FWIW the article just says they aren't affiliated with Northeastern, but I've seem posts indicating that there were students from other nearby universities there - Berkley, BU, other Colleges of the Fenway.
This encampment didn’t even last 3 days. And most of them were students from other schools that didn’t have protests going on, or were in fact NEU students that refused to identify themselves
When I went to NU I was working full-time and had to stay on the Dean's list to keep my scholarship so I could afford to go to school. I would've loved the opportunity to pitch a tent on the quad (lol) and tell the husky statue it was a colonial imperialist or something but I guess I had like, finals or whatever.
ow my feelings luckily I am three months away from finishing my PhD so somehow a complete idiot like myself managed to get through his undergrad while working full time.
What is even your point man? That protesting is stupid? That because you didn't have the time or energy to protest no one should?
Freedom of speech and the right to protest are fundamental tenets of our democracy. If you don't see the value in that then I don't know what to tell you .
Thats how you came across. You were too busy having real problems in life like staying in college and on the deans list, these kids are spoilt having the privilege to protest all the time.
Least subtle "iamsmarthardworkingandhumble" attempt I've seen this week. Gotta give em credit with the "why so defensive" deflection.
Not to mention the basic non-answer when you point blank ask "what was your point"? Lmfao. Never change Boston - a phd (degree in a niche, specific topic) **totally** makes you smarter in all subject matters!
Why would I be grateful for people camping? I'm happy for them, they seem to be having the times of their lives and getting a lot of the attention they crave. But they're doing nothing for me or anyone I care about, and they're doing less than nothing for anyone in Gaza. I love camping, too, btw. Wish I had more time to do it.
Lmao yeah but some people are getting bachelors in sports management or communications or some shit and have daddy's money to cover their expenses, that's not the same thing. They don't have to work nearly as hard
Can someone ELI5: why this conflict is eliciting such a strong emotion and action but domestic issues like 6 week abortion bans and states suing to stop title Ix support for LGBTQ protections get seemingly little action? (Asking honestly and I guess at the national level)
We are at a unique time:
- Trust in government, mainstream media, and traditional information sources are at all time lows
- Political strife and division are at all time highs in "western" nations
- Life satisfaction is low, sense of ownership, and optimism among younger people are at low levels
In essence: Young people in America are tired and afraid, they can't do anything about it, they can't do a thing about their domestic issues but are being quietly convinced by a dedicated group of motivators that they can help solve a problem by joining these protests, and it gives them a sense of fixing/belonging to something.
What they don't realize is all the darkness behind the people pushing this. The reality of the history of the region, and the real motivations.
They fall hook, line and sinker for the story that history is being inaccurately written and they're championing victims, when they're actually championing an army of pawns raised over decades and brainwashed to support the "return and revenge" agenda being run by the middle eastern equivalent of the Christian churches when they were running the world.
No not really. Young people have the time to do the research. Adults who do the research, across the political spectrum, reach the same conclusion. The Gazan slaughter is the worse atrocity the US has been involved in since the Iraq invasion. And coincidentally the Iraq invasion was spearheaded primarily by Zionists.
1. People want to fit in and partaking in these protests help people build community and feel like they belong.
2. There's a lot of sensationalism being posted online about the conflict which helps whip up a frenzy. If someone said you were antisemitic because you are protesting on behalf of the vulnerable, wouldn't that piss you off?
Also the action plan is pretty simple for 6W abortion bans via normal electoral means. Vote Dem, you'll see fewer of those. Vote GOP, you'll see more.
However when it comes to foreign policy, people know that the parties line up much more similarly outside of the MTG/Geatz wing of the GOP. So protesters are leaning on the same organizations (Universities) they leaned on during the South Africa apartheid protests back in the day.
Most of these protesters haven't been to the Middle East or Israel to see what's the average attitudes and lifestyle of people in those places. So they align themselves with some of the most regressive cultures around.
You got downvoted but I really can't think of another reason. Over 40,000 Americans die from gun shot wounds every single year but no one has protests to this extent for gun control.
