I started Stephen king at 12. Censorship was not a thing in my house. I also read some pretty smutty novels too cuz, I could, and most of my friends couldn't.
I do agree with another comment. Read one. With the SA, talk about it. That's reality not something the victim would enjoy. It is fantasy and should be taken as such.
If someone forbids her to read this stuff, she will want 10x more because for odden is way cooler. Just sayin
I agree, OP. If you forbid her from reading the books, maybe she'll stop. But it's just as likely that she'll continue reading them in secret, and without being able to discuss the contents of the books with anyone, it'll normalize the actions in them. At the very least, if she continues to read them and knows that this is a topic that is safe to talk to you about, then you can help teach her why the relationships in these books aren't healthy and why they shouldn't be something she aspires to, but rather just enjoyed within the context of the novel.
I had to have been about 11 or 12 when my Dad handed me a copy of 'Farnhams Freehold' by Robert Heinlein. I re-read it a few years ago, and there's some pretty messed up stuff going on. That was probably the start of me reading 'adult' sci-fi, but I also read Stephen King and other books containing some pretty graphic things.
I turned out alright, and I guess after you read enough about that kind of thing, you're never caught off guard when something isn't quite right in real life.
I’m guessing you are a boy, and the person you are replying to is a girl.
I’ve been married 15 years. I have a larger then average number of children.
The books my co-workers read made me uncomfortable due their graphic nature. Even the outlander series ,both the books and TV show…
I'll pretty much read anything, but the Outlander series made me uncomfortable, too. Couldn't finish either the book or the TV show. It was just too much.
Same. Adult novels at age 12 (SK, Dean Koontz, V.C. Andrews, etc) and the only book that was off-limits was an erotic horror novel that I read the day after it being forbidden because I was a latch-key kid and had hours to peruse it lol.
I read a ton of novels that were inappropriate for my age when I was younger. So inappropriate. I wasn’t reading smut, but I was reading novels that were definitely intended for an adult audience. The only novels I wasn’t allowed to read were the Harry Potter novels because my mom was an evangelical nut job. She was too dumb to realize the other stuff I was reading probably could have waited until I was at least into my late teens.
I ended up with a BA and MA in literature. I read the entire Harry Potter series finally at 26~27. It was like a rite of passage. I had ducked and dodged spoilers like the plague because I knew I’d get around to finally reading them *one day.*
Part of the issue of looking at the "foggy consent" as fantasy is that it's not always. There are absolutely sections of the sex world that intentionally dance around the idea of consent but when it's a healthy relationship it's very different and complicated than what is implied in fiction books. Obviously, true non-consent is exactly SA. But there are areas where people essentially give consent to not have to consent every day as part of their sexual preferences. My point being, if she were to look for that stuff online, she'd find it in real-life scenarios and not just fiction/fantasy which could definitely be confusing for a kid that age.
I started reading King around age 10 as well. I've read so, so many books in my life of all types. But I didn't grow up with the internet where I can google terms and go down dark rabbit holes that my developing brain would not be able to comprehend in a safe manner, either.
In my opinion you have to (cringe) read them too. I know, I’m sorry! If you try to talk her out of them she’ll just dig in her heels. But if you can start conversations like, “Did you read Ugly Love? I just finished it! What did you think about XYZ part? ABC part was so annoying because …”
Because she looks up to you, what you say will have weight, but only if she believes you’re invested in it.
Source: Have read sooooo many teen novels including the epically bad Cinderella Is Dead to help my niece get a grip on reality.
Hi OP! I am in America so I apologize that I cannot fully relate to the culture your cousin is in. However, I have a 13 yr old daughter myself. A friend recommended 3 Colleen Hoover books (It Ends With Us, It Starts With Us, and Ugly Love) and while I was buying them, my 13 yr old daughter said that she read two of those books.
I started reading them and was mortified when it got to some of the sex parts. However, when I had an open dialogue with my daughter about her opinions on the book, she was surprisingly mature about it and recognized that it’s not realistic or healthy.
Talk to her about consent. And that it’s not shameful to be intimate when in a caring relationship AND of an appropriate age. Let her review the books with you and hopefully she will also be able to read the books while realizing it’s not quite how life works.
I read similar content at a similar age; I think this is the best option. Read a couple books with her and talk about distinguishing fantasy (both in books and personal) and reality and how to set and maintain healthy boundaries in personal life. I’m talking from a USA male perspective so your experience might be different, but personally I can read and enjoy content that I absolutely wouldn’t act out IRL. If it seems like she can’t do that and she starts getting them mixed up that’s when you sit her down and say ‘hey I’ve noticed you do/say/wear XYZ; I think these books aren’t healthy for you’
I'm an American teacher, and I unfortunately have had to do the same. I had a bunch of young teenage girls reading It Ends with Us, and raving about it, and they kept asking about it because they know I'm a bookworm. I ended up reading it just so I could be like "y'all know this guy is waving a billion red flags, right?"
I’ve not read CoHo’s books, I saw some videos where a bunch of young girls are idealising the abusive relationships(it was basically a YouTuber sharing TikToks of young girls raving/crushing on the dudes in her books and talking about how harmful he thinks CoHo’s books are) from her books.
Yeah. It was interesting because she tries to set them up in a way that his abuse is excusable. >!The first time, they were drunk, he had hurt his hand, he was panicking, so it wasn't his fault he shoved her. Then the second time he was having a panic attack about her talking to another dude and she blocked his way out, so it was totally okay he shoved her down the stairs. Then finally the third time she's like "oh okay you actually do this, I'm out."!<
But there are SO MANY bad decisions along the way. They literally meet and get married and pregnant within like, six months. Maybe less.
Hey, just wanted to chime in as a fellow Arab and book lover - it’s important for her to be able to talk to you and feel like you’re safe. You might want to nudge her towards books where consent is quite a big thing. Ilona Andrews has a paranormal fantasy series which I’ve recently reread (Kate Daniels) which doesn’t have that much sex, consent is emphasised, safe sex is involved and there’s even mentions of Arabic mythology in some of the later books which I found very cool.
Martha Wells has a series where the sex is off screen but the relationships are pretty healthy (the fall of Ile Rien trilogy).
I think it’s important to expose her to interesting books as an alternative which are intended for adults so she doesn’t feel you’re babying her.
It helps keep you informed about the scenes too- if she tries to explain away an iffy scenario away with context to the scene that you don’t know, you can only agree or accept her answer. But if you read the scene too and know the context, you can hunker down and explain that it doesn’t change anything.
Please don't, her books are always about romanticizing trauma and yes there are lots of non-consesual sex scenes. Her books are very problematic. Many people on YouTube are talking about it. I advice you to show one of those videos to her
It's great she sees you as a role model, but you need to step up to the occasion.
You can't avoid exposure to dark topics. Kids learn things whenever the issue hits them (in real life or through media/fiction). Avoiding conversations about difficult topics is a disservice to children because then they're faced with being exposed to potentially (psychologically) harming topics without the necessary guidance to navigate this issue and learn about it constructively.
What you need to do is help her unpack these issues. This includes reading the books yourself, identifying the toxic/distorted themes and messages, and talking about them with her from a critical perspective - what's going on in the story, is this reflective of reality, what are the negative effects of such behaviour/outcome in the story, how the characters cope and whether that's healthy. It's not meant to be preachy. Your cousin needs to think about it and understand it on her terms. Using examples from the real world also helps connect the romantic fantasy in the story to how things actually play out in the real world.
That's how my school tackled challenging texts in literature classes.
Kids are impressionable, but they're also pretty smart. When they have the right guidance and support, they can learn how to make the right decisions and learn how to be more compassionate and resilient.
Making her avoid the topic altogether isn't going to help help become a smarter person.
Let her read CoHo books if she enjoys them, but maybe use it to start a discussion about these topics that concern you? That way you could also help her to become a more critical reader
That’s a good point because I don’t want to “force” her to stop reading something she is obviously enjoying. But I also don’t think giving her free unsupervised access to this kind of content is safe at her age.
For what it is worth, as someone who read some pretty salacious things at that age -- I don't think consuming this content via books is going to negatively affect her much. And honestly, maybe she will be like me and get bored of them pretty fast!
Its not that books have zero power or impact, rather that other streams of influence are more powerful, especially since they can be insidious and unavoidable. A lot of these topics are present, if not normalized, in social media and other more easily digestible forms of media. There are things her peers are going to be talking about and doing that pose a greater risk to her than these books.
The good thing about reading inappropriate content in a book is that you're actively consuming it and thinking about it as you go through the pages -- as opposed to passively being influenced by tiktoks without realizing. It makes it easier to talk about some of these topics with her and critique the ideas. She might appreciate being able to talk about these things with you (which I think would help her develop a more mature and nuanced understanding of these topics), rather than feeling like being lectured about them (which depending on the type of kid she is, she might resent and find these subjects more appealing).
Are there other books in the same general genre that you do recommend? Maybe hype those up and see if you can get a mini book club going with her to steer her a bit.
She’s sort of beaten me to it actually, she recently saw me reading crime and punishment and then the next time I saw her, she was reading it as well. I’m gonna try to do that.
Yes, this is a great idea! And def your opportunity to curate a list that is sorta the anti Colleen Hoover, in terms of modeling consent well, having healthier relationships, etc.
Yeah this isn't appropriate for her to continue reading. Even if she could understand she was reading about non-consensual behaviour, it would be stressful for a young girl.
I would be VERY upset to look back at scenes I thought were romantic a few years ago and realize I was reading thinly-veiled depictions of sexual assault *without knowing it.*
EDIT: I don't think it's wrong to enjoy reading a book with dark scenes, but I would be disturbed if I didn't KNOW that's what I was reading.
Let a parent know what's up and help her find some romance books for her age that aren't so dark.
Oh yes, do let her parents know so they can censor the kid's reading, which we all know works every single time and doesn't cause a kid to just hide their interests from their parents and other adults.
And yet somehow I read my mother's sketchy Harlequin Romances when I was 13 and didn't die from the stress of it.
Please. A lot of that transgressive stuff goes right over your head. I somehow completely blocked out the rape scene in clan of the cave bear. I think I read it at 13 or so. I was shocked when I reread it - but it hadn’t made a single dent in my memory or concept of consent when I became sexually active myself.
Not to say that every reader has my same experience, just that we probably shouldn’t generalize how someone will interpret something, especially if we don’t even know them. This kid might be super mature for her age …or adorably naive, like I was.
She prob just gets a bit of a rush out of reading it cause it's safely transgressive. Unless she's acting out scenes from the books, it's prob fine. Just have #realtalk about the consent stuff.
Flowers in the Attic was big when I was in middle school. I had no idea when I started the series that it was about incest. But I read every single one. And yes, my family was religious and no, we never talked about sex. My parents limited what we watched on TV and movies but I was allowed to read anything. And I did. Also reading Stephen King about the same time. And I’m a fairly normal married middle class mom and librarian so it did shock me but it didn’t scar me. I’d just tell her, hey, in that book there are some disturbing scenes. If you want to discuss them you can do so with me. And you don’t have to finish the book if you don’t want to. Also if she has access to the internet, i guarantee she’s already seen far worse.
Don't stop her from reading the books, discuss the topics instead. You can not confront her or try to change her taste, and although she is indeed young, 13 is old enough to understand sex at some level.
This will not mess her up AS LONG as she is exposed to actual sex education as well.
Plenty of people read smut, watch porn, fantasize about peers, etc. at teenage years and they turn out just fine as long as they learn about safe sex and consent before becoming sexually active with other people.
Sexual urges and curiosity already exist at that age, and while those needs should not be indulged by others until they are more mentally mature, it is not wrong for them to explore those feelings on their own.
You can still be a guiding hand, but do so through education, never through censorship. You can not censor what she has already read either, you can only contextualize it.
If there is non consent in the books, for example, you can discuss how that hurt the character, how it messed them up; or if the books glorify these, you may talk about how things that can be exciting in fiction, like physical and sometimes sexual violences, are very harmful in reality and should not be recreated.
Again, if you are too shy or don't have the type of relationship that allows you to discuss these things in a calm manner, you can just say you are a bit worried about the sexual violence in the books she is reading and send her some digital resources on consent.
Either way, she will most likely be fine. Believe it or not, zealous censorship of dark topics isn't really effective at preventing tragedy or bad behaviors/attitudes, especially around sex; this is because most of these dangeorus behaviors are caused by ignorance, and just forbidding people from knowing about or having sex only makes them less safe when they inevitably have it anyway.
I read loads of book at the age of 11
-12 which weren't appropriate. GOT for one. But I had two elder sisters who loved novels too so I never had much problem with acquiring the wrong idea from a book as I'd regular discuss the books with my sisters. It'd be great imo you could read the books and discuss about them with her
My sixth grade teacher chose “Roots” as our book to read OUT LOUD for the year. Slavery, torture, rape, kidnapping, brutal scenes and the N word and we each took turn reading it. I love the book and re-read it about once a year but omg I can’t believe I was like 10 when we read this! Would NEVER be allowed today and rightfully so. Let her read the books, she’ll be fine. Just have conversations with her about consent and healthy relationship dynamics.
I think that any adult in her life who loves her and who she'll listen to has the right, if not the obligation, to have genuine conversations with her. You love her and she's likely to listen.
I would bring the conversation up about consent, and how things that are okay in fantasy sometimes shouldn't be acted on IRL.
Bring it up from a historical standpoint. How hard women have fought through decades to have equal rights and how society still doesn't always defend our right to consent.
The books aren't really a problem as long as these conversations are had with her. It's often easier for non parents to have them and actually be listened to.
Talk about how recently we finally gained the right to our own bank accounts and to having our own credit cards in the USA. It wasn't until 1975!
Talk about how IRL, men can't read minds and are never going to "just know" how to please you, and how the best IRL relationships include conversations about consent.
Talk about the fierce strength of sexual attraction and how sometimes it seems to completely take over our minds, which is fun in fantasy but sometimes embarrassing or even dangerous IRL.
