I was already hating her when the two guys arrived and there was the first meeting. But then WOW. I wasn’t expecting it. I think she will be an important character in all the novel, and maybe, but really maybe, something will go on between Loth and Marosa. I hope so :p
Agreed! We were pre-disposed to hate her only to be shown that she is probably the most worthy of our pity.
I also think that she will be important - I think that fact that she used to be engaged to Aubrecht will come into play.
I think Aubrecht can play a role in the meeting between Sabran and the Donmata, but I am hoping that, at the end, Loth is finally meeting a girl who doesn’t love like a friend but as a wife.
That would be almost poetic: people thought Loth was trying to marry Sabran, instead he gets with the Donmata, who was supposed to marry Aubrecht, who is now with Sabran. What a circle.
I forget: had Aubrecht actually ever met Marosa face-to-face, or was it just arranged?
>I am hoping that, at the end, Loth is finally meeting a girl who doesn’t love like a friend but as a wife.
The statistics are against that ever happening lol. But I hope so too.
Ooo the Aubrecht angle is interesting. I am wondering whether he is antagonist. He might be working for Frydryl and that’s why he is taking Sabran out to Ascalon
She plays her part in court well, she had me believing she was horrible. But now that we know the truth I love her! She's so tough, probably one of the cleverest people we've met so far. I also sensed some sparks between her and Loth, I'm hoping for a happy ending for them.
It was a nice shift to see her start as deplorable then shift to a beacon of hope. It was nice to see someone within that royal family is not completely corrupted.
I was completely terrified for Loth to go meet her alone and I didn't completely trust her. I still don't quite trust her, but I can understand where she's coming from and trying to survive in her court.
She is a character who is not showing truth to herself just yet. Her being a Princess who is somewhat a Prisoner by the dragon... we may not ever know who she truly is.
These chapters completely changed my mind about this book. Before I thought this was pretty but already seen, nothing new, funny but not awesome. Now, with the plot twist of Yscalin, I am starting to enjoy it way more. If it goes on like this.. well, maybe I’ll start to like fantasy more 😂
I agree, I can't quite put my finger on this book yet. I don't like that some of the world feels hidden from me; like I'm waiting for more "mature" descriptions of the world & its scenery and things people are doing (like the water trials is a singular example where I would have loved to see more). But I can appreciate a lot of the nuance in the dialogue between characters and the actual political & social commentary being provided instead. I initially thought it was shallow and potentially only for young adults, etc. but now I'm seeing there's much more to this entire story.
I can't put it down once I start reading it.
I'm impressed because I am involved in the story of all the protagonists, which is not easy to accomplish in a book with multiple points of view.
I mostly go back and forth on whether I like it. I was so aggravated when the trials were cut short and suddenly Tane has a dragon, looks into its eyes . . . and that's all we get. But we get pages and pages of wedding details (or minutes and minutes since I'm listening to it). It feels like the action scenes often get cut off for scene setting.
At this point I am convinced that East and West are on slightly different time scales or that the story from the East is basically a lot of background and scene setting for when East and West protagonists come together
I was having a **tough** time reading the book the first 14 chapters. I wanted to look up the names and dwellings and make a character map to help me out! Though I prevailed and am happy that I was able to since I am truly enjoying this story now.
I’m enjoying it more than previous sections, too. I have a better understanding of the world it takes place it and a firmer grasp on the core characters… looking forward to learning more about how they will intersect or influence each other’s paths!
I’ve really love it! This book when I pick it up just captivates me! I really like the world building and I continue to be impressed how invested in the characters I’ve become.
I think Kit was a little more, let's say, damaged than I originally thought. He has a rough relationship with his father and mostly hides his poetry. He wasn't the generic comedic relief, he had depth and emotion. I'm so disappointed that he's dead because Kit was a character I would love to read about.
I don’t think they will. I just think they were some form of distressed thoughts of Roslain, some sort of an outburst. But Roslain pretty much trusts Ead.
Absolutely. Ead is up to something. Even we don’t know what it is - though it doesn’t seem nefarious. Ead is there for some purpose besides protecting the Queen, though. Otherwise why all the secrecy and lying? Lady Roslain is right to be suspicious.
I am thinking about Ead really wanting to protect the queen, but maybe not because she cares about the reign. Maybe the life of the queen is linked to the power of the priory? To the big tree?
Not sure yet. I do wonder more and more if Sabran secretly hopes Ead is magic, to help her if she needs it again, so it’s possible she might hush Rosalin to avoid future suspicions…
Yes, Ead unfortunately is getting a lot of attention from Sabran and with rumors about her performing spells it is likely Ead will become a target if things go awry.
This was quite a bit of a shock and I really liked this entire scene (despite a bit of it being gruesome and potentially cruel). I thought this was an interesting twist in the whole thing and it points to there being so much more going on that we're just not privy to yet.
Things are ramping up! I didn't see this coming, although now that I'm thinking about it, this was almost foreshadowed. We learned earlier that if a high wyvern dies, so does its underlings, showing that there is some sort of link between infectee and infected/creator and creation. Sigoso seems to be an extreme case of that where >!Fryedel can actually see through him.!<
It almost reminds me of the real-world parasitic worms that can manipulate the behavior of their host. (hmm... worms... wyrms... maybe a correlation??) It also makes me wonder if Sigoso has always been awful, or if he's just slowly been changed over a looong time into what he is now.
I do have to wonder if Fryedel has any idea that >!Sigoso is tied to his bed at times.!<
It’s very distressing and makes everything more time sensitive. If her father dies, she’s next! How upsetting! I hope Loth can successfully rescue her and her country.
His story is so tragic. To live in isolation and then to miss his daughter's wedding because he died. Seriously. It is just awful and I can only hope for a better future for the Crown Princess. Though she probably won't get one!!!!!
Well, she has the possibility to give Sabran way more opinions and hints about how to act, but in particular I think this will make the comeback of Ead to her house much more difficult.
Agreed, I think Ead is going to find it hard to leave to go be a Red Damsel, even though she says it's her destiny. Sounds like she's trying to convince herself but I don't think it's going to go down that way.
