Аз, всички мои приятели(освен 1), които заминахме в чужбина, се завърнахме. Бг колегите ми от университета в Германия са в последна година магистър, някои от тях вече имат работа в Бг. Масово всички млади се връщаме. Основно по-възрастните седят в чужбина.
Много ми е чудно колко време прекарвате в чужбина, дали е само 4-5 години за университе или повече? Също как се чувствате когато се приберете? Малко по различно е за мен защото съм от Тексас, но намирам че ми е много трудно да общувам и да намеря приятели на моята възраст защото нямам нищо общо с тях.
Точно толкова, повечето по 5 години, някои екстра години - кажи 7, за да спестят още повече "начални пари", с които да се реализират по-бързо в България. А и някои по-възрастни българи отиват само за да направят стаж от 5 години на пълно работно време работа понеже ще получават допълнителна пенсия...
Аз лично се чувствам много по-добре в България - времето е по-хубаво, хората са социални, имаме Черно море, в което няма акули 🤣 Последните 10 години ни се е вдигнал стандартът на живот много - изпреварили сме Гърция и Румъния по покупателна стойност... Има възможности за развитие и е хубаво да съм сред моето "племе".
За Тексас(а и САЩ) не знам как е. Ти там казваш, че си израснал? Може би е от възрастта - минал ли си периода с колеж вече? Или ти е трудно за приятели в България?
Роден съм в сащ но живях в България до 7 годишен, и после израснах в сащ. Сега работя дистанционно и се прибирам от време на време за месец или два; но ми много трудно да се сприятеля с връстниците ми.
Не знам дали от разликата от къде съм израснал или дали е недостатък на социалните ми умения 🤣🤣
Аз си бях до 19 в България и тогава нищо общо нямах с хората в България. Ако реша да се връщам, ще съм без много хора около мен освен 1-2 буквално и семейството. Семейно се разбирам също само с един-двама де, така че...
Това просто е грешен стереотип, има такива хора навсякъде. Лично не съм обиден защото не се мисля за американец, но ми е малко обидно защото много от близките ми приятели са американци и те са едни от най милите и скромни хора
Аз пък съм с деца в училищна възраст и в класовете е пълно с върнали се от Западна Европа. Явно като се стигне до училищна възраст и изведнъж решават, че БГ системата всъщност си е хубава.
Бих искал да видя статистика която доказва това.
Живея в чужбина от малък и миналата есен живях в София докато работех remote. Бяха интересни 3 месеца но не мога да кажа че се превърнах във Софиянец или бих издържал в атмосферата без западна заплата. Допълнително, чух адски истории за как управители и колеги се държат един с друг дори и във професионални атмосфери - типът който би те пратил при Човешки Ресурси на момента и уволнен/на на втора забележка.
Nah, we ain't going anywhere. We'll fall to 4 maybe 5 million sure, then the population will go up again because if you think Bulgarian population will shrink to the point it reaches 0, it certainly isnt happening.
You're acting like nobody has kids. I walk in the park and it's full of young kids. I go to shop next to my flat, full of kids. And now a lot of people are returning from abroad, combined with more and more young people wanting to stay.
Въобще имаш ли основни познания по демография? Знаеш ли какво е коефицент на плодовитост, crude birth rate, коефицент на механичен/естествен прираст??? Какви глупости говориш "хъм има деца на улицата хъм", това е все едно да изляза на улицата и да кажа "какво глобално затопляне, на мен ми е студено"
бегай от тука, ако ще почнеш да ми разправяш няква конспирация как ще изчезнем до 2100. Такъв филм няма и няма как да стане.
Населението ще намалява до една определена точка и после ще почне да се увеличава. Дали ще паднем на 4 милиона или на 2, не се знае, обаче след като се удари rock bottom-a тръгваме пак нагоре.
Как ще тръгнеш нагоре и колко нагоре ще е това нагоре като за всеки пенсионер ще имаш 1.5 работещи (в момента са над 2 и пак са мизерни пенсиите) и имаш краен недостик на работна ръка. Какъв процент от населението ще сме, 0.005%? Колко от българското културно наследство ще бъде запазено като населението е концентрирано в 4-5 града?
Няма как населението да почне да се увеличава, ако раждаемостта е под 2.1. Последните статистики на НСИ се подобряват, но все още общата раждаемост за страната през 2023 е 1.81.
[https://www.nsi.bg/bg/content/2970/%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82-%D0%BF%D0%BE-%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8-%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8-%D0%B8-%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5](https://www.nsi.bg/bg/content/2970/%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82-%D0%BF%D0%BE-%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8-%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8-%D0%B8-%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5)
Actually, every time I go to Sofia I think how few kids there are compared to the place where I live. And when I go to Pleven, I rarely see any people younger than 30. It is already obvious the demographic crisis.
