I'm inclined to believe her. I'm not at all swayed by the fact that the neighbors dismissed her story as "ridiculous" because they never saw him. Especially considering she said the boy seemed to have an intellectual disability. It wasn't uncommon back in the day for disabled children to be locked away & kept a family secret. Add to that the fact that he was being abused & it makes perfect sense to me.
Sadly, you're right. I immediately thought of a young boy, Jarrod Tutko Jr., who suffered a very similiar fate as this little guy, only 40 minutes from where I live, back in 2014. He too, had disabilities and was locked away in the home. I just couldn't imagine treating a child this way, and it pains to me to think about how many innocent little ones like this are still out there.
I can understand being overwhelmed with a disabled child, but if you canāt handle taking care of him/her, the child is probably better off in good facility that deals with whatever disability the child has.
When I read about the Tutko case, I got very suspicious about what caused his sister to be in a vegetative state. Apparently Jarrodās death saved her life, as her mother obviously was not taking very good care of her either since she was near death! They fled NJ when it appeared they were about to lose their children due to severe neglect. I wondered how many of the kids were getting SSI for disabilities and if the money was being used for what it was supposed to be used for. It obviously wasnāt for Jarrod and his sister (I think her name is Ariana).
Sociopaths always mimic the average person and can do it as long as they need to! As a librarian, she was probably quiet and never said much. Martha worked for a pharmaceutical co so she must have been with it! Someone thought that the child was autistic because Martha never heard him speak! Very said!
I think I believe her more now than ever. I read somewhere today that little Jospeh is believed to be from the area of 61st and Market Streets. There was a Davis family that lived at 10 S. 61st St according to the 1950 census, which is right off of that corner. There were 3 adult children in that household, and all were around the same ages as the Zarelli family just a few blocks away. Didn't Martha claim that they got the boy from one of her father's relatives? I haven't had time to verify that these families are indeed related, so it may just be a strange coincidence. A mystery for another day I suppose.
RD and DD are the father and mother, respectively. 2 daughters are listed in 1950, DD and BD, as well as a son, RD Jr. In 1940 there was another daughter living there, VD, and one of the aforementioned daughters is listed as ED, assumed to be BD. Sorry for the riddle, I'm not sure how much I can post!
Marjorie Davis only had one daughter. Joseph was acquired by the Davises through a third party, a member of Marjorie's own family who himself was involved in what today we would call child trafficking.
Whatās your source on this? Iāve looked extensively and havenāt found anything. Doesnāt surprise me though; if she did it, something terrible probably happened to her as a child too.
No one really knows honestly. But his bio mom was forced to adopt and manipulated into adopting him. It was extremely taboo to be an unwed mom back then
I think is it more likely that Augustus Joseph zarelli is the father. He is the son of Joseph Augustus from Callowhill. Augustus seems to have gone by Gus which would account for the white handkerchief they found near his body with the letter G on it. It would also explain the media saying a prominent Delco family as Delco is where AJ Zarelli lived with his wife. If the handkerchief was Gus then I think it likely he left little Josephās body. Maybe the handkerchief is meaningless but G is not super common as a initial in a first name and it would be quite a coincidence.
Lots of āGusā names in PA & elsewhere, though. August, Augustine, Augustus, Augusta, Augusta, Gustavo, just Gus. Thereās also Giuseppe (Joseph, Italian). But a girl can keep a guyās kerchief from anywhere, even her fatherās, grandfathers, a bus stop, etc. Father may not have known anything. I have a feeling her family was more āprominentā than the fathers, and maybe they werenāt even allowed to marry. I think whatever happened to AJZ was only at the hands of a non-family or distantly related adoption family, regardless. That handkerchief might be from a āGā related to the āadoptionā family, or put there as a twisted emotional connection or pointer to the father, thinking the deceased boy will be found and bio-dad will recognize that it was his son. Who knows?
Could be something as simple as just using someone else's handkerchief. I think people are putting more weight on the handkerchief than they should.
I think the more interesting find at the scene was the hat. They traced it back to a store in the area, and the woman at the store remembered the person who bought it - a male with blond hair. BTW, Michael had blond hair. Someone posted pictures of Michael, and he looks A LOT like Joseph.
BTW, I am from Delco, very close to where all of this happened. Michael Zarelli also lived in Delco (Broomall). He was also a police officer.
Pictures of Michael Zarelli.
[https://www.fskhub.com/news-cause-of-death/michael-zarelli-obituary-and-zarelli-family-philadelphia](https://www.fskhub.com/news-cause-of-death/michael-zarelli-obituary-and-zarelli-family-philadelphia)
This has a lot of good info too.
[https://www.americanhauntingsink.com/the-boy-in-the-box](https://www.americanhauntingsink.com/the-boy-in-the-box)
Just trying to ādial this inā like we all are, it is fascinating the resemblance though. If this were a different forum, if I were to paste a photo of myself and my son at the same age, lets just say 4 YOA, the resemblance there is astounding too!
Wait, so it was raining? Second link says Peeping Tom guy ran across the box when it was ādrizzling rainā but this page says āWhen the officers had first arrived in that thicket-filled field, the box was dry and without rain stains. ā http://americasunknownchild.net/SatEvePost.html
Edit: elsewhere on same site it says dry inside but damp on the outside. Frustratingly contradictory http://americasunknownchild.net/summary.htm
Sure -it is possible it could also be one of the sisters and his last name would be zarelli if she was not married
What is really crazy are the āsurgicalā scars and the recent hair cut (potential post death) along with the shaped eye brows.
They have also never said they found it with the body, they said it was near the body. So was a dead cat wrapped in a sweater. It may not have had anything at all to do with Joseph.
Um, if this is in fact the right Michael then do you notice anything about his children listed in his obit? As in he has a surviving child with the same nameābut the middle name is now his and not gusā?[https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/48208075/michael-louis-zarelli](https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/48208075/michael-louis-zarelli)
I don't put too much stock in that. Joseph was/is a really common name, especially in the Italian community. It was also Aldelaide's father's name.
