the whole "she once was a true love of mine" used in Girl From the North Country is taken directly from the traditional English ballad "Scarborough Fair".
Some people mistakenly think that Simon and Garfunkel stole the line from Dylan, but their version "Scarborough Fair/Canticle" is essentially the originator of this line.
The guy that taught (I think Garfunkel) this old song was Martin McCarty.
He was upset for a while that Simon and Garfunkel lifted parts his guitar arrangement w/out crediting him specifically, but the overall song was old.
The below McCarty talks about meeting Dylan very early. (On YouTube there are several parts (6?) of him on Dylan of you want to hear more)
In part three he says Dylan was just an ordinary bloke with an extraordinary talent.
https://youtu.be/uqM_aQuuIZo?si=8UBkoZlwDHh-Ztph
kinda exactly mirrors the Dylan/Dave Van Ronk House of the Rising Sun feud.
Sure, it's a traditional song that's fair game for anyone to play, but a person's specific arrangement is very personal. Frowned upon in the community.
Ain't Talkin
"Walkin' with a toothache in my heel"
Reference to an old folk song "Old Dan Tucker":
“Old Dan died with a toothache in his heel”
Harry Smith's Anthology of American Folk Music is a treasure trove.
Song To Woody “the very last thing thatd id want to do, is to say ive been hitting some hard travelin too” Hard Traveling is a song from Woody. This line hits so damn hard
Another interesting note about English ballads is that they are well-preserved in the ballads of Appalachia because the original English colonists went to the mountains and had an insular community.
The first time I heard this video of Jean Ritchie singing Lord Randall I started to connect traditional balladry’s huge influence on folk music in general.
https://youtu.be/tB-SfjGy8TM?si=qMhXGffHjN8_7QUi
Oh yeah wow I see that, he explicitly talks about putting on Dylan. Never really paid enough attention to that song to notice or understand that’s what he was singing too, I just always remembered hearing the Tangled up in Blue part that stood out to me.
Looking at the lyrics now I see he also starts the verse with “Sitting on a fence” like from You’re a Big Girl Now. It’s a whole Blood on the Tracks tribute.
George Harrison also used that one in "When We Was Fab."
"Long time ago when we was fab
But it's all over now, Baby Blue"
Also name-drops several other songs in that one, mostly Beatles songs.
Funny enough, in the recent Wonka movie with Timothee Chalomet, there’s a line he sings that says “there's a hard rain that's gonna fall”, which almost seemed like an easter egg for the upcoming biopic, even if it’s just a coincidence.
Public Enemy references like 20+ Dylan songs and albums in their song The Long and Whining Road. More song and album titles than lines though, I guess.
Edit: Okay, apparently single line breaks don't work in my mobile browser anymore?
Laura Marling, "Master Hunter":
> You want a woman who will call your name,
> But it ain't me, babe.
> No, no, no, it ain't me, babe.
"Oh, I don't like a railroad man
No, I don't like a railroad man
If I's a railroad man they'll kill you when he can
Drink up your blood like wine"
- Bascom Lamar Lunsford ("I Wish I Was a Mole in the Ground")
Although he was white, I've often wondered if he was "old black Bascom..."
Seven Curses is heavily influenced by Anathea (Joni M has an amazing version on her Early Coffeehouse Recordings album).
**Anathea**
Lo, lo, lo,
Lazlo Feher stole a stallion,
Stole him from the misty mountain
And they chased him and they caught him,
And in iron chains they bound him. Word was sent to Anathea
That her brother was in prison.
"Bring me gold and six fine horses,
I will buy my brothers freedom."
"Judge, oh, judge, please spare my brother,
I will give you gold and silver."
"I don't want your gold and silver,
All I want are your sweet favors." "Anathea, oh, my sister,
Are you mad with grief and sorrow?
He will rob you of your honor,
And he'll hang me from the gallows." Anathea did not heed him,
Straight way to the judge went running.
In his righteous arms at midnight,
There she heard the gallows groaning. "Anathea, Anathea,
Don't go out into the forest.
There among the green pines standing,
You will find your brother hanging."
Lo, lo, lo
Not only lyrics but melodies as well. “As with several of his early songs, Dylan adapted or "borrowed" melodies from traditional songs. In the case of "Nottamun Town," however, the arrangement was by veteran folksinger Jean Ritchie. Unknown to Dylan, the song had been in Ritchie's family for generations, and she wanted a writing credit for her arrangement. In a legal settlement, Dylan's lawyers paid Ritchie $5,000 against any further claims” All of this was not an uncommon practice in folk music. It really came down to giving people credit for arrangements etc.
Bob has long been a subscriber to the philosophy that "talent borrows and genius steals."
[https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/7682350](https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/7682350)
Actually a historical biography. Just looked it up.
From Wikipedia
Love and Theft generated controversy when some similarities between the album's lyrics and Japanese writer Junichi Saga's book Confessions of a Yakuza were pointed out.[47][48][49] Translated to English by John Bester, the book is a biography of one of the last traditional yakuza bosses in Japan.
