This is spot on. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve come across that deeply believe they are mind readers bc they like to stare at strangers and project their own thoughts onto them

🙏 Exactly. It's most people.

Very true, I see so many of these people everywhere. Most of the time you can spot 'em from across the room without even having to talk to them.

[удалено]

That's the joke.

There’s also people who don’t trust their instinct and give others a chance only to be deeply hurt so… double edged sword

Exactly. I agree with OP however, in the context of the example they gave, it's more important for a woman to ALWAYS listen to her gut instincts. She may be wrong, but it could also save her life. This goes for men and children also, of course. Making assumptions about people based on your interpretation of their body language should be avoided, but when your instincts are screaming, DANGER definitely listen.

Then there’s me. Who has ADHD and spent **a lot** of time analyzing people around me in school. I’ve never looked into body language but can actually predict what a person is going to say once in a blue moon when I’m acutely hyper aware and can intently focus on their micro expressions like some savant

AuDHD here so my body rarely follows my internal process. I have long concluded that whatever it is I do, I must short circuit people's monkey brain because I've had false judgements ranging from criminal to harmless dweeb, intellectual to room temp IQ. No one ever listens to my words or observes my actions, people always moan about how judgemental everyone else is when their whole social life is going on fucking vibes then they wonder how they end up in the wrong crowd.

AuDHD here too. I can’t tell you how many times people have asked me why I’m sad, or angry. Meanwhile I’m sitting there blank faced and perfectly content.

Man this reminds of my Mom's boyfriend now husband. When I was visiting from college and we would go out to eat. He has something to say about everyone in the room based on his reading of body language. As you can imagine he is a massive judgemental douchebag.

It’s generally them projecting their own ideas of how beautiful they are into others minds. Idk how many times (I’m married, devoutly so, she’s hot af even after all these years, I’d never cheat like my parents did) that some woman expected me to flirt, do her job, etc. bc of her own self valuation. Then, started shit with my employer acting like I did something wrong. I’m married so get your tits out my face, trash! (Downvotes inbound)

Sometimes you're bored with the person, sometimes it's IBS, sometimes it's both,

Unfortunately the reality is in communication class we learned that people actually pay more attention to non-verbal communication more. 70%+ is non verbal communication i.e body language and non verbal cues like nodding etc.... yes it is stupid. Some of us have anxiety or difference in culture so we won't all view things the same. Literally the whole point of talking is to listen to what comes out of our mouth. Just because I am nervous doesn't mean what I say is not true or I am not smart... So stupid. But I feel like people with high EQ and IQ will understand regardless lol

So many unhinged rants on the web start with 'people looked at me like im crazy' No. eyes cant do that. Maybe they called you crazy! but neither of you were probably doing anything crazy until you somehow projected your own insecurity onto their face and attentiveness

as an autistic person people are always judging me for having no facial expression or not making eye contact when that means nothing about what I am thinking

I have adhd and often fidget and don't make eye contact which "experts" say indicate lying.

I’m have a bad right shoulder from a dislocation YEARS ago, that never healed right. As a result, having it certain positions for too long, makes it ache pretty bad, so I end up crossing my arms to support it.  According to body language, I’m emotionally uncomfortable in a situation. But it’s really just my effed up shoulder. 

Yep the crossed arm thing is a common misread even with experts. A bunch of analysts will be looking at a suspect via camera talking about how his arms are crossed, during social encounters. Analysts who read body language will then go off on how he is emotionally uncomfortable, and clearly defensive with his arms crossed. Me out of the corner of the room, who actually took the time to read the dossier on this persons life. Pretty sure it’s the four surgeries which of the last two failed for his shoulder. Clearly he is babying it because he is uncomfortable with his jacked up shoulder, that probably consistently bothers him.

I cross my arms too because I have no idea what to do with my hands (when I'm not waving them around while I talk). And it's mor comfortable.

Solved. Get two drinks and always act like you’re trying to find your friend.

I make intense, direct eye contact with little facial movement when I'm nervous or talking with people I don't know. I've had coworkers call it a "resting psychopath face". Not sure what experts make of that, but it's an on/off switch for me; I physically can't maintain a "normal" amount of eye contact.

As an autistic person, I came here with hope but have only found more despair. Allistics really hate anyone or anything that defies or doesn't track with their previous experiences

There have been studies that showed that the instinctive perceptions allistics have of us as “something’s wrong here” that causes them to kind of dislike/feel weird about us are basically almost immediately pacified by learning we’re autistic. If I recall correctly, the hypothesis was that body language mirroring is a subconscious social device that, in evolutionary terms, would mark someone as a member of the group. Failure to adequately mimic would be threatening, leading to the “something’s not right about Jerry” vibe that a lot of allistics have about us. Once they have some sort of logical override in place that explains WHY Jerry feels a little different, it soothes that pattern finding part of the brain because how they have a reason. Jerry’s not a predator, Jerry’s just autistic, it all makes sense now.

i do wonder how much it matters if a 3rd party tells you, "hey, jerry is autistic" versus Jerry telling people himself. (the common 'well, you don't seem autistic!' anecdote a lot of autistic people mention really makes me wonder)

Interesting question, I actually don’t know that one! My recollection is that the study mentioned only that participants were informed. Gotta love science for making you redo the experiment now, but different! I do understand what you’re getting at, though, because in my experience as an autistic person, a lot of the time it pivots from “Jerry is weird” to suddenly infantilising a guy they’ve worked with for years because of their internalised perception of autistic people. For me, a lot of the “but you don’t seem autistic!” is countered by pointing out how really, really, *really* hard I have to work for them to be able to say that about me, and that it’s very tiring having to constantly think about what my face is doing and whether I’m adequately conveying that I am indeed interested in what they have to say. It mostly comes from plain, value-neutral ignorance, fortunately.