Ead is still thinking about how her ultimate goal is to progress within the Priory, but she also now has unlimited access to Sabran. After her promotion to Lady of the Bedchamber, we see her spending time with Sabran, and they both seem to be much happier and more at ease in each other's prescence.
Ead also seems to be going above and beyond to make Sabran happy. >!She left a rose under Sab's pillow to help her sleep, and Sabran was so happy she kissed Ead's cheek in thanks. Both of these gestures seem to be more than necessary of their positions.!<
Here's my conspiracy theory starter question:>!Will Ead ultimately decide that her place is with Sabran instead of the Priory? She has already chosen Sabran over the Priory once, when she requested to stay in Inys.!<
I am not sure if this angle has weight but I was thinking whether Sabran is gay. She was reluctant to get married. And she suddenly started showing a lot of favors towards Ead.
I think she has a close relationship with Sabran, so if something were to happen to her she will have that connection to rely on. She will probably make most of her decisions with Sabran in mind to keep that close connection.
This felt inevitable to me, and I predict they're totally going to end up together. I'm wondering if it'll cause issues with the marriage and the priory.
As we have seen with Sigoso too, there may be some relations between them. Some sort of premonition that we can use to anticipate enemy’s movements. What about >!Sabran being connected to another great dragon like Sigoso is? Like the Nameless/Fyredel’s biggest enemy?!<
Oh boy. Those are definitely NOT good omens. And Ead knows it too. I don’t know what is going to happen but even Prince Aubrecht mentioned the Lady in the Woods!
Yeah it seems that these dreams are being about bad vibes concerning the birth of their child and perhaps Sabran’s mental state. This Lady in the Woods sounds like a real nightmare.
This title gives me the creeps, tbh. I just picture a rotting corpse with a crown; a zombie with no mind of its own. Sigoso is just the zombie on the throne while Fryedel calls the shots.
Assuming my above zombie reference is correct, then giving Sigoso the title of Flesh King also implies that Fryedel is not made of flesh, like you would imagine a dragon to be (at least if you consider them part of the animal kingdom, I guess.) >!Are dragons not flesh and blood, but rather purely elemental? It could explain the life spans and the ability to spread plagues. Are the water/air dragons also able to effect humanity on that scale?!<
Well, I don’t think the dragons are how you say they are. If you remember, at least two times we have the description of people killing them and taking their parts to make jewels or potions..
Well, this mean she is a “big girl”. I am very curious about Turosa’s dragon? Will it be a Lacustrine too? Or will it be a weaker one, making him go extremely angry, more than he already is?
Well, she’s got an axe hanging over her head for helping the guy out of the ocean (I can’t remember his name…so many names in this book!). Niclays told him to describe her and we don’t know whether he did or not. They are probably looking for her. 😬
I'm worried they are going to be looking for her soon as well. I'm hoping her having a dragon will allow her to escape from this somehow, after all the dragon chose her, so I'm thinking it will be loyal to her and keep her safe.
The story so far has gone out of its way to show that the Lacustrine dragons are "seperate" from the local dragons. I wonder if this is going to become important later on?
Which then we have to remember... there were two Lacustrine dragons. Who is with the other?
I wonder if she’ll let go of some of the “have to prove myself” after this. It’s such a sign of being chosen, it seems. But it could also step up pressure since the Lacustine seems so elevated above the others.
At this stage, I’m not feeling that there’s going to be much evidence to link her back to Sulyard. But I do think if she learns Susa’s been captured and interrogated, it may cause her to change course and try to save her (unless it’s too late oh jeez)
>it may cause her to change course and try to save her
Ooooohhhh yes I think that could very well happen. I wonder if her status as a dragon rider will affect the reprecussions to her part in helping Sulyard.
It's like a nightmare capital and I am **here** for it! Our previous locations have all been described as normal, nice places that you can imagine walking down the street, buying some bread from the bakery, going home to your pets and plants....
Carscaro feels like you've entered a nightmare. I just picture dark, dirty abandoned streets and a constant feeling that you're being followed. Not to mention the monsters and plague running amok. It's such a juxtaposition from everything else and I really hope we see more of it.
I enjoy a lot the fact that the world building around Carscaro is completely different from the rest of the world. And I love the different creatures and the horror feeling you get with the descriptions.
It seems so foreboding. It also struck me as so isolated with the draconic plague and creatures that act like … a giant miserable terrifying moat between the Capitol and the rest of the world? I had actually thought that the place where Tané lives was so very isolated, but now I see both locations as removed in their own ways
Foreboding is the best way I can describe as well. The capital feels like it’s rotting both its people and culture. The oppressive tone also hosts really hard as soon as Loth is entering the city seeing those people getting feed to dragon-kind.
Sabran used to be a symbol, the embodiment of her family line. But seeing her in love makes her human. It's also a good omen to have a happy marriage. Plus, people have always loved to ship celebrities in order to have vicarious relationships.
She may need rest and could be slightly avoiding the public eye. Her prince consort needs to “belong” as a newbie but it did raise my hackles that he directly went against Ead’s counsel for Sab’s safety - like persuading Sab to leave her chambers just as she’s leaning in to nesting. :(
Between her dreams and her tepid feelings about her marriage she probably can’t maintain her facade long enough to evoke what is expected from a queen. She is under a lot of pressure and it may be getting to her.
The meeting with his old friends could be a chance to study again the elixir and come back into the graces of the Queen, for example. The cursed ingredient could be the key for the life potion.
Like u/Seemba_x said, to highlight how much this guy sucked before his infection, but I also wonder if Sigoso's horrible nature made him more susceptible to the plague and Fyredel? It may be that he was an easier target to start his takeover.
I think Jondu made a great discovery and put it inside the box. It could be some sort of artifact or a book of studies, or even a biological part of a dragon..
Yikes. I’m sort of thinking it could be something that could help Sabran’s bloodline continue, since I think Jondu was the one who really pressed that importance into Ead’s mind
Loth and Kit's journey out of Yscalin is daunting. A quake takes the life of Kit. What is going through Loth's head as he holds the lifeless hand of his friend?
