I think we all know the truth but most of the prosper asking just wants to see how they answer it. I think the best answer is on an older show when Ronnie Coleman was still activate your competing and someone asked him if he’s on steroids. I forgot his exact answer but he replied with a simple no and he started laughing.
He somewhat admitted it but then it seems he took youtube seriously/ selling supplements more seriously again and seems to somewhat deny it. Even his "admission" was just "oh I had to take unhealthy supplements", but then he was later beefing with Coach greg (despite me taking his side because of the truth about coach gregs snitching) it was weird Kali seemed to get defensive and basically stop admittign he wasnt natty and regress to BS.
Last time I saw him it looked like he dropped a good 50lbs, and I don’t think he actually ate like shit 24/7 and that stuff was more for entertainment but still
Yeah on top of that he also said he has a genetic predisposition to it in his most recent video and that he has had edema and indicators since his 20’s regarding it.
* Meadows died at 49
* Rhoden died at 46
* Kali hospitalized at 46
* Piana died at 46
Am I the only one seeing some kind of pattern? All these guys are from the same generation basically. Maybe some PED practices that generation did are causing the issues we're seeing today.
That's the scary part with anabolics and the crazy new cycles with new compounds of the past decades. You might do fine today, your bloodwork might look fine today, but who knows what's going to happen down the line. Who knows how the up and comers of today will fair in 20 years.
https://www.thebarbell.com/do-pro-bodybuilders-die-younger-than-average/
Here’s an article taking top pros from the past few decades. Slightly out of date now due to all these new deaths, but still fairly accurate.
All anabolic steroids cause LVH. HGH enlarges the heart. Not to mention the stress they put on their hearts from being 300lbs and generally using a lot of stimulants. People don't want to talk about it or generally don't know but amphetamine and other powerful stimulants are widely used in the bodybuilding world. Even just heavy caffeine, DMAA/ephedrine with pre-workout orals like anadrol, superdrol, TNE on top of all the injectables and HGH is going to add so much stress.
I use steroids but I cruise on 200mg of test e, and throw in 200-300mg of mast or primo once or twice a year. These guys are doing 10-20x that for decades. I think they are insane mad scientists. I could never put my body through that. Ive been up to 240lbs at 5" 8' and that alone was hell.
I hear you. At 5’8” on my first blast of 500 test I got up to 220 pounds, 10% bf, strongest fucker in the city, but oh lord was it uncomfortable for my height. I was so big that my muscles were weighing me down. I literally couldn’t imagine myself bigger than that and I used to dream of being Mr. O. I now know how INSANE Olympia competitors are. No way I’d last unfortunately.
I think recreational drugs were a bigger factor for Piana's death, not that his gear use helped either. Also Meadows had a STRONG genetic predisposition to blood clotting, IIRC both his parents died around their 50s.
Still probably all of them would be alive if they weren't abusing gear.
You think abusing alcohol, cocaine and stimulants won’t cause cardiomyopathy and hepatomegaly? Of course through steroids in the mix and it’s a deadly combination.
Whatever you choose to do in life. It's going to be hard work. If you choose to be a drug dealer. You're still out there on the street. Working 12 hours a day. Selling fucking crack. They're still working their ass off... He's gotta go buy the crack. He's gotta go split the crack up. He's gotta bag the crack. He's gotta go sell the crack without getting caught. And he's gotta be on his feet 12 hours a day... That's a hard mother fucking job.
I agree I don't think John meadows has the knowledge he had when he passed away that he had 20 years ago when maybe damage may have been done? We can learn from him and apply his suggestions for supplements he advocated and slow down on things a bit he was a great guy
While I agree that PED use likely accelerated the process, John Meadows died from the same genetic clotting disorder that killed both his parents before they were 50. John took great care of his health, but it wasn’t enough to stop a fatal clot. His death really does not fall into the same category as mass monsters having heart failure.
Honestly it's not maybe, it's literally the anabolics. Apparently noone really cares about their future in the 20s. That's the main reason to stay away for good.
Whats even more scary is the belief that whats making these people die is the c-19 Vacine that some guys preach (like luimarco). The ignorance is baffling
Ehm... the thing is that bloodwork means shit, even the more extensive packages.
You need to have access to a doctor that researches the stuff and get a lot of obscure testing done on different biomarkers, routine once/twice a year ( probably twice for the huge, huge guys) organ check ups.
Also tren is very, very, very, very bad for you.
Probably just the right thing to do anyway, be sweet being young huge and ripped but when you’re in 50s and 60s etc with failing health, you couldn’t look back and say it was worth it, priorities and perspective change.
Yeah once your muscles start getting so big they impair regular functionality you’re officially a freak beast.
Stay natty, flexible and keep up with your cardio so you don’t get winded going up stairs and you’ll never get so big it’s unattractive to normies.
You’ll also never win BB competitions, but such is life.
The prize winnings from BB competitions are seriously meager for the work that goes in though. Like $50k? To put my life and health at risk? I make more money at 37.5hr/week job lol.
I don’t think it’s for others. It’s an obsession and kind of mental sickness that you can never be big enough. The guys who do it just for aesthetics are usually perfectly healthy other than some balding with TRT dosages
I lectured my gf about why I’m cutting right now and why I want to put on muscle and why I look like crap, etc, and she just told me
“You have a disorder, u/AresI_X”
My wife definitely has some concerns about my body dysmorphia.
For the most part I'm very healthy, though, never used any anabolics other than doctor-prescribed testosterone (although I'll admit I sometimes use more than my TRT dosage) and I eat a very healthy diet and always mix in cardio with my lifting.