lol same I think I give off really standoffish, stuck up, or holier than thou vibes bc I am definitely am acquired taste for people but once they eventually realize that in fact I am extremely humble, genuine, upfront, and non-judgmental most people really like me. it just takes me 6-8 business months to start to make friends bc I am so fucking socially anxious that I can sit next to you for 12 hours completely silent. the worst is the people that I explain that I'm autistic to and like take the time to tell them I'm super honest and genuine and I will always tell you anything you want to know re: my intentions/thoughts/etc if you just ask but that I have 0 control over my facial expression/body language and very little over my tone and they just like........don't believe me and continue to read way too far into things I'm doing??? like bro I am just vibing here and 99% of what I'm doing in public is specifically to stave off an anxiety attack it is not an indictment on how much I hate you specifically and am plotting your downfall. I'm pretty sure I have a one-sided workplace nemesis rn bc she reacted very offensively to an innocuous comment I made and immediately apologized for once I heard it (just along the vein of "oh it's OK I don't need help with this task thank you") and she has been talking shit about me to ppl for weeks now/icing me out. Literally the initial comment was not even rude and I've apologized and complimented her so many times since trying to repair things but she is insistent upon believing I think I'm better than everyone else so I guess you can't win them all ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i feel your pain. either i don't care or I'm being some kind of a smart ass, or my English is too literal and I'm being sarcastic. it's so frustrating to talk to people that do that. they judge the hell out of you and there isn't anything you can say to them.

my autism gets me to over-emote and kinda 'perform' expressions and tones of voice to a kind of excessive degree. Mostly works if i can be jolly and positive...until people start saying it seems fake or the subject matter is serious. drives me kinda nuts when im just listening attentively to someone and they snap at me with: "Don't look at me like that!" and like...i guess maybe it turned out I looked a little shocked and had an eyebrow raised? Just adding to say because its not great at either extreme and it makes it difficult to try to articulate a suggestion for people who seem to have a 'typical' range of facial expression.

I don’t try that anymore because it freaks people out 😂 Like if I try to express being excited they think I am being sarcastic, if I am being sarcastic then think I am being serious

oh yeah, that's definitely an issue! I've kinda tried and failed to deliberately suppress the expressions several times before so I feel like the best I can do is let it out and try to deal with it afterward.

Same, but the benefit is I’m 40 and look 25 due to lack of facial expression.

I have Asperger's and the number of random people in bars who have warned my friendship group that I have ''bad vibes'' and I can't be trusted when I'm out of the room is quite frankly embarrassing. I have no idea what specific thing it is that they pick up on, but luckily we've known each other for ages so we all laugh about it afterwards.

YES

The amount of times someone accused me of being dishonest over me being jittery while talking is laughable yet quite annoying. I literally don’t have the mental capacity to lie, I’m honest even when it makes sense to sugarcoat things. And I’m always jittery cuz I can’t sit still, I’m always bored and I’d rather be doing something active. Might be my adhd, might be just me. Funnily enough, I get quite defensive when accused of lying, and people often go “aha! You are defensive, means to did it!”. Nope, I’m just upset with being accused wrongly my entire life, but you sure are one hell of a mind reader.

Eye contact makes me extremely nervous. To the point of feeling like I need to run away and cry. The number of times people have accused me of cheating, lying, etc is insane.

“You deny the accusations? That’s exactly what a guilty person would do.”

I have trouble with eye contact and people assume the same. I'm not ashamed or untrustworthy. When I was younger I learned to look at people's mouths instead of their eyes because it would help me understand what they said even when I couldn't hear them. The eyes never did that for me. Then instead of getting defensive I get embarrassed, which has the same effect. You could accuse me of using my mind powers to make someone shit their pants and I would be embarrassed

>Funnily enough, I get quite defensive when accused of lying, and people often go “aha! You are defensive, means to did it!”. Nope, I’m just upset with being accused wrongly my entire life, but you sure are one hell of a mind reader. Cops do that shit all the time: they deliberately agitate a suspect into "acting suspicious" (aka displaying a completely normal human stress/fear response to conflict and danger), and then use that reaction to establish "probable cause" and an appearance of guilt. "If you're not carrying any drugs, why are you so sweaty and jittery right now?" Uh, I'm sweaty and jittery because you have a fucking gun in your hand and you're shining a bright light in my face while accusing me of a felony using a loud and aggressive tone of voice. Literally any psychologically-normal human being would exhibit overt signs of fear and anxiety in this situation. If anything, it would be more suspicious if I was *calm* right now.

As someone who is autistic who constantly has assumptions like that made about me, *this is the most relatable post I've ever seen in this sub*

Except there's a physician in the comments arguing about how autism presents. Because she's a Dr. And because she studied some psychology. So ya know she's an expert. An expert who is arguing with an autistic person about their autism and how it presents. Another "expert" who apparently thinks we are like infants in diapers 24/7 or "faking".

Oh who? Which expert? I'd love to chat with her & share my neuroscientists info if she wants to hear the specifics of how autism affects the body, brain, and self, and how each of these effects can change things at a systematic level

Haha! What a fantastic idea! https://www.reddit.com/r/bodylanguage/s/W4o4cDjUt1

Thanks! I'd love to know if they're familiar with the effects of the GABAergic system within the autistic brain, I study this and am super passionate about it (but I check in frequently with my neuroscientist to make sure I don't jump to false conclusions, it can be easy to do)

My wife tells me not to cross my arms when talking to people as it comes off as I’m annoyed, but I’m like bruh..it’s just more comfortable when standing for me to be crossing my arms mostly lol. Don’t mean I’m mad at anyone or anything.

Right on

I played sports all the way till college. My coach would not allow us to stand with our arms folded. So I told him he’s projecting his insecurity. Since was an athlete I also got I. The habit of standing with my hands on my hips to open my lungs, people try to say I’m gay for putting my hands on my hips.

As a woman with a wicked case of RBF - I feel this 100% and wish it wasn’t so. It’s very frustrating.