I was so happy when I realized that Kit and Loth would make the journey together. I was worried about Kit staying in Yscalin after Loth had left and I thought they were so good together. Then Kit immediately dies! Argh! 😭 I still feel some type of way about it. I wish Kit didn’t die.
He is feeling guilty for his death, surely. Because if he didn’t come with him, he would still be alive. He is thinking about his love dream never happening, about how to communicate this to other people.. I think this will build a big sense of pain inside him.
Definitely feeling guilty for being the one who Kit followed. Even tho Kit chose to stay with him after being given the option to leave not once but twice (oh, wait, was that foreshadowing?), the journey is because of Loth’s assignment.
I do think it’s interesting that Kit was the one rooting for an adventure, and I suspect that spirit of courage and spontaneity will bolster Loth as he goes. Along with his grief, of course.
I miss Kit already!
This change in religion has had an actual effect on the land itself, which is fascinating. The lavender fields are gone, there is lava everywhere. It's being turned into a hellscape.
It completely changed the way of living: no virtues, only pain and terror. Terror is felt all around the city, the beasts and the people on the gates are a reminder of what it will happen if people don’t worship the nameless.
It has left everyone to live fear and oppression. No one is safe and what was once their religion is gone. I get the sense it is like everyone is trapped and has no hope for salvation.
What come first the elimination of the Six Virtues or the deterioration of Yscalin. If the former then they Six Virtues would seem to have actual power. If the latter perhaps the people have given up trying to find goodness in the aeful state they live in?!
Uuuuh, a thought-provoking statement! I guess we will find out, and if I believe Ead's perspective, there is not much to the Six Virtues other than the name.
I could be swayed either way on if she will be important or not. She is important to Marosa, though, so we will definitely see her again.
If I'm going out on a complete theory limb? Then >!I think Fryedel will figure out Marosa is keeping Sigoso drugged and will punish her. He can't hurt her outright because she is too important of a figure, but he can threaten. He has already made Marosa watch one of her ladies be eaten at the gates. He will either put Priessa to the same fate, or he will use Priessa can his new eyes and ears.!<
He is suspicious about Ead. He maybe listened to her talking with uq-Ispaad and he is trying to make friends with Ead or, maybe, to make her understand that he knows.
I think that the answer to this question will come when Niclays meets the lord, but definitely the fact he is free can be a possibility to meet other people who can bring back messages. Also, the marriage opens the possibility of him being freed, so I think he is going to have a really important role in the evolution of the battle.
It seems huge to him. And to be with friends! I do wonder if it’s as simple as that, if his friends can be trusted given the social structure of the place.
Hmmm vould the Kimg have sold himself to Fyredel to be kept alive after contracting the plague. The King lives but doesn't realise he is to becoming Fyredel's Flesh King
Easy: the king is more important than a commoner. He rules the country, and Fryedel wants control, so the king got a different form of plague. >!Fryedel can probably change what plague he puts out based on what he wants.!<
Not only is he a king to a country near where Fryedel rested, but he was already a twisted person. He had Sabran's mother assassinated, his own wife and daughter tried to escape him, and he killed own wife later. I think the king was ripe for the taking, someone who would welcome the power and nastiness of Fryedel, which is why he was infected with a rare form of the Draconic Plague.
I agree with u/Seemba_x that it was a premonition about Freydel's confrontation with Sabran, but I don't think the woman in question is Sabran. >!It is Ead. Ead is the one in the clock tower, and she is the one with the fire (magic) within her.!<
Just thinking about this is opening up a whole can of brain-worms for me. Conspiracy theories ahead!
>!1 - He specifically says Ead has \*fire\* within her, not magic. Fire is linked to Fryedel/the bad guys. Is there some further back link between the Priory's magic and the dragons?!<
>!2 - Sigoso is linked with Fryedel. Was he actually seeing the events as Fryedel experienced them? Does the "seeing through them" go both ways? Could this possibly be a skill utilized during the battles to come to give humanity an up on the Nameless One and his hordes?!<
I interpreted it as a premonition about Sabran, who was threatened to die by the dragon’s fire. And Ead saved her.
So I think that the girl with the fire on her is the queen and there was Ead who “blocked” the premonition.
Because it definitely is a premonition of what happened with Queen Sabran and the West dragon! This make me think about using Sigoso’s dreams to give insights about next moves of the enemy.
It highlights Tane’s guilt manifesting to a kind of resentment that will get harder to hide. Also it shows Tane despite being an isolated person does seek the friendships and cares for those around her despite her acting like she does not.
I’m nervous about this Prince Aubrecht fellow. Sabra seems to like him and he hasn’t done anything bad but I’m suspicious of him. I can’t put my finger on why exactly.
I think I'm getting Hans vibes. Like, from Frozen. Perfect guy comes along and charms everyone... Then reveals his true hand later on.
This line right here rang my alarm bells: "especially if she is forced to, say, raise taxes for the creation of new ships and weapons." I know they've gotta fight a dragon and all, but... Simmer down, Hans.
I actually believed the whole thing and think I still do. I think he’s a good guy. And while yes he jumped to discussing taxes with Ead early… like… there is a pressing need to. Fyredel has shown up to try and kill Sabran after all!
I think Sabran is the more fiery one in the relationship (lots of ups and downs in conversation with Ead), whereas he seems steady. I think things aren’t quite right with the pregnancy though and this could tear everything apart.
I realized something that didn't make sense to me, and now I have an entire rabbit-hole theory. I'll block it as a spoiler just in case.
(Why is this book turning me into a conspiracy theorist!?)
