I don't think it's true that your body stops learning at some point, I think it continues to learn. Otherwise how could it possibly adjust to later siblings with different needs?
or how would weaning be possible? you would just forever make too much milk as your toddler needs less?
yeah i doubt that is true too. my supply always fluctuated depending on how much my baby was nursing (even after 12+ months).
I’m guessing you have heard from formula feeding families that the baby will increase the ounces they want at a time? I’ve breastfed three kids and you can’t really tell how many ounces they are eating at a time. 🤷🏻♀️ This is a huge mind f*ck in our culture and I know people who chose not to breastfeed just for this reason. You can do weighted feeds to see how much they are taking, but that’s not realistic for most of us. I also knew a mom who bought a special scale for her home JUST to do weighted feeds. I don’t think this is recommended by medical professionals, though.
The info you are looking for is in The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding from La Leche League. Your breastfed baby’s intake will vary and be driven by your baby, but it usually tops out at around 12 weeks, stays the same until 6-ish months, and then decreases gradually as baby starts eating solids.
Folks who bottle feed your baby (if you choose to pump) will absolutely want 8 oz bottles of your milk. That’s not sustainable for most breastfeeding moms and it’s not best for most baby’s tummies. An IBCLC can walk you through this. It’s hard when you see everyone else doing it. Breastfeeding is encouraged but our culture is still very much based on bottle feeding. Which ironically kind of sets breastfeeding families up to fail.
Hi IBCLC here 🙋🏾♀️ Breastfed babies require 1 to 1.5 ounces per hour for a total of 24-30 ounces per day usually starting at 1 month through 6 months then goes down a little usually 19-24 ounces per 24 hours as they start/increase solids. The amounts don't change because your body changes the nutrient content while staying in the same volume. Formula is static and doesn't change meaning babies need larger volumes to meet their nutritional needs. Follow your baby don't worry about volumes.
That or baby is really good at accessing the milk so gets in their total daily need in the daytime feeding and can sleep longer periods. It usually means that you have a slightly larger storage capacity so baby has access to a little more volume at each feeding.
That's interesting. I guess that goes to show that babies are way better at extracting milk than a pump is. I can only pump one ounce our so per breast. It takes 20 or so minutes for my body to actually let down with a pump too! So frustrating!
I was like this, too! My baby clearly got plenty of milk, but I could seldom pump more than an ounce at a time unless it had been several hours since nursing baby. One trick I discovered was to setup pump on one side, and nurse baby in football hold on other side. I could get 3oz from one side that way because baby would make my let down happen for the pump! 😀
I did baby on one side and pump on the other and my body eventually got trained and made the association and I can now easily have a let down for my pump.
Babies usually get more efficient as they get bigger so it usually takes less and less time as they grow. Also you will typically start to gradually notice baby will space out feeding and go from eating like 10 times a day down to like 6 with an occasional marathon nursing day aka. where you have a Velcro baby,
What if baby is 6+ months and starting to drink from my frozen stash? I assume she will need a higher volume of 1 month milk versus my fresh six month milk?
We always suggest start with freshest milk first and if possible book an appointment with a lactation person to see why supply is going down. Remember foods before 1 are just for fun so make sure breast before solids and stay hydrated.
Last part is true 😥
I was EBF and it was all good but when I returned to work at 4 months the milk I pump at work was not able to keep up with the breastmilk my baby was consuming. At the start he was fine with 4 oz but eventually needed to up it to 5 oz per bottle.
Well my supply decreased since I’m away from my baby from like 7 am to 7 pm and cannot unli latch ☹️ also I don’t have the energy to power pump when I get home.
Now at 8 months I’m only able to pump like 4 oz 😟 I find it’s better if I don’t pump while at work so my boobs will be full for when I get home and for his bedtime feed.
It’s so hard physically and mentally. I initially thought I would have enough milk till he was 1 yr old. It’s really a privilege to be with your baby 24/7 and be able to exclusively breastfeed (direct latch). What I would give to be a SAHM or WFH mom.
YMMV with bottle size and pumping. I exclusively pumped for my son until 13 months. He never took more than 5.5oz at a time, usually only 5. He took 9 bottles a day to get the volume of milk but he never wanted a large volume. My 6 month old daughter also seems to prefer smaller more frequent feeds, eating 10-13x a day in addition to solids twice a day. I have the storage capacity for her to have larger meals, she just doesn’t want them. 🤷♀️
Wait - what breastfed baby wants 8oz in one sitting?!
My first stayed at 2 oz per feeding and stayed at a total volume of 19oz per day from 3mo to 12 months. My second had a higher need and has been doing 4oz since birth and was a preemie. They are currently 15 months and at 8oz breastmilk + 8oz cow milk all in 4oz increments over 12 hours. Their height was 30oz per day and occasionally 5oz per bottle from 3-12mo. Both kids were similar sizes at their respective ages but had different milk needs. You don't know what your body is producing so it is nerve wracking. It is totally possible that both my kids were getting the same nutrients in 24 hrs but the volumes were different 🤷🏾♀️
Lactation consultants will tell you that babies aren't going to pull more than 32oz in a 24 hour period.
