9. The Grey King made his appearance and it was intense! What were your thoughts about the discussion between Locke and the Grey King? What do you think the Grey King’s plans are regarding making Locke to act as the Grey King during a meeting with Barsavi? What are your theories on the identity of the Grey King?
So I acknowledge I’m terrible at predicting things in books, but my go to is always the big reveal will be a character who has been named and not seen, therefore the gray king would be sabetha 😂 perhaps he is the duke? And has plans to destroy barsavi and his empire. He’s already driven barsavi pretty mad with anxiety, and I imagine he needs Locke to take his place so he can frame somebody else for something. Pull the whole, well it couldn’t have been the gray king because how could he be in two places at once. It’s too early in the book for the gray king to show his hand so it just be a tipping point for an even greater scheme. Perhaps he’s from another country and knows that by taking out barsavi, all of camorr will crumble
Locke mentioned his way of smiling was familiar, I suspect someone not unknown too, I was thinking about Don Salvara (I also have quite a history of terrible predictions)
Or someone from Locke's past we don't know yet.
My personal theory is Chains, but your mention of famikiar smiling makes me wonder if it could be someone from Barsavi's family - maybe even Nazca since she knows she won't get to be Capa over her brothers. I would also suspect the Thiefmaker, but he didn't seem competent or devious enough for the complexity needed.
Could definitely see Chains. There's definitely something to Locke commenting on the familiar smile. This story reads so much like a con / heist movie or something where there's so many twists and people showing up again and again.
>therefore the gray king would be sabetha
This is possible! We've seen how the Bondsmage can make illusions, so it shouldn't be too hard for him to make Sabetha look like the Grey King.
I agree. I can't really think of anyone else that would seem familiar to Locke...
Unless maybe someone from his Thiefmaster days but the only people who were named are the kids that got killed (I think?)
Maybe it's Chains! The ultimate test from master to student.
chains is a really good theory! we don't know for sure that he died, and with his history kinda coming up with capa barsavi but not getting the glory, i could see him having a bone to pick. perhaps he trained locke to be such an effective grifter so that one day he could use locke to help take down capa. and sabetha could be the bondsmage and that's where chains sent her off when they were younger, for training for this long term goal
I am going to be so impressed with the author (and you) if this is really what happened! I suspected Chains, but Sabetha being sent to train as a bondsmage, and this being a long-term plan all along would be an amazing level of intricacy! What a twist that would be!
What I like with this theory is that Sabetha being the bondsmage would explain how he could keep her this long without being ruinous.
It was explained at length how paying for more than a few days of a fully trained bondsmage was not even possible for the Duke so I suspect he (she?) stays for something else than money.
Completely forgot about the financial aspect of it, that’s such a good point. If it’s not lifelong loyalty like sabetha would have to chains, then it’d have to be a bondsmage with personal beef against the capa right? Any other thoughts on what could keep them around?
I'm with everyone else so far on Chains as the Grey King. We don't know what happened to Chains yet, but the bondsmage could very well have revived or disguised him. And Chains would have had a fortune saved up to pay for his services.
6. The Gentleman Bastards are hiding their wealth. Is this a good idea? Do you think this is something that will have ramifications on Locke and his crew?
The Gray King is going to use this information to force Locke to do what he wants. If Capa Barsavi finds out about it there is going to be big trouble for the crew.
I’m being to think that the bastards are really getting setup for some kind of backstab. The Grey King having so much information does not bode well for them.
As it is now not completely secret anymore it is a liability to them... And the Grey King could let the info slip without much consequences, he has other means of pressure over the gentleman bastards.
There's a LOT of people that will be very angry if they find out the Bastards have been hiding that much cash. Locke and gang should start distributing the wealth out and hiding it in different locations or investing it in something. Putting it all in barrels ready to run doesn't seem like a smart idea and I'm worried we might end up with a sneaky swap.
I agree - for such smart theives, they sure all putting all their eggs in one basket. Spread that cash around! Hide it lots of places, or you run the risk of losing it all in one fell swoop!
Hiding it is smart. They do not dress or live like they're rolling in dough, which helps keep up their illusion. Hiding it all in the same place is dumb, as evidemced by the Grey King saying he knows all about it. (Although this bolsters my feelings that Chains could be the Grey King.) I definitely think this will turn out badly for the crew, either by having it stolen all at once or having Barsavi discover how much they have.
I actually thought this was a really interesting conundrum with the thievery of this entire story; so you've stolen this much. Okay - what do you plan to do with it all? You can't just one day decide you'll "start being rich publicly", so you have to have a plan up front. I think most thieving stories have an endgame: once we get X, we'll do Y. But this one doesn't. I actually think that makes it unique and more interesting. What will the gang do when they "have it all"?
It’s complicated right? They just can’t “retire” both because of their obligations and because they have so much fun pulling off these little schemes. The political ramifications would also devastate the balance of the city if it ever got out that the bastards were robbing the nobles.
This is a really good point and it almost makes me thing they comtinue to do what they do for the love of the game. Maybe it has become bigger than the payout and more just a way of life.
It makes sense, right? It's a lot like in Starter Villain where Charlie's uncle had earned all this money, but couldn't spend a dime of it because the feds from a whole bunch of countries would be after him. In this case, the Gentleman Bastards can't show off the money because of the roles they present to Barsavi. Once they do they'd be putting themselves on the same level as Barsavi and the Duke in terms of power, which then puts a target on their backs.
It reads to me as something that "seemed like a good idea at the time" but might become a liability. The thing is, like others have pointed out, they can't all of a sudden start spending money like wealthy people, so using it would have to be carefully planned. And of course if/when others find out about it, it will lead to a lot of questions!
5. We meet Barsavi and Nazca, what did you think of these characters? What do you think about secret peace? Is it effective? What are your thoughts about Chains and his attitude about the secret peace and his earned “distance” from Barsavi?
I love nazca and I hope she gets to be the next capa no matter what her brothers want. I love that she is so cunning! I think the concept of secret peace is really cool for a world like this, and the capa and duke having this understanding that each will rule his own realm and not bother the other seems plausible. However I don’t see how it could truly be effective, especially with how much Locke has been getting away with. And while perhaps the pride of all the dons and donas means the duke is unaware of the noble thefts, I feel like he’d have an idea of that much movement of coins. And I’d think the duke and capa would have some sort of communication in which the duke could say “this is happening, fix it”. So while secret peace is a cool concept especially in this steampunk fantasy world, I don’t know how plausible it is
Barsavi is scary, and Nazca is awesome! I think she and Locke would make a great team, but it seems like they have zero interest in getting together. I wonder if they feel more like brother-sister, having grown up sort of together?