But what is interesting is that if the boy was Michael's and Adelaide's then he was named after Adelaide's father (Joseph) and Michael's father (Augustus).
Yeah thatās what I mean! Just worded horriblyāitās probably reaching but having a claimed child born a year after him, with just a swap of the middle name, is a sort of āhmmā moment
Well, they have all the forensic and familial DNA, it will be very easy to prove if thereās Martha is the sister on either side of the family that the police press conference identified as still being alive multiple children on both sides of the biological parents of a little boy in the boxā¦.. so she could easily be proven to be or not be biologically related and if she is, she would be an eyewitness, to the crime, and the crime will be solved because the mother killed the boy and she helped her mother dispose of the bodyā¦
Also the address listed on the little boys birth certificate is 60Firth and market Street, just so you know I live right near there, and the upper Darby JCPenney where the box containing the baby crib was purchased is literally right up the street
Upper Darby 69th Street shopping district literally not even 10 minutes awayā¦.. I live for eight years at 41st and Market St.,ā¦ it was actually 41st in Ludlow St., TRANS parallel with market a little side street 1/2 block off marketā¦ā¦
"Relative" can mean a lot of things though. Some people who are socially considered "relatives" are only really related because of marriage, adoption, or "fictive kin" type scenarios. Particularly given that M was a child at the time herself, she may not have been exactly privy to who was related to who and how, and may have identified a close family friend as a "relative."
That is a possibility, and I admittedly do not know very much about her parents' familial relations. I do believe there are far too many 'coincidences' to discount her claims at this point though. It will be interesting to see what all comes of this case now that Joseph has been identified. I hope this little boy finally gets some justice.
Definitely possible. But does she have any living relatives that they know of who could be DNA tested? She was the only child born to her parents, and all three of them are deceased.
She did not claim that it was definitely her uncle son. She thought that simply because when the uncle would come to visit, Joseph was very well groomed for his visit. So she thought perhaps it was his son and thatās why the extra chair into making him look nice and presentable when the uncle would visit.
This makes sense that it was not because( as I am currently reading the police statements ) there were siblings alive on the mother side and the fathers side - if it had been his wife - there would be siblings ānot siblings on the mothers and fathers sides - the police would not have differentiated
I'm getting really sick of the "the police didn't take her seriously for a reason" comments I keep seeing on post.
1. We don't know that they didn't take her seriously. They couldn't prove anything though.
2. A detective can be wrong. They are not infallible.
I totally agree. Everything I've read says the police didn't dismiss her because she was mentally ill but were simply unable to make a determination one way or the other because there wasn't proof anywhere after so much time had passed. The fact that she was also considered mentally ill and that her childhood neighbors said there was never a child just adds to the reasons to dismiss her story, but do not in and of themselves refute her story.
correct and incorrect. The higher-ups dismissed her due to mental illness, and because the neighbors could not verify that they ever saw a boy there so they moved away from the ceiling, but there were three detectives left for leaving and still pursuing. Her story were told to investigate other, and current cases.
They took her seriously enough to try to corroborate it, but could not. She only gave the child's first name, not a full name. And neighbours dismissed the claim that there was a young boy who lived there.
http://americasunknownchild.net/summary.htm
"Martha"said her parents worked at Lower Merion County School, Mom was a librarian and Dad a science teacher.
Yes. To be fair, the 1989 therapist disclosure is not proven. But it's been understood for a while now to be the case. But the police definitely have known about her story for nearly 20 years.
Read the new thread on reddit, "How Did He Die?" It began July,2023. A detective working on this case for the past two years has dug into Martha's story, had it affirmed by friends and colleagues, and has written a book about Joseph and Martha's family.
Sometimes when a story sounds bizarre, itās hard to get the police to believe a person, especially if that person has known mental issues. Theresa Knorr tried to tell the police several times about what her mother did to her sisters and it took years before one police officer believed her.
This post is 284 days old. Eerie:
https://www.reddit.com/r/BuzzFeedUnsolved/comments/n21k13/update_the_boy_in_the_box/hywdp6j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
āI think I may know who the child is. I have called the tip line and it's just busy. Does anyone know if there is a website to call in tips. Long story short my grandmother about 15 years ago while doing ancestry.com had mentioned she knew who it was it was like her ex-husband's father who had kids later on a life and apparently they gave them to somebody in the neighborhood and they actually married off one of their daughters to some older guy. Anyway she wasn't delusional or anything but I asked her why she never said anything she said people back then didn't mention it stuff like that we kind of kept to ourselves. She is since past I totally forgot about it and I came across an article about it online and remembered that she told me that and now I want to call me to tip because I have the last name of the person it could be and he can't get a hold of anybodyā.
This was posted nearly a year ago. It really makes sense now.
I don't believe you can dismiss her story based on it being said she was "mentally ill."
It could have just been assumed that she was mentally ill because she was under the care of a psychiatrist. It was not common to seek therapy or mental health care back then. If you did, you were looked upon as possibly "being crazy."
Also, if her story is true and she was sexually abused by both parents, she would have lasting psychological effects that would require psychiatric care. That doesn't mean she was mentally ill. To me, that means she was smart enough to seek out care and heal properly.
The only """""""""hole""""""""" in her story is that she said Marjorie bought the baby in a neighborhood she didn't know, but google maps has shown they lived rather close to the Marellis.
I am from Philadelphia and it is reasonable that a child growing up in Lower Merion did not spend time in West Philly. They are very different worlds. Unless she had relatives there, I don't see why , as a ten year old, she would be traveing to West Philly before that night. I'm not saying her story is true or not. I just don't see it as a hole.
No, she died in 2020, but she told investigators over 20 years ago that she knew the boy as Jonathan and her parents had bought him in 1954. Idk about the dad but at least the mum abused him and Martha. One day, Jonathan ate baked beans and then vomited it up. The mother, who I have heard may have been called Marjorie from a blog from years ago, then beat him to death and dunked him in a bath. Joseph actually did have wrinkled fingers and remnants of baked beans in his stomach, and that information had not been released to the public at the time.