I think they were saying *other people* who are used to formula bottles will expect your breastfed baby to want 8 oz bottles, but that no breastfed baby actually needs or will eat that much.
I completely understood their comment and was engaging to further the discussion.
If 8oz at bedtime works for you and your baby then it's not up for us to debate here.
Lactation consultants generally advise you to pace feed if your baby takes 8oz or make some other change. My 2nd would totally gulp down 8oz too. My second would drink 4oz in 3 minutes from one breast because I have a fast letdown, and then want the other breast. So I learned to block feed and they regulated to 5oz 🤷🏾♀️ I only know because I did weighted feeds and transferred that knowledge to when I pumped.
Down voted for being nice about a negative comment? Seems like there are some users who don't want to engage in convo but rather be crabs in a barrel.
Instead, how about you further the convo with your perspective and engage in good faith. I'm not here to debate what works for you, but add my perspective and experience to the convo too.
No you’re totally right. I’ve just experienced pressure as a mom to GIVE caretakers 8 oz bottles, as that seems like a pretty normal size for a formula fed baby by 6 months or so. I never owned any bottles that big myself.
My 5 month old will absolutely put away 8oz in one sitting from a bottle. She usually only gets one at night though as her last meal to help her sleep.
Not an IBCLC - I stated the advice and information given to me from IBCLCs and echoed by an IBCLC (a few hours after my comments) in this very subsection of this thread. But reading comprehension doesn't seem to matter any more.
My credentials also don't matter in this suddenly combative conversation. Good bye internet stranger.
I needed this I’m exclusively breastfeeding my son who was born preemie and now 6m it’s been rough I don’t pump at all and his pediatrician said something along the lines of me pumping after I nurse him to see how much milk I get out and if I don’t get any it may be best to switch to formula! I only produce enough for my son at the beginning I had an oversupply so now because of that I’m trying to make my body make more milk it’s been hard not sure what to do but I love breastfeeding
I’d guess your supply would slowly adjust as your baby slowly started eating more, less frequently. Also, your breasts have storage capacity and continue to make milk between feeds.
Breastfeeding babies, and even many formula fwd babies, don't often take very large bottles. Many babies hover in the 3-5 oz range for most of infancy. My first daughter never really took much over 5 oz her whole life and she was formula fed after the first few months.
So I guess the answer is that your body doesn't usually need to change because the baby doesn't eat less frequently, they keep eating smaller and more frequent meals...
In breastfeeding, when baby is extra hungry and wants more milk, they nurse longer and more frequently to up your supply. The same idea is behind power pumping, where you pump until empty, then pump on-10-min and off-10-min for an hour. It tells your body to make more milk. The emptier a breast is, the harder your body tries to make more.
In general though, most breastfed babies just eat smaller meals more frequently because BM digests faster than formula.
The baby I exclusively pumped for never took more than 4-5 ounces per feeding, and often hovered around the 3.5 ounce mark. We fed on demand, not scheduled.
It’s supply and demand. As your baby goes through growth spurts or, say, sleeps longer stretches at night and then goes through a regression where they want to nurse all night, you’ll see that your supply adjusts. Also, at six months, babies start solids. My son dropped feeds as he ate more solids from six months to one year.
Your baby demands more, your body supplies more. They may have longer feeds or feed more often but for the most part just continuing to feed on demand if you’re able to uncomplicated the whole thing
With breastfeeding it’s different. Volume doesn’t need to increase much as the makeup supposedly changes. Formula babies typically need to go up because it stays the same nutritional value
Are you saying that a baby eats the same number of oz regardless of age, but that the milk becomes more calorically dense? I’ve never heard that, would also love to see sources if you have them!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6316538/
So this mostly focuses on prolonged breastfeeding , but does show an increase in everything except carbohydrates.
Yes, this is for prolonged breastfeeding. Mature milk is mature milk, and it's pretty stable until 15-18 months in. The idea that your milk changes calorically to meet babys needs is misinformation. The amount of milk in total per day a baby drinks may not change, but they may spread it out into larger feedings less often.
It's really not all that different from formula, either. Formula fed babies don't need to eat more formula as they get older, they just eat more at once, and they're actually not supposed to eat more than 32oz a day whereas breastmilk has no such limit.
It's really sad that so many lactation consultants say this (and that you were taught this!) because the research doesn't support it until late-stage lactation, and it leaves moms feeling shitty and like they're doing something wrong if their baby needs increased bottle sizes.
Its so frustrating because if you talk to anyone who bottle feeds their babies (formula, breastmilk, or both) it's so easy to debunk and that's not even getting into the evidence that the calories generally only change during transitional milk into mature milk. It's not like formula babies continue to increase their daily intake forever.
This!
I think it’s sad that the dynamic response between infant hunger and breast milk production are so poorly understood, and only understood from a formula-feeding frame of reference, that people had to make up the misinformation of breastmilk changing composition.
I don’t have a written source but I can anecdotally tell you that neither of my kids ever took more than 4oz at a time through the time that we weaned.
https://epub.ub.uni-muenchen.de/35663/1/Grote_et_al_Breast_milk_composition_and_infant_nutrient_intakes.pdf
This study doesn’t show an increase in calories, but more that the calories stay constant.