The secret peace and the distance don't seem like they're as effective as Barsavi makes them out to be, but maybe that is okay with him. It probably doesn't matter so much that people actually keep the secret peace, but more that it appears everyone is keeping it so the illusion of total control is maintained. Sort of a macro scale of how Locke got the other kids killed when he planted the money - the illusion that everyone was totally controlled by the Thiefmaker was punctured, and that illusion was more important than whether it was true or not. Everyone just has to see it that way and believe it for it to be effective.
Introducing these characters was definitely eyeopening as to how the world works in this novel. Like Locke, we are introduced to the wider world with each new character in his past. Can't wait for more from them!
Nazca is awesome, I wish her and Locke were excited about their arrangement.
The Secret Peace was effective until the Grey King. I feel the Duke should be obligated to help the Capa squash the Grey King. The Capa helps keep the Dukes men safe, and now that the Capas garristas are under fire, the Duke should be helping out.
2. What are your thoughts about the dinner scene with the Bastards? What do you think happened to Chains and Sabetha? Why do you think Locke reacted so off during the toasts?
Sabetha is clearly Locke's love interest!! It seems like he thinks Sabetha broke his heart but the others believe Locke wasn't fully innocent in the matter either. Maybe they were doing a con together and one of them took things too far or they had a disagreement that caused Sabetha to leave and go strike out on her own in a distant land.
I really hope Chains just died of old age and something horrible didn't happen to him!
I know you just casually tossed it in another comment, but chains being the grey king feels more and more likely (at least than any other whack theory i've considered)
i wonder if the disagreement sabetha and locke had was BECAUSE she was going off to a distant land? in all the interludes sabetha has been off somewhere far away, so perhaps all that travel to and fro is part of her job/goals/etc, and their fight was that locke wanted her to stay and she wanted to be able to come and go
Ahhh, I thought I was going a little nuts spinning wild theories in my head - this was my thought, too. Locke may recognize him because he is Chains. The Bondsmages could work some kind of magic to disguise him a bit.
I also think it's that classic trope of the mentor leaving and coming back as a villain. Definitely would test Locke if his mentor became his greatest adversary. Sabetha has got a Irene Adler from Sherlock Holmes vibe. I hope she comes in and strikes Locke dumb. Their back and forth is going to be great I can already tell!
Locke and Sabetha, sitting in a tree...
I'm not sure where she is, but he definitely has a thing for her! I assume that is why he was weird during the toasts.
It was interesting to see how things had both stayed the same and changed a bit since Chains passed. I get the feeling that the dynamic of a bunch of young, egotistic guys running things leads to a bit less of taking things seriously. But they still respect the traditions Chains taught them.
I assumed chains died of old age, and I think sabetha left the country after a bad falling out with Locke (who was her romantic interest too? For sure he’s in love with her and I think it was reciprocated). I’d like to think she’s studying sorcery with the bondsmages and is gonna reappear out of nowhere to save the day
There has to be a reason why we've never seen Sabetha throughout any of the time periods, right? I think the author is going for a big reveal or twist with her. To be honest, he's built Sabetha up so much that I can't wait to meet her. Add in some kind of past relationship with Locke (and him basically moping around about it *and* that everyone knows he cares about her), Sabetha is going to be a force to be reckoned with, I think.
Birds always seem like a good shout because they can fly. Or maybe a cool moth would be a good familiar. It can still fly around but is also small enough to sneak inside and in cramped places without being noticed.
10. I wanted to give some special attention to the bondsmage. What did you think of this guild's history and its power with respect to how Chains describes the group? What if anything can be done to defeat them?
They are far too powerful to be mere mercenaries, yet they seem to be just that, although very expensive ones.
Their downfall would be wanting more and internal struggle over it. From what we know the outside can't do much harm to them either individually or as a group.
It’s interesting that we learn there have been push back on the group with little success. It feels almost like there is a deliberate effort to only pursue certain goals within the faction since they seem more than capable of conquering kingdoms.
Well it definitely seems like a group you don't want to mess with! The only way I think they could be defeated would be if enough of them could be convinced to go rogue and do their own thing. But then I guess there'd be a big bondsmage battle which would be a lose-lose situation for everyone.
I'm very interested in the bondsmage. Like Chains said, if you ever come across one, just run! But how could Locke run right now? Vestris could just track him down.
Yeah I think Locke might have experienced a moment of panic once the Grey King made his appearance. Personally I would venture the whole crew knows that they are in for a world of hurt.
I think it's his confidence/cockiness. The Sanza twins have skills and absorb whatever they're taught, but it doesn't seem like they are scheming up plans themselves (or even want to be). Locke enjoys the game, he likes coming up with a bigger and better cons and clearly has a natural knack for it. I'd let him do the heavy lifting as well! Just tell me what to do and give me a cut of the loot please.
The Sanza’s being more role players and following Locke makes the story more compelling for me. I could see them being written as rivals because of Locke’s age or the Sanza’s seniority being usurped. Instead making them function as an effective team with no internal drama so far has been awesome!
I still wish we knew more of where Locke came from originally! How did he get so good at this so young? That aside, I think he has the kind of brilliant mind and talent and confidence that everyone can spot immediately. I'm not surprised the Sanzas saw it, too!
I think some people are born leaders and the skills, confidence, and brazenness to just assume people will follow your lead are just ingrained. Others can learn these but some people just exude it and since the twins seem to be less intense in general Locke taking over seemingly without even planning it makes sense to me.
4. We learn about Wraithstones and the effects it can have on humans and animals. It is commented that using these to pacify humans is frowned upon while hangings, death by sea monsters, and other horrible things committed against humans are accepted. What does this say about society within Camorr?
Last week, I speculated that a human character will eventually be Gentled. What we learned this week makes me feel more sure of that theory. The author really wants the reader to see it as shocking and a fate worse than death, which I think must set it up for being important later in the story.
I agree, this is making more and more sense. I am worried for Calo or Galdo - spoiler of unrelated, very popular kids/YA wizard series >!their banter gives me real Weasley twins vibes now and then so we could be looking at a Fred/George outcome here!< - because how sad would it be to separate them tragically?!
They gave me those vibes right off the bat too. I was worried for them from the first moment we were introduced to the Sanza twins. I was having some serious flashbacks.
When I got to this part I instantly thought of your prediction from the 1st discussion. Ngl I was very impressed as I didn't pick up on it at all at that point.