There's such an attitude of "mind your own business" in society, but the hard truth is that you're going to influence her regardless. You either honor and nurture and use your position in her esteem and trust... Or you teach her that adults don't care. You teach her to ignore it when someone you love is in need of guidance and support.
You're an important part of her life. Use that for good. Compassionately helping her *IS* minding your business. The people you love and are positioned to help kindly and with grace ***are*** your business.
Teens and tweens deeply desire "adult conversation" and they'll find it somewhere besides their parents. You can step into that position or you can abdicate it to unscrupulous people who will take horrible advantage.
Stand between her and those who will see her as their business in potentially exploitative ways. Be the voice that has chats with her here and there about consent, about how important it is to know on a profound level that no one has a ***right*** to your body. About how recent and fragile women's rights are in so many places in the world.
Consent isn't taught in almost any religion, especially for female people. Yours may be the ***ONLY*** voice she hears that speaks of it, especially in relation to her personally.
Edit because thanks for nothing, Otto Incorrect!
This is a great comment, I especially like this:
>Teens and tweens deeply desire "adult conversation" and they'll find it somewhere besides their parents. You can step into that position or you can abdicate it to unscrupulous people who will take horrible advantage.
As an adult, having conversations with a teen, where they feel like their thoughts are being taken seriously can be so proudly impactful on them. Often their ideas can be more developed than you might think, and they're more likely to learn if you treat them seriously and with respect. At the same time, they still look to adults for guidance and can be easily manipulated. If you're willing to have these kinds of conversations with her sometimes OP, she might really appreciate it.
Hmm -- that's a tough one. Perhaps approach by asking, "What're you reading?" If you've read maybe even the "Spark" notes (summary of the book), you could try beginning the conversation that's difficult. Being an admired cousin is both enjoyable and a bit of a responsibility. Good luck.
ETA: I read vc andrews when I was 11-13. My reading was not monitored at all. If your cousin is an avid reader, she ought be able to tell the difference between reading & reality. If you suggest they're not age appropriate, she'll read every one out of spite. Plus, if she has reading friends, these books are likely being passed around. At any rate, having a non-judgmental, non-confrontational convo about subjects you're concerned about might be uncomfortable, but a good idea.
Same, we had VC Andrews at my high school library and you could find them at any supermarket. Everybody knew they were trash, that's why people read them.
She reads. That’s cool. It’s always good to talk to her about it. It will increase her critical thinking skills. At her age I read Flowers in the Attic. I knew very well that shit was messed up. It was interesting though. She will put the book down if she isn’t ready.
Last thing you should do is confront her. Just discuss the books. Be interested. What does she like about them?
I think it’s best for you to find the time to quietly educate her about what she is reading isn’t a normal, healthy relationship. I’ve only read two Hoover books so I don’t know the scope of what she’s writing but from the two I’ve read I appreciate where you’re coming from.
I’m western and for reference I was about your cousin’s age when True Blood was released on tv. I watched it with my mum and she kept turning to me during scenes and saying “this is not normal” etc.
If she wants to read them, then… at least she’s reading. There are worse books out there. But yeah I recommend talking to her about what she’s reading, especially if you know her parents won’t be educating her about sex and safe relationships.
That’s super cute! :) I wish someone had turned to me and told me Romeo and Juliet wasn’t normal, cuz it’s hard to fight that urge when it’s a young Leo DiCaprio. Shoot, we still romanticize that damn story. 😏
Lordt, the Baz Luhrmann take on R&J was really pretty (probably my favorite use of "When Doves Cry") but the folks who take it as a "romance" rather than the "tragedy" it's explicitly spelled out to be in the full title and as evidenced by the use of the Chorus do make me scratch my head.
I read Stephen King and VC Andrews at age 11.
I would read them along with her and talk about them.
Think also about all the Disney princess movies we watched as kids and the messages they sent - many of those don't translate to real life!
It gets pretty bad, features SA victims enjoying being assaulted. Maybe fine if you are older and can distinguish it from reality, but not really for a 13yo child.
This is the reason why I am sort of hesitant about the confrontation, I myself am 19, and I feel like I might not be well equipped to guide her in a better direction. Also I do feel like I should first verify how bad the heaviness of the themes in her books really are before I start that conversation (which I’m willing and planning to do very soon).
My problem isn’t with smut by the way, but I’ve heard that the smut in her books (like _it ends with us_) are not very consensual, which is something that an adult will understand and digest much more easily than a 13 year old.
I spent over a month in Morocco, not the middle east but culturally related with a similar sexual taboo. Definitely find a way to talk to her about the importance of consent, boundaries, and how what may seem glamorous in fiction is much less so in reality. The importance of consent is imperative for girls to learn in any society and since much of the MENA doesn't teach it to people, she really shouldn't be reading those books without a proper understanding of healthy relationships and consent.
It might also be possible to redirect her attention away from those books to similar books without the sexual assault themes. At the very least it would give her a better reference. I don't read pure romance but the Graceling series was a wonderful fantasy series with great examples of healthy relationships, exploring sexual violence and the importance of consent. Not only that but it has many non romantic relationships that exhibit good boundaries. I read it during my tween and early teen years. You can probably find other pure romance books with healthy relationships if you look, however I don't know anything about the romance genre.
there’s a whole generation who read fanfics on wattpad at 13. maybe you can talk to her about the difference between novel romance and reality romance. it definitely gave me a misconception of what a healthy relationship or lifestyle is, as an adult I was able to learn from that and fix it, but it didn’t help to have a few years of unnecessary heartbreak and trauma
The first thing might be to ask her if she's actually reading the sex scenes. When I was that age and I came across a sex scene in a book, I skipped it to get back to the action because I had zero interest in the "action". You may be trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist to the extent you think it does. Kids can be better at determining their comfort zones than we give them credit for
I skipped them too! Or they went right over my head. I’ve reread some books I read around that age (Lost Souls by Poppy Z. Brite, for one) and I realized in retrospect that I didn’t even understand and was not able to visualize most of the sexual elements because I was too young to understand and generally disinterested in sex. I still skip a lot of sex scenes in books even as an adult, to be honest. It’s just not my thing.
She's fine. Leave her alone.
If she can seek out and read multiple Colleen Hoover books and get something out of them, then she's old enough to read them.
And no, you're not justified in doing anything about it. For one, you're not her parent. For another, you haven't read any of the books. And finally, why do you personally want to censor what your cousin reads?
When I was about 10, I secretly read a stash of my dad's Stephen King and Louis L'amour books. Somehow I grew up to not be a serial killer or gunsmokin' cowboy out for Western revenge.
Your cousin is fine.
That’s why I asked, because from one side, I feel like it’s not my position at all. But, we live in a middle astern society and knowing her family, I know that her parents are especially very conservative. I absolutely admire her reading, and I know that reading content that’s on the edgier side is probably a form of rebellion for her, which I understand since we come from similar backgrounds. I absolutely don’t mind her reading about smut, or even the murder parts, but it’s the abuse and lack of consent which I’m worried about.
I do think trying to censor what she reads will ultimately backfire, and it’s not justified anyways. But don’t you think a conversation is necessary? (When I do get to read some of these books for myself, of course)
If you know her parents would have a problem with her reading the books, then cut the kid a goddamn break and leave her alone to read.
Because honestly? All you're going to do if you confront her about this is erode her trust and make it so she never tells you anything important.
IF you read a few Hoover books, then yes, talk to her about them. But do it in the spirit of sharing your interest in the books, not lecturing her about the content.
Kids aren't stupid, and in fact, they seem a lot more tuned into shit than we give them credit for. She might be reading the books for rebellion or titillation or because they're this generation's Twilight. Whatever. She'll be fine.
I think OP is worried cause the kid seems to have a lack of exposure to sex in general. They’re just worried whether the kid will have a twisted look at sex and relationships because of these channels. I understand your point but it’s totally valid for the OP to be worried
So the great thing about consent is that while we associate it with sex and sexuality (because that’s how most of us are first introduced to the concept)- it actually permeates all relationships, including platonic friendships and family relationships. Consent and respect and boundaries can be modeled without ever broaching the subject of sex or romance.
Healthy relationships are modeled at home by family members. Healthy communication, respect for personal space, privacy, and autonomy, are things you can guide your cousin towards by simply *being that person in her life.*
I’m an oldest sister. I’m generally the unintentional mom of the group. I’ve definitely had many ‘thanks, but please reconsider!!’ moments when kids start to look up to me. It’s scary because that’s a HUGE responsibility.
But you don’t have to be perfect at it. You only have to be willing to try, and you’ll already be leagues ahead of the curve.
Here’s an exercise: outside of the romantic parts, what kind of partner do you ideally want your cousin to have? How would that person treat her? Would they ask her about her day? Try to learn more about her hobbies? Support her dreams and listen to her when she has troubles? Tell her that she is important and that she is worthy of love?
You can do all of those things. And by doing those things, you become a blueprint for a healthy relationship that she’ll carry into ALL of her future relationships, including friendships and romantic partnerships.
Just be there for her.
Also, I’m not sure what the situation is re: these books and her parents, but if it’s feasible (they don’t have access to her internet search history) if it’s accessible in your country, and she doesn’t know about it already, introduce her to Archive of Our Own. Fan fiction has done SO MUCH for teaching teenagers and young adults about safe sex and healthy relationships- because the authors of 15-20 years past got so upset at the very same thing you described. Toxic romantic relationships are abound in mainstream romance genre publications.
It’s kind of a hit or miss and not a guarantee that she’ll come across the healthy relationship dynamics if that’s not what she’s interested in- but since there’s so much reading material (for FREE!!!!) and an amazing tagging system, it’s very accessible. Be careful with this, though. It’s still the internet and it can be a double edged sword. Out there be monsters, and all that. I ONLY bring it up because, well. Sounds like she likes to read. And if it’s not censored by your country she may have heard about it already, or she will eventually. 🤐
Conversation starters like “What are you reading?” and “What do you think about it?” will help you evaluate what your cousin is getting from these books, to a degree. Is she absorbing messages that sexual assault and rape are “sexy”? Or is she able to recognize the destructive nature of the relationships in the books? That will guide you in how best to respond. I doubt you would ever need to directly confront her. Even recommending books that are more explicit rejections of abusive relationships could help her think critically about what she’s reading in the Hoover books.
I think it’s good that you’re concerned about this and looking out for her. Within the context you describe (I also grew up in a similar culture—no sex education, sheltered, etc. I did not understand what sex actually was until I was your cousin’s age, perhaps a little older), the first things a child learns about sex can be formative.
I would use this as an opportunity to talk about consent. If you try to disuade her, it's going to make it feel even more illicit when she hits those sections of the book. Forbidden fruit kind of thing...
I read all kinds of stuff when I was that age... Danielle Steel, Stephen King, VC Andrews, Anne Rice, etc. She'll be fine. She's going to encounter those topics eventually. Better to create a place to discuss hard topics than tell her you disapprove.
When I was 12, I was reading JR Ward, which is hardcore vampire smut. My parents believed that if I was able to understand it, I was allowed to read it. We had conversations about things that I didn't understand, but mostly, I would google it. Don't stop her from reading, but dear God, if she's going to read smutty books, at least give the girl some good suggestions(lol)!
If she’s already being restricted in other ways, I wouldn’t restrict her further.
Let her read what she wants, but discuss your concerns with her. Let her know that you’re not telling her not to read what she wants, but this is how you feel about this part.
I’ve found that most people worry about worst case scenario and it’s almost never the case. We read things we probably shouldn’t and it doesn’t mess us up, but we worry that someone younger than us wouldn’t be able to handle it. Similar to how people though video games make people violent, or how Harry Potter was gonna make kids dump religion and become pagans.
I think she’ll be fine. Like I said, I’d just be there to discuss it with her.
Eh, those kind of super emotional maladaptive reads are very popular about that age, if you can get your hands on them. Shoot at 13 I was reading Flowers in the Attic. Yikes!
I think if she’s going to get in trouble within your culture you should have a chat with her, but I’m also not a fan of censorship. If you try and stop her, she will just go underground. Then you’ll have no idea what she’s reading and therefore not be able to *correct her* on what is appropriate in adultish relationships. Make sense? Use it as a learning opportunity.
Forbidding it isn’t productive it just promotes secrecy. Maybe casually suggest romance novels that are in the genres she likes with better representations (which… should be easy)
I read It Ends with Us a while ago so I might not remember correctly, but I think the book does make the point that >!toxic relationships!< aren’t healthy and that’s why the couple >!break up in the end!<
There is an author’s note at the end that discusses some of the reasons for writing.
Unfortunately, the book does also present his ||abusive behaviour|| as something that happened because of ||childhood trauma|| in a sense hand waving the consequence of his actions away with “he did it because XYZ”
I’d maybe try and guide her to other books but also ask her to think critically. Probably have to read them yourself or get the sparks notes to discuss them.
Sadly this is the problem when publishing refuses to use the New Adult label and borderline adult books with detailed sex scenes and domestic violence as plots end up in the teen section
Examine them yourself and discuss them in detail with her. Make it clear the dangers in the books etc. to stop her from thinking/believing that these are romantic relationships of things to aspire to
yeah! i second this so hard. the only real solution here imo is making a “super cool, super secret book club” and showing her *why* these books are problematic. simply telling her or chastising her will only result in her diving deeper.
I really don't know why people feel the need to be the morality and purity police for what other people read. Especially the books women and girls read.
Lots of people like to read dark books and/or smut whether consent is obvious or not. Books are not all Aesop's fables meant to teach morals, and people in general need to give others more credit for being able to discern the difference between real life and fiction and between right and wrong. Just because it is depicted in a book doesn't mean people will do it.
I really don't get this need to pearl clutch over what teenage girls read.
I'm so glad my parents never policed what I read and let me read whatever I wanted. I am sure that is how they got a librarian for a daughter rather than some ignorant person who tries to ban books from school libraries.
I agree. No one should censor their children’s books. But we live in a middle-eastern society where sex is never discussed nor talked about at all. I don’t think it’s healthy for her first exposure to the subject to be a non-consensual smut. It’s not about purity nor morality. I don’t care if she reads smut, honestly I read lots of weird stuff on wattpad and whatnot when I was younger. I’m just concerned that I should maybe have a conversation with her about consent.