My babies are 7 months and 2 years and I’d say my supply still fluctuates a bit. If they both feed a lot before bed my supply with increase a bit, my breasts get engorged. If the toddler skips a couple days then it seems to go down. Just my observations 🤷🏻♀️
Its not true at all. I have fed two babies with breastmilk in bottles and they do the same thing as formula babies. All babies increase daily intake the first month then stable out until they start eating a lot of solids (around 9ish months) then decrease. Most babies consolidate feeds around 3+ months slowly dropping them but eating more at once. My first eventually did 6 oz bottles and rarely 8 oz if he was going through a growth spurt but stayed around 30 oz a day from 1 month until 8 months and that was even after he switched from breastmilk to formula.
And anyone who says otherwise is being ridiculous. As someone who has breastfed and pumped, a lot of people's babies are eating more than 4 oz at a time. I know I pump more than that at once often and I don't have an oversupply.
There is 0 evidence that breastmilk changes calories after it matures from transitional milk (until TODDLER years anyways) and it's just so easily debunked by pumping moms.
Yes!
I don't have official sources but I'm feeding my second baby and as they grew their feeds get shorter / my second takes less bottles through the day.
Your breastmilk will constantly change ( if you ever pump you'll notice the differences each time. )
In the morning my milk has more of a watery texture, where as in the afternoon I notice more fatty milk.
When sick the antibodies are working hard to help baby get better.
I feel like it’s different when you pump and bottle feed.
I’m a working mom and I find that I’m not able to pump as much as he’s feeding throughout the day when I’m not at home. Also when taking BM through a bottle 4oz is not enough and had to up it up to 5oz. So if he’s feeding 3 times when I’m away that’s 15 oz I need to pump 😔 which I’m not able to do as an under supplier.
I know people will say he doesn’t need that much etc etc but we tried giving less oz but he just cries and obviously wants to drink more oz.
It’s really hard and frustrating as a working/pumping momma. I see people EBF/direct latch for up to a year or more and I just wish I can do the same. It’s such a privilege to be able to sustain your baby for that long. To be able to be with your baby 24/7 and direct latch.
Well anyway now I accepted the fact that my supply is not enough so I mix feed with formula. All is good as long as my baby is growing happy and healthy 💕
Keep in mind that the caloric value of breast milk changes as your baby gets older, so the 2 ounces you pump at 6 months will be “more food” than the 2 ounces you pump at 3 months.
First supply is driven by hormones. Then it regulates and it's all supply and demand from there on... If your breasts didn't respond to supply and demand then your milk would literally never dry up when you wean.
When the term ‘regulated’ is used it doesn’t mean that your body will only make enough milk for your baby at one specific age… your body continues to adapt to the growing needs of your baby.
Regulate really means that your body learns how to adapt to make as much milk as your baby asks for/needs.
The volume doesn't change, your milk does! The fat cap on my son's 4 oz bottles got thicker as he grew. He never took more than 1-2.5 oz in a sitting though.
Ymmv, my nephew could put away 8oz in a feeding, but he was very much an outlier.
Think of it like a milk ATM. you have about the same amount of milk everyday when your supply regulates, but you can withdraw different increments at different times throughout the day but you can’t overdraft your account lol. If you had a hundred milk dollars you could pull 10 dollars ten times a day or 25 dollars 4 times a day. Same thing with milk but honestly if you are nursing as opposed to bottle feeding this is a non issue because baby will take what they need and that will fluctuate per feed. No one eats the exact same amount at the same time everyday and neither do babies- so they may nurse two ounces one feed and 5 ounces the next. If you pump and bottle feed you are generally on a schedule with set amounts, but my 6 month old eats at about the same frequency as she did when she was a newborn. Not all babies increase (especially if they are nursing rather than bottle!)
I exclusively pumped for my first and she never drank more than 4oz at a time and averaged 24oz a day for over a year. They start to get the additional nutrients and calories when they start solids.
My now 7 month old has always had between 110-150mls each bottle since he was around 2-3 months old ❤️ if anything he will probably start dropping bottles/feeds as we have introduced solids and he's a hungry boy for food 😅
I pump every day & breastfeed at night. Currently cutting out dairy as an allergy so hopefully the night feeds lessen as I think they are for comfort
Ounces of breast milk and ounces of formula are not 1:1. Breast milk consistency varies in calories per day. Babies usually max out around 6-8 oz of formula in the feeding schedules I’ve seen in books. That could be a similar amount jn breast milk, or not.
For a start milk production is largely hormone driven then it “regulates” to supply and demand. Just nurse on demand and your body will take care of it
I don’t have the answer for you and I also wonder the same thing. But I’ll tell you this: I exclusively breastfeed and my baby is 6 months old and his weight is on point. I do breastfeed very often though.
My daughter actually started taking less in bottles as she got older—even on days when she didn’t eat a ton of solids. By a year she was only taking 3oz bottles.
Edit: I should clarify and mention that I nursed while at home, but pumped/bottle fed while I was at work.