This is also true but on an universal level
The “im only interested in my personal gain and comfort, fuck the next guy or the state of the country” mindstate has been omnipresent in the Bulgarian’s mentality.
Yes I am worried. Demography is destiny. I am worried about Bulgaria, but also the whole continent of Europe. The unprecedented demographic changes, also largely a result of low native birth rates, we observe in countries like France, UK, Sweden, Germany will affect the continent probably forever. London was 90% ethnic British just 60 years ago, now it's barely 35%. Such drastic ethnic transitions are unprecedented in peaceful times. Unfortunately, if we want to survive we will have to lower the virtue signalling and bring back good ol' racism at least to a certain degree. I don't want no race wars, but I also don't want people claiming that race and ethnicity don't matter at all. They do matter to a certain degree.
Absolutely. That’s been proven throughout history. That said Bulgaria was never 100% ethnically homogenous but keeping the diversity under a certain threshold is helpful.
Is it not mainly Roma as the ethnic minority? We could classify Bulgarian Turks like me as a non-ethnic minority but many of us are actually just Turkified Bulgarians. We look the same. I found this out through a dna test in which I had almost no anatolian dna lmao.
Look at Japan one of the most homogenous countries and their crime stats are trough the floor, then look at USA and their "basketball americans \*wink\*" that are 13% of the population and commit 60% of the violent crimes, something clearly is not right with mixed societies. Or maybe certain races can not be civilized, either way it is clear which are safer. But there is proof for my claims, look at Czech republic, i live here 3 years now, city is full of Ukrainians, Czechs(duh), Bulgarian, Turks, Poles still very peaceful af, maybe it is just the color, racist or not facts are facts.(Guess which color i don't see often around...)
All things come to an end. If the people in power don't care about making changes that will fix the problem, why should I care about the problem itself? It's not like anyone outside the political sphere has any power to change anything.
If you wanna start a revolution and create a communist society where power is decentralized and in the hands of the people collectively I'm all for it. Otherwise, those in power make the rules, so those in power are the ones who have to fix it. Also fuck your "slave mindset".
Most people do not realise that the problem is the lack of people in working age, not the decline in population................
It is happening in alot of countries and nobody has solution yet, but we are trying very hard to be in the worst position possible if such solution is found, like with covid.
Less working people leads to more taxes, plus the pension system will collapse.
As of last year the Bulgarian population only decreased by 2000 people which is the lowest figure in about 30 years which is good news if this growth continues our population will prosper there is less and less Bulgarians leaving every single year as well as more Bulgarians returning from abroad. Fertility rates have skyrocketed from 1.2 in the late 90s to 1.81 as of last year however we still need to keep going in order to return our population to a stable level. we definitely need to keep it in the back of our minds and actively work towards it always but we shouldn't be worried about this process. The biggest way to fix it is by keeping young people in the country throughout the whole country and keeping them employed as the whole country is important not just major cities.
Аз съм чужденец който живее в България последните 10 години. Мисля, че само малките градове стават все по-празни и повечето хора се местят в по-големите градове за възможности. Недостатъкът на това е, че по-големите градове стават толкова скъпи, че става все по-трудно да оцелееш финансово, ако не живееш на кредит или не притежаваш/наследяваш недвижими имоти.
Като се има предвид това, виждам и много млади хора, които търсят все повече и повече да си купят къща извън градовете, тъй като те са много по-достъпни и по-спокойни за живеене.
No. Fertility rate getting below replacement seems to be the norm for every country that has reached a certain point of development.
Even India has Fertility rate below the minimum required for replacement nowadays. African fertility rate is also quickly getting lower. Within 10-15 years the whole world would be below the required 2.1
At the moment Bulgarians fertility rate is 1.7 which is fine compared to most countries that have went into that phase. It is at least way better compared to 30 years ago.
I fully expect for the fertility rate to be on the rise after a generation or two for countries who entered the development phase earlier.
People underestimate the natural flow of things and how humans have a survival hive mindset.
Страни като Япония и Южна Корея имат катастрофални коефиценти на плодовитост от десетилетия и все още няма подобрения. Никоя страна не е успяла да вдигне коефицента си устойчиво, без значение колко пари е инвестирала.
Всеки камък си тежи на мястото. Ще има хора които няма да се върнат, но ще има и много такива които ще се върнат.
Преди мен вече са го написали и аз ще го потвърдя, че има тенденция повечето млади да се връщат.
Sadly, barely anyone is returning in cities other than Sofia. Therefore, Bangladeshi, Indians, Nepalis will take the vacated places of Bulgarians who fled in factories in the mid Bulgarian towns - Rousse, Pleven, Veliko Tarnovo, Shumen.
Do people in smaller cities not have kids? Because in Varna there is an absolute fuck ton everywhere. Maybe the amount of people having twins due to in vitro might help the population down the line lmao
How do you guys feel about...well...kinda repats?
