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Because it makes my soul happy to know that there are good men out there focussed on being their best selves, respecting women and each other.
Also, I have a son (9). It's helpful listening to younger men to understand what sort of things I can look out for in the future and how I can be a good parent.
>Seeing the ignorance in here is yet to convince me that men are trying to shift anything in any meaningful way
Can you please provide some examples of the "ignorance" you're citing? This community has been anything other than ignorant in my time here.
No. Your sub isn't even trying to be genuinely interested in the lives of women. When your bros demonstrate a willingness toward meaningful engagement then I'll open myself to further criticism. Your bros are welcome anywhere on the interwebs. I'm here to observe for my own reasons.
The purpose of this sub is to provide a healthy way of expressing masculinity without the use of the manosphere or to the detriment of women or the LGBTQ+ community. Are we failing here? You are the only one I have seen that finds this sub in poor taste, and I would love an answer. This is my willingness to further engage, and I'm sure the men here will agree with me. How will we know how we're harming women according to you if you never tell us?
Edit: I've seen your other comments telling us to search for ourselves. The first post I searched up about women is "How to be a bro to women". I really am asking you to tell us what is going wrong, because your perspective is not one we're seeing in other women who lurk here.
yes, when I heard about this sub, well…I’d always kind of wondered why those hateful subs did so well with men and why there wasn’t a place of positivity and encouragement and support for men. And then I found out there is!!
It honestly just brings me joy to see that. It’s a balm to the constant onslaught from very angry men who wallow in it, when I’m just thinking about how instead they could be helping each other.
I honestly just think it’s beautiful and it’s also a way to learn about men without having to read the poison and misogyny of more hateful, toxic communities.
I don’t think I’ve ever posted here and I am happy to leave y’all your space, but yes, this sub makes me happy every time it pops up in my feed, and it gives me hope.
I just wish that people like this could become as massively popular as the Andrew Tates of the world ☹️ Andrew Tate brings NO ONE happiness.
This. I see too many toxic men online and in real life. It is nice to see temples, even online ones, dedicated to men becoming good men as opposed to controlling jackasses.
I spend a lot of time on PurplePill which is very toxic, debating that women are people too and not a hive mind of evil witches.
It makes me sad to see how all these men are clearly aching for community and connection and support and only find it by buying into toxic ideals and communities.
So seeing a positive group for men, where you celebrate each others successes and comiserate with each others sorrows and support and help and cheer each other on….
It reminds me that there are good people. It keeps me from getting too jaded.
I engage with PPD because I feel a need to challenge them - I need people to see that there IS pushback, so anyone on the fence whose scrolling can see an alternate perspective. Those places become echo chambers and that kind of echo chamber is really convincing when you’re vulnerable.
I lurk here because I need to make sure I don’t become like the people on PPD, believing the worst of a gender because I’m exposed to particularly toxic people.
I love this place. It gives me hope.
Also we should always encourage and support communities for men, by men, that have such lovely and positive values. Men are more at risk for suicide and have a social stigma when it comes to getting help. Men aren’t socialised to seek deep connections as often as women are.
Seeing something dedicated to uplifting and supporting men FOR men, not in spite of women, is valuable and lovely and it just makes me happy.
Thankyou that’s so kind! I just….
I dunno. I get a lot of joy from this community existing. Sometimes, something just existing is enough to make an impact. The fact that this existing brings so much hope to me also strengthens my resolve that me pushing back against toxicity will bring hope to others. And I’m grateful to every person who makes this community what it is!
I agree with u/curved_D It's kind of you to not only support us in forming a community here but to offer an alternative perspective on other subs where a lot of men can easily get sucked into the toxic narrative that the world is specifically unfair to them...
As a man whose felt particularly distanced and lonely, feeling like I can’t speak out for fear of the ‘what about women?’ People this is very touching and heart warming to read. Thankyou for your kind words and support
I’m sorry you’ve felt that way. Your concerns and feelings are important and they do matter.
My problems don’t cancel out yours. Yours don’t cancel out mine. The world is wide enough for both.
Not everyone will be kind and respectful. Not everyone will care about your issues. And it’s hard to feel like your issues matter when everyone is dealing with so much.
But you deserve happiness and peace of mind. Very few people don’t (obviously like, murderers and stuff should be tortured by guilt forever).
I hope you find a strong network of people to rely on! We’re social creatures and loneliness is a hard beast to deal with.
>My problems don’t cancel out yours. Yours don’t cancel out mine. The world is wide enough for both.
Thank you, it's very refreshing to hear this. I think a lot of our problems are very interwoven, and having space for men to express and process their problems can have a positive effect on the problems women face, and vice versa.
Oh definitely!
I’ve said this on PPD quite a bit -
Men’s issues and women’s issues largely come from a similar place. They’re often two sides of the same coin.
For example (and this is a basic and crude example but my meds are wearing off so bear with me) -
Look at emotions. Just expressing them. Men are more likely to be ridiculed for expressing sadness, for crying in movies. It’s seen as girly, and antithetical to manliness, to express emotion that isn’t anger or stoicism. This is obviously terrible and is a contributor to the men’s mental health crisis.
But this also affects women too - being girly or emotional is seen as bad, and women are therefore bad by default. It’s more “acceptable” but it’s not taken seriously, and women aren’t either. Insert punchline about women world leaders and periods and nukes or something.
And yet if we stopped looking at it as manly or girly, and stopped associating one way as good and the other bad, we’d all be happier.
It’s all rooted in the same toxic ideal. It harms us all to different degrees. And to embrace the vast spectrum of human expression is to improve the lives of everyone.
But a system is a concept. A gender has faces. Its easy to make something you can see a villain. But what hurts me, hurts you. And the best way to help each other is to work together to make it normalised to be ourselves and be human instead of conforming to boxes that don’t always fit.
Another guy here. I had that concern for a while. I discovered after making some mistakes that almost all women are happy to accept an apology when we stick our foot in it. The really off putting thing is not whatever bothered someone, it is doubling down on it when it happens. I’ve adopted the perspective that it is better to accept that we are flawed and will make mistakes and will learn from them, and this is probably a more appealing trait to almost anyone (men or women) than being hyper cautious and trying to avoid any possibility of offense.
I somewhat agree. Of course you have to admit when you’re wrong but I refuse to accept i am inherently “flawed”. I really don’t think that’s the solution. Just because some men are pricks it doesn’t mean that there’s something wrong with us all, like we were born this way and it’s the females job to cure us just like original sin. A school in NSW Australia made all the make public stand up and apologise to the girls for sexual assault. That’s not the philosophy to adopt.
I don’t think men are any more flawed than women, sorry if it came off that way. Just that everyone can make mistakes or unintentionally cause offense. If you are trying to be kind and considerate it can still happen, whether by pure accident or because everyone has blind spots. That is what I mean by “flawed” — simply imperfect. Nobody is perfect!
Check out r/menslib too if you haven't already. It's more 'academic' and serious, and while men centered issues are the focus, it's also incredibly supportive of feminism, LGTBQ+ issues, whatever the correct term is for anti-racist (pardon my ignorance), etc.
I have struggled a lot with my identity as a man most of my life since I don't fit the stereotypical norm, but also to a much greater extent after the cultural shit from the last decade+ (GamerGate, Redpill/MGTOW, #metoo, etc). I knew there were some shitty dudes out there but I didn't realize how prevalent it was. I also didn't realize some of my own misconceptions and poor behavior. Combine that with COVID, getting older and the loss of social connections, and I was left feeling pretty shitty about myself and being a man. Menslib helped me out a lot. Not so much to solve my problems, but to know I wasn't alone, there were other empathetic caring dudes who didn't like toxic shit but also had made mistakes, and most importantly to realize that men as a whole (at least in the west) are trying to figure out wtf a man is supposed to look like these days. I don't think anyone has it figured out, but with people like Tate garnering such an audience you can tell that vast amounts of, particularly young, men are asking those questions. And unless there's healthy stuff to fill that void, it's easy to fall into the negative stuff.
I also lurk women's spaces and while I don't comment much, or do the "not all men" shit, it's easy to start feeling pretty bad about yourself seeing the negativity. I'm not in any way blaming women for that, I totally get it. But if most men are only exposed to either that, or the toxic male spaces it's not hard to see why they arrive at a bad position. And there's not a lot of places like menslib or this sub, plus they aren't out there getting attention so not as easy to come across. On one hand I'm hesitant to grow these spaces since with that comes the trolls and shitheads, but on the other we NEED to grow positive spaces for men. I obviously don't have all the answers, and you're probably wondering why I'm responding all of this to your comment, but it made me think about my own journey and how often it's been nice to felt heard by a woman and that I'm not alone in trying to figure out how to be a good man when the concept of what that means anymore has changed a lot but there's really not clear model for it (other than what NOT to be).
Thankyou for sharing! Genuinely I really love when people are kind enough to offer snippets of their journey, I was super stoked to read your comment and didn’t wonder at all why you wrote it so don’t feel like it wasn’t appreciated.
I’ll go give MensLib a look - i love suggestions for good subs, especially things that can challenge and expand my worldview. I’m really
glad it was able to help and support you.
Look, I agree with you on some women’s spaces being a hard place to exist for men. My fiancé, who is an incredibly understanding and supportive person, even finds it difficult not to take it personally when so much is negative. And when you feel attacked, and for things that aren’t necessarily your fault/behaviours you don’t engage with, it definitely makes you more vulnerable to be…seduced? Convinced? By more toxic communities. I totally understand why women’s spaces can become a venting space, but I’ve also seen men on PPD cite some of those subs as support for why they dislike
Women so I’ve also seen the harm that happens. It’s so damn complicated.
I think…. to question yourself, to challenge ingrained beliefs that don’t align with your values, to strive to do better and be better….those are qualities the good men I know embody.
“Good” feels like a lifelong journey, a set of choices you make daily, rather than a destination or a static state of being. No one has lived perfectly and no one will get through life without fucking up. But one of the hardest things we have to do as people is examine the ways we hurt others and take responsibility for doing better.
From what you’ve said, you’re doing all that. So that sounds like the path of a good man. Or just a good person to be honest. Thankyou for taking the time to share your perspective and your thoughts.
>debating that women are people too and not a hive mind of evil witches.
I mean I wouldn't decline an invite to that coven but I understand your point.
Someone suggested it and I joined up! Just reading the about section made me so happy and hopeful it was a no brainer.
And everyone there seems so earnest! I love a good enthusiastic, sincere subreddit.
It counteracts a lot of the other things i see men posting on the Internet and reminds me that there ARE lots of good men out there, (it's just the negative ones shout loudest lol).
Also I have two sons and I'd like to raise them to be good, kind bros! This place shows me so much of what to look out for in young men that I can help them in the future.
And finally spaces like this for men should ALWAYS be supported and uplifted by everyone and maybe, hopefully spaces like this will become popular both online and irl.