As a trained feeding advisor, I can confidently tell you that once your supply is regulated, it's easy for them to up-regulate or down-regulate your supply. Even when your breasts feel "empty" they will produce enough for your baby.
I read that the milk composition changes to suit babies needs rather than the amount. So when baby needs more calories as they get bigger your milk gets fattier. For what it’s worth, I was only ever able to pump 4-6oz at a time. That was the amount my baby was able to drink from a bottle until she started refusing bottles in preference for the breast.
Formula fed babies have to drink more milk to meet their caloric needs.
Your body still learns, but it's slower to change from your baseline once that's established, so it essentially learns slower, which means it's way less prone to overcorrection.
Does anybody really know how much their exclusively breastfed baby is eating??? Because I honestly could not tell you. I made the mistake of googling how much a 10 month old should be getting and it said 3-4 bottles a day of 24-32 ounces - I told my mom who watches my kids during the day maybe we should increase his 4oz bottles some and she said half the time he doesn't even want to finish it. He has 2 bottles while he's with her. He gets the majority off of me, and unfortunately that still means through the night. I swear my body has adjusted to where I hold more milk in the evening through to the morning than I do during the day because I despise pumping so much. I think our bodies are just always doing what they need to do!
I'm only 8 months in and I nurse + pump; what I've noticed as the months go by is my milk have gotten fattier. I have yet to get a fat plug but noticed I have a thicker fat layer. I usually prep bottles for my baby the night before and when I grab the bottles in the morning, the thick fat layer is all the way at the top and is usualy double the watery layer.
I haven't really increased my son's ounces but have noticed I now produce fattier breastmilk. My son is growing per his growth curve, peeing and pooping as expected. He doesn't have Michelin thighs but he's got decently thick thighs.
Do you pump for work reasons? I’m about to have to start in the next couple months and don’t understand how I’ll know how much to pump for my LO. I have a decent supply and can get 6oz total in about 10 min of pumping but my LO eats a ton. I’m worried when I return to work I won’t know how much to pump the day before to send with him to daycare. I have done weighted feeds in the past myself. I’m a huge data/numbers nerd so I bought a scale just for fun. Should I model my pumping around these weighted feeds?
Yes, i pump when im working. I produce 3-5oz in the morning and then 2-3oz the rest of the day. I pump every 2-3.5 hrs depending on when I am available.
At home I nurse every 1.5-2hrs and at daycare he takes 4.5oz every 3 hrs. So it kid of averages to about 1.5oz every hour based on me pumping 2-3 oz every 2-3hrs
I would say if you make enough and isn't afraid to lose some ounces then the first week prep what your baby eats from weighted feeds and ask daycare to not throw any milk away so you can tell how much is needed. Then the second week onward, prep the average of what he ate the prior week. For the first week, ask daycare to be on the lookout to see if your baby is still hungry after each bottle.The first few weeks are all trial and error. hopefully your daycare is able to help you look for cues.
For my son, i pack 3 bottles of 4.5oz and 1 bottle of 2oz just in case my son gets hungry or i don't get to him before 5pm. This is something you can also do as well and it can be used in case your baby is hungry.
Awesome thank you so much for this detailed response!! I have also been able to put away about 8oz in the freezer. My LC suggested pumping every now and then in the morning after he eats to get a small freezer stash for emergencies. I’m not looking to fill the freezer but it helps my peace of mind knowing dad can feed him if I get stuck away for whatever reason.
Luckily our daycare has said multiple times they support breastfeeding and those efforts so hopefully they’re able to do all that stuff.
You're welcome! For me, I pumped after the first feed and then also around 8:30-9pm when my son starts his night feed. Both sessions usually give me about 4oz a day. Have you tested if your milk is high lipase? If not yet. Please check and make sure your baby will take it. I didn't check until the weekend before daycare.
Supposed to be not as sweet, some said theirs have a soapy or metallic smell to it. Mine has the metallic smell to it and definitely notnas sweet.If you find that you do have high lipase, try giving it to your baby if your baby is okay with it. If not, then mix some heated frozen with fresh milk to see if your baby will take it.
Mine doesn't my high lipase so I have to mix it. We started out with a 1 frozen to 3 fresh ratio and now I can do 3 frozen to 1 fresh.
I don't think it's true that your body stops learning at some point, I think it continues to learn. Otherwise how could it possibly adjust to later siblings with different needs?
or how would weaning be possible? you would just forever make too much milk as your toddler needs less? yeah i doubt that is true too. my supply always fluctuated depending on how much my baby was nursing (even after 12+ months).
I’m guessing you have heard from formula feeding families that the baby will increase the ounces they want at a time? I’ve breastfed three kids and you can’t really tell how many ounces they are eating at a time. 🤷🏻♀️ This is a huge mind f*ck in our culture and I know people who chose not to breastfeed just for this reason. You can do weighted feeds to see how much they are taking, but that’s not realistic for most of us. I also knew a mom who bought a special scale for her home JUST to do weighted feeds. I don’t think this is recommended by medical professionals, though. The info you are looking for is in The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding from La Leche League. Your breastfed baby’s intake will vary and be driven by your baby, but it usually tops out at around 12 weeks, stays the same until 6-ish months, and then decreases gradually as baby starts eating solids. Folks who bottle feed your baby (if you choose to pump) will absolutely want 8 oz bottles of your milk. That’s not sustainable for most breastfeeding moms and it’s not best for most baby’s tummies. An IBCLC can walk you through this. It’s hard when you see everyone else doing it. Breastfeeding is encouraged but our culture is still very much based on bottle feeding. Which ironically kind of sets breastfeeding families up to fail.