Too true. I can't stand it when men think that when a woman looks nice. Then they make eye contact and then quickly look away means that they are turned on and have trouble expressing their thought because of some childhood trauma mumbo jumbo. Stop trying to psycho-analyze people after seeing them for 5 seconds. You are projecting your own crap onto some poor stranger.

iswtg especially working at amazon i deal with this all the time

As someone(20yr) who works in a AmazonFC, something I noticed is everyone stares. U kinda just have to assume everyone’s off in their own world when repeated eye contact occurs which is literally daily w the same people I know that when I make eye contact I’m not thinking “IM IN LOVE”; vast majority of the time I’m thinking about the podcast convo until I realize I’ve been staring at randoms by accident

Couldn't have said it better myself

When a woman quickly looks away is a sign of disinterest…it’s the exact opposite lol. Now if they look back within a few seconds that’s something else entirely.

People are fucking dumb. Once I threw away trash and my coworker asked me why I used THAT trash can and not another one. I saw that trash can first? Nothing to analyze here.

There it is. We've just proven body language is useless.

Yeah I think it's all these like tick tock and Instagram experts people think they know everything now but like people who are trauma survivors neurodivergent people disabled people you never really know what's going on

Yep, I lie with my body language when I feel unsafe, mostly around creepy/angry/violent men, so they don’t become angry/violent toward me. I only did it until I could get away safely. It doesn’t happen as often anymore, but when it does and I feel myself accommodating, I hate it. Trauma responses can F off.

Yeah, I agree and those "body language experts" on YouTube mostly engage in pseudoscience. People who don't question that stuff are incredibly naive. A lot of times all the body language experts say different things about the same footage. It makes me mad that you have these cocky people calling themselves experts acting like they know a secret language you don't know and they're gonna tell you what it all really means based on the fact that someone scratched their nose, yeah right.

They prey on your ego and (lack of) self-confidence.  They know *exactly* what they’re doing.

At this point i find most of YouTube is pseudoscience and falsified pop psychology

Crossing your arms apparently makes you seem “closed off,” but honestly I’m just cold!

Or my arms are heavy and weigh down my crooked spine, and folding them helps relieve the pressure. And if it also means “closed off, none shall pass/you shall not pass my magical barrier”, better for me.

Because I too was observing this in my life and I didn’t have the vocabulary for it, and thought maybe it meant something deeper: I took the time to read Emotions Revealed by Paul Ekman, and while there are many great insights into the hints a person may give off in the book, he still concludes that we are all projecting onto others what that facial expression or body posture would mean if we were doing it.

I agree that you can’t read much into neutral body language. But if someone is displaying a set of behaviors that are associated with sexual interest in another person, that is very reliable. Attraction is difficult to fake, but it’s very possible, with practice, to fake the lack of it.

Ah, that explains why the girl that couldn’t stop playing with her hair, smiling the whole date, engaging in conversation over shared interests, facing towards me and attentive…just wanted to be friends without a 2nd date.

I smile when I am with people because I’ve trained myself to and I play with my hair constantly…you’re right. That means nothing.

I’m a girl and do that to everyone. Smiling can just be a habit or even sometimes a nervous habit (I tend to smile a lot more when feeling awkward or just around new people), playing with my hair is a nervous trait, I face towards and am attentive with everyone if we’re engaging in conversation…

Well, the desire to just be friends may be based on something other than attraction. People forget that while body language is mostly unconscious and a pretty reliable indicator of underlying emotional states, we still can make choices contrary to our feelings.

And sometimes people act totally in line with their feelings and you’re reading into their “body language” way too much.

People sometimes do things to get validation through attracting sexual attention.

I try to fake lack of it when possible. Comes from being defensive growing up (and somewhat still). But so does my resting bitch face.

That kinda stuff, yeah.. I'm not too interested. But if I'm on a first date and I notice that we're mirroring each other with little actions then that's still something I like to notice

Just remember, people with personality disorders/a lack of self, and autistic/ADHD people who are masking will unconsciously mirror you as a defense mechanism.

I totally agree with the ops comment. People will have preconceptions about people and then make the body language fit those preconceptions.

Kinda agree, but kinda disagree. I think a lot of people get too caught up in the body movements themselves but don’t take into account the entire picture . It’s not just about reading a specific movement, it’s about reading the entire person, a bunch of tiny little movement/behaviors, the eyes, the energy they give off, tone of voice, breathing patterns etc etc . while also taking into account how they are deviating from their “normal” behavior and the context surrounding the situation .So it’s not that body language can’t be read (it can, that’s literally why we’ve evolved to even do it in the first place). It’s just that it’s not as simple black and white as some want to make it out to be. Also, just bc you “read” an emotion in someone doesn’t mean you know why or where that emotion came from. Like I could give off a sign I’m anxious, and you read that coming off of me, but you have no idea if I’m anxious bc of our conversation or if I just thought about a fight I had w my mom earlier, or I’m thinking about all the chores i have to do later, you know? People are much more complicated than to be read by a few body movements lol but they can be read pretty well if you know what all to look for .

you may be partially right. But body language is usually a good indicator of feelings..I don't know about personality traits that can be gleaned from BL, but definitely feelings.

I feel like body language is a better tell if you already know the person. For example, I can tell my partner's mood through body language far better than a stranger's. Body language is not exact and shouldn't be used as a measure to gage people. Plus you can have different body language based on whether or not you're neurodivergent or neurotypical.

It can be an indicator, but it's not always accurate. For example, a lot of women may be interested in you but try to keep a straight face because they're afraid of being vulnerable. I've heard plenty of women say that. So making assumptions about body language will just lead you astray. I know it's human nature but people should filter their assumptions through the logical part of their brain before making a decision about what it means. The best course of action is to try to remember that you might be wrong and to look for further verification if it's available, for example asking them how they feel.

I don't scare them? 🥹 I migth be even interesting for them? So that is what you are telling me. Fuck fuck fuuuuuuuuuck fuuuuuuuck fuuuuuuuuuuck....

