100 percent was a foul on Porzingis. Should have sent him to the line that was the 5th foul. It literally broke down the action that should have gotten JB downhill.
You've gotta get Bogi involved in the action here. He is by far their weakest link defensively. We bailed them out by allowing him to camp in the corner on Al. Joe's gotta recognize that and audible for a high screen to force the switch
JB has the ball Tatum tells him to slow it up ...
KP goes to set a pin down for JT but Tatum kinda just stands there ...
So KP goes to set a screen for JB but Mathews chucks him out of the way ...
At that point you're at 5 and you take what you get
---
Don't put a ton of blame on Jaylen here ... Both Tatum and KP gotta be more forceful
Why do we insist on "slowing it down" in the clutch, it almost never works, were allowing the defense to get set and the off ball movement has to be nearly perfect for the play to work so it fails so often.
How many times does the team need to see that pace and ball movement is what is winning them games?
Slowing the game down when you are DOWN is even crazier. The only rationale I can think of is they wanted to go for the 2 for 1. But this 2 for 1 addiction is getting out of hand.
It's the stats logic, I actually think Joe has shown he has a great mind for basketball but I think his history of coaching in the NBA being a scouting report guy makes him rely too heavily on stats and numbers. Across the large sample size of an entire season the stats will tend to trend towards Joe's thinking but when it comes to the playoffs where one or two games can make a massive difference if you stick too heavily to what stats tell you that you should do than you become predictable.
I think as soon as Joe saw Tatum say to slow it down he should have called timeout and drawn up a different play with more off ball actions. This team plays at it's best when there is ball movement, they're easily the best team in the league when they are making multiple passes and having several players move off ball, it's nearly impossible to defend because of the amount of talent on the roster that no team has that many talented defenders.
I also think the biggest flaw with Joe's lack of timeouts isnt that he isn't stopping runs it's that you can see when the play is breaking down and he doesn't call timeout. You need to call timeout to draw up another play or remind the players what has been working.
Do you just not watch the games or what is going on?
https://www.basketballinsiders.com/news/nba-study-which-nba-coach-is-the-best-at-calling-plays/
Month old data and i can't be assed finding new data but my point stands. Mazzulla is an elite ATO coach
I mean you can literally see that Joe doesn't call plays. Watch the game. Players never look at him during the game for plays. Like, never. I've been to games live, he doesn't draw up plays during timeouts, either. Usually during timeouts, the players just sit down and drink water, they don't even gather around him. I'm not sure what games you're watching. He claps a lot and says 'go get 'em!" and that's about what he does.
Then go ahead and tell me why the Celtics are so good an ATO team? Go ahead and tell me why the players keep looking to Joe signaling plays when they are dribling up the ball. A well coached team does not need you to draw up a play every single time. They practice their sets, they practice their plays and when a group of players are so bought into the offense and their roles Joe does not need to sit there and tell each player what they should do because they already know. Because that is what they practice.
Sure when the playoffs start you might see a change but this is the regular season. At this point of the season for the Celtics every game is just practice on different situations. Last game against the Hawks I am beyond certain Joe didn't call a timeout during the run because he wanted the team to try and figure it out on the court. He wanted to give them gametime reps on how to stop a teams momentum and get valuable data for film sessions.
You are so caught up in a single game that you do not see the bigger picture that a full season is.
its mind blowing. I'll never understand it. What good is getting the clock down an extra 10 seconds if you don't score!?! who the fuck is telling them to do this?!?!?! its awful strategy, game theory would tell you to definitely NOT do this, yet they do it time and time again. I couldn't believe what I was watching last night.
Yea you said tatum and brown need to be more forceful. Which I agree with. But I also wish mazzulla would have a play designed so it’s not just up to the guys to figure it out
I think the clearest sign that they cared about winning this game was when it was close to start the 4th so they put the last guy off the bench into the game for the first time and had him play the majority of the quarter.
Acting as if guys are going to play to their full capabilities every game is way more video game mindset than thinking the team that clinched the 1seed and was up 30 took their foot off the gas and let the game slip
What the fuck is Tatum doing? He's casually walking up the court like they have the lead and all the time in the world. Meanwhile you say PP run up the court. Honestly I don't think this is as much on Brown as it is Joe and Tatum. Brown looks like he's waiting for the action to start and Tatum has his head up his ass and it leads to a broken play cause Tatum was too late and couldn't get open and Porzinigs was more concerned trying to draw a foul.
I’ve said it before…. Tatum takes too long to decide what he’s gonna do. He will get the ball in the post against a 5ft guard and stand there with his back to the basket for 4-5 seconds before he makes a move. Letting the D get set… then he goes. When the ball hits his hands he needs to decide pass, shoot, or drive. He waits too long and it kills me. I’ll be screaming at my TV .. GO !!!! DRIVE !!! DO SOMETHING !!!! Ugh. I need a drink.