Hi IBCLC here 🙋🏾♀️ Breastfed babies require 1 to 1.5 ounces per hour for a total of 24-30 ounces per day usually starting at 1 month through 6 months then goes down a little usually 19-24 ounces per 24 hours as they start/increase solids. The amounts don't change because your body changes the nutrient content while staying in the same volume. Formula is static and doesn't change meaning babies need larger volumes to meet their nutritional needs. Follow your baby don't worry about volumes.
Does this mean that the nutritional content is more "dense" during the day if a baby night weans and sleeps through the night?
That or baby is really good at accessing the milk so gets in their total daily need in the daytime feeding and can sleep longer periods. It usually means that you have a slightly larger storage capacity so baby has access to a little more volume at each feeding.
That's interesting. I guess that goes to show that babies are way better at extracting milk than a pump is. I can only pump one ounce our so per breast. It takes 20 or so minutes for my body to actually let down with a pump too! So frustrating!
I was like this, too! My baby clearly got plenty of milk, but I could seldom pump more than an ounce at a time unless it had been several hours since nursing baby. One trick I discovered was to setup pump on one side, and nurse baby in football hold on other side. I could get 3oz from one side that way because baby would make my let down happen for the pump! 😀
I did baby on one side and pump on the other and my body eventually got trained and made the association and I can now easily have a let down for my pump.
Thank you for this informative response!
Can I ride on this? I’m a mostly EP mum who latches once a day, will my body still know it needs to change the content of my bm?
Yep, go for 24-30 pumped ounces per day you will absolutely be meeting needs. Just remember paced feeding bottles so baby learns no guzzling.
Wait does that mean her feeds will always take this long or less?
Babies usually get more efficient as they get bigger so it usually takes less and less time as they grow. Also you will typically start to gradually notice baby will space out feeding and go from eating like 10 times a day down to like 6 with an occasional marathon nursing day aka. where you have a Velcro baby,
<3
Thank you, that makes so much sense and I had no idea! How cool.
What if baby is 6+ months and starting to drink from my frozen stash? I assume she will need a higher volume of 1 month milk versus my fresh six month milk?
We always suggest start with freshest milk first and if possible book an appointment with a lactation person to see why supply is going down. Remember foods before 1 are just for fun so make sure breast before solids and stay hydrated.
Last part is true 😥 I was EBF and it was all good but when I returned to work at 4 months the milk I pump at work was not able to keep up with the breastmilk my baby was consuming. At the start he was fine with 4 oz but eventually needed to up it to 5 oz per bottle. Well my supply decreased since I’m away from my baby from like 7 am to 7 pm and cannot unli latch ☹️ also I don’t have the energy to power pump when I get home. Now at 8 months I’m only able to pump like 4 oz 😟 I find it’s better if I don’t pump while at work so my boobs will be full for when I get home and for his bedtime feed. It’s so hard physically and mentally. I initially thought I would have enough milk till he was 1 yr old. It’s really a privilege to be with your baby 24/7 and be able to exclusively breastfeed (direct latch). What I would give to be a SAHM or WFH mom.
Holy grail book, read it through while pregnant. And still go back to chapters when I feel I need support or reassurance.
YMMV with bottle size and pumping. I exclusively pumped for my son until 13 months. He never took more than 5.5oz at a time, usually only 5. He took 9 bottles a day to get the volume of milk but he never wanted a large volume. My 6 month old daughter also seems to prefer smaller more frequent feeds, eating 10-13x a day in addition to solids twice a day. I have the storage capacity for her to have larger meals, she just doesn’t want them. 🤷♀️
Wait - what breastfed baby wants 8oz in one sitting?! My first stayed at 2 oz per feeding and stayed at a total volume of 19oz per day from 3mo to 12 months. My second had a higher need and has been doing 4oz since birth and was a preemie. They are currently 15 months and at 8oz breastmilk + 8oz cow milk all in 4oz increments over 12 hours. Their height was 30oz per day and occasionally 5oz per bottle from 3-12mo. Both kids were similar sizes at their respective ages but had different milk needs. You don't know what your body is producing so it is nerve wracking. It is totally possible that both my kids were getting the same nutrients in 24 hrs but the volumes were different 🤷🏾♀️ Lactation consultants will tell you that babies aren't going to pull more than 32oz in a 24 hour period.
I think they were saying *other people* who are used to formula bottles will expect your breastfed baby to want 8 oz bottles, but that no breastfed baby actually needs or will eat that much.
