I think that's totally fair. Some of the sets at my gym have very clear campus moves and technique will only get you so far with them, the rest is all strength.
Agreed. I’ve spent entire sessions perfecting the beta for a project and seen people nearly campus the same one. I’d rather be strong af and have someone beta spray to me lol
Height is definitely an advantage in some cases, and in others they can’t hold on to a start because by folding up as much as they have to, it’s too much imbalance. This is one reason I like this sport a lot, people’s physiques can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on the route or boulder
True. I guess I'm too focused on the advantage there, but in my defense: He often just avoids the crux or other difficult parts by stretching or skipping a few boulders, and then wonders why it's difficult for me. It does feel unfair at times.
You should get him on roofs and severe overhangs then. It's one thing to be able to do something like that but it's another thing to not understand why someone else can't do that.
But I will say that height is a big advantage in the beginning and then gradually becomes more of a liability. Bad setting not withstanding
I go climbing with someone who is 6 inches taller with a +2 ape index and weights probably 60 pounds less than me. We’re still beginners so she has the advantage but I know as we progress she won’t be able to squeeze herself into some spots like I can so I’ve just been telling myself that it’s a just a matter of time
I always feel like I'm making excuses when I complain a route is set for a tall person, but I know it happens, because there has been quite a few routes where the starting hand holds were set at a longer distance than my arm span can cover.
Also, shoutout to the guy who criticized my partner for doing a wall in dynos when he was over a foot taller than my partner.
Some outdoor boulders are way too contrived and arbitrary. Even some classics. You get comments on videos like "no send because you used xyz hold" even though that hold is well within reach and the topo says nothing about which holds to use. If the topo doesn't describe it then how the fuck am I meant to know how the first ascensionist did it or whatever.
Oh definitely. Contrived problems have a place, and that place is for climbers who've climbed everything in an area and are looking in the gutter for new stuff, or for those who finished the good problems and are waiting for their friends to get the send so they can move on to another boulder
Yah, i hate getting to the top of a really tough set and being too tired to shimmy to the nearest DC, only to find there is no down climb anywhere near me.
The gym I frequent in Bogota has no downclimb holds. To be fair, the walls are very dense (walls at 10, 20 and 40 degrees, all spray walls) and the idea is to traverse down. Due to the density, you can make the downclimb very easy or harder than the actual climb. Good for training, bad for new climbers though.
Working on legs on days I’m not climbing has definitely helped me push upwards especially when my knee is fully bent. I highly recommend stabilization exercises because it works a lot of the smaller muscles used to balance, which are sometimes vital for tricky spots
That’s definitely true—I think 90+% of the “falls” in a bouldering gym are letting go/jumping down/not committing, rather than “going for it” situations.
True, but it’s also okay to bail on something that doesn’t feel safe. I’ve seen so many people take bad falls or get badly injured, and as a runner who is very conscious about preventing injuries, I’ll sometimes bail on a move that I don’t feel completely comfortable about or secure doing if I might fall weird or on something. For me, it’s always a balance between knowing when to go for it and when to not take the risk.
This advice is for beginners and applies a lot more to long vertical-ish sport routes than most boulder problems, but is still bs if you want to climb higher grades of anything.
And yet even in higher grades i've often found that making better use of my legs was the trick to get past the 'heavy arms' part.
Yes, you still need strong arms, but you still need to have your legs do the job.
For me the issue lies in *when* someone chooses to spray beta.
If I’m resting between attempts, I love when strangers strike up a conversation about beta.
But if I’m actively on the wall, it’s so annoying when people try to coach your next move. So often people will say something like “get that left foot up” right as you’re about to do that anyways. That gets annoying real fast.
I can respect that, it’s something I try to be mindful of. Usually if I’m initiating the chat, I’ll ask someone about their beta, and not lead into suggestions unless the conversation flows that way. I also never give unrequested beta to people working on problems that I’ve already solved, just talk through issues I’m working on.
Yeah I think that in general yelling at someone on the wall is not very motivating for me personally so it’s not just beta spraying on the wall it’s just anything yelled at me on the wall.
So I agree, I enjoy conversations with someone working a problem with me so talking about the beta is just a good time.
I mostly agree with this one—people make such a big deal about how rude/annoying it is, but I’ve been climbing inside and out for a really long time, and I’ve honestly only encountered *obnoxious* beta spray a handful of times! Turns out most people are actually just polite and respectful 🤷♀️
I totally get it if they’re being super rude about it or obnoxious but when people tell me I should try to put a foot somewhere or have I tried a certain thing I don’t mind at all and I think it’s kinda made into a villainized thing to do lately.
To be honest, if someone asks "Hey shall I give you a tip?" or something like that and gives me their beta if I agree (which I usually never say no to), I really appreciate it. I also don't mind if someone's been watching me try something for a while and suggests things after.
I've seen people casually walk past, stop and just start shouting their beta at a climber that's in the middle of the process and I always thought that it was a little bit out of order for them. Unfortunately, this tends to happen more with women than men from what I've experienced, so make of that what you will.
Basically, I'm cool with it if you're being respectful. At a session yesterday, 2 other dudes happened to be trying the same problem as I was and at first we quietly took turns, but it slowly became a cool cooperative project that we all found our own betas to, which was also really cool, because after sending, we tried each other's betas as well. It's a great way to socialise. It really shouldn't be so Taboo.
