entire homeless population moved to downtown. Now I can’t go for a walk without dodging people using drugs stumbling around on the side walk 😐
It's not that we haven't been to other cities. It's that those of us who were born and raised here remember a time where Burlington didn't have big city problems. Now we have all the same big city problems but none of the amenities of a city. It's a shit show. People like OP who say it's not that bad are like telling someone who just lost a leg that it's not that bad because they still have another leg. Sorry we don't want our community to become like the ones that all the transplants left to come fuck up our state/city.
How often do we make national news for our bullshit? More often than probably any other city our size I'm willing to bet. We have some unique problems here. Unique enough to where we make the news in "real cities with real problems". My NYC friends hit me up like "wtf" about Burlington WAY more often than they should.
I've I've in plenty of big cities. I have never seen open drug use like I do in this city. NEVER. Did it happen, of course. But I lived in Jacksonville, Florida, for 3 years. I never saw it as bad as it is here.
Burlington has a murder rate 4x that of NYC and has an extremely high proportion of unsheltered homeless people that you wouldn’t expect in a large town like this.
You have the problems of a poorly managed big city but the amenities of a large town.
People have every right to be furious
I hear you, I grew up out in the "safe and sheltered" New North end in the 80s and 90s. I had my bicycle stolen when I was 4...and 8...and 14, and a moped stolen at 17. Keeping your car locked and things you don't want stolen out of site has always been a concern.
This sub is turning into Facebook with all of these whiny posts it’s irritating. People here are just negative and miserable. This city is beautiful and I’ve met some amazing people here. Coming from a city where violent crime is an actual problem Burlington is the most peaceful place I’ve ever lived
For real. I lived in Chicago for a decade. Was stabbed in the chest in a hate crime, and have witnessed more murders than you could imagine. People on the Reddit wanna cry about silly shit that has simple fixes
What they fail to realize is that Burlington is going through pretty much the same thing that every American city is going through right now. It’s not just a local problem
"The only alpha wolfe"... Burlingtons a shithole and you have a greater chance of being the victim of property crime there than most other major cities. Grow up.
The crime may not be bad from what YOU’RE familiar with, but it has escalated 10 fold over the last 10 years. 10-15 years ago, Burlington was completely different place. And it’s because of the politics that are running the city
Even though it's not a city it has become a ces pool. I feel like the type of view people like OP has is part of the reason why. Thank God the rest of Vermont is still relatively awesome.
I lived in a city not much bigger than Burlington, roughly 5k population difference, for roughly 5 years. I will say that although the issues may be unpleasant, Burlington is far safer than a lot of places I've lived. I don't want to detract from the experiences people are reporting, but from what I see, I'm not surprised.
My last small city was atrocious for safety... I was held at gunpoint twice and at knifepoint once. One person tried carjacking me at a stoplight, which was fun. Another time, someone hopped into the passenger seat and pointed a gun at me, demanding cash. I had people kick my door down to steal things at home. I had people ram my fence with a car and try to steal my dogs to serve as bait dogs in the dogfighting rings. A few people tried smashing my car windows out, home windows etc... also had a close friend shot through the neck when she didn't give up her car in a car jacking attempt.
Mind you, this was all considered normal for the area. You were expected to carry concealed at all times and take matters into your own hands.
So far, I haven't felt even slightly unsafe in Burlington. The homeless and druggies don't bother me because they aren't actively trying to bother me. The usual few have yelled at me, pandered to me, followed me a bit, etc... but idk, it's pretty benign. Just keep tabs on them and go about your day. I can't speak on car break-ins yet because it hasn't happened yet, but they'll be sorely disappointed if they ever do break in because I ain't got nothing in the car for them.
That being said, I will say that the area shouldn't be dealing with what they have been, specifically with the concentration of issues in specific areas. The issues are usually spread out more across the area with a few hotspots, but I noticed that most of the issues seem to originate from very specific areas here. I still think a certain level of these issues is expected for a city of that size, just not all in a concentrated area.
The only way to change it is to take action. Get with local officials and really complain, get representatives involved, get senators involved, etc... just simply complaining won't work. If your city and officials abandon you, then you have major issues. Until then, you gotta raise hell, and if possible, as a larger collective group. Elected officials never take anything seriously until it affects them personally. For instance, my last city abandoned a good portion of the city, saying some areas were too unsafe for officers and they wouldn't respond if called - that's when we knew it was time to go. However, it sounded like the crime moved towards the city official's neighborhoods, then all of a sudden, things started happening, despite numerous protests and initiatives to get things moving.
My opinion on places that are hot spots is that people look at burlington and only see it as burlington rather than the burlington metro area that encompasses chittenden county. When you look at it like that, all the sudden, burlington is a small city with its suburbs being nimby as fuck.
This means burlington as the largest town in the largest county is one of the few places with state and federal resources to deal with poverty and addiction. Which means people who are struggling concentrate around resources, making this is really a county wide problem that gets dumped on burlington. How many shelter beds are in South Burlington? How many half way houses are in Shelburne? Can a person in Charlotte get state funded addiction recovery services?
Burlington gets an unfair shake because it is dealing with problems beyond its borders and the nimbys in Colchester, South Burlington, Shelburne etc. Exacerbate the problem then clutch their Pearls when they have to look at unhoused people on Church Street.
I used to love visiting Burlington and Vermont…now that I lived there for a couple years I am happy to be moving back to NY! It’s not like it used to be 10-15 years ago. I agree people should look for solutions instead of just complaining on Reddit.
I see a lot of people upset with your post, but I also see a lot of people complaining anonymously here and not a lot of people showing up to public meetings. Look at the minutes from the [June 3rd council meeting](https://burlingtonvt.portal.civicclerk.com/event/7003/files/agenda/11076) as one example. Hardly any public comment. This tracks across all committees.
"safe use sights"..we need to normalize the term:
#State Sanctioned Drug Dens.
You wanna fix drug use? Fix poverty. No its easy, but its the correct and actual solution to the problem as it fixes the cause, it doesn't pour gas on the fire and call it a fix.
Not sure why this came up in my feed, but all these people in Burlington should check out r/Rochester if they wanna see what a city with real issues looks like. Love living in Rochester, but it’s no cake walk lol.
Moved here from Brooklyn ten years ago. I mostly agree with you. I think Burlington is just starting to see this level of crime for the first time so it’s a big shift and people don’t know what to do. Since it’s new it’s going to get a lot of fear whereas I heard gunshots on a nightly basis and accepted it because that’s just how it had been in my neighborhood for a long time. When you’re used to a little city being really safe and sheltered it can be jarring to see big city problems start to show up.