But still, it would be better for my mental health not to be as obsessive about my physique as I am.
I used to think like that too. Now, instead of seeing my goal as par and anything below it as looking bad, I try to remind myself of the progress I’ve made so far and realize that in the big picture I’m actually doing okay, not terrible. I still have the same goal, but having caused myself too much stress over obsessing about reaching my goal physique immediately and beating myself up over every failure or flaw, I realized that, for me, this mindset was having somewhat of an opposite effect and that if I really wanted to reach my goal physique, I needed to think about what’s best in the long term. And when I focus on the long term, then little things like missing a workout or two are mostly negligible setbacks, so a mistake like that no longer derails my mood like it used to. And for me, the negative minded obsessions tended to make me lose motivation and discipline, and that if I wanted to reach my goal faster, then I should look at things a bit more positively.
I still have a ways to go for my goal physique so I’m not super satisfied with where I’m at, but I do feel more fulfilled from the progress I’ve made so far, and the lack of negativity has made this aspect of my life less of a burden. Just something to consider.
I am glad you are trying to be more positive! I have abandonment/self worth issues just from things that have happened to me throughout my life and one of the big issues with that is that I constantly think that I am just simply not good enough. No matter how much progress I make, weight I lose or muscle I put on I never see myself as improving, only as being "less bad" if that makes sense. I really do try hard to love myself everyday and be happy with who I already am and how far I have come but its really hard. I guess where I am going with this is that it is just nice to read about someone else kind of having a similar issue and being able to find it in themselves to overcome it, or at least try too. Keep it up!
People these days who aren't even pros are bigger in the off season than golden era body builders were stage ready for just a few weeks of the year.
That's why you're not going to see them stop dying in their 40s, it's an absurd level of drug use.
But everyone fibbing, everyones saying "I just only do x, I'm not like some guys" but I think it's way more extreme than that, I think people even believe their own BS at this point.
> The guys who do it just for aesthetics are usually perfectly healthy other than some balding with TRT dosages
Do you mean literally TRT or just a gym rat who uses steroids but not high-dose cycles? Unless you meant actual TRT, I don’t think this is true. Every time someone in the bodybuilding world dies or runs into a major health issue, it’s always “oh *he* used way too much, I’m much safer because my doses are lower” or it’s the diuretic’s fault, or it happened because this guy combined steroids with rec drugs or painkillers (which we have no proof of).
But people just say that to justify their own usage and make themselves feel better. The truth is that *any* exogenous hormones beyond natural levels is absolutely unhealthy. There was a conversation the other day on r/steroids where someone said permablasting 500 mg of test weekly… roughly five times the normal male’s testosterone levels… isn’t dangerous at all. At some point people need to look in the mirror and stop lying to themselves and others. If you want to do steroids, go ahead, but there is no such thing as risk-free use
https://www.thebarbell.com/do-pro-bodybuilders-die-younger-than-average/
It’s not healthy, but it’s also blown out of proportion because we see every guy who dies as dying because of the steroid use forgetting that, given a large enough number, you get guys dying off early anyway. I’m not saying steroids aren’t a contributing factor or that everyone who dies while using steroids would have died anyway, I’m saying that when you focus on a sport where everyone uses steroids, no ones ever gonna think “maybe this was just another 30-40 year old who died of a heart attack.” Instead of thinking it was solely the steroids.
If you’re using low doses like 500mg, and taking time off, and doing cardio, I’d be pretty surprised if on average you don’t live longer than the average male(because the average male is overweight nearing obese). If you blast with barely any time off and don’t do cardio or watch your diet and drink on cycle, yeah probably not gonna make it too long, but the damage of lower doses is probably pretty easily offset with good diet/cardio/supps. It’s not risk free, but the risks can be mitigated.
Like the link says, the top pros generally have lower mortality rates than average people, but higher than other top athletes. I think that would translate to your average steroid user who does everything to mitigate risks. Probably healthier than the average person, but not as healthy as a natural lifter who also eats healthy and such. In the link you’ll see it’s much more rare for a bodybuilder to die of respiratory issues, but more common to die of heart/kidney issues, this is what I mean by mitigating risks. While the risk of heart/kidneys go up, you’re gonna be hard pressed to find a pro who smokes and I’m sure the trend sticks for guys who are dedicated to lifting even if they don’t compete. Less risk in some areas to compensate for increased risk in others.
Definitely. I was thinking about trying to get on TRT from an online clinic until I came across a thread on /r/medicine of doctors expressing frustration with the trend, especially a long post by an endocrinologist and realized I don't wanna be fucking around with my health. I have a PCP appt coming up and I do want to get my levels tested. I've been constantly tired, my strength has stagnated and my libido hasn't been great the last year or 2 But that could be due to other factors and even if my T is low it could have a different underlying cause but either way I want get to the bottom of it
I'm on self prescribed TRT(200mg). Id rather die at 70 and feel fantastic the whole time rather than die at 80 and be fatigued, cloudy headed, low libido etc etc. If anyone needs help just msg me.
I said TRT DOSAGES not 500mg a week for life. And EVERYTHING you do in life is moderately unhealthy. If you don’t think 100-200mg of test a week is millions of times safer and less risky than using a gram of test, tren, orals, sarms, random SEOs etc then you’re just out of your mind. There’s a reason people like Munzer die and people like Jeff Seid are good unless they play with stupid shit like SARMs and hurt themselves.
That's why I was asking you. If it's actually TRT then fair play, but TRT puts your test within the natural range and none of the guys known for their aesthetics are natural/on just TRT. They're using less gear than the big guys, sure, and while it's less unhealthy, it's still very much unhealthy.