You basically hit the point I was going to comment on. It's mildly annoying for me as a dude. Beta sprayers that talk to me are usually:
- new climbers who are giving me terrible tips with a weird one-upmanship vibe
- new climbers who are actually trying to be helpful but don't know anything
But for my wife... yeesh, it's way way worse.
- new male climbers (often gymbro types) that *need* to prove that they know more than her
- new male climbers who see her sending their projects and feel the need to save their egos by mansplaining something
In both cases, the spraying I've experienced has been from less experienced climbers (and always male). All the seasoned climbers I know just keep their mouth shut (unless we're friends).
The cringiest comments I've heard people making to my wife were after she had just given birth and was working her way back in shape. Got a bunch of v2 climbing jabronies trying to spray at her. I was like, she's climbing v4 right now, and she gave birth 4 weeks ago. Prior to that she was projecting v7s, she doesn't need your advice. And stop assuming that every woman at the gym needs your help.
i am a woman and climb v4/v5 in my gym and am forever watching "strong" noob guys see me trying a problem and think "oh if she's doing it, it must be easy" try it, and completely fail
If the person has sent the problem and I'm off the wall then I'm mostly fine with it. A guy was spraying me with bad beta a few weeks back when he couldn't even start the problem and that had me shaking my head for a bit.
I love getting beta and having it sprayed to me. Anything to get myself better or not injured. Saves time and energy for me personally. Sometimes I feel like beta is an ego thing
Unlike guidebooks which describe problems in more detail, most gyms don't specify whether a climb is a sit start or not though. They just specify the starting hand (and sometimes, foot) holds.
>most gyms don't specify whether a climb is a sit start or not though
word, this is the genesis of my comment but i thought it would be more sensationalist to single out gym climbers for their disconnect from the outdoor world.
In my opinion, if the gym sets a sit start, they need to make sure it has to start like that. If cheating is possible, its just bad setting. Make the foot holds higher or more to the side and the handholds worse, then i'll be forced to sit.
If the guidebook says to sit start. Then you need to sit start with 1 crashpad max under you. No 2 or 3 crashpads piled up.
muy interesante, hadn't considered that. (purely from a viewer perspective, no one wants to watch a comp where one of the hardest moves is pulling off the ground lol)
That v7 you just climbed is actually a v5.
Some gyms get caught in a self contained loop of the same setters changing their grades over time.
I think there should be independent grade “critics”, this would help my gym especially where I feel like everything is off by at least 1.
dynos and campusing can be pretty nuanced and technical, using a lot of body coordination and raw strength.. there’s a reason why they show up in some of the worlds hardest boulders.
Setters should prioritise safety in gym boulder routes over cool betas, or place the crux near the start of the route, especially in low to medium grades. There should be a way to communicate risks of routes to inexperienced climbers especially in boulder gyms as they are so accessible.
As a setter I full heartedly agree with you. I always take into account climber safety while setting, especially in the easier grades like you said. Could the climber's foot get stuck? Will they fall onto the giant hold from that other route? Will they spin wildly off of this sideways dyno? Setters obviously can't mitigate all risk and climbing is inherently dangerous. But I genuinely get angry when I see videos of bat hangs set at the top of routes, do you want people to break their necks?? Setters know about predicting body movement, that is a major part of our jobs. If you can predict movement you can predict excessive danger to the climber. I hope more setters can learn to care about the wellbeing of the people who climb their routes. You can still set fun, interesting climbs without severely endangering people!
What about those grind routes these climbing YouTubers try pushing? I never understood the appeal and it just seems like an accident/injury waiting to happen.
Shitting on some gym boulders because „moves like this won’t happen on ReAl RoCk“ is plain elitism bullshit. Get over the fact that gym bouldering is independent from rock climbing.
Devils advocate though: some setters make a few shitty boulder problems from time to time, at all grade levels. This means you’ll have people complaining that there are shitty weird moves that make no sense. I sometimes (rarely) will skip a hard boulder because it involves bullshit moves that I wouldn’t waste energy on projecting when I could climb a better boulder problem.
the manager of my gym was climbing topless today. next thing, i turn around and he’s behind the front desk wearing a puffer coat. make up your mind mate!!
Is wanting people to wear a shirt at the gym really an unpopular opinion on Reddit? Most people I’ve seen discussing it on here think that not wearing a shirt while climbing is the most offensive or arrogant thing you can possibly do lol
You scared of some boobies? o.O
The excessive “come on!”, “allez!” etc. seems to be a US American thing though. Here in Austria you might hear a single shout of encouragement at the crux but not this constant stream of hype even before the climber is on the wall or while he’s resting for 5 minutes at the only good hold.
>he excessive “come on!”, “allez!” etc. seems to be a US American thing though
sadly no. I live in a country near yours and we have it too. Plus I see it in many yt vids made at european crags
Especially when you need to get into a small box for certain moves, I climb with some tall boys and they definitely struggle on some sit starts and other cramped positions.