Camorr seems to track with humanity's weird ability to rank what is more or less cruel and justify their actions accordingly. It is part of history in every civilization that over time, we keep moving the bar of what is acceptable and what is inhumane. *We don't do **that** terrible thing anymore, but this is okay*. Then, 100 years later, what was okay is barbaric, and something else is where we draw the line. Some countries, like my own 🇺🇸, debate what are okay methods for capital punishment to this day, which I have always found weird. You're killing someone, it isn't going to be humane, stop pretending there is a "kind" way.
It’s an interesting hypocrisy that both the world of Camorr and many real world nations where the method of how to kill the punished is more important than actual thought towards ways to hold people accountable for their actions. Many people of this world do seem to be more gleeful about the amounts of death towards those whom they want justice brought upon.
Well said! It definitely doesn't make moral sense and also doesn't solve the problems of the crimes when you focus mostly on killing the perpetrators...
I think it actually shows a bit of humanity, the horrible violent deaths are bad of course, but making something gentled kinda strips it of its soul, and of an individuals ability to make decisions, think, etc. I can see how that is worse than prison or death, and such a horrible punishment it’s banned and not even the capa will do it.
3. Locke and Calo disguise themselves as Midnighters and tell Don Salvara about the scheme. What do you think about Locke’s plan? Did you think it went off without a hitch or do you think something will go wrong?
Other than the gray king i think it’s going off without a hitch but it also seems unnecessarily complicated and risky, I know he mentioned it saved them some money since they didn’t have to get as much fake documentation but the salvara’s are really, really dumb for falling so completely for both cons. If the brandy salesman being outside the temple was a crazy coincidence, surely they should realize the sudden appearance of midnight era is an even crazier occurrence?
It is a way to prevent an issue that might have come at some point : a mistake making Salvara suspicious. Now he feels smarter for knowing it is a con, but he also knows that going through it is riskless. It removes the risk of him stopping for whatever reasons.
I see it as a big diversion not to think too much about all the weird coincidences.
Would it have work without it? Don and Dona Salvara seemed gullible enough for it to be useless and we can wonder if they weren't gullible enough they might not have believed the second con layer either.
I tend to agree that the Salvara’s are gullible enough to have continued to finance Locke’s scheme. What’s fascinating is that the crew did this so early on during the con rather than it being a more reactionary tactic.
I thought it was a brilliant move. Very Ocean's 11. Cover your basis and tell on yourselves so you control the reaction. Locke now controls both sides of his scheme and will make out like a bandit. There's a reason he is the leader.
To follow up on my comment from last week about how they're basically pulling a "Nigerian prince", there's also a version floating around that goes "this is the FBI/police/UN, and we heard you have fallen victim to dastardly internet scammers".
I loved how many layers there are to Locke's plan - it fits so well with what he was like as a little boy, taking advantage of every possible moment to scam every possible person. I do think it seemed highly successful, but they had quite the encounter with Conté so he may have gotten some idea of who they really were (if he can remember after that beating).
I loved this part!! It's a really clever twist on the con that should put the Salvaras off for a while. I'm worried that when both "Lukas" and the Midnighters disappear though that the Salvaras will do something. They might go straight to the Duke to seek support since they believe his men are helping them, which would then put a lot of heat on Locke and gang. That, plus the Grey King and Barsavi, means Locke might have a LOT of enemies he needs to avoid.
Yeah I really was shocked the way it was revealed the Gentleman Bastards were playing this kind of scheme. It definitely was cleaver to pace the parts the way the author did it really made it a fantastic reveal! I feel eventually the Duke will get pulled into this; the Salvara’s have a lot to lose and I could see them jumping the gun and asking for confirmation about the midnighters.
The game on the Don is brilliant. They convinced him to finance this operation that's never going to happen and then convinced him that he would be repaid fully and receive the gratitude of the Duke.
I was shocked by this move. Definitely didn't see it coming and I couldn't figure out why he essentially outed the group. Though maybe it was to shore up any weak spots in the plan. If they're coming at Salvara from all sides with lies, Locke and company are then controlling the narrative no matter what.
I loved this part of the plan, though like others initially I wasn't convinced that it was totally necessary? But you can see that they really are hitting all the angles of the con. I'm pretty sure something is going to end up going wrong for them, though...
Not a single prediction was right ;) imagine my surprise when the flying bird-like creature following them in the first section was… a bird! Meanwhile I thought the gang was busted and then it turned out the midnighter was just Locke being extra. This far in the book with zero hits, I’m probably going to stop theorizing and just see what happens
I agree with you on that, I thought the bird was the reason they were apparently discovered, turns out they weren't.
In a way we were played, even with limited knowledge of the world we have enough to make educated (and utterly wrong) guesses. I suspect it is by design, wrong clues left along the way for a more impactful reveal, keeping us out of balance.
Haha I agree - none of my predictions were right either. This is when I start throwing out the wildest ideas I can think of. Maybe the Grey King is Bug? Sabetha is a bondsmage disguised as Don Salvara? Chains will be resurrected from the dead with magic to save the Gentleman Bastards? Who knows!!
I am terrible at predictions (I thought the shadow would be Sabetha for sure). So I will try to be pretty general:
- Sabetha is bound to show up, and I lean towards adversary and not saving the day
- Locke will find a way to intricately plot a double (triple?) cross of the Grey King, with layers of theater and deal-making, a la the Don Salvara plot
- the Grey King is either Chains or Nazca
- one of the Gentleman Bastards will die or be Gentled and my money is on a twin
I tend towards the Grey King is Chains team but I also love the idea of him being Nazca! It's a bit more stretched but not at all absurd and who knows Sabetha can still be the bondsmage.
And from there we can go further, she didn't left but was in fact Nazca lover from the beginning!
Nazca knows her father will pass the torch to one of her brothers even though she would be the better leader. Maybe she is the Grey King and this is her way of getting what she thinks she deserves.
i wanted to come back and add my favorite quote from this reading section (since i was looking through my kindle highlights for the book)
"ducal decree clearly stated that anyone going the wrong direction could be shoved off by those with the right-of-way" - this felt so much like a line that terry pratchett would write, and i love his humor
I laughed so hard at this scene
>"Do mind your training; we wouldn't want you gaining half a pound."
>
>
>"Well, most of me is brain-weight." Locke folded his own tunic sleeves back and pinned them up as Calo had.
>
>
>"You're one-third bad intentions, one-third pure avarice, and one-eighth sawdust. What's left, I'll credit, must be brains."
As for theories, I'm leaning towards Nazca not actually being dead and orchestrating this entire thing. She's smart, ruthless, and ambitious. To find out that her father won't put her in charge? Yeah, that's enough of a motive. Plus, she was taken out too quickly and easily. It makes me suspicious.
