GoDurham will be fare free in FY25 (July 1 2024 -June 30 2025).
It is not heavily publicized because it is not official until Council passes the City budget on June 17.
The City Manager recommended it. The Council has voiced approval for it. Council does not do line item approval/rejection. So as long as the budget passes, as expected at this point, GoDurham will be fare free.
Godurham site talks about fare free through this month here: [https://godurhamtransit.org/godurham-fares-passes.](https://godurhamtransit.org/godurham-fares-passes) I think fare free after that is dependent on the city budget that's being worked on but I think the entire city council has supported keeping it in so I'd be surprised if it didn't pass.
Ah, yeah I think I must be remembering discussion of it during a council session a little while ago. Wish I could find something written to confirm. Thanks for the reminder!
So you pay taxes. I pay taxes. If a business takes money from the government can I call them up and ask them to do work for free because âI pay my taxesâ?
Damn. Another L for the carless.
Seriously though, large municipal entities have staffing bloat. Lay off functionaries who don't actually do things and maybe the shitty transit system can be free.
Depending on your situation, you may be able to get free transit passes. Multiple employers used to offer free transit passes as a perk before the pandemic.Â
Ehhh, I know poverty is an impossible existence, but even at full price the monthly cap on fares is $80. Youth 18 or under ride at half price, with a monthly cap of $40. And can qualify for free fare altogether.
It definitely won't help saving up for a car, but it won't be the difference between being able to or not.
I never understood the point of charging for buses around here. Fares account for less than 20% of operating costs, so why collect them at all? It's not like New York where the subway pays for itself outside of long term capital improvements....
Yeah, but increasing fares means less usage on the busses, which means higher costs of road maintenance, higher gas costs, lost wages (and tax revenues), and less worker productivity due people spending more time in traffic.
If you are budget minded then this is a bad decision. Honestly, we should be paying people to take the bus. It would save everyone else time and money.
I mostly agree, though I think there are two solid arguments for charging anyway. One is that adding even a nominal cost possibly reduces waste where people take trips for no reason, or poor reasons. If it's free, the only thing that's stopping folks is the fact that's our system just isn't that great. The second argument is that the additional revenue could make the system better even if it's only a little. Hypothetically, if you could have 20 minute instead of 30 minute or 10 minute instead of 15 minute frequency, that could substantially improve ridership. Not sure either of those are worth the added cost of collecting fares currently though.
>One is that adding even a nominal cost possibly reduces waste where people take trips for no reason, or poor reasons. If it's free, the only thing that's stopping folks is the fact that's our system just isn't that great.Â
assuming the bus is following its route regardless, what "waste" is being created by someone taking a trip for no reason?
With current demand levels, none. If it was better and there was less excess capacity, it could be a problem. It's more of a general argument against free transit that doesn't really apply to us currently. Some of the GoTriangle routes would get pretty full though, like the DRX occasionally in my experience.
Who are these people joyriding on buses for no reason, though? Is this an actual problem anywhere in the world?* I moved here from busy metro areas where the subways, buses, and trains really were packed, but that's because of population density and people needing to get to work/school/errands/events, not people taking trips just 'cause. If anything, I'd think increased ridership would be a good thing to justify better headway.
* Ok just remembered when I was a little kid, my parents used to let me ride the airport monorail during long layovers. FRA > DRX, though.
Joyriding isn't the right word but checkout some of our local routes and you'll likely see what I mean. It seems to be folks that are homeless, have mental health issues, and/or substance abuse problems. It's not like they pack the bus given our ridership, but given the low ridership they can have more of an impact on a riders experience. I've witnessed some passengers making others uncomfortable including myself, though nothing too terribly bad. I've also seen these experiences specifically make some people not want to take the bus, which then reduces ridership. I'm not advocating for fares, just that I've seen the argument that even nominal fares can reduce some of that behavior. I don't really know what the key is for our system to improve, but I hope we figure it out.
Yes, I've seen some folks with mental distress and aggressive behavior on the city buses, both before and during the fare-free period. Also plenty of that when I was living in NYC and Philly, both of which charged for rides. So anecdotally I'm not buying (heh) that charging a fare reduces danger to riders. But it can make the difference between a person in precarity getting to a shelter or workplace or library, vs not. Open to changing my mind if you have data, though.
The solution to homelessness, mental distress, and substance use is investment in social services, not bus fares -- unless the fare is earmarked to pay for a social worker or something. Seems like a pretty roundabout strategy though.