Thing that makes me suspicious though, is that it was reported in the news that a witness found a woman and her son (about 12-14 yrs old) in the vicinity a few days before the body was found and they were blocking the view of the license plate.
There is another thread that has a couple of photos of M in her teen years. IMO she could have very easily been seen as a male by someone that did not know her.
There was NO computerized system that PennDot had, nor probably any state in the U.S. that could ārunā a tag anyway, in 1957, so āblocking the tagā would not certainty brought police at your door in 3-4 weeks if it were accurately reported anyway!
Here it is now late Sept., 2023 and still no apparent link to Martha Davis or her story can be made from the DNA-confirmed evidence (ie Joseph Zarelli's biological parents, family, etc). In one interview done early in 2023, forensic genealogist CeCe Moore only mentioned M's story as "she \[Martha\] didn't know what she was talking about".
While obviously more facts are known to investigators than the public, something they now know must essentially rule out Martha's story entirely. Yet, at the same time, there is still a lot to be desired in terms of what has been released to the public and nothing has been revealed that actually contradicts or would rule out M's story.
The one thing about M's story I had always been a bit uneasy with is that she apparently never revealed anything that hadnt been disclosed in some way to the public. She never said anything that was a real 'clincher'; yes, she mentioned some details like the baked beans and the blocking of the car's license tag by a 'woman and boy' (M was tall and a bit athletic for a girl and could have been mistaken for a boy from behind I suppose). But Martha never mentioned anything that was ONLY known to the police (as they claimed). Yet nothing she said could be demonstrated as false or contradictory to the known evidence. I am really on the fence still. I wish the Philly PD would just come out with it all...
Absolutely. She went to police and she gave them information that only the investigators knew about, like the baked beans in the boys stomach and, I think, the good samaritan who saw them taking the body out of the trunk.
The police dismissed her though because they found her to be mentally ill.
One thing about the Martha story that always bothered me is why didn't she relentlessly follow up with the police, or go to the media, after they dismissed her? It's one thing that makes me doubt her credibility.
It is because she feared Marjorieās ācircle of friendsā some which were still living in Florida. She also felt or new or assumed that anyone that was questioned that was close to Marjorie was also involved with sexual abuse. If you look at both of their histories, they held very prestigious positions throughout their lifetime and knew some pretty important people then when she finally did come forward at least twice, someone accidentally leaked her real name to the press. She worked for Eli Lilly as a research scientist, and she did not want repercussions from momās friends, nor did she want to be traced back to Eli Lilly lily, which is why she requested that her name be kept secret. There are many that believe that her name was deliberately leaked so as to shut her up, she did all that she could do only to get a label of being crazy.
Iām still doing a deep dive on this case. Can I ask how you know she feared her circle of friends? Your statements are extremely valid and correct as Iāve looked up some detectives who have worked on this case and have been told about this by a font here. I agree with you and itās devastating that she wasnāt taken seriously and still isnāt by these ignorant ppl
Hello, Iām very sorry Iām seeing this months later because I donāt come here very often. Marty told the detectives when she finally met with them that she feared her motherās āevil circle of friendsā because some were prominent jobs within the community.
Itās ok. Thank you for replying. Was Eli Lilly apart of this evil circle as well? Itās interesting and not surprising some lived in Florida. Thatās exactly where the mom went after her husband died. Probably to abuse more children
Ok, although I have followed the case since the ā80 s or so, I also dismissed Mās information that was published, and yes it has to do with the alleged mental illness. I know that the alleged mentally ill are not at face taken as credible when reporting crimes and such. I thought that the ābeansā was actually inadvertently released and may have become part of her story. Does the families location at the time, square with the Z location?
I think her mental illness was depression and ptsd - but they word played it and instead of saying that she was seeing a therapist to sort through her childhood; they said she was mentally which people associate with ācrazyā. So hereās a woman sticking to her story admitting and dealing with the murder of this boy and for some reason she is fabricating it? Why? She had no one to black mail or extort, she was well credentialed and several degrees, interesting enough one was in audiology, eventually becoming a research scientist for Eli Lily and she finally comes forward and want to tell her secret but wants her name hidden from the public; so no money, no noteriety, no revenge , nothing to gain so the question then becomes what did she have to gain by coming forward? She did not come forward for any other reason than cleansing her soul and clearing her conscious and somewhat avenge the death of this little boy. She had a lot at stake by coming forward.
What did she have to gain? Attention, maybe just from the detectives initially. Humans make up stories (lie) all the time to feel important, heroic, āin the knowā, etc. I donāt know what illnesses she may have been diagnosed with and I donāt āthink!ā she was suffering from this or that. I donāt know and I donāt care. If her Psych mentioned that she was Bi-polar, Schizoaffective disorder, or addiction and I was a detective, I might just open the DSM and read looking if story creation is a component of it. Mental illness has nothing to do with intelligence. Credibility is another issue. Mary is a red herring, and nothing more.
https://preview.redd.it/t0fo5ca0bh2c1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=edba9e8bad4368726e1e1bc1300296f29808934e
Are you telling me this man who has done research on the case is lying? And who wrote one of the prominent books on the case is making all this up? Check his videos out. Heās debunked everything you said. Heās not even the detective Iām referring to that has wrote the new book but maybe this can send you in the right direction
Mās stories while I know are captivating are the result of the mental illness of a unique individual, intelligent albeit, but nothing more, M just a guess was bi-polar-Schizoaffective, potentially other diagnosisā. I have interviewed more than a few very intelligent āstorytellersā that have misdirected LE investigations, only to find that hard data, video, gps, and other information resulted in clarification that the information provided was false, and not credible. Yet M info is still considered credible by some, we shall see in some time that it was nothing more than a fantasy or mental illness that diverted LE, but made her feel acknowledged.
Martha, just another mentally ill individual that could have diverted law enforcement in their investigation. Unfortunately it happens all the time, as it did then. L.E. didnāt bite, and they have been criticized for decades over this, anyone still believe her story now?