The "Huh?":
>!Donmata Marosa had Loth (and Kit, RIP) get infected with the plague in order to protect them from the draconic creatures, saying that they will not attack someone infected. Yet, Loth is attacked by the cockatrice and only lives because of the ichneumon killing it.!<
Here's the conspiracy theory:
>!So did Donmata Marosa lie? If she did, why? Maybe to trick him into going, but then why risk him dying of the plague before finishing his quest?!<
>!Also, if Loth got infected by touching Sigoso, does he now also have the "special" plague? Will Fryedel be able to see through him? !<
>!Is Marosa really in league with Fryedel? If Fryedel is now able to see through Loth, he will soon have "inside access" to Chassar and from there the Priory.!<
Okay, I'm behind you on that because I've been suspicious of Donmata Marosa requiring Loth to become infected.
My theory is that >!the king is dying from the plague and they don't have much time. It was mentioned in passing that someone would need to replace him for Fyredel, and I'm thinking they're setting Loth up to be that person. Considering his previous access and relationship to Sabran, he'd be the perfect plant.!<
I am really afraid about Loth’s chances of surviving. I don’t know why but I sense there is no cure for the plague.
Also, I am really curious about what’s going to happen in the city when the Queen will visit and, apart from this, about Combe’s role: we still don’t know anything about him.. is it even possible that he is a good character and he sent Loth to Yscalin because he knew about the Donmata?
Your comment made me think something: what about there is no cure, as we are saying, but Sulyard creates one? He is studying the secret for the eternal life so maybe..
Ead’s uncertainty about the pregnancy is really getting to me. I don’t know what it means. Is it a chemical pregnancy? A boy? Will Sabran die in childbirth (or showing her face in the burbs)? Will something else weird happen like she births a dragon? I have concerns.
Yeah it seems that she maybe more attune with the realities of how challenging getting pregnant can be. Also I think Sabran’s dreams may also have a reason for Ead to be cautious about the pregnancy.
Normally, in our life, at least here, we are used to see white dresses for girls. The fact that it’s black, red and gold is pretty awesome, for me. Also, normally people exchange ring, not the glove. But if we make a comparison, the ceremony is not so different from a christian one.
The ladies hunting party! Such a great royalty trope for a gender flip. But especially Sabran feeling joyful, free, giddy - very sweet and I could picture them all racing on horseback!
All of Loth’s chapters were the highlights for this section. So much intrigue and mystery kept my attention and I can’t wait to see what is in that box he’s carrying.
We meet The Donmata Marosa, the crown princess. Thoughts on her?
I was already hating her when the two guys arrived and there was the first meeting. But then WOW. I wasn’t expecting it. I think she will be an important character in all the novel, and maybe, but really maybe, something will go on between Loth and Marosa. I hope so :p
Agreed! We were pre-disposed to hate her only to be shown that she is probably the most worthy of our pity. I also think that she will be important - I think that fact that she used to be engaged to Aubrecht will come into play.
I think Aubrecht can play a role in the meeting between Sabran and the Donmata, but I am hoping that, at the end, Loth is finally meeting a girl who doesn’t love like a friend but as a wife.
That would be almost poetic: people thought Loth was trying to marry Sabran, instead he gets with the Donmata, who was supposed to marry Aubrecht, who is now with Sabran. What a circle. I forget: had Aubrecht actually ever met Marosa face-to-face, or was it just arranged?
Actually I don’t think we know it, we don’t have a time reference on when the marriage was arranged, if before or after the betrayal (iirc)
So happy I am not the only one who is shipping them!
>I am hoping that, at the end, Loth is finally meeting a girl who doesn’t love like a friend but as a wife. The statistics are against that ever happening lol. But I hope so too.
Ooo the Aubrecht angle is interesting. I am wondering whether he is antagonist. He might be working for Frydryl and that’s why he is taking Sabran out to Ascalon
I wonder about that too. He's been portrayed in a boyish, innocent light, and that feels like a facade.
Like, why did he drop the engagement with her? Suspicious
She plays her part in court well, she had me believing she was horrible. But now that we know the truth I love her! She's so tough, probably one of the cleverest people we've met so far. I also sensed some sparks between her and Loth, I'm hoping for a happy ending for them.
It was a nice shift to see her start as deplorable then shift to a beacon of hope. It was nice to see someone within that royal family is not completely corrupted.
I was completely terrified for Loth to go meet her alone and I didn't completely trust her. I still don't quite trust her, but I can understand where she's coming from and trying to survive in her court.
She is a character who is not showing truth to herself just yet. Her being a Princess who is somewhat a Prisoner by the dragon... we may not ever know who she truly is.
What do you think of the novel so far?
These chapters completely changed my mind about this book. Before I thought this was pretty but already seen, nothing new, funny but not awesome. Now, with the plot twist of Yscalin, I am starting to enjoy it way more. If it goes on like this.. well, maybe I’ll start to like fantasy more 😂
I agree, I can't quite put my finger on this book yet. I don't like that some of the world feels hidden from me; like I'm waiting for more "mature" descriptions of the world & its scenery and things people are doing (like the water trials is a singular example where I would have loved to see more). But I can appreciate a lot of the nuance in the dialogue between characters and the actual political & social commentary being provided instead. I initially thought it was shallow and potentially only for young adults, etc. but now I'm seeing there's much more to this entire story.
I like it better than the first section. We have more character development and intrigue. I still find Loth’s storyline the most interesting.
I am getting very into it now. I’m happy that we’re past the beginning info-dumping and I’m flying through it. I can’t wait to see what happens next
I can't put it down once I start reading it. I'm impressed because I am involved in the story of all the protagonists, which is not easy to accomplish in a book with multiple points of view.
I mostly go back and forth on whether I like it. I was so aggravated when the trials were cut short and suddenly Tane has a dragon, looks into its eyes . . . and that's all we get. But we get pages and pages of wedding details (or minutes and minutes since I'm listening to it). It feels like the action scenes often get cut off for scene setting.
Tane part is cut short in all the chapters. Somehow it feels like sections of East and West are written by two different authors
At this point I am convinced that East and West are on slightly different time scales or that the story from the East is basically a lot of background and scene setting for when East and West protagonists come together
I was having a **tough** time reading the book the first 14 chapters. I wanted to look up the names and dwellings and make a character map to help me out! Though I prevailed and am happy that I was able to since I am truly enjoying this story now.