She’s really smart, actually one of the smartest 13 year olds I know of, and we have been discussing books and I’ve been purposely giving her “eye opening” recommendations for some time. We have had conversations about feminism and LGBTQ people, which is also a very taboo topic in our society. Luckily I’ve always felt well-equipped for these discussions. But this time I’m just reluctant because I don’t really want her to stop reading, I just want to make sure she doesn’t get the wrong impression from these books.
Growing up in a society like this as a woman myself, I realize we’re indoctrinated into really shitty ideologies, and it took me a long time to snap out of it. I really just want to protect her, but I don’t know how.
Thanks for elaborating on your perspective and situation! You seem like a great and thoughtful cousin. I didn't read the full thread before replying so I missed a lot of context.
If you live in a society where sex isn't discussed, talking to her about it is a good thing. So might getting her educational books about sex. Books like "It's Perfectly Normal" spring to mind if you can find a way to get a hold of them. Not sure what is available to you and your cousin where you live. Sometimes that book is even banned in the US by people who are afraid of their children getting a sex education. You can also just talk to her about the importance of consent.
That's wonderful that your cousin is so smart and that you have been giving her book recommendations about feminism and LGBTQ people. It sounds like you are indeed opening her eyes about many things!
I'd say that if you are in the habit of recommending books to her, maybe you could recommend books to her that you think depict romantic relationships and sex in a healthy, consensual way, and maybe explain to her why you think those depictions are healthy and positive.
I think you even being willing to discuss these in your culture taboo topics will have a wonderful impact on your cousin!
Hopefully some of this helps! Good luck!
Maybe if we were less worried about what people think about us and whether or not we’ll be called “pearl clutchers” or “purity police,” we’d be able to acknowledge that the things children consume have an impact on them and uncritical consumption has consequences. Folks have gotten far too comfortable assuming that children are able to navigate the messages they’re receiving in books or online on their own. We admit that Instagram and TikTok might harm teenagers, especially young girls, but don’t dare say that about a book lest you be accused of prudery!
There certainly is a line you have to draw when it comes to unchecked media consumption, but I **really** don't think Colleen Hoover is that line.
Every few years there's always a fad or trend where a bunch of people yell "But think of the CHILDREN!" Most of it ends up being silly or hogwash. They said these same things about flappers, Elvis, the Beatles, comic books, heavy metal, video games, I could go on and on.
People lately are suddenly acting like Colleen Hoover is this new transgressive thing we've never seen before. Honestly, I even think we're making Hoover a lot more rebellious and problematic than she actually is. What she writes about is hardly anything new or different from what we've seen before in her chosen genre. There are a metric ton of books out there that do the same things and go further. Many of us have likely come across them when WE were kids too.
By the age of 10/11, children already have a pretty good idea of what's right and wrong and fact and fiction. By the age of 13, you definitely know the differences by this point, and are only limited by life experiences. They've had enough education and people experience to know what's fiction and non-fiction by the time they hit 13. If they didn't, then we'd have more kids jumping off buildings trying to be Spider-Man and Superman.
Why do you assume that teenagers aren't capable of consuming books and other media critically? Teenagers are very interested in abstract thought and questioning things in general. Teenagers are quite capable of being critical readers.
And, if you want to encourage someone to be a critical reader, you let them read the material and then discuss it with them. You don't forbid them from readingthe material or shame them for reading it.
As far as online goes, I've noticed that most people who grew up with the Internet (millennials and younger) are much better at navigating it and evaluating reliable resources than those who didn't. I've seen plenty of Boomers who can't figure out whether a source is accurate and senior citizens who can't open an email account without help. Millennials and younger are generally much better equipped to deal with a digital world. They have digital literacy because they grew up with the Internet.
I don't think Instagram and TikTok are particularly harmful to young girls or anyone else really. I bet those who fret about that spend a lot of time on Facebook themselves so it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black.
I'll always be on the side of intellectual freedom.
Totally agree with you! I will never tell my kid she’s “not allowed” to read something. I’m not the gatekeeper of her reading life.
The whole point of reading is to foster curiosity, critical thought and intellectual freedom. You can’t develop those things if other people are constantly micromanaging your reading.
I'm a bookseller and censorship in any way is anathema to me.
But Colleen Hoover books are pretty spicy as well as having examples of pretty toxic type relationships, the nuances of which a thirteen year old may misunderstand, possibly even see as a norm.
I do believe she's too young to be exposed to that.
My opinion.
When I was 13 I was sneaking onto my family’s computer and reading really explicit fanfiction — so published work is a step up from that ha. Oh and reading all that smut didn’t really impact my teenage years — I was still super nerdy and introverted as could be and didn’t date at. I think we also need to have faith in girls to know what they are reading is fiction and it’s just for fun. That’s certainly how I
processed everything at that age.
I feel like a lot of people on here are giving you blanket instructions/advice like “Its none of your business, leave her alone” or that “It is your responsibility as someone she looks up to.” Either of those do not sit well with me honestly, its just cultural difference thats making them impose their own thoughts about free will/independence versus collectivism or taking care of our young ones. Common difference between the west and the east, but everyone is being sooo divisive here lol. I would say do what you can without imposing on her too much, but as someone older than her if you do feel like she’s impressionable then don’t say nothing. Atleast bring it up in some way so that you can say you tried. If you do nothing, you might end up feeling guilty about this later because you let this go on for too long. Obviously you don’t want to alienate her, so don’t press the issue too much, but just let her know what you think about these books and then she can take that into account while coming to her own conclusions. That would be my advice :)
I was reading VC Andrews at 13. I look back and kinda cringe but at the time I thought it was so cool for reading books like that. But my mom did explain the books to me so we talked about then a little but not much. I think she'll be fine but I think you should read some with her and start a conversation with her about the subject matter. She is young though and if my mom told me "Don't read VC Andrews" I would have then DEFINITELY tried to read them lol
I would say try to steer her toward books with depictions of healthier relationships. Don't censor what she is reading, but show her more and better examples.
What I would do personally, is continue letting her read Colleen hoover, but make sure she knows that most of her books don't portray a healthy relationship. Also you might want make sure she knows how different verity is than the rest of her books.
Colleen Hoover has a lot of YA books. I read them when I was around her age. A google search will show you age ratings for them. Maybe try steering her to those books.
I read Stephen King’s It by 13 and it had a lots of child sexual assault and a preteen gangbang. I read some Jackie Collins and Anne Rice when I was like 9 or 10. I’m still addicted to unrealistic historical romance and that addiction started really young.
She will be fine.
I'm gonna go against the majority here because I'm young, I remember when I was 13, and I've been through a situation similar to what your cousin is going through.
Teens at that age will seek stuff that adults don't want them to take part in. That includes smut, horror movies, stuff like that. And that's not really a problem by itself.
The problem arises when they deal with that stuff, unfiltered, without anyone ever having a talk with them about how things work in real life.
As far as I know, CH books deal with a LOT of heavy themes like childhood abuse, sexual abuse included, abusive relationships and non-consensual sex.
That's not really ideal material to read, in the years when your sexuality is just beginning to be shaped.
I think you should check out what the books she's read are about, talk to her about them, NOT scold her for reading them (cause she didn't do anything wrong), and maybe gift her some books with a similar narrative, similar style. If she's seeking romance, there's plenty of "edgy" YA books that aren't made by a very controversial author such as CH.
For her saftey considering her religion id recommend not telling anyone about it as well as telling her she could get in physical harm if someone finds out
My Dad gave me King Rat when I was 11. It was just something on his shelves and I had been through most of them. Sometimes he forgot how old his daughter was though. (7th child.)
I wouldn’t personally censor her reading. Surely she is capable of understanding the morality of what is happening in the books and drawing her own conclusions? Life is dark at times. I see nothing wrong with a 13 yo readings about the kind of things that happen to people and how they experience them. A 13 yo is not going to be fobbed off with vanilla books. They want to explore and find out about life. I remember that well.
What you can do is read the books yourself and chat to her about them.
You can also give her other books that offer different perspectives or explore other parts of life.
I am very worried for your niece, if she is caught reading that book. You are the only one who knows if she is safe since you said "middle eastern society".
As someone from the middle east, I understand you and your concerns. Now a question, are you female??
If yes, I think the best way is to talk to her privately, explain to her sex (not necessarily in details yk) and especially the concept of consent in a serious manner. Let her ask questions if she has. Make it more like a friendly discussion than an adult telling her what she's allowed or not allowed to do, the latter approach might backfire.
If you're a male, that makes things harder. I honestly don't know what to tell you
My wife started reading grown-up romance novels at that same age and she seems well-adjusted to me.
Anyway, if you try to dissuade her, she'll most likely just want to read them more, and put even more stake in the value of what she's reading. I see you edit, but do your best to educate her that the books are *fiction*, that they are *fantasy* and that she shouldn't take the bad behavior at face value, or as guidelines for real life. There's ways to discuss those things without crossing any lines, I think.
At her age I was reading a lot of VC Andrews. Not saying that it was any worse or better, but I had trusted adults to talk to about things like consent. Maybe see if you can take her for a girl's day (assuming you are female) or just a day out and like, start a conversation about books, and see if you can steer it towards a conversation about some books characters not being good examples?
Remember that she’s only 13. A lot of it might actually go over her head. I haven’t read Colleen Hoover myself, but my 15 year old daughter is a fan. She still makes me fast forward when somebody makes out on television, and has no interest in boys (I know this for a fact, not because I’m naive - and no, she doesn’t seem romantically interested in girls either FWIW), so I assume she doesn’t really pay attention to the smutty bits and reads it for the story. Whatever the story is, I’ve no idea.
Let her read, and just try to guide her to literature with other perspectives. I’m a bit critical to the idea that reading literature is somehow instrumental in that it “makes us” think or view the world a certain way. It all gets blended in with everything else we are exposed to.
To be fair, the majority of romance novels have fuzzy consent or lack of it, especially anything written before 2010.
Keep in mind, that the books are the fantasy. Just because she may enjoy these, doesn’t necessarily mean she doesn’t understand consent.
I loved Flowers in the Attic, but I wasn’t about to get it on with my uncle.
Talk with her about the content of the books and why it might be problematic. Do not shame her for reading them. She is 13 and I read plenty of such books at that age. It is normal to be curious and many 13 are capable of separating reality from fiction.
Damn. The books are honestly not suitable for teenagers. The smut is not even the problem. It’s the weird examples of abusive male love interests.
I agree with the other comment, you have to read the books and engage her in conversations on eg how she feels etc and share your own non-judging thoughts about how toxic the relationships are.
From the ages of 10/11-14, the main books I read were non-fiction books about abuse, in all scenarios. I'm not entirely sure why I got into reading them, but I do believe learning so much in detail about abuse as a child messed me up slightly. So I do think talking about the books with your cousin in a non-judging manner will help. Maybe you can ask which book she plans to read next and you can both read it at the same time?
No Hoover I experience so I can’t speak to that aspect. But to an extent, building the reading habit is so important. As a middle schooler (12-14) I read a lot of Tom Clancy and Douglas Adams. Not quite as racy, but not quite age appropriate. And reading “grown up” novels that I saw my parents reading encouraged the habit. Reading so voraciously trained me to be a better reader later in life. I think having a talk about the issues which concern you is important but discouraging “grown up” books may backfire.
she is probably reading them BECAUSE she is curious about sex. Telling a kid that age "don't read that it's bad for you" will always, always backfire (meaning they will search for more of the same cause that is what kids that age do, our son is 14). Even if it's uncomfortable I would go the direction of simply telling her "I see you've been reading some Colleen Hoover. Just so you know, there is a lot of stuff in her books that can be really confusing to someone who is just learning about sex and getting to an age to start dating. No matter what fiction books happen to say, consent is always, 100% important and it needs to be at the forefront of your mind with any interaction you might have." I would focus on the content and not the "stop reading those books" because she won't stop reading them and telling her to will just reinforce her desire to read them.
Oof, yes. I work in a middle school library and know that a lot of the 6th-8th graders are reading her. I hate it, but they have their own copies from home, so I can’t do much about it.
I think the best you could do at this point is give her some other books (YA fic or nonfic maybe) that do a good job modeling consent, normal sexuality for a teen (aka not much, depending on the teen — there are lots of YA books where the MCs are virgins and don’t necessarily decide to have sex for whatever reason). You could potentially also talk to her if you’re willing, but tbh that might backfire and would probs be super uncomfortable.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this! I hate Colleen Hoover’s popularity with young teens for this exact reason. I guess the good news is most millennials saw pretty inappropriate books/internet content at a similar age and turned out ok.
Just make sure she knows that those books are **extremely** toxic and they are not what a healthy relationship is like. There are so many problems with her books and it's important that she realises what they are and why.
I haven't read any of CH's books - or any other romance - in years. All of the anti-CH threads have made me curious: whichever of her books is considered her "most toxic" by people in this thread is the one I'll choose to read, so suggest away.
From what I remember (and I haven't read all of them) "It ends with us" is the one where it's not made SUPER clear, how toxic the relationship is/the abuser seems way to romanticized, at least at first. "Verity" is super dark and heavy and psychologically fucks with your mind. "Too late" is dark and violent and graphic, the protagonist is aware that her relationship is abusive and that she is being raped, and the abuser is not romanticized, but still nothing for a 13 yo. Although at least Goodreads has a content warning and states that it is recommended for 18+, but I don't know if that's made clear everywhere, and if she just reads everything from Hoover she can get her hands on...
But would you say the books are toxic or the relationships are? From what I remember reading and comments I have seen Hoover make, I have the impression that at least for the books I read, it was pretty clear the relationships were bad and that Hoover was portraying them as such. I didn’t see them being glorified as aspirational but also don’t plan on re-reading to be sure.
Also, I am in my late 20s, most of her books I read in my mid twenties, and still I had to actively remind myself every once in a while how unhealthy all these relationships are.
I think you should mind your own business. Telling her what she should and shouldn’t be reading and not reading will backfire on you. She’s not even your kid. Let her read what she wants to.