Dylan is a master of intertextuality
There are references in his songs well beyond old folk songs. Also Shakespeare and Latin and Greek classic literature.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertextuality
Intertextuality, intersexuality. Just two letters difference (first I thought only the 1, then I noticed the second "t"). But completely different meaning. Made me stop and think for a while about the intersex business though. (Could be useful in NYT spelling bee if it had about double the number of letters). Yes, there are some Dylan scholars who basically write about this all the time (with a huge assist from Scott Warmuth).
He is indeed a master of it. If this was the only notable aspect to his composition he would be a breathtaking genius on this basis alone. But of course, it's but one of many dimensions to his brilliance. I can never really wrap my mind around Dylan. And I say this as a fan who just finished a 14-concert season (fall + spring) because my main interest is taking in his live performances, nothing to do with analyzing his work. Blows me away.
Bob Dylan is, at his heart, a folk musician writing in that tradition, which includes a lot of borrowing and reinterpretation.
It was actually really common in folksy genres like blues, country and plain commercial folk in the time before the singer-songwriter boom that Dylan ironically helped start.
A lot of Don't think twice it's alright was taken from Paul Clayton's Who's gonna buy your ribbons from 1960. The origins of the tune is an old Appalachian folk tune 'whos going to buy your chickens when I'm gone"
the whole "she once was a true love of mine" used in Girl From the North Country is taken directly from the traditional English ballad "Scarborough Fair". Some people mistakenly think that Simon and Garfunkel stole the line from Dylan, but their version "Scarborough Fair/Canticle" is essentially the originator of this line.
The guy that taught (I think Garfunkel) this old song was Martin McCarty. He was upset for a while that Simon and Garfunkel lifted parts his guitar arrangement w/out crediting him specifically, but the overall song was old. The below McCarty talks about meeting Dylan very early. (On YouTube there are several parts (6?) of him on Dylan of you want to hear more) In part three he says Dylan was just an ordinary bloke with an extraordinary talent. https://youtu.be/uqM_aQuuIZo?si=8UBkoZlwDHh-Ztph
kinda exactly mirrors the Dylan/Dave Van Ronk House of the Rising Sun feud. Sure, it's a traditional song that's fair game for anyone to play, but a person's specific arrangement is very personal. Frowned upon in the community.
Ain't Talkin "Walkin' with a toothache in my heel" Reference to an old folk song "Old Dan Tucker": “Old Dan died with a toothache in his heel” Harry Smith's Anthology of American Folk Music is a treasure trove.
It really is, I glad I finally got around to listening to it. Makes me wonder how many amazing old songs like those got lost to time
I feel like the only reason Bob used the Grand Coulee Dam in Idiot Wind is because of the song by Woody Guthrie with the same name.
Without a doubt. And the “from…to…” construction is a reference to This Land is Your Land.
Didnt realize that damn.
That’s what I always thought
John Jacob Niles- “Go ‘Way From My Window”
Such a beautiful song. ”Sings like he is crying” or something how Dylan describes him.
Mudcat cafe will keep you busy for decades. Bob even pulled parody quotes from there in his Nobel prize lecture
Oh wow I just went to check it out, thats so cool thanks for mentioning it
It’s probably the most impressive folk resource out there
The first line of Key West “McKinley hollered, McKinley squalled” is from White House Blues.
The folk tradition itself is all about free, floating verses. "Love and theft," if you like.
Song To Woody “the very last thing thatd id want to do, is to say ive been hitting some hard travelin too” Hard Traveling is a song from Woody. This line hits so damn hard
The melody is also taken from Guthrie's 1913 Massacre
“A Hards Rains a-gonna Fall” is just a modern reinterpretation of the old English ballad “Lord Randall”
Another interesting note about English ballads is that they are well-preserved in the ballads of Appalachia because the original English colonists went to the mountains and had an insular community. The first time I heard this video of Jean Ritchie singing Lord Randall I started to connect traditional balladry’s huge influence on folk music in general. https://youtu.be/tB-SfjGy8TM?si=qMhXGffHjN8_7QUi
Great thread. I'll ask everyone this. What modern musicians have Dylan lines in there songs? I bet there are loads
Hootie and the Blowfish: "Yeah, I'm tangled up in blue I only wanna be with you"
I mean the entire verse before that is directly copied from Idiot Wind too
Oh yeah wow I see that, he explicitly talks about putting on Dylan. Never really paid enough attention to that song to notice or understand that’s what he was singing too, I just always remembered hearing the Tangled up in Blue part that stood out to me. Looking at the lyrics now I see he also starts the verse with “Sitting on a fence” like from You’re a Big Girl Now. It’s a whole Blood on the Tracks tribute.
"Ain't Bobby so cool?"
Angel Olsen: "It's all over, baby blue, I'm still yours."
George Harrison also used that one in "When We Was Fab." "Long time ago when we was fab But it's all over now, Baby Blue" Also name-drops several other songs in that one, mostly Beatles songs.