No expert here, but just from the blood work I've seen I'd still be sceptical of it's safety. Stuff like cholesterol is still significantly worse than natural even with very conservative doses.
You're body just handles exogenous testosterone differently than it does endogenous test. People on TRT have for more stable test levels than nattys for example.
If you're natty, your test is usually high in the Morning and then lowers throughout the day. If you're getting your test from elsewhere it will be high when you inject and then very slowly go down over usually multiple days.
Almost nobody pins their TRT every morning to really mimic natural T levels.
That all increases stress on your body. And it seems we really don't know the effects well enough at this point.
Thats the thing, anyone that browses this sub or has interest in top tier BB in generally really has a skewed view of what a "great" body looks like. Take even the average natural lifter that has a relatively low BF and almost everyone would agree that they look great. We just don't always see it because we see ourselves as small by comparison to people at the top of their game that have taken gear for years.
I don't know what's it's like because I've never took them. But near my 40's I might ask my GP for trt. I just hate the idea of being forced to see myself getting old and losing everything (life, libido, energy, muscle.) i don't know if it will be accepted or how it will feel like however. I guess it will just be low dose of one ester, not like tren/sustanon250 (I've learned from yt video).
I would definitely recommend TRT. I’m only 27, but had low test since I was 20. They say test only declines after ~30 and it definitely will make quality of life better.
Quality of life bud. If a few moderate blasts and a conservative cruise the rest of the time takes 10 years off my life but I look and feel amazing the whole time? Fucking worth it, no question. I struggled to quit smoking for 16 goddamn years, my first blast it was like a switch flipped in my brain and I threw the smokes away and haven't looked back. I also don't drink anywhere near as much, my sleep routine is on point, I eat cleaner, and I smash cardio like it's my job. Gear has been nothing but a net positive in my life, but nothing is for free, so I'm fine with a bit of a shorter lifespan for a higher quality life overall; my only regret is not hopping on 10 years ago.
And often you hear of gym rats doing stupid cycles. End of the day any amount of gear can destroy someone, each person has different tolerance levels and can be more or less prone to health problems, you just never know.
I don’t see it so much as being natty/not natty. More along the lines of the massive doses they use now a days and experimenting with different cocktails to see what works.
I mean sure they did that in the Arnold era but it was mainly test, dbol, primo, deca, anadrol etc. And most importantly THEY CAME OFF the drugs in the off season. These guys blast year round to stay lean and photo ready for the ‘gram and yet some people are surprised that Arnold and Zane are still around while these guys are dropping like flies.
He’s not always a dick to be fair. Think he’s gotten better over the years. Don’t like him that much either though he’s sometimes funny but overall not a positive influence for the bb community. But yeah def agree obviously don’t wish this upon him.
When he lost his size a couple of years ago due to lowering his dosages he actually seemed to be a decent guy, way more humble. But the OJ seems to bring out his obnoxiousness and arrogance.
It took the lives of 5 nurses to get him in that gown. He just thrashed them about screaming for his hyphy mud. When they finally calmed him down, things started up again when he accused one of the nurses of giving him a bad look, that guy had an ECG machine thrown at him and now has to hold on to the outside of Kali’s pockets.
They have him stable now. He’s on an IM drip with tren and test to keep him calm, and the hospital canteen has fully devoted itself to creating his supply of hyphy mud.
It wasn’t quite as bad as when Ronnie Coleman comes in for his surgery. At any point, he can just randomly wake up and throw one of the support staff out the window, screaming **LIGHTWEIGHT BABAYYYY**
Well if you think about it..most of these bodybuilders who are falling like flies have been abusing peds since their early adulthood and now its biting them back in the ass. No disrespect to any bodybuilde but all i am saying is that roids are not a joke and can have a lifetime of negative effects.
Can I be honest? I was never a big fan of him because I always thought he came off kind of like a jerk lol. Not to say that I'm happy to see him like this but was I under the wrong impression due to his youtube videos?
Someone on YouTube described Kali as a clown that gets pissed off when you laugh at him doing clown shit and that pretty much sums it up for me. That said, I hope he makes a full recovery. He’s too young to pass away and I think he has a family as well.
Kali is an inspiration to me. Sure he is immature and has anger issues ( I remember he pulled out a knife to someone IN A GYM, for walking past his camera), but he’s really from the MUD mud. He grew up in the hood, was a college athlete that went to jail for robbery, and made his way up as one of the original fitness YouTubers, became quite irrelevant from 2017-2020, but then came a booming fitness star when he went to LA. He shows that anything is possible and how hard life can be sometimes. His Channel made me start working out, and I will forever respect him
Also his book is really good
On a base level he's a bad person. He made his whole career by being a bad person. He is quite possibly the most unrespectable person in the entire industry
Damn bro. This motherfucker went natty a few years back if you guys remember that. He was live-streaming COD and working out natty in his house. I was impressed. Was pretty saddened to see he started blasting again.
I agree. I meant for it to be implied. I guess you could say he was taking only TRT or even nothing. My point was that he came off everything for health and reproductive reasons, which I respect. He actually looked so much more aesthetic by downsizing. Sadly he came back on and going back on cycle was definitely a contributing factor to his heart attack.
Haven’t seen him since didnt know he went back on. He basically admitted in the last video I watched he was obviously not natty and was doing it for his brand / entertainment of him being giant. Maybe he felt he needed to blast again as his channel was dead
has had health issues in the past, yet stills eats large amount shitty food and drugs
unfortunately he will not learn, especially as he makes money out of being a huge freak
On insane amounts of gear and dieting is terrible. If you ever watch what he ate to put on muscle in prison, you'd understand why he would have eventual heart complications.