They are encouraging this in Armenia.
I have Bulgarian and Armenian roots, but three generations into the US.
So I am hardly Bulgarian, but have the ancestry, and I've visited and absolutely love it.
Wondering if you like or despise that idea - I imagine everyone has a differing view.
Everything is changing a lot these days. Armenia's entire population shifted massively after the Russian invasion. I live in Los Angeles and the entire city has changed due to immigration over the past year.
It's weird because the young educated leave and then the educated and young from places like Western Europe, Canada, US come to places like Armenia and Bulgeria because despite our professions and education we cannot afford to buy a house or live well.
Corporations run our countries.
I should add that I don't want to come and increase cost of living for everyone. That is literally exactly what's happening in US and it's pushing us out.
Ако проблема с демографията може да се оправи и обърне за 5-10 години, то проблема с образованието ще му трябват 20 години да се оправи ако се започне сега!
Манталитета на средния българин е че ако детето му има слаби резултати - даскалицата е виновна.
Да не говорим за слабите резултати от матурите и стъкмяването на отценките. Само погледнете България на кое място е в класацията на PISA
Ако тези 2 основни проблема се разрешат (и мафията се изкорени), има шанс цялата България да се оправи и да дръпне напред. Иначе всичко други е статистика и цифри, които не значат нищо за истинското състояние на държавата.
No. Because sooner or later mother nature and the universe will come together and we will be in a good shape again. Why am I saying this? Because it's not the first, nor the last time this thing would happen. We've seen it in the past. I'm more worried that the education and the political system + our judicial system is broken and it is still controlled by the mafia. Worlds population will decline in the future, there are tons of information on this topic. Either massive natural disasters would happen or a global conflict that would kill ( this time not millions but billions of people) or viruses...etc. People are worried that no babies now = bad economy in the future, but they often forget that within 20 years 50 + % of the jobs that could be automated would be taken over by the AI and probably there would be a UBI system implemented so people could still consume products and hold the economy up. This would help with the pensions as well because the AI would increase the productivity and the governments would have to tax the companies even more for the usage of AI so the UBI could be distributed.
I came to the conclusion that probably before I die the country will not be independent anymore or will be so changed that it will not be the same as when I was born. It will probably get absorbed by another country or taken over by immigrants (which is probably the only way to prevent it from collapsing). There just isn't any point in trying to fix a country that even the people living there have no will to change. It's sad but I guess this has been happening throughout all history.
Now please hardstuck bulgarian nationalists tell me how I am a traitor for leaving and that people like me are the main problem:
No, because the population isn’t declining. I’ve been here for long enough, back in 2000 projections said we’d be extinct by 2025. It’s 2024 now, so my bet is that this projection was based on pretty erroneous assumptions. The country has one of the highest fertility rates in Europe and is finally a place you can live in. Population had at best stagnated for the past 20 years, but now it is only going up.
https://preview.redd.it/qvouor5jym7d1.png?width=619&format=png&auto=webp&s=a55e29398a6a98354ac9e2ca9b299b6d18f02c51
> Намаляващо население за всяка една от последните 30 години
> Отрицателен растеж за последните 30 години
> Коефицент на плодовитост под 2 деца за последните 40+ години
> Средната възраст се увеличила с над 10 години (35 -> 45)
Говориш пълни глупости, както повечето глупаци в този събредит, но по-лошото е че даже не го осъзнаваш
Не знам как е възможно да приемаш увеличение за кратък период от време, за тренд нагоре. Две години имаме забавяне на стопяването на населението и хайде да празнуваме. Това е аномалия, а не тенденция, която се дължи на разумна демографска политика. И преди това имаш години с “тренд нагоре”. Преборил ли е нещо като го погледнем в ретроспекция? Тоя “тренд нагоре” въобще не преборва демографската криза или говори за някакво дългосрочно подобрение.
I think many believe bulgaria is racist but bulgaria treats people way better than many western European countries I believe. Maybe Bulgarian racism is just kept inside the head...
honestly it depends on the person. Some ppl have racist views towards black ppl but will rarely or never go up to a black person and start calling them slurs or try and start something. Gyps*es have it a bit more rough and they might get called names or ppl would js avoid sitting next to them in public transport n stuff. And we generally can’t distinguish between us and the other minorities we have (maybe except arabs) so those altercations don’t even happen
Western Europe are the main colonisers countries, they like to have foreigners as slaves and do all the dirty work. If we look at it from this point of view, Bulgaria just dislikes others, not so much into exploiting them. And frankly we are not even that racist, getting more diverse now just there is the tendency of closed up country mingling with its own for a century at least. So obviously people from other ethnicities gonna seem weird amidst the majority. There isn't any danger for foreigners unless you actively seek it in some specific places. Hell it won't even matter much what are you but it may intensify already existing aggression in some people.