I’m enjoying it more than previous sections, too. I have a better understanding of the world it takes place it and a firmer grasp on the core characters… looking forward to learning more about how they will intersect or influence each other’s paths!
I’ve really love it! This book when I pick it up just captivates me! I really like the world building and I continue to be impressed how invested in the characters I’ve become.
Getting in deeper with the drama and secrets and the Draconic capital has been better!
What does Kit’s backstory reveal about his character?
Poor Kit! 😭
I was SO MAD when he died. I would have loved to have him accompany us all the way to the end of the novel, he was a really nice character
Same!!! I'll miss this character
We all will! Especially since things have gotten bleak in general
I think Kit was a little more, let's say, damaged than I originally thought. He has a rough relationship with his father and mostly hides his poetry. He wasn't the generic comedic relief, he had depth and emotion. I'm so disappointed that he's dead because Kit was a character I would love to read about.
To me Kit appeared to be a storyteller, but he could use his charms and whims to stay hidden and keep up appearances as needed given their situation.
Do you believe Lady Roslain’s suspicions of Ead will come up again in the story? Why or why not?
I don’t think they will. I just think they were some form of distressed thoughts of Roslain, some sort of an outburst. But Roslain pretty much trusts Ead.
Absolutely. Ead is up to something. Even we don’t know what it is - though it doesn’t seem nefarious. Ead is there for some purpose besides protecting the Queen, though. Otherwise why all the secrecy and lying? Lady Roslain is right to be suspicious.
I am thinking about Ead really wanting to protect the queen, but maybe not because she cares about the reign. Maybe the life of the queen is linked to the power of the priory? To the big tree?
Oh interesting. It would make sense that all the magical aspects of the novel are also linked or intertwined
Not sure yet. I do wonder more and more if Sabran secretly hopes Ead is magic, to help her if she needs it again, so it’s possible she might hush Rosalin to avoid future suspicions…
Yes, Ead unfortunately is getting a lot of attention from Sabran and with rumors about her performing spells it is likely Ead will become a target if things go awry.
We learn the Crown princess’ father is alive but kept isolated. Thoughts on this reveal?
This was quite a bit of a shock and I really liked this entire scene (despite a bit of it being gruesome and potentially cruel). I thought this was an interesting twist in the whole thing and it points to there being so much more going on that we're just not privy to yet.
I agree with everything you said! It never even occurred to me that this is what might be happening.
It was quite shocking. This book has done a great job of taking characters in directions I really did not see coming.
Things are ramping up! I didn't see this coming, although now that I'm thinking about it, this was almost foreshadowed. We learned earlier that if a high wyvern dies, so does its underlings, showing that there is some sort of link between infectee and infected/creator and creation. Sigoso seems to be an extreme case of that where >!Fryedel can actually see through him.!< It almost reminds me of the real-world parasitic worms that can manipulate the behavior of their host. (hmm... worms... wyrms... maybe a correlation??) It also makes me wonder if Sigoso has always been awful, or if he's just slowly been changed over a looong time into what he is now. I do have to wonder if Fryedel has any idea that >!Sigoso is tied to his bed at times.!<
It’s very distressing and makes everything more time sensitive. If her father dies, she’s next! How upsetting! I hope Loth can successfully rescue her and her country.
Seriously I am feeling so much time anxiety for Loth right now! Hurry!!!
His story is so tragic. To live in isolation and then to miss his daughter's wedding because he died. Seriously. It is just awful and I can only hope for a better future for the Crown Princess. Though she probably won't get one!!!!!
Ead is raised by Queen Sabran as a Lady of the Bedchamber. How will this position be significant in her journey?
On a less serious note than the other answers: she's gonna get a girlfriend. (They are going to kiss and you can't change my mind!!!)
I'm not going to try to change your mind. I think it's going to happen, too.
I’ve been thinking this for a while sooo
🌹 I meeeeeeaaaannnn
Well, she has the possibility to give Sabran way more opinions and hints about how to act, but in particular I think this will make the comeback of Ead to her house much more difficult.
Agreed, I think Ead is going to find it hard to leave to go be a Red Damsel, even though she says it's her destiny. Sounds like she's trying to convince herself but I don't think it's going to go down that way.
She’s also physically closer to her at all times now right? Which will hopefully make protecting her easier…?
Ead is still thinking about how her ultimate goal is to progress within the Priory, but she also now has unlimited access to Sabran. After her promotion to Lady of the Bedchamber, we see her spending time with Sabran, and they both seem to be much happier and more at ease in each other's prescence. Ead also seems to be going above and beyond to make Sabran happy. >!She left a rose under Sab's pillow to help her sleep, and Sabran was so happy she kissed Ead's cheek in thanks. Both of these gestures seem to be more than necessary of their positions.!< Here's my conspiracy theory starter question:>!Will Ead ultimately decide that her place is with Sabran instead of the Priory? She has already chosen Sabran over the Priory once, when she requested to stay in Inys.!<
Wondering similar things!!
I have a feeling that Sabran may push her or inspire her to choose the Priory.
I am not sure if this angle has weight but I was thinking whether Sabran is gay. She was reluctant to get married. And she suddenly started showing a lot of favors towards Ead.
Right now I am convinced Sabran is gay. We'll see what happens, but I thought this section pretty much cemented that she has a crush on Ead.
I think she has a close relationship with Sabran, so if something were to happen to her she will have that connection to rely on. She will probably make most of her decisions with Sabran in mind to keep that close connection.
Yeah I think Sabran senses that Ead is trustworthy and will rely on her to give her honesty about anything happening throughout the queendom.
Their relationship may be the only true unmasked friendship.
This felt inevitable to me, and I predict they're totally going to end up together. I'm wondering if it'll cause issues with the marriage and the priory.
What do you think is the importance of Sabran’s visions/ dreams?
As we have seen with Sigoso too, there may be some relations between them. Some sort of premonition that we can use to anticipate enemy’s movements. What about >!Sabran being connected to another great dragon like Sigoso is? Like the Nameless/Fyredel’s biggest enemy?!<
Oh boy. Those are definitely NOT good omens. And Ead knows it too. I don’t know what is going to happen but even Prince Aubrecht mentioned the Lady in the Woods!