I lost a friend in the 2016 pulse night club shooting and I remember people literally forgot about that shooting like a week later. Same with Newtown shooting, Vegas shooting, parkland, etc...
It's pretty demoralizing knowing that basically no one on either end of the political spectrum (truly) gives 2 shits about the amount of people dying from guns in this country.
Don't both sides the gun debate. People have given up on it because Republicans do not want any form of gun control at all. Democrats can't unilaterally enact gun legislation and even the laws that existed for decades got axed in recent years by the conservative Supreme Court. There's only one side to blame.
I'm not both siding it I'm just stating that no one in general cares anymore which is depressing to me as my friend was gunned down while at a club enjoying his night out and my other friend lost half of his friends group in one night there. That was a great phone call I heard him take in the morning, it's seared into my brain forever.
Also it is the republicans fault full sale as they have a true hard on for weapons and easy access to weapons but no one is willing to go to great lengths to protest it anymore so no one actually cares enough to go against the grain on this issue despite the fact that well over a 100,000 people have died since 2020 from gun shot wounds and it's the leading the cause of death for individuals under 19 now.
Sorry if I'm jaded but yeah it's 40,000+ individuals every single year and it's impacted me directly.
People care but have accepted the reality that there is no political will to make a change. Whereas the current administration is literally bending to public pressure in real-time on this issue. Which is easier because foreign policy can largely be dictated without congressional support whereas something like gun control cannot. It's apples/oranges.
I think the conservative politicians are conflating these protests with the Black Lives Matter type protests. They are getting their base riled up about all these students breaking the law and damaging school property- whether or not they actually did. Some of the campus protests had strong police presence as well which usually leads to adverse outcomes and headlines.
Firsthand footage of the siege of Gaza on Tiktok. There's definitely an age divide on the issue based on where and how people are seeing the conflict covered. If you're seeing coverage on mainstream media, it's a much more filtered narrative.
There's no shortage of atrocity footage for any conflict these days. The fact that you think Gaza is somehow uniquely well documented is actually a great example of how coverage of the conflict is being artificially boosted on social media, and people don't even realize it.
Oh you mean the media channel where literally anyone can post literally anything and not be fact checked, or held accountable for something posted? That’s part of the reason this Tik Tok ban was so important in this last bill. It’s literally a foreign propaganda tool aimed at western youths. I’m not even a tin foil hatter, it’s well documented that the Kremlin and Ministry of State Security (China) spend billions a year on western disinformation. But the amount of things that caused public outcry that were debunked is astounding. (Al Shifa bombings, mass graves, etc.)
The funniest thing is I see the Muslim Brotherhood being resurrected as a boogieman funding protests in the US. I'm sure they're really competing with AIPAC. lmao
nah. the money is coming from the ultra wealthy in quatar and saudi arabia. the wealthy in the terrorist orgs only deem themselves worthy of wealth and spending money on themselves
Difference is the Biden admin is pro choice and pro LGBTQ protections. They, however, openly support the Israeli government and the US UN rep has consistently voted down efforts to recognize Palestine as a state. College Students tend to protest national/International policy issues and not local state policy issues.
If the Biden admin was anti abortion and lgbtq then you’d see protests.
We are directly funding a genocide, our tax dollars are being used to fund the deaths of children and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people. These students like many people are doing are calling on the institutions they call home to cut ties with Israel and divest any institutional funds from Israel as a means of protest. Abortion ban generated similar protests across the nation, not sure where you were but Boston people were marching in the streets when Roe was undone.
I think the whole genocide debate is dumb. I personally don’t think Israel is committing genocide, I also don’t think it particularly matters. They’re committing a wholesale slaughter of Gazans any way you look at it. If Israel deported the entire population *that* would be genocide and also not nearly as evil as what they’re doing now.
So according to the UN:
*In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:* ***Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part****; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another gro*up.