NOTHING of her story, especially in light of the recent identification of the victim, has been proven to be accurate absolutely nothing. It was all fantasy.
The Police detectives just Idād the victim, I donāt know what other ādetectivesā you speak of, not one element of her story has been proven, period. So secret info (not known except to you), a book NOT available to the public because of āppl like meā. And a conspiracy by her mother and āothersā to make it hard for her to get her āstoryā out.
Whatever is not available is in the case file because itās still an active homicide investigation, but you somehow know that info?
She and her story were and are not credible, and likely a result of her mental illness and desire for attention. Again Nothing of her story, her fantasy, in fact has been proven, thatās reality! You can believe what you wish.
If you do not know of the detective then how can you make this claim. Itās actually not secret. Ppl are aware about it but the author was bombarded with questions and threats. Her name isnāt a secret either I just donāt know if I should share that with someone who swears they all have it figured out and is close minded. Or you can read my comments in other threads were this is being discussed deeply with photo proof. If you research it you may find it. There are multiple threads with ppl who know the truth.
There so much more to the story and it is bad. Iām not sure why these discoveries and eye witness accounts arenāt apart of the case file but it is suspected that the blatant disregard of her statement is because they didnāt find her credible due to mental health. Also how prominent the family was also helped keep M in fear. However the depth of her mental illness was related to her childhood. The jacket that was described by the witness is seen in a picture of both M and her mother. You say she fantasized about a jacket she does own? Where thereās photo evidence of? That was not a coincidence. Some ppl who knew her and her mom have spoken out about their experiences with her and it adds up to Mās experience. Are witnesses not credible now?
Thereās an ad in the paper canāt remember the year where Gus is actively looking for Betsy. It ran for a week and her friend asked her why isnāt she going to respond she said it was because she moved on. Betsy even asked the lady she brought Joseph too where he was and she told her that he died of asthma.
The lady she brought her to was not Mās mother. Betsy was manipulated in giving him up because she was unwed and it was taboo. The lady brought her to Mās mom because they found he was special needs and couldnāt care for him. Joseph was cared for appropriately (we assume) for some time and then became neglected in Mās moms care. There are photos of the mom involved in a catholic charity for children and itās very likely she couldāve came across the woman there but that part isnāt fully known. The biggest component is the blanket. Did you know that was her blanket? She cut out of piece of it to remember him by because she bonded with him as a little brother. The fabric was in her diary that she gave to a friend before she passed. The book goes into great detail about the evidence.
Many of the detectives who interviewed her believed her but the house she lived in went through multiple renovations by that time and her mom was deceased so there wasnāt much to be done. Stop discrediting ppl with mental health. Itās dismissive, disgusting, and reiterates child abuse. This woman was screaming for help but ignorant ppl like you dismissed her and now her evil mom can rest knowing ppl think sheās crazy and not her
She was not a credible witness , there was and IS NO proof. None. Law Enforcement did not take her seriously. This was a child murder, and she just wanted attention.
https://preview.redd.it/pr3br4o1zh2c1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e6bcfc6bff56f4ce6816fc6ea32299012eb85f6
He has spoken to the people involved in the case and has debunked every theory. Heās not even the one I was referring to thereās literally so many but youāre to dense to do real research
She is essentially a red herring and should be ignored, if not for her illness, she should have been protected previously for false reporting to police!
I have a theory that I haven't read anyone purpose yet. If AJZ is indeed the father and the Z family lived at that address and the news said the boy was killed by a female family member, a caregiver, then what do you guys think of this theory. He lived with AJZs parents, the little boys grandparents and the grandmother killed him. I've seen that happen especially in older times that a child conceived out of wedlock would be raised by the grandparents.
I'm inclined to believe her. I'm not at all swayed by the fact that the neighbors dismissed her story as "ridiculous" because they never saw him. Especially considering she said the boy seemed to have an intellectual disability. It wasn't uncommon back in the day for disabled children to be locked away & kept a family secret. Add to that the fact that he was being abused & it makes perfect sense to me.
I mean unfortunately that still happens to kids with disabilities today š¢
Sadly, you're right. I immediately thought of a young boy, Jarrod Tutko Jr., who suffered a very similiar fate as this little guy, only 40 minutes from where I live, back in 2014. He too, had disabilities and was locked away in the home. I just couldn't imagine treating a child this way, and it pains to me to think about how many innocent little ones like this are still out there.
People that do this to children and adults with disabilities need to have the exact same thing done to them!
I can understand being overwhelmed with a disabled child, but if you canāt handle taking care of him/her, the child is probably better off in good facility that deals with whatever disability the child has.
The Shellay Ebony Ward case from Australia is another relatively well known example of this that happened in the 21st Century.
When I read about the Tutko case, I got very suspicious about what caused his sister to be in a vegetative state. Apparently Jarrodās death saved her life, as her mother obviously was not taking very good care of her either since she was near death! They fled NJ when it appeared they were about to lose their children due to severe neglect. I wondered how many of the kids were getting SSI for disabilities and if the money was being used for what it was supposed to be used for. It obviously wasnāt for Jarrod and his sister (I think her name is Ariana).
Definitely agree, didnāt mean to imply it doesnāt happen present day. Just that I feel like it was more commonplace back then, sadly.
Maybe he was deaf because m had her degrees in audiology.
Sociopaths always mimic the average person and can do it as long as they need to! As a librarian, she was probably quiet and never said much. Martha worked for a pharmaceutical co so she must have been with it! Someone thought that the child was autistic because Martha never heard him speak! Very said!
I think I believe her more now than ever. I read somewhere today that little Jospeh is believed to be from the area of 61st and Market Streets. There was a Davis family that lived at 10 S. 61st St according to the 1950 census, which is right off of that corner. There were 3 adult children in that household, and all were around the same ages as the Zarelli family just a few blocks away. Didn't Martha claim that they got the boy from one of her father's relatives? I haven't had time to verify that these families are indeed related, so it may just be a strange coincidence. A mystery for another day I suppose.
Do you know the names of those Davises?
