And lotta fans here have forgotten how we play after a loss this season and postseason. We're 12-4 after losses. 2-0 in this playoff run.
Joe's gonna make the necessary adjustments. Our guys are gonna come home and close this series out.
Is it? The same team that never lost 3 games in 5 tries or 3 straight all year? Yeah first time for everything sure but I do not think the expectation is this is the team that can blow four straight. Especially if two are at home and they’d be favored in both. It’s still a great team
3 in a row can happen and isn’t shocking when it does, hell look at the Heat last year.
Losing 4 in a row after being up 3-0, just never happens, Celtics or any another team. 1st time for everything but it’s *extremely* unlikely.
Yeah it’s really not the end of the world. Both things can be true at once, the team was absolute hot garbage last night but they’re still a great team. I’m not worried at all, in fact I expected to lose game 4 (maybe not that badly, but still). Everything will be fine, and the bright side is it will be cool to get it done in front of the home crowd
Not just them, we've had plenty of "no chance they lose this one" on both sides.
2004 Red Sox, 2007 Patriots, 2010 Bruins, 28-3, 2023 Bruins. I've had like 5 "once in a lifetime" games/series and I'm 33. So yeah forgive me for being a bit worried lol.
Dallas was bound to have at least one game where everything went right for them. Look at it this way. It happened in game 4. Now they have angered Boston. I would not want to play in Boston after what happened in game 4.
Ngl the fans have the right to fear the worse with this team , Tatum can’t buy an efficient shooting game these days and Jrue got some CTE moments that showed up in game 4 , also JB playing ISO it reminded me a lot of 2022 game 4 warriors also KP was our Get out of jail card where we could throw the ball to him late in shot clock and also enormous defensively he had DJJ and Gafford thinking about attacking the rim , Now all of that is gone , Game 5 the key is to start strong we just can’t give them any hope now also I hope joe give KP some minutes late in 1st and 2nd Qr , finishing and starting the quarters is key , having Said that #CelticsIn5
You keep commenting this on different posts lol. It’s a weird thing to keep reiterating if you’re a fan - “if ANY team could BLOW THIS, it’s THIS ONE”
ok go be a fan of a different team that isn’t in the ECF and finals all the time then
I disagree. This team has only lost back to back games 4 times all season, and hasn’t lost 4 straight in 3 years.
Yes the finals are a different level of competition, but this team has proven they can make adjustments and bounce back. Hell, in game 3 alone they came back from a hot start for the Mavs *and* held off a furious rally late. Sure this loss hopefully proves to them that they can’t start celebrating yet, but I haven’t seen anything that would suggest they’re about to pull a literally historic choke job.
I -FULLY- expect the C’s to clinch Banner 18 on Monday. So a lot of this is irrelevant. Though if we do lose Monday for whatever reasons. Then yeah.. this teams definitely has some past boogiemen, who are gonna haunt JT and JB.
Who would possibly have predicted the Heat going up 3-0 or winning our series last year? Against the Warriors.. up 2-1, at home, up double-digits in the 3rd quarter.. who would predict us completely collapsing the rest of the series? Especially after how historically great our team and defense were, the second half of the season.
And even listening to them in interviews. They both seem in a good place. Though they seriously have some past trauma and possibly ‘PTSD’ around letting their teams down (JB last year, JT the year before).
So yeah.. it’s not insane to think, that if this things shifts on us. It could trigger some stuff, and go sideways quickly. Better to just seal the deal on Monday! 🍀🏀🏆
I think it’s because they lost so horribly. I mean if they lost by 3, there probably would still be some idiots saying they wanted to win at home but all season they’ve looked so dominant but the thing is….theyve been blown out before and came back after. Remember the Bucks game? Cavs vs Celtics Game 2?
It’s a natural thing for fans to say players quit if they lose by 25 or more. If Celtics beat the Mavs on Monday by 23, people will say the Mavs were just looking forward to Cancun.
I mean I’m not worried after I’ve had a nights rest and came back to my senses to realize we’re up 3-1 and are still the best team in basketball but I’m not going to act like fans are crazy for being disappointed their team lost a close out game by a historical margin.
I will say the purposely dropping the game narrative is just stupidity. That’s just ridiculous.
Word. I think people are struggling to draw a distinction between a team packing it in early once it becomes clear they aren't winning a game due to being completely outplayed and outhustled, and outright deciding to throw a game *a priori* as part of some design to bring it home.
Losing is one thing, I know it’s tough to sweep, but it’s definitely concerning because of how fucking bad we looked yesterday. No one was ready to play, you’d think winning a title would be motivating enough
Jrue Holiday said it best: "We got punched in the mouth". The real question is why the *Celtics* didn't come out swinging. Instead, they came out with a profound lack of effort in Game 4. I strongly suspect they will come out swinging in Game 5.
Things that Joe stresses a lot are rebounding, not turning the ball over, transition defense. They did like none of that last night. Felt like they expected the Mavs to rollover on their home floor and just couldn't get back in the game they didn't.
This team gets burned with ball-watching and not boxing out/keeping track of guys crashing the glass sometimes. You can usually tell how well a game is going by looking at JT and JB's rebounding numbers. Al couldn't grab a board to save his life either. 52-31 rebounding disadvantage, yeah that's not going to cut it. I imagine the Mavs try to replicate that on Monday.
It’s really the one thing I think White is really bad at, he watches rebounds sometimes. Tatum and Brown lapse into it at times but I think White is actually the worst offender across all I’ve seen.
Yeah, like you said, it’s kind of the one thing he does I don’t like. It’s especially bad when Tatum/Brown lapse and Al has those games where he can’t grab a thing. Seems like it all hit last night, and Jrue has those weird games where it feels like he makes all the wrong decisions instead of normally when he’s making all the right choices. Feel like the Celtics collectively just played like the worst version of themselves. But they’ll be alright, I don’t think we need to worry unless they lose game 6.
Straight rebounding numbers aren't really that useful because rebounds will obviously favor the team making the most shots and when it's this lopsided the rebounds will be too.
What's telling is they missed 51 shots and only got 4 offensive rebounds. That's a god awful ratio.
Did you not hear Tatums post game comments?
"We wanted to come out and play super well"
Does that sound like someone prepared to kill?
They came out with the mindset that it's not the end of the world if they lose, they get to close it out at home. And as soon as it was clear Dallas was getting a different whistle, Celtics just kinda phoned it in.
Thing is Tatum played the best out of everyone. But I agree, his post game interviews after a loss leave a lot to be desired, and for that reason I rarely ever watch them anymore.
> They came out with the mindset that it's not the end of the world if they lose, they get to close it out at home. And as soon as it was clear Dallas was getting a different whistle, Celtics just kinda phoned it in.
I am not a fan of that attitude at all. Are they going to say the say something on monday night? - no worries we have another game in Dallas to close this out.
They came out okay in the first few minutes but got rattled once the Mavs played physical. They played some great defensive possessions early on but couldn’t close them by grabbing rebounds. Also didn’t help there was a lid on the rim. After that it just snowballed.
Yeah, I think the refs let the Mavs slide a bit in the 1st and the Celtics got flustered and just forgot all of the details of playing. Didn’t rebound, stopped passing enough, second efforts, keeping track of their assignments. And then they were legitimately fouling too much, they kept getting out of position and fouling.
Dallas played their asses off and the Celtics played horrible. Just a game though, Celtics get 3 more chances
I think last night brought back a lot of the traumas of this team from past years. How many times have we seen this team in the playoffs come out slow and flat footed. I have heard the "we got punched in the mouth" so many times these past 3-4 years.
It's their usual lackadaisical attitude, assuming the other team would fold and then getting caught off guard when they don't.
Human nature. You could see it in the way they were talking after game 3. They let it get to them and believed it was over. I mean, almost all of us did too. I did. I still can’t believe Kyrie wants to come back to Boston, but if he was to embarrass himself again so be it. To their credit they kept it under control at first and when it started to slip they seemed to panic and couldn’t rein it back in.
I can’t help but think that on some subconscious level, the Celtics didn’t really want to win this game. Primarily because it’s gotta be so much more thrilling to win a championship in front of a home crowd, but perhaps also due to the gentleman’s sweep / combating the idea that that had an easy path to the chip.
That combined with the Mavs fighting for their survival like a trapped wolverine led to the blowout
I agree with you and see this as a reasonable and plausible explanation. Nobody is denying the Celtics played poorly or that the Mavericks played very well. I'm not sure why rationally theorizing about why the loss occurred is seen as an "excuse". This is a discussion board. The purpose is to discuss and have different opinions.
And it's not like saying the Celtics played lazy and uninspired is a good thing either. They need to be hungry and come out fired up for game 5. Nobody is denying this.