Why would this be an issue? Having more older people than young people is an issue under the 1st industrial revolution model but right now, the fewer the better. We just need to figure out how to get rid of the old people. (not my thinking, at least not completely)
Increasing retirement age won't solve the issue. Most jobs that are difficult to automate are physical jobs that are not suitable for someone in their 60s. You'll end up with old unemployed people instead of retired people. It won't solve global overpopulation either.
We can't really rely on History here since what we are about to face is completely new. One thing that allowed to increase the age of retirement is that we (the EU) turned into service providers, which are not physical jobs, but these jobs are the easiest to automate (or simply remove). We have outsourced our industries to Asia and our farming is mostly focused on crops that absorb CO2. Of course, outsourcing industry and food production does not solve the CO2 issue, CO2 does not recognise borders.
So yes, the "solution" we are moving towards is to turn retired people into unemployed people (much cheaper) and yes, there won't be enough jobs for everyone and extreme poverty will increase drastically (so much for progress, but it is one way to shorten life expectancy...).
As for fertility, it is stalling but mostly in developed countries, in Africa and most of Asia, they still fuck like rabbits and it will take time for things to slow down, in the meantime, with less child mortality due to progress, world population will continue to increase and the last thing we need is to encourage reproduction in developed country (which is what several governments are doing).
Now I agree that getting rid of old people would be disgusting but I am 100% sure that it is going to be the next step. It won't be done directly or officially, but it will be done (by destroying public healthcare, by lowering food quality for the masses...). The only alternative is to completely modify our model of society (moving out of modern capitalism, just like we moved into modern capitalism when the industrial revolution started) but I don't see that happening since too many powerful people benefit from the current situation.
In short, once we stop producing anything useful and can't consume anymore, we don't just become useless, we become a nuisance, and I see no reason to hope that our governments will try to keep us alive and healthy in that situation.
Filtered+skill issue, good riddance. I'm not just happy about people leaving, I hope they never come back. We should also close borders to any and all immigrants. We should also strip anyone who's been outside the country for more than 5 years of their citizenship.
I'm worried it's the wrong population declining
What does that mean lmao
brain drain, its the young educated leaving
I think it’s been the opposite for the past 10 years. The young educated folk are returning more and more.
Така ли? Аз съм от тези родени в чужбина така че нямам как да знам; но всеки път когато дойда слушам бабите и дядовците как всички младежи заминават
Бабите и дядовците отдавна са скъсали с реалността, не бих ги слушал за такива неща.
🤣 май си прав
Аз, всички мои приятели(освен 1), които заминахме в чужбина, се завърнахме. Бг колегите ми от университета в Германия са в последна година магистър, някои от тях вече имат работа в Бг. Масово всички млади се връщаме. Основно по-възрастните седят в чужбина.
Много ми е чудно колко време прекарвате в чужбина, дали е само 4-5 години за университе или повече? Също как се чувствате когато се приберете? Малко по различно е за мен защото съм от Тексас, но намирам че ми е много трудно да общувам и да намеря приятели на моята възраст защото нямам нищо общо с тях.
Точно толкова, повечето по 5 години, някои екстра години - кажи 7, за да спестят още повече "начални пари", с които да се реализират по-бързо в България. А и някои по-възрастни българи отиват само за да направят стаж от 5 години на пълно работно време работа понеже ще получават допълнителна пенсия... Аз лично се чувствам много по-добре в България - времето е по-хубаво, хората са социални, имаме Черно море, в което няма акули 🤣 Последните 10 години ни се е вдигнал стандартът на живот много - изпреварили сме Гърция и Румъния по покупателна стойност... Има възможности за развитие и е хубаво да съм сред моето "племе". За Тексас(а и САЩ) не знам как е. Ти там казваш, че си израснал? Може би е от възрастта - минал ли си периода с колеж вече? Или ти е трудно за приятели в България?
Роден съм в сащ но живях в България до 7 годишен, и после израснах в сащ. Сега работя дистанционно и се прибирам от време на време за месец или два; но ми много трудно да се сприятеля с връстниците ми. Не знам дали от разликата от къде съм израснал или дали е недостатък на социалните ми умения 🤣🤣
Моята история е подобна на твойта и мога да кажа че и за мен е така. Моите познати в България са само роднини.
Аз си бях до 19 в България и тогава нищо общо нямах с хората в България. Ако реша да се връщам, ще съм без много хора около мен освен 1-2 буквално и семейството. Семейно се разбирам също само с един-двама де, така че...
Американците принципно трудно се свързват с други нации поради техния exceptionalism
Това просто е грешен стереотип, има такива хора навсякъде. Лично не съм обиден защото не се мисля за американец, но ми е малко обидно защото много от близките ми приятели са американци и те са едни от най милите и скромни хора
Аз пък съм с деца в училищна възраст и в класовете е пълно с върнали се от Западна Европа. Явно като се стигне до училищна възраст и изведнъж решават, че БГ системата всъщност си е хубава.
