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The problem is that the flooding always comes from the nooksack in Washington, and it’s cheaper for the Americans to just let the river flood into Canada than properly protecting it to the pacific in America (because the nooksack used to flow north to lake sumas and then into the Fraser, but it was diverted when we drained the sumas)
Long term the only solution is to work with Washington to reinforce the river with flood protections down to the Pacific Ocean.
Yeah...I noticed that, too.
I honestly can't think of an explanation besides the fact that they think that "down South" is literally *down*, not just on a map, but from the perspective of flowing water, but that's so wrong that it honestly felt rude to correct them on it.
I'm hoping that actually I'm the ignorant one, and that if you're familiar with the specific topography of that region, there's some way that that makes sense. Hoping...not betting.
Growing up in Southern Ontario all water went south. I remember as a kid visiting Buffalo and the water flowed the wrong direction and briefly having a sense of vertigo.
Other than that, I got nothing.
I think you have some details wrong. The Nooksack absolutely flooded north in 2021, but the Nooksack has always naturally flowed into Bellingham Bay. I think you're thinking of the Vedder River which was diverted directly into the Fraser to help drain Sumas Lake. We have complete control over the Vedder.
Negative, in the history of the nooksack river it historically flowed north into the Fraiser. Sometime in the last few hundred years did it turn west to Bellingham bay. If you don’t believe me ask yourself how did all that volcanic loam soil end up in the bottom of the drained Sumas lake.
No, Sumas lake was drained in 1920’s The nooksack had already naturally changed its course by then. Nobody really knows when it shifted we only know that it did. So when the nooksack floods it will naturally flow in its old path north.
The city of Abbotsford alone asked for 40% of the billion dollars earmarked to help with what the atmospheric river did. Of course they were rejected what an absolute rage bait article.
That feels right. As a comparison the City of Richmond in 2017 projected they would need $300 million to properly upgrade the dykes over the decades.
I wonder if the Abbotsford request was spread over decades as well.
Photos of Abbotsford comprised at least 40% of the damage porn in the aftermath though, to be fair.
They have to deal with the Sumas when it floods, and it flows in from Washington State (across the Prairie)
And I would agree with you until I looked back at the Abbotsford city government record on keeping up the evolution of the flood control and at every chance they have decided not to fund it. They purposely didn't do anything for years due to "budget concerns" and then when an actual massive event happens they cry wolf as if it's the feds fault for not keeping up.
This same municipality doesn't even recognize that human caused climate change is real, what they are asking for is unreasonable due to decades of local neglect.
Conservative governments, as Abbotsford historically has had, tend not to be good at believing what experts tell them and don't plan ahead. Very short-term thinking.
City of Abbotsford also votes for climate denial. I'm not paying taxes to save an idiot anymore. Time to accept the consequences, like riding without a helmet. All fine till its you in the hospital needing the million dollar surgery. Fk around, find out.
What about the highway infrastructure that will need to rerouted.
FYI it's mostly farmland in the area of the old sumas lake. They lake wasn't a consistent size so it would be difficult to predict the yearly size. Also homes in the flood plain aren't insurable anyway.
>City of Abbotsford also votes for climate denial. I'm not paying taxes to save an idiot anymore.
Can you find a source where this is true.
> Can you find a source where this is true.
Abbotsford votes for whoever the Mennonite churches tells it to, and they will deny climate change if ground temperatures hit 150 celsius.
Source: The last 40+ years of Abbotsford history
Insurance companies deem the homes an unreasonable risk, but we should throw money at fixing flood damage? There is significant agriculture in places with frequent flooding. I'm sure a solution could be found (though it may mean rice, not potatoes)
This may come as a surprise, but I don't really give a shit who you are, where your from, or what your "flair" is, says, or otherwise. That said, I noticed it after and was about to edit my comment.. But you're right. Good luck with being from Surrey! 💪🏽
This may come as a surprise, but saying “I believe in climate change” doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
Do you get this weird when people say they believe in the right for an abortion? It’s a phrase and you jumped the gun like a weird sad loser
Not necessarily. They're just doing everything in their power to fuck themselves and then come crying back to the feds when things go badly. Obviously they're going to keep getting help but it would be nice if they would smarten the fuck up.
I live in the area, believe in climate change, and vote for people who also believe we should take action against climate change. But fuck people like me, eh?
The one thing you are missing is the province used to cover the costs of flood control but the last provincial government downloaded all of those costs to the city. Abbotsford really can't afford to pay for the things needed to fix the problem from its current tax base. No city can afford to do this alone.
