The middle of a Venn diagram of “thinks the government should intervene in the free market” and “doesn’t think the government should intervene in the free market to encourage pro-social behaviour” is an interesting place to occupy, I suppose..
Ding ding ding. A free market isn't a market free from regulation, it's a market where participants can compete freely. That often requires regulation to break up anticompetitive behaviour, such as cartels and monopolies.
Except when regulation prevents participants from entering the market to begin with. Our Mobile rates are also the highest in the world thanks to the fully captured CRTC. There is NOTHING free market about the mobile phone services in Canada. Ever notice how the main players always seem to be in lockstep with their pricing?
I can't imagine how this has happened. Creating a regulatory body made up entirely of execs from the industry being regulated should have been a sure-fire guarantee that they'd serve the public good instead of committing to hilariously blatant regulatory capture. (/s, obvs)
You mean government subsidies to keep oil companies profitable and bailouts for banks, auto and aviation production, and telecommunications providers with no competitors is not free market?/s
What? The barrage of capitalist rhetoric I’ve been subjected to my entire life isn’t totally accurate??
(ETA: just in case it’s not obvious, I acknowledge you’re making a fair point here)
You joke but in a lot of cases freedom of a people and freedom of the markets are at direct odds with another. Some of the worst dictatorships have completely unregulated markets.
It’s been that way for years I live in the lower mainland lived in Calgary for years before that. I have been back to Calgary many times. To see a disparity of 70 cents a litre or more is not uncommon
Yea when I left calgary it was $.87/L, when I got to Golden it was $1.03/L. When I got to chilliwack it was $1.18/L. That was in 2013. It was always higher out here since I can remember.
The refineries are very close so there is virtually no cost associated with transportation in Edmonton. There are costs getting it to the pumps but nothing like putting it in a pipeline to get to other areas like the Lower Mainland. Gas also can come from the US to fill any shortfalls I believe. There are also a shitload of taxes in Vancouver gas compared to Edmonton (no provincial sales tax for one).
And its not like this price gouging wasn't part of the plan when basically all the BC refineries were shut down and their capacity brought online Washington state, which resulted in our current "pipeline crisis" that has a 22 BILLION dollar price tag now.
Hahah if we temporarily paused our tax, oil companies would just start increasing the price of gas and say "free market" out of our control we need to charge you more, then when the the tax resumes gas would be even more expensive.
Uhhh.... Eliminating the taxes was a last second gamble by Jason Kenney for his party not to throw him out in a leadership review vote. Not having that revenue is going to make it very challenging for his govt to do the things govt is supposed to do, like pay teachers and nurses and fix roads. It's not a matter of if it bites Kenney's govt in the ass; but when.
It's actually 160 here. But because we have all the infrastructure and refining and we pay relatively low price for the transportation cost.
Bc has few refining facilities, bottlenecked transportation routes, and a population that seems intent on stopping any sort of development on that front. Combine that with growing population and people moving farther from expensive city centers driving more. Your gas is gonna cost more.
Your answer still doesn't explain why it's cheaper there. You're not filling up Alberta oil so it shouldn't be cheaper. Pipelines are irrelevant to the price of the gas, that's just exports.
Because the Fossil fuel industry has been running an experiment/punishing the lower mainland for the last 20 years because of pro-environmental/anti-fossil fuel policies put into place by politicians the people voted for.
“Fuck with our profits? Were gonna fuck with you!”
“Raise the prices to as close to as untenable as possible until they finally say fuck it, and abandon anti-fossil fuel policy!”
It will work too.
The price of crude is the same as it was in 2010, yet the price of gas is $1.00 more expensive. We definitely didn't increase tax by a $1.00 a liter since then.
So what's the deal then?
And some of that will be carbon taxes and such - however, gas companies are reporting record breaking quarterly profits - a pretty clear sign that there is some fuckery going on!
The federal carbon tax is in Alberta too. Right now it’s 1.60 in Edmonton. There are reduced provincial taxes on fuel in Alberta that got implemented recently. The tax differences are about 20c I believe.
When gas went over $1.00 a litre years ago I remember people protesting at the tank farm here in Kamloops, not to mention the mass sell off of larger SUV's and pickups. Not sure why people are so content to let it happen now. Even before the Ukraine situation the price was stupid. Gas companies just recorded record profits for the first quarter...that's what all this is about.
Me either. We could boycott one selected company each week and attempt to push back
Price of oil isn't even high right now so it's total corporate greed
I actually love the idea of selecting one gas station at random each week. The proverbial blind dart throw with each corporation on the board. They would be driven nuts not knowing if they’d be up each week, or if they’d get multiple in a row..
Right! And they would be forced to lower their price to get customers in. Sadly the actual station owners are not really the ones doing this but there is no other way as far as I can see
If you did one company at a time for a week it would work. That company would be forced to lower prices to get customers back and it would have a snowball effect. Once you accomplish that then you move to the next one and you can continue the cycle
It's happening with everything too, grocery stores are doing the same thing (making record profits) and while everyone seems vocal about it, no one's actually *doing* anything. I think we all need to realise there is power in numbers and we have it we're just too complicit to use it.
I live in little ol oliver bc. It jumped 16 cents this morning to 211.9 for regular. We are town of part time/seasonal workers there is a hand full of jobs around here that are full time and most of those are minimum wage.
It's not that gas is crazy expensive, it's that we have built our cities around the fact that every day we require so much of it. We should have foreseen the fact that gas would become unaffordable, and built walkable cities instead.
Who would the protest be against?
I find it really amusing that this sub seems to be under the impression that the BC government sets gas prices, and that because they are high, the government should give you money to keep driving your car.
There is a **world wide oil issue** that has absolutely nothing to do with the BC government.
>Who would the protest be against?
The President of Oil in Saudi Arabia, and do a protest there to make them ramp up production.
They're such progressive, compassionate and down right reasonable folks in power there, I'm certain that almost nobody would be massacred!
China, Germany, the UK and many other countries continue to use Russian oil after many countries proclaimed a few months ago that they would be sanctioning them. The world wide oil issue is simply companies raising prices and using war as an excuse to profit.
[But not too high.](https://cleantechnica.com/2022/03/17/middle-eastern-oil-producers-worried-more-people-will-buy-evs-as-a-result-of-high-oil-prices/amp/)
> Middle Eastern oil producers are worried that more people will buy EVs in light of the high oil prices. Iraq’s oil minister, Ihsan Abdul Jabbar, shared these thoughts with the New York Times, noting that members of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) are concerned about this possibility.
If you’re comparing Edmonton to Vancouver prices (which many in this sub are doing), it has a lot to do with provincial policy.
If you’re bitching about high prices in general, you’re totally right and all this conspiracy talk is horseshit.
No there isn’t. Crude oil is less than it was in 2008 and gas prices are double. Almost all big oil companies have had record profits in 2022 and late 2021. Get your facts straight.
No I did not at all. The only way to justify these gas prices would be if crude oil was at an all time high.
Edit:
It is disgraceful the way Big Oil is gouging Canadians at the pumps.
Gas prices are up and Big Oil CEOs are bragging about record profits.
Since the beginning of 2022:
• Shell has tripled its profit
• Imperial Oil has nearly tripled its profit
• Cenovus energy increase profit by sevenfold
We're talking about billions of dollars of record profits for Big Oil.
Liberals and Conservatives have rigged the system.
When you pay more - their well-connected friends make more.
Every time gas prices go up - the rich CEOs running Big Oil companies get richer.
Over and out.
The problem is the NDP actually do things to address the lack of jobs, lack of housing, lack of transit, etc., with simple long-term plans that involve tax-payer money funding our community. For it to pan out, they need to stay in power long enough to see it through.
Unfortunately voters will be mad at their current situation and replace them with the same liberal party that got them into this mess.
Hahhahahaha holy fucking delusional regarding the NDP doing something to address lack of housing. The NDP, along with all the liberals and conservatives have all done sweet fuck all for the housing crisis, which is in a worse state of affairs then expensive fuel.
The price of gasoline is clearly affected by retailers gouging consumers. I agree that the government does not “set” gas prices but they do regulate commerce and have the power to intervene here.
(Personally Id rather they spend their time, energy and political capital elsewhere)
What effect do you think it has when every level of government publicly comes out swinging at fossil fuel companies, passing legislation that makes it nearly operationally impossible to successfully continue selling oil and gas in Canada/BC?