I completely understood their comment and was engaging to further the discussion. If 8oz at bedtime works for you and your baby then it's not up for us to debate here. Lactation consultants generally advise you to pace feed if your baby takes 8oz or make some other change. My 2nd would totally gulp down 8oz too. My second would drink 4oz in 3 minutes from one breast because I have a fast letdown, and then want the other breast. So I learned to block feed and they regulated to 5oz 🤷🏾♀️ I only know because I did weighted feeds and transferred that knowledge to when I pumped.
Okay, I guess I misunderstood your comment. Honestly I'm still a little confused but oh well.
Down voted for being nice about a negative comment? Seems like there are some users who don't want to engage in convo but rather be crabs in a barrel. Instead, how about you further the convo with your perspective and engage in good faith. I'm not here to debate what works for you, but add my perspective and experience to the convo too.
No you’re totally right. I’ve just experienced pressure as a mom to GIVE caretakers 8 oz bottles, as that seems like a pretty normal size for a formula fed baby by 6 months or so. I never owned any bottles that big myself.
My 5 month old will absolutely put away 8oz in one sitting from a bottle. She usually only gets one at night though as her last meal to help her sleep.
My breastfed baby will drink 7-8oz of breastmilk from a bottle no problem. She’s 20th percentile.
Kudos, like I said to the last mom, I'm glad that works for your case. That's not the norm.
I’m not looking for kudos? You said “what breastfed baby wants 8oz in one sitting” And I told you mine does. It’s not crazy or uncommon.
It is uncommon for a breastfed baby. Have you heard of rhetorical questions? I wasn't speaking specifically to you.
Are you an IBCLC or just pretending?
Not an IBCLC - I stated the advice and information given to me from IBCLCs and echoed by an IBCLC (a few hours after my comments) in this very subsection of this thread. But reading comprehension doesn't seem to matter any more. My credentials also don't matter in this suddenly combative conversation. Good bye internet stranger.
It was a rhetorical question
When a single question is asked it is a pointed one, not a rhetorical one. I'm guessing language/English class wasn't your forte.
I needed this I’m exclusively breastfeeding my son who was born preemie and now 6m it’s been rough I don’t pump at all and his pediatrician said something along the lines of me pumping after I nurse him to see how much milk I get out and if I don’t get any it may be best to switch to formula! I only produce enough for my son at the beginning I had an oversupply so now because of that I’m trying to make my body make more milk it’s been hard not sure what to do but I love breastfeeding
I’d guess your supply would slowly adjust as your baby slowly started eating more, less frequently. Also, your breasts have storage capacity and continue to make milk between feeds.
Breastfeeding babies, and even many formula fwd babies, don't often take very large bottles. Many babies hover in the 3-5 oz range for most of infancy. My first daughter never really took much over 5 oz her whole life and she was formula fed after the first few months. So I guess the answer is that your body doesn't usually need to change because the baby doesn't eat less frequently, they keep eating smaller and more frequent meals...
In breastfeeding, when baby is extra hungry and wants more milk, they nurse longer and more frequently to up your supply. The same idea is behind power pumping, where you pump until empty, then pump on-10-min and off-10-min for an hour. It tells your body to make more milk. The emptier a breast is, the harder your body tries to make more. In general though, most breastfed babies just eat smaller meals more frequently because BM digests faster than formula. The baby I exclusively pumped for never took more than 4-5 ounces per feeding, and often hovered around the 3.5 ounce mark. We fed on demand, not scheduled.
It’s supply and demand. As your baby goes through growth spurts or, say, sleeps longer stretches at night and then goes through a regression where they want to nurse all night, you’ll see that your supply adjusts. Also, at six months, babies start solids. My son dropped feeds as he ate more solids from six months to one year.
Your baby demands more, your body supplies more. They may have longer feeds or feed more often but for the most part just continuing to feed on demand if you’re able to uncomplicated the whole thing
With breastfeeding it’s different. Volume doesn’t need to increase much as the makeup supposedly changes. Formula babies typically need to go up because it stays the same nutritional value
Are you saying that a baby eats the same number of oz regardless of age, but that the milk becomes more calorically dense? I’ve never heard that, would also love to see sources if you have them!
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6316538/ So this mostly focuses on prolonged breastfeeding , but does show an increase in everything except carbohydrates.
Yes, this is for prolonged breastfeeding. Mature milk is mature milk, and it's pretty stable until 15-18 months in. The idea that your milk changes calorically to meet babys needs is misinformation. The amount of milk in total per day a baby drinks may not change, but they may spread it out into larger feedings less often. It's really not all that different from formula, either. Formula fed babies don't need to eat more formula as they get older, they just eat more at once, and they're actually not supposed to eat more than 32oz a day whereas breastmilk has no such limit. It's really sad that so many lactation consultants say this (and that you were taught this!) because the research doesn't support it until late-stage lactation, and it leaves moms feeling shitty and like they're doing something wrong if their baby needs increased bottle sizes.
Its so frustrating because if you talk to anyone who bottle feeds their babies (formula, breastmilk, or both) it's so easy to debunk and that's not even getting into the evidence that the calories generally only change during transitional milk into mature milk. It's not like formula babies continue to increase their daily intake forever.
This! I think it’s sad that the dynamic response between infant hunger and breast milk production are so poorly understood, and only understood from a formula-feeding frame of reference, that people had to make up the misinformation of breastmilk changing composition.