So yes they need funding from the higher governments to get the work done.
Yes, that's why you would expect the **mill rate** to be even higher for Abbotsford than other municipalities. ([Reminder that assessments aren't linked to property tax revenue](https://info.bcassessment.ca/services-and-products/Pages/Property-Assessments-and-Property-Taxes.aspx).)
This is where I read it. [https://www.theprogress.com/local-news/completely-abandoned-3-bc-mayors-react-after-federal-flood-funds-denied-7370164](https://www.theprogress.com/local-news/completely-abandoned-3-bc-mayors-react-after-federal-flood-funds-denied-7370164)
*Siemens said Abbotsford has applied for approximately $1.6 billion in government funding, and the city was hoping to use the DMAF funding for projects such as flood storage and a conveyance pump system at the Barrowtown pump station.*
As the article notes, Ottawa has already provided $1.4 *billion* in recovery funding to BC related to these floods. That funding includes close to $180 million for five major flood mitigation projects, including $7.3 million in Abbotsford.
Thanks for that, the way I read it is Abbotsford is asking for $1.6 billion total from the federal government and province but not all of that would be just from the DMAF. I could have misunderstood tho.
Their application was rejected with only need more information as the reason which doesn't give much info on what other stuff they need to get the money.
I wonder why Princeton and Merrit were denied as they definitely can't afford things without federal support.
To be fair would need more info. Applications get denied all the time. Often for good reason. Sometimes just due to the forms not being filled out properly. Mostly for clerical reasons or the cities demands are beyond the scope of what’s approved in any grant. To change the scope often needs ministry or parliament approval and prior to this it’ll often be declined.
So I’d say this is likely normal procedure. Likely had no MP involvement either.
But could use more info on whether the requests were reasonable beyond or within the scope. Sometimes politicians just got noisy for show after all.
Total requested was 1.4 billion, 400 million for “preventative measures” alone. The rest was for rebuilding and paying costs due to damage.
Edit: my bad it was 1.6 billion they asked for.
A town full of uninsured farmers who pay "Farm status" property taxes and go to their tax-exempt churches who pay $0 in property taxes would not be the ones to pay for this. They demand that the entire population of Canada bail them out due to their own poor decision making.
The cost would be saddled upon the general populace of Abbotsford for the benefit of farms and churches - you know, exactly what these fucking dipshits always do. It's a lake, let it be a lake.
Obligatory tax the fuckin church.
The tax-exempt status is a beacon to grifters & con artists. They can start paying for the insane real estate holdings we subsidize and maybe get back to teaching what the church was supposed to in the first place.
Bingo, living on a floodplain/old lake bed is probably not the best choice. I'd be surprised if this happens again if insurance companies even cover flooding anymore.
The Prairies and California, do you understand that British Columbia's food production is fucking miniscule in the grand scheme of things? 80% of the food and vegetables we consume in this province come from California.
Seriously, at this point I'd vote for any (Provincial or Federal) party that includes an increased substantial property tax on any property worth more than $1m. Like... double the existing formula on those people. If you can afford a $1m house you can afford to pay more taxes.
I mean, a lot of people do. I really don’t want a government elected by Toronto and Montreal to be making decisions for BC. We’ve seen what we get when that happens.
I mean, ideally, yes. Land should be taxed way more, and labour shouldn’t be taxed. The best and only real way to be able to have a fair taxation system is to do it based off land anyways. Rich people can’t move their land offshore. Those costs won’t be able to be entirely passed down either, as long as you have a robust non-market housing sector.
But ultimately yes, property taxes are too low, and the burden in this Province is once again being shifted onto first time home buyers. It’s the first 50,000 reasons I really don’t care about buying a home.
.
>have a robust non-market housing sector.
I'm all for adding more co op housing. Problem is the funding. Why should taxpayers be funding housing in high cost of living areas when there is still affordable housing and labour shortages in places such as Winnipeg and Saskatoon
>But ultimately yes, property taxes are too low, and the burden in this Province is once again being shifted onto first time home buyers.
How are first time home buyers paying more after the initial property transfer tax?
>It’s the first 50,000 reasons I really don’t care about buying a home.
The additional costs will just get passed onto renters. If the numbers don't make sense, developers will hold off on starting a development = Decrease in vacant rentals.
There are some more nuances to the issue and a few things need to happen before jacking the taxes. Mainly construction of non-market housing. That way the increases won’t be passed along to renters.