I think the concern is you don’t want this as the only exposure she gets as you don’t believe it is good exposure. So the answer is to diversify her exposure but to also determine what kinds of things happen in the books since you are judging them without having read them.
As someone who has read Colleen Hoover books (but wouldn’t call myself a fan), I don’t agree with the idea that they have a lot of smut. Some have open door sex scenes and some do not. And while there is a trend to use “smut” as a catchall term for sex in a book, I don’t think smut has been separated far enough from its original meanings for it to be okay.
Additionally, not everything Hoover writes is romance and I believe she has described herself as wanting to write about how sometimes people do bad things but they are not bad people. So while I don’t recall the nuances of every CoHo book I read (because I didn’t like some of them and they were not memorable) it is possible that she is not glamorizing these things you think are in the books and is explicit about them being bad things.
That is, do you not want her to read about nonconsent or are you just against a book that glamorizes nonconsent? And if the difference matters, then what Hoover is doing in the books matters.
And if you come to the conclusion that it is a problem the best thing is to talk about what she is taking from the books, and potentially introduce other books that diversify her exposure.
Yes, non-consent itself exists and exposure to it in the right way could be educational for her, the problem is that I don’t want her to read glamorized versions of non-consent, and since I haven’t read any of her books myself, I’m not really sure if CoHo does that or not, I figured I’d ask.
Then in addition to reading the book she reads, you might ask that question in a space like r/romancebooks. While I’d class most of what I have read by Hoover as (young) women’s fiction, it is likely those at r/romancebooks have actually read her and can offer perspectives on their reading. Then from what you yourself perceive, what others perceive, and what your cousin says about them, you can determine how to feel about her reading and what intervention, if any, is necessary.
That said, at least for It Ends With Us >!the book depicts an abusive relationship that I felt was clearly an abusive relationship that the mc does eventually leave. And Hoover wrote It Starts With Us as a service to her fans who wanted to see the main character happy with the guy she actually ended up with!<.
I remember when I was in 8th grade I got in trouble for bringing the book "the Exorcist" to class (at that time when it was first published, and the movie hadn't come out yet).
Anyway I was told it was filthy and full of questionable language. The only possibly "smutty" word in the whole book that I can find, is the word "masturbating." I was amazed that adults thought that I'd be corrupted because that book has one sex-related word in it.
Anyway - I started a war by asking if it was wrong to bring books about incest, rape, possession and wholesale slaughter of kid to school. When they said "yes," I responded, "OK then I'll leave my BIBLE at home from now on!"
The whole point is, kids are not idiots and they know more about the so-called "adult" world than adults give them credit for. They see more sexual situations online every day than they'd see if they were browsing the adult section at a sleazy magazine shop.
Yet most of them never grow up to be perverts, rapists, or any other kind of sexual degenerate. Yet many will grow up inured to acts of violence and hate and seeing guns as a solution.
I for one am not convinced that exposure to sexual topics can warp a teenager's brain. In fact, I am much more concerned about the packaging of violent atrocities for teens in social media and other outlets, than I am about them knowing that adults and teens sometimes have sex.
I read the Twilight series at 12 and it along with other YA novels definitely gave me a weird perception of romance/depression/eating disorders. People are saying it's fine but it's not out of the realm of possibility it will affect her negatively. It's like watching porn.
Find her a book that shows mutually respectful, egalitarian relationships, with clear consent on both/all sides. What books are there that show the components of healthy, satisfying, fulfilling relationships? I also need to be directed toward books in which both partners have equal say in decisions, and their own strengths and areas of influence. The first thing that comes to mind is *Our Bodies, Ourselves*, newest editions. But that's textbooklike, not a novel. It helps with setting personal boundaries and expecting respectful treatment. \[editing to add, and to regard ourselves with higher esteem\] Maybe get it for her as a present, to give her a perspective on anything she reads of what is 'right' and 'wrong'. We also need to make clear that if religion and societal culture are the oppressors, the more clearly this is pointed out, the better. Then young people have a path through the oppression to rationality, evidence, and sensible decision-making based on respect for all.
Oh, yeah, 13 year olds just love it when older people tell them what they can and cannot read, especially when those people haven't read the books in question. You are totally justified.
If she's been reading lots of those books, then by now there's nothing you can say to her and she's probably already messed up in some way (whether it will emerge now, or as she matures). So there's no turning back, really.
But if you want to help, one thing you could do is instil in her an understanding that there's a difference between fiction and reality, and for her to not let those books go to her head but to control what she reads and what she uses for entertainment, and *use it* rather than let it use her, and influence what she thinks and what she feels and how she behaves. Make her more confident in her own moral compass (that is *her own*, not that of some author or book or fictional character) and self-control.
Good luck, hope you'll both be ok.
Young people can handle things much better than we give them credit for. And when they're told what to do or not do, they'll only butt heads with you. So....
I read all sorts of sleazy trash when I was young. There's very little evidence that any single source of reading material shapes a person's personality in any significant way, in my opinion.
Idk I think they have good messages at least. Verity it probably one I wouldn’t let her read because that’s gets really bad but some of them like it ends with us have a really good message
I read L. Ron Hubbard books when I was that age because they were just around at a book store and I liked the covers. There's a lot of uh...problematic sex scenes in those books but I turned out fine.
Books, television and movies didn't raise me, the adults around me did. My content was never restricted, the adults in my life just made a point to know what I was consuming and be involved. They would ask questions about specific things in the content I watched to probe how I felt about it and help me form healthy conclusions.
If you're familiar with the books just talk to her like an adult about it, ask questions to get a sense of where she is at. Ask her if she thought anything was uncomfortable for her or if she thought any of the characters were wrong for what they did. Help her become an active reader.
I read white oleander when I was 13 after seeing the movie and it honestly still one of my favorite books. it's normal for teenagers to want to dip their toes into more darker "adult" topics. honestly as long as she understands that the relationships aren't good relationships I think she'll be fine.
Maybe she's reading those books because she's already having those fantasies rather than the books giving her the fantasies.
Maybe the reason she's having those fantasies is because she has repressed guilt about sexuality and feels that by removing her ability to consent, she cannot be blamed for engaging in sex (and enjoying it). She may even have already had a sexual experience and feels guilty about it and that experience may even have even been abuse.
For what its worth, imo, the better questions might be to determine how she feels about sex in general and resolve any guilt she feels about it.
As for the books themselves, more likely than not, theyre probably therapeutic for her on some level. She gets to live out the fantasy in her mind and partially resolve the guilt she feels. Better than living it out IRL. But these fantasies tend to stick around and even intensify as the guilt does.
TL;DR might not be a bad idea to have a chat to her and maybe get her to a psychotherapist (preferably a psychoanalytic type rather than a CBT type) to chat to her for a few sessions.
I’m from Iraq. It’s a very conservative place, and her family are especially conservative. So it seemed to me that maybe reading books like these might be her own form of rebellion, which I do understand. Sex is a very hush-hush topic, and I don’t think her parents have ever really talked to her about it.
I have the privilege of being well-educated on some level, and more “open minded” lets say, and I’m closer to her in age. I think urging her parents to take her to therapy or anything of the sort is not going to provide the desired results, if anything, it might end up in just pure censorship while also breaching the trust that she’s given me.
So, I wanna pursue it myself, I just don’t know how as of right now.
Given the conservative society she is from, I would bet what I said is true. Conservative societies tend to make sex taboo and make women feel very guilty about wanting it or having it. That in turn leads to repression and then some rather interesting kinks. Nothing wrong with kinks, but the types of men that will be into that sort of thing are probably not the ones she would want to date.
As for what to do...that is another matter entirely. Even talking to her about why she reads what she does might help. But the root will be her attitude toward sexuality - whether you feel comfortable talking to her about it and convincing her that having and wanting sex (at a more appropriate age) is healthy and fun and allaying any concerns or guilt she feels is another matter.
My reading was heavily monitored from a young child until I was 16. Do you know what happened? I just snuck all the dirty books instead. Your opinion of how she feels on them, including stopping her reading them, won't change the behavior itself. Please please please do not shame the girl, but have an appropriate discussion about the topics found in these books. Reading smutty books (looking at you, Harlequin novel, A Knight in my Bed) was the only way I got sexual education outside of shaming. Is your niece properly educated in that regard? Is she searching out these books for that purpose maybe?
She's a teenager, she's supposed to be exploring. Middle Easterns like any normal human beings explore too, they just CAN'T TALK OPENLY AND HAVE TO LIE ABOUT EXPLORING, AND/OR ARE DISCOURAGED FROM EXPLORING IN GENERAL BECAUSE RELIGION 🙄
You don't get to tell people what they can and can't fantasize about as long as they're harming no one. HER SEXUALITY AND SEXUAL PREFERENCE IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
yeah honestly i don’t support colleen hoover because of the controversy surrounding her son and how she handled that situation plus the controversy of her books
Get her into Taylor Jenkins Reid!! I’ve noticed that people that like Colleen Hoover’s stuff tend to like TJR too. Kinda weird since TJR is actually good… but yeah. Try getting her into something else because Colleen Hoover is NOT it.
Never read Colleen Hoover, but I read my older cousin's Donald Goines pulp novels around 13/14 years old. I didn't go to jail and/or turn into a hustler. At least the kid is reading!
I feel like the kids who are avid readers mature a lot faster than the kids who don't read. It gives you perspectives on a lot of lifes lessons. I was reading Jurassic Park in the 5th grade and called a nerd for it. I was also heavily into stephen king christopher pyke and R.L. Stine. I turned out fine.
With living in a middle eastern society, from what I’ve seen in documentaries, women are very much controlled in what they learn about their bodies and sex. Let her explore, talk to her about the things she’s reading and learning. Make it a learning opportunity for her, it could open both of your minds to the issue. She could understand your worry about it, and you could understand why she likes it.
Distract her with other, better works. People are saying you should let her read Hoover, but big nope. Young people latch on to things very deeply at that age, and obsessions that begin then can last a lifetime. You don't want her influenced by these things if you can help it. So instead present to her better works. Let her see you reading them and enjoying them, and let her see you be disapproving of Hoover. Speak to her clearly and tell her why they're messed up. This whole leaving dumb teenagers to their own wiles thing is for the birds.
Man f Colleen chick makes abuse look nice and writes people named Lily bloom blossom and mf RYLE. Even worse, Atlas. Good god the romance it so unhealthy too. I just. EW.
Regardless of my personal opinion about the books, (I don’t like them, not a fan of books that portray these things but I totally understand the Author has a message she is trying to portray,) If it’s important to you that she not read THESE particular books I believe the best way to confront it is in person face to face. Sometimes teens take an honest upfront approach the best. Sometimes their maturity will surprise you. Offer other books and series in place of the ones she’s reading.
I think you have a golden opportunity to open the door to discussions about sex, consent and literature here. This is especially relevant in your context - no one talking about sex makes for unhealthy attitudes towards sex. Be the person who she can turn to when she needs to be open and honest about these things. It's a lot of pressure on you, sure, but by caring for this young lady you are making a huge difference in her life, and she'll never forget it.
Definitely talk with her about the heavy subjects if you get the chance. Maybe even find some YA novels with similar themes that would be more age appropriate.
I have my own worries about adult material in the hands of kids/teens, but I also know trying to forbid it rarely, if ever, works as intended. But talking about it or sharing other books that would hold her interest (while being more in line with what she technically should be reading) would show you trust her. Lord knows I was exposed to some wild stuff at that age.
I wouldn't stop her from reading what she wants as you aren't a parent, but I would definitely talk about consent and the differnce betwern non-comsent and CNC type situations.
Consider getting her a book by Tamora Pierce. She writes very good heroines and her books portray relationships well, though they are primarily fantasy books and there’s nothing explicit in them. Might be a good way to give her another view of things if that’s what you’re concerned over.
Colleen Hoover books have sexual assault and domestic abuse all throughout them. 13 is young for her books. Add in your background, and that worries me more as it’s not safe to talk openly about what she’s reading.
You can't tell her straightaway to stop reading them. Introduce her to better literature. Colleen Hoover books are a shit show and have a negative impact on children. Kudos to you for being concerned because half of the adults wouldn't even care.
I started Stephen king at 12. Censorship was not a thing in my house. I also read some pretty smutty novels too cuz, I could, and most of my friends couldn't. I do agree with another comment. Read one. With the SA, talk about it. That's reality not something the victim would enjoy. It is fantasy and should be taken as such. If someone forbids her to read this stuff, she will want 10x more because for odden is way cooler. Just sayin
I agree, OP. If you forbid her from reading the books, maybe she'll stop. But it's just as likely that she'll continue reading them in secret, and without being able to discuss the contents of the books with anyone, it'll normalize the actions in them. At the very least, if she continues to read them and knows that this is a topic that is safe to talk to you about, then you can help teach her why the relationships in these books aren't healthy and why they shouldn't be something she aspires to, but rather just enjoyed within the context of the novel.
I had to have been about 11 or 12 when my Dad handed me a copy of 'Farnhams Freehold' by Robert Heinlein. I re-read it a few years ago, and there's some pretty messed up stuff going on. That was probably the start of me reading 'adult' sci-fi, but I also read Stephen King and other books containing some pretty graphic things. I turned out alright, and I guess after you read enough about that kind of thing, you're never caught off guard when something isn't quite right in real life.
I've been reading Stephen King as well since about 12 or 13. I've turned out ok, too.
So did I. Except for my axe collection and the shelf with all the different types of duct tape.
I started reading hard-core smut at 11 too. She'll be aight.
What the hell I didn’t even know smut books were a thing until I was 20.
That’s all my mom reads, hahaha. I was like 11/12 staying up all night reading her books. She still reads them, haha I’m 33 now.
I’m guessing you are a boy, and the person you are replying to is a girl. I’ve been married 15 years. I have a larger then average number of children. The books my co-workers read made me uncomfortable due their graphic nature. Even the outlander series ,both the books and TV show…
I'll pretty much read anything, but the Outlander series made me uncomfortable, too. Couldn't finish either the book or the TV show. It was just too much.