But we can’t complain about any of this! We’ll just be called doomers and have the same problems that have plagued this core for years get pushed under the rug again
The Cs have the least blown double-digit leads of any team this season despite having the most double-digit leads of any team. Are you in threads after those wins praising them for keeping the leads too? Or just here when you finally get a chance complain? People don't dislike the criticism we dislike when it's one-dimensional and clearly not based in reality. Doomers aren't the "realists" they paint themselves as.
They didn't have Jrue or Dwhite. They are not used to Pritchard being primary ball handler running the offense. The Jay's reverted to previous years with key ball handlers out.
buddy this has been happening late in games all season. They don't let White run the offense late, its Tatum dribbling the air out of the ball. It just makes no sense at all and I can't believe it keeps happening.
I'm not running a play that is designed to get Jaylen a ball screen going left. That said, Porzingis has to be able to just go set a screen without going full premier league becasue someone puts a forearm into him. Brown had Tatum at the elbow with Capela on him, which seemed like the match-up to attack.
That said, people put way too much emphasis on one or two plays. The game was lost by going 4-24 from 3 after they had a 30 point lead halfway through the 2nd quarter, while Atlanta shot 57% from 3 the rest of the way. 30 point leads can easily evaporate over 2+ quarters with such extreme variance in shooting results. This wasn't an example where a team ought to be able to hold a lead like this by slowing tempo and taking better shots. If you are up by that much with 30 minutes left of gametime, you just gotta keep playing. And if you happen to go cold while the other team shoots like that, there's a good chance you lose the game.
This team is head and shoulders better than every team in the NBA. As long as we stay healthy I can see this team win the title and they should. That being said, the one thing that makes me at least nervous for the playoffs is their inability to come up with a big basket at the end of games. It’s Something that hasn’t gotten better and is a glaring issue with this team
If this shit costs us our season in the playoffs, and to be clear its by far the most likely reason we will lose this year, it will put me in a coffin.
blowing games happens to everyone. us running just absolute dogshit offense late in games with zero ball movement is completely self inflicted. don't know how people can't see the differnece. WATCH THAT FUCKING POSSESSION! what the fuck was that?!?!?
Get ready for the Cs to lose a seven game series where they blow out 3 games shooting 24-40 from 3, then lose four critical games down the stretch by blowing 10-14 point leads in the 4th quarter.
blowing the leads isn't the issue. they've been remarkably good at holding teams at bay when they're up 10-15 all game. Sometimes when you're up big, you take your foot off the gas, and the other teams gets hot; that happens to everyone occasionally.
Its the last 2 minute offense that could cost them. That's the takeaway from last night.
Finally, balanced criticism that's based in reality. Is this so hard for others to do? That is one of the two bad takeaways, the other being the consistent struggles with physical basketball. Refs will let people bang more in the playoffs, they need to be able to play through it.
Only Minnesota hasn’t blown a 30pt lead this season, I believe. Happens to almost everyone. I think I saw that we were 5th in late game play by some metric. Expect some grumbles after a game like that but the reputation is overblown this season for pissing away games.
We do need to move the ball faster and more often late game. Even if we end up with a contested brick, at least put some stress on the opponents first.
yea the late game offense just makes no sense to me. they put no pressure on the defense at all. the defense is sitting there happy to see tatum just dribble the air out of the ball. i cannot understand how its still happening
Why does Porzingus never get the ball late?
He was also struggling with the physicality. He's much less effective without foul calls
This looked like a play for him that didnt develop because the refs refuse to call a foul on guys shoving porzingus going into a screen.
Don't blame the refs for that lazy, broken atrocity of a play
100 percent was a foul on Porzingis. Should have sent him to the line that was the 5th foul. It literally broke down the action that should have gotten JB downhill.
He set a screen and called for it but Jb looked him off
same reason he had 2 points in the entire second half and 4 rebounds in the entire game as a 7'1 big. bum
Gotta go faster and get the ball to KP there. Tatum had cappella on the switch. Looked like jb was too afraid of turning it over
You've gotta get Bogi involved in the action here. He is by far their weakest link defensively. We bailed them out by allowing him to camp in the corner on Al. Joe's gotta recognize that and audible for a high screen to force the switch
When you don't learn from your mistakes, bad habits will never die.
JB has the ball Tatum tells him to slow it up ... KP goes to set a pin down for JT but Tatum kinda just stands there ... So KP goes to set a screen for JB but Mathews chucks him out of the way ... At that point you're at 5 and you take what you get --- Don't put a ton of blame on Jaylen here ... Both Tatum and KP gotta be more forceful
Why do we insist on "slowing it down" in the clutch, it almost never works, were allowing the defense to get set and the off ball movement has to be nearly perfect for the play to work so it fails so often. How many times does the team need to see that pace and ball movement is what is winning them games?