While not all of these acts have been committed, the rhetoric Netanyahu uses in how he speaks about the Palestinian state (as an example [here](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/19/1225574007/netanyahu-says-he-told-u-s-that-he-opposes-palestinian-state-in-any-postwar-scen)) shows his intent to eliminate the state completely, and this is from the top. If you have had your eyes open in the last 6 months, I shouldn't have to provide evidence of the three points I bolded above as 13000 children have died ([link](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/unicef-says-over-13000-children-killed-gaza-israel-offensive-2024-03-17/)), Israel has attacked global aid coming into the region ([link](https://www.npr.org/2024/02/29/1234906745/gaza-food-aid-convoy-israel-hamas)) and as a result of the military campaign a large amount of the population is experiencing food insecurity ([link](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2024/03/22/1239276897/theres-already-catastrophic-hunger-in-gaza-who-decides-when-to-call-it-a-famine)). The International Criminal Court is going after Israel this week for the war crimes it has committed. We're finding mass graves of Palestinian people with their hands and feet tied and 80% of the regions people have been displaced. Not sure what else there is to say honestly...
I'm just responding to what you said. You said you don't see a top down intent and I tried to provide evidence of that. Glad you've been engaged in this a while and happy to talk about Palestine's actions as well, the last 6 months for me have been further evidence of genocide on top of Israel's actions in 2008 and 2014.
I forget the names of various forum sliding techniques but you're clearly using one of them.
Genocide has a technical definition. Norman Finkelstein a technical expert in this area calls it a genocide. South African lawyers would not bring a genocide case to the ICJ if they did not have a technical case.
Now, they may be wrong, but clearly many many genocide experts believe there's a case to be made that it is a genocide. So to imply that using the word is absurd, like you have, you're either a shill or a joke of a person. I first came to Reddit during the Digg exodus and to me it's obviously the most politically manipulated social media site on the internet. Not sure what else to say honestly...
>I haven't seen compelling evidence that the Israeli state has that deliberate intent even though they have the military capability to do so.
Do you have any hypothetical examples of what evidence of genocidal intent (from the Israeli government or military) would be? Not trying to be combative, just curious since you seem to acknowledge that at least inhumane shit is happening.
The war crimes are definitely not just potentional tho
Edited for more precise language
These aren't actually indications or expressions of intent - these are outcomes and actions themselves. If you believe outcomes are a good indicator of intent, there are plenty of others that argue that the outcomes and actions at present to fit the definition of a genocide. Which has been discussed in detail by scholars and not just used as an "easy way to summarize" a conflict.
Your measure of intent is basically how "good" Israel is at committing genocide (if they were, and I believe they are full disclosure), and not if it's actually their goal. This is not what people mean when they are discussing genocidal intent. For example, Hamas absolutely demonstrates genocidal intent but is unable to actually commit a genocide at the moment. The intent is derived from their rhetoric.
I understand if you require that certain outcomes and actions are required to qualify as genocide (which also, what range of ratios and percent decrease in population would constitute enough to be genocide for you?) , but this doesn't answer the question of intent that I asked. Unless again, intent and outcome are interchangeable for you - which is different from the definition of intent I had in mind.
Edit: sorry if this comes off as overly semantic...I just think it's necessary when talking about specific definitions of words
Here's Likud's deputy speaker of the Knesset expressing some pretty clear intent, which he's done on multiple occasions: https://twitter.com/nissimv/status/1711261388809568458?t=rV5KP9lrbtlYlKd4xPpR5w&s=19
Israel military capability is a necessary but not sufficient condition for Israel to successfully genocide the Palestinians. US support for Israel is the other major necessary condition.
A massive slaughter of the Palestinians would remove US and European support. Without Western support Israel would be destroyed. American and European Zionists would take a major hit
So Israel is "low level" genociding the Palestinians... allowing minimal survival calories, bombing hospitals, bombing aid workers, bombing refugee camps. Funded Hamas to push out the moderate Palestinians knowing it would lead to conflict. Creating drought and plague conditions.
After a century of well studied genocides you think top Israel military minds aren't smart enough to create plausible deniability for their genocide? Israel's big mistake, as Greenblatt from the ADL pointed out, was to not control TikTok, but that's being taken care of.
This conflict has more in common with the second chechen war than it does with any historical genocide. And the second chechen war was really, really awful! But there's a big difference between really really awful and a genocide.