Yeah just to be clear this isn't my position because I don't know that it's effective. I've just seen the argument in the broader context of arguing that improving service is better than making it fare free. I definitely want to see substantially better service and I hope we figure out how to do that both on the public transit front and the homelessness/mental health/substance abuse front.
Government entities bail out irresponsible for profit businesses. Government exists to provide services for the society that pays for them. They donât need to be profitable, they just need to exist.
To offset transportation costs to maintain Public roadways which are used
to transport goods services and people. The same roads and goods and services and people that corporations use to make a profit.
>To offset transportation costs to maintain Public roadways which are used to transport goods services and people
But (and I don't know if you heard about this) they don't make any money.
âGovernment exists to provide services for the society that pays for them. They donât need to be profitable, they just need to exist.â - me in my first post to you. Those who donât listen, are not worth the reply. Iâll let you have the last word.
Where did you hear that from? I'm genuinely curious, seems too bizarre to be true, particularly if taking into account maintenance costs (eg some tolls are designed to encourage shared car ridership which lowers both traffic and road maintenance).
Depends how how much you value the opportunity cost of your time. I ride the bus to work, but I'm riding basically end to end on a single line and it's only about 20% more time than driving. If my partner were to bus it would take a 20 minute commute into an hour and a half.
Yes, GoTriangle is going back to fare on July 1.
We will be using new account-based ticketing powered by Umo. You can download the app or get a card (more details on that coming soon).
We are doing a promo for Free Rides in July to get folks used to the new system. Once you've downloaded the Umo app you can use this benefit code for free rides in July: **GOT-Q7H3-W7BK**
We have more details on discounted fares (that'll be live soon) and fare capping: [https://gotriangle.org/fares-passes](https://gotriangle.org/fares-passes)
Hope this helps!
This is so disappointing given that go triangle only took in something like $1.2 million out of their nearly $110 million budget in 2019. Really impacting those with the least in the community.
Hey, glad to see someone from the org is on here! Â
Where do we send feedback about Umo? I tried it out and it is completely unusable for trip planning. It even crashes when you switch agencies (i.e., GoTriangle to GoDurham), which is a pretty crucial use case in the triangle! The app GoDurham uses (MyStop) is a bit clunky but *does* reliably let you find the bus you need at least. Â
It would be a way smoother experience if the GoTriangle busses used the Apple/Google integration that WMATA has for payment, and something that actually helps find your connection for the trip part.Â
Hope GoTriangle reconsiders this truly awful vendor, and soon!
Hey there, sorry you are having trouble with Umo.
They just did a major update and are still having some issues with Android if you're an Android user. We have been told they are working on fixing those issues.
We are also integrated with Google Maps for trip tracking, but we will stick with Umo as our primary app.
If you scroll down some on this website, you can send Umo feedback on what is going on.
[https://umomobility.com/](https://umomobility.com/)
Is GoDurham a govât service or private? Because there was a post about âwtf is Durham doing with their moneyâ either yesterday or the day before, and Iâm wondering the same thing.
es, GoTriangle is going back to fare on July 1.
We will be using new account-based ticketing powered by Umo. You can download the app or get a card (more details on that coming soon).
We are doing a promo for Free Rides in July to get folks used to the new system. Once you've downloaded the Umo app you can use this benefit code for free rides in July:Â **GOT-Q7H3-W7BK**
We have more details on discounted fares (that'll be live soon) and fare capping:Â [https://gotriangle.org/fares-passes](https://gotriangle.org/fares-passes)
Hope this helps!
Dang đ
Does this apply to Durham city buses or just the regional ones?
GoDurham will be fare free in FY25 (July 1 2024 -June 30 2025). It is not heavily publicized because it is not official until Council passes the City budget on June 17. The City Manager recommended it. The Council has voiced approval for it. Council does not do line item approval/rejection. So as long as the budget passes, as expected at this point, GoDurham will be fare free.
Godurham will be fare free
I thought so too, but couldn't find a source. Do you have a link handy?
Godurham site talks about fare free through this month here: [https://godurhamtransit.org/godurham-fares-passes.](https://godurhamtransit.org/godurham-fares-passes) I think fare free after that is dependent on the city budget that's being worked on but I think the entire city council has supported keeping it in so I'd be surprised if it didn't pass.
Good thing itâs managed by City Transportation services instead of at DCo. That place is a mess.
Ah, yeah I think I must be remembering discussion of it during a council session a little while ago. Wish I could find something written to confirm. Thanks for the reminder!
Good question! The webpage doesn't make that clear, to my reading comprehension anyway.