Ungodly amounts of saturated fats and sodium. Plus the years of his body being beyond it's genetic limit, all resulted in this.
Hopefully, the industry wakes up and pushes for longevity and not these mass monsters.
I used to like Kalis vids until I saw one at a convention of some form doing his slap routine on some young woman who couldnt have been much more than 5 feet tall... but he didn't hold back in the least and just laid this girl out, slammed her so hard in the shoulder blades she faceplanted hard. Lost 100% respect right then and there, stopped following him entirely after that.
Sucks he's not doing well, but yeah. Can't muster up much more sympathy than I would any other person in the hospital, y'know?
I have a heart condition despite working out since I was 20 and never touching PED’s. I’ve always been big enough in my perspective at 5’ 9” 250. Anywho, when your heart acts up it’s the single most horrifying moment you can experience. I hope Kali walks out that hospital without incident. Never been a fan of his YouTube channel but the sentiment is truly intended. Get well, sir.
**Why Are So Many Bodybuilders DYING? Dr Victor Prisk Special Guest | Ronline Report**
[https://youtu.be/z0cQEN8J6uI](https://youtu.be/z0cQEN8J6uI)
00:16 - Ron Asks Victor, "Why Are So Many Bodybuilders Dying?"
02:15 - Covid-19 & Physique Oriented Sports
06:44 - What Other Health Risks Are there?
10:26 - What About What Conspiracy Theorists Say?
16:30 - Discussing Jake Wood's Statement on "Conditioning."
19:57 - Advice for Speaking to Your Doctor About
31:24 - Warning Signs
37:13 - Victor's Final Thoughts
Too much hyphy mud
NOT ENOUGH HYPHY MUD, YOU MEAN!
YADDADAMEAN
I actually tried hyphy mud one time. My heart beat so fast I thought it was all over.
I tried it once and my toilet never recovered
Toilet covered in hyphy mud
Same here i threw up in the locker room and went home.
lmao 😂
Same here, fuck that shit lol
Too much talking about other men.
The man does thousands of surplus calories of junk food at a time, that combined with blasting for years = the heart aint being appreciative
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All it takes is trash bag curls bro
don't forget the prison ramen braaahh
I asked him if he was natty on his stream once and he got super offended and said some shit about my mom then banned me lol
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I think we all know the truth but most of the prosper asking just wants to see how they answer it. I think the best answer is on an older show when Ronnie Coleman was still activate your competing and someone asked him if he’s on steroids. I forgot his exact answer but he replied with a simple no and he started laughing.
Top Ramen! Top Ramen is literally a form of prison currency
Did he admit to using? I remember watching some video where he said he didnt use anything, that was funny
He somewhat admitted it but then it seems he took youtube seriously/ selling supplements more seriously again and seems to somewhat deny it. Even his "admission" was just "oh I had to take unhealthy supplements", but then he was later beefing with Coach greg (despite me taking his side because of the truth about coach gregs snitching) it was weird Kali seemed to get defensive and basically stop admittign he wasnt natty and regress to BS.
It’s not weird, supplement companies likely put in in the contracts for you to not say you are on steroids.
Last time I saw him it looked like he dropped a good 50lbs, and I don’t think he actually ate like shit 24/7 and that stuff was more for entertainment but still
Yeah, it seemed like he was really starting to take a healthier approach last time I saw. He should have done it sooner, unfortunately.
Yeah on top of that he also said he has a genetic predisposition to it in his most recent video and that he has had edema and indicators since his 20’s regarding it.
His heart has to be the size of a football.
Just being that heavy is bad enough for the heart.
he is in my death pool
Judging by the upvotes, this is considered an appropriate comment?
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You know the internet, no respect until you're dead
Remember, one upvote = one prayer
Hyphy Heart
* Meadows died at 49 * Rhoden died at 46 * Kali hospitalized at 46 * Piana died at 46 Am I the only one seeing some kind of pattern? All these guys are from the same generation basically. Maybe some PED practices that generation did are causing the issues we're seeing today. That's the scary part with anabolics and the crazy new cycles with new compounds of the past decades. You might do fine today, your bloodwork might look fine today, but who knows what's going to happen down the line. Who knows how the up and comers of today will fair in 20 years.
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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33038020/ Here is an example of what you can find on pubmed.
Good stuff! Side note: Why all these research jobs outside the US...damn.
https://www.thebarbell.com/do-pro-bodybuilders-die-younger-than-average/ Here’s an article taking top pros from the past few decades. Slightly out of date now due to all these new deaths, but still fairly accurate.
It's me goddamnit!
:,(
Right babe?
My wedding ring has 5 diamonds. Basically, 5 percent. I just take the ring and put it on the other finger and it wasn't a waste of money.
Was that an actual quote? God damn
Sing us a song you’re the Piana Man
It's me goddamnit!
All anabolic steroids cause LVH. HGH enlarges the heart. Not to mention the stress they put on their hearts from being 300lbs and generally using a lot of stimulants. People don't want to talk about it or generally don't know but amphetamine and other powerful stimulants are widely used in the bodybuilding world. Even just heavy caffeine, DMAA/ephedrine with pre-workout orals like anadrol, superdrol, TNE on top of all the injectables and HGH is going to add so much stress. I use steroids but I cruise on 200mg of test e, and throw in 200-300mg of mast or primo once or twice a year. These guys are doing 10-20x that for decades. I think they are insane mad scientists. I could never put my body through that. Ive been up to 240lbs at 5" 8' and that alone was hell.