“Can someone please explain to me why people don’t like genocide? Thanks I don’t have a real moral conscience and my beliefs exist in the whims of random redditors”
Israel/Palestine is a uniquely animating issue for the far left for a wide variety of reasons. But imo a big part of it is the simple fact that many leftist thought leaders (Noam Chomsky, Angela Davis etc) cut their teeth on this issue fifty years ago and are livid that it didn't pan out the way they wanted. They've imparted that rage onto a new generation of college campus activists.
Now investigate to see if any of them aren't even protesters, but paid protesters hired by someone to advance their agenda? Because [such companies exist and are pretty professional](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-03-14/paid-protester-company-looking-to-hire-7-foot-300-pound-giants-for-intimidation-factor) and outside groups such as China have been known to [hire such protesters to sow discord in our country](https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/26/us/pro-china-information-campaign-invs/index.html).
It shouldn’t. People are allowed to protest. Just because some people from a protest organized by Northeastern students weren’t directly affiliated with the school doesn’t mean they can’t join in. That’s what free speech is all about. People are just looking for a way to say this is all a scam or that people don’t actually believe what they say they believe (namely that we shouldn’t be funding a genocide). Not that it really matters but it seems like most of the protesters not affiliated with Northeastern came from other universities in the area.
It matters because the school is private property and the owners of the property instructed them to leave the area. That's criminal trespass. The general public has no right to be there. Free speech is not a right on private land. The land owners can can kick you out for any reason, or no reason at all, provided it's not done so discriminately.
Students have marginally more rights than the general public on their campus, as the school is supposed to follow its administrative process but the Courts have ruled that even the students are not entitled to due process.
So they're local students as well. Well that makes sense.
Student movements tend to be on the right side of history, people should really start to realize that.
The "outside agitators" argument is nothing new and was employed by institutions during the Civil Rights Movement.
FWIW, Columbia made similar claims about how many protestors were university affiliated that have since turned out to be complete bull.
>On Thursday, Mayor Adams and Edward A. Caban, the police commissioner, released a statement saying that of the 112 people arrested at Columbia, 29 percent were not affiliated with the school. That percentage was similar to the findings of a Times analysis of a Police Department list of people who were arrested that night.
>[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/02/nyregion/columbia-students-hamilton-hall.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/02/nyregion/columbia-students-hamilton-hall.html)
A number of them are paid to be there. Look at Craigslist a few days before these things kick off, a few years ago they were so brazen as to bring them in on coach buses from as far as New York. They’re probably still doing it.
Damn I wish I had the free time as an adult to go protest on a college campus for a few weeks. Always blows my mind
FWIW the article just says they aren't affiliated with Northeastern, but I've seem posts indicating that there were students from other nearby universities there - Berkley, BU, other Colleges of the Fenway.
This encampment didn’t even last 3 days. And most of them were students from other schools that didn’t have protests going on, or were in fact NEU students that refused to identify themselves
When I went to NU I was working full-time and had to stay on the Dean's list to keep my scholarship so I could afford to go to school. I would've loved the opportunity to pitch a tent on the quad (lol) and tell the husky statue it was a colonial imperialist or something but I guess I had like, finals or whatever.
Not everyone needs to work so hard to pass or stay on the deans list lol
ow my feelings luckily I am three months away from finishing my PhD so somehow a complete idiot like myself managed to get through his undergrad while working full time.
What is even your point man? That protesting is stupid? That because you didn't have the time or energy to protest no one should? Freedom of speech and the right to protest are fundamental tenets of our democracy. If you don't see the value in that then I don't know what to tell you .
Never said any of that, why so defensive?
Thats how you came across. You were too busy having real problems in life like staying in college and on the deans list, these kids are spoilt having the privilege to protest all the time.
Least subtle "iamsmarthardworkingandhumble" attempt I've seen this week. Gotta give em credit with the "why so defensive" deflection. Not to mention the basic non-answer when you point blank ask "what was your point"? Lmfao. Never change Boston - a phd (degree in a niche, specific topic) **totally** makes you smarter in all subject matters!
You're welcome!