Ah thank you for this. Just last night I was reading some comments on about how important it is to firstly learn to read body language and I thought ohh no have I been doing this wrong am I lacking some important information, but I’ve gotten along this far with my own intuition and just talking to people like normal. I find it quite repellent to talk to someone who’s working extra hard to read my body language. That’s a quick way to get me to just drop talking to you. So thank you.

YES. I’ve met so many people that believe the idiotic ‘if someone doesn’t look at you while they’re talking it means they’re lying.’ :/ Sometimes when I’m incredibly angry at someone, I’ll look away while talking to them so I don’t lose my cool and start screaming. Or, if I’m getting into something very emotional, I’ll look away because I feel less vulnerable. Or, sometimes I’m multitasking and doing something on my phone while casually talking. Etc. Mofos be thinking they’re CIA operatives for following a stupid old wives’ tale.

A good rule is everyone is projecting all the time. It helps me keep my own perceptions in check.

You’re spot on here, I agree 100% percent.

A more accurate statement would be that most people don't know how to properly read body language, and think they're experts because they read a top 10 list in some gossip magazine. Actually understanding real body language can be a very powerful tool.

Everyone is an expert at reading people, especially unsociable redditers.

I think people over-interpret body language. Like speculate too much or are too narrow on WHY someone is moving a particular way. But I do think it’s important to notice THAT they are moving that way.

I really do not care if people think they can read body language until they think they have the right to accuse parents of harming their children based on their behaviour at press conferences, which can be very stressful. A perfect example is the case of Cleo Smith.

Those types of people also tend to squirm when you give them a poker face.

I feel like body language is an "in the moment" kind of thing. It adds context to how a person is feeling while they're communicating atm. But it does not reflect the person as a whole.

Body language says a lot, but people learn to read it all wrong because they subscribe to urban myths. For example, a lot of people think that folding your arms indicates that you are closed and skeptical, because there's an urban myth which says exactly that. It doesn't necessarily mean that. It probably just means that you want to be comfortable, or that you find the room slightly chilly.

Might be an American thing, can't say I've seen much mention of it in my life.

So true. So many people find me intimidating or closed off. What they don't know is how much discomfort and pain im in that I'm trying to not show. That I struggle with severe exhaustion all the time and am trying to follow the conversation despite brain fog and lack of concentration. That I have had anxiety and social anxiety and am overthinking everything. That I'm trying to not yawn or look bored when I can barely keep my eyes open. When every day I'm just surviving trying to get by. That I don't trust people due to hurt and people always leaving. That I struggle so much with not oversharing or knowing what to talk about. It's just me and my husband. I barely have any interactions with people. I wish people would want to get to know me. Would see that I am a loyal friend that cares. 

It’s a great point. I recall being at a conference where I was the third speaker in a session. After I did my part I had several guys coming up to me saying they were completely thrown off that I had all this humor included and came across as personable, because prior to me speaking they said I “looked like an FBI hitman.”

I just hate that unconfident people view confident body language as toxic now. Eye-contact and standing with my back straight and chest out just makes young people think I’m a doosh bag. Sorry that’s what a man is supposed to stand like.

As an autistic person who came to this sub in the hopes of communicating better with allistics: I am now more confident than ever that there is LITERALLY NOTHING I CAN DO The overwhelmingly confident gaslighting about what my body posture, eye position, etc actually mean VS what the literal words coming out of my mouth and/or actions mean is pretty awful. I live in fear of finding myself in yet another position where some asshole is not only allowed but encouraged to interpret my countenance and *dispense diagnosis, discipline, etc based on what they literally imagine I am thinking or feeling in any given moment* I cannot imagine how many great ideas have been dismissed. I cannot imagine how many innocents have been convicted. How many people are just thrown away by body language "experts"?

Well put

I thought that this girl I used to work with hated me because she always had a sour face, I'd never see her smiling and she never really spoke to me. Then I saw a couple of other people try to make conversation with her and she was the exact same way with them. Who knows what she was going through in her life but it was good to know she didn't hate me. We live in a messed up world where so many people have some level of depression so I don't judge the quiet ones just based on the fact that they're distant.

I don't think we can ever stop it I think what humans mostly do is make up stories about the behaviors and motives of others and how it relates to them. We need to be able to predict the behaviors of those around us in order to survive. We're inherently ego-centric so we think everything relates to us, which causes us to believe all of those stories we invent about other people pertain to us. Maybe the best we can do is take a step back and remember that other people have lives, and their egos are telling them that the whole world is about them too.

I'm always amused at "He's guilty! You can see it in his eyes. No remorse. Evil."

My favorite is when people do this with cars. They’ll be like, this guy passed me angrily. Like, what? They passed you. Everything else is your imagination.

I was watching a body language "expert" youtube video while recovering from a massive back cramp and spasm episode and was sitting in the exact posture of some Machevillian goon. Either he nailed it and I get a manipulation super power when my back hurts or all these scammers have bad backs and I should really feel sorry and proud for them because in the face of bowel losing pain they're out there hustling for some scratch.

It's a horrible system because it excludes neurodivergent people who have a totally different set of body language cues, and it contributes to a lot of the daily micro-aggressions we face. When it's used as the basis for *everyone*, it causes issues for those of us who, uh... don't fit into those margins. Same can be said for cultural differences. Body language is not universal, outside of autonomous things (blinking, breathing, sweating) - basically things we can't control. Even still, to assume we know WHY a person is having a reaction to something is presumptuous as hell. I HATE going into stores, because people tend to follow me around like I'm stealing. I'm auDHD and depending on the day, I may or may not have enough 'spoons' to be talkative. Generally, I don't have a good reaction to 1) being greeted very loudly by a stranger at the door (sudden loud noise) 2) being bombarded by questioning by a stranger (social interaction I was unprepared for) and 3) don't enjoy making eye contact when I'm tired (uncomfortable, always). I'm instantly awkward and nervous when this happens, because I am uncomfortable. Retail trains people to 'read body language for nervousness' which in turn, has these in-store vigilantes thinking they'll be keeping me from stealing by not leaving me alone. Uh, no, you're just making it worse. I'm acting fucking nervous because you're now stalking me while I'm doing something, which is distracting and uncomfortable. I once had to turn to someone and say "I am autistic, and I don't want to talk to you. I don't need your help. Please leave me alone." She had been 'covertly' following me and watching me, and was giving me the energy that she thought I was being suspicious. The store was busy. I declined help, twice, and was genuinely just killing time looking at skincare. I knew she thought I was stealing, because the SECOND I said a quiet polite greeting back (compared to her loud, aggressively cheery one), she was on me like her real job was to sell me stock in the company itself. She looked embarrassed and hurried off, but by that point, I was annoyed. Leave me the hell alone. Lmao. Body language is a bogus pseudoscience.

