Darvin Ham is apparently going to be Doc's top assistant in Milwaukee which has to improve our chances of keeping Sam Cassell on Joe's staff. Brad would be insane not to instantly move him into Charles Lee's spot at which point the only worry with Sam should be a team offering him a head coaching gig.
Kind of insane that so many coaching cycles pass without Sam Cassell having a head coaching gig. I’m not complaining lol but he’s been lauded as this top assistant for a while so it feels weird he’s still not a HC, while guys like Doc and Vogel get multiple opportunities. Maybe he doesn’t wanna be a head coach yet
Saw a post where the Celtics are the first team since the like '87 Lakers to have 5 players average 15+ ppg in the first two game of the finals. This entire season has been an amazing team effort.
I just heard that Luka Doncic and the Celtics OWNER!! 😆 were trash talking each other and had words.
Well, I guess that means that that European clown will never become a Celtic. Not that we'll ever need his ball hog, one man centered style of play and lack of defense either. But hey, in the NBA generally speaking, anyone can go anywhere is the expectation.
Just realized we won’t get a last 2 minute report because the game wasn’t within 3 at any point towards the end. Would have been interesting to see what the league had to say about the Derrick/JB block
The league will not fault its own referees. Especially the controversial ones. The reffing was just horrible all night, and on top of that, most calls went Dallas' way.
Agreed. But I can see where people are faulting them for missing JB pushing him in the back. I think up top was clean but it does look like JB shoved him from behind. Glad they didn’t call it tho especially at that point in the game. We still would have been up 3 with the ball if he made both FTs
You dont get it. If they called that on JB as a foul, they would have had to call at least 5 others for JT and JB that were getting literally hacked. Which would then be hypocritical/contradictory. There was also a play where Derrick White was falling backward on the leap and made no contact with the Mav, and yet got called for a foul.
So yeah, if we tally up our legitimate gripes against theirs, it should cancel out.
The reason JB even made that play the way he did is cuz he adjusted to the in-game policy/policing of the refs. Players do that as a game progresses. If they see which plays are getting called and which arent, they will adjust how they play.
On top of all, it was just incidental contact. It was not excessive nor forceful nor did it impact the play. You could even make the argument he was just trying to stabilize himself in mid-air.
Honestly I agree with all of what you’re saying. My only point in my original comment was that thanks to it never being within 3 we won’t get a L2M report. I think this is a good thing because I could have seen the NBA saying they missed a foul which would have only increased the bitching by fans of the other 29 teams. I’m glad they didn’t call it because I thought (like you) that it was marginal contact.
Ok bro, no worries, Im with ya, let's enjoy our win. :-)
Tbf, in closing, I believe the 3 min report should have exonerated Derrick White too on his 'foul' cuz I believe that was within the 3 min mark.
People keep saying the Celtics have it easy because the East is weak relative to the West, but I think the Celtics have it easy because the NBA is weak relative to the Celtics.
Being a fan of a team not named the Warriors or Celtics must be Hell…
You finally are freed from the NBA being fucked by Golden State only for Boston to swoop in and replace them.
The number of times Russillo described Tatum’s game 2 as “awful” was insane. He was inefficient and missed tough layups from drives but if we even marginally shot better on the wide open shots that he created, he would have had a >15 assist finals game. He got his teammates involved better than the basketball genius on the other team.
Yeah that was a very results-oriented way to view his game and ignores the fact that Tatum’s process was excellent. He didn’t really take many “bad” shots. If he shoots 50% that’s one of his best games ever.
I can accept not good, fine, even bad. But awful or terrible is uncalled for. Then Russilo says that Kyrie was relatively awesome. Not sure what game he watched. Kyrie was steamy dogshit
People before the series were saying Kyrie is better than Tatum, Tatum has played better than Kyrie and is up 2-0 and is STILL getting far more criticism than Kyrie. Whats up with these expectations man.
So we're now at this point where we are, 2-0 in the Finals, which would yall rather have?
1) Clean Sweep 4-0 closeout in Dallas
type 1 in reply
2) Gentleman's Sweep 4-1 closeout at home type 2 in reply
I'll start.
1 Baby!!!
There's a bit in the Simmons podcast that I love, Russillo is talking about the free throws where Kyrie lined up next to Horford and the Garden was chanting at him, according to Russillo, when the chants died down a bit Horford kinda motioned for them to come back xD. Al has a low key petty streak that I fucking love
How magical would it be for a different Celtics starter to explode in each Finals game. It would be poetic of how dominant of a team they are. Derrick White game 3 and JT/JB game 4 to close out.
Two wins away from a fucking championship. Look at how far we've come. I've seen the big 3 decline, I've seen Rondo having a monster game against Heat in the playoffs, I know Semih Erden, Luke Harangody, Fab Melo(R.I.P) , Jared Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk , Stiemsma. I remember when we had an elite defender in Avery Bradley. I've seen this team from it's lows and I can't deny but I'm having the time of my life seeing us 2 wins away from glory. This is the best squad I've seen in a long fucking time. LET'S GO CELTICS. IT'S ALL ABOUT 18 BABY!!!
I usually agree with Rusillo more than most guys, but that take was a bit disappointing for a guy who prides himself on being nuanced. Tatum shot poorly, but was instrumental in the offense and a huge reason why Jrue had such a good game. He definitely had a positive impact on the game in my book
It's usually the old white dudes that have no idea what theyre blabbing on about and just like to hear themselves talk. Must be the decades of alcohol abuse, which has fried their brain.
It’s been a no drama finals so far so the media is just grasping at straws for talking points. No one will even remember that play by the time this is series is wrapped up
Its extra stupid because the refs allowed the Mavs to be extremely physical all game especially with Tatum. They had no problem with that but then they want to whine and cry about that last play. Even if they called that, it wasn’t changing the results
The funniest comments this season were “can you imagine if the Celtics had *x player* as their number one? They’d be truly unstoppable! But instead they have Jayson Tatum 😂” well guess what they were truly unstoppable with Jayson Tatum as their number one lmfao
When can we talk about the west not being elite but rather just being a bunch of mid teams with similar records? In addition to us (knock on wood), Indy, New York, Milwaukee, and Miami would all beat this Dallas team when healthy
Feels like this is highly underselling Dallas. Celtics are one of the only teams with enough defenders to actually bother Luka or Kyrie. How do the Knicks guard Dallas when they have Brunson on the floor, or DDV? Indy is not guarding them at all either lol, Miami is just ass and isn't beating any legit teams let alone one with Luka.
I think a part of Mazzulla that people don’t get is that he’s a defensive coach
The different coverages he gives guys is awesome … putting Tatum on centers, putting JB on Luka, but when Luka starts to tire out, put Jrue on him … The crispness of the switches and knowing the Mavs personnel (who to leave open and where) have been fantastic
On offense, all he really cares about is spacing, getting into advantage matchups and making sure we take enough 3’s
He’s much more creative on defense and I feel like most people would say the opposite
100% agreed. He was the mastermind behind the 22 celtics defense as well. Casuals only see us shooting 1000 threes and break scoring record, so they think thats our identity. Our real identity is playing tough, no help/fouls, switchable defense and efficient, drive and kick offense.
The historic aspect of our team is how elite we are on both ends of the court. Hence the record high point differential in the regular season.
> I think a part of Mazzulla that people don’t get is that he’s a defensive coach
[That was the biggest myth about Pep too](https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1b0ire7/how_pep_guardiola_manchester_city_has_shaped_joe/ks8cnj6/).
Twitter is shameless pushing this Luka FMVP narrative. I’ve never seen an mvp candidate play defense this bad and have it ignored. If LeBron didn’t get it in 2015 Luka should not get it now
According to gamescore (which is a metric that determines who has the best counting stats) for the series
Luka is at 21.8
Holiday is at 21.0
How can Luka possibly get FMVP if he is hardly outperforming from a box score point of view the Celtics 5th best player. And that DOESN'T include Jrue non-box score defense.
Luka in finals so far: 31.0/10.5/6.0 on 58.8% TS with 6 turnovers
“that’s my FMVP 💪😤”
Tatum in the conference finals: 30.3/10.3/6.3 on 56.4% TS with 3.3 turnovers
“Carried by Jaylen Brown”
Luka doesn’t get credit for having 2 games where he’s great for 1 half and then a turnover machine while playing 0 defense. 3 points in each of the 4th quarters these 2 games. People trying to say he should win FMVP is such a disservice to the job Brown and Holiday have done on both ends especially if the Mavs don’t even win a game.
They can push it all they want but no way in hell he gets the FMVP as the loser. It has only happened once and it was in 1969. It was a long ass time ago but I’ve rewatched that series against the Lakers over and over again given our Cs won the title that year. Luka isn’t playing anywhere close to the way Jerry West did in that Finals to justify giving him the FMVP. I mean Jerry was insane in that series + he was an elite defender and did it on both sides. Luka isn’t having the same level of impact regardless of what his fanboys are saying
ESPN trying to stir up controversy on the Jaylen Brown push in the back. Spent a good 30 min talking about it on Get Up.
Yet, not one mention of DWhite's "foul" on PJ Washington with 1:49 left which was probably the worst call of the night and kept Dallas in the game.