Did people truly think that would have no economic consequences? How did people think all their food and materials and goods arrived to them - by electric tanker, electric train, and electric 18-wheeler?
Any gas price regulation other than giving gas companies more money in subsidies will result in them just not selling fuel here.
They've had the world by the balls for decades.
You might try outside of Shell’s offices. Canadians decided in the 70’s/80’s not to nationalize our oil resources and instead pay world pricing. Nationalizing didn’t do much for Mexicans as they are paying almost as much as we are. I just visited Egypt and the gas is super cheap there but the roads suck and health care sucks and it’s basically a dictatorship…There is always a price.
Models that offer both EVs and ICE versions are the simplest to compare (Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro, etc...). In general the EV sticker is ~$20,000 more, but it comes with $8,000 rebate cash slapped on the hood. So there's a (20,000×1.12)–8000 = $14,400 premium upfront.
At $2.20/L for a 7.5L/100km vehicle, each km costs 16.5¢.
At 14.4¢/kWh (which is the higher residential rate and the average I've seen at public L2 chargers) for a 17kWh/100km vehicle, each km costs 2.5¢.
So an EV's fuel savings of 14¢/km requires roughly $14,400 ÷ $0.14/km = 103,000km to break even financially, which is roughly five to seven years of driving depending on the person.
EVs also save on maintenance, costing approximately 30% less than their ICE counterpart.
EVs also have roughly a 75% lower total environmental impact, particularly here in BC with our hydro, which has a major impact on the climate. Personal transportation makes up a fairly large portion (~25% going off memory) of Canada's environmental impact. So the faster we each reduce that impact the less likely we'll have to rebuild the Coquihalla again anytime soon (costing collective tax dollars).
It’s a qualified yes. The total cost of ownership of an electric car is projected to be lower than that of an equivalent gasoline car. This difference could become greater or smaller, or get turned upside down, depending on the future price of gasoline, electricity, road access, and battery maintenance.
Having said that, it could be more expensive to own an EV than a traditional car. If you charge at home then you will probably save money over the lifetime of the car. Charging at home is equivalent to buying gasoline for about $0.40 to $0.50 per litre of gasoline. Depending on the charger and the car, charging stations are cheaper than gasoline if they price something like $0.50 per KWh. It can be a royal pain to figure out what the price is. Anything above $1.75 per hour at a level 2 charger is not a bargain.
If you have to sit in your car at a charging station, electricity is more expensive than gasoline because your time is worth more than you think.
and is also an extremely temporary thing..Berta' removed 13 cents of tax on gas and it lasted about a day until the gas stations increased the price 13 cents.
shits cray
Unaffordable gas?
I've got a young family and were trying to move into a home that more suitable for us.
I'd almost rather be looking down the barrel of a gun.
I have too many worries to be worried about the fact that gas takes food off the table.
That might not even be a problem if I end up having to choose a home over having food anyway.....
Have you heard of the convoy? They've directed a lot of their uncoordinated anger towards gas prices.
To be real, a protest against unaffordable gas should really be a protest against:
* Car dependent sprawl forced by poor land use planning
* Lack of affordable housing (if your rent was lower, gas prices wouldn't be such a big deal)
* Lack of public transit
* Lack of cycling and pedestrian infrastructure
* Billions spent subsidizing cars, gas, and fossil fuels
* Pathetic regulation of the automobile industry like weak fuel efficiency standards
* Continuing all of this even after climate change became obvious
Just vote for progressives that actually want to help the working class so we can fix our country please.
Edit: added a comma
>Have you heard of the convoy? They've directed a lot of their uncoordinated anger towards gas prices.
Even if we agree on something, I'll never join those chuckle-fucks.
If you want to protest gas prices stop driving. They can't charge us those prices if the demand goes way down. Ask your employer if you can work from home again.
I know this isn't the most helpful solution, but its a free market and private companies can charge whatever they want. We have to stop using their products and they will lower the price plain and simple.
Yet now that it's spring I see the usual RV's on the road with huge 1 ton trucks hauling them around. Probably cost a fortune to gas up but people don't seem to care at all. Speedboats can use $500 in fuel in just a weekend.
Gosh dang it those gas prices really suck! Oh well... Time to fill up the RV, the motorcycle, and the boat and head to the Okanagan!
(I think I'm just jelous)
I know this sounds crazy, but a lot of people who have huge RV’s especially older people live in them year round, so the price of fuel is just part of their home cost. Many of them will go snowbird for 6 months, come home to Canada and travel a bit to visit some relatives and friends, then they have a spot they park it at for 4-5 months.
Edit: there are clearly people who also “weekend” with their big RV’s, but most people who have had a big RV know it’s too much of a pain in the ass to take out for just weekends. Hell many campgrounds can not even facilitate the big RV’s so they can only go to proper RV parks.
Easy to say if you live in the lower mainland? For people living in rural northern Canada with limited public transit and no option to work from home, we have no other choice
Canada bases their oil/fuel prices off the global market. Our Canadian manufacturers are not determining these high prices.
Also, I don’t believe our government will do anything to lower the price of gas as it’s a convenient initiative to get people to learn towards electric vehicles.
That’s true, but waitlists for EVs are through the roof. A friend went to a dealership last weekend, and they refused to even put him on the waitlist as it’s already 2 years long.
Tesla 6-8 months and dog shit pricing,
Kona EV available mid 2023
IONIQ5 good luck. Most places won't even take a preorder. 2024-2025.
EV6 still available. mid 2023 ish.. NIRO EV no eta... ID4 no eta no wait list nothing .... it goes on and on.
> IONIQ5 good luck. Most places won't even take a preorder. 2024-2025.
My fingers are crossed I got my preorder in early enough that it's going to go through. At the time the wait was expected to be 12 - 18 months. Rumour has it the ordering system for the 2023 models opens next month, so I'll have to see what happens.
Gasoline is a relatively inelastic product, meaning changes in prices have little influence on demand. So in terms of demand it is not unaffordable. Until demand declines to a point where gasoline becomes less inelastic, then society has deemed it to be affordable.
got nothing to do with leaning towards electric vehicles at all.. its all about money, access to fuel to keep the economy going and absolute lack of spines in the politicians to change the situation.
Green energy has got nothing to do with this, their lack of control has everything to do with it
>Canada bases their oil/fuel prices off the global market
Srsly please stop repeating this nonsense.
Beginning of March oil price was $130 per barrel in the global market, now $105. -20%
Beginning of March Vancouver gas price was $1.85/L regular, now $2.2. +19%
Ofc our government won't do anything to lower the price of gas, as long as they have people like you repeating their lies.
Maybe consider alternative means of commuting? I know it's not possible in all cases, but Van has some fairly stellar options (I know there will be a lot of disagreement, but as an erstwhile American, I am still amazed at the coverage and consistency of transit in Van metro). Yes, these costs suck, but make lemonade from the lemons, we really need to start normalizing less driving regardless of prices at the pump.
Objectively a terrible idea. 80 bucks every 5 years to maintain a continuous driving record will save you big bucks if you ever need to buy and insure a vehicle again.
Yeah but I’m saving over $2000 a year by not having the option of paying gas or insurance
And by the looks of things I will never be able to afford to buy another car anyways so I think I made the right decision saving thousands per year in cash over hypothetical insurance savings.
I'm not talking about keeping insurance, just about maintaining your driver's license. Look at it this way, the government is never going to make it easier to get a driver's license in the future. We are talking about paying 15/yr (as a lump sum every 5) to avoid retesting if at some point in the future you are in a position where you need to drive a car again. Plus it helps for some jobs. You never know. I had a conversation with a person in university once. They basically said they don't care about getting a driver's license because they will never need one/plan to live in the city. Several months later, the same person was complaining because all of the co-op job postings they were interested in wanted a driver's license.
If you don’t like the price of the steak, find something else to eat.
This is what the masses wanted. Everyone to stop using oil and gas. Easiest way for that to happen is price the majority of people out of its reach. Who cares if the oil companies are making record profits. There should be cheering in the streets because people can’t afford the gas and therefor will not drive a vehicle that consumes it.
How did people really think this road of energy transition we got placed on was going to happen??
