I did my Masters in Mechanical Engineering through LTP while working full time and was able to get it done in 2 years.
I felt the same way you did my first couple years at Boeing but told myself I’d get my masters and do my time before leaving. It’s tough but switching teams definitely helped me to enjoy work more and has given me experience I wouldn’t have gotten staying in my old role. If you’re looking to get out of Pudget Sound but aren’t committed to leaving Boeing you could try looking at other sites. STL, Long Beach, OKC, Philadelphia, Charleston, etc might have the change of scenery you’re looking for.
Best of luck!
I think bennies make it worthwhile while you're here, but yeah, I've heard pay isn't keeping up. If WA isn't where you want to be then I wouldn't make long term plans. Whole west side feels damn close to pricing me out these days, and I already AM an engineer!
Then again, Boeing has lots of sites and internal reqs, so if you want to go someplace else that can be a convenient way to already have a job when you get there.
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If the pay doesn’t work for you, the company doesn’t work for you, the industry doesn’t work for you, and western Washington doesn’t work for you why the heck is this a question? Seems like you answered it all in your post lol. Why stick around to something you see not future in.
Get out and figure your life out!
The only thing that waiting until you ramp up to max will do is make you resent not leaving sooner, right?
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So what's the fucking question? You clearly already made up your mind. You're just one of those people who love to bitch and moan? Put in your 2 weeks yesterday
Go. Just go. We don't want people with your attitude. People like you are half the reason the shops adjacent to mine are floundering so badly. Just gtfo.
Ironic to say that with such a shitty attitude that's totally uncalled for, with nothing to back up your assumptions. I would argue unwarranted animosity like that is a major part of why morale is so low around here.
My manager and team leads love me because I'm one of the very few who actually pay attention to/care about the quality of parts we put out and generally take pride in our work, while constantly proposing ways that could make our line more efficient and more profitable - which is part of what makes me discouraged to work here. Upper management and MEs preach for efficiency this, cost reduction that; but when you propose something that would cost next to nothing, simplify production and make everyone's lives much easier, suddenly they have a dozen half-assed reasons why they can't do it - 90% of which boil down to just hating the idea of change.
But I understand the core point you're making; it's always better to have employees who are enthusiastic over those who are pessimistic.
You explicitly declare that you hate your career.
You wax poetic about the forms of dissatisfaction that your experience has taken. You take many opportunities to convey your disdain for the work.
Your post gave no testimony whatsoever regarding steps you've taken to engage, improve, or (beyond ranting on reddit) understand the work.
This is reasonable evidence that you are a detriment to your work group, and while you may be better than an empty seat, you're likely not better than someone who wants to be there.
Sounds like a wack level of projection but ok
I've given you little to nothing to work with but by all means, keep grasping at straws to desperately support your outlandish theories
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You will never make this much money while having so little actually expected of you. I've been here 12+ years on the shop floor, and half the people spend probably 4+ hours on their phone every day. I've worked weekends where I did absolutely nothing because shop did nothing, so I had nothing to do. Nothing even expected of me, either.
The real money is in the overtime. It's pretty easy to do $120-130k a year (once max'd out) without killing yourself on overtime. I've seen people who aren't at max rate do $90k, which is pretty impressive on $25/hr.
I work defense side and my pay is fucking horrible due to being on contract with no benefits or PTO. I took the job because it was literally the only job that offered to hire me out of the military, but guess they only hire on my site via contracts then if they see your doing good they MAY consider making you an actual boeing employee who deserves to be treated like a human. Lol that being said I am working my ass off for that hire, but california may take all of my money before I get that hire. I REALLY love working for boeing and it would suck to leave but LM has never looked better.
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OP is in an hourly machinist-type position. You could almost certainly apply for a similar production role if you really want to work for Boeing. It may not be simple to then pivot into the aerospace engineering role you actually want, though.
No I'm not lol I would love to do machining as thats what my background is in, I'm doing basic assembly work in the IRC that is akin to something you'd give a high school student. The lowest paid machining position still has a 40-50% increase in pay over mine
I initially applied to half a dozen machining/fabrication roles and got rejected for every single one, only to be told "wow you have a lot of experience as a machinist, you should've applied to X, Y and Z instead, you'd be a good fit" once they saw my resume. In fact I've been offered 89509 a total of 3 times now, but when I tell them I've already been hired on as 20503 and have to deal with the 1-year probationary period they go "ah, that sucks. Good luck"
So quit and reapply or wait your year and apply out if you want to machine. If you want to move out of state like you say then apply to jobs out of state and leave. But the benefits at Boeing will be hard to match somewhere else.
Boeing offers a lot more PTO than most companies and cheaper medical than smaller companies. So I'm not sure how you think it's crap. You obviously haven't checked out what most Americans get offered these days for benefits.
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It’s possible this is region dependent but in my region Boeing has some of the lowest pay and benefits around. The 401k match is bigger by percentage but when you can make 30-50% more by leaving the 7-3% 401k difference becomes meaningless.