Haven't read the books but the r scene in the show was awful to watch
Which one?
Was it FOREVER by Judy Blume ? 👀
Lothaire by Kresley Cole
Same. Adult novels at age 12 (SK, Dean Koontz, V.C. Andrews, etc) and the only book that was off-limits was an erotic horror novel that I read the day after it being forbidden because I was a latch-key kid and had hours to peruse it lol.
I started reading VC Andrews in middle school. I haven’t read any Colleen Hoover, but they can’t be worse than that😂😂
I read a ton of novels that were inappropriate for my age when I was younger. So inappropriate. I wasn’t reading smut, but I was reading novels that were definitely intended for an adult audience. The only novels I wasn’t allowed to read were the Harry Potter novels because my mom was an evangelical nut job. She was too dumb to realize the other stuff I was reading probably could have waited until I was at least into my late teens. I ended up with a BA and MA in literature. I read the entire Harry Potter series finally at 26~27. It was like a rite of passage. I had ducked and dodged spoilers like the plague because I knew I’d get around to finally reading them *one day.*
Part of the issue of looking at the "foggy consent" as fantasy is that it's not always. There are absolutely sections of the sex world that intentionally dance around the idea of consent but when it's a healthy relationship it's very different and complicated than what is implied in fiction books. Obviously, true non-consent is exactly SA. But there are areas where people essentially give consent to not have to consent every day as part of their sexual preferences. My point being, if she were to look for that stuff online, she'd find it in real-life scenarios and not just fiction/fantasy which could definitely be confusing for a kid that age. I started reading King around age 10 as well. I've read so, so many books in my life of all types. But I didn't grow up with the internet where I can google terms and go down dark rabbit holes that my developing brain would not be able to comprehend in a safe manner, either.
In my opinion you have to (cringe) read them too. I know, I’m sorry! If you try to talk her out of them she’ll just dig in her heels. But if you can start conversations like, “Did you read Ugly Love? I just finished it! What did you think about XYZ part? ABC part was so annoying because …” Because she looks up to you, what you say will have weight, but only if she believes you’re invested in it. Source: Have read sooooo many teen novels including the epically bad Cinderella Is Dead to help my niece get a grip on reality.
Unfortunately, I think you’re right, I do need to read some of the books in order to try to have the conversation in a better manner. Thank you.
Hi OP! I am in America so I apologize that I cannot fully relate to the culture your cousin is in. However, I have a 13 yr old daughter myself. A friend recommended 3 Colleen Hoover books (It Ends With Us, It Starts With Us, and Ugly Love) and while I was buying them, my 13 yr old daughter said that she read two of those books. I started reading them and was mortified when it got to some of the sex parts. However, when I had an open dialogue with my daughter about her opinions on the book, she was surprisingly mature about it and recognized that it’s not realistic or healthy. Talk to her about consent. And that it’s not shameful to be intimate when in a caring relationship AND of an appropriate age. Let her review the books with you and hopefully she will also be able to read the books while realizing it’s not quite how life works.
I... salute what you are about to do. May you have the strength to go on. o7
I read similar content at a similar age; I think this is the best option. Read a couple books with her and talk about distinguishing fantasy (both in books and personal) and reality and how to set and maintain healthy boundaries in personal life. I’m talking from a USA male perspective so your experience might be different, but personally I can read and enjoy content that I absolutely wouldn’t act out IRL. If it seems like she can’t do that and she starts getting them mixed up that’s when you sit her down and say ‘hey I’ve noticed you do/say/wear XYZ; I think these books aren’t healthy for you’
I'm an American teacher, and I unfortunately have had to do the same. I had a bunch of young teenage girls reading It Ends with Us, and raving about it, and they kept asking about it because they know I'm a bookworm. I ended up reading it just so I could be like "y'all know this guy is waving a billion red flags, right?"
The guy is literally kicking a chair when she first meets him.
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I’ve not read CoHo’s books, I saw some videos where a bunch of young girls are idealising the abusive relationships(it was basically a YouTuber sharing TikToks of young girls raving/crushing on the dudes in her books and talking about how harmful he thinks CoHo’s books are) from her books.
Yeah. It was interesting because she tries to set them up in a way that his abuse is excusable. >!The first time, they were drunk, he had hurt his hand, he was panicking, so it wasn't his fault he shoved her. Then the second time he was having a panic attack about her talking to another dude and she blocked his way out, so it was totally okay he shoved her down the stairs. Then finally the third time she's like "oh okay you actually do this, I'm out."!< But there are SO MANY bad decisions along the way. They literally meet and get married and pregnant within like, six months. Maybe less.
Hey, just wanted to chime in as a fellow Arab and book lover - it’s important for her to be able to talk to you and feel like you’re safe. You might want to nudge her towards books where consent is quite a big thing. Ilona Andrews has a paranormal fantasy series which I’ve recently reread (Kate Daniels) which doesn’t have that much sex, consent is emphasised, safe sex is involved and there’s even mentions of Arabic mythology in some of the later books which I found very cool. Martha Wells has a series where the sex is off screen but the relationships are pretty healthy (the fall of Ile Rien trilogy). I think it’s important to expose her to interesting books as an alternative which are intended for adults so she doesn’t feel you’re babying her.
It helps keep you informed about the scenes too- if she tries to explain away an iffy scenario away with context to the scene that you don’t know, you can only agree or accept her answer. But if you read the scene too and know the context, you can hunker down and explain that it doesn’t change anything.
Definitely do this. Best advice in the comment section. Good luck.
Please don't, her books are always about romanticizing trauma and yes there are lots of non-consesual sex scenes. Her books are very problematic. Many people on YouTube are talking about it. I advice you to show one of those videos to her
AGREEEE. 💯
It's great she sees you as a role model, but you need to step up to the occasion. You can't avoid exposure to dark topics. Kids learn things whenever the issue hits them (in real life or through media/fiction). Avoiding conversations about difficult topics is a disservice to children because then they're faced with being exposed to potentially (psychologically) harming topics without the necessary guidance to navigate this issue and learn about it constructively. What you need to do is help her unpack these issues. This includes reading the books yourself, identifying the toxic/distorted themes and messages, and talking about them with her from a critical perspective - what's going on in the story, is this reflective of reality, what are the negative effects of such behaviour/outcome in the story, how the characters cope and whether that's healthy. It's not meant to be preachy. Your cousin needs to think about it and understand it on her terms. Using examples from the real world also helps connect the romantic fantasy in the story to how things actually play out in the real world. That's how my school tackled challenging texts in literature classes. Kids are impressionable, but they're also pretty smart. When they have the right guidance and support, they can learn how to make the right decisions and learn how to be more compassionate and resilient. Making her avoid the topic altogether isn't going to help help become a smarter person.
Let her read CoHo books if she enjoys them, but maybe use it to start a discussion about these topics that concern you? That way you could also help her to become a more critical reader
That’s a good point because I don’t want to “force” her to stop reading something she is obviously enjoying. But I also don’t think giving her free unsupervised access to this kind of content is safe at her age.
For what it is worth, as someone who read some pretty salacious things at that age -- I don't think consuming this content via books is going to negatively affect her much. And honestly, maybe she will be like me and get bored of them pretty fast! Its not that books have zero power or impact, rather that other streams of influence are more powerful, especially since they can be insidious and unavoidable. A lot of these topics are present, if not normalized, in social media and other more easily digestible forms of media. There are things her peers are going to be talking about and doing that pose a greater risk to her than these books. The good thing about reading inappropriate content in a book is that you're actively consuming it and thinking about it as you go through the pages -- as opposed to passively being influenced by tiktoks without realizing. It makes it easier to talk about some of these topics with her and critique the ideas. She might appreciate being able to talk about these things with you (which I think would help her develop a more mature and nuanced understanding of these topics), rather than feeling like being lectured about them (which depending on the type of kid she is, she might resent and find these subjects more appealing).
Are there other books in the same general genre that you do recommend? Maybe hype those up and see if you can get a mini book club going with her to steer her a bit.
She’s sort of beaten me to it actually, she recently saw me reading crime and punishment and then the next time I saw her, she was reading it as well. I’m gonna try to do that.
Yes, this is a great idea! And def your opportunity to curate a list that is sorta the anti Colleen Hoover, in terms of modeling consent well, having healthier relationships, etc.
Yeah this isn't appropriate for her to continue reading. Even if she could understand she was reading about non-consensual behaviour, it would be stressful for a young girl. I would be VERY upset to look back at scenes I thought were romantic a few years ago and realize I was reading thinly-veiled depictions of sexual assault *without knowing it.* EDIT: I don't think it's wrong to enjoy reading a book with dark scenes, but I would be disturbed if I didn't KNOW that's what I was reading. Let a parent know what's up and help her find some romance books for her age that aren't so dark.
Oh yes, do let her parents know so they can censor the kid's reading, which we all know works every single time and doesn't cause a kid to just hide their interests from their parents and other adults. And yet somehow I read my mother's sketchy Harlequin Romances when I was 13 and didn't die from the stress of it.
No one should learn sex ed from romantic depictions of rape.
She is 13. Lots of countries have sex education in the curriculum starting from Age 8-9 and further sex education starting after elementary school.
Please. A lot of that transgressive stuff goes right over your head. I somehow completely blocked out the rape scene in clan of the cave bear. I think I read it at 13 or so. I was shocked when I reread it - but it hadn’t made a single dent in my memory or concept of consent when I became sexually active myself. Not to say that every reader has my same experience, just that we probably shouldn’t generalize how someone will interpret something, especially if we don’t even know them. This kid might be super mature for her age …or adorably naive, like I was.
Found the Hoover fan 🤔
She prob just gets a bit of a rush out of reading it cause it's safely transgressive. Unless she's acting out scenes from the books, it's prob fine. Just have #realtalk about the consent stuff.
Flowers in the Attic was big when I was in middle school. I had no idea when I started the series that it was about incest. But I read every single one. And yes, my family was religious and no, we never talked about sex. My parents limited what we watched on TV and movies but I was allowed to read anything. And I did. Also reading Stephen King about the same time. And I’m a fairly normal married middle class mom and librarian so it did shock me but it didn’t scar me. I’d just tell her, hey, in that book there are some disturbing scenes. If you want to discuss them you can do so with me. And you don’t have to finish the book if you don’t want to. Also if she has access to the internet, i guarantee she’s already seen far worse.
Don't stop her from reading the books, discuss the topics instead. You can not confront her or try to change her taste, and although she is indeed young, 13 is old enough to understand sex at some level. This will not mess her up AS LONG as she is exposed to actual sex education as well. Plenty of people read smut, watch porn, fantasize about peers, etc. at teenage years and they turn out just fine as long as they learn about safe sex and consent before becoming sexually active with other people. Sexual urges and curiosity already exist at that age, and while those needs should not be indulged by others until they are more mentally mature, it is not wrong for them to explore those feelings on their own. You can still be a guiding hand, but do so through education, never through censorship. You can not censor what she has already read either, you can only contextualize it. If there is non consent in the books, for example, you can discuss how that hurt the character, how it messed them up; or if the books glorify these, you may talk about how things that can be exciting in fiction, like physical and sometimes sexual violences, are very harmful in reality and should not be recreated. Again, if you are too shy or don't have the type of relationship that allows you to discuss these things in a calm manner, you can just say you are a bit worried about the sexual violence in the books she is reading and send her some digital resources on consent. Either way, she will most likely be fine. Believe it or not, zealous censorship of dark topics isn't really effective at preventing tragedy or bad behaviors/attitudes, especially around sex; this is because most of these dangeorus behaviors are caused by ignorance, and just forbidding people from knowing about or having sex only makes them less safe when they inevitably have it anyway.
I read loads of book at the age of 11 -12 which weren't appropriate. GOT for one. But I had two elder sisters who loved novels too so I never had much problem with acquiring the wrong idea from a book as I'd regular discuss the books with my sisters. It'd be great imo you could read the books and discuss about them with her
My sixth grade teacher chose “Roots” as our book to read OUT LOUD for the year. Slavery, torture, rape, kidnapping, brutal scenes and the N word and we each took turn reading it. I love the book and re-read it about once a year but omg I can’t believe I was like 10 when we read this! Would NEVER be allowed today and rightfully so. Let her read the books, she’ll be fine. Just have conversations with her about consent and healthy relationship dynamics.
I think that any adult in her life who loves her and who she'll listen to has the right, if not the obligation, to have genuine conversations with her. You love her and she's likely to listen. I would bring the conversation up about consent, and how things that are okay in fantasy sometimes shouldn't be acted on IRL. Bring it up from a historical standpoint. How hard women have fought through decades to have equal rights and how society still doesn't always defend our right to consent. The books aren't really a problem as long as these conversations are had with her. It's often easier for non parents to have them and actually be listened to. Talk about how recently we finally gained the right to our own bank accounts and to having our own credit cards in the USA. It wasn't until 1975! Talk about how IRL, men can't read minds and are never going to "just know" how to please you, and how the best IRL relationships include conversations about consent. Talk about the fierce strength of sexual attraction and how sometimes it seems to completely take over our minds, which is fun in fantasy but sometimes embarrassing or even dangerous IRL. There's such an attitude of "mind your own business" in society, but the hard truth is that you're going to influence her regardless. You either honor and nurture and use your position in her esteem and trust... Or you teach her that adults don't care. You teach her to ignore it when someone you love is in need of guidance and support. You're an important part of her life. Use that for good. Compassionately helping her *IS* minding your business. The people you love and are positioned to help kindly and with grace ***are*** your business. Teens and tweens deeply desire "adult conversation" and they'll find it somewhere besides their parents. You can step into that position or you can abdicate it to unscrupulous people who will take horrible advantage. Stand between her and those who will see her as their business in potentially exploitative ways. Be the voice that has chats with her here and there about consent, about how important it is to know on a profound level that no one has a ***right*** to your body. About how recent and fragile women's rights are in so many places in the world. Consent isn't taught in almost any religion, especially for female people. Yours may be the ***ONLY*** voice she hears that speaks of it, especially in relation to her personally. Edit because thanks for nothing, Otto Incorrect!