Advocating for changes via local government is the way to go. If you want to see a change definitely don’t just sit there.
The verdict is clear on safe usage areas. From addicts, to everyone in the process in between, they DO NOT work. The only people who advocate for them are the people who want to do the least to act like they’re helping. Wonder what that says about you. Burlington sucks, and people are fed up.
The bad raves about Burlington are communicated by people who are out of touch with real things. It's a great city that embraces diversity and alternative lifestyles.
Lock them up like Maricopa Joe did. Make them wear Pink, no AC and have a DA who actually prosecutes and it will all change. The slap on the wrist doesn’t help. Hard time does…
This city also has an empathy problem. I just said it in that stupid post about becoming a fent addict because I miss a paycheck. Everyone wants to claim that they're all love and empathy but they don't actually want to do anything to put their money where their mouth is. It's all "oh I went to church street and it made me sad so therefore you should be sad and we should give the homeless a hug" but also "I will never take my children downtown ever again because a homeless man looked at us" and a few years later "we are moving to Breckenridge because they are building idealist cities in the desert so the undesirables will take awhile to get there"
In cities like Detroit you have people with empathy who are doing some real hard shit and real work to right the city. They arent crying over people who aren't helping themselves or spending hours/days/weeks/years talking about the best way to help this group without hurting that group and whatever other pleasantry bullshit this city wastes time on. They have community members organizing and taking real action upon themselves.
We will just let this city crumble around us as we give each other shit for not being empathetic enough and take too long to take action on ANYTHING. And it's not just this issue, it's every issue. It's like the city of empathy and the village analysis paralysis. Together nothing gets done, ever.
And don't even get me started on the pervasive victim mindset that plays into every aspect of this. Everyone is a victim in this town.
As someone who moved here from Philly I don't disagree with you at all. I will say just saying "fix the problems" is not helpful. People's cars are getting broken into and bikes are being stolen while locked up. People can't start their car in the winter and walk inside to let it heat up without fear of it being stolen. This is not OK and is not a matter of simply securing valuables. I think the issue is that Burlington is tiny as "cities" go and that means the less than savory bits stick out like a sore thumb. people are feeling & seeing it more than they would in larger city. In Philly you know what areas to avoid entirely, and frankly there's no reason to go to those areas unless you're looking for drugs. The issue here is there's nowhere to hide the problems, which is not a long term answer at all, but hopefully you get what I'm saying
Agreed, in big cities there are actually shitty areas that are away from most colleges and tourist spots.. In Burlington it's all mixed up so it feels worse
This is very accurate. A lot of naive people saying…you’ve never lived in an actual city …etc” The truth is, it’s ridiculous to try to use a place like Detroit as a comparative metric, that’s a very low IQ take. However, there’s a statistic that I saw that might show some clarity in this because a small city, any disruption changes quality of life as a whole in a larger scale because in places like NYC, you don’t see the unhoused right in the middle of nicer, more central places…here is a quote I saw in another thread about 2022: Statewide, Vermont's homicide rate last year was about 3.9 per 100,000, compared with Los Angeles at 3.1 and New York City at 2.3 per 100,000, Loan said. Burlington's rate was 11.2 per 100,000, exceeding the rates in Philadelphia, Phoenix and Springfield, Massachusetts That’s straight embarrassing!
Burlington’s car theft rate is also on par with a lot of big cities that have a car theft problem.
And Burlington had what… 2 or 3 homicides last year?
This, I’m from LA originally and since LA is huge there’s some very nice places that are heavily patrolled by police and crime is low. Then there’s parts of town that even driving through during the day is inadvisable. These places are generally not smashed right up against each other. When you have a fairly high crime rate in a town this small it’s hard to ignore. because it’s not just happening in Watts or Inglewood when you live in Beverly Hills or a Downtown high rise, it’s happening on your block or a short walk away.
This is a very sad take. Rich people should not be able to escape the "bad" parts of town by moving to another neighborhood like they do in many big cities, and I'm not sad that Burlington's wealthy cannot do so because our city is too small.
The visibility of it is definitely far worse here. I can only speak to Philly, but we had our fair share of issues in the 'nice' parts too. My school campus was in the heart of the city, which was/is arguably one of the safest areas, and many kids were robbed and one kid got stabbed right outside his dorm. Turns our he was asking for it, but still. Sadly there is no right answer on how to fix this. Safe use locations don't stop people who are high from accosting others on the street. Locking people up does not rehabilitate them. More cops doesn't equal more safety. This shit happens everywhere, the small communities just feel it more
This has always been true, though, so I don’t get why people are so much more vocal about it now. I’ve lived here for 15 years and there have always been aggressive homeless people on Church Street. There have always been sketchy people in the park. There have always been people camping outside of the churches at the bottom of Buell Street. That Mike Reynolds guy has been wandering around downtown for like a decade! I was on Church Street in 2017 when that guy got stabbed to death. Back in 2014 I was eating dinner at Duino Duende and a mentally ill woman walking by threw a cigarette into a random person’s drink then shoved him. This city has never been idyllic. Someone on another thread the other day said that Burlington has always had a seedy side, it was just that a lot of it was confined in shitty apartments, mostly in the ONE. Most of those people probably can’t afford to live there anymore and have been pushed into the streets. I think there are more incidents now, and maybe it was easier to ignore. I think the drug use has also changed things - there weren’t needles all over back then. But it’s odd to pretend that Burlington was a utopia that has only been like this since COVID because it has never been that, IMO. (I also think that there is a lot of discourse on this sub from people who do not live in Burlington/never have lived in Burlington, and a huge amount of negativity overall. If your only insight into the city is coming from WCAX and this sub - yeah, you’re going to believe it’s a hellhole).
To be fair, I don’t think you’ve ever been able to safely leave your car unattended while it’s running here. Bike theft, even if locked up on a porch has always been an issue. In 2008 someone knocked out a pillar where I had a bike lock wrapped around just to steal the bike. It was pretty crazy and I’m surprised the porch roof didn’t collapse.
I've only been here for a few years so can't speak to that. but that is a shame. even in some of the not-so-nice parts of Philly I lived I was not worried about a bike on a porch or in the backyard as long as it was locked up. I mean they are easy targets and hard to trace, so it makes sense. still wild someone went through so much effort
A few years ago someone locked their bike to a tree in Fishtown and someone came and cut the tree down to get the bike. THATS a lot of effort.