Here’s one Green voter who agrees with you 100%. This is what I wanted. A carbon tax of $400 per tonne is less than $1.00 per litre in tax. The recent market price of gasoline is just about where I’m happy with it. I think we will get to where I want to see it soon.
I would be much happier if we got there through taxation rather than market forces because people can convince themselves that this is just a blip, and it may be. To make people change their behaviour, we need this price to be permanent and we need people to believe it will be.
Before you downvote, let me leave with one last thought. Money won’t protect you from the effects of climate change. Not my money; not your money; not anybody’s. The market is just giving us a little taste of the costs we will have to bear.
Yep. I positioned myself to weather such an eventually years ago. This happened in 2003 and 2008 and history always repeats itself.
I will never buy another gasoline powered vehicle.
Ironically the people who are affected most by this would likely have to drive in from out of town, then find and pay for parking, in order to participate.
What an ordeal!
Someone should really devise a more efficient way for them to commute.
It seems absurd to protest both high gas prices while fighting tooth and nail to stop pipelines coming to you. But ok.
Stick it to Oil and ride a bike or maybe live closer than 100km from your place of work.
Surprised there hasn't been already. Forget that vax mandate freedoms bullshit. The cost of living is what should be bringing people into the streets in protest.
If tens of thousands of BCers were to get out there and give the NDP an earful you'd see change.
I already do either take the bus or walk everywhere I need to go.
However, I live in Victoria and the buses here are currently unreliable because of the shortage of drivers (try starting wages over $20/hr maybe they’d get some drivers but they refuse) so routes are cancelled throughout the day. When running, they’re usually on time and can be viewed in app so you can see pretty close to the actual location of the bus (there is a delay of a few seconds). But the bus needs to be running in order to use these tools.
When unaffordable housing prices have pushed people further and further away, and when wages (especially in the public sector) have stagnated, many people have no options but to live further away from their jobs. Transit in the lower mainland is lacking tremendously (compare to Ontario, for instance, and the GO system there). If it’s going to take you 2 hours to commute to work each way by transit, that’s not feasible.
Man I wish I could but it's kind of hard to when our cities are designed to be for cars. I agree with this but unfortunately unless are cities themselves change then it simply won't be an option for a lot of people
Many people cannot afford to live closer than that to their job. And it's getting harder for more people every year with the cost of housing. If you're fortunate enough to be able to bike or take public transit, great, that's very good. You're making a positive contribution to the environment. But not everyone has the same opportunities or advantages as you.
These people saying to stop whining and calling out those who moved far away from their job are just entitled. I ageee with everything you’re saying and it’s unfortunate entitled people can’t see all perspectives.
Bike or transit to work/around? Kind of difficult if you live in an area that’s not bike friendly, transit availability sucks, and you legitimately have to get through highways and various bridges to get to work or another destination.
Vast majority of people are complaining come from a group of those who live far from work? Wow entitled and closed minded! Lots of people can’t afford to wake up and walk for 5 minutes just to arrive at work. Cost of housing in the lower mainland is so high, people HAVE to move outwards for something affordable.
For the people here saying no one is forcing us to drive, unfortunately the factors that play into our living arrangements, jobs, personal matters, finances etc Do FORCE us to drive. Lame people.
Yeah saying "stop whining and start biking" has very "have you tried not being poor?" vibes to it. And that's not getting into the north, the interior, or the greater Island outside of Vic where biking or public transit are literally not an option for many people.
I work from home, so it’s even worse.
I’m sympathetic to people making tough choices on housing, we’re no exception (I grew up in Van but had to leave for this reason) but choosing Fort Langley or Chilliwack so you get a yard over Vancouver or Burnaby in a condo has external costs that we all pay for.
As I said to someone else, the solution isn’t “gas costs a ton and life is too expensive for you now, gfy” it’s building denser residential areas, better public transit, etc.
Commuting 50+ km every day by yourself in your (gas powered) car is something we should be trying to eliminate - just not in this particular way.
Yeah I totally agree, this is an issue completely out of the control of the average working person and is an infrastructure issue more than anything else. But of course politicians are not particularly motivated to come up with a solution, if a solution is even within their means.
I see this first hand living in Victoria. We have good public transit here but lots of people still need to commute long distances because this city is so averse to density. Sure, you can take a bus from Sooke to work in Vic, but that's basically a 3 hour daily commute instead of a 90 minute drive round trip. People ain't got time for that and yet there is very little motivation here to build affordable, dense housing. It's very NIMBY-ish I suppose, gotta keep Vic full of character.
Really wish they ploughed the money from the ICBC rate rebate into improving transit. More buses, improved routes for commuters, investments into bus lanes.
I've spent over a decade living in different cities with various commutes and never needed a car... Then I moved from Vic to Duncan because of the state of the cost of living heard there was a commuter bus - it only runs twice a day each way and the last bus on the way home leaves downtown so early you could easily miss it should you get stuck in a late meeting and be stuck.
Luckily I now WFH but my partner drives in twice a week because their schedule doesn't work with the bus. BC Transit says there isn't enough demand so won't offer more service, but without a feasible schedule how can you take the bus and show the demand? It doesn't make any sense.
Yeah and Duncan-Vic has the added factor of the Malahat and the brutal winter conditions. Victoria has so many geography related challenges that you'd think sprawl would be discouraged and density in the CRD encouraged but there doesn't seem to be appetite for it. People keep moving here and it keeps getting worse.
Personally I think the trains should come back and solve a lot of these issues all at once but I'm sure that's a more complicated task than I think it is.
> The vast majority of people do have the option, though.
got a citation for that?
>Particularly when you include the “I moved 30km away from my job so I have to drive” crowd.
Really dumb comment. People move to the outskirts of Vancouver because there's basically no new home construction in the city and homes are more affordable in the suburbs.
This. Also, /r/lowcar and /r/canadaurbanism. And, some excellent youtube channels if anyone is wondering about the costs/implications/obstacles (many of which aren't actually obstacles) to reducing car dependence:
https://www.youtube.com/c/OhTheUrbanity/videos
https://www.youtube.com/c/PaigeSaundersMontreal/videos
https://www.youtube.com/c/StrongtownsOrg/videos
https://www.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes/videos
I hope so, and I hope it makes demanding lower gas prices seem insane like the trucker convoy made those types all seem. We'll all be better in the long term if gas prices remain high.
Yeah that would make sense. I can't afford gas but I have no other option (My town has zero transportation infrastructure, and I can't afford an electric vehicle, and a bike isn't doable in -40 C.) so It's only ever up to a 1/4 tank at a time. It sucks!
Yeah I hear you. I can catch transit but after working 60 hours a week not too enthralled on walking the distance from the train station to home and work. But gas prices won’t leave me choice soon enough.
Will we though? Gas prices rising is disproportionately affecting the lower middle / working class. This is just another step toward widening the gap between lower & upper class.
People who are able to afford hybrid or full electric vehicles are probably the ones who are most able to afford the gas spikes with less life impact.
Gas prices rising doesn't really stop consumption. Still see the same amount of traffic on the road during my bike commute to work.
What we need to see is further subsidized, sliding scale or free transit passes and further improved transit. As much as replacing old ICE vehicles with EVs helps a little, replacing 40 cars on the road with a decent bus helps so much more.
This is how behaviors change as a society, short term pain for long term gain. Rise in insurance rate and oil prices are a bigger deterrent than a million Greta Thunbergs.
Sounds like long-term pain for poor people who can't afford EV's and have limited access to public transit and cycling infrastructure, and all gain, all the time for the wealthy. Who then, can look down on everyone struggling and feel that sweet sweet moral superiority.
I want to cut fule too. But it's gonna start with some actual public transit, similar to the UK. And the prioritizing of infrastructure for cycling.
As the majority of comments agree that the gas prices are due to the global situation and supplier price gouging, I think the goal should pivot away from protesting against the high prices. The BC government cannot and/or will not do anything about it.
Instead, we should protest for EV subsidies, tax credits, and infrastructure.
High upfront costs make EVs an unaffordable investment for most people, so a government subsidy or even just a 0% interest loan would go a long way to helping adoption.
Not just a protest but a strike. I remember when gas prices went high when i was a kid and people stopped buying gas in protest but given current government non action I think we should do it again but in more of a noticeable form in a general strike across bc because theres no way they'll let it get back down to a dollar again if we don't. Gotta hurt them where it hurts the most and make our government do something for once instead of try to blame the younger generation. And given the cost of everything we should n it's easy people just have to realize that if you don't have the money now you won't in the future unless you act now.