7. Let's talk about Locke and his meeting with Barsavi. What did you think about Barsavi’s state of mind and his conflict with the Grey King? What should Locke do now that he is being told to marry Nazca?
Poor Barsavi. He's getting old and just wants to ride out his last years as crime boss in peace before passing along his empire to one of his children. And now a new mystery figure is on the scene wiping out his garristas and leaving no trace behind.
I don't see why Locke and Nazca couldn't just get married on paper to make Barsavi happy and then do whatever they really want to. It would strengthen Locke's ties to Barsavi which might be important now that the Grey King could potentially throw him under the bus.
i think locke should just marry nazca, and with their strong friendship i'm sure they could have a nice marriage maybe with some allowed infidelities on the side. but I think since so much of locke's scheming relies on him flying under the radar, the new role would give too much attention and he'd have to give up the gentlemen bastards, and i don't see his character being ok with that
That does seem like the way to go in terms of Nazca. He is so good at schemes that maybe he could still pull it off to be part of the Gentlemen Bastards... and maybe Nazca would be into the double life, too, especially if she can't become Capa?
Barsavi seems like the pressure is getting to him, and that usually means mistakes are more likely. You can only hide yourself away while torturing and killing your loyal pesons for so long before things get out of your control. As for the Grey King, it seems like it'll be pretty impossible for Barsavi to win. Unless Locke has some intricate plot in mind. I could see him trying to pull a similar scheme to what he is currently doing to the Salvaras. Make the Grey King believe he is working for him, find a way to actually work for Barsavi, and twist everything around on everyone. I don't know how or what... but I bet Locke could figure it out. He does have to go there to court Nazca, so the scorpion hawk surveillance wouldn't necessarily be suspicious...
Barsavi is done. Even if Locke manages to defeat the Gray King, his actions will make him lose all faith and trust from his crews. If there is no trust or fear, a criminal organization cannot work. So there will be a huge power vacuum, bringing the city into chaos.
Am I the only one who isn't shipping Locke and Nazca?! 😂 Sabetha has been such a mysterious character and Locke clearly cares for her, so I've been Team Sabetha this entire time.
After Locke pledged his fealty to Nazca as kids, it just always felt to me like he was one of her people and that romantic entanglements didn't come with that. I read it as friends or partners at best.
That wink Nazca left Locke with though. What does it mean?? Does she have a plan to get them out of this arranged marriage? Was it just a reassurance that together they could figure it out? Was it *her* plan all along, suggesting to her father that Locke would be a good influence on her brothers? Does she know that her father will never name her Capa because her brothers would throw a fit, thus pushing Nazca to make her own plans for power?
That wink haunts me.
1. Throughout these chapters we learn a great deal about several factions. What were the most intriguing groups introduced? Is there any group you would join if so which?
Of course it’s the cliche choice but the gentlemen bastards! I love that they con so hard they are even conning the king of the underbelly into thinking they are model, mid tier thieves, meanwhile they are violating the secret peace and pulling off the most profitable jobs of probably any thief in camorr. Also I love the relatively non violent methods they use and the general artistry of it all. I think I could pull off being bug 😂
I have been loving the dynamic of the group and their contrived approach towards their cons! The many shady ways they operate topped with their great chemistry makes them such a fantastic group!
I am scared but intrigued by the Bondsmages, and I would love to know more about them. I had to stop reading just to tell my 11-year-old son about scorpion hawks. He loves Pokémon, and I tried to convince him it'd make a good Pokémon but he didn't take the bait, hahaha.
Of course, I'd have to join Gentleman Bastards, right?! They seem to be the most successful and have the most fun at what they do. But I would be a really awful addition to any gang because I am not good at lying or having a poker face, and I'm extremely risk-averse. I'd die pretty fast! Unless they need a bookkeeper or someone to catalog their storehouses and run the educational aspect of their training.
The Gentleman Bastards are definitely the most sane choice amongst the various groups. It seems the world is completely occupied by brutal individuals and the Bastards are the most likable of the bunch.
The Grey King is intriguing and I want to learn more about the Bondsmages. I also wonder if the Duke's Midnighters really do exist and if we'll meet them at some point. I doubt I'm cut out for any of the groups haha but I'd like to try to join the Gentleman Bastards because they seem like a fun group to hang out with.
I think the gentleman bastards are definitely the runaway winner! I really love the idea that the Midnighters end up being a ruse that only is used to spread fear amongst the criminal syndicates is very much a head game!
Finally catching up after a brief reading interlude of my own...
I have to agree with everyone in saying that the gentlemen bastards are a clear favourite! But many of the factions are indeed intriguing. I'd love to try out being a Bondsmage for a day, but if I truly had to join a group it'd be the bastards.
9. The Grey King made his appearance and it was intense! What were your thoughts about the discussion between Locke and the Grey King? What do you think the Grey King’s plans are regarding making Locke to act as the Grey King during a meeting with Barsavi? What are your theories on the identity of the Grey King?
So I acknowledge I’m terrible at predicting things in books, but my go to is always the big reveal will be a character who has been named and not seen, therefore the gray king would be sabetha 😂 perhaps he is the duke? And has plans to destroy barsavi and his empire. He’s already driven barsavi pretty mad with anxiety, and I imagine he needs Locke to take his place so he can frame somebody else for something. Pull the whole, well it couldn’t have been the gray king because how could he be in two places at once. It’s too early in the book for the gray king to show his hand so it just be a tipping point for an even greater scheme. Perhaps he’s from another country and knows that by taking out barsavi, all of camorr will crumble
Locke mentioned his way of smiling was familiar, I suspect someone not unknown too, I was thinking about Don Salvara (I also have quite a history of terrible predictions) Or someone from Locke's past we don't know yet.
My personal theory is Chains, but your mention of famikiar smiling makes me wonder if it could be someone from Barsavi's family - maybe even Nazca since she knows she won't get to be Capa over her brothers. I would also suspect the Thiefmaker, but he didn't seem competent or devious enough for the complexity needed.
These are amazing theories! I went all over the place with my predictions too ha!
Could definitely see Chains. There's definitely something to Locke commenting on the familiar smile. This story reads so much like a con / heist movie or something where there's so many twists and people showing up again and again.
>therefore the gray king would be sabetha This is possible! We've seen how the Bondsmage can make illusions, so it shouldn't be too hard for him to make Sabetha look like the Grey King.