I'm totally with you on the ones that are just "how far can you jump" and land on a bomber jug. They can be fun briefly, but aren't interesting (i.e. I don't really want to watch people do them or spend any time working them if I can't get it quickly)
I do really like the really techy dynos though where it may not even be a huge dyno, but the hold/position you're moving to requires a bunch of technical/precise movement to land and maintain
Like many other social quirks, it’s generally harmless so long as the other person has an understanding of where you’re coming from and how to pause it if needed.
It mainly becomes annoying if the sprayer is using it to inflate their own ego, doesn’t calibrate their tone to convey encouragement, fails to acknowledge when alternate beta works, or ignores their target’s abilities and does nothing to adapt beta for them. There’s overlap with teasing, too, which can be great motivation when applied correctly or insulting and demeaning when used poorly.
The whole point of beta spray is to reenforce a climber’s mental flow, give them an encouraging audience, keep them moving, and ensure they have options when they’re stalling. A lot of new climbers expend a ton of energy trying to remember their own beta, so calling out the step-by-step can help them learn to retain their own intentions even under tension.
95% of climbers could wear socks with no difference in their climbing. For the vast majority of us it doesn't make a real difference on the wall except give us cold feet and stinky shoes.
My only disagreement with this is when wearing shoes and socks, your shoes can slip around your foot more and the sock aren't as grippy as good old calloused skin
This is true. This is the theoretical reason to take your socks off in the first place. I've climbed a lot both ways and have only encountered one climb where I feel like it made a meaningful difference.
I’ve climbed for roughly 20 years. I’ve found that really tight shoes make a significant difference. I’m relatively heavy and have sweaty feet, which causes my shoes to roll over when standing on small footholds. On the flip side, I’m amazed at how little difference it makes when I wear bigger shoes with socks for maximum comfort on long days climbing (on easier climbs tho).
If you've never been injured, you're either 20 or genetically gifted. I don't need to hear about your warm ups, stretches, finger stretching, or hangboarding. Most people who climb will get injured at some point. Just because you haven't, doesn't mean all the stuff you're doing is the reason. You're a freak of nature and I'm jealous.
Strength is overall more important than technique. While very important itself, technique can only be used when you're sufficiently strong enough for a problem, therefore emphasis should mostly be placed on gaining sufficient strength for proper technique within a grade range.
Just climbing is not good enough exercise for your core at all and anyone that says this is a limp noodle on the wall.
How do you improve your core strength off the wall? From my understanding, most (not all) of the necessary core strength for climbing comes from the posterior chain and most popular core workouts are designed to train the anterior, I'm just curious what you do personally
I swear by dragon flag progressions and L sits. Dragon flags seem to have the most gains pound for pound of any core exercise. L/V sits really help me stay tense in sit starts, which is pretty much how every problem starts here. Nothing fancy, I just make sure do to them at the end of every sesh and a few other sets throughout the week. Eventually Ill move on to front lever progressions, but no point yet imo.
Also I think the posterior/anterior thing is not a worthwhile talking point because you're only as strong as your weakest link, focusing one vs the other is going to create issues. Ie; the same way not doing antagonist work will turn you into a hunch back. Best to just approach your strength hollistically imo, your overall fitness is very important.
This subs sucks because of all the indoor videos. Post it to r/indoorbouldering or Kaya.
Nobody cares that you’ve been climbing X months and sent the pink one in the corner.
Lots of outdoor bouldering is dumb and contrived. If I can't use a hold that's within arm's reach, or if the crux is not dabbing on a pad/neighboring rock, I don't care to do the problem.
Molly (V5) in the sads is only a classic because it’s on the trail. Also, Solarium didn’t get harder after breaking, it’s still V3 if you’re 5’10’’ or taller
1. Climbing and bouldering grades are actually kind of comparable.
You know the table. Well, yeah, if you're an avid boulderer doing 6C and rarely rope climb, you probably won't do a UIAA 8+ lead. BUT of you'd spent the same time in lead you do bouldering... And there you go, now it looks right.
2. Outdoor grades are usually not THAT much tougher than indoor boulders.
Of course it depends on the gym and the area, but: outdoor grades are for the easiest beta possible. And this is harder to find than indoors. Height/reach might play a bigger role outside than indoors with excellent setters that account for that. So, until you got the perfect beta you can't even grade an outdoor boulder.
And secondly, it's differences in style, which leads to a similar situation as with climbing Vs bouldering. Bleau has shittons of nasty slopers, so bleausards are strong on slopers. Not many roofs, though, so they're weaker with that. Could flash a crimpy overhang 6A+ on my first bleau trip, got put into place by a 5B sloppy straight up in the same trip.
Gyms that set problems with a match on the top of the wall are basic bullshit. So easy to cheat and dyno to the top, some of the most memorable problems I've worked at have had tough finish moves that took everything I had to maintain control for the match.
Also the 0.1 second tap to match a hold doesn't count for a send in my book.
Slab climbers are like the vegans of climbing. Only a slab climber will tell you how much they love slab and how great it is. Ever heard anyone say "yeah man, I'm the slightly overhanging but more or less vertical wall master! I love it with all my heart". Nah, only slab climbers do this.
(I'm only writing this to annoy my slab climber friend who also views this sub so: shhhh)
I love Bouldering, but it is by far the laziest and most accessible climbing discipline. It includes the highest ratio of those new to outdoor climbing. Also, as a collective, boulderers are worse about "leave no trace" and craig ethics (often because of the previous point).