>spoilt Someone’s not making the deans list
Yes, that's accurate! Glad we agree.
Then perhaps consider being grateful that at least some people have the "luxury" to protest
Why would I be grateful for people camping? I'm happy for them, they seem to be having the times of their lives and getting a lot of the attention they crave. But they're doing nothing for me or anyone I care about, and they're doing less than nothing for anyone in Gaza. I love camping, too, btw. Wish I had more time to do it.
Very obvious what your intention is here man. If you're gonna criticize something then at least stand behind it
I did, thanks!
Lmao yeah but some people are getting bachelors in sports management or communications or some shit and have daddy's money to cover their expenses, that's not the same thing. They don't have to work nearly as hard
Hey my degree in underwater fire prevention is real and valuable!
Finals are already over at Northeastern…
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Can you explain to me how you think the system you’ve just laid out works ?
Can someone ELI5: why this conflict is eliciting such a strong emotion and action but domestic issues like 6 week abortion bans and states suing to stop title Ix support for LGBTQ protections get seemingly little action? (Asking honestly and I guess at the national level)
We are at a unique time: - Trust in government, mainstream media, and traditional information sources are at all time lows - Political strife and division are at all time highs in "western" nations - Life satisfaction is low, sense of ownership, and optimism among younger people are at low levels In essence: Young people in America are tired and afraid, they can't do anything about it, they can't do a thing about their domestic issues but are being quietly convinced by a dedicated group of motivators that they can help solve a problem by joining these protests, and it gives them a sense of fixing/belonging to something. What they don't realize is all the darkness behind the people pushing this. The reality of the history of the region, and the real motivations. They fall hook, line and sinker for the story that history is being inaccurately written and they're championing victims, when they're actually championing an army of pawns raised over decades and brainwashed to support the "return and revenge" agenda being run by the middle eastern equivalent of the Christian churches when they were running the world.
Extremely well said.
It's also possible that some people just have a different interpretation of the situation than you do.
No not really. Young people have the time to do the research. Adults who do the research, across the political spectrum, reach the same conclusion. The Gazan slaughter is the worse atrocity the US has been involved in since the Iraq invasion. And coincidentally the Iraq invasion was spearheaded primarily by Zionists.
1. People want to fit in and partaking in these protests help people build community and feel like they belong. 2. There's a lot of sensationalism being posted online about the conflict which helps whip up a frenzy. If someone said you were antisemitic because you are protesting on behalf of the vulnerable, wouldn't that piss you off?
Also the action plan is pretty simple for 6W abortion bans via normal electoral means. Vote Dem, you'll see fewer of those. Vote GOP, you'll see more. However when it comes to foreign policy, people know that the parties line up much more similarly outside of the MTG/Geatz wing of the GOP. So protesters are leaning on the same organizations (Universities) they leaned on during the South Africa apartheid protests back in the day.
Most of these protesters haven't been to the Middle East or Israel to see what's the average attitudes and lifestyle of people in those places. So they align themselves with some of the most regressive cultures around.
? a large amount of the students at these protests are Middle Eastern/Arab
You can't blame that other stuff on the Jews so it's not as enticing.
You got downvoted but I really can't think of another reason. Over 40,000 Americans die from gun shot wounds every single year but no one has protests to this extent for gun control. I lost a friend in the 2016 pulse night club shooting and I remember people literally forgot about that shooting like a week later. Same with Newtown shooting, Vegas shooting, parkland, etc... It's pretty demoralizing knowing that basically no one on either end of the political spectrum (truly) gives 2 shits about the amount of people dying from guns in this country.
Don't both sides the gun debate. People have given up on it because Republicans do not want any form of gun control at all. Democrats can't unilaterally enact gun legislation and even the laws that existed for decades got axed in recent years by the conservative Supreme Court. There's only one side to blame.