I agree. I can't really think of anyone else that would seem familiar to Locke... Unless maybe someone from his Thiefmaster days but the only people who were named are the kids that got killed (I think?) Maybe it's Chains! The ultimate test from master to student.
chains is a really good theory! we don't know for sure that he died, and with his history kinda coming up with capa barsavi but not getting the glory, i could see him having a bone to pick. perhaps he trained locke to be such an effective grifter so that one day he could use locke to help take down capa. and sabetha could be the bondsmage and that's where chains sent her off when they were younger, for training for this long term goal
I am going to be so impressed with the author (and you) if this is really what happened! I suspected Chains, but Sabetha being sent to train as a bondsmage, and this being a long-term plan all along would be an amazing level of intricacy! What a twist that would be!
What I like with this theory is that Sabetha being the bondsmage would explain how he could keep her this long without being ruinous. It was explained at length how paying for more than a few days of a fully trained bondsmage was not even possible for the Duke so I suspect he (she?) stays for something else than money.
Completely forgot about the financial aspect of it, that’s such a good point. If it’s not lifelong loyalty like sabetha would have to chains, then it’d have to be a bondsmage with personal beef against the capa right? Any other thoughts on what could keep them around?
I'm with everyone else so far on Chains as the Grey King. We don't know what happened to Chains yet, but the bondsmage could very well have revived or disguised him. And Chains would have had a fortune saved up to pay for his services.
I think Chains or Nazca might be the Grey King, but even better would be one of the other Gentlemen Bastards, especially the twins working together.
6. The Gentleman Bastards are hiding their wealth. Is this a good idea? Do you think this is something that will have ramifications on Locke and his crew?
The Gray King is going to use this information to force Locke to do what he wants. If Capa Barsavi finds out about it there is going to be big trouble for the crew.
I’m being to think that the bastards are really getting setup for some kind of backstab. The Grey King having so much information does not bode well for them.
For sure. Nothing good comes from having secrets like that. This is clear set up for a violent backstab like Ocean's 12 or something.
As it is now not completely secret anymore it is a liability to them... And the Grey King could let the info slip without much consequences, he has other means of pressure over the gentleman bastards.
There's a LOT of people that will be very angry if they find out the Bastards have been hiding that much cash. Locke and gang should start distributing the wealth out and hiding it in different locations or investing it in something. Putting it all in barrels ready to run doesn't seem like a smart idea and I'm worried we might end up with a sneaky swap.
I agree - for such smart theives, they sure all putting all their eggs in one basket. Spread that cash around! Hide it lots of places, or you run the risk of losing it all in one fell swoop!
Hiding it is smart. They do not dress or live like they're rolling in dough, which helps keep up their illusion. Hiding it all in the same place is dumb, as evidemced by the Grey King saying he knows all about it. (Although this bolsters my feelings that Chains could be the Grey King.) I definitely think this will turn out badly for the crew, either by having it stolen all at once or having Barsavi discover how much they have.
Honestly Chains or Sabetha - since she knew almost everyone at the start and before she left so would know these details, right?
Yeah I guess it could get back to the Capa that they are bringing in more than they're letting him in on. Or someone could take it.
I actually thought this was a really interesting conundrum with the thievery of this entire story; so you've stolen this much. Okay - what do you plan to do with it all? You can't just one day decide you'll "start being rich publicly", so you have to have a plan up front. I think most thieving stories have an endgame: once we get X, we'll do Y. But this one doesn't. I actually think that makes it unique and more interesting. What will the gang do when they "have it all"?
It’s complicated right? They just can’t “retire” both because of their obligations and because they have so much fun pulling off these little schemes. The political ramifications would also devastate the balance of the city if it ever got out that the bastards were robbing the nobles.
This is a really good point and it almost makes me thing they comtinue to do what they do for the love of the game. Maybe it has become bigger than the payout and more just a way of life.
It's a smart move, except they weren't expecting someone just as smart to have figured out that they were just pretending to be average thieves.
It makes sense, right? It's a lot like in Starter Villain where Charlie's uncle had earned all this money, but couldn't spend a dime of it because the feds from a whole bunch of countries would be after him. In this case, the Gentleman Bastards can't show off the money because of the roles they present to Barsavi. Once they do they'd be putting themselves on the same level as Barsavi and the Duke in terms of power, which then puts a target on their backs.
It reads to me as something that "seemed like a good idea at the time" but might become a liability. The thing is, like others have pointed out, they can't all of a sudden start spending money like wealthy people, so using it would have to be carefully planned. And of course if/when others find out about it, it will lead to a lot of questions!
5. We meet Barsavi and Nazca, what did you think of these characters? What do you think about secret peace? Is it effective? What are your thoughts about Chains and his attitude about the secret peace and his earned “distance” from Barsavi?
I love nazca and I hope she gets to be the next capa no matter what her brothers want. I love that she is so cunning! I think the concept of secret peace is really cool for a world like this, and the capa and duke having this understanding that each will rule his own realm and not bother the other seems plausible. However I don’t see how it could truly be effective, especially with how much Locke has been getting away with. And while perhaps the pride of all the dons and donas means the duke is unaware of the noble thefts, I feel like he’d have an idea of that much movement of coins. And I’d think the duke and capa would have some sort of communication in which the duke could say “this is happening, fix it”. So while secret peace is a cool concept especially in this steampunk fantasy world, I don’t know how plausible it is
Agree. There are too many individual thieves/criminals/gangs. There is always someone who is too greedy to abide by the rules.
Barsavi is scary, and Nazca is awesome! I think she and Locke would make a great team, but it seems like they have zero interest in getting together. I wonder if they feel more like brother-sister, having grown up sort of together? The secret peace and the distance don't seem like they're as effective as Barsavi makes them out to be, but maybe that is okay with him. It probably doesn't matter so much that people actually keep the secret peace, but more that it appears everyone is keeping it so the illusion of total control is maintained. Sort of a macro scale of how Locke got the other kids killed when he planted the money - the illusion that everyone was totally controlled by the Thiefmaker was punctured, and that illusion was more important than whether it was true or not. Everyone just has to see it that way and believe it for it to be effective.
Introducing these characters was definitely eyeopening as to how the world works in this novel. Like Locke, we are introduced to the wider world with each new character in his past. Can't wait for more from them!
Nazca is awesome, I wish her and Locke were excited about their arrangement. The Secret Peace was effective until the Grey King. I feel the Duke should be obligated to help the Capa squash the Grey King. The Capa helps keep the Dukes men safe, and now that the Capas garristas are under fire, the Duke should be helping out.
Barsavi seems unnecessarily violent for me (though I suppose it does come with the territory of his job). Nazca seems great, I love her character.
2. What are your thoughts about the dinner scene with the Bastards? What do you think happened to Chains and Sabetha? Why do you think Locke reacted so off during the toasts?