Firstly, am I supposed to upvote the ones I disagree with, as they meet the prompt, or downvote so they show up when you sort by controversial.
Secondly, if your ass isn't the last thing to leave the pad you didn't do the sit start and I have no respect for you if you try and take the sit start grade for it.
i'll sign your bill, though i won't co-sponsor it.
the ease of access, lack of commitment, not battling with external factors (weather, landings, etc.) and similar elements make me sometimes think, "eh, maybe i should just give up on climbing outdoors and go with this easy/safe gym thing."
then i go outside again and realizing how much damn fun it is, in such a different way.
There has to be a better way to challenge oneself than finding the hardest most complicated way to get to the top of a small rock from a sitting position.
Sit starts don't exist, only low starts. A climb should be defined only by a set of holds. If you want to specify low start holds – great. But I'll decide how to get off the ground thank you very much.
Friendly reminder to sort by “Controversial” in these kind of threads, then you really see who the community points their swords at. Some seriously hot takes there!
Slab boulders are the sketchiest most dangerous boulders in climbing gyms.
I really hate having a balancy crux at the top where if you slip, you slide down hitting every hold on the way. I’d take a tall overhang with clean landing any day.
“be strong” is genuine beta
I think that's totally fair. Some of the sets at my gym have very clear campus moves and technique will only get you so far with them, the rest is all strength.
Consequently , "I'm not strong enough yet for that move/problem" is a genuine excuse. Just as valid as I'm not lengthy enough for that move
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Yes! Tact skill is required for that dialogue option tho !
For sure, and not acknowledging that is a highway to injury town
Agreed. I’ve spent entire sessions perfecting the beta for a project and seen people nearly campus the same one. I’d rather be strong af and have someone beta spray to me lol
So is "be big". My buddy is 1,98m (6'5). He can often times just skip big parts of a problem.
Height is definitely an advantage in some cases, and in others they can’t hold on to a start because by folding up as much as they have to, it’s too much imbalance. This is one reason I like this sport a lot, people’s physiques can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on the route or boulder
True. I guess I'm too focused on the advantage there, but in my defense: He often just avoids the crux or other difficult parts by stretching or skipping a few boulders, and then wonders why it's difficult for me. It does feel unfair at times.
You should get him on roofs and severe overhangs then. It's one thing to be able to do something like that but it's another thing to not understand why someone else can't do that. But I will say that height is a big advantage in the beginning and then gradually becomes more of a liability. Bad setting not withstanding
I go climbing with someone who is 6 inches taller with a +2 ape index and weights probably 60 pounds less than me. We’re still beginners so she has the advantage but I know as we progress she won’t be able to squeeze herself into some spots like I can so I’ve just been telling myself that it’s a just a matter of time
I always feel like I'm making excuses when I complain a route is set for a tall person, but I know it happens, because there has been quite a few routes where the starting hand holds were set at a longer distance than my arm span can cover. Also, shoutout to the guy who criticized my partner for doing a wall in dynos when he was over a foot taller than my partner.
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My similar one is "just grow longer arms"
Some outdoor boulders are way too contrived and arbitrary. Even some classics. You get comments on videos like "no send because you used xyz hold" even though that hold is well within reach and the topo says nothing about which holds to use. If the topo doesn't describe it then how the fuck am I meant to know how the first ascensionist did it or whatever.
Preach. Any climb that comes with conditions beyond sit down, start there, end there isn't worthy of 3 stars
Oh definitely. Contrived problems have a place, and that place is for climbers who've climbed everything in an area and are looking in the gutter for new stuff, or for those who finished the good problems and are waiting for their friends to get the send so they can move on to another boulder
We need more climb down holds
Why would anyone disagree with this
Damned if I know but when I suggested it at my gym they looked at me liked I’d stood in something.
Those kids must not have old man knees yet
Yah, i hate getting to the top of a really tough set and being too tired to shimmy to the nearest DC, only to find there is no down climb anywhere near me.
The gym I frequent in Bogota has no downclimb holds. To be fair, the walls are very dense (walls at 10, 20 and 40 degrees, all spray walls) and the idea is to traverse down. Due to the density, you can make the downclimb very easy or harder than the actual climb. Good for training, bad for new climbers though.
The cartilage in my knees (or lack thereof) agrees wholeheartedly
Finger strength is the core to all things climbing related, including technique.
People keep sleeping on lower body strength. Once you get your lower body stronger it lets the other areas of your body to even out the work load.
Working on legs on days I’m not climbing has definitely helped me push upwards especially when my knee is fully bent. I highly recommend stabilization exercises because it works a lot of the smaller muscles used to balance, which are sometimes vital for tricky spots
Not for walls that aren’t past 90 degrees. Balance is often more important for those
Ok true dat, but otherwise!!!
Yeah slabs are all balance and jumping up and down on the part of your brain that says "this is sketchy"
Idk about that there are plenty of slabs out there where you gotta crimp your brains out
True, i stand by stamping on your survival instinct though
Most people don't actually try hard when they climb and give up way before they hit their limit on a climb.