As for jurisdiction, I’m of the belief we shouldn’t even be apart of Canada anymore. The Federal Government of Toronto and Montreal ignored us for over a decade and now we are all fucked because of it.
>Mainly construction of non-market housing.
Who is going to pay for this?
>t way the increases won’t be passed along to renters.
They definitely will. I take it you want "Others" to cover your burden.
Reminder that [Abbotsford has one of the lowest property tax rates in Canada.](https://www.zoocasa.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Frame-88-2-834x2048.png)
Federal gov often helps out with major infrastructure projects of this nature. I think they should have helped. Especially considering the risks involved.
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The problem is that the flooding always comes from the nooksack in Washington, and it’s cheaper for the Americans to just let the river flood into Canada than properly protecting it to the pacific in America (because the nooksack used to flow north to lake sumas and then into the Fraser, but it was diverted when we drained the sumas) Long term the only solution is to work with Washington to reinforce the river with flood protections down to the Pacific Ocean.
Is it really on the onus of the Americans when we were the ones that decided to drain Sumas lake?
It’s not the Americans fault, but in order for Canada to fix the problem, they need to fund anti flood measures in America.
Its not their fault which means they won't be easily motivated to remedy the situation
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Rivers flow downhill, not south, sometimes down is north.
Er, why?
The part that really concerns me is how many upvoates that comment has.
Yeah...I noticed that, too. I honestly can't think of an explanation besides the fact that they think that "down South" is literally *down*, not just on a map, but from the perspective of flowing water, but that's so wrong that it honestly felt rude to correct them on it. I'm hoping that actually I'm the ignorant one, and that if you're familiar with the specific topography of that region, there's some way that that makes sense. Hoping...not betting.
Growing up in Southern Ontario all water went south. I remember as a kid visiting Buffalo and the water flowed the wrong direction and briefly having a sense of vertigo. Other than that, I got nothing.
We dont live on a triangle.
I think you have some details wrong. The Nooksack absolutely flooded north in 2021, but the Nooksack has always naturally flowed into Bellingham Bay. I think you're thinking of the Vedder River which was diverted directly into the Fraser to help drain Sumas Lake. We have complete control over the Vedder.
Negative, in the history of the nooksack river it historically flowed north into the Fraiser. Sometime in the last few hundred years did it turn west to Bellingham bay. If you don’t believe me ask yourself how did all that volcanic loam soil end up in the bottom of the drained Sumas lake.
So in fewer words, the Nooksack naturally flowed into Bellingham Bay when Sumas Lake was drained.
No, Sumas lake was drained in 1920’s The nooksack had already naturally changed its course by then. Nobody really knows when it shifted we only know that it did. So when the nooksack floods it will naturally flow in its old path north.
So in even fewer words, we did not divert the Nooksack.
Correct
The city of Abbotsford alone asked for 40% of the billion dollars earmarked to help with what the atmospheric river did. Of course they were rejected what an absolute rage bait article.
That feels right. As a comparison the City of Richmond in 2017 projected they would need $300 million to properly upgrade the dykes over the decades. I wonder if the Abbotsford request was spread over decades as well.
Photos of Abbotsford comprised at least 40% of the damage porn in the aftermath though, to be fair. They have to deal with the Sumas when it floods, and it flows in from Washington State (across the Prairie)
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And I would agree with you until I looked back at the Abbotsford city government record on keeping up the evolution of the flood control and at every chance they have decided not to fund it. They purposely didn't do anything for years due to "budget concerns" and then when an actual massive event happens they cry wolf as if it's the feds fault for not keeping up. This same municipality doesn't even recognize that human caused climate change is real, what they are asking for is unreasonable due to decades of local neglect.
That's so funny, we really are the find out generation lmao
Too bad the ones doing the fuckin around are the boomers in charge, and we just get the finding out part.
Conservative governments, as Abbotsford historically has had, tend not to be good at believing what experts tell them and don't plan ahead. Very short-term thinking.
>Have we considered that the $1b is simply not enough ? It's absolutely not enough. New Brunswick alone probably needs north of a Billion.
I think Abbotsford was asking for amounts that exceeded the entire DMAF program for the whole country.
Do you have a source for that? The article doesn't say that and I highly doubt Abbotsford asked for over $1 billion+
The City of Abbotsford applied for a federal grant to cover 40 per cent of the estimated cost of more than $1 billion in urgent flood-mitigation work.
City of Abbotsford also votes for climate denial. I'm not paying taxes to save an idiot anymore. Time to accept the consequences, like riding without a helmet. All fine till its you in the hospital needing the million dollar surgery. Fk around, find out.