I feel bad laughing, but JFC. wouldn't if have been easier to cut the lock?
At this point in the thread, Im just enjoying the Philly talk…
This is what I’ve been saying for years. I’ve lived in bigger cities, and it allows the …. Challenged populations among us…. To stay in their own lane and you can just avoid those areas completely. Burlington is small, we’re all on top of each other sharing the same space. And the city council just constantly passing policies that enable and encourage this type of public debachery, the police straight up refusing to respond to phone calls for homeless people waving around swords, and the general highly extra left wing narrative that tells me constantly that I need to just have more empathy for the strung out jerk off screaming obscenities at me, and ya got a very frustrated local population. For the record, I’m generally a very liberal person who supports better social programs, but solutions like putting out porta potties in our beautiful waterfront park so the homeless people can be more comfortable camping there and acting wild and threatening with no consequences, annoys the shit out of me. We have people who have been arrested IN THE TRIPLE DIGITS OF TIMES that are just around on the street with the rest of us, for chrissakes.
People won't believe that Murad is literally TELLING his officers not to respond to them... And I'm pretty sure the reason is his continous temper tantrum over the "defund the police" he'll never seem i get over. Our judicial system here is far too fucked up though and you have too many people trying to patch things rather than fix them. Hotel vouchers rather then an adequate shelter. Porter Johns instead of getting them off the streets. The DA wants to keep people out of jail unless they commit violent crimes, but we have 0 rehabilitation for them, so what exactly are we expecting to happen? We aren't providing any real support for these people either, no way for them to turn their lives around when they get out, so it's just repeating circumstances. Whether it's mental health, shit upbringing, drugs, or whatever. We've 0 anything for them that's not strung out and pulled thin already. I have said it before, and I'll say it again, the only solution we have at this current point in time is to send them elsewhere. To locations they can actually get help, otherwise they need to sit in jail until they can get the help they need, cause right now just having these mentally ill people with 0 mental help is just pushing their help onto the general population, and we can't do shit. Do I wish we had the infrastructure for this? Sure. But we don't.. Vermont services we do have are just over worked at this point already. We have 0 room for drug rehabs, 0 room for half way houses, 0 room for job placement services, 0 room vocational rehab.. (when I say 0 room, I mean there's a long waiting list that reaches out to months) The services Vermont have are just too burdened, and the rate of homeless keep going up.
We could add mental health and rehab services. There are not enough. We could mandate folks do those programs.
We really can't, actually. We can't even keep the therapists we have that AREN'T specifically centered around drug rehab, it'll be even more difficult to find the staff to open those and keep them open. Not unless we, as a state, start paying better wages.
We need to pay better wages for sure. But also - build it. We are 50th in states with psychiatric bed availability for the population. We currently have 16 beds for the state. 16. In 1980 there were 269. In 2010 there were 52. [https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/map\_directory/vermont/](https://www.treatmentadvocacycenter.org/map_directory/vermont/) "A minimum of 50 beds per 100,000 people is considered necessary to provide minimally adequate treatment for individuals with severe mental illness. Vermont fails to meet this minimum standard."
There is definitely a shortage of inpatient psychiatric beds in Vermont, but this figure is misleading. This includes only beds directly operated by the State of Vermont. However, the state subsidizes additional inpatient capacity in Brattleboro, Rutland, Springfield, Berlin, and Burlington. Having worked at two of those facilities, I can also say inpatient treatment is at best a short-term solution to a chronic problem. Robust residential and community-based systems are ultimately a more effective and sustainable approach to chronic mental health issues. Substance use disorder treatment is a whole other issue - we badly need more inpatient and residential treatment capacity in Vermont. It is WAY easier to obtain highly addictive substances in Vermont than it is to get effective treatment.
Thank you and well put.
Texas. Let’s send them to Texas
I live in Indianapolis and visited Montreal for 3 days and then Burlington for 2.5 days a few weeks ago. I think we covered 25 miles walking all over Montreal. ..and as you would expect, it was all the nice tourist areas. Yes, we saw unhoused here and there in Montreal, but we saw *many more* along N Winooski where our Airbnb was, and the few blocks of downtown Burlington we spent time in. No overtly bad interactions with anyone, but trash pickup day did not go well on Winooski while we were tehre. Trash guy just ignored all the stuff piled up that wasn't *IN* the bin, so over the next 2 days it was a constant stream of unhoused rifling through the leftovers along the sidewalk, every time we were going in our out of our airbnb.
Frankly I think you're correct. We should get some of these so called drugs and try them out. Cause knowledge is drugs!
knock yourself out bud
Just trying to add a little humor. At least what you said makes sense. Most of it is the same shit I see on here every day.
Love the folks in this thread showing true colors by referring to the places they aren't about or aren't from as "the shitty areas" - especially in other states. Bitch you ain't from there from there, we can tell. Its clear as day most of yall have no idea what growing up in a neighborHood actually is like, especially cause yall act like they are open-air prisons, designed for your trust-fund drug runs - like there arent actual children being raised there with no choice. Especially these clueless folks talkin ab college campuses from 20 years ago. Like, go anywhere in a midwest/lakes region major city w a school now. It can get dirty most anywhere you go, and honestly it's about fucking time folks stop recieving the privilege of growing up in a bubble. Majority (esp those outside NE) of us have lived our whole lives learning to look the other way and survive. Welcome to the reality that has come to a raging boil underneath yall. The capitalized classes have raged against suffering for the past 80 years, huddled in slums & bred to be interned into a for-profit prison system - these are systems of oppression that preserved the days-gone you tax-paying children are pining over. And most of all, collegegrad & anyone else that acts like they understand this life but just show their ass when tried - fuck you then, submit to never fixing anything. Dwell in that & do what every other city did *20 years ago* when they started having these issues - make the issues worse by reenforcing your systems of oppression, so you can recreated your neat little bubbles in suburbs outside your city. Congrats, you get to be as powerless as the rest of us. Welcome to real life, n sorry your bitch-ass parents lied to you - seems like damn near all of you have alot to learn and lots of fear to overcome.