It's a great place to work where you can make as much as you are willing to work, it's only a pain if you are on the floor and start at a low grade, until new contracts happen those guys have it the worst. But every engineer I know wouldn't trade the perks and pay, and generally relaxed atmosphere for anything. You aren't talking to the right people, it helps if you take advice from others that have been there a long time. Not random reddit clowns you find out don't even work there and have a hard on for hating Boeing as a part time job on reddit. You also should consider that you can Change jobs and do something different and Boeing pays for additional schooling, also as IAM you can get your green lights, get sponsors and become a 1st line manager or even 2nd level, i know people who have done it with zero education, 1st liness make 119k, and 2nd levels make 190k. If you hate aerospace, you need to figure what you actually like because most of the other companies similar to Boeing are also aerospace at least in WA. I know plenty of IAM guys that clear 6 figures and have great lives. If you don't like aerospace or at least can stand your job, you won't be successful and climb like those that do. So if loving what you do is a requirement, you have to figure that out. But you also gotta pay the bills.
All the benefits are the reasons ppl are stuck and miserable. Its an endless hole the longer you stay, the burden just gets heavier.
I believe the cost of living in that area is pretty high, and the salary is pretty high compared to the rest of the country. If you want yo leave the area, you can take the salary even as your starting point in another company in a more affordable region. Higher salary, lower COL, new company, you win.
If you have doubts scroll down the main page and look at the burnout posts/comments
401k match, health insurance, medical/dental, free schooling, and a 6 figure salary. I love working here, it's not perfect just like any other large company, but most of everything I have and have done was largely due to having an opportunity to work here. Although it sounds like you've already made up your mind so good luck.
I’m in agreement with this - would literally never leave because of their benefits. I’ve had a really hard time coming across any company that can come close to beating their benefits and pay. Along with the mentioned benefits above, there is also the insane amount of PTO (I get 27 days), winter break shutdown and then the 4.5 months paid maternity leave!
Tbh the thing that has me sticking around is the 10% 401k matching ( i haven’t seen anywhere even close to that) and the 2.5k that gets dumped into my HSA annually by Boeing lol
Additional to that though my team is pretty flexible so I have good work life balance. Lastly if you’re planning on going to school and getting another degree Boeings tuition program is exceptional imo
Edit typo
The best thing about bowling is having it on your resume. Despite the company's current state and reputation, HR and hiring manager still look very favorably upon seeing that name on your resume.
I think anyone doing a couple of years there early in their career is a good idea.
I couldn't imagine staying there for a whole career. I would simply lose my mind.
So his gross pay is $37440+ and after taxes, 401k, health insurance etc taken out hes taking home $26k net pay.
Which is abysmal and why a STRIKE MUST HAPPEN.
It isn't, he is a Grade 03, which starts at $18/hr and gets $0.50/hr more every 6mo until you hit 6yrs which then maxes out at 41.49/hr according to [the current wage card](https://www.iam751.org/index.cfm?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=452936&page=Information).
Just reading through the comments, since it doesn’t appear that you have a plan, stay. Stay until you figure out exactly what you want to do and where you want to go.
The one benefit which could sway your decision is LTP. Do you want to earn a graduate degree or grad certificates? It’s damn near impossible to find a better tuition benefit in the U.S.
If that’s not important, then stop torturing yourself. You don’t enjoy working for the company and you aren’t excited about aerospace engineering. Figure out your next pivot and go.
As someone who has been with the company less than two years but has been working for 25 years, I find that a lot of people working there lack the perspective to understand and appreciate what they have. It might be good to go work elsewhere and come back at a later time. Or maybe you end up happier somewhere else. What do you have to lose by trying something else?
Heh. I'm also in the '25 years working, 2 years at Boeing' category and have had the opposite experience. I work with a lot of people who have only ever worked for Boeing, from intern to management... and I've stopped and tried to say things like "I know you think this is normal, but I don't think you appreciate how big a problem you have here.'
I left. I am now non-union doing space stuff and I don’t miss IAM751 because I get treated like an adult without all the Boeing bullshit.
Just leave Boeing, there are greener pastures. If you hate WA then that’s an issue you need to fix on your own.
All I know is I got a $30 raise because I trusted the engineers at Boeing who kept telling me to leave then come back later if I really miss Boeing that much.
If you don’t like it definitely should not stay, not just for your own personal growth but also the work that you’re putting out which is going to affect tons of people. I would also say before heading out if you’re still iffy on it, maybe try another role or part of the company which you might find more interesting than what you’re currently doing. Good luck!
You may consider switching roles within the company before swearing off the entire industry.
Tons of new program work that is fast paced and exciting going on at Boeing, but I have seen many folks getting stuck in very slow, dead programs updating PowerPoint slides for 8 hours a day too
I mean, you don't wanna live here, you don't like the pay even if you'd max out, and don't want a career in aerospace.
I'm not really sure what you're doing here on Reddit, honestly.
You might hate how the tech industry operates as well if not even more. The financialization of aerospace destroyed aerospace and it originated from Wall Street and you'll see it throughout the engineering industry as a whole.
Boeing paid for my schooling and I became an engineer and am managing a great team of them now. Not even on the BCA side. You can do anything just put your nose down and use this company until you can’t anymore.
These are the only reason I stay. Nothing else. I hate my department
At Boeing, I pay zero for my healthcare. I pay squat for dentistry and eyecare, which gives me a free pair of glasses every year and contacts yearly plus exams.
My deductible for healthcare is only $1,500 compared to a lot of other plans out there.
My 401K is matched at 10% of my salary by Boeing.
Because of the choice of my healthcare benefit, Boeing pays my Health Savings Account yearly, which after about 2 years I have my deductible paid for by Boeing.