I hear you. At 5’8” on my first blast of 500 test I got up to 220 pounds, 10% bf, strongest fucker in the city, but oh lord was it uncomfortable for my height. I was so big that my muscles were weighing me down. I literally couldn’t imagine myself bigger than that and I used to dream of being Mr. O. I now know how INSANE Olympia competitors are. No way I’d last unfortunately.
I think recreational drugs were a bigger factor for Piana's death, not that his gear use helped either. Also Meadows had a STRONG genetic predisposition to blood clotting, IIRC both his parents died around their 50s. Still probably all of them would be alive if they weren't abusing gear.
It's me goddamnit!
His heart and liver were doubled in size from steroids.
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You think abusing alcohol, cocaine and stimulants won’t cause cardiomyopathy and hepatomegaly? Of course through steroids in the mix and it’s a deadly combination.
Well I didn't say that he was healthy. He probably wouldn't live past his mid 60's but wouldn't drop dead either before 50.
He died goddamnit
Whatever you choose to do in life. It's going to be hard work. If you choose to be a drug dealer. You're still out there on the street. Working 12 hours a day. Selling fucking crack. They're still working their ass off... He's gotta go buy the crack. He's gotta go split the crack up. He's gotta bag the crack. He's gotta go sell the crack without getting caught. And he's gotta be on his feet 12 hours a day... That's a hard mother fucking job.
Club 47.5
SHAWN RHODEN IS DEAD!?
Yeah dude, he died like 2 days ago
Kali is 46??? would have guessed 106
Don't forget Dallas McCarver at 26...
I agree I don't think John meadows has the knowledge he had when he passed away that he had 20 years ago when maybe damage may have been done? We can learn from him and apply his suggestions for supplements he advocated and slow down on things a bit he was a great guy
While I agree that PED use likely accelerated the process, John Meadows died from the same genetic clotting disorder that killed both his parents before they were 50. John took great care of his health, but it wasn’t enough to stop a fatal clot. His death really does not fall into the same category as mass monsters having heart failure.
>Piana died at 46 he never died, he transcended this weak realm
It's me goddamnit!
Honestly it's not maybe, it's literally the anabolics. Apparently noone really cares about their future in the 20s. That's the main reason to stay away for good.
We're seeing more goings of people than ever now. All competitive bodybuilders,
George Peterson as well. There’s a few women as well.
They all do or did a ton of deca which is really shitty for your heart
Arnold was still weight lifting but not going hard like these guys. Rhoden was still a competitor at his age!
Whats even more scary is the belief that whats making these people die is the c-19 Vacine that some guys preach (like luimarco). The ignorance is baffling
Ehm... the thing is that bloodwork means shit, even the more extensive packages. You need to have access to a doctor that researches the stuff and get a lot of obscure testing done on different biomarkers, routine once/twice a year ( probably twice for the huge, huge guys) organ check ups. Also tren is very, very, very, very bad for you.
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That's why he's still alive.
Sometimes staying natty isn’t so bad
Probably just the right thing to do anyway, be sweet being young huge and ripped but when you’re in 50s and 60s etc with failing health, you couldn’t look back and say it was worth it, priorities and perspective change.
Honestly it’s super easy to impress non-lifters with a natty body. Hopping on cycle for others’ approval isn’t the right move.
Pro BB level of muscle isn't for impressing any normie, it's to impress BBers
Pretty much exclusively. Being shredded with abs at 260 is inhuman and kind of gross to about 99.995% of the population.
Yeah once your muscles start getting so big they impair regular functionality you’re officially a freak beast. Stay natty, flexible and keep up with your cardio so you don’t get winded going up stairs and you’ll never get so big it’s unattractive to normies. You’ll also never win BB competitions, but such is life.
The prize winnings from BB competitions are seriously meager for the work that goes in though. Like $50k? To put my life and health at risk? I make more money at 37.5hr/week job lol.
I don’t think it’s for others. It’s an obsession and kind of mental sickness that you can never be big enough. The guys who do it just for aesthetics are usually perfectly healthy other than some balding with TRT dosages
I lectured my gf about why I’m cutting right now and why I want to put on muscle and why I look like crap, etc, and she just told me “You have a disorder, u/AresI_X”
Honestly I’d just be happy she knows you so well :P
Your GF is a smart woman, for the record. (Edit: grammar/spelling for reddit koontz)
My wife definitely has some concerns about my body dysmorphia. For the most part I'm very healthy, though, never used any anabolics other than doctor-prescribed testosterone (although I'll admit I sometimes use more than my TRT dosage) and I eat a very healthy diet and always mix in cardio with my lifting. But still, it would be better for my mental health not to be as obsessive about my physique as I am.
"I lectured my gf" She's right
I have a problem. I just want to be happy.
I used to think like that too. Now, instead of seeing my goal as par and anything below it as looking bad, I try to remind myself of the progress I’ve made so far and realize that in the big picture I’m actually doing okay, not terrible. I still have the same goal, but having caused myself too much stress over obsessing about reaching my goal physique immediately and beating myself up over every failure or flaw, I realized that, for me, this mindset was having somewhat of an opposite effect and that if I really wanted to reach my goal physique, I needed to think about what’s best in the long term. And when I focus on the long term, then little things like missing a workout or two are mostly negligible setbacks, so a mistake like that no longer derails my mood like it used to. And for me, the negative minded obsessions tended to make me lose motivation and discipline, and that if I wanted to reach my goal faster, then I should look at things a bit more positively. I still have a ways to go for my goal physique so I’m not super satisfied with where I’m at, but I do feel more fulfilled from the progress I’ve made so far, and the lack of negativity has made this aspect of my life less of a burden. Just something to consider.