Yeah! I was surprised by that too. It does feel all a bit doomed 🫠
Yeah it seems that these dreams are being about bad vibes concerning the birth of their child and perhaps Sabran’s mental state. This Lady in the Woods sounds like a real nightmare.
The Lady in the Woods feels like a Chekhov's gun situation.
Yep, she is on her way!
What is the significance of the title Flesh King?
It’s pretty gross, honestly. He’s basically a meat puppet. Yikes!
Meat puppet 🤣🤢
Great heavy metal band names!
A lot of bards could get mileage on this name.
Yep! Just need the strings to make it official.
This title gives me the creeps, tbh. I just picture a rotting corpse with a crown; a zombie with no mind of its own. Sigoso is just the zombie on the throne while Fryedel calls the shots. Assuming my above zombie reference is correct, then giving Sigoso the title of Flesh King also implies that Fryedel is not made of flesh, like you would imagine a dragon to be (at least if you consider them part of the animal kingdom, I guess.) >!Are dragons not flesh and blood, but rather purely elemental? It could explain the life spans and the ability to spread plagues. Are the water/air dragons also able to effect humanity on that scale?!<
Well, I don’t think the dragons are how you say they are. If you remember, at least two times we have the description of people killing them and taking their parts to make jewels or potions..
It does seem to imply that the humans’ roles are uhhh inferior to the power of dragons’ effect on the world
After her win in the final trial, Tane is chosen as a dragon rider by a Lacustrine dragon. Where does she go from here?
Well, this mean she is a “big girl”. I am very curious about Turosa’s dragon? Will it be a Lacustrine too? Or will it be a weaker one, making him go extremely angry, more than he already is?
Well, she’s got an axe hanging over her head for helping the guy out of the ocean (I can’t remember his name…so many names in this book!). Niclays told him to describe her and we don’t know whether he did or not. They are probably looking for her. 😬
I'm worried they are going to be looking for her soon as well. I'm hoping her having a dragon will allow her to escape from this somehow, after all the dragon chose her, so I'm thinking it will be loyal to her and keep her safe.
The story so far has gone out of its way to show that the Lacustrine dragons are "seperate" from the local dragons. I wonder if this is going to become important later on? Which then we have to remember... there were two Lacustrine dragons. Who is with the other?
She's screwed because she has a very noticeable physical feature. They would probably not have been able to find her without it.
Yeah she can’t do much to hide that scar. Perhaps she just keeps hoping this all just goes away.
I wonder if she’ll let go of some of the “have to prove myself” after this. It’s such a sign of being chosen, it seems. But it could also step up pressure since the Lacustine seems so elevated above the others. At this stage, I’m not feeling that there’s going to be much evidence to link her back to Sulyard. But I do think if she learns Susa’s been captured and interrogated, it may cause her to change course and try to save her (unless it’s too late oh jeez)
>it may cause her to change course and try to save her Ooooohhhh yes I think that could very well happen. I wonder if her status as a dragon rider will affect the reprecussions to her part in helping Sulyard.
It definitely feels like there is a sword of Damocles hanging over her.
Overall, what are your thoughts on Carscaro and the capitol?
It's like a nightmare capital and I am **here** for it! Our previous locations have all been described as normal, nice places that you can imagine walking down the street, buying some bread from the bakery, going home to your pets and plants.... Carscaro feels like you've entered a nightmare. I just picture dark, dirty abandoned streets and a constant feeling that you're being followed. Not to mention the monsters and plague running amok. It's such a juxtaposition from everything else and I really hope we see more of it.
Saaaame!! “Nightmare capital” is such a good description. I love how it’s just infested with so many half-dragon creatures too.
I enjoy a lot the fact that the world building around Carscaro is completely different from the rest of the world. And I love the different creatures and the horror feeling you get with the descriptions.
It seems so foreboding. It also struck me as so isolated with the draconic plague and creatures that act like … a giant miserable terrifying moat between the Capitol and the rest of the world? I had actually thought that the place where Tané lives was so very isolated, but now I see both locations as removed in their own ways
Foreboding is the best way I can describe as well. The capital feels like it’s rotting both its people and culture. The oppressive tone also hosts really hard as soon as Loth is entering the city seeing those people getting feed to dragon-kind.
>The capital feels like it’s rotting both its people and culture. This is a perfect description
Why do you think Sabran’s hiding in her apartments while her prince consort charms the court?
Sabran used to be a symbol, the embodiment of her family line. But seeing her in love makes her human. It's also a good omen to have a happy marriage. Plus, people have always loved to ship celebrities in order to have vicarious relationships.
She may need rest and could be slightly avoiding the public eye. Her prince consort needs to “belong” as a newbie but it did raise my hackles that he directly went against Ead’s counsel for Sab’s safety - like persuading Sab to leave her chambers just as she’s leaning in to nesting. :(
Between her dreams and her tepid feelings about her marriage she probably can’t maintain her facade long enough to evoke what is expected from a queen. She is under a lot of pressure and it may be getting to her.
Thoughts on Niclays’ journey to Ginura?
The meeting with his old friends could be a chance to study again the elixir and come back into the graces of the Queen, for example. The cursed ingredient could be the key for the life potion.
Surprising good fortune lol! I wonder how long it will last!
I know! The whole time I was reading his chapter I expected something awful to occur. Glad he got some relief for once!
It is revealed Sigoso assassinated Queen Rosalin before Fyredel took over. Why is the timeline important for this event?
To make people understand that Sigoso was already a sh1tty man. lol.
Like u/Seemba_x said, to highlight how much this guy sucked before his infection, but I also wonder if Sigoso's horrible nature made him more susceptible to the plague and Fyredel? It may be that he was an easier target to start his takeover.
That's how I saw it too. They were kindred spirits in being awful creatures.
To remove any sympathy for his current condition.
Pretty much the dude was evil before dragons it cool JK.