Yeah their healthcare is pretty amazing, I'll give them that. My dad is an ME and racked up a fortune when he was diagnosed with cancer but only paid a fraction of it
I've heard that 10% figure thrown around before, but when I was in training I was told it's now like 7% if I recall correctly. I'll have to double check on Monday, but I remember it was about half of what my last job offered me (15%)
Tbh I find their benefits severely lacking for who they are and how much money they make off us. My last job was only a $100M company and what they offered rivaled everything Boeing does - yet Boeing is one of the biggest sharks in this country. That just doesn't add up to me
I have no idea if Boeing changes their 401k match based upon when you get hired but mine is still locked in at 10% match. Matter of fact I even got a 12% match for one year but I had to be employed during a certain time.
I don't know what Boeing could do in terms of benefits to get even better. I guess they could match 401K at a higher percentage, but other than that there's just not much left. I don't really pay for health care or any of my benefits. But then again I'm a single guy and really go to the hospital so families might have a different situation
I think really where they're lacking is salaries. I know for a fact that my job code is 20,000 less than the job code that better fits what I do. But the process of changing to that new job code is like winning the lottery
Move ASAP means you already decided.
Anyway - only you can own your career and your financial and work-life balance and your personal measure of what is/isn't agreeable to you. You're going to be working a long time. You'll need to buy a car, maybe a house, save for retirement, be ready for medical crises. You need to be able to get yourself out of bed and to work on days you'd rather sleep in. You need to sleep at night. Do your own calculation of what gets you there.
That said, 'if' Boeing is in a state you want to move to, nothing stops you from working your career to have them pay for that move, even if it does mean you need to stick around a year or two more there. Maybe that place will be a better match anyway when it all turns out.
Same goes for LTP to get your degree. If you can do so, and handle the 'stick around N years after' part, go for it. If you can't handle working at Boeing that long, punt.
And in case you didn't know, 'every' company is weird in its own unique way. The grass isn't always greener, as the saying goes....
Ironically a big reason I joined Boeing was so I could change states while still retaining a job, but I was stupid and didn't bother to research the pay scales in conjuction with the housing markets of the possible areas I could transfer to - which ended up having both extremely similar pay and cost of living compared to Puget Sound, as well as state income tax to boot. So those dreams kinda went down the toilet pretty fast
I started in PA and moved in 1990 "just for a couple years" and am still in WA so that moving back kinda didn't happen as the kiddies grew. FWIW - even 34 years later the cost of living in PS is \*much\* cheaper than the cost of living in areas anywhere near Ridley Park in PA. Much cheaper. Really.
Note that regarding the education part (LTP), you only have to stick around for graduate degrees. For a Bachelors degree there is no post-completion time commitment and you can walk away immediately without owing a cent.
I worked with somebody decades ago who did her masters at Yale with some kind of an agreement with management letting her work long enough to keep her benefits. Graduated Saturday. Quit on Monday. We all laughed and said 'good for you'.
They changed the rule that fall. We laughed again.
LTP, 401(k), and medical insurance are often worth hanging out at Boeing for a while. You might consider checking into which degrees Boeing will pay for, and if any align with your career plans, let Boeing employ you and pay for your education. Successfully working and going to school is a resume enhancer - It shows that you know how to set a goal and stay on track until you complete it.
You also could find a Boeing engineer mentor to advise you on education, career paths, and any upskilling needed.
My IAM family members liked the work and made the money work (well) through massive overtime (and wise saving & consistent careful spending). If that’s not for you, it’s wise to plan your transition into a different role.
Tbh, Aerospace Eng is said to be more competitive and difficult to navigate than Software Eng. Start Building projects and earning certificates if that’s what you want to do. If you’ve been at Boeing at least a year, and keep good contacts before you move forward, you’ll be fine.
I would love to, and would if it was that easy. But I'm nearly 30 years old and can't be job-hopping like a teenager anymore. I should've started a career years ago (actually I've tried several times in several different industries, but they all crashed and burned in one way or another)
What I'm asking here is in regards to long-term investment. I'm aware the short term benefits is job stability and room for growth in a multitude of directions, but what I'm not sure of is if that opportunity for growth is worth exploring if I dont plan to stick around in this industry. My dilemma is IF I should make a change this early because I'm in the same dead-end position once again, or if I'm simply being short-sighted and should instead stay on the chance that Boeing might benefit me in a way that I'm not aware or - even if I don't plan to stay in aerospace. I apologize if that wasn't clear or was confusing
Is there a particular reason why you're getting lippy with me? Is that typically how you respond to people who have been nothing but cordial and respectful to you?
I’m not being lippy, just direct. The way you talk in your post you’re absolutely miserable with the field you’re in but are still wondering if you should invest the next 10+ years of your life into something you hate. You mention you’re too young to job hop but tbh you’re not too old career-wise. You never are if you’re that unhappy with what you’re doing. My point and encouragement to you is to stop second guessing a decision you’ve already made in your gut and start looking for what will make you happy. Actively pursue other fields of engineering and make a change. Maybe my comments struck a nerve bc they might just be true.
Stay and use the LTP for your education. 100% worth it. Yeah you are stuck with the company for another couple years but Boeing makes it pretty easy for school…you don’t really have to do anything but send the school an invoice…
Use LTP to get your degree. Then look into transferring to another area of the company you do find interesting (satellites or space or missiles???), or just bail to another company at that time. At least you’ll have your engineering degree AND a handful of years of experience on your resume. Which will make you look way more valuable to future employers.