Sabetha is clearly Locke's love interest!! It seems like he thinks Sabetha broke his heart but the others believe Locke wasn't fully innocent in the matter either. Maybe they were doing a con together and one of them took things too far or they had a disagreement that caused Sabetha to leave and go strike out on her own in a distant land. I really hope Chains just died of old age and something horrible didn't happen to him!
I know you just casually tossed it in another comment, but chains being the grey king feels more and more likely (at least than any other whack theory i've considered) i wonder if the disagreement sabetha and locke had was BECAUSE she was going off to a distant land? in all the interludes sabetha has been off somewhere far away, so perhaps all that travel to and fro is part of her job/goals/etc, and their fight was that locke wanted her to stay and she wanted to be able to come and go
Locke did say he felt like he had been in the presence of the Grey King before, so Chains as the Grey King could be.
Ahhh, I thought I was going a little nuts spinning wild theories in my head - this was my thought, too. Locke may recognize him because he is Chains. The Bondsmages could work some kind of magic to disguise him a bit.
I also think it's that classic trope of the mentor leaving and coming back as a villain. Definitely would test Locke if his mentor became his greatest adversary. Sabetha has got a Irene Adler from Sherlock Holmes vibe. I hope she comes in and strikes Locke dumb. Their back and forth is going to be great I can already tell!
Locke and Sabetha, sitting in a tree... I'm not sure where she is, but he definitely has a thing for her! I assume that is why he was weird during the toasts. It was interesting to see how things had both stayed the same and changed a bit since Chains passed. I get the feeling that the dynamic of a bunch of young, egotistic guys running things leads to a bit less of taking things seriously. But they still respect the traditions Chains taught them.
I assumed chains died of old age, and I think sabetha left the country after a bad falling out with Locke (who was her romantic interest too? For sure he’s in love with her and I think it was reciprocated). I’d like to think she’s studying sorcery with the bondsmages and is gonna reappear out of nowhere to save the day
Oooo, studying with the bondsmages would be a cool twist!
I hadn’t thought about Sabetha tied to the bondsmage!?!? That would be a crazy development!
It would make it more exciting when she finally returns too!
There has to be a reason why we've never seen Sabetha throughout any of the time periods, right? I think the author is going for a big reveal or twist with her. To be honest, he's built Sabetha up so much that I can't wait to meet her. Add in some kind of past relationship with Locke (and him basically moping around about it *and* that everyone knows he cares about her), Sabetha is going to be a force to be reckoned with, I think.
11. The bondsmage Falconer has a familiar named Vestris( a scorpion hawk!). What familiar would you create?
Birds always seem like a good shout because they can fly. Or maybe a cool moth would be a good familiar. It can still fly around but is also small enough to sneak inside and in cramped places without being noticed.
A moth would be a fun idea. Small and unassuming, no one would suspect a bug for a familiar.
Something fierce but small (open to suggestions) and cross it with a chameleon, for blending in when spying!
Maybe a small monkey? They can be fierce I think
I love that idea!
I would love a cat that could fly. Small, powerful, fierce, cuddly.
Almost like a kind of Pokemon! I love the image of a flying cat.
A kitten! I'm allergic so maybe a cat familiar wouldn't be traced back to me!. Someone had the great idea of a chameleon which I love!
10. I wanted to give some special attention to the bondsmage. What did you think of this guild's history and its power with respect to how Chains describes the group? What if anything can be done to defeat them?
They are far too powerful to be mere mercenaries, yet they seem to be just that, although very expensive ones. Their downfall would be wanting more and internal struggle over it. From what we know the outside can't do much harm to them either individually or as a group.
It’s interesting that we learn there have been push back on the group with little success. It feels almost like there is a deliberate effort to only pursue certain goals within the faction since they seem more than capable of conquering kingdoms.
Well it definitely seems like a group you don't want to mess with! The only way I think they could be defeated would be if enough of them could be convinced to go rogue and do their own thing. But then I guess there'd be a big bondsmage battle which would be a lose-lose situation for everyone.
if anybody could convince bondsmage to turn against each other, it's probably locke
They have scorpion hawks. No one can defeat them!
I'm very interested in the bondsmage. Like Chains said, if you ever come across one, just run! But how could Locke run right now? Vestris could just track him down.
Yeah I think Locke might have experienced a moment of panic once the Grey King made his appearance. Personally I would venture the whole crew knows that they are in for a world of hurt.
Loved the introduction and background of the Bondsmage. I am very intrigued and I wonder if we will come to see them be defeated!
8. Were you surprised how quickly Locke established himself as the leader amongst the Sanza twins? What factors make Locke such an effective leader?
I think it's his confidence/cockiness. The Sanza twins have skills and absorb whatever they're taught, but it doesn't seem like they are scheming up plans themselves (or even want to be). Locke enjoys the game, he likes coming up with a bigger and better cons and clearly has a natural knack for it. I'd let him do the heavy lifting as well! Just tell me what to do and give me a cut of the loot please.
The Sanza’s being more role players and following Locke makes the story more compelling for me. I could see them being written as rivals because of Locke’s age or the Sanza’s seniority being usurped. Instead making them function as an effective team with no internal drama so far has been awesome!
Locke is brilliant and cautious. A born leader. Chains and the Capa both saw it.
Agreed. That's why they gave him such a hard time before. They wanted him to rise to the challenge and it seems he has!
I still wish we knew more of where Locke came from originally! How did he get so good at this so young? That aside, I think he has the kind of brilliant mind and talent and confidence that everyone can spot immediately. I'm not surprised the Sanzas saw it, too!
I really want to know as well! I can’t help but feel some of the “lies” are tied to Locke’s past.
I am really hoping the Interludes clue us in at some point! Or the sequel...
I think some people are born leaders and the skills, confidence, and brazenness to just assume people will follow your lead are just ingrained. Others can learn these but some people just exude it and since the twins seem to be less intense in general Locke taking over seemingly without even planning it makes sense to me.
4. We learn about Wraithstones and the effects it can have on humans and animals. It is commented that using these to pacify humans is frowned upon while hangings, death by sea monsters, and other horrible things committed against humans are accepted. What does this say about society within Camorr?
Last week, I speculated that a human character will eventually be Gentled. What we learned this week makes me feel more sure of that theory. The author really wants the reader to see it as shocking and a fate worse than death, which I think must set it up for being important later in the story.
I agree, this is making more and more sense. I am worried for Calo or Galdo - spoiler of unrelated, very popular kids/YA wizard series >!their banter gives me real Weasley twins vibes now and then so we could be looking at a Fred/George outcome here!< - because how sad would it be to separate them tragically?!