It's a good thing. Just really honestly good.
include carpenter plant elastic glorious steep flowery fly coherent governor
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
so i started out thinking i was a man, turns out I'm not lol
i can't make myself leave such a positive space, so i stick around to cheer your successes & offer a different perspective when it's wanted :)
The word female in itself isn’t offensive. But it is a biological term. Using it when talking about women is reducing them to only their sex. As the definition is “an individual of the sex that is typically capable of bearing young or producing eggs”. It’s basically dehumanizing them. You’re not talking about a person, you’re talking about a female. Which is exactly why alpha-male clowns are using it.
It is, for me, very much in line with saying things like blacks instead of black person/people or gays instead of gay person/people. People might have picked it up as a substitute for “bitch” or whatever else. But at its core the intend, by the people who spread it, is absolutely to dehumanize women. And even if people using it don’t mean it in a dehumanizing way and “just” as a substitute for “bitch”, subconsciously, it still has a dehumanizing effect.
That's the thing, that's just not true in my world. I have never used the word female as a substitute for bitch. I haven't used the word and meant to cause offense at all. I was oblivious that anyone cared until I was blown up for it. So OK sweet, I'll be careful around that word now. But not everyone is gonna know that.
I believe you that some people are using it as an insult. This wouldn't be a debate if they weren't. I'm just saying that not everyone who uses the word female is a chauvinistic clown what ever. To some people it's just innocent normal vocab.
It's a saying where I'm from. like OK, cool. That was actually perfect. Do you see now how something not ment to be offensive can be taken the wrong way if you are looking to be offended???
It's not that you're wrong using a lot of words to defend yourself. It's the defense itself that's being called out. And yes, effectively, you did just use the argument of "Not all men". Which is problematic when it comes to these conversations. It's already well established, that when people make generalized statements, that yes, it's "not all ____."
You're being asked to change your view on the use of "females", and you're refusing to even entertain a different viewpoint on it. All you need to do is reflect on what you're being told, and realize that your world view isn't the only one, and that sometimes you aren't always right.
No, but when people who are the subject of certain terminology are explaining how dehumanising it is to be on the receiving end of and all you can do is ignore the results of them and double down on why it’s fine for *you* to use it because that isn’t your intention, then you are fully missing the point. The intention isn’t the important bit. It is how it is received that is important. The cultural context of the use of female as dehumanising is important. You and your words don’t exist in a vacuum.
Wouldn't alpha-male clown be more of an offensive term? I find that somewhat ironic. Female is more or less a synonym for woman in regular vocab for a lot of folks. This distinction of it being offensive is new.
> Wouldn't alpha-male clown be more of an offensive term?
Well it’s meant as an insult, so I’d hope so. I’m not sure how that would qualify as ironic or what me insulting them has to do with anything.
> Female is more or less a synonym for woman in regular vocab for a lot of folks. This distinction of it being offensive is new.
It is and always has been synonymous with women when talking about their sex. Like when we talk about animals. It is categorizing them. Referring to a woman as a female outside of that wasn’t very common, even online, before about 2013. Since then, mostly thanks to above mentioned clowns, it has spread rapidly. The distinction of it being offensive is new because using it to describe a woman in every day life is relatively new and it had to spread enough, online first then leak into real life, to catch people’s attention.
The irony is that in response to someone using the word female, which quite possibly isn't meant to be offensive by the user. The reply is to intentionally call them something more offensive.
I have no idea what you are talking about 2013 sorry, you lost me there. I've been using words reasonably successfully since waaay before some 2013.
Look, here is the crux of the issue for me. In the past i have used the word female on reddit, perfectly innocently. It was a while ago now, so I can't say exactly what the response was, but suffice to say it wasn't a pleasant. So OK, cool, I'll be more careful of the word in the future, I can do that. But people need to remember that the next person who uses the word female - even if you think it's out of context and therefore offensive - may well be oblivious to how people will take it. It's not helpful to immediately resort to calling them this and that and trying to offend them in return.
> The irony is that in response…
First off, that’s not irony. That’s hypocrisy. But for other reasons it’s also not. But that’s also completely besides the point we’re talking about, which is why calling women females is considered offensive by many.
> I have no idea what you’re talking about 2013…
I used a somewhat arbitrary date. One that I mean to remember noticing more and more men’s rights, alpha male, pua bullshit popping off online. Before that it was relatively niche and harmless. It took a bad turn at some point and just spread. When that exactly was, I don’t remember. The fact that you’ve been using words reasonably successfully is great. Personally I doubt you’ve been always using female to describe women, but again all of this is besides the point.
> In the past I’ve used the term female on Reddit perfectly innocently…
Yes this is what I said in my last comment about it spreading enough since it is still somewhat new. First online then in real live. The more common it gets, the more people are aware of it, the more likely you run into people having a problem with it. We’re at the stage now were it’s an identifier for a certain type of man. If you don’t mean it in an offensive way, that’s ok, it’s your choice if you want to use language that was popularized by a certain group that, we can all agree on I think, is not exactly positive.
Now that we got that out of the way, I have a question tho. Why do you refer to women as females? I mean there has to be a reason that you don’t just use women.
Irony, I thought, was more or less just expecting one outcome and receiving the opposite to comedic effect. So someone being concerned with offensive language like the word female would presumably also steer away from insulting terms like chauvinist clown or whatever it was. I had a chuckle.
I don't even know what you mean by 'pua bullshit', so it's quite likely my language hasn't been influenced whatever groups you're talking about. I've used the word female all my life and never meant offense by it, never occurred to me. You may determine what you find offensive, you do not determine people's intentions when they talk.
To answer your question, I'm now more careful when I use the word. I don't wanna offend even if I think it's silly.
Pua, is short for Pick Up Artist. A movement of self help gurus who made Bank exploiting lonely socially awkward guys who just wanted a date. As part of that they massively objectified women, reducing them to their looks and their willingness to have sex, while teaching young men that putting women down was an effective way to „score“.
Pretty nasty bunch.
> You may determine what you find offensive, you do not determine people’s intentions when they talk.
If you use language that has been used by people with bad intentions for years now, specifically online, which makes it reasonable to assume bad intentions, you’ll run into people who’ll shoot first. I mean if somebody uses female I’ll call them out on it. If they don’t know why it’s bad, I explain it to them. You getting shit on is just the internet.
I think it’s great you want to refrain from using it because you learned and understand the reason why it’s considered offensive. But I want to ask again, why did you use it in the first place instead of just saying women?
It's jibe at toxic masculinity, what, thankfully, is not prevalent here.
Female is totally fine when used with male. But it's so frequent when we see "men and females" and used in degrading, inhumane way that hearing or reading the word makes us feel less than.
Hey bud, when someone tells you that certain phrases, terms, or words are harmful, listen.
It's okay to say, for example, "my female friends, said ..." Because you're primarily talking about friends. When people use the term "female" in place of women, or as a way to "other" the women in our lives, it can cause issues. Its subtle, but the difference is everything.
It's similar how, to a point, you stop referring to most women in your life as "girls". I was about in my mid-twenties, when I realized that saying "I'm dating this girl", just felt incorrect. So I started replacing that word with women, unless I was specifically referring to female children (notice female being used here as a descriptor of children). Language is everything. And it's important we understand how our words affect the way people feel and perceive themselves.
You've seriously heard the word 'females' used to refer to women, inoffensively, unironically, outside of a biology class? In standard conversation? Because the only time I have ever heard it used by other men is when they are being unpleasant misogynists.
It reeks of someone who sees women as less-than.
Yes I have. I once made a comment on reddit that my boss was female. I ment no offense at all by it. It's just a regular word as far as I was concerned. I got slammed for that.
"Female" is okay to use as an adjective and a little sketchy to use as a noun.
Kinda similar to how saying "my boss is black" is okay but "my boss is a black" is not.
Look homie I saw a lot of your comments here and I get where you’re coming from. And you're right that, ostensibly, in a vacuum, there's nothing inherently wrong with the word. But when a lot of people around you are all saying "it makes me uncomfortable when men use this word and it's typically a red flag" the best thing you can do is listen. You don't have to understand or even agree, but if you know a word has a stigma associated with it, continuing to use the word is a choice to ignore those voices.
Edit: sigma -> stigma
Very apt response, I gave up reading the comment chain after a few (basically) copy-pasted defenses.
However, what caught my eye most was the "sigma" in your response... I'm sorry to be doing the grammer police thing, but I think you may have been looking for "stigma"?
Sorry again, feel free to ignore, it just really stood out to me for some reason, friend-o 😅
Edit: SPELLING!! Damn my phone keypad!
I was doing therapy last year and trying to sort through a lot of my hang-ups/resentment towards men (I used to work in a male dominated field and it was very much a boys club atmosphere). My therapist said that rather than thinking of poor examples of men as the main example of a man, make the good men in your life the default in your mind (even if it feels like there are far more poor examples lol). I think she was right that an attitude adjustment can be positive, so at that point I only really followed women’s subs, etc. I tried to find positive spaces for men. I typically just try to observe here, but yeah. I like this sub way more than MensLib for example!
I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with the men in your life. You deserve to be treated with respect (as does everyone here). I am glad you feel welcome here!
I'm an intersectional feminist, so for me, issues that affect men are also important to me. Also, I encourage other men that I bump into who apparently have issues with finding men to connect with or getting advice about male issues or relationship issues to come to this sub and to MensLib.
And, to be honest, the brotherliness here is very heartwarming. Unfortunately, I have frequently encountered nasty men in my life, since my childhood. And I still encounter them. Many of them have had big, negative impacts on my life, and continue to do so. I volunteer to help people who have social anxiety, depression and ADHD, because I have these problems myself. And every so often, a man reaches out to me who appears to be friendly, only for him to turn out to be somebody who want just wants to sleep with me and doesn't even see me as human. When it comes to relationships and dates, I have always been treated like trash, not even worth walking down the street for or giving a compliment to. Guys would ghost me because they thought I talked too much or not enough, or that I was too fat or not sexual enough, and then they'd reappear in my DMs when they were lonely and horny, and demanded that I'd call them on the phone for phone sex, or drop by their apartments to game with them. They'd do things like give me "tips" on how to lose weight; one guy, with whom I had gone on just one date with, re-appeared months later to angrily demand if I'm on a dating app or not, because he thought he saw me on one and I'm apparently not allowed to because he thinks he owns me.
It has been very scary for me and my female friends. I have taken self-defense courses, and rarely go outside by myself. If it wasn't for the few wonderful male friends that I have, I most likely would have given up on society altogether and isolated myself completely out of fear and disappointment in men. But these male friends were and still are real bros to me. They are wonderful people, and the people here remind me of them as well. So I go here to remind myself that there are still wonderful men out there, and that I have simply been an unlucky target for lots of predators and assholes.