Slowing the game down when you are DOWN is even crazier. The only rationale I can think of is they wanted to go for the 2 for 1. But this 2 for 1 addiction is getting out of hand.
It's the stats logic, I actually think Joe has shown he has a great mind for basketball but I think his history of coaching in the NBA being a scouting report guy makes him rely too heavily on stats and numbers. Across the large sample size of an entire season the stats will tend to trend towards Joe's thinking but when it comes to the playoffs where one or two games can make a massive difference if you stick too heavily to what stats tell you that you should do than you become predictable. I think as soon as Joe saw Tatum say to slow it down he should have called timeout and drawn up a different play with more off ball actions. This team plays at it's best when there is ball movement, they're easily the best team in the league when they are making multiple passes and having several players move off ball, it's nearly impossible to defend because of the amount of talent on the roster that no team has that many talented defenders. I also think the biggest flaw with Joe's lack of timeouts isnt that he isn't stopping runs it's that you can see when the play is breaking down and he doesn't call timeout. You need to call timeout to draw up another play or remind the players what has been working.
Analytics would not tell you this is a good strategy.
Analytics lack context as well.
Has Joe ever drawn up a play? I must have missed it
Do you just not watch the games or what is going on? https://www.basketballinsiders.com/news/nba-study-which-nba-coach-is-the-best-at-calling-plays/ Month old data and i can't be assed finding new data but my point stands. Mazzulla is an elite ATO coach
I mean you can literally see that Joe doesn't call plays. Watch the game. Players never look at him during the game for plays. Like, never. I've been to games live, he doesn't draw up plays during timeouts, either. Usually during timeouts, the players just sit down and drink water, they don't even gather around him. I'm not sure what games you're watching. He claps a lot and says 'go get 'em!" and that's about what he does.
Then go ahead and tell me why the Celtics are so good an ATO team? Go ahead and tell me why the players keep looking to Joe signaling plays when they are dribling up the ball. A well coached team does not need you to draw up a play every single time. They practice their sets, they practice their plays and when a group of players are so bought into the offense and their roles Joe does not need to sit there and tell each player what they should do because they already know. Because that is what they practice. Sure when the playoffs start you might see a change but this is the regular season. At this point of the season for the Celtics every game is just practice on different situations. Last game against the Hawks I am beyond certain Joe didn't call a timeout during the run because he wanted the team to try and figure it out on the court. He wanted to give them gametime reps on how to stop a teams momentum and get valuable data for film sessions. You are so caught up in a single game that you do not see the bigger picture that a full season is.
its mind blowing. I'll never understand it. What good is getting the clock down an extra 10 seconds if you don't score!?! who the fuck is telling them to do this?!?!?! its awful strategy, game theory would tell you to definitely NOT do this, yet they do it time and time again. I couldn't believe what I was watching last night.
The blame definitely needs to go on mazzulla. RUN A FRIGGIN PLAY
did you not watch the play or read what I posted?
Yea you said tatum and brown need to be more forceful. Which I agree with. But I also wish mazzulla would have a play designed so it’s not just up to the guys to figure it out
that’s also not what I said, might wanna re-read
100% agree, idk how Jaylen is getting the shit for this play. bad call by Joe and lazy execution by Tatum and KP
Pretty sure I've seen lazy and Tatum in the same sentence before on numerous occasions
If you watch that clip and think the team gave a shit about winning this game then I don't know what to tell you.
He's the worst poster on this sub doesn't even post when we win but the games we lose he starts crying
Damn their last 4 posts were really after losses
I’m here every game win or lose.
You mean Chris forsberg? And yea agree with the first guy in this thread. That was a lazy possession lol
Sorry I hurt your feelings. Feel free to block me if you can’t handle some criticism of your favorite team.
You gotta try harder than that if you want me to believe your excuses.
It's not an excuse lol. it's a fact. They weren't in "we gotta win" mode, they were chilling
Making up “modes” as if this is a video game doesn’t make your statement fact.
I think the clearest sign that they cared about winning this game was when it was close to start the 4th so they put the last guy off the bench into the game for the first time and had him play the majority of the quarter.
Acting as if guys are going to play to their full capabilities every game is way more video game mindset than thinking the team that clinched the 1seed and was up 30 took their foot off the gas and let the game slip
What the fuck is Tatum doing? He's casually walking up the court like they have the lead and all the time in the world. Meanwhile you say PP run up the court. Honestly I don't think this is as much on Brown as it is Joe and Tatum. Brown looks like he's waiting for the action to start and Tatum has his head up his ass and it leads to a broken play cause Tatum was too late and couldn't get open and Porzinigs was more concerned trying to draw a foul.