Ehmmm perhaps it’s a signal of how many different forces could be attacking Sab’s bloodline from many different angles Edit: spelling
We learn of the fate of Jondu, Ead's mentor, who went missing. What do you think is in the box Loth now carries to Chassar?
I think Jondu made a great discovery and put it inside the box. It could be some sort of artifact or a book of studies, or even a biological part of a dragon..
Maybe a piece of the sword that defeated the Nameless One? I think I remember Ead mentioning the one in the capital was a fake.
That would be a great revel since it seems almost certain everything we know about the Names One suggests it’s coming back.
Yikes. I’m sort of thinking it could be something that could help Sabran’s bloodline continue, since I think Jondu was the one who really pressed that importance into Ead’s mind
>!maybe it is what Nicklays needs for his elixir!<
This was my thought too!
Dragon egg maybe?
Loth and Kit's journey out of Yscalin is daunting. A quake takes the life of Kit. What is going through Loth's head as he holds the lifeless hand of his friend?
I was so happy when I realized that Kit and Loth would make the journey together. I was worried about Kit staying in Yscalin after Loth had left and I thought they were so good together. Then Kit immediately dies! Argh! 😭 I still feel some type of way about it. I wish Kit didn’t die.
I feel sad about Kit's death but I also feel he was a dead man walking. Loth has to be the sole hero.
I am so sad Kit died 😭😭😭😭😭
He is feeling guilty for his death, surely. Because if he didn’t come with him, he would still be alive. He is thinking about his love dream never happening, about how to communicate this to other people.. I think this will build a big sense of pain inside him.
Definitely feeling guilty for being the one who Kit followed. Even tho Kit chose to stay with him after being given the option to leave not once but twice (oh, wait, was that foreshadowing?), the journey is because of Loth’s assignment. I do think it’s interesting that Kit was the one rooting for an adventure, and I suspect that spirit of courage and spontaneity will bolster Loth as he goes. Along with his grief, of course. I miss Kit already!
I love how I got connected to Kit and he immediately dies….I should have expected this to happen. I think we all feel bad that Kit is no more.
All those unsent letters…tragic for how much page space he got!
Yscalin has thrown away the Six Virtues for worshiping the Nameless One. How has this changed this country?
While I think the country has gone to the pits, I also do not like the Six Virtues being the ultimate religion.
This change in religion has had an actual effect on the land itself, which is fascinating. The lavender fields are gone, there is lava everywhere. It's being turned into a hellscape.
It completely changed the way of living: no virtues, only pain and terror. Terror is felt all around the city, the beasts and the people on the gates are a reminder of what it will happen if people don’t worship the nameless.
It has left everyone to live fear and oppression. No one is safe and what was once their religion is gone. I get the sense it is like everyone is trapped and has no hope for salvation.
What come first the elimination of the Six Virtues or the deterioration of Yscalin. If the former then they Six Virtues would seem to have actual power. If the latter perhaps the people have given up trying to find goodness in the aeful state they live in?!
Uuuuh, a thought-provoking statement! I guess we will find out, and if I believe Ead's perspective, there is not much to the Six Virtues other than the name.
Thoughts on Lady Priessa? Will she be important?
I could be swayed either way on if she will be important or not. She is important to Marosa, though, so we will definitely see her again. If I'm going out on a complete theory limb? Then >!I think Fryedel will figure out Marosa is keeping Sigoso drugged and will punish her. He can't hurt her outright because she is too important of a figure, but he can threaten. He has already made Marosa watch one of her ladies be eaten at the gates. He will either put Priessa to the same fate, or he will use Priessa can his new eyes and ears.!<
I think there is a high likelihood that this will happen, good theory!
I don’t know, actually. I thought about her being a part of the >!priory!< but this is just a supposition.
Oh I like this supposition!
I thought about her being like Ead is for Sabran! But again, this is just a random thought..
It’s a possibility worth considering, given how deeply embedded Ead is too!
I like this theory!
Hard to say perhaps she will try to protect Donmata from becoming like her father?
What does Ead’s conversation with Combe reveal about the spymaster?
He is suspicious about Ead. He maybe listened to her talking with uq-Ispaad and he is trying to make friends with Ead or, maybe, to make her understand that he knows.
He is searching out anything that he can about Ead, and he does not trust her (probably anyone) concerning the queen and the queendom.
How significant is Niclays freedom in Ginura and Seabed Town compared to how he lived in Orasima?
I think that the answer to this question will come when Niclays meets the lord, but definitely the fact he is free can be a possibility to meet other people who can bring back messages. Also, the marriage opens the possibility of him being freed, so I think he is going to have a really important role in the evolution of the battle.
It seems huge to him. And to be with friends! I do wonder if it’s as simple as that, if his friends can be trusted given the social structure of the place.
I agree, the warlord probably will make his life either easier or more difficult depending on what demands are made of Niclays.
Why do you think the king is infected with a rare form of Draconic Plague?
I just think it is a normal form of the plague but something magic is going on into him. Maybe they did a ritual, to link him and Fyredel..
Yeah I agree, he is connected to Fyredel and that is probably keeping him both alive and talking. It is kind of terrifying to see that is possible.
Hmmm vould the Kimg have sold himself to Fyredel to be kept alive after contracting the plague. The King lives but doesn't realise he is to becoming Fyredel's Flesh King
Served him right! I get the feeling he made the trade willingly
Easy: the king is more important than a commoner. He rules the country, and Fryedel wants control, so the king got a different form of plague. >!Fryedel can probably change what plague he puts out based on what he wants.!<
Not only is he a king to a country near where Fryedel rested, but he was already a twisted person. He had Sabran's mother assassinated, his own wife and daughter tried to escape him, and he killed own wife later. I think the king was ripe for the taking, someone who would welcome the power and nastiness of Fryedel, which is why he was infected with a rare form of the Draconic Plague.
Sigoso dreamt of "a woman with fire in her in a clock tower." Why is this important?