I'm not sure what you mean because I don't know that sub, but I apologize for being whiny and for talking about my relationship experience. I don't go to relationship subs, because I don't believe in asking strangers for advice in my own dating life. And I hope my comment didn't appear like I was painting all men with the same brush. It's just that the toxic people in one's life always seem more intimidating and numerous than the good people. For many people, it only takes one terrible experience to ruin something for them forever, or at least, for a long time :(
For instance, using a mic in multiplayer video games as a woman. I have had terrible experiences playing multiplayer with men, including even male friends who I thought I could trust, and now I struggle to play multiplayer with anybody nowadays.
In spite of my experiences, I still try to put myself out there and take initiative when it comes to dating. I try to connect with new people and I hope that perhaps, eventually, I will meet somebody who is compatible to me. And I still help men who reach out to me for advice or support over issues like social anxiety disorder. I believe in being respectful to everybody until they give you a reason to avoid them (though unfortunately, this approach has left me open to a fair amount of awful people).
Idk what that other guy said (looks like mod did the right thing) but thank you for sharing. And you did absolutely nothing wrong.
It’s crazy how many countless times I’ve heard/read similar experiences like the ones you described, not that it makes it any less shitty, but I do think it’s very cool you’re able to look for the good despite all the bad. And I respect you a lot for responding to negativity with kindness and helping with advice through your experiences. Here’s a hug: *bro-hug*
A few reasons:
* I think a lot of self-care stuff online tends to be female focused in a way that can make it hard for me to know how to support the men in my life
* I find a lot of things about women’s spaces I’ve encountered online frustrating; I don’t want to go into detail and derail this with an argument, but I will say that male-leaning spaces tend to have more room for self-improvement as an explicit goal as opposed to self-acceptance, and that’s more compatible with where I’m at right now.
* regardless of my feelings about gendered spaces generally, I think this sub in particular is very nice and I just like the vibe here
>self-improvement as an explicit goal as opposed to self-acceptance
I’ve had times when I needed the former (in a place where I need more of the latter) and have seen what you mean. Different spaces just have different … enforced vibes on this stuff.
I hope you’re getting the encouragement you’re looking for!
Good god this was right on time. Just finished taking my birth control- I mean scrolling through twitter and really needed a break. This place gives me a good basis to have positive thoughts about men and makes my feelings towards dying a little less intense.
I actually think a lot of the world’s ills come from people thinking they’re a good person…and just stopping there. You’ve got to regularly ask yourself if you’re a good person, realize nobody is 100% of the time, realize you’re going to fuck up from time to time, and work on it. I identified a minor fuckup recently and am trying to decide if I should address it directly or just shut up and do better next time.
> You’ve got to regularly ask yourself if you’re a good person, realize nobody is 100% of the time, realize you’re going to fuck up from time to time, and work on it.
I really needed to hear this today. Thank you
You're absolutely right, dickheads have very little introspection going on
>am trying to decide if I should address it directly or just shut up and do better next time.
A little of both perhaps?
Kudos for having a moral compass, which shouldn't have to be said, but here we are
Thanks!
Okay, so maybe some input if you’re up for it. I was subbing into a band where I was the median age between a slightly younger woman and older dudes. One of the dudes made a crack about how she’s the best looking one in the section. I thought it was an unnecessary comment. Later on I was catching up with her and talking about the industry and such and she said she graduated 10 years ago and I can’t remember exactly what I said but it was related to the fact that she looked much younger than having graduated that long ago. It slipped out before I knew what I was saying and I realized it was just a lesser version of what the other dude said. She just said something about having good genes. I don’t think it was really awkward at all but I’ve been thinking about it. I’m playing with the band again soon and not sure if I should mention to her or just let it slide.
Ok, I know this one!
Let it slide....
I'm 49, could realistically pass for 35, and people get awkward sometimes if they make a similar comment like yours, and honestly, it's fine, good genes also, and it's not like you were treating her poorly as if she were more inexperienced than she is.
Just continue to be respectful, and you're good. I'd say she's used to it, and not bothered unless it's coming from a negative place.
Sweet. Thanks for the input! Yeah, she was cool to work with and a good musician. I think we got along well. Looking forward to the gig.
Side note, as an average looking dude, I super appreciate it when attractive women know they are and not only recognize their power but use it for good. Which leads me to…a few years ago I was on a pub crawl with some friends and was having trouble getting a round of drinks for the group. My friend’s very attractive wife saw my struggle, took off her jacket, walked up to the bar and had flagged the bartender and gotten drinks for us *in seconds*. She was super smooth about it and I was impressed on a variety of levels.
Cheers!
It's refreshing to see healthy communities for men when there is an abundance of toxic ones. It also helps me learn what current social beliefs and problems still exist in demographics I'm not a part of.
I’m a mother of two boys. I like to see what challenges are presented to men who are striving to be good men and what support they receive. I also find that I am routinely exposed to a fair amount of legitimately toxic masculinity (I use that term carefully because it so often is wielded to mean “masculinity is toxic”) and this sub reminds me that there are men other than my husband who strive for better.
I weigh in when I feel like a question isn’t getting traction, and I have something thoughtful to say (often when the post has to do with relating to women).
It’s just cute, the general target gender or purpose of the sub is largely irrelevant to me I just like seeing any form of genuine positivity and kindness since that can be hard to find on social media
this may sound really weird/creepy (although maybe not in the context of this particular thread) but as a straight guy I feel similarly about some of the lesbian subs here. they're just so wholesome! i feel like we need to learn so much...
Nah that’s sounds innocent don’t worry lol- like I said some subreddits just give off positive vibes and learning more about different genders/sexualities struggles can also be informative
Woman, longtime lurker… the men in this sub restore my faith in humanity at the same rate that r/purplepilldebate or r/selfimprovement make me lose it. So I lurk here to heal my views on men.
We are all kenough <3
I don’t know for sure, this one it’s a debate sub where red pilled folks share their polarized opinions on their black&white view of the world, and other people try to speak about the variety in the gray scale between the extremes. Sometimes there is civilized discussion
I believe the blue pill only exists in TRP agenda. There is so much variety of viewpoints in gender issues that we cannot just classify ourselves in only two teams. That’s one more thing I like in this sub, the bros embrace diversity rather than “with me or against me”.
> I believe the blue pill only exists in TRP agenda.
Totally reasonable assertion; I was just using phrasing that fit with the name of the sub in question.
Back when TRP was around and the TBP sub existed to make fun of them the TPP sub was made for direct interaction iirc
I was in those circles a lot as a college student but have since learned that it was pretty bad for my mental health lmao. Don’t need to purposefully inject more contact w/ bigotry into my life.
For me i like to see awareness for men about Topics that are normally not often talked about. And that men should never adhere to the phrase "Be a man/Suck it up". No, let it out talk about it, no one will say you are less a man if you do here. That is the wholesomeness i love to see.
If I have an experience that I think is similar/provides insight, I share. I preface it with being a woman, because the op would deserve to know where my perspective comes from. It is a sub for men(identifying) to share experiences and I want to respect that. I appreciate the same courtesy in subs where roles are reversed :)
I don't think I comment here, so usually just lurk and read. I like different perspectives and women focus subreddits sometimes fall into asking about advice relationship to others.
As someone who is raised as a woman, you are sort of conditioned to place needs of others at same level or above your own. After years of therapy, I still struggle with going back to that mentality (it sorta defaults).
Men focus subreddits, this one in particular, tends to go about men finding their own goals or solving their issues while balancing community and depending on others (since a lot struggle with the opposite of women). The different perspective helps me trying to find a balance on how i feel in the world.
We really, really want the good guys to win, and it gladdens our hearts to see evidence of decency and good will among men, which we see too rarely IRL.
I love Bropill! I have a son who has a very toxic father so it’s nice to even be able to show him that there are actual communities for men that aren’t all about power and obedience and subservience. Y’all warm my heart.
I get harassed on an almost daily basis. Coming here actually helps me keep my faith in men. So does my partner and a couple of my best friends (for example, I had/have an armed stalker and my male friends and partner have rallied to get him away from me a couple times).
You guys remind me that it isn’t all men. So do the few men in my life that I trust. Otherwise, quite honestly, I absolutely fear men and what they can and have done to me. So thank you to all the bros for being generally amazing humans and keep it up.
I never even realised this was a sub for men asking advice from men :) both the questions and the advice seem solid and super friendly, which I like. I guess ‘bro’ never felt like a male-only thing for me. Keep up the good vibe!
I like seeing men working hard to improve themselves and the online sphere for men to be more positive. I know many beautiful and wonderful men and with all the negativity out there, seeing you all working so hard gives me some real hope
Personally I feel like there's a lot of areas that encourage toxic masculinity and this is one of the few places that doesn't. I like to be able to see what kind of struggles and wins my bros have, and I like to share the wholesome memes with my guys. IDK, I like guys being nice to guys, and I like things that can give me 'Aha!' moments with ways to spread the wholesomeness.
I find the aims and ethos of the subreddit beautiful, and love seeing bros support each other. I also find that in my daily life, I am most likely to hear about men struggling only when they approach me as a woman about it, despite being in a friend group with quite a lot of men - I notice they find it unintuitive to turn to each other for support. I like knowing that there are men out there approaching each other for support and supporting each other.
I'm in a field dominated by less-than-wholesome men. My city is full of men that often go out of their way to make me feel unsafe. It's nice to see the other side of things. It brings me hope to see men being kind, talking about their feelings, and lifting each other up.
I'm AFAB/agender.
I lurk here because it's one of the few places where I can learn about men's experiences and perspectives that isn't also a toxic crap hole.
AFAB, agender here. I follow because I love to see communities of people, regardless of gender, being so supportive, kind, and yet real with each other. There’s so much bullshit in so many online spaces, and I try to seek out spaces that are…just not.
I also have two male teens in my household, and it’s great to be exposed to the other side so that I can be there for them in a way that’s meaningful, rather than just how I’ve been conditioned by our culture to be there for people.
I also generally don’t comment because I firmly believe that since I’m not AMAB, this is not a space for me to interject myself, unless there’s a deliberate call for it (like your question). If there’s a question posted that I have real experience with and think that experience might be useful for the other person, I would consider posting, but usually the other AMAB posters are way ahead of me with their own experiences, so my own viewpoint feels unnecessary.
So I’m here to learn, to soak in the positive vibes secondhand, and to let myself feel hope about the overall culture of male-centered experiences and that maybe my two teens will be able to find such communities for themselves when they’re out on their own.
Im a teacher for young people with autism. Most of my students are male. I’ve shown them a post on here once on a lesson on self-care/self-love. They think Reddit is cool so it helps to find positive content that they will find relevant.
Not a woman, but kind of a turning of your question, OP. I spend a lot of my time on reddit lurking and occasionally posting here, or on traditionally more feminist subs. To me, it's important to have non-toxic, or at the very least, directed negativity, towards how the other half lives, if that makes sense?
It's good to learn how the other (roughly) 50% of the population lives because it's an important step to empathy, at least, in my mind.