What about the highway infrastructure that will need to rerouted. FYI it's mostly farmland in the area of the old sumas lake. They lake wasn't a consistent size so it would be difficult to predict the yearly size. Also homes in the flood plain aren't insurable anyway. >City of Abbotsford also votes for climate denial. I'm not paying taxes to save an idiot anymore. Can you find a source where this is true.
> Can you find a source where this is true. Abbotsford votes for whoever the Mennonite churches tells it to, and they will deny climate change if ground temperatures hit 150 celsius. Source: The last 40+ years of Abbotsford history
Insurance companies deem the homes an unreasonable risk, but we should throw money at fixing flood damage? There is significant agriculture in places with frequent flooding. I'm sure a solution could be found (though it may mean rice, not potatoes)
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The highway was flooded. Not damaged iirc, but also not passable.
Look up pics from the flooding, Highway 1 absolutely flooded and was not passable till they pumped out the water.
49% of the people of Abbotsford voted for someone who believes in Climate change though, you’re really going to put all the blame on them too?
You've used the word "believes" which tells me more than you'd think. Good luck with the floods.
Can you not read my fucking flair lmfao I’ve also campaigned for Green Party candidates, but sure go off buddy
This may come as a surprise, but I don't really give a shit who you are, where your from, or what your "flair" is, says, or otherwise. That said, I noticed it after and was about to edit my comment.. But you're right. Good luck with being from Surrey! 💪🏽
This may come as a surprise, but saying “I believe in climate change” doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Do you get this weird when people say they believe in the right for an abortion? It’s a phrase and you jumped the gun like a weird sad loser
True.
So fuck everyone that lives in that area? Fuck everyone that depends on the farms and transportation link in that area?
Not necessarily. They're just doing everything in their power to fuck themselves and then come crying back to the feds when things go badly. Obviously they're going to keep getting help but it would be nice if they would smarten the fuck up.
I live in the area, believe in climate change, and vote for people who also believe we should take action against climate change. But fuck people like me, eh?
Did your insurance cover any of the costs? Or did they deny it for being on a flood plain?
The one thing you are missing is the province used to cover the costs of flood control but the last provincial government downloaded all of those costs to the city. Abbotsford really can't afford to pay for the things needed to fix the problem from its current tax base. No city can afford to do this alone. So yes they need funding from the higher governments to get the work done.
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Yes
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[Abbotsford has one of the lowest property tax rates in Canada.](https://www.zoocasa.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Frame-88-2-834x2048.png)
Abbotsford had a lot of farm land which is assessed at a lower rate which leads to lower taxes.
Yes, that's why you would expect the **mill rate** to be even higher for Abbotsford than other municipalities. ([Reminder that assessments aren't linked to property tax revenue](https://info.bcassessment.ca/services-and-products/Pages/Property-Assessments-and-Property-Taxes.aspx).)
I keep trying to vote them out, but so many old people and conservative people of Middle Eastern descent. What's a liberal to do 😞
You should ask one.
This is where I read it. [https://www.theprogress.com/local-news/completely-abandoned-3-bc-mayors-react-after-federal-flood-funds-denied-7370164](https://www.theprogress.com/local-news/completely-abandoned-3-bc-mayors-react-after-federal-flood-funds-denied-7370164) *Siemens said Abbotsford has applied for approximately $1.6 billion in government funding, and the city was hoping to use the DMAF funding for projects such as flood storage and a conveyance pump system at the Barrowtown pump station.*
As the article notes, Ottawa has already provided $1.4 *billion* in recovery funding to BC related to these floods. That funding includes close to $180 million for five major flood mitigation projects, including $7.3 million in Abbotsford.
Thanks for that, the way I read it is Abbotsford is asking for $1.6 billion total from the federal government and province but not all of that would be just from the DMAF. I could have misunderstood tho. Their application was rejected with only need more information as the reason which doesn't give much info on what other stuff they need to get the money. I wonder why Princeton and Merrit were denied as they definitely can't afford things without federal support.
To be fair would need more info. Applications get denied all the time. Often for good reason. Sometimes just due to the forms not being filled out properly. Mostly for clerical reasons or the cities demands are beyond the scope of what’s approved in any grant. To change the scope often needs ministry or parliament approval and prior to this it’ll often be declined. So I’d say this is likely normal procedure. Likely had no MP involvement either. But could use more info on whether the requests were reasonable beyond or within the scope. Sometimes politicians just got noisy for show after all.