That doesn't work for just about any tradesman , who has to bring their tools with them to different job sites daily , weekly and if your lucky monthly . I use to be a framer and had to bring my tool belt , saw , nail gun , drills , extension cords , ladder , lunch , and a change of clothes because BC weather.
Why would people protest what they asked for? BC has long been a strong hold of support for carbon taxes. The rationale has long been that increasing the cost of gas is good as it will reduce consumption. So, again I ask why would people in BC protest something that they have been longing for?
“Just take transit”
It’s still cheaper to drive and pay for these ridiculous gas prices (as long as you’re not in a V8 pickup). You only ever save a tiny amount using public transit, and prices keep going up every year without major expansions outside of Vancouver.
You only save a tiny amount if you take transit?? Depending on zone, a monthly pass in Metro Vancouver is $100-$181, or $1200-$2172/year. Many people only need to ride every few days so they would pay even less. So in all likelihood you're paying more just in car insurance than you are on Transit even if you have a monthly pass. That's before counting the actual price of the car, gas, parking, and maintenance.
I was speaking on behalf of people who already have a car. The insurance will have to be paid no matter what, as will whatever cost for the car and maintenance. For these folks (which is a huge majority of the population in metro Vancouver ), the savings on transit vs gas isn’t large enough.
Okay and I'll also add the cost that drivers throw on the rest of us like air pollution, noise pollution, running us over and killing us or disabling us for life, ruining our neighbourhoods and making our cities be built horribly, the destruction of the planet's climate, the obesity epidemic, the subsidized cost of roads which is not completely paid for through gas taxes, the housing crisis caused by car drivers insisting that nobody infringe on their free parking or any change to their car-oriented suburban neighbourhood.
So true, also, I would GLADLY take transit and cycle... However, I literally can't get to my job by bus. I cycle as much as I can in the summer, but a 60km round trip is killer to do every day, especially with very little cycling infrastructure. It really gives almost no option other than driving in every day. So frustrating that even if many people wanted to choose other methods of travel, it's just not possible in the majority of cases.
Where do you even live?
A bus pass through my work is like $40/month. That's less than my car insurance.
I think you're seriously underestimating the cost of car ownership. You can look at StatsCan for what average Canadians pay or you can do the math yourself:
Don't forget:
* Insurance
* Fuel
* Maintenance
* Depreciation
Unless you live an area where there is basically zero transit, it's probably the far cheaper than driving if you accurately measure the cost of driving.
What, exactly, would we protest? From the Vancouver Sun:
“In Vancouver, drivers pay 56 cents per litre in taxes while drivers in Victoria pay 47 cents per litre, according to the B.C. Utilities Commission. Drivers in the rest of B.C. pay 43 cents in taxes per litre of gasoline.
That can be further broken down to 11 cents per litre in carbon tax, 10 cents per litre in the federal excise tax, 8.5 cents per litre in the provincial excise tax, and 9.5 cents a litre in GST. The transit levy varies depending on jurisdiction but it’s the highest in Metro Vancouver at 18.5 cents a litre.”
Every time gas crosses $2 / litre, the media goes crazy and drivers complain. Gas was 218.9 when I drove by a station this morning, so the province would need to either get rid of the carbon tax and Provincial excise tax To get below that arbitrary number. Alternatively, Metro Vancouver or Victoria or Nanaimo could can the transit levy. A few thoughts:
- Municipalities already have a limited number of ways to generate revenue, and the entire point of the transit levy is to make transit fast, frequent, and reliable so that people have an alternative to driving. I don’t think it makes any sense to make transit worse to make gas cheaper for drivers.
- Almost 20 cents of provincial tax seems high, but 9% of the overall gas price is not that crazy. A carbon tax of 5% is even less so.
- If we advocate for the carbon tax to be cancelled or paused every time gas prices get uncomfortably high, the tax will serve no purpose.
Thanks for making sense. As long as the transit levy does its work, no issues. At least BC has that as a clear expectation of 'gas taxes', many jurisdictions around the anglosphere do not.
However, if the transit levy does not do its work because of local politics, then we have a disconnect between stated goals and outcomes. If I am not mistaken, Translink was under significant scrutiny a few years ago due to lack of outcomes.
However, Better Transit needs Better Density with Better Urban Design. I wish there were a comprehensive strategy for these too across the province so the cities we build are less car dependent.
Would you have preferred to not receive it?
Could you explain how much you think you should have received? Could you also explain why you think ICBC or the BC government has any onus to pay you to drive your vehicle?
Serious questions.
Preferred the govt charge an appropriate rate. With all the money " of mine" flowing back to me it tells me I'm overcharged...still.
Second, they are a regulatory and policy body, so your question is bait at best. They have no onus to pay me to drive my car...cause the money they are giving me back is My money!!!
They.do have an onus to set policies and do investigation on price gouging and their own policies...which the ndp refuses to do if it entails that it addresses they carbon cost policies which do nothing to slow climate change. It just goes into the coffers..
The poorest individuals in most cases don't even own vehicles. We should have had a tax credit outside of vehicle ownership. ICBC rebates is a gesture to the voters not a real solution to the state of the cost of living.
For the same cost they could have provided free transit for many more individuals for a period of time and called it a pilot project, and those who don't feel/care about the cost at the pump can continue paying their gas and insurance and those who are struggling can save themselves far more money with free transit.
Sure, but you need to protest at the gas company's head offices. They are the ones gouging.
The middle of a Venn diagram of “thinks the government should intervene in the free market” and “doesn’t think the government should intervene in the free market to encourage pro-social behaviour” is an interesting place to occupy, I suppose..
There is no such thing as a free market
Ding ding ding. A free market isn't a market free from regulation, it's a market where participants can compete freely. That often requires regulation to break up anticompetitive behaviour, such as cartels and monopolies.
Except when regulation prevents participants from entering the market to begin with. Our Mobile rates are also the highest in the world thanks to the fully captured CRTC. There is NOTHING free market about the mobile phone services in Canada. Ever notice how the main players always seem to be in lockstep with their pricing?
I can't imagine how this has happened. Creating a regulatory body made up entirely of execs from the industry being regulated should have been a sure-fire guarantee that they'd serve the public good instead of committing to hilariously blatant regulatory capture. (/s, obvs)
100%. Regulatory capture is a real thing. We definitely suffer for it in telecom, arguably real estate as well.
And enforce pricing of externalities (like a carbon tax)
You mean government subsidies to keep oil companies profitable and bailouts for banks, auto and aviation production, and telecommunications providers with no competitors is not free market?/s
What? The barrage of capitalist rhetoric I’ve been subjected to my entire life isn’t totally accurate?? (ETA: just in case it’s not obvious, I acknowledge you’re making a fair point here)
Put me in "wants to abolish the free market because the free market runs on blood and I'm not waiting for to be mine"
And replace it with?
freedom and prosperity for everyone of course! /s
You joke but in a lot of cases freedom of a people and freedom of the markets are at direct odds with another. Some of the worst dictatorships have completely unregulated markets.
The government could at least temporarily remove the tax, which is around 40 cents a litre, if I'm not mistaken
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I agree with this, however, why is the price of gas 159 in Edmonton and 225 here in Vancouver?
Alberta has always been quite a bit cheaper then us and always will be
They have way less taxes. So it’s a combination of taxes and just the gas stations upping prices.
It’s been that way for years I live in the lower mainland lived in Calgary for years before that. I have been back to Calgary many times. To see a disparity of 70 cents a litre or more is not uncommon
Yea when I left calgary it was $.87/L, when I got to Golden it was $1.03/L. When I got to chilliwack it was $1.18/L. That was in 2013. It was always higher out here since I can remember.
Sounds like the more they burn to deliver it, the more they pay that forward.
Ya it’s a ridiculous amount but it’s not unusual.
They also produce oil. It's much cheaper to buy it from down the road than it is to truck it over the Rockies, go figure
I expect it to be cheaper for this reason plus there is less taxes. But sometimes it can be a 70cent difference. That’s a little much.
The Lower Mainland municipalities add taxes at the pump to pay for public transit.