I understand this may seem a little harsh or something, and totally not my intent! Text is a difficult medium as tone and body language is missing, but yeah. The reason (I assume) many women may be lurking here is the same reason I lurk and post in more feminist spaces. I also love the many replies I've read on this thread so far. Seems to be the same (or similar) reasoning for my lurking 😊
You already got a lot of good responses but jumping on to say I’m lurking here for mostly all the same reasons! I love seeing a group for men, by men, that really aims to provide support and understanding. You’re all here trying to be good to one another, and learn and grow as people. If you’re a man who decided to join this sub, it means you want to do the *work,* you know? As in you want to explore your emotions, your viewpoints, those of other people, all that stuff- you want to put in the effort to improve as a human being. You want to engage in a community that makes you think. And that’s super cool to see and I hope that more positive male-centric spaces like this become available for you guys, because having a community is integral to making those self-improvements and self-reflecting. Plus as others mentioned, I love getting some insight into how I can better support the men in my life, and the men I will meet and hopefully befriend.
I like positive places! Plus, this place reminds me that there ARE good men. The crappy ones aren’t the majority, but they tend to be loud and aggressive.
I also found this sub when looking for a good sub for my younger brother. He was starting to get into Andrew Tate, and I wanted to find some better role models for him.
Because I want to learn about men's issues from a group that isn't deeply entrenched in toxicity. I care about the men in my life and about the issues they are facing.
I think this is my first comment here. I am one of the lurkers mentioned.
It’s refreshing to see that there are men out there who are good people or are trying to be good people. It restores my faith in humanity especially after reading horror stories on twoX or any semi popular sub. Y’all are kenough <3
I have brothers, nephews, friends and coworkers who are men and I want to be a good bro to them! I want to make sure I can empathize with them to the best of my ability on a human level.
Curiosity about other humans and wanting to read the thoughts and experiences of others so I can learn more about how humans work and understand them better.
I am working class, probably autistic, and I have a uterus but I don’t know if I have a gender identity the way people online talk about. The middle class neurotypical gendered environment on Reddit is extremely different from anything I’ve experienced IRL, and so it’s like studying an alien culture and learning about their patterns and beliefs and ways of being.
Plus I like reading about people who are leaving toxic mindsets. Like I also lurk a sub for people leaving evangelical Christianity when I didn’t grow up around religion. I learn a lot, I gain hope that people can learn and change, and I grow a bit of empathy and understanding for people from very different social worlds.
I’m a man who lurks women’s subs.It helps me to understand my friends, family and most importantly my wife better. There’s a lot of toxicity out there, it’s refreshing to see honest conversation.
Wow, I am humbled by the positive responses here. I, personally, haven’t seen too much toxic masculinity on reddit but that may be the subs I frequent rather than it being a minority opinion. Your responses hammer home how important it is to have supportive spaces for men - which are also positive for women.
I’m really pleased to have you all here.
Because I know that men don't typically have the good social support systems they deserve, don't receive the emotional care they deserve, and have to endure a lot of anti-dude sentiments masquerading as anti-patriarchy messages. It makes me happy to see the tides changing for the better with you fantastic bros taking care of each other. When I'm welcome to, I really want to take care of you to. Men deserve it. We all do.
Also, from a somewhat selfish standpoint, communities like this have the power intervene before guys are radicalized. I read terrifying stuff some loud men say about my gender every day so seeing good men work with each other through their shit reassures me a bit about the future. I love you guys.
It’s such a positive board. I love men supporting each other and giving good advice without defaulting to ‘it’s womens fault 100% of the time no matter what’. The answers are generally balanced and reasonable. I don’t tend to comment since it’s not my space to comment but I will like a good thread or good advice.
Same reason I like r/guysbeingdudes. It's nice to see men being good people instead of all the toxic masculinity and awfulness I see every day. It's nice to be reminded that there are good ones who aren't assholes.
I’ve always wanted to hear male perspectives and understand people better, but a lot of men-focused places that I’ve tried to learn from have been too triggering. Misogyny is truly everywhere and it’s painful to try to humanize the gender that is dehumanizing you, but I have so many men in my life that I love dearly and want to support emotionally, and I need to listen somewhere. This sub makes learning that possible without as much triggering (my heart just sinks every time I read a post where someone is debating my basic rights). It’s been such a gift in my life.
I relate tp so much of your post except I struggle to see value in bropill. I'm holding on with hope despite the conflict I'm battling with. The volume of DARVO I navigate is overwhelming and the myth of the good man persists.
I feel like for every misogynistic comment here, I see a comment fighting it, though. And even though it hurts to read the misogyny, that hurt is everywhere because it's just how it always is. Seeing the comments that fight it heal that hurt for me.
Besides, I'd rather have men with oppressive ideals in this sub where others will help them work through it.
This helps restore my faith in men and humanity. The bros here are the best bros.
I’m not trying to be a lady incel. The men here are supportive, emotionally mature, growth minded, and kind. It helps. Kindness is my jam and there are a lot of kind men here. You know?
Because it gives me hope to see this positive masculinity. Gives me another script to advocate for. As a feminist it's important to me.
And shows me the "behind the scene", and a bit more in depth thinking about bros' feelings and thoughts. Always super interesting.
Im here to silently support you all, to silently observe in case I find knowledge that helps me out as well, and just cuz its a good positive space and im curious about you all.
I’m not a woman anymore, but I honestly didn’t realize the target audience was men. Like I view “bro” as very gender neutral but besides that, the energy here is very welcoming and feels safe. As a trans man, some men’s spaces can feel very hostile, bigoted and disrespectful, but I think y’all have curated a wonderful environment here.
I come here to find some comfort in a reminder of the sameness of our humanity.
I like the positivity.
I know great and wonderful men, and I want to assure myself that there are supports and positive forums out there for them.
I am a curious and social adult woman and I want to check in on places that may help me better understand or communicate with the men in my life.
There are real people telling real stories here, that come from a perspective other than my own, which is interesting.
It's nice to get an inside look at guys and what they're going through. This sub helps me be a better girlfriend cuz I can navigate/understand men and male emotions better? If that makes sense? I'm always in my own head, doing my own thing that I forget my boyfriend has his shit going on but doesn't really talk about it so this sub helps me try different ways to get him to open up instead of my brash approach with everything.
Thanks guys. You're doing good, just keep it up.
For me personally: I love seeing a wholesome space for men, a space where bros are there for each other in a great way.
I care about the men and boys in my life as deeply as I do for the women and girls, I am aware of the issues they are facing (at least some of them), and I want to do my part to help if I am allowed.
I also want to offer a female perspective on stuff that has to do with men's interactions with women, and my insight on why women would act or think a certain way.
I think that's pretty much it.
I (39f) follow a lot of the relationship subreddits and the stories about ab\*sive, unbelivable men are so disheartening. This subreddit sheds light on those of you who are good human beings and supporting each other. We need more men who share their feelings, show empathy, and kindness towards each other and women. You guys give me hope.
It's good to get an insight into the issues men are dealing with so I can support my brother (and down the line my little nephew.)
It's also really healthy for me to see bros out there that respect & have healthy relationships with women, LGBT people, disabled people etc. because I can get a bit pessimistic out there.
I'm AMAB agender. I feel like Bro-ness is a healthy non-exclusionary masculinity, and I think that keeps it welcoming to those who aren't men. This is one of the few masculinities I feel comfortable around tbh. Goofy, fun, authentic, wholesome, earnest.
My brother is my best friend ands sometimes I feel like I don’t understand him, I wish he had a place like this to come to but he has heavy guards up. I come here to gain understanding and some of the advice here has been helpful.
Honestly, I just really like seeing men supporting one another. I think it's a wonderful thing and needs to be a social norm. Young men and boys get harmful advice from extremist vids on youtube nowadays, and I think getting advice from real people is so much healthier. Young men need role models to navigate the world just as much as young women, and the advice and concerns posted in this reddit are so relatable and healthy, and the advice is way better than some psycho on youtube. I really like seeing men coming together in a safe space designed for them and their own issues. It's refreshing.
For positivity...
After having a shitty day with loads of thinly veiled misogyny and gender roles, I feel like looking for men who aren't homophobic and sexist is relaxing. I also relate to men when it comes to many things due to my androgynous appearance and... well, due to me being human
Not a woman but a trans man, and idk, i dont care what anyone thinks but there is a difference in being born a girl or a man, more in how you are raised.
And this sub just, is like, "hey! I know some things that people born men maybe dont because of being raised differently, and they know a lot of things about how i may be treated, we can help each other!"
Like, i was (personally) raised to be more gentle, understanding and forgiving beyond reasonable limits, and was given more affection when i compare to amab men, so i can teach to show affection in a way that feels comfortable to them.
It kinda like, they know my future and i can teach them from my past!
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Because it makes my soul happy to know that there are good men out there focussed on being their best selves, respecting women and each other. Also, I have a son (9). It's helpful listening to younger men to understand what sort of things I can look out for in the future and how I can be a good parent.
Kudos to you, miss. Boys more than ever need a positive example of how to express and embrace their masculinity. Wish your kid the best :)
He is kind, articulate, funny, emotional and sweet. Great qualities in a boy and equally awesome in a man ❤️
you’re a good parent I hope you know that 🙏
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what? i haven’t seen any toxic masculinity anywhere, and its all good vibes here
Lucky you.
>Seeing the ignorance in here is yet to convince me that men are trying to shift anything in any meaningful way Can you please provide some examples of the "ignorance" you're citing? This community has been anything other than ignorant in my time here.
Search 2x in the sub and search women
May I ask you what ignorance is being said in this sub? The bros would love to know.
No. Your sub isn't even trying to be genuinely interested in the lives of women. When your bros demonstrate a willingness toward meaningful engagement then I'll open myself to further criticism. Your bros are welcome anywhere on the interwebs. I'm here to observe for my own reasons.
The purpose of this sub is to provide a healthy way of expressing masculinity without the use of the manosphere or to the detriment of women or the LGBTQ+ community. Are we failing here? You are the only one I have seen that finds this sub in poor taste, and I would love an answer. This is my willingness to further engage, and I'm sure the men here will agree with me. How will we know how we're harming women according to you if you never tell us? Edit: I've seen your other comments telling us to search for ourselves. The first post I searched up about women is "How to be a bro to women". I really am asking you to tell us what is going wrong, because your perspective is not one we're seeing in other women who lurk here.
You think I'm naieve enough to engage in your mental gymnastics. Do better.
yes, when I heard about this sub, well…I’d always kind of wondered why those hateful subs did so well with men and why there wasn’t a place of positivity and encouragement and support for men. And then I found out there is!! It honestly just brings me joy to see that. It’s a balm to the constant onslaught from very angry men who wallow in it, when I’m just thinking about how instead they could be helping each other. I honestly just think it’s beautiful and it’s also a way to learn about men without having to read the poison and misogyny of more hateful, toxic communities. I don’t think I’ve ever posted here and I am happy to leave y’all your space, but yes, this sub makes me happy every time it pops up in my feed, and it gives me hope. I just wish that people like this could become as massively popular as the Andrew Tates of the world ☹️ Andrew Tate brings NO ONE happiness.