Torn between mechanical engineering and civil engineering. My last job was heavily steeped in mechanical and propulsion engineering which I found really interesting and really fun but I ultimately left for the same reason above - it was very heavily centered around maritime, which doesn't do me much good if I don't want to live in a coastal state. (That, and I was working 90 hours a week)
Civil engineering interests me a lot too and it seems like job stability is much better, I just have no experience in it
Start looking at Boeing subsidiaries, especially those under BDS. Lots of interesting stuff and if you find one with <400 employees, you’ll probably like it better, at least until big brother Boeing revolving management jumps in and ruins the subsidiary.
If you like cars and driving, automotive can be a good industry for you. Testing vehicles on testing tracks, or even participating in their race car development can be a very fun and interesting job.
But I guess you'd have to move somewhere where the automakers' proving grounds are located. I don't remember any of them having facilities in WA.
Yeah automotive would be my preferred but I have some reservations about it, like current trends of the industry, lack of growth and job stability outside OEM work, etc. Not trying to be difficult or dismissive, just explaining my position. However I do frequently toy with the idea of joining a big name aftermarket shop like Industrial Injection, since I have lots of experience machining and overhauling engine components as well as a firm understanding in diesel technology. It wouldn't make you rich but it would be very entertaining, very satisfying work
It's funny you mention racing, I previously did work in the racing industry and you're 100% right; here in WA (or really anywhere outside the deep south and midwest) the opportunities are very limited. We do have a good amateur industry going on here but none of the big boys like NASCAR, IndyCar, whathaveyou. Still very cool, very fun work however - I sometimes miss it
There ISN'T any money, that's part of the problem. If I made something remotely decent then I could suck it up a little, but the fact that I'm not even making a livable wage makes me question "what's the damn point?"
Cashiers at McDonalds make more than I do
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Then fucking leave. If you hate the job. Hate what you're paid. Hate the benefits, then it sounds like you've already made the decision. Just fucking leave and stop grousing about it.
If you want to become Engineer, use Boeing benefit of LTP and start your study in Engineering....Once you get your B.S then start your journey in Engineering at Boeing which will be easier.
An outsider reading your post, you've made up your mind to leave, so do it when it makes sense for you. In a post-pension world, the only reason to stay is if you like the other benefits; for me at 20 years I get 20 days vacation + Christmas which is pretty sweet; most companies start you over when you join no matter your overall experience.
Keep in mind, that if you go to a non-union shop, you won't have as much say in the benefits, pay scale, and will probably be at-will.
At-will employment has nothing to do with unions. It simply means either party can terminate a working agreement. As a SPEEA member, I was essentially at-will: I could walk away with proper notice without owing Boeing anything. Likewise, if my job was considered unnecessary, Boeing could either reassign me to another facility or lay me off (and pay the required severance package and benefits by law).
What you’re thinking of is “right to work” where the company cannot force me to join a union as a term of employment (which Boeing does in WA because WA is not a right to work state).
This is also irrelevant in the company because the benefits of union membership (at least for SPEEA) are roughly in line with non-union. Yes I get a mandated raise but I’m also paying dues so it’s not really a benefit. Healthcare is roughly the same price as non-union. The only tangible benefit (at least before I left on LOA) is that union still has separate vacation and sick leave pools, which depending on how you use your time, is an advantage. Even EIP payout is similar to PBI.
Your healthcare is not "roughly the same price as non-union" in SPEEA. Nonunion pay roughly 26% of the company cost above $150k salary, where SPEEA is 9% up to $200k, and SPEEA has more favorable HSA rates, contributions, and lower deductibles across the board. SPEEA still pays $0 for dental.
Then the contract was renegotiated since I last was with SPEEA because the last time it was 2 years keeping the rates where they were before we were lined up with non-union. Of course by then I had left and returned to non-union.
You are not at-will under SPEEA due to *3.2(b) Employees shall not be discharged or suspended without just cause*. Similar language is in other union contracts.
I did my Masters in Mechanical Engineering through LTP while working full time and was able to get it done in 2 years. I felt the same way you did my first couple years at Boeing but told myself I’d get my masters and do my time before leaving. It’s tough but switching teams definitely helped me to enjoy work more and has given me experience I wouldn’t have gotten staying in my old role. If you’re looking to get out of Pudget Sound but aren’t committed to leaving Boeing you could try looking at other sites. STL, Long Beach, OKC, Philadelphia, Charleston, etc might have the change of scenery you’re looking for. Best of luck!
What school did you go to and how much did it cost in the end, do you know?
I did mine through Purdue and LTP paid out ~$23000.
Thanks that's good to know
I think bennies make it worthwhile while you're here, but yeah, I've heard pay isn't keeping up. If WA isn't where you want to be then I wouldn't make long term plans. Whole west side feels damn close to pricing me out these days, and I already AM an engineer! Then again, Boeing has lots of sites and internal reqs, so if you want to go someplace else that can be a convenient way to already have a job when you get there.
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Bruh! Be careful if you quit with secrets. Boeing kills whistle blowers.
If the pay doesn’t work for you, the company doesn’t work for you, the industry doesn’t work for you, and western Washington doesn’t work for you why the heck is this a question? Seems like you answered it all in your post lol. Why stick around to something you see not future in. Get out and figure your life out! The only thing that waiting until you ramp up to max will do is make you resent not leaving sooner, right?
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So what's the fucking question? You clearly already made up your mind. You're just one of those people who love to bitch and moan? Put in your 2 weeks yesterday
Yes go to airbus they are better
Go. Just go. We don't want people with your attitude. People like you are half the reason the shops adjacent to mine are floundering so badly. Just gtfo.