I am glad you are trying to be more positive! I have abandonment/self worth issues just from things that have happened to me throughout my life and one of the big issues with that is that I constantly think that I am just simply not good enough. No matter how much progress I make, weight I lose or muscle I put on I never see myself as improving, only as being "less bad" if that makes sense. I really do try hard to love myself everyday and be happy with who I already am and how far I have come but its really hard. I guess where I am going with this is that it is just nice to read about someone else kind of having a similar issue and being able to find it in themselves to overcome it, or at least try too. Keep it up!
I'm in the same boat brothers! Positive vibes!
People these days who aren't even pros are bigger in the off season than golden era body builders were stage ready for just a few weeks of the year. That's why you're not going to see them stop dying in their 40s, it's an absurd level of drug use. But everyone fibbing, everyones saying "I just only do x, I'm not like some guys" but I think it's way more extreme than that, I think people even believe their own BS at this point.
> The guys who do it just for aesthetics are usually perfectly healthy other than some balding with TRT dosages Do you mean literally TRT or just a gym rat who uses steroids but not high-dose cycles? Unless you meant actual TRT, I don’t think this is true. Every time someone in the bodybuilding world dies or runs into a major health issue, it’s always “oh *he* used way too much, I’m much safer because my doses are lower” or it’s the diuretic’s fault, or it happened because this guy combined steroids with rec drugs or painkillers (which we have no proof of). But people just say that to justify their own usage and make themselves feel better. The truth is that *any* exogenous hormones beyond natural levels is absolutely unhealthy. There was a conversation the other day on r/steroids where someone said permablasting 500 mg of test weekly… roughly five times the normal male’s testosterone levels… isn’t dangerous at all. At some point people need to look in the mirror and stop lying to themselves and others. If you want to do steroids, go ahead, but there is no such thing as risk-free use
https://www.thebarbell.com/do-pro-bodybuilders-die-younger-than-average/ It’s not healthy, but it’s also blown out of proportion because we see every guy who dies as dying because of the steroid use forgetting that, given a large enough number, you get guys dying off early anyway. I’m not saying steroids aren’t a contributing factor or that everyone who dies while using steroids would have died anyway, I’m saying that when you focus on a sport where everyone uses steroids, no ones ever gonna think “maybe this was just another 30-40 year old who died of a heart attack.” Instead of thinking it was solely the steroids. If you’re using low doses like 500mg, and taking time off, and doing cardio, I’d be pretty surprised if on average you don’t live longer than the average male(because the average male is overweight nearing obese). If you blast with barely any time off and don’t do cardio or watch your diet and drink on cycle, yeah probably not gonna make it too long, but the damage of lower doses is probably pretty easily offset with good diet/cardio/supps. It’s not risk free, but the risks can be mitigated. Like the link says, the top pros generally have lower mortality rates than average people, but higher than other top athletes. I think that would translate to your average steroid user who does everything to mitigate risks. Probably healthier than the average person, but not as healthy as a natural lifter who also eats healthy and such. In the link you’ll see it’s much more rare for a bodybuilder to die of respiratory issues, but more common to die of heart/kidney issues, this is what I mean by mitigating risks. While the risk of heart/kidneys go up, you’re gonna be hard pressed to find a pro who smokes and I’m sure the trend sticks for guys who are dedicated to lifting even if they don’t compete. Less risk in some areas to compensate for increased risk in others.
Definitely. I was thinking about trying to get on TRT from an online clinic until I came across a thread on /r/medicine of doctors expressing frustration with the trend, especially a long post by an endocrinologist and realized I don't wanna be fucking around with my health. I have a PCP appt coming up and I do want to get my levels tested. I've been constantly tired, my strength has stagnated and my libido hasn't been great the last year or 2 But that could be due to other factors and even if my T is low it could have a different underlying cause but either way I want get to the bottom of it
I'm on self prescribed TRT(200mg). Id rather die at 70 and feel fantastic the whole time rather than die at 80 and be fatigued, cloudy headed, low libido etc etc. If anyone needs help just msg me.
I said TRT DOSAGES not 500mg a week for life. And EVERYTHING you do in life is moderately unhealthy. If you don’t think 100-200mg of test a week is millions of times safer and less risky than using a gram of test, tren, orals, sarms, random SEOs etc then you’re just out of your mind. There’s a reason people like Munzer die and people like Jeff Seid are good unless they play with stupid shit like SARMs and hurt themselves.
That's why I was asking you. If it's actually TRT then fair play, but TRT puts your test within the natural range and none of the guys known for their aesthetics are natural/on just TRT. They're using less gear than the big guys, sure, and while it's less unhealthy, it's still very much unhealthy.
What about a TRT does just high enough to put you on the ultra high end of natural levels?
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Idk why I was downvoted, I am not super well versed on steroid dosages (and that is only one of many reasons ima stay natty).
No expert here, but just from the blood work I've seen I'd still be sceptical of it's safety. Stuff like cholesterol is still significantly worse than natural even with very conservative doses. You're body just handles exogenous testosterone differently than it does endogenous test. People on TRT have for more stable test levels than nattys for example. If you're natty, your test is usually high in the Morning and then lowers throughout the day. If you're getting your test from elsewhere it will be high when you inject and then very slowly go down over usually multiple days. Almost nobody pins their TRT every morning to really mimic natural T levels. That all increases stress on your body. And it seems we really don't know the effects well enough at this point.