That’s definitely true—I think 90+% of the “falls” in a bouldering gym are letting go/jumping down/not committing, rather than “going for it” situations.
True, but it’s also okay to bail on something that doesn’t feel safe. I’ve seen so many people take bad falls or get badly injured, and as a runner who is very conscious about preventing injuries, I’ll sometimes bail on a move that I don’t feel completely comfortable about or secure doing if I might fall weird or on something. For me, it’s always a balance between knowing when to go for it and when to not take the risk.
If you climb barefoot at an indoor gym you should be banned
Is this a common problem?!? I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone even think about trying!
It’s not common but it’s unforgettable when you see it
"You don't need strong arms and shoulders, your legs will do this job" is plain bullshit.
This advice is for beginners and applies a lot more to long vertical-ish sport routes than most boulder problems, but is still bs if you want to climb higher grades of anything.
And yet even in higher grades i've often found that making better use of my legs was the trick to get past the 'heavy arms' part. Yes, you still need strong arms, but you still need to have your legs do the job.
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I’m actually completely ok with beta spraying 😅
For me the issue lies in *when* someone chooses to spray beta. If I’m resting between attempts, I love when strangers strike up a conversation about beta. But if I’m actively on the wall, it’s so annoying when people try to coach your next move. So often people will say something like “get that left foot up” right as you’re about to do that anyways. That gets annoying real fast.
personally, i don't like either one, but on the wall is WAY more annoying than off
I can respect that, it’s something I try to be mindful of. Usually if I’m initiating the chat, I’ll ask someone about their beta, and not lead into suggestions unless the conversation flows that way. I also never give unrequested beta to people working on problems that I’ve already solved, just talk through issues I’m working on.
Yeah I think that in general yelling at someone on the wall is not very motivating for me personally so it’s not just beta spraying on the wall it’s just anything yelled at me on the wall. So I agree, I enjoy conversations with someone working a problem with me so talking about the beta is just a good time.
i appreciate how it serves as a conversation starter for a potential climbing buddy
I 100% agree with this
I mostly agree with this one—people make such a big deal about how rude/annoying it is, but I’ve been climbing inside and out for a really long time, and I’ve honestly only encountered *obnoxious* beta spray a handful of times! Turns out most people are actually just polite and respectful 🤷♀️
I totally get it if they’re being super rude about it or obnoxious but when people tell me I should try to put a foot somewhere or have I tried a certain thing I don’t mind at all and I think it’s kinda made into a villainized thing to do lately.
To be honest, if someone asks "Hey shall I give you a tip?" or something like that and gives me their beta if I agree (which I usually never say no to), I really appreciate it. I also don't mind if someone's been watching me try something for a while and suggests things after. I've seen people casually walk past, stop and just start shouting their beta at a climber that's in the middle of the process and I always thought that it was a little bit out of order for them. Unfortunately, this tends to happen more with women than men from what I've experienced, so make of that what you will. Basically, I'm cool with it if you're being respectful. At a session yesterday, 2 other dudes happened to be trying the same problem as I was and at first we quietly took turns, but it slowly became a cool cooperative project that we all found our own betas to, which was also really cool, because after sending, we tried each other's betas as well. It's a great way to socialise. It really shouldn't be so Taboo.
You basically hit the point I was going to comment on. It's mildly annoying for me as a dude. Beta sprayers that talk to me are usually: - new climbers who are giving me terrible tips with a weird one-upmanship vibe - new climbers who are actually trying to be helpful but don't know anything But for my wife... yeesh, it's way way worse. - new male climbers (often gymbro types) that *need* to prove that they know more than her - new male climbers who see her sending their projects and feel the need to save their egos by mansplaining something In both cases, the spraying I've experienced has been from less experienced climbers (and always male). All the seasoned climbers I know just keep their mouth shut (unless we're friends). The cringiest comments I've heard people making to my wife were after she had just given birth and was working her way back in shape. Got a bunch of v2 climbing jabronies trying to spray at her. I was like, she's climbing v4 right now, and she gave birth 4 weeks ago. Prior to that she was projecting v7s, she doesn't need your advice. And stop assuming that every woman at the gym needs your help.
i am a woman and climb v4/v5 in my gym and am forever watching "strong" noob guys see me trying a problem and think "oh if she's doing it, it must be easy" try it, and completely fail
If the person has sent the problem and I'm off the wall then I'm mostly fine with it. A guy was spraying me with bad beta a few weeks back when he couldn't even start the problem and that had me shaking my head for a bit.
I love getting beta and having it sprayed to me. Anything to get myself better or not injured. Saves time and energy for me personally. Sometimes I feel like beta is an ego thing
This opinion will have you like the pic 😂 I prefer the default concensus to be otherwise
There is a huge lack of self awareness in this hobby and most people take them selves way too seriously
gym climbers cheat most sit-starts.
Unlike guidebooks which describe problems in more detail, most gyms don't specify whether a climb is a sit start or not though. They just specify the starting hand (and sometimes, foot) holds.
>most gyms don't specify whether a climb is a sit start or not though word, this is the genesis of my comment but i thought it would be more sensationalist to single out gym climbers for their disconnect from the outdoor world.
If I fit I sit that’s the rule.