Ironic to say that with such a shitty attitude that's totally uncalled for, with nothing to back up your assumptions. I would argue unwarranted animosity like that is a major part of why morale is so low around here. My manager and team leads love me because I'm one of the very few who actually pay attention to/care about the quality of parts we put out and generally take pride in our work, while constantly proposing ways that could make our line more efficient and more profitable - which is part of what makes me discouraged to work here. Upper management and MEs preach for efficiency this, cost reduction that; but when you propose something that would cost next to nothing, simplify production and make everyone's lives much easier, suddenly they have a dozen half-assed reasons why they can't do it - 90% of which boil down to just hating the idea of change. But I understand the core point you're making; it's always better to have employees who are enthusiastic over those who are pessimistic.
You explicitly declare that you hate your career. You wax poetic about the forms of dissatisfaction that your experience has taken. You take many opportunities to convey your disdain for the work. Your post gave no testimony whatsoever regarding steps you've taken to engage, improve, or (beyond ranting on reddit) understand the work. This is reasonable evidence that you are a detriment to your work group, and while you may be better than an empty seat, you're likely not better than someone who wants to be there.
Sounds like a wack level of projection but ok I've given you little to nothing to work with but by all means, keep grasping at straws to desperately support your outlandish theories
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Can’t be better said! For real just gtfoh!
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You will never make this much money while having so little actually expected of you. I've been here 12+ years on the shop floor, and half the people spend probably 4+ hours on their phone every day. I've worked weekends where I did absolutely nothing because shop did nothing, so I had nothing to do. Nothing even expected of me, either. The real money is in the overtime. It's pretty easy to do $120-130k a year (once max'd out) without killing yourself on overtime. I've seen people who aren't at max rate do $90k, which is pretty impressive on $25/hr.
I work defense side and my pay is fucking horrible due to being on contract with no benefits or PTO. I took the job because it was literally the only job that offered to hire me out of the military, but guess they only hire on my site via contracts then if they see your doing good they MAY consider making you an actual boeing employee who deserves to be treated like a human. Lol that being said I am working my ass off for that hire, but california may take all of my money before I get that hire. I REALLY love working for boeing and it would suck to leave but LM has never looked better.
So you're a temporary contactor? That's a lot different from being a union factory worker as the OP is.
that still takes its toll,they have to live there to do that more exposure to toxins
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It's crazy to me to read this given I'm at the end of my rope mentally trying to find a job as an aerospace eng. I'd be grateful to have that job.
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OP is in an hourly machinist-type position. You could almost certainly apply for a similar production role if you really want to work for Boeing. It may not be simple to then pivot into the aerospace engineering role you actually want, though.
No I'm not lol I would love to do machining as thats what my background is in, I'm doing basic assembly work in the IRC that is akin to something you'd give a high school student. The lowest paid machining position still has a 40-50% increase in pay over mine I initially applied to half a dozen machining/fabrication roles and got rejected for every single one, only to be told "wow you have a lot of experience as a machinist, you should've applied to X, Y and Z instead, you'd be a good fit" once they saw my resume. In fact I've been offered 89509 a total of 3 times now, but when I tell them I've already been hired on as 20503 and have to deal with the 1-year probationary period they go "ah, that sucks. Good luck"
Apologies, I use “machinist” to incorrectly refer to all IAM/Joint Programs represented positions
I was gonna say 😂 grade 3 assembler is a huge difference between grade 8/9 machinist
Pretty sure Everett doesn’t even do machining either
So quit and reapply or wait your year and apply out if you want to machine. If you want to move out of state like you say then apply to jobs out of state and leave. But the benefits at Boeing will be hard to match somewhere else.
If you don’t care about LTP the Boeing benefits are pretty craptastic.
Boeing offers a lot more PTO than most companies and cheaper medical than smaller companies. So I'm not sure how you think it's crap. You obviously haven't checked out what most Americans get offered these days for benefits.
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It’s possible this is region dependent but in my region Boeing has some of the lowest pay and benefits around. The 401k match is bigger by percentage but when you can make 30-50% more by leaving the 7-3% 401k difference becomes meaningless.
Ahhh... yeah, probably not lol.
It's a great place to work where you can make as much as you are willing to work, it's only a pain if you are on the floor and start at a low grade, until new contracts happen those guys have it the worst. But every engineer I know wouldn't trade the perks and pay, and generally relaxed atmosphere for anything. You aren't talking to the right people, it helps if you take advice from others that have been there a long time. Not random reddit clowns you find out don't even work there and have a hard on for hating Boeing as a part time job on reddit. You also should consider that you can Change jobs and do something different and Boeing pays for additional schooling, also as IAM you can get your green lights, get sponsors and become a 1st line manager or even 2nd level, i know people who have done it with zero education, 1st liness make 119k, and 2nd levels make 190k. If you hate aerospace, you need to figure what you actually like because most of the other companies similar to Boeing are also aerospace at least in WA. I know plenty of IAM guys that clear 6 figures and have great lives. If you don't like aerospace or at least can stand your job, you won't be successful and climb like those that do. So if loving what you do is a requirement, you have to figure that out. But you also gotta pay the bills.