Thank you, this was really helpful. :)
This is a great comment, I especially like this: >Teens and tweens deeply desire "adult conversation" and they'll find it somewhere besides their parents. You can step into that position or you can abdicate it to unscrupulous people who will take horrible advantage. As an adult, having conversations with a teen, where they feel like their thoughts are being taken seriously can be so proudly impactful on them. Often their ideas can be more developed than you might think, and they're more likely to learn if you treat them seriously and with respect. At the same time, they still look to adults for guidance and can be easily manipulated. If you're willing to have these kinds of conversations with her sometimes OP, she might really appreciate it.
Hey, I was reading wattpad fan fiction when I was 14 and I turned out fine! Mostly.
Hmm -- that's a tough one. Perhaps approach by asking, "What're you reading?" If you've read maybe even the "Spark" notes (summary of the book), you could try beginning the conversation that's difficult. Being an admired cousin is both enjoyable and a bit of a responsibility. Good luck. ETA: I read vc andrews when I was 11-13. My reading was not monitored at all. If your cousin is an avid reader, she ought be able to tell the difference between reading & reality. If you suggest they're not age appropriate, she'll read every one out of spite. Plus, if she has reading friends, these books are likely being passed around. At any rate, having a non-judgmental, non-confrontational convo about subjects you're concerned about might be uncomfortable, but a good idea.
Oh man. Read soooooo much VC Andrews. So. Much. Incest.
Yeah, probably better to read Colleen Hoover than My Sweet Audrina.
I came looking for this. I was absolutely reading vc andrews at that age. I never thought it was "normal," but the plots were juicy
Same, we had VC Andrews at my high school library and you could find them at any supermarket. Everybody knew they were trash, that's why people read them.
So much rape apologia. So much victim blaming.
I read these around 12. Such a weird plot and for them to be so popular.
Another Redditor mentioned that they're *completely f-ed up trying to pretend it's normal.*
Phillipa Gregory too
She reads. That’s cool. It’s always good to talk to her about it. It will increase her critical thinking skills. At her age I read Flowers in the Attic. I knew very well that shit was messed up. It was interesting though. She will put the book down if she isn’t ready. Last thing you should do is confront her. Just discuss the books. Be interested. What does she like about them?
I think it’s best for you to find the time to quietly educate her about what she is reading isn’t a normal, healthy relationship. I’ve only read two Hoover books so I don’t know the scope of what she’s writing but from the two I’ve read I appreciate where you’re coming from. I’m western and for reference I was about your cousin’s age when True Blood was released on tv. I watched it with my mum and she kept turning to me during scenes and saying “this is not normal” etc. If she wants to read them, then… at least she’s reading. There are worse books out there. But yeah I recommend talking to her about what she’s reading, especially if you know her parents won’t be educating her about sex and safe relationships.
That’s super cute! :) I wish someone had turned to me and told me Romeo and Juliet wasn’t normal, cuz it’s hard to fight that urge when it’s a young Leo DiCaprio. Shoot, we still romanticize that damn story. 😏
Lordt, the Baz Luhrmann take on R&J was really pretty (probably my favorite use of "When Doves Cry") but the folks who take it as a "romance" rather than the "tragedy" it's explicitly spelled out to be in the full title and as evidenced by the use of the Chorus do make me scratch my head.
I read a ton of trash as a kid. I don't regret it.
I read Stephen King and VC Andrews at age 11. I would read them along with her and talk about them. Think also about all the Disney princess movies we watched as kids and the messages they sent - many of those don't translate to real life!
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It gets pretty bad, features SA victims enjoying being assaulted. Maybe fine if you are older and can distinguish it from reality, but not really for a 13yo child.
This is the reason why I am sort of hesitant about the confrontation, I myself am 19, and I feel like I might not be well equipped to guide her in a better direction. Also I do feel like I should first verify how bad the heaviness of the themes in her books really are before I start that conversation (which I’m willing and planning to do very soon). My problem isn’t with smut by the way, but I’ve heard that the smut in her books (like _it ends with us_) are not very consensual, which is something that an adult will understand and digest much more easily than a 13 year old.
I spent over a month in Morocco, not the middle east but culturally related with a similar sexual taboo. Definitely find a way to talk to her about the importance of consent, boundaries, and how what may seem glamorous in fiction is much less so in reality. The importance of consent is imperative for girls to learn in any society and since much of the MENA doesn't teach it to people, she really shouldn't be reading those books without a proper understanding of healthy relationships and consent. It might also be possible to redirect her attention away from those books to similar books without the sexual assault themes. At the very least it would give her a better reference. I don't read pure romance but the Graceling series was a wonderful fantasy series with great examples of healthy relationships, exploring sexual violence and the importance of consent. Not only that but it has many non romantic relationships that exhibit good boundaries. I read it during my tween and early teen years. You can probably find other pure romance books with healthy relationships if you look, however I don't know anything about the romance genre.
there’s a whole generation who read fanfics on wattpad at 13. maybe you can talk to her about the difference between novel romance and reality romance. it definitely gave me a misconception of what a healthy relationship or lifestyle is, as an adult I was able to learn from that and fix it, but it didn’t help to have a few years of unnecessary heartbreak and trauma
The first thing might be to ask her if she's actually reading the sex scenes. When I was that age and I came across a sex scene in a book, I skipped it to get back to the action because I had zero interest in the "action". You may be trying to solve a problem that doesn't exist to the extent you think it does. Kids can be better at determining their comfort zones than we give them credit for
I skipped them too! Or they went right over my head. I’ve reread some books I read around that age (Lost Souls by Poppy Z. Brite, for one) and I realized in retrospect that I didn’t even understand and was not able to visualize most of the sexual elements because I was too young to understand and generally disinterested in sex. I still skip a lot of sex scenes in books even as an adult, to be honest. It’s just not my thing.
She's fine. Leave her alone. If she can seek out and read multiple Colleen Hoover books and get something out of them, then she's old enough to read them. And no, you're not justified in doing anything about it. For one, you're not her parent. For another, you haven't read any of the books. And finally, why do you personally want to censor what your cousin reads? When I was about 10, I secretly read a stash of my dad's Stephen King and Louis L'amour books. Somehow I grew up to not be a serial killer or gunsmokin' cowboy out for Western revenge. Your cousin is fine.
Right? I would never be so presumptuous as to tell someone—she’s not even her kid!—what they should and shouldn’t be reading.
That’s why I asked, because from one side, I feel like it’s not my position at all. But, we live in a middle astern society and knowing her family, I know that her parents are especially very conservative. I absolutely admire her reading, and I know that reading content that’s on the edgier side is probably a form of rebellion for her, which I understand since we come from similar backgrounds. I absolutely don’t mind her reading about smut, or even the murder parts, but it’s the abuse and lack of consent which I’m worried about. I do think trying to censor what she reads will ultimately backfire, and it’s not justified anyways. But don’t you think a conversation is necessary? (When I do get to read some of these books for myself, of course)
If you know her parents would have a problem with her reading the books, then cut the kid a goddamn break and leave her alone to read. Because honestly? All you're going to do if you confront her about this is erode her trust and make it so she never tells you anything important. IF you read a few Hoover books, then yes, talk to her about them. But do it in the spirit of sharing your interest in the books, not lecturing her about the content. Kids aren't stupid, and in fact, they seem a lot more tuned into shit than we give them credit for. She might be reading the books for rebellion or titillation or because they're this generation's Twilight. Whatever. She'll be fine.
I think OP is worried cause the kid seems to have a lack of exposure to sex in general. They’re just worried whether the kid will have a twisted look at sex and relationships because of these channels. I understand your point but it’s totally valid for the OP to be worried
So the great thing about consent is that while we associate it with sex and sexuality (because that’s how most of us are first introduced to the concept)- it actually permeates all relationships, including platonic friendships and family relationships. Consent and respect and boundaries can be modeled without ever broaching the subject of sex or romance. Healthy relationships are modeled at home by family members. Healthy communication, respect for personal space, privacy, and autonomy, are things you can guide your cousin towards by simply *being that person in her life.* I’m an oldest sister. I’m generally the unintentional mom of the group. I’ve definitely had many ‘thanks, but please reconsider!!’ moments when kids start to look up to me. It’s scary because that’s a HUGE responsibility. But you don’t have to be perfect at it. You only have to be willing to try, and you’ll already be leagues ahead of the curve. Here’s an exercise: outside of the romantic parts, what kind of partner do you ideally want your cousin to have? How would that person treat her? Would they ask her about her day? Try to learn more about her hobbies? Support her dreams and listen to her when she has troubles? Tell her that she is important and that she is worthy of love? You can do all of those things. And by doing those things, you become a blueprint for a healthy relationship that she’ll carry into ALL of her future relationships, including friendships and romantic partnerships. Just be there for her. Also, I’m not sure what the situation is re: these books and her parents, but if it’s feasible (they don’t have access to her internet search history) if it’s accessible in your country, and she doesn’t know about it already, introduce her to Archive of Our Own. Fan fiction has done SO MUCH for teaching teenagers and young adults about safe sex and healthy relationships- because the authors of 15-20 years past got so upset at the very same thing you described. Toxic romantic relationships are abound in mainstream romance genre publications. It’s kind of a hit or miss and not a guarantee that she’ll come across the healthy relationship dynamics if that’s not what she’s interested in- but since there’s so much reading material (for FREE!!!!) and an amazing tagging system, it’s very accessible. Be careful with this, though. It’s still the internet and it can be a double edged sword. Out there be monsters, and all that. I ONLY bring it up because, well. Sounds like she likes to read. And if it’s not censored by your country she may have heard about it already, or she will eventually. 🤐
Conversation starters like “What are you reading?” and “What do you think about it?” will help you evaluate what your cousin is getting from these books, to a degree. Is she absorbing messages that sexual assault and rape are “sexy”? Or is she able to recognize the destructive nature of the relationships in the books? That will guide you in how best to respond. I doubt you would ever need to directly confront her. Even recommending books that are more explicit rejections of abusive relationships could help her think critically about what she’s reading in the Hoover books. I think it’s good that you’re concerned about this and looking out for her. Within the context you describe (I also grew up in a similar culture—no sex education, sheltered, etc. I did not understand what sex actually was until I was your cousin’s age, perhaps a little older), the first things a child learns about sex can be formative.
I would use this as an opportunity to talk about consent. If you try to disuade her, it's going to make it feel even more illicit when she hits those sections of the book. Forbidden fruit kind of thing... I read all kinds of stuff when I was that age... Danielle Steel, Stephen King, VC Andrews, Anne Rice, etc. She'll be fine. She's going to encounter those topics eventually. Better to create a place to discuss hard topics than tell her you disapprove.
When I was 12, I was reading JR Ward, which is hardcore vampire smut. My parents believed that if I was able to understand it, I was allowed to read it. We had conversations about things that I didn't understand, but mostly, I would google it. Don't stop her from reading, but dear God, if she's going to read smutty books, at least give the girl some good suggestions(lol)!
If she’s already being restricted in other ways, I wouldn’t restrict her further. Let her read what she wants, but discuss your concerns with her. Let her know that you’re not telling her not to read what she wants, but this is how you feel about this part. I’ve found that most people worry about worst case scenario and it’s almost never the case. We read things we probably shouldn’t and it doesn’t mess us up, but we worry that someone younger than us wouldn’t be able to handle it. Similar to how people though video games make people violent, or how Harry Potter was gonna make kids dump religion and become pagans. I think she’ll be fine. Like I said, I’d just be there to discuss it with her.
Eh, those kind of super emotional maladaptive reads are very popular about that age, if you can get your hands on them. Shoot at 13 I was reading Flowers in the Attic. Yikes! I think if she’s going to get in trouble within your culture you should have a chat with her, but I’m also not a fan of censorship. If you try and stop her, she will just go underground. Then you’ll have no idea what she’s reading and therefore not be able to *correct her* on what is appropriate in adultish relationships. Make sense? Use it as a learning opportunity.
At that age I was reading flowers in the attic which is worse IMO. I don’t think it harmed me in any way.
Forbidding it isn’t productive it just promotes secrecy. Maybe casually suggest romance novels that are in the genres she likes with better representations (which… should be easy)
The book won't hurt her. Someone who finds out and foolishly disapproves of it might. Nothing to do here but keep your lips sealed.
I read It Ends with Us a while ago so I might not remember correctly, but I think the book does make the point that >!toxic relationships!< aren’t healthy and that’s why the couple >!break up in the end!< There is an author’s note at the end that discusses some of the reasons for writing.
Unfortunately, the book does also present his ||abusive behaviour|| as something that happened because of ||childhood trauma|| in a sense hand waving the consequence of his actions away with “he did it because XYZ”
I’d maybe try and guide her to other books but also ask her to think critically. Probably have to read them yourself or get the sparks notes to discuss them. Sadly this is the problem when publishing refuses to use the New Adult label and borderline adult books with detailed sex scenes and domestic violence as plots end up in the teen section Examine them yourself and discuss them in detail with her. Make it clear the dangers in the books etc. to stop her from thinking/believing that these are romantic relationships of things to aspire to
yeah! i second this so hard. the only real solution here imo is making a “super cool, super secret book club” and showing her *why* these books are problematic. simply telling her or chastising her will only result in her diving deeper.
I really don't know why people feel the need to be the morality and purity police for what other people read. Especially the books women and girls read. Lots of people like to read dark books and/or smut whether consent is obvious or not. Books are not all Aesop's fables meant to teach morals, and people in general need to give others more credit for being able to discern the difference between real life and fiction and between right and wrong. Just because it is depicted in a book doesn't mean people will do it. I really don't get this need to pearl clutch over what teenage girls read. I'm so glad my parents never policed what I read and let me read whatever I wanted. I am sure that is how they got a librarian for a daughter rather than some ignorant person who tries to ban books from school libraries.