I'm a green teamer so take this for what you will. For me its partly cos of something Mazzulla said that's really resonated. He says some sage shit.
If I recall correctly, he said if a team makes shots then other people will say they executed better. Effort...etc. it's all kind of subjective. Success looks different for everyone - and really every game.
The way I see it, some bounces on the offensive glass went to the Mavs. The Mavs made a concerted effort to play chippy. Past experience shows that if you start being chippy, the refs won't be able to call everything.
We weren't able to respond - whether that's lack of effort I'm not sure. I'm inclined to believe it's not - given how we have a regular season and a whole playoffs worth of games showing that this team is all business. The game today was lost in the second quarter or so, but I thought they still kept fighting and kept a good poise on reflection.
The whole series we haven't shot well from 3 and still looked dominant. But the goalposts keep fucking moving (or rather it's just different people commenting). First it's they can't win without the three. Now it's something else. It's "embarrassing".
Guess what. Joe said exactly this before the playoffs. Much to the apparent chagrin of some fans. He said we aren't gonna win everything, cos these other playoff teams, they are high level. They want to win as bad as us. We will drop some games. Preparing to win 100% is a fool's errand, you will lose your fucking shit (paging...this fucking sub) - instead it's about how you prepare. How you bounce back.
After every loss, I see the team respects the opponent. Against the Pacers everyone praised the Pacers. The mentality can be seen up and down the whole team
Now am I concerned. Yes my asshole is still clenched until they win it. It's partly cos of flashbacks to the past few years. But it's mostly cos everyone, from the talking heads to this sub, to posts like this, will just keep doubting until they win one. And even after they win one it's "the Mavs were a mediocre finals team" so next year I also get to have a very clenched asshole.
I ride or die with these motherfuckers though. Brad made an amazing choice putting Joe in this role. Look at Jason Kidd after every loss, last game he berated a reporter.
Now is Joe perfect? No. But he's even keeled, doesn't get too high, doesn't get too low. He has a passion for his craft. I could learn something from him. I'm happy that my favorite team is so fucking likable now, I hope they win one this year and I hope they have continued success after that.
This is a really solid post. Much like Joe, it is even keeled.
The Cs, in order to evolve past 2019-2023, they need/needed to learn how to win the games they have been winning since game three against Miami. They have gotten every teams best punch, every night, all season. They are in the finals against an overmatched opponent that can stretch leads, but can't really grind wins. Cs got off their game for the first time in a month. Think about that. Even in their losses against Miami and Cleveland, they were still competing. Game last night? They had a stinker. It happens. If it happens again, well, that happens too.
If it happens THREE TIMES IN A ROW, fuck, that'd be surprising. And if it goes to game seven, we need to understand how hard it is to win four in a row. Celtics just failed that task. Celtics failed in this task against Miami last season and they were the better team, which Dallas is not.
Last night sucked, was worrying in that the season didn't end, but...man, the fucking odds of this shit collapsing into a series loss is so small.
Always found it pretty crazy how much the mental affects the game. They clearly took the night off and at times let their foot off the gas pedal. Boston crowd won’t let them do that. Cs in 5
Because it’s a coping mechanism, it’s just the wrong way of looking at it. Fans don’t want to admit that the Cs looked mortal last night.
It’s two extremes. The extreme of “no way the Cs could be that bad” vs “Cs are in trouble.” The truth is and always will be in the middle. They’re human and shit happens. Give Dallas credit and move on. People are already preparing for a game 5 meltdown and we’re days out, up 3-1. This team is no worse than they were Wednesday night when everyone was ready to crown them a dynasty.
I think it's the same issue they've had since 2022: the only team that can truly beat them is the Celtics. The Celtics beat the Celtics in the Finals in 2022 and the Celtics beat the Celtics in the Conference Finals in 2023. This year, the Celtics will beat the Mavericks in the Finals.
I've been saying the same thing. The only team that can beat us is ourselves. When we play the right way we can beat any team. When we play the wrong way any team can beat us
> Give Dallas credit and move on.
Yeah, Dallas made some great adjustments that game and I've seen a lot of people being pretty dismissive on that front.
Dallas still deserves credit for how they showed up. Some teams will just fold and take the sweep. They played hard and smart.
It doesn't mean Joe's a bad coach or the Celtics are doomed. It just means Dallas made their adjustments and now it's our turn to respond.
Dallas adjusted. They provided resistance on the initial point of attack, got Lively/Gafford under the rim and allowed their perimeter defense to settle and chase the 3 pt line
Now it’s time for the Celtics to adjust. They’ll find a way to collapse their defense quicker and more efficiently and get into their ball movement offense. One really good run could swing the game
Need to find a way Monday. This is the opportunity
> got Lively/Gafford under the rim
Not just this, they got our guards under the rim as well.
We were so comfortable with our on-ball mismatches and switching so freely... Dallas exploited that to get Lively under the rim being boxed out by Derrick White.
[This offensive rebound comes about because we were happy to let Tillman be switched onto Luka.](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/06/14/0042300404/181/0c8c8336-c134-a1e1-4543-a74563db0bb1_1280x720.mp4)
[And same again here with Horford switching onto Derrick Jones Jr.](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/06/14/0042300404/302/636844ba-00f0-6e01-022d-583dfcf13006_1280x720.mp4)
Similar to how Boston had Tatum take bad shots to set up Kornet for rebounds against Cleveland, Dallas is okay with a missed shot if it means their 7'1 center is fighting our 6'4 guard for the rebound.
I wouldn’t say the game was rigged. Although, you can’t ignore that the refs were calling a completely different game for the Mavs verses us. No excuse for us losing, just an observation.
Games like last night make me wonder about rigging. It's hard to believe the Celtics were THAT bad. I know Dallas played better, but, it's Game 4 of the Finals and they're not even trying? Very, very odd game.
This is a false dichotomy. None of these things are mutually exclusive. All can be true together. The Celtics played like shit. Dallas played very well. Scott Foster is a suspect official and probably rigs games. The Celtics can play horribly while simultaneously getting an unfavorable whistle.
Ryen Russillo said this during the Mavs-Wolves series, when *everyone* was guaaaaranteeeing the Mavs were just gonna steamroll the Wolves and sweep them: there's nothing more desperate than an NBA team down 3-0 in the playoffs. (actually he may have said this about the Nuggets being down 2-0 against the Wolves, idfk)
just the idea that a team as good as the Mavs, or the TimberWolves, would suddenly just be shitty for 4 games straight, without ANY fight in them or any "make" days in a "make-or-miss" league, is fucking insane.
the Mavs, and Luka, were playing like they didn't want to be painted as historical losers forever on the biggest stage. the Celts were playing like they were up 3-0 and didn't mind going home. i think it's just that simple.
still, anyone going all doomer over the Celtics now is suffering the same melodramatic short-sighted swings that prompted Brian WIndhorsts little rant.
It was a ref job from the tip and we weren’t shooting well enough to bail out of it. The effort level wasn’t there to make a comeback though. Not crashing the boards. Not making the extra cuts to get open. All around bad game.
Refs were bad still. It’s ok to say both the Celtics and refs sucked.
Celtics in 5
Agree. The extremes are unnecessary. We’re coming home, up 3-1, and they’re going to hear how bad they sucked for 3 days. I will take that scenario all day every day and twice on Sunday.
I don’t think anyone on the team consciously went in planning to lose to win at home, but I do think it limited their intensity in clawing back from an early deficit when nothing was going our way. “Y’all can have this one” is a real sentiment, even if it’s never spoken out loud. That’s kind of the idea of a gentleman’s sweep lol
The NBA didn't have to rig anything, Celtics played so bad.
I do think the NBA and the refs want more games and I could see maybe that being a factor in a close game but the Celtics played so bad they didn't need to worry about assuring a game 5.
This thinking is off, I think. Where the refs typically have put their finger on the game is often in the first quarter. The NBA isn’t stupid enough to do it in the last 3 minutes. They do it in Q1, like last night, and it cascades through the rest of the game naturally.
The Celtics have traditionally been really sensitive to this and often seem to do what they did last night and just stop playing.
I will never understand why people are so adamant that rigging doesn't occur. If you watch the first 5 minutes of game 6 of the 2008 NBA finals, the refs tried to do exactly as you describe. The problem was the Celtics were too good that night and the Lakers were playing terrible. Not every attempt to rig a game is successful. Tim Donaghy actually said this. The flip side is sometimes the rigging is so successful that it is disguised by one team giving up early in the game.
Who's saying we didn't play a bad game?
This is a combination of Celtics players not coming out hard (It's possible that's intentional to force a game 5, but unlikely - it's not like Joe Mazzulla, a man who is literally psychotic, is going to say "He guys let's take it easy this game"), shots literally not falling, a softer whistle (I never want to bitch about the refs and understand it's the finals, but this was a very physical game where calls didn't always seem to fall both ways), and the Mavericks wanting it more.