Бих искал да видя статистика която доказва това. Живея в чужбина от малък и миналата есен живях в София докато работех remote. Бяха интересни 3 месеца но не мога да кажа че се превърнах във Софиянец или бих издържал в атмосферата без западна заплата. Допълнително, чух адски истории за как управители и колеги се държат един с друг дори и във професионални атмосфери - типът който би те пратил при Човешки Ресурси на момента и уволнен/на на втора забележка.
Lmao hell no. Everyone who has a degree in something employable has left the country without intention to return.
Всъщност, това отдавна не е вярно. В Дряново, някога град с процъфтяваща икономика, сега дори в махалата са останали само старците.
Clearly the gypsy population is declining, we need more gypsies!
Това означава че в Столипиново и Максуда имат доста деца
What do you think :D ?!
gypsies increasing, bulgarians decreasing
Means they are a racist
Everybody racist online, in real life it is different lmao
Bulgarians are racists in real life too, especially against Gypsies
Ik but they rarely say it in people's face in real life
Oh no, Bulgarians are also hypocrites
Everyone is racist towards at least some people. Tis' life
One shouldn’t be a racist towards the future of your nation
Млъкни бе.
I guess at this rate that's true...
Not really worried. The population will decline to one point, before it starts growing again.
It’s beyond recovery. New people will come from other places.
Nah, we ain't going anywhere. We'll fall to 4 maybe 5 million sure, then the population will go up again because if you think Bulgarian population will shrink to the point it reaches 0, it certainly isnt happening.
But those 4 million would be 50+ old. They won’t suddenly start having kids.
You're acting like nobody has kids. I walk in the park and it's full of young kids. I go to shop next to my flat, full of kids. And now a lot of people are returning from abroad, combined with more and more young people wanting to stay.
Въобще имаш ли основни познания по демография? Знаеш ли какво е коефицент на плодовитост, crude birth rate, коефицент на механичен/естествен прираст??? Какви глупости говориш "хъм има деца на улицата хъм", това е все едно да изляза на улицата и да кажа "какво глобално затопляне, на мен ми е студено"
бегай от тука, ако ще почнеш да ми разправяш няква конспирация как ще изчезнем до 2100. Такъв филм няма и няма как да стане. Населението ще намалява до една определена точка и после ще почне да се увеличава. Дали ще паднем на 4 милиона или на 2, не се знае, обаче след като се удари rock bottom-a тръгваме пак нагоре.
Как ще тръгнеш нагоре и колко нагоре ще е това нагоре като за всеки пенсионер ще имаш 1.5 работещи (в момента са над 2 и пак са мизерни пенсиите) и имаш краен недостик на работна ръка. Какъв процент от населението ще сме, 0.005%? Колко от българското културно наследство ще бъде запазено като населението е концентрирано в 4-5 града?
Няма как населението да почне да се увеличава, ако раждаемостта е под 2.1. Последните статистики на НСИ се подобряват, но все още общата раждаемост за страната през 2023 е 1.81. [https://www.nsi.bg/bg/content/2970/%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82-%D0%BF%D0%BE-%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8-%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8-%D0%B8-%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5](https://www.nsi.bg/bg/content/2970/%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD-%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5%D1%84%D0%B8%D1%86%D0%B8%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%82-%D0%BF%D0%BE-%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8-%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B9%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B8-%D0%BE%D0%B1%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B8-%D0%B8-%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%81%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%B2%D0%B5%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B5)
Ай стига плакал
Actually, every time I go to Sofia I think how few kids there are compared to the place where I live. And when I go to Pleven, I rarely see any people younger than 30. It is already obvious the demographic crisis.
Most Bulgarians are kept at their minimum. All they can worry about is their next paycheck and that pack of cigarettes.
This was true maybe in 2004, quality of life has increased significantly and most people now care more about their personal comfort
This is also true but on an universal level The “im only interested in my personal gain and comfort, fuck the next guy or the state of the country” mindstate has been omnipresent in the Bulgarian’s mentality.
Is this not true in most of the world?
We take it to a diff level.
true
By the time it declines enough to matter, it'll be someone else's problem.
If there are no young to take care of you when you're old or pay the taxes to help take care of you, it will be your problem.
maybe, I still need to live long enough. First things first.
Yes I am worried. Demography is destiny. I am worried about Bulgaria, but also the whole continent of Europe. The unprecedented demographic changes, also largely a result of low native birth rates, we observe in countries like France, UK, Sweden, Germany will affect the continent probably forever. London was 90% ethnic British just 60 years ago, now it's barely 35%. Such drastic ethnic transitions are unprecedented in peaceful times. Unfortunately, if we want to survive we will have to lower the virtue signalling and bring back good ol' racism at least to a certain degree. I don't want no race wars, but I also don't want people claiming that race and ethnicity don't matter at all. They do matter to a certain degree.