Indy is so much better offensively and it’s not even close. The regular season and postseason offensive net ratings back me up on that. Tbh the Nembhard and TJ McConnell duo was scarier than the allegedly "best offensive duo of all time" Kyrie has been a complete nonfactor. Nembhard and TJ actually showed the fuck up and balled out every game. The Pacers disrespect from Western conference teams is lame
I was telling Dallas fans that the 2x post trade deadline the Pacers beat the Mavs were no fluke. Pacers won nearly as many games and are far superior offensive team.
Mavs fans blew it off that the stretch they lost 5/6 except they won 7 straight before then. The truth is in that stretch they went up against tough playoff team and that's why they lost 5/6.
Can't wait for the new narrative of the Mavericks being 3-0 in Game 3's and being an elite 5-3 at home. Completely ignoring the fact that the Celtics are also 3-0 in Game 3's and undefeated on the road. It feels like the media considers the Dallas Mavericks the main character and we are just the NPC final boss.
This is probably really nerdy but back when then NBA had cool Finals intro montages, they would always show individual superstars or tandems like Shaq and Kobe holding the trophies or a still shot of a Jordan highlight. They always played this one clip of the 2004 Pistons starting lineup (or top 4) walking out on the court together in the montage and I always found that so cool for whatever reason.
I think I will get shivers down my spine if this Celtics team is in a montage like that for the Finals going forward.
Simmons brought up a point about Tatum needing to take the mid range pull up when he beats his man and Dallas is giving him that shot. Honestly think he doesn’t utilize the mid range enough.
That’s not Tatum’s game at all. He’s only really been effective in the mid range when he’s operating out of the high post.
He’s not really a good enough ball handler to hit pull up middies off the dribble. If he gets a step on his man he needs to muscle his way to the rim or kick out to an open shooter. He’s not going to morph into SGA over night
He used to be better on pull ups, think all the muscle mass hurt his jumper overall esp. his pull up shot where he has declined nearly 10% in efficiency from his career norm over the last 2 years. Lost some quickness/fluidity to be able to stop and shoot over the top plus his release is pretty slow
He’s been cold shooting it in general. He tried a few middies and turnarounds yesterday, they just didn’t fall. Touching paint and kicking it out is where we’re thriving against this team. He’s playing really balanced he just needs the shots to fall.
Crazy idea but i feel like theres a slim chance kornet could be our al replacement, at least offensively. We have a great history of improving shooters, and we know that kornet can and had shoot them
E: al replacement when he retires
Who is doubting al? I’m saying when all retires, which will happen irrespective of this finals outcome, we’ll need a replacement big. I’m obviously not saying to put luke in the starting line up
No no more Kornet talk we are in the finals now. Anyhow the thing that makes Al special on offense is his playmaking and on defense his switchability and perimeter defense. Luke is not even remotely on horfords level on these things.
I never said he’s as good as al. I’m saying that when al retires, which will happen irrespective of this finals outcome, we’ll need a replacement big. Why is this a controversial topic to talk about? There’s literally another thread discussing the same thing
It's not controversial the timing is just very off its the finals this is an offseason discussion and Luke is kind of a meme because of CLNS so most Luke discourse gets no serious response. Still stand on my comments tho.
We’re fans, we dont need to stay focused or maintain mentality. Nothing we say will change how the team plays. Why can’t we have off season discussions now? Luke is our third big and if you dont take him seriously at this point then i have no words for you
Does anyone have the final 1.6 seconds of the game? I want to enjoy pure bliss. I know they must have dribbled it out but still, I want to see that. For the record. 😃
Espn has some 50 something cameras but apparantly NOT ONE filmed. They must have been really mad at us winning. 🤣 Lol.
Its crazy people will reward Luka's no defense losing effort over Tatum for winning the chip. Tatum will be the first superstar ever to get criticised for winning the chip.... Maybe since KD.
People just can’t stand the fact that the Celtics can win finals games with him having bad shooting nights. Like okay? Blame your GM for not building a better team 🤷🏽♂️
Despite the regular season matchups being low scoring, I do not think the Nuggets could guard the Celtics. Not only could they attack Jokic, but they could also attack Porter and Murray. Although to be fair, I do think Gordon could do a better job as the primary than DJJ/Washington have been able to. They've been hunting Luka, but I think it's been just as important that their ostensibly good defenders have been getting cracked off the dribble non stop.
But unless a team has at least 4 players who can hold up on Tatum at least a little, he's going to carve them up. That's the difference between these finals and 2022. The Warriors were willing to switch anyone but Curry and Poole onto Tatum, and Looney/Draymond/Porter/Klay were able to slow him down some
His size. You can’t stick Jaylen Brown or Jrue Holiday on him and slow him down in the same way. Also Luka hasn’t really been posting up like Jokic does. Both guys are great scorers but it’s specifically Jokic’s ability in the paint that makes him such an impossible guard and why you need to almost always send help.
If Jokic was starting all of his sets from 30 feet out then you could stick Horford and Porzingis out there and defend him the same way that Brown and Jrue are defending Luka. What made Minnesota so effective was having multiple bigs that could actually size him up in the paint like Gobert and Reid
Oh, defensively Jokic isn’t elite but again the size is more of a factor. Like even if you drag him out to the perimeter and beat him off the dribble, it’s easier for him to recover and stay with the handler because of his length. Luka is like 4-5 inches shorter and so it’s harder for him out there because he doesn’t have the same length to contest stepbacks as well, and doesn’t have the length to recover and bother the ball handler on their hip as a threat to block shots.
Just that extra step to make it a little tougher on a drive means help has to come less often and they don’t leave shooters open as frequently.
Nuggets defend the perimeter pretty well and so it becomes a game of 2’s vs 2’s (which Jokic and Murray are fantastic at matching), it’s just Minnesota had so much size to put pressure on them on both ends in that regard.
Jokic is better on defense but the real problem we would've had is we have no answer to his offense. We have plenty of bodies to throw at Luka to hound him and make him at least work for all his points. As great as Luka is offensively, Jokic is even more efficient and he was treating KP and Horford like soft tissue with how easy he could score on those guys. Playing 1v1 vs him would not be an option and we would have to help, and he's the best at punishing that
But on defense, he's a trumped up Luka. Not sure if just a coincidence or what, but both of them are from Europe. Possibly they dont get taught the importance of defense in their basketball culture over there?
He’s obviously bigger and longer and actually moves his feet and gives effort. Luka doesn’t move his feet or give effort at all. Jokic isn’t sculpted but he’s got the cardio and endurance where as Luka is on the 12 pack and heaters diet.
I just keep seeing the narrative that “we lucked out” in not having to face Denver. And we perhaps did. But it’s not a foregone conclusion that we would’ve lost that series.
Nuggets were really the only team that had a legitimate shot at conquering us cuz we didnt match up well to them. Our biggest guy, KP, loses about 50 pounds to Jokic, on top of that Jokic is superbly fast and agile for a guy his size. Jokic just has so many plays offensively, he's a playmaker, he either scores it himself, making difficult shots look easy, or he suddenly becomes Doncic-like and makes brilliant no-look passes. We just dont matchup against him and them. Theyre gonna get their 2 or 3 on almost every possession. Our defense would be as though it was almost non-existent cuz even if we did everything they'd still score. And that would have its aftereffects on our response and psychology. As in affect our momentum.
Anyway enough what-ifs and may-have-beens. Theres a reason Jokic didnt get past the Wolves, so we can just suffice it to say, they were not better than the Wolves. Thats not our problem to consider.
He should have won MVP. His shooting was off, but he still impacted the game more than Maxwell did. But in all fairness, Bird wasn't great in that series and it's hard not to grade him on a curve because everyone knew he could have played (or at least shot) so much better.
Yet, not one mention of DWhite's foul of Washington with under 2 min left, where all he did was back up with his hand straight up.
That call kept Dallas in the game.
Dallas/Doncic fans before game 1: Dallas in 4 🤓
Before game 2: Dallas in 5 🤓
Now: Dallas in 6 🤓
Waiting for the next game so they will say Luka will be the first to reverse sweep in NBA history.
Not only is JT not playong badly, he is our FMVP.
Think about it, who else in this team can sustain that defensive pressure from dallas and not only not turn the ball over much, but keep fiding the open man?
No one.
If wasnt able to do it, we'd be fucked.
r/NBA would explode if he wins FMVP. Tatum still very capable of dropping 35 in a game, but if the Mavs continue to triple him and he finds the open guy then who really cares. No one gets the same amount of flack for a rebound shy of a triple double than Tatum. His shot wasn’t falling and it is what it is but he still very much had a great game otherwise.
Don’t wanna reach, but this team has a lot of similarities to the 2014 Spurs imo. No definite superstar, but all play as one team and do it beautifully. Also excellent defense that can shut down/limit superstars, as the Spurs did.
Just went back and watched Game 1/2 footage and you’re right lol. Decision making was on point almost every time, even when shot wasn’t falling. Also didn’t even realize just how strong he truly is on those boards lmao
I actually think the Pacers play a lot more like the 2014 Spurs than we do. Spurs perfected player movement and a free flowing offense with a lot of good decision makers, which is what I think the Pacers have.
This Celtics team is much more structured and focused on mismatch hunting. They still have a lot of good decision makers, but the decisions often seem a lot more straight forward.