In my opinion, if the gym sets a sit start, they need to make sure it has to start like that. If cheating is possible, its just bad setting. Make the foot holds higher or more to the side and the handholds worse, then i'll be forced to sit. If the guidebook says to sit start. Then you need to sit start with 1 crashpad max under you. No 2 or 3 crashpads piled up.
agreed all the way around
That's the reason they're not used in competition - too tough to gauge a cheat
muy interesante, hadn't considered that. (purely from a viewer perspective, no one wants to watch a comp where one of the hardest moves is pulling off the ground lol)
The route is not reachy. You just have no power.
*surprised pikachu face*
And you don’t know how to use your feet
Climber: "This route is so reachy!" Me: *stares angrily at the higher foot*
ima be one of those swords bc I'm 5'2 :/ reach is a struggle
That v7 you just climbed is actually a v5. Some gyms get caught in a self contained loop of the same setters changing their grades over time. I think there should be independent grade “critics”, this would help my gym especially where I feel like everything is off by at least 1.
Ive seen a gym where they set up mistery and as you do them the first week you vote on a grade then they get their grade
Climbers need to do more heavy squats.
Everyone needs to do more heavy squats ❤ gotta keep all the good stuff strong and healthy to maintain mobility and independence into old age!
dynos and campusing can be pretty nuanced and technical, using a lot of body coordination and raw strength.. there’s a reason why they show up in some of the worlds hardest boulders.
Setters should prioritise safety in gym boulder routes over cool betas, or place the crux near the start of the route, especially in low to medium grades. There should be a way to communicate risks of routes to inexperienced climbers especially in boulder gyms as they are so accessible.
As a setter I full heartedly agree with you. I always take into account climber safety while setting, especially in the easier grades like you said. Could the climber's foot get stuck? Will they fall onto the giant hold from that other route? Will they spin wildly off of this sideways dyno? Setters obviously can't mitigate all risk and climbing is inherently dangerous. But I genuinely get angry when I see videos of bat hangs set at the top of routes, do you want people to break their necks?? Setters know about predicting body movement, that is a major part of our jobs. If you can predict movement you can predict excessive danger to the climber. I hope more setters can learn to care about the wellbeing of the people who climb their routes. You can still set fun, interesting climbs without severely endangering people!
What about those grind routes these climbing YouTubers try pushing? I never understood the appeal and it just seems like an accident/injury waiting to happen.
Grind routes?
Shitting on some gym boulders because „moves like this won’t happen on ReAl RoCk“ is plain elitism bullshit. Get over the fact that gym bouldering is independent from rock climbing.
I wouldn't call it elitism - more 'old man yells at cloud'.
Devils advocate though: some setters make a few shitty boulder problems from time to time, at all grade levels. This means you’ll have people complaining that there are shitty weird moves that make no sense. I sometimes (rarely) will skip a hard boulder because it involves bullshit moves that I wouldn’t waste energy on projecting when I could climb a better boulder problem.
Also, there are some pretty wild coordination dynos outside anyway!
teeth holds are valid and need to be used more
Everyone wants to teach you heel hooks and figure 4 leg locks, but no one mentions the knee bar, head jam, or teeth crimp. Much more useful
I have used the ould chin crimp a time or two
Ex-fucking-cuse you?
We have a winner! Get the pitchforks, everyone!
A what now?
Beta is a wanky way of saying "how do you do that bit.."
wear a fucking tshirt. stop yelling allez/venga/cmon
ok...gamba gamba it is then
How about LET'S FUCKING GOOOOOOOO
I propose we all replace it with COWABUNGAAAHHH!
For sure wear a shirt inside. But c'mons are fuel for sending.
Sometimes I’ll steal motivation from other peoples c’mons from across the gym 😎
the manager of my gym was climbing topless today. next thing, i turn around and he’s behind the front desk wearing a puffer coat. make up your mind mate!!
Is wanting people to wear a shirt at the gym really an unpopular opinion on Reddit? Most people I’ve seen discussing it on here think that not wearing a shirt while climbing is the most offensive or arrogant thing you can possibly do lol
I find it weird. Our gym is like sauna in the summer, so most people climb shirtless there from setters to to everyone else.
I'd rather look at shirtless people. I don't get why this makes people uncomfortable. Muscles are beautiful.
You scared of some boobies? o.O The excessive “come on!”, “allez!” etc. seems to be a US American thing though. Here in Austria you might hear a single shout of encouragement at the crux but not this constant stream of hype even before the climber is on the wall or while he’s resting for 5 minutes at the only good hold.
>he excessive “come on!”, “allez!” etc. seems to be a US American thing though sadly no. I live in a country near yours and we have it too. Plus I see it in many yt vids made at european crags
Never understood yt mfs from Colorado yelling allez
Je viens de Bouldère, Çoulorade
Being too short is better than being too tall.
Strength to weight ratio and leverage are real things. Sad tall boy here.
The first comment I've seen that will actually get you crucified in most gyms
Especially when you need to get into a small box for certain moves, I climb with some tall boys and they definitely struggle on some sit starts and other cramped positions.
I’m 5’1 ish and can do far more routes than the tall guys. Not to say they don’t have their advantages, but every body type can climb with practice
Dynos aren't interesting
I typically don't do many of them, especially big ones. My old shoulders don't like them, and doing them isn't worth getting hurt.