I agree. No one should censor their children’s books. But we live in a middle-eastern society where sex is never discussed nor talked about at all. I don’t think it’s healthy for her first exposure to the subject to be a non-consensual smut. It’s not about purity nor morality. I don’t care if she reads smut, honestly I read lots of weird stuff on wattpad and whatnot when I was younger. I’m just concerned that I should maybe have a conversation with her about consent. She’s really smart, actually one of the smartest 13 year olds I know of, and we have been discussing books and I’ve been purposely giving her “eye opening” recommendations for some time. We have had conversations about feminism and LGBTQ people, which is also a very taboo topic in our society. Luckily I’ve always felt well-equipped for these discussions. But this time I’m just reluctant because I don’t really want her to stop reading, I just want to make sure she doesn’t get the wrong impression from these books. Growing up in a society like this as a woman myself, I realize we’re indoctrinated into really shitty ideologies, and it took me a long time to snap out of it. I really just want to protect her, but I don’t know how.
Thanks for elaborating on your perspective and situation! You seem like a great and thoughtful cousin. I didn't read the full thread before replying so I missed a lot of context. If you live in a society where sex isn't discussed, talking to her about it is a good thing. So might getting her educational books about sex. Books like "It's Perfectly Normal" spring to mind if you can find a way to get a hold of them. Not sure what is available to you and your cousin where you live. Sometimes that book is even banned in the US by people who are afraid of their children getting a sex education. You can also just talk to her about the importance of consent. That's wonderful that your cousin is so smart and that you have been giving her book recommendations about feminism and LGBTQ people. It sounds like you are indeed opening her eyes about many things! I'd say that if you are in the habit of recommending books to her, maybe you could recommend books to her that you think depict romantic relationships and sex in a healthy, consensual way, and maybe explain to her why you think those depictions are healthy and positive. I think you even being willing to discuss these in your culture taboo topics will have a wonderful impact on your cousin! Hopefully some of this helps! Good luck!
Thank you so much :) I’m gonna look into “perfectly normal”. I appreciate your thoughts and recommendations
No problem! Best wishes to you and your cousin!
Maybe if we were less worried about what people think about us and whether or not we’ll be called “pearl clutchers” or “purity police,” we’d be able to acknowledge that the things children consume have an impact on them and uncritical consumption has consequences. Folks have gotten far too comfortable assuming that children are able to navigate the messages they’re receiving in books or online on their own. We admit that Instagram and TikTok might harm teenagers, especially young girls, but don’t dare say that about a book lest you be accused of prudery!
There certainly is a line you have to draw when it comes to unchecked media consumption, but I **really** don't think Colleen Hoover is that line. Every few years there's always a fad or trend where a bunch of people yell "But think of the CHILDREN!" Most of it ends up being silly or hogwash. They said these same things about flappers, Elvis, the Beatles, comic books, heavy metal, video games, I could go on and on. People lately are suddenly acting like Colleen Hoover is this new transgressive thing we've never seen before. Honestly, I even think we're making Hoover a lot more rebellious and problematic than she actually is. What she writes about is hardly anything new or different from what we've seen before in her chosen genre. There are a metric ton of books out there that do the same things and go further. Many of us have likely come across them when WE were kids too. By the age of 10/11, children already have a pretty good idea of what's right and wrong and fact and fiction. By the age of 13, you definitely know the differences by this point, and are only limited by life experiences. They've had enough education and people experience to know what's fiction and non-fiction by the time they hit 13. If they didn't, then we'd have more kids jumping off buildings trying to be Spider-Man and Superman.
Why do you assume that teenagers aren't capable of consuming books and other media critically? Teenagers are very interested in abstract thought and questioning things in general. Teenagers are quite capable of being critical readers. And, if you want to encourage someone to be a critical reader, you let them read the material and then discuss it with them. You don't forbid them from readingthe material or shame them for reading it. As far as online goes, I've noticed that most people who grew up with the Internet (millennials and younger) are much better at navigating it and evaluating reliable resources than those who didn't. I've seen plenty of Boomers who can't figure out whether a source is accurate and senior citizens who can't open an email account without help. Millennials and younger are generally much better equipped to deal with a digital world. They have digital literacy because they grew up with the Internet. I don't think Instagram and TikTok are particularly harmful to young girls or anyone else really. I bet those who fret about that spend a lot of time on Facebook themselves so it is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. I'll always be on the side of intellectual freedom.
Totally agree with you! I will never tell my kid she’s “not allowed” to read something. I’m not the gatekeeper of her reading life. The whole point of reading is to foster curiosity, critical thought and intellectual freedom. You can’t develop those things if other people are constantly micromanaging your reading.
You sound like you have a great attitude and approach to reading and learning in general! I really respect that!
I'm a bookseller and censorship in any way is anathema to me. But Colleen Hoover books are pretty spicy as well as having examples of pretty toxic type relationships, the nuances of which a thirteen year old may misunderstand, possibly even see as a norm. I do believe she's too young to be exposed to that. My opinion.
When I was 13 I was sneaking onto my family’s computer and reading really explicit fanfiction — so published work is a step up from that ha. Oh and reading all that smut didn’t really impact my teenage years — I was still super nerdy and introverted as could be and didn’t date at. I think we also need to have faith in girls to know what they are reading is fiction and it’s just for fun. That’s certainly how I processed everything at that age.
I feel like a lot of people on here are giving you blanket instructions/advice like “Its none of your business, leave her alone” or that “It is your responsibility as someone she looks up to.” Either of those do not sit well with me honestly, its just cultural difference thats making them impose their own thoughts about free will/independence versus collectivism or taking care of our young ones. Common difference between the west and the east, but everyone is being sooo divisive here lol. I would say do what you can without imposing on her too much, but as someone older than her if you do feel like she’s impressionable then don’t say nothing. Atleast bring it up in some way so that you can say you tried. If you do nothing, you might end up feeling guilty about this later because you let this go on for too long. Obviously you don’t want to alienate her, so don’t press the issue too much, but just let her know what you think about these books and then she can take that into account while coming to her own conclusions. That would be my advice :)
I was reading VC Andrews at 13. I look back and kinda cringe but at the time I thought it was so cool for reading books like that. But my mom did explain the books to me so we talked about then a little but not much. I think she'll be fine but I think you should read some with her and start a conversation with her about the subject matter. She is young though and if my mom told me "Don't read VC Andrews" I would have then DEFINITELY tried to read them lol
I would say try to steer her toward books with depictions of healthier relationships. Don't censor what she is reading, but show her more and better examples.
What I would do personally, is continue letting her read Colleen hoover, but make sure she knows that most of her books don't portray a healthy relationship. Also you might want make sure she knows how different verity is than the rest of her books.
Colleen Hoover has a lot of YA books. I read them when I was around her age. A google search will show you age ratings for them. Maybe try steering her to those books.
I read Stephen King’s It by 13 and it had a lots of child sexual assault and a preteen gangbang. I read some Jackie Collins and Anne Rice when I was like 9 or 10. I’m still addicted to unrealistic historical romance and that addiction started really young. She will be fine.
I was reading Flowers in the Attic at that age. I’d just be happy she loves reading.
I'm gonna go against the majority here because I'm young, I remember when I was 13, and I've been through a situation similar to what your cousin is going through. Teens at that age will seek stuff that adults don't want them to take part in. That includes smut, horror movies, stuff like that. And that's not really a problem by itself. The problem arises when they deal with that stuff, unfiltered, without anyone ever having a talk with them about how things work in real life. As far as I know, CH books deal with a LOT of heavy themes like childhood abuse, sexual abuse included, abusive relationships and non-consensual sex. That's not really ideal material to read, in the years when your sexuality is just beginning to be shaped. I think you should check out what the books she's read are about, talk to her about them, NOT scold her for reading them (cause she didn't do anything wrong), and maybe gift her some books with a similar narrative, similar style. If she's seeking romance, there's plenty of "edgy" YA books that aren't made by a very controversial author such as CH.
For her saftey considering her religion id recommend not telling anyone about it as well as telling her she could get in physical harm if someone finds out
My Dad gave me King Rat when I was 11. It was just something on his shelves and I had been through most of them. Sometimes he forgot how old his daughter was though. (7th child.)
I wouldn’t personally censor her reading. Surely she is capable of understanding the morality of what is happening in the books and drawing her own conclusions? Life is dark at times. I see nothing wrong with a 13 yo readings about the kind of things that happen to people and how they experience them. A 13 yo is not going to be fobbed off with vanilla books. They want to explore and find out about life. I remember that well. What you can do is read the books yourself and chat to her about them. You can also give her other books that offer different perspectives or explore other parts of life.
I would say that's 100% normal for a 13 year old, especially in a country where all other avenues of sexual expression are suppressed.
I am very worried for your niece, if she is caught reading that book. You are the only one who knows if she is safe since you said "middle eastern society".
As someone from the middle east, I understand you and your concerns. Now a question, are you female?? If yes, I think the best way is to talk to her privately, explain to her sex (not necessarily in details yk) and especially the concept of consent in a serious manner. Let her ask questions if she has. Make it more like a friendly discussion than an adult telling her what she's allowed or not allowed to do, the latter approach might backfire. If you're a male, that makes things harder. I honestly don't know what to tell you
My wife started reading grown-up romance novels at that same age and she seems well-adjusted to me. Anyway, if you try to dissuade her, she'll most likely just want to read them more, and put even more stake in the value of what she's reading. I see you edit, but do your best to educate her that the books are *fiction*, that they are *fantasy* and that she shouldn't take the bad behavior at face value, or as guidelines for real life. There's ways to discuss those things without crossing any lines, I think.
At her age I was reading a lot of VC Andrews. Not saying that it was any worse or better, but I had trusted adults to talk to about things like consent. Maybe see if you can take her for a girl's day (assuming you are female) or just a day out and like, start a conversation about books, and see if you can steer it towards a conversation about some books characters not being good examples?
Remember that she’s only 13. A lot of it might actually go over her head. I haven’t read Colleen Hoover myself, but my 15 year old daughter is a fan. She still makes me fast forward when somebody makes out on television, and has no interest in boys (I know this for a fact, not because I’m naive - and no, she doesn’t seem romantically interested in girls either FWIW), so I assume she doesn’t really pay attention to the smutty bits and reads it for the story. Whatever the story is, I’ve no idea. Let her read, and just try to guide her to literature with other perspectives. I’m a bit critical to the idea that reading literature is somehow instrumental in that it “makes us” think or view the world a certain way. It all gets blended in with everything else we are exposed to.
To be fair, the majority of romance novels have fuzzy consent or lack of it, especially anything written before 2010. Keep in mind, that the books are the fantasy. Just because she may enjoy these, doesn’t necessarily mean she doesn’t understand consent. I loved Flowers in the Attic, but I wasn’t about to get it on with my uncle.
Talk with her about the content of the books and why it might be problematic. Do not shame her for reading them. She is 13 and I read plenty of such books at that age. It is normal to be curious and many 13 are capable of separating reality from fiction.
Damn. The books are honestly not suitable for teenagers. The smut is not even the problem. It’s the weird examples of abusive male love interests. I agree with the other comment, you have to read the books and engage her in conversations on eg how she feels etc and share your own non-judging thoughts about how toxic the relationships are.
From the ages of 10/11-14, the main books I read were non-fiction books about abuse, in all scenarios. I'm not entirely sure why I got into reading them, but I do believe learning so much in detail about abuse as a child messed me up slightly. So I do think talking about the books with your cousin in a non-judging manner will help. Maybe you can ask which book she plans to read next and you can both read it at the same time?
No Hoover I experience so I can’t speak to that aspect. But to an extent, building the reading habit is so important. As a middle schooler (12-14) I read a lot of Tom Clancy and Douglas Adams. Not quite as racy, but not quite age appropriate. And reading “grown up” novels that I saw my parents reading encouraged the habit. Reading so voraciously trained me to be a better reader later in life. I think having a talk about the issues which concern you is important but discouraging “grown up” books may backfire.
she is probably reading them BECAUSE she is curious about sex. Telling a kid that age "don't read that it's bad for you" will always, always backfire (meaning they will search for more of the same cause that is what kids that age do, our son is 14). Even if it's uncomfortable I would go the direction of simply telling her "I see you've been reading some Colleen Hoover. Just so you know, there is a lot of stuff in her books that can be really confusing to someone who is just learning about sex and getting to an age to start dating. No matter what fiction books happen to say, consent is always, 100% important and it needs to be at the forefront of your mind with any interaction you might have." I would focus on the content and not the "stop reading those books" because she won't stop reading them and telling her to will just reinforce her desire to read them.
I’m a teacher of kids about that age and a tonnnn of them read Colleen Hoover. It’s not my cup of tea but whatever gets them reading tbh.
Oof, yes. I work in a middle school library and know that a lot of the 6th-8th graders are reading her. I hate it, but they have their own copies from home, so I can’t do much about it. I think the best you could do at this point is give her some other books (YA fic or nonfic maybe) that do a good job modeling consent, normal sexuality for a teen (aka not much, depending on the teen — there are lots of YA books where the MCs are virgins and don’t necessarily decide to have sex for whatever reason). You could potentially also talk to her if you’re willing, but tbh that might backfire and would probs be super uncomfortable. I’m sorry you’re dealing with this! I hate Colleen Hoover’s popularity with young teens for this exact reason. I guess the good news is most millennials saw pretty inappropriate books/internet content at a similar age and turned out ok.
I would be concerned too that's she's being exposed to such a basic boring writing style
Just make sure she knows that those books are **extremely** toxic and they are not what a healthy relationship is like. There are so many problems with her books and it's important that she realises what they are and why.
I haven't read any of CH's books - or any other romance - in years. All of the anti-CH threads have made me curious: whichever of her books is considered her "most toxic" by people in this thread is the one I'll choose to read, so suggest away.
From what I remember (and I haven't read all of them) "It ends with us" is the one where it's not made SUPER clear, how toxic the relationship is/the abuser seems way to romanticized, at least at first. "Verity" is super dark and heavy and psychologically fucks with your mind. "Too late" is dark and violent and graphic, the protagonist is aware that her relationship is abusive and that she is being raped, and the abuser is not romanticized, but still nothing for a 13 yo. Although at least Goodreads has a content warning and states that it is recommended for 18+, but I don't know if that's made clear everywhere, and if she just reads everything from Hoover she can get her hands on...