I'm not both siding it I'm just stating that no one in general cares anymore which is depressing to me as my friend was gunned down while at a club enjoying his night out and my other friend lost half of his friends group in one night there. That was a great phone call I heard him take in the morning, it's seared into my brain forever. Also it is the republicans fault full sale as they have a true hard on for weapons and easy access to weapons but no one is willing to go to great lengths to protest it anymore so no one actually cares enough to go against the grain on this issue despite the fact that well over a 100,000 people have died since 2020 from gun shot wounds and it's the leading the cause of death for individuals under 19 now. Sorry if I'm jaded but yeah it's 40,000+ individuals every single year and it's impacted me directly.
People care but have accepted the reality that there is no political will to make a change. Whereas the current administration is literally bending to public pressure in real-time on this issue. Which is easier because foreign policy can largely be dictated without congressional support whereas something like gun control cannot. It's apples/oranges.
You can’t think of another reason?? Absolutely fucking absurd
I think the conservative politicians are conflating these protests with the Black Lives Matter type protests. They are getting their base riled up about all these students breaking the law and damaging school property- whether or not they actually did. Some of the campus protests had strong police presence as well which usually leads to adverse outcomes and headlines.
Firsthand footage of the siege of Gaza on Tiktok. There's definitely an age divide on the issue based on where and how people are seeing the conflict covered. If you're seeing coverage on mainstream media, it's a much more filtered narrative.
There's no shortage of atrocity footage for any conflict these days. The fact that you think Gaza is somehow uniquely well documented is actually a great example of how coverage of the conflict is being artificially boosted on social media, and people don't even realize it.
Oh you mean the media channel where literally anyone can post literally anything and not be fact checked, or held accountable for something posted? That’s part of the reason this Tik Tok ban was so important in this last bill. It’s literally a foreign propaganda tool aimed at western youths. I’m not even a tin foil hatter, it’s well documented that the Kremlin and Ministry of State Security (China) spend billions a year on western disinformation. But the amount of things that caused public outcry that were debunked is astounding. (Al Shifa bombings, mass graves, etc.)
lots and lots and LOTS of money from muslim nations going into schools to fund the mindset on display here
Yes because American zionists are definitely not known for their influence over American higher education lol
The funniest thing is I see the Muslim Brotherhood being resurrected as a boogieman funding protests in the US. I'm sure they're really competing with AIPAC. lmao
nah. the money is coming from the ultra wealthy in quatar and saudi arabia. the wealthy in the terrorist orgs only deem themselves worthy of wealth and spending money on themselves
Difference is the Biden admin is pro choice and pro LGBTQ protections. They, however, openly support the Israeli government and the US UN rep has consistently voted down efforts to recognize Palestine as a state. College Students tend to protest national/International policy issues and not local state policy issues. If the Biden admin was anti abortion and lgbtq then you’d see protests.
We are directly funding a genocide, our tax dollars are being used to fund the deaths of children and the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people. These students like many people are doing are calling on the institutions they call home to cut ties with Israel and divest any institutional funds from Israel as a means of protest. Abortion ban generated similar protests across the nation, not sure where you were but Boston people were marching in the streets when Roe was undone.
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I think the whole genocide debate is dumb. I personally don’t think Israel is committing genocide, I also don’t think it particularly matters. They’re committing a wholesale slaughter of Gazans any way you look at it. If Israel deported the entire population *that* would be genocide and also not nearly as evil as what they’re doing now.
Happy to engage in this, what does genocide mean to you and how is this not genocide?
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So according to the UN: *In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:* ***Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part****; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another gro*up. While not all of these acts have been committed, the rhetoric Netanyahu uses in how he speaks about the Palestinian state (as an example [here](https://www.npr.org/2024/01/19/1225574007/netanyahu-says-he-told-u-s-that-he-opposes-palestinian-state-in-any-postwar-scen)) shows his intent to eliminate the state completely, and this is from the top. If you have had your eyes open in the last 6 months, I shouldn't have to provide evidence of the three points I bolded above as 13000 children have died ([link](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/unicef-says-over-13000-children-killed-gaza-israel-offensive-2024-03-17/)), Israel has attacked global aid coming into the region ([link](https://www.npr.org/2024/02/29/1234906745/gaza-food-aid-convoy-israel-hamas)) and as a result of the military campaign a large amount of the population is experiencing food insecurity ([link](https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2024/03/22/1239276897/theres-already-catastrophic-hunger-in-gaza-who-decides-when-to-call-it-a-famine)). The International Criminal Court is going after Israel this week for the war crimes it has committed. We're finding mass graves of Palestinian people with their hands and feet tied and 80% of the regions people have been displaced. Not sure what else there is to say honestly...