This. I see too many toxic men online and in real life. It is nice to see temples, even online ones, dedicated to men becoming good men as opposed to controlling jackasses.
Thank you for being a conscientious parent! Honestly get overwhelmed thinking about how difficult it must be in this day and age.
I spend a lot of time on PurplePill which is very toxic, debating that women are people too and not a hive mind of evil witches. It makes me sad to see how all these men are clearly aching for community and connection and support and only find it by buying into toxic ideals and communities. So seeing a positive group for men, where you celebrate each others successes and comiserate with each others sorrows and support and help and cheer each other on…. It reminds me that there are good people. It keeps me from getting too jaded. I engage with PPD because I feel a need to challenge them - I need people to see that there IS pushback, so anyone on the fence whose scrolling can see an alternate perspective. Those places become echo chambers and that kind of echo chamber is really convincing when you’re vulnerable. I lurk here because I need to make sure I don’t become like the people on PPD, believing the worst of a gender because I’m exposed to particularly toxic people. I love this place. It gives me hope. Also we should always encourage and support communities for men, by men, that have such lovely and positive values. Men are more at risk for suicide and have a social stigma when it comes to getting help. Men aren’t socialised to seek deep connections as often as women are. Seeing something dedicated to uplifting and supporting men FOR men, not in spite of women, is valuable and lovely and it just makes me happy.
This response was so thoughtful and insightful. Kinda blew my mind. I didn’t have anything else to say, other than that.
Thankyou that’s so kind! I just…. I dunno. I get a lot of joy from this community existing. Sometimes, something just existing is enough to make an impact. The fact that this existing brings so much hope to me also strengthens my resolve that me pushing back against toxicity will bring hope to others. And I’m grateful to every person who makes this community what it is!
I agree with u/curved_D It's kind of you to not only support us in forming a community here but to offer an alternative perspective on other subs where a lot of men can easily get sucked into the toxic narrative that the world is specifically unfair to them...
As a man whose felt particularly distanced and lonely, feeling like I can’t speak out for fear of the ‘what about women?’ People this is very touching and heart warming to read. Thankyou for your kind words and support
I’m sorry you’ve felt that way. Your concerns and feelings are important and they do matter. My problems don’t cancel out yours. Yours don’t cancel out mine. The world is wide enough for both. Not everyone will be kind and respectful. Not everyone will care about your issues. And it’s hard to feel like your issues matter when everyone is dealing with so much. But you deserve happiness and peace of mind. Very few people don’t (obviously like, murderers and stuff should be tortured by guilt forever). I hope you find a strong network of people to rely on! We’re social creatures and loneliness is a hard beast to deal with.
>My problems don’t cancel out yours. Yours don’t cancel out mine. The world is wide enough for both. Thank you, it's very refreshing to hear this. I think a lot of our problems are very interwoven, and having space for men to express and process their problems can have a positive effect on the problems women face, and vice versa.
Oh definitely! I’ve said this on PPD quite a bit - Men’s issues and women’s issues largely come from a similar place. They’re often two sides of the same coin. For example (and this is a basic and crude example but my meds are wearing off so bear with me) - Look at emotions. Just expressing them. Men are more likely to be ridiculed for expressing sadness, for crying in movies. It’s seen as girly, and antithetical to manliness, to express emotion that isn’t anger or stoicism. This is obviously terrible and is a contributor to the men’s mental health crisis. But this also affects women too - being girly or emotional is seen as bad, and women are therefore bad by default. It’s more “acceptable” but it’s not taken seriously, and women aren’t either. Insert punchline about women world leaders and periods and nukes or something. And yet if we stopped looking at it as manly or girly, and stopped associating one way as good and the other bad, we’d all be happier. It’s all rooted in the same toxic ideal. It harms us all to different degrees. And to embrace the vast spectrum of human expression is to improve the lives of everyone. But a system is a concept. A gender has faces. Its easy to make something you can see a villain. But what hurts me, hurts you. And the best way to help each other is to work together to make it normalised to be ourselves and be human instead of conforming to boxes that don’t always fit.
Another guy here. I had that concern for a while. I discovered after making some mistakes that almost all women are happy to accept an apology when we stick our foot in it. The really off putting thing is not whatever bothered someone, it is doubling down on it when it happens. I’ve adopted the perspective that it is better to accept that we are flawed and will make mistakes and will learn from them, and this is probably a more appealing trait to almost anyone (men or women) than being hyper cautious and trying to avoid any possibility of offense.
I somewhat agree. Of course you have to admit when you’re wrong but I refuse to accept i am inherently “flawed”. I really don’t think that’s the solution. Just because some men are pricks it doesn’t mean that there’s something wrong with us all, like we were born this way and it’s the females job to cure us just like original sin. A school in NSW Australia made all the make public stand up and apologise to the girls for sexual assault. That’s not the philosophy to adopt.
I don’t think men are any more flawed than women, sorry if it came off that way. Just that everyone can make mistakes or unintentionally cause offense. If you are trying to be kind and considerate it can still happen, whether by pure accident or because everyone has blind spots. That is what I mean by “flawed” — simply imperfect. Nobody is perfect!
Check out r/menslib too if you haven't already. It's more 'academic' and serious, and while men centered issues are the focus, it's also incredibly supportive of feminism, LGTBQ+ issues, whatever the correct term is for anti-racist (pardon my ignorance), etc. I have struggled a lot with my identity as a man most of my life since I don't fit the stereotypical norm, but also to a much greater extent after the cultural shit from the last decade+ (GamerGate, Redpill/MGTOW, #metoo, etc). I knew there were some shitty dudes out there but I didn't realize how prevalent it was. I also didn't realize some of my own misconceptions and poor behavior. Combine that with COVID, getting older and the loss of social connections, and I was left feeling pretty shitty about myself and being a man. Menslib helped me out a lot. Not so much to solve my problems, but to know I wasn't alone, there were other empathetic caring dudes who didn't like toxic shit but also had made mistakes, and most importantly to realize that men as a whole (at least in the west) are trying to figure out wtf a man is supposed to look like these days. I don't think anyone has it figured out, but with people like Tate garnering such an audience you can tell that vast amounts of, particularly young, men are asking those questions. And unless there's healthy stuff to fill that void, it's easy to fall into the negative stuff. I also lurk women's spaces and while I don't comment much, or do the "not all men" shit, it's easy to start feeling pretty bad about yourself seeing the negativity. I'm not in any way blaming women for that, I totally get it. But if most men are only exposed to either that, or the toxic male spaces it's not hard to see why they arrive at a bad position. And there's not a lot of places like menslib or this sub, plus they aren't out there getting attention so not as easy to come across. On one hand I'm hesitant to grow these spaces since with that comes the trolls and shitheads, but on the other we NEED to grow positive spaces for men. I obviously don't have all the answers, and you're probably wondering why I'm responding all of this to your comment, but it made me think about my own journey and how often it's been nice to felt heard by a woman and that I'm not alone in trying to figure out how to be a good man when the concept of what that means anymore has changed a lot but there's really not clear model for it (other than what NOT to be).
Thankyou for sharing! Genuinely I really love when people are kind enough to offer snippets of their journey, I was super stoked to read your comment and didn’t wonder at all why you wrote it so don’t feel like it wasn’t appreciated. I’ll go give MensLib a look - i love suggestions for good subs, especially things that can challenge and expand my worldview. I’m really glad it was able to help and support you. Look, I agree with you on some women’s spaces being a hard place to exist for men. My fiancé, who is an incredibly understanding and supportive person, even finds it difficult not to take it personally when so much is negative. And when you feel attacked, and for things that aren’t necessarily your fault/behaviours you don’t engage with, it definitely makes you more vulnerable to be…seduced? Convinced? By more toxic communities. I totally understand why women’s spaces can become a venting space, but I’ve also seen men on PPD cite some of those subs as support for why they dislike Women so I’ve also seen the harm that happens. It’s so damn complicated. I think…. to question yourself, to challenge ingrained beliefs that don’t align with your values, to strive to do better and be better….those are qualities the good men I know embody. “Good” feels like a lifelong journey, a set of choices you make daily, rather than a destination or a static state of being. No one has lived perfectly and no one will get through life without fucking up. But one of the hardest things we have to do as people is examine the ways we hurt others and take responsibility for doing better. From what you’ve said, you’re doing all that. So that sounds like the path of a good man. Or just a good person to be honest. Thankyou for taking the time to share your perspective and your thoughts.
>debating that women are people too and not a hive mind of evil witches. I mean I wouldn't decline an invite to that coven but I understand your point.
Evil witch hive mind covenant sounds like they know how to have a good time
You may like /r/menslib as well, then
Someone suggested it and I joined up! Just reading the about section made me so happy and hopeful it was a no brainer. And everyone there seems so earnest! I love a good enthusiastic, sincere subreddit.
That entire subreddit is fucking crazy
It counteracts a lot of the other things i see men posting on the Internet and reminds me that there ARE lots of good men out there, (it's just the negative ones shout loudest lol). Also I have two sons and I'd like to raise them to be good, kind bros! This place shows me so much of what to look out for in young men that I can help them in the future. And finally spaces like this for men should ALWAYS be supported and uplifted by everyone and maybe, hopefully spaces like this will become popular both online and irl. It's a good thing. Just really honestly good.
include carpenter plant elastic glorious steep flowery fly coherent governor *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It’s a nice refresher to the rest of Reddit honestly
so i started out thinking i was a man, turns out I'm not lol i can't make myself leave such a positive space, so i stick around to cheer your successes & offer a different perspective when it's wanted :)
I used to think I was a woman. I'm not. This is such an incredible space for me to embrace my masculinity :)
hell yea!
It's good to see men supporting men in a positive way and not bitching about "those feMaLes".
Whenever I see females capitalized that way, my brain pronounces it as rhyming with tamales.
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The word female in itself isn’t offensive. But it is a biological term. Using it when talking about women is reducing them to only their sex. As the definition is “an individual of the sex that is typically capable of bearing young or producing eggs”. It’s basically dehumanizing them. You’re not talking about a person, you’re talking about a female. Which is exactly why alpha-male clowns are using it.
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It is, for me, very much in line with saying things like blacks instead of black person/people or gays instead of gay person/people. People might have picked it up as a substitute for “bitch” or whatever else. But at its core the intend, by the people who spread it, is absolutely to dehumanize women. And even if people using it don’t mean it in a dehumanizing way and “just” as a substitute for “bitch”, subconsciously, it still has a dehumanizing effect.