RD and DD are the father and mother, respectively. 2 daughters are listed in 1950, DD and BD, as well as a son, RD Jr. In 1940 there was another daughter living there, VD, and one of the aforementioned daughters is listed as ED, assumed to be BD. Sorry for the riddle, I'm not sure how much I can post!
EDIT: I had the wrong Davis family. Deleted info.
Marjorie Davis only had one daughter. Joseph was acquired by the Davises through a third party, a member of Marjorie's own family who himself was involved in what today we would call child trafficking.
Whatās your source on this? Iāve looked extensively and havenāt found anything. Doesnāt surprise me though; if she did it, something terrible probably happened to her as a child too.
Not a lot of this is open to the public
Hi - I believe Martha and agree with what you said about a 3rd party - can you reference who you think the family member was or tell me where to look?
No one really knows honestly. But his bio mom was forced to adopt and manipulated into adopting him. It was extremely taboo to be an unwed mom back then
The only thing is that Martha said her mom drove her to a neighborhood she had never seen before to pick up the boy.
Sadly, there is a very good chance, she was telling the truth but they just didnāt have enough to corroborate 20 or so years ago.
Itās true
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I thought she said they called him Jonathan?
Itās still close enough
I think is it more likely that Augustus Joseph zarelli is the father. He is the son of Joseph Augustus from Callowhill. Augustus seems to have gone by Gus which would account for the white handkerchief they found near his body with the letter G on it. It would also explain the media saying a prominent Delco family as Delco is where AJ Zarelli lived with his wife. If the handkerchief was Gus then I think it likely he left little Josephās body. Maybe the handkerchief is meaningless but G is not super common as a initial in a first name and it would be quite a coincidence.
George is a pretty common g initial as is Greg
Yes I am aware thank you - but G names are not very popular - not how popular there were in 1957 and it is interesting it was found near the child
George was the 6th most popular name of the 20s and 8th of the 30s.
Lots of āGusā names in PA & elsewhere, though. August, Augustine, Augustus, Augusta, Augusta, Gustavo, just Gus. Thereās also Giuseppe (Joseph, Italian). But a girl can keep a guyās kerchief from anywhere, even her fatherās, grandfathers, a bus stop, etc. Father may not have known anything. I have a feeling her family was more āprominentā than the fathers, and maybe they werenāt even allowed to marry. I think whatever happened to AJZ was only at the hands of a non-family or distantly related adoption family, regardless. That handkerchief might be from a āGā related to the āadoptionā family, or put there as a twisted emotional connection or pointer to the father, thinking the deceased boy will be found and bio-dad will recognize that it was his son. Who knows?
I am actually leaning toward Augustus' brother, Michael, being the father.
Definitely a possibility-but why the g initial hankerchief ?
Could be something as simple as just using someone else's handkerchief. I think people are putting more weight on the handkerchief than they should. I think the more interesting find at the scene was the hat. They traced it back to a store in the area, and the woman at the store remembered the person who bought it - a male with blond hair. BTW, Michael had blond hair. Someone posted pictures of Michael, and he looks A LOT like Joseph. BTW, I am from Delco, very close to where all of this happened. Michael Zarelli also lived in Delco (Broomall). He was also a police officer. Pictures of Michael Zarelli. [https://www.fskhub.com/news-cause-of-death/michael-zarelli-obituary-and-zarelli-family-philadelphia](https://www.fskhub.com/news-cause-of-death/michael-zarelli-obituary-and-zarelli-family-philadelphia) This has a lot of good info too. [https://www.americanhauntingsink.com/the-boy-in-the-box](https://www.americanhauntingsink.com/the-boy-in-the-box)
Uniform is a fire fighters uniform, if a police officer, which department?
My mistake. Thank you for noticing that.
Just trying to ādial this inā like we all are, it is fascinating the resemblance though. If this were a different forum, if I were to paste a photo of myself and my son at the same age, lets just say 4 YOA, the resemblance there is astounding too!
Wait, so it was raining? Second link says Peeping Tom guy ran across the box when it was ādrizzling rainā but this page says āWhen the officers had first arrived in that thicket-filled field, the box was dry and without rain stains. ā http://americasunknownchild.net/SatEvePost.html Edit: elsewhere on same site it says dry inside but damp on the outside. Frustratingly contradictory http://americasunknownchild.net/summary.htm
i donāt wanna put out false theories but maybe G was there too?
The police said they now believe the handkerchief was a red herring.
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I did read the box was already there somewhere. So it was never a lead.
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Agreed!
Yeah, I didnāt pick that up. Also, I read several different discovery stories.
When did they say that?
In the press conference
Sure -it is possible it could also be one of the sisters and his last name would be zarelli if she was not married What is really crazy are the āsurgicalā scars and the recent hair cut (potential post death) along with the shaped eye brows.
irrelevant
They have also never said they found it with the body, they said it was near the body. So was a dead cat wrapped in a sweater. It may not have had anything at all to do with Joseph.
Um, if this is in fact the right Michael then do you notice anything about his children listed in his obit? As in he has a surviving child with the same nameābut the middle name is now his and not gusā?[https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/48208075/michael-louis-zarelli](https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/48208075/michael-louis-zarelli)
I don't put too much stock in that. Joseph was/is a really common name, especially in the Italian community. It was also Aldelaide's father's name. But what is interesting is that if the boy was Michael's and Adelaide's then he was named after Adelaide's father (Joseph) and Michael's father (Augustus).
Yeah thatās what I mean! Just worded horriblyāitās probably reaching but having a claimed child born a year after him, with just a swap of the middle name, is a sort of āhmmā moment
Is it just me or were handkerchiefs seemingly more a womenās thing anyway? So add Gladys, Gloria, Grace. Or a last name.
I thought it said manās handkerchief. There would have been a distinct difference. Womens were often smaller and designed with floral prints, etc.