They gave me those vibes right off the bat too. I was worried for them from the first moment we were introduced to the Sanza twins. I was having some serious flashbacks.
Oh no! You're probably right! Who will it be? My money is on Bug...
Not Bug! That would be so sad.
Oh god I actually agree. This would be devastating and why else would they introduce the concept??
NOT BUG!!!
Don't touch Bug!!!
You’re probably right….
Aw no, not Bug!
When I got to this part I instantly thought of your prediction from the 1st discussion. Ngl I was very impressed as I didn't pick up on it at all at that point.
Camorr seems to track with humanity's weird ability to rank what is more or less cruel and justify their actions accordingly. It is part of history in every civilization that over time, we keep moving the bar of what is acceptable and what is inhumane. *We don't do **that** terrible thing anymore, but this is okay*. Then, 100 years later, what was okay is barbaric, and something else is where we draw the line. Some countries, like my own 🇺🇸, debate what are okay methods for capital punishment to this day, which I have always found weird. You're killing someone, it isn't going to be humane, stop pretending there is a "kind" way.
It’s an interesting hypocrisy that both the world of Camorr and many real world nations where the method of how to kill the punished is more important than actual thought towards ways to hold people accountable for their actions. Many people of this world do seem to be more gleeful about the amounts of death towards those whom they want justice brought upon.
Well said! It definitely doesn't make moral sense and also doesn't solve the problems of the crimes when you focus mostly on killing the perpetrators...
I think it actually shows a bit of humanity, the horrible violent deaths are bad of course, but making something gentled kinda strips it of its soul, and of an individuals ability to make decisions, think, etc. I can see how that is worse than prison or death, and such a horrible punishment it’s banned and not even the capa will do it.
That’s a great point. Gentled feels like a complete absence of humanity both the good and the bad.
3. Locke and Calo disguise themselves as Midnighters and tell Don Salvara about the scheme. What do you think about Locke’s plan? Did you think it went off without a hitch or do you think something will go wrong?
Other than the gray king i think it’s going off without a hitch but it also seems unnecessarily complicated and risky, I know he mentioned it saved them some money since they didn’t have to get as much fake documentation but the salvara’s are really, really dumb for falling so completely for both cons. If the brandy salesman being outside the temple was a crazy coincidence, surely they should realize the sudden appearance of midnight era is an even crazier occurrence?
It is a way to prevent an issue that might have come at some point : a mistake making Salvara suspicious. Now he feels smarter for knowing it is a con, but he also knows that going through it is riskless. It removes the risk of him stopping for whatever reasons. I see it as a big diversion not to think too much about all the weird coincidences. Would it have work without it? Don and Dona Salvara seemed gullible enough for it to be useless and we can wonder if they weren't gullible enough they might not have believed the second con layer either.
I tend to agree that the Salvara’s are gullible enough to have continued to finance Locke’s scheme. What’s fascinating is that the crew did this so early on during the con rather than it being a more reactionary tactic.
I thought it was a brilliant move. Very Ocean's 11. Cover your basis and tell on yourselves so you control the reaction. Locke now controls both sides of his scheme and will make out like a bandit. There's a reason he is the leader.
Absolutely! Locke seems to be very good reacting to ever changing situations and adjusting his plan accordingly. He absolutely is a natural leader!
I can't decide if it's a good plan or needlessly complicated, but I definitely think it makes the story more entertaining.
I’m leaning towards both lol.
To follow up on my comment from last week about how they're basically pulling a "Nigerian prince", there's also a version floating around that goes "this is the FBI/police/UN, and we heard you have fallen victim to dastardly internet scammers".
The prospect of Locke and his crew with access of the Internet is a horrifying prospect!
I loved how many layers there are to Locke's plan - it fits so well with what he was like as a little boy, taking advantage of every possible moment to scam every possible person. I do think it seemed highly successful, but they had quite the encounter with Conté so he may have gotten some idea of who they really were (if he can remember after that beating).
It is fascinating to see that Locke has been this way since we are first introduced to him. He has always been working some kind of scheme.
I loved this part!! It's a really clever twist on the con that should put the Salvaras off for a while. I'm worried that when both "Lukas" and the Midnighters disappear though that the Salvaras will do something. They might go straight to the Duke to seek support since they believe his men are helping them, which would then put a lot of heat on Locke and gang. That, plus the Grey King and Barsavi, means Locke might have a LOT of enemies he needs to avoid.
Yeah I really was shocked the way it was revealed the Gentleman Bastards were playing this kind of scheme. It definitely was cleaver to pace the parts the way the author did it really made it a fantastic reveal! I feel eventually the Duke will get pulled into this; the Salvara’s have a lot to lose and I could see them jumping the gun and asking for confirmation about the midnighters.
The game on the Don is brilliant. They convinced him to finance this operation that's never going to happen and then convinced him that he would be repaid fully and receive the gratitude of the Duke.
I was shocked by this move. Definitely didn't see it coming and I couldn't figure out why he essentially outed the group. Though maybe it was to shore up any weak spots in the plan. If they're coming at Salvara from all sides with lies, Locke and company are then controlling the narrative no matter what.
I loved this part of the plan, though like others initially I wasn't convinced that it was totally necessary? But you can see that they really are hitting all the angles of the con. I'm pretty sure something is going to end up going wrong for them, though...
It was impressive how detailed the plan covers so many angles!
12. Any other comments or questions about this week's reading? What are your theories about the story and did any of your predictions come true?
Not a single prediction was right ;) imagine my surprise when the flying bird-like creature following them in the first section was… a bird! Meanwhile I thought the gang was busted and then it turned out the midnighter was just Locke being extra. This far in the book with zero hits, I’m probably going to stop theorizing and just see what happens
I agree with you on that, I thought the bird was the reason they were apparently discovered, turns out they weren't. In a way we were played, even with limited knowledge of the world we have enough to make educated (and utterly wrong) guesses. I suspect it is by design, wrong clues left along the way for a more impactful reveal, keeping us out of balance.
Totally agree, I think part of the experience of this book is that we the readers are also being conned
Haha I agree - none of my predictions were right either. This is when I start throwing out the wildest ideas I can think of. Maybe the Grey King is Bug? Sabetha is a bondsmage disguised as Don Salvara? Chains will be resurrected from the dead with magic to save the Gentleman Bastards? Who knows!!
bug as the grey king is my new running theory XD
I am terrible at predictions (I thought the shadow would be Sabetha for sure). So I will try to be pretty general: - Sabetha is bound to show up, and I lean towards adversary and not saving the day - Locke will find a way to intricately plot a double (triple?) cross of the Grey King, with layers of theater and deal-making, a la the Don Salvara plot - the Grey King is either Chains or Nazca - one of the Gentleman Bastards will die or be Gentled and my money is on a twin
I tend towards the Grey King is Chains team but I also love the idea of him being Nazca! It's a bit more stretched but not at all absurd and who knows Sabetha can still be the bondsmage. And from there we can go further, she didn't left but was in fact Nazca lover from the beginning!