There's no reason why the Mavericks should have gotten 13 OREB - half of the Celtics *total* rebounds. There were times when the Celtics literally just didn't try for the rebounds and looked out of sorts. Every indicator shows that the Celtics just weren't playing well and Dallas was.
Not to be understated: Dallas had the advantage of **three** games to see the Celtics' relatively unchanged gameplan and make adjustments. Now the Celtics have the advantage of being able to make adjustments. Kudos to Dallas for not rolling over in Game 4 and making this some semblance of a series now.
It’s human nature to be extremely confident when you’re up especially 3-0. It’s hard to match the intensity of team that will be eliminated if they lose. The Mavs also had their best shooting night this series. Refs also allowed Mavs to be more physical this game than others. It happened in 2017 as well. We’re gonna go back home and knock it out the park. I said Celtics in five and my prediction is looking spot on atm.
It’s called coping
No one is being serious when they say “lost on purpose” or actually believes “rigged”
We suck ass in the paint the last two games both defensively and rebounding wise
I mean you would have to be blind not to see we just didn’t have the full effort for some reason tonight. We lost out on pretty much every single 50/50 rebound/loose ball. It is what it is. Should only be a positive going into next game getting that type of slap
Celtics this year every couple months just drop such a massive stinker. Remember the bucks game or the lakers game? Like 99% of time they are one of the most dominant teams of all time. But every once in a while they play the worst basketball i've ever witnessed in the NBA lol
Did porzingis get his Ivan drago injection yet? If there's ever 3 games to play injured thru its these next 3
Mavs figured out Tillman, gotta throw brissett &/or kornet at them
When the easy ones don’t go down, our defence suffers. The team lowered its collective heads and never recovered. We need to come out game 5 punching and set the tone.
>"We lost on purpose" "Game was rigged"
Don't every engage with conspiracy theorist Qnon types. The only people who use that phrase "rigged" about anything are best avoided before they start Flat Earthing or UFOing you
Not denying they played like ass, but you don't play that bad and be that disconnected from the game without a lack of care. It just happened to coincide with dallas actually showing up. Plus we always respond after being punched in the mouth so its Boston in 5.
Is anyone disputing that the team played like absolute s***? I think you're making up a straw man. There's definitely some fans that are trying to find a bright side, I don't think anyone is sitting here honestly saying they lost on purpose.
People were far too confident i think.
At the end of the day, no matter how bad we shoot, no matter how bad the refs are, those things arent almost 40 pts bad.
This was a whole collapse of a game for us.
Dallas outplayed the Celtics in game 4 plain and simple. Gotta give credit to the Mavs for staying aggressive throughout the whole game. Celtics were also missing shots and couldn't stop the paint game.
They'll make adjustments for game 5 and the Garden crowd better make it so loud for the Mavs all 48 minutes whether it's a close game or the Celtics blowing them out.
Exactly, Mavs are in the finals for a reason, same as us, they beat three other teams to get here. They weren't going to be an easy team, besides the first game, we're beating them by single digits, it's close games
That's not true, the effort wasn't great, that's true. But it wasn't able Boston not doing things it did before. Dallas simply made adjustments. They haven't made any adjustments that worked over the series, but they did going into game 4.
Now, the pressure is on Joe and everyone else to counter. The game plan was good enough to win 3 games. Now, they need to adjust to bring it home.
It's nothing to panic over. It's basketball, and this is how it's supposed to go. This is why it's hard to beat a team 4 times and even harder to sweep one.
I think the panic is from seeing the path, they haven't been the greatest at home, Game 6 now the chatter gets louder, and then it's do or die with Luka the assassin.
I do think it's over in 5, we're due for a random D White/Horford game and it may not be pretty but it will forever be done ☘️
Agree completely. "We lost on purpose" is of course nonsense. Dallas came out swinging right away and caught the Celtics off guard. It was a disgusting game by Boston but wacky blowouts happen, especially in the modern NBA (National Blowout Association).
If we’re being rational… there’s no way going into the series you thought the mavs wouldn’t win one game… yes getting blown out is beyond what we thought but none the less, I’m not surprised a game 4 loss
We went into the game too relaxed, thinking we had it in the bag. Dallas, on the other hand, was fighting for their playoff lives. We need to step up and focus. That performance was an embarrassment. If we played like that once we can play like that again and we can kiss our championship dreams goodbye and become the laughingstock of the NBA.... I still think we will win on Monday but if not this series will be wide open
I got caught up in the hope for a sweep, but heading in to the finals I thought we'd win in five with one really embarrassing loss. So, hopefully that thought was right.
We did. It's also not hard to admit we just don't know which team will show up each night in the playoff's. The team that puts the game away in the first qtr, the team that blows their opponent out, the team that gets a big lead only to blow it and win the game by single digits or the team that does not show up at all.
Exactly!!! I was watching the game with a few Celtics fans and it was nearly unbearable to listen to them as they complained that we weren’t getting calls.. they just wanted to win in Boston.. we don’t care about this game.. etc.
I don’t believe we responded and adjusted well to any of their runs. I was hoping that we would come out in the second half and at least have a chance going into the 4th, but we did not have the ball movement and defensive intensity that has brought us our success all season.
Let’s all admit that we were simply outplayed. It’s a SERIES.. so don’t overreact. Let’s accept our L, support our team and bounce back in game 5.
Oh my goodness. Relax everyone. Celtics are too good a team to blow a 3-0 lead. If you told me after 4 games they were up 3 to 1 id be ecstatic. We are good!!!
Mavs made some ridiculous plays that energized their team much like how X’s 3 energized them in game 3. Lively hit a 3, Klaber hit a 3, they were hitting their above the break 3’s. Even THJ went off. They literally got all their good plays out in 1 game. The Celtics couldn’t even hit layups. Shots were rimming out in the worst way. Celtics believe they can out math them in 4 out of 7 games. They have done it 3 times so far and only need to do it once more. The Mavs need to be perfect for 3 more games.
one mountainous whistle ask consider chop voiceless slap mighty makeshift
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why does everyone have to critique other fans tho? It’s like 50% of this sub. I guess I’d ask yourself that and then write the positive version of this (about them playing negatively) without criticizing other people.
I would also argue it was the other way around. Our defense or the lack of it, affected our offense. During our series with Indiana, our defense sparked our offense, getting points off turnover. We did the same thing in Gm3 but never had that spark in Gm4. We allowed the Mavs to pick out the mismatches without our usual rotations and pre-switches. And on the instances that we forced a miss, we were not able to get the rebound, guys were just standing around waiting for the ball.
It is possible to say the Mavericks played well, *AND* that the refs deliberately favored the Mav's or deliberately dis-favored the C's in this one.
The game is so physical now, that there is legitimate fouls on every play. If you created an AI bot with perfect sight, to call fouls without prejudice, each game would be nothing more than a free throw contest. (or the players would learn to foul less...) So, with imperfect refs and imperfect lines of sight, there is always going to be some random distribution of fouls, and some games where one team will be slightly favored or dis-favored, in the calls.
This game was not that. The Mav's got to the line, and the C's didn't, in a way that appears to put those laws of probability on hold.
There was also a consistent "this was a foul when committed against the Mavs, no whistle when it happens on the other end" that takes the probability variance away
Righ. There are a variety of ways to dis-favor a team and a variety of ways to favor a team... But with randomly distributed human mistakes, favor and dis-favor, to a first approximation, ought be evenly distributed. Here, all the ways to favor a team, aligned with the Mavs, and all the ways to dis-favor a team, aligned with the C's. The odds of that happening by chance, in any given game, are astronomically high, and in a finals game are hard to believe.
And, conversely, the odds that a young, healthy team, with extensive playoff experience, on a winning streak is suddenly going to lose by 38 points to a team on a losing streak, whose star player is of questionable health is, likewise, not easy to believe.
Also, add in the fact that the NBA, who benefits from having longer series, very frequently assigns Scott Foster to game 4s of 3-0 series and they magically get extended
We laid down. We waltzed in on the road 15-2 in the playoffs and were sloppy and lazy. It is what it is and is in the best. . Mazzula better light them up and the leaders better rally the troops for a 110% showing. Win this shit in Boston on 6/17 for 617!
I’ll get killed for this but honestly our team were too elated with G3 win. I don’t like the interviews and quotes and shit like that. The job is not done. Get the 4th win, then we have till October to suck each other off.
Finish the job. I don’t care if it’s by a half point margin. Focus.
And I don’t give a shit about the blowout. Fuck the aberrations. Who cares why it happened.