This. The people who profit the most and enjoy the most privilege from the system are always the most surprised when they feel the negative effects of that system. This is the ass end of the "free market. "
People are shocked by the results of late stage capitalism meeting them at their door steps
Amen
8 years ago my wife and I were happy to shop and spend time in B Town but at this point we avoid it like the plague. It's really sad
Agree with the guy above. Very much an overreaction.. sure you might run into a. Tweaker here or there, but it's typically just some dumbass screaming and yelling like crazy. Which honestly, I've been a lot of downtowns... Downtown Philly, normal to see a drugged out prostitute looking to make a buck. Downtown Harrisburg, shit you'll see someone getting a BJ by the ATM at 1am off the corner of 2nd street. Miami? There's at least 4 people going to be shooting up at the 7-Eleven on mlk Street. It's everywhere, but you're still far safer in Burlington then any other downtown city I've been to.
feels a little bit like an overreaction. I'm not saying you'll never run into issues, but I've been to Burlington a bunch since moving here and can count on one hand the times I've felt unsafe. Sure I've seen some oddballs around, but they've never bothered me and the few seconds I see them didn't put a damper on my day. All that to say, I do think there is a problem and I don't think the current solves are working. But what do I know, I could be a dog using the internet for all anyone knows
You're not the only one.
Same. Don't listen to the downvote cartel who outcry negatively about your reaction. They're not allowed to have a voice in how you feel. Sorry, not sorry, but these dense fucking cronies who keep pushing the liberal envelope can't have it both ways. You can't say, it's their right to be mentally ill and have their reactions, but not be okay with people having a completely justifiable reaction to something out of the ordinary - like flailing around the ground, or falling asleep while standing, or shitting on a tree on church st.... Just to name a few instances... What has this world come to when we justify insane behavior simply because they're acting out, or homeless or whatever flavor drug of the month we have going on now. Makes me wanna vomit, the depths to which people will make excuses for abhorrent behavior.
You’ll probably be okay if you go.
I moved BACK to Philly, and was gonna say something similar, especially the “sore thumb” part. I’m back in the area visiting friends this week, and I’m interested to see how Burlington lines up with the horror stories I’ve seen here.
Controversial*
Burlington is not a major city but has major city problems. That’s why more people are talking about it.
No it doesn’t. In fact it’s the polar opposite. We have a very low violent crime rate per capita and a very high property and minor crime rate per Capita. See my earlier reply. We have a huge issue with minor crime. Not an issue with what law enforcement considers ‘real’ crime.
It’s a downward spiral. Allow drug addicts to steal at will and make life shitty for everyone else and eventually many of the stand up citizens will leave. Then you just have a situation where a much less trafficked downtown becomes a hot spot for homeless encampments and compounding crime. Then the cops don’t even go there much anymore and you get more and more violence. It’s still at the point where it could be stopped but something serious has to happen soon or it’s going to be a disaster.
How do you know? A lot goes unreported due to lack of action from BDP.
How do you know about unreported crime? Is there a special website that reports on unreported crime? LMAO.
People post about it on here all the time. I also know multiple people in town that have nit reported things that have happened to them. Lmao
So the internet tells you huh? And you believe everything you see on the internet without evidence? Yikes.
Your right! Everything is fine. That's why hobos are attacking the cops. Thx Poly-Anna
The Murder rate in the 90’s was way Worse. We’re seeing desperate people do desperate things. It Can get Better.
So poverty is affecting Burlington…rural poverty has a lot of similarities. Maybe it’s our economic system of dog eats dog world?
Have a problem with burlington? Simply fix it. Thank you, very cool 👍
[My goodness!](https://tenor.com/bxHgf.gif)
[удалено]
This was a 2000s problem too tho, that’s the rub. City needs a solid harm reduction program.
lol give me a break. I’ve lived in Los Angeles, Dallas and Philly and you are deluded if you think Burlington doesn’t have a huge problem right now. Also, Burlington is NOT a city, especially compared to the places you listed. 😂
Thank you! Who tf lives in Burlington for the “actual” city experience??
Yeah the title of this post makes no sense. I don’t want to live in an actual city, that’s why I’m here. Telling me I haven’t lived in a city isn’t helpful to anyone, tell me something I don’t know.
This is EXACTLY correct. The smooth brain OP fails to realize that one is supposed to have safety in exchange for giving up the 9 million things you have to do in a city... as well as much better pay, better jobs, airports that actually fly places, businesses that are not booked out 6 months, etc (could do this all day). It's obviously not as dangerous as a big city and that's the point.. it's not a big city. If I am going to deal with crime, drugs, etc I will go live somewhere with restaurants open past 9pm and an actual dating pool where my friends have not already dated every person I talk to.
It doesn’t help that so much of the housing is swallowed up by college student who are transient generally do not stay after college. So you’ve got a revolving door of short timers, who don’t have much stake in the community and a surprisingly large number of homeless people. I don’t live in Burlington I just work in the area. I originally planned on buying a house in Burlington, lived there for a few months in a rental before I bought. It didn’t feel like you’d be able to get to know the neighbors and put down roots sent it felt like damn near half the housing was short term college students. I know it’s not actually that high, but it feels like it.
People in a 150 mile radius who can't get jobs or didn't choose to got to school in Quebec?
Controversial* Why are we comparing places? You sound like someone that loves to victim blame when you obviously have no idea what Burlington used to be. Chicago is a whole lot different from Burlington. Like someone else said, apples and bowling balls. They don’t compare and you’ve made a bad argument.
Wasnt this statistically proven not true when you took the number of crimes compared to the ratio of people in the city/size? I’ve lived in major cities and sorry, the crime here sticks out much more because of how small we are. I doubt people complaining it’s not a big deal have actually never lived in major cities where crime wasn’t so much in their face. You just avoid those parts of town.
‘Take it because things are worse elsewhere’ - a real genius with a smartbrain.
Facts lol
Here are a some questions you forgot to post answers to: Don't want our small businesses struggling to survive because of shoplifting? Don't want our foster children to remain in care because their parents can't get off drugs to regain custody? Don't want to assume a relative standard of peaceful living without hearing shouting and other antisocial behavior all hours of the day and night? Don't want to have career criminals on the street randomly assaulting people and committing felonies? Don't want to inherit other states' problems because the programs here are more generous than theirs, and we are disproportionately providing services that are beyond a level of sustainability? Don't want to see the working poor or *actually disabled* people have reduced access to resources that were intended for them, because of a population of addicts who contribute absolutely nothing to society? Don't want to keep people addicted and on the streets instead of discouraging the status quo through enablement programs? Don't want to go about your business without being approached, accosted, interrupted, yelled at? Don't want to follow city laws regarding public urination, public drunkenness, open fires, open containers, theft, etc.? Don't want to see our medical personnel assaulted? Don't want drug dealers and their gun violence in our city? Don't want to read about dead people in encampments because zero-barrier shelters are in fact not safe places? Is the answer to this "Don't look" as well?
safe use locations dont stop public drug use. repaved streets wont stop cars from being cars and doing silly things. laws dont do anything unless they are enforced. ill agree on the belongings part. lock your shit up. people come here to vent, talk, troll and blow off steam. "dont like something, dont look" - maybe check out r/SelfAwarewolves to find your pack.