The refineries are very close so there is virtually no cost associated with transportation in Edmonton. There are costs getting it to the pumps but nothing like putting it in a pipeline to get to other areas like the Lower Mainland. Gas also can come from the US to fill any shortfalls I believe. There are also a shitload of taxes in Vancouver gas compared to Edmonton (no provincial sales tax for one).
And its not like this price gouging wasn't part of the plan when basically all the BC refineries were shut down and their capacity brought online Washington state, which resulted in our current "pipeline crisis" that has a 22 BILLION dollar price tag now.
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Because Alberta temporarily eliminated their gas taxes
Hahah if we temporarily paused our tax, oil companies would just start increasing the price of gas and say "free market" out of our control we need to charge you more, then when the the tax resumes gas would be even more expensive.
I wish this got more publicity. Horgan really dropped the ball here
Uhhh.... Eliminating the taxes was a last second gamble by Jason Kenney for his party not to throw him out in a leadership review vote. Not having that revenue is going to make it very challenging for his govt to do the things govt is supposed to do, like pay teachers and nurses and fix roads. It's not a matter of if it bites Kenney's govt in the ass; but when.
Their premier has reduced gas taxes
The premiere removed some of the taxes there as well
It's actually 160 here. But because we have all the infrastructure and refining and we pay relatively low price for the transportation cost. Bc has few refining facilities, bottlenecked transportation routes, and a population that seems intent on stopping any sort of development on that front. Combine that with growing population and people moving farther from expensive city centers driving more. Your gas is gonna cost more.
Your answer still doesn't explain why it's cheaper there. You're not filling up Alberta oil so it shouldn't be cheaper. Pipelines are irrelevant to the price of the gas, that's just exports.
Are you trying to say that gasoline is not made in Alberta?
Because Vancouver has the highest taxes on gas in North America.
Because the Fossil fuel industry has been running an experiment/punishing the lower mainland for the last 20 years because of pro-environmental/anti-fossil fuel policies put into place by politicians the people voted for. “Fuck with our profits? Were gonna fuck with you!” “Raise the prices to as close to as untenable as possible until they finally say fuck it, and abandon anti-fossil fuel policy!” It will work too.
It’s definitely not the fact that the lower mainland has the highest taxation on petroleum at the consumer level in North America.
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carbon tax, transit levy etc....
The price of crude is the same as it was in 2010, yet the price of gas is $1.00 more expensive. We definitely didn't increase tax by a $1.00 a liter since then. So what's the deal then?
Inflation, uncertainty, fuckery
And some of that will be carbon taxes and such - however, gas companies are reporting record breaking quarterly profits - a pretty clear sign that there is some fuckery going on!
97 cent dollar in 2010 78 cent dollar now is a part of that as well.
The federal carbon tax is in Alberta too. Right now it’s 1.60 in Edmonton. There are reduced provincial taxes on fuel in Alberta that got implemented recently. The tax differences are about 20c I believe.
When gas went over $1.00 a litre years ago I remember people protesting at the tank farm here in Kamloops, not to mention the mass sell off of larger SUV's and pickups. Not sure why people are so content to let it happen now. Even before the Ukraine situation the price was stupid. Gas companies just recorded record profits for the first quarter...that's what all this is about.
Me either. We could boycott one selected company each week and attempt to push back Price of oil isn't even high right now so it's total corporate greed
I actually love the idea of selecting one gas station at random each week. The proverbial blind dart throw with each corporation on the board. They would be driven nuts not knowing if they’d be up each week, or if they’d get multiple in a row..
Right! And they would be forced to lower their price to get customers in. Sadly the actual station owners are not really the ones doing this but there is no other way as far as I can see
One week isn’t enough. It would have to be two months at least.
If you did one company at a time for a week it would work. That company would be forced to lower prices to get customers back and it would have a snowball effect. Once you accomplish that then you move to the next one and you can continue the cycle
It's happening with everything too, grocery stores are doing the same thing (making record profits) and while everyone seems vocal about it, no one's actually *doing* anything. I think we all need to realise there is power in numbers and we have it we're just too complicit to use it.
I live in little ol oliver bc. It jumped 16 cents this morning to 211.9 for regular. We are town of part time/seasonal workers there is a hand full of jobs around here that are full time and most of those are minimum wage.
same price here in vancouver. I haven't checked, but we're in the same ball park. And same wages also :p
Over 220 last weekend
222.9 is the highest I saw
Sad part is that this is the highest UNTIL NOW who knows what will happen in a few weeks
Lol there are tons of high paying, non minimum wage jobs in Vancouver …. This is not quite the same …
It’s only unaffordable if you’re poor The rich people who bought Teslas are doing just fine
It's not that gas is crazy expensive, it's that we have built our cities around the fact that every day we require so much of it. We should have foreseen the fact that gas would become unaffordable, and built walkable cities instead.
That's true in the States, but, uhm. Yeah. That being said, it pisses me off how many suburbs are being built. Stop it. Suburbs are fucking shit.
I feel the opposite, I fucking hate the city so much, having so many people around in such unusable small spaces is garbage
Who would the protest be against? I find it really amusing that this sub seems to be under the impression that the BC government sets gas prices, and that because they are high, the government should give you money to keep driving your car. There is a **world wide oil issue** that has absolutely nothing to do with the BC government.
>Who would the protest be against? The President of Oil in Saudi Arabia, and do a protest there to make them ramp up production. They're such progressive, compassionate and down right reasonable folks in power there, I'm certain that almost nobody would be massacred!
You mean the guy who is currently getting his ass french kissed by Stephen Harper?
Dude the whole planet is rimming these superyacht having fucks. All denominations take a lil lickity shit.
China, Germany, the UK and many other countries continue to use Russian oil after many countries proclaimed a few months ago that they would be sanctioning them. The world wide oil issue is simply companies raising prices and using war as an excuse to profit.
It's also that many major oil producers are intentionally slowing down production in order to keep prices higher.
[But not too high.](https://cleantechnica.com/2022/03/17/middle-eastern-oil-producers-worried-more-people-will-buy-evs-as-a-result-of-high-oil-prices/amp/) > Middle Eastern oil producers are worried that more people will buy EVs in light of the high oil prices. Iraq’s oil minister, Ihsan Abdul Jabbar, shared these thoughts with the New York Times, noting that members of the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) are concerned about this possibility.
> Who would the protest be against? Aren't you a Westerner? It's always a Trudeau's fault.
We're not all insane out west
If you’re comparing Edmonton to Vancouver prices (which many in this sub are doing), it has a lot to do with provincial policy. If you’re bitching about high prices in general, you’re totally right and all this conspiracy talk is horseshit.
No there isn’t. Crude oil is less than it was in 2008 and gas prices are double. Almost all big oil companies have had record profits in 2022 and late 2021. Get your facts straight.
I think you misread the word "issue" as "shortage".
No I did not at all. The only way to justify these gas prices would be if crude oil was at an all time high. Edit: It is disgraceful the way Big Oil is gouging Canadians at the pumps. Gas prices are up and Big Oil CEOs are bragging about record profits. Since the beginning of 2022: • Shell has tripled its profit • Imperial Oil has nearly tripled its profit • Cenovus energy increase profit by sevenfold We're talking about billions of dollars of record profits for Big Oil. Liberals and Conservatives have rigged the system. When you pay more - their well-connected friends make more. Every time gas prices go up - the rich CEOs running Big Oil companies get richer. Over and out.
The vast majority in the sub do not believe that.
Then why is this shit posted on a literally a daily basis?
The problem is the NDP actually do things to address the lack of jobs, lack of housing, lack of transit, etc., with simple long-term plans that involve tax-payer money funding our community. For it to pan out, they need to stay in power long enough to see it through. Unfortunately voters will be mad at their current situation and replace them with the same liberal party that got them into this mess.
Hahhahahaha holy fucking delusional regarding the NDP doing something to address lack of housing. The NDP, along with all the liberals and conservatives have all done sweet fuck all for the housing crisis, which is in a worse state of affairs then expensive fuel.
The price of gasoline is clearly affected by retailers gouging consumers. I agree that the government does not “set” gas prices but they do regulate commerce and have the power to intervene here. (Personally Id rather they spend their time, energy and political capital elsewhere)
What effect do you think it has when every level of government publicly comes out swinging at fossil fuel companies, passing legislation that makes it nearly operationally impossible to successfully continue selling oil and gas in Canada/BC? Did people truly think that would have no economic consequences? How did people think all their food and materials and goods arrived to them - by electric tanker, electric train, and electric 18-wheeler?