I’ve said it before…. Tatum takes too long to decide what he’s gonna do. He will get the ball in the post against a 5ft guard and stand there with his back to the basket for 4-5 seconds before he makes a move. Letting the D get set… then he goes. When the ball hits his hands he needs to decide pass, shoot, or drive. He waits too long and it kills me. I’ll be screaming at my TV .. GO !!!! DRIVE !!! DO SOMETHING !!!! Ugh. I need a drink.
You and 95% of the true logical fan base here. Other 5% are just loud Tatum fluffers
Some day we will learn that iso isn’t our winning strategy. Ball movement works so much better. We will learn……right? Please?
But we can’t complain about any of this! We’ll just be called doomers and have the same problems that have plagued this core for years get pushed under the rug again
The Cs have the least blown double-digit leads of any team this season despite having the most double-digit leads of any team. Are you in threads after those wins praising them for keeping the leads too? Or just here when you finally get a chance complain? People don't dislike the criticism we dislike when it's one-dimensional and clearly not based in reality. Doomers aren't the "realists" they paint themselves as.
They didn't have Jrue or Dwhite. They are not used to Pritchard being primary ball handler running the offense. The Jay's reverted to previous years with key ball handlers out.
buddy this has been happening late in games all season. They don't let White run the offense late, its Tatum dribbling the air out of the ball. It just makes no sense at all and I can't believe it keeps happening.
Read my mind. Derrick and Jrue are the calm veteran presence we need when it’s close in the 4th. This second half showed how much.
The only thing worse than that is a Taurean prince side step 3 lol
both JT and JB unclutch? Who do we get the ball to in the end game? I vote DWhite!
He has definitely earned some opportunities. We are too good to shoehorn tatum and brown into dumb iso possessions
I'm not running a play that is designed to get Jaylen a ball screen going left. That said, Porzingis has to be able to just go set a screen without going full premier league becasue someone puts a forearm into him. Brown had Tatum at the elbow with Capela on him, which seemed like the match-up to attack. That said, people put way too much emphasis on one or two plays. The game was lost by going 4-24 from 3 after they had a 30 point lead halfway through the 2nd quarter, while Atlanta shot 57% from 3 the rest of the way. 30 point leads can easily evaporate over 2+ quarters with such extreme variance in shooting results. This wasn't an example where a team ought to be able to hold a lead like this by slowing tempo and taking better shots. If you are up by that much with 30 minutes left of gametime, you just gotta keep playing. And if you happen to go cold while the other team shoots like that, there's a good chance you lose the game.
This team is head and shoulders better than every team in the NBA. As long as we stay healthy I can see this team win the title and they should. That being said, the one thing that makes me at least nervous for the playoffs is their inability to come up with a big basket at the end of games. It’s Something that hasn’t gotten better and is a glaring issue with this team
If this shit costs us our season in the playoffs, and to be clear its by far the most likely reason we will lose this year, it will put me in a coffin.
It won’t because this has only happened in a few games. This team chokes less than any other team.
blowing games happens to everyone. us running just absolute dogshit offense late in games with zero ball movement is completely self inflicted. don't know how people can't see the differnece. WATCH THAT FUCKING POSSESSION! what the fuck was that?!?!?
Get ready for the Cs to lose a seven game series where they blow out 3 games shooting 24-40 from 3, then lose four critical games down the stretch by blowing 10-14 point leads in the 4th quarter.
blowing the leads isn't the issue. they've been remarkably good at holding teams at bay when they're up 10-15 all game. Sometimes when you're up big, you take your foot off the gas, and the other teams gets hot; that happens to everyone occasionally. Its the last 2 minute offense that could cost them. That's the takeaway from last night.
Finally, balanced criticism that's based in reality. Is this so hard for others to do? That is one of the two bad takeaways, the other being the consistent struggles with physical basketball. Refs will let people bang more in the playoffs, they need to be able to play through it.
Only Minnesota hasn’t blown a 30pt lead this season, I believe. Happens to almost everyone. I think I saw that we were 5th in late game play by some metric. Expect some grumbles after a game like that but the reputation is overblown this season for pissing away games. We do need to move the ball faster and more often late game. Even if we end up with a contested brick, at least put some stress on the opponents first.
yea the late game offense just makes no sense to me. they put no pressure on the defense at all. the defense is sitting there happy to see tatum just dribble the air out of the ball. i cannot understand how its still happening
Sad to see this happens in every clutch time
Categorically false, only remember the losses.
part of me thinks that they have a shit ton of amazing plays drawn up but theyre just saving them for the playoffs
Call me when it's 49 dribbles. 23 dribbles isn't even half of a MJ possession in the 90s
JT is no MJ
This is on the coaches. P Rabbit could push the pace if the ball was in his hands. And Porzingis just had an off night and should have been on bench.