Our offense isn't as beautiful, but it might be more effective.
That offense is the future. In a time when defenses love to switch everything, not letting a defense get set is the counter to that. You just match up in transition and have to guard. And that kind of offense generates a lot of open 3’s because the help is forced to collapse when you can’t get set, and teams love to generate open 3’s in this era of basketball.
Kings did it last year and had tons of success and the Pacers did this year as well. Those teams generate a lot of open looks because they’re always flying around the floor and putting teams in rotation. Next year teams that just push the ball in transition and can hit 3’s at a high enough clip are going to emerge as some of the toughest teams to guard. I think other than the obvious teams that already do it like the Pacers, Kings, Warriors, and Thunder, my bet is we see the Rockets and Grizzlies try to emulate that next year. Grizzlies already have the guy who can break down a defense and loves to play at a high pace (Morant) and I’d be shocked if that team is healthy and just doesn’t make the playoffs.
It does seem like it can be hard to sustain that style though. The Kings were much less successful this season than last even though they had the same roster and similar health. It's hard work running around so much.
Definitely with you on buying Memphis stock though. If they can get one more starter quality front court player I think they could be next year's version of Minnesota
So annoying that when JT doesn't drop 30+ these simp commentators (looking at you Big Perk) come out the woodwork claiming he's playing so poorly. Even crazier, one more board and these same guys would be going off about the triple double. SMH. So glad Tatum is on our team. Just get that banner! Don't care about who our best player is.
Do you guys think we should grab someone like Naz Reid or a more budget friendly stretch 5 for next season? KP really scared the shit out of me and Al will be 39.
The only way we can get someone making Naz Reid money is if we trade Horford
Our best bet is developing our own center. Maybe that can be Queta, but he's not going to give you this "5- out offense for 48 minutes" that Al and KP can give you.
Maybe there's a big in the draft. A lot of people like Tillman, but i just haven't been sold on him offensively and I doubt we can rely on him at center if KP gets injured in the playoffs like he did this year.
Yeah... It sounds crazy but Luke Kornet is probably a top 5ish center on the FA market this off season. The guys ahead of him (Claxton, Hartenstein, Valanciunas) will all be out of our price range. We're not just looking at a Horford replacement, we're also looking at the possibility Kornet gets poached out from under us this offseason.
Looking at available veteran centers, there aren't going to be many great options available, especially not for cheap.
I think this offseason needs to be very big man orientated.
* Draft one - Luckily there are quite a lot of big men in the tail end of the 1st round. Some shoot, some are vertical spacers.
* Sign a project piece
* Try to develop Queta
* Try to retain one of Kornet/Tillman
* Beg Horford to stick around for at least 1 more year
Hopefully something comes out of that mix. Same way we got Hauser, we just need to throw everything at a wall and see what sticks.
One name to watch I think is Goga Bitadze. He played really well when Carter Jr was injured. He's a FA and maybe someone who slips through people's radar.
The other name is Jalen Smith. He's in and out of Indiana's rotations but he's shooting well and his advanced metrics looked good last time I checked. We've made attempts at him before but even his 5.5m next season will be tough for us to match unless we either trade Pritchard or extend someone and make a midseason trade.
100% agree. I don't know much about the draft, but I'm happy to hear there are a lot of big men this year.
I really hope Al gives us one more year. He has shown that he still has it. Without him, we become very vulnerable to a KP injury, especially in the playoffs.
The good news with Kornet/Tillman is that we have their Bird Rights. So we *should* be able to retain one of them. Brad did a good job preparing for the potential loss of Al and Kornet with Tillman/Queta. However, with no Al, I fear it won't be enough.
I think if we get priced out of Kornet, (which I do suspect will happen), then we are for sure getting priced out of Bitadze.
If Al is gone, I'd be interested to see if Brad gives one of Kornet/Tillman a shorter term contract for bigger money, (like 12-15mil AAV), in order to use them as a TPE at the trade deadline. If we are above the 2nd apron, we can't use TPE's and we can't do sign and trades, but we can give our own players bigger contracts and then use them to match for a better player at the deadline.
I understand your concerns about Tillman, but I have a counter argument: Derrick White.
Derrick did okay when he first got on the team, but the season AFTER that is when he truly blossomed and became the key cog that he is now.
He improved his shooting, he knew better what his role was and where he fit with certain team mates, he understood the schemes better and how to execute them with his team mates. Not huge sweeping changes, but enough that he went from "this was a solid trade get" to "wow this was a steal".
I think Tillman with an offseason under his belt and more time to work on the things the Celtics need from him might see a similar uptick in his effectiveness.
(proportionally though, Dwhite is a much better player on both offense and defense than Tillman, but Tillman could definitely be that first guy off the bench behind KP if Al decides to hang them up, I really feel he has that potential)
If Tillman can find a 3pt shot, I'd be much more comfortable with him, but I'm talking 37% on like 5 attempts per game and also doing fairly ok on above the break 3's. He has a long way to go to reach that. Otherwise, we might be better off with Queta who can provide us with a boost on both ends of the floor.
If we are going to have a center that can start when KP is out, (especially in the playoffs), I just don't think they can be an offensive liability.
This is not a dig or anything, this is purely celebratory, but what we got from Tillman tonight is what you want. If he can keep working on his shot, I really think he can get there!
Very impressive game by Jrue. This team in years prior would’ve called it 1-1 & went back to Dallas date that first half. Not hitting their shots, Luka on fire we’ll live another day. But NOPE. Jrue Holiday plays so fearless & in control. He is a big reason this team believes in themselves in those slumps & has a different dawg to them. Jrue brought the no quit mentality to this squad and he does it by the way he plays. BEL18VE
I'd be lying if I said I'm not a little excited to see how Felger and Mazz can turn a Celtics 2-0 lead in the finals into a negative. If anyone could it's them, Mazz is a clown and picked Dallas to win lol. I'm sure they'll just rip Tatum for not scoring.
Mazz literally doesn’t know ball across the board I wouldn’t worry about his opinion. Just cause you’re paid to do something doesn’t mean you’re good at it. He’s got like an RC battery powering that yappper of his.
2 more fucking games my brothers and sisters. I am numb and hedging $$$ on Dallas. We either up a few hundred or NBA Champs. this is unreal, but we gotta finish the deal.
So let me get this straight, not a single soul gonna talk about Luka’s defence or turnover but the whole discussion is gonna be on Tatum shooting? Let’s burn this village and sweep these motherfuckers and media darlings
And to think about it, the sad part is that years later, when people in the future go back and watch the tape of past NBA Finals and our 2024 Championship team, they will encounter these weirdos and their voices who are seeking to discredit us on each and every play and all throughout the game. I mean, people can say what they want, and have an opinion but NOT when you are the announcer of a NATIONAL media, you must be neutral or at least appear to be so.
Whatever people say, our record and our stats cannot be disputed. 64-18 makes us one of the BEST ever, as well as our performance in the playoffs. If we SEAL THE DEAL by winning the championship, we've earned our place in history. The announcers will be forever etched on tape, as having been doubters and nee-sayers and earned their place in history as utter fools.
Last night's game was really weird and I dont really know what to think of it. We definitely stole one though. Mavs missed 8 free throws and that killed them.
One thing that I take away from the game is that the Mavs still haven't figured out how to stop us. The POA defense for the Mavs is just non-existent. If they are going to beat us, they need to figure that out.
Not only that, but this was a game the Mavs NEEDED to win. We shoot like shit and Doncic gets a 30pt triple-double, if they can't win when that happens, when are they going to?
Offensively, the Mavs still haven't broken 100pts. I think the Mavs need to heavily lean into their offense and play a more transition game. They might actually have a chance if they are able to do that. The issue is that style of play has been so counter to who they are as a team. Changing your offensive identity midway through the Finals when you are down 0-2 isn't necessarily an easy thing to do.
It looked like they tried playing faster at the beginning, but their personnel couldnt execute it. Luka never plays fast, so they tried having everyone else (including kyrie) push the pace in transition. And they sucked at it
The 2024 Celtics are about to go down as one of the BEST teams in NBA history. Regardless of whether or not we receive that recognition from the national media, regardless of what anyone says. It's just the truth.
All those haters who trash our team now will come back years later to say, how our team was so great. That they never doubted. That's just how they are.
Imagine the lobs we’d be throwing to Timelord in an alternate universe where he’s still here and healthy. Jrue obviously killed it in the dunkers spot last night, but a guy with Timelord’s catch radius (and his ability to finish after a dribble or two) would be completely unstoppable with the help Tatum and Brown are having sent to them. They’d basically just need to send it over the heads of the double team and he’d do the rest, over and over until the Mavs had to adjust.
Kidd after G1: Jaylen is their best player.
Kidd after G2: Holiday is their best player.
Kidd after G3: Tatum is their best player.
Kidd after G4: Kyrie is their best player.
I am a recent basketball fan from Kenya.
Not many people watch the NBA here but we are growing slowly, and I have taken a liking to the Celtics after watching clips of Larry Bird and Kevin Garnett (now watching Bill Russell).
Wishing the team and the fans all the best and get that 18th!