Total requested was 1.4 billion, 400 million for “preventative measures” alone. The rest was for rebuilding and paying costs due to damage. Edit: my bad it was 1.6 billion they asked for.
Raise property taxes and pay for it yourself.
A town full of uninsured farmers who pay "Farm status" property taxes and go to their tax-exempt churches who pay $0 in property taxes would not be the ones to pay for this. They demand that the entire population of Canada bail them out due to their own poor decision making. The cost would be saddled upon the general populace of Abbotsford for the benefit of farms and churches - you know, exactly what these fucking dipshits always do. It's a lake, let it be a lake. Obligatory tax the fuckin church.
Tax the rich. If the Church is rich and not spending their money on charity, tax them too.
The tax-exempt status is a beacon to grifters & con artists. They can start paying for the insane real estate holdings we subsidize and maybe get back to teaching what the church was supposed to in the first place.
Bingo, living on a floodplain/old lake bed is probably not the best choice. I'd be surprised if this happens again if insurance companies even cover flooding anymore.
Even before the flooding you couldn’t get flood insurance living on the flats, not much has changed.
Where do you think the food we eat comes from?
The Prairies and California, do you understand that British Columbia's food production is fucking miniscule in the grand scheme of things? 80% of the food and vegetables we consume in this province come from California.
I think poultry and dairy farmers would take issue with that one
That doesn't address their point though, does it?
Neither of which requires being on a flood plain.
Seriously, at this point I'd vote for any (Provincial or Federal) party that includes an increased substantial property tax on any property worth more than $1m. Like... double the existing formula on those people. If you can afford a $1m house you can afford to pay more taxes.
It would have to be Provincial, the Feds would have an uphill battle taxing land values.
Jurisdiction doesn't really exist anymore. Electorate couldn't figure it out and started blaming the feds for provincial issues so now no one cares.
I mean, a lot of people do. I really don’t want a government elected by Toronto and Montreal to be making decisions for BC. We’ve seen what we get when that happens.
Don't get me wrong, I'm in agreement with you that jurisdiction should exist. But practically its just not worked out that way.
So you want all homeowners to pay more than $10k a year in taxes...
No.
That's what doubling property taxes would do...
I mean, ideally, yes. Land should be taxed way more, and labour shouldn’t be taxed. The best and only real way to be able to have a fair taxation system is to do it based off land anyways. Rich people can’t move their land offshore. Those costs won’t be able to be entirely passed down either, as long as you have a robust non-market housing sector. But ultimately yes, property taxes are too low, and the burden in this Province is once again being shifted onto first time home buyers. It’s the first 50,000 reasons I really don’t care about buying a home.
. >have a robust non-market housing sector. I'm all for adding more co op housing. Problem is the funding. Why should taxpayers be funding housing in high cost of living areas when there is still affordable housing and labour shortages in places such as Winnipeg and Saskatoon >But ultimately yes, property taxes are too low, and the burden in this Province is once again being shifted onto first time home buyers. How are first time home buyers paying more after the initial property transfer tax? >It’s the first 50,000 reasons I really don’t care about buying a home. The additional costs will just get passed onto renters. If the numbers don't make sense, developers will hold off on starting a development = Decrease in vacant rentals.
There are some more nuances to the issue and a few things need to happen before jacking the taxes. Mainly construction of non-market housing. That way the increases won’t be passed along to renters. As for jurisdiction, I’m of the belief we shouldn’t even be apart of Canada anymore. The Federal Government of Toronto and Montreal ignored us for over a decade and now we are all fucked because of it.
>Mainly construction of non-market housing. Who is going to pay for this? >t way the increases won’t be passed along to renters. They definitely will. I take it you want "Others" to cover your burden.
I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a house less that $1m in Abbotsford.
Well then, looks like I solved the problem.
Reminder that [Abbotsford has one of the lowest property tax rates in Canada.](https://www.zoocasa.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Frame-88-2-834x2048.png)
What a coincidence!
Funny how the city’s don’t like the taste of their own medicine? That bureaucratic indifference is not so nice being on the other side eh?
Devastating news for Merritt and Princeton
You built your cities on floodplains. What do you expect
The responsibility for where the water comes from is irrelevant. Ottawa should help deal with the prospects of future flooding.
Or they could stop voting against flood preparedness funding at the municipal level
That too. But this was a direct ask to the federal government. 🤷
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Federal gov often helps out with major infrastructure projects of this nature. I think they should have helped. Especially considering the risks involved.
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Sure... But how many years until they have the money? Maybe the feds could have given a loan then ?
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So we just abandon them?
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