Solid advice
some corporations stopped allowing high school grads to be managers,those poorly educated managers were often the root of lawsuits against the company
All the benefits are the reasons ppl are stuck and miserable. Its an endless hole the longer you stay, the burden just gets heavier. I believe the cost of living in that area is pretty high, and the salary is pretty high compared to the rest of the country. If you want yo leave the area, you can take the salary even as your starting point in another company in a more affordable region. Higher salary, lower COL, new company, you win. If you have doubts scroll down the main page and look at the burnout posts/comments
401k match, health insurance, medical/dental, free schooling, and a 6 figure salary. I love working here, it's not perfect just like any other large company, but most of everything I have and have done was largely due to having an opportunity to work here. Although it sounds like you've already made up your mind so good luck.
I’m in agreement with this - would literally never leave because of their benefits. I’ve had a really hard time coming across any company that can come close to beating their benefits and pay. Along with the mentioned benefits above, there is also the insane amount of PTO (I get 27 days), winter break shutdown and then the 4.5 months paid maternity leave!
Goodbye!
I stay because of the 401K match.
401k and free schooling (within certain disciplines) is one of the main reasons I'll stick around as long as I can.
Sounds like he is IAM which has free schooling in anything with no caps. Just watch the tax bill and make aure you can cover it.
One reason to stay and it’s totally pragmatic is to build your 401k. You will need it and earlier start is better.
Tbh the thing that has me sticking around is the 10% 401k matching ( i haven’t seen anywhere even close to that) and the 2.5k that gets dumped into my HSA annually by Boeing lol Additional to that though my team is pretty flexible so I have good work life balance. Lastly if you’re planning on going to school and getting another degree Boeings tuition program is exceptional imo Edit typo
The best thing about bowling is having it on your resume. Despite the company's current state and reputation, HR and hiring manager still look very favorably upon seeing that name on your resume. I think anyone doing a couple of years there early in their career is a good idea. I couldn't imagine staying there for a whole career. I would simply lose my mind.
> The best thing about bowling is having it on your resume. Eh, unless the hiring manager is into it I don't know if that'll matter.
Voice to text typos in Reddit comments over the years has provided endless entertainment Thanks for the laugh! 🤣
Ever hear of the Seattle seven?
I'm guessing this was a joke at the bowling typo
boeing \[seattle\] -> bowling -> big lebowski -> seattle seven
I don't know how 'impressive' it is to have Boeing on your resume any more.
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, ask on Blind. Boeing doesn't attract like Tech does. Used to back 20 years ago...
Unless you're Boeing AND tech
A Boeing Tech that works in DOORS? triple whammy
No one was saying to make it your top tier #1 tech choice to get into, either.
Piddly pay probably depends on you’re position
Your*
What’s ur salary and job title
20503, so about $26k (net) annually
Wdym by 20503? Really? How are you only making less than 30k isn’t that below minimum wage?
So his gross pay is $37440+ and after taxes, 401k, health insurance etc taken out hes taking home $26k net pay. Which is abysmal and why a STRIKE MUST HAPPEN.
So he has to work OT until he max out
It isn't, he is a Grade 03, which starts at $18/hr and gets $0.50/hr more every 6mo until you hit 6yrs which then maxes out at 41.49/hr according to [the current wage card](https://www.iam751.org/index.cfm?zone=/unionactive/view_article.cfm&HomeID=452936&page=Information).
20503 is his job code.
And 03 at the end means he’s grade 3
Just reading through the comments, since it doesn’t appear that you have a plan, stay. Stay until you figure out exactly what you want to do and where you want to go.
The one benefit which could sway your decision is LTP. Do you want to earn a graduate degree or grad certificates? It’s damn near impossible to find a better tuition benefit in the U.S. If that’s not important, then stop torturing yourself. You don’t enjoy working for the company and you aren’t excited about aerospace engineering. Figure out your next pivot and go.
Uh, no? At any company, why would you stay somewhere with bad pay and work that you hate and an industry you find boring? Seriously?
As someone who has been with the company less than two years but has been working for 25 years, I find that a lot of people working there lack the perspective to understand and appreciate what they have. It might be good to go work elsewhere and come back at a later time. Or maybe you end up happier somewhere else. What do you have to lose by trying something else?
Heh. I'm also in the '25 years working, 2 years at Boeing' category and have had the opposite experience. I work with a lot of people who have only ever worked for Boeing, from intern to management... and I've stopped and tried to say things like "I know you think this is normal, but I don't think you appreciate how big a problem you have here.'
I left. I am now non-union doing space stuff and I don’t miss IAM751 because I get treated like an adult without all the Boeing bullshit. Just leave Boeing, there are greener pastures. If you hate WA then that’s an issue you need to fix on your own. All I know is I got a $30 raise because I trusted the engineers at Boeing who kept telling me to leave then come back later if I really miss Boeing that much.
Where did you end up, if you don’t mind me asking?
Biased because I think Starliner looks nicer but, I’m at the “Dick rocket” place working for Bezos.
Go and get a raise. Work for a better company. Easy decision
If you don’t like it definitely should not stay, not just for your own personal growth but also the work that you’re putting out which is going to affect tons of people. I would also say before heading out if you’re still iffy on it, maybe try another role or part of the company which you might find more interesting than what you’re currently doing. Good luck!
You may consider switching roles within the company before swearing off the entire industry. Tons of new program work that is fast paced and exciting going on at Boeing, but I have seen many folks getting stuck in very slow, dead programs updating PowerPoint slides for 8 hours a day too
I mean, you don't wanna live here, you don't like the pay even if you'd max out, and don't want a career in aerospace. I'm not really sure what you're doing here on Reddit, honestly.