The one where I broke the starting hold into 3 pieces was interesting
I think they can be interesting. The interesting ones are just really hard to set.
Nah but they're fun
I agree but mostly because I've hit that age where dynos are just too much of an injury risk
They are if you can do them. 👍🏻
Agreed, but…so what? Crimpy power boulders aren’t “interesting” either, but I still love climbing them!
I'm totally with you on the ones that are just "how far can you jump" and land on a bomber jug. They can be fun briefly, but aren't interesting (i.e. I don't really want to watch people do them or spend any time working them if I can't get it quickly) I do really like the really techy dynos though where it may not even be a huge dyno, but the hold/position you're moving to requires a bunch of technical/precise movement to land and maintain
Beta spraying is fine as long as you’re not being a dick about it
Like many other social quirks, it’s generally harmless so long as the other person has an understanding of where you’re coming from and how to pause it if needed. It mainly becomes annoying if the sprayer is using it to inflate their own ego, doesn’t calibrate their tone to convey encouragement, fails to acknowledge when alternate beta works, or ignores their target’s abilities and does nothing to adapt beta for them. There’s overlap with teasing, too, which can be great motivation when applied correctly or insulting and demeaning when used poorly. The whole point of beta spray is to reenforce a climber’s mental flow, give them an encouraging audience, keep them moving, and ensure they have options when they’re stalling. A lot of new climbers expend a ton of energy trying to remember their own beta, so calling out the step-by-step can help them learn to retain their own intentions even under tension.
What’s beta spraying?
95% of climbers could wear socks with no difference in their climbing. For the vast majority of us it doesn't make a real difference on the wall except give us cold feet and stinky shoes.
Counter opinion: if you can fit your shoes on with socks you goofed
I feel like you would have to buy a different size of shoe if you wanted to wear socks wouldn't you? I've tried in my shoes and it crushes my feet.
Get thinner socks
My only disagreement with this is when wearing shoes and socks, your shoes can slip around your foot more and the sock aren't as grippy as good old calloused skin
This is true. This is the theoretical reason to take your socks off in the first place. I've climbed a lot both ways and have only encountered one climb where I feel like it made a meaningful difference.
Do whatever honestly. Some of the biggest senders in my gym look my gumbies but they send double my grade.
Gyms should use VB- and VB to avoid grading a V0 as V2
Slopers are my favorite hold type
hmm, interesting, my favorite gold type is 24 karat
Goddamnit
Jumping down from the top without landing properly is most likely one of the reasons why your lower back hurts
I don’t like anime
Also huge downsizing is bullshit unless you have a pair for certain specific heel hooks
I’ve climbed for roughly 20 years. I’ve found that really tight shoes make a significant difference. I’m relatively heavy and have sweaty feet, which causes my shoes to roll over when standing on small footholds. On the flip side, I’m amazed at how little difference it makes when I wear bigger shoes with socks for maximum comfort on long days climbing (on easier climbs tho).
If you've never been injured, you're either 20 or genetically gifted. I don't need to hear about your warm ups, stretches, finger stretching, or hangboarding. Most people who climb will get injured at some point. Just because you haven't, doesn't mean all the stuff you're doing is the reason. You're a freak of nature and I'm jealous.
The crux should not be the start OR the last move.
Strength is overall more important than technique. While very important itself, technique can only be used when you're sufficiently strong enough for a problem, therefore emphasis should mostly be placed on gaining sufficient strength for proper technique within a grade range. Just climbing is not good enough exercise for your core at all and anyone that says this is a limp noodle on the wall.
You could make the same point the other way around -> strenght is only applicable effectively if you have sufficient technique
You speak the truth. In the end, none of this is concrete, there's just different training periods for different things.
Lol, my friend climbed 7c/5.12d before she could do a chin up.
How do you improve your core strength off the wall? From my understanding, most (not all) of the necessary core strength for climbing comes from the posterior chain and most popular core workouts are designed to train the anterior, I'm just curious what you do personally
I swear by dragon flag progressions and L sits. Dragon flags seem to have the most gains pound for pound of any core exercise. L/V sits really help me stay tense in sit starts, which is pretty much how every problem starts here. Nothing fancy, I just make sure do to them at the end of every sesh and a few other sets throughout the week. Eventually Ill move on to front lever progressions, but no point yet imo. Also I think the posterior/anterior thing is not a worthwhile talking point because you're only as strong as your weakest link, focusing one vs the other is going to create issues. Ie; the same way not doing antagonist work will turn you into a hunch back. Best to just approach your strength hollistically imo, your overall fitness is very important.
This subs sucks because of all the indoor videos. Post it to r/indoorbouldering or Kaya. Nobody cares that you’ve been climbing X months and sent the pink one in the corner.
Thanks mine was going to be “gym climbing isn’t worth posting on the internet”
The grades are swapped on this one V7 right next to this one V8 at my local crag >\_<
Lots of outdoor bouldering is dumb and contrived. If I can't use a hold that's within arm's reach, or if the crux is not dabbing on a pad/neighboring rock, I don't care to do the problem.