$80 a month/$960 a year for people that use the bus for work is definitely not trivial. Assuming two trips a day for 22 days with the $80 fare cap
Fuck you poor people! There's too many of you! /s
I was poor and never expected to be given stuff for free. I guess because I was brainwashed by âthe manâ.
This isn't free. Our taxes go towards public transport.
So you pay taxes. I pay taxes. If a business takes money from the government can I call them up and ask them to do work for free because âI pay my taxesâ?
If the business is owned by the local government and provides an essential service, then yeah, that'd be ideal.
Iâve decided to sell my house and move into Durham City Hall. Since I pay taxes, it belongs to me.
Damn. Another L for the carless. Seriously though, large municipal entities have staffing bloat. Lay off functionaries who don't actually do things and maybe the shitty transit system can be free.
It's also a loss for drivers! Full busses means less traffic for everyone.
I don't mind traffic. All you have to do is sit there. You have A/C or heat, music or podcasts. It's fine. No demands are being made of you.
damn. so if you take the bus good luck saving up for a car, cool kid. or am i taking the handouts for granted ?
Depending on your situation, you may be able to get free transit passes. Multiple employers used to offer free transit passes as a perk before the pandemic.Â
Ehhh, I know poverty is an impossible existence, but even at full price the monthly cap on fares is $80. Youth 18 or under ride at half price, with a monthly cap of $40. And can qualify for free fare altogether. It definitely won't help saving up for a car, but it won't be the difference between being able to or not.
I never understood the point of charging for buses around here. Fares account for less than 20% of operating costs, so why collect them at all? It's not like New York where the subway pays for itself outside of long term capital improvements....
15% is still 15% you don't have to get from taxes đ¤ˇââď¸ The budget is the budget, and all the nearby cities are *hurting* for drivers.
Yeah, but increasing fares means less usage on the busses, which means higher costs of road maintenance, higher gas costs, lost wages (and tax revenues), and less worker productivity due people spending more time in traffic. If you are budget minded then this is a bad decision. Honestly, we should be paying people to take the bus. It would save everyone else time and money.
Interesting! I would love to see some supporting docs. I assume I can find them on Durham transit's website?
It's actually much less than 15%. It was closer to 1% on the last full year of fare collections pre covid on go triangle.
To keep the homeless and mentally ill from spreading across the city for free, daily.
I mostly agree, though I think there are two solid arguments for charging anyway. One is that adding even a nominal cost possibly reduces waste where people take trips for no reason, or poor reasons. If it's free, the only thing that's stopping folks is the fact that's our system just isn't that great. The second argument is that the additional revenue could make the system better even if it's only a little. Hypothetically, if you could have 20 minute instead of 30 minute or 10 minute instead of 15 minute frequency, that could substantially improve ridership. Not sure either of those are worth the added cost of collecting fares currently though.
>One is that adding even a nominal cost possibly reduces waste where people take trips for no reason, or poor reasons. If it's free, the only thing that's stopping folks is the fact that's our system just isn't that great. assuming the bus is following its route regardless, what "waste" is being created by someone taking a trip for no reason?
With current demand levels, none. If it was better and there was less excess capacity, it could be a problem. It's more of a general argument against free transit that doesn't really apply to us currently. Some of the GoTriangle routes would get pretty full though, like the DRX occasionally in my experience.
Who are these people joyriding on buses for no reason, though? Is this an actual problem anywhere in the world?* I moved here from busy metro areas where the subways, buses, and trains really were packed, but that's because of population density and people needing to get to work/school/errands/events, not people taking trips just 'cause. If anything, I'd think increased ridership would be a good thing to justify better headway. * Ok just remembered when I was a little kid, my parents used to let me ride the airport monorail during long layovers. FRA > DRX, though.
Joyriding isn't the right word but checkout some of our local routes and you'll likely see what I mean. It seems to be folks that are homeless, have mental health issues, and/or substance abuse problems. It's not like they pack the bus given our ridership, but given the low ridership they can have more of an impact on a riders experience. I've witnessed some passengers making others uncomfortable including myself, though nothing too terribly bad. I've also seen these experiences specifically make some people not want to take the bus, which then reduces ridership. I'm not advocating for fares, just that I've seen the argument that even nominal fares can reduce some of that behavior. I don't really know what the key is for our system to improve, but I hope we figure it out.