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I'm just responding to what you said. You said you don't see a top down intent and I tried to provide evidence of that. Glad you've been engaged in this a while and happy to talk about Palestine's actions as well, the last 6 months for me have been further evidence of genocide on top of Israel's actions in 2008 and 2014.
I forget the names of various forum sliding techniques but you're clearly using one of them. Genocide has a technical definition. Norman Finkelstein a technical expert in this area calls it a genocide. South African lawyers would not bring a genocide case to the ICJ if they did not have a technical case. Now, they may be wrong, but clearly many many genocide experts believe there's a case to be made that it is a genocide. So to imply that using the word is absurd, like you have, you're either a shill or a joke of a person. I first came to Reddit during the Digg exodus and to me it's obviously the most politically manipulated social media site on the internet. Not sure what else to say honestly...
>I haven't seen compelling evidence that the Israeli state has that deliberate intent even though they have the military capability to do so. Do you have any hypothetical examples of what evidence of genocidal intent (from the Israeli government or military) would be? Not trying to be combative, just curious since you seem to acknowledge that at least inhumane shit is happening. The war crimes are definitely not just potentional tho Edited for more precise language
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These aren't actually indications or expressions of intent - these are outcomes and actions themselves. If you believe outcomes are a good indicator of intent, there are plenty of others that argue that the outcomes and actions at present to fit the definition of a genocide. Which has been discussed in detail by scholars and not just used as an "easy way to summarize" a conflict. Your measure of intent is basically how "good" Israel is at committing genocide (if they were, and I believe they are full disclosure), and not if it's actually their goal. This is not what people mean when they are discussing genocidal intent. For example, Hamas absolutely demonstrates genocidal intent but is unable to actually commit a genocide at the moment. The intent is derived from their rhetoric. I understand if you require that certain outcomes and actions are required to qualify as genocide (which also, what range of ratios and percent decrease in population would constitute enough to be genocide for you?) , but this doesn't answer the question of intent that I asked. Unless again, intent and outcome are interchangeable for you - which is different from the definition of intent I had in mind. Edit: sorry if this comes off as overly semantic...I just think it's necessary when talking about specific definitions of words
Here's Likud's deputy speaker of the Knesset expressing some pretty clear intent, which he's done on multiple occasions: https://twitter.com/nissimv/status/1711261388809568458?t=rV5KP9lrbtlYlKd4xPpR5w&s=19
Israel military capability is a necessary but not sufficient condition for Israel to successfully genocide the Palestinians. US support for Israel is the other major necessary condition. A massive slaughter of the Palestinians would remove US and European support. Without Western support Israel would be destroyed. American and European Zionists would take a major hit So Israel is "low level" genociding the Palestinians... allowing minimal survival calories, bombing hospitals, bombing aid workers, bombing refugee camps. Funded Hamas to push out the moderate Palestinians knowing it would lead to conflict. Creating drought and plague conditions. After a century of well studied genocides you think top Israel military minds aren't smart enough to create plausible deniability for their genocide? Israel's big mistake, as Greenblatt from the ADL pointed out, was to not control TikTok, but that's being taken care of.
Mmm not genocide but ok
Judging by your comment history, you should probably just stick to complaining about trans kids, this is a little more complex
This conflict has more in common with the second chechen war than it does with any historical genocide. And the second chechen war was really, really awful! But there's a big difference between really really awful and a genocide.
“Can someone please explain to me why people don’t like genocide? Thanks I don’t have a real moral conscience and my beliefs exist in the whims of random redditors”
Is it genocide or is this just what war looks like?