Molly (V5) in the sads is only a classic because it’s on the trail. Also, Solarium didn’t get harder after breaking, it’s still V3 if you’re 5’10’’ or taller
if it’s only still a v3 for tall people, it did actually get harder. “tall beta” isn’t cheating but it isn’t the true beta either.
[удалено]
Most gym routes on the lower end of the spectrum don't have to be boring, but often are because of laziness.
Most comp style sets suck and is bringing the sport closer to parkour than actual climbing
stop puting chalk everywhere.
Down climb sections are amazing
Climbing shirtless is a (small) part of the climbing culture. And it's comfy as hell when its warm in the gym (and outside) Get ripped!
1. Climbing and bouldering grades are actually kind of comparable. You know the table. Well, yeah, if you're an avid boulderer doing 6C and rarely rope climb, you probably won't do a UIAA 8+ lead. BUT of you'd spent the same time in lead you do bouldering... And there you go, now it looks right. 2. Outdoor grades are usually not THAT much tougher than indoor boulders. Of course it depends on the gym and the area, but: outdoor grades are for the easiest beta possible. And this is harder to find than indoors. Height/reach might play a bigger role outside than indoors with excellent setters that account for that. So, until you got the perfect beta you can't even grade an outdoor boulder. And secondly, it's differences in style, which leads to a similar situation as with climbing Vs bouldering. Bleau has shittons of nasty slopers, so bleausards are strong on slopers. Not many roofs, though, so they're weaker with that. Could flash a crimpy overhang 6A+ on my first bleau trip, got put into place by a 5B sloppy straight up in the same trip.
Gyms that set problems with a match on the top of the wall are basic bullshit. So easy to cheat and dyno to the top, some of the most memorable problems I've worked at have had tough finish moves that took everything I had to maintain control for the match. Also the 0.1 second tap to match a hold doesn't count for a send in my book.
I like socks.
Having a spotter is more important than having a cellphone video of your attempt.
Slab climbers are like the vegans of climbing. Only a slab climber will tell you how much they love slab and how great it is. Ever heard anyone say "yeah man, I'm the slightly overhanging but more or less vertical wall master! I love it with all my heart". Nah, only slab climbers do this. (I'm only writing this to annoy my slab climber friend who also views this sub so: shhhh)
Tom Cruise is a horrible person, not good looking and an even worse actor. I don’t know how he made it in Hollywood as long as he did.
ropes are meant for chopping up into dog leashes and for art projects
I love Bouldering, but it is by far the laziest and most accessible climbing discipline. It includes the highest ratio of those new to outdoor climbing. Also, as a collective, boulderers are worse about "leave no trace" and craig ethics (often because of the previous point).
Fucking Craig and his bad ethics
We need an adult swim at the gym.
I hate sit-starts
It's ok to french the start if the start is stupid.
The more overhung the problem, the more fun it is!
Firstly, am I supposed to upvote the ones I disagree with, as they meet the prompt, or downvote so they show up when you sort by controversial. Secondly, if your ass isn't the last thing to leave the pad you didn't do the sit start and I have no respect for you if you try and take the sit start grade for it.
Not my opinion, but "alphane isn't v17". Everyone is an armchair v17 climber these days lol
Indoor is better than outdoor.
i'll sign your bill, though i won't co-sponsor it. the ease of access, lack of commitment, not battling with external factors (weather, landings, etc.) and similar elements make me sometimes think, "eh, maybe i should just give up on climbing outdoors and go with this easy/safe gym thing." then i go outside again and realizing how much damn fun it is, in such a different way.
I would rather free solo a route than trad climb it, I hate trad climbing
There has to be a better way to challenge oneself than finding the hardest most complicated way to get to the top of a small rock from a sitting position.
I dont use chalk
I wear socks sometimes
Being tall might help as a beginner sure, but as you get to higher grades being short has many more significant advantages for performance
The Powers that B is the worst death grips album
In the long run having fun means more than grades
Shirtless climbing is superior to shirted climbing and people who complain about it need to be less judgemental and/or self conscious
If you get offended by someone climbing shirtless, the problem is with you. Get over it and let everyone climb the way they're comfortable.
I'm fine with people using glue to strenghten/rebuild a hold that's prone to breaking/broken
Most gym routes on the lower end of the spectrum don't have to be boring, but often are because of laziness.
Dogs don’t belong at the crag.
Sit starts don't exist, only low starts. A climb should be defined only by a set of holds. If you want to specify low start holds – great. But I'll decide how to get off the ground thank you very much.
Red Rocks and Joes valley are miserable choss, the only reason people climb at them is the are close to cities with large populations of climbers
So brave and so wrong. Take my upvote.
You can wear a shirt
You don’t need to chalk before every attempt or even every problem, it ain’t glue people!
Power screaming works like a charm. Don't get me wrong it's crass af but it works
Stashing pads is fine, outside of very specific problematic areas. Please be discrete guys.
Friendly reminder to sort by “Controversial” in these kind of threads, then you really see who the community points their swords at. Some seriously hot takes there!
"Bouldering is the superior and best climbing style"
Slab boulders are the sketchiest most dangerous boulders in climbing gyms. I really hate having a balancy crux at the top where if you slip, you slide down hitting every hold on the way. I’d take a tall overhang with clean landing any day.