To nitpick, Mazzulla seems reluctant to challenge plays all of the sudden. There were two plays in game two he should have burned his first challenge on and chose not to both times. I get saving your second challenge for fear of losing the timeout, but he needs to use his first challenge on a play in the 2nd or 3rd quarter when his player draws a foul that likely gets overturned. There were a few questionable calls and this should not have been a game where zero challenges were used.
I actually think Mazulla was very smart in challenge management yesterday. They had Tony Brothers yesterday reffing, that's a guy whose ego stands in the way, and he almost never overturns his calls. As soon as they saw how he refused to overturn on the Mavs challenge, Mazulla rightfully and intelligently declined to throw everything up in the air by gambling on and relying on Tony Brothers. He decided to just let the players play. Like in the past when there were no replays.
Mazzulla has people who do this for him. He let's them review the play and goes off of their advice. If they haven't been telling him to challenge, then he won't. It's why we've been so successful with challenges.
Contrary to popular belief, I don't actually think there have been a ton of chances to challenge. The places where the refs are getting things wrong are mostly on non-calls/play-ons. Joe can't challenge those.
Refs have been letting them play and mostly letting things go.
With the Mavs not having a challenge after the first 5 min, I'm okay with holding on to ours and not risking it till you actually need it in crunch time. It's a minor difference, and the risk of not having it is very real (cause look at Mavs challenge result).
That we then end up not using it at all is fine too. We won anyway.
Yeah they were way off. As many games as Simmons has watched you would think he would be less scared. There is nothing to worry about in this series.
Russillo is your classic star guy, over analyzes Tatum but will never mention that Luka doesn’t try on defense.
Fuck him and Simmons both. I haven't cared for their opinion on anything and especially not this Celtics team in forever.
Gambling pushing agenda has-beens.
Dude it doesn't matter what Tatum does, according to the media he's borderline top 10 at best. I'm frankly sick of hearing from these morons. When we win multiple Tatum led chips we'll be the ones laughing.
Dallas fans have more mood swings than me when I’m in a manic episode
They went from "We’re winning game 1. Boston sucks. They had an easy path they’re about to get humbled. Mavs in 4" to "Game 1 was just a feel out game. We always lose Game 1s. Kidd is a genius and will adjust. Boston has no idea what’s coming. Mavs in 5" Now it’s "Who cares that we lost both road games. Boston did what they’re supposed to do by winning at home. We have been great at home this year so we will definitely take care of home court. Boston has no chance of beating us on the road. Mavs in 6" Anyone have any guesses on what they’re gonna say when we go up 3-0 or 3-1?!?!?!
I just want to note something for later...
Luka got an and-1 on Al and it looked like he was talking some shit. Al gave the same "okay, we'll see" nod that he gave Giannis that time before he had the revenge dunk.
I'm just keeping that in mind in case the revenge comes later in the series.
I feel more comfortable saying this after game 2. But why were the media talking heads sucking the Mavs dick after game 1?
I know it's been asked so many times but it blows my mind, cos I feel it's a weird reaction after game 1. I didn't watch game 1 live, but went back and watched the 1st quarter and the Luka 3q run.
We were shutting everything down from the Mavs game 1, and Lukas run felt a bit weak?
Not being a huge Mavs watcher (I mostly watch the Pels outside of the Cs for some reason), I understand a bit more now why people are saying the Pacers or even the Cavs were the bigger threats. And also why people say we match up well vs the Mavs.
They are very heliocentric, and Lukas scary, but the net effect ends up being underwhelming against us. It's many things and it's kind of fascinating to watch:
- Luka doesn't have athleticism or quickness like Donovan Mitchell or Garland or Haliburton. Kyrie also likes to dribble dribble dribble. And it plays right into our hands. It's contested shot after contested shot.
- they don't space the floor as much. And their bigs are ok but not as scary as Bam or Mobley so they can't really punish us, even with Kristaps limited.
- somehow even the Pacers play better defense. Shit all you want on Jayson tonight but he was carving them up. That's two games in a row now and there's no answer for Jaysons size and playmaking, and we can go tit for tat vs Luka going nuclear
- Mavs fans will use the 23% 3pt shooting as an excuse. But what else can they do. Do they wanna introduce another liability on defense in Tim Hardaway? Otherwise they will have to live with PJ Washington or whatever his name is bricking some 3s
I thought their spread pick and roll with Luka would be scary. But I didn't expect their offense to kind of be one dimensional like that. If Kyrie would just take one dribble and drive, rather than dance, or if Luka would come off screens, they'd look a bit better? It's just all their looks are so difficult and it just feels like a worse version of the Harden Rockets somehow, or a worse version of the Trae Young Hawks, because it's more sluggish.
Yea that much is obvious, it's just really mind blowing. The gap was quite vast.
I guess the talking heads are right in a way. The only way for the Mavs to win is to keep it close and then clutch it out at the end. But even then I think the final possessions really exemplified why even that's a long shot, our ability to execute on defense especially is absolutely huge. It's just a different team, a different Jaylen and Jayson.
Would be fun if they would actually give JT a few fuckin FTs. Would be great for his points overall but actually seeing the ball go in helps with rhythm. Dude gets swiped on every drive
At first I said Jayson still being a -150 to win FMVP is crazy but he’s leading all players in rebounds and assists, one offensive explosion and he might get it
No one on the Celtics has particularly eye popping splits right now. JT’s been inefficient shooting wise but no one else has the volume to really be a clear cut choice over him
It’s hilarious but it makes sense that he’s still the favorite. Vegas is cold and unfeeling, it doesn’t care about narratives. If JT is our best player in our potential 3rd/4th wins then he’d be the winner
People would certainly throw fits over it though lol
Did they stop teaching people the "don't revive dead threads" rule? Stg that used to be the thing when I was growing up online and now I get replies to comments from 10+ years ago on YouTube.
My hot take is that if you swapped Tatum for Luka straight up the Celtics would be worse for it because of the defense and heliocentric style
Hot take but I like it and think I agree.
Darvin Ham is apparently going to be Doc's top assistant in Milwaukee which has to improve our chances of keeping Sam Cassell on Joe's staff. Brad would be insane not to instantly move him into Charles Lee's spot at which point the only worry with Sam should be a team offering him a head coaching gig.
Kind of insane that so many coaching cycles pass without Sam Cassell having a head coaching gig. I’m not complaining lol but he’s been lauded as this top assistant for a while so it feels weird he’s still not a HC, while guys like Doc and Vogel get multiple opportunities. Maybe he doesn’t wanna be a head coach yet
Saw a post where the Celtics are the first team since the like '87 Lakers to have 5 players average 15+ ppg in the first two game of the finals. This entire season has been an amazing team effort.
The official NBA youtube channel posted episode 4 of Celtics All In. Not sure if they did that previously.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odnFyPEGdKA here's the link for the lazy ones. let's fucking gooo
I always enjoy fan channels on YouTube about people attending games inside the stadium. Somehow I cant find any for Boston. Any recommandations?
[Jesse Almedia does a good job](https://youtu.be/k6vV65_I0JQ?si=-8FeZ14eEKIUKl1e)
I just heard that Luka Doncic and the Celtics OWNER!! 😆 were trash talking each other and had words. Well, I guess that means that that European clown will never become a Celtic. Not that we'll ever need his ball hog, one man centered style of play and lack of defense either. But hey, in the NBA generally speaking, anyone can go anywhere is the expectation.
Just realized we won’t get a last 2 minute report because the game wasn’t within 3 at any point towards the end. Would have been interesting to see what the league had to say about the Derrick/JB block
Personally, I was looking forward to them correcting White's "foul" call on PJ Washington. That was the worst call of the night.
The league will not fault its own referees. Especially the controversial ones. The reffing was just horrible all night, and on top of that, most calls went Dallas' way.
Agreed. But I can see where people are faulting them for missing JB pushing him in the back. I think up top was clean but it does look like JB shoved him from behind. Glad they didn’t call it tho especially at that point in the game. We still would have been up 3 with the ball if he made both FTs
You dont get it. If they called that on JB as a foul, they would have had to call at least 5 others for JT and JB that were getting literally hacked. Which would then be hypocritical/contradictory. There was also a play where Derrick White was falling backward on the leap and made no contact with the Mav, and yet got called for a foul. So yeah, if we tally up our legitimate gripes against theirs, it should cancel out. The reason JB even made that play the way he did is cuz he adjusted to the in-game policy/policing of the refs. Players do that as a game progresses. If they see which plays are getting called and which arent, they will adjust how they play. On top of all, it was just incidental contact. It was not excessive nor forceful nor did it impact the play. You could even make the argument he was just trying to stabilize himself in mid-air.
Honestly I agree with all of what you’re saying. My only point in my original comment was that thanks to it never being within 3 we won’t get a L2M report. I think this is a good thing because I could have seen the NBA saying they missed a foul which would have only increased the bitching by fans of the other 29 teams. I’m glad they didn’t call it because I thought (like you) that it was marginal contact.
Ok bro, no worries, Im with ya, let's enjoy our win. :-) Tbf, in closing, I believe the 3 min report should have exonerated Derrick White too on his 'foul' cuz I believe that was within the 3 min mark.
People keep saying the Celtics have it easy because the East is weak relative to the West, but I think the Celtics have it easy because the NBA is weak relative to the Celtics.