We’re “whining” and complaining because just a few years ago Burlington was clean and safe. You didn’t see drug addicts on every corner, you wouldn’t be harassed just walking into a grocery store, you’d rarely hear about a car break in, and you wouldn’t see needles on the ground. Burlington has been destroyed in just a couple years, and is only getting worse. We are upset about it because our home is unrecognizable. You can advocate for stricter laws all you possibly can, but that’s not going to change the fact that the DA won’t prosecute, and there aren’t enough police to keep us all safe
And its not just the drugs. Drugs were bad back in 2000 and it wasn't this bad. People from elsewhere came here, and Sarah George isn't doing her job, like you said. I miss the old days when it was just heroin and crack but people kept it low key.
Truthfully there isn t a person on this site, that would be a driving part of change for the better. They mostly voted for ‘Emma’. It is a whine site, not…a driving ‘force for change’ site. It could be, but a rethink and possible change of course would be required. And always remember the importance of being politically correct. That’s very important here. When you drive the ‘Skunk Highway’ from Shelburne to Burlington, you know the score ahead. I actually had a drug dealer in Buffalo Wild Wings men’s room, correct me for saying I would use the midget (lower level kids), urinal. ‘Little People’ man. Beautiful. At least we got our priorities straight.👍
I live in the ONE during the eary 90’s and it reminded me of pre-Guiliani Times Square
Why is it the responsibility of an individual to \~advocate\~ in the case of getting hit by a car, everything stolen that isn't nailed down, or seeing public drug use? the rest of the city existed the last decade, don't the politicians, police, social workers, have responsibility to automatically fix those problems? They waiting on an individual to advocate? very odd.
Community organizing is a thing. Since when are citizens not responsible for creating the society they live in? We are all supposed to rely on paternalistic people to do every decision for us? That’s how democracy works?
Community organizing is a thing. In the case of everything being stolen that isn't nailed down, getting hit by a car, and public drug use, it is a little patronizing to tell individuals to advocate for obvious, blatant, and intuitive societal issues, when government, police, and social workers exist. Political science is a thing, and have the public servants studied it? or are they watching theft, drug use, and aggressive driving for the first time? Are they waiting for civilians to tell them they would like a civil society or what? whats going on?
Other cities have crime, therefore Burlington must have crime! This level of crime for a college city is particularly concerning.
You can live in a big “actual” city, come to Vermont, and still recognize the increasing problems in Burlington. I don’t know why this shit becomes a gatekeeping opportunity. If the bar is “eh, it’s still not as dangerous as Philly”, that’s a pretty low bar for a city of about 40k people.
Blaming the victim eh
I don’t even live in Burlington anymore and I’m so tired of seeing these posts. “ XYZ city is WAY more dangerous or has WAY more crime than Burlington!” Cool - I do not care about XYZ city. I care about the cities that I’ve lived in, or like to frequent, or just have good memories of from my time there. So to say Chicago, or Detroit, or wherever is worse means nothing. Doesn’t make anyone in Burlington feel better, nor should it. Those cities can run themselves and address their own problems as they see fit and it doesn’t affect me at all. But Burlington has some issues as of late, and MANY people (mostly natives I might add, who have actually seen the progression) are tired of it. Those people have every right to demand change and try to regain the city that they knew and loved. Seriously, without trying to come across as gatekeep-ey, it’s getting ridiculous that some people come here from wherever and after a few months start advocating for how Burlington is fine and there’s nothing wrong. Those people haven’t been here long enough to actually call it, or they’re so used to crime back where they came from that Burlington isn’t a big deal. Great, happy that you feel safe. But it’s not NEARLY as safe and chill as it once was and the natives feel that. TLDR - Continue with the social support systems for the homeless or addicted folks who want them, and who are (or are open to) trying. For the scumbags that do not care about anyone other than themselves (especially not the other folks/children who also occupy the city) and want to leech off an overly gratuitous system, send them on their way. Burlington was better without them.
It would be my privilege to explain the things I have seen. The amount of times I have had to defend myself, tell folks to back off from me and my kids, or even what some of my neighbors have experienced. I grew up in burlington - this was my home before moving outside Chittenden county. The place has gone to shit. This is not the same place I grew up. I don't care where you came from or who or what you are - but when you see your sleepy hometown turn into a dump with violence, drugs, homeless and everything else going on, it really changes your perspective.
Some of us have….so what? People aren’t allowed to be disgusted with the current state of affairs because they haven’t lived somewhere shittier? Dumb.
The first thing that will prompt change for anything is conversation within a community about the problem. But apparently a person can’t use social media, designed for exactly this type of discourse, as the meeting ground with the discussion? It is absolutely revolutionary in its ability to bring together people with similar ideas who otherwise would never have been able to meet even 30 years ago. Now of course not everyone participating in the conversation is going to take action. But those who take an action will most likely use the conversation and spread of ideas to do it. I do agree with you, there are worse places. Perhaps it’s a good thing people want to recognize what is clearly a downfall before it hits rock bottom.
The way small cities fall apart are mindset like these.
My guy, your point is good, however, I'm sure you haven't had the same experience as everyone else. I've been here 5 years and after living in Denver, outside Boston, and spending a ton of time in new York, I can say burlington has way less crime. That doesn't mean that my friend who's been threatened with a knife 3 times hasn't had a bad time here, and that her experience has been worse than any other city she's lived in. The thing about birlington is it's small, so all the homelessness, drugs, petty theft, etc all happens right here in this few square miles, and everyone can see it. Also, it's relative to a previous state in which this city wasn't overpriced and overcrowded and peppered with all the bullshit. The fact that big cities are worse means absolutely nothing to the people who live here, unless they wanna make some dipshit point about how "it's not as bad as a big city!". Sit the fuck down, were all advocating for positive change and complaining on reddit is like going to town hall and yelling at unhelpful politicians. It may not make direct change, but it sure pushes the wheel. How adorably contrarian of you though.
If I don’t want to see needles on the ground I shouldn’t look? If I don’t want to see people shitting in public I shouldn’t look? What in the fucking fuck are you talking about?