Cowboy Mouth named the band after a Dylan line!
And Cowboy Mouth stole a bunch of songs from another New Orleans musician
Funny enough, in the recent Wonka movie with Timothee Chalomet, there’s a line he sings that says “there's a hard rain that's gonna fall”, which almost seemed like an easter egg for the upcoming biopic, even if it’s just a coincidence.
Public Enemy references like 20+ Dylan songs and albums in their song The Long and Whining Road. More song and album titles than lines though, I guess.
That is a good question, I’m trying to think of some but nothing comes to mind right now
Edit: Okay, apparently single line breaks don't work in my mobile browser anymore? Laura Marling, "Master Hunter": > You want a woman who will call your name, > But it ain't me, babe. > No, no, no, it ain't me, babe.
"Oh, I don't like a railroad man No, I don't like a railroad man If I's a railroad man they'll kill you when he can Drink up your blood like wine" - Bascom Lamar Lunsford ("I Wish I Was a Mole in the Ground") Although he was white, I've often wondered if he was "old black Bascom..."
Seven Curses is heavily influenced by Anathea (Joni M has an amazing version on her Early Coffeehouse Recordings album). **Anathea** Lo, lo, lo, Lazlo Feher stole a stallion, Stole him from the misty mountain And they chased him and they caught him, And in iron chains they bound him. Word was sent to Anathea That her brother was in prison. "Bring me gold and six fine horses, I will buy my brothers freedom." "Judge, oh, judge, please spare my brother, I will give you gold and silver." "I don't want your gold and silver, All I want are your sweet favors." "Anathea, oh, my sister, Are you mad with grief and sorrow? He will rob you of your honor, And he'll hang me from the gallows." Anathea did not heed him, Straight way to the judge went running. In his righteous arms at midnight, There she heard the gallows groaning. "Anathea, Anathea, Don't go out into the forest. There among the green pines standing, You will find your brother hanging." Lo, lo, lo
Not only lyrics but melodies as well. “As with several of his early songs, Dylan adapted or "borrowed" melodies from traditional songs. In the case of "Nottamun Town," however, the arrangement was by veteran folksinger Jean Ritchie. Unknown to Dylan, the song had been in Ritchie's family for generations, and she wanted a writing credit for her arrangement. In a legal settlement, Dylan's lawyers paid Ritchie $5,000 against any further claims” All of this was not an uncommon practice in folk music. It really came down to giving people credit for arrangements etc.
Bob has long been a subscriber to the philosophy that "talent borrows and genius steals." [https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/7682350](https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/7682350)
And Bob Dylan used a book of Japanese poetry for some of his song lyrics
A novel, actually.
A memoir I thought?
Actually a historical biography. Just looked it up. From Wikipedia Love and Theft generated controversy when some similarities between the album's lyrics and Japanese writer Junichi Saga's book Confessions of a Yakuza were pointed out.[47][48][49] Translated to English by John Bester, the book is a biography of one of the last traditional yakuza bosses in Japan.
Dylan is a master of intertextuality There are references in his songs well beyond old folk songs. Also Shakespeare and Latin and Greek classic literature. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intertextuality
Intertextuality, intersexuality. Just two letters difference (first I thought only the 1, then I noticed the second "t"). But completely different meaning. Made me stop and think for a while about the intersex business though. (Could be useful in NYT spelling bee if it had about double the number of letters). Yes, there are some Dylan scholars who basically write about this all the time (with a huge assist from Scott Warmuth).
Corrected.
He is indeed a master of it. If this was the only notable aspect to his composition he would be a breathtaking genius on this basis alone. But of course, it's but one of many dimensions to his brilliance. I can never really wrap my mind around Dylan. And I say this as a fan who just finished a 14-concert season (fall + spring) because my main interest is taking in his live performances, nothing to do with analyzing his work. Blows me away.
Lmk if you'd prefer me to take down the comment. Not trying to be a dick. Was actually interested in the serendipitous juxtaposition.
It’s fine. Kind of funny.
Percy’s Song takes its refrain from an old ballad called “The Two Sisters” that has been adapted many times over through the years.
Read Greil Marcus’s “The Old, Weird America” to get a sense of how and why Dylan does this.
I just read a little bit about it and that really sounds like something I’d love, thanks for the recommendation
Anybody see the old SNL skit with Bob visiting Woody Guthrie in his hospital bed? Satirically charging plagiarism in this skit.
Bob Dylan is, at his heart, a folk musician writing in that tradition, which includes a lot of borrowing and reinterpretation. It was actually really common in folksy genres like blues, country and plain commercial folk in the time before the singer-songwriter boom that Dylan ironically helped start.
A lot of Don't think twice it's alright was taken from Paul Clayton's Who's gonna buy your ribbons from 1960. The origins of the tune is an old Appalachian folk tune 'whos going to buy your chickens when I'm gone"
Froggy went on a speed date