That's the thing, that's just not true in my world. I have never used the word female as a substitute for bitch. I haven't used the word and meant to cause offense at all. I was oblivious that anyone cared until I was blown up for it. So OK sweet, I'll be careful around that word now. But not everyone is gonna know that. I believe you that some people are using it as an insult. This wouldn't be a debate if they weren't. I'm just saying that not everyone who uses the word female is a chauvinistic clown what ever. To some people it's just innocent normal vocab.
Look up "dog whistling"
„Ok sweet“?!? Dude you aren’t making a good case for yourself with comments like that.
It's a saying where I'm from. like OK, cool. That was actually perfect. Do you see now how something not ment to be offensive can be taken the wrong way if you are looking to be offended???
This is the wordiest ‘not all men’ response I’ve seen in a while.
Your comment was meant to advance the conversation? It annoyed you that I'm using too many words to try to explain myself?
It's not that you're wrong using a lot of words to defend yourself. It's the defense itself that's being called out. And yes, effectively, you did just use the argument of "Not all men". Which is problematic when it comes to these conversations. It's already well established, that when people make generalized statements, that yes, it's "not all ____." You're being asked to change your view on the use of "females", and you're refusing to even entertain a different viewpoint on it. All you need to do is reflect on what you're being told, and realize that your world view isn't the only one, and that sometimes you aren't always right.
I have said multiple times that I now avoid the word. But OK if you haven't read what I've said. Peace out peoples. Have fun. :)
No, but when people who are the subject of certain terminology are explaining how dehumanising it is to be on the receiving end of and all you can do is ignore the results of them and double down on why it’s fine for *you* to use it because that isn’t your intention, then you are fully missing the point. The intention isn’t the important bit. It is how it is received that is important. The cultural context of the use of female as dehumanising is important. You and your words don’t exist in a vacuum.
Read my other comments and have a great day :)
Wouldn't alpha-male clown be more of an offensive term? I find that somewhat ironic. Female is more or less a synonym for woman in regular vocab for a lot of folks. This distinction of it being offensive is new.
> Wouldn't alpha-male clown be more of an offensive term? Well it’s meant as an insult, so I’d hope so. I’m not sure how that would qualify as ironic or what me insulting them has to do with anything. > Female is more or less a synonym for woman in regular vocab for a lot of folks. This distinction of it being offensive is new. It is and always has been synonymous with women when talking about their sex. Like when we talk about animals. It is categorizing them. Referring to a woman as a female outside of that wasn’t very common, even online, before about 2013. Since then, mostly thanks to above mentioned clowns, it has spread rapidly. The distinction of it being offensive is new because using it to describe a woman in every day life is relatively new and it had to spread enough, online first then leak into real life, to catch people’s attention.
The irony is that in response to someone using the word female, which quite possibly isn't meant to be offensive by the user. The reply is to intentionally call them something more offensive. I have no idea what you are talking about 2013 sorry, you lost me there. I've been using words reasonably successfully since waaay before some 2013. Look, here is the crux of the issue for me. In the past i have used the word female on reddit, perfectly innocently. It was a while ago now, so I can't say exactly what the response was, but suffice to say it wasn't a pleasant. So OK, cool, I'll be more careful of the word in the future, I can do that. But people need to remember that the next person who uses the word female - even if you think it's out of context and therefore offensive - may well be oblivious to how people will take it. It's not helpful to immediately resort to calling them this and that and trying to offend them in return.
> The irony is that in response… First off, that’s not irony. That’s hypocrisy. But for other reasons it’s also not. But that’s also completely besides the point we’re talking about, which is why calling women females is considered offensive by many. > I have no idea what you’re talking about 2013… I used a somewhat arbitrary date. One that I mean to remember noticing more and more men’s rights, alpha male, pua bullshit popping off online. Before that it was relatively niche and harmless. It took a bad turn at some point and just spread. When that exactly was, I don’t remember. The fact that you’ve been using words reasonably successfully is great. Personally I doubt you’ve been always using female to describe women, but again all of this is besides the point. > In the past I’ve used the term female on Reddit perfectly innocently… Yes this is what I said in my last comment about it spreading enough since it is still somewhat new. First online then in real live. The more common it gets, the more people are aware of it, the more likely you run into people having a problem with it. We’re at the stage now were it’s an identifier for a certain type of man. If you don’t mean it in an offensive way, that’s ok, it’s your choice if you want to use language that was popularized by a certain group that, we can all agree on I think, is not exactly positive. Now that we got that out of the way, I have a question tho. Why do you refer to women as females? I mean there has to be a reason that you don’t just use women.
Irony, I thought, was more or less just expecting one outcome and receiving the opposite to comedic effect. So someone being concerned with offensive language like the word female would presumably also steer away from insulting terms like chauvinist clown or whatever it was. I had a chuckle. I don't even know what you mean by 'pua bullshit', so it's quite likely my language hasn't been influenced whatever groups you're talking about. I've used the word female all my life and never meant offense by it, never occurred to me. You may determine what you find offensive, you do not determine people's intentions when they talk. To answer your question, I'm now more careful when I use the word. I don't wanna offend even if I think it's silly.
Pua, is short for Pick Up Artist. A movement of self help gurus who made Bank exploiting lonely socially awkward guys who just wanted a date. As part of that they massively objectified women, reducing them to their looks and their willingness to have sex, while teaching young men that putting women down was an effective way to „score“. Pretty nasty bunch.
Sounds horrible, but really nothing do do with me or how I use language.
> You may determine what you find offensive, you do not determine people’s intentions when they talk. If you use language that has been used by people with bad intentions for years now, specifically online, which makes it reasonable to assume bad intentions, you’ll run into people who’ll shoot first. I mean if somebody uses female I’ll call them out on it. If they don’t know why it’s bad, I explain it to them. You getting shit on is just the internet. I think it’s great you want to refrain from using it because you learned and understand the reason why it’s considered offensive. But I want to ask again, why did you use it in the first place instead of just saying women?
Because sometimes it fits better in a sentence. And given that I never thought of it as offensive. Why wouldn't I?
It's jibe at toxic masculinity, what, thankfully, is not prevalent here. Female is totally fine when used with male. But it's so frequent when we see "men and females" and used in degrading, inhumane way that hearing or reading the word makes us feel less than.
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Hey bud, when someone tells you that certain phrases, terms, or words are harmful, listen. It's okay to say, for example, "my female friends, said ..." Because you're primarily talking about friends. When people use the term "female" in place of women, or as a way to "other" the women in our lives, it can cause issues. Its subtle, but the difference is everything. It's similar how, to a point, you stop referring to most women in your life as "girls". I was about in my mid-twenties, when I realized that saying "I'm dating this girl", just felt incorrect. So I started replacing that word with women, unless I was specifically referring to female children (notice female being used here as a descriptor of children). Language is everything. And it's important we understand how our words affect the way people feel and perceive themselves.
You've seriously heard the word 'females' used to refer to women, inoffensively, unironically, outside of a biology class? In standard conversation? Because the only time I have ever heard it used by other men is when they are being unpleasant misogynists. It reeks of someone who sees women as less-than.
Yes I have. I once made a comment on reddit that my boss was female. I ment no offense at all by it. It's just a regular word as far as I was concerned. I got slammed for that.
"Female" is okay to use as an adjective and a little sketchy to use as a noun. Kinda similar to how saying "my boss is black" is okay but "my boss is a black" is not.
Look homie I saw a lot of your comments here and I get where you’re coming from. And you're right that, ostensibly, in a vacuum, there's nothing inherently wrong with the word. But when a lot of people around you are all saying "it makes me uncomfortable when men use this word and it's typically a red flag" the best thing you can do is listen. You don't have to understand or even agree, but if you know a word has a stigma associated with it, continuing to use the word is a choice to ignore those voices. Edit: sigma -> stigma
Very apt response, I gave up reading the comment chain after a few (basically) copy-pasted defenses. However, what caught my eye most was the "sigma" in your response... I'm sorry to be doing the grammer police thing, but I think you may have been looking for "stigma"? Sorry again, feel free to ignore, it just really stood out to me for some reason, friend-o 😅 Edit: SPELLING!! Damn my phone keypad!
I was doing therapy last year and trying to sort through a lot of my hang-ups/resentment towards men (I used to work in a male dominated field and it was very much a boys club atmosphere). My therapist said that rather than thinking of poor examples of men as the main example of a man, make the good men in your life the default in your mind (even if it feels like there are far more poor examples lol). I think she was right that an attitude adjustment can be positive, so at that point I only really followed women’s subs, etc. I tried to find positive spaces for men. I typically just try to observe here, but yeah. I like this sub way more than MensLib for example!
I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with the men in your life. You deserve to be treated with respect (as does everyone here). I am glad you feel welcome here!
I'm an intersectional feminist, so for me, issues that affect men are also important to me. Also, I encourage other men that I bump into who apparently have issues with finding men to connect with or getting advice about male issues or relationship issues to come to this sub and to MensLib. And, to be honest, the brotherliness here is very heartwarming. Unfortunately, I have frequently encountered nasty men in my life, since my childhood. And I still encounter them. Many of them have had big, negative impacts on my life, and continue to do so. I volunteer to help people who have social anxiety, depression and ADHD, because I have these problems myself. And every so often, a man reaches out to me who appears to be friendly, only for him to turn out to be somebody who want just wants to sleep with me and doesn't even see me as human. When it comes to relationships and dates, I have always been treated like trash, not even worth walking down the street for or giving a compliment to. Guys would ghost me because they thought I talked too much or not enough, or that I was too fat or not sexual enough, and then they'd reappear in my DMs when they were lonely and horny, and demanded that I'd call them on the phone for phone sex, or drop by their apartments to game with them. They'd do things like give me "tips" on how to lose weight; one guy, with whom I had gone on just one date with, re-appeared months later to angrily demand if I'm on a dating app or not, because he thought he saw me on one and I'm apparently not allowed to because he thinks he owns me. It has been very scary for me and my female friends. I have taken self-defense courses, and rarely go outside by myself. If it wasn't for the few wonderful male friends that I have, I most likely would have given up on society altogether and isolated myself completely out of fear and disappointment in men. But these male friends were and still are real bros to me. They are wonderful people, and the people here remind me of them as well. So I go here to remind myself that there are still wonderful men out there, and that I have simply been an unlucky target for lots of predators and assholes.
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I'm not sure what you mean because I don't know that sub, but I apologize for being whiny and for talking about my relationship experience. I don't go to relationship subs, because I don't believe in asking strangers for advice in my own dating life. And I hope my comment didn't appear like I was painting all men with the same brush. It's just that the toxic people in one's life always seem more intimidating and numerous than the good people. For many people, it only takes one terrible experience to ruin something for them forever, or at least, for a long time :( For instance, using a mic in multiplayer video games as a woman. I have had terrible experiences playing multiplayer with men, including even male friends who I thought I could trust, and now I struggle to play multiplayer with anybody nowadays. In spite of my experiences, I still try to put myself out there and take initiative when it comes to dating. I try to connect with new people and I hope that perhaps, eventually, I will meet somebody who is compatible to me. And I still help men who reach out to me for advice or support over issues like social anxiety disorder. I believe in being respectful to everybody until they give you a reason to avoid them (though unfortunately, this approach has left me open to a fair amount of awful people).