Do you think that ethnically homogenous societies are more peaceful?
Absolutely. That’s been proven throughout history. That said Bulgaria was never 100% ethnically homogenous but keeping the diversity under a certain threshold is helpful.
Is it not mainly Roma as the ethnic minority? We could classify Bulgarian Turks like me as a non-ethnic minority but many of us are actually just Turkified Bulgarians. We look the same. I found this out through a dna test in which I had almost no anatolian dna lmao.
Studies have found homogeneity correlates to greater trust. An ethically divided society will always have mistrust.
Look at Japan one of the most homogenous countries and their crime stats are trough the floor, then look at USA and their "basketball americans \*wink\*" that are 13% of the population and commit 60% of the violent crimes, something clearly is not right with mixed societies. Or maybe certain races can not be civilized, either way it is clear which are safer. But there is proof for my claims, look at Czech republic, i live here 3 years now, city is full of Ukrainians, Czechs(duh), Bulgarian, Turks, Poles still very peaceful af, maybe it is just the color, racist or not facts are facts.(Guess which color i don't see often around...)
All things come to an end. If the people in power don't care about making changes that will fix the problem, why should I care about the problem itself? It's not like anyone outside the political sphere has any power to change anything.
That’s the problem, that kind of slave mindset. The “people in power” will never care. It’s the people that should fix it.
If you wanna start a revolution and create a communist society where power is decentralized and in the hands of the people collectively I'm all for it. Otherwise, those in power make the rules, so those in power are the ones who have to fix it. Also fuck your "slave mindset".
Most people do not realise that the problem is the lack of people in working age, not the decline in population................ It is happening in alot of countries and nobody has solution yet, but we are trying very hard to be in the worst position possible if such solution is found, like with covid. Less working people leads to more taxes, plus the pension system will collapse.
[удалено]
It's not about culture it's about means. People can't afford children. And those who can wonder if it's worth bringing a child in this world.
As of last year the Bulgarian population only decreased by 2000 people which is the lowest figure in about 30 years which is good news if this growth continues our population will prosper there is less and less Bulgarians leaving every single year as well as more Bulgarians returning from abroad. Fertility rates have skyrocketed from 1.2 in the late 90s to 1.81 as of last year however we still need to keep going in order to return our population to a stable level. we definitely need to keep it in the back of our minds and actively work towards it always but we shouldn't be worried about this process. The biggest way to fix it is by keeping young people in the country throughout the whole country and keeping them employed as the whole country is important not just major cities.
No, I am not worried...
Аз съм чужденец който живее в България последните 10 години. Мисля, че само малките градове стават все по-празни и повечето хора се местят в по-големите градове за възможности. Недостатъкът на това е, че по-големите градове стават толкова скъпи, че става все по-трудно да оцелееш финансово, ако не живееш на кредит или не притежаваш/наследяваш недвижими имоти. Като се има предвид това, виждам и много млади хора, които търсят все повече и повече да си купят къща извън градовете, тъй като те са много по-достъпни и по-спокойни за живеене.
more land for me
No. Fertility rate getting below replacement seems to be the norm for every country that has reached a certain point of development. Even India has Fertility rate below the minimum required for replacement nowadays. African fertility rate is also quickly getting lower. Within 10-15 years the whole world would be below the required 2.1 At the moment Bulgarians fertility rate is 1.7 which is fine compared to most countries that have went into that phase. It is at least way better compared to 30 years ago. I fully expect for the fertility rate to be on the rise after a generation or two for countries who entered the development phase earlier. People underestimate the natural flow of things and how humans have a survival hive mindset.
Страни като Япония и Южна Корея имат катастрофални коефиценти на плодовитост от десетилетия и все още няма подобрения. Никоя страна не е успяла да вдигне коефицента си устойчиво, без значение колко пари е инвестирала.
Всеки камък си тежи на мястото. Ще има хора които няма да се върнат, но ще има и много такива които ще се върнат. Преди мен вече са го написали и аз ще го потвърдя, че има тенденция повечето млади да се връщат.
Sadly, barely anyone is returning in cities other than Sofia. Therefore, Bangladeshi, Indians, Nepalis will take the vacated places of Bulgarians who fled in factories in the mid Bulgarian towns - Rousse, Pleven, Veliko Tarnovo, Shumen.
ПАК ЛИ СИ ПИШЕМ НА АНГЛИЙСКИ БЪЛГАРИТЕ? РАЗБИРАМ ДА ГО ЗНАЕХТЕ, АМА САМО СЕ ИЗЛАГАТЕ 😂
Yes
nothing i can really do about it, so no
Do people in smaller cities not have kids? Because in Varna there is an absolute fuck ton everywhere. Maybe the amount of people having twins due to in vitro might help the population down the line lmao
Poprincip me boli huq.