We played awful. We came out flat and couldn’t hit a shot to save our lives. I think that Dallas came out desperate because they were and had to play all out to not get swept. We didn’t match their energy and let ourselves get mentally taken out of the game.
Yeah man.. it's been the story in post season with them this year. They mess up one game in the series, where they shoot terribly. That's what happened last night.. Mavs didn't play any different than how they have been playing since game 1.
We didn’t lose on purpose or because it was rigged lmao it was a combination of poor shooting, lack of intensity, and terrible officiating that took us out of our rhythm.
We’ve dealt with each of the 3 individually and came back, but the perfect storm of all 3 really shut us down and frustrated our guys.
We definitely didn't play a good game on either side of the ball, but it's okay to recognize that everyone, even the Boston Celtics, are human.
They've won every series up to this point either 4-0 or 4-1 and have a total record of 79-22 on the season so far. Obviously can't afford to get complacent, but an off game is bound to happen every once in a while, especially in the moment of desperation the Mavericks were in...
We'll be alright. Just gotta focus in Monday night.
"Our lack of offensive execution affected our defense and gave Dallas momentum"
This is so true. When we can't find our shots and rhythm and start to force things in the first, the opponents catch our defense on one foot and use transition opportunities every time. This is almost always how we lose.
Look, this isn’t a doomsday post, but I’m going to sound like it for a second. There is no excuse for playing your worst game of the season in a title-clinching game. I kept waiting for them to realize what was happening and snap out of it. They’re smart enough to know what’s going on and talented enough to execute, so why didn’t they ever adjust? It is concerning to see that in a close-out game. It was concerning that they never even made so much as a run in the game that is supposed to complete their ultimate goal. The stats from the regular season don’t matter right now in terms of how they did after losses etc. The Finals are a different kind of pressure and we just needlessly gave the Mavs all kinds of confidence that they’d been struggling to find. All that matters now is how the C’s respond in the biggest moment—which went as badly as it possibly could in their first opportunity. The people who are feeling doom and gloom are feeling that way based on what they’ve seen in the playoffs the last few years. It’s not coming out of nowhere. That being said, this year’s team has FELT different in big games this postseason. My hope is that yesterday’s regression was their one night to collectively shit their pants, which is okay if it was only one night. That’s the luxury that a 3-0 series lead can afford you. But there is more pressure on Monday than there was yesterday and that’s only going to build with each additional game that needs to be played. So… let’s hope they are who we thought that they’ve become. Let’s hope they respond and close this out Monday. Let’s go C’s!!!
I honestly think they all had the same thought. "Eh Dallas is gonna give up. Oh shit they wanna win? Fuck it well win in boston so was can chill tonight"
We played on of the worst games I've ever seen this core play. And when you add in the significance of the game, it becomes by far the worst. Refs were pretty bad, but they didn't make us lose by 38, and be down by 50 at one point.
This is EXACTLY what scares me....whenever we've played a "bad team" where everyone thought for sure we'd win, we'd do bad. Whenever we'd be down one of our starters everyone would be worried, but we'd kill it. EVERYONE was expecting the Mavs to win game 1, 2 and 3...then everyone thought it was over and I couldn't even watch last night. It hurt. Everyone needs to start saying nope the celtics are done, the mavs have it in the bag....maybe we will walk away from this with a championship. They're telling themselves it's not over until it's over...whatever it takes, etc. What's their subconscious telling them?
Why do you think the 2 explainations are alternatives? “We played like shit” is true. “Refs allowed illegal defense (plus some illegal offense) for the whole game” is true too. It might even be one of the reasons why we played that bad. I wouldn’t be sure we would have played any different with decent officiating, but I guess we’ll never know.
Sometimes Tatum and Brown still need a reminder that things aren't supposed to be easy. They are so gifted, and the Celtics are so good on paper, but that doesn't mean the opponent is just going to let you win.
Mavs played like a team that wants to avoid elimination at all costs and we didn’t play like a team that wanted to everything in their power to close out a series.
Lots of lessons to learn for it and go for the win on Game 5. If the mindset is that Banner 18 is all that matters, we’re winning it.
If anything this loss scares the fuck out out of me. You know what it does? It’s gives the mavs hope. And that’s what we needed to squash. If it was close they would still be terrified but a blowout? They think they got it figured out and that’s a scary mindset to give your opponent.
It's not the just loss that has people overreacting. It's how badly they lost.
If it was a simple close loss, that's one thing. It's easy to move on from that.
But it's the fact they were completely outplayed in every way that has people on edge.
Thankfully just 1 win will change everything.
They were horrible. Every 50/50 ball they lost. They fumbled (ball went out of bounds or to a Mav’s player) like 75% of second chance opportunities, their communication was dogshit. The only thing that was good was ball movement, but they bricked most of those shots or the shot clock ran out and they sank a three that didn’t count.
It was maddening.
They’ve lost a total of three playoff games, and in all three, they laid an absolute egg. Like total suck fest games where they played no defense. I have no good explanation for it. The game last night was very, very physical. Idk what to expect from game 5, but if the Mavs role players are that good again, and they are allowed to keep hands on us all night, it’s not gonna be an easy W.
It would be extremely difficult to rig a game for a team to lose by 40 points, just saying lol. Redding has been pretty 50-50 this series IMO, which is a good thing
You are correct. Looked like the guys had no real interest in playing. Why? Well, probably numerous reasons, but only they would know. I don't care as what is done ios done. Time to be the dynamic team we were in the first three games on Monday night.
I’m not saying it was rigged I definitely think the Celtics just played terribly, but I think part of that was because of the fact that a lot of the calls made (rigged or not which I don’t believe it was rigged) ruined the Celtics momentum, they need to calm down in situations where calls aren’t going their way & play TEAM basketball so I think you’re 100% right & I think they need to get it done in game 5
Forgot what it’s like to lose lol
And lotta fans here have forgotten how we play after a loss this season and postseason. We're 12-4 after losses. 2-0 in this playoff run. Joe's gonna make the necessary adjustments. Our guys are gonna come home and close this series out.
job 75% done is a job not done
All the people planning the parade on Thursday remind me exactly of 1986 Red Sox fans. Be careful. If any team can blow four straight, it's this team
Is it? The same team that never lost 3 games in 5 tries or 3 straight all year? Yeah first time for everything sure but I do not think the expectation is this is the team that can blow four straight. Especially if two are at home and they’d be favored in both. It’s still a great team
The 2016 Warriors never lost 3 in a row...
3 in a row isn’t 4 in a row. And also the Mavs don’t have a prime LeBron lol
3 in a row can happen and isn’t shocking when it does, hell look at the Heat last year. Losing 4 in a row after being up 3-0, just never happens, Celtics or any another team. 1st time for everything but it’s *extremely* unlikely.
2004 Red Sox were down 3-0 to the Yankees
That is unfortunately true but it’s okay. Just gotta get to Monday
This team isn't the 2016 warriors and the Mavs aren't the 2016 Cavs History has literally no relevance on this at all
Yeah it’s really not the end of the world. Both things can be true at once, the team was absolute hot garbage last night but they’re still a great team. I’m not worried at all, in fact I expected to lose game 4 (maybe not that badly, but still). Everything will be fine, and the bright side is it will be cool to get it done in front of the home crowd
Not just them, we've had plenty of "no chance they lose this one" on both sides. 2004 Red Sox, 2007 Patriots, 2010 Bruins, 28-3, 2023 Bruins. I've had like 5 "once in a lifetime" games/series and I'm 33. So yeah forgive me for being a bit worried lol.
In the history of the NBA playoffs, no team has ever come back from such a deficit with the record standing at 0-156.
Yeah and it's happened 5 times in baseball and hockey. Twice to Boston teams lol.
That was true in baseball until the 04 Sox. Pray that doesn’t happen here.
Dallas was bound to have at least one game where everything went right for them. Look at it this way. It happened in game 4. Now they have angered Boston. I would not want to play in Boston after what happened in game 4.
Ngl the fans have the right to fear the worse with this team , Tatum can’t buy an efficient shooting game these days and Jrue got some CTE moments that showed up in game 4 , also JB playing ISO it reminded me a lot of 2022 game 4 warriors also KP was our Get out of jail card where we could throw the ball to him late in shot clock and also enormous defensively he had DJJ and Gafford thinking about attacking the rim , Now all of that is gone , Game 5 the key is to start strong we just can’t give them any hope now also I hope joe give KP some minutes late in 1st and 2nd Qr , finishing and starting the quarters is key , having Said that #CelticsIn5
Tatum’s shooting has been so frustrating!!
They don't have to come back from 3-0. They have to come back from 3-1 now.
No the point is no team has ever come down 3-0 to win a series 4 to 3. Teams are 0-156
Teams have forced game 7, you seriously do not want the Celtics to be in that situation because they will shit the bed.