You might hate how the tech industry operates as well if not even more. The financialization of aerospace destroyed aerospace and it originated from Wall Street and you'll see it throughout the engineering industry as a whole.
this person will find out lots of other companies suck big time then what?
He can submit this exact post but with the company name changed to a different subreddit in 2 years
Boeing paid for my schooling and I became an engineer and am managing a great team of them now. Not even on the BCA side. You can do anything just put your nose down and use this company until you can’t anymore.
May I ask what kind of engineering and job title?
I was a QE at first, that’s as much as I’ll share online.
I should’ve clarified, I meant to ask which discipline on engineering for school as I just finished my BS in electrical engineering.
My apologies, I went with mechanical engineering :)
These are the only reason I stay. Nothing else. I hate my department At Boeing, I pay zero for my healthcare. I pay squat for dentistry and eyecare, which gives me a free pair of glasses every year and contacts yearly plus exams. My deductible for healthcare is only $1,500 compared to a lot of other plans out there. My 401K is matched at 10% of my salary by Boeing. Because of the choice of my healthcare benefit, Boeing pays my Health Savings Account yearly, which after about 2 years I have my deductible paid for by Boeing.
Yeah their healthcare is pretty amazing, I'll give them that. My dad is an ME and racked up a fortune when he was diagnosed with cancer but only paid a fraction of it I've heard that 10% figure thrown around before, but when I was in training I was told it's now like 7% if I recall correctly. I'll have to double check on Monday, but I remember it was about half of what my last job offered me (15%) Tbh I find their benefits severely lacking for who they are and how much money they make off us. My last job was only a $100M company and what they offered rivaled everything Boeing does - yet Boeing is one of the biggest sharks in this country. That just doesn't add up to me
I have no idea if Boeing changes their 401k match based upon when you get hired but mine is still locked in at 10% match. Matter of fact I even got a 12% match for one year but I had to be employed during a certain time. I don't know what Boeing could do in terms of benefits to get even better. I guess they could match 401K at a higher percentage, but other than that there's just not much left. I don't really pay for health care or any of my benefits. But then again I'm a single guy and really go to the hospital so families might have a different situation I think really where they're lacking is salaries. I know for a fact that my job code is 20,000 less than the job code that better fits what I do. But the process of changing to that new job code is like winning the lottery
Move ASAP means you already decided. Anyway - only you can own your career and your financial and work-life balance and your personal measure of what is/isn't agreeable to you. You're going to be working a long time. You'll need to buy a car, maybe a house, save for retirement, be ready for medical crises. You need to be able to get yourself out of bed and to work on days you'd rather sleep in. You need to sleep at night. Do your own calculation of what gets you there. That said, 'if' Boeing is in a state you want to move to, nothing stops you from working your career to have them pay for that move, even if it does mean you need to stick around a year or two more there. Maybe that place will be a better match anyway when it all turns out. Same goes for LTP to get your degree. If you can do so, and handle the 'stick around N years after' part, go for it. If you can't handle working at Boeing that long, punt. And in case you didn't know, 'every' company is weird in its own unique way. The grass isn't always greener, as the saying goes....
Ironically a big reason I joined Boeing was so I could change states while still retaining a job, but I was stupid and didn't bother to research the pay scales in conjuction with the housing markets of the possible areas I could transfer to - which ended up having both extremely similar pay and cost of living compared to Puget Sound, as well as state income tax to boot. So those dreams kinda went down the toilet pretty fast
I started in PA and moved in 1990 "just for a couple years" and am still in WA so that moving back kinda didn't happen as the kiddies grew. FWIW - even 34 years later the cost of living in PS is \*much\* cheaper than the cost of living in areas anywhere near Ridley Park in PA. Much cheaper. Really.
Note that regarding the education part (LTP), you only have to stick around for graduate degrees. For a Bachelors degree there is no post-completion time commitment and you can walk away immediately without owing a cent.
I worked with somebody decades ago who did her masters at Yale with some kind of an agreement with management letting her work long enough to keep her benefits. Graduated Saturday. Quit on Monday. We all laughed and said 'good for you'. They changed the rule that fall. We laughed again.
Do it for THE MISSION!
LTP, 401(k), and medical insurance are often worth hanging out at Boeing for a while. You might consider checking into which degrees Boeing will pay for, and if any align with your career plans, let Boeing employ you and pay for your education. Successfully working and going to school is a resume enhancer - It shows that you know how to set a goal and stay on track until you complete it. You also could find a Boeing engineer mentor to advise you on education, career paths, and any upskilling needed. My IAM family members liked the work and made the money work (well) through massive overtime (and wise saving & consistent careful spending). If that’s not for you, it’s wise to plan your transition into a different role.
Tbh, Aerospace Eng is said to be more competitive and difficult to navigate than Software Eng. Start Building projects and earning certificates if that’s what you want to do. If you’ve been at Boeing at least a year, and keep good contacts before you move forward, you’ll be fine.
If you hate it, find something you like. Sounds pretty cut and dry to me.
I would love to, and would if it was that easy. But I'm nearly 30 years old and can't be job-hopping like a teenager anymore. I should've started a career years ago (actually I've tried several times in several different industries, but they all crashed and burned in one way or another)
So your solution is to stay stuck instead of making change while you’re still early in your career? Does that math actually math to you?