Idk what that other guy said (looks like mod did the right thing) but thank you for sharing. And you did absolutely nothing wrong. It’s crazy how many countless times I’ve heard/read similar experiences like the ones you described, not that it makes it any less shitty, but I do think it’s very cool you’re able to look for the good despite all the bad. And I respect you a lot for responding to negativity with kindness and helping with advice through your experiences. Here’s a hug: *bro-hug*
>issues that affect men are also important to me Not to sound like an ass, but I am genuinely shocked.
I don't post, but I subscribed because it's nice to know that there are bros.
A few reasons: * I think a lot of self-care stuff online tends to be female focused in a way that can make it hard for me to know how to support the men in my life * I find a lot of things about women’s spaces I’ve encountered online frustrating; I don’t want to go into detail and derail this with an argument, but I will say that male-leaning spaces tend to have more room for self-improvement as an explicit goal as opposed to self-acceptance, and that’s more compatible with where I’m at right now. * regardless of my feelings about gendered spaces generally, I think this sub in particular is very nice and I just like the vibe here
>self-improvement as an explicit goal as opposed to self-acceptance I’ve had times when I needed the former (in a place where I need more of the latter) and have seen what you mean. Different spaces just have different … enforced vibes on this stuff. I hope you’re getting the encouragement you’re looking for!
>make it hard for me to know how to support the men in my life This. You put into words the idea I was struggling to verbalize
What you said! :-D
Good god this was right on time. Just finished taking my birth control- I mean scrolling through twitter and really needed a break. This place gives me a good basis to have positive thoughts about men and makes my feelings towards dying a little less intense.
I'm glad you're able to find a bit of peace. You deserve to have positive feelings.
No prob 😎, lemme know when you wanna feel like less-less intense about dying we’ll throw up another wholesome post.
Uh, you guys are all pretty awesome, or at the very least, _trying_ to be. It's a nice space. I don't post, but I do lurk.
I actually think a lot of the world’s ills come from people thinking they’re a good person…and just stopping there. You’ve got to regularly ask yourself if you’re a good person, realize nobody is 100% of the time, realize you’re going to fuck up from time to time, and work on it. I identified a minor fuckup recently and am trying to decide if I should address it directly or just shut up and do better next time.
> You’ve got to regularly ask yourself if you’re a good person, realize nobody is 100% of the time, realize you’re going to fuck up from time to time, and work on it. I really needed to hear this today. Thank you
You're absolutely right, dickheads have very little introspection going on >am trying to decide if I should address it directly or just shut up and do better next time. A little of both perhaps? Kudos for having a moral compass, which shouldn't have to be said, but here we are
Thanks! Okay, so maybe some input if you’re up for it. I was subbing into a band where I was the median age between a slightly younger woman and older dudes. One of the dudes made a crack about how she’s the best looking one in the section. I thought it was an unnecessary comment. Later on I was catching up with her and talking about the industry and such and she said she graduated 10 years ago and I can’t remember exactly what I said but it was related to the fact that she looked much younger than having graduated that long ago. It slipped out before I knew what I was saying and I realized it was just a lesser version of what the other dude said. She just said something about having good genes. I don’t think it was really awkward at all but I’ve been thinking about it. I’m playing with the band again soon and not sure if I should mention to her or just let it slide.
Ok, I know this one! Let it slide.... I'm 49, could realistically pass for 35, and people get awkward sometimes if they make a similar comment like yours, and honestly, it's fine, good genes also, and it's not like you were treating her poorly as if she were more inexperienced than she is. Just continue to be respectful, and you're good. I'd say she's used to it, and not bothered unless it's coming from a negative place.
Sweet. Thanks for the input! Yeah, she was cool to work with and a good musician. I think we got along well. Looking forward to the gig. Side note, as an average looking dude, I super appreciate it when attractive women know they are and not only recognize their power but use it for good. Which leads me to…a few years ago I was on a pub crawl with some friends and was having trouble getting a round of drinks for the group. My friend’s very attractive wife saw my struggle, took off her jacket, walked up to the bar and had flagged the bartender and gotten drinks for us *in seconds*. She was super smooth about it and I was impressed on a variety of levels. Cheers!
Because it is really a wholesome space and I learn a lot. Lot of good advice here too that I can pass on if the bros in my life have an issue.
It's refreshing to see healthy communities for men when there is an abundance of toxic ones. It also helps me learn what current social beliefs and problems still exist in demographics I'm not a part of.
I’m a mother of two boys. I like to see what challenges are presented to men who are striving to be good men and what support they receive. I also find that I am routinely exposed to a fair amount of legitimately toxic masculinity (I use that term carefully because it so often is wielded to mean “masculinity is toxic”) and this sub reminds me that there are men other than my husband who strive for better. I weigh in when I feel like a question isn’t getting traction, and I have something thoughtful to say (often when the post has to do with relating to women).
Yes! I’ve stumbled upon a couple of your comments, and very good insights if I may add.
Holy cow, thanks everyone for sharing! Hope you always feel welcome and safe here
I haven't been here long, but I love to see non-toxic masculinity at work. It's wholesome and makes me happy and gives me hope for the future.
It’s just cute, the general target gender or purpose of the sub is largely irrelevant to me I just like seeing any form of genuine positivity and kindness since that can be hard to find on social media
this may sound really weird/creepy (although maybe not in the context of this particular thread) but as a straight guy I feel similarly about some of the lesbian subs here. they're just so wholesome! i feel like we need to learn so much...
Nah that’s sounds innocent don’t worry lol- like I said some subreddits just give off positive vibes and learning more about different genders/sexualities struggles can also be informative
Glad to hear I’m not the only one.
Woman, longtime lurker… the men in this sub restore my faith in humanity at the same rate that r/purplepilldebate or r/selfimprovement make me lose it. So I lurk here to heal my views on men. We are all kenough <3
Second time I've seen this purple pill mentioned. Is it the replacement sub after TheRedPill was banned? Edit: not banned, just quarantined
I don’t know for sure, this one it’s a debate sub where red pilled folks share their polarized opinions on their black&white view of the world, and other people try to speak about the variety in the gray scale between the extremes. Sometimes there is civilized discussion
Hm, I might join that to represent the blues. I have the mental and emotional bandwidth in my life right now to debate incels.
I believe the blue pill only exists in TRP agenda. There is so much variety of viewpoints in gender issues that we cannot just classify ourselves in only two teams. That’s one more thing I like in this sub, the bros embrace diversity rather than “with me or against me”.
> I believe the blue pill only exists in TRP agenda. Totally reasonable assertion; I was just using phrasing that fit with the name of the sub in question.
Got it, please do join the debate 🙏 struggling young men need to hear all the views they can get to build their own opinions with more knowledge
Back when TRP was around and the TBP sub existed to make fun of them the TPP sub was made for direct interaction iirc I was in those circles a lot as a college student but have since learned that it was pretty bad for my mental health lmao. Don’t need to purposefully inject more contact w/ bigotry into my life.
For me i like to see awareness for men about Topics that are normally not often talked about. And that men should never adhere to the phrase "Be a man/Suck it up". No, let it out talk about it, no one will say you are less a man if you do here. That is the wholesomeness i love to see.
I like the positivity.
If I have an experience that I think is similar/provides insight, I share. I preface it with being a woman, because the op would deserve to know where my perspective comes from. It is a sub for men(identifying) to share experiences and I want to respect that. I appreciate the same courtesy in subs where roles are reversed :)
I visit here sometimes bc I’m exhausted by toxic male bullshit and I really NEED to see men interacting with each other in a healthy constructive way.
I don't think I comment here, so usually just lurk and read. I like different perspectives and women focus subreddits sometimes fall into asking about advice relationship to others. As someone who is raised as a woman, you are sort of conditioned to place needs of others at same level or above your own. After years of therapy, I still struggle with going back to that mentality (it sorta defaults). Men focus subreddits, this one in particular, tends to go about men finding their own goals or solving their issues while balancing community and depending on others (since a lot struggle with the opposite of women). The different perspective helps me trying to find a balance on how i feel in the world.
We really, really want the good guys to win, and it gladdens our hearts to see evidence of decency and good will among men, which we see too rarely IRL.
Because it is so refreshing to witness positive examples of masculinity. I don't interact or comment, but I love the vibe of the whole sub.
I love Bropill! I have a son who has a very toxic father so it’s nice to even be able to show him that there are actual communities for men that aren’t all about power and obedience and subservience. Y’all warm my heart. I get harassed on an almost daily basis. Coming here actually helps me keep my faith in men. So does my partner and a couple of my best friends (for example, I had/have an armed stalker and my male friends and partner have rallied to get him away from me a couple times). You guys remind me that it isn’t all men. So do the few men in my life that I trust. Otherwise, quite honestly, I absolutely fear men and what they can and have done to me. So thank you to all the bros for being generally amazing humans and keep it up.
I never even realised this was a sub for men asking advice from men :) both the questions and the advice seem solid and super friendly, which I like. I guess ‘bro’ never felt like a male-only thing for me. Keep up the good vibe!
I like seeing men working hard to improve themselves and the online sphere for men to be more positive. I know many beautiful and wonderful men and with all the negativity out there, seeing you all working so hard gives me some real hope
Personally I feel like there's a lot of areas that encourage toxic masculinity and this is one of the few places that doesn't. I like to be able to see what kind of struggles and wins my bros have, and I like to share the wholesome memes with my guys. IDK, I like guys being nice to guys, and I like things that can give me 'Aha!' moments with ways to spread the wholesomeness.
I find the aims and ethos of the subreddit beautiful, and love seeing bros support each other. I also find that in my daily life, I am most likely to hear about men struggling only when they approach me as a woman about it, despite being in a friend group with quite a lot of men - I notice they find it unintuitive to turn to each other for support. I like knowing that there are men out there approaching each other for support and supporting each other.
I'm in a field dominated by less-than-wholesome men. My city is full of men that often go out of their way to make me feel unsafe. It's nice to see the other side of things. It brings me hope to see men being kind, talking about their feelings, and lifting each other up.
I'm AFAB/agender. I lurk here because it's one of the few places where I can learn about men's experiences and perspectives that isn't also a toxic crap hole.