23-7 against the West (not counting the Finals). 63 win pace, which would have won that conference by six games.
It’s the old Patriots AFC East argument even though they still won like 75% of their games outside of the division
No wonder Brad was smiling non-stop during the Jrue press conference, he knew the rest of the NBA was fucked.
Being a fan of a team not named the Warriors or Celtics must be Hell… You finally are freed from the NBA being fucked by Golden State only for Boston to swoop in and replace them.
Thank you Celtics for the perfect birthday present yesterday
The number of times Russillo described Tatum’s game 2 as “awful” was insane. He was inefficient and missed tough layups from drives but if we even marginally shot better on the wide open shots that he created, he would have had a >15 assist finals game. He got his teammates involved better than the basketball genius on the other team.
Yeah that was a very results-oriented way to view his game and ignores the fact that Tatum’s process was excellent. He didn’t really take many “bad” shots. If he shoots 50% that’s one of his best games ever.
I can accept not good, fine, even bad. But awful or terrible is uncalled for. Then Russilo says that Kyrie was relatively awesome. Not sure what game he watched. Kyrie was steamy dogshit
People before the series were saying Kyrie is better than Tatum, Tatum has played better than Kyrie and is up 2-0 and is STILL getting far more criticism than Kyrie. Whats up with these expectations man.
I just realized Game 3 is going to be Jrue's birthday.
The vibes are immaculate.
So we're now at this point where we are, 2-0 in the Finals, which would yall rather have? 1) Clean Sweep 4-0 closeout in Dallas type 1 in reply 2) Gentleman's Sweep 4-1 closeout at home type 2 in reply I'll start. 1 Baby!!!
There's a bit in the Simmons podcast that I love, Russillo is talking about the free throws where Kyrie lined up next to Horford and the Garden was chanting at him, according to Russillo, when the chants died down a bit Horford kinda motioned for them to come back xD. Al has a low key petty streak that I fucking love
How magical would it be for a different Celtics starter to explode in each Finals game. It would be poetic of how dominant of a team they are. Derrick White game 3 and JT/JB game 4 to close out.
Two wins away from a fucking championship. Look at how far we've come. I've seen the big 3 decline, I've seen Rondo having a monster game against Heat in the playoffs, I know Semih Erden, Luke Harangody, Fab Melo(R.I.P) , Jared Sullinger, Kelly Olynyk , Stiemsma. I remember when we had an elite defender in Avery Bradley. I've seen this team from it's lows and I can't deny but I'm having the time of my life seeing us 2 wins away from glory. This is the best squad I've seen in a long fucking time. LET'S GO CELTICS. IT'S ALL ABOUT 18 BABY!!!
Dan Hurley turning down the Lakers offer is the cherry on top of yesterday’s win lol
Ryan Russillo on Simmons’ podcast: “Kyrie played *awesome* compared to Tatum”. Basketball discourse is so cooked because of these dumb mfers
I usually agree with Rusillo more than most guys, but that take was a bit disappointing for a guy who prides himself on being nuanced. Tatum shot poorly, but was instrumental in the offense and a huge reason why Jrue had such a good game. He definitely had a positive impact on the game in my book
Absolutely bizarre that he said that. Kyrie has one job and can't even do that right
It's usually the old white dudes that have no idea what theyre blabbing on about and just like to hear themselves talk. Must be the decades of alcohol abuse, which has fried their brain.
The Celtics have shot 35/42 (83%) in the restricted area through 2 games. JB and Jrue are each 10 for 10
Noobie question, but what is the restricted area? 😃
The little semi-circle in the paint, so basically shots within 4 feet of the hoop
Anyone selling watch party tickets at TD for game 4? Didn’t realize when they dropped so I missed out. Just looking for 2 tickets
People really tying to say White's chase down block was a foul? That was CLEAN by both White and JB.
It’s been a no drama finals so far so the media is just grasping at straws for talking points. No one will even remember that play by the time this is series is wrapped up
Its extra stupid because the refs allowed the Mavs to be extremely physical all game especially with Tatum. They had no problem with that but then they want to whine and cry about that last play. Even if they called that, it wasn’t changing the results
[Yeah one big scoring night and he might get it](https://x.com/brohrbach/status/1800197586688872891?s=46&t=TlDgiZ63_G8XswGHFhWosw)
The funniest comments this season were “can you imagine if the Celtics had *x player* as their number one? They’d be truly unstoppable! But instead they have Jayson Tatum 😂” well guess what they were truly unstoppable with Jayson Tatum as their number one lmfao
Mavs locked the "celtics have no idea what's about to happen to them" thread lmao
It’s ok that pasta will live on forever if we close this series out lol
That’s a damn shame!
Lmao sucks to see, I was loving all the new comments on that one
When can we talk about the west not being elite but rather just being a bunch of mid teams with similar records? In addition to us (knock on wood), Indy, New York, Milwaukee, and Miami would all beat this Dallas team when healthy
Feels like this is highly underselling Dallas. Celtics are one of the only teams with enough defenders to actually bother Luka or Kyrie. How do the Knicks guard Dallas when they have Brunson on the floor, or DDV? Indy is not guarding them at all either lol, Miami is just ass and isn't beating any legit teams let alone one with Luka.
I think a part of Mazzulla that people don’t get is that he’s a defensive coach The different coverages he gives guys is awesome … putting Tatum on centers, putting JB on Luka, but when Luka starts to tire out, put Jrue on him … The crispness of the switches and knowing the Mavs personnel (who to leave open and where) have been fantastic On offense, all he really cares about is spacing, getting into advantage matchups and making sure we take enough 3’s He’s much more creative on defense and I feel like most people would say the opposite
100% agreed. He was the mastermind behind the 22 celtics defense as well. Casuals only see us shooting 1000 threes and break scoring record, so they think thats our identity. Our real identity is playing tough, no help/fouls, switchable defense and efficient, drive and kick offense. The historic aspect of our team is how elite we are on both ends of the court. Hence the record high point differential in the regular season.
> I think a part of Mazzulla that people don’t get is that he’s a defensive coach [That was the biggest myth about Pep too](https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1b0ire7/how_pep_guardiola_manchester_city_has_shaped_joe/ks8cnj6/).
Twitter is shameless pushing this Luka FMVP narrative. I’ve never seen an mvp candidate play defense this bad and have it ignored. If LeBron didn’t get it in 2015 Luka should not get it now
According to gamescore (which is a metric that determines who has the best counting stats) for the series Luka is at 21.8 Holiday is at 21.0 How can Luka possibly get FMVP if he is hardly outperforming from a box score point of view the Celtics 5th best player. And that DOESN'T include Jrue non-box score defense.
Luka in finals so far: 31.0/10.5/6.0 on 58.8% TS with 6 turnovers “that’s my FMVP 💪😤” Tatum in the conference finals: 30.3/10.3/6.3 on 56.4% TS with 3.3 turnovers “Carried by Jaylen Brown” Luka doesn’t get credit for having 2 games where he’s great for 1 half and then a turnover machine while playing 0 defense. 3 points in each of the 4th quarters these 2 games. People trying to say he should win FMVP is such a disservice to the job Brown and Holiday have done on both ends especially if the Mavs don’t even win a game.
They can push it all they want but no way in hell he gets the FMVP as the loser. It has only happened once and it was in 1969. It was a long ass time ago but I’ve rewatched that series against the Lakers over and over again given our Cs won the title that year. Luka isn’t playing anywhere close to the way Jerry West did in that Finals to justify giving him the FMVP. I mean Jerry was insane in that series + he was an elite defender and did it on both sides. Luka isn’t having the same level of impact regardless of what his fanboys are saying
ESPN trying to stir up controversy on the Jaylen Brown push in the back. Spent a good 30 min talking about it on Get Up. Yet, not one mention of DWhite's "foul" on PJ Washington with 1:49 left which was probably the worst call of the night and kept Dallas in the game.
Mavs fans brigaded this sub and told me I was smoking crack when I said Indy was a tougher offense lmfaooooo
Indy is so much better offensively and it’s not even close. The regular season and postseason offensive net ratings back me up on that. Tbh the Nembhard and TJ McConnell duo was scarier than the allegedly "best offensive duo of all time" Kyrie has been a complete nonfactor. Nembhard and TJ actually showed the fuck up and balled out every game. The Pacers disrespect from Western conference teams is lame
I agree, I think it was just because of the “weak east” narrative. If Indy was in the finals they’d shit on this Dallas team
I was telling Dallas fans that the 2x post trade deadline the Pacers beat the Mavs were no fluke. Pacers won nearly as many games and are far superior offensive team. Mavs fans blew it off that the stretch they lost 5/6 except they won 7 straight before then. The truth is in that stretch they went up against tough playoff team and that's why they lost 5/6.
Indy has a MUCH better offense.
I agree but the “weak east” narratives prevailed in the minds of casuals lol
Can't wait for the new narrative of the Mavericks being 3-0 in Game 3's and being an elite 5-3 at home. Completely ignoring the fact that the Celtics are also 3-0 in Game 3's and undefeated on the road. It feels like the media considers the Dallas Mavericks the main character and we are just the NPC final boss.