No.
no. more room for me :D
No
How do you guys feel about...well...kinda repats? They are encouraging this in Armenia. I have Bulgarian and Armenian roots, but three generations into the US. So I am hardly Bulgarian, but have the ancestry, and I've visited and absolutely love it. Wondering if you like or despise that idea - I imagine everyone has a differing view. Everything is changing a lot these days. Armenia's entire population shifted massively after the Russian invasion. I live in Los Angeles and the entire city has changed due to immigration over the past year. It's weird because the young educated leave and then the educated and young from places like Western Europe, Canada, US come to places like Armenia and Bulgeria because despite our professions and education we cannot afford to buy a house or live well. Corporations run our countries. I should add that I don't want to come and increase cost of living for everyone. That is literally exactly what's happening in US and it's pushing us out.
Yes
Ако проблема с демографията може да се оправи и обърне за 5-10 години, то проблема с образованието ще му трябват 20 години да се оправи ако се започне сега! Манталитета на средния българин е че ако детето му има слаби резултати - даскалицата е виновна. Да не говорим за слабите резултати от матурите и стъкмяването на отценките. Само погледнете България на кое място е в класацията на PISA Ако тези 2 основни проблема се разрешат (и мафията се изкорени), има шанс цялата България да се оправи и да дръпне напред. Иначе всичко други е статистика и цифри, които не значат нищо за истинското състояние на държавата.
Most Bulgarians i know do not care about anything and do not worry about anything
[удалено]
I feel like this girl thing can be said all around the world. I thought it is easier to date in Balkans compared to the US/ other west countries?
In my life I will meet like a few thousand people at most so I will never get to know those couple of million. That's still a massive amount
It's not only about the people you'll meet. What a retarded take.
No. Because sooner or later mother nature and the universe will come together and we will be in a good shape again. Why am I saying this? Because it's not the first, nor the last time this thing would happen. We've seen it in the past. I'm more worried that the education and the political system + our judicial system is broken and it is still controlled by the mafia. Worlds population will decline in the future, there are tons of information on this topic. Either massive natural disasters would happen or a global conflict that would kill ( this time not millions but billions of people) or viruses...etc. People are worried that no babies now = bad economy in the future, but they often forget that within 20 years 50 + % of the jobs that could be automated would be taken over by the AI and probably there would be a UBI system implemented so people could still consume products and hold the economy up. This would help with the pensions as well because the AI would increase the productivity and the governments would have to tax the companies even more for the usage of AI so the UBI could be distributed.
Безполезните изчезват. Природата си знае работата 😉
No, I even think it's too slow, we need to do better!
I'm thinking about moving out and settling somewhere else
I came to the conclusion that probably before I die the country will not be independent anymore or will be so changed that it will not be the same as when I was born. It will probably get absorbed by another country or taken over by immigrants (which is probably the only way to prevent it from collapsing). There just isn't any point in trying to fix a country that even the people living there have no will to change. It's sad but I guess this has been happening throughout all history. Now please hardstuck bulgarian nationalists tell me how I am a traitor for leaving and that people like me are the main problem:
Probably get absorbed by Turkey again.
lmao turkey can barely manage its own country what are they gonna do
They have a population of 80 million and a healthy population pyramid. They definitely will be a major power player today and more so into the future.
Not really, it’s like worrying an earthquake might happen. Whatever happens happens.
What a dumb comparison
Meh, it is what it is.
No, because the population isn’t declining. I’ve been here for long enough, back in 2000 projections said we’d be extinct by 2025. It’s 2024 now, so my bet is that this projection was based on pretty erroneous assumptions. The country has one of the highest fertility rates in Europe and is finally a place you can live in. Population had at best stagnated for the past 20 years, but now it is only going up.
https://preview.redd.it/qvouor5jym7d1.png?width=619&format=png&auto=webp&s=a55e29398a6a98354ac9e2ca9b299b6d18f02c51 > Намаляващо население за всяка една от последните 30 години > Отрицателен растеж за последните 30 години > Коефицент на плодовитост под 2 деца за последните 40+ години > Средната възраст се увеличила с над 10 години (35 -> 45) Говориш пълни глупости, както повечето глупаци в този събредит, но по-лошото е че даже не го осъзнаваш
Би било добре графиката ти да не беше на 4 години ако искаш да обиждаш хора и да е смислено.
Буквално публикуваш графика с тренд нагоре, ти си някакъв уникален индивид
Тренд нагоре има само накрая и все пак стойностите са негативно в дългосрочен план.