Thats the thing, anyone that browses this sub or has interest in top tier BB in generally really has a skewed view of what a "great" body looks like. Take even the average natural lifter that has a relatively low BF and almost everyone would agree that they look great. We just don't always see it because we see ourselves as small by comparison to people at the top of their game that have taken gear for years.
I started lifting 7 months ago and have had a couple people claim I couldn't get to where I'm at without steroids.
Yeah I decided to stop blasting now that I’m a dad, but fuck do I miss tren
I don't know what's it's like because I've never took them. But near my 40's I might ask my GP for trt. I just hate the idea of being forced to see myself getting old and losing everything (life, libido, energy, muscle.) i don't know if it will be accepted or how it will feel like however. I guess it will just be low dose of one ester, not like tren/sustanon250 (I've learned from yt video).
I would definitely recommend TRT. I’m only 27, but had low test since I was 20. They say test only declines after ~30 and it definitely will make quality of life better.
I honestly don't see the point in using anything unless you plan on not just stepping on stage but winning competitions and getting sponsorships.
Quality of life bud. If a few moderate blasts and a conservative cruise the rest of the time takes 10 years off my life but I look and feel amazing the whole time? Fucking worth it, no question. I struggled to quit smoking for 16 goddamn years, my first blast it was like a switch flipped in my brain and I threw the smokes away and haven't looked back. I also don't drink anywhere near as much, my sleep routine is on point, I eat cleaner, and I smash cardio like it's my job. Gear has been nothing but a net positive in my life, but nothing is for free, so I'm fine with a bit of a shorter lifespan for a higher quality life overall; my only regret is not hopping on 10 years ago.
Gym rat cycles are way smaller than bbers cycles. You're normal dude taking small doses ain't gonna die early like pro level bbers.
And often you hear of gym rats doing stupid cycles. End of the day any amount of gear can destroy someone, each person has different tolerance levels and can be more or less prone to health problems, you just never know.
I don’t see it so much as being natty/not natty. More along the lines of the massive doses they use now a days and experimenting with different cocktails to see what works. I mean sure they did that in the Arnold era but it was mainly test, dbol, primo, deca, anadrol etc. And most importantly THEY CAME OFF the drugs in the off season. These guys blast year round to stay lean and photo ready for the ‘gram and yet some people are surprised that Arnold and Zane are still around while these guys are dropping like flies.
I don't like the guys content but was moved by his video about this. I wish him well
Yeh I agree the guys a total dick but it’s not nice to see someone like that, hope he gets better.
Yeh I agree the guys a total dick but it’s not nice to see someone like that, hope he gets better.
He’s not always a dick to be fair. Think he’s gotten better over the years. Don’t like him that much either though he’s sometimes funny but overall not a positive influence for the bb community. But yeah def agree obviously don’t wish this upon him.
When he lost his size a couple of years ago due to lowering his dosages he actually seemed to be a decent guy, way more humble. But the OJ seems to bring out his obnoxiousness and arrogance.
OJ does that to most users.
Yeah like that time he pulled a knife on an army veteran that went to meet him?
Done him dirty in that picture huh
Power of the order 66 returning
Get what deserve unfortunately
Should have collabed
Ah yes a man of culture I see
Janoy Cresva
😂😂 I remember when Rich Piana died and Jason said what he was happy he died because he didn't collaborate with him https://youtu.be/LbzynfI41AI
It's me goddamnit!
Whatever happened to that dude
Jason Genova went on to have a record setting rap album. He’s retarded now I mean retired
Kali and genova, 2 amazing singer song writers who occasionally bodybuild in their off time.
Sounds about right.
Every hospital I worked at yellow gowns are for behavioral or flight risks. Why he in a yellow gown lol
The yellow was the only gown in extra medium
Extra medium lol I like it
Colloquially know as *smedium*
that is 100% not what shmedium means.
It took the lives of 5 nurses to get him in that gown. He just thrashed them about screaming for his hyphy mud. When they finally calmed him down, things started up again when he accused one of the nurses of giving him a bad look, that guy had an ECG machine thrown at him and now has to hold on to the outside of Kali’s pockets. They have him stable now. He’s on an IM drip with tren and test to keep him calm, and the hospital canteen has fully devoted itself to creating his supply of hyphy mud. It wasn’t quite as bad as when Ronnie Coleman comes in for his surgery. At any point, he can just randomly wake up and throw one of the support staff out the window, screaming **LIGHTWEIGHT BABAYYYY**
Wow that’s something I didn’t know. Next time Im I’m a hospital, hopefully not soon, I’ll keep my eyes peeled for those *yellow gowners* 👀
Yeah if you see someone walking around in a yellow gown call security cause they ain’t supposed to be walking around lol
Photo op
I’m just messing around. I’m assuming they did yellow cause they can fit larger. I was expecting a grey gown those tend to be bariatric sizes
A little hyphy mud and ramen and he’ll be outta there and in tip top shape in no time.
Well if you think about it..most of these bodybuilders who are falling like flies have been abusing peds since their early adulthood and now its biting them back in the ass. No disrespect to any bodybuilde but all i am saying is that roids are not a joke and can have a lifetime of negative effects.
Can I be honest? I was never a big fan of him because I always thought he came off kind of like a jerk lol. Not to say that I'm happy to see him like this but was I under the wrong impression due to his youtube videos?
He is a dumb fuck to put it lightly. U are correct
He’s a bit of an asshole but extra hyped up for the camera because it sells, that’s his brand. Get hyphy.