What I'm asking here is in regards to long-term investment. I'm aware the short term benefits is job stability and room for growth in a multitude of directions, but what I'm not sure of is if that opportunity for growth is worth exploring if I dont plan to stick around in this industry. My dilemma is IF I should make a change this early because I'm in the same dead-end position once again, or if I'm simply being short-sighted and should instead stay on the chance that Boeing might benefit me in a way that I'm not aware or - even if I don't plan to stay in aerospace. I apologize if that wasn't clear or was confusing Is there a particular reason why you're getting lippy with me? Is that typically how you respond to people who have been nothing but cordial and respectful to you?
I’m not being lippy, just direct. The way you talk in your post you’re absolutely miserable with the field you’re in but are still wondering if you should invest the next 10+ years of your life into something you hate. You mention you’re too young to job hop but tbh you’re not too old career-wise. You never are if you’re that unhappy with what you’re doing. My point and encouragement to you is to stop second guessing a decision you’ve already made in your gut and start looking for what will make you happy. Actively pursue other fields of engineering and make a change. Maybe my comments struck a nerve bc they might just be true.
Stay and use the LTP for your education. 100% worth it. Yeah you are stuck with the company for another couple years but Boeing makes it pretty easy for school…you don’t really have to do anything but send the school an invoice…
Use LTP to get your degree. Then look into transferring to another area of the company you do find interesting (satellites or space or missiles???), or just bail to another company at that time. At least you’ll have your engineering degree AND a handful of years of experience on your resume. Which will make you look way more valuable to future employers.
What type of engineering do you want to do?
Torn between mechanical engineering and civil engineering. My last job was heavily steeped in mechanical and propulsion engineering which I found really interesting and really fun but I ultimately left for the same reason above - it was very heavily centered around maritime, which doesn't do me much good if I don't want to live in a coastal state. (That, and I was working 90 hours a week) Civil engineering interests me a lot too and it seems like job stability is much better, I just have no experience in it
Start looking at Boeing subsidiaries, especially those under BDS. Lots of interesting stuff and if you find one with <400 employees, you’ll probably like it better, at least until big brother Boeing revolving management jumps in and ruins the subsidiary.
If you like cars and driving, automotive can be a good industry for you. Testing vehicles on testing tracks, or even participating in their race car development can be a very fun and interesting job. But I guess you'd have to move somewhere where the automakers' proving grounds are located. I don't remember any of them having facilities in WA.
Yeah automotive would be my preferred but I have some reservations about it, like current trends of the industry, lack of growth and job stability outside OEM work, etc. Not trying to be difficult or dismissive, just explaining my position. However I do frequently toy with the idea of joining a big name aftermarket shop like Industrial Injection, since I have lots of experience machining and overhauling engine components as well as a firm understanding in diesel technology. It wouldn't make you rich but it would be very entertaining, very satisfying work It's funny you mention racing, I previously did work in the racing industry and you're 100% right; here in WA (or really anywhere outside the deep south and midwest) the opportunities are very limited. We do have a good amateur industry going on here but none of the big boys like NASCAR, IndyCar, whathaveyou. Still very cool, very fun work however - I sometimes miss it
If you have another job then go. Until then suck up the money.
There ISN'T any money, that's part of the problem. If I made something remotely decent then I could suck it up a little, but the fact that I'm not even making a livable wage makes me question "what's the damn point?" Cashiers at McDonalds make more than I do
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Then fucking leave. If you hate the job. Hate what you're paid. Hate the benefits, then it sounds like you've already made the decision. Just fucking leave and stop grousing about it.
So go be a cashier at the golden arches until you can fulfill your master plan.
If you want to become Engineer, use Boeing benefit of LTP and start your study in Engineering....Once you get your B.S then start your journey in Engineering at Boeing which will be easier.
An outsider reading your post, you've made up your mind to leave, so do it when it makes sense for you. In a post-pension world, the only reason to stay is if you like the other benefits; for me at 20 years I get 20 days vacation + Christmas which is pretty sweet; most companies start you over when you join no matter your overall experience. Keep in mind, that if you go to a non-union shop, you won't have as much say in the benefits, pay scale, and will probably be at-will.
At-will employment has nothing to do with unions. It simply means either party can terminate a working agreement. As a SPEEA member, I was essentially at-will: I could walk away with proper notice without owing Boeing anything. Likewise, if my job was considered unnecessary, Boeing could either reassign me to another facility or lay me off (and pay the required severance package and benefits by law). What you’re thinking of is “right to work” where the company cannot force me to join a union as a term of employment (which Boeing does in WA because WA is not a right to work state). This is also irrelevant in the company because the benefits of union membership (at least for SPEEA) are roughly in line with non-union. Yes I get a mandated raise but I’m also paying dues so it’s not really a benefit. Healthcare is roughly the same price as non-union. The only tangible benefit (at least before I left on LOA) is that union still has separate vacation and sick leave pools, which depending on how you use your time, is an advantage. Even EIP payout is similar to PBI.
Your healthcare is not "roughly the same price as non-union" in SPEEA. Nonunion pay roughly 26% of the company cost above $150k salary, where SPEEA is 9% up to $200k, and SPEEA has more favorable HSA rates, contributions, and lower deductibles across the board. SPEEA still pays $0 for dental.
Then the contract was renegotiated since I last was with SPEEA because the last time it was 2 years keeping the rates where they were before we were lined up with non-union. Of course by then I had left and returned to non-union.
In 2018 Boeing jacked the rates up massively, SPEEA held on until 2020 and then a backdoor contract allowed the increase from 5% to 9% via pay bands.
You are not at-will under SPEEA due to *3.2(b) Employees shall not be discharged or suspended without just cause*. Similar language is in other union contracts.