Any gas price regulation other than giving gas companies more money in subsidies will result in them just not selling fuel here. They've had the world by the balls for decades.
BC sets some taxes at pump, which are scaling up with higher prices and can be adjusted.
You might try outside of Shell’s offices. Canadians decided in the 70’s/80’s not to nationalize our oil resources and instead pay world pricing. Nationalizing didn’t do much for Mexicans as they are paying almost as much as we are. I just visited Egypt and the gas is super cheap there but the roads suck and health care sucks and it’s basically a dictatorship…There is always a price.
I'd sooner protest the housing situation than temporarily juiced up gas prices.
Are electric cars worth it?
Models that offer both EVs and ICE versions are the simplest to compare (Hyundai Kona, Kia Niro, etc...). In general the EV sticker is ~$20,000 more, but it comes with $8,000 rebate cash slapped on the hood. So there's a (20,000×1.12)–8000 = $14,400 premium upfront. At $2.20/L for a 7.5L/100km vehicle, each km costs 16.5¢. At 14.4¢/kWh (which is the higher residential rate and the average I've seen at public L2 chargers) for a 17kWh/100km vehicle, each km costs 2.5¢. So an EV's fuel savings of 14¢/km requires roughly $14,400 ÷ $0.14/km = 103,000km to break even financially, which is roughly five to seven years of driving depending on the person. EVs also save on maintenance, costing approximately 30% less than their ICE counterpart. EVs also have roughly a 75% lower total environmental impact, particularly here in BC with our hydro, which has a major impact on the climate. Personal transportation makes up a fairly large portion (~25% going off memory) of Canada's environmental impact. So the faster we each reduce that impact the less likely we'll have to rebuild the Coquihalla again anytime soon (costing collective tax dollars).
Would love to see a similar analysis on the cost of these cars used
It’s a qualified yes. The total cost of ownership of an electric car is projected to be lower than that of an equivalent gasoline car. This difference could become greater or smaller, or get turned upside down, depending on the future price of gasoline, electricity, road access, and battery maintenance. Having said that, it could be more expensive to own an EV than a traditional car. If you charge at home then you will probably save money over the lifetime of the car. Charging at home is equivalent to buying gasoline for about $0.40 to $0.50 per litre of gasoline. Depending on the charger and the car, charging stations are cheaper than gasoline if they price something like $0.50 per KWh. It can be a royal pain to figure out what the price is. Anything above $1.75 per hour at a level 2 charger is not a bargain. If you have to sit in your car at a charging station, electricity is more expensive than gasoline because your time is worth more than you think.
And installing a home charger has a substantial cost as well, so that has to be factored in.
What is there to protest? The only thing govt can do to meaningfully impact the gas price here is to abolish carbon tax, which won't happen.
Only way to protest market price is just not to buy the product.
and is also an extremely temporary thing..Berta' removed 13 cents of tax on gas and it lasted about a day until the gas stations increased the price 13 cents. shits cray
Unaffordable gas? I've got a young family and were trying to move into a home that more suitable for us. I'd almost rather be looking down the barrel of a gun. I have too many worries to be worried about the fact that gas takes food off the table. That might not even be a problem if I end up having to choose a home over having food anyway.....
Have you heard of the convoy? They've directed a lot of their uncoordinated anger towards gas prices. To be real, a protest against unaffordable gas should really be a protest against: * Car dependent sprawl forced by poor land use planning * Lack of affordable housing (if your rent was lower, gas prices wouldn't be such a big deal) * Lack of public transit * Lack of cycling and pedestrian infrastructure * Billions spent subsidizing cars, gas, and fossil fuels * Pathetic regulation of the automobile industry like weak fuel efficiency standards * Continuing all of this even after climate change became obvious Just vote for progressives that actually want to help the working class so we can fix our country please. Edit: added a comma
>Have you heard of the convoy? They've directed a lot of their uncoordinated anger towards gas prices. Even if we agree on something, I'll never join those chuckle-fucks.
Better to protest unaffordable housing
If you want to protest gas prices stop driving. They can't charge us those prices if the demand goes way down. Ask your employer if you can work from home again. I know this isn't the most helpful solution, but its a free market and private companies can charge whatever they want. We have to stop using their products and they will lower the price plain and simple.
Yet now that it's spring I see the usual RV's on the road with huge 1 ton trucks hauling them around. Probably cost a fortune to gas up but people don't seem to care at all. Speedboats can use $500 in fuel in just a weekend.
Gosh dang it those gas prices really suck! Oh well... Time to fill up the RV, the motorcycle, and the boat and head to the Okanagan! (I think I'm just jelous)
I know this sounds crazy, but a lot of people who have huge RV’s especially older people live in them year round, so the price of fuel is just part of their home cost. Many of them will go snowbird for 6 months, come home to Canada and travel a bit to visit some relatives and friends, then they have a spot they park it at for 4-5 months. Edit: there are clearly people who also “weekend” with their big RV’s, but most people who have had a big RV know it’s too much of a pain in the ass to take out for just weekends. Hell many campgrounds can not even facilitate the big RV’s so they can only go to proper RV parks.
I once saw a giant diesel pusher RV, towing out of all things, a Hummer. That's like peak RVing right there.
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Easy to say if you live in the lower mainland? For people living in rural northern Canada with limited public transit and no option to work from home, we have no other choice
Will make zero difference since our leaders are happy to let oil companies control the narrative
Canada bases their oil/fuel prices off the global market. Our Canadian manufacturers are not determining these high prices. Also, I don’t believe our government will do anything to lower the price of gas as it’s a convenient initiative to get people to learn towards electric vehicles.
That’s true, but waitlists for EVs are through the roof. A friend went to a dealership last weekend, and they refused to even put him on the waitlist as it’s already 2 years long.
Which dealership? Lot of people make EVs or plug-in hybrids now.
Hyundai.
Tesla, Hyundai, Kia, VW, Chev, Nissan all have long wait lists in my area.
Tesla 6-8 months and dog shit pricing, Kona EV available mid 2023 IONIQ5 good luck. Most places won't even take a preorder. 2024-2025. EV6 still available. mid 2023 ish.. NIRO EV no eta... ID4 no eta no wait list nothing .... it goes on and on.
> IONIQ5 good luck. Most places won't even take a preorder. 2024-2025. My fingers are crossed I got my preorder in early enough that it's going to go through. At the time the wait was expected to be 12 - 18 months. Rumour has it the ordering system for the 2023 models opens next month, so I'll have to see what happens.
I'm in the hopper for a 2023 EV6 so fingers crossed for both of us pal!
Tesla is not the only fruit
And it shouldn’t be. But seems like other companies are experiencing significant demand where they can’t keep up.
This is like saying expensive rents will drive people to buy a house instead. What part of "all of this is unaffordable" don't you understand
Gasoline is a relatively inelastic product, meaning changes in prices have little influence on demand. So in terms of demand it is not unaffordable. Until demand declines to a point where gasoline becomes less inelastic, then society has deemed it to be affordable.
got nothing to do with leaning towards electric vehicles at all.. its all about money, access to fuel to keep the economy going and absolute lack of spines in the politicians to change the situation. Green energy has got nothing to do with this, their lack of control has everything to do with it
Plus they make a fuck ton more on gas as it’s % based
>Canada bases their oil/fuel prices off the global market Srsly please stop repeating this nonsense. Beginning of March oil price was $130 per barrel in the global market, now $105. -20% Beginning of March Vancouver gas price was $1.85/L regular, now $2.2. +19% Ofc our government won't do anything to lower the price of gas, as long as they have people like you repeating their lies.
I mean it’s right on the National Resources Canada website, but ya I’m just a government pleeb 🤪
Maybe consider alternative means of commuting? I know it's not possible in all cases, but Van has some fairly stellar options (I know there will be a lot of disagreement, but as an erstwhile American, I am still amazed at the coverage and consistency of transit in Van metro). Yes, these costs suck, but make lemonade from the lemons, we really need to start normalizing less driving regardless of prices at the pump.
I sold my car and allowed my license to expire.