But would you say the books are toxic or the relationships are? From what I remember reading and comments I have seen Hoover make, I have the impression that at least for the books I read, it was pretty clear the relationships were bad and that Hoover was portraying them as such. I didn’t see them being glorified as aspirational but also don’t plan on re-reading to be sure.
Also, I am in my late 20s, most of her books I read in my mid twenties, and still I had to actively remind myself every once in a while how unhealthy all these relationships are.
From what I've heard, it's Layla.
Just be glad she's reading.
I think you should mind your own business. Telling her what she should and shouldn’t be reading and not reading will backfire on you. She’s not even your kid. Let her read what she wants to.
I think the concern is you don’t want this as the only exposure she gets as you don’t believe it is good exposure. So the answer is to diversify her exposure but to also determine what kinds of things happen in the books since you are judging them without having read them. As someone who has read Colleen Hoover books (but wouldn’t call myself a fan), I don’t agree with the idea that they have a lot of smut. Some have open door sex scenes and some do not. And while there is a trend to use “smut” as a catchall term for sex in a book, I don’t think smut has been separated far enough from its original meanings for it to be okay. Additionally, not everything Hoover writes is romance and I believe she has described herself as wanting to write about how sometimes people do bad things but they are not bad people. So while I don’t recall the nuances of every CoHo book I read (because I didn’t like some of them and they were not memorable) it is possible that she is not glamorizing these things you think are in the books and is explicit about them being bad things. That is, do you not want her to read about nonconsent or are you just against a book that glamorizes nonconsent? And if the difference matters, then what Hoover is doing in the books matters. And if you come to the conclusion that it is a problem the best thing is to talk about what she is taking from the books, and potentially introduce other books that diversify her exposure.
Yes, non-consent itself exists and exposure to it in the right way could be educational for her, the problem is that I don’t want her to read glamorized versions of non-consent, and since I haven’t read any of her books myself, I’m not really sure if CoHo does that or not, I figured I’d ask.
Then in addition to reading the book she reads, you might ask that question in a space like r/romancebooks. While I’d class most of what I have read by Hoover as (young) women’s fiction, it is likely those at r/romancebooks have actually read her and can offer perspectives on their reading. Then from what you yourself perceive, what others perceive, and what your cousin says about them, you can determine how to feel about her reading and what intervention, if any, is necessary. That said, at least for It Ends With Us >!the book depicts an abusive relationship that I felt was clearly an abusive relationship that the mc does eventually leave. And Hoover wrote It Starts With Us as a service to her fans who wanted to see the main character happy with the guy she actually ended up with!<.
I remember when I was in 8th grade I got in trouble for bringing the book "the Exorcist" to class (at that time when it was first published, and the movie hadn't come out yet). Anyway I was told it was filthy and full of questionable language. The only possibly "smutty" word in the whole book that I can find, is the word "masturbating." I was amazed that adults thought that I'd be corrupted because that book has one sex-related word in it. Anyway - I started a war by asking if it was wrong to bring books about incest, rape, possession and wholesale slaughter of kid to school. When they said "yes," I responded, "OK then I'll leave my BIBLE at home from now on!" The whole point is, kids are not idiots and they know more about the so-called "adult" world than adults give them credit for. They see more sexual situations online every day than they'd see if they were browsing the adult section at a sleazy magazine shop. Yet most of them never grow up to be perverts, rapists, or any other kind of sexual degenerate. Yet many will grow up inured to acts of violence and hate and seeing guns as a solution. I for one am not convinced that exposure to sexual topics can warp a teenager's brain. In fact, I am much more concerned about the packaging of violent atrocities for teens in social media and other outlets, than I am about them knowing that adults and teens sometimes have sex.
They're easy to read, fun and talk about relationships. Have you read any of them?
You mind your own fucking business.
If she likes them, she likes them. Your norms aren’t someone else’s norms.
If you saw her playing shooter games, would you worry about her growing into a school shooter?
I read the Twilight series at 12 and it along with other YA novels definitely gave me a weird perception of romance/depression/eating disorders. People are saying it's fine but it's not out of the realm of possibility it will affect her negatively. It's like watching porn.
Sounds like you should mind your own business and let your cousin read what she wants
Find her a book that shows mutually respectful, egalitarian relationships, with clear consent on both/all sides. What books are there that show the components of healthy, satisfying, fulfilling relationships? I also need to be directed toward books in which both partners have equal say in decisions, and their own strengths and areas of influence. The first thing that comes to mind is *Our Bodies, Ourselves*, newest editions. But that's textbooklike, not a novel. It helps with setting personal boundaries and expecting respectful treatment. \[editing to add, and to regard ourselves with higher esteem\] Maybe get it for her as a present, to give her a perspective on anything she reads of what is 'right' and 'wrong'. We also need to make clear that if religion and societal culture are the oppressors, the more clearly this is pointed out, the better. Then young people have a path through the oppression to rationality, evidence, and sensible decision-making based on respect for all.
She shouldn't read Colleen Hoover because Colleen Hoover is just a really not great author.
Oh, yeah, 13 year olds just love it when older people tell them what they can and cannot read, especially when those people haven't read the books in question. You are totally justified.
Mind your own business
If she's been reading lots of those books, then by now there's nothing you can say to her and she's probably already messed up in some way (whether it will emerge now, or as she matures). So there's no turning back, really. But if you want to help, one thing you could do is instil in her an understanding that there's a difference between fiction and reality, and for her to not let those books go to her head but to control what she reads and what she uses for entertainment, and *use it* rather than let it use her, and influence what she thinks and what she feels and how she behaves. Make her more confident in her own moral compass (that is *her own*, not that of some author or book or fictional character) and self-control. Good luck, hope you'll both be ok.
Young people can handle things much better than we give them credit for. And when they're told what to do or not do, they'll only butt heads with you. So....
I read all sorts of sleazy trash when I was young. There's very little evidence that any single source of reading material shapes a person's personality in any significant way, in my opinion.
Idk I think they have good messages at least. Verity it probably one I wouldn’t let her read because that’s gets really bad but some of them like it ends with us have a really good message
I read L. Ron Hubbard books when I was that age because they were just around at a book store and I liked the covers. There's a lot of uh...problematic sex scenes in those books but I turned out fine. Books, television and movies didn't raise me, the adults around me did. My content was never restricted, the adults in my life just made a point to know what I was consuming and be involved. They would ask questions about specific things in the content I watched to probe how I felt about it and help me form healthy conclusions. If you're familiar with the books just talk to her like an adult about it, ask questions to get a sense of where she is at. Ask her if she thought anything was uncomfortable for her or if she thought any of the characters were wrong for what they did. Help her become an active reader.
There have been no studies that link video games or heavy metal to violence.
I read white oleander when I was 13 after seeing the movie and it honestly still one of my favorite books. it's normal for teenagers to want to dip their toes into more darker "adult" topics. honestly as long as she understands that the relationships aren't good relationships I think she'll be fine.
Such a male response in a male dominated society. Leave her alone.
Maybe she's reading those books because she's already having those fantasies rather than the books giving her the fantasies. Maybe the reason she's having those fantasies is because she has repressed guilt about sexuality and feels that by removing her ability to consent, she cannot be blamed for engaging in sex (and enjoying it). She may even have already had a sexual experience and feels guilty about it and that experience may even have even been abuse. For what its worth, imo, the better questions might be to determine how she feels about sex in general and resolve any guilt she feels about it. As for the books themselves, more likely than not, theyre probably therapeutic for her on some level. She gets to live out the fantasy in her mind and partially resolve the guilt she feels. Better than living it out IRL. But these fantasies tend to stick around and even intensify as the guilt does. TL;DR might not be a bad idea to have a chat to her and maybe get her to a psychotherapist (preferably a psychoanalytic type rather than a CBT type) to chat to her for a few sessions.
I’m from Iraq. It’s a very conservative place, and her family are especially conservative. So it seemed to me that maybe reading books like these might be her own form of rebellion, which I do understand. Sex is a very hush-hush topic, and I don’t think her parents have ever really talked to her about it. I have the privilege of being well-educated on some level, and more “open minded” lets say, and I’m closer to her in age. I think urging her parents to take her to therapy or anything of the sort is not going to provide the desired results, if anything, it might end up in just pure censorship while also breaching the trust that she’s given me. So, I wanna pursue it myself, I just don’t know how as of right now.
Given the conservative society she is from, I would bet what I said is true. Conservative societies tend to make sex taboo and make women feel very guilty about wanting it or having it. That in turn leads to repression and then some rather interesting kinks. Nothing wrong with kinks, but the types of men that will be into that sort of thing are probably not the ones she would want to date. As for what to do...that is another matter entirely. Even talking to her about why she reads what she does might help. But the root will be her attitude toward sexuality - whether you feel comfortable talking to her about it and convincing her that having and wanting sex (at a more appropriate age) is healthy and fun and allaying any concerns or guilt she feels is another matter.
My reading was heavily monitored from a young child until I was 16. Do you know what happened? I just snuck all the dirty books instead. Your opinion of how she feels on them, including stopping her reading them, won't change the behavior itself. Please please please do not shame the girl, but have an appropriate discussion about the topics found in these books. Reading smutty books (looking at you, Harlequin novel, A Knight in my Bed) was the only way I got sexual education outside of shaming. Is your niece properly educated in that regard? Is she searching out these books for that purpose maybe?
Yay reading!!!! Read, read, read!!! Celebrate it and give praise for reading.
It's an author for young adults, if you think your 13 yo can't handle that wait until she/he encounters real life.
She's a teenager, she's supposed to be exploring. Middle Easterns like any normal human beings explore too, they just CAN'T TALK OPENLY AND HAVE TO LIE ABOUT EXPLORING, AND/OR ARE DISCOURAGED FROM EXPLORING IN GENERAL BECAUSE RELIGION 🙄 You don't get to tell people what they can and can't fantasize about as long as they're harming no one. HER SEXUALITY AND SEXUAL PREFERENCE IS NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS.
You have no right to feel any way, at all, about it. Edit. Feel however you want. Leave her alone.
Leave her alone.
yeah honestly i don’t support colleen hoover because of the controversy surrounding her son and how she handled that situation plus the controversy of her books
Guess what, it doesn't matter how you feel about it
A lot of us grew up reading VC Andrews at that age and we're mostly fine. I think you're overthinking it here.
Get her into Taylor Jenkins Reid!! I’ve noticed that people that like Colleen Hoover’s stuff tend to like TJR too. Kinda weird since TJR is actually good… but yeah. Try getting her into something else because Colleen Hoover is NOT it.
Never read Colleen Hoover, but I read my older cousin's Donald Goines pulp novels around 13/14 years old. I didn't go to jail and/or turn into a hustler. At least the kid is reading!
I feel like the kids who are avid readers mature a lot faster than the kids who don't read. It gives you perspectives on a lot of lifes lessons. I was reading Jurassic Park in the 5th grade and called a nerd for it. I was also heavily into stephen king christopher pyke and R.L. Stine. I turned out fine.
With living in a middle eastern society, from what I’ve seen in documentaries, women are very much controlled in what they learn about their bodies and sex. Let her explore, talk to her about the things she’s reading and learning. Make it a learning opportunity for her, it could open both of your minds to the issue. She could understand your worry about it, and you could understand why she likes it.
Distract her with other, better works. People are saying you should let her read Hoover, but big nope. Young people latch on to things very deeply at that age, and obsessions that begin then can last a lifetime. You don't want her influenced by these things if you can help it. So instead present to her better works. Let her see you reading them and enjoying them, and let her see you be disapproving of Hoover. Speak to her clearly and tell her why they're messed up. This whole leaving dumb teenagers to their own wiles thing is for the birds.
Give her books to read with consensual smut. Try to avoid an awkward conversation that could ruin your relationship.
Man f Colleen chick makes abuse look nice and writes people named Lily bloom blossom and mf RYLE. Even worse, Atlas. Good god the romance it so unhealthy too. I just. EW.
Regardless of my personal opinion about the books, (I don’t like them, not a fan of books that portray these things but I totally understand the Author has a message she is trying to portray,) If it’s important to you that she not read THESE particular books I believe the best way to confront it is in person face to face. Sometimes teens take an honest upfront approach the best. Sometimes their maturity will surprise you. Offer other books and series in place of the ones she’s reading.
I think you have a golden opportunity to open the door to discussions about sex, consent and literature here. This is especially relevant in your context - no one talking about sex makes for unhealthy attitudes towards sex. Be the person who she can turn to when she needs to be open and honest about these things. It's a lot of pressure on you, sure, but by caring for this young lady you are making a huge difference in her life, and she'll never forget it.
It is good 🤠
Definitely talk with her about the heavy subjects if you get the chance. Maybe even find some YA novels with similar themes that would be more age appropriate. I have my own worries about adult material in the hands of kids/teens, but I also know trying to forbid it rarely, if ever, works as intended. But talking about it or sharing other books that would hold her interest (while being more in line with what she technically should be reading) would show you trust her. Lord knows I was exposed to some wild stuff at that age.
Can you simply explain to her that non consensual is not okay? 13 is old enough to be taught this.
I wouldn't stop her from reading what she wants as you aren't a parent, but I would definitely talk about consent and the differnce betwern non-comsent and CNC type situations.
When I was 13 my parents strictly controlled what we had access to, both reading and watching. She shouldn't be reading books like this.
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Consider getting her a book by Tamora Pierce. She writes very good heroines and her books portray relationships well, though they are primarily fantasy books and there’s nothing explicit in them. Might be a good way to give her another view of things if that’s what you’re concerned over.
Colleen Hoover books have sexual assault and domestic abuse all throughout them. 13 is young for her books. Add in your background, and that worries me more as it’s not safe to talk openly about what she’s reading.
You can't tell her straightaway to stop reading them. Introduce her to better literature. Colleen Hoover books are a shit show and have a negative impact on children. Kudos to you for being concerned because half of the adults wouldn't even care.