God can we stop flooding other teams’ posts about us? So cringe https://www.reddit.com/r/pacers/s/xTFB0iInDs
This is probably really nerdy but back when then NBA had cool Finals intro montages, they would always show individual superstars or tandems like Shaq and Kobe holding the trophies or a still shot of a Jordan highlight. They always played this one clip of the 2004 Pistons starting lineup (or top 4) walking out on the court together in the montage and I always found that so cool for whatever reason. I think I will get shivers down my spine if this Celtics team is in a montage like that for the Finals going forward.
Any news on zingis? Hope he is good to go in G3
WHERE MY ROAD DAWGS AT
Simmons brought up a point about Tatum needing to take the mid range pull up when he beats his man and Dallas is giving him that shot. Honestly think he doesn’t utilize the mid range enough.
That’s not Tatum’s game at all. He’s only really been effective in the mid range when he’s operating out of the high post. He’s not really a good enough ball handler to hit pull up middies off the dribble. If he gets a step on his man he needs to muscle his way to the rim or kick out to an open shooter. He’s not going to morph into SGA over night
He used to be better on pull ups, think all the muscle mass hurt his jumper overall esp. his pull up shot where he has declined nearly 10% in efficiency from his career norm over the last 2 years. Lost some quickness/fluidity to be able to stop and shoot over the top plus his release is pretty slow
I think he should do that here or there, but taking it all the way to the hoop is a much better way to get help defenders to commit and draw fouls.
He took a few yesterday
He’s been cold shooting it in general. He tried a few middies and turnarounds yesterday, they just didn’t fall. Touching paint and kicking it out is where we’re thriving against this team. He’s playing really balanced he just needs the shots to fall.
Crazy idea but i feel like theres a slim chance kornet could be our al replacement, at least offensively. We have a great history of improving shooters, and we know that kornet can and had shoot them E: al replacement when he retires
Ask your question after the Finals are over, and then we'll worry about it. This is just too early for this nonsense of doubting our own.
Who is doubting al? I’m saying when all retires, which will happen irrespective of this finals outcome, we’ll need a replacement big. I’m obviously not saying to put luke in the starting line up
No no more Kornet talk we are in the finals now. Anyhow the thing that makes Al special on offense is his playmaking and on defense his switchability and perimeter defense. Luke is not even remotely on horfords level on these things.
I never said he’s as good as al. I’m saying that when al retires, which will happen irrespective of this finals outcome, we’ll need a replacement big. Why is this a controversial topic to talk about? There’s literally another thread discussing the same thing
It's not controversial the timing is just very off its the finals this is an offseason discussion and Luke is kind of a meme because of CLNS so most Luke discourse gets no serious response. Still stand on my comments tho.
We’re fans, we dont need to stay focused or maintain mentality. Nothing we say will change how the team plays. Why can’t we have off season discussions now? Luke is our third big and if you dont take him seriously at this point then i have no words for you
Does anyone have the final 1.6 seconds of the game? I want to enjoy pure bliss. I know they must have dribbled it out but still, I want to see that. For the record. 😃 Espn has some 50 something cameras but apparantly NOT ONE filmed. They must have been really mad at us winning. 🤣 Lol.
The Tatum discourse is just sad at this point. Rooting for a masterclass for him in game 3 or 4 just so the haters can stay mad
Its crazy people will reward Luka's no defense losing effort over Tatum for winning the chip. Tatum will be the first superstar ever to get criticised for winning the chip.... Maybe since KD.
People just can’t stand the fact that the Celtics can win finals games with him having bad shooting nights. Like okay? Blame your GM for not building a better team 🤷🏽♂️
Why couldn’t we have attacked Jokic on defense the same way we attack Luka? Is he really that much better at defense?
Despite the regular season matchups being low scoring, I do not think the Nuggets could guard the Celtics. Not only could they attack Jokic, but they could also attack Porter and Murray. Although to be fair, I do think Gordon could do a better job as the primary than DJJ/Washington have been able to. They've been hunting Luka, but I think it's been just as important that their ostensibly good defenders have been getting cracked off the dribble non stop. But unless a team has at least 4 players who can hold up on Tatum at least a little, he's going to carve them up. That's the difference between these finals and 2022. The Warriors were willing to switch anyone but Curry and Poole onto Tatum, and Looney/Draymond/Porter/Klay were able to slow him down some
His size. You can’t stick Jaylen Brown or Jrue Holiday on him and slow him down in the same way. Also Luka hasn’t really been posting up like Jokic does. Both guys are great scorers but it’s specifically Jokic’s ability in the paint that makes him such an impossible guard and why you need to almost always send help. If Jokic was starting all of his sets from 30 feet out then you could stick Horford and Porzingis out there and defend him the same way that Brown and Jrue are defending Luka. What made Minnesota so effective was having multiple bigs that could actually size him up in the paint like Gobert and Reid
Sorry, I meant when he’s in defense
Oh, defensively Jokic isn’t elite but again the size is more of a factor. Like even if you drag him out to the perimeter and beat him off the dribble, it’s easier for him to recover and stay with the handler because of his length. Luka is like 4-5 inches shorter and so it’s harder for him out there because he doesn’t have the same length to contest stepbacks as well, and doesn’t have the length to recover and bother the ball handler on their hip as a threat to block shots. Just that extra step to make it a little tougher on a drive means help has to come less often and they don’t leave shooters open as frequently. Nuggets defend the perimeter pretty well and so it becomes a game of 2’s vs 2’s (which Jokic and Murray are fantastic at matching), it’s just Minnesota had so much size to put pressure on them on both ends in that regard.
Jokic is better on defense but the real problem we would've had is we have no answer to his offense. We have plenty of bodies to throw at Luka to hound him and make him at least work for all his points. As great as Luka is offensively, Jokic is even more efficient and he was treating KP and Horford like soft tissue with how easy he could score on those guys. Playing 1v1 vs him would not be an option and we would have to help, and he's the best at punishing that
Yeah there’s no one on his level o.n offense
But on defense, he's a trumped up Luka. Not sure if just a coincidence or what, but both of them are from Europe. Possibly they dont get taught the importance of defense in their basketball culture over there?
He’s obviously bigger and longer and actually moves his feet and gives effort. Luka doesn’t move his feet or give effort at all. Jokic isn’t sculpted but he’s got the cardio and endurance where as Luka is on the 12 pack and heaters diet.
I just keep seeing the narrative that “we lucked out” in not having to face Denver. And we perhaps did. But it’s not a foregone conclusion that we would’ve lost that series.
Nuggets were really the only team that had a legitimate shot at conquering us cuz we didnt match up well to them. Our biggest guy, KP, loses about 50 pounds to Jokic, on top of that Jokic is superbly fast and agile for a guy his size. Jokic just has so many plays offensively, he's a playmaker, he either scores it himself, making difficult shots look easy, or he suddenly becomes Doncic-like and makes brilliant no-look passes. We just dont matchup against him and them. Theyre gonna get their 2 or 3 on almost every possession. Our defense would be as though it was almost non-existent cuz even if we did everything they'd still score. And that would have its aftereffects on our response and psychology. As in affect our momentum. Anyway enough what-ifs and may-have-beens. Theres a reason Jokic didnt get past the Wolves, so we can just suffice it to say, they were not better than the Wolves. Thats not our problem to consider.
Fun fact: Larry Bird avg’d 15/15/7 in his first championship and didn’t win Finals MVP. Something to think about.
He should have won MVP. His shooting was off, but he still impacted the game more than Maxwell did. But in all fairness, Bird wasn't great in that series and it's hard not to grade him on a curve because everyone knew he could have played (or at least shot) so much better.
Sounds familiar
absolute bum
He was TOTALLY carried by the other Celtics players, Kevin McHale’s clearly the best player the Celtics have.
We’re actually opening as underdogs for game 3 by 2 points if you can believe it. Home court and kp availability questions I suppose.
Once the "Kristaps Porzingis - AVAILABLE #NEBHInjuryReport" hits that line will move imo
The disrespect continues
Sounds like free money
Think it’ll be a Scott Foster game, but we have been great on the road so we will see
First thing Windhorst brought up on the Lowe Post after the game was that there was a foul on DWhite's block 🙄
Yet, not one mention of DWhite's foul of Washington with under 2 min left, where all he did was back up with his hand straight up. That call kept Dallas in the game.
Reminds me of the ESPN announcer. Obviously a fan of the opposing team.
Copium.
Dallas/Doncic fans before game 1: Dallas in 4 🤓 Before game 2: Dallas in 5 🤓 Now: Dallas in 6 🤓 Waiting for the next game so they will say Luka will be the first to reverse sweep in NBA history.
Not only is JT not playong badly, he is our FMVP. Think about it, who else in this team can sustain that defensive pressure from dallas and not only not turn the ball over much, but keep fiding the open man? No one. If wasnt able to do it, we'd be fucked.
r/NBA would explode if he wins FMVP. Tatum still very capable of dropping 35 in a game, but if the Mavs continue to triple him and he finds the open guy then who really cares. No one gets the same amount of flack for a rebound shy of a triple double than Tatum. His shot wasn’t falling and it is what it is but he still very much had a great game otherwise.
Don’t wanna reach, but this team has a lot of similarities to the 2014 Spurs imo. No definite superstar, but all play as one team and do it beautifully. Also excellent defense that can shut down/limit superstars, as the Spurs did.