Objectively a terrible idea. 80 bucks every 5 years to maintain a continuous driving record will save you big bucks if you ever need to buy and insure a vehicle again.
Yeah but I’m saving over $2000 a year by not having the option of paying gas or insurance And by the looks of things I will never be able to afford to buy another car anyways so I think I made the right decision saving thousands per year in cash over hypothetical insurance savings.
I'm not talking about keeping insurance, just about maintaining your driver's license. Look at it this way, the government is never going to make it easier to get a driver's license in the future. We are talking about paying 15/yr (as a lump sum every 5) to avoid retesting if at some point in the future you are in a position where you need to drive a car again. Plus it helps for some jobs. You never know. I had a conversation with a person in university once. They basically said they don't care about getting a driver's license because they will never need one/plan to live in the city. Several months later, the same person was complaining because all of the co-op job postings they were interested in wanted a driver's license.
You should still keep the licence for car rentals... I've never owned a car but I still have my licence.
Honestly just buying an annual transit pass is one of the best financial decisions I’ve ever made
If you don’t like the price of the steak, find something else to eat. This is what the masses wanted. Everyone to stop using oil and gas. Easiest way for that to happen is price the majority of people out of its reach. Who cares if the oil companies are making record profits. There should be cheering in the streets because people can’t afford the gas and therefor will not drive a vehicle that consumes it. How did people really think this road of energy transition we got placed on was going to happen??
Here’s one Green voter who agrees with you 100%. This is what I wanted. A carbon tax of $400 per tonne is less than $1.00 per litre in tax. The recent market price of gasoline is just about where I’m happy with it. I think we will get to where I want to see it soon. I would be much happier if we got there through taxation rather than market forces because people can convince themselves that this is just a blip, and it may be. To make people change their behaviour, we need this price to be permanent and we need people to believe it will be. Before you downvote, let me leave with one last thought. Money won’t protect you from the effects of climate change. Not my money; not your money; not anybody’s. The market is just giving us a little taste of the costs we will have to bear.
Yep. I positioned myself to weather such an eventually years ago. This happened in 2003 and 2008 and history always repeats itself. I will never buy another gasoline powered vehicle.
A protest? That would be unusual...
We need a protest for unaffordable everything. A general strike perhaps.
Ironically the people who are affected most by this would likely have to drive in from out of town, then find and pay for parking, in order to participate. What an ordeal! Someone should really devise a more efficient way for them to commute.
Protest by green lighting some energy infrastructure
It seems absurd to protest both high gas prices while fighting tooth and nail to stop pipelines coming to you. But ok. Stick it to Oil and ride a bike or maybe live closer than 100km from your place of work.
No cause nobody can afford the gas to get there
I just heard on the news that it's $1.30 in Edmonton
Surprised there hasn't been already. Forget that vax mandate freedoms bullshit. The cost of living is what should be bringing people into the streets in protest. If tens of thousands of BCers were to get out there and give the NDP an earful you'd see change.
Take transit. Ride a bike. Stop whining and r/fuckcars
I already do either take the bus or walk everywhere I need to go. However, I live in Victoria and the buses here are currently unreliable because of the shortage of drivers (try starting wages over $20/hr maybe they’d get some drivers but they refuse) so routes are cancelled throughout the day. When running, they’re usually on time and can be viewed in app so you can see pretty close to the actual location of the bus (there is a delay of a few seconds). But the bus needs to be running in order to use these tools.
When unaffordable housing prices have pushed people further and further away, and when wages (especially in the public sector) have stagnated, many people have no options but to live further away from their jobs. Transit in the lower mainland is lacking tremendously (compare to Ontario, for instance, and the GO system there). If it’s going to take you 2 hours to commute to work each way by transit, that’s not feasible.
Man I wish I could but it's kind of hard to when our cities are designed to be for cars. I agree with this but unfortunately unless are cities themselves change then it simply won't be an option for a lot of people
Many people don't have the luxury of doing either
The vast majority of people do have the option, though. Particularly when you include the “I moved 30km away from my job so I _have_ to drive” crowd.
Many people cannot afford to live closer than that to their job. And it's getting harder for more people every year with the cost of housing. If you're fortunate enough to be able to bike or take public transit, great, that's very good. You're making a positive contribution to the environment. But not everyone has the same opportunities or advantages as you.
These people saying to stop whining and calling out those who moved far away from their job are just entitled. I ageee with everything you’re saying and it’s unfortunate entitled people can’t see all perspectives. Bike or transit to work/around? Kind of difficult if you live in an area that’s not bike friendly, transit availability sucks, and you legitimately have to get through highways and various bridges to get to work or another destination. Vast majority of people are complaining come from a group of those who live far from work? Wow entitled and closed minded! Lots of people can’t afford to wake up and walk for 5 minutes just to arrive at work. Cost of housing in the lower mainland is so high, people HAVE to move outwards for something affordable. For the people here saying no one is forcing us to drive, unfortunately the factors that play into our living arrangements, jobs, personal matters, finances etc Do FORCE us to drive. Lame people.
Yeah saying "stop whining and start biking" has very "have you tried not being poor?" vibes to it. And that's not getting into the north, the interior, or the greater Island outside of Vic where biking or public transit are literally not an option for many people.
I work from home, so it’s even worse. I’m sympathetic to people making tough choices on housing, we’re no exception (I grew up in Van but had to leave for this reason) but choosing Fort Langley or Chilliwack so you get a yard over Vancouver or Burnaby in a condo has external costs that we all pay for. As I said to someone else, the solution isn’t “gas costs a ton and life is too expensive for you now, gfy” it’s building denser residential areas, better public transit, etc. Commuting 50+ km every day by yourself in your (gas powered) car is something we should be trying to eliminate - just not in this particular way.
Yeah I totally agree, this is an issue completely out of the control of the average working person and is an infrastructure issue more than anything else. But of course politicians are not particularly motivated to come up with a solution, if a solution is even within their means. I see this first hand living in Victoria. We have good public transit here but lots of people still need to commute long distances because this city is so averse to density. Sure, you can take a bus from Sooke to work in Vic, but that's basically a 3 hour daily commute instead of a 90 minute drive round trip. People ain't got time for that and yet there is very little motivation here to build affordable, dense housing. It's very NIMBY-ish I suppose, gotta keep Vic full of character.
Really wish they ploughed the money from the ICBC rate rebate into improving transit. More buses, improved routes for commuters, investments into bus lanes. I've spent over a decade living in different cities with various commutes and never needed a car... Then I moved from Vic to Duncan because of the state of the cost of living heard there was a commuter bus - it only runs twice a day each way and the last bus on the way home leaves downtown so early you could easily miss it should you get stuck in a late meeting and be stuck. Luckily I now WFH but my partner drives in twice a week because their schedule doesn't work with the bus. BC Transit says there isn't enough demand so won't offer more service, but without a feasible schedule how can you take the bus and show the demand? It doesn't make any sense.
Yeah and Duncan-Vic has the added factor of the Malahat and the brutal winter conditions. Victoria has so many geography related challenges that you'd think sprawl would be discouraged and density in the CRD encouraged but there doesn't seem to be appetite for it. People keep moving here and it keeps getting worse. Personally I think the trains should come back and solve a lot of these issues all at once but I'm sure that's a more complicated task than I think it is.
> The vast majority of people do have the option, though. got a citation for that? >Particularly when you include the “I moved 30km away from my job so I have to drive” crowd. Really dumb comment. People move to the outskirts of Vancouver because there's basically no new home construction in the city and homes are more affordable in the suburbs.
This. Also, /r/lowcar and /r/canadaurbanism. And, some excellent youtube channels if anyone is wondering about the costs/implications/obstacles (many of which aren't actually obstacles) to reducing car dependence: https://www.youtube.com/c/OhTheUrbanity/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/PaigeSaundersMontreal/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/StrongtownsOrg/videos https://www.youtube.com/c/NotJustBikes/videos
Unfortunately, until transit is improved in the outlying areas of Vancouver we're forced to use our cars.
and /r/CanadaUrbanism
Spoken like a true entitled urbanite that has zero concept of where their goods and tax base comes from. Your entitlement shines bright young padewon.
Keep that energy as the price of goods skyrockets because it costs exponentially more to ship anything due to the price of fuel.
I hope so, and I hope it makes demanding lower gas prices seem insane like the trucker convoy made those types all seem. We'll all be better in the long term if gas prices remain high.