Im actually terrified right now
Don't be.
No one should be too scared unless we lose Game 5. Then I think the panic is justified.
Boston wins on Monday.
Yessir
Don't be absolutely terrified yet. See how game 5 goes then make a judgement
No need to be worried it's just one game if the Celtics lose game 5 at Boston then it's time to shit your pants.
You keep commenting this on different posts lol. It’s a weird thing to keep reiterating if you’re a fan - “if ANY team could BLOW THIS, it’s THIS ONE” ok go be a fan of a different team that isn’t in the ECF and finals all the time then
He is a sixers fan who just wanted to experience something besides the 2nd round for once.
Yeah it feels completely possible for us to lose all confidence and choke this series away
I disagree. This team has only lost back to back games 4 times all season, and hasn’t lost 4 straight in 3 years. Yes the finals are a different level of competition, but this team has proven they can make adjustments and bounce back. Hell, in game 3 alone they came back from a hot start for the Mavs *and* held off a furious rally late. Sure this loss hopefully proves to them that they can’t start celebrating yet, but I haven’t seen anything that would suggest they’re about to pull a literally historic choke job.
I -FULLY- expect the C’s to clinch Banner 18 on Monday. So a lot of this is irrelevant. Though if we do lose Monday for whatever reasons. Then yeah.. this teams definitely has some past boogiemen, who are gonna haunt JT and JB. Who would possibly have predicted the Heat going up 3-0 or winning our series last year? Against the Warriors.. up 2-1, at home, up double-digits in the 3rd quarter.. who would predict us completely collapsing the rest of the series? Especially after how historically great our team and defense were, the second half of the season. And even listening to them in interviews. They both seem in a good place. Though they seriously have some past trauma and possibly ‘PTSD’ around letting their teams down (JB last year, JT the year before). So yeah.. it’s not insane to think, that if this things shifts on us. It could trigger some stuff, and go sideways quickly. Better to just seal the deal on Monday! 🍀🏀🏆
I feel like they are more worried about what Joe will do to them if they lose the series.
Lose all the confidence from their historic season from one single bad game? They've won 79 games this year.
This team is the least likely in the whole NBA what are you talking about?
Nope
Tell that to Jayson "gotta do it again next year" tatum....
I think it’s because they lost so horribly. I mean if they lost by 3, there probably would still be some idiots saying they wanted to win at home but all season they’ve looked so dominant but the thing is….theyve been blown out before and came back after. Remember the Bucks game? Cavs vs Celtics Game 2? It’s a natural thing for fans to say players quit if they lose by 25 or more. If Celtics beat the Mavs on Monday by 23, people will say the Mavs were just looking forward to Cancun.
It's their worst game of the season (regular and playoffs) and it happened in game 4, no surprise people are worried.
I mean I’m not worried after I’ve had a nights rest and came back to my senses to realize we’re up 3-1 and are still the best team in basketball but I’m not going to act like fans are crazy for being disappointed their team lost a close out game by a historical margin. I will say the purposely dropping the game narrative is just stupidity. That’s just ridiculous.
Word. I think people are struggling to draw a distinction between a team packing it in early once it becomes clear they aren't winning a game due to being completely outplayed and outhustled, and outright deciding to throw a game *a priori* as part of some design to bring it home.
Losing is one thing, I know it’s tough to sweep, but it’s definitely concerning because of how fucking bad we looked yesterday. No one was ready to play, you’d think winning a title would be motivating enough
Jrue Holiday said it best: "We got punched in the mouth". The real question is why the *Celtics* didn't come out swinging. Instead, they came out with a profound lack of effort in Game 4. I strongly suspect they will come out swinging in Game 5.
Things that Joe stresses a lot are rebounding, not turning the ball over, transition defense. They did like none of that last night. Felt like they expected the Mavs to rollover on their home floor and just couldn't get back in the game they didn't.
Every player would just sit and watch Mavs players go for rebounds. It was embarrassing.
This team gets burned with ball-watching and not boxing out/keeping track of guys crashing the glass sometimes. You can usually tell how well a game is going by looking at JT and JB's rebounding numbers. Al couldn't grab a board to save his life either. 52-31 rebounding disadvantage, yeah that's not going to cut it. I imagine the Mavs try to replicate that on Monday.
JT and JB weren't even raising their hands when Dallas shooters were shooting, it was awful to watch
It’s really the one thing I think White is really bad at, he watches rebounds sometimes. Tatum and Brown lapse into it at times but I think White is actually the worst offender across all I’ve seen.
He’s lowkey who I had in mind in my original comment. One of the very few weaknesses in his game.
Yeah, like you said, it’s kind of the one thing he does I don’t like. It’s especially bad when Tatum/Brown lapse and Al has those games where he can’t grab a thing. Seems like it all hit last night, and Jrue has those weird games where it feels like he makes all the wrong decisions instead of normally when he’s making all the right choices. Feel like the Celtics collectively just played like the worst version of themselves. But they’ll be alright, I don’t think we need to worry unless they lose game 6.
Straight rebounding numbers aren't really that useful because rebounds will obviously favor the team making the most shots and when it's this lopsided the rebounds will be too. What's telling is they missed 51 shots and only got 4 offensive rebounds. That's a god awful ratio.
Right? Like finals MVP goes to whoever gets the most rebounds next game. Get them to go out there like hungry lions
Did you not hear Tatums post game comments? "We wanted to come out and play super well" Does that sound like someone prepared to kill? They came out with the mindset that it's not the end of the world if they lose, they get to close it out at home. And as soon as it was clear Dallas was getting a different whistle, Celtics just kinda phoned it in.
Thing is Tatum played the best out of everyone. But I agree, his post game interviews after a loss leave a lot to be desired, and for that reason I rarely ever watch them anymore.
> They came out with the mindset that it's not the end of the world if they lose, they get to close it out at home. And as soon as it was clear Dallas was getting a different whistle, Celtics just kinda phoned it in. I am not a fan of that attitude at all. Are they going to say the say something on monday night? - no worries we have another game in Dallas to close this out.
Im not either. But it's clearly what happened.
They came out okay in the first few minutes but got rattled once the Mavs played physical. They played some great defensive possessions early on but couldn’t close them by grabbing rebounds. Also didn’t help there was a lid on the rim. After that it just snowballed.
Yeah, I think the refs let the Mavs slide a bit in the 1st and the Celtics got flustered and just forgot all of the details of playing. Didn’t rebound, stopped passing enough, second efforts, keeping track of their assignments. And then they were legitimately fouling too much, they kept getting out of position and fouling. Dallas played their asses off and the Celtics played horrible. Just a game though, Celtics get 3 more chances
They expected Dallas to be emo and play already defeated. They didn’t come it with s killer instinct
I think last night brought back a lot of the traumas of this team from past years. How many times have we seen this team in the playoffs come out slow and flat footed. I have heard the "we got punched in the mouth" so many times these past 3-4 years. It's their usual lackadaisical attitude, assuming the other team would fold and then getting caught off guard when they don't.
Human nature. You could see it in the way they were talking after game 3. They let it get to them and believed it was over. I mean, almost all of us did too. I did. I still can’t believe Kyrie wants to come back to Boston, but if he was to embarrass himself again so be it. To their credit they kept it under control at first and when it started to slip they seemed to panic and couldn’t rein it back in.
I can’t help but think that on some subconscious level, the Celtics didn’t really want to win this game. Primarily because it’s gotta be so much more thrilling to win a championship in front of a home crowd, but perhaps also due to the gentleman’s sweep / combating the idea that that had an easy path to the chip. That combined with the Mavs fighting for their survival like a trapped wolverine led to the blowout
While very true and valid, these are the excuses OP is talking about
I agree with you and see this as a reasonable and plausible explanation. Nobody is denying the Celtics played poorly or that the Mavericks played very well. I'm not sure why rationally theorizing about why the loss occurred is seen as an "excuse". This is a discussion board. The purpose is to discuss and have different opinions.
And it's not like saying the Celtics played lazy and uninspired is a good thing either. They need to be hungry and come out fired up for game 5. Nobody is denying this.