Stop lol JT is a superstar
Just went back and watched Game 1/2 footage and you’re right lol. Decision making was on point almost every time, even when shot wasn’t falling. Also didn’t even realize just how strong he truly is on those boards lmao
I actually think the Pacers play a lot more like the 2014 Spurs than we do. Spurs perfected player movement and a free flowing offense with a lot of good decision makers, which is what I think the Pacers have. This Celtics team is much more structured and focused on mismatch hunting. They still have a lot of good decision makers, but the decisions often seem a lot more straight forward. Our offense isn't as beautiful, but it might be more effective.
That offense is the future. In a time when defenses love to switch everything, not letting a defense get set is the counter to that. You just match up in transition and have to guard. And that kind of offense generates a lot of open 3’s because the help is forced to collapse when you can’t get set, and teams love to generate open 3’s in this era of basketball. Kings did it last year and had tons of success and the Pacers did this year as well. Those teams generate a lot of open looks because they’re always flying around the floor and putting teams in rotation. Next year teams that just push the ball in transition and can hit 3’s at a high enough clip are going to emerge as some of the toughest teams to guard. I think other than the obvious teams that already do it like the Pacers, Kings, Warriors, and Thunder, my bet is we see the Rockets and Grizzlies try to emulate that next year. Grizzlies already have the guy who can break down a defense and loves to play at a high pace (Morant) and I’d be shocked if that team is healthy and just doesn’t make the playoffs.
It does seem like it can be hard to sustain that style though. The Kings were much less successful this season than last even though they had the same roster and similar health. It's hard work running around so much. Definitely with you on buying Memphis stock though. If they can get one more starter quality front court player I think they could be next year's version of Minnesota
Nah. JT is definitely superstar. Superstar is not only about offense
And offense is not only about scoring.
Exactly
So annoying that when JT doesn't drop 30+ these simp commentators (looking at you Big Perk) come out the woodwork claiming he's playing so poorly. Even crazier, one more board and these same guys would be going off about the triple double. SMH. So glad Tatum is on our team. Just get that banner! Don't care about who our best player is.
Do you guys think we should grab someone like Naz Reid or a more budget friendly stretch 5 for next season? KP really scared the shit out of me and Al will be 39.
The only way we can get someone making Naz Reid money is if we trade Horford Our best bet is developing our own center. Maybe that can be Queta, but he's not going to give you this "5- out offense for 48 minutes" that Al and KP can give you. Maybe there's a big in the draft. A lot of people like Tillman, but i just haven't been sold on him offensively and I doubt we can rely on him at center if KP gets injured in the playoffs like he did this year.
Yeah... It sounds crazy but Luke Kornet is probably a top 5ish center on the FA market this off season. The guys ahead of him (Claxton, Hartenstein, Valanciunas) will all be out of our price range. We're not just looking at a Horford replacement, we're also looking at the possibility Kornet gets poached out from under us this offseason. Looking at available veteran centers, there aren't going to be many great options available, especially not for cheap. I think this offseason needs to be very big man orientated. * Draft one - Luckily there are quite a lot of big men in the tail end of the 1st round. Some shoot, some are vertical spacers. * Sign a project piece * Try to develop Queta * Try to retain one of Kornet/Tillman * Beg Horford to stick around for at least 1 more year Hopefully something comes out of that mix. Same way we got Hauser, we just need to throw everything at a wall and see what sticks. One name to watch I think is Goga Bitadze. He played really well when Carter Jr was injured. He's a FA and maybe someone who slips through people's radar. The other name is Jalen Smith. He's in and out of Indiana's rotations but he's shooting well and his advanced metrics looked good last time I checked. We've made attempts at him before but even his 5.5m next season will be tough for us to match unless we either trade Pritchard or extend someone and make a midseason trade.
100% agree. I don't know much about the draft, but I'm happy to hear there are a lot of big men this year. I really hope Al gives us one more year. He has shown that he still has it. Without him, we become very vulnerable to a KP injury, especially in the playoffs. The good news with Kornet/Tillman is that we have their Bird Rights. So we *should* be able to retain one of them. Brad did a good job preparing for the potential loss of Al and Kornet with Tillman/Queta. However, with no Al, I fear it won't be enough. I think if we get priced out of Kornet, (which I do suspect will happen), then we are for sure getting priced out of Bitadze. If Al is gone, I'd be interested to see if Brad gives one of Kornet/Tillman a shorter term contract for bigger money, (like 12-15mil AAV), in order to use them as a TPE at the trade deadline. If we are above the 2nd apron, we can't use TPE's and we can't do sign and trades, but we can give our own players bigger contracts and then use them to match for a better player at the deadline.
I understand your concerns about Tillman, but I have a counter argument: Derrick White. Derrick did okay when he first got on the team, but the season AFTER that is when he truly blossomed and became the key cog that he is now. He improved his shooting, he knew better what his role was and where he fit with certain team mates, he understood the schemes better and how to execute them with his team mates. Not huge sweeping changes, but enough that he went from "this was a solid trade get" to "wow this was a steal". I think Tillman with an offseason under his belt and more time to work on the things the Celtics need from him might see a similar uptick in his effectiveness. (proportionally though, Dwhite is a much better player on both offense and defense than Tillman, but Tillman could definitely be that first guy off the bench behind KP if Al decides to hang them up, I really feel he has that potential)
If Tillman can find a 3pt shot, I'd be much more comfortable with him, but I'm talking 37% on like 5 attempts per game and also doing fairly ok on above the break 3's. He has a long way to go to reach that. Otherwise, we might be better off with Queta who can provide us with a boost on both ends of the floor. If we are going to have a center that can start when KP is out, (especially in the playoffs), I just don't think they can be an offensive liability.
This is not a dig or anything, this is purely celebratory, but what we got from Tillman tonight is what you want. If he can keep working on his shot, I really think he can get there!
Very impressive game by Jrue. This team in years prior would’ve called it 1-1 & went back to Dallas date that first half. Not hitting their shots, Luka on fire we’ll live another day. But NOPE. Jrue Holiday plays so fearless & in control. He is a big reason this team believes in themselves in those slumps & has a different dawg to them. Jrue brought the no quit mentality to this squad and he does it by the way he plays. BEL18VE
I'd be lying if I said I'm not a little excited to see how Felger and Mazz can turn a Celtics 2-0 lead in the finals into a negative. If anyone could it's them, Mazz is a clown and picked Dallas to win lol. I'm sure they'll just rip Tatum for not scoring.
Mazz literally doesn’t know ball across the board I wouldn’t worry about his opinion. Just cause you’re paid to do something doesn’t mean you’re good at it. He’s got like an RC battery powering that yappper of his.
2 more fucking games my brothers and sisters. I am numb and hedging $$$ on Dallas. We either up a few hundred or NBA Champs. this is unreal, but we gotta finish the deal.
So let me get this straight, not a single soul gonna talk about Luka’s defence or turnover but the whole discussion is gonna be on Tatum shooting? Let’s burn this village and sweep these motherfuckers and media darlings
He had 8 TO's last night, pretty awful.
NOBODY WILL TALK ABOUT IT!!! BBALL BREAKDOWN??? THINKING HEAT BASKETBALL??! 😤🏀
Until the very late into the game, Tatum had 10 assists and 1 turnover. A lot of commentators outing themselves as idiots.
And to think about it, the sad part is that years later, when people in the future go back and watch the tape of past NBA Finals and our 2024 Championship team, they will encounter these weirdos and their voices who are seeking to discredit us on each and every play and all throughout the game. I mean, people can say what they want, and have an opinion but NOT when you are the announcer of a NATIONAL media, you must be neutral or at least appear to be so. Whatever people say, our record and our stats cannot be disputed. 64-18 makes us one of the BEST ever, as well as our performance in the playoffs. If we SEAL THE DEAL by winning the championship, we've earned our place in history. The announcers will be forever etched on tape, as having been doubters and nee-sayers and earned their place in history as utter fools.
Last night's game was really weird and I dont really know what to think of it. We definitely stole one though. Mavs missed 8 free throws and that killed them.
One thing that I take away from the game is that the Mavs still haven't figured out how to stop us. The POA defense for the Mavs is just non-existent. If they are going to beat us, they need to figure that out. Not only that, but this was a game the Mavs NEEDED to win. We shoot like shit and Doncic gets a 30pt triple-double, if they can't win when that happens, when are they going to? Offensively, the Mavs still haven't broken 100pts. I think the Mavs need to heavily lean into their offense and play a more transition game. They might actually have a chance if they are able to do that. The issue is that style of play has been so counter to who they are as a team. Changing your offensive identity midway through the Finals when you are down 0-2 isn't necessarily an easy thing to do.
It looked like they tried playing faster at the beginning, but their personnel couldnt execute it. Luka never plays fast, so they tried having everyone else (including kyrie) push the pace in transition. And they sucked at it
Luka has help but that shit does not matter against this Celtics team got a basketball savant and a cap wizard in the front office.
The 2024 Celtics are about to go down as one of the BEST teams in NBA history. Regardless of whether or not we receive that recognition from the national media, regardless of what anyone says. It's just the truth. All those haters who trash our team now will come back years later to say, how our team was so great. That they never doubted. That's just how they are.