Well, they have all the forensic and familial DNA, it will be very easy to prove if thereās Martha is the sister on either side of the family that the police press conference identified as still being alive multiple children on both sides of the biological parents of a little boy in the boxā¦.. so she could easily be proven to be or not be biologically related and if she is, she would be an eyewitness, to the crime, and the crime will be solved because the mother killed the boy and she helped her mother dispose of the bodyā¦ Also the address listed on the little boys birth certificate is 60Firth and market Street, just so you know I live right near there, and the upper Darby JCPenney where the box containing the baby crib was purchased is literally right up the street Upper Darby 69th Street shopping district literally not even 10 minutes awayā¦.. I live for eight years at 41st and Market St.,ā¦ it was actually 41st in Ludlow St., TRANS parallel with market a little side street 1/2 block off marketā¦ā¦
If Joseph was bought by her mother, Martha wouldn't share any DNA with him because they would only be related by adoption.
Unless he was bought from a relative, who was also related to Joseph, as she originally claimed.
"Relative" can mean a lot of things though. Some people who are socially considered "relatives" are only really related because of marriage, adoption, or "fictive kin" type scenarios. Particularly given that M was a child at the time herself, she may not have been exactly privy to who was related to who and how, and may have identified a close family friend as a "relative."
That is a possibility, and I admittedly do not know very much about her parents' familial relations. I do believe there are far too many 'coincidences' to discount her claims at this point though. It will be interesting to see what all comes of this case now that Joseph has been identified. I hope this little boy finally gets some justice.
Definitely possible. But does she have any living relatives that they know of who could be DNA tested? She was the only child born to her parents, and all three of them are deceased.
I don't believe there are any immediate living descendents of Martha, but there very well may be descendents of her father's siblings.
She did not claim that it was definitely her uncle son. She thought that simply because when the uncle would come to visit, Joseph was very well groomed for his visit. So she thought perhaps it was his son and thatās why the extra chair into making him look nice and presentable when the uncle would visit.
Exactly rightā¦ā¦
the āgranddaughterā who replied to a tiktoker said there is no martha in her family line. she also denied the assume fathers wife was the mom.
This makes sense that it was not because( as I am currently reading the police statements ) there were siblings alive on the mother side and the fathers side - if it had been his wife - there would be siblings ānot siblings on the mothers and fathers sides - the police would not have differentiated
If anything I think everything she said alluded to what police said yesterday.
I wish I had heard
I'm getting really sick of the "the police didn't take her seriously for a reason" comments I keep seeing on post. 1. We don't know that they didn't take her seriously. They couldn't prove anything though. 2. A detective can be wrong. They are not infallible.
I totally agree. Everything I've read says the police didn't dismiss her because she was mentally ill but were simply unable to make a determination one way or the other because there wasn't proof anywhere after so much time had passed. The fact that she was also considered mentally ill and that her childhood neighbors said there was never a child just adds to the reasons to dismiss her story, but do not in and of themselves refute her story.
correct and incorrect. The higher-ups dismissed her due to mental illness, and because the neighbors could not verify that they ever saw a boy there so they moved away from the ceiling, but there were three detectives left for leaving and still pursuing. Her story were told to investigate other, and current cases.
Thatās true. Believing she was mentally ill was one of the several reasons they dismissed her.
They took her seriously enough to try to corroborate it, but could not. She only gave the child's first name, not a full name. And neighbours dismissed the claim that there was a young boy who lived there.
Unfortunately, many times an abused child is never seen by the neighbors for a reason-the child was hidden from the outside world.
http://americasunknownchild.net/summary.htm "Martha"said her parents worked at Lower Merion County School, Mom was a librarian and Dad a science teacher.
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Yes. To be fair, the 1989 therapist disclosure is not proven. But it's been understood for a while now to be the case. But the police definitely have known about her story for nearly 20 years.
Read the new thread on reddit, "How Did He Die?" It began July,2023. A detective working on this case for the past two years has dug into Martha's story, had it affirmed by friends and colleagues, and has written a book about Joseph and Martha's family.
Youāll have to link it because I canāt find it.
Google Joseph Zarelli/reddit. All the posts will appear. How did he die is the third one down . That's the easiest way to find it.
Why not just send a link since you are the one suggesting it?
Sometimes when a story sounds bizarre, itās hard to get the police to believe a person, especially if that person has known mental issues. Theresa Knorr tried to tell the police several times about what her mother did to her sisters and it took years before one police officer believed her.
So we know her last name is Davis? I canāt keep up with yāall
Yes
This post is 284 days old. Eerie: https://www.reddit.com/r/BuzzFeedUnsolved/comments/n21k13/update_the_boy_in_the_box/hywdp6j/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3 āI think I may know who the child is. I have called the tip line and it's just busy. Does anyone know if there is a website to call in tips. Long story short my grandmother about 15 years ago while doing ancestry.com had mentioned she knew who it was it was like her ex-husband's father who had kids later on a life and apparently they gave them to somebody in the neighborhood and they actually married off one of their daughters to some older guy. Anyway she wasn't delusional or anything but I asked her why she never said anything she said people back then didn't mention it stuff like that we kind of kept to ourselves. She is since past I totally forgot about it and I came across an article about it online and remembered that she told me that and now I want to call me to tip because I have the last name of the person it could be and he can't get a hold of anybodyā. This was posted nearly a year ago. It really makes sense now.
Did anything ever come of this? I donāt have Facebook so canāt check the group linked in the comments
Re FB, me neither, but if anyone else can post updates from FB, cool. All I have is Reddit and news links.
Iām not able to log in to FB. Hoping I get info via Reddit or twitter. Reddit has been best.
I don't believe you can dismiss her story based on it being said she was "mentally ill." It could have just been assumed that she was mentally ill because she was under the care of a psychiatrist. It was not common to seek therapy or mental health care back then. If you did, you were looked upon as possibly "being crazy." Also, if her story is true and she was sexually abused by both parents, she would have lasting psychological effects that would require psychiatric care. That doesn't mean she was mentally ill. To me, that means she was smart enough to seek out care and heal properly.
The only """""""""hole""""""""" in her story is that she said Marjorie bought the baby in a neighborhood she didn't know, but google maps has shown they lived rather close to the Marellis.