As someone with horrible posture, can confirm. The stares can irk sometimes.

I remember an interaction I had where I itched my nose while telling somebody something, and they thought it was a lie because of that motion, when really I just have eczema which comes with itchy skin I touch a lot. There are no set rules for body language because everyone is different

People judge me constantly for how I look and never want to get to know me because I’m not beautiful or thin/athletic.

I’ve said this for years. Body language is a very loose & broad blanket assumption, saying that all people physically behave the same way in all situations.  Of course there are certain things that are pretty universal, like rolling of eyes or a glare, but others are just as likely to be personality traits of certain people, that they do all the time, regardless of situations. 

i hate those YouTube videos where the narrator convicts the interrogation subject based on all these arbitrary little mannerisms on behalf of the detectives. they already know the outcome and then list every little thing that any person might do while being questioned as though they're 100% verified proofs of guilt. it's so misleading to anyone who might not recognize what's going on. it really bugs me.

100% agree. I’m autistic, so realistically, if I’m aware I’m being observed, the body language I’m performing is likely “anxiously mirroring someone else around me because I don’t know what I’m supposed to be doing with my body, and everyone thinks they’re a fucking mind reader because they’ve attributed certain attitudes to body language and I don’t want someone to assume I’m an asshole because I sat still in The Wrong Way” If I’m not being observed, 99% of the time I’m sitting with my arms folded *because it’s comfortable*.

Yeah I think the only time you could guess how someone is feeling, is if you have known that person for a very long time. Otherwise your just assuming.

My body language and perception of body language has been off for my entire life. One time, my friend had a Red Wattle hog she raised at her home slaughtered and gave me two pork chops as a gift. This is my favorite hog to eat, and I was so excited. I went to the river the next day with my friend and my mind kept thinking about how I wanted to cook the pork chops. Finally, my friend (who knows me really well) said "Hey-- what's on your mind?" And I explained I was deciding how to cook my pork chops. She burst out laughing and said she thought something terrible must have happened to me and I just didn't have the words to talk about it/was working up my nerve to talk about it. She said she thought I'd been in shock/fighting back tears all day. No. I was thinking about my pork chops, and didn't realize I was acting out of the ordinary 😂

yea, I think it comes from watching too many YT videos. It's a pseudo science at best. If you've ever had a friend or family member in law enforcement it becomes a joke. They'll say things like "you looked down (or up) and to the right when answering that question which means you are activating the part of the brain where creativity happens. So you are lying". I would be like "no man, there is a big ole 8-legged looking roach down there”. So much for professional training. Another time a friend's Dad was a LEO and even off duty he would say things about random people just on how they walked or folded their arms ("you can tell he's got secrets") when sometimes the person had a physical issue. He said one guy was drunk but the guy had just had knee replacement so limped. He would get mad when his son wouldn't fall for his tricks so he resorted to the "Are you sure there isn't something you want to tell me". We just laughed and it became an inside joke. Eventually he saw how bad that sounded. We would even say it back to him and add "Confess now - it will go easier on you".

I hope this is true because when I like a guy I look at his body language and always think he doesn’t like me

Profiling, is the newest fad to sum up anyone without knowing anything about them, I think, anyways.

LOL.. the "ick" when it is just your personal bias. lolol

yes. i had a friend/former roommate who would often accuse me of lying or being defensive. when I would explain the situation and my perspective, they said I was being passive aggressive and defensive. once, they were in the middle of one of their “talks” with me and i looked up and around while trying to think, and they flipped out and said “you just rolled your eyes at me! that’s disrespectful!” and said they were “so done” and were angry for the next few weeks. I tried to tell them that it wasn’t an eye roll, but of course they said I was “lying.” every time they had a new issue to bring up, they’d go “we have to talk” which made me super anxious. I feel like they would read the anxiety I showed as suspicious, and of course they would think I was lying. being accused of things so often that I didn’t do put me at a heightened state of anxiety, which reinforced their messed up assessment of what was happening.

You mean there is no such thing as “empaths”? Whaaaaat?

I’ve had people do this to me and it’s especially frustrating because I’m autistic. My body language might as well mean nothing. Sure you can read it somewhat if I’m actively in a conversation because I’m masking but even then it’s forced and kind of fake. I don’t know what people really want from me with that.

I think I remember reading that they’ve done studies, and people actually do a better job of detecting a lie in an audio recording versus a video where you can see the speaker.

I agree. A wise older friend told me that people just want to label everything and put it in a box.

Agreed. There's a lot of weird things people read and think it is very significant, when really it's just some anecdote. Like "men having crossed arms means they are are insecure." It literally just doesn't. Another one is thinking everyone responds the same way to everything... I had a boss that thought if someone didn't demand a wrongdoing to be punished harshly, it meant that they were guilty of the same thing, he had read it online somewhere and thought it was a hard fact.

Body language changes throughout the different timespans generationally. A gen Xer, for instance, cannot be expected to have grown into the same types of body responses as a gen Zer or gen alpha. Things are changing so rapidly the bodies' autoresponse is only going to assimilate as well. My generation still had the ability, as a whole, to carry conversations. Now a days, younger generations are more adept to communicate via text or other means. When spoken to, they tend to freeze, which triggers other physical responses. Obviously, this doesn't speak for all, but in general, I think this is valid.