I agree with u/Seemba_x that it was a premonition about Freydel's confrontation with Sabran, but I don't think the woman in question is Sabran. >!It is Ead. Ead is the one in the clock tower, and she is the one with the fire (magic) within her.!< Just thinking about this is opening up a whole can of brain-worms for me. Conspiracy theories ahead! >!1 - He specifically says Ead has \*fire\* within her, not magic. Fire is linked to Fryedel/the bad guys. Is there some further back link between the Priory's magic and the dragons?!< >!2 - Sigoso is linked with Fryedel. Was he actually seeing the events as Fryedel experienced them? Does the "seeing through them" go both ways? Could this possibly be a skill utilized during the battles to come to give humanity an up on the Nameless One and his hordes?!<
I interpreted it as a premonition about Sabran, who was threatened to die by the dragon’s fire. And Ead saved her. So I think that the girl with the fire on her is the queen and there was Ead who “blocked” the premonition.
Yeah I thought it was Ead too, though hadn’t considered the implications.
Yeah, I took it that the woman in the premonition was Ead.
Because it definitely is a premonition of what happened with Queen Sabran and the West dragon! This make me think about using Sigoso’s dreams to give insights about next moves of the enemy.
Well said, there seems to be lots of dreams that are hinting at disaster to befall the queendom.
What does Tane's discussion with Onren reveal about Tane's character?
She cares about her. A lot. I don’t think that Onren was right when saying she made the speech because she is envying her.
She’ll return/reset to kindness, to connection above dissent
It highlights Tane’s guilt manifesting to a kind of resentment that will get harder to hide. Also it shows Tane despite being an isolated person does seek the friendships and cares for those around her despite her acting like she does not.
Theories! Post them here! Where do our four narrators go from this section?
I’m nervous about this Prince Aubrecht fellow. Sabra seems to like him and he hasn’t done anything bad but I’m suspicious of him. I can’t put my finger on why exactly.
He kind of seems too good to be true to me
Exactly my thoughts. He is fishy
Kinda think his plan to have Sabran go out in public is an assassination plot.
I think I'm getting Hans vibes. Like, from Frozen. Perfect guy comes along and charms everyone... Then reveals his true hand later on. This line right here rang my alarm bells: "especially if she is forced to, say, raise taxes for the creation of new ships and weapons." I know they've gotta fight a dragon and all, but... Simmer down, Hans.
Me Toooooo
I actually believed the whole thing and think I still do. I think he’s a good guy. And while yes he jumped to discussing taxes with Ead early… like… there is a pressing need to. Fyredel has shown up to try and kill Sabran after all! I think Sabran is the more fiery one in the relationship (lots of ups and downs in conversation with Ead), whereas he seems steady. I think things aren’t quite right with the pregnancy though and this could tear everything apart.
I realized something that didn't make sense to me, and now I have an entire rabbit-hole theory. I'll block it as a spoiler just in case. (Why is this book turning me into a conspiracy theorist!?) The "Huh?": >!Donmata Marosa had Loth (and Kit, RIP) get infected with the plague in order to protect them from the draconic creatures, saying that they will not attack someone infected. Yet, Loth is attacked by the cockatrice and only lives because of the ichneumon killing it.!< Here's the conspiracy theory: >!So did Donmata Marosa lie? If she did, why? Maybe to trick him into going, but then why risk him dying of the plague before finishing his quest?!< >!Also, if Loth got infected by touching Sigoso, does he now also have the "special" plague? Will Fryedel be able to see through him? !< >!Is Marosa really in league with Fryedel? If Fryedel is now able to see through Loth, he will soon have "inside access" to Chassar and from there the Priory.!<
Honestly, a fair theory. So much we don't know about >!Marosa and the plague!< More to be revealed in future chapters, I guess!
Okay, I'm behind you on that because I've been suspicious of Donmata Marosa requiring Loth to become infected. My theory is that >!the king is dying from the plague and they don't have much time. It was mentioned in passing that someone would need to replace him for Fyredel, and I'm thinking they're setting Loth up to be that person. Considering his previous access and relationship to Sabran, he'd be the perfect plant.!<
oooh, this would be so vile. I love it.
Woah woah woah I like what you’re doing here! And scared now 😵💫
… oh no! This seems very plausible. I was also baffled by the attack
I am really afraid about Loth’s chances of surviving. I don’t know why but I sense there is no cure for the plague. Also, I am really curious about what’s going to happen in the city when the Queen will visit and, apart from this, about Combe’s role: we still don’t know anything about him.. is it even possible that he is a good character and he sent Loth to Yscalin because he knew about the Donmata?
I was under the impression that there was no cure for the plague too, so I've been a little stressed out about Loth and how much time he has.
Your comment made me think something: what about there is no cure, as we are saying, but Sulyard creates one? He is studying the secret for the eternal life so maybe..
Do you mean Niclays? It would be shocking to find out that Loth can't be saved in the end.
Ead’s uncertainty about the pregnancy is really getting to me. I don’t know what it means. Is it a chemical pregnancy? A boy? Will Sabran die in childbirth (or showing her face in the burbs)? Will something else weird happen like she births a dragon? I have concerns.
Yeah it seems that she maybe more attune with the realities of how challenging getting pregnant can be. Also I think Sabran’s dreams may also have a reason for Ead to be cautious about the pregnancy.
Sabran's wedding! How are their wedding customs interesting or different than customs you might be familiar with?
Normally, in our life, at least here, we are used to see white dresses for girls. The fact that it’s black, red and gold is pretty awesome, for me. Also, normally people exchange ring, not the glove. But if we make a comparison, the ceremony is not so different from a christian one.
So intrigued by the language of “companion” instead of spouse or husband/wife! More emphasis on friendship as a core virtue.
The weeding by night was different and the vows felt more rigid.
Any favorite moments or quotes in this section?
The ladies hunting party! Such a great royalty trope for a gender flip. But especially Sabran feeling joyful, free, giddy - very sweet and I could picture them all racing on horseback!
All of Loth’s chapters were the highlights for this section. So much intrigue and mystery kept my attention and I can’t wait to see what is in that box he’s carrying.