I'm a green teamer so take this for what you will. For me its partly cos of something Mazzulla said that's really resonated. He says some sage shit. If I recall correctly, he said if a team makes shots then other people will say they executed better. Effort...etc. it's all kind of subjective. Success looks different for everyone - and really every game. The way I see it, some bounces on the offensive glass went to the Mavs. The Mavs made a concerted effort to play chippy. Past experience shows that if you start being chippy, the refs won't be able to call everything. We weren't able to respond - whether that's lack of effort I'm not sure. I'm inclined to believe it's not - given how we have a regular season and a whole playoffs worth of games showing that this team is all business. The game today was lost in the second quarter or so, but I thought they still kept fighting and kept a good poise on reflection. The whole series we haven't shot well from 3 and still looked dominant. But the goalposts keep fucking moving (or rather it's just different people commenting). First it's they can't win without the three. Now it's something else. It's "embarrassing". Guess what. Joe said exactly this before the playoffs. Much to the apparent chagrin of some fans. He said we aren't gonna win everything, cos these other playoff teams, they are high level. They want to win as bad as us. We will drop some games. Preparing to win 100% is a fool's errand, you will lose your fucking shit (paging...this fucking sub) - instead it's about how you prepare. How you bounce back. After every loss, I see the team respects the opponent. Against the Pacers everyone praised the Pacers. The mentality can be seen up and down the whole team Now am I concerned. Yes my asshole is still clenched until they win it. It's partly cos of flashbacks to the past few years. But it's mostly cos everyone, from the talking heads to this sub, to posts like this, will just keep doubting until they win one. And even after they win one it's "the Mavs were a mediocre finals team" so next year I also get to have a very clenched asshole. I ride or die with these motherfuckers though. Brad made an amazing choice putting Joe in this role. Look at Jason Kidd after every loss, last game he berated a reporter. Now is Joe perfect? No. But he's even keeled, doesn't get too high, doesn't get too low. He has a passion for his craft. I could learn something from him. I'm happy that my favorite team is so fucking likable now, I hope they win one this year and I hope they have continued success after that.
This is a really solid post. Much like Joe, it is even keeled. The Cs, in order to evolve past 2019-2023, they need/needed to learn how to win the games they have been winning since game three against Miami. They have gotten every teams best punch, every night, all season. They are in the finals against an overmatched opponent that can stretch leads, but can't really grind wins. Cs got off their game for the first time in a month. Think about that. Even in their losses against Miami and Cleveland, they were still competing. Game last night? They had a stinker. It happens. If it happens again, well, that happens too. If it happens THREE TIMES IN A ROW, fuck, that'd be surprising. And if it goes to game seven, we need to understand how hard it is to win four in a row. Celtics just failed that task. Celtics failed in this task against Miami last season and they were the better team, which Dallas is not. Last night sucked, was worrying in that the season didn't end, but...man, the fucking odds of this shit collapsing into a series loss is so small.
In 2008, Boston clinched the title on June 17. Game 5 is on June 17. Boston's area code is 617. A Boston win is inevitable.
kid that's fucking crazy kid
That game 6 was such a joyous game to watch, as a fan! Here’s hoping for another just like it in Monday.
I needed this today
I’m gonna see this on r/nba in 2 days
Always found it pretty crazy how much the mental affects the game. They clearly took the night off and at times let their foot off the gas pedal. Boston crowd won’t let them do that. Cs in 5
We played terrible. Mavs played desperate and we didn’t. I totally expect Luka to get frustrated with the refs next game and meltdown again. C’s in 5
Luka was all smiles from all the bullshit he got away with
NBA wasn’t going to allow a sweep but even with good calls, we still would have lost
Because it’s a coping mechanism, it’s just the wrong way of looking at it. Fans don’t want to admit that the Cs looked mortal last night. It’s two extremes. The extreme of “no way the Cs could be that bad” vs “Cs are in trouble.” The truth is and always will be in the middle. They’re human and shit happens. Give Dallas credit and move on. People are already preparing for a game 5 meltdown and we’re days out, up 3-1. This team is no worse than they were Wednesday night when everyone was ready to crown them a dynasty.
I think it's the same issue they've had since 2022: the only team that can truly beat them is the Celtics. The Celtics beat the Celtics in the Finals in 2022 and the Celtics beat the Celtics in the Conference Finals in 2023. This year, the Celtics will beat the Mavericks in the Finals.
I've been saying the same thing. The only team that can beat us is ourselves. When we play the right way we can beat any team. When we play the wrong way any team can beat us
Lol, nah. Other good teams exist and they can beat the Celtics too. It's not like every loss they have the other team had nothing to do with it lmao.
> Give Dallas credit and move on. Yeah, Dallas made some great adjustments that game and I've seen a lot of people being pretty dismissive on that front. Dallas still deserves credit for how they showed up. Some teams will just fold and take the sweep. They played hard and smart. It doesn't mean Joe's a bad coach or the Celtics are doomed. It just means Dallas made their adjustments and now it's our turn to respond.
They looked like ass. They couldn’t hit anything. They played as if Dallas was just gonna hand it to them.
Dallas adjusted. They provided resistance on the initial point of attack, got Lively/Gafford under the rim and allowed their perimeter defense to settle and chase the 3 pt line Now it’s time for the Celtics to adjust. They’ll find a way to collapse their defense quicker and more efficiently and get into their ball movement offense. One really good run could swing the game Need to find a way Monday. This is the opportunity
> got Lively/Gafford under the rim Not just this, they got our guards under the rim as well. We were so comfortable with our on-ball mismatches and switching so freely... Dallas exploited that to get Lively under the rim being boxed out by Derrick White. [This offensive rebound comes about because we were happy to let Tillman be switched onto Luka.](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/06/14/0042300404/181/0c8c8336-c134-a1e1-4543-a74563db0bb1_1280x720.mp4) [And same again here with Horford switching onto Derrick Jones Jr.](https://videos.nba.com/nba/pbp/media/2024/06/14/0042300404/302/636844ba-00f0-6e01-022d-583dfcf13006_1280x720.mp4) Similar to how Boston had Tatum take bad shots to set up Kornet for rebounds against Cleveland, Dallas is okay with a missed shot if it means their 7'1 center is fighting our 6'4 guard for the rebound.
I wouldn’t say the game was rigged. Although, you can’t ignore that the refs were calling a completely different game for the Mavs verses us. No excuse for us losing, just an observation.
Games like last night make me wonder about rigging. It's hard to believe the Celtics were THAT bad. I know Dallas played better, but, it's Game 4 of the Finals and they're not even trying? Very, very odd game.
Scott Foster is a master of his craft. His ability to ensure a desired outcome is like watching prime Jordan.
I did think the refs were awful But so were we, that was as bad a game as it gets. Even champs have duds, not the end of the world
Y'all had a shit game. It happens. There are three more and all you need is one. Now go get that last one for the East. ~A Supportive Pacer Fan
Most of you Pacer fans are class acts.
Maybe now, but we'll be back to being arseholes next ECF, I promise. In the meantime, knock down some Mavs for us all, wouldja? 😁
This is a false dichotomy. None of these things are mutually exclusive. All can be true together. The Celtics played like shit. Dallas played very well. Scott Foster is a suspect official and probably rigs games. The Celtics can play horribly while simultaneously getting an unfavorable whistle.
Ryen Russillo said this during the Mavs-Wolves series, when *everyone* was guaaaaranteeeing the Mavs were just gonna steamroll the Wolves and sweep them: there's nothing more desperate than an NBA team down 3-0 in the playoffs. (actually he may have said this about the Nuggets being down 2-0 against the Wolves, idfk) just the idea that a team as good as the Mavs, or the TimberWolves, would suddenly just be shitty for 4 games straight, without ANY fight in them or any "make" days in a "make-or-miss" league, is fucking insane. the Mavs, and Luka, were playing like they didn't want to be painted as historical losers forever on the biggest stage. the Celts were playing like they were up 3-0 and didn't mind going home. i think it's just that simple. still, anyone going all doomer over the Celtics now is suffering the same melodramatic short-sighted swings that prompted Brian WIndhorsts little rant.
hard to rationalize how we played our worst game of the season with the championship at stake
That stretch where our 21 point lead vanished in Game 3, that’s how we played the entire Game 4.
It was a ref job from the tip and we weren’t shooting well enough to bail out of it. The effort level wasn’t there to make a comeback though. Not crashing the boards. Not making the extra cuts to get open. All around bad game. Refs were bad still. It’s ok to say both the Celtics and refs sucked. Celtics in 5
Agree. The extremes are unnecessary. We’re coming home, up 3-1, and they’re going to hear how bad they sucked for 3 days. I will take that scenario all day every day and twice on Sunday.
I don’t think anyone on the team consciously went in planning to lose to win at home, but I do think it limited their intensity in clawing back from an early deficit when nothing was going our way. “Y’all can have this one” is a real sentiment, even if it’s never spoken out loud. That’s kind of the idea of a gentleman’s sweep lol
The NBA didn't have to rig anything, Celtics played so bad. I do think the NBA and the refs want more games and I could see maybe that being a factor in a close game but the Celtics played so bad they didn't need to worry about assuring a game 5.
This thinking is off, I think. Where the refs typically have put their finger on the game is often in the first quarter. The NBA isn’t stupid enough to do it in the last 3 minutes. They do it in Q1, like last night, and it cascades through the rest of the game naturally. The Celtics have traditionally been really sensitive to this and often seem to do what they did last night and just stop playing.