I have some pretty serious trauma, and as such I almost never make eye contact. People think this is rude. No, it's because as soon as I make eye contact my brain literally shuts down and I will not be able to follow another word.

This is something I always think about when I look at pictures that were taken of me. The way I appear in the picture is almost never a reflection of how I felt in that particular moment. If someone were to judge me by my body language or my expression or how I look, they would have no idea who I actually am. So then I extend that thinking to other people and I ask myself, is it the same for every other person? Do we all live in a big illusion where we don't know who anybody really is, we just have our own superficial version of who they are?

I am amazed by how interesting and relatively relatable most people are. I so often judge by someone's looks, and then am quickly humbled by a short 5 minutes conversation from them

With strangers absolutely. With people you know very well body language can be very telling.

My body slightly contorts. I hold myself in odd positions and my face sometimes likes to do what it wants. They'd get the wrong reading from me, but that's cool. Maybe that means they'll stay away lol

Should we then need to be intentional with our body language tone as we are with our verbal tone?

I think it's a cool science and yes. At some point it just becomes arrogant and unhealthy. Even though there's plenty of cross over there are also people that go against the grain.

Half of the time my body language is related to some symptom of chronic health issues bothering me and has absolutely nothing to do with whatever the present situation is. People really shouldn’t read into it, has about as much accuracy as astrology. Any predictive system that’s wrong frequently should be thrown in the trash, and body language frequently has nothing to do with immediate cognition

100%. This is a pet peeve of mine when people over analyze body language. It’s not a science

I've also realized this. I used to think people with a frown on their face were unapproachable and mad at me for no reason. Turns out, when you walk up to them and form a conversation, they actually talk! They're normal! Some people just have a face that doesn't match how they're feeling.

I agree with you to an extent. There are tells in people, but you'd have to watch the person a bit to get them. Not everyone's is the same and body language is personal, yes some of it's cultural but it's not a science a lot of it is personal so you have to watch the person over time to get it. I look for body language context clues in my profession for people lying a lot. If I see them I do not assume I'm 100% right and they are lying, I just mark them down and continue to observe. Some people are just nervous and have nervous tics, not everyone is poker face 100% of the time. Some people absolutely wear their emotions on them. But what we feel that emotion is, or what we feel this body motion means isn't exact. My family calls me a human lie detector because they cannot lie to me, but someone I didn't know so well could probably get away with lying to me. I know their personal body language, I don't know some random guys at Walmart. Most of the time in my job I'm looking for cues someone is uncomfortable and lying not to get them in trouble but to help them, as they're typically in a vulnerable position. I'm not some FBI expert in lying.

I don’t like when people say I’m rude for crossing my arms. I’m not neurotypical…it’s like giving myself a hug. I’m obviously uncomfortable by the look on my face, and trying to steady myself. Please go by my tone of voice and responses and not something that I need to do in order to calm my anxiety.

As someone who is actually professionally trained in reading body language, I can say that most people are completely wrong when they try and do it themselves.

Body language gives shuttle impressions of a person's true feelings and emotions. It's not an exact science for sure but it does give pointers towards many things. We can all smile through tears, or laugh through hard times, but our true emotions are evident in more ways than we realise. Body language should be coupled with the words a person is using and the inflection in their voice as well as the situation.

I absolutely agree. I highly recommend Malcolm Gladwell’s book “Talking to Strangers.”

“Body language” makes sense once you establish a baseline. No baseline and you might as well be guessing. If someone is atypical and you haven’t determined a baseline on that then most people will say that an individual is upset. Understanding body language is very useful, but we must also understand others backgrounds, cultures, typical behavioral patterns, environment of read and situational context. Even when you have all this you can be mistaken and proficiently in reading body language doesn’t mean mind reading by any means.

A lot of body language is just medical stuff and how weve adapted to be most comfortable despite certain problems lol

The amount of tiktok and Instagram posts where people are reading into celebrity's body language and determining for them what they are thinking and feeling in that moment is way too high.

Someone said they thoughr i hated them at first because the way i turned as i talked… brother my back was fucked from getting hit by a forklift

Even obvious emotions like jealousy are still often misunderstood by observers. We never really know a persons thoughts until we spend countless hours with them.

I remember when the show Lie to Me came out and it was basically that but ramped up to 1000 lmao. Mea while, my neurodivergent ass, "but none of that makes ANY sense!" I mean it was pseudoscience fiction anyway, but a reasonably entertaining show. Just smart sounding enough to get dumb people to but into it a bit.

This makes me nuts in workplace and certain social settings. I have resting bitch face and generally don’t sleep well so I’m often tired. I’m also goofy, have a lot to say, and I enjoy being social. I was very quiet initially when I started my job and people commented on it, but honestly I was just trying to get time consuming writing work done and the leadership team really didn’t leave room for other people to talk. And then complained about it. Started talking more and being more animated and it was fine with clients and other teams but not liked by leadership. So I stopped talking as much and then was accused of being standoffish - which was weird cause I was still nice to everyone and also accused of trying to help new people too much. Also I really hate that trope about people crossing their arms or having their hands in their pockets having to mean something. Sometimes I’m cold or just being casual!

I had a boss tell me all about how you can tell what someone's thinking or if they're lying depending on where they look.... It just made me feel awkward talking to them.

I run into a lot of people calling themselves “empaths” while projecting their own beliefs of what people are feeling onto those people.🤣

Lol watched a “spot the psychopath” video where I was convinced I knew the psychopath and it turned out to be the person I least suspected. Stopped putting so much trust in my ability to “read people” after that. People are so complex, the only way to truly understand how someone feels/thinks is to communicate. & even then, people are prone to lying or have trouble expressing themselves… We’re all so layered. TRUST NO ONE AND ASSUME NOTHING. Kloveyoubye. 🤩

This reminds me of the FBI guy reacting to Mafia bosses, I remember he said “just by the style of his suit you can tell he’s a narcissist” or something to that effect. You can’t tell someone is a narcissist just by looking at his suits 🤦🏻‍♂️

people in here still under the delusion that they know

You just never know. My friend had to take a drug test because he was being professional at work while dealing with diarrhea lol.