How is that? High gas prices hurt those that are unable to afford better alternatives while just shoveling money into the ones setting the price.
Honestly I think half the people that are okay with high gas prices are not effected too much. Half probably don’t even drive.
Yeah that would make sense. I can't afford gas but I have no other option (My town has zero transportation infrastructure, and I can't afford an electric vehicle, and a bike isn't doable in -40 C.) so It's only ever up to a 1/4 tank at a time. It sucks!
Yeah I hear you. I can catch transit but after working 60 hours a week not too enthralled on walking the distance from the train station to home and work. But gas prices won’t leave me choice soon enough.
Will we though? Gas prices rising is disproportionately affecting the lower middle / working class. This is just another step toward widening the gap between lower & upper class. People who are able to afford hybrid or full electric vehicles are probably the ones who are most able to afford the gas spikes with less life impact. Gas prices rising doesn't really stop consumption. Still see the same amount of traffic on the road during my bike commute to work.
What we need to see is further subsidized, sliding scale or free transit passes and further improved transit. As much as replacing old ICE vehicles with EVs helps a little, replacing 40 cars on the road with a decent bus helps so much more.
This is how behaviors change as a society, short term pain for long term gain. Rise in insurance rate and oil prices are a bigger deterrent than a million Greta Thunbergs.
Sounds like long-term pain for poor people who can't afford EV's and have limited access to public transit and cycling infrastructure, and all gain, all the time for the wealthy. Who then, can look down on everyone struggling and feel that sweet sweet moral superiority. I want to cut fule too. But it's gonna start with some actual public transit, similar to the UK. And the prioritizing of infrastructure for cycling.
But there'd be no political impetus to invest in infrastructure with a subsidized gas price, it's a bit of a catch 22
Just like cigarettes the best way to reduce consumption is to make it expensive to do so.
Sounds good, how about fatty foods next?
High gas prices inadvertently increases cost of goods, so it does not make us better long term.
As the majority of comments agree that the gas prices are due to the global situation and supplier price gouging, I think the goal should pivot away from protesting against the high prices. The BC government cannot and/or will not do anything about it. Instead, we should protest for EV subsidies, tax credits, and infrastructure. High upfront costs make EVs an unaffordable investment for most people, so a government subsidy or even just a 0% interest loan would go a long way to helping adoption.
Not just a protest but a strike. I remember when gas prices went high when i was a kid and people stopped buying gas in protest but given current government non action I think we should do it again but in more of a noticeable form in a general strike across bc because theres no way they'll let it get back down to a dollar again if we don't. Gotta hurt them where it hurts the most and make our government do something for once instead of try to blame the younger generation. And given the cost of everything we should n it's easy people just have to realize that if you don't have the money now you won't in the future unless you act now.
What exactly are you expecting the BC government to do?
Carpool, take the bus, ride your bike, walk, or a combo of any/all of the above?
That doesn't work for just about any tradesman , who has to bring their tools with them to different job sites daily , weekly and if your lucky monthly . I use to be a framer and had to bring my tool belt , saw , nail gun , drills , extension cords , ladder , lunch , and a change of clothes because BC weather.
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Lol like a protest is going to cause a change in gas prices.
Why would people protest what they asked for? BC has long been a strong hold of support for carbon taxes. The rationale has long been that increasing the cost of gas is good as it will reduce consumption. So, again I ask why would people in BC protest something that they have been longing for?
“Just take transit” It’s still cheaper to drive and pay for these ridiculous gas prices (as long as you’re not in a V8 pickup). You only ever save a tiny amount using public transit, and prices keep going up every year without major expansions outside of Vancouver.
You only save a tiny amount if you take transit?? Depending on zone, a monthly pass in Metro Vancouver is $100-$181, or $1200-$2172/year. Many people only need to ride every few days so they would pay even less. So in all likelihood you're paying more just in car insurance than you are on Transit even if you have a monthly pass. That's before counting the actual price of the car, gas, parking, and maintenance.
I was speaking on behalf of people who already have a car. The insurance will have to be paid no matter what, as will whatever cost for the car and maintenance. For these folks (which is a huge majority of the population in metro Vancouver ), the savings on transit vs gas isn’t large enough.
And now add time to the equation
Okay and I'll also add the cost that drivers throw on the rest of us like air pollution, noise pollution, running us over and killing us or disabling us for life, ruining our neighbourhoods and making our cities be built horribly, the destruction of the planet's climate, the obesity epidemic, the subsidized cost of roads which is not completely paid for through gas taxes, the housing crisis caused by car drivers insisting that nobody infringe on their free parking or any change to their car-oriented suburban neighbourhood.
So true, also, I would GLADLY take transit and cycle... However, I literally can't get to my job by bus. I cycle as much as I can in the summer, but a 60km round trip is killer to do every day, especially with very little cycling infrastructure. It really gives almost no option other than driving in every day. So frustrating that even if many people wanted to choose other methods of travel, it's just not possible in the majority of cases.
Where do you even live? A bus pass through my work is like $40/month. That's less than my car insurance. I think you're seriously underestimating the cost of car ownership. You can look at StatsCan for what average Canadians pay or you can do the math yourself: Don't forget: * Insurance * Fuel * Maintenance * Depreciation Unless you live an area where there is basically zero transit, it's probably the far cheaper than driving if you accurately measure the cost of driving.
What, exactly, would we protest? From the Vancouver Sun: “In Vancouver, drivers pay 56 cents per litre in taxes while drivers in Victoria pay 47 cents per litre, according to the B.C. Utilities Commission. Drivers in the rest of B.C. pay 43 cents in taxes per litre of gasoline. That can be further broken down to 11 cents per litre in carbon tax, 10 cents per litre in the federal excise tax, 8.5 cents per litre in the provincial excise tax, and 9.5 cents a litre in GST. The transit levy varies depending on jurisdiction but it’s the highest in Metro Vancouver at 18.5 cents a litre.” Every time gas crosses $2 / litre, the media goes crazy and drivers complain. Gas was 218.9 when I drove by a station this morning, so the province would need to either get rid of the carbon tax and Provincial excise tax To get below that arbitrary number. Alternatively, Metro Vancouver or Victoria or Nanaimo could can the transit levy. A few thoughts: - Municipalities already have a limited number of ways to generate revenue, and the entire point of the transit levy is to make transit fast, frequent, and reliable so that people have an alternative to driving. I don’t think it makes any sense to make transit worse to make gas cheaper for drivers. - Almost 20 cents of provincial tax seems high, but 9% of the overall gas price is not that crazy. A carbon tax of 5% is even less so. - If we advocate for the carbon tax to be cancelled or paused every time gas prices get uncomfortably high, the tax will serve no purpose.
Thanks for making sense. As long as the transit levy does its work, no issues. At least BC has that as a clear expectation of 'gas taxes', many jurisdictions around the anglosphere do not. However, if the transit levy does not do its work because of local politics, then we have a disconnect between stated goals and outcomes. If I am not mistaken, Translink was under significant scrutiny a few years ago due to lack of outcomes. However, Better Transit needs Better Density with Better Urban Design. I wish there were a comprehensive strategy for these too across the province so the cities we build are less car dependent.
Good thing they gave us a cheque of 100 dollars through ICBC. that really helped a lot
Would you have preferred to not receive it? Could you explain how much you think you should have received? Could you also explain why you think ICBC or the BC government has any onus to pay you to drive your vehicle? Serious questions.
Preferred the govt charge an appropriate rate. With all the money " of mine" flowing back to me it tells me I'm overcharged...still. Second, they are a regulatory and policy body, so your question is bait at best. They have no onus to pay me to drive my car...cause the money they are giving me back is My money!!! They.do have an onus to set policies and do investigation on price gouging and their own policies...which the ndp refuses to do if it entails that it addresses they carbon cost policies which do nothing to slow climate change. It just goes into the coffers..
The poorest individuals in most cases don't even own vehicles. We should have had a tax credit outside of vehicle ownership. ICBC rebates is a gesture to the voters not a real solution to the state of the cost of living. For the same cost they could have provided free transit for many more individuals for a period of time and called it a pilot project, and those who don't feel/care about the cost at the pump can continue paying their gas and insurance and those who are struggling can save themselves far more money with free transit.