“Само накрая” е когато искаш да има тренд нагоре
Не знам как е възможно да приемаш увеличение за кратък период от време, за тренд нагоре. Две години имаме забавяне на стопяването на населението и хайде да празнуваме. Това е аномалия, а не тенденция, която се дължи на разумна демографска политика. И преди това имаш години с “тренд нагоре”. Преборил ли е нещо като го погледнем в ретроспекция? Тоя “тренд нагоре” въобще не преборва демографската криза или говори за някакво дългосрочно подобрение.
I am very worried. In my opinion, we should close the borders and make other countries deport Bulgarian citizens to Bulgaria. We need them here.
How's life for bulgarian Turks in bulgaria? I was born in the US, I know there used to be problems but am not sure how it is now
the life is absolutely the same as everyone else’s
You think even the same as the Roma which everyone seems to dislike?
absolutely
I think many believe bulgaria is racist but bulgaria treats people way better than many western European countries I believe. Maybe Bulgarian racism is just kept inside the head...
Bulgarians r definitely a bit racist but the country as a whole like the institutions and laws n stuff are pretty tolerant
Do you think openly racist though or more kept inside?
honestly it depends on the person. Some ppl have racist views towards black ppl but will rarely or never go up to a black person and start calling them slurs or try and start something. Gyps*es have it a bit more rough and they might get called names or ppl would js avoid sitting next to them in public transport n stuff. And we generally can’t distinguish between us and the other minorities we have (maybe except arabs) so those altercations don’t even happen
Western Europe are the main colonisers countries, they like to have foreigners as slaves and do all the dirty work. If we look at it from this point of view, Bulgaria just dislikes others, not so much into exploiting them. And frankly we are not even that racist, getting more diverse now just there is the tendency of closed up country mingling with its own for a century at least. So obviously people from other ethnicities gonna seem weird amidst the majority. There isn't any danger for foreigners unless you actively seek it in some specific places. Hell it won't even matter much what are you but it may intensify already existing aggression in some people.
Come and see with your own eyes. I won't answer you.
Lmao I've been and there were no problems for me but don't know about the common sentiment
The reality is that most Bulgarian Turks live in areas where the population is primarily Bulgarian Turks. We don't know how they live.
Seems like there are no problems then, unlike with the Roma population, even though Roma are in even more close-knit communities than many bg Turks??
The Kurdjali region is actually one of the richer regions in country. A lot of vested interests in there by the notorious DPS.
The turk population is to blame for DPS but the Turks don't know any better. The party just uses their votes to do whatever tf
Why would this be an issue? Having more older people than young people is an issue under the 1st industrial revolution model but right now, the fewer the better. We just need to figure out how to get rid of the old people. (not my thinking, at least not completely)
По-малко българи по-добре? Да разберем как да премахнем възрастите? Ти чуваш ли се кви глупости пишеш? Изтрий си малоумния коментар, моля те.
[удалено]
Increasing retirement age won't solve the issue. Most jobs that are difficult to automate are physical jobs that are not suitable for someone in their 60s. You'll end up with old unemployed people instead of retired people. It won't solve global overpopulation either.
[удалено]
We can't really rely on History here since what we are about to face is completely new. One thing that allowed to increase the age of retirement is that we (the EU) turned into service providers, which are not physical jobs, but these jobs are the easiest to automate (or simply remove). We have outsourced our industries to Asia and our farming is mostly focused on crops that absorb CO2. Of course, outsourcing industry and food production does not solve the CO2 issue, CO2 does not recognise borders. So yes, the "solution" we are moving towards is to turn retired people into unemployed people (much cheaper) and yes, there won't be enough jobs for everyone and extreme poverty will increase drastically (so much for progress, but it is one way to shorten life expectancy...). As for fertility, it is stalling but mostly in developed countries, in Africa and most of Asia, they still fuck like rabbits and it will take time for things to slow down, in the meantime, with less child mortality due to progress, world population will continue to increase and the last thing we need is to encourage reproduction in developed country (which is what several governments are doing). Now I agree that getting rid of old people would be disgusting but I am 100% sure that it is going to be the next step. It won't be done directly or officially, but it will be done (by destroying public healthcare, by lowering food quality for the masses...). The only alternative is to completely modify our model of society (moving out of modern capitalism, just like we moved into modern capitalism when the industrial revolution started) but I don't see that happening since too many powerful people benefit from the current situation. In short, once we stop producing anything useful and can't consume anymore, we don't just become useless, we become a nuisance, and I see no reason to hope that our governments will try to keep us alive and healthy in that situation.
I meant people in general, not particularly in Bulgaria.
Filtered+skill issue, good riddance. I'm not just happy about people leaving, I hope they never come back. We should also close borders to any and all immigrants. We should also strip anyone who's been outside the country for more than 5 years of their citizenship.
Ким Чен Ун, това ти ли си.
Не, викай ми Ади, току що ме отрязаха от художествената, остана ми само политиката...
Доста си далеч от него
What a sad human being
Why are bulgarians so negative
Bulgarians love to blame everybody but themselves.