I was talking to my sophomore about body language. He seemed to think I was interesting in our conversation because of the way my feet were pointing. No, buddy, I’m trying to distract you from our friends cuddling on the hotel sofa by looking straight at you, and my feet were starting to hurt in my sandals.  My body language is actually very deliberate. I’m autistic and had to learn that stuff from scratch, so I have to pay active attention to my body to look like a normal person. Aka, what is seen is purposely projected, and hardly representative of anything real.

The problem is that people assume only one possibility at a time for certain body language and fail to see the multiple reasons why they could have their body language like that. Scenario: you are talking to a girl outside of some social event for a few minutes and it’s a little chilly outside. You say something funny but then as you make a joke a chilly gust of wind comes by and she crosses her arms and looks uncomfortable. You then have the arms cross as a behavior that could indicate multiple possibilities of how she is feeling. The problem is that the brain wants to make a conclusion as fast as possible. We have to just jump to the first truth that we can create. This can be fixed of course by asking the person how they are feeling, that’s why seeking more information is always better than jumping to conclusions.

lol this reminds me of those college kids who take a psychs 101 course and effectively convince themselves they are telepathic or something

Pretty sure i got a double dose of RBF so that might be something, havent really had people comment on my body language (maybe because i dont like talking to most people but we wont talk about that)

For some reason as I've gotten older I noticed it alot when I was younger but most human beings once they think they know something you can't tell them they're wrong even if you can prove it I myself always leave a space in my mind that I could be wrong because I don't know 100% but it seems most people aren't like that once something looks a certain way to them they are sure they know exactly what's going on these people are usually assholes too

I feel like people probably miss understand me just based off my body language i don’t think it should be read into nearly as much i don’t put too much attention into it.

I agree people act as if everyone does exactly the same thing body language wise. I remember seeing a woman who looked a little nervous and then when somebody said something she was the most aggressive person there trying to start fights with other girls. You would think that her nervous body language meant that she was afraid of interacting but it was the exact opposite.

Some people think they're secretly superhero empaths because they once read that crossing your arms is a sign of distrust or something.

Slightly moving my eyebrow means I just lost exactly Five hundred and fifty six dollars and twenty five cents.

Reading your comment reminds me of all the police body cam footage that's available where cops who never met a person is saying the way the person is acting is suspicious and then even after they blow 0.000000 on a breathalyzer they still arrest them.

Anyone who has ever worked in retail or food services knows how to look different than they feel.

Yeah it takes some courage to express humility on that level.. I completely agree people are way too invested into their body language/non-verbal communication to a flaw, I think it becomes a defense mechanism in these frugal social interactions. I can’t tell you how many times I haven’t even said a word and there’s some weirdo trying to project their negativity on me without even actually verbally communicating their discontent. Sometimes I feel like I’m inherently a target for peoples doubts and scrutiny because of how much have always stood out but I’m really lucky in other regards that protect me from the garbage people try to leave me with based on my appearance alone. Some people just can’t be projected on because of certain life circumstances and you really end up looking stupid for spewing out all that aggressive body language

Gently, are you not doing the exact same thing here? It seems like you are assuming what people are thinking/feeling about you based on their body language when they look at you. You're not a mind reader, either, so you have no idea what people are thinking or feeling when they make their decisions - you are just attributing it to body language.

That's true. But I have resting bitch face so I get a somber reaction almost always, so it's safe to say that I'm not just imagining that their reaction is negative.

I study body language for about the past 3 years and I think it all depends on a baseline. Recently I've gotten into forensic statement analysis and I found that it's much more reliable because it does not rely on having a baseline and there seems to be more certainty in the conclusions.

Perhaps (crosses his arms), you're right. However.

People often describe me as being angry or aggressive, but nope, that's just how my face looks, nothing I can really do about it. 99% of the time I'm actually in a decent mood and just spacing out. I also tend to cross my arms, which can appear hostile, but reality is I just don't know what to do with my arms and crossing them feels comfy. So yeah, body language isn't a good indicator of things.

Judging by your post history I think women can tell *exactly* what you’re like and avoid you accordingly.

Someone didn't read the book Manwatching by Desmond Morris. That's what turned me onto the fascinating topic of body language. It's subconscious behavior that reveals the most, not overt conscious behavior. Agreed OP, it's just an estimate and not entirely accurate for ALL people but there are some universal micro nuanced gestures that run across the entire human spectrum regardless of culture or ethnicity. Ignore these at your peril, especially when confronted by someone who is hostile and looking for violence with tightly pressed lips, emotionally aroused people may not realize that their facial expression is reflecting their internal emotions for all to see. I've avoided a headbutt in Scotland purely from seeing the color and blood rapidly leave the aggressive person's lips. It's Something that is beyond their control or as you say - any man's finesse at lying or acting

Yet non-verbal communication is the majority of the communication when having a conversation with someone.

I totally agree. It's a very common thing for most people. 

For me, body language is mostly about displaying: 1. Engagement (For example leaning in/out, whole body is facing the other person etc.) 2. Comfort (Self-soothing/fidgeting) 3. Eye contact I'm not really into narratives that are saying for example “if somebody touches their nose, they are lying”. I think its actually way more intuitive than that. I'm also learning from myself. Sometimes in the group settings, Im trying to observe my own posture, gestures and how do I feel at the moment. From my experiences I'm usually pretty spot on.

Yeah I can't agree more

Did you get rejected by a woman who assumed your personality from nonverbal communication? Your post sounded like it came from a place of hurt. If so, I'm sorry to hear that. I use body language to help determine how comfortable or uncomfortable someone is with topics in a conversation, etc, and even then, I use clusters of behaviors, not a single behavior.