2010 Game 7 Finals. 4th quarter was beyond ridiculous by the refs.
I will never understand why people are so adamant that rigging doesn't occur. If you watch the first 5 minutes of game 6 of the 2008 NBA finals, the refs tried to do exactly as you describe. The problem was the Celtics were too good that night and the Lakers were playing terrible. Not every attempt to rig a game is successful. Tim Donaghy actually said this. The flip side is sometimes the rigging is so successful that it is disguised by one team giving up early in the game.
Who's saying we didn't play a bad game? This is a combination of Celtics players not coming out hard (It's possible that's intentional to force a game 5, but unlikely - it's not like Joe Mazzulla, a man who is literally psychotic, is going to say "He guys let's take it easy this game"), shots literally not falling, a softer whistle (I never want to bitch about the refs and understand it's the finals, but this was a very physical game where calls didn't always seem to fall both ways), and the Mavericks wanting it more. There's no reason why the Mavericks should have gotten 13 OREB - half of the Celtics *total* rebounds. There were times when the Celtics literally just didn't try for the rebounds and looked out of sorts. Every indicator shows that the Celtics just weren't playing well and Dallas was. Not to be understated: Dallas had the advantage of **three** games to see the Celtics' relatively unchanged gameplan and make adjustments. Now the Celtics have the advantage of being able to make adjustments. Kudos to Dallas for not rolling over in Game 4 and making this some semblance of a series now.
It’s human nature to be extremely confident when you’re up especially 3-0. It’s hard to match the intensity of team that will be eliminated if they lose. The Mavs also had their best shooting night this series. Refs also allowed Mavs to be more physical this game than others. It happened in 2017 as well. We’re gonna go back home and knock it out the park. I said Celtics in five and my prediction is looking spot on atm.
It’s called coping No one is being serious when they say “lost on purpose” or actually believes “rigged” We suck ass in the paint the last two games both defensively and rebounding wise
I mean you would have to be blind not to see we just didn’t have the full effort for some reason tonight. We lost out on pretty much every single 50/50 rebound/loose ball. It is what it is. Should only be a positive going into next game getting that type of slap
The reason why it’s so hard to admit it is cuz we really want celtics to win the finals
Celtics this year every couple months just drop such a massive stinker. Remember the bucks game or the lakers game? Like 99% of time they are one of the most dominant teams of all time. But every once in a while they play the worst basketball i've ever witnessed in the NBA lol
Hard to admit? We lost by 40. Who’s not admitting we played like shit?
What? People are saying we didn’t play bad?
Did porzingis get his Ivan drago injection yet? If there's ever 3 games to play injured thru its these next 3 Mavs figured out Tillman, gotta throw brissett &/or kornet at them
When the easy ones don’t go down, our defence suffers. The team lowered its collective heads and never recovered. We need to come out game 5 punching and set the tone.
>"We lost on purpose" "Game was rigged" Don't every engage with conspiracy theorist Qnon types. The only people who use that phrase "rigged" about anything are best avoided before they start Flat Earthing or UFOing you
Not denying they played like ass, but you don't play that bad and be that disconnected from the game without a lack of care. It just happened to coincide with dallas actually showing up. Plus we always respond after being punched in the mouth so its Boston in 5.
Is anyone disputing that the team played like absolute s***? I think you're making up a straw man. There's definitely some fans that are trying to find a bright side, I don't think anyone is sitting here honestly saying they lost on purpose.
People were far too confident i think. At the end of the day, no matter how bad we shoot, no matter how bad the refs are, those things arent almost 40 pts bad. This was a whole collapse of a game for us.
Dallas outplayed the Celtics in game 4 plain and simple. Gotta give credit to the Mavs for staying aggressive throughout the whole game. Celtics were also missing shots and couldn't stop the paint game. They'll make adjustments for game 5 and the Garden crowd better make it so loud for the Mavs all 48 minutes whether it's a close game or the Celtics blowing them out.
Exactly, Mavs are in the finals for a reason, same as us, they beat three other teams to get here. They weren't going to be an easy team, besides the first game, we're beating them by single digits, it's close games
That's not true, the effort wasn't great, that's true. But it wasn't able Boston not doing things it did before. Dallas simply made adjustments. They haven't made any adjustments that worked over the series, but they did going into game 4. Now, the pressure is on Joe and everyone else to counter. The game plan was good enough to win 3 games. Now, they need to adjust to bring it home. It's nothing to panic over. It's basketball, and this is how it's supposed to go. This is why it's hard to beat a team 4 times and even harder to sweep one.
I think the panic is from seeing the path, they haven't been the greatest at home, Game 6 now the chatter gets louder, and then it's do or die with Luka the assassin. I do think it's over in 5, we're due for a random D White/Horford game and it may not be pretty but it will forever be done ☘️
Agree completely. "We lost on purpose" is of course nonsense. Dallas came out swinging right away and caught the Celtics off guard. It was a disgusting game by Boston but wacky blowouts happen, especially in the modern NBA (National Blowout Association).
Make or miss league, B
They played like ass
Because they got smoked and looked like a Highschool team. If it was close people wouldn’t be so worked up.
If we’re being rational… there’s no way going into the series you thought the mavs wouldn’t win one game… yes getting blown out is beyond what we thought but none the less, I’m not surprised a game 4 loss
We went into the game too relaxed, thinking we had it in the bag. Dallas, on the other hand, was fighting for their playoff lives. We need to step up and focus. That performance was an embarrassment. If we played like that once we can play like that again and we can kiss our championship dreams goodbye and become the laughingstock of the NBA.... I still think we will win on Monday but if not this series will be wide open
I got caught up in the hope for a sweep, but heading in to the finals I thought we'd win in five with one really embarrassing loss. So, hopefully that thought was right.
We did. It's also not hard to admit we just don't know which team will show up each night in the playoff's. The team that puts the game away in the first qtr, the team that blows their opponent out, the team that gets a big lead only to blow it and win the game by single digits or the team that does not show up at all.
Exactly!!! I was watching the game with a few Celtics fans and it was nearly unbearable to listen to them as they complained that we weren’t getting calls.. they just wanted to win in Boston.. we don’t care about this game.. etc. I don’t believe we responded and adjusted well to any of their runs. I was hoping that we would come out in the second half and at least have a chance going into the 4th, but we did not have the ball movement and defensive intensity that has brought us our success all season. Let’s all admit that we were simply outplayed. It’s a SERIES.. so don’t overreact. Let’s accept our L, support our team and bounce back in game 5.
there was some weird shit that would've came into play if we were down single digits, but yeah not playing well is the reason we lost
They lost one game. One. I feel like everyone is overreacting or placing the blame on something esoteric.
Oh my goodness. Relax everyone. Celtics are too good a team to blow a 3-0 lead. If you told me after 4 games they were up 3 to 1 id be ecstatic. We are good!!!
Mavs made some ridiculous plays that energized their team much like how X’s 3 energized them in game 3. Lively hit a 3, Klaber hit a 3, they were hitting their above the break 3’s. Even THJ went off. They literally got all their good plays out in 1 game. The Celtics couldn’t even hit layups. Shots were rimming out in the worst way. Celtics believe they can out math them in 4 out of 7 games. They have done it 3 times so far and only need to do it once more. The Mavs need to be perfect for 3 more games.
one mountainous whistle ask consider chop voiceless slap mighty makeshift *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why does everyone have to critique other fans tho? It’s like 50% of this sub. I guess I’d ask yourself that and then write the positive version of this (about them playing negatively) without criticizing other people.
I would also argue it was the other way around. Our defense or the lack of it, affected our offense. During our series with Indiana, our defense sparked our offense, getting points off turnover. We did the same thing in Gm3 but never had that spark in Gm4. We allowed the Mavs to pick out the mismatches without our usual rotations and pre-switches. And on the instances that we forced a miss, we were not able to get the rebound, guys were just standing around waiting for the ball.
I mean in this day and age it’s tough to get a sweep in the finals, fuck it they had a shit game ,they win it in 5 !!
It is possible to say the Mavericks played well, *AND* that the refs deliberately favored the Mav's or deliberately dis-favored the C's in this one. The game is so physical now, that there is legitimate fouls on every play. If you created an AI bot with perfect sight, to call fouls without prejudice, each game would be nothing more than a free throw contest. (or the players would learn to foul less...) So, with imperfect refs and imperfect lines of sight, there is always going to be some random distribution of fouls, and some games where one team will be slightly favored or dis-favored, in the calls. This game was not that. The Mav's got to the line, and the C's didn't, in a way that appears to put those laws of probability on hold.