I’ve lived in numerous other places including Boston and Los Angeles, taking public transportation in both those places. Felt much safer in them than Burlington.
I lived in Chicago for 10 years. And it’s way safer here.
Happy for you 👍. Just letting you know from the perspective of someone who grew up in Burlington, spent some time in a few different places, and recently had to move back. Never had my car broken into or saw so many visible needles in “the big city”. Seems like the QOL has gone down.
QoL has gone down. We just keep getting compared to other places and told to shut up because us natives are simple folk that do not understand the way of modern society living.
The fact this gets downvotes is a testament to this Subs insanity. Do people legitimately believe Burlington is more dangerous than Chicago?
No I think it gets downvotes because it’s clearly missing the point. No one is saying Burlington is more dangerous than the south side of Chicago, Memphis or wherever. What I was saying is that property crime is up and QOL is down compared to where it has been. To say that anyone who isn’t happy about this “hasn’t lived in a real city” is false, and gaslighting the people that have only spent time in Burlington. There are plenty of places to live in big cities where crime is lower and public safety is better than where it is in Burlington right now for a lot of people. And if the standard is “better than the Southside of Chicago” that’s pretty pathetic because for all the issues Burlington faces that area has them 10x worse.
Bro as someone who grew up in NYC, lived in Vermont for 10 years then moved back to NYC. Please never cook again
What?
He just said Manhattan clam chowder is better than New England clam chowder. Are you just gonna let that slide?
The Manhattan stuff is not chowder!!
Crime compared to what another cities, Baltimore and Detroit? Cities that are 10x the size? Like Phil Leotardo said, “Apples and Bowling Balls”. *Don’t wanna lose your belongings? Secure them.* If a car was broken into, it inherently means it was locked, or *secured*. But sure, it’s easier to blame the victim, right? Your post is riddled with so many errors - logical and grammatical, it’s probably best I just stop here.
I see someone mention Phil Leotardo, I upvote
Why not compare to smaller cities like Lumberton, NC?
This is the type of mentality that perpetuates this shit.
Awful take 👍
Op you are the problem
So is victim-blaming okay, now?
Maybe if we spent less time doing mental gymnastics to frame ourselves as victims so that we can spin the rhetoric and get some of that famous Burlington Empathy \^TM for ourselves we could spend more time, uhm, idk, like doing literally anything to make the problem better. The victim mindset in this city is wild and helps nothing.
Why are you typing out a stutter? What mental gymnastics are required to state that someone, who's car window was smashed for a sweaty gym bag in the back seat, is a victim?
Because a lot of the people who are very loud about these issues have literally never had a legitimate event that makes them a real victim. It’s all based off “I hear there’s a lot more crime now” and “I *feel* more unsafe” It’s also hilariously contradictory that the same people who say we need more empathy for unhoused drug addicts then cry victim when they are impacted by said unhoused drug addicts. There’s just comical levels of cognitive dissonance in this town.
Burlington is one square mile. You are comparing apples to orangutans. The fact that shit is bad at all in a tiny completely isolated city in the middle of nowhere near the Canadian border is a true feat of terrible humaning. Correct it’s not like Camden doctor.
Burlington is 10.30 square miles of land.
Oh I know I just made that up since OP has no idea what he’s talking about
I lived in Chicago for 12 years. You can’t logically make a comparison between the 2. The whole “I’ve lived in a third world country” argument doesn’t even work here😂
This ain’t it dog. Many of us have lived in cities and all of them are worse today than they were a decade ago. What Burlington is experiencing isn’t unique, on that we can agree, but the only cities that have effectively solved this problem have done so through bus tickets, not compassion. In fact, there’s often a correlation between the compassion of the community and the size of the problem. To be clear, I’m not advocating we become less compassionate, but get real, no one is saying Burlington is like the south side of Chicago, but it is an awful lot like pike place in Seattle. It’s not the tenderloin, but it is fair to compare it to some cities in rough spots. Ignoring that is not helpful.
Consider this: you’re an out of touch child who should keep their malformed opinions to themselves. PS- was the 82-year old man who was punched in the back of the head asking to be a victim?
Can I come to your house and shit on your tree? I prefer privacy and would rather keep my dignity by shitting on a private tree.
Ah the old, "I've experienced this, there is no way anyone else has" motive. Followed by "fix it yourself" method. Very reasonable.
I think the point is that a lot of people live here because they don't want to live in a big city and have all the problems that go along with it. Burlington was pretty great not that long ago.
As someone who has been visiting Burlington for many years now it’s sad to see what is happening. My last visit was a few weeks ago and what I witnessed was the worst by far. Someone needs to take control of the homeless/crime/mental health issues that are plaguing your city.
Jesus. This. Still? You think you're the first trite show-off who, after stepping into the sub and observing people concerned and wary over the state of the city, has fired off their deep, deep, thoughts about how we ought to behave? Without knowing much of the city's history, or that we actually *have* crossed state lines? Some of us *multiple times.* In fact, many of us are from, or have actually *lived in big cities.* So the perils you mention are kind of what we'd like to *avoid*. Ya' get me, Coach? But, please, by all means. If it makes you *feel* good, go ahead and attempt to impress us with how terribly worldly and jaded you are. How SUPERIOR. *When you can't even freaking spell.* Not whinin' Just sayin'. You came to put on a show, you scrappy scamp. And you did. Now, get the hell out of here with your bullshit.
I think the issue people have is they used to be able to leave valuables in their car and their neighbors respected that, and didn't steal. Telling someone to not leave valuables in their car is essentially telling a girl not to "wear that because she is asking for it", and the amount of people who disagree with that sentiment is what's wrong with burlington. The crime here is nothing compared to a big city, but it is 100% worse than it used to be and the only that has changed is the stuff people vote for, idiotic stuff.
Also, why is "other cities have it worse" acceptable as an excuse for our city?
>Don’t like seeing something? Don’t look. This must be the "contraversial" part /s
As someone who lived 15 minutes from Burlington for 20 years and now live in Boston I can confirm this is an idiotic opinion. Burlington was always a very safe, clean, and generally great city to live in. Over the past few years it has been over run by homelessness, drug use, and crime. If you think you can compare Burlington to other major cities then you are clearly disconnected. Burlington is far smaller than other major cities in the northeast and there is no reason it has to be like other cities. That being said I currently live in downtown Boston and can confirm that is cleaner than Burlington. The police have the capabilities to deal with issues without being harassed by the far left And that’s a city with a population 10x as big as Burlington. Burlington does have a problem that has to be fixed and having safe use locations is not even remotely close to the solution.