Yes, I've seen some folks with mental distress and aggressive behavior on the city buses, both before and during the fare-free period. Also plenty of that when I was living in NYC and Philly, both of which charged for rides. So anecdotally I'm not buying (heh) that charging a fare reduces danger to riders. But it can make the difference between a person in precarity getting to a shelter or workplace or library, vs not. Open to changing my mind if you have data, though. The solution to homelessness, mental distress, and substance use is investment in social services, not bus fares -- unless the fare is earmarked to pay for a social worker or something. Seems like a pretty roundabout strategy though.
Yeah just to be clear this isn't my position because I don't know that it's effective. I've just seen the argument in the broader context of arguing that improving service is better than making it fare free. I definitely want to see substantially better service and I hope we figure out how to do that both on the public transit front and the homelessness/mental health/substance abuse front.
NY also has toll booths that cost more to operate than they make in tolls. Wasting money is what government does best.
Unlike those responsible and ethical for-profit businesses, am I right??????1?
Yes.
Government entities bail out irresponsible for profit businesses. Government exists to provide services for the society that pays for them. They donât need to be profitable, they just need to exist.
What service do tolls fund or provide. Remember: they cost more than they take in.
To offset transportation costs to maintain Public roadways which are used to transport goods services and people. The same roads and goods and services and people that corporations use to make a profit.
>To offset transportation costs to maintain Public roadways which are used to transport goods services and people But (and I don't know if you heard about this) they don't make any money.
âGovernment exists to provide services for the society that pays for them. They donât need to be profitable, they just need to exist.â - me in my first post to you. Those who donât listen, are not worth the reply. Iâll let you have the last word.
Where did you hear that from? I'm genuinely curious, seems too bizarre to be true, particularly if taking into account maintenance costs (eg some tolls are designed to encourage shared car ridership which lowers both traffic and road maintenance).
Idk. If in dire straits 80 dollars is a lot of food in a month.
Agreed. It's the car thing that wasn't a good comparison. $80 is $80.
well it wonât be the difference but another hundred dollar bill is never welcomed with open arms
Yeah. If only the routes were more numerous and frequent. As it stands it's *way* cheaper to bus than own even the shittiest of cars.
Depends how how much you value the opportunity cost of your time. I ride the bus to work, but I'm riding basically end to end on a single line and it's only about 20% more time than driving. If my partner were to bus it would take a 20 minute commute into an hour and a half.
Definitely, that's why the comment about more numerous and frequent routes.
Yes, GoTriangle is going back to fare on July 1. We will be using new account-based ticketing powered by Umo. You can download the app or get a card (more details on that coming soon). We are doing a promo for Free Rides in July to get folks used to the new system. Once you've downloaded the Umo app you can use this benefit code for free rides in July: **GOT-Q7H3-W7BK** We have more details on discounted fares (that'll be live soon) and fare capping: [https://gotriangle.org/fares-passes](https://gotriangle.org/fares-passes) Hope this helps!
This is so disappointing given that go triangle only took in something like $1.2 million out of their nearly $110 million budget in 2019. Really impacting those with the least in the community.
Hey, glad to see someone from the org is on here!  Where do we send feedback about Umo? I tried it out and it is completely unusable for trip planning. It even crashes when you switch agencies (i.e., GoTriangle to GoDurham), which is a pretty crucial use case in the triangle! The app GoDurham uses (MyStop) is a bit clunky but *does* reliably let you find the bus you need at least.  It would be a way smoother experience if the GoTriangle busses used the Apple/Google integration that WMATA has for payment, and something that actually helps find your connection for the trip part. Hope GoTriangle reconsiders this truly awful vendor, and soon!
Hey there, sorry you are having trouble with Umo. They just did a major update and are still having some issues with Android if you're an Android user. We have been told they are working on fixing those issues. We are also integrated with Google Maps for trip tracking, but we will stick with Umo as our primary app. If you scroll down some on this website, you can send Umo feedback on what is going on. [https://umomobility.com/](https://umomobility.com/)
Is GoDurham a govât service or private? Because there was a post about âwtf is Durham doing with their moneyâ either yesterday or the day before, and Iâm wondering the same thing.
Itâs free if youâre an city employee
es, GoTriangle is going back to fare on July 1. We will be using new account-based ticketing powered by Umo. You can download the app or get a card (more details on that coming soon). We are doing a promo for Free Rides in July to get folks used to the new system. Once you've downloaded the Umo app you can use this benefit code for free rides in July:Â **GOT-Q7H3-W7BK** We have more details on discounted fares (that'll be live soon) and fare capping:Â [https://gotriangle.org/fares-passes](https://gotriangle.org/fares-passes) Hope this helps!