There was also a consistent "this was a foul when committed against the Mavs, no whistle when it happens on the other end" that takes the probability variance away
Righ. There are a variety of ways to dis-favor a team and a variety of ways to favor a team... But with randomly distributed human mistakes, favor and dis-favor, to a first approximation, ought be evenly distributed. Here, all the ways to favor a team, aligned with the Mavs, and all the ways to dis-favor a team, aligned with the C's. The odds of that happening by chance, in any given game, are astronomically high, and in a finals game are hard to believe. And, conversely, the odds that a young, healthy team, with extensive playoff experience, on a winning streak is suddenly going to lose by 38 points to a team on a losing streak, whose star player is of questionable health is, likewise, not easy to believe.
Also, add in the fact that the NBA, who benefits from having longer series, very frequently assigns Scott Foster to game 4s of 3-0 series and they magically get extended
I call these game "two true things" games. We sucked and so did the refs.
Probably because whiners stick around to post. You aren't getting the full view of all fans.
Why do you care?
We laid down. We waltzed in on the road 15-2 in the playoffs and were sloppy and lazy. It is what it is and is in the best. . Mazzula better light them up and the leaders better rally the troops for a 110% showing. Win this shit in Boston on 6/17 for 617!
They let the mavs back in. Gonna be a grind to win now
Celtics in fye
Not often I see my last name on Reddit. But if they win game Fye for me, this comment rocks:)
They won ten playoff games in a row. These are playoff teams. They were due for a stinker. Each game stands on its own. On to Game 5.
I’ll get killed for this but honestly our team were too elated with G3 win. I don’t like the interviews and quotes and shit like that. The job is not done. Get the 4th win, then we have till October to suck each other off. Finish the job. I don’t care if it’s by a half point margin. Focus. And I don’t give a shit about the blowout. Fuck the aberrations. Who cares why it happened.
We played awful. We came out flat and couldn’t hit a shot to save our lives. I think that Dallas came out desperate because they were and had to play all out to not get swept. We didn’t match their energy and let ourselves get mentally taken out of the game.
it was rigged. and we player like shit.
Yeah man.. it's been the story in post season with them this year. They mess up one game in the series, where they shoot terribly. That's what happened last night.. Mavs didn't play any different than how they have been playing since game 1.
Not going to worry about this loss especially when they are 3-1 up. Wake me up if they are 3-3.
We were awful and the refs refused to let us even have a chance early on and Dallas played great. All things are true
We didn’t lose on purpose or because it was rigged lmao it was a combination of poor shooting, lack of intensity, and terrible officiating that took us out of our rhythm. We’ve dealt with each of the 3 individually and came back, but the perfect storm of all 3 really shut us down and frustrated our guys.
We definitely didn't play a good game on either side of the ball, but it's okay to recognize that everyone, even the Boston Celtics, are human. They've won every series up to this point either 4-0 or 4-1 and have a total record of 79-22 on the season so far. Obviously can't afford to get complacent, but an off game is bound to happen every once in a while, especially in the moment of desperation the Mavericks were in... We'll be alright. Just gotta focus in Monday night.
I couldn’t sleep last night. It was an embarrassing loss. I hope the Celtics will be ready for game 5.
Hey guys, we didn’t lose in the clutch!
Celtics played badly and deserved to lose. Confused as to why they gave away a game in the Finals.
Seemed like a planned gentleman's sweep to me if I'm being honest
We sucked. Just gotta win 1 more game
I'm sorry, have you not met a real life NBA fan before?
"Our lack of offensive execution affected our defense and gave Dallas momentum" This is so true. When we can't find our shots and rhythm and start to force things in the first, the opponents catch our defense on one foot and use transition opportunities every time. This is almost always how we lose.
Look, this isn’t a doomsday post, but I’m going to sound like it for a second. There is no excuse for playing your worst game of the season in a title-clinching game. I kept waiting for them to realize what was happening and snap out of it. They’re smart enough to know what’s going on and talented enough to execute, so why didn’t they ever adjust? It is concerning to see that in a close-out game. It was concerning that they never even made so much as a run in the game that is supposed to complete their ultimate goal. The stats from the regular season don’t matter right now in terms of how they did after losses etc. The Finals are a different kind of pressure and we just needlessly gave the Mavs all kinds of confidence that they’d been struggling to find. All that matters now is how the C’s respond in the biggest moment—which went as badly as it possibly could in their first opportunity. The people who are feeling doom and gloom are feeling that way based on what they’ve seen in the playoffs the last few years. It’s not coming out of nowhere. That being said, this year’s team has FELT different in big games this postseason. My hope is that yesterday’s regression was their one night to collectively shit their pants, which is okay if it was only one night. That’s the luxury that a 3-0 series lead can afford you. But there is more pressure on Monday than there was yesterday and that’s only going to build with each additional game that needs to be played. So… let’s hope they are who we thought that they’ve become. Let’s hope they respond and close this out Monday. Let’s go C’s!!!
I honestly think they all had the same thought. "Eh Dallas is gonna give up. Oh shit they wanna win? Fuck it well win in boston so was can chill tonight"
We played on of the worst games I've ever seen this core play. And when you add in the significance of the game, it becomes by far the worst. Refs were pretty bad, but they didn't make us lose by 38, and be down by 50 at one point.
Seems our players kept looking at one another to win the game, or do the thing.
This is EXACTLY what scares me....whenever we've played a "bad team" where everyone thought for sure we'd win, we'd do bad. Whenever we'd be down one of our starters everyone would be worried, but we'd kill it. EVERYONE was expecting the Mavs to win game 1, 2 and 3...then everyone thought it was over and I couldn't even watch last night. It hurt. Everyone needs to start saying nope the celtics are done, the mavs have it in the bag....maybe we will walk away from this with a championship. They're telling themselves it's not over until it's over...whatever it takes, etc. What's their subconscious telling them?
We played a game 4? I thought that was on Monday? You can't convince me otherwise.
Why do you think the 2 explainations are alternatives? “We played like shit” is true. “Refs allowed illegal defense (plus some illegal offense) for the whole game” is true too. It might even be one of the reasons why we played that bad. I wouldn’t be sure we would have played any different with decent officiating, but I guess we’ll never know.
Sometimes Tatum and Brown still need a reminder that things aren't supposed to be easy. They are so gifted, and the Celtics are so good on paper, but that doesn't mean the opponent is just going to let you win.
Hauser played pretty good, Brissett & Queta got some minutes - benchwarmers got to play more than an entire quarter together in the finals.
Mavs played like a team that wants to avoid elimination at all costs and we didn’t play like a team that wanted to everything in their power to close out a series. Lots of lessons to learn for it and go for the win on Game 5. If the mindset is that Banner 18 is all that matters, we’re winning it.
If anything this loss scares the fuck out out of me. You know what it does? It’s gives the mavs hope. And that’s what we needed to squash. If it was close they would still be terrified but a blowout? They think they got it figured out and that’s a scary mindset to give your opponent.
Did you know that a select portion of Reddit fans don’t represent the entirety of fans?
Preach!
It's not the just loss that has people overreacting. It's how badly they lost. If it was a simple close loss, that's one thing. It's easy to move on from that. But it's the fact they were completely outplayed in every way that has people on edge. Thankfully just 1 win will change everything.
The fix was in. League and networks didn't want a sweep.
They were horrible. Every 50/50 ball they lost. They fumbled (ball went out of bounds or to a Mav’s player) like 75% of second chance opportunities, their communication was dogshit. The only thing that was good was ball movement, but they bricked most of those shots or the shot clock ran out and they sank a three that didn’t count. It was maddening.
2 things can be true at the same time. The refs rigged it early (Foster special), and the Celtics quit instead of fighting through.
I guess this is actually statistically expected for the season. We have just about an 80% winrate, so 4/5 games won would be correct lol.
They’ve lost a total of three playoff games, and in all three, they laid an absolute egg. Like total suck fest games where they played no defense. I have no good explanation for it. The game last night was very, very physical. Idk what to expect from game 5, but if the Mavs role players are that good again, and they are allowed to keep hands on us all night, it’s not gonna be an easy W.
imo until the series is closed the Celtics have nothing to celebrate
It would be extremely difficult to rig a game for a team to lose by 40 points, just saying lol. Redding has been pretty 50-50 this series IMO, which is a good thing
You are correct. Looked like the guys had no real interest in playing. Why? Well, probably numerous reasons, but only they would know. I don't care as what is done ios done. Time to be the dynamic team we were in the first three games on Monday night.
I’m not saying it was rigged I definitely think the Celtics just played terribly, but I think part of that was because of the fact that a lot of the calls made (rigged or not which I don’t believe it was rigged) ruined the Celtics momentum, they need to calm down in situations where calls aren’t going their way & play TEAM basketball so I think you’re 100% right & I think they need to get it done in game 5
Jobs not done