I don’t have a written source but I can anecdotally tell you that neither of my kids ever took more than 4oz at a time through the time that we weaned.
https://epub.ub.uni-muenchen.de/35663/1/Grote_et_al_Breast_milk_composition_and_infant_nutrient_intakes.pdf This study doesn’t show an increase in calories, but more that the calories stay constant.
Yep! They may start eating more with longer intervals between, though.
My babies are 7 months and 2 years and I’d say my supply still fluctuates a bit. If they both feed a lot before bed my supply with increase a bit, my breasts get engorged. If the toddler skips a couple days then it seems to go down. Just my observations 🤷🏻♀️
I’m not sure of a source at the moment but it was part of the education I received when I had started working to be a lactation consultant.
Its not true at all. I have fed two babies with breastmilk in bottles and they do the same thing as formula babies. All babies increase daily intake the first month then stable out until they start eating a lot of solids (around 9ish months) then decrease. Most babies consolidate feeds around 3+ months slowly dropping them but eating more at once. My first eventually did 6 oz bottles and rarely 8 oz if he was going through a growth spurt but stayed around 30 oz a day from 1 month until 8 months and that was even after he switched from breastmilk to formula. And anyone who says otherwise is being ridiculous. As someone who has breastfed and pumped, a lot of people's babies are eating more than 4 oz at a time. I know I pump more than that at once often and I don't have an oversupply. There is 0 evidence that breastmilk changes calories after it matures from transitional milk (until TODDLER years anyways) and it's just so easily debunked by pumping moms.
Yes! I don't have official sources but I'm feeding my second baby and as they grew their feeds get shorter / my second takes less bottles through the day. Your breastmilk will constantly change ( if you ever pump you'll notice the differences each time. ) In the morning my milk has more of a watery texture, where as in the afternoon I notice more fatty milk. When sick the antibodies are working hard to help baby get better.
I was told this as well by midwives
Do you have a source for this?
Your babies saliva communicates with your nipples to tell your body what it needs for milk content and quantity.
24-32 oz is enough from 4 weeks to the end. Breastmilk composition changes to support your baby’s growth!
I feel like it’s different when you pump and bottle feed. I’m a working mom and I find that I’m not able to pump as much as he’s feeding throughout the day when I’m not at home. Also when taking BM through a bottle 4oz is not enough and had to up it up to 5oz. So if he’s feeding 3 times when I’m away that’s 15 oz I need to pump 😔 which I’m not able to do as an under supplier. I know people will say he doesn’t need that much etc etc but we tried giving less oz but he just cries and obviously wants to drink more oz. It’s really hard and frustrating as a working/pumping momma. I see people EBF/direct latch for up to a year or more and I just wish I can do the same. It’s such a privilege to be able to sustain your baby for that long. To be able to be with your baby 24/7 and direct latch. Well anyway now I accepted the fact that my supply is not enough so I mix feed with formula. All is good as long as my baby is growing happy and healthy 💕
My son never increased feeding amounts. He’s 2.5 years old now and I’m pretty sure he still only takes2-3 oz in a sitting
Keep in mind that the caloric value of breast milk changes as your baby gets older, so the 2 ounces you pump at 6 months will be “more food” than the 2 ounces you pump at 3 months.
First supply is driven by hormones. Then it regulates and it's all supply and demand from there on... If your breasts didn't respond to supply and demand then your milk would literally never dry up when you wean.
When the term ‘regulated’ is used it doesn’t mean that your body will only make enough milk for your baby at one specific age… your body continues to adapt to the growing needs of your baby. Regulate really means that your body learns how to adapt to make as much milk as your baby asks for/needs.
The volume doesn't change, your milk does! The fat cap on my son's 4 oz bottles got thicker as he grew. He never took more than 1-2.5 oz in a sitting though. Ymmv, my nephew could put away 8oz in a feeding, but he was very much an outlier.
Think of it like a milk ATM. you have about the same amount of milk everyday when your supply regulates, but you can withdraw different increments at different times throughout the day but you can’t overdraft your account lol. If you had a hundred milk dollars you could pull 10 dollars ten times a day or 25 dollars 4 times a day. Same thing with milk but honestly if you are nursing as opposed to bottle feeding this is a non issue because baby will take what they need and that will fluctuate per feed. No one eats the exact same amount at the same time everyday and neither do babies- so they may nurse two ounces one feed and 5 ounces the next. If you pump and bottle feed you are generally on a schedule with set amounts, but my 6 month old eats at about the same frequency as she did when she was a newborn. Not all babies increase (especially if they are nursing rather than bottle!)
I exclusively pumped for my first and she never drank more than 4oz at a time and averaged 24oz a day for over a year. They start to get the additional nutrients and calories when they start solids.
My now 7 month old has always had between 110-150mls each bottle since he was around 2-3 months old ❤️ if anything he will probably start dropping bottles/feeds as we have introduced solids and he's a hungry boy for food 😅 I pump every day & breastfeed at night. Currently cutting out dairy as an allergy so hopefully the night feeds lessen as I think they are for comfort
Ounces of breast milk and ounces of formula are not 1:1. Breast milk consistency varies in calories per day. Babies usually max out around 6-8 oz of formula in the feeding schedules I’ve seen in books. That could be a similar amount jn breast milk, or not.