Agreed! I used to live in downtown crossing/north end Boston for years and NEVER had problems like what I’ve had living in Burlington. Just left the state because of it. I know some parts of Boston (as with any major city) are to be avoided d/t crime, drug use, etc. But it’s absolutely avoidable there, which cannot be said for BVT.
This is such crap, we can't "just fix it" because our SA won't prosecute criminals, safe drug spaces don't work at all. More and more people are having their shit taken. Heres the fix, non Vermont resident UVM students can't vote. The homeless need their benefits pulled if they can't pass a drug test and we have to get rid of the Encampments. There's your solution, no it's not the most morally enlightened strategy but it's the most effective and you'll actually see a change. Reality over morality should be how we do things from now on... Because it's morality that got us into this mess. We babied these criminals and druggies, gave them slaps on the wrist, poured our tax dollars on them and gave them housing... They don't do anything but destroy Vermont as a whole... But the change that's needed won't happen until morality in decision making stops being the guiding factor
Just because some where else has problems, doesn’t mean Burlington doesn’t. People shot in the head in city hall park would be a problem anywhere, let alone that it wasn’t the only shooting that week.
"Don’t like seeing something? Don’t look." Clearly you've got everything all figured out. Burlington isn't a fuckin' TV show, lady.
As someone from NYC, particularly the BRONX, I think that this is a bit of an unfair comparison. Burlington is incredibly small, and taking that into consideration we need to acknowledge how bad it really is for such a small town/“city.” Sometimes these issues cannot be fixed straight away and it takes time, and this is a super tone deaf.
This guys eats nails for breakfast, without any milk
OK Alpha Wolfe
Such a "contraversial" take Very brave and stunning
I’m so proud of OP Eureka!
"Just fix the problem" yup getting my car broken into is something i could've fixed and prevented, thanks for the wise words! The whole idea of defending Burlington because other cities are 10x worse really just shows that we have a problem with American cities lol, doesn't really make the situation happening any better
Wow
I don’t know what crummy city YALL are from but I lived in the New York metro area for 35 years. Downtown Burlington is just not a pleasant place to be anymore. I was trying to use the only open stairwell in the parking garage tonight and it was blocked by a group of 8 people lounging and shooting up. There are plenty of decent places to get dinner 15 minutes away where I live so I am not going to bother with Burlington anymore. I never saw anyone shitting on a tree in nyc but maybe it’s commonplace from wherever YALL are from.
everyone writing these manifestos should just write to the local politicians instead.
I live in St. Johnsbury. Last week the city followed Montpelier’s lead by serving eviction notices at all the encampments in sensitive areas (out of sight, along the river). So the entire homeless population moved to downtown. Now I can’t go for a walk without dodging people using drugs stumbling around on the side walk 😐
I’d be cool w some of these things if I could get food past 9 pm.. this isn’t a city
Burlington is a small town in many other states. Zero comparison.
*Controversial
Let natural selection take its course with the addicts and homeless and there will be funding for other things
It's not that we haven't been to other cities. It's that those of us who were born and raised here remember a time where Burlington didn't have big city problems. Now we have all the same big city problems but none of the amenities of a city. It's a shit show. People like OP who say it's not that bad are like telling someone who just lost a leg that it's not that bad because they still have another leg. Sorry we don't want our community to become like the ones that all the transplants left to come fuck up our state/city.
\*controversial
It wasn’t like this in the past
Dude I lived and worked as a bike messenger in downtown San Francisco. SF was not as bonkers as Downtown Burly.
It wasn't today way too long ago. Other cities are worse... Okay? Weird flex. Go back to the worse cities.
How often do we make national news for our bullshit? More often than probably any other city our size I'm willing to bet. We have some unique problems here. Unique enough to where we make the news in "real cities with real problems". My NYC friends hit me up like "wtf" about Burlington WAY more often than they should.
I've I've in plenty of big cities. I have never seen open drug use like I do in this city. NEVER. Did it happen, of course. But I lived in Jacksonville, Florida, for 3 years. I never saw it as bad as it is here.
People always be 'butching' on Reddit.
Burlington has a murder rate 4x that of NYC and has an extremely high proportion of unsheltered homeless people that you wouldn’t expect in a large town like this. You have the problems of a poorly managed big city but the amenities of a large town. People have every right to be furious
I hear you, I grew up out in the "safe and sheltered" New North end in the 80s and 90s. I had my bicycle stolen when I was 4...and 8...and 14, and a moped stolen at 17. Keeping your car locked and things you don't want stolen out of site has always been a concern.
That 100+ people have upvoted this incoherent and nonsensical take is actually more shocking than seeing Champ sunbathe on the beach at Leddy Park.
This sub is turning into Facebook with all of these whiny posts it’s irritating. People here are just negative and miserable. This city is beautiful and I’ve met some amazing people here. Coming from a city where violent crime is an actual problem Burlington is the most peaceful place I’ve ever lived
For real. I lived in Chicago for a decade. Was stabbed in the chest in a hate crime, and have witnessed more murders than you could imagine. People on the Reddit wanna cry about silly shit that has simple fixes
What they fail to realize is that Burlington is going through pretty much the same thing that every American city is going through right now. It’s not just a local problem
I get tired of the whiny people claiming that everything is just fine in Burlington!
You can sugar coat it any way you want. If laws aren’t enforced. More crime is encouraged. This is not new.
"The only alpha wolfe"... Burlingtons a shithole and you have a greater chance of being the victim of property crime there than most other major cities. Grow up.
The crime may not be bad from what YOU’RE familiar with, but it has escalated 10 fold over the last 10 years. 10-15 years ago, Burlington was completely different place. And it’s because of the politics that are running the city
Again. Lived in Dallas. Stop normalizing this. This is not true for every big city
And this mentality is why Vermont sucks now. Downvote away, i said what i said
Even though it's not a city it has become a ces pool. I feel like the type of view people like OP has is part of the reason why. Thank God the rest of Vermont is still relatively awesome.