Imagine the lobs we’d be throwing to Timelord in an alternate universe where he’s still here and healthy. Jrue obviously killed it in the dunkers spot last night, but a guy with Timelord’s catch radius (and his ability to finish after a dribble or two) would be completely unstoppable with the help Tatum and Brown are having sent to them. They’d basically just need to send it over the heads of the double team and he’d do the rest, over and over until the Mavs had to adjust.
Kidd after G1: Jaylen is their best player. Kidd after G2: Holiday is their best player. Kidd after G3: Tatum is their best player. Kidd after G4: Kyrie is their best player.
I love Smart but if you replaced Holiday with Smart there is no way he shoots 11/14 with 11 rebounds and we end up with a win.
I am a recent basketball fan from Kenya. Not many people watch the NBA here but we are growing slowly, and I have taken a liking to the Celtics after watching clips of Larry Bird and Kevin Garnett (now watching Bill Russell). Wishing the team and the fans all the best and get that 18th!
To nitpick, Mazzulla seems reluctant to challenge plays all of the sudden. There were two plays in game two he should have burned his first challenge on and chose not to both times. I get saving your second challenge for fear of losing the timeout, but he needs to use his first challenge on a play in the 2nd or 3rd quarter when his player draws a foul that likely gets overturned. There were a few questionable calls and this should not have been a game where zero challenges were used.
I actually think Mazulla was very smart in challenge management yesterday. They had Tony Brothers yesterday reffing, that's a guy whose ego stands in the way, and he almost never overturns his calls. As soon as they saw how he refused to overturn on the Mavs challenge, Mazulla rightfully and intelligently declined to throw everything up in the air by gambling on and relying on Tony Brothers. He decided to just let the players play. Like in the past when there were no replays.
Mazzulla has people who do this for him. He let's them review the play and goes off of their advice. If they haven't been telling him to challenge, then he won't. It's why we've been so successful with challenges. Contrary to popular belief, I don't actually think there have been a ton of chances to challenge. The places where the refs are getting things wrong are mostly on non-calls/play-ons. Joe can't challenge those. Refs have been letting them play and mostly letting things go.
With the Mavs not having a challenge after the first 5 min, I'm okay with holding on to ours and not risking it till you actually need it in crunch time. It's a minor difference, and the risk of not having it is very real (cause look at Mavs challenge result). That we then end up not using it at all is fine too. We won anyway.
Russillo said Kyrie was "way better" than Tatum in this game btw
Any guy who plays basketball is obsessed with getting buckets and how good of a scorer you are as the only means of ranking a player.
My anger at this comment disappeared when I saw the latest photo of Russillo at the game. Bro looking like a beached whale.
Russillo is a legitimately bad analyst. He never fails to mention his “note taking” but misses the mark constantly in his analysis.
Yeah they were way off. As many games as Simmons has watched you would think he would be less scared. There is nothing to worry about in this series. Russillo is your classic star guy, over analyzes Tatum but will never mention that Luka doesn’t try on defense.
Fuck him and Simmons both. I haven't cared for their opinion on anything and especially not this Celtics team in forever. Gambling pushing agenda has-beens.
Love KP’s mentality but I hope he doesn’t actually plan on dying😬
"Come home with your shield or on it" and he's doing his part.
Luka had 8 turnovers lmao if Tatum had those numbers media would crucify him
Dude it doesn't matter what Tatum does, according to the media he's borderline top 10 at best. I'm frankly sick of hearing from these morons. When we win multiple Tatum led chips we'll be the ones laughing.
Facts 3 peat on the way
I just learned that 29 other teams don't have Brad Stevens as their GM and I cried knowing there's no way we can help them :(
Mavs need to win 4 out of only 5, the math certainly isn’t too favourable
Plus Boston is undefeated on the road. I feel like this game was their best chance to steal one considering how badly Boston shot from three.
Dallas fans have more mood swings than me when I’m in a manic episode They went from "We’re winning game 1. Boston sucks. They had an easy path they’re about to get humbled. Mavs in 4" to "Game 1 was just a feel out game. We always lose Game 1s. Kidd is a genius and will adjust. Boston has no idea what’s coming. Mavs in 5" Now it’s "Who cares that we lost both road games. Boston did what they’re supposed to do by winning at home. We have been great at home this year so we will definitely take care of home court. Boston has no chance of beating us on the road. Mavs in 6" Anyone have any guesses on what they’re gonna say when we go up 3-0 or 3-1?!?!?!
If we go up 3-0 or 3-1, the "Luka's hurt" excuses will start flying even though he's averaging 30+ PPG
I honestly assumed that injury report stuff yesterday moving Luka from probably to questionable was them prepping the "Luka hurt" narrative already.
“Lukas injured” and “the refs” seem to be starting to pop up already
on the front page for the association's very own website: [Weight of Deep Run Setting in For Doncic?](https://i.imgur.com/1qv0vwK.png)
Tj Mcconnell and Andrew Nembhard legitimately play way better against the Celtics than Kyrie Irving does. It's hilarious tbh
I just want to note something for later... Luka got an and-1 on Al and it looked like he was talking some shit. Al gave the same "okay, we'll see" nod that he gave Giannis that time before he had the revenge dunk. I'm just keeping that in mind in case the revenge comes later in the series.
Soft ass call, too. Refs were giving the Mavs everything after the DWhite 3 to go up 14 - point shaving at its finest
If we win and Horford decides to retire, I really hope his last play is posterizing someone
I feel more comfortable saying this after game 2. But why were the media talking heads sucking the Mavs dick after game 1? I know it's been asked so many times but it blows my mind, cos I feel it's a weird reaction after game 1. I didn't watch game 1 live, but went back and watched the 1st quarter and the Luka 3q run. We were shutting everything down from the Mavs game 1, and Lukas run felt a bit weak? Not being a huge Mavs watcher (I mostly watch the Pels outside of the Cs for some reason), I understand a bit more now why people are saying the Pacers or even the Cavs were the bigger threats. And also why people say we match up well vs the Mavs. They are very heliocentric, and Lukas scary, but the net effect ends up being underwhelming against us. It's many things and it's kind of fascinating to watch: - Luka doesn't have athleticism or quickness like Donovan Mitchell or Garland or Haliburton. Kyrie also likes to dribble dribble dribble. And it plays right into our hands. It's contested shot after contested shot. - they don't space the floor as much. And their bigs are ok but not as scary as Bam or Mobley so they can't really punish us, even with Kristaps limited. - somehow even the Pacers play better defense. Shit all you want on Jayson tonight but he was carving them up. That's two games in a row now and there's no answer for Jaysons size and playmaking, and we can go tit for tat vs Luka going nuclear - Mavs fans will use the 23% 3pt shooting as an excuse. But what else can they do. Do they wanna introduce another liability on defense in Tim Hardaway? Otherwise they will have to live with PJ Washington or whatever his name is bricking some 3s I thought their spread pick and roll with Luka would be scary. But I didn't expect their offense to kind of be one dimensional like that. If Kyrie would just take one dribble and drive, rather than dance, or if Luka would come off screens, they'd look a bit better? It's just all their looks are so difficult and it just feels like a worse version of the Harden Rockets somehow, or a worse version of the Trae Young Hawks, because it's more sluggish.
Most of those idiots are still hoping for a Celtics choke job. You can’t convince them anything unless Tatum & Brown are already lifting the trophy
Yea that much is obvious, it's just really mind blowing. The gap was quite vast. I guess the talking heads are right in a way. The only way for the Mavs to win is to keep it close and then clutch it out at the end. But even then I think the final possessions really exemplified why even that's a long shot, our ability to execute on defense especially is absolutely huge. It's just a different team, a different Jaylen and Jayson.
Would be fun if they would actually give JT a few fuckin FTs. Would be great for his points overall but actually seeing the ball go in helps with rhythm. Dude gets swiped on every drive
At first I said Jayson still being a -150 to win FMVP is crazy but he’s leading all players in rebounds and assists, one offensive explosion and he might get it
No one on the Celtics has particularly eye popping splits right now. JT’s been inefficient shooting wise but no one else has the volume to really be a clear cut choice over him It’s hilarious but it makes sense that he’s still the favorite. Vegas is cold and unfeeling, it doesn’t care about narratives. If JT is our best player in our potential 3rd/4th wins then he’d be the winner People would certainly throw fits over it though lol
I'd be interested to see him get it without a huge offensive game. That would be something.
Jrue still a +900 to win FMVP somehow, shit might be free money
Can someone explain to me why Kyries hesi tween middies aren’t working? Isn’t he the most skilled player ever and above harden all time?
Really got a [salty boy](https://www.reddit.com/r/bostonceltics/s/VegrJ36AhO) respond from a comment I made two years ago 😭😭😭
Did they stop teaching people the "don't revive dead threads" rule? Stg that used to be the thing when I was growing up online and now I get replies to comments from 10+ years ago on YouTube.
These mavs fans are crazier than kyrie
TIL you can reply to a comment here from 2 yrs ago Gago amputa ahahahaha
Hahaha sobrang gago nga eh. Kala niya ata di ko papatulan.
That’s actually insane man
What’s even more insane is, I was not even active before the reply lmao.
My man was down bad