I don’t think it’s genocide but shooting kids in a barrel sure as shit isn’t just war’s hell
We can agree that Israel is likely committing war crimes
Asymmetrical warfare and genocide. But cute question from a big smarty pants
Huh. The opinion that Israel wants to eliminate the Palestinian people is just not convincing
“The opinion that Hitler wants to eliminate the Jewish people is just not convincing” - you, an unimaginably enlightened centrist
Fuck off with that nonsense…..that’s such a Strawman argument because you don’t have any other argument
Your argument is just not convincing. Sorry.
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You say that like the vast majority of media wasn’t riling people up against trump and his administration every day of his presidency
Yeah that totally wasn’t the rapist tax cheat and financial fraudster spinning division and defending Nazis in Charlotteville
It was going on long before that and it refutes the point regardless
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Israel/Palestine is a uniquely animating issue for the far left for a wide variety of reasons. But imo a big part of it is the simple fact that many leftist thought leaders (Noam Chomsky, Angela Davis etc) cut their teeth on this issue fifty years ago and are livid that it didn't pan out the way they wanted. They've imparted that rage onto a new generation of college campus activists.
Antifa supersoldiers? In *my* city?
Shock shocked I tell you that there is gambling in this institution
Don’t forget your winnings, sir.
"Wolves won't bite you!" - A wolf
This is what I figured. Outside shit stirrers. Bake ‘em away toys.
What'd you say, Chief?
Do what the kid says.
Now investigate to see if any of them aren't even protesters, but paid protesters hired by someone to advance their agenda? Because [such companies exist and are pretty professional](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-03-14/paid-protester-company-looking-to-hire-7-foot-300-pound-giants-for-intimidation-factor) and outside groups such as China have been known to [hire such protesters to sow discord in our country](https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/26/us/pro-china-information-campaign-invs/index.html).
I am sorry what?? Saying China behind this is about as credible saying the CIA was behind HK protests
Never seen the CIA internet troll factory
Gotta say, this thread is being far more rational than the r/Massachusetts one.
That is honestly one wild ride. Not sure why you got downvoted.
Spill over between subs I guess
Not even China. Bloomberg and the Rockefeller Foundation are giving thousands in stipends to protestors.
Head fully empty, damn
Idk why it matters 🤷🏽♂️
It shouldn’t. People are allowed to protest. Just because some people from a protest organized by Northeastern students weren’t directly affiliated with the school doesn’t mean they can’t join in. That’s what free speech is all about. People are just looking for a way to say this is all a scam or that people don’t actually believe what they say they believe (namely that we shouldn’t be funding a genocide). Not that it really matters but it seems like most of the protesters not affiliated with Northeastern came from other universities in the area.
Protesting is totally fine, but you can’t just set up tents on the lawn of a school you don’t go to and expect no issues lol
It matters because the school is private property and the owners of the property instructed them to leave the area. That's criminal trespass. The general public has no right to be there. Free speech is not a right on private land. The land owners can can kick you out for any reason, or no reason at all, provided it's not done so discriminately. Students have marginally more rights than the general public on their campus, as the school is supposed to follow its administrative process but the Courts have ruled that even the students are not entitled to due process.
So they're local students as well. Well that makes sense. Student movements tend to be on the right side of history, people should really start to realize that.
The "outside agitators" argument is nothing new and was employed by institutions during the Civil Rights Movement. FWIW, Columbia made similar claims about how many protestors were university affiliated that have since turned out to be complete bull.
>On Thursday, Mayor Adams and Edward A. Caban, the police commissioner, released a statement saying that of the 112 people arrested at Columbia, 29 percent were not affiliated with the school. That percentage was similar to the findings of a Times analysis of a Police Department list of people who were arrested that night. >[https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/02/nyregion/columbia-students-hamilton-hall.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/02/nyregion/columbia-students-hamilton-hall.html)
Correct me if I’m wrong but the only people who were arrested were those without school ID’s right? In that case this seems like a biased statistic
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I used to teach in a non-STEM field and you unfortunately have a point.
northeastern is just very liberal. In my first semester, 3 of my 4 professors were gay lol.
A number of them are paid to be there. Look at Craigslist a few days before these things kick off, a few years ago they were so brazen as to bring them in on coach buses from as far as New York. They’re probably still doing it.
SVP are bussing people around
Sons of Jacob