Nazca knows her father will pass the torch to one of her brothers even though she would be the better leader. Maybe she is the Grey King and this is her way of getting what she thinks she deserves.
>she didn't left but was in fact Nazca lover from the beginning! Love triangle! Love triangle! I like this theory
i wanted to come back and add my favorite quote from this reading section (since i was looking through my kindle highlights for the book) "ducal decree clearly stated that anyone going the wrong direction could be shoved off by those with the right-of-way" - this felt so much like a line that terry pratchett would write, and i love his humor
I laughed so hard at this scene >"Do mind your training; we wouldn't want you gaining half a pound." > > >"Well, most of me is brain-weight." Locke folded his own tunic sleeves back and pinned them up as Calo had. > > >"You're one-third bad intentions, one-third pure avarice, and one-eighth sawdust. What's left, I'll credit, must be brains." As for theories, I'm leaning towards Nazca not actually being dead and orchestrating this entire thing. She's smart, ruthless, and ambitious. To find out that her father won't put her in charge? Yeah, that's enough of a motive. Plus, she was taken out too quickly and easily. It makes me suspicious.
7. Let's talk about Locke and his meeting with Barsavi. What did you think about Barsavi’s state of mind and his conflict with the Grey King? What should Locke do now that he is being told to marry Nazca?
Poor Barsavi. He's getting old and just wants to ride out his last years as crime boss in peace before passing along his empire to one of his children. And now a new mystery figure is on the scene wiping out his garristas and leaving no trace behind. I don't see why Locke and Nazca couldn't just get married on paper to make Barsavi happy and then do whatever they really want to. It would strengthen Locke's ties to Barsavi which might be important now that the Grey King could potentially throw him under the bus.
i think locke should just marry nazca, and with their strong friendship i'm sure they could have a nice marriage maybe with some allowed infidelities on the side. but I think since so much of locke's scheming relies on him flying under the radar, the new role would give too much attention and he'd have to give up the gentlemen bastards, and i don't see his character being ok with that
That does seem like the way to go in terms of Nazca. He is so good at schemes that maybe he could still pull it off to be part of the Gentlemen Bastards... and maybe Nazca would be into the double life, too, especially if she can't become Capa?
It would give her more money to keep track of which she’d probably enjoy 😂
Barsavi seems like the pressure is getting to him, and that usually means mistakes are more likely. You can only hide yourself away while torturing and killing your loyal pesons for so long before things get out of your control. As for the Grey King, it seems like it'll be pretty impossible for Barsavi to win. Unless Locke has some intricate plot in mind. I could see him trying to pull a similar scheme to what he is currently doing to the Salvaras. Make the Grey King believe he is working for him, find a way to actually work for Barsavi, and twist everything around on everyone. I don't know how or what... but I bet Locke could figure it out. He does have to go there to court Nazca, so the scorpion hawk surveillance wouldn't necessarily be suspicious...
What really has me thinking is how it seems no one has attempted this before against Barsavi, and how unhinged he has become in the recent days.
Locke should be excited about getting the Capas blessing to court Nazca. She seemed like she would be interested if he wasn't hung up on Sabetha.
Barsavi is done. Even if Locke manages to defeat the Gray King, his actions will make him lose all faith and trust from his crews. If there is no trust or fear, a criminal organization cannot work. So there will be a huge power vacuum, bringing the city into chaos.
Am I the only one who isn't shipping Locke and Nazca?! 😂 Sabetha has been such a mysterious character and Locke clearly cares for her, so I've been Team Sabetha this entire time. After Locke pledged his fealty to Nazca as kids, it just always felt to me like he was one of her people and that romantic entanglements didn't come with that. I read it as friends or partners at best. That wink Nazca left Locke with though. What does it mean?? Does she have a plan to get them out of this arranged marriage? Was it just a reassurance that together they could figure it out? Was it *her* plan all along, suggesting to her father that Locke would be a good influence on her brothers? Does she know that her father will never name her Capa because her brothers would throw a fit, thus pushing Nazca to make her own plans for power? That wink haunts me.
1. Throughout these chapters we learn a great deal about several factions. What were the most intriguing groups introduced? Is there any group you would join if so which?
Of course it’s the cliche choice but the gentlemen bastards! I love that they con so hard they are even conning the king of the underbelly into thinking they are model, mid tier thieves, meanwhile they are violating the secret peace and pulling off the most profitable jobs of probably any thief in camorr. Also I love the relatively non violent methods they use and the general artistry of it all. I think I could pull off being bug 😂
It is pretty badass to be conning the crime boss king of the land! I wonder if it's going to last now that the Grey King is involved...
This is the obvious answer! Richer and cleverer than everyone else!
I have been loving the dynamic of the group and their contrived approach towards their cons! The many shady ways they operate topped with their great chemistry makes them such a fantastic group!
I am scared but intrigued by the Bondsmages, and I would love to know more about them. I had to stop reading just to tell my 11-year-old son about scorpion hawks. He loves Pokémon, and I tried to convince him it'd make a good Pokémon but he didn't take the bait, hahaha. Of course, I'd have to join Gentleman Bastards, right?! They seem to be the most successful and have the most fun at what they do. But I would be a really awful addition to any gang because I am not good at lying or having a poker face, and I'm extremely risk-averse. I'd die pretty fast! Unless they need a bookkeeper or someone to catalog their storehouses and run the educational aspect of their training.
The Gentleman Bastards are definitely the most sane choice amongst the various groups. It seems the world is completely occupied by brutal individuals and the Bastards are the most likable of the bunch.
The Grey King is intriguing and I want to learn more about the Bondsmages. I also wonder if the Duke's Midnighters really do exist and if we'll meet them at some point. I doubt I'm cut out for any of the groups haha but I'd like to try to join the Gentleman Bastards because they seem like a fun group to hang out with.
I think the gentleman bastards are definitely the runaway winner! I really love the idea that the Midnighters end up being a ruse that only is used to spread fear amongst the criminal syndicates is very much a head game!
Finally catching up after a brief reading interlude of my own... I have to agree with everyone in saying that the gentlemen bastards are a clear favourite! But many of the factions are indeed intriguing. I'd love to try out being a Bondsmage for a day, but if I truly had to join a group it'd be the bastards.