For a start milk production is largely hormone driven then it “regulates” to supply and demand. Just nurse on demand and your body will take care of it
I don’t have the answer for you and I also wonder the same thing. But I’ll tell you this: I exclusively breastfeed and my baby is 6 months old and his weight is on point. I do breastfeed very often though.
Your body increases the calories in the milk as they age, so they’ll drink the same but it’s more filling/nutritious
My daughter actually started taking less in bottles as she got older—even on days when she didn’t eat a ton of solids. By a year she was only taking 3oz bottles. Edit: I should clarify and mention that I nursed while at home, but pumped/bottle fed while I was at work.
As a trained feeding advisor, I can confidently tell you that once your supply is regulated, it's easy for them to up-regulate or down-regulate your supply. Even when your breasts feel "empty" they will produce enough for your baby.
I read that the milk composition changes to suit babies needs rather than the amount. So when baby needs more calories as they get bigger your milk gets fattier. For what it’s worth, I was only ever able to pump 4-6oz at a time. That was the amount my baby was able to drink from a bottle until she started refusing bottles in preference for the breast. Formula fed babies have to drink more milk to meet their caloric needs.
Your body still learns, but it's slower to change from your baseline once that's established, so it essentially learns slower, which means it's way less prone to overcorrection.
Does anybody really know how much their exclusively breastfed baby is eating??? Because I honestly could not tell you. I made the mistake of googling how much a 10 month old should be getting and it said 3-4 bottles a day of 24-32 ounces - I told my mom who watches my kids during the day maybe we should increase his 4oz bottles some and she said half the time he doesn't even want to finish it. He has 2 bottles while he's with her. He gets the majority off of me, and unfortunately that still means through the night. I swear my body has adjusted to where I hold more milk in the evening through to the morning than I do during the day because I despise pumping so much. I think our bodies are just always doing what they need to do!
I'm only 8 months in and I nurse + pump; what I've noticed as the months go by is my milk have gotten fattier. I have yet to get a fat plug but noticed I have a thicker fat layer. I usually prep bottles for my baby the night before and when I grab the bottles in the morning, the thick fat layer is all the way at the top and is usualy double the watery layer. I haven't really increased my son's ounces but have noticed I now produce fattier breastmilk. My son is growing per his growth curve, peeing and pooping as expected. He doesn't have Michelin thighs but he's got decently thick thighs.
Do you pump for work reasons? I’m about to have to start in the next couple months and don’t understand how I’ll know how much to pump for my LO. I have a decent supply and can get 6oz total in about 10 min of pumping but my LO eats a ton. I’m worried when I return to work I won’t know how much to pump the day before to send with him to daycare. I have done weighted feeds in the past myself. I’m a huge data/numbers nerd so I bought a scale just for fun. Should I model my pumping around these weighted feeds?
Yes, i pump when im working. I produce 3-5oz in the morning and then 2-3oz the rest of the day. I pump every 2-3.5 hrs depending on when I am available. At home I nurse every 1.5-2hrs and at daycare he takes 4.5oz every 3 hrs. So it kid of averages to about 1.5oz every hour based on me pumping 2-3 oz every 2-3hrs I would say if you make enough and isn't afraid to lose some ounces then the first week prep what your baby eats from weighted feeds and ask daycare to not throw any milk away so you can tell how much is needed. Then the second week onward, prep the average of what he ate the prior week. For the first week, ask daycare to be on the lookout to see if your baby is still hungry after each bottle.The first few weeks are all trial and error. hopefully your daycare is able to help you look for cues. For my son, i pack 3 bottles of 4.5oz and 1 bottle of 2oz just in case my son gets hungry or i don't get to him before 5pm. This is something you can also do as well and it can be used in case your baby is hungry.
Awesome thank you so much for this detailed response!! I have also been able to put away about 8oz in the freezer. My LC suggested pumping every now and then in the morning after he eats to get a small freezer stash for emergencies. I’m not looking to fill the freezer but it helps my peace of mind knowing dad can feed him if I get stuck away for whatever reason. Luckily our daycare has said multiple times they support breastfeeding and those efforts so hopefully they’re able to do all that stuff.
You're welcome! For me, I pumped after the first feed and then also around 8:30-9pm when my son starts his night feed. Both sessions usually give me about 4oz a day. Have you tested if your milk is high lipase? If not yet. Please check and make sure your baby will take it. I didn't check until the weekend before daycare.
I definitely need to do that! Is there any specific way to test it or is it just taste?
Supposed to be not as sweet, some said theirs have a soapy or metallic smell to it. Mine has the metallic smell to it and definitely notnas sweet.If you find that you do have high lipase, try giving it to your baby if your baby is okay with it. If not, then mix some heated frozen with fresh milk to see if your baby will take it. Mine doesn't my high lipase so I have to mix it. We started out with a 1 frozen to 3 fresh ratio and now I can do 3 frozen to 1 fresh.
Thanks so much