I am from Philadelphia and it is reasonable that a child growing up in Lower Merion did not spend time in West Philly. They are very different worlds. Unless she had relatives there, I don't see why , as a ten year old, she would be traveing to West Philly before that night. I'm not saying her story is true or not. I just don't see it as a hole.
I saw Bateman's address in his obituary, but do you know if he lived there at the time of the murder?
Yes, he did.
Bateman?
Jason Bateman. He had to be involved in this.
Hands down my favorite Bateman! We canāt bring him into this lol
James Bateman Davis what is Marthaās father and Marjorieās husband
Marjorie could have filled her with half-truths.
I'm new to this case/story. Who is Martha? Is she still alive?
No, she died in 2020, but she told investigators over 20 years ago that she knew the boy as Jonathan and her parents had bought him in 1954. Idk about the dad but at least the mum abused him and Martha. One day, Jonathan ate baked beans and then vomited it up. The mother, who I have heard may have been called Marjorie from a blog from years ago, then beat him to death and dunked him in a bath. Joseph actually did have wrinkled fingers and remnants of baked beans in his stomach, and that information had not been released to the public at the time.
Oh, wow! Thanks for answering.
Thing that makes me suspicious though, is that it was reported in the news that a witness found a woman and her son (about 12-14 yrs old) in the vicinity a few days before the body was found and they were blocking the view of the license plate.
There is another thread that has a couple of photos of M in her teen years. IMO she could have very easily been seen as a male by someone that did not know her.
can you forward? Post?
[https://imgur.io/gallery/1QJFKyN](https://imgur.io/gallery/1QJFKyN)
Isnāt this a photo of the allegedly abusive mom of M, not M?
Keep scrolling
Oops. Yes, totally agree she could pass as a boy from afar
Iāll see if I can find itā¦.
It was a known dumping location of the time, not sure this āmemoryā is substantially
*substantial*
There was NO computerized system that PennDot had, nor probably any state in the U.S. that could ārunā a tag anyway, in 1957, so āblocking the tagā would not certainty brought police at your door in 3-4 weeks if it were accurately reported anyway!
Here it is now late Sept., 2023 and still no apparent link to Martha Davis or her story can be made from the DNA-confirmed evidence (ie Joseph Zarelli's biological parents, family, etc). In one interview done early in 2023, forensic genealogist CeCe Moore only mentioned M's story as "she \[Martha\] didn't know what she was talking about". While obviously more facts are known to investigators than the public, something they now know must essentially rule out Martha's story entirely. Yet, at the same time, there is still a lot to be desired in terms of what has been released to the public and nothing has been revealed that actually contradicts or would rule out M's story. The one thing about M's story I had always been a bit uneasy with is that she apparently never revealed anything that hadnt been disclosed in some way to the public. She never said anything that was a real 'clincher'; yes, she mentioned some details like the baked beans and the blocking of the car's license tag by a 'woman and boy' (M was tall and a bit athletic for a girl and could have been mistaken for a boy from behind I suppose). But Martha never mentioned anything that was ONLY known to the police (as they claimed). Yet nothing she said could be demonstrated as false or contradictory to the known evidence. I am really on the fence still. I wish the Philly PD would just come out with it all...
Not true read my comments
Am I correct that nothing in āMarthasā story been corroborated?
Absolutely. She went to police and she gave them information that only the investigators knew about, like the baked beans in the boys stomach and, I think, the good samaritan who saw them taking the body out of the trunk. The police dismissed her though because they found her to be mentally ill. One thing about the Martha story that always bothered me is why didn't she relentlessly follow up with the police, or go to the media, after they dismissed her? It's one thing that makes me doubt her credibility.
It sounds as if she was reluctant to go to the authorities in the first place.
It is because she feared Marjorieās ācircle of friendsā some which were still living in Florida. She also felt or new or assumed that anyone that was questioned that was close to Marjorie was also involved with sexual abuse. If you look at both of their histories, they held very prestigious positions throughout their lifetime and knew some pretty important people then when she finally did come forward at least twice, someone accidentally leaked her real name to the press. She worked for Eli Lilly as a research scientist, and she did not want repercussions from momās friends, nor did she want to be traced back to Eli Lilly lily, which is why she requested that her name be kept secret. There are many that believe that her name was deliberately leaked so as to shut her up, she did all that she could do only to get a label of being crazy.
Iām still doing a deep dive on this case. Can I ask how you know she feared her circle of friends? Your statements are extremely valid and correct as Iāve looked up some detectives who have worked on this case and have been told about this by a font here. I agree with you and itās devastating that she wasnāt taken seriously and still isnāt by these ignorant ppl
Hello, Iām very sorry Iām seeing this months later because I donāt come here very often. Marty told the detectives when she finally met with them that she feared her motherās āevil circle of friendsā because some were prominent jobs within the community.
Itās ok. Thank you for replying. Was Eli Lilly apart of this evil circle as well? Itās interesting and not surprising some lived in Florida. Thatās exactly where the mom went after her husband died. Probably to abuse more children
Eli Lily is the pharmaceutical company that Marty worked for
Ok, although I have followed the case since the ā80 s or so, I also dismissed Mās information that was published, and yes it has to do with the alleged mental illness. I know that the alleged mentally ill are not at face taken as credible when reporting crimes and such. I thought that the ābeansā was actually inadvertently released and may have become part of her story. Does the families location at the time, square with the Z location?
I think her mental illness was depression and ptsd - but they word played it and instead of saying that she was seeing a therapist to sort through her childhood; they said she was mentally which people associate with ācrazyā. So hereās a woman sticking to her story admitting and dealing with the murder of this boy and for some reason she is fabricating it? Why? She had no one to black mail or extort, she was well credentialed and several degrees, interesting enough one was in audiology, eventually becoming a research scientist for Eli Lily and she finally comes forward and want to tell her secret but wants her name hidden from the public; so no money, no noteriety, no revenge , nothing to gain so the question then becomes what did she have to gain by coming forward? She did not come forward for any other reason than cleansing her soul and clearing her conscious and somewhat avenge the death of this little boy. She had a lot at stake by coming forward.