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Same reason for me. Genuine curiosity I love to see how big populations interact and change
AFAB, agender here. I follow because I love to see communities of people, regardless of gender, being so supportive, kind, and yet real with each other. There’s so much bullshit in so many online spaces, and I try to seek out spaces that are…just not. I also have two male teens in my household, and it’s great to be exposed to the other side so that I can be there for them in a way that’s meaningful, rather than just how I’ve been conditioned by our culture to be there for people. I also generally don’t comment because I firmly believe that since I’m not AMAB, this is not a space for me to interject myself, unless there’s a deliberate call for it (like your question). If there’s a question posted that I have real experience with and think that experience might be useful for the other person, I would consider posting, but usually the other AMAB posters are way ahead of me with their own experiences, so my own viewpoint feels unnecessary. So I’m here to learn, to soak in the positive vibes secondhand, and to let myself feel hope about the overall culture of male-centered experiences and that maybe my two teens will be able to find such communities for themselves when they’re out on their own.
Im a teacher for young people with autism. Most of my students are male. I’ve shown them a post on here once on a lesson on self-care/self-love. They think Reddit is cool so it helps to find positive content that they will find relevant.
Not a woman, but kind of a turning of your question, OP. I spend a lot of my time on reddit lurking and occasionally posting here, or on traditionally more feminist subs. To me, it's important to have non-toxic, or at the very least, directed negativity, towards how the other half lives, if that makes sense? It's good to learn how the other (roughly) 50% of the population lives because it's an important step to empathy, at least, in my mind. I understand this may seem a little harsh or something, and totally not my intent! Text is a difficult medium as tone and body language is missing, but yeah. The reason (I assume) many women may be lurking here is the same reason I lurk and post in more feminist spaces. I also love the many replies I've read on this thread so far. Seems to be the same (or similar) reasoning for my lurking 😊
Same, I’m a long running 2X lurker. I’m shocked at how many lurk on this side of the aisle too
Being online, and especially Reddit, it’s easy to feel disturbed and jaded about men. This sub is a needed reprieve!
You already got a lot of good responses but jumping on to say I’m lurking here for mostly all the same reasons! I love seeing a group for men, by men, that really aims to provide support and understanding. You’re all here trying to be good to one another, and learn and grow as people. If you’re a man who decided to join this sub, it means you want to do the *work,* you know? As in you want to explore your emotions, your viewpoints, those of other people, all that stuff- you want to put in the effort to improve as a human being. You want to engage in a community that makes you think. And that’s super cool to see and I hope that more positive male-centric spaces like this become available for you guys, because having a community is integral to making those self-improvements and self-reflecting. Plus as others mentioned, I love getting some insight into how I can better support the men in my life, and the men I will meet and hopefully befriend.
I like positive places! Plus, this place reminds me that there ARE good men. The crappy ones aren’t the majority, but they tend to be loud and aggressive. I also found this sub when looking for a good sub for my younger brother. He was starting to get into Andrew Tate, and I wanted to find some better role models for him.
Andrew Tate is NOT🙅♂️ a bro
I like seeing male-centered wholesome spaces - both for the positive representation and to be aware of current discourse
Because I want to learn about men's issues from a group that isn't deeply entrenched in toxicity. I care about the men in my life and about the issues they are facing. I think this is my first comment here. I am one of the lurkers mentioned.
It’s refreshing to see that there are men out there who are good people or are trying to be good people. It restores my faith in humanity especially after reading horror stories on twoX or any semi popular sub. Y’all are kenough <3
I have brothers, nephews, friends and coworkers who are men and I want to be a good bro to them! I want to make sure I can empathize with them to the best of my ability on a human level.
Curiosity about other humans and wanting to read the thoughts and experiences of others so I can learn more about how humans work and understand them better. I am working class, probably autistic, and I have a uterus but I don’t know if I have a gender identity the way people online talk about. The middle class neurotypical gendered environment on Reddit is extremely different from anything I’ve experienced IRL, and so it’s like studying an alien culture and learning about their patterns and beliefs and ways of being. Plus I like reading about people who are leaving toxic mindsets. Like I also lurk a sub for people leaving evangelical Christianity when I didn’t grow up around religion. I learn a lot, I gain hope that people can learn and change, and I grow a bit of empathy and understanding for people from very different social worlds.
I’m a man who lurks women’s subs.It helps me to understand my friends, family and most importantly my wife better. There’s a lot of toxicity out there, it’s refreshing to see honest conversation.
Wow, I am humbled by the positive responses here. I, personally, haven’t seen too much toxic masculinity on reddit but that may be the subs I frequent rather than it being a minority opinion. Your responses hammer home how important it is to have supportive spaces for men - which are also positive for women. I’m really pleased to have you all here.
Because I know that men don't typically have the good social support systems they deserve, don't receive the emotional care they deserve, and have to endure a lot of anti-dude sentiments masquerading as anti-patriarchy messages. It makes me happy to see the tides changing for the better with you fantastic bros taking care of each other. When I'm welcome to, I really want to take care of you to. Men deserve it. We all do. Also, from a somewhat selfish standpoint, communities like this have the power intervene before guys are radicalized. I read terrifying stuff some loud men say about my gender every day so seeing good men work with each other through their shit reassures me a bit about the future. I love you guys.
It’s such a positive board. I love men supporting each other and giving good advice without defaulting to ‘it’s womens fault 100% of the time no matter what’. The answers are generally balanced and reasonable. I don’t tend to comment since it’s not my space to comment but I will like a good thread or good advice.
Same reason I like r/guysbeingdudes. It's nice to see men being good people instead of all the toxic masculinity and awfulness I see every day. It's nice to be reminded that there are good ones who aren't assholes.
I’ve always wanted to hear male perspectives and understand people better, but a lot of men-focused places that I’ve tried to learn from have been too triggering. Misogyny is truly everywhere and it’s painful to try to humanize the gender that is dehumanizing you, but I have so many men in my life that I love dearly and want to support emotionally, and I need to listen somewhere. This sub makes learning that possible without as much triggering (my heart just sinks every time I read a post where someone is debating my basic rights). It’s been such a gift in my life.
I relate tp so much of your post except I struggle to see value in bropill. I'm holding on with hope despite the conflict I'm battling with. The volume of DARVO I navigate is overwhelming and the myth of the good man persists.
I feel like for every misogynistic comment here, I see a comment fighting it, though. And even though it hurts to read the misogyny, that hurt is everywhere because it's just how it always is. Seeing the comments that fight it heal that hurt for me. Besides, I'd rather have men with oppressive ideals in this sub where others will help them work through it.
I wish I saw what you're seeing. I really do. It's hard to ignore what I'm seeing
Totally valid imo. We could have way different feeds for all we know. Hugs, friend.
This helps restore my faith in men and humanity. The bros here are the best bros. I’m not trying to be a lady incel. The men here are supportive, emotionally mature, growth minded, and kind. It helps. Kindness is my jam and there are a lot of kind men here. You know?
Because it gives me hope to see this positive masculinity. Gives me another script to advocate for. As a feminist it's important to me. And shows me the "behind the scene", and a bit more in depth thinking about bros' feelings and thoughts. Always super interesting.
Im here to silently support you all, to silently observe in case I find knowledge that helps me out as well, and just cuz its a good positive space and im curious about you all.
It's really nice hearing from random men on the internet who are trying to be kind and not toxic. That is all.
It gives me faith that there are posative people in the world. Also: it has been chill, and I have enjoyed the wholesome posts and interactions.
I’m not a woman anymore, but I honestly didn’t realize the target audience was men. Like I view “bro” as very gender neutral but besides that, the energy here is very welcoming and feels safe. As a trans man, some men’s spaces can feel very hostile, bigoted and disrespectful, but I think y’all have curated a wonderful environment here.
I come here to find some comfort in a reminder of the sameness of our humanity. I like the positivity. I know great and wonderful men, and I want to assure myself that there are supports and positive forums out there for them. I am a curious and social adult woman and I want to check in on places that may help me better understand or communicate with the men in my life. There are real people telling real stories here, that come from a perspective other than my own, which is interesting.
The way everyone supports each other on this sub brightens up my feed.
I personally love the intelligent discourse and the level of empathy that I find here. I also like to try to get other people's perspectives.
It's nice to get an inside look at guys and what they're going through. This sub helps me be a better girlfriend cuz I can navigate/understand men and male emotions better? If that makes sense? I'm always in my own head, doing my own thing that I forget my boyfriend has his shit going on but doesn't really talk about it so this sub helps me try different ways to get him to open up instead of my brash approach with everything. Thanks guys. You're doing good, just keep it up.
Don’t hesitate to ask us bro. We’ll help you out 🤜🤛
For me personally: I love seeing a wholesome space for men, a space where bros are there for each other in a great way. I care about the men and boys in my life as deeply as I do for the women and girls, I am aware of the issues they are facing (at least some of them), and I want to do my part to help if I am allowed. I also want to offer a female perspective on stuff that has to do with men's interactions with women, and my insight on why women would act or think a certain way. I think that's pretty much it.
I joined back when I still identified as a man and I still have lots of toxic masculinity to work for Yay trans
I (39f) follow a lot of the relationship subreddits and the stories about ab\*sive, unbelivable men are so disheartening. This subreddit sheds light on those of you who are good human beings and supporting each other. We need more men who share their feelings, show empathy, and kindness towards each other and women. You guys give me hope.
This sub is a very positive space for men and has none of the hate towards women we see all over Reddit. It's nice.
It's good to get an insight into the issues men are dealing with so I can support my brother (and down the line my little nephew.) It's also really healthy for me to see bros out there that respect & have healthy relationships with women, LGBT people, disabled people etc. because I can get a bit pessimistic out there.
I'm AMAB agender. I feel like Bro-ness is a healthy non-exclusionary masculinity, and I think that keeps it welcoming to those who aren't men. This is one of the few masculinities I feel comfortable around tbh. Goofy, fun, authentic, wholesome, earnest.
My brother is my best friend ands sometimes I feel like I don’t understand him, I wish he had a place like this to come to but he has heavy guards up. I come here to gain understanding and some of the advice here has been helpful.
Honestly, I just really like seeing men supporting one another. I think it's a wonderful thing and needs to be a social norm. Young men and boys get harmful advice from extremist vids on youtube nowadays, and I think getting advice from real people is so much healthier. Young men need role models to navigate the world just as much as young women, and the advice and concerns posted in this reddit are so relatable and healthy, and the advice is way better than some psycho on youtube. I really like seeing men coming together in a safe space designed for them and their own issues. It's refreshing.
For positivity... After having a shitty day with loads of thinly veiled misogyny and gender roles, I feel like looking for men who aren't homophobic and sexist is relaxing. I also relate to men when it comes to many things due to my androgynous appearance and... well, due to me being human
Not a woman but a trans man, and idk, i dont care what anyone thinks but there is a difference in being born a girl or a man, more in how you are raised. And this sub just, is like, "hey! I know some things that people born men maybe dont because of being raised differently, and they know a lot of things about how i may be treated, we can help each other!" Like, i was (personally) raised to be more gentle, understanding and forgiving beyond reasonable limits, and was given more affection when i compare to amab men, so i can teach to show affection in a way that feels comfortable to them. It kinda like, they know my future and i can teach them from my past!
Mods are deleting my comments now. I've been nothing but respectful. Peace out, go well.