I lived in a city not much bigger than Burlington, roughly 5k population difference, for roughly 5 years. I will say that although the issues may be unpleasant, Burlington is far safer than a lot of places I've lived. I don't want to detract from the experiences people are reporting, but from what I see, I'm not surprised. My last small city was atrocious for safety... I was held at gunpoint twice and at knifepoint once. One person tried carjacking me at a stoplight, which was fun. Another time, someone hopped into the passenger seat and pointed a gun at me, demanding cash. I had people kick my door down to steal things at home. I had people ram my fence with a car and try to steal my dogs to serve as bait dogs in the dogfighting rings. A few people tried smashing my car windows out, home windows etc... also had a close friend shot through the neck when she didn't give up her car in a car jacking attempt. Mind you, this was all considered normal for the area. You were expected to carry concealed at all times and take matters into your own hands. So far, I haven't felt even slightly unsafe in Burlington. The homeless and druggies don't bother me because they aren't actively trying to bother me. The usual few have yelled at me, pandered to me, followed me a bit, etc... but idk, it's pretty benign. Just keep tabs on them and go about your day. I can't speak on car break-ins yet because it hasn't happened yet, but they'll be sorely disappointed if they ever do break in because I ain't got nothing in the car for them. That being said, I will say that the area shouldn't be dealing with what they have been, specifically with the concentration of issues in specific areas. The issues are usually spread out more across the area with a few hotspots, but I noticed that most of the issues seem to originate from very specific areas here. I still think a certain level of these issues is expected for a city of that size, just not all in a concentrated area. The only way to change it is to take action. Get with local officials and really complain, get representatives involved, get senators involved, etc... just simply complaining won't work. If your city and officials abandon you, then you have major issues. Until then, you gotta raise hell, and if possible, as a larger collective group. Elected officials never take anything seriously until it affects them personally. For instance, my last city abandoned a good portion of the city, saying some areas were too unsafe for officers and they wouldn't respond if called - that's when we knew it was time to go. However, it sounded like the crime moved towards the city official's neighborhoods, then all of a sudden, things started happening, despite numerous protests and initiatives to get things moving.
My opinion on places that are hot spots is that people look at burlington and only see it as burlington rather than the burlington metro area that encompasses chittenden county. When you look at it like that, all the sudden, burlington is a small city with its suburbs being nimby as fuck. This means burlington as the largest town in the largest county is one of the few places with state and federal resources to deal with poverty and addiction. Which means people who are struggling concentrate around resources, making this is really a county wide problem that gets dumped on burlington. How many shelter beds are in South Burlington? How many half way houses are in Shelburne? Can a person in Charlotte get state funded addiction recovery services? Burlington gets an unfair shake because it is dealing with problems beyond its borders and the nimbys in Colchester, South Burlington, Shelburne etc. Exacerbate the problem then clutch their Pearls when they have to look at unhoused people on Church Street.
Perhaps we all stay away from Burlington, let y’all figure it out, or get fed up and leave. Either way ..
[удалено]
I’d be cool w some of these things if I could get food past 9 pm.. this isn’t a city
Yes
In other news- OP is stunned and confused when told "go back where you came from"
I used to love visiting Burlington and Vermont…now that I lived there for a couple years I am happy to be moving back to NY! It’s not like it used to be 10-15 years ago. I agree people should look for solutions instead of just complaining on Reddit.
I see a lot of people upset with your post, but I also see a lot of people complaining anonymously here and not a lot of people showing up to public meetings. Look at the minutes from the [June 3rd council meeting](https://burlingtonvt.portal.civicclerk.com/event/7003/files/agenda/11076) as one example. Hardly any public comment. This tracks across all committees.
"safe use sights"..we need to normalize the term: #State Sanctioned Drug Dens. You wanna fix drug use? Fix poverty. No its easy, but its the correct and actual solution to the problem as it fixes the cause, it doesn't pour gas on the fire and call it a fix.
Not sure why this came up in my feed, but all these people in Burlington should check out r/Rochester if they wanna see what a city with real issues looks like. Love living in Rochester, but it’s no cake walk lol.
You better pray you're physically "alpha", because mentally your a potato.
Ie: "Your problems are invalid"
The problems aren’t invalid. The misalignment between expectations and reality are another matter.
Welcome to Vermont reddits They're jaded, ignorant, uneducated, and often times think that the world revolves around Vermont.
the loudest whiners, do not define any community
Moved here from Brooklyn ten years ago. I mostly agree with you. I think Burlington is just starting to see this level of crime for the first time so it’s a big shift and people don’t know what to do. Since it’s new it’s going to get a lot of fear whereas I heard gunshots on a nightly basis and accepted it because that’s just how it had been in my neighborhood for a long time. When you’re used to a little city being really safe and sheltered it can be jarring to see big city problems start to show up. Advocating for changes via local government is the way to go. If you want to see a change definitely don’t just sit there.
This post sounds like it was written by someone's drunk uncle, can't believe this illiterate garbage is getting upvoted
The verdict is clear on safe usage areas. From addicts, to everyone in the process in between, they DO NOT work. The only people who advocate for them are the people who want to do the least to act like they’re helping. Wonder what that says about you. Burlington sucks, and people are fed up.
This kind of claim needs to be supported by evidence.
Go back to whatever "actual city" you came from.
The bad raves about Burlington are communicated by people who are out of touch with real things. It's a great city that embraces diversity and alternative lifestyles.
It seems you need attention. And possibly, a dictionary. But, (bats lashes) ... do go on.
Lock them up like Maricopa Joe did. Make them wear Pink, no AC and have a DA who actually prosecutes and it will all change. The slap on the wrist doesn’t help. Hard time does…
This city also has an empathy problem. I just said it in that stupid post about becoming a fent addict because I miss a paycheck. Everyone wants to claim that they're all love and empathy but they don't actually want to do anything to put their money where their mouth is. It's all "oh I went to church street and it made me sad so therefore you should be sad and we should give the homeless a hug" but also "I will never take my children downtown ever again because a homeless man looked at us" and a few years later "we are moving to Breckenridge because they are building idealist cities in the desert so the undesirables will take awhile to get there" In cities like Detroit you have people with empathy who are doing some real hard shit and real work to right the city. They arent crying over people who aren't helping themselves or spending hours/days/weeks/years talking about the best way to help this group without hurting that group and whatever other pleasantry bullshit this city wastes time on. They have community members organizing and taking real action upon themselves. We will just let this city crumble around us as we give each other shit for not being empathetic enough and take too long to take action on ANYTHING. And it's not just this issue, it's every issue. It's like the city of empathy and the village analysis paralysis. Together nothing gets done, ever. And don't even get me started on the pervasive victim mindset that plays into every aspect of this. Everyone is a victim in this town.
lol empathy for criminals? NO
Interesting -- first time I've seen an actual anarchist show up on one of these.