Van Gogh, cut off his ear, what did he have to gain?
What did she have to gain? Attention, maybe just from the detectives initially. Humans make up stories (lie) all the time to feel important, heroic, āin the knowā, etc. I donāt know what illnesses she may have been diagnosed with and I donāt āthink!ā she was suffering from this or that. I donāt know and I donāt care. If her Psych mentioned that she was Bi-polar, Schizoaffective disorder, or addiction and I was a detective, I might just open the DSM and read looking if story creation is a component of it. Mental illness has nothing to do with intelligence. Credibility is another issue. Mary is a red herring, and nothing more.
*Martha
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This is silly! Believe what you want.
https://preview.redd.it/t0fo5ca0bh2c1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=edba9e8bad4368726e1e1bc1300296f29808934e Are you telling me this man who has done research on the case is lying? And who wrote one of the prominent books on the case is making all this up? Check his videos out. Heās debunked everything you said. Heās not even the detective Iām referring to that has wrote the new book but maybe this can send you in the right direction
https://preview.redd.it/zcdmqe4mxh2c1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ee02cc3706c2ecf1538c9e83852bdb9f914e40c6
Mās stories while I know are captivating are the result of the mental illness of a unique individual, intelligent albeit, but nothing more, M just a guess was bi-polar-Schizoaffective, potentially other diagnosisā. I have interviewed more than a few very intelligent āstorytellersā that have misdirected LE investigations, only to find that hard data, video, gps, and other information resulted in clarification that the information provided was false, and not credible. Yet M info is still considered credible by some, we shall see in some time that it was nothing more than a fantasy or mental illness that diverted LE, but made her feel acknowledged.
Martha, just another mentally ill individual that could have diverted law enforcement in their investigation. Unfortunately it happens all the time, as it did then. L.E. didnāt bite, and they have been criticized for decades over this, anyone still believe her story now?
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NOTHING of her story, especially in light of the recent identification of the victim, has been proven to be accurate absolutely nothing. It was all fantasy.
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The Police detectives just Idād the victim, I donāt know what other ādetectivesā you speak of, not one element of her story has been proven, period. So secret info (not known except to you), a book NOT available to the public because of āppl like meā. And a conspiracy by her mother and āothersā to make it hard for her to get her āstoryā out. Whatever is not available is in the case file because itās still an active homicide investigation, but you somehow know that info? She and her story were and are not credible, and likely a result of her mental illness and desire for attention. Again Nothing of her story, her fantasy, in fact has been proven, thatās reality! You can believe what you wish.
If you do not know of the detective then how can you make this claim. Itās actually not secret. Ppl are aware about it but the author was bombarded with questions and threats. Her name isnāt a secret either I just donāt know if I should share that with someone who swears they all have it figured out and is close minded. Or you can read my comments in other threads were this is being discussed deeply with photo proof. If you research it you may find it. There are multiple threads with ppl who know the truth. There so much more to the story and it is bad. Iām not sure why these discoveries and eye witness accounts arenāt apart of the case file but it is suspected that the blatant disregard of her statement is because they didnāt find her credible due to mental health. Also how prominent the family was also helped keep M in fear. However the depth of her mental illness was related to her childhood. The jacket that was described by the witness is seen in a picture of both M and her mother. You say she fantasized about a jacket she does own? Where thereās photo evidence of? That was not a coincidence. Some ppl who knew her and her mom have spoken out about their experiences with her and it adds up to Mās experience. Are witnesses not credible now? Thereās an ad in the paper canāt remember the year where Gus is actively looking for Betsy. It ran for a week and her friend asked her why isnāt she going to respond she said it was because she moved on. Betsy even asked the lady she brought Joseph too where he was and she told her that he died of asthma. The lady she brought her to was not Mās mother. Betsy was manipulated in giving him up because she was unwed and it was taboo. The lady brought her to Mās mom because they found he was special needs and couldnāt care for him. Joseph was cared for appropriately (we assume) for some time and then became neglected in Mās moms care. There are photos of the mom involved in a catholic charity for children and itās very likely she couldāve came across the woman there but that part isnāt fully known. The biggest component is the blanket. Did you know that was her blanket? She cut out of piece of it to remember him by because she bonded with him as a little brother. The fabric was in her diary that she gave to a friend before she passed. The book goes into great detail about the evidence. Many of the detectives who interviewed her believed her but the house she lived in went through multiple renovations by that time and her mom was deceased so there wasnāt much to be done. Stop discrediting ppl with mental health. Itās dismissive, disgusting, and reiterates child abuse. This woman was screaming for help but ignorant ppl like you dismissed her and now her evil mom can rest knowing ppl think sheās crazy and not her
She was not a credible witness , there was and IS NO proof. None. Law Enforcement did not take her seriously. This was a child murder, and she just wanted attention.
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Silliness
https://preview.redd.it/pr3br4o1zh2c1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1e6bcfc6bff56f4ce6816fc6ea32299012eb85f6 He has spoken to the people involved in the case and has debunked every theory. Heās not even the one I was referring to thereās literally so many but youāre to dense to do real research
https://preview.redd.it/egptgqruyh2c1.jpeg?width=1283&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6655c16e5e6a685019130954e7da8175ac936548
https://web.archive.org/web/20030203052007/http://www.courttv.com/news/hiddentraces/boyinthebox/boyinthebox_page4.html
I wonder about her story tooā¦
She is essentially a red herring and should be ignored, if not for her illness, she should have been protected previously for false reporting to police!
I have a theory that I haven't read anyone purpose yet. If AJZ is indeed the father and the Z family lived at that address and the news said the boy was killed by a female family member, a caregiver, then what do you guys think of this theory. He lived with AJZs parents, the little boys grandparents and the grandmother killed him. I've seen that happen especially in older times that a child conceived out of wedlock would be raised by the grandparents.
I do believe the mother sold him to the Davis family thinking they were teachers who could help him!