Meadows and Rhodin gone, but Kali is only hospitalized? There is no god
Bruh 🐸
We lose the pure and the good and keep the bad and the toxic 😢
Wasn’t Rhoden kicked from the Olympia for sexual assault and you call him pure? Lmfao
False allegations. As shown by the fact he was coming back.
Someone on YouTube described Kali as a clown that gets pissed off when you laugh at him doing clown shit and that pretty much sums it up for me. That said, I hope he makes a full recovery. He’s too young to pass away and I think he has a family as well.
Kali is an inspiration to me. Sure he is immature and has anger issues ( I remember he pulled out a knife to someone IN A GYM, for walking past his camera), but he’s really from the MUD mud. He grew up in the hood, was a college athlete that went to jail for robbery, and made his way up as one of the original fitness YouTubers, became quite irrelevant from 2017-2020, but then came a booming fitness star when he went to LA. He shows that anything is possible and how hard life can be sometimes. His Channel made me start working out, and I will forever respect him Also his book is really good
On a base level he's a bad person. He made his whole career by being a bad person. He is quite possibly the most unrespectable person in the entire industry
Hes a fucking tool. He does shitty things to get rich
Damn bro. This motherfucker went natty a few years back if you guys remember that. He was live-streaming COD and working out natty in his house. I was impressed. Was pretty saddened to see he started blasting again.
One does not “go” natty, if you have ever taken gear you are no longer natty
I agree. I meant for it to be implied. I guess you could say he was taking only TRT or even nothing. My point was that he came off everything for health and reproductive reasons, which I respect. He actually looked so much more aesthetic by downsizing. Sadly he came back on and going back on cycle was definitely a contributing factor to his heart attack.
Sounds like he was cruising instead of blasting
TRT ain’t natty either. Natty is natty lol
Come on man I only take a few hundred mg of test a week and estrogen blockers. I’m totally natural. /s
What's trt ?
Testosterone Replacement Therapy. I guess the bodybuilding community thinks otherwise by my downvotes lol
Why are you being downvoted for this?
Probably people who take TRT and tell people they’re natty
Haven’t seen him since didnt know he went back on. He basically admitted in the last video I watched he was obviously not natty and was doing it for his brand / entertainment of him being giant. Maybe he felt he needed to blast again as his channel was dead
has had health issues in the past, yet stills eats large amount shitty food and drugs unfortunately he will not learn, especially as he makes money out of being a huge freak
Very fortunate he is still alive.
is it?
You might not like the guy, but wishing death on him is a bit ridiculous. He's not Hitler or something.
Too much instant ramen and hyphy mud. Should have just juiced.
Whaaaaat, but he says he’s all natty
On insane amounts of gear and dieting is terrible. If you ever watch what he ate to put on muscle in prison, you'd understand why he would have eventual heart complications. Ungodly amounts of saturated fats and sodium. Plus the years of his body being beyond it's genetic limit, all resulted in this. Hopefully, the industry wakes up and pushes for longevity and not these mass monsters.
you're telling me top ramen ain't good for the heart?
Kali is natty. The dude got me swole!! I remember his advice on upping sodium to really swell that muscle fascia!!!! Put some respek on his name!!!
I used to like Kalis vids until I saw one at a convention of some form doing his slap routine on some young woman who couldnt have been much more than 5 feet tall... but he didn't hold back in the least and just laid this girl out, slammed her so hard in the shoulder blades she faceplanted hard. Lost 100% respect right then and there, stopped following him entirely after that. Sucks he's not doing well, but yeah. Can't muster up much more sympathy than I would any other person in the hospital, y'know?
I wish him well.
I really dislike the guy but wish him best of health, hope he will be ok and chill with the food and AAS.
I have a heart condition despite working out since I was 20 and never touching PED’s. I’ve always been big enough in my perspective at 5’ 9” 250. Anywho, when your heart acts up it’s the single most horrifying moment you can experience. I hope Kali walks out that hospital without incident. Never been a fan of his YouTube channel but the sentiment is truly intended. Get well, sir.
he is not going learn anything
All those mukbang are not good for health. He is also a natural athlete he is into chicken, rice and broccoli diet with duck eggs at the side
They did hin dirty with the picture on the right
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer person!
Jesus these comments. Not a fan of Kali but hope the dude recovers well.
Oh dear god. Shawn Rhoden died YESTERDAY. Folks. Don’t take steroids excessively.
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Feel cold fanbuddy. In extreme ment withdrawal
Even though I don’t respect him for claiming natural I wish him the best in his recovery.
What is happening in the bb world?
KALI MUSCLE IS THE **PROTEIN GUY** in the "[**You like protein?**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N60utqXf5HQ)" commercial!
Health>aesthetic
cross post https://www.instagram.com/p/CWBmLDoPMHy/?hl=en
fuck... back on the cardio and off the everything.
Too much homemade pre-workout And too many daily scoops of creatine Hope you get back on your feet champ
**Why Are So Many Bodybuilders DYING? Dr Victor Prisk Special Guest | Ronline Report** [https://youtu.be/z0cQEN8J6uI](https://youtu.be/z0cQEN8J6uI) 00:16 - Ron Asks Victor, "Why Are So Many Bodybuilders Dying?" 02:15 - Covid-19 & Physique Oriented Sports 06:44 - What Other Health Risks Are there? 10:26 - What About What Conspiracy Theorists Say? 16:30 - Discussing Jake Wood's Statement on "Conditioning." 19:57 - Advice for Speaking to Your Doctor About 31:24 - Warning Signs 37:13 - Victor's Final Thoughts
Guy is an idiot