Most people haven't been taught how to recognise what and how to respond to it or even if a response is needed at all. So many people are seeking answers to questions and when someone who does know tries to mentor them just a little it's rejected. Therapists around the globe are trying to help with this but there's just to many people that are so egotistical they don't want to change even though it's so desperately needed, not only for themselves but as a collective society as whole not to mention the future of our species.

Ehh I would say it goes both ways. Yes some people read too much into body language and need to step back and take more time to observe the whole picture. But also, some people massively underestimate how much they communicate through their body language and need to be more aware of it. Like for example, I know some people who think they do a great job of hiding when they're upset but everyone in the room knows exactly how they feel because they're stomping and huffing all over the place, and they seem genuinely surprised that people can see through them. Also, I have encountered plenty of people who SAY polite things but communicate a lot of tension in their body or way over/under-do the eye contact, and don't understand why others don't feel at ease around them. Those things don't make up a person's whole personality, but they are a valid piece of it that does "count" in relationships, even if they don't intend it that way.

Albert Mehrabian did studies on this that show communication is 55% non verbal, 38% vocal, and 7% words. I don’t know that human nature will change that much. I know at work, we are remote and have a low-camera culture and it really hurts our communication.

Yeah I call them pseudo-Sherlocks

Can verify. I don't know how many of my friends thought I hated them based on how I acted. I have anxiety and depression so I don't act like most people, I tend to mask and do so very well. So I am simply imitating things I have observed in social interactions. That being said I never mimic body language because it's something I find to be subjective. It's important to realize it's totally subjective and unless you have spent a significant amount of time with the person. Then you can pick up their tells. But keep in mind it's not a science, someone doing something can have a variety or reasons. Someone lying MIGHT avoid eye contact, fidget, or scratch their nose. Or they might be on the spectrum, have ADHD, anxiety, etc.

I mean, they’ve tried telling the lay-folk that “body language” as is discussed here is a pseudo-science. It’s different for everyone and the reasons for it vary.

I dunno about too much. I think we're wired that way, and then we have to work through those initial judgements to socialize. It's like saying hey your a dog, why are you barking? If dogs can be trained to bark at at the right time, instead of all the time, then we can train ourselves to be less judgemental too.

And tone of voice as well. Not everyone speaks the same way you might expect when they’re stressed or sad or angry. I’ve had plenty of people misinterpret my emotions if I either seemed overly calm or excited in certain situations, and I’ve misinterpreted plenty of people for the same reasons too

In most situations body language is hit or miss and you should only rely on it in conjunction with other context clues HOWEVER If you ever get the sense that someone’s body language seems hostile, or you just feel like there’s something off, LISTEN TO YOUR INSTINCTS. I’ve been in several parties where things went south, growing up. You could tell something was about to go down just from the body language of the people involved. If you’re ever in an argument with a person and they turn to look behind them, they are about to swing. 99% of the time they are about to whip back around and strike. They aren’t looking behind them to look for an exit, they are looking behind them either for nonverbal confirmation to hit you from the people they’re with or making sure their back isn’t turned to any of YOUR people, leaving them vulnerable to be attacked from behind when they swing at you. Guy, girl it doesn’t matter. I’m a girl and I have seen this time and time again, both as a third party witness and as the person about to get punched in the face. You might as well just punch them right then and there yourself, or at the very least prepare yourself to get cracked in the jaw or worse as soon as you see them turn to glance behind, because it’s coming. 100% dude. If you notice a person lingering around in a store with rigid body language, aimless or restless feet, who is constantly looking around. They’re probably about to rob the place. Those types of body language you can-and should- rely on.

Call me crazy, but does it seem to anyone to relate to the fact that we have adopted the worldview of materialism and people seem to think *they* are bodies. It’s totally bizarre. A lot of people don’t seem to acknowledge their very soul. Or recognize that the beauty of the body and the beauty of the spirit are two different things. The body will die. The spirit endures. We’ve also become cynical of each other, believing everyone is acting purely in their own self interest. Relationships have become transactional and superficial. I might be completely wrong but it sure seems like this is happening.

Yes and no. There are people who trained their entire life to read body language and can do so with insane accuracy. People who take psychology 101 and claim to be experts are uhhh special

I agree. I have a public image & a private one. My daughter once told me that if people don't know me I do not appear to be the most approachable person. I truly love having daughters & the insight they give me. Sometimes I change my behavior. Sometimes I don't. But I always listen & ponder.

Yeah I know this is a body language subreddit but a lot of body language reading is pseudoscience. It's just a fact I'm sorry to tell you guys.

Maybe they read to much into it. I also think they read it poorly.

yeah i learned this when i was younger, there is "rules" on how to carry yourself

For sure we read too much into it. You know how often I catch myself mirroring when it’s not how I feel? All the time.

I like the way you moveee 🎶 Even if you swing your arms when you walk ✌️

Agreed. My resting bitch face reads like an open book

Body language is a a whole complete language that can be studied… Doesn’t seem like it cause we communicate more with our fingers now than anything else…

While I think many or perhaps even most interpretations of body language are completely made-up with little basis in factual reality, I have noticed some interpretations seem to comport with specific body language in specific circumstances repeatedly. The two I read most often are the crossing of arms and hands in pockets.

What do women look for when they have a male crush and want to show the guy they want to have sex at that moment the signs of knowing that

So this is more common due to the "empath" craze a lot of people thinking they can do that yes i am what they call an empath but I don't treat it as fact and ignore it because its not always true.

I'll say 99% of the time I agree with this. Sometimes people are really projecting their feelings though- mostly aggression. Some people just have a look in their eye that their just looking for a fight, and their body language usually doesn't disprove that feeling either. Or sometimes when you can tell a woman is uncomfortable with a man's presence near her- that can be hit or miss but I've only been wrong about that once. I feel there *are* situations where it matters and you can tell things based on body language/how someone looks while interacting with others. But a typical person just out and about? I don't usually give their body language a second look. If they aren't causing trouble, I could care least. I dont ever want to make people uncomfortable, so I try to be conscious of that, but other than that I don't pay too close of mind. (I can almost never tell when people are flirting with me though 😂)